My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 90 - Peak Experience

Episode Date: October 12, 2017

On this week’s My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover the Amityville Horror murders and the killer Neville Heath. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca for business. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign

to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. Stephen, you have to be like a fucking on-the on the street reporter when we're being so interesting always be recording abr everyone knows this always be recording with us if we're going to talk about gerard depardieu we need everyone to hear it in the world breaking news america

gerard depardieu admits to drinking 14 bottles of wine a day. God damn. Dude. His teeth must be more stained than mine. I mean, not stained, they're falling out. I mean, perhaps, but he's so drunk he doesn't give a fuck. I think that's how much Andre the Giant would drink. That's right.

And you know that... And yeah, he'd eat like 12 chickens and drink like 17 six-p packs of beer. I wish Vince Verhoeven could ask him because that's what he would actually do. And Vince always hated red wine. And then he found out that Andre the Giant loved Bordeaux. No, I'm sorry. He loved Beaujolais wine.

So we tracked it down. And like now we drink Beaujolais wine because Andre the Giant drank it. You know that I love Giants, right? No, wait, what? It's one of my jams. I had never even thought of that as a thing. Yeah, I'm obsessed. Oh, welcome. This is my favorite murder. The podcast. I want to start it. I'm obsessed with Giants because the rest of it was all bullshit. I mean, was it or was it some of the best podcasting we've ever done? That anyone's ever done. Breaking ground, America. Robert Wadlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records.

And if you are a child of the late 70s, early 80s, like myself, before there was the internet, before there were cell phones and smartphones, before there really even was that much TV, we just had four channels, you did things like sit in your aunt's living room and read the Guinness Book of World Records. Did that so hard. Right? Fuck yeah. Twins on, fat twins on motorcycles.

Longest nails in the world. Longest nails. Longest hair. Giants. I love giants. I had no idea. Robert Wadlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. He's the tallest man,

I think the tallest man from America. Yeah. He was, I was going to say seven foot 12. And this is my favorite murder podcast. Hello, now you know it's really us. That was like the pin number of proving that it's us by me saying Robert Wadlow was seven foot 12. Did I ever tell you my bra story when I was in elementary school? No.

I'm like, I've had flat as chest forever. Right. In the Guinness Book? Yes. As a matter of fact, it was kiddie porn. Oh, no. No, but when I was little, I had like no boobies like most kids do. But like sixth grade when girls start to get their boobies.

And so everyone was sitting around talking about like what bra size they have now and someone was like i have a 34a and i have this nut and i went well i have a 35a because i and they were like that's not i was so embarrassing yeah you just you were just trying to compete i was just trying to get in there yeah when you just look at my anyways but now i just remind you every girl in that circle did the exact same thing at a different period of time yes and that's what no one ever talks about and sometimes that's why people are so mean is because people were mean to them when it happened to them so then when someone else does it they descend like fucking and they're so happy it's on someone the attention's on someone else and not them that's what it's all about yeah do you know this is the this is the reason and i wish i

had had this when i was done is how to laugh at yourself because that just no one can fucking make fun of you if you're like oh my god i can't believe i said that stupid thing yes it doesn't affect you but i think when you're at that age like you can't laugh at yourself until you're around 37 in my in my experience That's how old I am. Well, congratulations. Thank you. I'm now laughing at myself. It's going to be so much fun.

Oh my God. I can't wait. Oh, but the thing is you have to drink 12 bottles of wine a day. You have to day part do that shit. I got about three more bottles to go today and I'm good. Let's get you there. Go there. I just love that people have these interests.

Giants for you that like you would never think of as a thing that you're really into. Have you ever heard of Anna Swan, the giantess of Nova Scotia? Of course not. I'm a normal person. She's humongous. She's humongous and amazing looking. And she married a giant. So they were they were traveling circus people because they were both huge.

I love them. And look her up because there's pictures where there are people standing in front of her looking up. And she's like two grown men standing on each other. Hiding in a dress to get into the movies. Dressed as Anna Slytherin. But I love her because apparently people. She got constant marriage proposals oh my god that's like part of her story where I'm just like what where's this world yeah I want to go to that world I want

to be a giant yeah that's fucking cool it's the best sorry I didn't mean to go back to giants no I want that's all I wanted to talk about this whole time is your obsession with giants I really do love when people have this thing that they know all about and are obsessed with. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's so cool. Hey, this is my favorite part of the podcast. That's Karen Kilgariff.

I'm Georgia Hardstark. That's right. Okay. I have a couple of things this week to talk about. Now we're really being serious. Before we start the murder. All right. Everyone can stop telling us to listen to Dirty John.

Yes, it's a new podcast. It's happening. I've listened to an episode and a half.'s the two problems i have with it one vince found out the ending and told me for some reason but i did think i'm not gonna listen just tell me and he told me oh then that's your fault it's totally my fault and then the other thing is the the women the daughters who are being interviewed in the podcast, they're from Irvine, which is where I'm from, and sound like every girl I went to high school with. And it's giving me fucking PTSD.

That's a serious problem. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want that in your head. I don't. But it's a good story. And I'm excited to listen. I mean, people are going crazy about it.

Yeah. It reminds me of S-Town a little bit. So I'm listening. I got my heart broken by S-Town. So dear John. I mean, dirty John dirty john i'm gonna need you to dear john that you mean the judd hirsch series yes um people get obsessed and here's what i love i sit back when those things hit and i just let them go i let every everything wash over and then i watch how the first wave is everyone going, this is amazing. You have to listen to it. The second wave is always, it wasn't that good or

it sucked. That's who I am. Right. And then, then I wait a little bit longer and then they'll, they'll always be someone that's like, no, here's what, here's the situation, right? Nothing's perfect, but it's like, but it gets you here and you'll like it because of this. And it's this, and it's interesting or whatever. I think it's just, it's a different, that's such a, it's like but it gets you here and you'll like it because of this and it's this and it's interesting or whatever i think it's just it's a different that's such a it's such a specific story that it's not going to appeal to everyone so they're them saying everyone's obsessed with it we're just like no some people aren't that into like you know fraud stories or whatever okay the other thing and then steven sent us this like a couple news links that some new photos from Jonestown came out. Oh.

And it's from when they're in Ghana. Right. And it's basically photos that look like, I think this is what most of them are, like from a brochure. It's propaganda. Like trying to get people to move to Jonestown? Yeah. Look how happy everyone is. They're smiling.

They're working. They're living on a commune, youestown yeah look how happy everyone is they're smiling they're working they're living on a commune you know and look how great everyone looks although you know there's no such thing as race here and everyone works and everyone loves it and the children are learning but it's all fake and then there's like one photo of uh there's a couple photos from the day they

all killed themselves oh he killed them yeah he killed them right and it's it's just fucked up so if you're into that shit like i am some new pictures sorry i had an update no please and this one lots of people have been sending and uh i appreciate it we actually talked about it at la pod fest but um kit the journalist kim wall that i did that story about that the guy built peter madsen who built his own submarine and then she was a journalist who went to do the story about it she rode around in this harbor with him and then she ended up disappearing he said that she hit her

head and that he dumped her body at sea uh and then um her a bag of her body parts were found floating in the ocean including her decapitated head with no injuries on it, which means she did not hit her head. And now Peter Madsen is being looked into for unsolved murders in Norway and Sweden. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's brand new. That's a story on AP from 10 hours ago. Oh, my God. That's brand new. That that's, um, a story on AP from 10 hours ago. Oh my God. That's fucking,

I love when, I mean, I don't love when, you know what I mean? No. Well, just that this is developing. This is an,

unlike so many things where we're like, and then we just never hear about it again. This is still a developing story. And I think it's because so many journalists loved her and she was a well respected journalist. And there's not a lot of murders there. It seems like. So it's in norway and sweden or wherever this this was denmark i think right listen look look and listen um speaking of denmark and norway we are okay i'm not gonna

fucking go down our tour dates because everyone's sick of it. I will say that next Wednesday, October 18th, my sister's birthday. We did it on purpose so I could be out of town. Great. We're going to be in Minneapolis on Wednesday. That show's not sold out. So if you want to go to that one next Wednesday. Eight o'clock? Probably.

Do you have the theater? Northrop Auditorium. Great. Yeah. Go to that. probably do you have the theater North Ope North rope auditorium great yeah go to that and oh and then next week we're finally able to announce our winter tour dates oh that's right so everybody that's been tweeting and messaging us saying come to this place come to that place next week you're going to find out where we are going to be going in 2018 right and it's going to be places we've never been to before sorry Chicago and we're going international again that's right so hold on to your butts get ready Malaysia just kidding

um oh and then I also wanted to mention really quickly and then I'm fucking gonna shut up that this is the 13th what's that this Friday is it Friday the fucking the new 11th series and I'm this is not an ad I'm really excited about this the new series on Amazon for lore the podcast comes out that's amazing I am so fucking excited for this show it's that's so cool i know they horror stories and origin stories stories of folklore is the podcast you haven't listened you should it's great um but they're doing like it's like it looks like it's animated and also documentary style and but it looks really creepy and cool and there's a i think episode two is about the dude who was like the king of lobotomies in the 50s the one with the ice picked people and cut his fucking sleeves off of his um what's it called sleeveless fucking scrubs yeah you douche yes

yeah i'm excited that's amazing so they basically go into and talk about, it's like the NPR version. It's like a visual episode of lore. Right. But in a really cool way. I'm fucking excited. So excited. I remember when they announced that they were making that show. Yeah, it was like a while ago.

