My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 95 - Gesus

Episode Date: November 16, 2017

In this week’s episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Amish Serial Killer and three mysterious disappearances. Plus a special surprise from Dallas. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. learn how to become a better investor. From placing your first trade to setting up customized stock alerts, we're always by your side. Just a few of the reasons why we are Canada's number one rated online broker by MoneySense. Get started today at Questrade.com. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation.

Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. Okay, let's get zen. Yeah, let's get real zen. Put your hands in prayer position. And rub them together a little bit. Just a little bit of friction. This is ASMR now. That's right. And get ready for...

And... Throw the dice. This is my favorite murder. Featuring Georgia Hardstark. And featuring Karen Kilgara. With a sidebar element of Stephen Ray Morris Right over there on the ground There he is

Where you expect him to be And he always is I'm cozy He's cozy He's there I would never be cozy sitting in the position that Stephen is in I've offered him a chair Can we go ahead and

It's how he likes it Yeah He's into yoga He must be Yeah Well he's fucking young And you can sit however you want when you're young I'm 37 I don't even know what I'm talking about It's how he likes it. Yeah. He's into yoga. He must be. Yeah. Well, he's fucking young. And you can sit however you want when you're young. I'm 37.

I don't even know what I'm talking about. It's like not that I'm... I'm so old. He's very young. He's a young man. All the cartilage in his knees is still there. Nothing is broken. Hi.

Hey. We're back from our amazing leg of the tour down in Texas. Dude, I knew that would be special. I knew that trip would be a special trip. It was so good. I mean, they all really are in their own way, and that sounds cheesy, but it really is true. Yeah. And these ones were great.

They were just so great. Yeah. In every way. I mean, why name them? Right. But they just were. Many many ways you know all the ways there's so many ways you can just imagine somebody did make me and i'm sorry i don't know your name offhand but it was the second night in dallas and a woman came up and just handed me a very

beautiful silver box and inside she made a box full of moth cookies so it was the box of moths that i fear but in cookie form which i don't fear right and it um i think it may have erased my phobia of getting a box of moths in the mail it happened and you were happy about it there no one got hurt they were delicious cookies are you scared of dead getting dead moths in the mail or live live like opening a box and having moths fly into my face open your face right like silence of the lamb style yes and it's all is it the moths also or is it or just or is it also the connotation of what what would mean for one to take the time to send you a box of moths yeah how creepy specifically that would be although i'm not exactly sure whenever we were talking about that it just

came out of my mouth right and let's have mouth right and this is called like a journey into the subconscious that we never want to talk about again well remember that so we were both we were in dallas and we met in the lobby of the hotel and when we were like leaving for the show and we were both like did someone knock on your door and hand you a present and we were i had been freaked out because I got a knock on the door. I was like, who the fuck is it? It was like the cons of like a whatever. A guy that worked there. A guy that worked there, which like, you don't want a dude fucking knocking at your door

anyways when you're alone. Yeah. Out of the shower. And he was like, he, you know, said someone had given a present. So I opened the door, which I don't know what I was thinking, handed me a gift bag and was like, and then I was like, okay, someone knows where I'm staying now. And this is creepy and scary. And I don't know who this is.

Yes. And then it happened to you, too. It happened to me. And this is the part of the brag that I want to tell the most, which is that our rooms were so big and beautiful at that hotel that someone would knock on the door. This happened to me multiple times. And it would take me so long to get to the door that they would either knock again or try to open the door no well but it would be like say it would turn down or the maid or

something like that because i always forget to put that leave me alone thing on the door i always forget i always want to hear really yeah and i fucking this is how compatible we are the moment we we don't close the door to the hotel room before putting the leave me alone i gotta adapt to that oh my god because it's there's nothing worse than when a person comes into your room they don't want to be there when you're there and you it's like you're being a creep by having not put the sign on totally so anyway the guy knocked i was walking over knocked again and i said who is it no one answered knocked again i said who is it? No one answered. Knocked again. I said, who is it? But it was close enough to, I thought maybe it was you joking around. And I did my pants on. So then I was like, oh, I'm just going to open the door.

It's our funny joke of opening the door with no clothes on. But then. This is actually a thing that's happened a couple of times. A couple of times. I love surprising with no clothes on. It's my favorite joke. It's a pretty good one. But I, so i stood behind the

door opened it it was a dude and he was like here's a present for you he didn't say here's the present anything but here's a present for you and i i kept the door so closed that i basically only could fit my arm out grabbed the bag pulled it in and slammed the door didn't say thank you i didn't say anything um and it was really scary well then of course we meet the woman who dropped those things off yeah she's like oh did you guys get my my bag that i sent you the present and immediate and i was terrified and we were like how do we look into this i'm gonna yell at the front desk and what's going on did you call around texas looking for the fucking right our minds of course went in fucking insane in the way where

if other people could hear us they'd be be like, calm down, assholes. Like, this is not that big of a deal. I don't know. Well, but when the explanation finally came, it was like really embarrassing. First, we saw her and she was just like the sweetest blonde Texan, like angel face. So I'm like, all right, this is the girl who's going to kill us. It's like, OK, that's pretty good. She's fine.

She's sweet. She'll do it nicely. But then she was like, did right, if this is the girl who's going to kill us, it's like, okay. That's a pretty good way to go. She's fine. She's sweet. She'll do it nicely. But then she was like, did y'all get my present? I saw Vince in the parking lot of my hotel. And so I sent it up. Like, she just knew that we were staying there. In the most natural, non-invasive way possible. Right.

She knew. And this so sent us up some, and also it's the thing that everyone we were going crazy for and everyone in texas we learned that there's a there's a gas station called bucky's that's that's beloved and bucky's makes a product steven i don't know if you know this already they make a product called beaver nuggets that are essentially um crack cocaine dipped in fucking like maple sugar or some shit yeah there's a pork grind element but also kind of like puffed see cut puffed corn cereal yeah but then maple like coating yeah and something about it like they don't look great it's almost got a cotton candy

element yes because it's just like sugar and air but we were eating them like lunatics so many of those and that's what she sent up it was like the loveliest gift of like welcome to texas yeah we're like fucking you're gonna kill us we're like rappelling down the side of the building to avoid being in the front it was so crazy but it's just that thing of like you know can we do one last on the road story really quickly because that's my favorite of this the chicks whose sister the chick and her sister yes okay so after the after live shows we do like a meet and greet thing where we meet so many cool people like listeners and take photos with them and a lot of them give us presents like boxes of chocolate of candy moths or whatever yeah so one girl when came in medicine she was so nice and she was like

you guys got me through some really hard times thank you so much whatever we're like great okay and then we go to take a photo with her and as the photo is about to be taken yeah there's like that moment of silence where we all turn to the camera and are like fake smile do a weird pose and right in that moment she goes i'm gonna do what the lady did and then georgia's gonna do what she did okay okay so the lady goes my sister's dying and georgia laughed just like that louder like georgia burst out laughing i was cracking up because when you're in a horrified position sometimes you just laugh well and it was so quiet it was was like, my sisters dying. The tension of like, what the fuck are we going to do now? Yeah, what? My sister's dying.

My sister's dying. So then Georgia laughs. Then the picture's taken is over. Georgia! I didn't say it like that. You were kind of like, don't do that. Well, I was just like,

that... You admonished me in a way you've never admonished me before. Well, you were laughing because she said her sister was dying. I didn't say you were in the wrong at all. I 100% agree with you. So I turn to the woman.

After the photo, we were like, oh my God. Both of us were like, are you okay? I'm like, what are you talking about? We're like, eye contact. Turn, you know, circle up, huddle up. This is going to be a moment. This is a thing, and we're here for you. We get it.

And then she goes, she is so jealous that she's not here right she just dying use the wrong phrasing right in the moment of silence so it's it felt like she was basically saying i'd like to tell you this very sad thing my sister is dying my sister is dying no my sister's dying. Dying of jealousy. Is how she meant to say it. Yeah. So now we know how I react in moments of fucking horror. And now we know, I don't know. It was hilarious. That's about it. It was super, and also she thought it was kind of funny. Once we were like, we thought your sister was dying.

