My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 98 - Grasp It

Episode Date: December 7, 2017

Karen and Georgia cover serial killer Marcel Petiot and the murder of Peggy Hettrick. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca for business. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign

to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. Should we do some coffee sips for the ASMR people? Okay. Oh wait,, God.

Welcome to My Favorite Murder. God, the coffee episode. We're recording at around 4 o'clock in the afternoon in the sooty skies of Los Angeles, California. It's just, everything is burning. The world is burning down down and right in the center of it, we're here to help you enjoy murder. The soothing voice of Karen Kilgariff.

And Georgia Hartstark over to my left. And of course, the big sipper himself, Stephen Ray Morris. Yeah, did you do a nice loud one? I was hot. Could you hear yourself? No you gotta take the hit for the show You were hot

Alright He took another big sip Like I'm making him chug it Like he's joining a frat Let's pause and chug coffee And then let's get back on and talk And just start screaming Like we can't talk

Because our mouths are burned Yeah That's a subset of asmr videos what burned mouth asmr video do you know what i watched on repeat for like that wasn't true what were you about to say oh i just watched this video there's this there's this um instagram called like burn it and they just fucking burn things i think it's like an asmr for your eyeballs is that a thing yes it's called um and they your eyeballs. Is that a thing? Yes. It's called... Especially if you're an arsonist.

What's it called? Steven Dino? No. It's called... What liking things burning down is? Yeah. Like watching things burn. So they'll pour acid on like soap and you just watch it.

And sometimes you can hear it bubbling or they'll just torch like a fucking... Like a little toy, plastic child's toy. Oh. Child's toy. But I watched them melting a tube of lipstick over and over. So satisfying. What did they use to melt it? Like a fire, like a lighter.

Wow. It was so soothing and satisfying. I bet. Did it all, did like the liquid, like the lipstick itself melt and then the plastic melt afterwards? Just the lipstick, they did. No, I'm just saying. Yeah, they didn't do it. Describe the order of melting to me.

They only put it onto the lipstick and the lipstick melted. Oh, not the container. Oh, God. That was it. Elvis has joined us. Hey, Elvis. Let's talk about murder. I have an update from the amish murders that i talked about

a couple weeks ago this email says karen durges steven and all the animals lost my shit listening to you tell the little boy blue murder my friends made fun of me so it would be ideal if you could read this on the podcast so they feel hella dumb in your fucking face i grew up on a farm fuck you so she'll read it who doesn't i grew up on a farm around the area where the body was found but i had to let you know that you miss the uplifting gives you hope in the whole fucked up story ending uh the people of chester population 225 raised money to bury the unidentified boy under the name of matt matthew which means gift from god the memorial service was packed with 400 people almost double the population of the entire town

people still visit his grave and leave toys and flowers and they maintain his memorial even rebuilding it after a tornado i grew up there about a decade later and i still heard the story and my parents pointed out the memorial every time we drove by. The town completely adopted the little boy blue, and even now feels so strongly about honoring his memory. Just thought you might like to know that even though there are crazy assholes who murder their wives, roommates, and children, there are also tiny Nebraska towns who open their hearts to show a lot of love.

SSDGM, can't wait to catch you in St. Louis in a couple weeks, Kaylee. Aww. I love it. Nebraska. I love a, I mean, always let us know if there's an uplifting ending we've missed. Jesus. That's amazing. Can someone email us right now and tell me about my story this week's uplifting ending?

Because I couldn't find it. it oh it's a bummer yeah um i okay okay you were gonna tell me about a show that you watch that you really like called where it's a movie okay it's a documentary so it's um an author named gay talese who uh is was very famous for doing kind of like expose type of essay long reads in the 70s. I've never, I made most of that up based on what I saw briefly in this documentary. I've always heard his name. I've never read him. But anyway, he's clearly brilliant and has been doing it forever.

And he got contacted by a man. I'll just do this the lightest version possible. So there's no spoilers. He was contacted by a man who had a 30 year secret. And the secret is, cause obviously the name of the movie is voyeur. The man owned a motel that he set up so that he could go watch people through the vents and the ceilings in every room.

Oh my God. But he didn't record it it on video he just would go up there watch them and then recorded in minute detail what he saw like into a tape recorder and onto a into a journal and then he basically gave gates lease these writings oh can you imagine how happy he she was it it you have to see it because at first I'm like, this is so weird and disgusting. This guy is such a pervert. But no one's acting like that at the beginning. And it's just a fascinating.

I just highly recommend it. I'm going to watch that. Do you think you've ever been like watched illegally? You know what I mean? Like in a hotel room? Odds are yes. God, I think I would think. All the gross things I've done. And I hope it wasn't then. In a hotel room? Odds are yes. God, I think that's all the gross things I've done.

And I hope it wasn't then. In a hotel room, you know? Well, I think that's the appeal of hotel rooms. You're supposed to. It's like this weird kind of neutral space where you get to do things you would never do at home. Right. And so that's kind of like, he was already a voyeur. And then he bought the motel.

It's a motel. He bought it with that in mind that's crazy because he knew that would be the perfect place why am i like well he at least he didn't videotape them it's like that's not better i know but these days we're all just trying to go like is it the worst thing ever are we trying to like oh can we hold back a little judgment but i think that's what this documentary is kind of about yeah is the way we all do that in lots of different ways i love it it's good i highly recommend it i want to recommend this show that i found that i had to watch three times on amazon it's a pilot i don't know if it's i don't think it's gotten picked up yet

it's called sea oak and it's so fucking weird and good it's like a dark comedy okay we're it's glenn close oh that's this like boring old woman who lives with her like niece and nephew nieces and nephew and it's fucking crazy and gets really dark okay i want to say that essentially essentially and i'm kind of spoiling it but this is what the prep okay glenn close jack quaid he's like the boy in it and he's like the cutest little thing you've ever seen who is not boy he's like a guy he's like've ever seen. Who is he? He's like a guy. He's like a grown man. Is he Dennis Quaid's relative? I don't know.

Is it Sea Oak like the ocean? S-E-A Oak? S-E-A Oak. It's like, and I think it takes place in a like dystopian future kind of. Okay. It's really good. I want to watch more episodes. I hope they make more.

Now I really want to watch it. Can I do one more? Yeah. Because it just, I didn't talk about Godless last week, did I? Mm-mm. It's a Western

that's on Netflix and apparently, I tweeted about it, how badass it is because it's great and Merritt Weaver is one of the stars and she was from Nurse Jackie.

She's one of my very favorite actresses. Oh, yes. She's the one who gave that Emmy speech by walking up and going, thanks and leaving and I was like i've never loved anyone more she's the best oh it's good but she's also such a great great great actress but anyway it's this it's basically this town and this town a western town in i think it's new mexico i can't remember they're just besieged

by bad guys and what happens to the town there's a little history before there's a certain circumstance um is it a western it's a western and but lady mary from downton abbey is in it michelle dockery this amazing actor british actor named jack somebody who is just like hot as can be and and then jeff daniels plays the bad guy oh i think vince and I started watching this. It's very slow at first because it's a Western and it's like they're doing it just like Westerns

get done. I cannot tell you how much Westerns bore me. Right. And I know like, I know I'm going to get shit for that but it's like. Well, it's your opinion. They're so slow. Well, not all of them. And sometimes it's, I feel like this knew what it was doing. Yeah.

So it had, it did a thing at the beginning that was so crazy. Also, Sam, the one from Law and Order, who I love. Oh, yeah. With the, yeah. Anyway, there's a beginning that goes, you just are like, what the fuck is this? And then it goes into really unfolding but there's an interesting thing someone sent me a link um that said i got bummed out about that show after i read this article and it was an article that was like trying to be a takedown

saying people are saying this is the feminist western we've all been waiting for and here's how it's not um but i would just encourage people because i know sometimes people write those things and i understand it's kind of trying to say like don't label things right the thing that you say it is if it's not going to do a b and c right especially if the person who made it that wasn't their intention i don't think it was their intention but i will argue that you see women in this series doing things you have never seen them in any modern right or otherwise kind of show before and this is the old west yeah so it should it like has more meaning i don't know i just thought it was really brilliantly written and

acted um so anyway just in case somebody's gotten a hold of a bad article i would just say test the waters first okay for at least a couple episodes. Because it's I think it's really good. Okay, I'll do it. Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, also merch corner. We're so we have our 2017 tour is over as of this weekend.

