My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 99 - Shin Kick

Episode Date: December 14, 2017

Karen and Georgia cover the case of Jennifer Pan and the murder of Irene Garza. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business.

Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. Oh, yes. Do you hear the sounds of the podcast train? Of the ghost podcast train?

Oh, there hasn't been a ghost podcast train in 25 years. That voice has gone totally into a southern bell area where it doesn't belong. I love it there. I want it to stay there. It was supposed to be an old minor 49er. Yeah. But no, I've changed the scene. I don't belong. I love it there. I want it to stay there. It was supposed to be an old, uh, a minor 49er. Yeah. But no,

I've changed the scene. I don't care. I love it there. Great. Thank you for your support. Welcome to my favorite murder. Yes. We,

that's Georgia hard start. That's Karen Kilgariff. And we're here to talk to you about a couple of things called crimes and true truth. Yes. We love truth in this. We also enjoy talking about crimes. We love truthness. We also enjoy talking about crimes. We'll never lie to you. We'll not get things right. Yes, not intentionally. Right.

But we won't lie. But there will be times where we deeply mislead you and get you to say the wrong thing to your friends and co-workers in a braggy voice. But they'll believe you because of your tone. Right, and your delivery. what we're telling you is it's all about tone in in in incantation it's all about incantations and it's all about spells and it's about having short-term jobs you don't have to go back and see the same people after like two weeks because you've lied

to them so much god you meet one person in the whole in the eight jobs you've had as a temp that's like the best person you've met. Then you will go on to marry that person. Right. This is our guarantee to you. So keep hearing. And we don't lie to you. Look around the office right now. Is your eighth person your future spouse?

Right. Sitting near you. Pick them. You have 15 seconds. Kick them? Pick them. Kick them. I'd rather. Pick them. You have 15 seconds. Kick them? Pick them. Kick them. I'd rather you kick them.

Kicking them is a great way to start the flirting. If you take it from me, seven-year-old Karen Kilgariff, a good shin kick, there's no better way to say I love you. Karen has stuck with her flirting technique and she'll never let it go. And we like your tenacity. Thank you. I feel like it, like having a big butt, is going to come into fashion. I just have to wait it out. There was a time where I thought, no, kicking people in the shins would never come into fashion in terms of flirting.

But so many things have. Well, in this climate, in this fucking, in this rough climate of fucking, you ladies first doggy dog the future is female but there's also there's a parallel future of nazis and there's all these things me i'm biolic is fucking arguing about shit that doesn't make any sense it's like no kicking in the shin is going to be the only way we let anyone know you to break through to say hey you matter to me yeah and you have blossomed into a not fucking anti-feminist yeah asshole and so take and so prep yourself before you wreck your shins and this has been this oh this has been an ad for hello fresh this whole time anyways go to promo code murder can we do a really quick shout

out to the two ladies please do the two fucking so we we just finished our last weekend tour of 2017 yep um in st louis and kansas city it was a fucking amazing fun weekend yeah thank you guys thank you we meet a bunch of awesome people after the show at the meet and greet and everyone like every fourth person comes up in a shirt a homemade my favorite murder sure that's just funny and weird and shit that we don't remember saying or is like something they drew it's it's always funny oh there was two girls that had stay sexy don't get murdered in wingdings yes that I and I was like do people oh no it was yeah SSD GM wingding right and I was like does anyone is

anyone able to read wingdings off the dome and then know what that says and they were like not yet and then there were two other ladies and they had shirts that just said promo code murder. And I was just like, you fucking subtle as fuck. Badass bitches. We laughed so hard. Like it never even crossed our minds that that was like a funny thing. The wingdings also included a bomb.

Yeah. Because I think a murder must be bomb. Right? Well, there was a bomb at the end like the little like cartoon bomb but i thought those things only represented the letter yeah oh so it wouldn't be murder but but i just thought it was coincidental that a bomb would be in there because it was ss i think it was the d was a bomb i don't know something in there it doesn't matter it was still great it was the bomb it was great a great looking it was the bomb. It was great. A great looking. It was the bomb. Also someone in Kansas City, by the time it got back to us, we got so many nice presents

and thanks to you guys. We got tons of stuff backstage. There's a lot of people that were worried saying we gave you something and then they took it away from us. Because that's the shit you guys bring. The theater is like, you cannot bring that in here. You can't bring the severed head of Ted Bundy into our theater. Please don't. But it's actually a cake. Sorry, you can't. Yeah severed head of ted bundy into our theater please don't

but it's actually a cake sorry you can't yeah um so we got a whole table full it was like christmas backstage for us somebody made a plastic baggie filled with the best chocolate chip cookies i've ever had i think there was either rice krispies or corn flakes in them so they were really small and crispy whoever did that god bless you i ate maybe six of them just standing there talking we got a full cheesecake oh my god people went crazy for that cheesecake we got this a haunted scary clown the doll it's over there yeah so these these lovely women these two women brought i don't know where the fuck they must have found it like i think they said a secondhand shop yeah and they were like were like, somehow they saw it and were like, Karen and Georgia need this.

Which, like, what does that say about us? It was like a Raggedy Ann homemade clown doll from the 70s. Knitted. Knitted. That, like, clearly whatever child got it was terrified of it. Yeah. Because it didn't look like it had been touched. No.

Because one side of the clown's face, one side of the clown was a happy clown. And then you turned it over and we're going to post it. And it was the most terrifying clown sad face you've ever seen. Yes. With silver tears knitted onto the face. Steven, you're going to have to post it. Okay. It is so upsetting.

And also the best part was the way the girl, this was in St. Louis. Yeah. The way the girl walked up holding it. Or woman. Sorry, I always do that. She held it like she was also a ghost. Like she walked up really weird and stiff and kind of like really slow. Like she had been looking forward to giving this to us for two months.

And she was like, finally, it's here. Yes, it was so good. Everything about the presentation. She said to me, she goes, turn it over. Yeah. And then it was horror show. Yeah. So anyway, you guys will see it.

Steven? I was going to say Wingdings. The bomb is M. Oh. So M in murder. Yep. All right. Okay.

Perfect. So M just happens to be a bomb. Look at that. It's so perfect for us. Dude. Wingdings was made for us. Oh, my God. Wingdings? made for us oh my god wingdings wingdings is like my personal i didn't know i loved like because i've loved a lot of fonts

mostly times new roman but wingdings you know i only use georgia font i know but from here on out i'm doing my fucking bullet journal only in wingdings from now on goodbye oh it's so perfect um okay bye bye uh oh what do you have i was gonna say a couple things about my sweet adrena i because i was talking about it over the weekend with people at the live shows because i don't um i really care so much and i i know that there are people who like sped through reading it and there are people who responded of like i thought we were gonna do a well we told them who responded of like, I thought we were going to do a book club. Well, we told them we were doing a thing and then we were like, nope, goodbye. Yeah.

Which is like, if you're not, this is episode 99. If you don't know that by now. Yeah. Flake a roo. Except for I really do. It's just taking me forever to read it because I, this book, I'm, I'm attacking it on two fronts, which is I have the hard bound copy next to my bed, like an old widow. And then I eat out a box of chocolates as I read it.

And then I also have the audio book. So I was listening to it on the plane. And I just would like to read a couple. This makes me so happy. Oh, and also so many people have said you have to listen to Teen Creeps because they have this great episode on this. But I don't want to listen to that until i am done reading this book so it doesn't influence what i'm saying in any way sure if that makes sense okay so i will definitely do that because so many people have recommended it even our own steven they did an episode of uh what episode was it like well they've done my

cedar gina but i was just gonna say i've been on the podcast twice and it's been really fun lindsey and kelly are really sweet and they they i mean the fact that they read a book every week to do this podcast is incredible that what oh but it's it's what mostly ya yeah it's all like rl stein and oh and christopher pike yeah but still this shit's yeah still that's 200 pages yeah how do they do it read me a thing okay we have to write a book report They have to read a book They have to read a book And talk about it And report And report it

Okay So I'm now in the part Where she meets Now I don't have his name Written here We're old Boring old Audrina She

We're boring old Second best Nobody likes you Shut up Audrina You're not the dead one Therefore you're not as good Audrina Calm You're not the dead one. Therefore, you're not as good, Audrina. Calm down, Audrina. We saw her.

She's second best. Second place is first loser. First is the worst. Second is the worst-er. Second is worse-er. She goes into the forest, which she's constantly forbidden to go into. You stupid. We've told you.

By her family. How many times? She's nine. Oh, quick reminder for people. She's nine years old. Then she goes into into the forest there's a home in the forest where and of course i'm picturing it like full-on gingerbread house and in the house is a boy i think his name is auden and then his mother lives there too and she hides behind a tree and watches him rake the yard and in the book it's talking about like how he has a hot ass and shit he's 12 years old i swear to god is vc andrews okay i mean i

think she's just laying out a lot of like let's the let's just break all these taboos is she a pedophile uh no i think she's welcoming your mind to explore options you have up until this point told yourself you are not allowed to explore like pedophilia well or just a light appreciation of a 12 year old boy's ass in jeans privately so in a book then uh she gets caught being in the woods peeping being a peeping stalker yes a nine-year-old stalker um and so her father comes storming in grabs her every interaction with her and her father i get so nervous it's going to boil over into incest every time they talk or have breakfast or whatever there's so much inappropriate

in like intensity yeah um but at one point he starts he says to her common people will will drain your specialness and i had to write it down because she's saying he's saying like you're too good to talk to those people in the woods oh you adrena who you're making you the creepiest creeping creepo yeah don't talk to common people they're fucking yeah she's like take my specialness please i'm so sick of this specialness but she's she uh like quick reminder she's a nine-year-old and her hair is all colors and her eyes are all colors what the fuck was that it changed oh it's it's like it's like she's a calico child and that's part of her specialness um oh also the description of when vera gets spanked by daddy oh yeah and it's down to like her ass burning through her thin underwear like it gets into a detail where i'm like no this

is i think we need to talk to vc andrews is she available i don't know we need to have a little fucking quickie convo with her i mean look it it really, it just right, it goes right up to the edge and then, and then scatters back. And then kicks it in the shin. And then says, I have a crush on you, incest, and runs away. It's so crazy. Just bruised shins. Yes.