And then she was like, oh, no, no, she's fine. We were like mad at her. Yeah. Because that was a lot. Okay, tell me okay i do have a corrections corner okay and this really is only for the people that were at our second show in dallas when i did the story of terry hoffman who was this crazy cult leader it was one of my favorite murder stories i've ever done but at the end, I said she died in 1997, which was very odd. I pulled it out

because I didn't have it on the page. Right. And I'd forgotten to write. I had some notes I wanted to make and I just didn't do it. Right, right, right. So I just wanted to tell everybody she actually died in 2015 at age 77.

That is a big difference in time. She just kept going. She was just like not giving up on this cult dream. No, she wasn't at all. And she, she, that book that she made was the color of money, the power of color, money force or the, or the color of money power force is some bullshit book about like, and we talked about it that night whatever

color you wear is going to bring you right money in different degrees no how about a fucking vintage orange clown blanket is that gonna bring me a lot because that's what i'm wearing right now look there's a 50 bill stuffed underneath your butt oh no that's just where i keep my money oh oh just stuffed right under your one cheek i have a second corrections corner okay this is for everybody last week i said that the director of wind river was a woman and it certainly is not a woman i don't remember any of this um i i'm not sure exactly where i got it but it was the movie that i was talking about i watched it on the plane and it was really good it was about the murder on right in like uh native american land and it was uh so i said if it's taylor i'm gonna look it up really quick the director's name uh is taylor sheridan and um that's a man taylor is it uh interchangeable

name it is but i feel like I should have at least glanced at a Wikipedia. But I think I thought I remembered a female woman of love, like a Native American female woman getting accolades. And so I kind of really combined it all in my mind. Anyway, props to Taylor Sheridan because it's such a good movie. Okay, watch it can i tell you something yes from the internet yes okay i found an article recently it says uh it's from a place it's a dc 101 is the is like a is the name of the website and it says weird news the voice behind behind many bestselling books on tape is actually a serial killer.

No. So it turns out that in the 80s, a blind couple showing their appreciation to the prisoners of the California Medical Facility State Prison who have voiced. They started a program to have the inmates their voice audiobooks okay it was the program was then run by our friend ed kemper no so it's called volunteers of vacaville or the blind project um they were recorded thousands of books bestsellers textbooks mysteries, mysteries, science fiction, Westerns, children's books, and cookbooks onto tape cassettes. From 1977 to 87, Kemper had spent over 5,000 hours in the recording booth and had more than 4 million feet of tape and several hundred books to his credit, including, and this is

the best one, Flowers in the Fucking Addict. Addict. Addict. Addict. God damn it. Flowers in the Addictions. Flowers in the fucking addict addict addict flowers in the addictions flowers in the addict why do i do that okay purely based on mind hunter the the wonderful series on netflix that i personally love and the way that actor played ed kem. Oh, can you? Imagine Flowers in the Attic as that guy in that kind of nerdy voice like that. She touched his groin. Is that in the book?

I don't know. They were sister and brother touching groins. My brother were like that. We have to track that down somewhere. I mean, I would never listen to that in a million years. I would. What if I started falling asleep to that at night because you know it's relaxing no it is not calming and relaxing no it's one of my

new fall asleep at night books and then I kill a bunch of people and they're not related at all I find and I've already bragged that I'm sound sensitive I find people's voices to be a real make or break and knowing that a person who had that voice oh right was also a psychotic killer who beheaded his own mother would be a hard break for you that would be a tough one to separate and not hear all the crickly crags of insanity and murder in there fair enough so i can listen to a book about murder while falling asleep, but I can't listen to, I shouldn't listen to a book by a murderer, read by a murderer.

I don't think so. I don't think you need that in your subconscious. Because you do the thing where, you know, when like you look at old photos of a murderer and you're like, do I see it? Can I see it? Yeah.

I can see it in his eyes. Right. Well, I hear it in his, in his voice. You absolutely will. Of course I will. Bad dreams.

Yes. If nothing else, you're to be hearing the voice of a sociopath who has no human, like normal human connection. To the book. He's just not going to do the book justice. We read so much V.C. Andrews when I was like 12. Oh my God. Me too.

It should have been taken away from us. It should have been banned. Listen, I'm not for banning V.C. Andrews when I was like 12 Oh my god, me too It should have been taken away from us It should have been banned Listen, I'm not for banning books No, not really, but But V.C. Andrews had some shit going on Did you ever read My Sweet Audrina? Yes Okay, I obsessed on that concept

It was so good What if my parents have brainwashed me And I don't remember my actual childhood Like that whole concept was unbelievable can i tell you how badly i wanted to have been um adopted and uh had i wanted to have been kidnapped by my parents and they weren't really my parents yep what the fuck is wrong why would they because it's just like exciting like you're just sitting there in front of your tv dinner you know what i mean like having your normal life and you're like what if something happened

what if something cool happened yeah like i didn't belong here yeah let's start let's read that again let's book club it right now yes do you want to yes oh my god let's all read which one do you want to do do you want to do my sweet i don't remember most of my sweet adrena but it gives me chills so i must know something is going on in that book i'm pretty sure that's the one where at one point the adoptive mother somebody scrubs somebody else with bleach in a bathtub fun do you remember that no like you must get clean and hot clean no let's do it if it's not that one it's a different let's do that one or flowers in the attic let's start with which we start with i kind of want to do my sweet adrena just because it's a little bit like i just re-watched the they did the flowers in the attic made for tv movie on lifetime oh my did you watch it steven did malls

do an episode no but she should no she absolutely wait will you tell her i'll do it with her if she does it yes so yeah oh do you want to do it too? Sure. Molls has a podcast called Mother May Sleep With Podcast. Mother May Sleep With Podcast that we've both done where you watch a fucking made for TV lifetime movie. Yeah. And did she stop doing it? She's seasonal. So because, you know, you go, you go beat by beat of the movie.

So she does it in 15 episode chunks, takes a few months off. Oh, well, then we all have time to absorb it. Watch it 15 times. Like write, you all have time to absorb it. Watch it 15 times. Like write, you know, full essays on it. Okay. All right.

Malls, Molly, Mackleary, we're coming at you. Coming for you. But everybody else that wants to do this, let's all read my sweet Audrina. Like,

do you want to go pick up copies tomorrow? Sure. Today it will be, it has to be a used like paperback copy. It has to be a used like paperback copy it has to be a haunted copy that's haunted with the tears of a fucking girl from the 80s who's like i hope i get kidnapped yes by the hot cut that out i don't know but fantasies if you can go to a thrift store that has the copy of this or your mother or your grandmother's books bookshelf um it makes me think of the cabin we used to stay in in blue lake that had all kinds of it's

stephen king vc andrews they had all that shit at this cabin you could just go pick some horrible book you're gonna read while you were there for the week oh it sounds amazing so we're going to we're all starting my Sweet Audrina this Friday. Yeah, because, so next week is Thanksgiving. So we're putting a live episode up. And so let's meet back here in a week, in two weeks. In two weeks at the beginning of December. Yeah.

Whatever our next apartment episode is. We'll meet you here. And we will have read and we will be ready to discuss My Sweet Audrina. You guys. This is epic epic send us notes your thoughts oh all right okay why am i so excited oh because it's the best thing we've ever done um other things oh really quickly we have a couple new tour dates because you guys got really angry about certain things and messaged our tour agent joe yes um february 15th we added a second show to salt lake

city uh at kingsbury hall those go on sale friday november 17th which i think is tomorrow yeah so salt lake city second show you got your second show salt lake city god bless you for demanding it you scared our fucking tour agent joe and that's how you have to do it in this business how you do it come at them uh dublin is that a second show uh yeah but they already put it up for sale so uh it's may 7th it's vicar street and it's already on sale they didn't do any kind of hold they were like fine we're doing it so dublin's may 7th second show yep and then may 17th, we added a second show. This is a first, this is a new show. Oh, this is new? Sorry, sorry. May 17th, Glasgow,

Scotland. Hey! We are doing a show for you, and I just would like to say, I lived there. Right! In 2002. Yeah. I lived within you, Glasgow, for I think three months, so come support your home

girl. Come say hi again. Hey remember me? Hey I. I never understood what a lot of people were saying here but I really had the best time. So those also go on sale tomorrow. The show is going to be at the is it the O2 Academy is that how you pronounce it? Yeah the O2 Academy

O2 Academy. Basically just go to myfavoritemurder.com slash live for all the details and all the other shows we're doing that we're really excited about. 2018 is going to be rad. We're getting new merch. It's going to be a fucking new experience. It's going to be... We're having the best time on the road.

