My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 13: Thirteen Going on Murdy

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 13 – Thirteen Going on Murdy – where they covered murders from the 1980s. Karen detailed the murder of Jennifer Levin, and Georgia discussed the Keddie Murders in Cabin 28. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!  Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder   Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-13-thirteen-going-on-murdy My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. Hey you. Yeah, you. Scrolling TikTok and avoiding your chem homework? Chegg here. Hot take. You've seen enough Bama Rush, ASMR keyboard, and viral dance videos for one day. Let's lock in and start that assignment. If you need a little help, lean on Chegg's expert-supported learning tools. I say this with love. Put on some lo-fi beats and get going with our step-by-step study support. Your weekend will thank you.

Small steps today means big wins tomorrow. With Chegg, subscribe today. You got this. Miller Lite. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Light set out to brew a Light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can.

They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time tastes like Miller time. Learn more at MillerLight.ca. Must be legal drinking age. ["My Favorite Lerner"] Hello. And welcome to Rewind, right?

With Karen and Georgia. That's what the show this is. Yep. I don't know how that got split up. This is our new weekly bonus episode where we get in a little time machine and go back to reflect on our very first episodes of this podcast. Today we're going gonna revisit episode 13. That's called 13 Going on Murdy.

Mm-hmm. It's from Thursday, April 21st, 2016. So this episode was the three-month anniversary of the podcast starting. Who fucking knew it would be six months total that we did this podcast? I mean, just let's go back and whisper in our little 2016 break.

Guess what? Hey, girl. Hey. Hey, guess what? Hey, guess what? It's going to keep happening. So anyway, we're celebrating. We're looking back.

We're viewing. We're discussing. So join us. Go find your favorite goth, your favorite punk, and a grandma, and invite them to listen along, because now we all get to be day one listeners. Okay, let's listen to the intro to episode 13. All the way down to the LBC. Are we gonna podcast down to the LBC today?

Yeah, this is Karen on the one too. That's Karen on the one too. That's Georgia on the three fours. There we go. Hey, welcome to My Favorite Murderer. This is Karen. That's Karen. This is Georgia. Remember our voices. Remember, make mental pictures and then listen to horrible things from us. And get ready to party. Party with knives. Guys, there's so much going on. So much going on. This is going to be

chock full. Yeah. So this episode is about 1980s murders. 80s murders. It's episode Lucky 13. Yay. And we decided that we do, well, when we decide these things, it's so random. We're just trying to interest ourselves and make something that we think we'll get. For me, I was trying to think of something to make us dig deep and go maybe off ours. My standard interest is the murder of marginalized people so that I can come back and talk about and shake my finger at society and how society works. And how we've wronged. And how we've all been so wronged.

Yeah, and we've wronged and been wronged. But then I think last week we got a little deep and personal and kind of sad. And so I was trying to think of like 80s murders would be like immediately I'm thinking, come on in the morning. Like you know, it's a Cyndi Lauper feel. It's a fun murder. It's a fun triangle, pink triangles a Cyndi Lauper feel. It's a fun murder. It's a fun triangle, pink triangles and light blue dots type of feel. Okay, I should let you know that mine isn't

fun. Okay. Mine is marginalized people. I mean, I feel I feel like there's almost no way that it's not going to be that way. Well, the 80s just did a number on murder. Yeah. I feel like there was just there was a lot of horrific murders coming out. Yes. Because I feel like there was just, there was a lot of horrific murders coming out. Yes. And I think when I was researching mine, I found when people talk today about that we live in rape culture in the 80s, it was like that flag was flying high. Well, it wasn't a rape culture back then because no one cared about rape. It was like, wasn't it like legal to rape your wife? Yeah. And it was like she wore a short skirt so she deserved it and everyone would high five in the courtroom. There wasn't

a rape. It was fucked up guys. It wasn't a rape culture because it was just culture. It wasn't rape culture. Yeah. There was no delineation. It was just like, it was, this is culture and too bad. Accept it. There's nothing you can do. Right. Don wear it. You shouldn't have worn that and you shouldn't have talked to this person Karen What do you have in front of you? Oh guys? Yeah before we get into the main course, let's let's do some apps Let's have an appetizer happy hour. Yes. Give me some murder consomme now people talked about this on the Facebook page Of course, there's there's no way to jump the Facebook page. When shit comes out, it's going to hit there first. But I too, like someone who posted this on our Facebook page, bought the InTouch weekly that has Jean Benet's cases finally solved on the cover.

Yeah. But they don't, but they're like, but we're not telling you, right? Well, it can't be for sure because now it's gone into, it's almost like JFK theorists, where it's all just split into these lunatic satellite theories. The reason I think this one has much more weight to it is because it's the original private investigator that the Ramses hired. Yeah, but if the Ramses hired them, is he going to disclose what he knows about the Ramses? I don't know.

I mean, you would think not, but then he's no longer on their payroll. He just started investigating independently from when they were cleared. But someone made this great point on the Facebook page that rung my bell, which is you cannot clear the Ramses if the case has not been solved. Somebody came in and was like, don't worry about them. They're fine. And it's like, but there's no person. It's not like you're saying that. And then you're bringing up this is the actual suspect. And the reason we know they're not guilty is because of so and so because they still haven't cleared all the evidence that points to them. There's so much. And there's just so much it's um it becomes like the it's the Jack the Ripper thing where when you when you go over the path

over and over everything gets muddied and crazy and you suddenly don't know where the path is anymore. That's frustrating to me is that anytime someone is like here here's the theory and here's why every single one of them makes total sense sure and you're like okay yeah I could see that and they are like they pick and choose the evidence that supports that and it makes sense. And then you hear the evidence of something totally different and you're like, that makes sense too. Right.

So it's hard. It's very hard. And in this article itself, this happened to me, which here, I'll say this first. This is how terrible I am with the digital age we live in. This article was four pages long and I dipped out on page three. I was like, I can't read that, I don't wanna read this anymore.

But I'll tell you why. Because it's this, what's his name? Ali Gray is this private investigator. So he's got a team of people helping him for this investigation. They think it's a guy named Michael Helgoth who did it. Oh, they say who they think did it.

Yeah. And they think he did it with other people, but this guy has killed himself, quote unquote, killed himself since that time, which the bullet went from left to right and the gun was laying on the right hand side. So they're like, that's not a suicide. So they think that he was killed to be silenced as the people that did it with him want to make sure that he doesn't fuck them up and get them sent to jail. So do they think it's one guy or multiple guys? They think that there was multiple guys. It's all different people saying all different things.

