My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 89 - The Finch

Episode Date: October 5, 2017

On this week’s My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover Dean Corll and the Silent Movie Theater Murder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business.

Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac. We geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder The podcast

Where you ask the questions And we don't have the answers And why would we? Like, we're not answer people You know that, we've said it a million times And also, get your own fucking answers Whoops, whoops And then give them to us, please

Email them to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com Don't forget to Instagram some answers Take a picture of the answers and send them to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com Don't forget to Instagram some answers Take a picture of the answers and send them to George on Instagram You guys are so smart You really are You absolutely are This is a teaching podcast We teach you how smart you are

By not having answers and requesting them Maybe we do have answers and we're not really telling you Because we want you to learn them yourself I mean it is, it does invite the listener in To participate Hey, we're going to tell you because we want you to learn them yourself. I mean, it is. It does invite the listener in to participate. Hey, we're going to tell you this story. Are we wrong? Let us know. That's this thing where when I was a kid, it was fucking pissed me off more than anything.

When I'd ask my mom how to spell something and she'd say, look it up. Look it up. We have a whole set of dictionaries or whatever the fuck. Fuck you. Just spell this three letter word for me. You know what that was? She didn't know how to spell it. Hello. It's a classic

mom trick. Mom, you asshole. Pretend to be teaching because you don't know. That's like my dad going me complaining about I can't do math. Him going, well, just tell me what the problem is. Me being like, no, I don't want to open this door. Three hours later, my dad's screaming about new math.

Screaming. Sorry, I'm not an abacus anymore. Yeah, from the beginning. in the store three hours later my dad's screaming about new math screaming like trying to read the book yeah from the beginning he's gonna help me let me look at the beginning of this chapter hold on let me just read this forget it forget it forget it and also it's helped me in no way yeah in life math no math has helped me no basic basic algebra all you need and even then really what are these concepts it's almost like in algebra they're trying to get you it's like i don't have to like um plan the projection of a rocket ship to get from here to mars it's never going to happen in my life a rocket person yeah a rocket businessman Or a woman

Or a mathematician A rocket businessman Woman Please edit that out Person It could be any gender Gender fluid You could sell rocket ships

You could ride on rocket ships And just be the accountant on the rocket ship There's got to be someone who sells parts Where's that guy in the Alien the accountant on the rocket ship. There's got to be someone who sells parts. Where's that guy in the Alien series? Where's the rocket ship accountant that gets eaten first? Oh. I wonder if that's...

Paul Reiser was the irritating guy in at least one of the Alien series. Yeah. Was he the one who got his stomach busted open? No. Although something bad did happen to him. I shouldn't say no because... Well, everyone died. But I think I know the one you're thinking of, which is the one where they all had to witness it.

Man, I need to rewatch that movie. It's the best movie. That and Spaceballs I haven't seen in too long. Very similar. Right? Similar films. It's the same kind of idea. I'm thinking of Aliens 2, though, right?

Paul Reiser's and Steven Aliens 2 We're getting a yes From young Steven Who knows shit Science Steven Those are Those are some of my Favorite movies

And yeah Paul Reiser You know He He get You know he has to Get it in the end Spoilers Yes

Cause he Cause he's The douche bag Oh He's the corporate Douche bag That's like Hey we gotta do this

So you know Hey I'm gonna get you To do something Yeah he's in In charge Yeah Can I say

Sigourney Weaver From the first Aliens is my underwear muse? Oh, hell yeah. Those cotton, high-waisted underwear that are a little loose are the sexiest thing. I stopped wearing G-strings when I fucking saw that as an adult. I have to tell you, those underwear are only sexy if you have really long legs. If you don't, you look like someone's grandma. You do. Which is a genre for some people.

I don't want to kink shame anybody, God forbid. But you really need to have the pigs to make those grandma underwear work. Amen. And I don't. Also, if it was a realistic movie of her working on a spaceship and being all bedraggled by being chased by aliens, you know she would have had some razor burn. Full bush. She would have had bush coming out of those underwear.

She's not waxing up in space. Listen, I'm a feminist. Do whatever you want with your bush. Listen. I don't want to see it. Right. I mean, that's not your specific thing. No, that's not my kink whatever you want with your bush. Listen. I don't want to see it. Right. I mean, that's not your specific thing. No, that's not my kink. That's not your kink.

Perhaps it's someone else's. Everybody's included and everybody's supported. This is a murder podcast. Guys, are you here for true crime? Well, that's great. Is this your first time listening? You are not at the wrong place. Don't leave.

Don't leave. Don't go. We're about to talk about murder. Don't go. Don't leave us. I have a specifically gruesome one today. Do you really? It's not gruesome.

It's just that I've been working on it. Anyways, I have to shout out a couple of things. This will be quick, everyone. Okay. Someone named Julia or H-U-R made a fucking 8-bit video game of my favorite murder. That's right. And it is... I almost started crying when I saw it.

Vince was playing it. Steven loves it. In the beginning, you fight doctors and nurses, evil doctors and nurses that are trying to kill you. It's you and me and Elvis. And the way we kill people is Elvis attacks them. And then you have to go to the Cecil Hotel. You can take elevators up to kill certain, like, different kinds of killers.

Amazing. This, like, 8-bit music. It's all 8-bit, but it's, like, incredible. And so you go, okay, this is a weird. Julia, we need you to fix this website. It's j-u-k-e-l dot i-t-c-h dot i-o. I'm sorry if I actually Have sent you to a Some kind of

Virus underpants kink site Right but I don't think it is you can go play This video game I don't know what she's going to do with it but she Needs to conquer the world with it that's Amazing it's so good now I Have to tell you sadly I am So old I am from beef I Predate 8-bit video games so like

I know that that's the 90s kids. It's a big deal to them because they played them and it's the whole like Oregon Trail style shit. Oh yeah, I played that. I'm older than that. I'm older than that. So you guys didn't have computer labs in your elementary school? No, you know, well

we didn't have them anyway because it was Catholic school, which is super cheap. Like our scrap paper, we used paper that was the old menus from restaurants in town. Are you fucking kidding me? I swear to God. That kind of sounds cool because I love menus. Well, it was fun. And my friend, Ken Mason, one of my first friends, because I went there in sixth grade, so I was new.

He was also new. And he turned to me and goes, ma'am, may I take your order this morning? And I was like, hi, new best friends. Hi, best friends never. That's incredible. Yeah. But I was going to say, I think take your order this morning? And I was like, hi, new best friends. Hi, best friends never. That's incredible. But I was going to say, I think I told you this already. Our version of computer lab,

quote unquote, was they taught us basically how to enter code where they were like, they basically made a, we were working for the school where they're like, enter this on this line and this on this line and we were just doing they're like having you do their books yeah it was like data entry where

they're like put in 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 all the way across yeah it was ridiculous we had no idea what it was how it applied to the computers it doesn't yeah it's like that not necessary unless you're a rocket business and math are extraneous bullshit That you don't need to be taught Listen, I know email I know some things I know how to blog I can write about myself for hours

Should I mention First we should say thank you So much, we went to Detroit and Toronto Last weekend Fucking nicest crowds Incredible crowds, incredible shows. We had the best time.

I didn't tweet anything about it because on my way home, I was like, oh no, it's too late. I didn't want to do a like. I didn't want to do everybody at once, but they were such good shows. And at the Toronto show,

this is my favorite part. And when I told my sister, she started crying. There was a woman, there was people who were holding up signs in the audience. It was really funny. But of course, I don't have my glasses on. So I didn't, I just saw that there were squares. I need to remember that and point shit out to you. Yeah.

Because like, I forget, I think that you're not pointing it out because you don't want to. But like, remember when the two girls dressed as the Shining Twins in the front row? Yes. Like, if I hadn't fucking pointed that out to you, I would have cried. I was like, that's embarrassing. Those two girls wore the same outfit. And they were sitting next to each other.

But there was a girl, I told my sister this story. There was a girl that we met afterwards who was holding up a sign that said, MFM saves lives. And when I told my sister, she burst into tears. But the best part about it was. So that's a brag brag as we do. But when we met her at the meet and greet afterwards, she goes, I thought everyone was going to have a sign. And I was like, this isn't a march.

You're at a live show. She, for some reason, had it in her head that everybody was going to have a sign to hold up at the show. She was so nice. It was the cutest thing in the world it was really it was a big and i remember walking out and seeing it was a really big sign and i was like oh the people behind her are so pissed that's like a thing not like oh my god how nice i was like oh fuck no it was really sweet and it was hilarious it was great and god we're just so fucking lucky we're so lucky these the best people i know it's so fun so thank you So thank you, Detroit. Thank you, Toronto. Thank you, JFL, for inviting

us. We had a great time and we were really honored to close the festival. Yeah, they told us. Speaking of live shows, really quickly, I just want to mention shows that are kind of new to the roster and still have tickets available. So Fort Lauderdale on November

5th, Minneapolis on November 5th Minneapolis on October 18th And Kansas City we added a late show And that's on December 9th The end Okay great If you're in any of those cities and you want to come and see us There are tickets available

Go get them Oh and then we're doing the LA in Los Angeles Like we haven't announced It's not like We haven't been pushing this as much because it's not a huge show, but it's the LA Podcast Festival, which is our first show we ever did last year. Yes. And it was so much fun and we didn't know what we were doing. Yeah.