It's so exciting. Turns out shows take a while to make. I had no idea. They do. I'm really excited about that. Fuck yeah, podcasts. That's very cool. Yeah.

Similarly, there's another show that's out it's on cinemax it's mike judge's tales from the tour bus and this is uh completely off of any topic of true crime or anything this is purely a joyous thing mike Judge is making and it is people who toured worked for had anything to do with country singers of the of the past telling stories about working with them so the first yes exactly we're just in general yeah the first episode is Johnny Paycheck who is the guy that wrote take this job and shove it oh yeah and it's amazing the guy was in he was a lunatic it's animated for the most part with old footage as well yeah it's yes exactly so they'll get they'll show you pictures of the album covers and some real things but then most of it is animation and it's all these band members hairdressers relatives it's so great telling stories so there's so far they've done

johnny paycheck george jones and tammy winette and jerry lee lewis which is crazy fucking married his child cousin that's right she was 14 she's on it she talks shut up yeah i need to watch that she's it's like she's in her 60s i just remember as a kid great balls of fire that movie about the biopic movie. Sure. It's not a thing. I loved it. We went and saw it at the movie theater. It was so great. It was so much fun. I loved it.

It was pedophile. Yeah. Why were they letting me watch it? Parents? Well, it was a different time. And that's why we're trying to make America great again. Can I tell you what I did watch the other? Oh, sorry.

That's okay. Speaking of pedophile. When I did watch the other day day and i hadn't realized how long ago it had been since i watched it was silence of the lambs oh yeah i've seen the ending a million times but i hadn't actually watched the first part of it it's so good i want to cry katherine martin fbi you're safe i didn't understand any of it back then you know what i mean you mean when you first watched it yeah like I didn't understand how she figured out how he knew who Buffalo Bill was

and how this and how that. Because you know why? I looked up what year it came out and I saw it in the theater and have seen it a million times. I was 11 years old. Oh, shit. When I watched Science of the Lambs

in the fucking theater. That's hilarious. He threw cum at her face. Yes, he did. And I was was like what was that georgia the idea that you i didn't know how could they let me watch that no wonder i have a fucking true crime obsession it's true that's so funny because you were 11 watching that down in irvine i was 21 in sacramento and kindred spirit we watched it at the tower theater and i remember

this thing rolling out in front of me and I had already read the book and I was watching it every second of it. I was just like, this is the best movie. This is the best movie ever. Like I was losing my mind. So happy. It was my star Wars.

Amelie was my star Wars. Cause I was like a hipster 19 year old. Like I love her. I want to be her. That movie's amazing. That movie holds up. Oh, for sure. So charming want to be her. That movie's amazing. That movie holds up. Oh, for sure. Love it.

So charming. Yeah. Signs of the Lambs. Thanks, mom and dad. You've ruined me. Now look at me. I'm the best. I pick loving myself over photos.

Do it. I'm trying. It's just that I had a really good day of loving myself up until I opened Twitter and saw this picture where I'm like, am I in denial that I'm going bald and just not seeing it? What the fuck happened? And then I'm like, Oh,

that's right. It's my gray roots. Yeah. Fuck. Fuck it. Fuck everything. Fuck it. Fuck the world.

Yeah. Fuck it. I mean, look, Molly said on the phone the other day, she was like, I mean, the bomb's going to drop on the phone the other day, she was like, I mean, the bomb's going to drop, right?

So let's do this thing. She was talking about like, I was flirting with a barista or something like that. And then I was just like, oh my God, you're so right. It's nothing matters. We're on a clock here, people. Nothing matters. But water is currency. Water is currency. Let's have some peak experiences before

things go to shit you know what i mean experiences sound like someone something someone on their way to um burning man would say totally we're about to have a peak experience yeah let's try to get out there every day and if if your peak experience is drinking nine bottles of wine do it my peak experience is staying at home and chilling out and watching. Oh, I paid. Oh, my God. Okay, last thing. I swear to God.

Vince was gone all week out of town. So I was like going to be my fucking natural self, which is turns out the most disgusting person. Like the sheets had been taken off before we left. And I didn't ever put sheets on my bed. Oh, I just slept on the random sheets i threw on top of so you were kind of squatting in your own house i was squatting i'm gross it was terrible and then one night i was like i'm staying home and drinking whiskey and i

want to watch cold case files and then i get a text from vince saying you're watching cold case files and i realized it was because I had just spent $20 on season one of Cold Case Files on our Amazon and it's under his name and so it emailed him to let him know that his wife just spent $20 to watch season one of Cold Case Files.

Of a show that probably if you put it into your DVR it would bring up 29 episodes of it. If you go to YouTube it's like, here's everything for free. And you're like, no, I'm going to pay premium. No, I want Bill Curtis to have that money. I think he needs more brown leather jackets and I'm going to be the one that buys them for him. You know what?

I owe him. He has narrated our lives. He's narrated my life. He has brought a somber and reasonable attitude. Very reasonable. To some terrible, um murders and crimes yep and he's been there for us thank you bill i mean he let us know that justice was right around the corner oh my god i love cold case files okay was he the host of cold case you know what's weird

danny glover was originally the host no what the fuck excuse me swear to god except fact check that steven like swear to almost i think but you know it's gonna be some actor that's like super similar but i can never remember who's whom yes who's whom though you do remember to say whom i mean i'm not that stupid uh oh i should say this the northern california wildfires are intense and crazy and huge swaths of where i grew up is burning down right now oh my god if you have spare money and are looking to give it and there's one million places to give it these days puerto rico obviously is in dire need but also there are people in northern california who literally have nothing right now so those i'm obsessed with those photos which is terrible but in a fucking the comparative ones of

the neighborhood and it's just like the thought of your house being turned to fucking ash yeah and those people the people that it's like there's a neighborhood slightly north of the main city of santa rosa but s but Santa Rosa is the next city up from Petaluma that's where we used to go to the mall to get clothes for school you had to go to the next city um and the neighborhood it's like a little bit north of that of the main city the people were woken up at 1 30 in the morning with people just saying run they didn't get any kind of emergency like it was just panic grab whatever you could and run out of your house as you're as like the flames

were coming to ever think about like aside from pets obviously what you would grab yeah it's pictures i think mostly like my computer that's the good thing is my sister started packing tonight just in case because there's still more fires and everybody now just wants to be ready. But we were like, everything's on the computer. Like pictures are now on computers. Like there's a couple of old things. I love this house, but like, I mean, I love my shit, but it's all just tchotchkes. It's all, that's what I said to my sister.

I go, we can replace anything in your house. Grab anything that's irreplaceable If you can Yeah, I guess there's a photo album I don't know, whatever You guys stay safe Oh, look at Steven What you got, Steven? Oh, nice

Oh, hello, Redwood Credit Union They have a North Bay Relief Fund 100% of donations go to fire victims Wow It's basically if you go onto the website Of the Redwood Credit Union Have a North Bay Relief Fund. 100% of donations go to fire victims. Wow. This is, it's basically if you go onto the website of the Redwood Credit Union and then go onto North Bay Fire Relief, they have its own separate page. And then there's just a donate button. Nice.

And that's so awesome because it's, that Redwood Credit Union has been in Northern California since I can remember. And all of your money goes to the relief. That's beautiful. So that's awesome. That's so cool. Thanks, Stephen. That's great. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac e-transfer for business or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus your payments are safe with

authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interac.ca slash for business terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. and conditions apply. political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. Are you first or am I first? I think it's you, Stephen. I think it's me too. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Are we counting that? Yeah. We're counting what happens to us. We're counting what we decide. Yeah, exactly. And I'm going to go first. All right.

Have a peak experience with this one. All right. It's October. Everyone's favorite month. It's fucking Halloween time. Listen, let's do this. It's like you're giving me a sales pitch in a voice that says I'm not interested. I'm not interested in working with you.

Well, I did this murder because I wanted to do it. And then I realized I could fucking tag it on to the fact that it's Halloween time. Oh, yeah. But it's very loose. Okay. So I don't, I'm not, I'm not married to it. You know what I mean? Got it.

And I also watched this, the way I actually did think of doing this is I watched this movie on Netflix, like a Netflix movie that I had heard nothing about called Little Evil that ended up being so fucking good. Oh, good. The mother was Evangeline Lilly, and she married a man who became the spawn of Satan's stepdad. And it is Adam Scott. Oh, and it's so charming and so cute and funny. I don't know how this just like went under the radar. And Bridget Everett is like his sidekick. Wow.