Because then why wouldn't they kill, if it was just the two of them, I could see that. But if it was three, yeah, okay, so it's three, then why didn't whoever killed that one guy killed the other guy too? They could still do it. Or maybe they have. Like, we don't know because we don't know who those other two people are. But apparently this guy, Michael Helgoth, Ollie Gray, for some reason that name will not stay in my head. Ollie Gray says this guy is caught on tape admitting to the murder. Where's the tape? What's the tape? They see the tape. It's yeah, it's it's uh, It's let's see

The tape was removed from mike's house after he died in 1997 But apparently it was overlooked by the police and returned to mike's family. And why do they think he did it? Because he admitted it on this tape and then Maybe they think he did it. Because he admitted it. Because he mixed it on this tape. And then there's their witnesses who say they saw three men leave the house in a station wagon. There's a girlfriend who says, my boyfriend came back in a station wagon I'd never seen

before changed blood splatter clothes. It's a bunch of that kind of shit. But it's nothing. Nothing is being reported to the police in a firm factual way. As far as I can tell from this very lightly scammed article, here's why I stopped reading this article. Because one of the people whose picture is next to Olly Gray's in the article is a guy named John, it looks like Kennedy or Canady. And he has a lot to say about this guy and what he's like. And he killed cats when he was little and he's really messed up and he owned a taser and John Peney was tased and all this different stuff.

Unfortunately, in the second paragraph, it says, oh shoot who has a questionable past himself after being sentenced to three years supervised probation in 1979 for sexual assault on a child. Oh my God. Phoned the Boulder Police Department nearly 20 times. No one would call me back, he says. So immediately, that's when I was like, why am I reading this article? This is the reason nobody's listening to these theories is because you now have a child rapist that's like, I know who did it.

Well, that's like criminals reporting each other. It's never gonna be solved. It's the messiest fucking thing. I don't think it'll ever be solved. I mean, I have to say, I don't know, but I had to buy this. Yeah. No, no, you needed to do that.

I'm glad you brought it out of your bag and I was like, yay! Why didn't I think of that? Yay! Every page of this magazine is absolute trash, including this article that's all just like, and of course they have all the pictures of like, Patsy's writing and then the note and all everything you'd want. I want to see the writing I want it doesn't help anything No, I don't think it'll ever be solved and I don't unless we can do some kind of mind reading in the future

I don't think it's gonna be solved. What's gonna help me though a lot is that True crime series they're gonna do about this case. I can't wait for that I'm gonna watch the shit out of it. But like will they include things from child rapists? That's what I want to know is like how who's fact checking that script? Totally. Totally. I like the idea that I spent this $2.99 so you wouldn't have to. Thank you.

Yeah. I'm going to try to do that for you. When it gets solved, is that going to be worth something? Yeah, I'm definitely putting it into a Ziploc bag and putting it in file folder. Put it in your vault. That's right. At the bank. You guys will both have vaults. I'm definitely putting it into a ziplock bag and putting it in file folder. Put it in your vault. That's right, at the bank. You guys will both have vaults. That'd be amazing to have a vault that when you die you open it up and it's a bunch of

old in touch weeklies. Like not even that old though. They're like from like mid 90s. Pathetic. Yeah. Should we talk about, should we go into the main course? Oh, the one thing I do want to say first. Please do.

Our Facebook page is blowing up so crazy. We love that people keep joining it. It's so fun. And we're going to, we had, it grew so quickly that we had to get some people, I believe their names are Alex and Ari, and we had to get them to moderate. So we just want to be respectful of the fact that they're actually doing work for us and trying to keep the Facebook pages readable and as fun for everybody as possible. So patience as we kind of have weird growing pains because it isn't the original 300 people who are like

you know their own little club and we're sorry it can't be that way anymore. It's almost 3,500. It's fucking crazy. It's huge. And also thanks to you guys on the Facebook page we also made the fucking we made the top 50 comedy podcasts on iTunes. Which is crazy How crazy is that so quickly? Yeah, thank you guys so much for Participating so much. The only way we can get on that is if you guys rate review and subscribe

Excuse me Get out get it out now. So please keep doing that because I was very fucking exciting. Oh and also I haven't checked the Gmail for your emailed hometown murder stories in a while. Because they go, yeah, they went a little crazy. There's so fucking many. So we will get back on that and do a mini-sode of that pretty soon. We will. I'm also, because of the Facebook page, I'm really aware of quotes that I'm saying that we're saying because people have making these inspirational

Posters that are so hilarious. So funny of stupid like not stupid like hilarious quotes. We've been saying yeah, it's very cool It's so rad. So now every time I say something I'm like, is this gonna be Don't start trying to talk in quotes. I don't I'm not not going to. I don't want to. I don't want to. But then you pull out of like notes in your pocket. Yeah, but I happen to, like my hand has writing all over it. But anyways. But. And we're back.

We're back. The great Aaron Brown, who is our marketing director but also helps us make these episodes, actually went and found an In Touch Weekly magazine so we could actually look at it. The one that we had been looking at? That we were talking about. I mean, that's just dedicated work that she is doing. I think this is from when they exonerated, and I'm putting that in quotes, the parents without any actual evidence. They were just kind of saying, well, because the headline is finally solved.

Oh, that's true. Where it's just kind of like, that's quite a promise. That is. Like, wouldn't, yeah, you got to deliver something great if you're going to promise that, right? You would think. Yeah. But it also kind of shows how this is the kind of thing where it's like it says they're America's biggest murder mystery, where it's like, yeah, everyone cared about this little

girl just being murdered in her home. Totally. I mean, I just I can't believe it's still not been solved. It's wild. Let's see. The Facebook group's going strong. We have 3,500 members, which is a ton of people. And we have a bunch of moderators are being thanked finally and, you know, appreciated them, all

the hard work they did. Yeah. Alex and Ari, thank you so much, because they were the original moderators on them. Back when that Facebook page was small and manageable. It was like your grandma's kitchen. You just go in there and have a seat. There would be like country themed decor. Yeah, it smelled like cookies and it was just like a place where the other people who were listening to this podcast and there weren't that many,

could all kind of talk and gather. Sit around a four-mic-mic at table, have some tea. And essentially build the murder, like, you guys built the murderino community there and together. That's where it all kind of started. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. To have watched that happen.

Yeah, totally. And we're on the top 50 of comedy podcasts, which I was excited about. You probably weren't. Well, I mean, I just, my whole thing was you were getting very excited. Yeah. And I just didn't want you to be disappointed. I was trying to like be like, you can be excited, but what if something else happens? Be ready for a different thing. And, you know, I'm happy and proud to say I was wrong. I was very wrong.

So our theme for episode 13 is our favorite murders from the 80s. So I remember you telling me this story because I had never heard it before. Oh, yeah. The preppy murders. Sorry, really quick. Before we get into the preppy murders, my friend Owen Ellickson is the one who suggested 13 Going on Murdy. And he, I think he either texted me or sent it. He was my boss on the first scripted show

I ever got to write on. And it was such an honor that he was paying attention at all or cared. It was just that weird thing where I was like, oh, this is a different thing than anything I've ever worked on before. Where there are people that I know that are paying attention, that are like in it with us, that know what's going on. That's not all that common here in big-time Los Angeles.

That's so true. Or if they are, people don't tell you. Right. Especially if they like it, because then it's like, I'm not going to give her a big head. Yeah, exactly. They're certainly, you know, but I mean, Owen's a great guy. So that made me laugh really hard. And that was, you know, that was it. That's a great title and a great suggestion. So again, thank you for that. I think we thanked him at the time.

