My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - MFM The Top 3: #3 - Episode 105 - Proclensity

Episode Date: July 25, 2019

The votes are in! Here's #3 of your top three favorite episodes: Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Christa Worthington and the case of Typhoid Mary.Original airdate: 01/25/2018See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Wake up. Hello. Good morning. Good morning and welcome to your favorite morning talk show. My favorite murder. The morning talk show that screams in your face to wake you up. Get down. Get down. Get up. Get up. Get down. Get back down. Get back up again. And then you're like, what do they want from me? We want just a couple crunches. Easy. Yeah. Simple. Just to wake you up. Fun. Fun and easy. Get the blood going. Yeah. Burpees. Fucking start burping. What if

burpees were not an exercise but just belching? I would be a fucking Olympian. You absolutely would. I would. You'd be internationally known. Are burpees the ones where you jump up and go down and to push up and jump up? Because I was thinking of Hercules, which is a cheerleading jump. Oh, God. Where you kind of look like a check. You turn your body into like a check mark. Check. And I was going to be like, wouldn't it work? It's such pain. Like, oh, and you mean your legs go forward. Check. One leg straight out. And then the other leg comes up in. Your knee comes to your chest. Don't do that. That's just back problems for your life. It's like this, but in the air. Okay. Take it from me. Everyone at home. I'm way up in the air.

She just, she just showed me one in the middle of the living room. It was amazing. Also, what am I talking about? I don't fucking know technically what a her key is. Like, you're a cheerleader? It's like I'm trying to get people to email us about things. I was a cheerleader, by the way. Oh my God. I was a song leader junior year of high school. Oh my God. Those were the ones that like did routine. Well, we are a small school, so we only had a certain amount of people anyway. But you know, we did dance routines to Janet Jackson's control. It's all about control. It's all about control. That's the only one I remember. Just that we had, you know, gloves that were white on the inside and blue on the outside. You're like blowing my mind. So then

you do a lot of this and you just switch it. Like a clown. White to blue. Like a mime, but white to blue. White blue, white blue. Oh, I've been like, and then one is this way, one is this way. So it's white blue. That's right. Then change it up. And then change it up. Five, six, seven, and eight. And then this is my favorite murder. Put your gloves up by your face. Are they whiter? Are they blue? Okay, this is one of my favorite parts about having this podcast is I get random texts from my beautiful friends who listen to it, who take the time to listen to it. Oh, wow. And then, but they sometimes can be months behind. So the other day, my beautiful friend, Sam Pancake, that's his real name, who is, who plays Dorothy in the live Golden Girls

that I told you about and love so much. I have the mug. Thank you for being a con. So you got me. It's still at Casita Del Campo. They started a new run of it. It's amazing. You really should go. But he sent me a text and all it said was fingers and faces. And it made me laugh so hard. Fingers and faces, the best beauty shop name. The best, worst beauty shop name of all time. Ever heard of. Just cut to the basics. Fingers and faces from the live Orlando show. Blue, white, the live Orlando show. And I'm sitting there reading my whatever one of us is reading a murder and I just see in the audience, whatever fucking production had happened the night before, maybe it was, who could it have been? Let's say someone like,

not too big, not too small. But so you've heard of them. Maybe let's see. It could have been, you know, it could have been at like, who's the you might as well be walking on the sun. Smash mouth. Thank you, Steven. Maybe a smash mouth. You might as well be walking on the sun. For all the good it'll do you. You might as well. And then one sad fucking confetti piece that had been sitting there since the night before slowly falls into this lovely lady's lap in the front row. That's right. I was just like, it's like she was blessed. Or she's dead. I don't know. I mean, it could have been the death confetti. That could have been the death confetti. It could have been so many things. Dottie. Is Dottie arranging papers upstairs? Dottie is digging an

inanimate object. Dottie. You go for it. You've been sedentary all day. The joy. Okay. You can cut that. The joy of kittens. The joy of kittens. Joy of fuck sex. The joy of kittens. That's the illustrated book you need to be reading. Do you know I have the joy of sex? I had an old copy I found ready to use books when I was like, well, I'm absolutely buying this. Did anybody write in it? I don't know. Did they write in it? I mean, that's what that's the first thing I look for is like somebody folded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside. Try this with Gary. That's maybe Gary will love you now. Ask Gary to please do this. All I know is that we got me and my friend Katie Newburger who lived down the street. She's the one whose family had llamas

and they had the old abandoned house on their property with the bills and the walls. Yeah. I believe I'm almost positive. It was at her house that we looked through that book because her mom was also a nurse and it was so we were starting to look at it like, ooh. Yeah. And the illustrations are so technical and like anatomical that we got bummed out very quickly. It's not interesting. Maybe we should just go swimming instead. It's like, and I said this last week I talked about reductress and their hilarious t-shirts, but they have one that's like, you know, and you see like a cow and it shows you the cuts of beef. There's one that's a vagina and it says the cuts of vagina. No. This is just like the cuts. It's just in that style. That's hilarious.

I just saw one of theirs on Twitter and it said, girl who promised not to tell anybody, only told two people. And then it's, the picture is so funny because it's a girl whose face is right next to a bunch of flowers. Like she's all smiling, all proud. That's me. It's so me. What about bitch, this bitch brought loose leaf tea to a fucking food donation. It's just like some, you can tell this bitch is like some hippy bitch who doesn't wear makeup because she's gorgeous. Not because she, yeah. Yeah. This bitch. Loose leaf tea. What about where did I come from? Do you remember that book? Oh, yes. Dude with the fucking guy who looks like George Costanza and his wife actually looks like George Costanza's

parents and it's showing them having a baby and my mind was blown. Well, what about the part? There is a part where they're explaining to their child about sex and it's like, they basically say they rub on each other really fast or something. And I just remember staring, Steven's going to have a nervous breakdown. Steven can't talk. Staring? Sex. Steven. Steven. Steven. I don't know what that is. Well, I'll tell you, it's when two fat little cartoons rub against each other. It was very, like, I remember staring at it and just being like, it can't be this. Yeah. Sex isn't just friction, right? It can't be this. Just this little man. Oh, yeah. It was very confusing. It was a confusing time, the 80s.

The 80s and that age and like before you know and then what you think you know and then when you find out. And how funny it is, but you still can't get rid of the things you thought you knew. So it is still a little that. And the thing I thought I knew is God can see me and it's wrong. God can see you, but he's into it. What? Sorry, blasphemy. Is that what they're teaching at the temple? God damn it. Uh, shit. I'm going to hell. Is there hell? I'm going there. You don't think there's hell. Goodbye. Uh, no. Goodbye, hell. There's something. Bye, hell. Goodbye, hell. See you. Deuce is hell. Peace out, Motherfucker. Um, what do you have that sweet to talk about? Let's see. Besides friction, friction of sex. So it's describing sex cartoons from the 70s.

Well, this is a great email we got. Hi, ladies. This is from Erin. Hi, ladies. I was at the second Balboa theater show back in October. That's San Diego, right? And was happy to get a chance to listen to that first show that was recently posted. Oh, it's not fun. Of course, I do immediately Google the Betty Broderick murder house. It's right down the street from me and up for sale. Some great realtor spin to quote a home rich in history. Shut up. Um, you have to tell, right? It says have $2.5 million lying around. $2.5 million living in San Diego house. Yeah. And then she, she listed it. I could say the address, right? Cause it's an empty house. Yeah. I mean, like, or just say what street it's on. It's on Cypress

Avenue. Oh, where Van Morrison lives. Um, that was a deep cut. Um, yeah. Wow. That's kind of hilarious. Would you move into a place that like murders had happened there? And would you care? Like, would you take, have pause and ask your girlfriends over drinks or like, would you be cool with it? I think it just depends on the house. Like if it, I think you'd have, I would have to go in and like feel it out. But if it was some really old house, yeah, I don't know. I'd say like in the eighties or nineties, even there was a murder even with 2000 sort of them. I want to, you know what? I'm being cavalier right now because I want to say I would, but I just thought of the first night in that house and I would just be out of my mind. I feel like I would be fine,

but I bet I wouldn't. I want any noise you heard. Yeah. But I don't care. I don't hear that. Do you, I mean, but if you alone in the house, I mean anything, I feel like Vince would be more creeped out than I would. And I would pretend that I was saying no to the house on his behalf, but really it'd be because I was freaked out too, but I couldn't admit it because I have a murder podcast. Yes. That's right. You have to use him as a human shield and you can always and he can use me whenever he wants when he hates wrestling and can't talk about it. Right. He's really painted himself into a wrestling corner. He asked to love it for the rest of his life. He, there is no fucking doubt in my mind that that person, Vince Averall, the love of my life will love wrestling for the rest

of his life. He's going to two shows in the next few days. Is he really? Yeah. He's, it's, there's no worry. You know what's really hilarious? So many people that I follow on Twitter love wrestling that I, I feel like I have a good historical backlog knowledge of, I mean, people post stuff. You can start your own wrestling podcast. Yeah. You know what I will. I'm going to call it my favorite wrestling podcast. I went home after our last recording and watched the end of the fucking world on Netflix. It's such a good, you have to watch it. It's everything Georgia said it was and more. I binged it all at once. I forgot to mention that thing. So I was saying Wes Anderson, Harold and Maude, my friend Dahmer almost a little bit. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's just so gorgeous.

