My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 84 - Harvard 2

Episode Date: August 31, 2017

This week on My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover the case of Theresa Knorr and a selection of modern true crime tales. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca for business. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign

to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. Welcome to My Favourite Murder. Oh. For some reason, professional to me is like a low voice.

Is ASMR videos? Is ASMR videos. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. This Karen, that's Karen Kilgara. That's two times name. And there we are. Guys. Professionals.

This is the third time we've started tonight. Let's see if we can nail this. It got real bad. We thought you guys missed a lot about driving you missed i spoiled a movie go watch the movie christine it's on netflix and i won't that's all i'm going to tell you that's all you're going to tell them and don't look anything up about it just watch it if you dare just watch it cold and don't know what it's about it was everything that i wanted because it was took place in the 80s.

It was all vintage clothing. Amazingness. Rebecca Hall. Rebecca Hall was incredible. Michael C. Hall. This place is such a douche. I love it. All the halls are in it?

All the halls. And they're and it's about the invention of Hall's cough drops. Yep. The halls are the halls of what are they? What was their catchphrase? Deck the halls. Now this is just word association. Should we start again?

No, we're on a roll. Let's undo it. We're leaving tomorrow for Denver. Oh, yes. This will come out next week. So, hey, Denver. Hi, guess what? I can't believe how high you got everybody.

Yeah, so actually we're leaving in two days for Australia. Oh shit. Dude. Are you excited? I made us reservations at a restaurant already. That's right. Did I tell you that already? Yeah, you did.

Um, uh, I am excited. I have to say I'm very angry at the ghost of my mother because as the healthy already as the as the uh the one thing she did harp on in her life was it was always a nursing related thing or health related thing anytime i flew to new york or back east she would say get up and walk around you don't want to die of a blood clot she would say that to me before i got on the plane which is like great thanks thanks thank you for building that into my psyche now it'll never leave i don't you are not supposed to cross your legs on takeoff and landing really for that reason is that true yeah well i don't know if it's fucking true but that's my paranoia that i've read don't cross your legs that's so specific

though because you're cutting off blood circulation. Right, but why take off and landing? Because of the pressure. Okay, okay. You're asking already. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Well, I mean, yeah, all of it is. That makes sense-ish.

It's just a concern that I have. Okay, so your mom told you that. All my pants are too tight, and I'm scared I'm going to die of a blood clot. Okay. Wait, oh, you mean in life? Those are kind of two separate, and then at the same time, the same issue. Well, here's good news. Okay.

Since we're flying business class, there's a bar in business class. So you can walk over and meet me and Vince at the bar in business class getting absolutely shit hammered. Wait, is this like international waters where I can drink on the plane to Australia because it doesn't count as being in America or my actual life? Yes. And then you'll have a blood clot and a seizure on the plane. For real.

And I'll punch everybody. I will punch the pilot and be arrested. Vince keeps making up scenarios like he likes to do. And then George is running around the the business class in her g-string i don't even wear g-string suddenly oh he goes you're debuting your first g-string running around miss can you miss we need you to because you're gonna be so drunk because i'll be so drunk and so excited that we're yeah business class very exciting so i like the idea that i can lay down that really brings me a lot of relief but

it is scary to me um i don't know there's something nerve-wracking about a plane a plane flight that long huh okay well we'll we'll hold your hand okay okay okay we'll be in a pod that's right we'll be in a pod steven you'll be there are you on the same flight as us no i'm not on the same i was gonna send you back drinks constantly. No. Yeah. Well, I'll send them anyways. Then Steven's in his G-string.

Yeah. Out of control. Steven's in my G-string. I'm ready. I got tearaway pants and everything. Yes. Australia style. I mean, I've done that flight before.

I've done the flight to New Zealand. So that one's a little bit longer than Australia. But I feel like I just slept the whole time. I just was like, I can't handle this long of a flight where it's like, we're landing like a two days later. Yeah. But it's going to be intense.

It's very exciting. Yeah. It's definitely gonna be exciting. Oh, I'm going to get it. One of those Evian spray bottles and just spray water on my face the whole time. Ma'am,

can we, ma'am, everyone's complaining. Ma'am, nobody wants you to do that anymore. The person behind you was soaking wet. because you keep doing it over your head. Like this is what rich people do. That's not doing anything.

All right. Okay, let's talk about podcasting. Oh, I want to say for the live shows, since we're on the subject, that I think that we haven't told people that. So we do like sometimes two or three shows in the same city. We do a different murder every night. Oh, yes. So I feel like some people are like, because we did that once.

The first time we did two shows in one night. I believe it was Seattle, right? Yeah. And like you could hear the people in the second show who had been at the first one like audibly groan. Yeah. And then we were both like, oh. It felt bad. Yeah, the air went out of the room we were just

staring at each other like why are we doing this what the fuck is wrong with us like i saw and i could see in the front row like the same two faces i had seen on the show before yeah and i just wanted to apologize so i think we did apologize to a lot of people we you know what we did we stopped doing it therefore that is the living apology that we did. So we don't do the same murder. Ever. Ever. And it's a lot of work. I'm really mad about it.

Like you said, you feel like you have 15 book reports. Yes. It's true. And we have all new really cool merch that you can't get online for sale at the shows. Live show. Like we actually put a lot of work into it. And it's like fucking cool shit. Georgia, if you were single and you had a bumble profile i think that merch would be one of the things you would list under your interests i'm

really you're fucking about merch and have been since day one it's just so fun there's so much cool shit we have a shirt now and i can i it says i'm a and then it said there's one that says Karen one that says Georgia but it's in our signatures yes Vince's idea and it's so fucking cool shit it was Karen's idea you just mouthed it at me god damn it I'm sorry it's okay you just gave me so much credit for like doing merch and then I was like you don't do anything I do sometimes from the privacy of my home well but I don't think it's that great of an idea anymore. What happened? You loved it when Vince did it.

Vince asked me to say that. I would like to say, you know, props to Vince. There are lots of people who contacted us from Los Angeles or grew up here or whatever that needed to say there is a Carvel ice cream shop in Los Angeles out on the west side. Yeah. We didn't know that. I've never heard of it at all in California at all.

Me neither. Fudgy the Whale I've been hearing about forever. Who else contacted us to let us know about Carvel? Carvel. Carvel themselves. Yeah. What did they say? Did you see the tweet?

What did it say, Stephen? Oh, because we were talking about getting a Carvel Fudgy the Whale for 100th show. And they said... They were like, the countdown's on. Party time. It's on us. Or something. Oh, really? We're fucking famous now. To that of me, I was like, that's it. Why is it cake?

An ice cream cake or whatever that we could afford ourselves. Send Steven to get. To me, I'm tweeting at us. I lost my mind. You've changed. You've changed. No, I haven't. Send Steven to get. Yeah. To me, I'm tweeting at us. I lost my mind. You've changed. You've changed. No, I haven't. Send Steven to get. That's the part I changed. I'm excited about a cake, which is nothing new.

Sending to Steven. It's a real celebration. Well, what's funny to me is people talked about it and they were like, I grew up eating it and da, da, da. Well, I looked it up and as far as i could tell the that shop opened in 2008 no that's what it said on the website santa monica yeah oh yeah okay it's the only one in la i think there's one outside of la too i think there was one in like i'm naming a city that i don't like monrovia oh over in monrovia over in monrovia like it's one

of those places where i'm from southern california and i don't that, like, there are these cities that you're like, why would I know where Pacoima is? It's like, well, yeah, is it those, there's a really, there's a mystery spot that's kind of like along the... It's called Inland Empire. Yeah, the mountain range. Vince was like, why don't, how do you not know where these places are? Like Claremont?

Yeah. What's happening over in Claremont? I don't know. Nobody goes there unless... I think they stay there, They're like, fuck LA. We stay here. I've been to a couple of those places and I'm like, oh, it's fucking adorable. Well, Claremont's fancy too. Is it? It has like that college.

They have colleges over there. Oh, you mean Harvard? That's where Harvard is. What if they had Harvard too? That's where... Is there a Harvard too? It's similar to Harvard. It's tons of Ivy. It's just mostly it's a school to teach you how to grow Ivy. They just have a plant. They teach you how to grow Ivy.