Okay, so let's listen to Karen's story about the preppy murders. This episode is brought to you by No CD. Sometimes you're going about your day and suddenly an intrusive thought hits. Now everyone has these thoughts, but for people with OCD they stick and cause serious distress. NoCD is here to help with therapy designed specifically for OCD. NoCD is a virtual therapy provider for OCD with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD so they understand intrusive thoughts. These intrusive thoughts might be violent or frightening in nature, so they can seem taboo, but here's the thing, they're more common than you think. In fact, almost everyone has

them. But for people with obsessive-compulsive disorder or OCD, they tend to feel sticky and cause a lot of distress. That's what makes OCD so debilitating. The thoughts can feel so real that seeking help can seem like a huge risk. If you're feeling this way, having the right kind of care and support can make a huge difference, and that's where NoCD can help. Every NoCD therapist is trained in exposure

and response prevention. It's a type of therapy specifically designed for OCD, and it's considered the gold standard treatment. NoCD also accepts many major insurance plans and offers always-on support between sessions, so you're never alone. To learn more about therapy with NoCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. That's nocd.com to learn more and book a free 15-minute call. Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace. Hey, Canada, Karen here to apply

a little peer pressure. You know that project you've been thinking about starting? Do it. Turn your vision into a reality. All the cool kids are doing it. Whether you need a website to start a new business or build your own brand, Squarespace is here to help. They make creating and managing a website easy and intuitive. With Squarespace Blueprint, you can build a custom website fast. Choose from professionally curated layouts and styling options to build a unique online presence from the ground up, tailored to your brand or business, and optimized for every device. You can also upload and organize video content in your library. There's even an option to add a paywall if you're hoping to

monetize. Plus the Squarespace payment process couldn't be easier. And in eligible countries you can offer buy now pay later options. And now Squarespace's new and improved SEO tools will help you connect to the right audience fast. Build something new with Squarespace. Go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch go to squarespace.com slash murder promo code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website. That's squarespace.com slash murder and use promo code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

Do you want to go first first I will go first 80s murder that's what makes 80s makes you think of yeah but immediately Cyndi Lauper yeah cuz I was a total 80s kid so this murder happened I completely remember it it was 1986 I was 16 this was like right, right there when I was starting to go like, oh shit, like the real world is heavy duty. 16 is realizing that yeah, bad things can happen. Yeah. And yet was I still a blackout drunk? You bet I was lady. Did I still walk alone at night? Hell yeah. Absolutely. It's, I was the queen of the kidnapping in my town. Right.

So my murder is the Preppy murder. Do you remember that? Preppy murder. Robert Chambers and Jennifer Levin, New York City, 1986. No, tell me everything. Okay, so this was big because back then, and this, it's so funny to talk about and to look it up because it now seems like 100 years ago Right, but in the 80s the big thing back then was being rich

It this was like a little bit after Revenge of the Nerds Yeah Where people started to acknowledge that there was another way to be besides popular rich blonde skinny on coke and wearing an eyes on shirt Right. It's like us against them kind of a thing. Exactly. But up until that point, it was basically like, this is the only thing you can be and if you're anything else, you're just invisible and no one gives a shit about you or you'll get beaten up and thrown into a garbage can. So that was, it was very much like the greed is good Gordon Gekko era of like the poster that had the Porsche with the naked lady on

it that was like boys and their toys. It's like standard fare. It's like everyone, everyone was assumed to be reaching for the same goal of being wealthy. Exactly. And now when you watch American Psycho, which seems totally insane now, it really was like that. That's just like a satirized campy version of exactly how it was.

So in August 26, 1986, it was right before people were going back to college or going away to college for the first time. And there was a bar, I believe it was the Upper West Side. I should have written it down. Sorry, it could be the Upper East Side, but I think it was the Upper West Side. And it was called Dorian's Red Hand. And that's where all the rich kids, prep school kids used to go. They could actually go there and drink underage. And their parents kind of knew that that's where they went.

And they liked that they went there as opposed to anywhere else. Oh my God, like they knew where they were. Yeah, they knew where they were. It was a little bit of a clubhouse. It was very insider-y. And it was like a very specific sect of like from like 17 to 23 year olds that went to this bar. And they probably weren't blackout drunks too. It was like you have a reputation, you need to hold your shit. So it's not like they were going to some dive bars.

Right. It was like networky and kind of clubby, but I think there was a ton of Coke back then. Oh my God. The eighties ate all the Coke. They did. And at the beginning of the eighties, they thought Coke wasn't bad for you. Right. They honestly believed it was like B12, which is the greatest. So anyway, at this bar is a guy named Robert Chambers. And he was, I found an Old People magazine article from 1986. I bet it's worth so much money.

Which is, well, it was online. But yeah, if I had the real thing. But it talked about, here's how it described him. Robert Chambers seemed like every teen girl's dream. The son of a record promoter, he grew up in an elegant townhouse next to Carnegie Mansion. And as a child, he belonged to the Knickerbocker Grays, which was an anachronistic, but very upper-crust boys drill team whose members have included Vanderbilts, Roosevelt, and Rockefeller's. He was no scholar but he'd been a debate team member soccer star at York Preparatory School. He was a rather charming pleasant society boy

sums up his former headmaster. Every girl had a crush on him. So he would have never dated us is what you're saying. Oh no this guy if I was in the bar with him he would have looked past me like I was part of the wallpaper. Oh my God. But he had kind of fallen on hard times. And the thing is with the perspective of knowing that this was a world of like, spary topsiders, people like, I grew up in a farm town and people tried to pretend like they were preppies. Because preppy was basically saying, you go to prep school, you're rich. And no one was in my town,

yet tons of people tried to dress like that. That was like the molo culture and the look of, yeah. Of the day. Clean cut wealth. Totally. And like influence too. Because if you were preppy, like yeah, he went to school with fucking Vanderbilt's, you have influence. Exactly. So his parents got divorced,

and then the money stopped coming in from the dad and he also They say from age 14. He had a pretty bad drug habit. So His parents had separated he got kicked out of Boston University for bad grades And that was he was only 19 when this happened. So he'd only been there for a year So he fucked up there pretty quickly according to his advisor He'd been treated the spring before a drug rehab program in Minnesota for coke, but he came back to New York City and was, quote unquote, on the circuit. He was 6'3", 220 pounds, and he was as popular as ever when he came back. Did you see a photo of him? He was super hot.

Yes. You know who he looks like. He's see a photo of him? He was super hot. Yes. You know who he looks like? Who? He's like kind of a more buffed out. You remember the reporter from Making a Murderer who was that good looking guy? Oh God, he's so cute. He looks like that guy but with a crazier, more cartoony square chin. Wow.

So like good jeans. Sharp-faced. The kind of the first guy you would see when you walk into a bar. Did he have your favorite attribute of a person? High forehead. Did he, Karen? I think he did. He was perfectly set up.

He was like tall, football player looking, blue eyes, dark hair, big eyebrows. How does none of those children ever turn out like just kind of ugly or plain? No because it's there. It's all the breeding. It's like those rich people don't pick plain people. It's not like I love this handsome woman for her brain. That never fucking happens. Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of ever. So anyway. So he was there and then this girl, Jennifer Levin, was there and she was described as a magnet. Everyone seemed to gravitate toward her. She was 5'7", 120 pounds brunette with great style.