It was very close to our hearts. It is very close to our hearts because it's the first time we ever put this as a live. We didn't know at that show if people would even be okay with what we were doing live. Or come. Yes. Or anything. And the dollop puts it on, who, of course okay with what we were doing. Or come. Yes. Or anything. So, and the dollop puts it on who, of course, our brother podcast, I feel like. Yeah.

Well, it's Dave Anthony. It's Graham Elwood. It's Chris Mancini. Sorry. Yeah. That's okay. Well, just so everybody gets credit. We don't want them fighting.

We don't want those boys fighting. No. So, I think we're just going to do like little LA murders and then just bring people up to do hometowns. Maybe some of our comedy friends That there's a live show Who are doing the show As well at the Pop Fest And there's a ton of other

Really great podcasts To watch as well So There's so many good ones This year Get a weekend pass Yeah Like great ones

And it's at the Biltmore Hotel Yeah Which in and of itself Is an amazing place to be In downtown Los Angeles Totally Gorgeous hotel Listen get a hotel room

At the Ace Listen Have a weekend Go to Kohl's And get yourself a French dip. You could. That's right. Or Philips. Depends on which one. Try them both and tell us which one you like better. I like Philips

better. You could get married and then stay at the Biltmore for the weekend and then come to Podfest. I think that could be fun. Get married? Yeah. Can we marry people? We should get ordained. That's a great idea. Thank you. The church of... Thank you. I've's a great idea. Thank you. The church of... Thank you.

I've been waiting for you to say that. The church of... What's that? There's an internet church. Satan. Well, yeah, we could do that. I mean, why not? Oh, I don't want to make my Aunt Mary mad.

My Aunt Mary had knee surgery. She came through just fine. Dottie got fixed today. She came through just fine. Very similar. We were having... One can talk and is my relative and is a human being. got fixed today. She came through very similar. We were having this is one can talk and is my relative

and is a human being. Just really didn't mean to. It's okay. I didn't mean to belittle Aunt Mary. I just wanted to put it out there that I'm happy that she made it through. She listens to this podcast. That was very disrespectful. It's okay. I know you didn't mean it that way. I didn't. You were just word associating. Yeah, but also, you know, how

much cats mean to me. Of course. And it's your own cat, which is... Stephen is having a nervous breakdown. Stephen is bright red right now. Stephen, what's so funny about that? Stephen, what's going on? No, I just like, I mean, you were just like, and Donnie. I thought we were shouting out hospital people.

I thought this was a hospital corner. We were. We were. I overstepped my bounds. I just needed to, I needed to cap it, that's all No, it was perfect You got it It was perfect That's just so like me And my cat

I can relate everything to my cat That's your style But Dottie came through fine It's okay We don't have to do it I didn't mean to I know, no, she's fine That'll be my thing I love at the end

Let's save that for the end Cut that out Okay, good Don't cut that out Okay, I think that's it Oh, my thing is There at the end. Let's save that for the end. Cut that out. Okay, good. Don't cut that out. Okay. I think that's it. Oh, my thing is there's something else I want to talk about. I can't remember what it is offhand, which is just the style that I'm in right now.

But I will say this. I was going insane trying to enter Mindhunters, the new David Fincher series, into my DVR. I was doing it. I'm like, every time I would do it, it wouldn't accept it. And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm too late. I'm too early. I'm too early. I'm too early.

Well, now I know for a fact it's starting, I believe, on October 13. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Finally, I put it together. I had to look it up online. It's a Netflix series. There's nothing to program in my DVR. It was making means because I'm like, I'm going to miss it.

And so anyone else who might be having that experience, it's a Netflix series that you can't pre-plan. It's going to be so good. We're going to talk about it. We're going to have an extra mini-show just to talk about it. Yes, please. Watch it together. Yes.

And then have a whole talk now because it's distracting me. There's lots of people that love sending me suggestions constantly, and you on on twitter of have you seen this have you seen that I kind of I felt bad the other night when I was like watch this thing you have to and then I was like texted back I'm sorry you don't have to you don't have to we're very careful we're trying to be very careful very careful with each other's triggers that's right we're perfect together because we're the exact triggers for each other yes we are I love it I think we're we're perfect together because we're the exact triggers for each other yes we are love it's i think we're we're each other's sisters yes personalities yes you're my sister and i'm your sister you're not you're not my sister but she's too fucking

cool for me no no i love her um she's she is the greatest um No, it's just, it's almost like everything that I've ever worried about myself, I see in you. And then I get mad at you that I was like that. It's like that crazy. And I get scared of, I just, I always make friends with these women who have big personalities. I just I always make friends with these women who have big personalities and I get intimidated and I get intimidated easily and I don't act like myself, which they see and isn't fun. And then I change and get controlling and shit and weird. Yeah, because it makes sense to me, though, when you have because I also make friends with people with big personalities and you your're option... That's a compliment. I fucking love badass women. Yeah.

And I want to be friends with them. But you have to also have boundaries. Yeah. And you have to be able to hold your own shit and like know... Like I have a big personality, but I also absolutely want to know what you want. Like it's hard to manage that sometimes because I come from a family of screaming Irish people that are like... And I'm terrified of screaming shut

the door that's standard talking and I'm like she hates me what did I do I need to fix this I'm gonna be really nice to her and then you're just like she's annoying the shit out of me what's that tone in her voice yeah I think she might be snapping yeah it's we're great guys we're working look at us we're therapy is my god can you imagine life without therapy? It would be bad. I go to three therapists a week and I'm still not fixed. I go to two. We'll never be fixed. No.

There's no fixing. We're not cats. It's just, right? You're just always working on it. It's just our project. And we have this project together. Be honest. The best thing after the shows when we meet people is when they say go I went to therapy because you guys were so open about it. To me, that's like therapy is my fucking so important my jam and like if we can do that, then I don't give a shit anything else.

side effect that we had no idea was going to happen and people have told on all of those shows we had people at those meet and greets saying i went back or i went for the first time or whatever it is we're so grateful there was one girl who was like my therapist made me come tonight yes that's remember yeah she came alone she was like my therapist told me i have to come yeah okay all right then we get obsessed with like did you meet those girls over there they're really nice like we want the we want a friend match. Yeah. I love it. Anyhow, David Fincher, Netflix, Mindhunters.

I cannot wait. It's based on early FBI serial killing profiling and how serial killers, like it's just about all that. It's everything we love. And Finch. The Finch. Finch isch With his beautiful shots of like A 70s green Nova Yes, pulling into a shot Remember Zodiac and how gorgeous it was?

It was going to be a Netflix thing It's going to be a weekly series of beautiful shots Fuck, fuck, fuck, I'm so excited Anything else? I think whatever else there is That is dominating my mind The Fincher thing? Yeah

Okay There's nothing else I'm just obsessed I don't have anything Merch things, whatever Yeah, things are on sale Buy shirts You guys buy so many shirts

Or Steven shirts Shirts are going like hotcakes Oh, people loving those shirts? People love this They're starting to post photos of them They're starting to get them The Steven Nice

Shirts are amazing Who goes first this week? Me? Yeah, for going by Toronto I don't even know what we go by anymore No, that's what we go by Just the shows we do We do it by our own personal calendar

It's like the Jewish calendar But it's my favorite murder calendar We're as old as the Jewish calendar, but it's my favorite murder calendar. All right. We're as old as the Jewish calendar. We really are. And historic. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles.

It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business.

Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac. We geek out on your business. Learn how at interac.ca slash for business. Terms and conditions apply. Are you ready for Dean Corll, the Candyman? I went there. You went there?

I went there. Shit. I went there. Big shout out right now to the Texas Monthly article, The Lost Boys by Skip Hollingsworth, who I feel like we reference a lot. He writes incredible murder articles. Skip Hollingsworth? Holland. Hollingsworth?

Awesome. It's called The Lost Boys. It's got a lot. I feel like he wrote one that I did that was from Texas. He's been on our, he's been on the show before. Okay, that's awesome. And then also I want to shout out Marcus Parks from Hell yes. Fucking last podcast on the left for all the research.

They did like a four part episode. Yes. It's like got a lot of details that this doesn't have. It's because I don't, not going to do four parts of this. No. It's so, their version of it was such a deep dive, but also so upsetting. There were things in that that That like I'd seen that story Before on like whatever

Forensic files types of things He went into a deep Dive of all these books there's not a lot Of documentaries there's just Some like videos on YouTube and shit But there's not a lot of stuff Yeah this is an epic one okay I love it and just

We love you Marcus Parks love you, Marcus Parks. Yeah. Thank you, Marcus Parks. You're a genius. You're a mastermind. You're a. Yeah. He's a murder savant.

He's just so good at researching. I wish. I wish. I wish. I wish. I wish. Okay. Just give us all your old notes, Marcus.