It's really well done. It's just those Brits. They know how to do some storytelling and the character humor. Yes. Oh, it's so good. But those kids are such good actors. Amazing. Such epic. I never want to watch teens do anything in these teens. We're the exception for sure. It's such a good show. Yeah. Watch it. The end of the fucking world. I see that kid whose dad was like, my son's missing and the cops were like, he's probably a runaway. And then I was like, fuck that shit and hired a fucking helicopter and found his kids crashed in a car in a ravine. Still alive 30 hours later. Shit. So like a couple of his kids were trapped in the car? No, it was just his son by himself. Yeah. Oh my God. The helicopter search, search, search found the

kid crashed in a fucking ravine. Still alive. Three hours later, he's like, holy shit. This kid's not a fucking runaway. I thought you were going to mention the alive. Still alive. The kid was found alive. Yes. He survived. Yeah. I thought you were going to talk about the three kids that escaped the house in Riverside County. Oh, Jesus. That were 12, like children between the ages of nine and 27 chained to a wall. It was like 14 kids. Yes. And they're all so emaciated, they couldn't tell how old they were. In Riverside. And also the my friend Karen Anderson is the one who told me to look at it. And she goes, the data is so upsetting. It looks like Jeff Daniels and Dumber and Dumber. Oh, no. And he totally has the weirdest bangs like page boy haircut. It's

very disturbing. The parents look very problematic. Yeah. Then and have proven to be right. Those poor children like to be able to still in prison at 27 year old means you've had some fucking lifelong conditioning of this poor kid. I'll tell you that when a kid knocked on their door, I bet you this is my theory. A kid going around trying to sell like magazines or something and knocked on that door. Whoever opened that door, whatever the smell was, that kid was like, sorry, I forgot something on my bike and ran away. Like, don't don't you think a house like that, it would just be like, like one weird candle in the in the background and everything else is dark. How many? Yeah. Or did they have the perfect veneer and like no one could tell? Yeah,

probably not. You got to lose. I mean, you can't you got to lose that veneer after a few kids. After the 11th child just chained to the wall. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Okay. All right. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello, fresh has you covered. Hello, fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello, fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello, fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for Hello,

fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello, fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at Hello, fresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to Hello, fresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown

every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. You're first this week? I guess I am, yeah. Is that

correct? Yeah, you were first last week. Okay, so I have been on my couch. I sprained my ankle on Sunday. Tell everyone, I saw the bruise. It's fucked up. It's um, I rolled my ankle. I've already sprained both my ankles twice. This is not, I don't find talking about medical problems interesting at all. But this was kind of great because I was walking my dogs with my friend on. He said, hey, did they redo that house? I look over my shoulder like it's a genotae commercial walking the dog one direction but looking backwards. And I'm like, that house over there and just step on the edge of the cement where the cement meets the grass, roll my ankle, listen to it snap. My friend Don, who was behind me said that it turned at a 90 degree angle. And then I went down,

he said it looked like I looked like a stuntwoman. I went like, I went down like hand, hip, leg. Yeah. Like in a perfect line. He really liked it. But I knew immediately that it was bad. And so I just got up and went in and kept it. You were like, couch, goodbye. Yes. I elevated, iced, whatever. So tonight is the first night I've gone out and like driven. Oh no. It was fine. If I keep it like, you know, wrapped in static. So you've had a long time to study. I just got really caught up in telling that whole story. I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. I'm trying to talk about this. So I've been laying in front on the couch. Now I'm talking about that as if it's kind of a dream. What? It's kind of a dream. Well, also I do it anyway. What I realized is

this sprained ankle just made me go, you have to stop living like your ankle sprained all the time. You have to stop it. So once your ankle is not sprained, start living. Leave the house. Yeah. Go ahead and walk somewhere. Because you know what? I guarantee they'll be spring ankles in the future where you're going to be like, I wish I had lived my life outside of this. Yes. I always would know that I'd be back here at some point enjoying a sprained ankle. The couch is forever. You might as well get up and move around while you can. Go ahead. And I feel like my body, because I'm so indignant and I'm so like defiance disorder based. Yeah. I feel like my body has to sprain my ankle like every eight months just to be like up off the couch now or get you really

sick to be like, wouldn't you love to not be here right now in that fucking couch? Stop living like you're sick and all of your joints don't work. Okay. But since I was, there is a Netflix movie called Murder on the Cape. I don't know if you've seen it. It of course immediately came up when it went on to Netflix in my suggestions. Netflix knows us. What's amazing about it, because I was and I think you and I talked about this a little bit, but I got really addicted to those Hallmark Christmas movies over Christmas because my sister kept putting them on as a joke, but then we'd watch them for real. Love that. That's like what Christmas is for. It is, right? Because it's, you get like some hot chocolate. We're all sitting on the couch and then it's just make fun of TV.

It's Blather. Yeah. It's, it's a guy in a huge sweater pretending he works at a Christmas tree farm. Right. But really? And it's always then it's like, oh, she's really smart and type A, but she had to come to this small town to do something. So okay. So I see Murder on the Cape and I'm like, that doesn't look like an actual movie. And it doesn't look good. And I'm like, and also I wonder which Murder on which Cape this is. It checked all your boxes. Right? What's the thing? It hurt all your boxes. It her keyed right into all my boxes. But so I looked it up online first before I actually, I didn't want to watch it cold. I don't want to waste my time. And the first thing that came up was an article on Decider, the website Decider called and the

headline was Murder on the Cape is a bonkers crime story based on a true story. So they had already watched it and reviewed it and were like, this thing is like the room basically. So I stopped reading that article because I didn't want to like, in case I had some of the same thoughts, I want to say that I just read the headline. And then the beginning of the description, I was like, okay, I'm not plagiarizing this. Yes, the word bonkers is amazing by the way. Bonkers is my favorite. Why doesn't that use more? It's so funny. My friend Eric Dodorian on Twitter changed his name to Linda K. Bonkers and I laugh every time I see it. Okay. So this and I highly recommend that you do your substance of choice and that can be the Bible. It can be a

glass of water, but do something to get yourself in the mood to accept what the television is giving you. You could pour a glass of water on the Bible. That could be your thing. And then light it on fire. But what you should do is get some white wine or ginger ale and southern comfort. Okay. How about some Malibu coconut liqueur and Fanta. Okay. Lime. Okay. Got it. Fanta, lime and some. And then a twist of lemon. Whatever it needs to be. Karen's just talking about her death bed wish. Seriously, I'm going to make me a grasshopper. I almost thought when the Hawaiian nuclear strike thing came to her, I was like, I mean, I might as well just, this is really bad. But anyway, point being, I mean, we all get it. Right? Yeah. I'm going to be back on that or off

that wagon. The second I have a valid governmental reason. The minute it happens, I'm going to come over and be like, Hey, what you doing? With one of those huge bottles of champagne? Well, I'm not going to bring it. I'm going to let you because I don't want to enable you. Oh, you're just going to discover me. Hey, hi. Just wanted to check in on you. And then you're going to be like, that's weird. I guess I have champagne too. It's going to be a champagne party. Okay. So murder on the cape, the made for Netflix movie is quite something. And I highly recommend you watch it. It is very much like the room meets a it's almost from me, I would actually say more. It's not so bad as the room, but there are definitely actors where you say,

did you like acting before your friend decided to make this movie? Or is this something that was like you wanted to do that this weekend along with your friend who decided to make this? There's a lot of people making big choices, taken huge swings, really going for it. There's a lot I can, I could see in my mind's eye, these actors going, Hey, hey, Chuck or whoever the director is, I'm really going to go for it this time. Like this is what acting is ready? Yeah. I'm going to kick my leg and do a dance for some reason that doesn't actually connect with what my character is doing in the scene. So that's cool. The lead guy, I feel like I saw somewhere that somebody in this movie is wasn't a soap opera at some time. Oh, that makes sense. I didn't recognize

anybody. And the story, the way the murder on the cape story is told is very much against the victim, in my opinion. It's very much making her look like she tricked him in like, and then I thought, Oh, I should actually look this up and see if there's somebody that was in the real case that is connected with writing this movie. Because it's just just median quality enough. So pretty much anyone could have written it. Like a conspiracy theory on the cape. I mean, you never know, you have to watch it. But she it's like she tricked him into sleeping with her. And then she tricked him into getting her pregnant. And then she and then like she was a big flirt. Yeah, there's it's it's a it's a very problematic presentation. So then I looked up the actual story because I'm

like that story sounds familiar, but it is not look familiar in murder on the cape. Right. And granted that they open it up by saying this is based on a true story, but I don't think they claim it is exact. Okay. Okay, so here's the real story. Okay. And then you can hear this story, process it and the horror of it, then like clear your palate and then go back and watch that thing as its own separate thing. Pour your glass of water on the Bible and then go watch it. Click. Yeah. Turn that TV on. Okay. So this all takes place in a town called Churro, Massachusetts, which I reminded myself just it's like you're saying churro tea. So it's churro tea churro t r u r o. I believe whatever. That's not it. Churro. That's not a word. I'm already mad at it.

