My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - MFM Minisode 186

Episode Date: August 3, 2020

This week’s hometowns include a mysterious murder and a paranormal rescue story.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. See, it's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder, the mini-soad. It's the mini-episode.

It's the short one that comes on Monday at the beginning of the week. You remember? Remember today's Monday? Sorry about that. I don't have a happy one at the end, do you? So I'll go first. Yes. Do you have a good one?

Like a good ender? Yes. Okay. This one says, my queens, spooky quarantine. Y'all are amazing. Stephen Mustache is the eighth wonder of the world, yada, yada, yada. Let's get right into it. They said it like, Stephen Mustache is Stephen's last name.

Stephen Mustache. Stephen Mustache. He's my favorite art, 80s art band, lead singer. I'm from South Bend, Indiana, home of Notre Dame, but this story takes place in the next town over Elkhart, Indiana, home of the RV capital of the world. I really need to get out of this state. That sounds rad. I want an RV.

My boyfriend's family grew up here too, but now his badass aunt lives in LA being a movie producer. You may have seen her Netflix original documentary, Knock Down the House with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. When speaking to her recently about my boyfriends and my passion for true crime, she asked if we had heard of the cold case story of the woman who vanished from her yard in Elkhart in the mid-80s. We very much had not heard the story and through her account of it and reading articles I found online, I learned of the heartbreaking and mysterious story of Ada Herodine.

Ada was a 39-year-old mother of two living in an upscale Elkhart neighborhood in 1985. Every other day, when her then-9-year-old son got off the bus, she would be waiting outside of her house for him. When her son got off the bus that day on May 8th at 3.20pm, his mother was not there to greet him, nor was she in the house when he went inside. The crazy part is that Ada was seen only 10 minutes earlier outside before her son arrived home. Those 10 minutes will forever be a mystery about what truly happened to Ada and who had

the senseless mind to take her away from her family. Unfortunately, three years later, her remains were found, located only 20 miles from her house by a mushroom hunter, she was confirmed to be beaten to death, and was identified through her wedding ring that was still found on her all those years later. Heartbreakingly, her husband passed in 1993 from a brain aneurysm, and her case still remains unsolved to this day. The case was reopened back in 2013, but no new updates have been discovered. I wish I had more information, but tragically, there may never be an answer to many heartbreaking

cold cases in the world. Like the heinous Delphi murders of 2017, which took place only 45 minutes away from my college. Thank you for all that you do and arrest the murders of Breonna Taylor, SSDGM, Emma. I mean, I don't, it's so, I don't like cold cases. I don't like the idea that a mom disappeared from her house and no one knows why and her body was found three years later. It's the most scary, it's everyone's worst nightmare, whether it's your, your the mom and your child no longer as a mom, whether it's that you're a child and your mother just

one day isn't there. I mean, it's worse. It's so heartbreaking. I just want, we say it about every single one, but it's the worst. Okay. Let's see. This one, the subject line is haunted lake question mark question mark question mark question mark.

Hello, MFM fam. First thanks to my partner for getting me hooked on this podcast through quarantine. My hometown story is actually a case from my grandmother's hometown of Union, South Carolina, which is about 30 miles from my hometown of Greenville, South Carolina. I grew up visiting the house she grew up in and her stomping grounds. I did research and want to credit Wikipedia investigation discovery, the LA times and my family for originally telling me about the story. This is just a shout out episode.

This is, this is so good. I'm, they're listing their always list your sources. That's right. Nice. Okay. Here we go. On, on October 25th, 1994, Susan Smith reported her two sons ages two years and 13 months missing, claiming that black man had car jacked her vehicle over the next nine days.

Smith provided vague descriptions of the alleged black man that stole her car and children. Police also noticed inconsistencies in her story. On November 3rd, 1994, Susan Smith confessed and led police to the exact spot in John D. Long Lake where she had rolled her car with both children inside. It's believed that Smith was having an affair with a socialite in town and he did not want kids, even her kids. The week before the crime, he sent her a letter ending the affair, citing her children as the reason not to continue.