Do you know that my mom is a horticulturist and I really want her. Wait, hold on. Yeah. Janet's a horticulturist. Yeah. Is that true? She's going to school for it. She's always been so fucking hardcore into plants. Wow. And then finally at 71, she's like, well, She's going to school for it. She's always been so fucking hardcore into plants. Wow. And then finally at 71, she's like, well, I'm going to go to school to be a horticulturist. That's amazing. Yeah. So she works at like a nursery and I'm dying for her to open her own, her own plant shop. And I just only because I want her to call it little shop of horticulture.

Is that the best thing you've ever heard? Yeah, it really is. No, it no it's not no that one i'm gonna go with okay that one i like that's good yeah it was good thank you that was a sidebar what if she did that and then she gets sued by brick moranis by by the evil dentist steve martin uh that was so pointless please go on yeah i mean seriously it's it's like we're trying to get people to not listen to this podcast um here's the this series i have to talk about because i'm so into it okay the sinner are you watching it with jessica biel oh i'm dying to okay you have to i'm dying i didn't know it was on yet jessica biel bill pullman plays the cop oh

i don't know some john snow looking motherfucker Jessica Biel. Bill Pullman plays the cop. Oh. I don't know. Some Jon Snow looking motherfucker plays her husband. I've never seen him before. Unless it is Jon Snow and he's doing an American accent. I'm not sure what's happening. I don't really know who that is. He's beautiful. And it is a, like, she doesn't know.

You have to see it. I'm dying to. I've seen the commercials and I've gotten, like, chills. It's on demand. Anyway, if you like. I won't. I've seen the commercials and I've gotten like chills. It's on demand. Anyway, if you like, I don't know, if you like a good series, which this is, and it is, it has the crime feel to it, but it also has a very well written and paced drama feel to it. Jessica Biel, who I've never known, I'm too old to be in that seventh heaven generation.

Oh, me too. She is so good. I just hated it. It's, I mean, like, it's a little, you be in that seventh heaven generation oh me too she is so good i just hated it it's i mean like it's a little you're not that you're not that into christianity that's probably what it is actually did you know i am what yeah you're the you're a jew for jesus jew for jesus yeah so anyway if you are looking for something new to watch highly recommend the sinner it's not so i was worried it's gonnany. Like, you know, they keep trying to make these shows that are like True Detective and they're not. Like, I really didn't like The Ozarks.

Did you watch that? I didn't watch it. Because, yeah, everyone loved it. And I'm sorry to, I don't care, but it was, I hated it. And so I was like, oh, I hope this isn't another one of those. Right now, Jason Bateman has a single tear rolling down his cheek. And he's saying, okay, that's what he says in the beginning of every sorry shit I really want like a walk on roll and uh the new rest of development so I shouldn't talk shit on is that really what you want no are you vision boarding right now

spitballing my vision board a walk on roll where you just kind of walk on uh no I totally get it because i think well it's because when it's done right it's the best yeah and when when it's done right you can like lock into a series like that or night of the night of hello yeah i mean i want to watch it 50 times so this i'm thinking of jessica biel and what's his name making out justin timberlake no that's her husband night of a riz Ahmed yeah oh and you're just having personal fantasy yes that's for your other podcast i'm cosplaying okay i'm sorry i'm just going you don't like riz Ahmed because if you like riz Ahmed you wouldn't immediately picture making out with jessica

beale and picture making out myself? Well, yeah. So you're not. He's a good looking human. Okay. I thought you were like, oh, I want his DNA inside me. No, I meant that. And I want to have his baby because he's so handsome. Because he's so beautiful. Because he's so beautiful and I bet the baby would be gorgeous.

You're using him. You're using him. Using his DNA. Oh my God, I'm totally telling him what he's doing. I'm so mad at you. Those are my only topics. Carvel and the sinner. Okay.

And I think we should probably watch some episodes while we eat Carvel ice cream. Okay. Let's watch them right now. While we talk. What was I going to say? I have another thing, but I'm sure it's not important and weird. Take a moment. So stop and listen.

You know how people love awkward, weird pauses in podcasts. They never exist with Stephen's wonderful work. Editing. Editing, am I right? Don't edit this out, Stephen. The last one we actually did was, if I get it before you, Stephen, you're fired. Okay, Weapon Bush. No, you're going first weapon bush no you're going first

okay you're not fired all right 1989 20 year old woman named Terry Knorr comes to the Utah police and she has a story for them she tells them about how eight years before around her mother and two brothers had killed both of her teenage sisters terry's teenage sisters and left their bodies in the mountains near lake tahoe what yeah the fuck yeah tells them this she's kind of like you know like a druggie and she's been arrested for like shoplifting so she's kind of on the outskirts of stuff. So they don't believe her. They're like, you're making shit up. And it's an insane story. So the cops don't believe her.

A therapist and a lawyer that she consults don't believe her story. Yeah. So she's just like, well, fuck it. I don't know what to do then. But then in 1993, she watches an episode of America's Most Wanted, calls the hotline that they give. And she's like, fuck it. Starts bawling. And I guess there's like a woman on the other end of the line. He's like,

Oh my God. And they're like talking. And I'm like, how cool would it have been to be in America's most wanted fucking call center operator. Can you imagine a cool. And then also you would have talked to some of the craziest, you would have heard some of the craziest stories.

I should say it that way. Would you rather be, I know the answer to this, a 911 operator or a call center i know or name anything or anything else in the world name anything else um okay so she calls them and this chick's like whoa that's crazy they talk forever she's like well why don't you go to the police station that this took the precinct that this took place in? Cause she lived in Utah then and they didn't believe her.

So she goes to the Placer County sheriff and tells authorities what happened. And they start to realize that this, these details match with two cold cases that had happened eight years before. And she's giving them details that are that fits so well that they can't not believe her. I so badly right now want to see video of her to see what her behavior or. I can show it to you right now. For real? Cold case file.

Why don't they? But what about her do you think makes her so unbelievable to the authorities? She definitely seems like the kind of person. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for for business or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption.

Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at Interac.ca slash for business. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify.

She's talking about how she would tell anyone who listened this story. And they must have thought that... I could see people being like, This chick just fucking goes to a dive bar. She's a regular. She tells everyone the story. Nobody believes it. It's a crazy story. So does she seem like an alcoholic or like she's a druggie or something?

Yeah, not anymore. Not when she's doing the actual episode. She seems like she's got her shit together. She's actually incredibly believable. Well, and also if you went through that. Yeah. You get to drink. All of it.

You do anything. I mean, like. No, no, no. That's the irritating thing about those kinds of situations you you live through a trauma like that of like half your family killing the other half and then you're supposed to just be like oh no i'm a really reliable witness because i'm totally in reality all the time and it's like she's telling the story and she's not crying because she had to shut her emotions off from all of this so long ago that

they're like you're telling us a story and you're telling it matter-of-factly and we don't believe you like even a therapist who should be able to look past all this stuff yeah and like call the fucking lake tahoe like pd and be like hey anyways well we'll get to her her story and we can talk about that okay um so that yeah there's two never identified Jane does that kind of match and they're like, oh shit, we should look into this. So here's the story. So Terry's mom, her name's Teresa Knorr. She's born in Sacramento, California in 46 at age 16. She leaves home to marry a man five years older than her, who she had met a few months prior. She drops out of high school, they get and she gets pregnant. So on July 6, 1964, that they're

arguing. And the husband tells Teresa that he's leaving her she gets so pissed off. She shoots him in the back with a rifle as he's walking out the door killing him holy shit yeah she's arrested and charged with his murder but she says um she's not guilty because it was self-defense she says she doesn't tell them what happened really um like shooting someone in the back how is that self-defense yeah it doesn't look good no but uh during her trial she's pregnant with her second kid. And she claims that she shot him because he was a violent alcoholic who physically abused her. And she's acquitted of the murder. She gives birth to her second kid, Sheila, 65. And after that birth, she begins drinking super heavily, begins another relationship with a man named Robert Knorr.

That's how she got her last name. She comes pregnant again. They have a third kid named susan and then they have three more children william robert and theresa that they named after her and that's terry that's the girl who came teresa junior teresa junior as you do it's kind of cool yeah you know what i really love the name um virgin, but if I ever have a kid, I can't name her Virginia because my name's Georgia and it would seem like I'm naming her after myself. And this is my son, New Jersey.