Okay. So it's 1997. And this is a tiny fishing village basically at the very top of Cape Cod. And it's busy in the summer, obviously with vacationers, but then in the winter it's dead and it's really cold. Okay. Except for all the fishermen and the families that live there, obviously. And a woman named Krista Worthington moves there in 1997. She was a very successful at the time 40 year old fashion writer. She's written for Elle Harper's Women's Wear Daily, The New York Times. She's also co-authored books on fashion. She's a successful writer and she had been writing internationally. She'd been doing stuff in Europe and basically living a very high stress kind of high fashion lifestyle. And so she wanted to get away from that and go

up to the Cape. So her family, she came from a very prominent family and her family owned a lot of different houses and places in churro. When she moved there, she moved into a pink bungalow that was right next to the harbour masters shack. And a couple months later, she moved out of that and into a larger house that her family owned, a really beautiful cottage. Sign me up. Yeah. It's, I mean, I, looking at these places in that there's a 48 hours that one of the main ones I watched is a 48 hours, eight hours all about it. And they just keep showing clips of like a ship just kind of going around like along the coastline and like, you know, an icebreaker. It's just like awesome looking. However, two weeks till you're bored out of your fucking mind. I mean, 20 bucks. You know,

you got to have your Netflix. Sure. Got maybe like some crossword puzzles. You know, Wi-Fi is spotty out there. Yeah, that's true. That would make you nuts. Right. You'd get, you'd be getting on that Jitney back into town a couple of bunch of times. There are Jitney from Messages. I've never heard that word before, so I couldn't tell you. Jitney is a word I learned from my New York friends. They jump onto it to take, it's like a little bus that drives strictly to like the Hamptons or something from Manhattan or some like summer. It's the summertime Jitney. You go out to the beach. Okay. All right. So on January 6, 2002, 20 to five in the afternoon, a guy named Tim Arnold, who is Krista Winnington's neighbor on the other side of the woods,

drops by her house to return a flashlight. And inside he finds her dead body. She's been stabbed on the left side of the chest. And she's on the kitchen floor. Her two-year-old daughter, Ava, is there next to her, clutching her. Two years old. So yeah, she's been with the body for a while. Tim grabs up at Ava and runs out, calls 911. Police come. They find that Chris has been stabbed through the chest. The knife missed her heart. It pierced her lung and she bled out on the kitchen floor. Oh my God. This murder is the first murder that Truro has seen in 30 years. So like nothing happens in this tiny town anyway. Like nothing like this. So of course, everyone's freaking out. And you know, they later on, the defense lawyer will claim that the EMTs

were sloppy and compromised the crime scene. They did throw a blanket over Krista's body when they got there to cover her up. She'd been raped. And luckily the police did find DNA on her body that they ended up sending to the lab. So they knew that there was somebody else's DNA on the body and that could be a good lead. Unfortunately, the lab was insanely backed up. It was 1997. So this was like, you know, so they start talking to the people in Krista's life. They talked to Tim Arnold, the neighbor, they find out he wasn't just her neighbor, he was also her ex-boyfriend. They dated for about a year. He says he has nothing to do with her death. Then in talking to her friends, they find out that Ava's father is a married man who was born

and raised in Truro. And his name is Tony Jacket. Now, what the fuck? Why do we keep getting his names? Jesus. Now, it does have two Ts, but I mean, that's right on par with Jimmy Buttons in terms of a noun name. Buttons, jacket, there's an onion. I mean, it just is, if this was writing, it would be lazy, but it's not. It's just how it happens. So it turns out Tony Jacket, he's lived in Truro all his life. I'm only going to call Tony Jacket the whole time. And he has six kids, he's married, but, and this is in the 48 hours and by his own account, he saw Krista when she moved into that pink bungalow right by the harbour master shack because he was working there as the fishing warden. In the 48 hours,

he calls himself the fishing warden. An article I found on ABCNews.com referred to him, and I'm not joking, as the shellfish constable. What the fuck? No, I don't know if that writer for ABCNews.com was bored and just being funny. Or just reading cartoons. It sounds like a cartoon. Or pitching an idea for SpongeBob SquarePants episode where the shellfish constable rolls into town. Yeah, the same, but that's a cartoon, ma'am. It totally is. In the movie, the Netflix film, Murder on the Kate, the character that plays Tony Jacket's character is very ashamed to be the shellfish constable. And he was, I think, a contractor and he couldn't get work. And so this was his way of like, because they were, they're, you know, having financial, the family

was having financial problems. He had six kids. Jesus, seriously. So he had to, you know, take the job. Anyway, as he's working as a shellfish constable, he sees Krista, this beautiful, very, you know, very fashionable, very, you know, all the pictures of her. She's just a gorgeous woman. And he's immediately, they immediately hit it off and are attracted to each other. She's like this high society. He's just like gruff, smelly, kind of hot, local, probably. Yes. He's very, he looks like he should have been like a third string character in The Sopranos. He has like big lips and squinty eyes and like combed back hair. Very kind of like Mambo Italiano. I can't explain it. Got it. And I'm not against it. I'll say that.

Not judging. Like get yours. Get your C constable or whatever. Get your shellfish constable Italian peace. Okay. So she, when they first get together, Krista tells Tony she can't have kids. She's been told she can't have kids. They have their affair for a year. They end up breaking up. In the film, Murder on the Cape, they make it look like she won't leave him alone and is like always trying to be in his business and finding him at the grocery store and stuff where I'm like, prove that. It seems like she had plenty of dudes in her life and it wasn't like desperate for this one. And she needs fucking Romaine lettuce. Where else is she going to go? And it's a tiny, truly tiny town. Right. Like I run into my fucking ex at the grocery store and this is

fucking Los Angeles. For real? Maybe he's talking to me. I actually don't run into my ex. I have never run into anyone I didn't want to run into in this town. I swear. And I have to knock on wood now. Why would I ever say that out loud? I don't know. I just want like open the nightmare door basically. Ooh, next week's going to be fun when we talk about who you run into. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I better start wearing so much mascara. All the makeup. Constant, constant makeup. It'll be so different. Okay. Basically, she comes to him and says, I'm pregnant and it's your baby. And he's like, you told me you couldn't have babies. And then she's like, well, it's a miracle. And that's why I'm keeping it. I don't care what you say. And I don't, you don't need to be a part of it.