She claims there was no motive and she was not in a right mind state at the time. Her defense psychiatrist diagnosed her with dependent personality disorder. She was sentenced to life in prison for two counts of murder in 1995. She's eligible for parole in 2024. Upon further research, I found that John D. Long Lake is actually a man-made lake named after a former KKK member, Confederate flag supporter and South Carolina state senator. Being located in a heavily Republican town and county, there's still no talk of renaming the lake.

Also, a total of 18 people have died at this lake. Oh my God. That's a ton. Seven of those deaths occurred two years after the Smith murders when a family came to visit the lake and newly built memorial for the two boys. Two members of the family were outside of the car when it rolled into the lake. Is this true? They drowned with the five others that were inside the car while trying to rescue them.

When the car was recovered from the lake, it was found to still be in park. Creepy, right? Is the lake haunted? Does this problematic John D. Long Ghost character preside over the lake, taking lives to the other side? All questions that have no answers. In the nineties, my mother was fresh out of college, newly married and had two children. My great-grandmother forbade my mother from driving past that lake in their town.

She was worried that my mother would be the next victim. Who knows? Thanks again for all you do. I begin school for my master's in forensic science in August and maybe one day you'll be covering a murder case that I analyzed evidence in the lab for. Best hunter. Wow. That is tragedy upon tragedy.

And actually, I feel like I want to look it up, but I feel like I remember that second drowning. Stephen, did you look it up? You did, Susan Smith, right? You've done it before. No, no. Who was the one you did? The one who was laughing?

Yeah, this was in 96 is when seven people died when their car rolled down the boat ramp into the lake. Yes. Holy shit. So, okay. Thank you, Stephen. I just wanted to make sure that that wasn't... I sounded very suspicious when I said that.

So, you know what? This one was the one where she shot all three of her kids. Remember? That's Dan Downs. That's the one. That's Dan Downs from, I believe, Portland or like the Portland area. That's one of the first ones I ever did because that was one of the first and rule books I ever read.

So awful. What a horrible, I mean, what a... After that second drowning, I do now remember reading about that second drowning three years later whenever Hunter said it was and just being like, oh my fucking god, I don't know about the part that it was still in park. That seems like... But I mean, any detail about a second horrible group drowning at the same lake is so scary. How do you go to that lake on a picnic in the summer and just be like, doodadoo? I wouldn't.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't either. I wouldn't recommend it. I mean, everything about this lake sounds like it sucks. Sorry lake. Okay. This is just called hometown story, hi everyone, don't want to miss anyone, so this will do. I've never been one to do something like this, but thought this story was too cool not to

share. I was born and raised in the North Jersey town of Morristown, New Jersey. Morristown is a... New Jersey. What did I say? No, no, no. They just said New Jersey twice in a row like... New Jersey. In the New Jersey town of Morristown, New Jersey. Morristown is a super cute and diverse town with a picturesque town center and lots to

do. This is from the tourism board from Morristown, New Jersey. When growing up in Morristown, the town's rich history is drilled into our brains while at school. Just a couple cool facts, Elizabeth Shuler was staying in Morristown when Alexander Hamilton was courting her. Washington had headquarters here during the Revolutionary War, and Peter Dinklage was born here.

Hey. Hey. But one historic story that was not taught in school, but we all know is the murder of the Sayre family and subsequent hanging of Antoine Leblanc. Antoine Leblanc was a French immigrant who arrived in Morristown in the mid-19th century. He was hired by the Sayre family as a handyman, but Leblanc was from a well-to-do European family and didn't like his meager work in the US. I mean, who among us, asshole?

Yeah, for real. Only a couple weeks later, he murdered Mr. and Mrs. Sayre as well as their servant, Phoebe. And he took any valuables he could with him and frantically ran away, headed towards New York City. Stupidly, he left a trail of stolen items as he tried to escape. Because of this, the murder scene was quickly discovered and he was found at a tavern in Hackensack about 30 miles away. Leblanc was subsequently tried and sentenced to be hanged.