So we're going to post some merch that we only sold at live shows. And it was designed by our friend dave clock who's a fucking super talented artist you may have seen all of his posters he did the meltdown show he did like all of their posters and designs and it was really awesome stuff and so we had him uh draw something for us and it's beautiful and you can get it at my favorite murder shirts.com and it's, it's cool. Yeah, that's it. Um,

get those. I, I got a, Steven just gave me a printed up Instagram. Apparently this is what you kids spend all your time on, on this Instagram. Um, I don't go on there, but it was from Colleen Elizabeth.

Colleen's the chick. Her name was Colleen. What'd you say? god damn it clarissa explains it all uh it explains everything she she replied uh she sent a picture of what she gave me and drawing that we talked about last week the beautiful horizon drawing yeah she yeah um so she said i gave a painting to mfm's Caracal Garef at the Minneapolis show. I was too broke to buy good tickets, so my friend and I bought cheap ones,

and I left the painting with a girl sitting at the VIP table. I was pretty sure it would never make it to her. The shout out on the pod was more than I ever expected, and the outpouring of support is overwhelming. My shop is empty. I love it. Thanks to a few murderinos who bought things.

New work is coming soon. Thanks you guys. I'm humbled by the support. Also, um, my frames are made by my incredible boyfriend at MN creative woodcraft. Uh, he's an amazing woodworker and the best frame maker I've never paid.

And I specifically mentioned the frame because it's the coolest. It's like, it's floating inside a frame. I went on her site cause we posted it. You see the photo on instagram uh on my favorite murder instagram i went on her site and i'm like fucking gonna buy something when she reposts there's so there's so many and they're so beautiful oh good i look at i've when i first put it up i put it in a weird spot and then i realized i want to put it in a spot i pass constantly it's that like soothing to me it's so nice.

I love it. Yay. And thanks you guys for supporting her. Yeah. Everyone. You murderinos are fucking good people. Thank you. Yeah.

So who's going first this week based on our new algorithm? How's your, how's your murder? I don't believe in the new algorithm. Okay. It doesn't work that way. Okay. I mean,

you know what I mean? Yeah. I went, well, how about I went first last week? Yeah, I'll do it in the new algorithm. Okay. It doesn't work that way. Okay. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. I went, well, how about I went first last week? Yeah, I'll do it. Right? Yes. Steven, God damn it. Steven, it's one of the 29,000 things you have to do.

You had 29,000 things to do, Steven. And you can't do this one. I definitely went first. I'm going to check my notes. My notes. Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God. We don't even need you. Who cares about your notes?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because Karen went last time. Yeah. I went about your notes? Yeah, yeah, because Karen went last time. Yeah. I went first last time? Oh, last last. You went last last time. Why don't we just say, okay.

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Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others

were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation hollywood exiles from cbc podcasts and the bbc world service available now on spotify well then let me tell you a little something about a man and you may have heard of him uh he was an evil doctor during world war ii named marcel petois oh my god i think that's how you say his name that sounds beautiful i've watched a documentary about him i've done a couple

things i still can't remember how to pronounce his name petois sounds beautiful p-e-t-i-o-t i mean i took french for two years so i'm pretty much a citizen yeah okay all right so Marcel Patois was born January 7th 1897 at what did you write it's the eighth word and I'm stopped cold no it's auxerre I believe or auxerre maybere, maybe. Okay. A-U-X-E-R-R-E. You know what I might do for the rest of this story is replace French words with American ones. So, he was born January 17th, 1897 in Austin, France, a hundred miles south of Paris. His neighbors allege that he enjoyed torturing animals from an early age. And they say his first arrest.

And a lot of people say that this is stuff that came up after, after his most famous arrest and that it was just neighbors talking and making stuff up. But it doesn't seem out of the bounds of any story we've ever told before. Like his first arrest uh was after he made sexual advances toward a male classmate then fired his father's gun inside a classroom he was 11. oh shit i was like great in college that's fine if you do that if you shoot a gun in college it's expected it's like van wilder shit. You've got to do it.

Sure. It's how you get it out. The freshman 15 millimeter. Bullets. Bullets. Yeah. So then between 1907, 1909, when he was between 10 and 12 years old, his parents told doctors that he was prone to convulsions and sleepwalking. And he habitually wet his trousers

and bed don't wet your trousers that means head injury probably right head injury and maybe it sounds to me with the other stuff that he's done in his life that he was like a psychopath maybe from or some serious organic brain issue was taking place. Like, classic shit. So classic, let's get a swing in there. Sorry. Thank you for belching away from... I just want everyone to know that she just keeps like, you keep throwing, like, kind of throwing yourself back onto the couch to belch and then coming

back forward. It's not belching, it's like a little hiccup. Just doing a... No, that was a full-on belch. Good. Okay. This is a real ASMR episode. In the bad way. Okay, so his mother dies in 1912. His father takes a job 15 miles away. He has to stay with his aunt.

Him and his brother go to live with his aunt. And while he's, between, when he's staying with her, he gets expelled from one school. He gets sent back with his dad. He gets expelled from another school. Jesus. All from, quote, gets expelled from another school all from quote over excitement and quote unruly behavior so he's just he's out of his mind um and then he finishes his education in a special Academy in Paris in July of 1915. um so then when he's a teenager he gets into the petty crime standard fare. He robs a mailbox, but in court he's found not guilty because of mental illness.

So he said a pattern starts to set up pretty early of he does fucked up shit. He claims insanity or, or gives them, um, uh, he tells them about stuff and they go, oh no, he doesn't have to go to jail, he's crazy. And then he gets out and just keeps on doing stuff, which I think could be a theory. The psychopath learned early that if you say I have these things, then you never have to kind of pay for your crimes. You just do whatever you want.

That's kind of what it seems like. So in 1916, he's drafted into the french infantry to fight in world war one uh i typed world war one j so i don't know if that was that was a side project you know remember when world war one started and then it was it was a through uh before j maybe what you're doing is you try to make an emoji of a smiley face you know when someone does that and they don't have an iphone and it's just a j maybe maybe it's world war smiley face oh my god that's a cute war it was world war one is like have you ever watched like a movie that's like a true to life world war one story where it's like it's the horrifyingest horrifying and horrifying it's

like everything was up close like bayonet style but then some mustard gas and they would go through it went on and on they killed millions of people it's snowing you don't have any you don't have fucking boots for snow no it's barbed wire trenches filled with water and rats it's barbed wire. Trenches. Mud. Fucking filled with water and rats. It's like they went to a mud field and were like, let's settle it here. And then they just kept sending people. The soldiers would come out and they would have to go to rest homes because they would have shell shock. And they would just get sent back out over and over and over. It's crazy. Just a nightmare town.

Picture it, everyone. Put yourself there. Let's go there. Now, in a town called A-I-S-N-E, he had been gassed. He was wounded. And then he exhibited signs of a mental breakdown. Now, of course, it would make perfect sense that he would be doing that anyway. But he also could have been trying to get out of going there. I would, too.

100%. He went to what they called them clinics and rest homes. So he got sent to a couple where he was arrested for stealing army blankets. Where are you going to go with that blanket, Marcel? What do you, what? Marcel, how many do you even need? I mean, you can't march with them. You're going to get caught by the guy that yells.