You guys are so fun to come and meet and do shows with it's we really are it's quite it's a peak experience oh and we're um we're it's a peak experience we're reposting you um our holiday uh our holiday design our holiday merch design so go to my favorite murder shirts.com and check out the um ugly holiday sweater kind of like spoof that we did on that yeah it's from it's one of george's earliest uh concepts was it yours or mine no no i don't know did kirsten just do it from the printful i can't remember i don't know i mean i know she kirsten kirsten designed it yeah but i can't remember which one of us thought of it i won't take credit because i don't remember i have no i won't either it's basically a really cute looking christmas design

that says here's the thing fuck everyone in it and like stay sexy don't get murdered but it looks like a christmas sweater it's yeah it's great but it's but it's also like a sweatshirt so you don't have to wear it you can still have an ugly christmas sweater without the heat or discomfort of an ugly christmas right you get a t-shirt there's gonna be a mug listen come on we're doing it all for you. Look. We're here for you. Look and listen.

Please. At myfavoritemurdershirts.com. Dot com. Goodbye. Dot org. Dot org. You know. Dot.

What's a, is there like a religious one? Dot something. Dot G-E-S-U-S. G-E-S-U-S. You just spelled Jesus wrong. Miss Catholic. That's because I was trying to include everybody. Some people call him God.

Some people call him Yahweh. Hold on. G-E-S-U-S. Wow. That's, I think my addict has been usurped as the i do not mean to complain but complain recently i've been in states of mind of being so tired and drained yeah or just like we just talk too much so much yeah there's so much talking that i hear things come out of my mouth or i'm doing that weird thing if like you hold a door open for someone when they walk through and then you're like tomorrow you're welcome tomorrow or you say just some totally weird thing and you think you're saying the normal thing yeah i get it

horrifying it's fun no it's not it's a good time um who's first this week you know what we started let's let's talk about this really quickly okay Okay. We decided that, and I think we should talk more about this, of who should be first this week. Meaning, if your fucking murder is horrifying and awful, and I have a fucking delightful black widower from the fucking 1800s who just kills all her husbands. Yep. It's like, well, I should go second to bring it back up. That's right.

Like, last week I went second and did the Bernies. And that is just a terrible story. And you should have closed it. Right. And same with, remember the last night I did the story of the boy that killed his father. Right. And same exact thing where we're both like, anyway. And I did a fucking guy who dressed up as claus in the early 1900s and robbed a bank

and it was hilarity ensued so much hilarity ensued and this is dallas third night in dallas was it third night i don't know i have no idea so i should have closed so look we can we can look back in remembrance all we want but we're maybe maybe when one of us knows we're doing a murder our story is fucking horrific and we can tell the other person like hey this isn't a closer are you can you do the closer yes that sounds fine okay so mine right now it can be a closer if you need it to be okay how's yours uh uh not okay oh my god perfect so we are first right now we are now officially dismantling the who went first last time unless we need it unless it doesn't matter but then how will we go back to it when we whenever we decide okay we'll make it up on the spot okay oh yeah that's right it's we

can do it right there's no format this There's no format. This is all pretend. All right. Okay, great. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue

and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This, I, it's funny because in thinking of that, I worked on a couple different murders and I did this in Texas a couple times where I'd start something and I would be like, this is too depressing. Yes.

So like there was the killing fields. I was working on the killing fields because it's right outside Houston and it is a place where either one or several serial killers go to dump young women's bodies it's been going on for years no one's ever i think they caught one guy that's connected to 11 murders but they haven't caught all of them it's the there's a show called the 11 right now that you can watch i think it's an annie show on demand oh is that true about them yeah it's good on annie well it's on demand i don't know who did it oh okay um that's great yeah because it's very it's very involved and convoluted and i got i would say a quarter of the way through it and then i was like can't this is for a live show especially it's just so

bleak well we get so many people at live shows being like you shouldn't why didn't you do this murder and it's like because it's so fucking depressing not because we don't want to we didn't know about it right it's just like hearing the audience's silence when you're talking about a fucking 11 people getting murdered who didn't and it's not solved yeah it's a huge bummer it's rough and also it's um well whatever there's just all kinds of elements going on this is great so it just felt like i've started and stopped many um because there's so many dark ones but then i stumbled upon an episode of the television show deadly devotion which i think is on id i've never seen that one um i got it on uh apple like itunes yeah but um so it's basically like murders that happen within certain churches or religious groups obviously um yeah so this one uh uh is pretty amazing it's the amish

serial killer amish serial killer yeah tell me about it well not in the classic sense but yes okay um so there's a i knew nothing about any of this i didn't know there were subsets of Amish within the Amish. And there are some who are more liberal and some who are more conservative. That sounds political, but more classic, old school. And the Swartzenruber Amish, I'm sorry, Sw and truber amish are the considered old order amish they speak pennsylvania dutch i mean pennsylvania germans i'm not even reading off the page that i'm holding in front of my face i'm like trying to remember off the top of my head as i'm looking at it they speak pennsylvania german um they speak english with outsiders they don't follow they don't fellowship or intermarry

with more liberal amish orders so they won't go outside of their own amish group if like the like they consider the amish who put the red um orange reflective signs on the back of their carriages that say like so don't kill me yeah that's like, slow thing. So don't kill me. Yeah. That's too liberal for them. These people don't have running water or indoor plumbing. They never ride in cars unless it's an absolute emergency. Their belief is that they're not supposed to take interest in their appearance because it promotes vanity. So they dress in dark colors the women wear longer dresses um it's it's considered vain to

wear a button on your dress as a woman like to have buttons so basically they're a huge fucking bummer and you know what's great about when we do amish stories is that they can't listen and tell us what we got wrong they'll never fucking know a word we're saying about those phony bitches phony fucking button they're so phony it's calling the amish phony phony phonies fucking phonies okay no they're actually the realist okay um so they also don't allow the teenagers you know normal yeah amish teenagers go to get to do their rums bring out where they go out into the world for a year and party and go crazy and then they get to come back and then they're like yeah this is better and it is better they have homemade

butter and those barns yeah um those those wood burning stoves they sell on tv um so the schwartz and truber amish teenagers do not get to leave um but they do allow them to quote court in order to find a marriage partner which includes hugging in a bed while being fully clothed and rocking in a chair together so i'm sorry yeah what the fuck yeah you see him across the room And you're like Oh my god What is this electricity That I'm feeling

Yeah cause I don't know What electricity is Because I'm So I don't know what this means Come on He's trying to High five me

Across the room I just Held up my hand To high five Georgia And she fucking Picked up her foot And pointed it at me Like I was gonna High five her foot and pointed it at me like i was gonna

high five her foot that was genius that was genius okay this is a good start this is a good start so that was so something my sister would do okay so yeah so um so it's hardcore and there's um a young woman named ida who is raised you know she's in the community her family is well liked she's you know a pretty young girl that everybody likes and um they they show this thing in the episode of this show where the one of the ways that the the boys and girls teenage boys and girls mix together is they go sing in groups in a barn so like sounds like a fucking blast right they go into the barn the guys are kind of over on one side singing and then the girls are on their side singing so ida goes to one of these mixers and so you know that's a generous way to describe it and there she meets um a fellow

schwarzen truber amishman named eli stutzman he's good looking he's witty he's sophisticated he's charismatic he was a rebel the people in this episode he wore a button he had a button like as a pin right um no he didn't just use it as a button it wasn't he just had an extra fucking button yeah superfluous button oh my god are you the fawns so the the people in this episode there was a this really awesome woman who used to be amish and she had the greatest accent and she was like, so like, you know, wearing her white turtleneck.

Yeah. Very, but the craziest accent, you couldn't figure out what that accent was. And she was saying that he always stood out, that he was this, you know, he was really good looking and he just kind of was like this thing.

Everyone paid attention to it. Cause he was just different than the other Amish teenage boys. He was the Fabio of the Amish world. Totally. Okay. The actor that they got to play him in the reenactments looked like the main guy from Walking Dead. Oh, cheekbones. Cheekbones and kind of like rangy, you know, like something's going on with that guy.