Yeah. And he's, he said in the 48 hours, he was like, I was dumbfounded and he kind of thought she tricked him. But she goes on and has her life and starts to raise her baby, her daughter, Ava herself. But at some point, she asked Tony not only to pay child support, but she wants him to tell his wife that he has a daughter. So Tony actually ends up Tony jacket ends up telling his wife of like how many years of six kids and years that he had an affair and now he has this daughter jackets, the jacket, jackets come off. The jackets had to come off that night. So, so basically his wife Susan, of course, is very upset at first and live it at him. But then basically they all, she ends up meeting Krista and Krista comes over for dinner and brings the

baby and they start to make it work. Susan, Susan herself tells the story in the 48 hours. Women are the best people. Women are just like, this is a kid that is not going to like have her life be bad because of because of fucking jackets over here because of Captain Jacket. I fucking married. Oh, man. So, so and she says she actually liked her. Wow, that's amazing. I know. But but also Susan provides Tony's alibi. He was home with her the night of Krista's death. Okay. So police are like, it's all a little weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then they also discover Krista was having issues with her 72 year old father. They were, you know, as I said, like this prominent family and apparently the 72 year old

father now had a 29 year old girlfriend. Her name was Elizabeth Porter. She had been a sex worker and she had been a heroin addict. And now she had gotten her life together and she was dating the love of her life. 72 year old dad. You're embarrassing me. And Krista was like, you are spending too much money on this woman. And then they cut in the 48 hours, they fucking do a hard cut to this woman, Elizabeth Porter walking down like a courtroom thing. And she goes, y'all like to take pictures of me, don't you? And she has like this insane cigarette voice. And she's just yelling at all the cameras at once. Oh my God. Not handling her shit at all. So he wasn't like, no, I've met this classy dame. And listen, I'm not talking shit on her being a

sex worker or a heroin addict date sex worker and heroin addict, but a 29 year old into 72 to get your old don't belong together. I mean, you don't know any of the same references. No. You don't use any of the same emojis. No, or hair products or gifts or anything. Or you don't listen to the same podcast. I mean, overall, the rule is don't date someone younger than your children. Yes, please. I'm mad at the dad for being a fucking creepazoid. But I mean, I know a lot of people that have had that happen where they're like, and now my stepmom's younger than me. No, that's just like an obvious no. I know. I shouldn't say a lot of people. I know one person.

That'd be great if you knew a lot of people. I would be so impressed. These are the tiny ways I constantly lie. It just comes out as a lot of people and I'm like, just the one, but you're not hurting anyone because I'm like, cool, tell me. But so that was actually, they were like, well, this, this could actually be if she, because she was complaining with her father and basically saying stop spending money, cut her off. So then and, you know, so it does become and it sounded like it was this thing where this is almost like a vacation town. It's the elite, the people with the money in the town and then the people who make the town go. Right. And they all kind of hate each other.

I mean, you, it could, it all could get real, you know, who knows versus them. So the police are just like, it can be anybody. So they're thinking dad's girlfriend hired someone to kill her maybe. Or they're just looking at that girlfriend that she doesn't have the best background and she would have reason to get rid of her to be like, yeah, I want to keep my money source open. I thought my dad is poor because otherwise it does solve a lot of problems. Yeah. No one's going to date, no 29 year olds going to date unless they're in love with him and they have my blessing. And that's nice. That'd be nice. But I'm happy. Okay. So they get the police, there's so much going on now and there's so many suspects that police

go to the FBI to get help and to get a profile drawn up the profile that the FBI gives them doesn't help them. It does. They don't have anybody that matches it. Finally, a year after Chris's murder, lab results come back and they find out the DNA that they found on her body doesn't match any of these suspects. So none of these ex-boyfriends, not nobody. And they're like, what the fuck? So they have to start all over again. So what they just decide to do is ask for the DNA of every man who lives in true. Holy shit. And there's a reporter in this 40 hours who was like the reporter from day one. It was no way his whole story. Yeah. And he was like, well, then that was just crazy. And then it just so you clearly they have nothing in there just

like trying to do whatever. But how many men, how many men are we talking? I don't know off hand. Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. Normally, I would have lied, but I caught myself. Let's say 1500. Let's just go ahead with 15,000 because it's fun and it's a it's a good number. It's a really small town. Let's say 200. Okay. Let's say between 200 and 9000. Great. Okay. So two and a half years later, the DA Michael O'Keeffe announces they've gotten a match back from the DNA and some idiot killer gave them their DNA. Well, yes. And it leads to the arrest of a suspect named Christopher McGowan. He is her garbage man. So police first bring him in for questioning. The police say,

do you know Christa Worthington? He says, no, I just know she's a stop on my on my garbage route. But I've never met her and I don't know her. And they say, okay, well, we found your DNA on her body. Now what do you have to say? And he says, Oh, well, actually, I went to her house on Thursday, which is the day that he his he picks up the garbage at her house. And then I went inside and we had consensual sex. And then he he says he went back Friday, had sex with her, then beat her. But his friend, Jeremy Frazier was there. His friend, Jeremy Frazier started beating her up. And then he left and Jeremy Frazier is the one that stayed and killed her. What? Well, the police are like, well, that's a great story,

except for Jeremy Frazier, your friend, Jeremy Frazier, your good friend that you're setting up for this murder, none of his DNA is anywhere in the house. And he's there's no way to prove that he was ever anywhere there. Oh my God. And so then basically, after a six hour interrogation, he signs a waiver that says he doesn't want a lawyer. And then he confesses to the murder. So this guy does the same guy, Christopher McGowan, the garbage man. Okay. So basically, the prosecution that so the trial starts, the prosecution tells everybody that Christopher McGowan went out with his friend, Jeremy Frazier, and they got drunk. And then at 1am, he drives up to her house, rapes her and kills her. But Christopher McGowan's defense attorney is a guy named Bob George. He

claims Christa had consensual sex with him, Gowan on Thursday, the day he brought he picked up the garbage. Then he left and that her murder took place somewhere between Thursday. And then when her body was found on Sunday, and that it his client had nothing to do with it. He also suggested that Christopher McGowan and Christa Worthington could have been having a consensual affair for a while. And that it was just the elitists of this town that didn't believe that a white woman who is this fancy fashion writer could be having a consensual affair with a black man who was the garbage man. He also submitted that McGowan's IQ was in the low 70s. And so that's why he he waives the right for the lawyer. He didn't have he had no chance once he was in the police.

But he basically said, but then, you know, so he's basically saying his IQ is really low. So he was tricked into all of this. And he's just basically the perfect patsy. Well, then the prosecution comes back and says he he's smart enough to have lied to say he didn't know her. You know, there's like a lot of evasion tactics or whatever. So he clearly it is not just because he didn't score well on IQ test doesn't mean that he isn't tricky in doing whatever he wants. Totally. The defense also alleges that the crime scene was totally contaminated by sloppy EMTs, because those EMTs came in and put a blanket on Chris's body when they first saw her. And so the DNA, who knows who's DNA was on that blanket, whatever, they kind of just keep introducing

reasons to doubt. So Krista had a ex boyfriend who lived in Manhattan, who was in this 48 hours, who says if Krista was having an affair with the garbage man, because he had visited her two weeks before her murder, and he said that would have been the first thing she said when I walked in the door, she would have loved that story, she would have been very proud of it. If she was having some kind of like, you know, it's not May December, but it's like the wrong side of the tracks affair. She was the kind of person that would love to talk about that. So up until two weeks before her murder, that was not happening. So he basically kind of, it was interesting when he talked about that where it's like, you can totally see that. Yeah. Basically, the trial goes on

November 16 2006. He's found guilty Christopher McGowan has found guilty of first degree murder murder with extreme atrocity, aggravated rape and aggravated armed burglary. And after the verdict is read, Christopher McGowan makes a statement to the court where he says, quote, I never meant for this to ever take place. And then after he says that he claims to still be innocent. Wow. Which is a really weird way to say it if you're innocent. He is serving three concurrent life terms in prison without the possibility of parole. So after that, all of that, the verdict comes down in January of 2008, several jurors came forward and claimed that there was a racial bias in the jury room during the deliberations. So all 12 jurors got called back to court by that judge.

And they all were questioned over those claims. And their testimony revealed that there was racial tension in the jury room. So because of that, Christopher McGowan's lawyer used that information as grounds to file an emotion for a retrial. But that was struck down as have all three appeals that McGowan's defense attorneys have filed on his behalf since he got sentenced. And then in 2012, the defense attorney Bob George was convicted of money laundering and he himself served three years in prison. What? Yes. So the very much, I mean, I don't know. There's a lot of things that get introduced in this case in this 48 hours that this that defense attorney Bob George, he actually did a really good job of introducing all these

possible doubts into this case. But at the end of the day, it's DNA. Yeah. And his was the only DNA on her body. And she was raped and murdered. And she was raped and murdered, which would have meant there would have been someone else's DNA there. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because that 48 hours is kind of old and they it's interesting how it feels like they keep pointing to this idea that she quote had a lot of boyfriends that that seemed to be at play in the way people kind of like judged this. Yeah. That and like she had an affair with a married man where it's like yes, she was not to be trusted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or there was, I don't know. It's it's a I didn't like I didn't like it. And the movie did that too. The movie was crazy. The movie was all about

fucking Tony Jackets, the character that was representing him and like how tough his life was and how these all these women were making his life really tough. And there's poor fucking baby. You have to see you have to see it. It's pretty amazing. And there's also the casting is fucking fascinating. The woman who plays Tony Jackets wife a couple times I was like, is that Bridget Everett? You know the comic because it looked like her and it was this kind of like everything had a it was right on the verge of being campy. Yeah. And then we just come back every time and to boring when they made the movie. Did they know who the killer was? And then they they showed that's what happened. Yes. Although I'm pretty sure I fell asleep before the end