Okay. He's jailed for that and then they put him back onto the front in uh june of 1918 like three weeks later he shoots himself in the foot literally yeah that's what i would have done and that's the thing that they it used to be that they would people would do that or put their hand up did you ever there was a movie where the guy puts his hand up and gets his hand shot off and then he's uh what is that cowardice they they court-martial you for that yeah um anyway he does that he gets diagnosed with amnesia sleepwalking depression and suicidal tendencies and he ends up getting discharged

with a 40 disability pension um then in september of 1920 he his case gets reviewed and they up the rating to a hundred percent oh my god it would be very fascinating i want to there's so much in this story it's crazy i honestly do i say it all the time but i really do want to read a book about this one because to figure out or to read about was it him learning the system and gaming it or was he fucking bananas yeah and did the bananas build into what his crimes that came later the bananas the bananas build no whole banana tree uh okay so the person that reviewed that and said he should have 100 disability also suggested that he be committed to an asylum um but he had already entered a mental hospital

not as a patient he had gone through an accelerated education program for war veterans and he'd gone to he in eight months he finished medical school and he was serving a two-year psychiatric internship see he's putting it on he's putting the whole thing on he knows i couldn't do that and i'm a fucking sound well well because he's a i mean he's from what they say he was a super genius this is part that's part he's like a super villain me too uh true true so anyway he so now he's like they it's like the patients are running the asylum anyway so fascinating um i wish we could just see like all i want is like a 10 second video clip of him i know it does it doesn't exist and it's impossible but wouldn't that be cool well i'll tell you this if you want to think about him while i tell you the story he has kind of crazy ron lynch hair that doesn't help many people

who are listening sorry he well you know what he has kind of steven here he's got he's got hair that it looks like he throws it back and forth in every direction across his head all the time because it's like floofy yeah and well there's a lot of body and some curl um and he also has a mustache what then are you a time traveler here's the difference though and we're gonna keep our eye on you, Steven. One of his eyes is way bigger than the other. So there's a picture of him that kept coming up when I was trying to find videos on YouTube. And it looks like a cartoon of a surprised person. But that's what his face looked like.

Surprise. I'm a psychopath. Surprise. My eyes look crazy. He, yeah, he gets his degree on December 15th, 1921 from Faculté des Médecins d'Opéry. That was great. Thank you.

I got super scared in the middle. And then he becomes a full-on doctor. What the fuck? It says full-fledged on the paper because I got it pasted in. So, so then he starts a practice in Villeneuve-sur-Yon.

I mean. And he's getting paid by his patients who come to see him. And then he's also still getting government assistance. And he's on tons of drugs. So he's one of those doctors it's like you know popping pills the whole time they're all on drugs right i mean wouldn't you be yeah because also you have

to know how drugs work you have to take them a little bit yeah you have to kind of educate yourself right but then also you just have them around yeah freebies it's like me with those fucking peanut m&ms i can't keep my hand out of that thing. Anyhow. Oh, you. Okay, so they believe his first victim is a woman named Louise Deleveaux, and she is the daughter of one of his elderly patients. He starts having an affair with her in 1926, and soon after that affair starts, their home is burglarized and set on fire um and

they they suspect him marcel patois um and then louise disappears may 1926 the woman he's having a affair it disappears that's right okay So it's like they're dating. It's all going off. She's like, he might be the one. Did you say she was elderly? Her relative was elderly who went. It's almost like the young girl brought the old grandma to the doctor. Got it. And then he's like, well, hello.

Hello to you, young lady. And hello to you. Okay. So the neighbors say that they saw Patoois load a big trunk into his car. And then weeks later, one is fished out of a river that looks very similar to the one that they saw him loading into his car. And when they fish it out of the river, it's filled with dismembered, decomposed remains of a young woman who's never identified. What? dismembered decomposed remains of a young woman who's never identified and the police um after learning all of the that cell hole setup decide that she's a runaway so no yeah you know those

fucking 1920s french runaways they throw on their beret and they're fucking out of there get the fuck out of there you can kind of get a baguette anywhere so you could be on the road for as long as you wanted back in the day later days au revoir motherfuckers that's right bring that red lipstick girl girl just throw it in your pocket and smoke okay the same year now it's gonna seem like i'm changing the subject to a different podcast he runs for mayor what's the thing where you're like yeah you oops i i was doing another paper on something else and i combined the two yeah i'm like what wikipedia article is this that i'm cutting and pasting now no he's guys all over the place he's he's got a ton of energy he's got wild eyes because he has all the

meds he needs yeah but he's just taking coke pills for real can. Can I have a coke pill, please? I mean, here's the downside. We were actually talking about this the other night because I was telling somebody one of my speed in the 90s resulting in seizure stories. And I was like, everybody thinks you go through this thing in your 20s

and 30s where you're like, I can just kind of do whatever. And then it's like your late 30s and early 40s is when you find out you absolutely can't yeah like there's going to be a bottom dropping out of this kind of casual adderall phase that everyone goes through which god bless no judgment yeah but like you can't do it forever and you got to make a plan for when you stop because it's bad for you like your heart valves and shit oh no be careful okay as for someone who is on fucking permanent seizure medication let me just tell you from the other side of that it's not pretty and it hasn't happened yet it's gonna be like the new like mesothelioma ads that are on tv

do you think i'm gonna be like fucked in any way how much do you take have you ever had a heart attack not yet should i do it right now well let's just keep our eye on that i mean listen everybody's doing what they need to do you know what i mean these days especially so okay so he's out leading the people um all right the mayor thing yeah we have to get back into the story that doesn't make any sense with what i was have been telling you about okay can he lay low no he cannot he's a psychopath he's like he he's got it he's got the world on a string oh my god so um he hires an accomplice the reason he won is because he hired an accomplice to disrupt a political debate with

his opponent so he wins like he basically fucked with his opponent and then won Then he Once he's in office embezzles From the town Jesus dude This guy's living his life You know what it is I feel like And this does remind me of being on speed It's that thing of when you're in the moment You're like fuck it yes or fuck it

Like you just decide to grasp it while you can Yeah I'm gonna do all of the crazies Do it all Just pretend like nothing's gonna happen in an hour or a day just go for it okay okay in 1927 he marries a woman named georgette la bla oh it's not like he said blah blah blah blah blah blah oh no georgette um and they have a son named gearheart sorry Georgette Blabla. Je t'en commande. Oh no, Georgette.

And they have a son named Gearheart. Sorry. Okay. Local authorities receive numerous complaints about his theft and shady financial dealings, as he's the mayor. And he's eventually suspended in August of 1931 and resigns. The village council also resigned in sympathy. I don't know what a village council is, but it sounded like he had manipulated people in the town so much and gotten them convinced that, like, no, he's the best. That when they were like, you can't be the mayor anymore, they were like, we're going to.

Oh, my God. Yeah. We're going to. Oh, my God. Yeah. Five weeks later, on October 18th, he's elected as a counselor for the Yon District. Y-O-N-N-E. It's like Yvonne with no V.

Unless something happened. Unless there was a V. Unless it is Yvonne. Maybe the V dropped off the page when I wasn't paying attention. Yvonne France. She wears so much perfume. In 1932, he's accused of stealing electric power from the village near that's quaint not quaint he's like looking some shit up yeah he's like what it's just for my rv um but he'd moved it by the time they figured that out they were like you're

off the council and he had already moved to Paris, so it didn't matter. And while he's there, he sets up a new practice. And he makes up all these credentials. And all these people are like, oh, my God, you heard of this guy? He's the new doctor in town. You can't Google it. Exactly right. You can't LinkedIn him.

It's all word of mouth. He probably got the one influential person, made him love him. Gave him a Coke pills. That's right. But while outwardly charming and popular with most of his patients, he secretly enrolled them for state medical assistance, thereby ensuring that he was paid twice for each treatment. So he's like a Medicare scammer from Jump, the original.

And he favored addictive narcotics In his prescription So he was just giving people fucked up shit When one pharmacist complained Of the near fatal dose that he prescribed For a child His reply was what difference does it make to you Because I don't want children to be dead

Isn't it better to do away With this kid who's not doing Anything in the world but pestering its mother Holy shit So not a lot of compassion want children to be dead isn't it better to do away with this kid who's not doing anything in the world but pestering its mother so not a lot of compassion i mean it doesn't feel like that's his angle or filter on life if this kid who's not doing anything he just kind of sick just needs a little bit of help from a doctor and he's but what do kids do i mean i guess back then they worked in the coal mines and shit they were like oh i'd love some speed yeah thank you thank you but the mother has to intervene okay um and then in 1936 he's appointed the medicine d'etat civil with authority

so he can now write death certificates they just just keep going, you're really fucked up. Here's a little bit more responsibility. Can you take over this project? We just want to help you kill people a little more. Yeah. So, and that same year, he's institutionalized for kleptomania. What the fuck?

