My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 81 - Weapon Bush

Episode Date: August 10, 2017

On this week’s My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover Peter Kürten, The Vampire of Düsseldorf, and the case of Jeffrey MacDonald. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business. Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with

authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interac.ca slash for business. Terms and conditions apply. You've never laughed so quickly yet. the smile you just gave me was like karen i know you're losing your mind please be here with me now guys i just hello welcome to my favorite murder hi uh that's karen that's george hi uh my dogs just got out. As I was driving over here, I got a call from my God-blessed neighbor, Carolyn, who is the one who people go to because she knows everybody in the neighborhood. She makes cookies. I think so.

She's the best neighbor. And my dogs already got out once this week. And so when I saw her name come up on my phone, I was like, no, God. And it was her. Frank and George, bad dogs. Yeah, it's George. So she's, there's the front gate. It locks, but kind of not really.

And I think she's pushing on it. And so I had just left the house to come over here to record. Tell everyone your address and where the gate is. And everyone can just go check it every once in a while as a favor yeah i think it would be nice uh it's the worst feeling when a your dogs are out b uh you they don't have name tags on because somehow the name tags have fallen off over the years and i've never replaced them and c they've already gotten out once this week and alerted the the entire neighborhood was in action. And they were out all day because I was at work.

You walked in to the apartment with like a perfectly drop of tear on your glasses. Like it had been raining. On the inside of your glasses, there was like this perfect tear drop. It's always raining inside of me. It was just like this huge you should have seen like you know how i can be when i got out of this car a ballet dancer the best sometimes she just does ballet so graceful so ladylike i got out of my car and there was a man sitting on his front porch and i walked up and he didn't say anything to me and I didn't say anything to him.

And then finally I went, do you have the dogs? And he was like, yeah. And he goes, is everything okay? And I go, I guess not. And then I just started bawling in front of a man I don't know. Crying in front of strangers is the most vulnerable you can be and you hope they react well. You're like, oh, honey, it's okay. He was shocked. i would say he was

shocked i meant later was he like how dad was he like what level of he was dad but i think he had a little bit of the get your shit together these dogs were wandering in the street which i that's the burn of it is that i 100 agree him. The fact that it's happened several times is like unforgivable and the idea that I'm just fucking driving around while my dogs are like just in the street just Milo and Otis thing the fuck

out of it. I'm very upsetting. So anyway, that's how I that's the energy I'm bringing tonight. I think that's why I smiled at you like that. Yes. I was like, how are you going to do this? Such kindness. Because it's been 10 minutes since you got here. It's not like we had to sit down and we all talked and had tea.

No one had tea or biscuits. No, I came in hot. With tears, tears. Hot tears. Hot tears on the inside of the glasses. Not my style. And now Georgia's trying to hold my energy with me. I've hugged you twice. Yes. And that's like the most I've ever hugged anyone in my life. And now Georgia's trying to hold my energy with me. I've hugged you twice.

Yes. And that's like the most I've ever hugged anyone in my life. It was really nice. I really appreciate it. Genuinely. You're welcome. No, I'm kidding. We have burgers being delivered.

We're going to have to break for burgers at some point. My God. And then I look at my phone. Carolyn, I actually want to leave my phone up just in case. I'm leaving mine up right now only because of burgers. Otherwise, it stresses me out so much. Okay. I'm going to scream burgers.

You're going to hear a pause. You're not going to hear a pause. You're going to hear nothing because this is a fucking professional podcast. Yeah, that's right. Steven's going to cut it out. You know how professional he is? Uncle Joey style. How?

Well, now we're on the professional podcast network. Mid-roll. Hey, good segue. Nice one. Did you type that up this morningroll. Hey, good segue. Nice one. Did you type that up this morning? I typed the shit out of that one. Guys, it's so exciting. We are now on mid-roll.

The mid-roll podcast network. Very big deal. Very fancy deal. We are very honored and excited to be moving on up to the east side. Yeah. And on mid-roll. But not without our fucking, you know, when you go, and then you point to the sky like, what's up, God?

This is nice to you. You peace out to God? Well, to Pharaoh. You peace up to God? You peace up to God. You bless it all the way up? And you say, thank you, Pharaoh Laudio. Thank you, Pharaoh Laudio.

How long were you guys on there? God, I've been with them since they started, I think. Yeah. Feral Audio gave us our huge kickoff. Thank you so much to Jason Smith. Thank you so much to Dustin. You guys were great. And we will miss you dearly.

And we'll support the fuck out. Shit out of you. Always. There's so many good podcasts on there. You just change it from fuck to shit. Fucking shit out of you? No, I said the fucking shit out of you. Oh, it many good podcasts on there You just change it from fuck to shit Fucking shit out of you? No I said the fucking shit out of you What did I say?

It sounded like you stopped yourself from saying We'll support the fuck out of you And said we'll support the shit out of you I think I said we'll support the fuck and shit out of you That's a lot of support you guys Listen Yeah we're going to be on every podcast that they do All the time anyway

Because that's kind of how podcasts work They're only allowed to have us as That they do All the time anyway Because that's kind of How podcasts work They're only allowed To have us as guests On all of their podcasts Yeah that's right But yeah man So that's that news

No one cares about Stuff like that We haven't said in a while But like We didn't know This would be a thing And we still don't know This is a thing

This podcast It's a large adjustment We're doing our best We're doing our best Not to think about it right because we just love it uh and we're just trying to do it we're just trying uh we're doing our best looking listened looking listened looking i'm just listen mashing words up it's time um and you got anything uh elvis is healthy good let's get it. Let's get. We've missed a couple of weeks of this.

So let's get one at the top. Elvis. Want a cookie? Whoa. That's how healthy he is. That was like Tom Jones level vocal pronounced. Hi, friend. And now to ask the other question, because I can't get up.

Very healthy. Steven, will you give Elvis a cookie? Want a cookie? Yeah. I want it, cookie boy. He's like, hell yeah. So basically he had the flu. He had the flu.

He had the plague that Dottie the kitten brought. Yeah. She's adorable. She's here. Mimi's here. Everyone's here. Oh, good. Life's back to normal.

Nice. I do have something. Okay. Okay. So, God, it feels like it's been so long. Yeah. The last time That we podcast Remember I was like

He had a brain hemorrhage And no bleeding Or something Yes We were talking about Like what's a Is a brain hemorrhage this Or is a brain hemorrhage

We were talking about Aneurysms We're going into things That we've heard of But don't know about And we were We were speculating Yeah that's all we do

Well it turns out That our friend Kara Klink Yes Hilarious comedian her brother is a brain surgeon what of some sort why she never told me about that want me to find out let's see um she texted me and said um my brother is a neurologist and he said I'm listening to my favorite murder and they're asking doctors who are listening to weigh in on brain hemorrhage get me georgia's direct number and i met him and he's like this

sweet normal kid like at a comedy party you're like all these fucking comedians and he's just like hey i'm a brain doctor oh my god hello so cute pull him aside i know somebody okay so he i was like yes i need it to know everything. So, his name is Colin. Hi, Georgia, this is Colin, Kara's brother. Here's my little blurb on cerebral hemorrhage. Okay. As you do.

The good news is neither of you was wrong. Generally speaking, hemorrhage just means bleeding usually profusely but not always for example even a small amount of blood in the brain can be disastrous and it's still called a hemorrhage so cerebral hemorrhage is just a general term for bleeding in the brain lots of different things can cause cerebral hemorrhage including trauma or aneurysms as karen pointed out oh yeah he's being like so difficult karen was right so are. He's like a grammar school teacher. Encouraging us to learn. To just keep talking out of school.

Just to not give up. Cerebral hemorrhage can also lead to stroke, as you've alluded. He's like, Karen was right, Georgia. And here were you two. Also, a quick clarification about aneurysms. Since it came up, an aneurysm is just a bulging of an artery due to weakness in the artery wall. Plenty of people walk around with aneurysms every day. Can you tell that I'm not practicing speaking smart words?

Aneurysm is a hard word to say. All of my mouth hurts right now. And also, the concept that you just introduced is very difficult. I don't even want to talk about that. We're all walking. That's like the shingles virus is already inside you. I don't even want to talk about that. We're all walking. That's like the shingles virus is already inside you. I don't want to know. The shingles virus is calling from inside that body.

The shingles virus is sneaking up on you with a big knife. But you turn around or you close the medicine cabinet mirror and it's gone. But then it's on your back. And it's hiding. I don't know. They only become hemorrhages when they rupture and bleed into the surrounding tissue. Okay. So I said, this is such great info.

Thank you. I'll read it for corrections corner next week. My pleasure. Blah, blah, blah. Also apologies. Send my apologies to Steven. I ran outside to him. I ran into him outside Kara's apartment when I was in LA last month and accosted him like,

excuse me, are you Steven Ray Morris? Big fan. And I wrote, ha, he loves that shit. Oh, I loved it. Yes. Made my day. last month and accosted him like excuse me are you stephen ray morris big fan and i wrote ha he loves that shit oh i loved it yeah made my day big fan of stephen's editing so um nice so yeah that was because i did the um pizza bomber murder and remember the woman who they thought killed her ex-boyfriend had sent him he had an aneurysm but i was like you can't get an aneurysm unless someone hits you i don't know i made some shit up right right right well we have these like ideas it's all from forensic files it's all just sitting in our brain from like a combination of forensic files and law and order where you're like oh i know this let me take this let me take this because i've i've episode of Forensic Files and put them into one into my brain.

So I was like this one girl who was dying of an aneurysm who then put a bomb of pizza around the neck of a parrot who then testified in court. So insane. Yeah. That was a really good case. That was a good case. What do you have anything? Just this one aneurysm. You know what I will?

I want to say this. And this is like, I don't want to be a big deal, but I, I, there was an article written on bitch media and it was an article about this podcast being racist. And there's been people who contacted us on social media, I think, feeling nervous about that or defensive. And here's what I'd like to say. About other people calling us. About that article and about that idea. Okay.

And that thing that's kicked up. Or feeling like, you know, I don't like this or I want you guys to know that we like you or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here's what I'd like to say. To know that we like you or whatever. And here's what I'd like to say. We now live in a political climate. Where neo-Nazis.