of the movie because how can you victim blame throughout a movie and then it turns out it's just some fucking other guy psycho murderer. Yes. You know what I mean? Which has it wouldn't matter if she was let's say promiscuous or not. I'm not saying she was but it wouldn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter anyway. Yeah. It's like that thing that happened happened. That's the case that needs to get solved. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, I think at the end of this thing it's they leave it super vague. Like maybe he didn't. Right. But it's like no, he did. Yeah. But I recommend everyone go because it's this bizarre crossroads of it's almost like every bad reenactment you've ever seen. Yeah. If all the main actors had lines. Jesus. Whereas like,

you know what play with the scene and figure out what happened with you guys. I want to see Susan Jackets gets her groove back where she leaves her fucking cheating husband and goes to an island. Is it Susan? It's Susan Jackets. It is now. Susan Jackets. Wow, that's fucked up. It's crazy. But the little girl, the good news is the little girl went to live with the person that that Krista Worthington chose to be her. Oh, good. To be the guardian, which is a good friend of hers. But Tony Jackets and Susan have visited her and now she's like in college. Oh, good. And she's doing great. Honey. Yeah. Fly. You're a bird fly. I don't know. Spread your wings. That's my words of encouragement. I bet that'll work. Spread your wings.

You know, spread your wings and stuff. Wow, crazy. I mean, it's almost like a good thing that your ankle got twisted. Let me go ahead and say it's almost a good thing that I watch TV 24 hours a day. Finally, something good came out of it. All right. My murder. Okay. So you know, I'm obsessed with fucking infectious diseases and plagues and flu epidemics. Uh-oh. You know, I love all this shit, right? Sure. That's my passion. Illness? Uh-huh. Like end of days, shit. Great. Level stuff. Mm-hmm. Okay. And right now, the flu, right now in mid-January, 2018, the flu is already an epidemic this year, which is fun. I just got a shot. Did you get a flu shot? Oh, good. I think it's irritated and I'm gonna die. But anyways.

Well, at least you won't have the flu when you die. Exactly. So on that note, because it's so fun, I thought I would do, uh, you know, our good friend, uh, Typhoid Mary. Nice. Okay. Here we go. In the summer of 1906, on Long Island's Oyster Bay, have you been there? I haven't. I think they take one of those little trains. A jitney? A jitney to get there. Right? I don't know. 1906, a jitney? Did they have cars? It was made of straw. Don't know. Maybe a horse, jitney. So Long Island's Oyster Bay is the towny playground of New York's rich and famous, Teddy fucking Roosevelt, none other than had his summer White House there. It's all fucking rich people. Sure. And everyone freaks the fuck out when in a span of just one week, six of the 11

people in the home of wealthy banker. Also, he's the banker to the Vanderbilt's even. Charles Warren's household comes down with typhoid fever while they are there on vacation. Typhoid is a bacterial infection. Let me tell you about it. Okay. Due to salmonella typhi, and it's viewed back then as a disease of the crowded slums and tendiments, which we love to talk about. Yes. In New York, it's associated with poverty, the lack of basic sanitation, and immigrants assumed to live in disease-ridden crowded housing are scapegoats of typhoid. So when a rich fucking family gets it, it's bananas. Typhoid is one of the 20th century's most terrifying killers because an infection could spread through a house before anyone knew what was going on.

The first week, the infection seems almost, you know, like just the regular flu. Then there's the fever, some abdominal cramping, but nothing really crazy to show that it's typhoid. Then during the second week, fever goes crazy. The patient becomes delirious, blood clots form under the skin. The entire abdomen becomes distended. The third week, inflammation of the fucking brain and intestinal hemorrhaging, intestinal hemorrhaging, and the death rate of those infected is anywhere between one in 10 and three in 10. So it's really easily spread by eating or drinking food or water contaminated with the feces of infected persons. So think about that in the 1900s, the early 1900s, you know, when they didn't like wash their hands and stuff and like water wasn't, you know,

cleaned and shit. And they all lived in like houses and stuff that were all, you know. Yeah. That, I mean, that was back still when people would get up and just pee in a bowl under the bed. Right. Right. And just like slosh it back under. Probably throw it out the window. Sure. Is that when they threw stuff out the window? Throw the baby out with them? Probably. I bet it. I bet they did. Let's say yes. But I like the idea that people would do it in rich houses. Well, they didn't. So that's the thing. It's like they didn't. So it was really weird that this typhoid was an outbreak in a rich house. So people were, that's why on Oyster Bay, they were like, this is a fucking something's wrong. Not here, not in my family, not in my

backyard. Right. Not in the Tony playground of the rich and famous. Hell no. No. In 1900, it killed 35,000 Americans. There's no cure. Antibiotics didn't exist and a vaccine was not yet available. So scary. So the Charles Warren's landlord was freaking out that the family outbreak would prevent him from leasing his summer house again. He thought they were burned to the ground because of typhoid. So he was like, fuck this shit. He hires freelance sanitary engineer George Sofer. A freelance sanitary engineer. Dr. George Sofer. Okay. Which is like, you sound fun at parties. You sound like you have a made up job. It's called a janitor. No, no. He's like, he investigates sources of typhoid fever outbreaks

to determine the cause. Like he's the dude who is like Dr. House. He's fucking house. He's like, come over to my house, figure out what happened here. Okay. Like why is everyone sick? He's the dude who figured it out. Like what was his name again? George Sofer. Dr. George Sofer. Okay. So he's like, he's like, what's his name? Detective Colombo Sherlock Holmes. Can you edit it? You can leave that part in. He's like the Colombo Sherlock Holmes of diseases. Okay. Okay. I was going to say diarrhea. What? Stop it. We don't use that word. No, please. We do use that word. So everything. So Sofer tests everything. He's like super excited about gross stuff, apparently. He tests the house plumbing, local shellfish company,

everything comes up negative for typhoid. But then he looks into the cook who had worked for the Warrens weeks before the outbreak and discovered that a female Irish cook who fit the description of a cook who had had worked in other households where typhoid had broke out, broke out. No, broke on the pass that she had worked there right before everyone fell ill of typhoid and had also just cooked for the Warrens. So I don't know why you'd hire an Irish cook. We can't fucking cook. Apparently she was good at it. It's all pot roast and like red potatoes. Yeah, but I think that back then they liked the simplicity of it all. Oh man, such a bummer. I mean, Irish. That sounds fucking amazing to me. That's all I want is pot roast and red potatoes.

Are you serious? With some horseradish. Yes. What about Jell-O with fruit cocktail floating inside of it? Fruit cocktail, yes. Yeah. And then of course, my grandma's special. What did she put on it? Thousand Island dressing. Hard stop. That's an iceberg lettuce. No. That's Irish cooking, my friends. Do you know what I want? I want iceberg lettuce with Thousand Island and I want Jell-O with fruit cocktail. I don't want them to meet each other. Well, sorry, my grandma says you have to and that's my job to make it happen. And you have to finish it. You do. I mean, fair enough. She forces us to eat spinach as tiny babies and very few of us have ever broken a bone. Spinach. But you fucking twist her ankle all the goddamn time. I roll it. But it don't break.

Grandma. Okay. Grandma. He was okay. So we can't find her because she left after the after every outbreak began. She fucking later is out of there and doesn't give a forwarding address. Soapur learns of an active outbreak in a penthouse on Park Avenue where two of the household servants were hospitalized and the young daughter of the family had died of typhoid. Oh no. And she he discovers, Soapur discovers that the family cook was the same woman who had cooked for the other families. It's 40 year old Irish immigrant, Mary Mallon. Oh, Mary, wash your hands, Mary. There we go. What are you doing, Mary? What does she say? And she says, I just need to start the soup with my hand real quick. I can't do it. No, you're going to do this whole fucking story.