Right. It's like, you can't do that. You're just a vain. Um, but if you had a daughter named her, Karen, I would totally do that. I would do that in a heartbeat. I would do that in a heartbeat. Well, there you go. KJ, come on. Eventually, they divorce. She mates another man. They get married.

Two months later, they divorce. And then this is when she starts to go fucking crazy, says all the kids. After her fourth divorce. Fourth divorce. Six kids. She goes goes nuts she starts drinking more and more she puts on a ton of weight and is super pissed off about it um she starts abusing her kids hardcore um terry said when we were kids my mom beat the shit out of us she's like kind of awesome yeah like you want to hang out with her when you see her in cold in this cold case files okay i'll watch it yeah she's just like, well, they beat it.

She beat the ever loving fuck out of like, she's just so matter of fact about it. But like, you can tell she's just like that a friend that's intense and wants to have late night conversations with you about everything. If we hugged my our mom too much, it was like, who are we trying to convince that we loved her? She loved us. On the other hand, if we didn't hug her and kiss her and tell that we loved her she loved us on the other hand if we didn't hug her and kiss her and tell her we loved her then we didn't love her and we were

evil children we were demon seeds that had been given to her by bob nor so she goes crazy and starts to think that her kids are like satanic oh and um she becomes reclusive and disconnected the home phone and wouldn't let the kids go out and or have visitors they moved into a two-bedroom apartment in sacramento can you imagine six children oh no i lived in two-bedroom apartments with two other roommates and we all wanted to kill each other the whole time yeah also it's very hot there sacramento always yeah probably didn't have ac probably didn't that will make you go crazy swamp coolers that's what you told me, right? Yeah, we sit around in chairs right next to the swamp cooler with our armpits up on it.

I've never even heard of swamp coolers. Just be like, let the sun go down. Okay, the neighbor and the neighbor say the apartment was filthy and smelled like urine. So on top of all of that. So for years, Teresa abused and tortured her children. And it sounds horrific, including burning them with cigarettes, throwing knives at them, beating and once grabbed Terry by the arm and held a.22 caliber pistol to her head and told her she was going to kill her.

So chances are that Terry, when she went to finally report this horrible thing, was totally shut down. That's why I was like, she wasn't crying. She was matter of factly telling the story. And it's like, well, yeah, it's seven years old or whatever. She was like, emotions are not going to help you. No, I bet they're, they count against you very badly. Yeah.

With a mother like that. Definitely. So she, yeah, she had no emotional attachment to this story at that point, which is insane. This story reminds me of sylvia lichens that horrible story i covered a while ago yeah and that the mom made would make the other kids beat up one of them no no so she would make them be involved in it so that they were part of it you know and that's probably part of why terry was so fucking shut down is like she kind of had a hand in it and her in her mind thinking she was responsible to even though you're obviously not. Yeah.

So there's like talk of incest. It's brought up one like one or two articles, but they don't the word incest comes up, but they don't go into details at all. Yeah. So I don't really know how truthful that is or to what extent that is. Let's see. Okay, so she primarily started to focus her anger and abuse on the two oldest daughters, Susan and Sheila. And according to Terry, Teresa resented that Susan and Sheila were maturing and becoming attractive young women while she was becoming older and couldn't lose any weight. The Terry kind of explains it like that, but it's clearly so much more deep seated than that.

It's she's a monster and insane person. And a bad alcohol, like a degenerating alcoholic. And yeah, there's probably parts of her brain are going soft because of the drinking. If it's been going on for long enough. Yeah. I learned that on sober house. That can happen to you. Really? How? going on for long enough. Yeah. I learned that on Sober House. That can happen to you.

Really? How? Oh, my God. But. Excuse me while I take a sip of my tea that's got whiskey in it. But that makes perfect sense. And also, I bet you the sons. It's like every movie you've ever seen about an abusive parent where eventually the 16 year old boy turns around and goes i'll beat the shit out of you if you touch me again right the girls can't probably

can't do that exactly yeah and um yeah and the beating the boys you know start beating them up and probably avoid their mother beating the shit out of them because they're part of it you know it's it's really horrific yeah Yeah. Especially if, yeah. So she would, so because of this, she would start administering forced feedings to the girls. Which, can you imagine that kind of fucking torture? Sorry, because they were young and pretty and thin. So she would give them forced feedings. She would make boxes and boxes of, like, mac and cheese.

You know, like, mac and cheese. and put spoonfuls of lard in it. And sit there and make them eat all of it. That sucks. To a point where one of the girls had her front teeth were broken because of the forcing her to eat. Holy shit. Yeah. That's a hard thing to do. To eat like that or to break your teeth really yeah i mean i've never done it yeah it's it's not it's pretty solid oh my god hold on jesus christ all right um so and if you threw up

you had to eat it like force you know when you eat so much you get full and it's so fucking painful and horrible? Can you imagine? That to me is, it's such a telling torture. But also it's so self-serving. Yeah. It's, yeah. It's very fucked up. It's really, really sad.

So, she, so Teresa started to believe that her fourth husband had turned Susan, one of the older daughters, into a witch. So she really received the worst of Teresa's abuse. After one severe beating, Susan ran away from home. And she was picked up by police and placed in a psychiatric hospital. And she told the staff of the abuse at the hands of her mother. And Teresa denies the abuse and told the hospital staff that Susan had mental issues so they didn't investigate and they released Susan back to her mother oh as they do in the 80s fuck yep how old was Susan sorry I think she was a

teenager a lot of the details of like age and that and year and that sort of thing is hazy probably because Terry's the one giving them the info and there's not a lot of oh right you know there's not a lot of info to back it up so it's hard to tell um so of course Susan's super punished for this she gets beatings with while they wear a pair of leather gloves which I don't understand like this part is in a couple of the articles. It makes it more painful or something? I would imagine, right? I don't know.

I thought maybe you would know, like, oh, yeah, leather, whatever. Not slapping gloves, slapping with gloves like a British gentleman would. No, they, like, put leather gloves on and beat her up. I wonder if it, like, delivers a punch heart? I don't know. Someone will tell us.

She also forced her. Okay. So they all had to beat her up. She got handcuffed to the bed and the other children had to stand guard and watch her. Make sure she can get out of there. The handcuffs aren't enough. I know. She makes, she makes her drop out of school.

Everyone drops out of school and they're all in like high school. Oh, none of them got past eighth grade. Oh, no. So this all happened before eighth grade. Oh, fuck. Yeah. That's really young. OK.

Very. And they were homeschooled, of course, based on the Bible. And Teresa had a thing called the Board of Education. And it was a paddling board that said the board of education on it and they did something wrong i've heard of that have you yeah people's parents having that really yep it's a funny abusive pun oh i know it's it's cute it's like makes it man i got i got hit with a wooden spoon as a kid a lot and it is so fucking painful is it really it i know it like it's it's kind of it seemed it's like a cute thing right that like you gotta spank your children and it

everyone acts like it's this is how you teach them how to be a good person no so i get spanked a lot as a kid with both a wooden spoon and a hand it fucking hurts and it's terrifying and the parent is really pissed off while they're doing it so it's not like a teaching a lesson it's you i am so fucking angry at you that's an adult out of control yeah with a child yeah well and also it was very fucking common back then yeah it was it was not only common for people to get uh well abused legitimately like they didn't they still a lot of people don't think that's abuse right but also other people's to get, well, abused. Legitimately like that. They still, a lot of people don't think that's abuse. Right.

But also other people's parents would slap kids. Yeah. Or, you know, spank them. Yeah. It was always this idea of spanking like on the butt was less bad. They call it a smack. I don't know. Why am I oversharing this stuff?

Well, it's very relevant. Yeah. And I'm sure it brought up, this story brought up a lot of shit for you yeah that's fucked up yeah um i hope my mom doesn't sue me defamation shit no one's gonna go to fucking little house of horror cultures or uh yeah damn it should i not okay it's gonna go in my memory anyways might as well say it on the podcast no i'm kidding uh okay so let's get to the fucking shit they're having an argument in 1983 theresa shoots susan in the chest during this argument fuck the bullet gets lodged in her back

theresa makes the sons put her in the bathtub. Good. And Susan gets nursed back to health by her mother. What? Yep. She doesn't die. But it all takes place at home. Yeah.