Are. Feel totally fine. Wielding their ignorance. And violence. In the fucking street. We used to be ashamed of that. We live in a political climate. Where mosques are being blown up. Where black people are getting shot in the street. where people are being deported away from their families.

This is serious. People of color are scared and they're upset and they have a right to be. And if anyone who is a person of color hears something they don't like, we want to hear about it, and we are listening. We won't argue with you on social media, we won't engage it, but we will do the thing that I think is the most important thing for white people to do right now, which is to take their ego out of it, and to take their reactivity out of it. And it's hard to be told you're racist. It's hard to be told that when you think you're so woke or you think you're being an ally for someone to stand up and go, it doesn't work. We don't like this.

So I just want to say we are listening to you and we hear you and we are your allies. Just so they know. Yeah. Just so they know. Yeah. Because I don't want this thing to start up of like anyone needs to fight or that I want to support anyone who's trying to use their voice to fight for equality. It's important, especially now. I agree. Or someone saying like, but they've said these things and they've covered these cases.

So they're not like those. You know, it's not like you do A, B and C and then you're not racist anymore or you're not doing or saying racist things or not even racist. It's not like you do A, B, and C and then you're not racist anymore. Or you're not doing or saying racist things. Or not even racist. It's not even racist. It's things that are incorrect, like, historically. Like, you're not supposed to say, you know, we're learning every, I'm constantly trying to learn what I'm doing that I, even though I think I'm this fucking woke person too, I don't know what I'm doing right. And we do things that we don't realize because this popular this podcast is popular we do not want to propagate the negative media stereotype of people of color we do not want to do that if we do it we want to stop doing it any minority

yes any we i know how fucking hugely privileged i am yeah and actually this thing happened recently to me that kind of hit me over the head even more so, because I've always been like, well, I'm Jewish. So I kind of understand like some kind of minority bullshit thing, right? But it's like, recently, I went to this doctor, he's Jewish with like a very Jewish last name. And he looked at my chart. And he was like, you know, finding out my history. And I was like, well, I'm Jewish, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, he saw my last name. And he was like, like wow you're really lucky that you don't have a jewish sounding last name because you didn't get you know the anti-semitism that people who have jewish last names get and i was like oh god this whole time i've been like well i'm jewish and it's the name hard stark doesn't look jewish right and so i missed this whole

And so I miss this whole level of anti-Semitism. And just because of that, which is like, oh, you just don't know until you are told or you see it what you're not experiencing. And it's hard to understand what you're blind to. It's hard to know what you don't know. And so the key is listening. The key is paying attention. And then you hear this thing, too, of like, it's not other people's jobs to teach us, to teach you and I. Right. We can't be like, well, tell us what we're doing wrong.

That's not their job. And I know it's really frustrating for a lot of people of color to have to or to the LGBTQ community to have the LGBTQ community to have to teach us that's it's our job to learn, not for them to tell us. So we just want those people who might, if you're still listening and you've ever felt othered or in, in any kind of a reactive position like that, because of anything we've said on this podcast, that is the absolute last thing we want to be happening.

Because of anything we've said on this podcast, that is the absolute last thing we want to be happening. The best thing about this podcast is the community that has grown up around true crime and around it. It is the most lovely thing to see in the world. And we want people to be a part of that. We don't want anyone to feel like they're not welcome or they're not adored, that they're not being listened to. And I think a lot of people who have been listening from the beginning know that because we'll always read emails and letters from people who are like here's what you did like even using the term sex workers if you listen from the beginning we didn't say that we said prostitutes right because we didn't know we didn't know as soon as we find out we correct ourselves and admit that not admit we say we did something wrong here's an email from someone who is teaching us i did it

is telling us the correct the correct way to do it because they understand that we want to learn right you know and it's yeah it's it's just a process and it's a flawed process yeah but we i think it's important at this moment in time that we identify ourselves as allies flawed allies that are doing their best because because that's the key i think so uh yeah i think we've been avoiding it for a long time because it feels like the more you even slightly interact the it's you're adding fuel to a fire that you just don't want to be happening knowledge yeah but the truth of it is like everybody feeling really scared in the last couple days because this fucking nuclear war thing well the thing

that made me realize is people of color feel like this every single day fuck yeah every single fucking day i'm so glad you brought this up karen i mean it's it's just we live in a really fucking scary time but there's it's's, I don't know. Let's all, let's all stick together, I guess. Let's the people who support each other. We, we don't have to feel like there's such a huge force of people who are on a certain side and we can identify with each other. And you and I have this really fucking amazing opportunity out of nowhere.

Like we said, we didn't know this was going to be a thing well fuck yeah thank you for bringing that up of course i'm really glad you did you did it very eloquently uh i've been thinking a lot about about it a lot don't don't think a lot uh is there anything else um god i feel like it's been oh uh like it's been a while. Oh, tour dates. God damn it. I really quickly wanted to go over just the dates that have been added and the ones, uh, for people to, to go look at. All right. I'm going to spew some dates at you guys really quickly though. If you just want to go to my favorite murder.com slash live, there's links to, there's a list

of shows and links to the actual tickets. So you're not going to get scalped or anything like that. But so a couple of them added and to check out really soon, September 6th, which is in less than a freaking month. We're going to be in Auckland, New Zealand, Bruce Mason Center. So crazy. So please go get those tickets.

Yeah. Auckland. Hey, what's up? Meet us at Bruce Mason. Please. You know, you go down to Bruceason to go watch all your violin playing and stuff so what they do there i don't know picture i don't know bring me auckland new zealand snacks please because all i want to do in um australia and new zealand is eat like hand pies and stuff and tim tams and tim tams i'm so excited about the food yeah it's gonna's going to be good. We added a second, a fucking third show, Melbourne, Australia.

Third? Badass Motherfuckers, September 10th, which is, again, very soon. We've added a third show at the Comedy Theater because you guys are awesome. And we've added,

oh, I'm sorry, who's playing the Sydney Opera House, Karen, on September 12th? Do you know who's going to be playing? I believe it's you and i i believe you are this is insane right this is my dad actually tried to figure out a way to go

with us he is so excited that we're playing the sydney opera house i don't know why it means so much to him but it really means a lot i think it's because he's gone to sydney because he used to he used to be a purser on princess cruises what's a purser uh the guy that carries your bags oh that's like that's how my parents met and so they you don't know that story fucking kidding my mom was a nurse and my dad was a purser on like the Mattson lines they're and my mom was already engaged and when met, my dad talked about this at actually at her funeral service, which was so sweet. He said the second he saw her, he goes, she was wearing a green sweater. And I knew I'm in trouble.

I know. Isn't that the best? So anyway, how did I not know that? I know it's the best. So he there's a lot of like emotional attachment to Australia and to Sydney. Did I really just make you cry no i think i'm getting my period and my meds have been real screwy lately but that's still the sweetest thing i've ever heard it's kind of the best and also because they tried to go with us but he can't go like they my parents met wherever who gives a shit

they got divorced but like your parents met and he really did follow through they were yeah it's true they were married for almost 50 years that's amazing or four yeah yeah like 45 years her funeral i know it was it was good times i mean that's it was it was no it was a wife it was a life well lived okay yes it really this was she got the man of her dreams and she had a happy marriage and two kids, one who had a pretty good podcast. Wait, your sister has a podcast? One who was shaking children's lives. Your sister has a podcast?

Oh. Oh, happy birthday, by the way. Nice move, Georgia. Laura. God damn it. Did you call her Karen? I called her Sarah. And you know why?

Because the only reason I can remember her name is because you worked with Sarah Silverman. Sarah Silverman's sister's name is Laura. So I always think karen and sarah i know karen and laura oh that's hilarious that weird i can't remember names um shit can we no no no don't edit that out she'll apologize to laura she'll think it's funny as long as you didn't call her karen which is what happens to her all the time and it makes her really mad really because people like family friends will welcome go are you karen the comedian and she'll go no i'm laura the one Happens to her all the time And it makes her really mad Really Because people Like family and friends Will walk up and go Are you Karen

The comedian And she'll go No I'm Laura The one that shapes Children's minds Because she's a teacher Because she's a genius teacher NBD

No big deal Okay those were our Two or three No no no Wait there's a few more That are Oh shit Steven the food's here

Oh god I just hung up on him Shit Steven Can you do me a big favor And go down to the don't cut this steven i'm gonna eat all of it though at the bottom of the stairs with this um can you yeah is this edited okay um but don't stop it keep going bring the key to the gate because sometimes they will lock you out there's a key like on the hook no no no yeah okay just bring the key hook it's good also can i just say in this moment of chaos first of all chaos is a ladder as we all learned on game of thrones last week no spoilers wait do you want um but i said burgers and then I'll You can leave burgers in

Yeah Look at Dottie Burger time Burger time So Sydney Opera House September 12th Coming up And then

Oh Detroit We added a show to you. Oh. Which is so cool because people like. So we're going to be in Detroit September 29th and September 29th. There's an early show and a late show. And then San Diego, we added a show because you're fucking awesome too. September 13th, there's a late show.

And then Anaheim, we're coming to you on the 14th of october second show at the orpheum in madison wisconsin wisconsin nice you guys sold out friday the 20th so we're adding sept uh october the 21st sat Saturday, the next night. Okay. And then Tampa, we have November 3rd for you at the Hard Rock. On the 4th, we have Orlando. And then Fort Lauderdale on the 5th. Come there. That's pretty. There's other shows, too, but those are the ones that are, like,

have tickets, like, a lot Tickets available guys So everything else go look at myfavoritemurderer.com Slash live And more dates to come There are people that tweet a lot Saying naming cities And saying why do you hate us You're going to be so pleasantly surprised

Is all I'm saying These are all 2017 dates that we've announced We can't tell you certain things, but we're going to be able to soon. So just have a little faith, have a little hope. I would say the same thing to the girl that tweeted me and said, you guys didn't release a mini this

week. And then she mentioned something about Unqualified. That we're Unqualified to podcast? Nope. She mentioned something about Anna Faris and I just thought

it was such an odd coincidence because we're going to be on Unqualified with Anna Faris next week. We did a combo hybrid episode. King duo. Trio.