He might shoot you and eat you. his father was a bishop okay and uh uh he was like a rebel so he was his father and he fought constantly really viciously because he would talk in church he was always just doing something he did whatever he wanted and the father and made the father crazy and embarrassed. Um, and he couldn't control him. Um, and he was always testing the limits they said.

So, um, of course Ida immediately is like, I'm in love with this guy. He's incredible. He won't stop talking during church. Love him. He's a fucking fighter.

Don't shut his fucking mouth at church. He's whispering during during the trip than the bible reading okay so she ends up some people or her parents are worried that she's mixing in with the you know a bad amish um but other people say that she had this calming effect on him and he was much less rebellious and they were clearly really into each other and in love um and the way they describe it the amish describe it is when you have these things they call it being worldly so like if you're really um into your appearance in the vanity thing that's a worldly issue it means like you're from from out the outside world yeah so um uh his worldly ways

created problems in the community and and with his father specifically and so he gets in such a bad fight with his father he leaves the community and of course ida's devastated he never says a word to her he just leaves she's brokenhearted but she knows they're in love she believes they're in love and she believes he's gonna come back um so he goes and stays at a different farm another amish family he goes and stays there like rents a room but he ends up getting kicked out because the mother in the family finds gay porn in his room wait what yes fucking 180 so she's in the reenactment she's she's making this bed with the big beautiful amish quilt on it and then it's like what's this over here and basically this was a thing that he had been dealing with as part of his rebellion and part of his thing what do you how do you think do you think the amish woman was just like what

is this and she's like i'm gonna take five minutes and then i'm gonna go tell everyone she's like i better look through this to make sure oh my god where do you okay yeah so you can imagine how freaked out they were where they were like they just immediately kick him out of the house where did he even find gay porn well it sounds like he was kind of he from the looks of it and the sound of it he was a bit of a sociopath so he got what he wanted all the time. So he went to a Buc-ee's and he was like, he went down to the Buc-ee's. He put on his worldly suspenders

so that nobody would, you know, pick up on him. Okay. So, okay. So he ends up moving back into the community and he tells Ida that he wants to marry her and start a life and he's going to reform and he's going to be good which essentially was he had nowhere else to go and so he comes back he apologizes he repents um they get married on christmas 1975 um uh

so after a month she's pregnant and and they, they start their family. You know, their son, Danny is born obviously nine months later. Um, turns out the Amish carry their children for nine months, just like the worldly folk. Um, so, uh, they move, they, their son, Danny's born and then they move to a farm and they start, um, a dairy business. So they have a bunch of cows. They milk the cows. uh they move they their son danny's born and then they move to a farm and they start um a dairy business so they have a bunch of cows they milk the cows they sell the milk and that's how they make their money and they all work on this farm it's really hard work but they're actually doing okay and um ida gets pregnant for a second time and then one night there an electrical storm

And then one night there, an electrical storm hits and they wake up in the middle of the night and electric, uh, lightning bolt has hit the barn and it's caught it on fire. So they run outside and Ida runs straight into the barn. She's like, I'm going to go save those pails of milk. What? Yes, girl. And he runs to go to the pump to get to start filling buckets with water and when he comes back with the buckets of water ida is laying in the doorway of the barn uh unconscious and so they call he you know gets neighbors they end up calling 9-1-1 um and he when the police and the fire department everybody get there he explains that ida when

she was a child she had a bout of rheumatic fever and so she had a weak heart and and she ended up being dead and so they were like she must have been so scared of this fire and having run in and everything that she just had a heart attack and died. So they list her death as cardiac arrest. Wow. So he, of course, is completely grief-stricken, and the community rallies around him. They all start working at the farm to make sure the dairy farm keeps going. He's just in the house. Some people come to take care of danny because he's just like completely beside himself um um and ida's mother actually moves in to take care of danny

and slowly as the months go by she notices um eli is less and less grief stricken and more and more acting like the rebel that he was before he left the first time and um within months of her death he has the whole farm electrified what yeah so there's a really hilarious uh scene where they just walk in and he's got this big really devious smile on his face he like reaches up and pulls at the string and like the light goes on in the kitchen like yes see this is mine so he puts in lights everywhere he buys a car he cuts his hair and he starts leaving the house at night so ida's mother's like what the is going on um so then it turns out he put an ad in the personal section of a gay newspaper. Wait, what?

Yeah. So he was going to live that secret dream that he wanted to do before. And here, this is how the ad read. Oh dear. Amish man, muscular, uh, thirties, five, seven, one 40 blue eyes, brown hair, hair straight appearing i think is what that's str app right very strapping appearance what strapping str what is it i was thinking they meant like straight like he seems straight okay got it got it um but it could be strapping it's probably not the brawny man very discreetate, health conscious sense of humor.

Would like to meet others into farming, ranching or carpentry. For friendship or possible relationship. So he's going for it. I mean, find love, dude. I love farming and ranching are very similar. I'm not sure why he used it. He used up those letters to write both. But maybe there's a subtle difference. I'm not sure. Or it could. He used up those letters to write both, but maybe there's a subtle difference.

I'm not sure. Or it could be code. I don't know. So he starts having parties in the barn and like men are coming. Wife died. Yes. Men are, you know,

this is months after, but men are coming to the ranch. Gay men. And it says he, it's a And it says, it says here, he starts having parties in the barn for gay English and Amish men. So I think it's just like whoever wants to come. But basically the entire community starts gossiping

because they're just like, did you hear? And he's not being discreet. He's got lights on. Like for starters. Um, so finally he, there's so much gossip and he's so, you know, he goes and tells the family friends, like he's so hurt by all this gossip, making it seem like it's all malicious and untrue that he, in 1982, he sells the farm. He takes Danny and he leaves. And, um um he finds he settles in austin texas and um it was really hard for danny to make that adjustment because he went from being you know old school

amish into just the real world of austin texas so um he he became really withdrawn he had a really hard time meanwhile his dad was basically opens a construction business and just starts freely dating gay men like dating openly yeah in a very modern way yeah um which you know it's the early 80s in Texas like it must have been dangerous to say the least totally um in the fall of 1984 eli is driving down the road and he sees a hitchhiker he picks him up and his name's glenn pritchard and glenn pritchard is a divorced father of two who used to be mormon and had a really bad drinking problem he left the mormon church he left his family either you know maybe his wife divorced him because of his drinking

problem he tried to join the Coast Guard to solve the problem. He got kicked out. So now he's just kind of lost. So Eli offers him a job at the construction business and room and board in the house. So he actually, Danny, Eli's son, gets along with Glenn really well. And Glenn has two kids, and he really misses his kids. And so he, you know, takes Danny on as like his own and looks out for him. And he really doesn't like the way Eli's bringing men home constantly and is in no way tries to hide it.

And Glenn's really uncomfortable like that he's doing it in front of Danny and thinks, you know, and tries to talk to him about it. But he doesn't he, you you know eli has none of that and he's like well i also have another problem which is you haven't paid me in six months um because he's been working you know for the construction company and yeah and eli's not paying and eli's like i have a cash flow problem i'm going to get you the money he's like well you need to get me the money well uh it turns out they find glenn pritchard dead in a ditch he's been shot and when the police come to talk to eli they find his last place of residence eli says i haven't seen him in two months i don't know what happened to him immediately police are like there's something going on with this guy um when they go back to question him a

second time like a week later danny and eli have left town oh so um basically eli drops standing off at a family that he met when he kind of first left um uh ohio where he where they started out um he there's like a family named the barlows in wyoming that he met they i don't think he knew them that well yeah and he brings danny to their house and um drops them off and is basically can you take care of him i have to go and like makes up some reason my hand some business he has to go take care of and he's like i'll be back um and six months later he calls and says he's coming to get danny to take him to danny's grandparents for christmas so he's going to take him to ida's parents oh my god back to amish country danny's

thrilled um and uh then the grandparents are also thrilled because they hear that they're coming back for the holidays and And so they're, they, they haven't seen Danny in five years. So they're thrilled that they get to see him again and reconnect. 10 days later, it's Christmas Eve. They don't show up. Oh no.