Good God. It's a hellhole. Yeah. And Terry says that this was the only time that she didn't see her mother hitting Susan. So it was almost like nursing her back to health made her feel motherly and needed. And so she wasn't abusive. Fuck.

Isn't that insane? That's a, where were the fucking neighbors or, I mean, gunshots are taking place. Well, the house, they showed a photo of the house that they moved into that like two bedroom.

It definitely looks secluded. Oh, like in a Sacramento kind of way. I was pict into, the two-bedroom. It definitely looks secluded. Oh. Like in a Sacramento kind of way. I was picturing it as like apartments. No. Yeah. They call it an apartment, but it's not. Okay.

It's like a two-bedroom small place. Okay. And it looks like it's out and wherever. Yeah. But yeah, you know. So, okay. So, she's nurs nurse back to health she survives and in 1984 she works up the courage and tells her mom she wants to move out and Teresa says okay you can move out but you have to let me remove the bullet from your back because if you tell on me that can be used as evidence oh my god this is horrific right it's

unbelievable i know i was like maybe this week i'll do like an old-timey murder that's like a little more nope and then i was like oh i found this and i have to do it it's incredible it's insane um so theresa susan agrees they put her down on the kitchen floor. And Terry says, I was basically the nurse. I had to administer all these things. But either the brother or Teresa took the bullet out. I can't really tell. But they fed her a ton of liquor and malarial capsules.

Do you know what those are? I imagine they're a sleeping pill. Tell she's out cold. and then take the bullet out. Okay. And flush it down the toilet. All right. Infection sets in. Susan's skin turns yellow from jaundice.

They handcuff her to the kitchen table and she lays dying on the floor. This gets really horrific. She, Teresa tells her kids that Susan was possessed by Satan. And the only way to purge the demon was with fire. Oh no. She makes a Robert and Bill,

the brothers drive Susan to Sierra, Nevada interstate 80. Do you know where that is? Um, so it's like out in the wilderness, right? Yes. Well, the 80, drive Susan to Sierra Nevada Interstate 80. Do you know where that is? So it's like out in the wilderness, right? Yes. Well, the 80, if from Sacramento you take the 80, then you're I think, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure it's on the way up to the mountains. If I'm not wrong, it's like toward Roosevelt. Okay. Alright. They had packed all of her possessions into If I'm not wrong. That sounds right. It's like toward Roosevelt. Okay. All right. They had packed all of her possessions into trash bags. They pull over.

They put the trash bags down. They put Susan on top of them. Then they poured gasoline and they lit her on fire. Is she still alive? Yeah. I wasn't going to say anything. Well, you have to tell the whole story. I know. You have to tell the whole story i know there's that's you have to tell i know and i think she was like to me nothing is worse than what those are the

those for some reason are the worst to me is being lit on fire by your fucking family yeah but dying of fire to me is specifically horrific yeah i can't that's like the one i can't really think about and i'm doing a story about it um they've and just a warning on cold case files they show her oh they show the fucking crime scene photos so um they she's found they put the fire out they have no idea who she is they um they think that okay they have no idea who she is. They think that, okay, they have no idea who she is. They make a drawing of what they think that she looks like. Fucking case goes cold. They have no idea who she is. And back at home, so it's like a year later, late spring of 85.

Teresa starts to make her 20, now 20 year old daughter Sheila work as a sex worker. She like pimps her out. And she's earning hundreds of dollars a day. And Teresa almost seems like she's proud of her. And she eased up on the daily meetings. And Sheila's actually out to come and go as she pleases which is rare and then

Teresa accuses Sheila of giving Teresa an STD through the toilet seat and so she beats her, hog ties her and locks her in a like tiny broom closet.

It's hot as fuck. There's no ventilation. And she forbids her other children to give Sheila food or water or to open the closet door. And Terry, one day when she was gone, disobeys her and gives her a beer. Which is almost like, you can imagine that's probably all there was in the house. Yes. And she's this kid, this teenage kid, who doesn't know what else to do. Here's a beer which is almost like you can imagine that's probably all there was in the house yes and she's this like kid this teenage kid who's like doesn't know what else to do here's a beer um so she i guess theresa just said she wanted sheila to confess um but either way she's going

to get beaten and so she does confess she doesn't believe her. And so she eventually dies in the closet. Oh, my God. Yeah. So three days later, she dies of dehydration and starvation. They leave her body in the closet for an additional three days before even discovering that she's dead. So the mom and son puts the body, her body in a cardboard box, tapes tapes it shut and they take it to the mountains where they dumped it near truckie the truckie airport um and then they get back to the apartment and realize the smell hasn't gone away and so theresa orders terry to set the apartment on fire

this woman is a fucking lunatic guess what she's still alive what she's still alive. What? She's still alive. Teresa. Oh, mom. The lunatic mom. Oh, to this day? Yeah. Oh, sorry. For a second, I was like, that was like a crazy twist. No, no, no.

There's sadly no crazy twist. Okay, okay. But the dying and dead is done at this point. I mean, this is pure. How have you not heard about this? I know. When you said the name, it sounds familiar. How have you not heard about this i know when you said the name it sounds familiar how have you not heard about this i know isn't that crazy it sounds super familiar but um yeah but i didn't i i don't know these details at all but this might be when your parents like

were like we're not watching the news for a while yeah but 85 that i would have like if that if i heard that on the news then i would have been like but here's the thing about 85 is that those are just when the bodies were found two separate bodies in oh and there were cold cases and there were cold cases and they weren't even linked okay I think that the investigator on cold case files was like yeah we talked to them or like this is weird but they died in totally different ways but there were two young teenagers but they didn't put it together yeah so you wouldn't have heard much okay that's right this she didn't come forward until 93 but you still you were in sacramento then stop it i couldn't have known oh i'm not blaming you i'm just talking about how fucking weird it is that

this is like one of the most insane cases i've ever heard of child abuse and we've never heard of it right i i moved i I was in San Francisco by 93, which just makes me want, that made me want to tell the story more because it's like, no, I can see it. How the fuck? Because it's this weird,

Oh my God. Like that idea of the crazy alcoholic mom that like keeps everybody in the house. Like no one's in school and it's just mayhem. An ugly, sad place of constant torture and someone that just shoots people like what i mean kills her own it's just so crazy that that's one person against five and she is so manipulative and insane and dangerous and scary that she's able

to tell her sons to go kill their sister and they obey it's their mother yeah it's their primary it's horrible yeah and it's all they've ever known yeah um all right so she tells her to light the apartment on fire in the middle of the night she sprinkles lighter fluid around the apartment and lights it on fire but it didn't spread because i think they're because there were neighbors so apparently there were neighbors who knows um so the fire department responds there's not a lot of damage um sheila's body is discovered a few hours after it had been disposed of in the box by fucking poor fishermen jesus can you imagine and they show that too on cold case files like i was so surprised and i was sitting here with vince and he looks up right when that happens and i was like don't look don't look

so i was like you're gonna think i said don't look, don't look. So, I was like, you're going to think. I said, don't look because you're going to think I'm fucking insane that I'm watching this. He doesn't want to. He, like, went in the other room. He also knows you're insane. Yes. Just quick FYI. He does.