She was voted best looking and best figure in our senior class yearbook. She liked parties better than books, but she had a goal. She had saved $1,600 from working in a restaurant over the summer and she was sending herself to junior college. So she wasn't a rich girl. No, but she was like in the mix. So I think she was like, she may have gone to those schools, but no, it sounded like she was more, yeah, she was more of a maid herself.

She's the perfect murder victim. Self-made. That's right. Well, the thing is like her, she had an uncle that wrote for Sports Illustrated. I don't remember what her parents did I do remember Very distantly reading a big long article about her either in the New York Times or the New Yorker But it was all about how her parents were more like the arty types like someone had money somewhere But like she had to earn her own. Yeah, and so you'll see this girl gets

Totally fucking reamed by these, this defense attorney setup. I'm going to tell me, okay, keep going. I'm sorry. I've never, I don't know this one. I'm so excited. Okay. This was, this was kind of amazing and actually looking back on it now, I'm amazed of how

we all just ingested things. There was, you know, no internet. You just kind of took it as it was given to you. So, um,, this is just a quick story. She had charm. Her family recalled what happened one day three weeks ago, three weeks before the murder when she, riding in a taxi, told the cabbie that she was nervous about her impending driver's exam. Before long, the hack had shut off the meter and was tutoring her in parallel parking. So that's how charming she was.

She never got to take that test because she went to Dorian's Red Hand that night and everyone was there kind of saying goodbye and like everyone's going off to college, whatever. And Robert Chambers is there. Now they had dated a little bit before that. Robert Chambers' current girlfriend breaks up with him in front of everybody by throwing a bag of condoms at him and saying, you're not going to be using these with me anymore. And people think that the reason she broke up with him was because of Jennifer Levin, that she found out that he had been cheating on her with Jennifer Levin.

That's a theory. I didn't find anything that was like, this is definitive. But it is definitive that this girl very publicly humiliated him and broke up with him in the really hideous way. So at four, somewhere, there was a couple different times listed in different articles I read. Somewhere between 3.45 and 4.30 in the morning, Jennifer and Robert Chambers leave this bar

and walk across the street into Central Park, which is apparently the common thing as people would like. They said if Dorian's Red Hand was the meat market, Central Park was the grill. So you'd meet somebody and chat with them and everyone would go into the park to have sex. That sounds rough. Like that was a dangerous park back then, wasn't it? Fuck yeah! Yeah. Like what respectable girl wants to get boned in Central Park? But I guess it was kind of like also Upper West Side, if it is West Side, which I think

it is. I remember walking there when I lived in New York and being shocked at how safe it seemed. I was walking home at like 11 o'clock at night. The streets are super busy, well lit. There's a doorman every 500 feet. That's true. I think also they lived in a world where they thought nothing could ever happen to them. Right.

So two hours later, Jennifer's body is found by a bicyclist in riding through Central Park. It's found behind the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Her shirt and bra are pushed up around her neck. Her skirt is above her waist and her underwear are 50 yards away. And her whole body is bruised and battered, has cuts and bite marks all over it. Wow. So the police start processing the scene and they don't say how they know this, but I found this in every article about this. Robert Chambers watched the police process the scene from across the street. He lived like minutes away walking distance.

And he watched them as like they put up the tape and did the whole thing. Probably like the doorman said he was standing outside the door or something. Yeah, someone saw it. So basically, when the cops do their footwork, they find out that he's the last person seen with her. So they go to his fancy townhouse, he opens the door and he's got scratches on his face and arms. And it's, when you see the picture, it literally is like one long one in the middle, little ones down the side. It's a hand scratch down his face. And he had them on his arms and he said it was his cat.

Then the cops find out the cat had been declawed. So then he changes the story and said, yes, I did leave the bar with her, but then she left to go get cigarettes. I never saw her after that. Well, she didn't smoke. So then finally they get him. He has a taped confession and this is what his taped confession is. He says, he and Jennifer had gone from the bar to Central Park where they had sex, including a bondage game in which Levin tied up Chambers wrists

with her panties. In the middle of this, in his version of events something went wrong. She hurt me he says I told her to stop she wouldn't so freeing his hands He he said I pulled her backwards and then he claims he hit her once and that's how she got killed So unfair dude, that's so unfair Well the just the assistant district attorney who was in that interview said to him, I've been in this business a while and you're the first man I've seen raped in Central Park. So people weren't buying it from the outset. It upsets me so much when a person like him can't just, you're taking a little responsibility,

just go the whole way instead of blaming it on her. It's so unfair. I know, but it's, we are talking about, this is like, I'm sure part of it, this is a drug addict. This is a person who's slowly sliding down the status, the status mountain. And he probably is used to getting everything he wants and having everything go his way. And if he's a narcissist and possibly a sociopath, he's not going to handle this correctly ever or cop to it. And he probably doesn't have the kind of parents that are like, hey, guess what?

Do the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. All is true. I'm coming at it from my own personality. Why can't things be good? Right. Yeah, of course.

So this race scenario was considered to be highly unlikely in the light of the fact that Chambers was more than a foot taller than Jennifer. She was, oh, this says she was five foot four. That's much different than five seven, which is from the different article. Anyway, but he was a foot taller than her and a hundred pounds heavier than her. So everyone's just like, yeah, I don't think so. Now here's the problem. The way his defense attorneys did it, the articles that start coming out,

because of course the media has to go with the grossest version of the story. So the New York Daily News had headlines like how Jennifer courted death and sex play got rough. And her reputation was totally attacked Jennifer courted death and sex play got rough. And her reputation was totally attacked while Chambers was portrayed as a Kennedy-esque preppy altar boy with a promising future. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, why media? Why? I mean, and it's that gross thing of like, I see, you see people talking about it online all the time now where it's like that Planned P shooter where they were like, he was sad and lonely. And it's like, why are we talking about how hard it was for the guy who just shot all these people were not talking about the victim?

Maybe they were sad and lonely too, but they didn't fucking shoot anyone. I mean, it's the weird media bias that we're all starting to become more and more aware of. And it's like one outlet picks it up and the others all have to go along with it. Right. And it's the same thing as these days of clickbait. It's just the old version of clickbait. In court, the defense sought to depict Levin as a promiscuous woman who kept a quote unquote

sex diary, except for that never existed. She had a small notebook that contained the names and phone numbers of her friends and notations of ordinary appointments. So she just had like a day runner like everybody else. And they tried to say she had a sex diary and she was that much of a slut. Even as if, Hey, guess what? Even if that was true, you don't get to murder her. But in the eighties, that's a legitimate defense. Yeah. But these tasks, tactics, luckily, they were met with public outrage and there were protesters demonstrating outside the courtroom

calling themselves Justice for Jennifer. So people got super pissed that that's the way they did it. And the prosecutors came right out and said he was high and drunk and he killed her in a rage because he could not perform sexually and that's really what happened. The jury deadlocked for nine days, a plea bargain was struck in which Chambers pleaded guilty to a lesser crime of manslaughter in the first degree, which is a Class B felony, and to one count of burglary for thefts from 1986. Who cares about that? So he served from March 22nd, 1988 to February 14th, 2003. And then, but he's still in jail now because he got out and almost immediately got arrested again

for selling drugs. Like he tried to move to the South with his girlfriend, then he moved back to New York and basically just they got him immediately and he's still in jail now. What was it like in jail for him that he immediately went out and sold drugs? He just didn't learn a fucking thing. He didn't. Yeah, he never got clean and I think he probably, knowing that that was something he would have to face once he did, he's just like, fuck it. How did he get paroled if he wasn't even fucking reformed or like...