It's like he's our brother and he already took the class. Yeah. I'm like, can I copy? Please just give it to us and we'll read your thing. Yeah, and then we'll do our own, I swear. We'll do a boring version of your book. We promise. We're not going to have

Henry Zabrowski talking in the background, so it's not going to be the same. It'll be the quiet girl version. Okay, here we go. This is the Candyman Dean Corll. Alright, on the evening of august 7th it's 1973 wayne henley he's a 17 year old wiry kid acne thick brown hair he's kind of like it looks like a brooklyn hipster he invites his 19 year old friend timothy curly to a party at his friend

dean coral's house in pasadena texas it's a suburb of Houston. And they bring along Henley's 15-year-old friend, Rhonda Williams. She had been beaten by her drunk father that night. And so he was like, he took her out of the home for the time being. I was like, you can crash at my friend Dean Corll's house. Dean Corll is 33. And Henley tells them he's a chill dude. He lets people crash at his house. He parties with them

33 year old guy wants to party with teenagers Yep a red flag Seven red flags A hundred What? I started singing a lot on this podcast You got to I know

Sometimes that's the only way to get real crazy shit out Okay they get there around 3am They drink they smoke they sniff Sniff paint they pass the fuck out what sorry you know it's the 70s you sniff paint god it's so that is the bleakest like it's that thing of like when you scrape your pot pipes and you're just trying to get like you smoke old resin or whatever like sniffing paint is like 10 steps below that Well because I bet the 70s weed is fucking

Terrible sure and They're fucking high school kids have you seen There's a um there's An amazing mug shot of a Guy and it just has a ring of A paint can outline around his face It's gold isn't it gold I used to have this

Tumblr I had a hundred tumblers and i had one called uh what was it was called look at this fucking convict and i would post a photo of a mugshot and just write what happened i should do that again that's funny whatever and i posted that one once okay okay so um they pass out and they and Henley wakes up to find his mouth taped shut. His ankles are bound and Dean Corll is snapping handcuffs onto his wrists. And Curly and Rhonda are also bound, gagged beside him. And Curly had been stripped naked. And Curly had been stripped naked So

When Henley woke up Coral removes the gag and he Says I'll help you kill them If you just let me go And he says okay And then So they untie Henley they go to

And Coral's gonna Sexually assault Curly And he says to Henley go assault ronda and um ties them up so coral starts to assault curly hadn't and then henley grabs coral's pistol off the mantle off the thing and shouts you've gone too far dean i can't go on any longer i can't have you kill all my friends and shoots dean coral in the forehead which didn't penetrate his fucking head what this again i know why does this keep happening that's the second story we've heard where a bullet ricochets off

of someone's skull yep makes me feel a little better i mean it's insanity yeah um it also makes me think is it the Like, is this a trait of certain types of people? When people say you got a real thick skull, maybe it's a thing. Yeah. Science people. Guys. Figure it out. Science people. Cure cancer, then figure it out. Yeah, don't prioritize

this, please. So he shoots Dean five more times in the hallway. He finally collapses dead. There's a fucking photo of that of course you can't see his face and then this murder of Dean Corll ends the worst serial killer case in Houston history

Wayne Henley calls the police on himself they arrive and Henley explained what had happened that night and the police thought of him as a hero initially because he saved his friends and then the story took a turn as Henley began to tell detectives the crazy story of the past three fucking years. So ever since they met in 1971, under the command of Dean Corll, he had Henley had helped procure teenage boys, some of whom had been his own friends, for Dean Corll to rape and murder. The detectives were like,

fuck you, that's not true. They were totally skeptical. But they went through the crime scene with the house of Dean Corll and they started finding things that were like, oh shit, maybe he's not lying. They found plastic sheeting covering the floors, a plywood board with handcuffs on each corner, which you can see online as well,

dildos and other torture devices And then also his Ford Econoline had a wooden crate With air holes drilled in the sides Pegboard walls and in the rear of the van Were rigged with several Several rings and hooks As part of the fucking story In the last podcast on the left

The shit that Henry Zebrowski is saying Is some of the funniest shit I've ever heard. Yes. It's like epic. He's the master. Yeah. There's a lot, you know, there's a lot of triggering shit in there, but that part's great. Okay.

And inside the crate were several strands of human hair. They're still skeptical, though. And so Henley's like, let me show you something. He leads detectives to a southwest Houston boat shed rented by Coral. Gives them the names of three boys they could find buried in there.

The cops were like well those boys had been reported missing for three years and so they start to dig. This is the part in Last Podcast on the Lift where it's so upsetting and fucked up. I think even Henry was upset at this

part because it's so disturbing. The only good documentary was on YouTube. It's called 1973 Houston Mass Murders. But be careful because they show them digging bodies out. And the other part that's so insane is they get inmates from the local jail to help them dig it out.

And you're like, what if you had gotten a DUI and they were like, come dig out. Like, you're going to be fucking scarred for life. Yo, no. And everything about that part where it's like they just got some people who are not qualified, basically as a punishment, to uncover a killing boat shed. Like the most awful. Teenage boys. Yeah. Okay.

So they begin to dig and find a body within minutes. They find the first body. Okay, so let's go to Dean Corll. There's a ton of shit about his childhood i don't think any of it's relevant it's like the typical kind of shitty childhood mom and dad divorced blah blah blah but it's not i don't think it's that important to the story that i'm telling so i'm not gonna fucking talk about it he ends up in the heights neighborhood of houston and that's where a lot of this takes place the heights neighborhood is kind of this poor um underprivileged neighborhood and the you know back then children

ran amok yeah you do whatever the fuck you want yeah um so the reason he got his name the candy man is he worked in his family's candy company um and then in 1965 the candy company moved across the street from an elementary school and he was known to give free candy to local children i mean it's just why not dress up like a clown you've got everything else horrifying going on well i mean yeah it's like 1973 they're like go hang out with that that nice man who gives you candy it's so suspicious yeah no it's not then but it should be right not then but like now that we know what we know it's just like people it's like people who are like oh i'm not trying to

catch any fish i'm just making this huge fishing lure right that you know what i mean it's just like what would make children come around all the time what's that movie that has um what's his name matt dylan and the child the kids take over the town oh on the on the edge over the edge over the edge you mean where they're just partying in the suburbs like yeah and then the parents are around yeah yeah watch that movie and that's what to me it seems like this time was like it's a good movie but also you just were out till all till whenever you wanted to be you had total freedom yeah um to hang out with fucking perverted yeah there was 13 year old men yes it was the thing of if they're an adult they're in charge yeah if they're an adult they're fine yeah like that's all it takes to qualify as you have a job and a car and you don't have like long hippie

and you're a good guy or am i good yeah. So he was known to get free candy out, in particular teenage boys. And he made a whole rec room for them to hang out in with like a pool table and shit. He's big and broad shoulders, thick black hair and sideburns. He was known, in the words of one of the reporters, a pleasant smiling candy man of the heights. Red flag. Aren't they all? Aren't they a pleasant smiling candy man of the heights. Red flag. Aren't they all? Aren't they all? Yeah.

I don't know. Red flag. Yeah. I don't. There's a couple of pictures of him. There's not a lot. And he just looks like a normal dude. A normal, like, nice looking guy.

Yeah. Creepy. Yeah. He's the creepiest in that he. Clean cut. Yes. He did it exactly right to not get caught. He did it so right.

Okay. So in 1967, he befriended 12 year old David Brooks. He was in sixth grade. His family life was kind of falling apart. And so Brooks was taken under Dean's wing as like a mentor. Almost. He, Brooks said about him, he was the first adult male who didn't make fun of him and that he was like a father figure, which is insane.

Yeah. So, as a teen, when Brooks became a teen, Coral paid him to allow him to perform fellatio on him. And he began living with Dean a lot since he was from this broken home. And I'm sure his family was like, great, he's got an adult role model. Yeah. But according to those who knew Brooks, the teenager wasn't gay. He had a girlfriend who lived in the Heights. But this older man who had known him since he was 12 was like, help me.

Yeah. He basically, well, that's what pedophiles do is they groom, they pick them. They only pick children who aren't being protected. Yeah. This kid, they say that he was an introspective Young kid so he probably didn't have a ton of friends His parents were divorced And they moved away so And all of these

Fucking documentaries and all of these Stories they call Dean Corll Homosexual and I can't fucking I don't think that's right I think he's a pedophile and that's not the same thing As being homosexual He even had a girlfriend Yeah no he's a pedophile. He's a pedophile. And that's not the same thing as being homosexual. Right. He even had a girlfriend. Dean Coral did?

Yeah. Yeah, no, he's a pedophile. He's a pedophile. Like, that's not homosexual. Right. So, Dean... That's also, I think, it could be, too, you're reading things from Texas in, like, the 80s, maybe, where there's not, you know, people hadn't caught up all the way to, like, what are we really talking about? Because most pedophiles are straight men. Yeah.

That's, that's like governmental. Well, I still see it like copied in articles, you know, the homosexual, like just he's a pedophile who liked young boys. So it's not, I don't know. It's just something that irks me. Like, I feel like if I had said that we'd get an email from someone to be like, that's not, you know, and rightfully so. Correcting it.