The story gets worse, though. After being hanged in the town center, might I add, his body was taken to Dr. Canfield's office where they conducted experiments by hooking his body to batteries and trying to resurrect him. Still gets worse. His skin was then sent to a local tannery where a bunch of wallet's, purse's, book jackets, etc. were made as keepsakes. Imagine hearing this story as a child.

This all sounds like a tall tale, but in the 90s, a death mask of his face and wallet made of human skin said to be his was found in a local collector's house after his death. I believe it's stored at the police department now. They say that all the, quote, keepsakes are scattered through Morristown and the surrounding area. Maybe heirlooms kept by long-standing local families. Grandma's dead, everyone. Here's what you get and here's a fucking face.

You get a people book. But we're a murderer. Jesus. And then she writes, and done. Sorry it was so long, but it's such a good murder slash local history slash legend story. I've been listening to you since the beginning and always get excited to hear new episodes every week. And I guess I'll do one of these.

Stay sexy and don't buy antique wallets at garage sales. Francisco, like San Francisco, but without the sand and ending with an A. Thank you. I would have called you Francesca. So I appreciate it. New Jersey. New Jersey. Francisco. New Jersey.

Like New Jersey, but San Francisco. Wow. That was, yeah, those ones, it's so nice when they're from the 1700s and we can just go like, oh, people back then deny that it's happening to this day. But I do think that I'm pretty sure when they say death mask, they mean they do a mold of the face when they're dead. It's not a human face. I was just like, they skinned his face and, okay, no, that makes more sense.

It's not the top sounds of the lambs. I was going, shrunk his head. Act three. No, no. I'm pretty sure. Please correct me, New Jersey, if I'm wrong. Everyone in New Jersey will let you know. Looking for a better cooking routine?

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I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca

slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. We're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston.

Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Okay, subject line of this one, dump stories for murdering nos and treasure hunters.

Dear Karen, George and Steven and Menagerie of Pets, are we still doing dump stories? Because I have a pretty good one. In the 70s, I was a little girl and my dad worked for L&N Railroad in Louisville, Kentucky when they went on strike to make ends meet during the strike. He got a job working at a local dump. The workers were allowed to take home anything that interested them on your first day when you're going through walking through and then the boss just gestures across the dump. Anything of this is yours.

But it's not like they're going to have a lost and found problem. That makes sense. Just fucking take it. It's already someone's trash. Just throw it out there. Yeah, exactly. Whether it's a couch or, okay, but I just like to phrase anything that interested them. And my dad brought home various treasures.

My favorites were from a school that was being demolished. I was three and thrilled to have my very own chalkboard and school desk. That's amazing. Oh my God. Remember when you just wanted shit like that as a kid? Like your own real desk. Okay. So I think I've bragged to you about this before, but the first house we lived in in

Petaluma on Eucalyptus Avenue, there were two small chicken barn things, little chicken coops, I'm trying to say, in our side field. And so me and my sister each got our own playhouse. So they were like, they were probably like six feet tall and then like 15 feet long. Little wooden chicken coops that all the chickens had been cleared out of. And it was just like whatever you wanted to do in there was fine. Every kid's dream. Right.

Don't touch the razor wire. Have fun. Try to avoid the rusty nails. But so my dad would come and knock on the door like we would end up playing in one and you know, whatever. It was like, this is the schoolhouse. This is the house, whatever. And my dad would come and knock on the door and pretend to be a delivery man and just

bring us shit to like decorate our houses with. And one time it was the backseat of his of his Volkswagen bug. So it was like we had a couch all of a sudden. The coolest. It's that was the best because it also it had this side armrest. Oh my God. It was that old of a bug. And then the other time he brought us each our own school desk.