I mean, right? These are the questions that we ask every fucking episode. Seriously. Now, but here's the gross part or a grosser part. In April 1988, the tabloid television program, A Current Affair, obtained and broadcast a home video showing Chambers at a party when he was free on bail. So this was before he before the trial. And he was shown in the video playing with four lingerie clad girls, choking himself with his hands while making loud gagging noises, twisting a Barbie doll's

head off and saying in a falsetto, my name is oops, I think I killed it. And there is a movie called The Preppy Murderer starring William Baldwin and Laura Flynn Boyle as Jennifer Levin that you can watch if you want to hear even more of that hideous story. That makes me so sad. I wanna know how his parents, how they reacted, what they're doing now. They keep in touch with him.

I wanna know everything. Well, and also there was a ton of like, to me this is about, he was very Catholic. He had a lot of family in the Catholic church in New York City. There was a lot of like Anglican, not Anglican, but his Catholic priests coming forward and people kind of attesting because he was this fucking altar boy. It was all that shit. And it's to me, it's the sexuality issue between the Catholics and Jewish people where it's

a healthy normal thing to have sex and be sexual. So she was Jewish and he was Catholic. Yep. And I think it was there is that cultural thing of like, oh, yeah, but she deserved it or she was loose or she did stuff like this. Or she was like asking for it. She was asking for it. I mean, the tying up thing is interesting to me because, all right, let's say you were

going to go into Central Park to fool around when you're drinking. Like you just have a quick fuck. You don't role play and get into, you know what I mean? Like I can't imagine someone being like, let's get so complicated into like our sex acts that we play with bondage in a park, maybe at home, but not in a park not a park and also in my opinion the way that her clothes were It does not sound like she was she was Complicit in what was happening her shirt and bra being pulled up to her neck Yeah, everything just seems like I get it if it's a quickie you leave your clothes on pull your skirt

Yeah, fine. You know what I mean? Like it's that kind of shit. And then being bitten all over, like nothing lines up to anything being casual sex at all. No, it's violent. Absolutely not. It is. So he's still in prison then. He's still in prison. Thank God. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't know, it makes me happy that people were protesting, but I think it's a really good thing of when you get fed a story of like, the whole idea of rough sex was completely a fabrication on his part, and then this fucking newspaper just runs with it.

So it's like, oh, they had rough sex and it went out of control. No, no, no. She thought she was gonna have a fun makeout session with the cutest guy in the bar, and he fucking killed her. I wonder where they got the information that they had dated before, because that suggests that she was willing, willing.

So I wonder if that's even true. Well. Or what it means that they, maybe they went out on a date. Yeah, exactly. To me, when it says, well, they went out before, it's like, well, they had screwed before, and they were gonna screw again in the park. So maybe that wasn't true, and yeah, he raped her. her. Because it sounds like they had had sex before from the information but that could not

be true at all. Well also you know what makes me think of is like this we all like people for superficial reasons at first. So it's like it's the tall really good looking guy who I'm sure was incredibly charming because he knew how to mix in and blend in to make sure he could fit in with the rich kids. And so I'm sure it's that thing of like the guy that you love in the bar, but then when shit goes down and like, it's like they're making out he can't get hard. It's her fucking fault. Totally. It's that creepy thing where it's like, you don't know who people really are until like the shit goes down. Especially if you have a coat deck. Yeah.

Everyone knows what coat deck is, right? I hope so. That'll be a very special episode. I hope people who listen to this know that because otherwise it's just people that shouldn't be listening to this at all. So that's mine. Wow. I had never heard of that one.

Really? I couldn't read when it happened. So maybe that was kept away from me. Yeah, probably. Yeah. And it's so, they made it as sort of as possible. Yeah. God, that's so awful. Okay. That was some real live 80s bullshit right there. I mean, obviously we were new at this because I sang Sandy Lauper.

You're not allowed to do that. No, we don't do it like that anymore. You certainly cannot do that. No. Yeah, this is an awful case. Obviously I said it in the episode Robert Chambers went to prison for first degree manslaughter. He was released in 2003. He served the whole sentence. Then he went back

to prison on a drug charge and an assault conviction unrelated to the case. He was released from prison in July of 2023 at the age of 56. He served 15 years on that drug charge and assault conviction. And he's going to remain under strict parole guidelines until at least 2028. This case is so upsetting, the way they dragged her name in the press and made it, you know, it's one of those, but look at this bright young man and his future. And meanwhile, that she started to talk about basically her reputation. Yeah. Like, it's so craven.

I will use that word because it's disgusting and that idea that you're going to both sides rape and strangulation is just like, sorry, what are you doing? The like, we were having consensual, rough sex in the park excuse is so in the middle of the fucking night, you know, it's just so absurd Worth an argument. It's worth kind of saying hey as a member of the press We're not gonna entertain his defense argument right as an actual headline totally as truth. Oh Yikes, or if I'm the 80s, I mean it's It's just weird and I think there's young people today, they just don't understand where we've come from.

They don't like that idea where that was normal to us. That was seeing things like that in the media, where it's like, well, but what did she do to deserve it? Totally. Was absolutely the way we grew up. Yeah, absolutely. What was she wearing? If you don't do this, you won't be like that too.

So make sure you're whatever the way, you know, an innocent quote person would act and you'll be fine. And that it just went on question for years. It's like, that's what we came up on. It's just, especially seeing it in the light of day now. It's so gross. It's reprehensible. It is.

Okay, now we're going to listen to George's story about, uh, this story drives me insane. I know. Like, I hadn't heard of this story until I found it on the Facebook group. And now we hear about it all the time, thankfully. I just couldn't believe how under the radar it was as someone who's interested in true crime that I had never heard about it. And it needs to be solved and it needs to be talked about more. It's still not solved. So all right let's listen to George's story about the Keddie murders in cabin 28. Well actually so my murder from the 1980s is one that I hadn't heard about until the Facebook group talked about it. You know about it.

But I had never heard of this one and it's so intense and fucked up that I wanted to talk about it in case other people hadn't heard it too because I want to ruin everyone's life. Yeah, I'm so excited. And I guess there's like fucked up photos online that you could see of the crime scene with the bodies.

The ones I saw, the bodies are like blacked out. But you can see certain things about it too. And I guess the photos are really troubling and I'm shocked that I didn't click on it. Yes. Do you mind if I guess? Yes. Is it Cabin 23, the Keddie murders? It sure is. Fuck yes. I only know very little.

It's Cabin 28. Oh, see, I don't know that much. But I love this one because it's so fucking weird and mysterious. And it's so fucking weird and mysterious. And it's not that far from your hometown, right? Well, it's hours in, but it's like, it's central California, which is a very weird area. Northern central California is like no man's land. Totally, totally. I mean, it's back, for California, it's backwoods. Yes.