Uh-huh. So after the, so then World War II breaks out. Okay. All right. You mean World War K. J-K. World War K. so after the so then world war ii breaks out okay all right and you mean world war k jk world war one k um roman numerals we've gone into roman numerals of the world wars so france falls and uh he's of course now he's just taking advantage he's doing he's giving

people weird fake certificates saying people are sick when they're not to get out of shit. And he's like basically running kind of a black market-y situation. And he's convicted in 1942 of over-prescribing narcotics. But when he's going to go to court and there's two addicts that were going to testify against him, the cops got them to flip him they disappeared so uh he would end up just being fined i bet they're in the addict 24 they're in the addict's addict yes uh so he's fined 2400 francs and they're just like great please don't do it anymore oops this guy's disappeared so you're off the hook yeah uh he brags to anyone who listened that he's developing secret weapons that can kill germans without leaving forensic evidence um that he's having high level meetings

with allied commanders that he's fighting for this resistance group and that resistance group all over town um he's talking telling stories about that he's planting booby traps around paris all this shit booby traps uh he even says that he works planting booby traps around Paris, all this shit. Booby traps. He even says that he worked with a group of anti-fascist Spaniards. Turns out that group never existed. Oh, my God. Nor did many of the things that he talked about. But the thing that he stumbled upon that made him the most money and started the reason he eventually became famous is he started his own false escape route out of uh occupied france explain that to me called fight fly talk so basically the germans

invade paris and they take over and then they start saying you you jews can only live in this area and you can only go to the up get on the train so of course everyone's trying to get out of france and he's like i can get you out all you need is 25 000 francs come to my house he's one of those let's do this thing yeah so uh his code name is dr eugene i don't i think he made that up that's not really cunning it's not cool sounding um So all it took was if you had the money. And he basically said he could arrange safe passage to Argentina or somewhere else in South America through Portugal. So he got people to come to his office or this apartment. And he told them that the Argentinian officials needed them to be inoculated,

so that he had to give them a shot. No. And then he gave them a shot that was cyanide, killed them, took all of their belongings and their money, and disposed of their bodies. Oh, no. And all the people that heard about him

and went to him in secret to get out of France were never seen again. So at first he dumped the bodies in the Seine, but he later destroyed them by submerging them in quick line or burning them in this basement. So in 1941, he buys a house at 21 Rue Le Seur. And what he fails to do is again keep a low profile so the gestapo finds out that there's this dude dr eugene that's getting jews and uh resistance fighters and all these people whoever has 25 000 out of france franks um so they send an like a spy named robert judkin um oh sorry an agent a gestapo agent named robert judkin makes a for a for a prisoner named yvonne dreyfus says you have to go be a spy go contact this guy say you're trying to get out of Germany. He disappears. Oh, no.

So then now the Nazis are onto him. Oh, shit. So then. Okay, so on March 6, 1944, this is just get to the good part, because this is fucking crazy. And this is where I stumbled upon a documentary about this. And this is where the documentary starts. And it was amazing. I watched like a third of it. It incredible I thought I hit record I had to go leave to do something else came back didn't record it can't find it can't find it on you I can't find it

anywhere yeah of course not but it started here and the way they told it was so good that I was like this is the best story so March 6, there's smoke coming from the chimney, the chimney of that house. And then it smells so bad and it's burning and burning and burning. So the neighbors complain. And five days later, they in a group go to the police and they're just like, someone's got to do something about the smell coming out of this house and

the smoke coming out of this house. So when they all go down to the front door on march 11th they find a note on the door that says um i'll be back in a month uh so um they find out that he also lives in that other house he has two houses um so the police call that house it's two miles away they call that house um and the pitua answers the phone and says have you gone inside yet and the police are like no and he goes okay don't do anything i'll be there in 15 minutes and they're like okay and then he never shows up so half an hour later it's now fully engulfed fire and they have to call the fire department

so that the other buildings nearby don't burn down and when the fire department breaks into the second story window they come upon a scene that's just bodies and body parts everywhere they look um so then patois arrives and he when the police are like what the fuck is going on in your house he's like i'm a member of the french resistance and i've been luring germans and nazis to that apartment and killing them and of course everyone all the french people were like great this is perfect i hate those guys yeah don't worry about this and so uh they didn't arrest him because everyone was like well he's part of the resistance let's keep it up yeah and or talk about it but then they search the garage and that's when they find a pit filled with quicklime with human

remains still in it um then on the staircase there's a canvas sack with human remains inside and enough body parts for at least 10 complete bodies what the fuck 10 um and then the basement is had sinks that were large enough for draining corpses of their blood and there's a soundproof octagonal chamber with wall mounted shackles and a people in the center of the door oh my god what a creep yeah so they're not this isn't just like trick a spy into coming to your basement and kill them. There's something else going on. Um, and so, but they don't know if he truly is a member of the resistance or if he's a German, um, like being like a double agent or whatever. And so as the, the, um, uh, veteran Paris police commissioner, George Victor Marceau, I'm going to stop doing that. I'm sorry sorry he runs the

investigation um and while he's they're investigating this crime scene it's 1 30 in the morning they get a telegram from police paris police headquarters from the germans that the occupying i mean that i they keep saying germans in this murderpedia there's like you know seven articles on murderpedia they keep saying germans but i think germans in occupied murderpedia there's like you know seven articles on murderpedia they keep saying germans but i think germans in occupied france were nazis i don't right i would assume so yeah i would think so let me know when i'm wrong um america so they get it they get a telegram from the nazis saying uh quote order from german authorities arrest patois dangerous lunatic so then they're like okay he's not a german yeah um so in his other apartment they find it abandoned but they find large amounts

of chloroform digitalis and other poisons in addition to large amounts of um unusual medical remedies um so uh they find a man um who had gone to him to patois to escape but had ended up changing his mind and he said patois had offered him passage to south america for 25 000 so uh then while they're going through that basement with all the body parts they find the remains of the two drug addicts that were going to testify against him in that narcotics case and now they know there's it's the proof that those witnesses were murdered and that this guy was not uh being a noble frenchman that was trying to fight the resistance uh then they get his brother maurice and maurice immediately cracks

and is like yep we delivered quick climb to this apartment um we also uh his wife georgette was arrested um on suspicion of aiding him and his accomplices nezodette porchon and Albert and Simon Newhausen confess that they helped remove up to 40 suitcases from the house. Why does anyone need 40 suitcases? Is what they should have asked. If you have 50 bodies, you're gonna need at least 40 suitcases.

So, then the investigation comes to a halt because the invasion of Normandy happens happens so everyone's like sorry about this insane like multiple murderer we've got to go yeah so for seven months patois hides with his friends he grows a beard changes his appearance he has all these different aliases he has friends well i mean but he told the friends that he was fighting for the french resistance i believe it yeah so they were like yeah hide him here and you know it was that that

whole story the paris police rose up against and and the and the citizens um and the resistant rose up against the german troops in paris the nazis occupying france um that's when patois changes his name to Henri Valery, and he joins the French forces of the interior, becomes a captain in charge of counter espionage and prisoner interrogations, and basically is in the mix with the resistance for real. Shit. Yeah.

So then somewhere in that time, his defense lawyer for that narcotics trial that he got off on gets that lawyer gets a letter from Patois saying that there was an article in a newspaper called Resistance that was all about Patois and what he did. And so he took the time to send his lawyer, his old lawyer, a letter saying, look, that article is all lies. So now the police know he's still in France. Yeah. So there's a manhunt across France to find him or across Paris, I should say. But he ends up participating in the manhunt for himself. Are you fucking kidding me?

As Henri Valery. Oh, my God. Which is fucking rad. Yeah. Yeah. So he's recognized finally at the Paris Metro station on October 31st and he's arrested. Among his possessions were a pistol, he had

over 30,000 francs on him and 50 sets of identity documents, which were a lot of them probably victims. How many suitcases did he have he was like those families at lax they're just stacking them up like where are you going and what are you fucking bringing you're a bad packer you can buy anything anywhere there's a cvs on the remotest island yeah what are you doing yeah yes uh okay he put he's put on death row um he says he's innocent and he's a great

fighter for the resistance and he also says that he found the pile of bodies at that apartment in february of 1944 he assumed that they were all collaborators um uh that the members of his network had killed so he was just like well, just leave him there then. That's only right. That's not my problem. Well, the police look into all his stories about his time with the resistance and all the freedom fighting that he did, found out he had no friends in any of the major resistance groups.