I don't know where he got them. He may have seen them in like someone else's front driver or whatever. But having our own school desks at home, I don't know what happened. It made me go insane. It was my favorite favorite. You were spoiled as a kid, obviously. I was spoiled with garbage just like this person and their dad. Chicken soups and garbage.

Spoiled. When you live out in the country. This is why Karen is the way she is is because she was just spoiled as a kid. So much garbage all around me piled up around my feet like I was the little princess of garbage. Okay. Oh, she said about that school desk. The cool kind with the swivel chair and the top that open to store your books.

It's a kind we had. Yes. What I'm talking about. Yes. It's called the dump special. Dad loved history and geography looking at maps and reading about various places around the world. He was the only worker who asked to bring home books and was and was teased by his new coworkers

for even asking. Oh my God. One day he picked up. This is where I get good. One day he picked up a very heavy box of books that came from an old house and placed it in his truck to go through that evening. After dinner, he gets the box out of his truck, pulls the books out one by one and starts flipping through them.

When a gold coin drops out of one onto the books, immediately my brother claims the coin for his own and my dad says he can have it but not spend it explaining coin collecting to us. He picks up and flips through a few more of the books. Just as my brother and I are about to lose interest in the contents of the box, he picks up the last book and a strange look comes across his face. It turns out there are at least 50 more gold coins in the bottom of the box. Telling no one what he's found, he goes back to work the next day, heads straight to the

area where the contents of the old house were tossed and finds three more boxes containing collectible coins. Oh my God. Oh my God. It's a full-on jackpot. Who threw that away? Like the guy died and that's that thing when old people start hiding shit around their house and then they die, don't tell anybody.

He quietly placed them all in his truck and brought them home. Over the years, my dad collected many more coins after my parents divorced in the 90s. He remarried into my knowledge, never sold any of the coins. Dad passed away in 2009 and he left everything to his second wife with instructions to give certain items to my brother and myself. Dad also collected arrowheads that he found throughout his life while farming and specified that my brother should have those. He has thousands and once had an archeologist come to our house who told him his collection

was quote, museum-worthy. Oh my God. So my brother requested that my stepmom let me have the coin collection. She claimed that she had not come across any coins and had no idea what he was talking about. I seriously think she might have donated the damn coins to Goodwill. Oh no. Oh, it hurt.

I just wanted to know how much they were worth. Yeah. This is like an Antiques Roadshow moment right here that we're being robbed of. Totally. He put his coins on display, just kept them in radio boxes with the books he brought home from the dump because he thought if he were ever robbed no one would look there or steal books. That's so true.

It is. Robbers aren't going to go and steal a bunch of your books. No. I've been looking for Confederacy of Dunstice. Oh, I hear this is good. So I guess someone else may have a treasure story about finding dad's coins in a box of old books at the Goodwill, which kind of tickles me but I know my dad would be mad as hell.

Yeah. It's like cute and sweet but like that should have been your fucking moment. Yeah. And also just love to find out what the worth of those coins are. Love and peace to you all. Bridgette, Louisville, Kentucky. So anyone in the greater Kentucky area, if you've ever found gold coins in a box at the Goodwill.

Don't tell anyone. Keep that shit to yourself. You do not write in. Don't tell us. It's M-Y-O-B. Don't say a word. That is fucking great. That was great.

We're going to need more like that. Okay. This is my last one. It's not happy. Okay. This one just says buckle up ladies. This is fucked up. Nice.

I was in my mid-20s single and living in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was casually dating on OK Cupid that is tragic in and of itself and it's not. You do you. And I met a guy named Brady. We talked for a few weeks and then other and other than being a little overtly sexual, he seemed cool. Oh my God. I mean, hey, but it again, there you are again, though, you are on OK Cupid.

So it's hard to red flag a thing. That's what you kind of showed up at least to be in the ballpark of. Yeah. And like you have to go in expecting a couple redder flags than you would have if someone set you up with someone, right? Like definitely. I would love to know the how quickly this guy became sexual if it was immediately like the shocker fingers where you're like, hey, hey, bro, dial it down.