It's such a charming movie. So it's like it's it's like comedy. It's a dark comedy. That's awesome. It's so good. So please go watch it. And comedy it's a dark comedy that's awesome it's so good so please go watch it and then i thought oh that's fun so here it is here's the story the real story behind the amityville horror yes you ready for this okay just really quick and i know i've said this a thousand times the hardback cup the hardback book of the Amityville Horror,

so it's shaped like a paperback, but it had a hard white cover, was the book in my grammar school library that I checked out so many times Sister Rita Rose got mad at me. I forgot that it was that book, and now I feel like I've stolen a murder from you. You have not? Okay. And I celebrate this

and i'm thrilled okay i want to tell baby karen a little karen about this story well she's right here well i'm gonna tell her right now no i don't want you to that's what she's like all right so of course everyone knows about the amityville horror the movie it's this haunted house that's like uh you know inhabited by satan and all this bullshit but i don't know people maybe don't know that it's actually based on an actual story that happened before the haunting that's right i was a huge fan of the book me and sister rita rose what i loved about the book is the fact or this story whether or not it's true is it starts out as oh they find out this horrible thing happened in their house but then they find

out that there's something else going on so they but that could completely be for like the book and movie who knows if that part is real i'll fucking tell you sweet yeah here we go yeah all right so the family the defao family they consist of Ronald DeFeo senior he's 44 and his wife Louise 42 Ronald is a car salesman at the family dealership super fucking successful mob ties maybe perhaps probably pretty much definitely I mean don't don't all Italians have mob ties oh my god she just offended a quarter of our listeners um how dare you so the the random fucking uh car dealership is doing so well in brooklyn that the that the defao family is able to move from their apartment in brooklyn to a three-story colonial in the charming town of

amityville on long island about an hour outside of the city do the whole thing in that voice okay i was trying to be a um real estate agent oh that's fun yeah that's why you put that neckerchief on and bake some cookies yep um all right they chose this home and as you saw on the cover of the Amityville book, it's a piece of Americana, two stories, plus an attic. It's huge and sprawling. There's a boathouse right on the Amityville River. And out front, they put a sign post that says, High Hopes, basically naming the house.

So it's this gorgeous, huge colonial house. It has eyes. It looks like it has eyes because it has these two windows up in the attic that look like eyes yeah so the oldest of the DeFeo children is Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. he's born on September 26 1951 Ronald Sr. the dad is a domineering man he would fucking pick fights with his wife and children. He was physically abusive. And the target of a lot of this abuse was Ronald Jr.

I'm going to call him Butch, partly because he was the eldest. So there's a lot of expectations on him. And it's said that he would beat the shit out of him. He'd throw him against a wall and hit his head. So there's the head injury aspect that we all know and love. So as Butch gets older he starts fighting back and um he's also known as a bully at school he's just like angry mean kid um always get bullied bullies are bullies because they've been bullied exactly

so the parents they try to take him to butch to a psychiatrist he fucking refuses to go and so instead they're like let's just appease and placate him and they start buying him anything he wanted and giving him money like that's their solution i bet it worked right i mean you know what the only way we would know if someone would do it to us. That's where we should try it. That's all I'm saying. What a bizarre plan. I mean, like, because I understand that they were rich, but that I feel like never in the history of man has that worked. Oh, clearly it's never worked.

But I understand, especially back in the 70s. It's like, well, here's what we'll do. If he's never unhappy, he's never going to get mad. You know? Right. And so they start buying him a bunch of shit, including a $14,000 speedboat when he was 15. $14,000 today would buy you a nice car. Back then, can you imagine?

This. Okay. So these people, something happened and they're swimming in money. Why would the son's owner of a car dealership in Brooklyn have that much fucking money? I mean... Quality salesman. He's really friendly and he's got a couple pinky rings. Not just one like normal car salesman, but a couple. Well, that's the other thing too, is he looks like Tony Soprano.

Yeah. He's got that big bulky you know um intimidating presence he's kind of uh you know he speaks like a Long Islander sure which I will refuse to do and hey the parkway's over by my pocketbook it's a lot of that kind of shit why is there a parkway by his pocketbook it's those are the two words that remind me of Long Island because my friend Vicky I used to work with my friend Vicky who is from long island and those are the first like two things i heard her say on like one of the first days that we worked at ellen together where i was like where are you from there's no such thing as a parkway out here yeah and pocketbooks wallets

stop it calm down she also used to always say food shopping. I'm going to go food shopping where I'm like, that's just shopping. You know, I don't care. You have to specify. Yeah. No, we get it. It doesn't matter. I had, I just got my food shopping done. How about you?

I just went shopping for food. How about you? Don't tell me about your fucking errands. Just how about we all do it. Listen, I love you. Italians, Vicky and Long Islanders vicky ernst apologies in advance um okay of course not surprisingly it only made things worse and by 17 butch had become an lsd and heroin user oh which is like heroin in the 70s. Crazy, right? That's when it was really organic.

It's just a gorgeous golden brown. It was like a pure trip. It was more of it was what the Native Americans did around that area. It's like a peace pipe, but with heroin injected into your arm. I do feel like, though, people were so naive about drugs in the 70s. Like my friend Jerry had a story about doing, I think they called it window pain, which is that intense acid from the 70s like i my friend jerry had a story about doing i think they called it window pain which is that intense acid from the 70s she said they were tripping for days no every day they saw the whole world in a different color so the first day it was red and the second

day was purple and i was kind of cool but i don't want that it sounds it makes me sick to my stomach no i was thinking that too it's's just like, won't ever end. And that was just like, because they walked home from school and a guy was like, hey, do you want to buy this acid? Oh, he loved it. He loved making them trip that hard.

Oh, fuck that. Crazy. Okay. I ate crayons as a joke once when I was on LSD. Let's not talk about it. My friend and I were like, let's chew these crayons up and see what happens when we spit

them out i bet it'll be really pretty oh my god cut this immediately was it pretty it was gorgeous i wore a vinyl dress to my own christmas party and i was answering the door and people were like are you okay and then i realized it was because my i was so cold my lips were blue but i was like this outfit is amazing i look like I'm from space. Hosting a party on acid. Not a good idea. Never, ever. Don't do drugs.

Okay. Don't do drugs, everybody. Expelled from school as well. So at 18, he's expelled from school and they're like, you know what? You know what will fix him? Let's give him a job at the family car dealership. Yes. Let's do that.

There it is. Let's not give him a lot of responsibilities and let's give him a large salary boom sorry you're reading me the donald trump story what's happening oh political you better be careful i like them till they got political the fucking mom okay so he's the boss's son asshole that's coming in on a full salary but doesn't have to do anything the boss's son the and then the boss's boss's grandson oh and he's just like pay me motherfuckers how about you pay me and he looks like he looks and he's probably the original brooklyn hipster he looks like this brooklyn hipster sideburns what more do you need sideburns beard like 70s garb but it's because it's in the 70s right you know what i mean it's not just like fucking uh bed bug used outfits from a thrift

store right it's the real deal it is real so okay um but he's he uses the money the salary he makes to buy guns alcohol and drugs and continues his shitty behavior which included runs with the law blah blah blah okay once during a fight between his so his mom and dad were fighting meaning the dad was like fucking bullying the mom butch points a 12 gauge shotgun at his father and pulls the trigger the gun malfunctioned and didn't fucking shoot oh my god so this guy's out of his mind um so in the weeks before the murder this thing happened where uh but it's 1974 butch is given the job of depositing more than 20 grand in from the car dealership to the bank they're like go to the bank deposit this use your boat use your boat which is like why are you giving this kid that

money and not surprisingly he reports that he had been robbed at gunpoint while he was waiting at a red light but he had actually planned the mock robbery and at first the dad seemed to believe it but when the police showed up to question him which is like stick with your story bro he fucking loses his shit and is super pissed off and refuses to cooperate and then so his dad realizes something isn't right and he thinks his son is up was up to it um and butch threatens to kill him so to kill the dad again yeah now a week later cut to the early morning hours of November 13th, 1974. The family is sleeping and Butch goes around with a shotgun. So the first shot, he goes into his parents' room.

They're sleeping on their stomachs. The first shot hits Ronald Sr. in the back, tearing through his kidney and exiting through his chest. He fired another round into his back and it pierces his father's spine and lodged in his neck he's dead then he shoots his mother uh twice as well it shatters her rib cage collapses her right lung and physical evidence shows that louise's mother was awake when she was shot like she went to turn around to see what was going on. They're both on their stomachs when they're found.

Then Butch goes into his sweet baby brother's rooms. Mark, who's 12, and John Matthew, who's nine, and shoots them both while they're face down in their beds. And then he ends by shooting his sister's point blank

versus Allison, who's 13, and he shoots her in the face and then is young and she's killed instantly. And then he turns on his sister, Dawn, who's 18 and shoots her in the head, blowing off the less the left side of her face. So fucking brutal with a shotgun. So just after 3 a.m. in a span of less than 15 minutes, Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. had brutally slain every member of his family. They were all found lying on their stomachs in bed.

Butch showers, trims his beard, gets dressed in jeans and work boots, and then he collects his bloody clothing and the rifle, wraps them up in a pillowcase and uh on his way to work he disposes of the pillowcase and everything in it by tossing them into a stream a warm drain i spelled that wrong tossing them into a storm drain and that's where the clown from it was waiting that's the scariest thing i've ever heard in my life why did you say that well that's what i think of when i think of storm drains totally that or That or JFK being killed because they arrested someone in a storm drain right after it happened. No. Yeah. You know what?