You're right. He likes wrestling. Exactly. Everybody's got their thing. Yeah, right. Okay. They, again, classified as a Jane Doe um after leaving the Sacramento apartment they go they all go into hiding they finally it that the lighting on fire

is finally their ticket out of there and they all break up and spread around and she and Terry gets to escape her mom at 16. The mom relocates to Vegas with one of the sons, Robert Knorr. And in 91, he's arrested after fatally shooting a bartender in Las Vegas during an attempted robbery. I mean, these are like, these are born and bred criminals that are like, now go out into the world to just reign free. Yeah. Good luck with having any kind of normal life. Yeah. Any you have you're going to start shooting people yeah terry i mean god bless her she seems she seems like she was able to straighten her fucking life out wow it's unbelievable that she's able i mean watch it just to like hear her talk i can't wait um so they moved back then

they moved so he goes to prison for 16 years mom relocates to salt lake city where she becomes a caretaker an elderly woman's caretaker this dude hires her to take care of his mother ailing mother lives there and when she okay let me keep telling this okay um this is gonna that's gonna turn out bad right no oh okay no it turns out like it turns out and uh we had no idea you know what i mean so no no one no one else gets killed okay good um so terry takes sheila's identification card to pass herself off as an illegal adult like she, you do what you got to do. So when she finally goes to share her story and they finally believe her

because of her detailed descriptions down to the chipped teeth of the Jane Doe they had because the box that Sheila was put in, they knew was, that was the only piece of evidence they had. It was a box from a movie theater of like popcorn buckets. So they went to every movie theater

and was like, is this your brand? Is this your box? And it wasn't. And it turns out that Robert worked at a movie theater when they, and had taken the box from movie theater. So even that corroborated everything, just these details, everything matched. So the detectives also took out the

subfloor that had been stained with Sheila's body to test it and um uh in November 93 Teresa Norris arrested at her home in Salt Lake City where she fucking lives with his elderly mother and the son who had hired her was like we had had no idea. She was a sweet old lady. Yeah, she did some weird shit. And she said she liked taking care of my mom because she had, or she liked, she was like really motherly to my grandkid, to my children who were daughters because she said she had always wanted a daughter of her own and only had sons. Oh my God. So he didn't believe it for a long time.

Oh, okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because like you left, you're like the guilt over leaving your mom with a fucking murderer. Yeah. Gotta be pretty high.

Yeah. You gotta turn around and face that. Ooh, ooh, ooh. You're not a good judge of character, it turns out. It turns out you don't know your shit.

You thought you were a yank. Engage your gut. Yeah. Listen to your heart. Eyes open, please. Eyes open. Heart. Make a reference.

See, these days we have LinkedIn. That would never happen. Okay,'s she's charged with two counts of murder two counts of conspiracy to commit murder two special circumstance charges multiple murder and multiple murder by torture william is sentenced to probation to under and to undergo therapy therapy for participating in Sheila's murder. Um, and in exchange for his testimony, the cross,

the prosecution dropped all charges against Robert, um, save for one count of being an accessory after the fact in Sheila's murder. And also the mom was like, I'll plead guilty. Teresa was like, I'll plead guilty. If you let my sons off.

Really? Okay. Here's where I have a hard time with. Do the sons deserve anything i mean at what point in their age i'm not i feel like i am not qualified to debate that in any way except i just want to bring it up because i can't give a judgment either way well my um like my first reaction is they don't because they were raised to kill people this woman they had no choice it was out of fear at that point and mind control that they did it yes and just

the taut reactions of this is normal living yeah but when you say that then you basically there's so many murderers that you can say that about right because they had equally nightmarish childhood so they could actually yeah exactly it's nothing is black and white right so like yeah ted bundy was like abused and sexually molested but he still held responsible for what he did it's almost like well at the point where they're 18 and on then are they responsible no no i think for ted bundy i think it's like once you've killed your 12th woman it's on you okay no i mean i'm saying these boys i don't think they would have lived these lives definitely not

they wouldn't have killed their own sisters if their mother didn't make them participate definitely i would guess that i mean that's like to me it's like the beatings and that sort of thing no they're not held responsible for that but the murder is the same it's all the beatings and that sort of thing no they're not held responsible for that but the murder is the same it's all the mother's doing i know and i know people are gonna argue with me and be like you're blank you're victim blaming for sure right which i understand and i'm not saying i'm right i'm just like how what what point do we at what point is it is there a period at the end of their well that's what judges and juries and all those the people that look at all the information that's the point definitely where they go okay

this is a person that uh had you know was forced into this horrible life an entire lifestyle is this person that liked it this is a person that didn't just kill sisters but then went on and attacked people in the neighborhood or like and wanted and it's not yeah so theresa pleads guilty pleads guilty because of that and um on the condition also that she spared the death penalty just like fuck you now it can be like period about fuck you uh on in october 95 she's sentenced to two consecutive life sentences She's incarcerated In California Institute for Women

In Chino So she's fucking In Is that the Inland Empire? She's in the fucking Chino? Yeah I don't know

Might be She'll be eligible You should go there You should go there now And Go to Ivy League School She'll be eligible

For parole in 2027 If she lives to see it she'll be 80 years old oh shit she's still alive i wonder if she's drinking inside in the clink some fucking how some wine some toilet wine would you take a sip of that if someone made you not made you but if you were like dared no i don't really respond to daring that's jam. Yeah, you don't seem like a person who would be challenged. No. No. I mean, are you saying, would I even be curious about the experience of what toilet wine tastes like?

I guess the word toilet is hard now. It ruins it. I mean, would I have eaten... Prison wine in a bucket, maybe. Prison wine in a bucket that's quite clean. The first time ever the bucket was used was for the prison wine. Yeah, which I'm sure they have access to clean buckets. Then yes, yeah, I'm sure there's a whole program set up.

But I would want to taste what non-toilet created prison wine tasted like. I agree. That would be fascinating. I can't imagine there's a ton of prisoners who are like, yes to toilet wine themselves. I'm an alcoholic, but I won't fucking drink. I'm going to say no to toilet wine. Who knows?

Who knows? I mean, you got to do what you got to do. Fuck Teresa Knorr. God, that was crazy. She's awful. Awful. I don't, yeah. So, yeah. Watch the cold case file i will and did you

know they're all they're all streaming on you can get them on demand somewhere not on demand but like on your dvr no wait on like if you have roku or apple or whatever yeah um every single one is on except for that one. Are you serious? So I had to go to YouTube to find it. It's on YouTube. It's called Mommy something. Look up Cold Case Files Mommy.

It's episode, season two, episode 24. It's so dark. It makes it extra dark when you're from the place where you hear the story, because you can picture. I can picture her house dress. I kept asking, like, in it, I was like, I'm going to ask Karen where this is. This is insane. Yeah. I can picture her house dress, like kept asking, like, me in it. I was like, I'm going to ask Karen where this is. This is insane. Yeah. I can picture her house dress, like a flowery nurse's, like, big.

Dirty. Dirty. Kind of like country powder blue. Yeah, slipper, like little tiny flowers on it. Yeah. Slippers. Essentially what I fucking wear every day. Let's be honest.

Oh, man, it's dark. She bought it at pick and save it's dark it's dark there's bad vibes well these are just um because people very often tweet us have you read this have you seen this and there there are things that are happening modern day right and they're often like the craziest or the most fascinating kind of true crime of today and uh we don't always talk about it which i know it's like it's what a lot of people are in it yeah and i i wish we could do there's so many of those i'm like this is insane but there's no details yeah exactly it's a it's a breaking story right so what i did was i started my this week's murder um didn't i wasn't making any good uh kind of like strategic decisions as i was watching the case because i stumbled upon a bbc show that it was a reddit it was a reddit link

to a bbc show called bbc horizons that i think has been on in England for a long time. This is what it looked like because there's like each, each one had different opening credits that one looked like 1978 and one looked like the nineties. It's like they're, they're unsolved mysteries. It's been on forever. And so it was like the mystery of blank. So like there's a thing in Florida called the Florida circle. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but I was watching half of that when I was like, stop watching TV. Because it was like. Oh, my God.

Can you get it online? I mean, where can you get it? You can. It's just put into. See, here's the problem. It was a Reddit link. So I was watching off of that. And then suddenly the title started turning Russian writing.

And then at one point, I tried to click off and then it turned into like a Russian looking Facebook page. Uh oh. Did you get hacked? It said something like the name of it. It wasn't Facebook. It was like OK Summertime. And I was like, oh, I should throw this computer away now. Absolutely. They're watching you. But

I only have half my script done. So I have to keep it for a little while. But I mean like, yeah, I made a terrible, you don't click links on Reddit, but I did. Yes, you do. Well, anyway. That's a fun part of Reddit. It makes it exciting. So, so anyway, the story that I was watching and going to do isn't really a murder.

going to do isn't really a murder like it's a lot of it's a fascinating story about a mummy that they found in um uh in iran that or the seller was in iran that had it and and it turned out it was from pakistan and that was it was like it was very newsworthy because the only mummies have ever been from egypt egypt is the only place that did ancient mummification ritual so this one might have been stolen so well they were they didn't know and it was like look kind of weird and different and then you see it it's like it's it drew me in so quickly and then it was like but but it was, it turned into a like ancient Persia fucking Xerxes. Like it was the, the, the reading, the cuneiform writing on it said that it was the daughter of Xerxes, um, who was the ruler of the, of the Persian empire. I mean, it's all this shit.