Oh, the doctor's shocker. Remember when that like that every high school student did that in pictures and it was all like, no, I remember looking up. We're not fucking telling you what it is. If you don't know, this is very early blog mid 2000s where it was like, I remember being a horrified late 20s person going, look at these teens doing the shocker. That's so disturbing. Oh my God, we're so prude, except we're a little overly sexual.

Yeah. OK. We're hiding it. Oh, we're trying to hide our over sexuality. Everybody's a little overly sexual on the Internet, right? Yes. That's what we're saying. I was a little naive at the time and didn't think anything of it.

Anyway, we eventually decide to meet. We meet for lunch at a little Italian restaurant in my neighborhood and from the get go, I was creeped out. There was no definitive reason why he was nice. He worked just like his pictures and was generally an OK seaming guy, but I just had a feeling. After lunch, he invited me to go for a drive to, quote, someplace peaceful. And because I apparently have zero instincts for self preservation, I went along. We ended up at this isolated spot by the river in a part of town I was unfamiliar with.

I still had this nagging feeling that something was off about him. I finally got up the courage to tell him I needed to go home because I left my oven on. That's where this is the excuse I use. What the fuck, self? It's not the worst. No, I think there's an element of immediacy to that excuse, but it's also very benign. So it's not going to get a true creep angry.

There's nothing you can do about it. Totally. And it sounds so fake that why would you pretend? Why would you lie about that? I bet that person's acting was on point in that moment when they had to deliver that line. That guy was used to people being creeped out by him, so he didn't even think of it. Because you know what I was just thinking is what dude on a first okay, cute, but date

is like, let me drive you to an isolated location. That's it. It's on him to not be that creepy. Totally. Like make that comfortable. It's not on you to be trusting. It's not, you don't have to extend yourself that far when he's not even being standard, wait until three dates, play of this shit.

Disrespectful, totally. It is. I'm going to listen to this because he reluctantly took me home. I told him later that I wasn't interested in dating him anymore and he was super shitty about it. I got a great messages about what a stupid whore I was and how I'd never find anybody as great as him. So sounds great.

Sounds great. Yeah. I remember being scared at the time, but eventually the message stopped and I forgot. Fucking take that's so terrifying when you're in the middle of that man. Yeah. So a couple of years and a friend sends me a news article about a man who was recently arrested for killing and beheading a man and his pregnant girlfriend before leading police on a chase and eventually killing himself.

When I saw the name and photo, I recognized Brady immediately and was physically sick. This was the creepy guy I went on a date with a few years previously. In fact, at least one of the photos featured in the article had also been used by Brady in his dating profile. Oh, my God. Yeah. This still gives me chills and I had to get up halfway through writing this to make sure my door is locked.

Thankfully, I moved away from Michigan and found a guy that I'm significantly more confident is not a murderer. Sounds like love. Stay sexy and don't get murdered in Michigan, Lauren. Hey, Lauren, I just want to say this, you were trying to give your instinct shit at the beginning of this. Yes. Your instincts were spot on and you got yourself home and you got yourself safe.

Do not in any way beat yourself up for that. That was you getting you out of that situation. You should be proud of yourself and your instincts, not that, you know, yeah, it's, you can't out instinct a fucking serial killer, but you followed your intuition and you should be proud of yourself. And trust that subconscious that serves up the oven's on excuse. It's so perfect. Yeah.

I have explosive diarrhea is a good excuse that you could use. But then you'd have to prove it. That's when a nice portrait mode picture comes in and it's nice to have one saved on your camera. It doesn't have to be yours. That's right. That's discussed. Yeah.

You can do it. You can do a Getty image. Pay that $150. Get the Getty. Ready for this one. Watermark out of there first. Yes. Lasties.