Oh, and then I said this at the show the other night, but my favorite, I'm assuming it's a misprint. It's some, she describes somebody, and I i'm assuming it's a misprint it's some she describes somebody and i'm pretty sure it's cousin vera coming down the hall clumsily clumbering which i'm like i'm almost positive clumbering isn't a word clumbering makes so much sense though it makes more sense but you can't if you're gonna say clumbering and not lumbering you don't need clumsy as well get clumsy out of there and get a different adjective without the CL at the beginning because now you're clumsily clumbering

is your borderline like raw doll. Why don't you just start singing a song Oompa Loompa style. And it's like okay, stop tripping over your own fucking feet. Yeah. Who, Vera? Everyone. She's a big fucking clumber. It's the girl? Okay. Speaking of books

about children, I have one to talk about okay but this is a bad one i mean not this is a badder this is a real one okay so last week we got in the in our po box a couple books from um a woman who lives in uh ohio and gave us two like ohio true crime books you took one yeah And I kept the other and started reading it. And I am halfway through not fucking obsessed with it. And it's so good. This is a woman named Karen sent these to us. And it's this one's called Amy, my search for her killer.

Here, I'll show it to you because she's this is a true crime one. Her name's Amy Mihaljevic. She's from a Cleveland suburb. And she disappeared on in October of 1989 and this dude, James Renner, who's the author, he like pitched it to his

like newspaper in town that he was working on and now this whole book is written by him trying to find out and going through fucking each suspect and talking to the main investigator, the FBIbi agents the fucking family and it's written so well and he inserts himself in the book in a way that doesn't suck yeah because he was the same age as she was when she disappeared a town over and like so it's

part of him and the way that we understand yeah right yeah the way that we remember growing up and seeing this person's face and how much it meant to us and it's it is such a fucking good book amazing and i can't wait to finish it so it's a it's by it's called amy a search for my search for her killer by james renner and i'm totally obsessed with it and in case you can't find it because it looks pretty um it's called it's a published by gray and company publishers www.grayco.com g-r-e-y g-r sorry g-r-a-y so if you can't find it in normal ways it's on grayco.com it's written so well james renner you can like you can tell how much it means to him when he's writing it. And it makes the book

so heartfelt and interesting and wonderful. And I really love it. Yeah, that's awesome. He's got a good face. He does. Yeah. You really did read a lot of that. Yeah. Dang, girl. All weekend I've been reading that. Good girl.

I know. Instead of drinking. I'm like, I can't drink too much because I want to read this book. Thanks, James. You fucking cured my alcoholism. Yeah, that's right. James. James. You should send him a Starbucks card. Oh, I swear to God, that wasn't an intentional segue.

But I would like to thank Live Nation. Yes. No, no, no. um live nation yes no no no um i went to starbucks the other night in glendale because just running errands and it was the night before i get so weird before we leave when we travel and i have to buy things that i want to make sure are there when i get back i get real ocd weird plus you like you're like black dress i need a black dress and all that no nothing i actually need i do things like I need coffee So I have coffee here when I get back

I wonder what that means It's part of my not wanting to leave the house in the first place So I start telling myself If I go I won't be ready I have a real stocking problem So does Audrina So does the second and worst shitty adrena creepiest and peepiest adrena the creepiest peepiest stockiest ever nine-year-old behind a rain tree with a

fucking 12-year-old but adrena there's like a whole picnic scene where i'm like nine-year-olds and 12-year-olds don't go on picnics nine-year-olds and 12-year-olds are a hundred years apart yes nobody wants no 12-year-old wants to talk to a nine-year-old. Unless she has hair that's purple, gold, yellow, orange, and red. Okay, so I went to the, I went to the, the Starbucks closest to the designer shoe warehouse. And, and I went in and the only coffee they had out was Christmas blend. So I asked the girl behind the counter if they had italian that's my kind um she says hold on i'll get my co-worker to go look for it are you fascist a little bit okay yeah i only i like italy just from like 1935 to right around

43 fair enough the girl comes out of the back holding like the one bag of italian and when she the doors fly open she's like oh my god and then i was like hey i was like that's for me and she's like um okay i love your podcast and then this is that's my favorite reaction when people seem genuinely bummed like they don't want to say it but they've already acted weird yeah and it was super cute anyway long story short she didn't act weird weird. That sounds judgmental. She was very sweet and seemed happy and surprised. And then she gave me a free pound of coffee.

And I was like, wait, hold on. I don't want you to pay for my coffee. And then she's like, no, we get a free pound every week. It was like a pound she would have had at home with her roommates. That's right. I'd like to take that away from her. Right. So thank you to.

Thank you to Mariah at the Glendale Starbucks. Front and me, your friends and family coffee. That's what she said anyway. Friends and fascist coffee. Thank you, Mariah. My Mussolini sips. I love it. I love Italians.

I love the way they make coffee. And did you come home from your trip happy that you had coffee? Yes. Pre-ground. Already in the thing. Come on. Because the mistake I home from your trip happy that you had coffee? Yes, pre-ground, already in the thing. Come on. Because the mistake I always make is then,

oh, forget it, I'll just get the whole bean at the grocery store. No. No. No, never. Terrible. Listen.

Creates, look, it creates garbage on your counter. Don't want that. Can't have it. Stephen's got one. Stephen's pointing at a thing. I was going to say,

it all recorded. Oh, good. Okay. Stephen almost deleted this entire episode The magic The magic that just happened You heard it How could any of that get recaptured I love thinking of people who start this podcast

This late on And the way we start this thing Is like a word puzzle Like who the fuck would know what was going on Why are they talking about my sweet Audrina And kicking people in the shins oh it's the first night of hanukkah oh yeah a hanukkah miracle happened today what was it so my thing my thing that i'm looking but i'm happy about this week at the end of the episode was going to be that my mom and i are going to therapy on thursday she's coming with me to therapy. Wow. We're going to sit in therapy together and work out why she's such a fucking stupid bitch.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to work some shit out. We're going to work it out. Because we're fighting right now and not speaking. But here's what happened. I accidentally told her it was Tuesday, our therapy appointment. So she called me. I was like, where the fuck are you?

She was like, where are you? And so I made her come meet Vince and I for lunch. And we worked some shit out. Oh, that's good. It went really well. Yeah. Oh, that's good. So everything's good now.

Are you still going to go? She can't. She has to work. On Thursday? Yeah. So it wouldn't have happened because I fucked it up. Yeah. But we talked and argued.

And Vince being there made it really great because he's such a good mediator and everything. So everything's fine now. Not fine. Everything's, you know, human now. Are you going to get her to go? Or do you think that window is closed? No, no. She'll come. She's been offering it for years and I've always been like, that's fucking

condescending. Fuck you. You think that like coming to therapy and so you can tell me what's wrong with, you know, I've been a dick about it. But does she go to therapy? Oh yeah. We all go to therapy. Oh, okay.

Everyone in my family goes to fucking therapy. Got it. Yeah. So that was a Hanukkah miracle. Amazing. Yeah. That you got to do it out of the office. Right.

Yeah. That it's still, we still were able to talk about what happened. Oh, that's good. And her mean text to me So thank you Yahweh And the angel Gabriel

And those guys And the first and best Audrina Thank you That's all her She had white hair I believe Yeah it was in fucking changey color Like a fucking monster She was in a fucking cuttlefish

Please Oh Elvis fucking changey color you know like a fucking monster she wasn't a fucking cuttlefish please oh elvis elvis loves cuttlefish what's the little uh oh my god jesus what's the one um tiny tim it's a happy christmas everyone is that it is that it? Is that it? No. Like you, you just revealed that you've been like a spy, a Russian spy, deep, deep state Russian spy. All I've seen is Scrooge. Okay. Happy Christmas, everyone. I said it was a Hanukkah miracle.

All this fucking this insane Siamese cat screamed. And then I said, it's a happy Christmasmas everyone i said it was a hanukkah miracle all this fucking this insane siamese cat screamed and then i said it's a happy christmas everyone oh sorry that just reminded me my favorite shirt of the weekend was the woman who was wearing a shirt that said make paul onions proud i almost lost my mind i don't it's what is wrong with you people? It's the best. You're the best people ever. Funniest best. Who wants to go first? I went first

at the insane Kansas City show that'll never be posted. That is one of my favorite shows. So sometimes you guys will have, will like, if we sell out a show

really, really quickly, our amazing, wonderful tour agent, Joe Schwartz, will be like, you guys will have um well like if we sell out a show really really quickly our amazing wonderful tour agent joe schwartz will be like you guys add a late show and we'll be like okay and then we're like why did we do that it's it's really hard to do it's pretty hard second show and so we get on there and we're fucking hopped up on diet coke and fucking coffee. And cocaine. And cocaine. And like mini Twix bars. And we go up and it's fucking bananas. And this one was especially bananas. You saved, yours was great. You saved it.

Here's the thing. It just is like such a roll of the dice. We are doing a thing that you probably should not do for a live show, which is we don't know what the other person is going to talk about which makes it really fun and it's the best part but then like on that one with mine i felt like i was in a car sliding on ice it like skidding into a brick wall i went first last time so i'll go first okay hi. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin, and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign

to root out communism in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified.

Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business. Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. Now this story,

Guy Branum told me to do this a while ago when we were doing shows in Toronto. But I said, no, it's, when he told me about it, I read it up a little bit and then I was like, oh, it's too singular. It's too like, doesn't have enough, I don't know, bells and whistles or whatever.

Body. Body? Body. Yeah. But then I read it and that's not the case and I knew it was a good story because for me it this story causes me more and more and more anxiety as I read it it uh so i'll tell you about this is um this is the story of jennifer pan oh oh you know this one yes okay then i love it so i realized in reading these articles what i found was that the real like um mother like the source of this story. Mother dough? Yeah, exactly. The original yeast dough of this story

was from an article written by a woman named Karen K. Ho, a name I'll remember for the rest of my life, for, I guess, a magazine called Toronto Life. Because this girl knew Jennifer Pan and grew up with her. So it was kind of giving a different, like a different view of how the whole thing. I feel like it's always different when the person who's writing the story knows what the town was like, where they're from. You know what I mean?

Like, cause it can be like any fucking small town or suburb or whatever, but you know what it's like. Yeah. And what the person, what the high school is like, and what the curriculum and what the person's expect expectations are yeah this context because context and this one yes and like it's the family context especially in this story because this is one of those stories about what they call the dragon parents so right there's tiger tiger moms are one thing but then there's another term that they were using in all these articles, and it was dragon parents or dragon father. So I think it's the ones that are way more intense.

It's not just like, it's the kind that are insanely restrictive and insanely strict and tough with really high expectations where there's kind of, you have no choice. Failure is not an option. Right. Okay. So on November 8th, 2010, um, at around 9 30 PM, Jennifer Pan locked the front door of her family's home in Markham, Ontario, which is a suburb outside of Toronto and went to bed. Uh, shortly afterwards, three men entered her home with guns.

Um, they ransacked the home. It was a home invasion, um, looking for money. They grabbed, um, Jennifer's parents. Han is her father and Bic, uh, is her mother. They took them down into the basement. Um, basically the TV room down in their basement, brought them down into the basement. They were demanding money. They looked all through the master bedroom.

They tore up the whole master bedroom to find money. They kept demanding money. We're being invaded. Han, Jennifer's father, told them that he had money in his wallet. He was trying to think of other places that he could give them money from. And they end up shooting Han in the shoulder and then in the right eye. And then as Bic, Jennifer's mother, is screaming, they shoot her three times and kill her. Han survives getting shot in the eye.

The dad? Yes. How does that happen? I don't know. It broke his orbital bone, the bullet, and it grazed the vein that goes down your throat. I guess, is it your jugular? Or one of those? No, the artery?

Cartoid? Eye vein. The eye vein. His big tear duct. It basically went through his eye. No, I don't like that. But then, like, I think out the side, and he survived. Jesus.

Upstairs, they tied Jennifer to the staircase. Bannisters? Thank you, to the bannister. The thing you stick you. To the banister. The thing you stick your head through. Yeah. And get stuck. How old is she again? 16?

No. At the time, she is 26. Okay. Oh, wow. But she looks 16. Okay. She lives at home. Yes.

She lives at home with her very strict parents. Okay. So, they tie her with shoelaces to the banister. They tie her with shoelaces to the banister and they shoot the parents and then they all leave with whatever cash that they've taken. I think it's it ended up being like through around three thousand dollars or something. Jennifer gets out of she loosens out of the shoelaces. She calls 911. She's freaking out. The cops arrive.

Han comes out of the basement. He's able to get up and walk outside. A neighbor's the first one to find him. And he gets loaded into an ambulance. Jennifer gets loaded into an ambulance. She has a younger brother who is half an hour away at college. And they all get taken. She gets met by crisis workers at the hospital.

They tell her her father's in surgery and that her mother is dead. She's at the hospital for a really long time. Eventually they realize that there's not even wounds, like there aren't even red marks on her wrist from those shoelaces. So she is uninjured and she ends up um they take her once she's out of the hospital they take her back to the police station and the um the detectives question her and basically just kind of start asking her questions what happened just can you describe these people they make her go through it once then they do

another technique where they make her um and i got also got a lot of this from case file one of our favorite case file that's what that's the episode i listened to of this show i mean that guy just does such amazing research it's just so dramatic yes yeah um he was also pronouncing the mom's name bicka but i only ever saw uh written that it was pronounced bick. So I'm. Well, yeah. And he's Australian. He's Australian.

I don't know what he's doing. He's doing something with his voice. So anyway. Okay. So basically she goes and the cops are like, tell me the story your way. Now tell it from above, like just, and then see what you can remember. So like, that's so weird. Can you imagine having to

do that yes especially of a traumatic event yeah telling the story over and over it's like as you see the people acting it out as oh that's so weird it's so crazy but then that second way does help her to remember and she's able to describe the guys better and more detail she remembers them the names that they called each other different things that they talked about with the money whatever um so it's a little bit effective then right before she leaves the guy says oh and we need to check your phone because if these guys we think you know her mom had just come home from line dancing class so they're like well maybe somebody followed her or like it's she was targeted somehow so if it wasn't her then we want to see if it was you if you were being

targeted so we need to know who you've been talking to and then in this interview because on the case file thing that that he has all the interview tapes so they that it starts with the 911 tape where i was on the freeway did you listen on? On the way over. And I grabbed that phone so fast. Because she is freaking out into the phone. And of course, you know, screaming. But then in the police interview tapes, she's crying. She's really upset. And then at one point, he says, you need to sign this thing so we can look into your phone. And then she's like, so.

And all of a sudden, she has a bunch of questions about how they're looking into her phone and what that might mean and he's basically going it's fine because if you're not lying to us it's just us looking at your phone and then if you are lying to us we're going to find out like who you've been talking to and if it's information we need to know and that's when like the temperature changes a little bit because up until that point she was the victim she was you know, like one of two survivors of a terrible home invasion murder robbery. So that, you know, it changes a tiny bit there. And then they start looking into her past and the people that she's been talking to. And it turns out that Jennifer Pan might not be the person that she has been presenting herself to be.

Okay, so basically, her father, Han, had been a tiger dad. We'll start at the beginning. Her parents were both born and raised in Vietnam, and they moved to Canada as political refugees in 1979. And they got married in Toronto. And then they lived in Scarborough neighborhood for a while. And that's where they had Jennifer in 1987. And then her brother Felix in 1989. Scarborough neighborhood apparently was kind of rough at the time that they lived there.

They both, Han and Bic, worked at Magna International Car Parts Manufacturer. And they worked really hard. So by 2004, they'd saved enough money to buy a large house, the two-car garage, in Markham. So Markham was a quiet suburb north of Toronto. Predominantly Asian families. And it's just kind of like where people went it was really just quiet low-key um and now bick is driving a lexus hans driving a mercedes like they're doing very well yeah and um they have it's reported they had 200 grand in the bank so they were totally dedicated to their kids and getting their kids

into college getting their making their kids as successful um you know canadians as they can um so they didn't allow jennifer they had jennifer was playing piano from the age of four she won all these awards she had like a room full of awards for how good she was at playing the piano um then she got into ice skating. Um, when she, a little older, when she's a little older and she did it every single day and she wanted to go, uh, she was like in training and she had set her sights on being in the 2010 winter Olympics in Vancouver. Then she tears a ligament in her knee and basically that dream ends for her. Um,

when she was graduating eighth grade, she thought she was going to be the valedictorian. And she basically found out she was getting no academic awards and she was not the valedictorian. And that's like all of a sudden she was just like, I'm the point. I'm not who I'm supposed to be. Right. And she kind of,

she had been working her ass off up to that point. So she, it wasn't, she didn't make a mark and she was of she had been working her ass off up to that point so she it wasn't she didn't make a mark and she was shocked and couldn't believe it and that's totally unacceptable in her family like her family was like always all you do is like these extracurricular activities we've chosen for you very specifically and then you're gonna be like you're going to be like, you're going to get a 4.8 GPA, essentially. Is that even a thing? No. She just has to do the impossible, essentially.

Okay, got it. So some nights in elementary school, she'd come home from ice skating at 10, then do homework till midnight, and then go to bed in elementary school. And in elementary school, she started um, and in elementary school, she started cutting herself because the pressure was so intense to be successful in all these different things she was doing. Um, so she was doing little horizontal cuts on her forearms. Yeah. So, um, so then when she went to Mary Ward Catholic secondary school, um, ice skating was over for her she started playing flute in the school band um but every day after school her parents were there to pick her up

when when band practice was over so she could go home and study but her grades in for the way their family considered it were failing because she was only getting b's. God, I would have fucking paid for a B back then with my cello. With my shitty cello playing. I mean, I don't understand why I got any of the grades I got because I never tried and I would get just a full variety from A to D. Oh, it was

just like, why try? Yeah. I learned that early. It's very random. Yeah. Why try? Why try? Just have a good time. So, when she got her first bad, you know, all B's report card freshman year, don't learn that early it's very random yeah why try why try just have a good time yeah um so when she got her first bad you know all b's report card freshman year she took some old report cards some scissors some glue a photocopier and she made herself a brand new fake report card worth straight a's all a's yep that's how you get all a's and in in her mind, she said, universities don't consider marks from grade nine, Canadian grade nine and Canadian grade 10. Um, so she's in her mind, it wasn't a big deal. It didn't matter.