I have no idea what I'm actually saying right now. You sound really smart. The BBC can do that for you. Yeah, they can what I'm actually saying right now. You sound really smart. The BBC can do that for you. Yeah, they can. I'm going to watch this. Just watch one special. Anyway, it turned out. So this woman who's actually, I mean, I guess I'll just, I wasn't going to talk about this one at all.

But it's really cool because the woman who started looking into it was a scientist um named asma abraham and she taught herself how to read cuneiform so that she could figure out what it said on the on the stone coffin part oh my god and then that's how she figured out it said i'm the daughter of xerxes so it was this persian princess from the ancient persian empire and but then she was like looking at all the details, whatever. She's sending things off to experts all around the world. So they have the cuneiform expert in London. They send the mat that's underneath the actual mummy off to get carbon dated. They do all these things, right?

And then there is a scientist that's in, um, I think it said he was the leading archaeologist in Iran. And he was, he's the one that came out and said, we don't have mummies in Iran and they don't have them in Pakistan. They are only from Egypt. Therefore, if this is a Persian princess, then that changes like history books. That means that there must be, it was just this whole thing, right? Well, then as the information starts to come back and this Dr. Ibrahim is investigating everything,

she's starting to notice little, like, quirky things are standing out. Insistencies? Yeah. So the cuneiform looks weird and she you know that's why she sent it to the guy in london that was the expert um and she uh you know there's um like that little differences in in the mummification process or whatever and eventually they come to find out they send it off to get x-rayed because they were like well in the egyptian mummification process they empty out the body of the internal organs they dry out

the inner body um they put a drying agent in it they put the heart back in because the heart is where the heart is where your brain they believed your brain was so when cram that brain out you got to have that brain they pull your actual brain out through your nose right yep they stick a thing in there and they basically mix your brain around until it's jelly and your brain runs out your nose no no no no no no yes and but you still have your heart, which is your real brain, which I thought was very beautiful. Yeah. And so when they x-rayed it, the heart was in there. It was no, there were no internal organs. It was all the things the brain was, you know, whatever.

But they start to notice like the Egyptians, it was very, it's like surgical precision. So the incision that they would make to take the inner organs out was three inches. This one was eight on this body so it's a novice right they um the egyptians would go up the nose to do that mixing thing with the brain they on this mummy had broken all these bones up in the palate so they had done it's not the way yeah because this was like a sacred ritual so they don't just like fuck it up right especially if it was like a sacred ritual. So they don't just like fuck it up. Especially if it's like a princess. Especially.

Yes, exactly. Especially Xerxes' daughter. He was, from according to that one movie, he was humongous. Okay, so. Then Dr. Asma Ibrahim finds pencil lines on the outer wooden box. Hmm. Pencils were invented 250 years ago. Or 300 years ago, I think she said.

Or they said. Lead pencils. Yeah, yeah. So they're like, this is a total, this is bullshit. Then they get the carbon dating from the mat that was underneath the mummy back. And it was made 50 years ago. So they're like, what the fuck is this? So then they get a doctor to cut it open.

Oh, also they had taken CT scans so they could see inside like the x-ray. The x-ray shows you like through, but then the ct scans it's like if you got cut all the way down they can see each individual slice yes and that's how they discovered that the body that had been mummified the spine was broken in two places at the neck and at the lower back and oh my god oh my god yeah so like, okay, this is not this Persian princess. Uh, what was her name? Like Rodrigo or something really hard to pronounce. Um, and they open up the mummy and you can see it on this show.

They show it. So fucking cool. My toes are curling. Cut it open. This doctor, um, they have to saw it open, like with a bone saw. Because it's mummified well because the outer um cloth that the mummy is wrapped in so the you're bandaged like a halloween mummy inside your arms are crossed over your chest that's how you know it's royalty huh and then and then they

wrap the whole body in a resin saturated cloth right so it hardens and that's what makes it hard got it so to cut that open they pull it apart and it had gray hair huh and it was a woman and um they actually made a computer generated image of what her face might look like based on so cool and they do that i know right based on the skull and then based on the area that they said it was found, which was near the Afghan border. They're like, women of this age usually look like this. Yeah, yeah. So now they have a murder case on their hands.

Shut your fucking... So when is she from? What's that? When is she from? She had only died... So they mummified the body. When they discovered all this this they backdated it was like she'd only died four years ago or something and so someone went and got their fucking their mat from their back porch yep uh

wait let me see i don't know why that's just such a weird part to me where it's like, well, we got to put her on a mat. Yeah. Why they didn't. Oh, she died in 1996. Holy. That's what they found out.

Um, but I can't remember. I, I don't have it where that compares to what, but basically what happened is in the mummification process, they had to like, they had to collect all their, they had to make their plan they had to assemble

the team of stonemasons and these forgers and all these people that would be able to make this mummy look so realistic because when you see it it's actually really beautiful and cool looking there's like they have this gold it's like a crown of cypress trees as her crown wow and then this face mask that they basically made it's based on a different mummy very early mummy's face mask so it doesn't look like king tut yeah it's much more like handmade looking it's really cool um they basically just had these perfect forgers and then just made these little tiny people were in on it a lot of people were in on it and then they don't know if they robbed a grave

to get like the freshest body or if they killed somebody. But the person who died, died violently. Which is why they think it's a murder case. I am in shock right now. Isn't it nuts? That is the craziest story. Here's the other thing. Since this

time, two more quote unquote Persian mum no have been offered on the black market for six million dollars each when this one showed up first and it was sell a mummy what's that you can sell a mummy on the black market the black market the antiquities market the black market for antiquities you can do anything you want because it's just people robbing places yeah and then selling these that's why they're great that's why there are tomb robbers and shit right but but this mummy was estimated they they were getting prices up to a billion dollars because this mummy was so

groundbreaking of like oh my god there's never been a persian mummy before this well i wonder if they'd even buy it if they knew it was a fake because it's just done so well well but it but it's done so well but you've there's a murdered body inside of it yeah yeah but do people who buy black market mummies give a shit yeah i think they'd still want it to be a legit mummy because also then you're spending all that money they're spending that money for the history of it they want that like this is from the sands of time or whatever someone would take a fucking fat discount to be like no this is just really well done forge or re but of a dead person hey man they're like yeah give me some coke while you're while you're in this some heroin oh because they're just into bad stuff because they're black market i think of black market buyers and sellers as like scary spies like they're not it's not they're not

historians not in the least you know what you you just provided me my transition now i'm going to tell you this next story okay did you hear about this one the The 20-year-old British model who, she went to Milan because she believed that she had gotten a modeling job. And she did and it went great. Yeah, it went great. And now she is Carla Devigny. I don't know how to say her name. No. She had an agent that sent her, and the agent, whose name is Phil Green,

said that this was a recognized studio in the city center of Milan. So he didn't think he was sending her to some fly-by-night thing. Plus, you're like, someone's paying to send me to Milan. This has to be legit. Yeah. When she gets there, a man grabs her by the neck. One man grabs her by the neck. One man grabs her by the neck. Another one injects her with a dose of anesthetic of ketamine.

So much of it that it knocks her to the ground. Then she gets put into a suitcase. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not small places, please. Yes. Small places? Yep. And then they drive her aroundinding unpaved roads for more than two hours bound hand and foot with tape across her mouth oh my god she's taken to a rural house

in northern italy and she's kept handcuffed to a wooden dresser and um then she is put on sale online on the dark web. Dude, this dark web. The dark web. She's put on sale, but then at the same time, a ransom demand gets sent to her agent for $300,000. Okay, so he knows at this point. For how much? $300,000. That's not a lot of money.