A trio, yeah. Even. We all compare, well, actually a quadro if you include Sam Who is her producer Who's on her podcast What's another one

With Steven Oh shit Sorry Steven was there too He's a 5-0 I mean I was just hanging out The 5-0 Just kind of Touching the leather couches

Just kind of I mean that was a nice house It was really nice We had a good time At Anna's house And we had We got to give people advice that we are also unqualified to give. Anna gave

a fucking her murder, which was awesome. Yes, it was fun. So fucking cool. She's the best. I've honestly always been a fan of hers. Honestly? Anna? I've honestly. The movie Just Friends, if you haven't seen it, with Anna Faris, Ryan Reynolds,

I don't know the name of the lead girl. Because Anna just distracted you so much. But if you haven't seen that movie, it's the best. Anyway, I've loved her since that movie. We're going to be on that. That's going to be this coming week, whatever that is. Good times. Great oldies. Great oldies.

Also, besides Laura's birthday, Vince's birthday is coming up this week. We've got a big birthday week. That's birthday vince's birthday is coming up this week we got a big birthday that's right vince's birthday happy birthday the date the name of and date of his and location of his birthday party yes that's a great there's a reason i'm saying that but i'm not gonna say it because then everyone will actually know it but he's having a joint birthday party with some people and one of the people just puts it up on fucking social media for everyone to know um i know the person yeah the famousest the famousest of them is like cut it but last year nick lachey was at his birthday party oh that's nice i know right um all right should we talk about murder oh yes my neighbor just

texted me and said he's going to fix my fence tomorrow. Hell yes, everybody. Hopefully he doesn't think fix my fence is a wink wink, like break Georgia's legs so she can never get out again. Oh, I'm sorry. That was horrible. Hi, best friend. Look at Mimi come right over. Speaking of Mimi being like, please get me the fuck out of here. This kitten is killing me. You know, it'd be so funny, though. Then she I put her down

in my house and the dogs just come running at straight at her but then hug her and hug her close to their chests mimi would beat the shit out of them yes for sure no she wouldn't frank would have no eyes left well i've seen the way they throw the doll of me Around in the air which I need to put on Fucking Instagram again That would oh Mimi girl okay Steven who? I have any idea who's first I tried really hard this time it's Karen

Well I mean again people are like do the live shows count But that was the last episode Karen went last so Karen goes first Okay Yeah I don't know if the live shows count We're creating Our own reality here I think the episodes

We post count Right Yeah Except they're not Real time to us That's the weird part How about After live shows

We get Excuse me I'm burping We get to choose Who goes first Sure But only Only on that day

Like only in that scenario Which one That we In the scenario Where we have just posted But only on that day? Like only in that scenario? Which one? In the scenario where we have just posted a live show. Yeah, if we've just posted a live show, because we don't know, you know, so much going on. Okay, so then, oh, how about we rock, paper, scissors right now? Basically, that a live show does a reset is what you're saying. That sounds fine to me. Okay, we do rock, paper right okay rock paper scissors hit that means you get to decide or

you just cut georgia's paper i'm scissors she's paper that's true that was the i'm scissors i'm paper song which means karen goes first i'll go first okay so that was unnecessary there is a level of hysteria to this episode that i am enjoying quite a bit because your dogs didn't get hit by cars because my dogs aren't dead my um neighbor's gonna fix my fence oh i didn't even tell you guys about the sunburn that i have if i had a smaller upper body like oh and i also didn't tell you what happened can you see you're just not pale oh no that's red yeah oh that's gonna peel my whole back what happened i just stood outside for 15 minutes like a fool like some sort of normal person with normal skin i didn't know

you were that irish yeah well i do it where i'll save it save it save it and then all of a sudden i'm like i love i'm gonna go outside and stand in the pool and then I do it where I'll save it, save it, save it. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I love, I'm going to go outside and stand in the pool. And then I do it for like, I'll start reading my phone or something. And then I'm just standing around with no sunblock on for like an extended period of time at one o'clock, which is the, you know, you can't do it. I didn't know that about you. Yeah. How I burn.

I, I, that's why I don't like all the things. Life. Anything. That's why I don't like anything. It's like these. You don't like photosynthesis because. We live in a summertime city

where everybody here has perfect skin and you're wearing, right now you're wearing a terrycloth like summer jumper. Yeah. Like you're living the life.

Because I am a nondescript Jew who can tan well. I know. And you have yeah like you're living the life because i am a nondescript jew who can tan i know and you're like you have a consistency my right now i look like neapolitan ice cream i am deeply tan i am frighteningly white but here's what i want you to know there's a pinkness here's what you guys got to remember at people and how they look and they have this perfect thing. I am so fucking anxious and have so much anxiety around the bathing suit strapped tan lines that I am so insane

in the sun that that's why I don't have them. I don't look like, ah, this great glowy tan. It's just no big deal. Like, I will not go outside with fucking straps on. Oh, okay. So you're all different, Karen. So you work. You're saying you really put in the mental and the physical work. Because I think nothing looks trashier than having like, especially the, I'm going to insult a lot of people.

You know, including the one you're looking at right now. No, no, no, no, no. I don't care about any of that. I'm saying the triangle bikini tan line. Girl. That goes up around your neck well you don't wear clothes i've never seen a fucking all i want to do aside from your if i all i want to do right now is take my shirt off yeah and show you it's not a farmer's tan anymore now i've got

the thing that's happening to me right now is is like a lobster tan but that's not fair because you have a fucking pool in your backyard but you just be like tits out right so what the fuck tits out fits out fits out everyone who's looking for that um backyard where they can break into there's also a pool back there and there's a karen kilgariff without uh no i wear a full calf tan all at all times except for the 15 minutes i didn't do it today. And now I don't know where this is going. I don't have time.

And yet all I want to do is talk about this. All I want to do is talk about this. What if we did an episode without murder? We could do it. We must be 30 minutes in already. 45. Cut out the conversation we had while you were getting the burgers and we just talked about riots. It actually got quiet for a little while.

It got weird because we were both just like... Also, I have my grandmother's beautiful vintage mug just full of whiskey. Nice. Yeah. That's how this is going. God damn. And my murder's good, but kind of long, so I'm worried about this. Yeah, I am too.

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or don't that'd be creepy okay bye okay the world is canceled we can do this in 50 15 minutes okay we're going to now put this on um this you know how you can do it 1.5 speed or two speed me oh yeah like all podcasts we're gonna talk like that so if you put it on on times two it's gonna be like times 10 yeah this. This week I'm doing Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf. Yay. Have you heard of him? Do you know him?

I don't. It's one of those things that you bookmark a million times to maybe do, and then you don't do it. I, um, there's another guy that's German that, that was called like the werewolf of something. Um,

that I thought this guy was. And so I was, I thought it was going to be like the 1600s. You know that you are. What if I wasn't? No, no, no. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles.

It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow.

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was exciting. I mostly took this. Most of the information is from biography.com which is such a good when you get one of those articles they do it here's the thing when you research these stories yes you know who's good every victim is like on one in one article she's 10 years old in another one she's 13 in another one she's nine and it literally one time she's 17 the times change the dates change the ages change you get on biography biography.com and you're like this is golden there's a few biography.com vanity fair washington post yes new york times lock and load lock and lock and you are you have all the details

You're good to go Yeah Martha Stewart living She knows all the good Killer info Yes she does Okay Peter Curtin

Born in 1883 We're going all the way back You were like I'm not doing that I know Immediately Nope

Right as I started Doing that voice My sunburn flared And I was like No voices One of your sunburn flared and I was like, no voices. One of your sunburn is like your psyche. That's like, stop it. Stop. My sunburn is my dad's voice from my childhood going, hey, show off time's over. All my dad did my whole childhood. Jesse Pop. Your dad is Jesse Pop.

Is he really? Show off time's over. Does he say stuff like that? It sounds like our friend Jesse Pop. Is he really? Show off's time's over. Does he say stuff like that? It sounds like Jesse. Our friend Jesse Pop. Hey, hey. That and you're not better than me. You think you're better than me?

You think you're better than me? You think you're better than me? Okay. Born in 1883. Peter was the eldest of 13 children. Nope, don't do that. Both parents severe alcoholics. Don't do that either.

Please don't do it. Father, a brutal sadist who would beat his wife, beat the children viciously, molested his daughters, and would sometimes gather the children and make them watch him have sex with their mother. He was eventually arrested for raping his daughter multiple times. Oh, you're fake. So, terrible, terrible kickoff for Peter Curtin. No no good very bad childhood all bad in 1902 when he was nine years old he brief befriended a dog catcher who lived in the same apartment building as him super chill dude right people who catch dogs and kill them right um actually this man

uh would keep the dogs and torture them. And he taught Peter all about it. Is this a weird, like themed episode for you about dog catchers? This is called dog anxiety by Karen Kilgariff. This is why I am surrounded by cats right now. Yes, exactly. Um,

so, okay. So Peter having a terrible parent and then also his father went off to jail. So he basically bonded with the worst person he could ever be around. So terrible childhood, terrible outside influence. When he was 11 years old, he told the police that he was playing on a raft with a schoolmate and he pushed the boy into the water because he knew the boy couldn't swim. Oh, great.

And when another schoolmate saw this happen, the second boy jumped into the water to save the first boy and Peter Curtin leaned down and pushed both their heads underwater and drowned them both. And the police, when the police came upon it, they ruled it an accidental drowning.

My mouth is, I'm not just being quiet because i'm not a quiet person i'm only quiet when i'm shocked it's a jar that's fucked up the door is a jar and nine years uh no sorry 11 years old it's so it's like the age of my niece it's so creepily young wow um so then when he became an adolescent um his fetish for animal cruelty developed into full-on bestiality um thanks to the old dog catcher he began to have sex with barnyard animals and he then developed or progressed into killing the animals while he was fucking them. No, no, no. Yes. No.