Maybe I'll do it one day. Shit. I'd never heard that. Yeah. Every time I walk George, my dog, there's a storm drain that we always walk by and she always has to go and stick her head down in it. No. And every time I'm like, if that fucking clown from it is in there, I am going to lose it.

She's going to get her head chomped off. By what? A clown. She loves it in there. So many smells. So many raccoons. Okay. Then tosses it in a storm drain.

Then goes to work at the car dealership at 6 a.m oh all by himself yeah yeah goes to work at the family car dealership family car dealership and i think they were like what are you doing here at 6 a.m it's weird anyways like you know me butch how much i love working yeah getting along with people want to get an early start come on i got my boots on my jeans my beard is trimmed so throughout the morning he keeps saying like i don't know why my dad my dad's not here yet so he keeps calling home um he leaves work around noon and he spends the day with his friends and to secure an alibi he tells them that um that he couldn't seem to reach anyone at home to let them know that he's like trying. And hey, look, no one's answering.

He ends up at a bar real close in Amityville, real close to his house. And then is like, hey guys, I'm gonna go check on my family. It's so weird that I haven't heard from them. And then at 6.30 that night, he bursts back into the bar and yells, you gotta help me.

I think my mother and father are shot. So Butch and a small group of people from the bar went to the home and they found the whole family dead in their beds. When the detectives questioned Butch about who could be a suspect in the murders, he told them that he believed that a mafia hitman named Louis Fellini

may have been responsible and that his whole family was like in with the mob and that they had wronged the Fellini family in some way and they were pissed off at him. So he then gives them the alibi of I've been gone all day. And when I left the house this morning, my whole family was I think they were still alive. So they the police take him into protective custody while they search for the suspect. But when they searched the house, they found an empty box for a recently purchased 35 caliber Marlin gun. It's for you gun people in Butch's room.

And when the timeline came together, it's it placed Butch at home at the time of the homicides, not after he left. So when they question him, he begins to change his story. He says that Fellini had appeared at the house early that morning, put a revolver to his head and dragged him from room to room as they murdered his family. Him and an accomplice murdered his family, making Butch watch. Then eventually under questioning, he broke down and confessed to killing his family saying once i started i just couldn't stop it went so fast on trial his defense lawyer william weber tried to prove that he was insane saying that he heard demonic voices that told him to kill his family but the psychiatrist for

the prosecution proved that he suffered from antisocial personality disorder, which doesn't mean you're crazy. The illness made him aware of his actions, but motivated by a self-centered attitude. And even at one point during the trial, he threatened to kill both his own lawyer and the judge. They put him on the stand. And this dude is just like fucking crazy as shit. Yeah. It seems like that's his solution to a lot of problems is I'll kill you. Yeah.

Yeah. Which really, you know, as we're learning is a non-solution. Yeah. It's this thing of like people pretending to be crazy to get the verdict the verdict of insane and it's like no you're just proving what a piece of shit you are and you're also understanding that you need to plot this out so it makes you look sane because you understand reasoning and plotting yes there's not the insanity part isn't there it's but you are clearly either a sociopath or just the most rotten spoiled child of all time like is that where spoiling children can get you yeah because that should be a psa

all those kids that are fucking screaming out loud in restaurants it's like get a hold of it now yeah or you're gonna go the route of the mr butch. Amen. Or at least something close. Or you're just annoying everyone else around you. And like, I'm trying to eat in peace. Yeah. Just no screaming. How about the rule of no screaming? No screaming.

And if your child is screaming, take them outside. Or how about you glare at your child? No one wants you to hit them. No. But how about a good icy... My father used to stop us in our tracks with the look on his face. Oh, my God. Like, you've gone too far.

Well, also, he was very large and intimidating. So, I'm sure he only had to look at us. We'd be like, ugh. And you'd just like, ugh. Yeah. Sit exactly where you were. This is not going well. Mm-mm.

Stop right now. Yeah. I love it. So, on November 21st, 1975, the jury finds butch guilty on six counts of secondary murder he sentenced to six consecutive life sentences but all these questions and this is like one of the reasons why this murder is still big to this day and people still debate it when it's clear that he just this fucking crazy dude on acid and heroin who was a piece of shit narcissistic asshole just killed his entire family there are things that are weird that make people question what really

happened and think that it didn't happen that way. So one of them, which I totally understand and want to know the answers to is how did he shoot six people in four different rooms without any of them waking up or trying to escape? Yeah. And they're all, they're all on their stomachs when they're shot. So one turned over to be like what the fuck was that um like they were drugged well that's what i thought too okay no drugs in any other systems really period oh yeah and no neighbors

heard the rifle blasts at all and this is a fucking rifle yeah the defense experts conducted an experiment on the marlin rifle and found that it's report report or report report report report it's spelled report guys it's just a report its noise was so loud that it could be heard almost a mile away it's a rifle yeah so how did none of the neighbors hear it and you can see photos they weren't that far away the neighbors they were like literally next door i mean he must have done i mean like then did he put rum in something i mean like he must have affected them in some way right but how did the neighbors not hear it either oh oh like silencer no nothing no there's no silencer there's no drugs in the system alcohol i doubt it either well but i mean could there be a silencer no nothing no there's no silencer there's no drugs in the system alcohol i doubt it either well but i mean could there be a silencer that they didn't find i don't know yes i'm putting

it out i'm gonna say yes i'm putting it out there even though i i don't know rifle silencer it's probably satan could be satan yeah it is weird everybody's sleeping on their stomachs yeah that's why isn't one person sleeping on their side? Right? Like a normal human being. Or did he, you know, there's this, the obvious answer to me is that he went from room to room and was like, stay down. There's someone in the house and like warn them that like, don't move.

I'm going to protect you. Maybe. But then why wouldn't the dad get up? And then why would the neighbors hear the shots? Well, because he killed the dad first. He went and killed the dad and the mom, went into the room i was like you guys stay in here something's something's happening oh that's fucked okay stay on your why stay on your stomach stay on your stomach because i'm weird you know what else he could have walked in the room and they were sitting up and he said lay down on your stomach and then shot them

because he didn't want to see their faces when he killed them true but he shot one of his sisters in the face he did maybe he was particularly hateful of that sister maybe maybe which is it is a thing that they fought a lot too don the older sister who was 18 well but then there's also the theory oh sorry are you doing more theories which one are you gonna do the theory that don was his co-conspirator and she's shot people let's go to that one. Okay. Let's go to the tapes. So years, it wasn't until years later, though, that Ronnie changed his story again while he was in prison and said that his sister Don was involved in the murders. Now, listen, Ronnie makes up so many stories that you just, they're all bullshit.

Yeah. They're all bullshit, but here they are. That she had actually planned the murders with him to kill their parents after they had a huge fight with them. Um, but they had no plans to kill the siblings. And then, uh,

so she went to kill the parents. And when he found out, Ronnie found out that Donna had also killed the kids. She was so pissed off. He was so pissed off. Um, she had wanted to eliminate them as witnesses that he wrestled the gun from her and shot her in the head himself so the only person

he was guilty of killing was this murderer his sister i mean that sounds like absolute bullshit abso-fucking-lutely okay yeah i mean it's just it sucks that we can't get any information about what their home life was really like from anyone but DeFeo and secondhand, you know, boyfriends and friends saying what it was like. But from all their accounts, it wasn't good. Yeah. the original police investigation that traces of gunpowder were found on don's nightgown indicating that she may have fired a weapon but i guess it's also proven that if someone shoots you at close range you can get that as well yeah then he claims that his sister don shot his father then says a their mother distraught over that shot don and her three youngest kids so that the mother that don killed the dad the mother killed don don and the other three youngest children then shot herself and then when when butch found out he flies into a rage and fired one bullet at his wounded mother who had just shot himself so the only person he shot was

the like it's just but all that happens way later he said he makes these stories up later no no i get it i'm saying like the reason that doesn't fly is because of the laying down on the stomachs thing yeah like all you can't have that kind of chaos and then everyone end up in the same position i mean it's just doesn't seem such a same position. I mean, it's just like such a far-fetched theory. It's stupid. Like to believe it is idiotic, especially with only the fucking testimony

of a fucking crazy person who's trying to get himself away from any responsibility of what happened. Yeah, it almost sounds like somebody he like was sitting in jail bored and he's like, maybe they'll listen to me if I just make up a new story. Totally. Totally.

So in 1975, let's get to the fucking haunting shit real quick. Also total bullshit. In 1975. Now we're in a fight. Karen the Catholic. This is my favorite story. You can't say it's bullshit. I'm sorry.

It's my favorite. I know. I want to believe it so much much too but the more i'm reading them where i'm like oh i know and the movie when i was a kid scared the shit out of me i also looked up when that was made and i was like nope too young to have watched this what like 82 something crazy like that i don't know steven look it up because that would mean i was only two that's the jim roland movie right where he has the beard and he's like super nuts a gorgeous movie they keep going to that digital clock that it's like 3 12 or whatever time it was that it happened 15 or something yeah and he keeps waking up all right so it's based on the fact that george and kathy lutz they buy about a year after this they buy the defo house for 80 grand.

They knew about the murders, but they were like, it's cool. We don't believe in shit, Steven. 79. The night wasn't boring yet. 79. So I watched it in the womb. I think I watched it on like a Friday night. Yeah, it was on TV.