Fair enough. And I'm sure she was thinking, I'm buying myself a little time. Here's these A's and I'll work back up to A's and it'll all work out. Sure. Um, she was not allowed to have a boyfriend. She was not allowed to go to dances. She was not allowed to go to parties. She was not allowed to have a boyfriend. She was not allowed to go to dances. She was not allowed to go to parties. She was not allowed to spend the night at friends' houses. It was all about school and getting her schoolwork. In the spring, all her hard work and dedication paid off. She graduated from high school and won early acceptance to ryerson university in toronto her parents were happy they wanted her to go to the university of toronto but

ryerson university was still great for them here's the problem uh jennifer pan had early acceptance to ryerson university but then that got canceled when she flunked out of calculus uh when she was a senior um so she that that early acceptance was rescinded now she's not in any college oh no so she starts doing what many people do you pretend you're going to college every morning yeah so this is like yeah now we're into me when i live in sacramento and i'm flunking out of college but my parents don't know. So I'm doing the thing where I go home for the summer and every day get up and run to

the mailbox like I'm a child excited for the mail trying to get the mail, the report card before my parents do. Because they're going to see it and know you're not going. Yeah, my report card was like a.83 or something. Like I was only going to theater classes.

I mean, you're literally going. It was insane. Oh, no. So she's doing the same thing, but she's kind of doing it in reverse. So she's saying she's going to school, getting up every morning, taking the train, and then just chilling out at cafes. She got a part-time job waitressing at a pizza place um and she was hanging out with her secret high school boyfriend daniel wong daniel wong so she had been dating daniel wong since they went on a european the in high school

bands they went on a trip to europe and she'd only been friends with them up until that point and she i think the story was that she had an asthma attack in a smoke-filled bar and like thought that she was gonna die because she couldn't breathe and daniel came to her rescue and daniel came to her rescue and like talked her down and then they became secret lovers yeah i was trying to hold my breath so you could finish that because it was so amazing, but I couldn't. Karen singing. Oh, my God, Daniel. They were secret lovers. So that had been going on also.

She had a bunch of plates spinning at once, Jennifer Pan. So sometimes she would go over to his house. She finally convinced her parents that she needed to move in with her friend topaz who lived close to college and had an amazing name and had the best names was she a stripper we'll never know it doesn't matter that's what i'm picturing in my head topaz in the apartment had the pole to practice on i mean that's hard have you seen this is like some crazy ab work dude that's like incredible dedication uh strength stamina stamina i just fall asleep as i'm talking um so uh okay so basically that becomes part of it she's also telling her father that her grades are

so good she's getting like three thousand dollar tuition scholarships so she it's just lies upon lies upon lies so um because it's better than having to tell your parents that you're just like a normal human being right which made me so sad it's just just to be like i'm just average and i want it just to enjoy my life yeah as a normal human is not acceptable right and there is apparently there's a couple times in this article that um bick her mom would be like let her be herself or she's okay as she is and tried to like take the heat off a little bit but she was also jennifer's the oldest yeah and there's just so you know there was so much pressure it's that it's it's the same kind of pressure in um like i will i can equate it in the way of like in our family irish immigrants like they call them lace lace curtain irish where they make sure everything looks really good because

they think everybody thinks they're a scumbag so they're like here's our beautiful lace look how well we're doing everything's ironed and everyone, we have nine kids, but everyone's clothes are perfectly ironed. Well, it's a thing of like immigrant parents where it's like, I didn't fucking, I didn't go through what I went through for you to work in an office, like a boring office or in a pizza place or as a, you know, even as an exotic dancer, like, which is all acceptable fucking jobs. It's what everybody does. That's not not i will not accept it i didn't come here from vietnam to fucking raise a child to not be a superstar you have to have like your own law firm you have to yeah you have to do everything perfectly and never trip once which is not only impossible yeah but also that's not how you get good at things thank god my parents had

no expectations for me whatsoever aside from i mean aside from nothing my parents my dad used to love to tell the story that they used to bring home their report cards to my grandpa who they said d's and um d's and f's meant doing fine and he didn't he dropped out of school when he was a kid. So he was like doing good, everybody. Jesus Christ. And they all became civil servants and plumbers and things that, you know, back then you could make money by doing that.

It's not like that anymore. Anyway. I'm sorry. Go on. No, no, no. No, but there, it's just funny how there, there, there are these pressures. In some way, it's like in some cultures, it's just funny how there there there are these pressures in some way it's like in some cultures it's academic pressure in some cultures it's like you have to get married and

have a family immediately pressure yeah it's it just depends but really or being used to be religious yeah yeah stay in the click totally stay in the fam totally okay so jennifer is she's under the gun and now she's 22 years old. And she has been lying to her parents consistently since like eighth grade, essentially. Oh my God. And having like a double life, which is kind of amazing. But she's never gone to a party. She's never gone to a club. She's never gotten drunk.

And her one relationship is her secret relationship with daniel wong um so basically she then tells them that she her it was her father's dream for her to go to pharmacology school and become a pharmacist so she's like guess what everybody i got accepted like she just makes a thing up yeah she um she lies she tells them that she got in they're thrilled she hadn't but she starts buying used books and bringing home like pharmacology books and when she would leave for school every day it's stressing you out huh steven no it just reminds me of the woman who did that for stanford and pretend to be in stanford for like two years same thing because her family thought she was in stanford pressure yeah so she lived in like palo alto

and she would like sleep in like if a door it's like if a dorm like a roommate dropped out she'd be like oh i'm the new roommate and she would sleep in people's dorms and stuff pretending that she was a student faking her her grades. All the same stuff. Oh my god. Yeah. It's insane. They kind of should get an honorary doctorate for getting away with it. Yeah.

For like faking it for so long. Don't pretend to be successful. Because then you have so much further to fall. Yes. And also it's. Take that. Take that initial hit of like. I fucked up.

Let the chips fall. They can only yell for so long. Yeah. And take the initiative to lie and use that towards something better. You know what I mean? Like, you're a really good liar. Like, go get a job somewhere cool. Right.

And build yourself up to management. Take that. Lie your way to management. Don't lie. But just like, you clearly are not stupid if you're able to fucking trick all these people for two years get into sales get into fucking sell houses sell houses sell uh mobile phones on hollywood boulevard right out on the sidewalk right pharmaceuticals you start right around the corner in the alley there you go my dad sold

fucking uh ginsu knives at fucking Walmart. Hell yes. Do it. Those things can cut a Coke can. And he showed you how at a Walmart. Marty. Marty. Go ahead. So she instead goes for it in a major way.

She majors in lying and tells her dad she's going to pharmacology school, which I just can't. It's almost like she's not even lying and going like, I, you know what? I got a job in California. I'll see you later or anything. She's not busting out. She's just like continuing to try to make it work. Like I still have to live here.

Yeah. And I have to make these people happy and I don't know how. So I'm just going to do it the way they demand. So she's buying fake textbooks. Not fake textbooks. Used textbooks like the old pharmacology. Right. And then she's

going to the library and watching videos and reading books on it and taking notes so that when she goes home she has reams of notes so it looks like she's really doing work she could have actually been going to school this whole time doing that probably if she if she wasn't a b student she could have um that was rude so so then she asked she asked if she can stay at topaz's house during the week because it's a way better commute her mom's like super empathetic and like let's let her it'll be so much better well she's of course not staying at topaz's house she's staying at daniel wong's house danny um his parents she was lying to his parents and saying it was okay with her parents that she was staying at their house and then uh so basically there was no one she wasn't lying to

except daniel wall um so basically when it was theoretically time for her to graduate from the university of toronto pharmacology program they daniel and helped her find someone online to create a fake transcript with all a's in it and then she told her parents when it was the graduation ceremony that um they that it was an extra large class and all the there weren't enough seats all the students only got one ticket and she'd already given it to a friend because she didn't think one parent would want to go without the other parent. Yeah, I think that's when it might have started to stink a little bit to the parents. But then when Jennifer told them that she was volunteering at Toronto's prestigious hospital for sick children, they noticed that she didn't have any ID, no uniform. There was nothing to prove that she didn't have any id no uniform there was nothing to

prove that she officially worked there so one day han they drop her off or they insist upon driving her to work and so then she gets out of the car and runs into the hospital and then han tells bick go in after her and follow her in so she ends up going and running and like hiding for hours in the emergency room or in the in the waiting room um and basically bit comes back out and like doesn't find her um uh and basically she waits them out until they leave and then early the next morning they call topaz to say hey we need to talk to jennifer and topaz who just wakes up is like she's not here yeah isn't in on it isn't it doesn't know what's going on and basically they find out that jennifer was at daniel's house and and the whole

lie comes down or the whole house of lies the whole house of cards starring starring Kevin Spacey comes down. It all becomes a house of cards. So basically she has to confess she never volunteered at the hospital for sick children. She didn't. She wasn't in the pharmacology program and that she had been staying at Daniel's house. She actually didn't mention that she'd never graduated from high school and that her time at Ryerson University was fake. So I didn't even know that. She didn't admit to any of that. She only she got out what she could.