We don't have to live there for very long. Let's move on. He, of course, was always running away from home to get away from his father's violence and sadism, but then he always ended up having to come back. When he was 16, on his way out of town one time when he was running away, he met a woman. He lured her into the local park where he raped her and strangled her okay so in 1913 at the age of 20 he's out on his own he starts robbing you know he's doing a lot of petty crimes i guess he starts breaking into

taverns because there's a business on the downstairs then there's living quarters on the upstairs so on may 25th 1913 he breaks into an establishment that's owned by the klein family so as the parents worked downstairs um peter curtain uh snuck into their living quarters upstairs found 10 year old christine klein asleep in her bed, raped her, strangled her, slit her throat, then sat there and watched her bleed out. The next morning, he returned to the scene of the crime. He went to the pub across the street,

and he bought a drink and sat amongst the locals and listened to them as they talked about what happened and speculated about who did it. Wait, how old was he at this point? 20. Okay. And at the time, an uncle in the Klein family and the father who owned the pub had been fighting and the uncle had threatened his brother and said,

like, I'm going to do something that you're going to regret. So for a little while, everybody thought the uncle did it and um he actually eventually was let off but he was actually a main suspect in this murder yeah um two months later he broke into another tap tavern and this time three sisters were sleeping in their beds he went to the girl in the center bed she was 17 year old gertrude franken and he strangled her while she slept he killed her and then snuck back out neither of her sisters woke up what are like specifically specifically evil thing to do horrible to be like i'm letting them wake up to this. Yeah. On purpose. Yeah. On purpose. No, he is a deranged mind. It's all the worst things combined. Because clearly he already was a sociopath.

But then he had the worst childhood a human being could possibly have. The worst family a human being could possibly have. The worst outside influence. Like, it just came at him from every direction yeah um in 1913 he was arrested for arson so we're he's all about that mcdonald uh triad they call it of of herding animals arson he probably was a bedwetter triad i saw that word today too and i was looking something up yeah that, I think that's the person that made it up. Okay.

McDonald's? The McDonald's triad. Two cheeseburgers. Killing animals. Special sauce. Wetting the bed. Light all that shit on fire. And then light it all on fire with a sign of fire.

Then wet your bed. Jesus Christ. Okay. With each successive sentence, Peter Curteter curtain's rage this is a direct quote from the biography channel page as i'm reading this i'm like this is hard to read oh because it's a cut and paste um peter curtain's rage against society and his capacity for depravity increased so when he would go to jail he gets'd get sent to solitary confinement. Oh, which I'm sure is chill as fuck, right? Well, when he was there, he was able to very deeply fantasize very vividly about the brutal sex acts that he enjoyed. And so then he would break prison rules intentionally so that he would get the longest sentence in solitary confinement.

Because he liked it so much. It's disgusting. Okay. He was called up for military service at the start of World War I, but he deserted and he was jailed. He remained in prison until 1921, which was his longest sentence to date. And when he got out of prison,

he married an older woman a sex worker who he knew who had uh served time for killing her fiance her name was augusta they were a great pair they found real love they found love in a in a whatever homeless homeless place a homeless place um that's right he became he became a molder i think that so he maybe shaped crown moldings yeah places caster plaster caster plaster uh they lived in relative normalcy for four years and then they moved back to dusseldorf and right around that time rapes began uh being reported all over the city oh no okay so now he going into, we're in 1929 now. February 3rd, he meets a woman named Maria Kuhn.

He ends up stabbing her 24 times with a pair of scissors. So this, now he starts carrying a pair of scissors around with him at all times. He is not an organized killer like i think they're saying like he's he's an impulse killer but he so he like he knows who he wants to kill and he plans that a little bit beforehand but he doesn't plan anything it's like there it is and goes for it yeah but he knows what he's looking for but he's got his scissors in his pocket because he's like wants to be ready sure um okay so february 9th 1929 five days after attacking maria coon he strangles nine-year-old rosa oliger stabs her all over her entire body he leaves then returns to the body hours later and sets it on fire monster on february 13th he stabs 45 year old mechanic

uh rudolph sheer 20 times with his scissors he returns to the scene of the crime again and this time speaks to detectives about what happened um the german press uh obviously is covering all of this. Right. And at one point they find out from police that the police are theorizing that this attacker is drinking the blood of his victims. And so that's when the German press dubs him the vampire Dusseldorf. Now, at one point right around this time, a learning disabled man named Stausberg, um, admitted to all of the vampire killings. So he's committed to an asylum and the police have convinced themselves that the case is solved.

Six months after that, on August 11th, he, uh, asks a woman named Maria Hahn to a date, uh, at a pub. He gets her alone, rapes her, strangles her, stabs her to death, buries her body in a cornfield. He visits the body. Which is new for him, right? Burying a body? Yes.

Because he's almost like, oh, I got away with this, so I'm going to be different about it. Yes. It's escalating and he's like getting creative. Because someone got caught for his shit. Maybe. It's almost smart. You know what I mean?

It almost shows how smart he was. Right. Where it's like you didn't keep doing the same thing. You were like. He changed it up. And he does it again, the same thing again later. He buries the body in the cornfield, goes and visits it a bunch of times, and eventually sends an anonymous letter to the police revealing her burial spot. So three days later, after he murders Maria Hahn on October 24th, 1929, he's in a suburb of Germany.

Two foster sisters are attending a fair together. 14 year old Louisa Lenson and five year old Gertrude Honaker. And Peter Curtin sees them there by themselves. So he chats with them. He charms them. He makes friends with them. At one point, he sends Louisa off for cigarettes,

then leads five year old Gertrude into the bushes, strangles her and slits her throat. So the next day, he attacks another woman. Her name's Gertrude Schult. She survives the attack and she gives the police a description of her attacker. She says he's a pleasant looking man in his 40s. So now, after all these attacks the entire city of dusseldorf is in a panic um in september of 1929 he rapes a house servant named ida router and then beats her to death with a hammer and leaves her body next to a river so he's changing

his mo again um the next month on oct 12th, he meets another servant girl. Her name was Elizabeth Dorier. And he asks her out. They walk along a river and he hits her in the head with a hammer. He rapes her, beats her to death with the hammer and leaves her body there by the river. A few days later, he attacks two more people with his hammer, but they survive. A few days later, he attacks two more people with his hammer, but they survive. So basically now he's causing mass hysteria in Dusseldorf.

The press is going crazy and he loves it. He's eating it up. On November 9th, 1929, he sent a newspaper, a hand-drawn map that detailed the position of the body that he left his most recent victim a five-year-old girl named gertrude alberman how many gertrudes are there there's three i mean i think there's more there's three or four because it's germany in the 30s and 20s um go on he he stabbed this five-year-old 35 times and then hit her God. And then hit her under some rubble. And then after he did that, he waited around. An angry mob formed when they found out that another little girl had been murdered. And he joined the mob and protested along with them.

Oh. So it's that, to me, that, like, move right there is what i'm in it for because it feels like if you took pictures of every crime scene of the people that were lined up you could see the people who were responsible like totally that thing of serial killers where they need to go back and they have to like revisit and they mess with the cops and all that stuff. Cause they enjoy it. They're smarter. Yeah. And they are smart in a way, in a way.

Yeah. Because they're psychopaths and our brains would never think that way because we could never imagine these things happening. Well, and also that thing that we learned where it's like, they don't feel anxiety, so they don't get nervous. And we're always measuring other people against how we feel. It looks nervous over there. Yeah. Where it's like they don't feel anxiety so they don't get nervous and we're always measuring

other people against how we feel that guy looks nervous over there yeah where it's like no they wouldn't be nervous they would walk right up to you and be like i've seen so i would like to report something that i've seen it's so dark oh my god can i tell you yeah i'll tell you later no no tell me well i was in my murder i was reading this thing and they had like in one of the articles it was like here's a riddle to see if someone's a psychopath or not if they understand if they can get this riddle and fix it then they're a psychopath or a sociopath or whatever the fuck you want to hear it yeah okay a woman goes to her sister's funeral have you heard this no okay woman goes to her sister's funeral at the funeral she meets a man And she falls in love with him

But she loses track of him And he leaves And she doesn't know who he is She doesn't know his name A couple weeks later She kills That woman kills her brother Why did she kill her brother?

Her brother? Mm-hmm A woman goes to her sister's funeral Meets a man Falls madly in love with him Doesn't know who he is He leaves a couple weeks later she kills her brother why because it's her father no that's always the answer to what they

i know that's what i thought too and this means you're not a sociopath so she can see the man again whoa yeah because she's like well If he came to my sister's funeral She knows us I really wanna see him again I'm gonna kill my brother And see if I can Like so the person Who would be able to fix that

Steven Steven now just got it Steven It's like Steven's an extra Was that your answer? Steven No

Steven's an extra Not so stupid Steven's weeping on the floor Because he didn't get it Until late I'm not making fun of you Steven I think you're just a sweet baby angel So slow No you're not slow you're not you know what i mean yes that's crazy it's the yawning trick or if you yawn and someone doesn't yawn catch your yawn okay but let's

just be careful with this trick it's because then fake but imagine if you're standing there and then someone like turns to you with like their reptile eyes and goes like oh because he'd want to see her again and then you're like oh shit i'm in the elevator with this person well it's the same way when like when when we did when i i think one of us told the whole thing of like if you yawn and the person doesn't catch your yawn it's because they have no empathy and like we and that was like an episode 20 whatever and we still get people like my cat didn't just yawn right now yeah and like and i was at the time i was like, Vince didn't yawn when I yawn. Yep. So like,

it's all, what's the word? Party trick. However, it's a fun, it's fun times. It's a fun time. It's a good way to pass the time.

So also if you're just really quick, if you are, and it probably won't count now, but if you're, if you're going through the old back catalog and you're say a full year behind, you can hold those corrections. You can just keep those to yourself because you can we rest we assure you we've been corrected we've seen dear zachary everyone every once in a while but people just tweet me trophy and i'll be like we fucking know that's not even from 10 episodes ago. I think we've done it like 10 times.

Whatever. Okay. Listen. Look. Listen. Look and listen. Okay. Listen.

Sorry. Go. Okay. So the angry mob is where I ended. Angry mob. But now here's the thing. So the police noticed this time that the handwriting that was in the letter of the woman that was buried at the cornfield believe maria was her name it matches the map that someone this anonymous

person sent of five-year-old gertrude's burial site and so the cops are like hold on a second these like they're putting it all together so finally in 1931 knowing the police were close to catching him peter curtain confesses his entire murder spree to his wife augusta she's like cool she's like damn right um and oh my god he tells her you need to turn me in and you can get a reward like let's do this so that you're taken care of so that my bad behavior doesn't fuck you over which is super weird such a weird like he really loved his wife and was stayed loyal to her and i mean didn't not really because he was doing terrible things but it's also like that he had a conscience or he cared conscience conscience enough to like tell her yeah and most guys who like fuck make out with someone at a party and cheat on their whatever don't tell yeah he was

like listen he's like hey augusta i'm a real wild card guess what hey you're not going to believe what i'm about to tell you ever heard of 10 girls named Gertrude? Killed them all. Damn. That was me. You know how everyone's just screaming at the top of their lungs in the street all day and every day? Yeah. It's because of me.