So of course they're, the family's really worried. Um, eventually they get a letter from, they get a letter from Eli saying he's skiing with friends in idaho um and then uh they he keeps sending letters just giving them updates on what they're doing out in the world and sometimes danny sends letters too just saying you know i'm learning this in school and blah blah blah so then uh then the grandparents in july so it's like, you know, six months after they didn't show up for Christmas,

they get a letter saying that Danny was killed in a car accident and buried in Wyoming on the family plot of the Barlows, the family that he stayed with. Oh, my God. And the parents, the grandparents were like, well, we want to see. Yeah. Like, tell us more about it. Yeah. And he just doesn't say anything else. So they end up getting on a bus.

These old school Amish people who are not allowed to ride in cars, they break the rule. They get on a bus and they go to Wyoming so that they can go see their grandson's grave. So when they get there, their last name is Gingrich. So the Gingrichs get to the Barlows in Wyoming and they say, will you please show us our grandson's grave? And they don't know

what they're talking about. The last that we heard is Eli came and picked them up and they were going driving around and we haven't heard anything else. There's there, he's not buried here. So then they have to ride back on the bus. Like now they have no idea what's going on. On December 24th, 1985 in Chester, Nebraska, a hunter is walking through a field.

Oh no. Uh-huh. And he sees something across the field and it's fucking cold you know it's nebraska in december um he thinks it's a mannequin he thinks it's a doll and we when he comes up on it it's the body of a young boy in blue pajamas laying on his back with his hand over his heart and it's so cold outside that the the skin is blue and he's dead and authorities can't identify him there's nothing identifying on him so they end up calling him little boy blue and two years later readers digest does a story about little boy blue and the hunter

who found them and how there was no sign of trauma on the body they don't know how he died and they don't the authorities hadn't figured out a cause of death they just know he was wearing blue pajamas so the barlows uh find this story in readers digest magazine no they know that when danny left their house when eli came to pick him up he was wearing blue pajamas shut the fuck up yeah so they have a bad feeling and they go to police or they call police and police come over and the investigator who was on the scene when the body was found is the one that goes to the barlow's house and they go pull out a picture of danny and he immediately knows that's the boy

and they end up taking um some of the things that danny left behind at the barlow's house one of which was a copy of the velotine rabbit book which was his favorite book and they fingerprint off of the pages ofutzman and they realize eli has been sending letters from danny to the grandparents seven months after danny was actually dead in that field so he died immediately after leaving the barlow's house probably because he was pretty much exactly right then in i think it's hazel texas but it may have been something like easel texas but i couldn't uh i couldn't figure out what the narrator was saying but basically in a texas town out i believe it was outside fort worth

eli files a police report because his car gets stolen and immediately the police go and arrest him and he's extradited to wyoming um so when he gets there he tells the police that he picked danny up from barlow's and he was sick when he picked him up and he they were driving all night and um eli just assumed that he was sleeping and then at one point he checked on him because he wasn't responsive and he figured out that he was dead so he took danny's body and laid it out in a field quote where god could find him yeah so in upon learning this and that bullshit story the police reopen ida's death from 1977 and they go talk to ida's doctor who is in this special and he is like this i i'm assuming he's an amish doctor because he's he looks like a character actor from little house on the prairie and he kind of talks like this is very quiet

and basically the police went to them and they were asking, uh, him about Ida's heart problem. And he's like, what are you talking about? She didn't have a heart problem. And they're like, but, and he goes,

what, where did you get that? And they were like the husband. And he's like, no, no, no. She was in perfect health.

So then they know basically that he had something to do with that death, but they have no evidence, um evidence to connect him to it whatsoever. When the, the Austin police ask him about Glenn Pritchard's death, though, he changes his story from what the original story was. And he tells them that he was in the house with danny they heard a gunshot go off but he didn't get up and check to see what the noise was and then yeah right

how you would do if you were in a house and someone else got shot and then the next morning when he got up to check glenn was gone and so he you know he didn't know what happened and never looked into it. So turns out when the police go to talk to the neighbors, the neighbors are like, we could hear them screaming about money at each other constantly. And we heard the gunshot. Oh, my God. So that like the neighbors tell a totally different story. And so basically the theory becomes Danny was there when his father glenn pritchard and he didn't want the witness so he smothered danny and that's why there was no signs of trauma on the body oh my god yeah um

and then left his body in a fucking field which is just the weird like that alone the idea that he thought he was going to be able to tell authorities that, like, left him where God could find him. Like, you thought that was okay somehow, or it's like, no one would think that was okay. You would never do that to your child. It doesn't even make sense. Anyway, in August of 1989, he's sentenced to 40 years in prison. But he's paroled in March of 2002. No.

He ended up serving like a quarter of his term. Stop it, everyone. But when he gets out, he moves to Fort Worth. He lives a super low-key life because he found out while he was in prison that he had HIV. Oh, my God. So he ends up on January 31st 2007 he committed suicide he slashed his wrist sat down in a chair and then watched tv until he bled out and died holy shit yeah um and that Eli Stutzman is the Amish serial killer so it's not serial in the way that we would love it to be.

Listen, we don't want, we don't love it. No, not love it, but like I'm thinking Buffalo Bill when I start this story, but then it is the thing of this is a sociopath slash psychopath who just would kill anybody that got in the way of what he wanted

to do in his life. And the idea that that's coming out of, it's just like it just fascinates me it could be it doesn't matter how you grew up right doesn't matter where you came from if you have that thing in your brain that makes you only want to like win and like dominate people and it doesn't matter if you're like immune to fucking empathy empathy yep you're immune to it yeah you don't give a shit that's crazy you just do what you want and then you leave so many people in your wake you know grant the grandparents of these people all of it and you just don't fucking care um and that again just over your nose knows, Deadly Devotion. That was that. Basically, I just told you that episode of Deadly Devotion, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I love that.

Never heard of it. Incredible. Not just the show, but like the. The concept? Yes. Yeah. Right. Okay.

Beep boop. All right. Listen, like when I said that this is a close this is a closer i didn't mean it was like a light-hearted story so i'm not okay not happy about it but there's no like there's not a ton of like uh gruesome there's no gruesome details in it i mean i feel like if we ever sat down and did like a scientific pie graph or something yeah it would be like the one you can't get out of is dead children right murdered children is the hardest right okay well then this is a little bit all right let me just do this okay okay in the uh in honor of what we talked about last weekend

last week of like uh websites like ranker and all these of like the lists that they do. Yes. This is three super mysterious disappearances. Okay. All right. Yes. Let's do it. I'm changing the rules.

I love doing this. You can do whatever you want. I'm starting with the Springfield three. You know them? Okay. This is so, this is just weird to me because there's, there's not, let's read about it. Okay. The Springfield three story begins June 7th, 1992.

Two friends, Susie Streeter, she's 19 and Stacey McCall, she's 18. So picture the bangs and the fucking bleach blonde hair. They, the two girls graduated from Kickapoo High School the day before. And so they're celebrating like graduation of that sort of thing. So they are seen around 2 a.m. on June 7th, leaving the last of the graduation parties they had attended that evening. They were supposed to spend the night at a friend's house. But when they got to the friend's house, it was too crowded, probably with people sleeping and not sleeping. So they were like, fuck it. We're going back to Susie's house but when they got to the friend's house it was too crowded probably with people sleeping and not sleeping so they were like fuck it we're going back to suzy's house

and at suzy's house was suzy's mom cheryl levitt she's 47 she's a cosmetologist at a local salon she's a single mother and she's really close with her daughter so they go back to her house the next morning around 9 a.m um a friend her boyfriend go to the house to pick up um because the two girls were supposed to have picked them up to go to like a water park for the graduation activities blah blah blah when they get there they find the front door unlocked and they go in the house but there's no sign of any of the three women each of their cars are parked outside and all their personal property is left behind including their purses money keys cigarettes as well as the family dog who's super agitated and locked in the bathroom what so they're like what the fuck the only weird thing at the scene is that the glass

lampshade of the porch light had been shattered but the bulb inside had been left intact so the boyfriend sweeps the broken glass up to be helpful um and uh they while they're inside they also answer a strange and disturbing call from an unidentified male who made sexual innuendos innuendos to who answered the phone the girl of the couple oh it was there yeah so they went to check on them the girl answers the phone so immediately a dirty phone call a dirty phone call immediately she hangs up and then another call immediately comes in again of sexual nature and she hangs up again um let's see so they okay okay the another the mother of the girl um stacy who wasn't who didn't live at the house she later goes to visit the

house to be like where's the fuck's my daughter i can't get a hold of her. And she inside notices all three of the purses are there, of course, sees her daughter's clothing neatly folded from the night before. She calls the police. And after placing the call while checking the phone's answering machine, she finds a strange message left. But somehow it was inadvertently erased, the message. So we don't know what the message is. What? And what it could have meant. And did she say, she just said it was a weird message?