Classics or whatever. No, it's because I remember watching it in my aunt's living room and i wouldn't have watched it when i was nine yeah it was on tv we must have been home alone turned it on and then i wanted to kill myself it was like a creature features thing yeah you're just like what's this yeah it terrified me remember the flies on the window the flies in the window wasn't there a scene where like all the they were standing outside of the house when they had left it and all the lights were flicking on and off and all this crazy shit was going on inside yes that scared me more than anything i ever had until i watched it wow i mean it's not that big of a deal i was a scaredy cat as a kid it's a very big deal thank you all right okay so they buy the house they're like no big deal it's a we got a good deal on it. So George and Kathy and Kathy's three kids from a different marriage moved in.

That doesn't matter. Then weird shit starts happening. What's happening? What? It doesn't matter. I mean, I don't need to specify that she had three kids from a different marriage, you know? It was just like... It's fine.

Okay. Like, I don't want to shame her. Like, oh, she's a divorcee with three kids. Like, I don't want to shame her like she's a oh she's a divorcee with three kids like I don't know why I did that like I'm not judging her it seems like information you're trying to convey I don't need to it's unnecessary and it seems so they were born out of wedlock no listen let me tell you about her life okay she was a tramp okay so they have a priest come to bless the house he said he felt an unseen hand slap him yes in one of the rooms and heard a voice saying get out get out um they said that they had crazy

things happen like windows lock windows and doors would lock inexplicably and then open and close a devilish creature was seen outside the window at night george was seemingly quote possessed by an evil spirit and green slime oozed from the walls and ceiling the family uh there was apparitions of hooded figures clouds of flies i think i already said that um cold chills personality changes sickly odors objects moving about on their own and then the youngest let's child a little girl became friends with a devilish pig uh evil demonic pig imaginary friend called jody yeah um jody the pig jody the pig good old jody the pig and then kathy reports that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands and that one

night she was levitated off of her bed shit and then um george says his wife was physically transformed into an old woman with the face and hair and wrinkles of a 90 year old woman, which I'm like, that's insulting. Keep that to yourself. You know what I mean? Like when Vince is like, you have too much makeup on. It's like, shut up. You know what I mean? But it was demonic forces.

It wasn't just like, I fear you. I fear your old age in the future. Okay. And then he'd wake up at 3 15 every morning oh three when the murders happened so just 28 days after they moved in they fled the house they left all their clothes in the closets and food in the refrigerator by the way when they bought the house it had all of the defaos furniture still in it except for the mattresses where the kids were fucking murdered no way so what the fuck is wrong with you people like redecorate man like the real estate agents

like uh you can buy this as is yes that's and it's a bargain you know that murder house in los feliz that's been fucking closed up forever yeah like can you imagine buying it be like well this is great vintage furniture just leave it yeah no well you'd have to really sage that thing yeah you'd have to really clap those corners you'd have to light some sage and then light the house on fire with it and burn it to the fucking ground go ahead and take that insurance check yeah and buy yourself some mid-century modern furniture and figure your shit out yeah and stop buy a mcmansion um okay so they end up publishing the account of the hauntings in a book that was written by that they worked on on with Jay Anson called the Amityville horror true story, which we all know and love, um,

published as nonfiction in 1976 sold more than 6 million copies. Um, film version comes out huge box office success. The Lutz has become famous. They later admit it was a hoax. No. Yeah. When concocted with the help of butch's defense lawyer william weber remember him who was like no he's crazy he heard demonic voices so they said it wasn't ghosts they had all these fucking psychics and mediums come in i was like there's no ghost here it's it's demonic possession which i believe in ghosts sure fine, fine. Let's have it. But demonic possession is fucking stupid. I don't know.

Famous last words. So William Weber's angle was... Georgia just turned her head all the way around. And then I vomited in her face. William Weber, I remember, was trying to say that... Basically using this account who, by the way, they said that they came up with after a few bottles of wine oh my god i forgot that part with the let's says that to like to prove that the house was possessed and so is butch and he was not responsible basically um yeah that's why the

family was killed so ronnie's still in prison all of his appeals and requests to the parole board to date have been denied and that's the amityville horror and the murder of the defao families it's so family the question of how he got those that family killed in that manner is so vexing and so fascinating but which way that they're on their stomachs just that like yeah how do you take a rifle and shoot six people or five people um and have people not here and have the people not wake up and have you know what i mean like that's the weirdest part by the fifth person in the family they've heard now four gunshots and they know that their older brother is fucking crazy yeah like that's the other thing too especially don who was 18 and grew up with him it's like they know their brother is

crazy and and the whole town was like as soon as they found out what happened was like well butch did it like everyone fucking knew he was crazy yeah so but in the amityville horror book they talk about this red room that's in the basement. Yes. And how it's filled with evil and all this stuff. And I was so fascinated by this. It's almost like they centralized where the evil was coming from. Yeah. And people tried to go in there and they would get crazy headaches and all this weird shit would happen.

I was so fascinated by that. It doesn't exist. I'm sorry. It exists, Karen, in your mind karen it's in your heart and soul it's fine i feel like at the heart of every story like that is is i know people want to go like oh my god the devil has been here and there's flies on this sewing room window but at the end of the day the truth of it is a spoiled asshole drug addict killed his family, which is the thing people can't face because it's not a monster. And Andy, like, how could someone kill children?

Right. Who had nothing to do with any of this. It's like. So you'd rather be like the devil did it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's easier.

Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm sorry. sorry oh what a story i love it um i can't believe i didn't do that i know i can't believe i can't believe i did it didn't even cross my mind that that was the story i don't know why i was thinking of the omen as that story oh yeah because he's the he's this for you though like the mark the book you checked out i totally forgot oh yeah girl but i mean it makes it even worse that you could check that book out it was so scary it was horrifying oh my god it was very detailed and i mean the nun that was mad at me was the scariest part of all right right i did my usual thing where i was watching on

tuesday i was watching true crime shows all day. And then I'm like, well, I didn't do anything today. So I better pick one of these, an episode of one of these things and do my murder from one of these shows that I just watched. Great.

And actually a ton of people told me this and I knew it, but I didn't realize they were saying, so there's a show called murder maps on Netflix. And it's basically all these murders that have taken place in London. Or I think England generally. But mostly London. Okay. And most of them are really old.

And it's such a good show. And the guy that's the narrator host. I think his name is Nicholas Day. Is so dramatic and awesome. And it's just great. I love it. And so there was. i'd already watched the first two seasons so every time people would be like you've got to watch murder maps i'd be like girl i've been there and back well there was a season three and i didn't know i think that's what people were trying to tell me yeah i'm gonna

try to be a better listener um so that's what i was watching and so this is this this is the story of neville heath the lady killer so i'm gonna take you oh also i just want to say it so it's this episode of murder maps there's a guy that's one of the talking heads and his name is neil root and he wrote a book called frenzy uh colon heath high and christ. And it's basically about the three British serial killers that were caught after world war two. And they're John, um, Christie.

I can't remember if I did him or not, but he's that guy. I don't think I did. He's really fucked up. Um, I can't remember what the other guy is. And then the third guy is my guy, uh,

for this. Um, and it's just fascinating because there was, maybe the high guy is my guy for this. And it's just fascinating because there was maybe the high guy is there was somebody that during World War Two, during like the Blitz, when London was getting the fuck bombed out of it. I read about him. He was killing people. Like in an alley or something like that. Yeah. They would find bodies and they would assume, oh, this must be another thing from the bombing.

Another victim. Victim. Thank you. Trophy. would assume oh this must be another thing from the bombing another um victim victim thank you trophy oh it's been a long day it's been a long day okay so anyway this is this these were all really good stories but i this guy was especially interesting so i'll give you a little history as they do in murder maps to kind of set the scene yes um may 8th 1946 it's victory um victory in europe day is what they called it so finally world war ii is over and england and london specifically have just gotten the shit beaten out of oh yeah it's pretty amazing how badly London was bombed and made it. If you go look at, there's a lot of those photos of before and after.

Yeah. And it's insane. It's insane. And what I really loved and what this show is really good at doing is they started talking about how it affected the culture. how it affected the culture. So for over six years, basically, all of the men left, went off to fight war. All of the women took over their jobs. I never knew this, but in that time, women had hard labor jobs. And they were talking about it in the setup of this and women what's the uh women built the waterloo bridge in london no way and when the guy

when the narrator says that in the show it cuts to this live black and white footage of all these women sitting in basically what looks like men's work gear smoking cigarettes and like sitting on the bridge yeah as like taking a lunch break from building it dude and that's what happened you know as everybody knows like all the men were gone so women became truck drivers women worked in factories made bombs did all the went into the army themselves like it's kind of amazing so then when the war ended and all these soldiers came back they thought they were just going to take their jobs again and like everything would be normal but this culture shift had changed that was so radical where women were like well fuck you we had to do it out of necessity and now we're like we can do

it and also why didn't you tell us pants were so comfortable yeah how dare you keep pants from us for this long only the horse ladies got pants that's bullshit so so i think that's kind that part is very exciting where it was like a woman's movement purely by necessity where they were it's the whole we can do it thing where it's like not only can you do it you're fully going to do it and then you're going to want to keep doing it even though men are back and they're like now i work at the factory and they're like get the fuck out of here buddy they didn't do that but it was a hard uh you know uh of course soldiers had a hard time re-acclimating in all ways but then especially culturally because this was a world that they didn't live in before they left or women were just like, yeah, I'll take care of it.