And I totally agree with that. Yeah, exactly. So Dean Corll's first known murder victim is 18-year-old Jeffrey Conan. On September 25th, 1970, he'd been hitchhiking from the University of Texas and was dropped off near Dean's apartment. And

they think that Dean offered him a ride and he gagged him with a cloth and strangled him. After the murder of Jeffrey Conanrey conan david brooks so his his fucking kid who was 15 walks in on coral in the act of assaulting two teenage boys who coral strapped to a plywood torture board and coral promised brooks a car in return for his silence he told brooks 15 years old that he is part of a gay pornography ring he had been paid to send the boys to california to pose for for photos that's what his story was it's so you

don't have to worry about it yeah somehow but then later coral confessed that he had killed the boys and he offered david 200 for any boy he could lure to Coral's apartment. And at this point, it seems like Brooks, people say he didn't have a choice. He was now part of it because he had not told about the two boys he had seen him molesting. And also

this is a life change that's been introduced by a person he trusted. So he hasn't had any other adults in his life that have been reliable, it person he trusted. So he doesn't, he hasn't had any other adults in his life that have been reliable, it sounds like, or good people. And now the one person that he sees as a good person is introducing all these kind of variables where he's supposed to believe this is okay behavior. Or it's like, yeah, cut this person who's supported you for the past, you know, few years out of your life or do what's.

Or play along. Play along. You're not going to kill anyone. Just bring him to him. I mean, it's insane. It's an insane fucking story. But it's kind of like brainwashing. Definitely.

I mean, really, that's, you know, he's getting people. He's not convincing anybody that's like coming from a great background with a lot of solid ground under their feet which isn't in no way to say if you're from a broken home obviously right that you would be but it's more of the um he knew who to pick to groom to basically brainwash into living this i mean aside from dean corll is clearly a psychopath it's insane that he was able to get this kid david brooks to fucking do this for him and i i can't wrap my head around it i can't imagine a scenario that i'd ever be okay with that which means it's a scenario that i can't even imagine it's like something really insane happened that this kid was okay with it right or maybe he wasn't okay with it but what else he was already in yeah like he didn't he had nowhere else to go. Definitely. Okay. On December 13th, 1970, so David Brooks lures two 14-year-old kids named James Glass and

Danny Yates. He lures them from a religious rally to Coral's apartment. You know, the thing of like, hey, let's go party. You know, I got some weed and we can hang out at this dude's house. Yeah. Like, cool, older guy. Everyone loves it. There's a pool table.

Do you know who it is? It's fucking, it's the movie, oh my God, what do you know who it is it's fucking um it's the movie oh my god what's wrong it's matthew mcconaughey it's matthew motherfucking mcconaughey yeah from days and days and confused yes that's exactly who he is and the victim is the kid from it with the long hair yeah the little kid the new freshman yeah that's exactly what it is and like everyone's like david matthew mcconaug character is so cool. No, he's a fucking perverted pedophile. He's an old man. He's a gross old man.

He wants to hang out with high school kids. But there is that thing of inclusion. If you are living your whole life, so say it is, let's use the days and confused example. And that kid isn't just getting his ass kicked at school, but there is very violent scenes of him getting his ass kicked at home and home there was very violent scenes of him getting his ass kicked at home and

home being an unsafe place for him to be. And then you've got Matthew Kahani rolling up and being like, Hey man, it's chill. Come and play pool. Yeah. Get in my cool car. I'll drive you around town.

We'll go to this bar, play pool. Totally. You found, you finally found somewhere to land. You don't want to give that up right away. But then he, it's almost like he's slowly

ebbed away or i don't there's a better way to say it but like it's almost like i bought him i bought you a car you know like he's just slowly grinding down this kid's inner identity yeah it's fucked up i mean yeah definitely so let's so the police should arrest mat McConaughey Is what I'm saying Let it get so much worse You know our tagline Always So both boys, James Glass and Danny Yates Are tied to opposite sides Of Corll's torture board

And subsequently raped and strangled Six weeks After that double murder on January 30th 1971 Brooks and Coral Find two teenage boys Brothers named Donald and Jerry Waldrop

Walking The boys were taken into the van Driven to Coral's apartment And it's like they don't grab them off the street They want to party Which is the scariest part to me The apartment where they rape, torture and strangle the brothers and at this point brooks drops out of school just it's he's 100 with coral so yeah and i bet you he's sorry but i bet you he's

if there's some you know like the moral compass inside, he's probably having to self-medicate so much just to make all of this okay. Right. And then having a normal life like school and teachers. No. Your brain can't wrap around that. There's no going back to sitting in a classroom after you're doing shit like this. Totally. So, between March and May of 1971, Corll abducted and killed three more victims, all of who lived in the Heights area as well.

His M.O. in most cases was gruesome torture and rape, and he'd sometimes shoot them, sometimes strangle them. A couple occasions he'd leave his victims to die by bleeding out from the gunshot wound. And each of these abductions, Brooks is known to have been a participant Again they go a lot further into it If you're okay with gruesome shit In last podcast on the left The other two victims were 13 year old David Hildegist

And 16 year old Greg Winkle and they were Abducted and killed together on the afternoon of May 29th 1971 And so In the case with other parents as well, both sets of parents are frantic to find their kids. They know something is wrong. These are young boys who don't run away.

And one of the people who voluntarily offered to distribute posters of the boys was a friend of theirs, 15-year-old neighbor, Wayne Henley, lifelong friend of Hildegeist. So, at this point, in 71, Brooks introduces Corll to Wayne Henley. Remember him from the beginning of the story? He shot and killed Dean Corll. Yeah. And it's possible that Wayne was supposed to be a potential victim.

But for some reason, they became friends and Wayne Henley became another accomplice. Wayne Henley said about him, we hit it off. He was a smart, clean cut, nicely dressed man. He listened to me. He explained things to me. I'll be honest with you. It was important that Dean liked me. He was kind. Wow. I know. Which then explains, is it David Brooks? Yeah. Yeah. Explains his participation. Same thing.

Yeah. The value of just being there and like listening. Not being parental. Being like the cool uncle. Yeah. Or just trying to like pay attention a little bit. Yeah. I feel like parents are getting that now.

Yeah. Nowadays, like in spades. Yeah. But in the 70s it was just like your parents were the people that came home and you ate meals with and they yelled at you yeah because it was like it was also in a in a lower class neighborhood so it's probably both parents were working so they didn't have time to fucking deal with your shit yes yeah and you were maybe you were a bad kid, let's say,

and they didn't, yeah. Yeah, you were just one more headache. Yeah. I mean, that's how it is for some people and was for a lot of people

back then. Yeah, for sure. They hit it off and when he found out Henley didn't, about the murders, Henley didn't go to the police

even when Coral told him that he had been the person who abducted and killed David Hildeguist his childhood friend uh Coral pushed Henley to bring him another boy and he picked Frank Aguirre a good friend of his which is so fucking insane but I think that speaks to the level of psychopath that Dean Corll was because they're like the greatest like traveling salesman that you've ever met. That's what they're like. Like that to me is so dark. I mean, it's fucking crazy awful, obviously.

But like to bring a friend to know that he's going to get at least he's going to get raped. But I mean, I think that the pitch is on Dean Corll's gonna get raped But I mean I think that the pitch Is on Dean Corll's side Is like I will like you even more You will get even more from me even better Like it's Show me you mean it Like show me how much you're involved in this

I mean whatever psychopaths do to get you To hypnotize you into doing what they want This guy was good at it Yeah very good I mean it's insane yeah um okay so they bring him okay they play the game which we fucking have heard again again and again the handcuff handcuff game good old handcuff game the one where henley and brooks put on the pair of handcuffs behind their back they have a secret key and they're like see They're trick handcuffs you try it

And then he tries it And he's stuck Ugh you can just picture it It breaks my fucking heart If you are ever in a scenario Age anything up till At any point in your life Let's say there's no age limit on this game

And someone says let's play the handcuff game Immediately walk out of the room And call the police Why else? Because at the very least they're a magician So you should call the police anyway But there's almost nothing good Comes out of the handcuff game

A. Don't be alone in a room with a man ever Unless it's your boyfriend or something Don't be alone in a room with a man Especially a strange man Especially if there's handcuffs Unless it's your boyfriend or something. Don't be alone in a room with a man. Especially a strange man. Especially if there's handcuffs. Three times underlined if there's handcuffs. Do you think I'd ever let anyone but like Vince and Steven in this house if I were alone?

No, I would. If someone knocked, I would tiptoe to the door. I would peek out the thing and I'd be like, hell fucking no. Now, what if you had the handcuffs? What if the power was in your hands? I I don't know I would just like handcuff him And paint his nails because I'm not a psychopath Um the idea that anyone Wants to handcuff anybody is

Something bad is about To happen that's not a game Let's look for our context clues Of bad things happening even if they want To do the fucking Chinese finger trap Still that's two fingers you don't have. Nope that shit and get the fuck out of there. Goodbye.