Of course, Han lost his fucking shit. The dad went crazy. Bic had to convince him to let her remain in the house. And they basically said, it's him. It's Daniel Wong or it's us. And if you go's him it's daniel wong or it's us and if you go with him you can never come back to this house again so then she basically had to break up with daniel wong because she didn't know where to go or what to do um so and they take away her cell phone and her laptop for two weeks and then after that they tell her we're

going to check your messages anytime we want to make sure you're not interacting with him. And she's an adult. Now she's like 25. Oh, my God. So she's, yeah, it's, it's not, it's crazy. Yeah. So she finishes up just that she takes a calculus class, finished, gets her high school, like GED or whatever. takes a calculus class finished gets her high school like ged or whatever um she uh so basically her parents encourage her to apply for college for real she makes money as a being a piano teacher

part-time and um basically she can't go anywhere except for university or piano lessons um uh this so she's 24 i said that so um when she breaks up with daniel this time says i can't see you anymore because i'll get kicked out forever he's like i fine like i can't take it anymore anyway yeah he starts dating somebody else and they fall in love oh no and of course jennifer doesn't it well. She falls into a deep depression. She attempts suicide. And at one point, she tells Daniel that some men had home invaded their house and had gang raped her. And then she tells him that his new girlfriend mailed a bullet to her as a warning to stay away. She basically insinuated that the new girlfriend this was all her plan yeah to attack jennifer yeah um so somehow that story works okay uh because they

end up getting back together well is she a really good liar at this point i think she must be in the like that 911 call is so believable i would have never doubted her and i'm sure in a way she was really i mean right her parents were just attacked right so i don't think she's a completely cold like sociopath or psychopath but but um she's been lying for fucking 15 years yeah she has to be good at it and used to it and it's a normal it's not keeping her up at night yeah it's not and it's like a it's like a normal way to live your life is to start by trying to lie about something yeah that like if you're if you're not getting what you want get that manipulation going because you can't ever get anything kind of the direct way default is to

tell some tell a person what they want to hear yes or like or really play a huge card right so that people go like holy shit stop everything why would anyone lie yeah exactly so basically daniel and daniel himself is a bit of uh he's he has been kicked out of schools he um he's a little you know he got caught dealing pot when he went to that catholic school that they went to together he's a little you know living on the edge a little bit himself so when they get back together basically together they figure out that her parents life insurance policies would pay out half a million dollars and that she's the beneficiary and so daniel starts helping her make a plan to to have them killed fuck yes so he says that he knows a guy named lenford crawford the worst name of all time a borderline vc andrews name lenford crawford um daniel calls

him homeboy uh they start setting up a thing where like she can uh she has a separate sim card and iphone so she can talk to him and make this plan nobody finds out um and basically the plan is uh when you're done like watching tv for the night unlock the front door so she so she actually left the front door unlocked then she went upstairs to her room she flicked the lights in the study to give them the signal that it was time. Her mom had come home from line dancing, was watching TV. Her dad was watching the news in a different room. And basically these men came in, and the men that home invaded and basically attempted to kill her father and

killed her mother it was all her doing and a completely her setup oh my god yeah so which you know it felt like we were getting to that it's not the biggest reveal in the world but it's so sad it's so fucking crazy and over the top and then basically the third time they bring her so the cops the first time they think they're just getting the story from her the first interview the second interview they're kind of like let's talk about this again and go over some details yeah and it's always you know it's like the family is what's looked at first always plus the dad was supposed to die yeah right yes so the dad was supposed to die was the mom supposed to die yes they both were okay yeah okay so essentially the third time they enter they interrogate her and they use something uh i think it was called i didn't i didn't write it here but

basically a guy named jeremy grimaldi is a journalist. In 2016, he published a true crime book about Jennifer called A Daughter's Deadly Deception, the Jennifer Pan story. And in that, he talks about they use this interrogation technique that might not have been above board, where they basically trick you into trusting them. And then waterboard. And then like, it's almost like one guy is good cop and bad cop. Waterboard you. And then they just waterboard. And then like, it's almost like one guy is good cop and bad cop. Waterboard you. And then they just waterboard you.

Wait, so the guy is like, you trust me, you trust me, you trust me. Now I'm angry and you need to make me not angry anymore because I'm your friend. Yes. Like they lull her into a sense of kind of like she's being talked to like, yes, you're a victim too. And I bet it was really hard. Your dad was really mean and strict and whatever. And then just boom.

And they like, it's like that kind of shock and awe thing. I didn't read the whole thing of, but you can read this book where it talks all about that, how that interview might not have been totally fair. Oops. But at the end of the day, she is the person who hired those people. And essentially at the trial her own father took the stand and told the story of what happened that was March 19th 2014 he basically had to get

up on the stand and tell everybody how these men came in and he survived when he woke up after getting shot into the eye he woke up to his dead wife laying there next to him and then like got out of the house thinking that everyone had been killed yeah like where's my daughter is she okay yeah worried about her too probably of course and then slowly finds out that it's she's the one behind it horrible so after 10 months of this trial, Jennifer Pan, Daniel Wong, homeboy, homeboy, Lenford Crawford. And this guy's name was David Milvaganaman. There's a bunch of Milvaganaman.

Milvaganaman. They all got, they were all convicted for murder and attempted murder and each received a life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years um and then the the third guy eric cardi who is the one that tied her to the banister he's tried separately so um there's yeah so basically read karen kaho's article in toronto life magazine jennifer pan's revenge the inside story of a golden child the killers she hired and the parents she wanted dead oh my god that's the article you're going to want to really get into because there are pieces of this article in every other article yeah yeah that's what everyone's basing it on karen because

you'll never understand unless you have like been raised in a family like that yeah but there's crazy it's like so strict but then there's people that have had terrible parents they don't have their parents killed it's just that weird turn of like yeah it it just stresses me out so bad it's like i've done that exact thing where you're like okay that fucked up now i'm gonna make up a new thing that's gonna get fucked up and i'm gonna do that dumb thing and like the more complicated you make it the the more the worse you're making it for yourself yeah for sure that's a good one dude it's crazy good job thanks that's that is bananas um yeah vince had a friend she was a comedian from michigan and they went to new york and her name was joanne and she came from that kind of family where she had been lying to her

family they all thought she was going to school to be a dentist and she was actually a comedian and didn't tell any of them and then out out of nowhere, she fucking jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge. Yeah. And killed herself. I remember hearing about that. It's just so sad. Like, she just couldn't tell them that she was doing what she actually wanted to do in life. Yeah, it's horrible.

It's just like such a sad thing to me. I can't imagine. And I bet so sad for the family. Yeah. I think they're applying pressure in just the right way to or or whatever they're doing what they know right and i'm sure never in a million years is that the result they're looking for they'd rather have their daughter as a comedian that you know and not what they wanted her to be than what they wanted her to be and alive right of course it's always made me so sad

even though i didn't know her it's so tragic yeah i remember a lot of i mean a lot of people i know knew her and yeah it was they're really upset about it yeah um all right well okay here's my turn this um this is a timely story because it's a cold case that finally hopefully this is the end came last week uh-huh but this is a story that i've been interested in it's a 40 one of the 48 hours you know we've all watched it it's really interesting texas monthly i got a lot of this information from the texas monthly which we love texas monthly the best article called unholy act by pamelaela Koloff. C-O-L-L-O-F-F. This is the story of a

fucking priest John Fight. Oh. And the murder of Irene Garza. Oh, I don't know this. Oh, honey. Oh, shit. Fucking buckle the fuck up. Buckle down, baby. Settle in. Buckle up. Hit your foot on the coffee

table kick the coffee table as hard as you can coffee table like you have a crush on it um okay here we go okay so irene garza is born in 1934 she's this dark-ired Hispanic beauty from McAllen, Texas. It's an agricultural, agricultural, nope, area. Agricultural. Agricultural. Thank you. Area south of Texas in the Rio Grande Valley, five miles from the U.S.-Mexico border. In high school, Irene had been crowned Miss all south texas sweetheart shit and mcallen high

school uh where uh you know everyone's fucking white back then she had been the first hispanic twirler and head drum majorette wow so she was like fucking busting down borders she's this beautiful beauty queen but she's hispanic so it's, you know, a sense of pride that it's, it's, you know, she's, she's sitting down borders. Yeah, she's not. I mean, Texas, that's like, blonde, big teeth, blue eyes, that's like, usually what you're going to get out of a Texas beauty queen, right? And she is, you know, she's not that. And she's the first in her family to graduate from college, which is a super big deal. Huge accomplishment. So at 25 years old, she worked as a teacher for disadvantaged children, which she took a great pride in. Some of her students were so poor and came from the neighborhood where she had come from and had been able to get out of that they came to school barefoot. And Irene spent her first paycheck on buying those children clothes and books. Yeah.

So happens to this very day. Right. Even worse. Exactly. So she's this really big hearted, kind person. She is gorgeous, which isn't a reason why she shouldn't be a victim. But there's just this warmth coming from her. And, you know she had a huge future that uh that that she earned yeah what i'm saying yeah listen look

look and listen stop it at the center of her life though is her uh devout catholic faith that's like her fucking thing on On April 16th, 1960, the day before fucking Easter Sunday. Oh, okay. Is Saturday, Easter Saturday called a thing? It's like chill out Saturday. Doesn't sound like it. It is. Palm, I don't know.

Chill the fuck out Saturday. The day before Easter. Well, go ahead. Well friday good friday good friday is when he went up on that cross okay it might be the ascension i don't know he chilled out on saturday he got rolled on up in that tomb yeah and then and then he was risen on sunday yeah but saturday he just hung out well saturday was all up in that tomb. Yeah. People thinking, he's dead, it's over. Yeah, and he was like, you know what, I'm gonna hide. Okay, I'm not gonna get sacrilegious here.

We already have. Real mad at me. It's so sad because I've had this shit drummed into my head, but then of course when it would be impressive, I can't pull it out. But here's the thing, and today's the first night of Hanukkah. We rebelled against it because we hated it so much. So everything was drummed into our head. We're like, fuck you.

I'm not remembering this. Yeah. And now we don't. Now we just don't know things. Now just the guilt remains. The guilt and the ignorance. And the really good songs. Oh, yeah. I got a bunch of those. Peace is flowing like a river. Anytime you want me to sing it to you, I will. Okay.