And they're traumatized. I mean, they'd seen horrible things. And everyone was desensitized now that they'd all lived through those who lived through this horrible time in life. They said that, because, you know, like, true crime and crime has always been huge especially in england and in um i don't know if it's georgian england in like early 1800s england it was really popular um but after world war ii people in you know people who would watch their neighbors be blown up by bombs or lost their brothers and husbands and um you know boyfriends in the war they'd all become incredibly desensitized so they weren't people didn't shy away or like death and murder were

not taboo anymore they were very interested in it because now it was like it's not happening to me that makes sense so they're finally like oh i can read a story where it's not me with the bullet coming at me it's like this happens and it's not me with the bullet coming at me. It's like this happens to somebody else. And it's not in the fucking battlefield and all this. Exactly. It's like a huge, almost a bigger relief. Right. So that's kind of like the world they live in.

One of the people, oh, and also this is just an interesting aside, and they had video of these guys. The true crime reporters of the time from all those major newspapers in london they themselves became famous because the stories they reported were getting so popular they called them the murder gang and they were like reporter of the crime crime reporter from the sun the crime reporter from the you know whatever all those newspapers are it was kind of the beginning of British tabloid reporting. And these true crime guys were like big time. The true crime gang. The murder gang. Oh, that's what I meant.

Yes. I could feel that. So they were kind of like local stars. One of the guys that came back at this time was a man named Neville Heath. at this time was a man named neville heath now he was not like he although he was um very good looking he kind of looks like the actor patrick wilson you know that guy he's like blonde kind of wavy hair cleft chin he was in like little children he was in um yeah he was in all the conjuring movies he plays that yeah he's great. This guy looks like that guy. He is a tall, beautiful, blonde man who had gone off and was in,

he had joined the RAF in 1937 when he was still a teenager. But he had, he came from like a nice middle class family, always had problems with criminal behavior, always petty theft, doing little things here and there. When the war effort started, he was like, I want to be a pilot. And so he joined the RAF, but then he stole funds from the mess hall. And he ended up going AWOL because he didn't want to face it. And he kind of slowly developed into

a con man because he was he could talk his way out of anything he got people like people kind of fell in love with him all the time blonde people with fucking chin clefts a blonde with a chin cleft and like i bet you he had a very deep soothing voice like he was one of those people that just like never didn't have a good thing to say watch out for those guys that watch it um he also so he was he was doing all kinds of uh like he he was um eventually caught from going AWOL by trying to apply for credit by fraud so he was using all these aliases yeah um he sounds like james bond kind of yeah like a bad guy james bond yeah okay like one of a james bond villain yes in the making but good looking were there any were there any james bond villains that were good looking male i don't

fucking know um that's a different podcast it It's called James Bonding. Demographic. Yeah. He called himself Major Rupert Brooke. He called himself Lord Dudley. Of course he did. Guy. So he was trying to apply for credit in under these false names. Got caught.

That's how he got arrested. He went to a borstal, which is, I don't, it's a jail but i don't know what why that's different than a normal jail it just feeds you shittier food probably thinks that's what it is it sounds like they send you to russia it sounds like there's like hay on the ground and in your cell oh that's a horse stall you're thinking wait why don't i click this live link and tell you that a boar stall is a type of youth detention center so he was so young he was going to a youth detention we knew that i knew that don't act like i didn't know that we were testing you guys you listeners but here's the problem he flourished in jail he he man he there's a psychopath test he he's a full-on psychopath did you flourish in jail he

flourished in jail the guy The governor of the jail, they're called the governor, but he's basically like the warden of the boys' jail, kept giving him leadership duties and eventually supported his application for the Air Force in 1939. He sounds like he could have been a really successful person if he had just not been a dick.

If he hadn't been a cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater. Happy Halloween, everybody. if he had just not been a dick if he hadn't been a cheater cheater pumpkin eater happy halloween everybody um we are on theme this is a themed episode we are not evergreen we are of the moment he tried to re-enlist in the air force when the governor um supported out his application the air force was like no thanks criminal well you tried this already pal and you get that one shot yeah he joined the Royal Service Corps and he was stationed in the Middle East and um over there he did all this his same business like he had to keep doing it the second he got there he pretended to be a man oh no i'm sorry when he in the middle east he got court-martialed he he basically stole got court-martialed was sent home in disgrace

and on the boat ride home he jumped off the boat like he the boat docked in south africa he got off and bailed um and escaped essentially and then started calling himself Captain Selway in South Africa. That's not fun so far. I mean, yeah, he had a good time with it. He had a limp and a monocle as Captain Selway. And our guy Neil Root was like, he was just an actor. He got super into these roles

and he became the people. Dude, he's an adventurer. Until he kills people. Until, yeah. So, let's see, I lost my spot. roles and he became the people dude he's an adventurer um until he kills people until yeah so let's see i lost my spot that's when you say it really helps i can't steal your bit no it's not that computer wise gets me down to my spot it helps it really helps um thanks steven he joins the south african air force under the name lieutenant colonel james armstrong okay um which is kind of amazing it's so long ago that you could join like a government agency and

they'd be like we haven't caught up to you yet we don't or you could be like here's my title and i'm like okay great there's no way to check this goodbye yeah but it's like what was it written on a fucking napkin like it doesn't make sense and he's just like no this is who i am and everybody trusts me but it's like he's smooth talker all you have to be is confident people fucking believe you if you're beautiful the world is your oyster wouldn't that be nice i mean um let's keep it positive so uh so he flew missions as lieutenant colonel james armstrong um but then finally they found out that he was this criminal guy and he couldn't fly a plane a plane maybe he's like he was like into i get you know at the time it was like world war ii and it was like into, I get, you know, at the time it was like World War II and it was like the Air Force pilots were the shit.

Oh, for sure. They were the hot hotties. So he just wanted a slice of that. Amen. He got deported back to England. He arrived in January of 1946. He tried to go to the London School of Navigation because his ideas all be a commercial pilot. And he actually went, studied there I'll be a commercial pilot.

And he actually went, studied there, worked really hard, tried, and then near the end they found out about all of his court-martials and all his bullshit from the Army and basically being a criminal, and they told him, you will never be a commercial pilot. I know. And they kicked him out. So his family thinks, like he's telling the story of like, oh, I was a pilot in the Army, and now I'm going to be a commercial pilot, and everybody don't worry about it. So now he can't tell them that he, none of that's going to work out because he can't

keep his hands out of the till. So he lies to them. And then I think that's part of, like, the pressure starts mounting. And what he ends up doing is drinking and going to dance halls all the time. Sounds like a blast. Right. And he and he's, of course, a huge womanizer because he's he's beautiful or good looking. Let's say he's he's no Paul Onions.

Can I just say really quickly? Vince told me a story the other day when we were on the plane on the way home from Australia. And he saw that like Riz Ahmed, there was like a TV show with Riz Ahmed on the plane. And he walked by and said, Riz Ahmed's on TV. And you heard him say, Riz Ahmed's in seat one. Yes. That's right. And lost your shit.

Why didn't you guys tell me about that the minute we got off the plane? I had no memory of that until you just said it right now because he was walking by and just said it in that vince way like fast and kind of like yeah and but the excitement he said it like the look on his face was like riz Ahmed's here yeah and then i was like in my pod all half asleep and weird. And I was just like, wait, what? I love it. It doesn't matter. It's not.

I mean, I'm sure there are some people that would go and squat by their seat. He would have sat on his lap the rest of the way home. I not only would not have sat on his lap, I would have had a mean look on my face in case he saw me and been looking at the ground the entire time. You know what kind of shitty friend I am, but like the best kind of friend is I would have been like, let's walk by him. And then I would push you into him. Yeah. You know, so it looks like you bumped into him. You're the perfect wingman. I am such the wingman. Because you're going to work against all of my serious problems, which is the best way to flirt is to act like you're angry and walk away. Which has not panned out well. Just go act like a human and speak to the person.

No. So moving on. So Riz Ahmed. Riz Ahmed is back in England. No. So Neville Heath is, he's under pressure. He's a failed, he's a failed pilot. He's under pressure he's a failed he's a failed pilot he's not he's acting and can you know hold himself to be this person but he actually doesn't have any of the cred um but he's so he's meeting a bunch of women he takes a room at the pembridge court hotel in notting hill gate which is the street the main street in Notting Hill. That one I did look up. Okay. Notting Hill, the film that makes me crazy because why does he like her? Why?

Why? Why anything? That's true too. Okay. So he actually checks into this hotel using his real name. He just added the fake title Lieutenant Colonel, but his real name is on the book. those even go together i don't know i certainly don't know can you be a lieutenant and a colonel i mean i would believe him because he did one of the things he got in trouble for when he was in the army was misusing uniforms and medals which is like that stolen valor thing

get your story straight i mean he's just like it's like go be go be an actor in the theater you fool that's what you want to do yeah all the ladies you can imagine all the single ladies all the single ladies okay so when he's um he's at he has taken his hotel room he's out at a bar one night and he meets a woman named yvonne simmons he takes her out to dinner he starts to romance her and he's trying to get her to come back to the hotel room with him. And she won't go. And so he proposes to her.