I hate this birthday party, mom. Goodbye. And you're leaving your mom alone with him now. What a dick. Kids are such assholes. Okay. So they play the handcuff game. When Aguirre puts on the handcuffs,

Coral drags the teenager into the bedroom. And according to Henley, quote, had his fun with him. Can I just tell you, I've been studying this one. I was like, I'm gonna do it this week. And I had two days to do it. And I'm like, no, you're not. This is too much. And I so I've been doing it for three weeks and having fucking nightmares.

I bet. Like, I'm really glad to get this fucking over with. This one and the Toy Box Killer are like I don't I stopped listening to the toy box killer on Last podcast I can't do that There's nothing They have recordings of it The fact that there's recordings of him

Just know just don't you guys If you're sensitive don't read the toy box killer No it's the worst I'll never do it it's pure Demonic Destruction Nothing there's nothing interesting about it the worst i'll never do it it's pure demonic destruction nothing there's nothing interesting about it it's a person who can destroy people and does very slowly it's horrible yeah so in late 72 they brought 17 year old billy um balk who used to sell, uh, Dean Coral's candy door to door and his 16 year old friend, uh,

Johnny Delone, 14 months later, Coral Henley and Brooks grabbed Billy's younger brother, Michael, who was on his way to get a haircut. How sad is that? This parent lot, the parents lost first,

their kid first kid goes missing. Then they grabbed his little brother and he goes missing. And the parents know something is wrong. In a lot of the documentaries, they're like, they thought they were runaways or like they were poor and they didn't care at that point if they were runaways. Which from what I've read and what I can tell, it's not true. His parents knew something was wrong. Yeah. So they captured and killed a 20-year-old father who had been living in the Heights and was hitchhiking they snatched homer garcia a boy from southwest

houston who was going to driver's ed with fucking henley oh and then two boys who had just moved into an apartment across the street from henley's house then it was 15 year old billy lawrence was and he was forced to write a letter to his father saying daddy i hope you know i at the end he's saying i'm gonna go away for a little while. I got this job. I'll be back in town. And then he wrote at the end, Daddy, I hope you know I love you. Your son, Billy.

He was kept alive for three days on the plywood because Henry later said Coral, quote, really liked him. Next was Rusty Branch. And so in total, 28 boys from the Houston area Next was Rusty Branch And In a total So in total 28 boys From the Houston area

Disappeared in a Three fucking Year span 28 28 boys Aging from 9 to 21 11 went missing

From the same Junior high school 11 teenage boys Not teenage 13 13 14 year old boys 12 year old boys

From the same junior high school Red fucking flag principal whatever your name is Where is anybody doing anything Principal Dave Fucking Call the police Um and at least 20 of them had been residents

Of either the heights or Adjoining neighborhoods. Many parents of the boys were had desperate searches for their kids. Some took out. So there were people who took out a loan to hire a private detective offered. And remember, these are people who don't have money, right? Offered a large reward, called the police constantly. They employed multiple psychics.

In the end, police were even aware that anything was amiss. Of course, they did the fucking They're all runaways yeah 28 boys In three years and they're all runaways So it was the norm though in the 70s Especially kids who came from the heights Um who Police just wouldn't even look into it Okay about the police

I don't want to blame them And dismiss them as being shitty at their jobs Because there was a lot going on at the time Which made it a perfect hunting ground for Quarrel Houston's Crazy domineering police chief Herman Short He believed in an old school way of law enforcement

He, Houston was exploding In population There was a fucking ton of money So there were really rich people there And that's who they really cared about They had an understaffed police force. In 1970 they had half the minimum to police the population.

Whoa. And this is in places where there's a lot of crime going on. And they underpaid the cops. Federal funds were available but Short refused any federal assistance calling it a handout. Oh no. No, no, no. It's like the wild fucking west. Get out of here.

The workload was so crazy that many cops just gave up and they played a game of who could leave work the earliest. So parents who had lost their sons on one side of the Heights had no idea that there were parents on the other side of the Heights who had also lost sons. So it was just a disorganized, insane, hopeless situation. The thought of being a parent and not being i've always thought about that with the runaway thing where it's like you know your kid better than anyone there's something wrong also just that the idea that they're essentially what

it sounds like is there was almost no police force right for them right which is horrifying talk about this is an amazing venture here's your next movie dude because it's the candy man which in and of itself is a huge horrifying story like the fact the name is like spot on it's one of those like classic yeah but then on top of that he's so he's clearly so smart Dean Corll is so smart and the opportunity. He got lucky. He got lucky that it was that period of time. And that he was this master manipulator.

Yeah. But that part, I remember when Marcus was talking about that part in their thing and the details they gave about all those things. It was mind blowing where it's like, there's always, you know, it's like the same thing happened in the late 70s in LA. In LA, in the late 70s, there was four serial killers working at one time. Jesus Christ.

And it was the same thing if the cops didn't talk the, they were all competing with each other so they wouldn't do cross county communication, they wouldn't do Well, they didn't have a lot of ways of, even if they wanted to, there was no internet. You couldn't call and be like, do you have someone who was strangled?

And it's like, there's tons of other things going on at the same time. There's all kinds of stuff. And it's all, yeah, everything's like, write a letter. Oh, do you want to find out if something happened in the valley? Write a letter. Right. So the one thing that Chief Short did do in an attempt to make sure the crimes didn't happen after they found out about it was order his officers to raid the city's

gay bars. Problem solved. Problem solved. Yay. Good job. Good job. Okay, let's go back to the beginning of the story. 1973, Wayne Henley leads skeptical police to the boat shed that Dean Corll rented. They start to dig with the help of fucking story, 1973, Wayne Henley leads skeptical police to the boat shed that Dean Corll rented. They start to dig with the help of fucking inmates.

And they found the first body in a matter of minutes, then two more, then another six underneath them. Stacked up. Henley also led authorities to a location near a wooded area near Sam Rayburn Reservoir where four bodies were uncovered. The day after Henley's arrest, brooks turns himself in to the police henley hadn't even mentioned him he didn't rat him out i know and together they led police to a location on the on high island it's like a there's like a scenes of them digging in at a beach it's crazy wow but like people camping and there's fucking bodies so that uh they found six more bodies at High Island. And within a week, the remains of 27 young males had been found.

Wow. A week after the first bodies are found, despite a few thousand missing persons reports having come in from 1968 to 1970s, the authorities, they call off the excavations. Despite the fact that even henley and brooks told them they knew where other bodies could be located they just decided that's enough well i think they didn't want the death toll to get higher because it looks so bad yeah oh i think that they were like already under so much scrutiny by the media that they stopped can Can I just say this to people? If you're ever in this situation where you're in charge of something that's going to total shit, the only thing you can do at a certain point is let the truth come out.

Yeah. Because you pretend it like that idea is so to me, such a like male in his 60s. I'm in charge of this. Watch. Listen to me, everybody. It's narcissistic in a way that I can't put myself in those parents shoes that they might want to find. Like, I don't understand what anyone else is. He's prioritizing what looks like for him as opposed to what it feels like for the victim.

He probably can't even begin to comprehend other people's emotions. Well, and also, but also he's in a situation that he's not trained for he's never even thought could happen but the and he screwed screwed up from the get-go yeah and and but the when you're at that at that point let it all come out because you have to think of like long-term how it looks and also what your actual job is your job is job is to protect people. You can't now pretend like you protected anybody because that that's off the boards entirely.

Yeah. Why am I talking about this? I'm not giving advice to this fucking sheriff from 40 years ago, but it bums me out because I know you watch people make these decisions where it's like, okay, well now I'm just going to scramble to cover my own ass. It drives me crazy.

Yeah. Where it's like, it's that part's, well, now I'm just going to scramble to cover my own ass. It drives me crazy. Yeah, where it's like, that part's over. Yeah. It's over. The thing, like, my therapist will always say when I get these calamity things in my head of everything's going to fall apart, she's like, okay, what can they not take away from you? And it's like, they can't take away Vince.

They can't take away my cats. They can't take my family. I'm healthy still. It's like, it's going to suck and you're going to look like a piece of shit, but it's going to be okay in the long run. Don't add to it. Don't fucking add to it by lying. Don't lie. Don't lie. Because

here's the other thing too. It's that thing where you can lie, obviously, and in the moment you're going to think that that's a good fix. And you're out of it. Yeah, you got out of it. You're tripling down on how bad you look when you tell a lie. Because here's the thing. And this is a recommendation in lying in general.

As a great, huge liar all my life, you always get caught. And it's humiliating. And you look 10 times worse than you actually are. Because you think there's a shortcut. You think you can get out of it by just saying something. Please just know there's always someone around who knows the truth and knows you're lying. And you're doubling down. You're absolutely right.

Because then you can't come back and be like, okay, this is what actually happened. Right. But you also lied about it. Right. So you're even a bigger piece of shit. You're just making everything worse. And this was like training from high stress TV tv daily tv production yeah where it's just come clean immediately and start fixing it yeah that's the only thing that was ever solution you

never got in trouble for fucking up as long as you were in the solution yeah but when you lie and you go like oh someone else told me well then you're delaying the fix yeah and delaying the fix is really the worst sin of all because lying is is just, that's just for your ego. Yeah. But you have to fix it. Yeah. Fuck. The 70s.