I think it was like another sexual nature message. So police were very interested in the column, believed it may have contained a clue, but it's fucking gone. Just gone forever gone forever because this is early 90s like was it still like a answering machine with tape in it yeah i think so right we just you rewind it yeah and record over it they still existed then yeah although there was um you know that well in our household anyway we got the like call the the answering machine

became it was just in your phone and you just basically got ordered what you wanted right it would take messages but then you could also get that's when star 69 made its grand debut i remember when we had that that like silver and black fucking message machine with a tiny cassette inside and you would listen to a message and then you rewound the tape yep and record it over it and then you could get new messages but you could only get as many messages as were as could be uh left on that little cassette i fucking love that machine i thought it was fascinating it was amazing yeah jesus christ Yeah. Jesus Christ. Okay. So the police aren't called for 16 hours after the women were last seen at 2 a.m. the night before. Okay. And other worried friends and family called and visited a home that day, which means a fucking shit ton of people walk through the house during the day.

10 to 20 people walk through the house during the day 10 to 20 people walked through the house upon arrival the officers noticed no signs of a struggle except for the shattered porch light and they also noted that the beds had been slept in so some had been had been so in 1997 uh levitt and streeter are declared legally dead, but their case files are still officially listed under missing. Investigators received a tip that the women to springfield to scan the corner of the parking lot with ground penetrating radar he found three anomalies roughly the same size quote that he said were consistent with a grave site location in the foundation oh fuck two of the anomalies were parallel and the other was perpendicular.

So like kind of like crosshatched. The Springfield Police Department didn't believe the scan was conclusive enough to justify tearing up the concrete and also said that the parking garage was completed a year after the woman's disappearance. But they could have been left somewhere. Right. So it was never tore up. But people think it's there. Then Reddit's also like, here's how you're fucking wrong. It's somewhere. Right. So it was never tore up. But people think it's there.

Then Reddit's also like, here's how you're fucking wrong. It's not. Oh, okay. So then in 1997, Robert Craig Cox, he's imprisoned in Texas as a convicted kidnapper and robber. And the suspect in a Florida murder, he told journalists that he knew where the three women had been murdered and buried and claimed their bodies would never be found. that he knew where the three women had been murdered and buried and claimed their bodies would never be found. He in 1992 at the time he had been living in Springfield,

but had alibis for the night. But it was like his girlfriend at the time who has since been like, nobody was fucking lying about it. Yeah. He said that he would disclose to what he would disclose what happened to the three women after his mother had died, but he knew what happened. And as of

today a couple tips a month still come in but no one knows what happened to this being this springfield three oh my god yeah these three fucking women and that guy's mother hasn't died i guess not but he's but everyone thinks he but everyone also thinks he's lying oh he's just trying to get some kind of but a kidnapper from that neighborhood you know yeah it's just crazy that's super crazy yeah okay so the next one is um okay so a girl named asia decree i'm sorry asia degree she's born asia is born august 5th 1990 she's a fucking normal nine-year-old fourth grader from shelby north carolina normal girl happy family etc the night of february 14th 2000 asia and her brother went to sleep as usual in the room they shared her older

brother almost an hour later the power went out in the neighborhood after a nearby car accident, which is fucking creepy and weird, but isn't connected to this. But I think it's just creepy. It's restored. And then after that, her dad, Harold, returns home from work

around 1230 in the morning. He checks on his daughter and son, just saw them both sleeping, normal. But shortly after he went to bed around 2 30 a.m he recalls hearing asia's bed squeak at that point allegedly asia got out of bed took a book bag she had previously packed with several sets of clothes and personal items and left the house i've heard of this yeah it's crazy's crazy. It's crazy. She's nine years old. Yes. Leaves. Between 3.45 a.m. and 4.15 a.m., two drivers saw her walking south along Highway 18 wearing a long-sleeved white t-shirt and white pants.

And one witness reported seeing her at about 4 a.m. and said that he turned his car around because he thought it was strange that such a small child would be out by herself at that hour. But when he circled three times, he saw her run into the woods by the roadside and disappear. Oh, it's just bone chilling. I know. To think you're driving, say you're driving home, you went to a party, you're like, I want to leave. I don't want to be at this party. People are like, please just stay two more hours blah blah suddenly 4 a.m is around you're like i'm leaving as you're driving home you're like sober bummed wanted to go home three hours ago this is how i picture everything in my life and then you're driving down a highway and see a child dressed in all white walking with a book bag i would never stop screaming and then you go back you're like what the fuck this is weird you go back and you go to drive by her again and she runs into the fucking woods fucking darts away what do you do call the police you call the police site right you pull your car

over you leave it there yeah call the police but you don't have cell phones yet oh right shit yeah no cell phones yet maybe he went home and called maybe yeah what why wasn't he a rich guy with one of those crazy huge cell phones in his car rich guys because this isn't fucking dallas or whatever tv show they had those in um okay but but but okay and said there was okay it was a rainy night too add that to this motherfucking thing. A rainy night. And the witness said there was a storm raging when he saw her. No. Yeah.

There's no way I wouldn't think that was a ghost if I saw it. Oh yeah. Like, cause it's so insane. Yeah. Um, at 6 30 AM that morning, Asha's mother went into the kid's room to wake them up. She found Asha gone. Um, mother went to the kids room to wake them up she found asia gone um and she called the police who

arrived by 6 45 6 40 a.m police dogs are called to the scene they could not pick up asia's scent so february 17th two days after the search began candy wrappers are found in a shed in a nearby business along the highway near where asia had been seen running into the woods so candy wrappers okay along with them were a pencil a marker and a mickey mouse shaped hair bow that were identified as belonging to her so it's almost like she ran away at this point it seems yeah right yeah but why would a kid run away in a raging storm that doesn't seem normal well yeah i bet it started raining when she was outside right i would think right because any plan you would have if it was rainy you'd be like i'll do this to me yeah for sure okay a week later after no other traces or witnesses were found the

search was called off fbi got involved and noted she was not a typical runaway obviously she was under 12 didn't have normal stuff such as a dysfunctional family she didn't have bad grades um and by all accounts she was a shy sweet girl with close family church community all this shit um she didn't even have a computer in the house so the thing of like her running away to meet someone she met online oh that's not that doesn't make any sense i mean doesn't make sense right right um there was no blood no signs of a struggle or a car accident and for 18 months everything stalled until asia's book bound was book bag was found during a construction project so the backpack with her name and telephone number written inside was found wrapped in a plastic trash bag about 26 miles from her home.

It was said that the bag looks carefully prepared as if she were instructed by an adult what to pack. No. their reinvestigation of the case had turned up a new witness that had come forward and reported seeing a girl who resembled Asia getting into a dark green 1970s Lincoln Mark 4 or Ford Thunderbird

with rust around the wheel and near where she was last seen. So, a scholarship in her name is created for deserving local students and family more family members hold an annual march each february retracing what they believe is the path that she took the night she vanished but they don't know why and the thing about the path she took too

is that it's it's the path that her school bus took in the morning. It's not, or like when she went to school, it's not an easily walkable path. It's almost like it was the only way she knew how to get from certain points in town because she took it every day rather than that was her purposeful planned path. She knows if she's going to go to, say, the town library, this is the way she's going to get to the library.

This is the way you go, yeah. to the library. The way you go. Yeah. Oh, it's just this weird story. That is maddening. Cause it's like, who got into her ear and was like, do you want to audition for TV?