And so she's like, okay, I will. So she goes. Yvonne. She buys it. I mean, he sells it in a way that she can buy it. She goes and fucks him. And the next day she goes back home to Baines Bridge where she lives. I think either with her parents or her parents also live there too um and now she thinks oh I'm

I'm engaged and and like I'm that's my fiance this is an episode of Downton Abbey I mean it really isn't the sad a sad dark Downton Abbey would not be a bad idea. Yeah. What's it called? Downton Abbey. I was going to say something else and that's better. Downton Abbey. Thank you so much. It's just goth. Everyone's goth. Takes place in the Middle Ages.

Bless you. Bless you. Don't you dare edit that out, Stu. And don't fucking take a note. Leave it. Listen, we are real people oh my god we have thoughts and feelings and sneezes okay okay go she goes back to baines bridge four nights later uh neville meets a woman named marjorie gardner now she's an artist she's 32 years old she was

married to a terrible alcoholic who she's separated from um she's from a middle-class family but she has led a what they call a bohemian lifestyle and her yes exactly right she wears pants exactly she grew her hair long and put a scarf in it um fuck her she also as they quote say in murder maps they're like she enjoyed the freedoms the new freedoms offered to women by the war so basically pants sex pants and cigarettes and if you want build a bridge love can build a bridge so she meets neville at a bar um same deal he takes her out to dinner then they go to the panama club which is some private club he belongs to or so he says they leave the panama club at 12 20 and they go back to room four at the

pemberge court hotel the following day uh the assistant manager get enters the room because the um maid can't get in and so he comes up opens the door and marjorie gardener's body is naked on the bed uh covered to the neck with sheets her ankles are still bound her there's marks on her wrist to show that they were bound but that the um restraints had been cut she um had been gagged there were 17 lacerations um on her body caused by a whip oh my god she'd been punched in the face at least twice oh my god um nipples savagely bit no no no no i know that's a bad one she and also to me the worst one where she had been raped and then it in an instrument no had been inserted inside her vagina.

So I think they said it was like a bottle opener. It's horrible looking. Basically, a incredibly brutal and savage attack on this woman. Is there a crime scene photo of it? Not that I saw. Okay. Not that I saw. Okay. But there's a very upsetting reenactment because the woman looks a lot like the picture. They show the picture of Marjorie. And then this actress, they got to play her, looks almost exactly like her. So it's very real. That's so crazy that supposedly that was his first murder.

Supposedly. Because that's true. It's not. It can't be. Like we all know that that's not your first murder if it's not, it can't be like, we all know that that's not your first murder. If it's that. Yeah. There's a gap of time where he goes from, um,

I'm an embezzler. I steal. I basically, no rules apply to me. That early kind of psychopath shit of, I want to get whatever I want, no matter what. And I don't care,

but then it goes from there. And then there's all that time where who knows what he did in South Africa. He's in the Middle East. Yeah. You know. Yeah. He's he's he's breaking. He's clearly he got, you know, what, you know, discharged from the army for for reasons that they're saying that there are these crimes.

But who knows what the fuck. Right. They could be like, we don't want to we don't want to advertise what else. Or they just don't know. They just caught him for one thing. But he could be guilty of anything. that's brutal so the thing is uh and ultimately they find she was suffocated with a pillow that's how she actually died neville he there's nowhere to be found obviously since he signed in under his own name note, though, now he's on the run.

Which means he wasn't premeditated. No. You know what I mean? That's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah, why would you? Especially since he's so tricky and uses so many aliases everywhere in his life and goes so far as to pretend to have a limp and wear a monocle, that why would he then here fuck up?

Something pissed him off and he snapped he snapped he snapped um maybe who knows well what he does do is takes the train to bainbridge and goes to meet his brand new fiancee yvonne's parents yvonne so yvonne he's like guess what i'm coming to visit like everything i said was real I wasn't just super drunk. Yeah. He goes to the parents golf club and has dinner with the family. Then they leave and they go out to another club for drinks. And he realizes he has to give her his explanation of what happened in that room.

Because she was in the room with him and that he knows the story is going to come out that marjorie gardner was murdered okay so he tells yvonne that he met a man who asked if he could borrow his neville's hotel room key so he could go fuck a lady and neville was like sure no problem buddy take my key and i'll just go walk around the streets whistling with my hands in my pockets all night and then that basically that the murder was some other guy killing marjorie and he was just the unlucky fella that gave his key what are the chances i mean the odds are insane um the next day the newspapers are filled with his picture and pleased to turn himself in and so the family sees it um all these people see it he writes the police a letter

explaining to marjorie i mean explaining that he'd lent marjorie the room key he went out for the night and then when he came back he found her dead body so he changes the story slightly to the police which we all know is a red flag city you red flag city and also apparently he wrote these letters all the time the neil root guy talks about how uh neville heath would write letters all the time after he did stuff kind of explaining what his deal was and oftentimes it would lead people to go that's okay i understand now and let him off the hook that's how he got out of things and and one of the theories is he had been doing these things for so long and getting away with it that he kind of thought he was

untouchable and he didn't ever believe he just didn't he thought everyone would always believe him because they always did because people want to believe pretty people. They do. People believe pretty people. Yes. Over fucking not pretty people. Absolutely. You get away with shit and people fucking get charmed by you.

It's charm. It's that thing of when a certain type of person looks at you and presents a thing. Yeah. Like there are people who just know the power of their own face or their own voice or their own. They don't know. That's just what they're used to in life right they think everyone gets treated like that and everyone can do this thing right it's a it's quite a combination of like when you have a psychopath that's good looking like you know all doors are open you you fucked hello the devil so it's my new musical so okay um he in this letter to the police tells them he's he found the whip that she was injured with and he was going to bring it with him when he came to talk to them no and then just and that's it so they're like okay but they um he's now operating under false names again

so he's still he isn't going back to the police he's so he checks in on june 23rd he checks into the toller royal hotel in bournemouth under the um name the fake name group captain rupert brooke no yeah it always he always has to have two military names before the fake name um okay so and this is like about two the murders happen he's on the loose for two weeks essentially um and he's walking around bournemouth um and he meets a woman named dorian marshall she and her friend are also walking around Bournemouth. And he meets a woman named Doreen Marshall. She and her friend are also walking around. It's, I think, Bournemouth from what I remember, but this could be wrong. But I think it's a seaside town.

Let's go with it. From what I remember from Murder, Meth. Let's fucking go with it. Stephen's going to tell me whether or not. I think I'm right, though. But I think it's like a little, he got out of town, basically. Went to the vacation spot. I'm right?

Okay, thank God. Because I can't have British people angry at me. I can't. little he got out of town basically went to the vacation spot i'm right okay thank god because i can't have british people angry at me i can't because they're just stern they won't yell at you no they'll just be disappointed and friendly which i can't take i need irish yelling or nothing okay so he goes to bournemouth to get out of town he he's walking around but he is a voracious he's they call him eventually they end up calling him the lady killer because he's walking around but he is like voracious he's they call him eventually they end up calling him the lady killer because he's just this womanizer that then of course is literally a lady killer he meets this girl dorian marshall and he won't leave her alone he's like on her all day long um and at first she's into it of course because it's the good-looking army captain

or whatever the group captain and then she fucking senses he's a creep. Yes. Fucking gut feeling tingling. Yes. And also because he can't, I think people like that, they can only keep that certain level of charm going for so long. Yeah. So once he's, it's like if you're, especially if you're not going with the direction he's

trying to take you. Yeah. Then he started getting real pushy and real insistent and in the hotel room i mean in the hotel lobby um he was getting really pushy with doreen yeah and the night manager of the hotel actually saw it happen and saw her going into a panic about it and that night manager was the last person to see her alive. Oh no. So he saw some kind of weird exchange between the two of them.

Noticed it. Noticed how weird enough to notice. Yeah. How unhappy she was and made a note of it. So the next day, um, the, the man, the manager of the Tolerance receives a call from the Norfolk hotel,

um, which is where Doreen was staying, like on a different side of town. And they called because she was last seen at that hotel, getting into a cab to come to their hotel. And she never arrived and never came back. And I guess the friend was like, that's what I'm assuming.

The friend was like, you have, it's like, we have to figure out where my friend went. And the staff at the Tolland were becoming very suspicious of group captain Rupert Brooke. Because of all these things they were seeing him, you know, these vibes they were getting from him and the behavior. So, finally, the police, meanwhile, putting all these things together put together that neville heath and um rupert brookard the same person and so um uh he had he he said he was from um some some like air It's based in a place.

It's a city. In? London. No, no, no. It's like Leicester. Okay. But I think it's Leicester. When have you ever cared?