There was no proof of any of the exploits that he claimed, like booby trapping all of Paris. And most of the groups that he named never existed in the first place. So the anti-fascist Spaniards he was talking about all made up. So they eventually charge him with 27 murders for profit. And he he basically took these people for an estimated 200 million francs. Holy shit. So he goes on trial march 19th 1946 he's facing 135 criminal charges altogether um and his lawyer renee florua

i'm trying to bug myself is up against a prosecution team that's the state prosecutors plus 12 civil lawyers all hired by the relatives of the victims that are just like, go fucking get him. Um, and he, he basically tried to say in court that the victims were collaborators or double agents,

like they deserve to die. Um, and, or that they were living in South America under new names and that they're all fools or whatever. Um, he did admit to killing 19 of the 27 victims in his house, but he claimed they were Germans and collaborators.

His lawyer attempted to make him look like a resistance hero, but nobody, the judge, the jury, nobody bought it. He's so he ended up being convicted of 26 counts of murder, sentenced to death. And on May 25th, after a stay of a few days because there was a problem with the mechanism in the guillotine,

he was beheaded. That's our guy, Marcel Patois. Bonjour. I want to see a photo of him. Wow, that was great. Thank you. Fuck him. Oh, we're back from a little break, and when I was peeing, to see a photo of him wow that was great thank you fuck him oh we're back from a little break and when i was peeing i looked it up and the instagram

with the melting nail lipstick is called watch it melt sweet so that's like the whole account yes yeah that's pretty great okay so we talked about this recently. This is the story of the murder of Peggy Hetrick. Remember her? Let's you will. Okay. On the morning of February 11th, 1987, a bicyclist is investigates what he thinks is a mannequin laying in the field in Fort Collins, Colorado. What it actually is is the body of 37-year-old Peggy Hetrick. And she's dead. Her purse is still slung around her shoulder.

Belongings are inside. There's a half-smoked cigarette in a pool of blood nearby. There's a trail of blood 100 feet from her body to the small pool on the curb. Her bra, blouse, and black coat have been pushed up above her breasts and her underwear and jeans are pulled down to her knees i remember you know this

conversation now yes yes yes wow okay yeah at the scene investigators collect two hairs they're not her hair and 13 fingerprints from her purse that aren't hers and they um they also uh okay so they they theorized that peggy's killer they think that they stabbed her as she was walking along the road right by where she worked next to the field you know right um because she had been killed with one stab wound and then picked her up and perhaps by the wrists and dragged her into the field that's what they think happened um they also there was also 28 footprints going around and they poured they took photos of all of them but they only plastered uh eight of them so according to the coroner she died from a single stab wound in the upper left back wasn't that crazy like one stab wound and she like died pretty quickly from it.

Yeah. It's almost like he knew where to stab you, someone to kill them. She likely died early in the morning. Her body had been sexually mutilated. Here we go. There's a precise removal of her nipple and areola, as well as a female circumcision, including what one doctor described as a partial vulvectomy. Oh, no.

Yeah. A procedure that requires high skill and quality surgical equipment to perform. So the knife she was stabbed with is not the same tool that was used to sexually mutilate her. Jesus Christ. I know. God, I feel like I'm numb to this shit now a little bit. Well, it seems to happen a lot.

Yeah. I mean, it's not, I think that's part of it. It happens all the time. And people pretend like it's some kind of distant, creepy, crazy thing. And it's like, no, pretty much happens all the time. All the time. Yeah. It's horrifying.

Yeah. So there's neat cuts. It's all like that blah blah okay so let's talk about peggy she's a small woman about 115 pounds flaming red hair really pretty woman she worked at a department store and described by friends as fun loving artistic she was kind of an annie hall type uh and she was working working on a novel in her free time about diamond smugglers. It was fiction. Sounds fucking fun. I wish I could read that.

So after leaving work at around 9 p.m. the night before, February 10th, 1987, she is locked out of her apartment because her friend who she is letting stay there fell the fuck asleep and she couldn't wake her up. And so she goes to a couple local bars um and she uh by about 12 30 she's at the prime minister pub and grill and she runs into her sometimes boyfriend matt zollner he's a local car salesman he's there with another woman but they hug and kiss and talk he He offers her a ride home, but she ends up leaving by herself at 1.15 in the morning. So six hours and less than 500 yards later, her body is found. Wow.

Yeah. So then the investigators are canvassing the area. There's some houses nearby. There's some trailers. They're talking to people, seeing if they saw anything, especially the people whose windows face the field. And they talk to the father of a 15-year-old high school student named Timothy Masters. And the father says that he watched his son leave for school that morning and deviate from his usual path across the field and stop at something and then keep walking to his normal uh his normal

route so they live in a mobile home about 100 feet from where Peggy's body had been found so Tim Timothy's pulled out of class and the uh Lieutenant Jim Roderick he's running the show he's like in charge of the investigation they interrogate 15 year old Timothy for 10 hours. He's alone. He said that the reason he didn't call the police, he had seen the body that morning, but he thought it was a mannequin. He thought and then later he was like, that was weird. There's something wrong with someone playing a prank on me. Like he didn't get it. Yeah, you know, it was just 1515. Can you and it's like, that's the thing of like, your brain doesn't want it to you know it was just 15 15 can you and it's like that's the thing of like your brain doesn't want it to be a mannequin so like or to be a body so but throughout the day

it feels it seems like he was kind of figuring out what was going on in his mind and if you came upon a dead body of a mutilated woman not just a stabbed woman but like a terribly mutilated woman i think that would put you into a kind of trauma state. Yeah. Shock mode. Yeah. Where you would, and also this wasn't the time of cell phones. This was a while ago. Yeah. So he would have to keep walking to school to tell anybody. Yeah. And then maybe by the time he got there, he was like, couldn't deal with, like, couldn't talk about it. And I saw a photo of the crime scene it she kind of does look like a mannequin like she's so pale her red hair you know it's just like and the guy the you know

the adult who ended up calling the police the bicyclist thought it was a mannequin too and he's an adult so you know it's not out of the realm of possibility um but uh he says he's innocent as fuck. They administer a lie detector test. Results are inconclusive, of course. But he is on the top of the suspect list because he just because he didn't tell police about the body. Right. So they search his home. They search the sinks for blood. They search the school locker.

They search his clothes to see if there's blood on anything. And instead they find and confiscate 2200 pages of writing and violent artwork that Timothy had in his bedroom that he saved. He was kind of like a meticulous saver and saved all of his journals and shit. And they, let's see, in his bedroom backpack and school locker, and he has a knife collection and pornography. And this is the 80s and that's not okay. Um, yeah. So there's no trace of Peggy's blood or hair at all anywhere, including on his clothes

and the knife collection. But police are like convinced it's him. And these drawings, I'm sure you've seen them they're like 15 year old metalhead a 1987 boy drawings and they're fucked up for sure yes they're definitely fucked up yes i've seen like there's a some kind of a 2020 type of thing yeah i'll show you all of them and but it's also that thing where so is like metal art is fucked up it's like eddie from the iron maiden album covers it's also that thing where so is like metal art is fucked up. It's like Eddie from the Iron Maiden album covers. It's one of the scary, I remember seeing that album cover for the first time at the record

store and shitting a brick. It was like, it's a skeleton with long white hair that's like long fingernails coming at you. It was part of that part of it. You're supposed to be like, it's fucked up and scary. And, you know know i'm brave and he's just like you know he's like this kind of loner skinny kid like long messy hair uh not a lot of friends his mom had died four years earlier i lived in a trailer with his dad so he sounded

like he was kind of a drifter type of kid probably got bullied and beaten have getting the shit beaten out of her constantly right uh so the shit he was drawing you know skeletons with knives and like and a lot of like shit against women too like it's not pretty right for sure but um it would just be interesting if they like searched all the lockers and pulled out all the boy art right finding it's not there's not a draw me like when you're a french lady situation happening in high school yeah when you're your most like fucked up and unhappy and uncomfortable totally yeah so okay so acquaintance of peggy said that she uh that peggy had recently been concerned over someone she had been dating um they ruled out

her ex her sometimes boyfriend that she had seen dating. Um, they ruled out her ex, her sometimes boyfriend that she had seen the night before because a woman said that, you know, she had gone home with him. Um, but this dude, Broderick, Jim Broderick, the fucking lieutenant is laser focused on, he is like convinced, even though there's a lot of other investigators that are like, well, we don't, they don't think it's him, but he is like, doesn't really look into other anyone else. Um, so Timothy masters, they,

but they don't have enough to arrest him. So he grows up, he joins the Navy, sails around the world, becomes an aircraft mechanic. He never has any discipline or problems or violent offenses. He's honorably discharged from the Navy. Okay.