The 70s? Stop lying. The 80s need to go to prison. The 70s need to stop lying. The 90s? I'm not ready to talk about the 90s. We'll go there. We can't give you all our advice in one episode or you'll never listen again.

Listen, we have a lot more fucking look advice look and listen to our advice and take it anyways right in case there's time travel okay so henley and brooks get life sentences they're still alive go go back in this 1973 houston mass murders video on youtube they are the cameras are rolling while they're excavating bodies and henley is talking henley is telling reporters what happened he couldn't stop talking it's i bet it's pretty incredible there's a video there's a part where he calls his mom mama i killed dean there's a part of him on the phone with his mom as like cameras are recording it jesus christ yep well also because i bet you those kids were in complete trauma mode they were like in shock yeah for years over i mean yeah it's over that's crazy

okay in 2012 a polaroid of a young boy handcuffed and screaming. I've seen it. No. It's horrifying. Don't look at those. I have to. Don't, I mean. I have to. It's my fucking psyche.

Okay, but just don't do that damage to yourself. I've been nightmearing. Yeah. Of course you have. It turns up in some of Henley's possessions. And when presented with the photo, Henley said he didn't recognize the boy, which is if it's true, it means there's at least one other victim, a 29th that's yet to be identified. It's also guessed that there could have been past accomplices who became victims themselves. That would make sense. Just as Henley might have as well. And based on his skill and MO

of the first killing, it's very doubtful that was actually his first, the kid who was hitchhiking. Yeah. And I completely believe it. Right. There's no way. A reporter named Barbara Gibson and Dr. Sharon Derrick, a forensic anthropologist with the medical examiner's office in Houston, now are working to identify the three victims that have yet to be named. These women are fucking awesome. working to identify the three victims that have yet to be named. These women are

fucking awesome. And then to end it, I just want to quote Willie Glass, the brother of Jimmy Glass, who disappeared, or who was killed. Said, Dean Corll didn't just kill 27 boys, he killed 27 families. And that's my

story of the Canyon Man, Dean Corll. And now, I don't ever want to think about it again. Yeah. Yeah. Until David Fincher makes the movie. The Finch. Oh God.

Yeah. That was great. I mean, that's, um, that's a, that's the best case scenario you can do of, there's some details in that,

in that digging part. Yeah. That will be with me forever yeah it's i definitely i mean there's some genital mutilation that i didn't talk about there's some fucking torture or torture stuff that i just can't and also you know what it is if you've seen one thing if you've accidentally read or seen something that's about this that's what it is you know what it is you don't need more of it yeah i mean i understand the thing of like your curiosity gets the best of you but i

i stopped doing that a little while ago only because it becomes all the same and then you're just basically doing specifics of faces or hair colors or whatever but it's the same yeah horrible scenario yeah i mean i just you know i do the thing where i keep going back to that polaroid they found and i look deep into this kid's eyes to see if i can what i can suss out of it you know what i mean and like he looks like he's in a box it's a blurry photo and you can see like a there's a toolbox next to him and i just try i keep putting myself in his shoes and i can't do that like it's well there's no like I have to but I mean what to what value to what end it's just being empathetic of this

story that I'm you can be empathetic and know nothing about it I'm empathetic and all I did was listen to what you told me yeah I mean it it's horrifying. But that's also, you know, everybody has different experiences with actually looking at the things. Just don't get confused about what, you know what I mean? Yeah. What I need to do. Do what's good for you.

Yeah. Nightmares aren't good for you. Yeah. That's not the point. Yeah. Oh, the candy man. Oh, the candy man. Oy vey.

Everyone will suffer under the Candyman. Oh, the Candyman. Everyone will suffer under the Candyman. Well, mine is, this is actually, it's not firsthand. I guess it's kind of secondhand, but I've wanted to do this one for a while. I just didn't know any details. And I, when I would look it up, I, it was always very vague vague there wasn't enough story and then um one of the shows that is on my dvr that comes up every couple times every once a month maybe it's a show called demons in the city of angels have you heard of it no okay so that's where um when i did the publicist that got murdered yeah Yeah. It was from that. That's when I first saw that story. And I was like, oh, I remember that.

Well, this one is the story I wanted to do. And it came up one day where I was like, oh, my God. And it's the murder at the silent movie theater. Do you remember this? Yeah. Okay. So, on Demons in the City of Angels, narrated by an incredibly intense man named A.J. Benza

who I believe himself was a crime reporter. I'm not sure what, I don't know that much about him but I think he has a true crime background but now he's hosted lots of shows. I've seen him on other things but now he narrates this show and it's

all crimes that happen in LA. I love it. I need to watch it. It's pretty good. But this one, I was just so happy because it's the detailed versions of this story. So it's 1997, Los Angeles. I moved here in 1994. When did you move here? 98.

98. So this was kind of like one of the first big bad. I mean, I moved here the year of the earthquake and oj and riots um riots all that stuff happened right around the same time as when i moved here um so this was kind of the next big one yeah and this there's a silent movie theater on fairfax at um melrose just below melrose I think it's like two blocks below. Right now, it's in flux because it was bought by a company called CineFamily that was doing these amazing, their calendar was incredible. I am a member.

I know tons of people who are members, and they would show amazing, either new movies or um you know directors whole weekends of directors films all this stuff it was this it was really a fun creative place and then and then they very recently i think it was like three months ago i got an email saying all films all like of all of our plans are suspended right now because these huge sexual harassment like accusations came down the pike and they're like until we know what's going on we're not doing anything anymore with the with the heads of cine family yeah the people who are running it so i don't know details about any of those things and that's not what my story is about but it's a

bummer because this movie theater has had issues since i mean like i i'm very interested yeah interested to know what was there before yeah because it's never not had bad vibes yeah it's like something's going on because there's never not something, some issue. So we'll go to, this is the night, January 17th, 1997. And this is the anniversary of the sixth year of the reopening of the silent movie theater. So I think, I think before this, it, it, the movie theater had been built by Dorothy and John Hampton. They bought an empty lot there on Fairfax. Wow. And they built the theater from the ground up.

And so this guy, Larry Austin, got a job at the theater when he's 19 years old. He was a local kid. He grew up in the Fairfax district, but he was gay. And in his teens, his father rejected him. His father basically kicked him out of the house. And he, the Hamptons basically took him in like family. So he started working at the silent movie theater in its original form when he was 19 years old. How cool would that be?

Yeah. And he was super into, as many people, when you live in Los Angeles, there are a lot of people, it's all about kind of who you know and how connected you are to the movie business. Yeah. Or TV, but movies are a little fancier. And this, I think Larry always wanted to be in show business in some way and working at the silent movie theater he was you know he did everything for this family from when he was 19 he was with the hamptons for 37 years holy shit so he really was like a son of theirs until the theater closed in 1979. And it was basically

it was just kind of a place where people who cared about film and, you know, movie buffs and stuff would go to watch silent films. But it wasn't like doing, you know, a great business or whatever. So they ended up having to close. And then in May of 1990,

John Hampton died. And after he 1990, John Hampton died. And after he died, Dorothy Hampton was really depressed. And Larry Austin convinced her to reopen the theater. He thought that would be the perfect thing for her. And she agreed. And so they decide that they're going to go in. The theater was basically kind of left just standing for 10 years with nothing going on in it so they have to hire a contractor to come in

and basically help them rebuild the theater so they can reopen it and the contractor is a guy named james van sickle um and uh as they work on the theater and slowly rebuild it, Larry Austin, who at this point is I think he is in his early 60s and Van Sickle, who is in his late 30s, start having an affair. The contractor and the guy whose family basically like a son. Yes. Got it. Exactly. OK. The guy whose idea was to reopen and

with the widow Dorothy Hampton. Got it. And so they basically put all of their work and Larry lives in the apartment above the movie theater. Cool. I didn't even know there was one. I know. How awesome. Don't you love that idea? Yes. Like when you go into the theater, the popcorn stand is on

the right. There's a set of stairs that's over there too right and i think that goes up to the projection booth but i like to picture yeah that that also then you walk past the projection booth then there's like a bed a little gingham yeah a cot and a kitchen table oh yeah i love it but i don't really know because I haven't been up there. But that's how it is in my mind. Okay. So, basically, on the night of the reopening, I'm sorry. So, six years after the reopening.

So, they reopen it. Everything goes great. Dorothy is thrilled. And basically, they're back in business. Yay. But eventually, Dorothy has to get moved into, uh, an old folks home anyway. Um, so on the sixth anniversary of the reopening of the silent movie theater, um, Larry decides he's going to play the first movie that played there when it originally opened, which is

the movie sunrise. Um, but there's also a bunch of short films that he's playing. And it's kind of just like a big celebration of the silent movie theater. So this is January 17th, 1997. If I haven't already said that 17 times. Okay. So that night, there's like 60 people in the theater, which is packed for that. If you picture 60 people, that's like fucking wall to wall. Yeah. Half an hour into the program.