It's me. Okay. So once he was under arrest, he provides an astonishingly detailed account of his string of crimes to Professor Carl Bergg who is a distinguished psychologist who later published a confession in a book called the sadist um curtain claimed 79 individual acts of crime in all he went to great lengths to convince the authorities of his guilt his memory was nearly photographic oh my god so his recollection of each offense provided him with great pleasure. And in his trial, which started on April 13th, 1931 in Dusseldorf, he was brought up on nine charges of murder, seven attempted murder.

He initially retracted his extensive confession, claiming that he'd only said that to ensure his wife's financial security. But then there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence that he eventually just pled guilty. It took the jury 90 minutes to return a verdict of guilty on all counts. He received nine death sentences and he was executed by guillotine on July 2nd, 1931 in Cologne. And during his trial, I think this is very interesting, he was made to sit in a cage in the courtroom so that the family

members of the victims didn't attack and kill him. Yes. That's Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf and the monster of Dusseldorf. That was fucking good, Karen. Thanks. Considering we're probably never going to go to Dusseldorf, Germany, too.

I'm glad you did it on the podcast and not at a live show. That's right. You know? You never know, though. You don't ever know. All these Germans were like, ugh. Ochten? Ochten, baby.

Yeah. Should we do it? Let's do it. should we do it? let's do it I'm going to pee do you want to check your time stamp? I'm going to pee and eat an onion at the same time

here we go okay Here we go. Okay. Double time. Hold on. I'm sorry. They're not in order. Oh, my God.

Okay. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-boop. Jesus. Sorry. Can you give me one second? Fuck, these are not in order. You know what? Can you hand me my computer?

I'll just read off my computer. Sorry. It's okay. Thank you. Fucking printer. Fucking printer. I did numbers right before i printed page i did page numbers why don't they i know it should be automatic you should opt to take them off not put them on right i need a new printer basically okay okay all right all right i'm just gonna get started on this one even though i have some thoughts on it

but okay i think it's best to just like let's get into this okay um you ready for the murder of the family of jeffrey mcdonald oh yes do you know this one this is the one i thought the other one was yes this is the one I thought the doctor. Yeah. Is this guy a doctor too? Sam Shepard. Yes, yes, yes. This is not Sam Shepard's family,

but yes, this guy is a, yes, yes, yes. They're very similar. They're very similar. Okay, awesome. So I'm going to just get into this and then, because this is,

all right, Jeffrey McDonald. He's in high school. He's voted most popular and most likely to succeed. He's senior class president, captain of the fucking football team. Hot, like well-liked popular dude. In the in the made for TV movie Fatal Vision, Karen, he is played by a young Gary Cole. Oh, yes.

Gary Cole. Right. We know those TPS reports by Friday. Remember? Office Space? Yes. I'm going to have to go ahead and have you come in on Saturday. This is what I was going to ask you what he was from.

Because I didn't know and I knew you'd know. Mostly Office Space. Yes. I mean, that's his greatest role of all time. Definitely. Except for Fatal Vision. Except for Fatal Vision. Where he plays a young Jeffrey McDonald.

After high school He gets a scholarship To fucking Princeton And while he's there So jealous You think he's Fucking better than us What do you know Steph

Oh Gets a scholarship To Princeton And then while he's there He marries his high school Sweetheart Colette Stevenson She is played

By Wendy Shaw Okay From Fatal Vision So you watch Fatal Vision Is what you're telling me Yeah but I also knew heart colette stevenson she is played by wendy shaw okay fatal vision so you watched fatal vision is what you're telling me yeah but i also knew that you would have questions and i would need and i just like also don't ever know who's gonna strike your fancy true and you just want to be ready yeah so i have a couple more characters um all right after high, he goes to Princeton, marries Colette Stevenson. He goes to medical school and then he joins the army. He becomes a Green Beret captain, which is a big deal, and a doctor in the army. So by 26 years old, the couple, along with their two daughters, Kimberly, age five, and

Kristen, age two, move to the prestigious Fort Bragg, North Carolina, which is an army base, but it's also open to the public, which I didn't know that. Yeah, it's a very famous army base. Right. Yeah. 26 years old, and you've done all this stuff? You must be a sociopath. No.

All right. So here is his story. I'm going to start with his story. It's a cold, rainy night on February 16th, 1970. They are in their ground floor apartment, four and a half month old pregnant Colette and two year old Kristen are asleep in the master bedroom. And Kimberly is asleep in her room. She's five.

Jeffrey goes to try to go to bed and he finds that Kristen had wet his side of the bed in the master bedroom. So he brings her back to her own bed and he goes to sleep on the couch because he doesn't want to disturb everyone and make the bed again. All right. So he's asleep on the couch and then he is awoken while he's on the couch by Colette shouting, Jeff, why are they doing this to me? And Kimberly screaming daddy daddy daddy He opens his eyes on the couch And sees four figures standing over him A black man In a fatigued jacket

With sergeant stripes on the sleeve Two white men and a woman Wearing a floppy hat over stringy blonde hair She's holding a flickering candle In front of her face and is chanting Acid is groovy Kill the pigs Jeff She's holding a flickering candle in front of her face and is chanting, acid is groovy. Kill the pigs.

Jeffrey begins to rise and the black man brings a club crashing down on his head. A second later, McDonald feels a sharp pain on the right side of his chest and he looks down and he sees an ice pick blade that had been stabbed into him. He tries to wrestle the guys. And despite the fact that he's a Green Beret, which one of their things is to be training clandestine guerrilla force, they're still able to fight him and pull his pajama top over his head and onto his wrist. So he's got his arms up, but the pajama top is holding his wrist together and he's trying to fend them off.

But they keep trying to stab him. And then the black man keeps clubbing him. And finally he, he falls unconscious at the steps of the hallway that lead to the bedrooms. So he had been overpowered. Okay. And this vicious struggle. With hippies.

With drug crazed hippies. Acid heads. Acid head. Kill the pigs. Kill the pigs. Acid heads. Acid head, kill the pigs. Kill the pigs. Acid heads. As they yell, as they are known to yell. When he comes to, Karen, he's on the stairs.

He gets up and stumbles to the master bedroom and finds Colette sprawled on the floor with the handle of the knife sticking out of her chest. He pulls the knife away and he throws it aside and he covers her body with his pajama top that he had removed from his wrist at that point and tries to give her mouth to mouth. What a good guy,

right? Wait, okay. What? No, no, go ahead. No, yeah, you're right. You're correct. That how gross, I mean, if somebody's been stabbed to give them mouth to mouth, that's not going to work. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah, and I just don't think most people do that, right? Well, he's not going to work. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. And I just don't think most people do that. Right.

Well, he's a surgeon too. Oh, no, no. He should know whether or not that wouldn't help work. Yeah. Right. Yes. Okay. So Colette has been struck at least six times in the head with a blunt object.

One of them causes a fracture to her skull. She had nine deep knife wounds at the front of her neck seven deep knife wounds to her chest and 21 puncture wounds to her chest area her chest is also bruised from what looked like an object that had been thrust into her chest on the headboard of the master bedroom uh someone had used one of their fingers to write the word pig in her blood uh mcdonald jeffrey mcdonald i kind of hate saying their last name instead of their first name because it makes you know like saying jeffrey makes it so much more personal do you know what i mean like in all of these murder stories we do yeah so jeffrey pulls the knife out puts it to the side

and then tries to keep her mouth to mouth in In her bedroom, Kristen, who was two years old, she has 22 gaping knife wounds to her upper back, four wounds to her chest, and one to her neck. There's 15 shallow puncture wounds found on her chest, as well as multiple cuts on both of her hands like she's trying to defend herself oh i know this is it's just fucked up in her bed kimberly had been struck at least three times in the head with a blunt the blunt object and her skull showed multiple fractures steven looks like he's gonna pass the fuck out right now it just doesn't make sense it's like why would any hippies or people any otherwise of all the things you want to do like you want to rob people you want to murder whatever and i mean i just got done talking about the vampire of düsseldorf who did exactly this

but it's a rare person who can stab a baby multiple times and the breaking and entering thing like not being a sadistic child killer not being a rapist or a pedophile and these things just happen in the house seems so weird and this is why i'm starting with so i just wanted to start right which is we this is a great place to say like this is the story he told all right so like this this story is so fucked up and insane and i've heard it so many times. And when I finally decided to do it, I'm not doing it in a way that's like, here are the facts, and this is what happened. Which are incredible and interesting and crazy. And there's a great episode of Generation Y where they cover this case, and it's point by point, and it's really good.

And they're coming from the same place that I am, which is that he clearly fucking did it. So here's his story. I'm not going to get into all the insane facts of the trials that happen. I'm going to go in, I'm going to do his story. What happened then? What is most likely the real story? Okay.

So this is why I'm saying it so dramatically, which I normally don't do. Right. This is such a fucking bullshit made up story. Yeah. Yeah. I can tell with your, there's a,

there's a hint of sarcasm. Right. And then there's some drama in it that I know that you hate this person. Right. And what's essentially what's yeah, I'm so bad at it. I can't lie. I hate you. You'll fucking know.

What's so incredible about this is that there's still an argument about whether or not he did it, which I think when I get done with what really happened you won't fucking believe it so um kimberly is in bed eight to ten deep niphones are found on the right side of her neck so the colette kimberly and kristen are all dead um then once he wakes up finds him dead jeffrey calls the operator and says we've been stabbed people are dying people are dying yeah not my wife and my children we've all been stabbed people are dying some people are dying yeah we yeah it is so fascinating when they break that stuff down of like yeah all those micro you know uh micro expression people that know the word and we've talked about that in other things. Definitely. Or when you use certain words and what it means, the word choice.