Which is so surprisingly, you come to LA and you go to San Francisco and you, you know, all these little towns and you don't think it's like that, but then you, but nope. Yeah, there's a lot of little towns, little mining towns and such where people just stayed and cooked meth. That's exactly right. It's like bikers and drugs, essentially. Yeah, please don't kill us. There's definitely good bikers out there. There's very good bikers and drugs, essentially. Please don't kill us. There's definitely good bikers out there. There's very good bikers out there for sure. I'm just making sure that OK.

All right. So the Kedie murders, K-E-D-D-I-E, it's an unsolved 1981 American quadruple homicide that occurred in Kedie, California, which was a former resort town in the foothills of California's Sierra Nevada. And so it seemed like this little forested area with cabins, a bunch of cabins. The murder took place in cabin 28 during the late evening of April 11th, 1981 or the early morning of the 12th. So there were three victims, as I I said The first one was Sue her name was Glenna Sue sharp and she was 36 and her son John who was 15 and John's friend

Dana Wingate who was 17 and at some point After the crime it was realized that Sue's daughter Tina who was 12 was missing Sue's daughter, Tina, who was 12, was missing. So what happened was Sue sharpened her five children, had been renting the cabin since November 1980, and on the night of April 11th, it's so complicated because Sue is home with her two youngest boys, who are little kids, and a friend of theirs named Justin was staying the night. So there were three little kids in the back bedroom, three boys. And this is a tiny cabin. You can see pictures online of the crime scene and what a small cabin it was.

And Tina came home, their oldest, Sue's oldest daughter stayed at the cabin next door, which is always like, you know, like the chances, man. Yes. You know, and Tina, the 12 year old was wanting to stay with them. And they were like, no, we want, you know,

we're the older girls, we want to be alone. Which like, the guilt that old was wanting to stay with them and they were like, no, we're the older girls, we wanna be alone. Which like, the guilt that she must have carried with her. The worst. The older sister for the rest of her life. So it's 10 p.m. And the next morning, the older sister, Sheila, comes home and finds Sue and her brother

and her brother's friend Dana just brutally murdered, brutally murdered. Let's see. All three victims had been bound with medical tape and electrical appliance wire. Over 22 feet of medical tape of varying widths were found on the bodies and there was no medical tape in the house so it came from somewhere else. The bodies had been bludgeoned with hammers, two distinct sized hammers, so two different hammers and Sue and John had been stabbed repeatedly including stab wounds to the throat which is like, fuck stabbiness man. Is that going to be inspirational? No. It is to me. Like stabby in the head and neck is like, because how long does it take to die from a stab wound? Dude, I don't know,

but it just makes me think of my favorite show, I Survived, and there are people who talk about being stabbed in the head. And it actually isn't so bad for the person because there aren't that many nerves in your head. But of course it is. I mean, that's a terrible thing to say. Not bad, but I mean like, but yeah, it's horrifying. Just being stabbed is horrifying. I know a guy who got his fucking throat slit and survived. I wanna meet that person.

He was at the beach with his friends and some like fucking psycho like meth had gotten a fight with him and he was walking away and the guy came up behind him and he has like a gnarly like tried to kill him. Whoa. Guys can we just say this right now? Don't do meth. Absolutely. Meth is like it's basically meth is like Devil powder it's boiling. It's like boiling your brain and all your your fucking logical thinking It's not good if you're if you have a temper to begin with it's just gonna fuck coke too. Don't snort shit Yeah, no don't snort it But but meth I've a friend Dave who was on meth for years and he couldn't get off of it because it's insanely cheap

Dave who was on meth for years and he couldn't get off of it because it's insanely cheap and it's highly addictive and yet it's there's shit in it that should never be in the human body. No, terrible. Oh my God, trash in it. We do not condone meth on this podcast. And absolutely not. No way. We don't condone murder either, even for our own entertainment.

Please. No, we're against it. We do want to discuss it though. We do. But if you guys murder someone and you blame it on my favorite murder, we will not talk about it. Let's just agree that right now. Yeah, you won't get famous on this.

No, we will not talk about it. That's good. We should have said that in the beginning. If this is somehow tied to the Facebook group, if you guys, they keep wanting to have meetups. We have nothing to do with that. We're not going to talk about it. I don't condone a meetup from my favorite murder group unless it's going to a live show that we're doing.

And even then, please don't murder us. Guys, please just be careful. Oh my God. Be careful. Don't get stabbed in the head. Anyway, keep going. Anyways, stabbed in the head. Anyways, stabbed in the head. We actually that like that going off like that is a little methy of us.

Yeah. Which part? How we just went down that path. We both had like three cups of coffee. Yeah, that's very true. At lunch we both had a lot of coffee. So found near John's body was a flimsy table knife and a bloody hammer, seven inch butcher knife was found nearby as well.

Fuck man, seven inch butcher knife. Examination of the bodies determined that each of the victims had been bludgeoned with hand, I already said all that, stab wounds to the throat. Dana, the boy who wasn't the, who was the the friend was manually strangled to death and bludgeoned with another weapon while Sue was bludgeoned with a rifle brought by the killers. Such a weird one pellet from that rifle from fire from the rifle along with several pieces of the barrel sights. I don't know what that is. I can imagine we're removed from the scene, but the rifle itself has never recovered.

The barrel sights are the little things that stick up that help you aim at the end of the barrel when you're shooting. Are you a murderer? No country. It's just that's like BB gun, you know, like rifle stuff. I think I'm right. I'm pretty sure. I believe it.

Don't correct us. That's our new thing. We never want to be correct. Don't correct us. It's going new thing. We never want to be correct. Don't correct us. It's going to be on the back of the shirts we make. If we're wrong, let it be. Don't be a no at all. A bloody knife was also found among evidence found in the trap. So basically the cops completely bungled this investigation. So Tina is missing. She's the 12 year old girl, which

they didn't realize right away. And because the whole fucking family's dead, right? Well the three boys in the back are fine and alive and supposedly didn't hear anything, but there's conflicting evidence. There's a blood stain on the door of the kids room and the and this one of the main suspects, his son, was one of the kids in the back room. So why wouldn't he kill that kid? And it's also, there's also, you know, who was the target of this murder and why? And it's thought that Sue, the mom, was because she knew something maybe about drug making, maybe she was, you know, one of the prime suspect's wife hated her

and didn't know that the boys would be home because I guess they were at a local bar and hitchhiked home and weren't expected to be home. So this murderer might have come in to either rape her something and got, and didn't expect Tina, the little 12 year old girl, would be sharing a room with the mom. So then had to kidnap her. So she's gone. She's found four years, she's found in 1984, her skull and several other bones were recovered in Butte County.

And was that far away? I don't know. But, a skull was initially found and they thought it was of a young boy and an anonymous caller called twice and said it's actually Sue, or it's actually Tina. Oh. And guess how many tapes they lost of that recording. Both of them.

All of them. So the anonymous caller recording. Both of them. All of them. So the anonymous caller, no trace of him. It also is said- Who used to- I don't know, it doesn't matter. I know. It's also said that a teacher had an obsession with Tina. So maybe that was the case because she was missing. But they were able to age the skull. She was the same age. She was killed pretty much right away. So it's not like she was stolen and kidnapped and held. Kept, yeah.