And also Larry, when they reopened it, and I don't know if he did this before, but he definitely did it on the reopening in 1990. He used to go up and introduce every night, every movie, everything in a tuxedo. Oh, I love him. Yeah. So this was like his, really his life. And people, really famous people used to go to that theater to watch movies. It was kind of like, you know, it was like a very hipster thing.

Like, I'm into movies. I'm into fucking silent movies. I know the owner. He's so cool. Whatever, whatever. Exactly. So Larry goes up and he's like, tonight it's a Buster Keaton feature, whatever. And he like, basically, if you don't know that much about silent film, you are still

introduced and kind of brought into that world in this really lovely way and he was like he made them special yeah you're not just going to see a movie it's a production yes and it's like old hollywood yeah and that was the crowning glory yeah is that a thing he's like a nightly he had a job where he got to wear a tuxedo every night. He was into it. And just so you know, after they redid the whole theater, Larry Austin kept James Van Sickle on as his projectionist. So Van Sickle was interested in films, I think,

or at least knew enough to become the projectionist. But basically, this relationship grew up out of them rebuilding the silent movie theater. And Larry Austin's friend said he was over the moon. I mean, he gets this hot, young, beefy contractor. And they're working on his the love of his life, this project, you know, that he's worked on all of his life. He they said he was so thrilled. of his life. They said he was so thrilled. There's a friend of his is in the Demons in the City of Angels where

he just says like he would look at him like when he talked like he hung the moon. I mean, he was just completely in love and they lived in the little apartment together over the movie theater. And that's the end, right? And that's the end and that's all I have to tell you about today. They adopted two children from an

Wait, really quick. yeah um something terrible happens so on this the night of the six year anniversary it's like me with the story don't tell me don't tell me about don't tell me about the crime scene photos on the night of the six year anniversary larry goes up tonight we're gonna watch sunrise and then all these other short films and da da da he goes back out into the lobby, into the ticket booth. And about half an hour into the program, a guy gets up and comes out and says he wants to buy tickets for a future showing. There's a girl named Mary Giles. I think her last name is pronounced Giles or Giles.

And she's 19 years old. She works at the concession stand. And she's like, oh, you need to talk to larry about buying future tickets and when the door opens to that ticket booth that's in the front of the theater um the guy pulls a gun a 357 magnum out of his pocket and tells larry he wants all the money from the ticket booth so larry gives him all the money he pulls everything out of the cash register and gives it to him and comes out of the booth and with mary uh he hands the money over and the guy with the gun takes the money drops it and shoots larry in the face in the face in the fucking face he shot him uh once in the face larry goes down and then he turns and shoots him like I think three more times. Oh my God.

Just like to make sure he's dead. No. Then he turns to Mary Giles and shoots her twice in the chest. She's just a fucking girl working at the. She's just a girl working at the movie theater. I didn't know that. Yeah. The way I pictured it in my head all the time is like so much different than it actually.

That it happened in the theater? Well, because also I didn't know this until the first time I went to the silent movie theater it's fucking tiny yes the there is no it's not like you know your fucking imax theater it's a tiny little space yeah a tiny office in the front yeah so this is all close quarters yes it's very close quarters like it feels almost new york style course yeah quarters it's a it's a mini like art house movie theater yeah and when you're there like that's where i went to go see um zodiac right when they redid it and it was perfect because you could see it perfectly there was no bad seats and the place was packed so it was like everyone was excited to see that movie it's like a small town movie theater reminds

me of which is like one screen that's it yeah anyways he shoots mary he fucking shoots mary also oh honey and then runs out through the movie theater so he has a front door he can run out and be right on fairfax why didn't he do that he ran through the movie theater shot into the air while these people are watching the movie and then runs out the back door where the patio is oh my. So everyone in the theater witnesses this guy with his hood pulled up shooting into the air. Of course, everyone freaks out. Yeah. So you know, the

police come, Mary gets taken to the hospital and she survives. Oh good. Two to the fucking chest and Mary survives. Two to the chest? Two to the chest. Yes. Girl. Okay. So Is everyone interviewed in the in the episode no okay um everyone was so freaked out by this i completely remember it happening i remember everybody talking about it and at the time we had just started doing standup comedy shows at Largo, which is five blocks down the street.

That's so scary. Yes. So one of the first, so the guy that owns Largo, which is now at a different, much larger location is a guy named Mark Flanagan. He's the owner operator. And he's one of those,

he's an Irishman from Belfast. He's full of shit. His eyes are dark brown. He's full of shit. And he is one of my favorite people on the planet. He's one of shit his eyes are dark brown he's full of shit and he is one of my favorite people on the planet he's one of my closest friends and he's the kind of person that starts to talk to you when you very first meet him like you've already been talking for 20 minutes i love it it's my favorite it's the kind of person that's just like anyway yeah and he this is one of the

first stories he ever told me what Because after the shooting, they had just opened Largo at that location, which is now, I think it's a bar called The Dimes? Yeah, something like that. Something like that? You're probably right. And now it's a very hipster area. It doesn't look the same at all. They like gutted it. Oh, really? They redid the whole thing? I think. Oh, I haven't been in there.

I could make that up. I don't know. But they had just opened Largo and they were just starting to get Like the music acts every night and stuff And James Van Sickle Came down and told Flanagan What happened like Larry got shot He was murdered we don't know what's happening

The police are investigating it The carpenter was telling him this What's that? The carpenter was telling him this Flanagan this? Yeah Flanagan telling me telling the story of The guy coming down and saying I don't know why I made him a carpenter was telling the contract. Yeah. This planning and telling me, telling the story of the guy coming down. I don't know why I made him a carpenter, but well, that's what a contractor is.

He can just do more than carpet. Right. So he basically comes down and says, we want to have, um, a memorial, uh, fundraiser.

Um, is there any, anything you can do to help? And Fleming's like, well, you can have it here. So they have a memorial fundraiser

for Larry Austin and for the silent movie theater at Largo. Oh my God. In March of 1997. Were you there? No. This was before. Just say yes. But remember the lies they get found out. Right, right, right.

Because then the seven people from Largo are like, I was there. You weren't there. You absolutely weren't there. But he was like, well, of course, these are our neighbors. And we want to be good people. And we just opened this business. Like, we want to play ball, whatever. It was Flanagan and John Bryan, the famed musician, who also was kind of like, had,

I don't think he was an owner, but he was kind of like had, I don't think he was an owner, but he was like, you know, this was his home club. And he, of course, wanted to help in any way. So I think part of the benefit was John played and they got other musicians to play and they raised a bunch of money and gave it to the silent movie theater in, you know, Larry Austin's name.

Yeah. Well, it turns out the same night that they have this which was uh march 12th of 1997 is the same night that the police begin to surveil james von sickle because he is the prime suspect in this murder but he doesn't know it and nobody else knows it either but as they were looking into after this crime and they start looking into who's involved in this, James Van Sickle is the one person named on Larry Austin's will of who the now what also nobody knew was the movie theater, the land and all of the films in inside the whole thing was worth over a million dollars i bet that land man if you own that land oh yeah in la in la right on fairfax yeah so holy shit they start looking into james van sickles past and his like basically his record and they find out uh he in 1988 was charged with attempted murder in a compton um case but it was dismissed after the victim failed to appear in court

um so that just that just went away goes away if the victim in 1989 he was sentenced to four years in orange county for um selling, transporting and selling narcotics. He served half that time at Chino. And he also had check fraud charges that were pending. So I guess they were still working on that. He had several aliases. He had multiple California driver's licenses Wow

Fraudster And in 1996 So the year before Larry Austin Filed a police report accusing Van Sickle Of assault and battery Oh sorry assault and robbery Wow But he ended up dropping the charges

So clearly this relationship was not as lovey-dovey as everyone thought yeah guilty yeah and there was some serious shit going on um uh detective john miller who worked on the case said they that they then came to understand that they actually had a very on and on again off off again relationship. And that was stormy. And that sometimes Van Sickle went and lived in Carson when he was not living with Larry. So it wasn't full time like everybody kind of thought. Can we stop having on again, off again relationships, people? Just off again them?

Just off it. If that's what you're going through. Off the relationship. Okay, well, Vince and I offed again once. And then on again again. Everybody does. You're allowed one time. Sure.

Otherwise, your friends are so sick of you talking about it. If it's on again, off again, it just is. Everybody knows it's a dead in the water situation. You're just like, you're needy. You just can't let it go. Okay. Advice from Karen and Georgia. There's so much.

Don't listen. But as they're looking into it, they also find that Larry Austin has a bit of a murky past himself. In 1983, he was convicted of one count of grand theft as a result of an embezzlement case at a company that he worked for. And he actually served 22 months in state prison. And then also, um, they start to look into his ownership of the theater because Dorothy Hampton, who owned it,

um, the widow, John Hampton, um, she, it being in the convalescent home, they didn't track any money going to her from the theater, even though she was the owner.