Right. And how come she didn't tell any of her friends like, Oh, I met this person or her parents. Like, Oh my God. That's maddeninging and how long ago did it happen this happened in it happened in 2000 man yeah and she's nine it's so much younger than yeah that's like that makes me think it's like someone who's like made her can made her believe something that she could have something that she normally couldn't have yeah yeah like if you meet me here

i i'm giving away this pony right shit right fuck it's really and then like all of that up until that point is like okay she ran away from home for a certain reason everything would have been normal but then when they find her backpack buried wrapped in plastic something she ran into someone or something and the things in the backpack yeah if somebody like that idea that she packed it specifically for a reason yeah it was a plan yeah god damn fucked up horrifying all right the last one has a resolution okay um okay bobby dunbar ready for this yes okay bobby dunbar was the firstborn son um to lessee and percy dunbar of opelia oh. Oh, Hawaii? No. To a town in Louisiana.

Okay. Opelousas. Nope. Louisiana. In August 1912. I think Lucinda, I could be wrong, but Lucinda Williams has a song.

It's, say it. I think it's Opelousas. Opelousas. That must Say it. I think it's Opal. Opal. Losses. Opal Losses. That must be it. Or am I thinking of Nagadochas?

Yeah, forget it. This song might be about Bobby Dunbar. Yeah. Okay. In August of 1912. Oh. Yeah. The Dunbars took a fishing trip to nearby Swayze Lake in St. Landry Parish, Louisiana. While on that trip, little Bobby Dunbar disappears.

After an eight-month search, authorities found a handyman traveling through Mississippi with a boy, and it's like this crazy search with his photo everywhere. It's this missing child, blah, blah, blah, who appeared to match the description of Bobby Dunbar. missing child, blah, blah, blah, who appeared to match the description of Bobby Dunbar. The man with him, William Cantwell Walters, he claims that the boy was actually named Charles Bruce Anderson, and he was the son of a woman who worked for his family. And that the boy's mother named Julia Anderson she had willingly granted him in custody of this boy and

it doesn't matter fucking Walters is arrested and authorities sent for the Dunbars to come to Mississippi and identify this boy that they think is their son. Oh okay. They think it's his son. They think it's Bobby Dunbar. Do you know how much longer it was after he disappeared? It was eight months.

Oh, okay. Yeah, so pretty quickly. Upon seeing the missing son, her missing son, there's differing reports. Some say that the mother, Leslie, freaked out and was like, my son and Bobby Dunbar was like, mom, you know, and they embraced. And other people said that the boy cried and said that and agreed that this wasn't that his mother you know was someone else yeah um how could those how could it be two different exact opposite stories like didn't it happen in a in a police station yeah but there'd be an official

yeah but media man they like to true Not that they're Not talking shit on media Everyone's great Vital Etc Now more than ever So Yeah So they're like

Alright Maybe this is our kid Let's bring him home Tonight and see How it goes It's just like the changeling It's just like the changeling Fuck

In real fucking light It happened like 30 years before Yeah Fuck okay Can you imagine I mean I guess at the time You don't have photos or something but not knowing if this person is your kid or not how does that happen i don't know well but in the changeling she knew it wasn't our kid and it was the cops going no crazy bitch this is your kid right and it's also like a

grease-stricken mother who's like this resembles my kid i really want it to be my kid they're telling me it's my kid maybe they're right exactly yeah like the your worst fear is that your child is gone forever so anybody's showing up and being like it's me you know yeah but he was the kid wasn't even like according to certain stories the kid was like no this isn't my this isn't who i am this is not my parent also you have to think of this kid that was just being driven around randomly by some dude. Yeah. What was he, what was happening to him?

Yeah. And what kind of state of shock and freak out was he in? It's almost like you combine two people who are in shock and trauma together. Totally. And it's like, yeah. Okay. So yeah, you're not going to gonna say that okay the police officers the

mother's not gonna be like no you guys are wrong this isn't you know you're not gonna do that no i thought how many bad haircuts have i gotten where as it's happening i'm like well you're you're the boss yeah looks great i guess i don't know what i like anymore yeah that's true so they they're like we don't know if it's him we bring him home tonight we give him a bath and then the next day they're like yep that's our kid based on moles and scars they're like it's totally our son all is well

so the boy goes home with the Dunbar's there's a fucking parade and fanfare celebrating the homecoming everyone's like we found you know we found the missing dunbar boy um and then shortly after julia anderson the mother of the boy who originally was supposed to be that wasn't bobby dunbar she's in north carolina she arrives

uh and you know is like that's actually my kid and i didn't tell him he could take him for that long but she goes to his uh his she goes to his hold on okay okay she's unmarried and worked as a field hand for the family of the man who had him she said that she allowed him to take her son for what said was supposed to be a two-day trip to visit one of um walter's relatives and that she had not consented for him to take him for more than a few days okay yeah so uh so so this woman julia is presented with five different boys basically a fucking boy photo lineup yeah uh and the same age as her son, including the boy who had claimed to, who'd been claimed by the Dunbar's and the boy is presented. He gave no ink.

Um, he gave no indication that he recognized this woman as his mother. Oh yeah. And she asked whether that he was the boy recovered. She was like, set the boy you found, like didn't totally recognize him at first either. Also,

what do you give a shit? Aren't you looking for your son? What, why are you asking other questions? Yeah. Just, she didn't totally recognize him at first either. Also, what do you give a shit? Aren't you looking for your son? Why are you asking other questions? Yeah. Just name your son. She didn't know for sure. She was like, is that? How do you?

Okay. Yes. Right? She said she was unsure at the end of it. And I'm wondering, so this kid who's supposed to, who's now is or isn't the bobby dunbar boy like goes home with this family they have a maybe a nice house and all this nice and he sees his mother trying to get him back who's a field hand yeah and he doesn't

say anything maybe yeah you know he's like sad as that is well and also he's she's the one that put him in that car with that man yeah and to to whatever end that was she thought he thought she didn't want her anymore maybe and was just like huh yeah i'm not going back to this shit yeah okay um but she takes she takes the boy back with her and sees him the next day or I guess in the station, she undresses him. So this fucking kid is getting undressed left and fucking right by people. Jesus Christ. She then indicated a strong certainty that the boy was her son, Bruce, and not Bobby Dunbar. Okay.

But of course, everyone was already like, fuck you, poor lady. That's not true. You're lying. So, of course, then the newspapers question her moral character because she had had three children the other two which were deceased by that point out of wedlock and so her claims were dismissed oh yeah but she does go to the kidnapping trial of this guy walters and says and repeats that you know he didn't she didn't kid he didn't kidnap my son um and the court reaches the determination that the boy was bobby dunbar conclusively they were like period it's not this other kid bruce it's bobby dunbar um this guy

walters is convicted of kidnapping and the boy remains in the custody and grows up with the dunbar family as bobby Dunbar the kid who had gone missing when they went camping yeah okay so think wait this does have a resolution you're gonna know what happens yeah okay pretty much please god okay because this is nuts this is like four movies combined yeah because it also reminded me of the uh the Wineville chicken coop murder yes there's some that's what oh it's the same thing as a changeling that's right but that chicken coop murder story is insane it's so fucked up but there were kids who at the end of that were

afraid they were going to get in trouble so they denied that they belonged to the parents that were there to claim them i'm thinking of those two things as two separate things but it was basically just the end of the story where they were like nope that's not me because they thought they were gonna get like spanked yeah like it's that crazy little kid mentality yeah okay it's so sad okay so but this this boy is raised as bobby dunbar whether or not it's him for sure um he marries has four children of his own and dies in 1966 having lived out the remainder of his life as bobby dunbar wow this guy okay years after his death one of his granddaughters margaret dunbar cut right begins her own investigation of the events because i think it was like a family

fucking story that nobody wanted to talk about so she uh pours through newspaper accounts interviews the children of julia anderson the woman who claimed that that kid was hers. And they actually said to her, you know, this man came and visited, visited us. And I think it was him trying to see like the kid who was raised as Bobby Dunbar as an adult came back to the town where they lived to meet his maybe siblings. Oh. town where they lived to meet his maybe siblings oh um and examine the notes and evidence presented at walter's defense uh presented by walter's defense attorney for his kidnapping trial and appeal in 2004 um after an associated press reporter approached the family about the story bobby dunbar jr consented to undergo a DNA test to resolve the issue.