Okay. Baruch Atah. Let's fucking do this. Name a prayer. Okay. Okay. Baruch Atah. Let's fucking do this. Name a prayer. Okay. Okay. So, on April 16th, fucking lazy Saturday, 1960, Irene borrows, she's 25, she borrows her family car to drive to their church, Sacred Heart Church, where she plans to go to confession. She leaves around 6.30 that evening. She evening she's like mom i'll be back a bunch of witnesses see her get to church everyone's

in line for confession she gets in line as well but no one sees her leave that church that day she never came home that night and the next morning easter sunday that's right as you know he is truly risen he rises and her car is still parked down the street from Sacred Heart. The first clue comes two days later when one of Irene's high-heeled shoes is spotted by the side of the road. And 300 yards from there is her purse. It looks as if someone had thrown it out the window of a passing car. There's no fingerprints on it. This crazy huge search ensues, they they drag derogation canals they go house to house through the town border patrol planes go fucking circling um 65 national guardsmen are called out

to assist what became at the time the most extensive investigation in valley history wow but it's not till four days later after she disappeared that irene's body is found floating in a nearby irrigation canal she's fully dressed except for her shoes and underwear are missing the right side of her face is badly bruised She had two black eyes and the autopsy reveals that she had been beaten with a hard object and suffocated. The state of decomposition suggests that she'd been dead for fewer than four days. So maybe she had been kept somewhere for a day or so. And she had been raped while unconscious. Yeah.

The local newspapers go fucking nuts with rumors and speculation everyone is like being fucking targeted or fingered uh including this prominent local citizen who had died a heart attack days after she disappeared you know or that had been transients or someone that had a crush on her because she was so beautiful but she was also you know not she was dating but not you know she was catholic um you know what i mean sure uh detectives question more than 500 people in the weeks following the murder but behind the scenes detectives they don't talk about this in public and the newspapers don't really talk about this they are focusing on a 27 year old priest named john fight what yeah a priest okay fight it's f-e-i-t had recently finished his seminary training in san antonio and his name kept turning up in their

investigation so he had recently come into town he was a bright and well he was bright and well mannered he had dark hair and horn-brimmed glasses he looked like he'd be in weezer you know what i'm saying yes yeah um he struck parishioners though as aloof and a bit of a loner and seemed ambivalent about his vocation when he was asked why he had joined the priesthood he said i just want to give it a try i I'm sorry. But if God isn't in that sentence or Jesus or some fucking. You can't say that out loud. Was he new to Catholicism? You got to be in it to win it.

Like if anyone asked either of us why we want to do true crime podcast, it would be like a passionate plea of how interested in fucking crime we are. That's right. And we're not. And talking. Talking to God. Right. Mostly talking. But also like to not.

It's almost that very glib, flippant thing of. Cocky. Like it's here's my funny joke. And like, really, it's none of your business. Right. Is what he's saying. Right. Which you're not supposed to say.

Anyone who's asking you is like being earnest and being like, tell me I want to connect to you. You're a priest. I'm looking for some fucking guidance and some wisdom. Can I get a fucking amen, please? There you go. On the night of Irene's disappearance, Father Fite had heard confessions and taken part in a midnight mass. He'd also admitted to his superiors that he had met privately with irene in the church rectory and i wrote in parentheses the house

because i didn't know what a rectory was i thought it was an office the church's office i thought it was you know where he went and wrote out his i thought it was an office well it's a house right i didn't know that it's the priest house that's but it's connected to the church so it kind of is like an office do all the priests live there or just the one like head priest it's um it's kind of like case by case like in my hometown at saint vincent's um they live at the rectory and but you can also go there like at my mom's funeral we went to talk to the priest in the rectory, like in a downstairs office.

Doesn't rectory sound like it should be like a side room office. Well, it sounds like factory where they're just turning out Jesus statues all day and night. But that, but I mean, I think it's like, it's basically, um, you know, the church hall is where people like have their, you know, Sunday coffee clutches or whatever. The rectory is where you'd go and you're like, we need to plan a funeral. We need to plan a wedding. This is some serious shit happening here.

This is the business. And then upstairs, the priests live. And then it's the busybodies next door. Yes. Making fucking, I was going to say kugel, but they don't need kugel. No, they actually, they banned kugel long ago. All right, I get it. So the rectory is, okay.

And that was viewed by other priests as really inappropriate to take anyone, especially a fucking hot 25-year-old lovely woman. All right. Well, yeah, because unless she has called, like, if it was a parish business, she would have called, like lady the lady that runs the office and then like i need to make an appointment this was for confession specifically oh yeah no you do that in the confession booth there's a there's a booth that is titled for the thing she was doing they had people build it right into the church so people specifically you can sit there

and pray and then look at people getting confession. Uh-huh. That's the whole idea of confession. Well, he took her to the rectory. Gross. Pass. Okay. Yeah.

It's. It's problematic. Yes, it is. Also, several churchgoers who stood in his confession line, which had fucking stalled out because he fucking picked her out and took her to the rectory to talk. Oh. That night told detectives that he seemed to have been absent from the sanctuary for long periods of time.

And another priest, Father John O'Brien, reported seeing scratches on his hands when they drank coffee together at midnight mass. Ooh. Uh-huh. Ooh. Uh-huh. Then detectives learned that on March 23rd,

so that's three weeks before Irene disappeared and her body was found, that a woman had been attacked at a Catholic church 12 miles from that church. The one where Irene went to. 12 miles away. 20-year-old college student Maria America Guerrera had visited Sacred Heart Church in Edinburgh and noticed a young man with dark hair and horn-rimmed glasses, weezer, sitting alone in one of the back pews. And in her mind, she was like, I think she had an immediate reaction to him.

He made me nervous, but she was like, calm down, Maria. You're in the church. You're in the fucking house of God. Nothing can go wrong. Right. You know, she let her guard down. Yeah. Which is totally understandable.

In a church, of course. In a church. Right. You know, she let her guard down. Yeah. Which is totally understandable. In a church, of course. In a church. Yeah. When she went to the altar and knelt at the communion rail, a man grabbed her from behind and tried to put a rag over her mouth. Holy shit. Yeah. She fucking fought the shit out of him.

And when he put his hand back over her mouth to silence her because she was screaming, she bit the shit out of his fingers until he drew blood. She drew yes that's you know what i'm saying yeah she ran out the side door of the church she escaped and in her sworn statement she said that she thought her attacker was a priest that was the first feeling she got wow which was very controversial yes you know what i'm saying i bet because this is the 50s or the 60s this is like this is 1960 so we're technically still in the 50s. So I wrote about this, that this is a long time before the sexual allegations against priests started to come out and people believed them. This wasn't until the 90s that these allegations came out against priests sexually molesting children.

And it wasn't even until way later that people believed them. Well, and of course, horrible documentary. I mean oh amazing documentary i wrote this down there's is it the um it's uh deliver us from evil and there's a guy in it that talks about when he got molested by a priest right being driven in the police the priest's car because they he didn't have a dad and so he's like i'll take him out to ice cream or whatever gets molested in the priest's car the priest drops him off he walks into the house says to the mom what just happened the mother slaps him across the face and says how dare you ever say that and then the priest continues

visiting their house for years to come it's the most upsetting it's just children against adults and there's no everyone's like no fucking way it's not even children against adults it's children against god's chosen people and these i highly religious people which i don't completely understand which is why i was excited to talk to you about this because you were raised catholic they're infallible yes are infallible and And you talking badly against a priest is talking badly against Jesus fucking Christ. That's right. Right. It's this, it's, it's like pre-Vatican II shit where it's like, it's old.

Like when the popes used to control everybody and they were the richest people and they fuck anything they wanted. And it was just all about power and money. And basically these, yeah, this is why people who were pedophiles went into the priesthood because they went in with carte blanche and we're not saying that catholicism is bad religion that priests are bad people that any you know we're not i'm not talking shit on any of this it's just this reality of a of a really bad period that happened that uh we need to acknowledge.

Well, yeah. And I mean, I think at this point, it's so been acknowledged. Most of the people that I know that are good Catholics and that are faith-based, like they don't, they, they still believe in, they have a relationship with God and spirituality. But most of the adults that I know, because of the stuff that's happened in the Catholic church are incredible. And I don't just mean like people my age, I mean like people,

my parents age that are just so, uh, it's like you, you can't look at that power structure and go, this should continue. This is, this is going great. They've handled stuff great and it should continue.

There's, there are very few people that feel that way. Right. Cause it's just so, what a horrible thing. It's not that you can't give people absolute power like that no no not at all especially that access that access to families but but i have to say this too like there are priests in my in saint vincent's that are some

of the best people i've ever met absolutely and it's just that kind of like it's almost like the bad ones steal the good yes the goodwill from the good ones definitely um because those And it's just that kind of like, it's almost like the bad ones steal the goodwill from the good ones. Definitely. Because those ones, it's like, what a great effect they have on people's lives. Yes. That's how it all works. Definitely. So, okay, so, yeah, so this is way before any of these things came to light. So at Sunday Mass, after Irene's funeral, just to show you

how protected priests were, the priest told the congregation that he knew there were rumors that a priest was involved in Irene's murder and he said, quote, it is impossible that a priest would commit a crime like this. Don't speak of it. Don't even let yourself think it.

He said that himself? To the congregation. Uh-huh yeah right um in late april uh detectives drained the irrigation canal where they had found irene's body and on the bottom was a light green eastman coda slide viewer with a long black cord so like a slide viewer. Yeah. Like a picture viewer. Like one of these? Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. Yeah, but like to the wall. Oh, okay. Like a slide show.