Right? I mean, yeah, you'd think if you're gonna do a crime like this you might want to what if he's like okay just shoot for the moon yeah uh so she when she's stuck there she tells him she has a child the person the man that's there. Um, and so then he puts her back in the suitcase. I don't know. Yeah, I think he does and drives her to the British embassy in Milan. Why is this funny?

He drops her off at the British embassy. She has a kid. Yeah. And he reported that, um, empathy as a kid yeah and he reported that um killing mothers was against the rules of the shadowy criminal organization that this guy belonged to what they end up arresting him uh he is wait they so wait they were gonna sell her for sex or to be murdered like this was someone they were selling to get killed i don't do they sell people just to be killed probably yeah i

don't know i don't either i'm i'm sure for sex or to be a sex slave or to be trafficked right have some terrible thing happening you know i mean it's so sad because if we're hearing about this story there's a million others that didn't end up right how many people that don't have agents that don't have anybody that are like oh somebody thinks i'm a model or money to pay ransom yeah oh my god um so the guy's name is lucas powell herba and he's from uh he's a polish citizen with british residency and he's the one that drops her off and then he later gets arrested. Um, and, uh, they also were holding her passport.

So she couldn't leave the country until she gave evidence at her pre-trial hearing. Because when she, when she told the story, they didn't believe her. Are you fucking, they wouldn't let her go home. Right. Cause they were like,

we have to see what's going on. We don't understand what this is all about. And then it turned out that her her agent the the cops like everybody were and then the guy that did it were all telling the exact same story and they were like okay it really happened i apologized say you're sorry that's what's important milan say you're sorry okay oh that's awful are you ready for the next one absolutely and steven tell me how tell me when i go too long because i because it might be too long okay um four hours later this for real so this is my favorite because for like in the early 2000s there was a viral video that like an apartment website put out that had a girl.

It looked like night vision video. And it was a girl coming out of a cupboard in an apartment in New York. And it was this story, quote unquote, was that she was living in the apartment and they didn't know. Yeah. Well, that was all viral. That was all fake. was all fake oh it was yeah i didn't know that because she kind of had like long black um like it looked like a ring girl hair japanese horror film totally and she crawled out in the scariest way yeah um and i was lit when we found that video and didn't know we watched it at work 50 times we would just stand around

screaming and watching it was amazing i mean it was an amazing piece of uh literature fiction yeah well here's a story i found um this happened in uh pittsburgh jerome kennedy decided to stall install a camera inside his attic after he was hearing noises coming from the ceiling of his bedroom. No. That's according to police. He called them a few days earlier because he heard someone up there at night, but they didn't find anything.

So he decided to put cameras in his attic. What would you do? To see what was going on. I would leave. Everything. I certainly wouldn't take the time to put cameras in, but he did it. And when he gets the footage back, the footage shows his neighbor, Robert Havrilla, crawling through the attic. So they live in like a condo thing where they share a wall.

And he has gone up into his attic and then crawled over into this guy's side. And he's carrying, in the video you can see him. It's so fucking creepy. How am I not seeing this? He's carrying a drill and a light. And then he just lies on the vent that overlooks Kennedy's bed and his daughter's crib. For about, what does that say? For about 30 minutes.

So he just looks through the vent for half an hour. You're just being watched sleeping. Yeah. What if he just was like, I just, I don't relax. It's me. A nice, a sweet baby. A little sweet baby. I like to see other people's lives.

I'm not perverted. Not even when they're awake. I just want to see how happy they look when they're sleeping. The man who did it's attorney, who got caught on video, told the Washington Post That he has no criminal record What so ever And they're making this seem like a negative situation

But it's really not There are some things that haven't been said That will clear everything up eventually So what are some of those things Like you're mentally ill He was installing A mobile For that baby But he just wanted to make sure oh can you imagine walking into your but your daughter's bedroom in the morning and there's just some a mobile

that's not that you didn't put there a surprise mobile with the scary mobile mobile it's just all fucking skeletons and nightmares it's just got nightmares i mean i just god bless this that's my favorite like that's my favorite did he go to jail do they still live next door i mean he didn't do anything wrong according to his lawyer why would he go to jail he didn't it's a super positive situation it's not negative it's positive to be crawling in the attic with a drill with a drill uh okay here's the last one this is insane and awful um and you probably heard about it because a bunch of people sent us this one uh from the bbc news oh that sorry that was from the washington post the story of the man in the attic was from the washington post okay um and the first the mummies from BBC Horizon, the Horizon series, which.

My new favorite show. It is. There's stuff on it was so cool. I want to watch all of them. It reminds me of, Stephen, what was that book you got us? The Lifetime. Oh, yeah. Mysteries of the Unexplained.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From the, like with the cover,, the leather covers and the different things. Time Life Series. Time Life Series. That's what it reminds me of. Can I tell you my new favorite show?

Yeah. Really quickly. I meant to tell you about this earlier. It's called Suddenly Rich. It's, like, on TLC. And it's just people who suddenly, like, get a windfall. And it's, like, these... And how they can't handle it.

How happy it makes their lives. It's just, like, if you are reading about murder and you need a positive thing oh it's like one guy who like you had a throw at a basketball game all these like shots and if you did you won all this money and he was like a poor kid from like south america who had come on a scholarship and had to work his ass off and then like suddenly won this money and this woman who found like a painting in the trash in new york and it was worth a million like it's just like super cool show that was the best dude finding like did you see the documentary about the lady that who found the Jackson Pollock painting yeah no I didn't see it but it was similar to that where it's just like famous artist and it turned out it was stolen and all this crazy shit yes that's cool so suddenly

rich suddenly rich when you need a fucking break it's not about my uncle Rich. Okay. Okay, so this one is fucked up. It happened in Denmark. A respected freelance journalist named Kim Wall, who was researching a feature about a man named Peter Madsen who had built his own private 40-ton submarine. What? Called the UC-3 Nautilus. Yes.

Oh, I did hear this one um he built that through crowdfunding in 2008 and she went down to meet him to take a tour it doesn't it's not supposed to like hold people but like you they can show she was writing about it according yes this is like he was doing like she was doing like a human interest piece that's what's so troubling to me about this one is that like i wouldn't be like don't go alone it's like you're a journalist and you're writing a piece about this person a person who runs two companies yeah and is a very relatively public figure in his country for as much as we're like be careful don't trust anyone it's like but yeah there's certain situations where you'd be like well of course it's fine it's her job but okay so um so she meets him there

she's last seen alive august 10th as she departs with mr madsen on his self-made water vessel underwater vessel um she met around seven o'clock on thursday um in the harbor area of copenhagen and she got on the submarine the last picture of the two of them were in the subs conning tower um uh and taken by a man from a cruise ship so they saw the little submarine out there or taking pictures of them i didn't know that there's a photo of them of the two of them on the subway. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like right before sunset. And I mean, this is all on the internet.

You can see all these pictures. But then Kim Wall's partner reported her missing the next morning. I believe it was 2.30 in the morning when she never came back from this trip. So, uh, initially, um, Peter Madsen, uh, told everybody that he had dropped,

um, Ms. Wall off after dark, um, that night at the Halvandet restaurant on the Northern tip of Rift, um, very close to where they originally met. Did you buy that? It was good. Hey guys, I dropped her off. There's people in Denmark laughing

so hard. I know. Do people in Denmark listen to this? I dropped her off at a restaurant. No big deal. The restaurant owner, Bo Peterson, said that the area is very covered by CCTV and he handed the video footage to the police. Soon after that, Peter Madsen changed his story. Then he said that there was an accident on the submarine while they were on it and he had to bury her body at sea. What the? That alone, like if that were true, is insane. If that were true, the first story wouldn't have happened right because you

would immediately pull out and be like i'm so traumatized this horrible thing happened yeah um 10 days later a headless torso that had been weighted down with metal is found in the waters off of denmark and is identified as kim oh no um they believe that Mr. Madsen deliberately sank his 40-ton submarine hours after the search for her began. Oh, my God. So here's the bad part. The torso, the arms, legs, and head were removed from the body as a result of deliberate cutting. And which means that he did that to her in his submarine, which probably means he planned to do it because how,