Yeah, so she was killed. Let's see. So the boys, okay, the boys were found uninjured. The case grew cold. Let's see, they released the original and backup copy of the audio, the anonymous call to an undisclosed member of law enforcement and they were released to the same person and they disappeared. Let's see, the murders remain unsolved. Although it's active because good old fucking Reddit is like on the case. And this is where I got a lot of information from, including the main suspects,

which is Martin Smart and his friend John Bobed, B-O-U-B-E-D, Bo-B-D? Bo-B-D. So Smart was a next door neighbor who was good friends with the local sheriff, like besties with the local sheriff, right? And it was Smart's stepson who was staying in the cabin, who was the little kid in the back. And then when he was questioned by law enforcement, he slipped up and said,

he's quiet enough to where he could have noticed something without me detecting him, indicating your stepson was a quiet kid that might have seen you at a murder scene. Right? And then those other kids, the little other little kids terrified. Oh my God. Oh my God. Right? Let's see. And then Bo Beattie had FBI connections and was federally prosecuted because some of organized crime shit. So this guy was a fucking criminal as well. And it's like, I was reading this shit and there are so many

criminals that were in this town that it was like a multitude of suspects could have been even. Let's see. Hold on. Let's see. There were question circumstantial evidence, but the reopening the case. Oh, but they're reopening the case. But they've both died of natural causes since then. Those two suspects? Yeah, which is like such a bummer that when the main suspects die, and even when they keep searching and like come to the conclusion, it's just such a bummer. Well, what's super weird to me is usually when people get killed because they find out something they're not supposed to know about

say a case or a drug deal or whatever, you don't get bludgeoned and stabbed a bunch of times. That's personal. That's true. And so Sue's body was tied up in a way that was super sexual, but she wasn't raped. She was basically found naked from the waist down, splayed open in a humiliating manner. Which is like, it's almost like they're wanting the person who finds them to be, you know, freaked the fuck out. Yeah. Luckily,

integrate her. Right. Luckily, the older sister was smart enough to make the little boys in the back room come out of the window so they didn't have to see the scene. And the other thing is the kid, the kid who, who wasn't part of the family, his head was placed on like a pillow. So it's almost like they were taking care of him as if they knew him. And he, and he wasn't killed in the same manner that the other kids were killed. Like he was basically just a witness and had to go. Right. So maybe they were, you know, it sounds like someone was pissed off at this woman

and this family and fucking sent some kind of message to whom, I don't know. It's also said that there's a sketch of a suspect that I think one of the kids drew because they did say they saw someone or one of the kids. And it looks a lot like, it's very similar to Ing and Lake. And they lived about four hours south of Keddie, which is of course, the big serial killers. And if you look at the sketch online, it fucking looks like them.

Apparently Ing was, Charles Ing might have been in prison at the time, although it's kind of unclear with it. It's a sketch of one person or two people. I can't really tell it. It might be a sketch of one person in two different looks. Oh, I see. But it does definitely look like Lake was like first name Leonard like Leonard Lake. Thank you, Lord. So I was so proud that I just thought of that. I know

I'm really impressed with you. I never remember anything. I don't either. We're perfect for having podcasts, right? Sure. So in the, in the, in this past couple months, the Plumas County Sheriff Greg Hagward has said we're arriving at points where we're going to be taking some next steps in the case. And they're crediting Reddit. Yes. They're like straight up. Oh, I love that. It's because these fucking people who become obsessed with the case and are like dissecting

it completely. It's pretty amazing. They tore down the cabin recently because people were just like fucking going there all the time. Hagwood said there are people, some still living in the county who know what happened and were possibly involved, whether directly or after the fact. And circumstantial evidence was never enough to charge these two guys that everyone thinks did it. And so Dana Wingate, the kid who was a friend who came over, was not killed in the same fashion as the other two. He was beaten but not stabbed. He was strangled and was made comfortable by receiving a cushion from the couch to rest his head on prior to the execution. And you can see photos where like his head is blacked out, but you can see that his head is on a

fucking pillow and they're all like next to each other too, which is so awful to see each other die that way. Yeah. Okay. So the last thing I want to say about this is that so John and Dana, the two boys who were killed, the two men who were killed were last seen walking along state route 70 near Quincy's. They were on their way home and the crime may have already been in progress when they arrived at home. So I feel like Sue was the target, whether it was for rape or some kind of revenge or something like that. I think maybe she wasn't even supposed to get killed. So it sounds to me like it was

botched. And then they walked in and the whole thing turned into like, right, some kind of like a fight where then they had to kill everybody. Yeah, it sounds like it, except for the kids in the back who maybe was one of the suspects kid, stepson. Fucked up. Oh, and someone on Reddit wrote, Ketti holds many skeletons in its closet. There were in 1981 so many potential perps in town that you could have stood in the main street, thrown a dart with your eyes closed and hit one.

The Sharpe family were in this idyllic little resort town surrounded by child blasters, drug runners, professional criminals, corrupt cops and businessmen, habitual transient and at least one known serial killer. Fuck. I know. Who's the known serial killer, do you know? I don't know. I love that. I know. I had his name, but I had never heard of him

and I forgot to look him up because. That's incredible. I know. It's so, because it makes me think that they're reopening it now. Of course, because of the Reddit thing. I love the way this is like, people are just be like, fine, if you're not gonna solve it, we're gonna fucking solve it.

Yeah, and everyone keeps coming to the same conclusion. Yeah, that's amazing. But also, if it was an inside job or if it was some kind of like corrupt cop situation, those people, it's like their power is gone. And so there's like new blood that's like, yeah, we can't have this just sitting and being like defining our town. Well, actually, the main the new sheriff was around back then he initially got fired before the murders because he said something inflammatory against the then sheriff who was like, you're out of here. But then when he got back on the, he was reinstated,

they forbade him from researching this case. So now- That's weird. Yeah, now that he's the sheriff, he's like super fucking into it. It is on. And it's on. I wonder how much evidence is missing, like those tapes. Like I wonder how much people fucked with it. How hard it's on. I wonder how much evidence is missing like those tapes.

Like I wonder how much people fucked with it. Yeah. How hard it's gonna be. You know what I mean? Well, the fact that the main suspect was one of the sheriff's like best buds and evidence got lost says so much about it. Yeah, that's very suspicious.

Yeah, evidence doesn't just get lost. Right. Like very suspicious. Yeah. Evidence doesn't just get lost. Right. Um, you know how I first found out about this murder and it surprised me because it is in California, although it really is like a different state. That part of California is like, there just, no one lives up there. And then the people that do are the people who are trying to get away. Absolutely. Essentially. Um, but did you ever see the movie, the strangers? Oh, it's based on that. Well, that's what they Essentially. But did you ever see the movie The Strangers? Oh, it's based on that. Well, that's what they say. But they were like, because The Strangers was billed as a true story. But then when I after I saw The Strangers, I was like, that

was so fucking crazy. What's the true story? And they're basically like the Manson murders and the Keddie cabin murder. So I didn't I never saw that movie. It's not similar at all. Well, it's just people killing other people for no reason Essentially, it's the loosest version of it based on a true story Well, there is a documentary about this murder that came out in 2004 that I think it was some kind of teacher Was teaching his kids how to make a documentary and someone suggested this murder and the guy the teacher got obsessed with it So I guess there's a pretty good documentary online. You probably find it on YouTube. I think it's called Cabin 28.