Then the fast forward to 1996, um, this detective, Jim Broderick asks a forensic psychologist, honorably discharged from the Navy. Okay, then fast forward to 1996. This detective, Jim Broderick, asks a forensic psychologist in San Diego named Reed Malloy to study Timothy Master's, you know, 15-year-old fucked up artwork. Yeah. And he kind of had a weird reputation, this guy Reed Malloy.

He is an expert witness on sexual homicides. He thinks that you can read a person's personality into this artwork, which is kind of debated in the field. And he even disclosed that he was himself had sexually sadistic fantasies. Uh-oh. So this guy's

problematic. Hold on a second. Yeah, that's not good. No. Well, but maybe he was saying that like it's human that that kind of goes against what his thing is because it's like well basically are you is the argument that everybody has them or like it's self-expression because then you can't like focus in and be like this that's like you wouldn't understand it unless you had it too yes yeah but also it's art art self-expression is you know that's what art is for right and you really need to do it especially when you don't think anyone else is going to see it yes it's private and you're like you're trying to work

some shit out yeah well i don't know anyway. No, it's fucked up. Okay. So, this dude, Reed Malloy, analyzes the writing and artwork extensively and concludes, without ever having spoken to him, to Timothy Masters, says that he, that some of the drawings represented Masters reliving the crime. So, he was like, see this drawing where it looks kind of like they're dragging a body? That's him reliving the crime so he was like see this drawing where it looks kind of like they're dragging a body that's him reliving the crime um and then there's this one there's like it's this weird triangle with a stab wound in it and it looks it looks like a stab wound for sure but this dude is like oh it's a vagina and he's cutting into it and it matches perfectly with the actual crime of Peggy's vagina getting mutilated.

So they think that he went to school, then went home and immediately started scribbling in tons and tons of notebooks. No, they think some of the drawings from, are from after the murder before they got the notebooks, but most of them were before, but these ones like fantasy.

Right. Okay. Right. So the strangle one was from before, but this other one was from after. notebooks but most of them were before but these ones like there's like fantasy right okay right so this triangle one was from before but this other one was from after it doesn't make sense okay and it's funny too because i watched i watched the cold case episode about this and it's before uh so so this dude is like it's totally him he's the killer um and in august 1998 based on this jim broderick goes to california and arrests 27 year old jim masters for the murder murder of peggy hetrick based solely on this

evidence and circumstantial evidence and 12 years later yeah jesus yeah over a thousand pages of timothy masters violent artwork are admitted into evidence, including the vagina drawing. And so at the end of the trial, they held up like a close up photo of Peggy's wounds on her vagina next to a blown up photo of this triangle drawing and said it's chilling. They're the same thing. And even though it's just so creepy. And then they also show it's the thing of like i think in some cases i mean i've heard about you can't show that many horrifying photos of the body at the trial because it brings an emotional response to the jury so instead of you know thinking about the facts or they're seeing these photos and you know so they they

had like photo after photo of what happened to her right at this so then they're just like they it doesn't matter if it's him or not they just want this right they want to get this like solved and out of their mind or it's almost like and I think this happened too or it was like some people think where it was like they weren't sure he did it but they saw this stuff over and over again and they were like well what if it is and we we know what happened we can't let him go right um so so this though some jurors had doubts about his guilt his drawings and writings were cited by the jury members as compelling evidence against him and um he is um he is found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. Okay. In 2004, cuts to 2004, that's 99, 2004,

Timothy Masters mounts an appeal on the grounds of ineffective counsel, and he gets a new defense team, they begin investigating the case, and they discover that evidence, including the hair that was found on hetrick that wasn't his that wasn't timothy's hair and photographs of the fingerprints found in her purse were all missing and they had never been turned over to the defense or no no they're missing now yes so during the 2000 uh and so they they alleged the prosecutors withheld evidence about links to another case that happened in the fort collins about Dr. Richard Hammond, who was potentially a suspect. Let's fucking talk about Dr. Richard Hammond.

Everyone's favorite. So let's go back to 1995, seven years after the murder of Peggy. Dr. Richard Hammond is an eye surgeon in the Fort Collins area. He's arrested for secretly filming women's genitalia. I copied and pasted that, obviously. Including his patients and in his own home

through fake ventilation grates in his downstairs bathroom. So he put fucking video in the toilet and they said video after video, there were these highly calibrated shots zooming into the vaginal area of women in his toilet. They were extreme close-ups and they were almost microscopic. Investigators also found that Hammond kept thousands of dollars worth of pornography

hidden in a locked office and a storage shed in town, indicating an obsession with female genitalia. He also had a secret bank account, secret apartment, and a secret identity. And as a surgeon, he, of course, had the skills and equipment to perform the precision mutilation that was found on her body. So, it could have been an exacto knife or a razor blade. And in 1987, Hammond's bedroom window overlooked the location of where Peggy Hetrick's body was discovered. And he was home the morning after the murder, despite his usually scheduled surgeries on that day of the week. So that was out of character for him. Then, but no follow-up investigation was ever done after that, because he committed suicide several days after his arrest.

And Jim Broderick didn't look into it didn't look at a connection maybe you know he maybe peggy had been a client or a patient of his who knows and another uh weird twist two weeks after peggy's murder a woman who was red-haired and kind of looked like peggy who worked at the prime minister bar where peggy had last been seen. She's out front of the bar selling tickets. And here's someone behind her. And a man with, quote, a bodybuilder physique was glaring at her. He pulled an icicle from behind his back and made several stabbing motions in the air. What? And she said he had a bodybuilder physique.

Dr. Hammond was a bodybuilder. Sorry, he, an icicle from where i don't know i guess the roof jesus i know yeah so it was argued that it couldn't actually have been done the mutilation because it was so precise in the middle of a field in the dark like that so it actually maybe happened somewhere else um and then there was no way a 15 year old could perform that cert that surgical procedure. Okay. You'd think that that would be.

Yeah. Even though you're saying that the lead detective was like on, you know, only, which I know that happens. But there's those kinds of things where it's like a logic problem. Yeah. A lot of it. Yes. This is a person that's like doing violent art and doing upsettingly violent art where there's clearly a problem that has not been addressed in any way. Yeah.

But then you're just adding all this, like 15 is like, he can't drive yet. And he's the skinny little kid. So like carrying a person's body on his own doesn't make any sense. There's no blood evidence anywhere on him it's like the the circumstantial evidence does not stand up to the fucking evidence that it's not him except for and again it's what you're saying is the effect of like pictures on people yeah and what you can read into pictures and what pictures make you feel yeah and how the power of that and then attributing what that power is

and saying, I know what you meant when you drew this. It makes sense in your head. Yeah. So I watched the Cold Case Files episode. So his case is going to get overturned, but before they make the Cold Case episode as if when he gets sent to jail, he did it, the end, period.

Cold Case over. So the Cold Case isn't up to date. You don't mean Cold Case, the TV show with the blonde actress cold case files oh okay okay sorry i wasn't no i'm glad you said that i'm like i based this all off of cold case files cold case um so they're so they actually the um the prosecutors are interviewed in this because they're like yeah look what we what we did. We solved it. And and the one woman who is the prosecutor was like, I saw the drawings and I thought I thought, you know, it's like I got a chill and I knew he did it. Yeah. It's that shit.