Yeah. Thing. Yeah. We call those Coda slide viewers at our house. You know. There is a photo of it online if you look it up. I mean like of the actual one. So it's got a long cord on it.

It's at the bottom of the irrigation canal Where they think her body was thrown in And they also find a candelabra That belonged to the church John Fite is like Oh yeah I bought that slide thing Last summer He's like oh yeah that was mine

And that candelabra belongs to the church So what he probably strangled her with And what he probably hit her with a fucking head with is at the bottom of the fucking canal and he raises his fucking hand and is like that's mine wow yeah because kind of in the confidence of knowing no one can do anything about it who fucking yeah maybe who knows so finally the priest sits down with the detectives in early may. He provides a, of course, meticulous account of his actions on Easter weekend. He says that he had counseled Irene in the Sacred Heart Rectory. He said, yeah, I totally did that because she had some information she wanted to give me that was private.

So I brought her. That's why I brought her in there. Because the confession booth, which is a muffled closet that no one can hear from the outside outside of wasn't private enough she could only scream her confession is the problem jesus no uh he saw her leave though at whatever time and then he had these like dumb excuses for why he had cuts on his hand and he's like and goodbye polygraph tests implicate him in both irene's murder and the the attack on Maria Guerrera a couple weeks earlier And in August Father Fight Is indicted for assault

With intent to rape Maria Guerrera Oh shit yeah The jury though motherfucking Deadlocks and the proceedings End in a mistrial and so Rather than face a second trial In 1962 Father Fight pleads no contest To reduce charges of aggravated assault.

Gets fined $500. And that's it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Takes that right out of the... Goodbye. He takes it right out of the church bucket. What do they call it?

The collection plate. Oh. I'm losing all of my terminology there you go i mean jesus christ that's the guy jesus christ like jesus can see and hear you if you're trying to rape people in church clearly yeah you fucking lunatic yeah so it's now alleged that the district attorney that the district attorney at the time and church leaders cut a deal to stop the investigation into John Fite to protect the reputation of the church. Also, most elected officials at the time in the, it's the Hildego none other than fucking Senator John F. Kennedy is running for president that year, who is a fucking Catholic. That's right.

There's never been a Catholic president before. There's only one other Catholic that had ever been a nominee for president in one of the major parties he had lost. Dewey? Was it Dewewey i don't remember i didn't even write it down no it that wasn't an honest question i wouldn't have known oh um and anti catholic prejudice is fucking big time so they're like we need kennedy to win we're all fucking catholics and let's not give them a reason to hate catholics oh okay so like political for political reasons yeah including jfk being fucking elected wow and like you know it's texas it's a big fucking place god that's so funny to think i just always it's just my own weird bias like i i used to think

everyone was catholic i when i was a kid that i just assumed everyone was catholic that's so interesting was there a lot of cat well you went to was Catholic. Well, you went to a Catholic school. I went to a Catholic school, but also our town was just small and mostly Christian. Although, then later on I learned that there was a big bunch of... Petaluma was like one of the

biggest receivers of immigrants after World war ii oh of uh jewish um people who are running from the war refugees thank you where do they live now they still live there there's jewish there's a couple temples in petaluma yeah okay because i think one or two of the families had like chicken farms. So they're like, everybody go out and work on, go work on the chicken ranch. Very cool. All right.

Yeah. Interesting. That could be a lie. No. Nope. You said it. I believe it. I'm almost positive I read that somewhere.

It's true. It feels so true. It feels really good in my heart. Great. Okay. So basically that means no murder charges are ever filed against father fight and shortly after the killing the church transfers him to a far away monastery so in the 60s he spent some time at a treatment center for troubled

priests in new mexico and at monasteries in multiple states hold hold the phone please i will not uh i want to go to a treatment center for troubled priests and kick them all in the dick right the horror movie that needs to be written out of that i mean like the children come and attack and kill them all oh my god it's like children of the corn but at a fucking monastery for troubled quote troubled trouble priests where it's revenge the children come out of the fields it's called here in trouble peace priests you're in trouble you're in trouble i heard what you did this past summer right said jesus said jesus to the lord that's fucked up who everyone in that neighborhood where that place was was just like move away well remember

when we watched um what was the really great documentary in on netflix over the summer keepers yeah and they and he went and visited the house where all of the priests had gotten sent to and they lived and they were all child molesters and shit yeah keepers is still fucking great everyone should watch it it's so good listen if you want to have a binge weekend of terrible shit yeah you should watch deliver us from evil which you just need to you need to watch it's historical information that you need to know about it's just fucking life lessons and you just need to like calm your pessimism a little bit optimism iism, I was going to say. Well, also, it's that thing of,

it feels like a very new cultural thing where it's like everybody's got to get real with the fact that true sociopaths and psychopaths move in this world in exactly these unexpected ways. They are baseball coaches. They are priests. They move into their boys they manipulate yes and they're good at it they're good at it you're not and you need to get okay with that yes you got you got to if you are a single parent you got to keep your eye double peeled you got to triple

check all the people that want to be in your child's life all that stuff which we're saying that to people who know it by heart i mean mean, like that. Yeah, but you forget that shit, man. Like when it's you and your people and this, you know, a guy you're dating. Yeah, of course, it's fine. You know what I mean? It's like, of course, you don't think about it in terms of your own life. You think about it outside of you. Yes. It's just so it's I remember reading that Sports Illustrated thing about how many baseball

coaches like little league coaches were pedophiles and it's just the most frightening and insane thing i want to read that it's you got to read it it's insane i'm pretty sure it was the cover sports illustrated like 10 years ago oh my god i need to read that it's so crazy because it's then they're they're in the lives they're right there with all the sports and everything's dude and sports and couldn't be safer and games and we need to go to this and practices. And then they then that's how they select the ones who don't have anybody that's going to come and beat the shit out of them. If they do anything to the kid, they like that's how they spot vulnerable children and people who are. I mean, it's just the most fucked up thing.

Very awful. Also, OK, also the movie Spotlight Which came out recently Is about that too So have a nice binge weekend And then watch Bob's Burgers And Big Mouth To get yourself to feel better Yes, Big Mouth is amazing

New Mexico, Monasteries Oh, here's fun At one point Here's fun here's fun at one point here's fun here's a here's fun here's fun at one point he served as a supervisor charged with clearing priests for assignments to churches so the priest who got sent to the fucking you're you're a terrible person get out of this town they're gonna fucking murder you yeah the attempted rapist priest they sent him to this these places in his monasteries and our fucking friend john fight was on the fucking clearinghouse to let them go back

into the goddamn world. Good. This motherfucker. Healthy. Yeah. Just good decisions all around being made. Everybody. At every level.

We have one open seat. Who should we fill with? John Fite. Wait, is the devil not available? Okay, then. Right. Is the devil not available? Okay, then.

Right. So one of the men that he held clear for parish was James Porter, who isn't the guy from Deliver Us From Evil, but could be. A child molester convicted of assaulting more than 100 victims who was a priest. He was like, get him back in there. Yeah. You're in the game. You fucking dick. Okay.

John Fite left the priesthood in 1972 and moved to phoenix worked as an insurance salesman got married had kids and grandkids lives a fucking normal goddamn life whoa meanwhile irene's parents nick and josefina garza they both passed away in the 90s without ever seeing anyone prosecuted for irene's murder but they were assured by people in the church that father fight um who they always fucking suspected would be punished by the church if they found out anything had been had been done and they were assured that this was a bigger sentence handed than any court could hand down and so they're like okay great because they still fucking believe in the Catholic Church.

Right. Because they were fucking Catholics. Well, yeah. So, April 2002. Let's jump ahead. Okay. All right. Good.

42 years after the murder of Irene Garza, a former monk named Dale Tashney, who had left the priesthood more than 30 years earlier to marry, suddenly he gets a fucking conscience. Oh. He says that in the summer of 1963 he was asked to counsel john fight while he while john stayed at the monastery where uh this guy dale was a fucking priest monk uh during their six months of counseling

john fight told tashnee of the night that Irene died. This guy called the fucking investigator and was like, let me tell you something. He told him that Father Fite had asked her to come to the church rectory and had heard her confession. And after the confession he had restrained Irene,

maybe bound and gagged her. He had fondled her breasts and before he returned to the sanctuary to hear confessions, he had moved her to the rectory basement. And later that evening, he moved her to another location.

Then on Easter Sunday, so she's still alive, then on Easter Sunday, he put Irene in a bathtub and placed a bag over her head. And as he was leaving the bathroom, he heard her say, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And then Tashni said when he came back later on that day

or early evening, he found her dead in the bathtub. And then that night, he put her in a car and took her and dropped her off along a roadside where there was a canal. Tashni had kept it to himself out of a sense of religious obligation for more than four decades. He didn't tell anyone. It's like he confessed to him and you can't. In terms of being a priest that hears confession, you're not allowed to repeat it

i mean i feel so grateful that he came forward and said stuff but at the same time it's like some this person this man murdered this woman it doesn't that's then that's not a priest then that's not a priest anymore the man who murdered someone is not, doesn't get to have that. No, but everybody gets it. It's not just for priests. It's, that's the, that's like, they're talking to God through you and you don't get to intervene because they're asking for forgiveness. And so you have to be that no matter what somebody says to you as a priest, you have to say you're forgiven. He was counseling him. So it wasn't confession. I mean, I don't know if technically, yeah. Well, I bet you they mean, I don't know if technically. Yeah.

Well, I bet you they'd say it was just for the protection. Right. But the other thing is, wasn't she found brutally beaten? Yeah. So that's bullshit. She was beaten and raped while unconscious. So clearly he left some shit out. Or they just tell you everything in this article.