Like even just the breakdown of, you know, Patsy Ramsey's 911 call about JonBenet and the ransom letter, quote unquote, for JonBenet. Fascinating. And this is another one of those. There is a breakdown of his call as well as when he is interrogated later of every single thing he says and it's fucking incredible and i wish i could have included the whole thing but it would have been three episodes so i'm not okay but let's just do it right now okay let's just you know what let's just go for it um

when they arrive they find the sole survivor jeffrey mcdonald lying with his arm around colette in the master bedroom unconscious so like he went and called then he fucking positioned himself next to his wife okay he had sustained bruising over his eye a superficial stab wound in the arm and on his abdomen in the form of an upside down V. Several small puncture wounds were present on the upper left chest. None of his wounds required suturing. A neat and clean stab wound was located between two ribs on the right side of his chest and resulted in a collapsed lung. Oh, right.

Which is interesting. As they were gurneying him out, he whispers to the medics, four of them. She kept saying acid is groovy. Kill the pigs. Like he tells them that dramatically. Right. All right. So then I wrote now reality.

So by the time the sun had risen the next day, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division, CID, which we're calling it now they didn't even believe jeffrey story aside from his minor injuries there was no sign of an ice pick puncture on him despite the fact that he said he had been stabbed by an ice pick also there's just a single fiber fiber from his ripped pajamas a single fiber was found in the living room where the struggle had ensued. That's all they found was a single, like, strand of his pajamas from ripping. However, in the bedrooms, there were dozens of his pajama fibers, including several found beneath Colette, others under Kimberly's sheets in her bedroom,

and two more in Kristen's room, one lodged under her fingernail. Oh, no. His pajamas, which he had said he had stumbled into colette's the wife's room taken his pajamas off and covered her with it so he wouldn't even had it when he went into the kids room yeah um he claims he performed cpr on all three of them but none of their mouths were open and his daughters were tucked into bed and lying on their sides and he's a fucking surgeon so he would know that that's not how you give cpr yeah he originally claimed he didn't wash up before making the call to the police but there's no blood on the phone he used to make the

call and but there was blood in the sink drain oh then the cid found a blood smudged brand new issue of Esquire magazine in the living room. So an article in the Esquire magazine details the drug crazed hippies who had murdered Sharon Tate just seven months before that. According to investigators, it contained the article contained 18 similarities to the murders of Colette and the girls, including a blonde candle candle-carrying hippie woman. You know what's funny? I was thinking Patty Hearst, because there's that famous picture when Patty Hearst...

With her hat on? Did she wear a hat into the bank? I can't remember. I just see her with a pulled-down low hat, but she did have a wig on. So she had... But I guess it wasn't blonde hair but there was a black man with an army jacket oh my god karen that's what i was thinking of but i mean it's all the same thing where it's like but i don't that was that 1970 was it before or after maybe he's psychic anyway it's like clearly it's just like

these three things have been in the media and they were he was just like i drive around and there's a hippie there's a like yeah it's the thing of like and i read a lot about reddit things where we're like the acid is groovy sure that's something we said like and uh you know acid is so groovy we said groovy kill the pigs was a totally different sect of people those were the crazy left-wing you know, fuck the police people who weren't the same as the hippies. So it's something that like a straight-laced military man would be like, here's what hippies say. Here's what drug-crazed

hippies say. Especially someone that's reading up on the Manson murders. Because that death to the pigs or whatever, that thing was a part of it too. Someone said someone, and when they were talking about that in the Reddit article, they were like, it's like if today someone were trying to blame

hipsters on something and said, they kept saying the first album was better. The first album, the first album was the best. And it's like, nobody fucking really says that.

That's what you think we say. It's just this like insanity, which I really love because I hadn't even thought about that. Okay. They found that the, that the, the thought about that um okay they found that the that the the word pig that was written in blood on the on the headstand had been written and using

a surgical glove which were found in the house and the weapons that all come from inside the house and then the weapons were thrown in a bush right outside the house almost like someone opened the back door and like if there were four people at least who were uh committing something they'd all run out and put their put their fucking weapons under the same bush yeah no pre-agreed bush before they went in put it down walk away guys this is the this is weapon bush please weapon bush steven that's the name of the episode. This is our new. That's what I'm going to call it. Never mind. Okay.

Going on. Under a bush and the... Okay. So, how-meber. Listen, there's always a how-meber, you know? Got to. Got to have a how-meber. Someone made a shirt that just says how-meber on it. Really?

It makes me so happy. Aw. So, of course, many... Not of course. Okay. Cut that out. Steve... It makes me so happy. Aw. So, of course, many... Not of course. Okay, cut that out. Steve... No, don't cut that out. Many mistakes were made during the investigation.

From failing to seal off the crime scene, so 26 people trampled through it before it was finally secured, which is kind of a normal thing in the 70s, I feel like. Yes, that happened all the time. And they didn't know it was happening. They showed up. It's pouring rain.

They run in. They see bodies. They have to take one out. There's going to be a lot of people coming through yes but the fucking ambulance driver stole jeffrey mcdonald's wallet from his desk what yeah no you wink you want it right off the fucking desk wait it's is this an ambulance driver not on the on the army base i don't think so i think they just i i don't know it was an outsider an army base but there's a hospital that's crazy i don't know who it was but bold

move the ambulance driver walking with a gurney you know what i mean that guy had a problem yeah like being fired from his job hopefully and like the next day the garbage man they like were like yeah go ahead and take the trash away oh the trash out no um let's put a hold on that nope they also allowed ncis would have never made that mistake starring mark harman whenever i think of mark harman i think it's the um what's the olympic diver or what's the guy from craig luganis the one who hit his head yeah what's the guy from star ghanous the one who hit his head yeah what's the guy from star wars his name luke no no his father what's his uh no what's what's luke's name in real life mark hamill you say hammond i always think it's mark uh harman i think it's him oh oh yeah it's not they're similar they're similar white guys but this is why I tell you the names of people who are playing roles and ask you to fill

in. You run it all by me. No idea. Trash. McDonald's home. Oh, they 40 cents. 40 sets of fingerprints just were allowed to be destroyed. And a bloody footprint was lost in the process of removing it, which I just think of some

guy like slipping, like it's a banana peel. But he's trying to take a footprint print and then he's like, what? Someone knocks into him. Get those marbles out of here. Mr. Bean. It's just Mr. Bean. Get those marbles out of here.

Mr. Bean will never process a crime scene again. No, we're not making that mistake again Never again Sometimes I'm so busy talking that I don't hear the funny thing Believe me That's all I do Still The military

They formally charge Jeffrey McDonald With the murder On May 1st 1970 But at this point An 18 yearold drug addict hippie in town, known to police, named Helena Stokely, she's known to wear, get this, a floppy hat, a blonde wig, and the same kind of look, drug addict hippie. She confesses that herself and various people around town did the crime.

I thought you were dangling the kitten in front of Elvis just now. Out of the corner of my eye, I see Stephen dangling something in front of Elvis. And it's just, it looks like a kitten. Anyways, so she says, oh, I was really high on mescaline and acid that night. I think we were there. I remember these things from it. Here's three accomplices that I think was there with me. One of them turned out to be in jail while this was happening but she really throws a wrench in the whole thing uh

the wig and the floppy hat it heights the 70s you know who else owned that colette oh no so like there's just no it just fucks this investigation up forever right. And I wonder if that was intentional. Well, he made up a story and he got really fucking lucky. That's what I think happened. Think so? He made up a... Or could he have made up a story

and then given a wig and a hat to a person in town that would have... You know, considering he was a doctor and he was also, like, saw civilians, he might have already been aware of her at some point oh yeah she came in with someone who knows but from what i can tell she's she's a really unhealthy woman a girl drug addict mentally ill she in her teens she was 18 really not doing well and so she kind of seemed like someone who wanted who needed and wanted attention not in a mean way but in a

desperate way right so this whole thing got tangled up yeah she got tangled up in it which made his credibility which just made him seem more credible right which made people question introduced more doubt yeah that's the thing yes okay okay so that means based on everything, the charges were dismissed the following October because of insufficient evidence. And a couple of months after the murder charges were dropped, super hot, charismatic, really charming Jeffrey McDonald appears on, he becomes famous. He becomes like the Sam Shepard, which is that everyone loves him and knows him. And oh my God, he got his poor guy, his wife and two children died. And you know, that kind of thing. He appears on the late night program, The Dick Cavett Show. Although his celebrity comes from his family's brutal murders,

he doesn't seem like he gives a shit. He's laughing. The audience is laughing. He tells jokes. He criticizes the army investigators no fucking way he is he has no idea like he is so charming and sociopathic that he doesn't understand how bad this looks you know one of those people yes that you're like they love me well this is that's what diane downs did remember yes it's exactly that and then when they talk about like as if everyone's super concerned about them only right yeah he doesn't bring up the fact that you know her colette's parents have lost their daughter their only daughter and her child and grandchildren he's being fucking Mr. Funny Man over here. And he's like celebrating that he got let off on this.

Amazing. It's disgusting. But what's great about this is that up until this point, Colette's mother and her stepfather, who I think raised Colette. He's in it hard. Alfred and Mildred Kassab. How much do you love Alfred and Mildred? You want to know who plays them? Who?

Okay, Alfred is played by Carl Malden. Yes. Yeah. Streets of San Francisco. I was raised on it. Yeah? The best TV show of all time. Is that the one where there's like all these couples and they all hang out in there? No, that's Love Boat. No, what's the one from like

the San Francisco 90s one? 90s? Yeahs yeah gay people and straight people and they're like it's like oh oh that's um the yes that's the amistad map handbooks um yes yeah yeah yeah something something no this was literally from the 70s it was michael douglas and carl malden detectives san francisco driving around shooting at people and like as they drive around just randomly so they're murderers yes but cops um and as they drive around it's just like you're i you get to look at it's video footage it's film footage actually of my childhood because it's just like oh yeah that's that used to be there.

That was there. It's the most fun TV show to watch. Whenever I see an old LA, like, you know, the one where they drive around town, everyone go watch Los Angeles Plays Itself. It's such an amazing movie. Documentary, have you seen it? It's like a three-hour documentary, perfectly narrated, about Los Angeles playing itself in movies.