We need it. Okay. Soapur starts stalking Mary Mallon and tells her and he tells her she's transmitting disease and death by her job. But he sounds very bad at like telling people things and explaining in a calm, like, you know, self possessed manner to an Irish immigrant, probably because he had some prejudices against Irish people. So do you think he was like too nervous to tell her or he was like screaming at her? I think he was screaming in her face, this thing of transmitting disease and death. And she's this like Irish immigrant is like, what are you talking about? So he didn't explain to her how she as a woman who was perfectly healthy could be infecting others with typhoid. He attempted to get and then and then he goes on

to attempt to get samples of Mary's feces, urine and blood, I think just by yelling in her face, that he needs samples of her feces, urine and blood. Jesus Mary and Joseph, man, get away from me. Yeah. Not surprisingly, this just pissed Mary off. And one time she chased him away with a large kitchen fork when he tried to come get her feast. Get out of here. I don't know. That's my Irish. Get out of here. Get out of the kitchen now. You always have to start way high and then go down really low. Okay. Since Mary refused to give samples, he decided to compile a five year history of her employment. He found that of the eight families that had hired Mary Mallon as a cook, members of seven of those families claimed to have contracted typhoid fever, even though Mary

had never shown signs of the ailment. And with this, SOPER becomes the first author to describe a healthy carrier of salmonella typhi in the United States. So the person who can carry it never get ill by it, but pass it on to other people. So she's basically immune to this thing she has. But she has it and is giving it to everybody else. And part of her argument is like, well, I'm fucking fine. It can't be me giving it to anyone. Right. So also, and let me use my whole arm as a stirrer. And I just want to stir this fucking stew. I just want to touch the bottom of the pan. Right. With my fingernail. Let me put this under my fingernails and put it into the stew. What's the big deal? What is the problem? My fingernail ladle. Right. Without washing my hands.

Okay. Let me tell you about Mary. Mary Mallon was born in September of 1869 in Cooks County, Cookson County, Tyrone, Cookson, let's call it. A small village in the north of Ireland that was among one of Ireland's poorest areas. She immigrated to the United States in 1883 at the age of 15. Her aunt and uncle, who she had been living with, died. So she was living in a squalid housing in the Lower East Side, fending for herself. She found work as a domestic servant and apparently her proclensity in the kitchen led her to be a cook. So she was somehow good. For what in the kitchen? I don't know. I've copied and pasted a word that I never used. Proclensity. Pro-pen-city. Proclensity.

Proclensity. That's a word. I don't think it is. Oh, shit. Hold on. I refuse. I copied and pasted it. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. That sounded so good and I was gonna... It kind of is like a combination of propensity and declension, but I'm almost positive. When your search for clensity did not match any search stuck with her propensity. Is that right? Well, I'm never copying and pasting from Wikipedia again. The grammar's odd. So it's not... There's no... Yeah, there's no... It's propensity or that's like the correction, the correct. Oh, yeah. Maybe they just... The correct word is propensity. Fuck. All right. I'm not adding that out because this is who I am. Look. I'm in a fucking show. Sometimes we get words wrong. It's okay. My proclenstan in the

kitchen. It sounds like proclenstan sounds like a... Like for men who are losing their hair, like a shampoo. Take mint proclenstan every night. Right. Okay. In 1900, she worked in Mammaronic New York. Heard of it? Nope. Where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever in 1901. She moved to Manhattan where members of the family whom she worked for developed fevers in diarrhea. That's a bummer to have at the same time. Yeah, that's horrible. You don't know what's happening and you have diarrhea. Right. Jesus. The laundress died there. Oh, no. whose name they don't mention anywhere, which is like, listen, she's someone too. That's right. And then Mary Mellon goes on to work for a lawyer.

She left after seven of the eight people and that household became ill. She fucking ladders. Why did she keep leaving though? I don't know. She thinks she's so innocent. Well, it's so... It's hard to tell because it's like, did she leave because everyone got sick and so the house stood still and they didn't need anyone? Or what did she know? Isn't that one you need help the most? That's true. Chicken soup doesn't cook itself. Yeah, that's right. Chicken soup doesn't use its own arm to stir itself. Jesus Christ. Okay. Chicken soup can't stir itself without an arm and it can't walk upstairs. Exactly. So, okay. So then in 1906, she goes to Oyster Bay and within two weeks, 10 of the 11 family members are hospitalized with typhoid,

changes job again, same thing happens, cooks for the war and same thing happens, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Doctors theorize that Mary Mellon likely passed typhoid germs by failing to vigorously scrub her hands before handling food. Usually the elevated temperatures of cooking food would have killed all the germs and bacteria and shit, but then they found out that Mary Mellon's like most popular dish. Her specialty? Her specialty was ice cream that she cut up raw peaches into and froze, so nothing had gotten cooked. Oh. Can you imagine those wet fucking peaches with her little like cutting knife and all the nail under her nail stuff? As she's cutting peaches, she's also cutting a little bit of her finger along with it. Oh, God. She had a real

poor clumsity for cutting up her own flesh. I can't believe I got that word. Okay. The New York Health, the New York City Health Department finally, they try to get her to chill the fuck out and she won't. Finally, they send position. She won't. She's like, fuck you and everyone. I must cook. Yeah. She's like an angry, an angry woman. She had to fight for her like her life livelihood. She didn't have anybody. Nobody. It reminds me, so I just started watching Alias Grace, which you had talked about liking and it reminds me of like she came over on a ship and that fucking, in that nature of absolute bullshit and she's like, fuck you, I'm working to like live my own life. I mean, it's those, the ship journey alone is so upsetting

for most people coming to this country. Traumatizing. Just horrifying. And then they show up and then it's like, I hope you have a job. Yeah. Good luck with that. Yeah. Also, you don't wash your hands enough. That's what you're talking about. You know what that reminds me of real quick? Yeah. When I lived in Scotland, there was a commercial that was on like UK TV and it was, are you a washer or a walker? And it was just a, it was pretend camera, like hidden camera in a bathroom to see if people walked up, checked their face and walked away or washed their hands and walked away. And since that commercial, I think before that I was very like, nah, who cares one way or the other? I know if I need to wash my hands or not. Since that commercial, I've, oh, I wash my hands

every single time. You just can't trust doorknobs. You just can't trust door handles. You just should wash your hands as much as possible. And I do. I mean, don't go out of your fucking mind. And I do. But like, do your best. Don't be a walker. That's all I'm saying. My dad, every, he won't sit down it. We'll go to lunch anywhere. He had just gotten out of his car. He hasn't touched anything. He won't. He's kind of has OCD though, but he'll go wash his hands before sitting like every time you can't even start talking to him. Oh, wow. Wash his hands. I wonder if that's like, if his parents were really strict about that, like before eating. Yeah, maybe. It's a good idea. Every once in a while, I'll look at my hands, especially when I'm wearing cheap jeans. Oh, no. There's nothing worse than

having dirty hands as an adult at like a meal. There's only worse than like putting a food thing into your mouth and being like, when was the last time I washed my hands? That's my fucking thing of like, and then there's only so many times you can go, well, I'm strengthening my immune system. Right. No, most of the time you're not. You're just putting someone else's fucking urine hands in your fucking mouth and from the doorknob. I mean, we'd all have much stronger immune systems if that really was true. Right. I have a bit of an OCD about washing hands. Well, you're Marty's daughter. I'm Marty's daughter. Throwing through a hardstark doesn't let her hands get dirty. Doesn't mess. Does not mess. Okay. So New York City Health Department sends in physician Sarah

Josephine Baker to talk to Mary. So the singer. Yeah, right? Almost. That'd be amazing. And night she was this amazing dancer. That's not good. Baker said that by the time she was, she said, quote, by that time she was convinced that the law was only persecuting her when she had done nothing wrong. So Mary was like, hardcore fuck you. Yeah. We're like that. Yeah. Bakers. So this chick, Sarah Josephine Baker, her own father and brother had died of typhoid when she was young. And so she had felt pressure to support her mother and sister financially. So at 16 years old, she decided on a career in medicine. Wow. And this, and this is like the early 1900s, late 1800s. This chick is a badass motherfucker in her own right. And people should

fucking study her, et cetera, for feminist reasons. She's fucking awesome. So she goes to find Mary Mallon and with her help, the New York City Health Department takes Mary into custody in 1907 and places her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16 acre North Brother Island off the Bronx shore. So if you live in, had lived in Manhattan or been in Manhattan, you see this fucking island over there, like off the shore that you can like see. It's almost like Alcatraz in San Francisco. Right. So all the only thing, only companion she has and tell me if this doesn't sound amazing. She's in confinement and all she has is a fox terrier. And you're like, living the life. Can I please? So wait, I think I'm in that confinement right

now. You put yourself in Mary Mallon's fucking confinement. We're all, all Irish women are doomed to live the life of Mary Mallon. It just repeats itself. Dammit. Okay. So she, it's at, so they, on this Brother Island was the Riverside Hospital, which is where she's at. It's founded in the 1850s as a smallpox hospital to treat and isolate victims of that disease. So they just fucking put them on this tiny island outside of Manhattan and you can see Manhattan and you're like, oh, well, I want that. And they're like, no, you're sick. Too bad. It eventually expands to other quarantineable diseases like leprosy and venereal diseases. So they just like later people onto that island. Did they really? Yeah. So you get, you get some venereal disease and then you

have to go. So like, go stay here and tell you. Oh, in the same room with all the other people with venereal diseases. Yeah. That sounds like a party. I mean, those are the people that party. Yeah. A lot of great personalities in that room, I bet. I mean, I'm sure. Okay. With her force confinement, Mary Mallon, everyone, the media goes fucking nuts because this woman has been spreading this disease and killing people with it. So media goes nuts. Eventually in 1908, in the Journal of American Medical Association, she is nicknamed Typhoid Mary. That's where she gets her name. So the professionals really came into shit on her. Yeah, they were doing top-notch journalism. Good job, everybody. So it turns out Mary Mallon is immune to the disease herself.