Great. The subject line here is, well, I think the subject line gives it away. So I'll just read it. Hi, friends. Hi. I think you're all so inspiring and wonderful and hope you are staying safe and sane. Anyway, let's get to it. This is long, but I think it's worth it.

Great. A little backstory. I was born on Spooky Halloween. So stupid. I hope Kristie Ward is happy that we say that so much on this podcast. That's hers. That is hers. And ever since I was little, I would have dreams of loved ones I never met, dreams of

things happening before they happened, and a strong connection to the quote, unquote other side. My grandpa died when I was a senior in high school. He was like my second father, and we were always super close. I was going out of town the weekend that he died. And as I was rushing to get my things together, I had an overwhelming feeling I needed to go see him. I called and called, and no one answered.

And I was running late for my flight while I never got to see him. And he passed that weekend. It's a guilt I always carry with me. When he died, my grandma really struggled and was about to give up all together. About a year later, I had this vivid dream of him. In the dream, I was walking up to their house. All the doors and windows were open and there was a bright light coming from inside. There was a breeze and I could hear wind chimes truly heavenly.

I walked into the home and he was sitting in his favorite chair, calm as can be. He looked up at me and smiled and said, when you wake up, I need you to check on your grandma. I can never keep her out of trouble. He told me he loved me and then I woke up. The following morning, I called and called my grandma and she didn't answer. I drove straight over to her house, knocked on the door, no answer. Normally, I would have left, assumed she was out. But because of the dream, I started to panic.

I went around the back, hopped the fence, only to find that she had fallen on the patio and was trying to crawl back inside. She had broken her hip in two places. Who knows what would have happened or how long it would have taken someone to find her. If my grandpa had not visited me in my dream, my grandma made a full recovery after and her accident made her realize that she still has more life to live. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Hell, yes we did.

Stay sexy and find someone who loves you and find someone who's love for you carries on after death. Madison, come on. One of the all time greats. That was gorgeous, Madison. I can never keep her out of trouble. That's what got me. I feel like Vince would say that about me.

Yeah, for real. And also that he's like, that's such a weird dream where he's all calm. He's just there not to figure out just to deliver a message. And to do it in a calming place that makes her feel like it's familiar, it's calming, says I love you at the end. And also what a lovely like that Madison was bummed that she missed him before he died. And that's a regret so many people carry with them. It's a decision.

Yeah, people that are like, oh, I'm going on this trip, but I'll see you soon. And it's people that they know they'll see again. And if they're wrong about that, then they have the grief of the death and then they also have this regret as if that was something they were supposed to be able to anticipate, which is again, don't do it to yourself. That's part of my anxiety. I feel like I have very meaningful goodbyes with anyone I talk to because I'm like, my anxiety is that you're going to die.

So I have to make sure I have that moment. Good. Or what? Yeah. But then it just makes me not sleep at night. So it's not positive. Right. Well, yeah, you're going to have to curb it at some point because you have to, if you're

going to do it, then you have to get the credit of having done it. Like you're actually being very considerate. Yeah. And when it does, you'll be three steps ahead of the game. That's what it's all about. That's it. Yeah. Nice batch this time, guys.

Yeah. Great job, guys. Send us your fucking letters. I love reading them every week when we get to pick them out. It's so fun. Gold, coins, and the dumps. Are you kidding me? That is the stuff life's made of.

Dump, treasure. Treasure. Please send us your treasure found stuff. Anything that you're interested in, please come to our dumps and pick it up or drop it off. We have weird family heirlooms, like a face, like a death mask. Sure. Tell us about that.

We want to hear that. Absolutely. Anything like that. Anything found in a dead relatives house that they forgot to, there's nothing better than it used to be back when the world was normal. Every once in a while, there would be that story of people donating a couch and it's filled with cash. That one.

Yeah. Those are my favorite. It's the best. Nothing better. All right. That's my favoritemurder.com. Thank you guys so much for listening. And stay sexy.

And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Bye. Elvis, you want a cookie? Thank you.