Wow. So, houses that are played in what movie backgrounds that are pretending to be China or, you know, downtown is supposed to be this thing, but you can tell it's not because of this landmark. It's, I can't wait. I've never heard of that.

Are you fucking, I have to see it. Listen, don't do drugs. Get high and watch Los Angeles by itself. And I'll see you in four fucking hours. It's unbelievable. I got to fucking hours. It's unbelievable. I gotta see it.

I watched it eight times and I've never gotten past an hour because it's just so involved and you fall asleep. Anyway. Okay. Carl Malden. Mildred is played by Eva Marie Saint. Eva Marie Saint. Yeah.

My dad pretended he saw her. It was one of my favorite movies. Did he pretend he saw her when he was carrying her bags on a ship and then he married your mom? No, he was. I know. I talk about my father too much. He's really hilarious. Marty.

Let's talk about my dad and your dad. Right? We were pulling out of Vons and this woman walked in front of the car who was wearing clear plastic high heel shoes. There was a, there was a real, um, Angeline feel to this woman. Um, bit broke down trying to be pretty later on in life. In no way am I criticizing her.

I'm there with her. But as she passed the front of the car, my dad goes, Eva Marie Saint and pretended to recognize her. And it's, I, it was, that happened four years ago

and I'm still laughing about it. I bet that would have made her day if she thought that someone recognized her. But,

except for if she, if she heard the sarcasm in his voice. Oh. He, it was a bit. Larry.

Larry? Jim. Why do I always call him Larry? Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim. You think that I'm related to the Silvermans and I'm not. Is that their dad's Larry? Jim. Jim, Jim, Jim. You think that I'm related to the Silvermans, and I'm not.

Is that their dad's name? It could be. Larry Silverman. My God. It actually might be. Shit, that would be creep-tastic. Okay. Okay, so the parents are outspoken supporters of Jeffrey through the whole trial.

Everything. Alfred even said that if he had another daughter, he would still want Jeffrey as his son-in-law, which is creepy. But once the charges are dropped and he starts seeing all these little fucking creepy things, he's like, go fuck yourself. Oh, because the psychopath mask finally came down. Finally, yes. So he realizes that Jeffrey had been lying to him about so many things

including jeffrey told him finally he was like get off my back man here's what happened myself and several several other green berets we tracked down one of the killers and we put him we killed him they told me killed one of the killers just to be like we took care of it. Leave us alone. Leave me alone. So because of his crazy fucking, like, this guy, I want, like, I'm pretty sure that Vince is going to be, like, growing up to be this guy. And it made me, like, kind of love him. Where it was not Vince, the other guy. Obviously, I love Vince.

Yes, yes. He was just, like, dogged became a investigator found everything wrong with his fucking trial transcripts everything he searched the house himself he was a badass this is the dad colette's dad this is the stepdad yeah who i think was with with him forever they're like one of those cute old couples anyways so with him and the formation of the cid reinvestigation team um they indict jeffrey by then he was living a lavish life in california as a civilian doctor he's like fucking chicks he's got a yacht he's got a lot of money he's famous because he's the doctor who didn't kill people maybe in 1974 mcdonald is brought before the jeffrey is brought before the grand jury in North Carolina and he's indicted in all three counts of murder in 1975 whoa uh in a trial that lasted over six weeks the government

introduced over a thousand evidentiary items and at the trial Helena denied the chick the crazy drug chick young person was like I I wasn't there I don't know what happened. Denied everything. Later, she's diagnosed with schizoid personality. Yeah. Which is sad. McDonald, Jeffrey McDonald is convicted of all three counts of murder in less than seven hours. Wow. Yeah.

All right. So let's talk about what really fucking happened. Okay. Ready for the same story as above. Yeah. That's the beginning. But what actually happened? And here's why we know.

And this is fucking crazy. Okay. above yeah it's the beginning but what actually happened and here's why we know and this is fucking crazy um okay first of all a lot of this is from the mcdonald case facts.com by phil callahan this guy is just a civilian he's a fucking web sleuth and he's like dedicated his life to this yeah and he is like here's what happened based on the fact that and this is so fucking crazy to me, all four members of the household, Jeffrey, Colette, Kristen, and Kimberly, they all had different blood types, which is a statistical anomaly. Okay. Like in a family that doesn't fucking happen.

Right. And that means that they were able to trace what happened room by room because of the blood types. Oh, I just got the weirdest chills. You know what it made me think of when I wrote this down? So, you know, like in like Who Framed Roger Rabbit or those like old timey things are like, here's how to do the two step.

And they put like a footprint here and a footprint here. And then one goes back on over here. It's like that with blood. Oh, my God. Ready for this? Yeah. It's fucked up. Okay.

It's a fucked up dance. So, here's what really happened. I mean, according to everything. In the early morning hours, February 17th, 1970, Colette and Jeffrey McDonald get into a heated argument in the master bedroom. Jeffrey at the time was taking amphetamines to lose weight. Seventies. What were those?

Meth That's right Yeah And hadn't slept for 24 hours at least So he's out of his goddamn mind Right In the previous weeks, Colette had been upset that Jeffrey was planning on leaving for a long time To be the doctor for the army boxing team

Even though she was having a really difficult pregnancy and she was going to night school for psychology oh so this chick was a badass and he was kind of a narcissist so his wife not wanting to stay at home and be you know him having to stay home and take care of his kids at night when she went to school do the dishes didn't work for him did not jibe yeah is that the right yeah let's get that word wrong yeah um also the issue with their daughter wetting the bed was a big deal with them he got really pissed off about it she'd even brought it up in one of her psychology classes um and uh i was just guessing maybe he got more angry that night that she wet his side of the bed. Right.

Right. Like not just her bed. She wet the side, his side of the bed. Something fucking snapped. And at some point, Jeffrey punches Colette in the face. Who then, and this is all based on blood evidence as well as the fibers from the pajamas. Right. Colette grabs a hairbrush, jeffrey above his left eye these

are also based on the bruises and shit sorry they wrestle and jeffrey's pajama top gets torn in multiple places and then he hits colette in the face a second time and grabs what we remember as the wooden club from earlier what that turns out to be is that uh there was this wooden this piece of wood holding up a corner portion of the master bed footboard because you know how sometimes it gets wobbly you jam something underneath he fucking grabs whatever that is when he's on the floor and he fucking thrusts it like jabs at her uh of one end of that into her chest, and that's where that bruise came from. Like a wooden stake.

Because she probably had something she was trying to hit with him, so he couldn't come close to her. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly, like a wooden stake. But he doesn't puncture her, he just like... He just hits her with it. Hits her with it, like a javelin. So at this point, then Kimberly, the daughter,

enters the room here's her parents fighting maybe um and jeffrey turns around and hits her with the club on the left side of her face colette then screams jeff why are you doing this which is what he said he heard from the couch but it's a it's so loud that he thinks maybe the neighbors heard it so he includes it in his story but he turns it into jeff why are they doing this right um and then kimberly falls into the floor near the entrance of the master bedroom and we know this because there's her blood spattered around that area colette then grabs a knife from her side table, and she slashes Jeffrey's abdomen, resulting in that upside-down V laceration on his abdomen.

And then Jeffrey retaliates with two blows with the club to Colette's head, knocking her unconscious. At this point, Jeffrey strips the bed, picks Kimberly up, who's unconscious, picks her from the bed sheet, and carries her back to her bedroom. He places her into a sleeping position he at that point leaves 14 pajama threads under her bed covers when he does that a 20.5 inch yarn of her his bed clothes found is found on top of kimberly's pillow and then this is you know he at this point supposedly would have had his pajamas off by

then. So the fact that his pajama threads are all over these place shows that this is what he actually did, because they shouldn't be underneath her even if he did come in there. He then uses the club to strike Kimberly with two blows on the right side of her face. And when he does that, you know, he picked the club up and hit her twice, cast blood onto the ceiling in those blows. And that blood had both Kimberly and Colette's blood mixed in, which means we know that he hit her first, hit Colette first. Then he covers Kimberly's body with her blanket and bed covers. Then he gets a knife from the kitchen and he leaves behind minute traces of blood uh all over the kitchen

and it the pattern shows that he was pacing the kitchen one thinks trying to figure out what the fuck to do grabs a knife paces the kitchen back and forth in a panic probably they don't think it was premeditated probably was like what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now then he goes into kristen's room and this is the other daughter who's sleeping not part of this at all and he stabs her in the chest as she lay on her bed and the wounds indicate that kristen was probably sleeping at this point in her pajama top the wounds indicate that they had it had been lifted before she was stabbed and the position of the wounds show that it was almost as if he was trying to identify the location of vital organs because she got stabbed in these specific places that a surgeon would know

would bear the most but that would do the most damage right like he's trying to be efficient in killing his daughter right um at some point she wakes up to try to shield herself because she had cuts and bruises on her hands and because of that pajama pajama fiber is found under her fingernail um he then stabs her in the back and places her places his daughter back into a sleeping position on her bed and he places her favorite pink security blanket in her arms can you fucking deal he exits the room and then when he's he's like bringing the bed sheets to go maybe wash them but here's colette stagger into kristin's room he hears her go in there to try to protect her daughter. Follows her in with the club

and he hits Colette in the face. Colette places her arms in front of her face in an attempt to ward off the blows and her arms, which is why her arms are bruised and shattered. And she gets hit twice more. Then he sets, so then he sets his club, club down on kristen's bed which is why there are

traces of kimberly's blood on the bed because the club he had hit kimberly with was then placed on the bed it's not insane you're trying to say you're trying to tell it's other people but there's such a basic fucking obvious yeah reason right that it's not true which is why it's insane to me that people are having websites dedicated to his innocence well right because back then nobody knew anything about like the any of this blood right the dna and the blood type and all that stuff didn't exist all of this shows that it's a panic this isn't planned this is a fuck what am i gonna do because then after all of this he that it's a panic. This isn't planned. This is a fuck. What am I going to do? Because then after all of this, he goes into the living room and he reads the Esquire magazine article.

And we know this because there's a bloody smudge on the edge of the magazine that then the blood belonged to Colette and Kimberly. He reads the article. Then he tosses his glasses aside. They landed under the window in the living room. And we know this because on those glasses, there's a mark of Kristen's blood. And that throwing the glasses aside to me is such a fucking definitive action of, well, now I know what I have to fucking do. You know, I read this article about how the Tate murders, you know, were blood crazed hippies.