She's the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen, which is pretty fucking cool. Well, in custody, Mary Mallon, Typhoid Mary, let's call her admits to poor hygiene. She's like, yeah, what of it, motherfuckers? Say it in Irish. I can't say. That's all you just say. Who cares? Jesus, Mary, Joseph, there's other things to worry about. Exactly. There's people starving in my country. She said she did not understand the purpose of handwashing because she did not pose a risk. Girl, you're the cook. You're the cook. You pose a risk. It doesn't matter how healthy you are. Authorities are like, let's get rid of your gallbladder, because that's where they believe the Typhoid bacteria resided. And she was like, fuck no,

fuck you. I don't even have the disease. And she was unwilling to see working as a cook, too. So like, we'll let you go. Just don't work as a cook. And she's like, nope, I know, won't wash my hands. Go fuck yourself. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, Mary, fight. We're so angry. It doesn't make sense. Irish women, Irish women, fight, fight, fight. And then a herky. Herky. She is forced to give 163 samples of various bodily substances to the doctors there, 120 of which tested positive for the bacteria. She was teeming with this disease to the, to the health, to the gills, to the gills. So Mary stays there for three years until tests results from a private laboratory. Yes, I said that came up negative for Typhoid. And with this information in 1909, Mary sues the health department

for her freedom. But everyone's like, where did she get the money to sue the health department? And then, and then it's like a secret thing that maybe William Randolph Hearst was like, we'll give you the money if you give me like an interview. So like he was like springing people. So genius. Yeah, so smart. But the New York Supreme Court's like, go fuck yourself. No. But then in 1910, there's a new health commissioner. He lets her go if she promises never to work as a cook again. And she's like, okay, great. She's like fine. I didn't like that much anyway. Yeah. So in February of 1910, Mary agreed that she was quote, prepared to change her occupation and would give assurance by affidavit that she would upon her

release take such hygienic precautions as would protect those with whom she came in contact from infection. Meaning wash your fucking hands. I'll wash my fucking hands. No, I just I felt like I wanted to defend, but there's like it's an indefensible. Go ahead. Some people don't think it some people think what that her being locked up is indefensible. No, she killed a ton of people because she refused to watch. She it's like she wouldn't give in anything where it's like, okay, well, if you're the cook, you have to admit hand washing is kind of key. I realize it was that was kind of a new idea back then. But still, well, the thing is, so she thought they were all to get her all this shit. You're like decades later, they're like, well, if she had typhoid,

her whole life, maybe it fucked her brain up a little bit and she was paranoid and crazy. Oh, yeah. But wait, it gets worse. Okay. Okay. So they let her out. They lose track of her. Goodbye. Bad idea. Cut to five years later, in 1915, a typhoid outbreak happens at Manhattan's Sloan maternity hospital struck 25 workers and killed two of those workers. When Sober, our friend George Sober's back, he looks into the outbreak and he's like, this looks fucking familiar. Oh, no. Traces it back to the cook, who's an Irish woman named Mary Brown this time. She changed her name. She found a good man. Nope. She changed her name so she could become a cook. Like she was doing it. Now, now she's responsible for it. Now she's being a dick. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Now it's criminal, I think. It's Marymallon, blah, blah, blah. Turns out she changed her name and during her years of release, she had cooked in hotels, restaurants and institutions. Wow. So she was like, she'd gone, they'd given her a job as a laundress. You make no fucking money. It's really hard work. Doesn't smell good. Doesn't smell good. She was like, fuck this shit and went to cook. Wherever she worked, there were outbreaks of typhoid. However, she changed jobs so frequently, so she had eluded the blame. She's captured and again, confined to North Brother Island, where she continued to refuse to acknowledge that she had any connection between herself and the typhoid cases. Well, at that point, it's so stacked up against her that she might as well just do that

because she's so guilty that the second she breaks it's over. Yeah, exactly. So after the second apprehension, she spends the next 23 years of her life as a prisoner in forest isolation. Hundreds, if not thousands, of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified were allowed to walk the streets of New York freely, but typhoid Mary lived alone in exile. Partly due because the public were fucking pissed at her because she wouldn't stay out of the kitchen. Like if she had just not gone back to cooking. Yes. That's second time around. Exactly. She, I mean, I didn't, it's sad that she lived in isolation. Yeah. But why are you being so stubborn? Yeah. Calm down. Karen. Oh, Karen's having things. Then you just, my face just starts to fall apart.

I don't want to do it. It just comes out of me. Your typhoid tears just started running out your face. This is the devil inside me. He's so mad. But stay in the kitchen. On November 11, 1938, Mary Mallon dies of pneumonia at age 69, still in captivity. An autopsy found evidence of live typhoid, typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder. So they were right. Yeah, they were right. Her body's cremated and her ashes were buried at St. Raymond's Cemetery in the Bronx. So Mary Mallon, it's thought that she infected 51 people and three of those illnesses resulted in death. And that's based on George Soper's, you know, looking into it. But she used so many aliases that it's thought that she, the true death toll could have been way fucking higher.

Some estimated that she may have caused 50 fatalities, which I just saw that in a random article. So I don't know if that's even true. Historians say she contaminated at least 122 people and killed five, which sounds a little more likely. So crazy though. Yeah. So throughout the 20th century, typhoid fever steadily declines due to introduction of vaccinations and improvements in public sanitation and hygiene, aka washer fucking hands. And today, typhoid fever is considered a rare condition among developed countries. Raid is approximately five cases per million per year. As your fucking brother Island and Riverside Hospital real quick, this fucking island of disease off the Manhattan sounds amazing. The island has been abandoned since 1963

after it was a detention, it was lasted detention facility for juvenile drug offenders in 1963. How badly do you wish you could go and just sit on the wall and like stare at the people there? You know, there's some black light posters in that building. You know, there's some people out there who have stories of like, they were like, because you know, my mom working in the mental, she worked at a hospital called Langley Porter in San Francisco. It's up on the hill. Yeah. And people in the 60s used to send their kids, they got caught smoking pot one time. No, they sent their kids to the mental hospital. So she said there were in this in the like mental late 60s, all these kids, there was like an influx of kids are like, they're

incorrigible in their drug addicts where they had only done like smoke one joint or whatever. We're saying no to things. Exactly. And they were housed with people who are legitimately in need of mental mental health issues. And I'm sure those kids were like, well, I'm never doing anything bad again. Yes. The shit that they saw like, yeah. Or they were like, I don't know. She just said it was really sad and bummed her out a lot. It's clearly complicated. Yeah. So these kids got sent there in 1963. Finally, it closed. It's now uninhabited and designated as a bird sanctuary. But wait, it's illegal for anyone to go on the island without permission from the city. All the buildings, though, still fucking stand. And these photographers

sometimes go on there and take photos and you can see a bunch of the photos. We should put them up on Instagram of these gorgeous, like brick buildings that are falling in a disrepair. And you can see the rooms where Mary Mallon was fucking housed and you can see the typhoid wing and you can see the fucking crematorium. And it's like, it's insanely gorgeous. I am asking any murderino who works for the city of Manhattan to please let me and Karen come see the fucking island. Come and get a disease of our own for ourselves. And since it's like under, you know, under watching you, it's really hard to get on there. Everything is still there. So like people haven't graffitied and people haven't stolen shit from the island. That's amazing. You need to see the photos.