The test showed that the kid raised as Bobby Dunbar was 100% not related to the Dunbars. Holy shit. Yeah. So that poor fucking woman that came down is like, this is my son. He got taken away from me. They were like, too late. We already did the parade. It's this.

It's a permanent tape has been tickered. Once ticker that tape it's over lady you can't go back it's just this whole thing too you've got to wonder like did did the parents of bobby dunbar know in their heart and were okay because they just couldn't come to terms with the fact that maybe their son was dead. Did Julia Anderson, was she like, this kid has a better life now. I'm fucking pissed. But I'm not going to fight that hard because these are good people. He's being raised. Yeah. Who knows?

Well, okay. So apparently Julia would speak of her lost son, Bruce, a lot. And that the family always regarded him as having been kidnapped by the Dunbars. So they never got over it. Okay. But there is an incredible This American Life about this case called The Ghost of Bobby Dunbar. I think it's from like 2004. I remember listening to it and just, I was like painting my bedroom one weekend and then had to sit down in the middle of the room just to fucking listen to it because it was so powerful so it's an incredible episode

you should definitely listen to it um and in it margaret dunbar cut right they kind of they interview her through it she expresses the opinion that the real bobby dunbar the kid who went fucking camping at swayze lake uh that he was probably eaten by alligator an alligator back in 1912 that's what she thinks happened whoa it kind of also reminds me of the someone knows something season one where it's like did this kid drown or did something happen to him yes it's that sort of thing too where it's like he disappeared did he get kidnapped did he die but she thinks that he probably drowned or because it's a thing of like out in nature, it could be anything. You can't even figure out like anything could happen.

And like that idea of just an alligator going, and that being it, like that happens often. It's fucking Louisiana. Like those alligators are up in there. I can't believe. See, this makes, makes and i'm upset because when you look up the wineville chicken coop murders yeah or watch the movie the changeling you should then there should be some if you like this read about this yeah because that's like so fascinating yeah old timey kidnappings and missing people fucking fascinate me. Because there was like no DNA, no phones.

Barely any photographs. Barely forensics. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. The ghost of Bobby Dunbar, This American Life. Amazing. That was great.

So that was three creepy fucking missing people. Insane. Stories. Oh my God. Should we do our favorite thing as what happened at our first show in Dallas yes okay so why don't you fucking tell everyone okay fucking fucking shut up is that what I sound like no no uh please I do it all the time um No. Okay. So we had a special guest at our Dallas show and it was really thrilling. Jennifer Maury Caldwell, who we talked about in episode 53.

Was it? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think we said it. 51. Somewhere in the 50s. Whatever.

I just put it. There's a photo of it on Instagram. It was episode 33. the 50s whatever i just put there's a photo of it on instagram uh it was episode 33 essentially it was the i survived story that i retold of the woman who lived in the gated apartment community specifically for the security ends up waking up the middle of the night being attacked her power is cut the phone's cut um a guy stabs her and then the 911 operator stays on the phone with her and when the security guard comes to ask to be let in, he says, don't let him in.

And it ends up that the security guard was the person who attacked her. Yeah. And it's the craziest story. She tells it herself. I basically just retold her version of that story as she tells it on I Survived as an episode. We heard from her sometime after

and just saying, hi, I heard, you know, whatever. I heard this. Which was a huge thing for us. I think, you know, we just didn't expect that. And we've always kind of wondered what impact what we do has on people. And so getting that specifically from the victim of the story was and it was a positive email was so it felt so good. Yes, it was really nice. And it was like someone going, I get exactly what you're doing and I approve.

And it happened to me and I approve. So that in and of itself was exciting. Then we, she lives in Dallas. So she let us know that she tried, I think she tried to get tickets and they were sold out. She was so sweet. She was like,

Hey, I tried to get tickets to Dallas, but it's sold out. Do you think maybe? And I was like hey i tried to get tickets to dallas but it's sold out do you think maybe and i was like yes yes so she and her lovely family came to our shows in dallas and she at the end of the show instead of doing hometowns we asked her up on stage and the audience went fucking ballistic and i fucking i i started ugly heevy crying we all were crying and i think everyone in the audience was crying yes um and basically she so she we basically want to play this moment for you we don't want to wait until whenever it comes up that we're going to play this live

episode because it was just so cool and so um i don't know there's probably a lot of long silences because there's definitely moments where we're hugging or just crying or whatever. But it was just really an honor and a privilege to meet her. She's the coolest woman. She is so chill. She's a lawyer. She's got this beautiful family who all came with her who were also super cool. And she also told us backstage the 911 operator from her story.

It was his first day on the job. It was the second 911 call he had ever taken. And he, they ended up, they were lifelong friends. She danced with him at her wedding. Like the, he was the third person that she danced with at her wedding.

Um, you know, she, it was just the coolest. We, we got to meet her and talk to her. We were honored to be part of this. So here's that moment.

Now, normally this is the part where we do a hometown, but we actually tonight, tonight we have a surprise guest for you that we're very, very excited to bring out on stage. Just a special guest that we want to introduce you guys to. Oh, there's Vince. And you actually, There's Vince. And you actually... It's not Vince.

There's Vince. You might remember because we talked about her case on one of our episodes. And she is here in the audience tonight with us. I don't remember the number. Oh, she's walking down right now. She has been in the audience with you this whole time. Her story was on an episode of I Survived. That's Jennifer Mori Caldwell right there. Thank you so much for being here. Oh my god.

I know. You guys do this. You can turn the lights. Hi. Hi, honey. Hi. It's nice to see you. You guys too.

So when we did this episode, all I did was retell Jennifer's story from her words from an episode of I Survived. Because I'm lazy sometimes. I like to do stuff like that. But also because the story was so incredible and the way she told it was so incredible. It's one of my favorite episodes. Sorry. Sorry.

You told my story so beautifully that the night I heard it, my husband and I drank a whole bottle of wine and I cried and I cried and I cried. Oh God.

You, you honored me when you told my cried. Oh God. You, you honored me what you told my story. Thank you. That's so nice. Thank you. Where are those damn tissues? Tammy, thank God. Is there one for Jennifer? It's all we have. I mean, we're just... I get Stevens! Wait, I wiped my nose on that one. After that episode, you sent us an email,

and then we freaked out, and we couldn't believe it, because a lot of times when we do these stories and we do this stuff, we never knew any of this part was going to happen. For a long time, we did this podcast in George's apartment talking to each other. So the idea that the person we're talking about responded

and was like, yay. It was the most, it was just so exciting and so cool. And so then you emailed us and were like, can I come to a show when you come to Dallas? And we're like, yeah, we can get you in. Free tickets. Thank you. So, yeah.

You know, I'm a lawyer. And if you guys know my attack story, my attack's not part of my daily life. I can't let it be. And so I'm sitting in my office one day last September or October and I had a lawyer say to me, your maiden name's Moray, right? And I'm like, yeah?

And she goes, you were attacked, right? Yeah? and I'm like yeah and she goes you were attacked right and she yeah and she goes oh my god there was this podcast on that you last night holy shit and it floored me and so I went home that night and I told my husband I think there's this thing

and so we like googled and found this thing. And we sat there and listened to it. And it wasn't something I was really prepared to listen to, but I have to say again. And I listened to it again yesterday to get ready. You talked about me like you were my friend. And I'm going to cry again. It was a horrible experience. Don't get me wrong.

But God has, I mean, God or whatever has, has blessed me so much. And I've got my husband, Gary and my two kids are here tonight. So everybody here, if you ever have anything terrible happen to you, and unfortunately too many of us will have something terrible happen to us, I hope it doesn't happen to you. This show talks a lot about anxiety. I've become a murderino. My daughter is 15,

and she probably shouldn't listen to the show, but she does. On road trips, we listen to this. Anyway, if something bad ever happens to anybody out there, I hope you guys have something as... I mean, God, this has just been such a gift to have you honor me and to have people all over the world reach out to me and honor me, so thank you. And what you do, we're all fascinated and horrified by these crimes,

but the way you bring laughter to what you could cry or laugh, pick one. Let's laugh. Yeah. So thank you guys. Yay. Thank you so much. Amazing. Shit.

Oh, yeah. We are so honored to have you guys. Amazing. This means so much to us. Thank you. And thank you guys for being here. And? Stay sexy.

Don't get murdered. Thanks, you guys. Bye.