Yeah. It's too much. But I would bet you that like he's basically saying, well, I just did a couple of things. I walked away and she died. And then she's, I mean, it's unfortunate. Like, he's basically telling the story to this other priest. Like, too bad that happened as opposed to you violently fucking attack this woman. Well, one of the things that Tashnee said was he didn't show what I would consider to be compunction or sorrow or grief or anything like that.

So he had kept it to himself. And then at this point in 2002, he's in his 70s, and he had a change of heart. And he was like, I'll fucking testify. Like, let's do this. Wow. Yeah. Which is incredible. So Texas Rangers then begin to reinvestigate the case.

When he's contacted, Fight fight who's now 69 year old says that man doesn't exist anymore and he won't say anything else like the man who who raped and murdered a woman uh-huh yeah he does dude yeah he does sorry he's in you so Rangers also interviewed father O'Brien who back then was, I saw scratches on his hands. And he tells the Rangers that a few months after the murder fight, he had confronted fight about whether he had killed Irene and the priest had told him everything. So he too was like, Yep, I know everything. I'll fucking testify. Oh, shit. And yeah, he'll tell everything. So, and I would say this, too. This was back. I think that people very rarely broke that. Like, if I'm telling you, if I'm giving you confession, you're, like, basically, you have to forgive me in the end. You don't get to say anything. That's in, like, you know, police TV shows all the time.

Is that not true anymore? Well, no, I'm saying, I think back then, no one would ever break it. Whereas nowadays, I think it's like Now everyone's seeing The reason that that rule was put into place Maybe not have been for the best reasons Right Or that there were many more people that would exploit it Than anyone would expect

Yeah, that's true Am I getting Catholic defensive? Sorry That's okay So then in July 2002 The Brownsville herald ran a front page story on irene's murder and the suspicion about john fight and so hildigo county district attorney renee guerrera was asked if he planned to pursue an indictment in the case because they were like we have all this fucking evidence now including two people who he told murdered Irene and they're willing to testify.

And this guy, Rene, was like, said, quote, can it be solved? Well, I guess if you believe that pigs can fly, anything is possible. And then he said, why would anyone be haunted by her death? She died. Her killer got away. So he fucking flippantly. Who is this guy? This guy, Rene Guerrera.

He's a fucking Hildigo. No, wait. Hidalgo? Thank you. Oh, my God. I only say that because of the movie starring Viggo Mortensen about him and his horse. Hidalgo. Hidalgo, yeah.

Thank you, Jesus. Yeah. So, at the time. So, then he got all this negative publicity and he's like, okay, fine. Sorry, he was the prosecutor, though? He was the district attorney. Oh, OK, OK. So he got all this negative publicity because her fucking family is still alive.

Her parents aren't, but the rest of her family is like, we fucking care that she died. Yeah. So he in 2004, he asked he has two of his prosecutors present the evidence to a grand jury to indict John Fight. But they don't fucking call either of those priests to testify the ones who he told that he killed them and so of course in 2004 the jury declined to indict him and no build the case so that was the chance to fucking finally before john fight dies to get him held responsible for the murder of irene and those two priests had said that they would testify.

They wanted to. They were waiting by the fucking phone to be called up to testify. And they just didn't do it. They didn't call them. And it turns out, of course, Rene Guerrero was Catholic. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, 10 fucking years later, in 2014, there's a district attorney's race in Hidalgo County.

And finally, Rene gets fucking beat by Ricardo Rodriguez. And in his race, he promised he would reexamine the case of elected. Oh, shit. So fucking Ricardo is elected. Wow. Great. They spent a year and two months reexamining the case and all the evidence and more than 57 fucking years after the murder of irene garza 83 year old john fight is finally fucking arrested in arizona for

first degree murder former monk dale fucking tashney 88 years old fucking testifies dang it 88 years old now when you say monk does does it say anything else about him being a monk? There's just a photo of him with that hair. You know what I'm saying? He's got the robes and the hair. And you're like, oh, honey, you must have been dedicated. Because, my God. He looks like he's on space balls.

I'm just trying to figure out what that is. If he's like a Christian brother, what like his specific deal was. I'm sure it's very involved, but I don't understand. Okay. I just knew that it was like a monk, but he was like, but it was like priests were hanging out with him. Yeah. I don't know. He's just in a different kind of like set up.

Catholic thing. Yeah. Okay. Maybe he made wine. The hair though. Yeah. My God my god so dale what's up 88 year old dale testifies against him december 8th what's the date today the 12th yes december fucking 8th 2017 fucking four days ago oh shit yeah after a six-day trial in the Hidalgo County Courthouse in Edinburgh, a jury fucking convicted John Fight.

Whoa. Now 85 year old ex-priest of murdering Irene Garza. And he received a life sentence in prison. Oh my God. Yeah. This just fucking came out. That's incredible. 1960 is when it happened.

And fucking, what are we, 2017? are we 2017 yeah she was still alive today irene would be 83 years old in a letter written to a friend uh right before she died she stated that she's happier than she's ever been and said to her friend remember the last time we talked i told you i was afraid of death well i think i think I'm cured. You see, I've been going to communion and mass daily, and you can't imagine the courage and faith and happiness it's given me. And that's the story of the murder of Irene Garza by motherfucker John Fite. Wow. I can't believe that ended well.

I know, right? It never happens in the Catholic Church. Every time it's a Catholic Church story. Yeah. It frustrates you. It disgusts you. Well, called cases, too. Goes crazy.

Yeah. So he's like in one of those walkers in court that are also chairs. Yeah. You know, that you see. Yeah. Trying to look all old. And a couple of things he said when he got arrested were like, I don't understand.

This happened in 1960. Like, his excuse of I don't understand this was happening now. This was so long ago. And this woman says to him, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Like, he's trying to play it off like this was so long ago. Yeah. Why are you guys making a big deal about this? Yeah, exactly.

He's acting like a confused old man. Yeah. And he's a fucking sexual predator and murderer well also it doesn't matter how old he is it doesn't matter how old he is it doesn't matter what his opinion about it is a grandpa or whatever his confusion is not relevant you you already were confused that's why you're like this so you your opinion about it and how you see it is not valid because according to you, no one's life matters.

And any woman is an object you get to grab. Some woman who died in 1960, who cares? No. No. A lot of people care. A lot of people care. And a lot of people are tired of people like that guy exploiting positions of not just power, but automatic trust.

Yeah. It's that thing. That's what but automatic trust. Yeah. It's that thing. That's what's so gross. Yeah. Can you imagine going into a church or like, I can't imagine going into a church and getting a creepy vibe of like, oh no, the guy that works here is scaring me. Yeah. That's the exact opposite of how churches are supposed to work.

Well, there should be no such thing as automatic trust. Yeah. I mean, it sucks. to work well there should be no such thing as automatic trust yeah i mean it sucks but even you know you're fucking pediatrician or you're fucking you know you're um what's it called anything there's just there's no such thing anymore right and there never was we just let it happen right yeah it's it's okay to be just be. Be careful and thank God for the internet. And checky, checky, checky. Check everyone's fucking record.

Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. Such a good story. Thank you. Hi. Hi. That was an intense episode.

I know. Yeah, there's a lot of feelings. Anything good this week for you? I guess it was so fun to do those live shows. We had, I had such a good time. You can say we, I did too. Speaking for you. But like, it's just such a joy to have that be a job.

It's insane. Because I'm always prepared. Like, I really hate leaving my house and I hate leaving my dogs and I get a little stressy for that, but it's always just that we have so much fun. And then there's people that just like give us really nice presence and say really nice things. I,

one thing that I guess gets me is a lot of people talk to me about my mom. Yeah. And it's like, it's brought up a lot. It gets brought up a lot of like, it's a young women who are like, I'm a psych nurse. Yeah. And it's like, it's brought up a lot. It gets brought up a lot of like, it's a young women who are like, I'm a psych nurse. Yeah.

I'm studying to be a nurse, but there's a lot of my mom passed away recently too. And you really helped me. Yeah. Just by talking about it. Yeah, exactly. It's,

it's, I don't know. It's, um, you know, it's, it's cool when we get to go out and hear from people about like the meaning of things because to us it's like i just go oh well i just did a uh a very interesting murder case in a

mediocre manner in our way and then we talked about a bunch of bullshit it's like i don't know it just is very meaningful it's just like such a nice feeling yeah you know we have like lots of friends we don't know as we say at the end of every show it's like we thank you guys for letting us do this as a job the two of us are fucking blown away by the fact that our lives have turned into this incredible thing because of this podcast that we started on a fucking whim it's super weird it's super weird it is and fun we didn't expect this we are in awe of all of you guys who are like these incredible people and p and like showing up like i barely leave my house to do anything so like when i stand there and like it's like a theater full of people who have all went and bought tickets and showed up. And some have signs and some have...

It's just crazy. Funny shirts they made. Yeah. Cookies. And crafts and mugs. Yeah. It's just really... I just feel super lucky.

Every time we come home from a trip or anytime we go on a fucking trip for the show, it's mind-boggling. Yeah. It's so fun. And yeah. Yeah, it's so fun. So I think we're about to end the year with a hundredth episode. So I guess maybe it's just thank you guys for letting us do this incredible thing.

This year has been fucking bananas and awesome and we're honored. It's incredible. It's beautiful. We fucking appreciate it so much. We really do. And thank you and thanks for I don't know thanks for being thanks for thanks for liking it yeah it's weird it is what's your thing that's the same thing i'm gonna go samsies share are we gonna do shares we're gonna shame shame it we're gonna shame we're

gonna shame share shame share uh okay cool i love it. I do too. Well, then stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis? Want a cookie? That was a definitive yes. You want a cookie? Want a cookie?