Everything is covered in wildlife. It's gorgeous. Oh, I want to see that. It's amazing. It sounds like the island they threatened to send or that they promised to send Dr. Lecter to inside of the lambs that ends up to be that they were like fakesies when she recites that thing. You are allowed to walk on the beach every day, whatever. I want to read that. It's so good. Do it again. And you will be allowed one. You will be allowed one. One day a year. Well, you can walk freely on the beach with armed guards or whatever snipers. I don't know. And she didn't know it was fake either. I know. My friend Amy, who you met when we were in Wisconsin, she has sans lambs memorized. I've watched it with her and she'll just say the

line real quick before. It's my favorite thing in the world. I love it. You will be allowed to walk. She'd be able to do that speech right off the dome. It's so good. I love it. Oh, these domes. Okay, it's illegal. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But you can still see the building, the room where Typhoid Mary spent the last 23 years of her life. What is she doing there? Oh, man, she was bummed. But it's just like there's varying accounts where it's like some say she was like actually helping out there and like a maid and some say that she was just like in seclusion and they abandoned her and used her as like a look at Typhoid Mary, you know, when people would come to the island. Yeah. It's that kind of thing. So you don't really know. I hope there was a fox terrier.

I hope so. Yeah. And then I also want to mention there's a podcast. If you're into this shit that like I am, there's a podcast that's kind of new. It's hosted by two, these two young ladies who are grad students in disease ecology. It's called this podcast will kill you. And it's just about infectious diseases from history. And every episode is that. And these two girls are named, they're both named Erin are like, it's just an awesome podcast. This podcast will kill you. Yeah. So this podcast will kill you. Love it. I like to imagine that Typhoid Mary sat in seclusion in her room on that island and fantasized of all the different things she'd like to put her hand in. So then like she'd be like corn chowder or whatever. And then she's like mashed potatoes and

then both the fantasies, just like both bare arms go all the way in. And then like she cleans her fingernails in the chowder. Yes. I wonder if she like requested like cooking magazines and like red recipes and was like, stick, stick your arm completely in. She'd be like, this looks good. But you know, it means my arm, my arm, my fingernail clippings. And it's not funny. People. It's disgusting. It's terrible. But isn't that amazing? It's incredible. Also the idea this, did you watch the Nick when it was on? Yeah. And they have an, uh, there's an episode involving her. I watched the little, the little, um, scene where they, they, and yes, where they confront her. Yeah. Yeah. It's, that was such a good show. And they did that around. She was great.

But they did that where they would take those things out of history and be like, this is what, where you don't have any sense, like things before modern medicine and modern stuff. It's just the weirdest idea where they'd be like, somebody coming in, they'd be like, well, we tried to stick a tube in their arm and then they died. Like the end or it's just, it was so crazy precarious. And the Nick is such a great show. I love that. Yeah. If you're into that kind of thing, you should definitely watch it. It was great. Also, if you've ever taken cocaine to the point where it was a problem for you, I warn, trigger warning, huge cocaine trigger warning for the Nick. Opium too. Like I could be a doctor and do coke all the time. No. Maybe you're

into opium dens too. Trigger warning. Trigger warning. If you love to lay back with a bunch of people dressed in a traditional Chinese garb. Yeah. Yeah. Then this will be hard for you to get through. It's going to make you nuts. But if you love surgery without gloves or anesthesia, oh, this is the show for you. What a show or Clive Owen. Right. Um, that was great. Thank you. That was fun. I love to learn. I love, I love teaching. No, I love saying words wrong. I love I love to learn. I love to lie. I love to make up new words. I love to just have fun with it. Just say shit that, and you know, don't have any for clint city for caring. I mean, I have a real for clint city to just say what I want. And I think we all do. There's a freedom in

that in these for clint cities we all have. And this for clintiest time, there's a freedom. It's so the funniest thing about Typhoid Mary is she, um, she had a real problem with for clint clintliness. Shit. No, I love it. It was a fucking valiant effort. I tried, but you could see me. You can see me making that U-turn for miles away. Would you have made that attempt two years ago before this podcast? Absolutely not. No, not at all. Real bias against puns, as you know. And so I applaud you. And, uh, no, I think it's the effect that we're, that you have on my life. I'm, I'm making you stupider. You're breaking down those pun walls. I am stupidering you. Hard. You know, real hard. Uh, what makes you happy? Let's see. Falling down and snapping my ankle

loudly in front of my neighbors. Oh, no, I kind of have one. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. The thing that makes me happy this week is this book that I'm listening to. Thank you, audible. Uh, it's sci-fi fantasy. And it's one of those books that makes me, that someone thought of this narrative and thought of this like, uh, you know, idea makes me happy that humans, that certain humans exist. You know, it's like so fucking joyous that like people can think of these things and write these books and it's gorgeous. And I love it. It's called The Chil, it's called Children of Time by Adrian, uh, Tchaikovsky. And it's sci-fi fantasy. The book is really fun to listen to. It's fucking weird as shit. It's like post-human space stuff with their spiders. I've never

in my life thought I would ever have sympathy to spiders, but I do. It's like such a good book and it's making me really happy to exist. Wow, that's great. And a lot of, like they're, like, uh, uh, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, you know, like that, that's the last book that's done that for me, which has made me like so happy that Douglas Adams existed and I get to live here. Big theories and thoughts and feelings. Yeah. I'm like, wow, someone thought of that. Our brains are bigger than, you know, in these Proclenses times, like, where everything feels kind of Proclency. Right. And I know I'm not going to write that fucking book. So I appreciate that Adrian Tchaikovsky has. Yeah. So that's really sat down and

compounded it out. Yeah. Yeah. So that's making me happy. Agreed. Agreed. What's yours? Okay. Mine is, this is, this was a tweet that I received two days ago. You did too. Um, from a woman named Molly on, uh, hold on. Oh, sorry, Haunted Train. That's so fucking loud. It's me, Chernyk, on Twitter. And she wrote to us and said, don't be alarmed if there's a body down there and quotes. And then the headline of the article that she sent it, sent us says, sinkhole reveals hidden room below family's garage. And then there is a picture of shelving that they can see through the hole. And on the shelf, there's toys, but it's also all dark and creepy. And it's like this article, so it happened in Idaho Falls, Idaho, this family, apparently

when they like, there's like an inch of cement. Yeah. And then the sinkhole happened. Yeah. And basically there had been an hidden room underneath their house. And it's in a place where there's normally not sellers. Right. So they're like, they think it's possible that could have been like a bomb shelter, but probably not. Yeah. And a bunch of stuff that's down there has been down there for like 40 or 50 years. Is that, is that how, I couldn't find how long it was. It's like 40 or 50 years. I don't think that they were like letters and shit. Yes. Um, but they, that's the crazy, let me see if I can get a year. Oh, um, the home was built in the 50s and it was built as a basement home. Then someone came in the 70s and remodeled it and added the second story.

So I bet in the 70s, someone put it down there. Yeah. But they say it's definitely not a bomb shelter. And that it's sketchy. And the insurance provider and the engineer are the ones that said, don't be alarmed if you find a body down there. That's amazing. Don't be alarmed if you find a body down there. Because they're basically going down there and looking through it. It's, it's just like that picture of the old kind of water moldy letters and stuff. It's just the creepiest story of all time. So I'm very, as I think you know, but I'm not sure if everybody knows, but I'm obsessed with sinkholes. Oh, sinkholes are truly my passion. Anytime they come, I was, I was never more livid. Remember the sinkhole that came up off of Laurel Canyon? Yeah. I was up in Petaluma and I saw it

on the news and I was livid. Because you couldn't go meet it in person? Yeah. I would have walked right down there. I would have paid top dollar for that meet and greet. And then like, hi, where did you come from? What's your deal? What's happening down there? Is it a, are you a hidden river? Or are you something entirely different? That's amazing. Yeah. Sinkhole and hidden room. Come on. My favorite sinkhole. That's amazing. This is a double Z's for you. It's a sinkhole and a hidden room. And because the best part about usually sinkholes fill back up with water because that's why they're there in the first place. It's like the water table got too close. Blotty blah. Look at you. It's made up. But it's a water involved. You know, that's why. Sure. It's erosion, but it's

underneath. Okay. Anyhow, there's no water in this, in that cellar. It's like they can go down and look into it. I know. It's not like it got flooded immediately or filled with silt. No, I want to go. I want to go down there. Let's go. It's like an amusement park. Let's go. Idaho is not that far away. Thanks for listening, everyone. Yeah, that was a fun one. There's all kinds of crazy shit in that one. Take it, run with it. Do your thing. Do your thing. Do a fucking herky herk at the end of it. Do a herky. I'm, if it's, please, if you're going to correct me on the herky positioning. Don't do it. You have to be a professional cheerleader. That's all. Only take emails from professional cheerleaders. And you have to send a video of you doing a herk. We need

the correct herk. And then we'll play the audio of the visual of the video and breaking your back. Thanks for listening, friends. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, you want a cookie? What cookie? Oh, there's a little one.