I know, but suddenly I'm holding my hair about it. I know you are really troubled. It's because. It's probably Leicester. Leicester. Leicester. Yeah, that's probably what it is. That's probably what it isester leicester leicester yeah that's probably what it is probably what it is yeah oh they're so mad i can i can hear the tea spilling across this ocean

right now we'll cancel our trip we'll cancel our shows there that we're not that's a secret reveal oh deep that was um what do they call those a uh deep cut no a um spoiler easter egg yes an easter egg god damn it okay the police it's the thing i said of coming back into the police realized neville heath and rupert um brooks are the same person and uh rupert brooks sorry and so they also find in his room a train ticket for Doreen Marshall, the whip with hair on it that was then traced to Marjorie Gardner. I know that's fucked. That's like a really specific, weird thing. Yes. And it's very like South African.

I'm in the Air Force. I'm wearing jodhpurs. I have a whip i have a right but you had to have it on you you know what i mean so like you didn't just grab something and hit the person with it you like had your whip yes you know and like this is what you were into right which also then goes like did he snap or was this a build? What did he? Yeah. Or the thing of like, he brought it out and she wasn't into it.

And so he attacked her. It's like, no, he, he got off on. Well, she's and Marjorie was tied up. So like, was it fun times tied up and a look, I have whip or was it like and then it all goes bad sure okay honey so um a waitress walking her dog sees a strange swarm of flies um near down near the beach so then later on when she sees the story of Marjorie Gardner's death in the paper, she grabs her dad and goes back down to that part of the beach to check out

what the swarm of flies are. And there, Doreen Marshall's body is found nude arms tied behind her back, stabbed to death. That chick was a vintage murderino. She was the, a ridge, a ridge murderino,

because she had to make that connection where she was like i'm sure there was a weird smell too if there was a swarm of flies but she kind of saw something like it's a bird or whatever the fuck that's right but she was like let's dad let's make sure and he's like and she's smart enough to not go okay so what he what neville heath had done when he was out of his hotel room um he went back by climbing up the outside of the hotel up of what they say call a builder's ladder on the side of the hotel and And he basically snuck into his own hotel room. Probably because he was covered in blood and had shit all over him and a knife and all that stuff

because he had murdered Doreen. But he, then the next morning, told the story in the lobby with other hotel residents as if it was, I pulled this prank on the doorman. So he tried to make it, he was basically trying to establish this motive of, I was doing this fun, funny, crazy thing with the doorman. That's what I was doing last night.

And that's what you're going to remember. So when the police questioned him, he claims that he blacked out. He has no memory of what happened during that night he says that he came to on the beach looking at his bloody hands that he washed his hands in the sea and then walked back to the hotel um but what it turned out happened was he took her down to the beach attacked her murdered her there and before he her, he took off all his clothes. Oh.

So that when he was, because he knew he would be covered in blood. So when he was done stabbing her to death, he went in, washed himself in the sea, and then came back out and put his clothes on. That's how you know he knew what he was doing. Exactly right. Yeah. Not a snap.

Nope. In this situation anyway. Pre-planned. Pre-planned. When you're like, I want to murder somebody, but I don't want my clothes to get dirty. Fuck you, dude. Yeah. Okay.

Absolutely. Fuck you, dude. On September. Oh, then he disposed of the knife. The ultimate proof that you're not insane. Sure. September 24th, 1946. The murder trial begins.

His lawyers tried to claim insanity um and they they did it by revealing his previous crimes and then saying this is a progressive mania that then built to murder um uh and then the neil root guy explains that you have to know what you're doing is wrong to cover it up and that's the proof that it's not and you can't do if you if they can prove you tried to cover it up then that proves you're not insane i love that rule yeah because it it applies to so few actual murders yes yeah and it's so clear it's like it makes so much sense. So he was found guilty and he eventually was hanged for the murder. Holy shit. But up until the end, and this is kind of an amazing, like final moment for that show

that I loved. Apparently the thing they used to do before they hung you was they gave you a shot of whiskey. Really? Like a glass, you know. It's like, they're going to give you dental surgery or they're going to hang you a shot of whiskey. Really? Like a glass, you know. It's like they're going to give you dental surgery or they're going to hang you. You're right.

So you kind of got like one quick thing before you went and he said to the hangman, considering the circumstances, you might want to make it a double. Oh my God. Like to the end was this insane phony lunatic. Because that's the coolest line i've ever heard i mean it isn't bad i'll say that is clearly a charmer yeah the lady killer neville heath

we don't do that we only do that live i forgot oh my god um i think because i really buttoned it and i felt like you felt like you had to do yeah i was like wow tough you say the title at the beginning and the end and then they're like whoa oh but i am going to tonight in my car by neil root's book frenzy because this story and then those other three like the way all that information was coming out where you're like, this is why people it's like when that, that explanation of people during world war two becoming desensitized to fear and horror and death.

And then when the war's over, they still want to know the bad shit because they've already known the bad shit. Distraction. Yeah. It's a distraction from your own woes. Yes. And they were saying like for the soldiers,

it's a celebration that it's not them. I think that's what it is for us today. You know, like we know these things can happen and all this horrible shit can happen. And hearing about it makes it legitimizes it and makes it true. And we're aware of it. And we're not trying to fucking shelter ourselves from shit because man, life a bitch life's a bitch and we're so lucky we're so lucky and there was there's another book that i'm reading that's about murder in like the early 1800s in england that's when it like

they would put it out on the broadsheets and it was really popular there would be like a picture here yeah and they glue it up to a wall or whatever sure and it's a i'll get the title of the book for next time but in that the author was saying um that it was it's like sitting inside a house when there's a a rain a thunderstorm outside where you enjoy the raindrops on the window pane that's exactly it because you're inside in the warmth with protection that's exactly it or like when you're in an earthquake and you know it's not going to be that bad and you're just like this is so fucking cool and fascinating yeah because you because there's boundaries yeah yeah wow yeah that's fucking cool um pretty good one happy thing should we end on that oh yeah

botox no i'm kidding can you pause no don't pause don't edit that out but that's not my thing i mean it really is just um oh i'll say one okay We did the LA Podfest last weekend. It was super fun. We did a great show with KCRW where we got to be guest DJs. That was so fun. We did our own live show. I did the stand-up show. It was like a hangout at the Biltmore.

And we got to meet all these listeners that came specifically to the Podfest. And people drove in from far away people from arizona um remember the guy last year that we met at la pod fest his name was joe and he gave us those la coroner's office mugs yes yes i still have mine well he came back again and gave us a travel mug and an apron also from the coroner's office and i went sorry remind me do you work at the coroner's office and i went sorry remind me do you work at the coroner's office he goes no i just love that they have a gift shop and there was just like we met so many cool people and actually got to like yeah hang for

a second and talk to people it was really nice it felt very much like a um like we're all just chilling yes situation right very fun and those and i will say for that stand-up show which i don't love doing anymore just because i don't work on it and whatever but that was fun because it's an audience of people who really love and care about comedy for the most part for that pod fest anyway so it was like they were with you the entire time like it was it was so fun to do a set like that because everyone had the best sense of humor it's almost like they weren't waiting for you to make them laugh they were like let's all enjoy this yeah it's like how when we do ours where you already

have the benefit of the doubt yeah so everyone's ready to just go where you want to go right no i love that that's great it was yeah so thank you la podfest yeah dave anthony graham elwood chris mancini um it was super fun yeah it definitely was give me one second what do i like about this world it just can't also be like selfish like what i don't know because yours was very sweet and giving like being alone no i think that's really good to you of course you can leave this list part in um so vince was gone last week missed him love him it's so quiet and weird here without him but god there's something about being alone and just like watching whatever you want to watch and

God, there's something about being alone and just like watching whatever you want to watch and lots of farting and drinking, you know, drink, having a drink and talking to your cats and like singing stupid songs. And I just really enjoy that a lot. Yeah. In a way that's like doesn't mean I don't love Vince. Oh, of course not. You know. No, no, no. I think it's it's almost like a resetting. Yeah.

When you can just get a little, I mean, I've gone, you have to be careful though, because then after a while, like, I think I have thin skin about it where I need now I'm becoming that kind of person where like, I need things to be a certain way because I'm so used to always only having things exactly how I want them, which isn't good. Yeah. But then when you meet someone you really like, you're like, Oh, I like the way he does that stupid thing. Yeah.

That's true. It's like, or had some, I had some greeting or some like saying I saw a long time ago that said like, when you don't like someone, the way they eat pisses you off when you like someone, they could spill food on you and you'd be so thrilled about it like something like that where it's just depends on the person yeah that's very true but there's there is something very zen about just like being in silence or just kind of doing what you want and not always for so

long i really always had to have like three people around me at all times and um just kind of knowing yourself too and knowing what you would be like alone and your schedule and like how you would fall asleep at night which is apparently on a fucking naked bed with my fucking vintage comforter just and no sheets and no sheets covering me and you know it's kind of cool to check back in with yourself like that yeah i think that's really good yeah and then when vince came, I was like, great, I gotta be a human again. I actually have to shower. Yeah, he's very strict about that stuff.

Yeah, being alone. Consider it. Consider it for a hot second. All right, well, thanks for listening. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Elvis, use your microphone. Elvis. Alright well thanks for listening Stay sexy And don't get murdered Bye Bye

Elvis Use your microphone Elvis Want a cookie? Want a cookie? Whoa That was a big yes You just blew doors on that one

Bye Bye Yeah we heard you