Cabin 28. And it's just all the details of the murder. Love it. I watch that. Yeah, this was a good one. This was fun. I liked this one a lot. What should our next theme be?

We should pick it at the end of every episode, do you think? Let's do the 90s. Let's just go through the net. Honestly, yeah, let's do the 90s. Should we? Yeah. Okay, great. Because I found a lot of good ones and every time I saw a year or which one I was like,

damn it. That actually happened to me too. It was always like either the 70s or the 90s when I was looking. Okay, let's do the 90s this time and then maybe we can do the 70s next time. I wonder if there was like, in the 90s there was some, oh, I was just going to say if there's a rave murder or a junko jeans murder and we both know there was Yeah, there was an amazing Michaels. Is it Selig murder? Yeah, that was crazy party monster is a good movie The monster is a great movie. That's based on that. I'm sure everyone has seen it That's listening to this but oh my god, I went to raves and more jinkos

So dude, it's just once again it brings I hate to be like I don't want to sound like the church leader or anything because I've done plenty of drugs in my life. But they really are no one talks about how it's like, oh, pot is the gateway drug to, you know, harder drugs, but harder drugs are the gateway drug to murder. They really are. Yeah, I don't think I'm not going to say this because it's not true. But no one's no one's fucking killed anyone on pot that's not true at all yeah I'm sure it's but you know it is it's like someone's car just strangely listed over into you know like a guy riding a bike or something it's just

purely from being out of it did you hear that they just pulled two cars from like the 50s and 60s out of a lake and six people were found total and they were like missing people no and they these are my favorite. Yeah. Altogether? No their cars were side by side but they were like years apart that they just drove into this lake and they pulled these two cars that you can see the resting remains of these cars online. Do you remember what city or what state? I want to say Michigan because everything happens in Michigan but that could be totally wrong could be Ohio everything happens in Ohio

Everything oh wait, which reminds me. This is my favorite thing I read on the Facebook page and so everyone else probably already read it But I just want to say this because it's so fucking awesome So there have been all these bodies washing up in this small town in Ohio Yeah, and the rust belt and there's a bunch of articles about it There was a guy who posted my hometown murder because I think that's probably where he's from. And then someone did an update, which is an article from Jezebel, about how a sex worker in Las Vegas shot a guy that was trying to murder her and she killed him. And it turned out he had a full on murder kit in his car. He had no money to pay her. He had bleach. He had handcuffs. He had all this, all this stuff. There was no way it

wasn't a murder. He had done it before. He had done it before. He had told her he was going to jail for a very long time, right before he thought he was going to kill her. And he had been a security guard at Hoover Dam, which creeped me out for some reason so badly. It's because when people are in some kind of power or authority, you trust them. Yeah. But they think that this guy might be connected to those Rust Belt murders because he has been in both places. Or at least they're like thinking that if he wasn't connected to that, he's definitely

killed people before. And she grabbed his gun in some kind of tussle, right? Yep. He was strangling her and she got his gun away from him and shot him dead. Good for her. Fuck yeah. Listen, if you're going to fight back, you got a shoot to kill. Do it.

He's going to kill you. I think about that often. Like if I had the chance to, if I had that chance, I would shoot someone in the fucking head. I wouldn't shoot them in the leg and debilitate them. Also it would be very difficult if you were not a trained professional to then be like, here's how I'm going to incapacitate this person. It's like someone's trying to kill you, you try toitate them. Also, it would be very difficult if you were not a trained professional to then be like, here's how I'm going to incapacitate this person. It's like someone's trying to kill you, you try to kill them.

That's just like how we build. Well, Karen knows how to use a gun, so don't fucking come after her. Apparently, I just learned that today. Yeah. Every podcast, I'm going to reveal a little bit more and then it's going to turn out that I too am a serial killer. What if you killed me? Oh, you know, the safety that you just flip the safety off.

What if in our hundredth episode you murder me? I feel like it would be a great ending. I don't see what the problem is. Let's say 200. Okay. Or 250. Okay. Alright we have to finish.

Okay. Thanks for listening you guys. Facebook, Twitter, blah blah blah. You know where to find us. Thanks for being there. Thanks for listening. K-bye. Stay sexy, Karen.

Don't get murdered. I think this is a very, like you and I being honest about drugs and alcohol and the actual experience that we had, that kind of thing of like don't do meth. Yeah. Don't do meth. Take it from us. Don't do meth.

Don't do it. Just don't do it is, I mean, yeah, I don't know. Add it to the list of things we just didn't know we were doing. Right. Yeah. Innocent. But it's like, what if us talking about that's going to help a 13-year-old not do it?

I hope so. All right. Well, 13. God, you're young. I know. I know. So young. So unfortunately, there's no updates on this case. And I think that the investigation was so bungled that like there's just not a lot of there's it's just yeah, I wish it would be solved. It seems like everyone kind of knows who did it. But I don't think that'll ever be. I don't think they'll be brought to justice, unfortunately.

You mean because like the people in the town? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's clear when you tell, like when you read about the story, who did it, who had motive, who had opportunity, who had means, it's like clear. But yeah, who knows? Got to have that evidence. Got to have it. Because also, sometimes it's clear, and then that isn't the person. Right? That's a very good point.

Yes. Which is like, it's almost, and I don't know what qualifies as like a mass murder. I'm sure there's a very specific number. Yeah. But it's killing so many people. Yeah. It's just why.

And children. Horrible. And also, you mentioned in the, which this is also very fascinating, Aaron pointed out that in the show you mentioned that there was a serial killer up there at the time, right? People were saying, but no one knows who that serial killer is. I do.

It's Leonard Lake. So he was just like, he lived up there. I don't know if he, I know he was up there at some point and then one of the kids drew a sketch of the killer and it looked like Leonard Lake. Oh, okay. All right. Well, so should we get to what the title would be? I mean, 13 going on, Murdy. It's pretty hard to top that, right? It's tough, but you know, that's a professional sitcom writer. So yeah, totally. There's pink

triangles and light blue dots, which was me explaining what the 80s were like. That's exactly it. It really was. And then appetizer happy hour, which is you saying that before we get into the main course of the show, we talk about the tabloid and all that stuff. It's the Appetizer Happy Hour. Two of my favorite fucking things in one. For real. You know? I think Owen still wins.

Yeah, I hope. Those aren't gonna stop it. They just can't. Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Rewind, you guys. We really appreciate you listening and enjoying, if you do. Yeah, come back every Wednesday. And if you want to walk down memory lane with us, this is basically what we do.

And sometimes there are case updates. This is just a bad combination of not really, but there's always things to look back on. There is, if you feel like it, give us a fucking five stars or rate, review, subscribe, whatever. We appreciate you. However you feel at this moment in time. Yeah.

And other than that, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?