Yes. Of course. Being able to watch that from a place of knowing he did it is fucking creepy because it's like it's totally in her gut. She thinks he did it based on those looking at those photos. Based on surface things. Yeah. And that's which is how so much crime. Yeah. Gets prosecuted or ignored. Yeah.

Because then if you're also a clean cut rich guy, then you're not. You're not. It's not considered. Totally. Because that's beyond the imagination. Yeah. Because we all know who looks right. Right.

And we know who's responsible for things in society and then who's who does bad things and that's you need to keep it that simple to not freak out every day this is bad this is good and you're a little world that makes total sense and it's not like that nuance is a man if anything else if nothing else i mean let this podcast be the place where we say psychopaths are real good at dressing up like the good guy. That's the whole idea. Yeah. And sociopaths.

You're not going to see crazy on the surface and someone who's really fucking good at it and smart. Shit. Okay. So. Oh, and also her body appeared really clean. And an expert later told the legal team that a sponge line appeared to run down the side of her body like she had been sponged off oh because there's like no blood on her body even though she'd been stabbed in the back and murdered with that stab yeah i think there was blood on her you know in the back but no blood on the front of her body no blood on her genitals yeah wow so well then it would have had

to have been cleaned up yeah so they say that her body must have been washed. And they also tried to drag a woman the same size as Peggy through the field. And it just can't be done with one person the size of Timothy. The size of a freshman in high school. Or sophomore. Yeah. But he's a skinny little kid. Okay.

Okay. more yeah but he's a skinny little kid okay um okay so the arrest so the arrest of dr hammond and his subsequent suicide isn't is information that's withheld from the dude who was reading um who thinks he could fucking tell by the drawings dr malloy right so he was never told about any of the circumstances around their case right um so that's withheld from him and other experts and the fbi was not informed of this case either to reconsider their profiling of masters from 1987 so they were never told that there could be another suspect and so this dr malloy's fucking pissed at them for that and he's like i wouldn't have testified against i wouldn't have testified for you guys if i'd known this so in january 2008 advanced dna testing is done in europe on the clothes of peggy and scientists found dna on the cuffs of her blouse and on the waistband of her

underwear that didn't match timothy masters and some of the genetic material all of it left by skin cells so it's the new touch DNA craziness, is matched to Peggy's long-time on-again, off-again boyfriend, the dude she was at, saw at the bar. But she was hugging and kissing him. Yeah. So it might have been, but it just would have made it that he's

the focus, not Timothy. Of course. But he has, it doesn't sound like a really tight alibi, but he has an alibi. Okay. So, on January 22nd, 2008, a Colorado judge vacates Timothy Master's conviction and orders him released immediately. And in June 2011, he says he's no longer a suspect in the murder and he's completely exonerated. And how old is he now?

I don't know how old he is, but he spent 10 years in jail. So, he was arrested when he was 27. So, he's completely exonerated and how old is he now i don't know how old he is but he spent 10 years in jail so he was arrested when he was 27 so he's you know almost 10 years like nine and a half years in jail i know so um the prosecutors are disciplined in the case and um fucking lieutenant jim broderick is like getting some crazy he's indicted on eight counts of felony first degree perjury for material false statements he made uh with the arrest and conviction but the fucking three-year statute of limitations for perjury is gone so even though this kid spent 10 fucking years and you can't get that back. His statute of limitations. I hate statute of limitations. Okay.

But then he's indicted again. They're like, no, dude. Nine counts this time. But those charges are also dismissed. But he resigns. Yeah. I would hope. Yeah.

So the county settles with Timothy Masters for initially, he basically gets almost $10 million. Holy shit. A million dollars a year for going to jail. Yeah. Fuck. Take it or leave it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. In your voice, it almost sounded like that's easy.

Well, I think that was passing through my head. I mean, obviously, no fucking way. Of course not. It's living hell. Of course not. So I don't know anyone that would. No, there's nobody. Right.

I mean, unless people have been like, no, I like my cousins are all on the inside and I'll be fine. If you had some kind of guarantee of protection, you were the head of some jail gang or some shit like that. Or like, you know, those, all those stories of like the, um, when like the, the mafia guys go to jail and they have like their own, you know, they have their own lazy boy chair and their shit i don't even have a lazy boy chair and i'm not in jail i must be thinking of like oh goodfellas or whatever where they're like making making pasta and stuff like that i mean i bet it's like that for some people i bet

it is but i bet it's a real it really drops off if you don't have that yeah on year three you're like oh this might have been a mistake. I could have maybe made money. Yeah. The lottery. Yeah. Which is also why we all have to remember there's a lot of things going on in the world. So this isn't, this is nobody's priority right now.

But for-profit jails is the most evil concept and they have to be, they have to be gotten rid of. Like that idea is what's going to drive us into a dystopian future the idea that they would make money of keeping people in jail which is already hellish for most people and already there are so many people in jail that like this guy how many stories of this of black was, yeah. And you're completely right about fucking, just the basic conflict of interest that you make money, the more people are in jail. The more people are in jail.

It's so wrong. You can't get past that. There's no argument past that. I actually won a fight with my uncle at dinner one time because we started talking about it. He's like, no, I think. And then I was just like this and this. And we're just like, no, I think. And then I was just like this and this, and we're just like,

you simply can't, it's already happened in a lot of cases, you know, where obviously where people are like, it's either people are on the take or they know that, you know, they get certain cases through where it's like, don't even listen. They don't have right representation or whatever.

And boom, boom, boom. It's just a nightmare. If you ever get a chance to vote against for just, just educate yourself on that yeah uh because god please god no it's a nightmare it doesn't make any sense oh this whole world yeah some fucking mess anyway um yeah so he got all that money but we still

don't know who killed peggy hetrick it's a's a cold case. Mm-hmm. And they said they're looking into it, but I haven't been able to find any updated articles, any fucking information. I think when you and I talked about this, we also talked about comparing it to the movie The River's Edge, which is a movie from the late 80s, I believe. Yeah, I think so. And it's one of the most disturbing. When I saw it, I was like a teenager, and it was so disturbing. disturbing when i saw it i was like a teenager and it was so disturbing um but it was kind that was like this that kind of era where it was like teens today are becoming very disaffected and no

one cares and there's an apathy and it's uh not that that movie is trying to say that specifically but it was almost like this that was a cultural thing yeah in that uh tipper gore era of like your music is bad and your rap music and all this kind of people are actually Satanists. These teenagers. Yeah. The satanic panic thing. And so instead of these days where we're slowly learning that it's like a

trauma response, whereas like it's something like that happens to you as a child. Yeah. Uh, you would never know how to deal with it and you could completely be in shock literal physical shock for days on top of the fact that boys are taught especially if he was being raised only by his father you're not allowed to have feelings he couldn't go to school and start crying yeah he couldn't you know what i mean like he's supposed to either man up uh you know like

the his choices were so limited in dealing with that problem and from what i could see when he's talking about why he didn't call the police and what he thought it was a mannequin is that throughout the morning he he is slowly starting to realize what it what what it was it's like he needs to get there so maybe he would have called the police later in the day yeah once he it kind of dawned on him because he was like contemplating he's like i got on the bus and i was like is someone playing a trick on me that looked like a man is someone trying to prank me like he didn't understand what it was and i think that that's i think your yeah your brain won't say there's a dead body it says there's a mannequin which is why we're always like it's not a mannequin it's

because we can't fucking even deal with the fact that something might be a dead body your brain is our immediate like mannequin yes not real to explain this away so that that so that this panic doesn't rise in me and make all of my systems go berserk right for sure and also then once some some that piece of information does go it like like if he did see her genitals yeah that would have he that would have traumatized him so terribly totally it doesn't matter what fucking some kid draws in a notebook yeah the real thing is totally different yeah and if you listen to heavy metal and you're trying to be a tough guy that's one thing or like if you're expressing your rage for whatever reason that's one thing yeah but seeing it in real life must have been horrifying for this kid.