what would you have that would cut a person on a submarine? Why would you have that handy? I mean, I don't know. I don't know i don't know submarines maybe there's an answer but like did you bring a hacksaw onto your submarine yeah um the lead investor investigator also revealed that the blood found on the sunken submarine was confirmed as as kim walls um mr mattson's lawyer said he does not confess to anything and pleads not guilty it wasn't a negative thing yeah it's the dna match doesn't change my client's explanation that an

accident happened yeah um and okay so what happened right this guy is um the skipper and designer of the uc3 nautilus a privately owned submarine um and reports describe him as a hobby engineer it's not clear what his background or training is um while building uh his own crowdfunded submarine which is insane it's like you guys there's charities that you can crowd you can give money to Give me money to make my own adult boy submarine. So he gets it built. Then he has volunteers and people working on it with him. But then in 2008, he moves on to what they call a more lofty ambition, space exploration. So he's like Denmarkmark's elon musk

essentially um so he's now running the rocket madison space laboratory uh which is also a laboratory what what could we call it a laboratory a laboratory filled with aluminium and that's also funded by donations the aim is to launch a rocket from a floating platform in the Baltic and send a person into outer space. Again, so many hungry children. I mean, do we need to keep giving money to fucking? I mean, it really doesn't seem like it. So it turned out that he was,

they were talking about that. He had a dispute with the group of volunteers that were maintaining the sub and he left them this message on a website. Um, you may think that a curse is lying on the Nautilus. That curse is me. Um, there will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist. What a creep. um, there will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist. Wow. What a creep.

And seemingly he's talking about like these volunteers and some kind of fight that they all got in together or something. Yeah. Uh, yeah. That is so crazy. Isn't that awful? Yeah.

And creepy. And the weird thing is like, if that were why why take off her head and limbs like clearly you're hiding something yes shit oh i didn't think of a positive thing this week oh yeah you have to think of one okay you know what i'm really excited for our tour no not fair okay that's not a thing that happened to you you're right that's the future well i was gonna say i went bowling at this tiny bowling alley in montrose and it did i show you that picture it's the cutest it's like almost a third of the size of a normal bowling alley and it's

totally from like the early 60s maybe late 50s oh. Oh my God. And it's not all modernized? No, no, not at all. And it's like, it was Dave Anthony's birthday. Yeah. And it was super fun, but they, like you can rent it out for private parties. Oh my God. Where's Montrose? It's the one that's kind of up, it's once again up in the hills.

It's kind of by Altadena. Okay. Like basically if you just drive right above Glendale. Sure, sure, sure. Oh, okay. And it was just perfect. It was like my favorite party because there was chatting and lots of people that I love. And there wasn't like crazy loud music so you can't talk to anyone like at a bar.

No. And also people would bowl, but then they would stop bowling because, you know, you only want to do that for a certain amount of time. I love bowling alley parties. Yeah. That's a great idea. I think I might have a party there. I'm going. Can I come? You're like, actually, no, you only want to do that for a certain amount of time. I love bowling alley parties. Yeah. That's a great idea. I think I might have a party there. I'm going.

Can I come? You're like, actually, no, you're not. I just invited myself to. Steven told me not to invite you. I just invited myself to your party. You're automatically invited to the party. Yay. Yeah.

I'm automatically coming, so it's a positive. Okay, good. My dad came over today and helped me with my finances. Oh, how was that? It was good he didn't yell there was a moment where i could hear the tension in his voice i also don't think he knew what he was doing right i think in the long run all it was was someone was sitting there with me saying you have to do this now and there were 14 times where if i had been on my own

you would have just walked away there were 14 times like i'm just gonna do this later i'm just not gonna do this and he was like well let's just do this and then we can do that and i like ended up doing it that's great and it worked that's great yeah and it just made me it made me happy that it was a huge weight lifted off your shoulders huge weight but also like kind of gave me that like oh dad yeah that's what dad's are for that's right he didn't know what he was doing he was like i was gonna be a cpa and a CPA and something and a money lawyer with our tax lawyer. And I dropped out. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing here?

I thought you knew what you were doing. He's like, I'm not really good with numbers. I thought you were. Did he really say that? Yes. That's so funny. But he ended up just sitting there while I did a bunch of things. And I had someone to, I was like, well, this number is this.

And he was like, he just sat there and it was great.'s so good so it was really nice and yeah my dad was um very patient when i went through my extreme financial crisis because i never said a word to him about it because he is so paranoid about money and he's so he's been on it like he used to lecture me about you have to make sure you get your taxes done from when i was like in junior high. It was just like a reminder. It would be like, and never, you don't want the government after you. He'd always say shit like that. My dad did that too. My dad gave me, got me my first bank account. It's what they do. Yeah. It's what they're into. He's like braces and a bank account. That's what I can provide you. Not a ton of affection.

Not good life advice. Cause my life isn't, isn't shambles. Well, that's good. That makes me, I get a lot of relief from that. You do too, because it's also your finances. A hundred percent. Because it's my favorite murder finances that I screwed up royally. You get, you have a bonus in that we're not going to get arrested. Yes, that's very true. But also you, here's your bonus in me. I could never judge you if you were like, Hey, sorry, I lost everything.

I'd be like, Oh, well, I actually said that today. I said that today where he was like, you got it. You should make sure. Cause if someone was my favorite murder stuff, he was like, you should make sure Karen can see all this. So she knows like you're playing her well and i'm like oh no she knows she knows and she knows how fucked i've made it and she's cool with it yep so because those huge weight off my shoulders that you are okay with it of course here's the thing at the end of the day and i'm not this sounds phony itony. It's only money. Now, when I don't have money, I don't really feel that way. No. No one does.

No one does. But truly, people do such terrible fucking things to themselves and to each other because of money. I've seen it happen. It's very bad. And when people are focused on that, because at the end of the day, think of it. You get a check. Obviously, a lot of us are in, you get into a bad place where you're like, yes, $5,000 would solve this, this and this. That's true.

But if you were, if you were above level and then you had a $5,000 check, this is what happened to me when I worked, when I had my first big job. Yeah. All I did was work. And so I had absolutely no life. And I just collected money and bought cashmere sweaters from J crew. Cause that's all I did. Cause you thought you had to spend it cause you were working so hard. It was the only thing I could figure out to do to like, Oh, maybe this will make me happy. So I had cashmere sweaters in every color and I was more miserable than I've ever been in my life.

And that's when I learned that lesson of like, I wasn't doing standup. I wasn't performing. I was just a behind the scenes, behind the camera person that was giving all of my creativity to someone else. And it was fucking killing me. So it didn't matter how many fucking cashmere sweaters I had. You showed up in at work because you showed up at a miserable job.

Yeah. You know, my thing too is that like, I've been poor before. I've like pretty much up until i was 32 been pretty paycheck been paycheck to paycheck from childhood on yeah and it's not the fucking you you still can have happiness and survive 100 like you're not not happy because you don't have money it sucks and there is a part of you that's unhappy because of it but you still get to have positive life experiences so money i mean money's not going to take that away of you that's unhappy because of it, but you still get to have positive life experiences. So money, I mean, money is not going to take that away from us. That's right.

Well, and also sometimes when you have to get a little creative, you can have better and more rich life experiences because you're actually kind of in the mix. Whereas I think sometimes when you have money and security, you, you become very isolated and you also start living lives that other people can't relate to. So you're just you're just kind of like you know we're fucking tenacious or what was the other one resilient resilient this is why i'll always support all the murderinos who make shit on etsy and sell it like my favorite murder stuff yeah because like oh yeah i wish i had had that when i was fucking broke yes make that fucking money you guys create your awesome art projects and the cool shit. Calligraphy? Yeah. Write up some

shit. Amazing. Just don't don't. There's one person who's selling our logo on something. Oh no. You have to make it. You have to make it. You have to make it. You have to earn it and don't be afraid to give us credit since it is our show. Just plug our show is all we ask. Yeah. We are.

Which they do. Don't pretend you fucking made it up Give us credit Take your money Take your dirty blood money Literally You guys thanks for listening We love you Stay sexy

Don't get murdered Bye Elvis want a cookie? Mimi want a cookie? Mimi? Elvis yeah Elvis want a cookie yeah yeah Mimi want a cookie Mimi Elvis yeah he's like yes