My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 14: You Sexy Motherfourteen

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 14 – You Sexy Motherfourteen – where they talked about murders from the 1990s. Karen covered serial killer Joseph Naso and Georgia discussed the death of Sherrice Iverson. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!  Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder   Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-14-you-sexy-motherfourteen My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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points. Limited time offer, conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash Avion. ["My Favorite Girl"] Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen in Georgia. This is our not so new anymore Wednesday episode where we rewind to our earliest episodes and contemplate everything that has changed since 2016.

That's right. And today we're visiting episode 14 from Thursday, April 28th, 2016, and it's called You Sexy Mother 14. That's a good one. That is a good one. That is a good one. And also, we finally hit our stride with actually consistently releasing on Thursdays. It's like we were learning the trade of podcasting. You know, it's like how TV shows, they show up on that one day and then people know to be there for them. Yeah, it's the simple mathematics of podcasting. Yeah. Well, we finally caught on.

We did. And look at us now. Look. So, okay, it's time for you to get your tennis instructor, your favorite member of your book club, and your favorite Libra to listen along, because now we can all be day one listeners. And as day one listeners, let's listen to the very beginning of episode 14.

Okay, we're recording. Okay, good. Because we should do a podcast. I mean, we've had like an hour of deep conversation before this podcast even started. Yeah, we had to really connect and we just put some stuff on the table. It was important. Air some dirty laundry. Not even not like air some.

I think every episode I'm going to terribly sing a bad song. That'll be my new thing. Do you mind? No, because every episode you sing a good song. My notebook is so far away. I'm trying to reach my notebook. Georgia just stood up and it looked like she was starting to do stand-up comedy. We're both laying on the couch And then she jumped up and like took a pose

I was like can I make it to this dresser and get my notebook oops without and then yeah I looked like stand-up comedy. Oh, yeah, because those are your notes from your You're watching your show with the famous lawyers. Hey, let's get right into it. Okay. I was trying to do a long introduction, but now I can't remember their names. By the way, this is my favorite murder. Oh, hi. Yes.

Hi, guys. With Karen and Georgia. Welcome to episode 14. That's Karen on Georgia. Yeah. Do you want to give a shout out real quick before you start to the name of that? Because we have like, we started naming the episodes Weird Things and now we're just like on it. Now we're just trying to make each other laugh. And when we think of it, it's just basically a pun contest. The teens are hard. The teens are pretty tough.

And last week, 13 Going on murdy is the episode title that my friend Owen Ellickson DM'd me on Twitter and basically just said it was right after the number 12 dropped he just DM'd and it said next week should be 13 going on murdy. And you texted me that and I was like yep. There's no way it's not going to be. Can we have a contest for like, so we don't have to think of them anymore? Like people writing us. Sure, if you want to. Like 14, what is 14? What if we just open this whole podcast up and have other people do it?

What if all of it just, it's all, what are they called? Moderated. It's all moderated by other people. It's moderated, produced, and talked through, researched, and then performed by. It'll be fun. But it's by Karen and Georgia.

Yeah, we'll still own it. We'll own the copyright. Speaking of, I just bought the rights to Michael Ramsted's adorable drawing. Oh yes. Of my favorite murder. If you see the drawing of the two of us lying, it's a cute little cartoony drawing of us lying prone with like murder weapons around us. That's the one on the Facebook page. Yeah Michael Ramstead who's like this fucking incredible like incredible artist drew it just for fun because he's a nice guy. Thanks Michael Ramstead. And I was like hey can I buy that from you so we can

make t-shirts. So in the next few weeks hopefully. Oh yeah that because we we've got some spec t-shirts, right? Yeah, there's already a mock-up of the t-shirts. It's like, it's happening. You guys, you can have a t-shirt. Pretty soon. We'll all wear t-shirts around town. Yeah, and if we see you, we'll murder you.

Yeah, that's how we'll know to murder each other. That'd be amazing. What if that was the thing? Like what if this whole thing turns into a crazed cult where everyone just murders each other. What's that cosplay thing where you like, there's people, like if you're wearing a certain thing you have to murder, you have to like tag that person but it's pretend murder and then you're out of the game. Have you heard of that?