Well, now I fucking know I have to finish this and make it look like that. It's also as a person who was on speed for a year, I've done acid and I've done speed for weight loss reasons. Oh, right. The idea that you would, uh, be able to read anything in that circumstance specifically where he's just

murdered his family. And then he sits down to read an article to me is like really indicative of the of the kind of psychopath he was because that's can you imagine like when you get into a fender bender how freaked out you are and now like you're just kind of imagine in the middle of all that you sit down and read something where you what would be how would you even take anything in well here's what i'm wondering is if he had read it earlier that evening or whenever because she had been at she had been at school that evening so i wonder if he had read through it earlier or not even thought about it and then these things started happening and he was like wait how did they make this look like maybe he probably hadn't written the word pig yet in blood and he was like maybe fueled on by the

fact that he had he hadn't slept and had read this stuff about these murders and kind of was fueled by that and then he went back to the magazine to be like how can i make this look like a cover-up he wasn't going to read he was going to find a way to cover this up right get like the what are the exact details he's basically being a doctor about it where he was like well if i'm going'm going to copy this, I'm going to copy it correctly. Yeah. And I'm going to do it in the way that's going to convince everybody. But I mean, it's just so cold.

It's like, oh, my God, he's a fucking reptile. A total reptile. And then like another argument people had on Reddit, which I can back this up, is when you're on acid, you can't fucking kill people. Like killing people on acid is not a thing um okay then he tips over the living room coffee table to show that there's been a struggle where he supposedly was sleeping but it's there's a lot of evidence that shows it wasn't which you can listen to in another podcast um okay so then he uses a bedspread to take colette's body back to the master bedroom and in the

process leaves three bloody footprints in Colette's blood as he leaves Kristen's room. And the fucking crazy thing about this is that you, they can tell that he was carrying something heavy by the way the footprints are mashed into the carpet. Oh, it's not fucking crazy. Oh, cause it's pile carpet. Like they can measure it like how heavy was the footprint right that's amazing i know so here's that we're almost in okay he puts colette on the master bedroom floor and unknowingly sets her body down on top of

24 pajama fibers underneath her body even though he said he put them on top um he hits her in the head again and then he goes into kimberly's room with the knife um inflicts more of her injuries with the knife then he takes the ice pick into kristen's room inflicts more room more wounds on her then he then he goes back in and stabs colette in the chest and neck with a knife and stabs her 21 times after he had put down his pajama top on top of her. So that's when he puts his pajama top on top of her, stabs her 21 times. And when the prosecutors were in court, they were able to show that the pajama top, the way it was laid laid down matched every single one of those 21 marks so he had put it on top of her as if to cover her so he didn't have to see himself stabbing his wife and 21 of those 21 marks went through that pajama top so he said that they were on his arms and he

was fending off blows from the people in the that's why those 21 marks were there and it perfectly matches his wife's wounds yep insanely fucked totally insane also just this idea of a crazed man walking from room to room killing and re-killing his family it's horrifying that and like he had never apparently they were in an apartment building so no one was ever like they had never argued before they'd never heard them fight they had some fucked up problems with their relationship he had had multiple uh affairs like he had been fucking 15 women uh up until that point like they were having big marital problems but they had never fought so this is a guy who is whacked out of his mind and fucking um snaps yeah doing this it's not a it's not a methodical

killer it's someone who is like here's what needs to be done and does it he's over the edge for sure yeah he's over the edge right and so the sam shepherd case is really similar um okay this one was after sam shepherd yeah yeah sam shepard's in the late 50s. Yeah. Early 60s. Yeah. So you probably read about that one too, right? Yes. Yeah. And then I did another one, another family or another murder of a family that was in Fort Bragg in 85 that mirrored this one a lot too. Whoa.

Yeah. But it wasn't the dad. Oh, God. What was it called? Summer Lane. Whoa. Yeah. But it wasn't the dad. Oh God. What was it called? Summer lane. Summer. Yeah. The summer lane murders.

We did it before. Anyways. Okay. Almost said, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, the puppies yes i hate that one so much yes i don't know what episode that is but it's it's happening i'd say 47 yes yes what if karen was yes what if you were a savant just for a podcast i'm like beautiful mind but just for podcast episodes um stabs in the chest line it up okay so then he walks to the back door with the weapons tosses them into the murder bush into the one bush

what do we call it the murder bush weapon bush goes back into the master bedroom uses the surgeon's glove to write the word pig on the headboard of the master bed there's three fibers from the pajamas found near the left corner of the footboard and one fiber found near the headboard.

So it was clearly him while he was. Wait, that must have been. OK, something's going on anyways. Then he obtained a disposable scalpel blade from the hallway closet because he won't even fucking stab himself with the ice pick. Stabs himself in the right side of his chest with a scalpel blade and then i go to reddit and reddit says someone on reddit is really smart and they say it is exactly where the doctor makes an incision to place a chest tube um to place a chest tube so this is the spot that we and he was like an emergency technician this is where we cut someone to place a chest too, because there is almost zero risk of harming the patient.

So he collapses his lung, but in a place that's not dangerous. He thinks that the severity of this wound will make people think I didn't do it myself. Yes. Okay. But then he is assured that he won't be hurt in any way. Hurt enough to make people not suspect him.

He then gathers himself for a little bit and then he phones authorities at 3.40 a.m. And 3.42 a.m. He did it twice. So that's what really happened. Jeffrey McDonald is now 68 and he remarried and is still in prison. Oh. 68 years old might be from an article I didn't look at the day. But he's an older man now, but he's still in prison.

He's married. When you said remarried, though, I was like, sorry, did he get off? Holy shit. No, he's in prison and remarried in prison. Okay, good. One of those people. Sure. He has never wavered from his claim that he didn't kill his wife and their children.

And he says he'll never apply for parole because that would require an admission of guilt, even though he's up for parole. Which means he won't be eligible for release until the year 2071. But he is still fighting for a new trial based on the fact that this woman, Helena, said she was the drug-crazed hippie. And there's videos of her online. You can find all kinds of videos from this. Of her just going, no. Of her saying, I did it. I don't know.

Maybe I did do it. Go watch Fatal Visions. It's amazing. There is so many interviews with him in prison. He reminds you of Ted Bundy meets fucking Robert Durst. Yeah, it's fucked up. So that's Jeffrey McDonald who murdered Colette, Kimberly and Kristen. Wow, that was amazing. Thank you.

It's so satisfying because the other one was really frustrating because it's the other one was so similar. The sorry, Sam Shepard, Sam Shepard one was so similar, but so mysterious. Yeah. Whereas this one is like, it's parallel, but then it's the worst version. It's almost like this one is from someone who's even more narcissistic because he didn't even come up with a good. There's no plan that's good enough to fucking make it seem like he didn't do it. No, there's nothing. That timeline, and it's, if you read it specifically on that website that I found, let me see here.

The McDonaldCaseFacts.com. If you read it on that by Philip Call callahan it's even more specific and says what blood is where what brain matter is where there's a drop of blood here there's a drop of blood here this blood is so and so's this blood is this person's like it's there's a hundred more like pieces of blood evidence and fiber evidence that have there's no way to explain them away other than the fact that he did it right also it just popped in my head because i'm i can't get over a father stabbing his daughters who are so young but if you're a surgeon that kind of interaction with the human body isn't that weird to you because you do it a lot of times in a life-saving way so like the body is just not

a human body to you yeah well they say that thing about like and then i fucking i'm sorry to insult a bunch of surgeons but that surgeons have a harder they are not oh well this is the thing i'm not and this is going out to colin clank well you started it here and everything here just that um well the brain is different because it's not something you see every day or you know what i mean but like the thing of where it's like if you are able to cut into a human body every single day and not think of it like and not be freaked out by it right you have a um you have a really a brain that's really good at disassociating itself from other people yes is how i'll say it yeah yeah yeah from that any kind of it's a different thing for you yeah it's not it's not a human anymore but that still doesn't

explain the fact that they were his goddamn daughters i don't know that i'm so offended but the thing of like the people who are narcissists who think of their children as a um a part of themselves an extension of themselves so he's not killing his daughter he's he's he's doing what he needs to do right that's it's it's part of him it's his property he could do whatever he wants with it oh fuck and i mean how is it and i'm not a parent clearly but how is it i mean look at my body uh how is it how is it any easier oh i can't i can't say this right i could never kill a child even though i'm not a it's parent how is it easier for someone else to do it it's not that's just that's why he is this anomaly and this freak and this thing that we

want to look at and talk about a child at all little on your own oh i know horrifying jeff mcdonald repeatedly okay um wow that was great uh you need to go to the improv right now too i can't i won't make it plug your show uh what time is it let's can i just say this right now to I can't I won't make it plug your show what time is it let's can I just say this right now oh you oh guy Branham 25 minutes late already sorry fuck we love you somebody posted

a picture of themselves standing outside the improv today I'm gonna make it right now yeah you're gonna blow them away let's just do a quick thing you like this week going to Vegas tomorrow for Vince's

birthday super excited oh nice did I already tell my Vegas story I thought you wouldn't tell magic magic Mike did I tell that though online did I tell it live no you didn't guys

if you are near Las Vegas or you're going anytime soon like me I'll go one thousand percent go see the magic Mike strip show at Hard Rock. It is so good. This is not sarcasm. I'm not being sarcastic.

You can tell because of how deep and resonating my voice is. If I'm being sarcastic, it goes up like this. It's so good. And the dancers are amazing. And the show is really cool and very modern and a woman is the host and it's very much about women getting what they want.

It's really cool. It's very sexy. The dancing is incredible. Can I take Vince? Totally, but yeah, there was like probably five guys. What if I go out there and I'm like, where's Vince? You said he went to the bathroom a half an hour ago. And then he comes out on stage and he's in one of the dancers.

And he's like, happy anniversary or whatever. Does the whole dance. The dancing is so good. And just their acrobats, their gymnasts, their dancers, their musicians. Amazing. It's crazy. That's it. Triple threat.

Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening, you guys. We really appreciate everything you do for us. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.