Right. And the saddest part is that this whole charade and this whole insane, you know, laser focus on this kid and these 30 fucking years of this case. And there's nobody held responsible for Peggy's murder. And it's almost it's just not the focus anymore of the of the case right so if that hadn't been the case then maybe her murder would have been solved well yeah that's the the problem with the ego coming into it yeah but yeah I think that's just I think think like they're, they're learning better and better and faster and faster as these things come up where it's like, well, it used to be for

years and hundreds of years, it was all theory and it was whoever could kind of like, you know, boss the situation the best they could and make everybody feel safe again. Yeah. Cause that's a lot of it too. And then it's just like, but now it's like, here's a proof that didn't happen. Here's the proof that, you know, it's not that way. And everyone has to adapt. And like, you know, it's same thing of cops not not cooperating across county lines, or it's like, okay, so you'd prefer to go unsolved than to have help.

Well, it's like, and everyone did that, including the prosecutors. And one of one of the women, female prosecutors said that she was embarrassed that she hadn't, didn't have more info or something like that. It's just, yeah, you can't, you can't do that. And I think this is one of those cases of like that they use as an example of why you can't, you can't make the evidence fit your suspect. It has to be the other way around. yeah exactly right which sorry because i know a lot of people like went the other direction after a while but that's the steven everything there's no fucking evidence that any of the stuff that brendan dassey was like led to say yeah they couldn't find a drop of fucking blood in that In his house Where the one witness

Who got him convicted Said it happened It didn't happen that way Now it could have happened a different way Or something else could have happened that nobody's been Like talked about But that one thing didn't happen that convicted him That's what's fucked up

Totally It's all fucked Is this our 99th episode is it 98 oh thank god so we have two weeks to find a fucking person to have on the show or just think of a theme yeah let's not add that onto the show i was gonna say you're like no we have to do something now i know i don't know why i thought of that what if we just don't do a hundredth episode And we just go right to 101 Yeah it's like the 13th floor

The 13th floor episode Wayside school episode What if we just didn't do a hundredth episode Whatever you want I don't give a shit I mean I've already bought your present But that's fine Did you buy me something

No You're excited I got the joy on your face now you have to get me something yes now we have to get each other something yeah okay shit i guess i'm part of that i don't even think about it god i should give me a land of lakes straight back i'm saving that nope do like fuck it's already been on social media it is a gift that's been given you have to get you also you have to one up landa lakes because landa lakes was a rando i i love you and i love this reference gift what if i get you another specific landa lakes tray you can't second tray me you can't

have one tray you have to have two i'm gonna go i'm gonna find that lady um from whatever from the florida city and get that lady buck some jewelry box back i'm gonna buy it for double the price i love it which is like nothing oh that's a good one damn it thirty dollars what am i gonna do um yeah we gotta this is fun this is uh we have now have two weeks to give a hundred, a hundredth episode gift. Okay. And it has to be, we, it would have to please a Martha Stewart. Okay. And it would have to please somebody else that would be on the other, I guess a Snoop Dogg.

Okay. That's the other end of that. Sure. Everyone has to. Okay. And please all that comes. It would have to please. Got it.

It would have to. Do we have to use every word these days? I don't know. Can we leave some out? Jesus, there's just too many. Can't I drop four words and change the meaning of the sentence I'm saying and have you follow along? What do you what made you happy this week? Do you know? I forgot it. Was it your

hangover? Ugh, not having a hangover. Well, I guess it didn't make me happy. It made me cry. But I really liked it. The thing I liked this week. You liked to cry? No. Can I tell you what I liked this week? That's what I want to hear. Okay. Yeah. This week, okay, my therapist

told me about a podcast that I need to listen to. And now I'm fucking obsessed with it. Oh, yes. That's right. Oh, my God. That's right. And it made me sit in my car and bawl and listen to the end of one of the episodes. It's called Where Should We Begin? And it's this therapist named Esther Perel. And she it's an anonymous couples therapy session that she records and you and kind of she talks you through it, too.

And it's like so beautiful and so well done and even if it's like a couple that you don't relate to it's these themes that make you kind of understand things more and i like did one like vince and i went to therapy this week i was like i heard this and i want to do this like can we try this this is what i want like yeah and it really it was really beautiful and so there's an episode that I fucking, the one I cried from is called, um, it's called trauma doesn't like to be touched. And it's just such a beautiful episode. I think everyone should listen to it. I want to let you that you sent that one to me, right? Yeah. You have to, I'm gonna listen to it, but I keep going. Do I feel like bawling right now? No, I don't. I don't actually. I'm going to

save it. Yeah. It's hard to be like, you're going? No, I don't. I don't actually. I'm going to save it. Yeah. It's hard to be like, you're going to cry your eyes out and be really sad and moved. Yeah. I, sometimes I like that. Yeah. But it has to like sneak. You know what's good?

That that's good for on a plane. I love to just do a weird cry next to somebody on a plane. Because something about that happens to me a lot when I travel, something about taking off and landing. I just start crying like i'll start thinking about like either i'm landing back into my life and it's this this and this or when i'm taking off i'm like whatever it's very transitional maybe and it gets me emotional and then i'll just sit there like slowly wiping tears while the person next to me is like um do you want pretz? The lady's offering pretzels Alright, what's yours?

Did I already tell you about going to Hamilton? Did I talk about it on the show already? You went to Hamilton? Bitch, I went to Hamilton When? My friend, this was like two weeks ago probably You didn't tell me Oh, that's right because

Okay My friend Stephanie i we've talked about a lot on this podcast but she emailed or texted me and was like would if i got hamilton tickets would you want to go and i was like i absolutely would love to i just would never do it on my own so we went pantages oh my, we were, I realized this is unfortunate. I realized as I was sitting there, I need one stronger glasses prescription because I can't see in the glasses that I have anymore far enough away,

which was a bummer. Cause I was like squinting like a lunatic the whole time, but it was so fucking good. Now, how dumb am I to be saying that out loud nine years after the fact but when things like that come out i'm always the one that's like i bet it's not yeah i know better i bet i have superior taste whatever which is a lame habit that i'm it's just leftover kurt cobain issues that i have from the 90s that i have to let go of but it really reminded me how much i love to be a fan i love to be a fan it makes me

feel so good and when you watch something that is better than the hype and there's no there's nothing that's more hyped than hamilton and it absolutely doesn't just live up to it it goes beyond it and there was a moment this is how people people this is the oldest thing i could be saying but there's a moment and one of the lines in the musical is immigrants get things done and there's so many people in the theater that have already seen it at least once just for that part they explode with cheers and then immediately stop because they know they don't want to block everybody's enjoyment of the rest of the song that's awesome and it that's awesome. And it made me burst into tears. It was like, immigrants get things done. It's like, and

then it just stops. And it was like, and I went, yeah, I am too. I'm like, I'm a generation away. I'm immigrants. That's me. It was the fucking coolest best thing, best lyrics, coolest music, best story, everything. I'm going.

Can I get to, is it hard to get tickets it's impossible to get tickets i'm not going but i would love it it just is so worth it and and you know and there are people who are like i think there are people who are trying to insinuate oh if it's in la it's not going to be as good of a cast right this or that well those people are high as kites because the people that i saw at the Pantages, I don't know. I'm sure Lin-Manuel Miranda was amazing in it. I wouldn't have replaced any of those people with anybody else. They were incredible.

And when people can sing in a theater that big. Oh, my God. I just. It's so much talent. I love it so much. They fill up the whole room. What an incredible skill. Yeah.

That I'll never have. I know. Oh, wait, we do that. Wait, what? We room. What an incredible skill. Yeah. That I'll never have. I know. Oh, wait, we do that. Wait, what? We do that.

We just don't sing. That's right. That's the difference. It's a big fucking difference. I'll tell you. You know what? You're right. Um,

so, you know, great. Just like groundbreaking revelation. Hamilton is good. Karen with the fucking update. Um, you guys are great thank you

stay sexy and don't get murdered bye dotty want cookie want cookie dotty wait a second that sounded a lot like oh i guess i'm getting another one i know Daddy? Daddy? Wait a second, that sounded a lot like Elvis. Oh, I guess I'm getting another one. I know.

I know my angel.