So, uh, they, they were afraid that they, it looked like he had Dorothy Hampton's blessing in this reopening and basically in the ownership of it. But, um,

they didn't have any, uh, they didn't have any proof. She hadn't signed anything over to him that they could prove. So they end up freezing the IRS and the LAPD, end up freezing Larry Austin's assets and putting the theater in a conservatorship until they can figure out what's going on. Because it's not even like, oh oh he was killed for the theater because it might not have even been his right his to give to anybody definitely so it turns out there's a break in the case what they put a sketch in the newspaper of the guy that held up the place

and somebody sees that and comes forward to the police and tells the whole story which is van sickle hired this guy who ended up doing the murder um and his name was it turns out his name was christian rodriguez he was also 19 years old and van sickle hired him uh promised to pay him 25 grand to kill larry austin and make it look like a robbery yeah and that's why he also shot Mary Giles. Right. Because it was like, oh, what would a robber do in this case? So he just fucking took another person out for free.

What a dick. Well, Van Sickles said he was going to pay him an extra five grand to kill any, basically to make it look like a robbery and kill anyone else that was there. Oh, that's horrible. I'm so glad Mary survived. Yeah. It's insane's insane it's so insane it's so fucking crazy so heartless well and what it was was he found out he was named in larry austin's will as being the person that was going to inherit everything so he would have but he apparently was in such debt and in like such financial straits. He wasn't going to, Larry Ostrom was 74 years old at this time.

Yeah. And he couldn't even wait to inherit. Yeah. He's like, I want all of it now. Dude. He was the projectionist the night of the murder. He was there. He came downstairs.

He was the one that hit the alarm that got the police there when he went downstairs and found larry's body that is such a creepy detail yes so he was there pretending to be all upset and freaked out he told all the friends the stories and all the friends were like we thought he was like completely traumatized and that this was just as much of a thing against him perfect that he was there. You know, like, it just seems like he's less, if he wasn't there, it'd be like, where was he? But, yeah, anyways.

It's kind of more proof that he was, like, right there making sure it all went well. So, essentially, he didn't pay, afterwards, he didn't pay Christian the money. Uh-uh, don't do that. Yeah, he didn't pay Christian the money. Don't do that. Yeah. And so that's why that guy, whoever the anonymous person was that came forward was basically someone who knew Christian Rodriguez and was like, he was supposed to pay this money. He didn't do it like, you know. So they when they go find Christian Rodriguez, of course Rodriguez completely turns on James

Van Sickle. So in April of 1999, Christian Rodriguez is found guilty of murder and sentenced to life without parole. And he was also convicted of the attempted murder of Mary Giles. And

Van Sickle was also sentenced to life without parole. Neither of them got the death penalty um and mary giles survived and testified against christian rodriguez yes in court she's like that's the man that shot me two times in the chest jesus insanely she's a fucking badass insane so when all that happens like the cops come to Flanagan and they ended up, the cops talked to them. We're like, are you in on it? No.

Because. Your friend Flanagan. Yes. They, the cops came almost immediately after the fundraiser because they're like, how come you're giving money to this guy? Yeah. And they're like, oh, we're trying to be good neighbors. They're immediately like looped in on it and have to basically go like yeah we don't know

and we just thought we'd be nice yeah it does look like they're like yeah let's throw a fundraiser it does let's get more money for you or whatever kind of in on it i mean they had to prove they weren't yeah they had nothing to do with it and didn't really know the guy which is one of my favorite like when flanagan told me that story, I was crying laughing because he's like, we're, like, basically faking it and trying to be nice. And, like, sure, of course we care. Yeah. And then immediately they're just like. They're like, we just started this business.

Yeah. And now we're under investigation. Yeah. For murder. Yeah. Now we're in on it. Love it. One of the saddest things and the, like, final thing that I put at the end of this is in his court

file there was a forgery charge that James Van Sickle had that they had a letter from Larry Austin attached to it that was attesting to James Van Sickle's good character trying to get him out of the forgery

charge. Because he loved him. Because he really did love him. That's so sad. It's very sad. I want to see photos of them. I'll look it up. Me and my photos, man. You love photos. I just need to use my fucking imagination.

Yeah. Wow. That's amazing because everyone knows that murder murder it reminds me of the zanku chicken murder where it's like there's this like iconic place in la and it's like here's this fucking insane story behind it yes and there are people like there was a guy that was trying to make a documentary about larry austin because of it was that kind of those early days of like, back when, you know, Larry Austin would be like, everyone would know who he is and he'd have a website these days. But back then it was like, you had to be, that was back in the, you know,

I liked them first days where everything was word of mouth. If you like something cool, it's because a cool person told you about it. It was like the secret underground thing that you had to stumble upon and know about, like comic book shops and all these record stores and yeah so there's this guy that was and this is in the episode of demons and city of angels there's a guy that was trying to make a documentary about larry austin for years and he was a big fan of the silent movie theater and this is before he got killed this is before wow and he would be like i just want to like follow you around and whatever so this guy was there to attest because he had started this documentary and he was kind of there he knew all

the players he like knew everything that was going on that's crazy yes yeah and did he ever finish it because what a fucking crazy finish to it i mean i don't know uh i mean yeah because now the finish is oh that guy got murdered yeah so i don't think i don't think so probably not yeah that's not what he want that's not the direction he wanted to go i mean it's so horrifying but i mean also if he did that would be kind of crazy could be like guess what happened because it the to me the creepiest time is after someone gets murdered and before anybody finds out who did it there's all these people who are pretending and it's like this guy james van sickle had to pretend to be the heartbroken shock traumatized boyfriend for for months like

basically up until who for months who can do that yeah those people are scary yeah well if you don't have a conscience then it's easy yeah right yeah anyway well shit that was great thanks thank you for sharing thank you for sharing karen thank you for listening yeah my pleasure um happy things this week oh yes what you got this is super dumb but i think it's a small like there's so many things i want to fix my dude to fix my house and most of them are very large and so i do that thing where if i have a bunch of things to do i don't do anything because it all becomes very overwhelming oh my god every yes right yeah so you're just like So don't do any of it don't do anything Because oh it's so hopeless and blah blah blah How do you pick one thing yeah

Because I'm like oh I need to repaint my house I need to fix there's tons of stuff That I need a contract A contractor for oh my god don't do it But Instead I was getting Other shit at Target This is not a commercial.

But I found a lamp at Target. Like, just a standing lamp to go into my front room where there's never good light. Be careful of light in your house and in your surroundings. This is freaking me out. Go on. Okay. Did we get the same lamp? A, my thing that made me happy this week was going to Target at 8 a.m. this morning b in my car is a standing lamp no is it brass colored yes a clear shade we got the same clear

shade no see through glass shade no i saw that one though i got the one that looks that looks basically like a desk lamp what the fuck yes how do we okay because well here's our periods are synced and our targets are synced and our lamps are synced now this is our new life this is our life hi you're my husband hi my wife um i was just gonna say that little change of just trying to make it look slightly nicer in the room i'm mostly in yeah it puts me in a great mood. And because I did that, when I got home from Toronto, I looked at the pile of mail on my counter, which

is just, I assume it's supposed to be there, and it just like, it gets kind of high and then I go like this and it gets really high again. I got rid of all of it. Girl, I need to do that. Yep. And that's how I found that check. Remember when I texted you? I'm like, hey, I should rip this up right, but I want to double check. Because it was like laying on top of that pile. What the fuck, man? Clear your piles, guys, clear your piles and get like one new thing that's gonna make you feel good. so dim and it compresses the shit out of me.

Yeah. Like, yeah. Ooh, let's get that lamp up here. Yes. Help me carry it. Stephen, go grab that lamp. So wait, so I just stole yours? No, no. You know what my happy thing is? That we just did that. Yay! That we just did that. Samsers. That our periods sank this week. I know that's gross, everyone.

TMI, but I got so excited and had to text you. Was that gross? I wrote back, I'm so sorry. And then she wrote back the ultimate sign of friendship. And I was like, I mean, yay. That all it means is like, we're spending quality time together. So much time.

Yeah. Yes. Oh, nice. I love it. That was great. Now I want to set that lamp up right this second. Oh, my God. Also, don't be afraid to buy like a 30 watt light bulb.

Yeah. Because everything's 60 and it's too bright. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got second. Oh my God. Also, don't be afraid to buy like a 30 watt light bulb. Yeah. Because everything's 60 and it's too bright. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Look how many, I have 18 vintage lamps in here and they're all dim. Yeah.

Well, also because you got the shades dark in it. They're like those huge shades that your grandma had. Yeah. That's what I have too. Um, cool. We've done it. We did it. We done it.

We've done it again. We've done it again. Thanks for listening, everybody. done it again We've done it again Thanks for listening everybody Thank you guys for listening You're all fucking angel babies We couldn't do it without you We're only doing it for you Yeah There's nothing without you

This is all for you We're nothing without you Yeah It's all for you And Stay sexy And don't get murdered Bye

Bye Elvis Hold on Give him a second elvis a cookie here he comes there he is look all sleeping what you doing sleepy elvis want a cookie want a cookie i like the first quiet one