Is it Dungeons and Dragons? No. It's close though. Is it LARPing? Yes! Live action role playing! It's LARPing! How does she even know that? Is it the Renaissance Fair? I love nerds. I research their shit all the time. I want to know what they do on the weekends. LARPing. What a grand idea. Live action role playing. Do you know? That's so cool. Yeah. Well, we're nerds too, and you did something on the weekends.

We're murder nerds. Murder nerds. I did do something something I went to see string and beauty the ticket of the weekend everyone was talking about this show they say that right I think so okay so they were the defense attorneys for Stephen Avery from Netflix making a murderer who of course if you saw you fell in love with them and and are obsessed with them as I am They're good men trying to do good in an unjust world defense attorneys as a whole. I think are good people I Hope so, you know, I mean I wouldn't want to park next to them in a Trader Joe's parking lot

In general, right, but that's an LA lawyer thing. I like that they're defending his right to a fair trial. They're not being like, he's innocent. They're like, he this is you're doing these things wrong. You're doing everything wrong. State of Wisconsin. Like they're there. What I took away from this and I was like, this might be stupid. I'm so sick of my of making a murder like. I have read about it to death, like other theories and shit. I was up on the show, like hardcore. I was like, I don't want to fucking hear audience questions about the cat getting burned for fucking two hours

in an uncomfortable chair. I spilled half a glass of wine on myself right when I walked in. Oh, good. Red or white? Oh, red, of course. Perfect. Why would I glass of wine on myself like right when I walked in. Oh good. Red or white? Oh red of course. Perfect. Why would I spill white wine on myself?

And you were wearing your white lace blouse? Yeah. It was, and I started screaming. I was like, I was Carrie. It was great. So you were trying to make it as difficult as possible from the outset. Yep. And then what happened?

It was excellent. If you have a chance to see it everyone go. Like it was a really, if you're interested to crime and law, fascinating. A couple things I wrote down. Guess how many, okay, so witnesses who are exonerated because of a, because of, they were wrongfully convictedfully convicted Guess what out of ten how many are overturned? because of witness Misidentification so how many out of ten I just said I almost just said the number It's 11 out of 10 um

Well eight is it some crazy high number seven which is still a lot I shouldn't ask people that because it's like they it's like if it's higher than I'm like, oh well. Sorry. I always ruin our games like this by overshooting and then it's kind of like, well, it is still pretty high though. It is seven. Yeah, that's high.

Crazy high. So seven out of 10 overturned convictions are because of witness misidentification. Yeah, they say eyewitness identification is one of the least reliable forms of, uh, what do you call it? Of testimony? Sure, or I feel like by the clues. What's the word I'm looking for? Uh, evidence. That's right.

There we go. We have a true crime podcast. We should know these nouns. I feel like by 2050, they're going to be like, how fucking antiquated was 2010 and before that they fucking were relying on witness testimony? Yes, for sure. Well, because at that point, there will be so much CCTV cameras in every corner of our lives.

That is a fair point. That's probably what it will be. How do you feel about CCTV? I like it. I don't know. I don't. It's fine. I mean, I understand why people have a problem with it.

But the idea that you think, and maybe there'll be a dystopian future where we live in some terrible government state where they watch everything you do and it's all, you know, 1984. But for right now, that's how you fucking find the guy that walks up and hits someone on the back of the head and puts them in their car before anyone knows what happens. I feel like if you're a true crime fan, you agree with that. And I feel like if the laws are fair in general, then CCTV is okay. You know what I mean? If laws are like you can't smoke cigarettes and they're arresting people who are smoking cigarettes on CCD. You know like yeah That's bullshit. Once the laws get a little fucking crazier

then Which is like you can't really tell so yeah, but I just for now anytime I watch a British British procedural I'm always like well well, they're going to get this on CBCC. There's no problem. Like, it's such a comfort to me in my old age. The fact that they rely on like bank cameras, like that they, you know, when you see those that are like the bank camera caught the street for one second and saw this car drive by and

that's how they knew this person wasn't where they said they were. Yeah. Like if you're gonna rely on that and that's gonna be admissible. Throw a camera up there. Fucking listen I want to be safe. Who I mean are people is it just not wanting to be monitored and not wanting to introduce the concept of a police state like that? Yeah but, it's already happening. I think keeping citizens, and it's almost like, I feel like people will do less horrible things outside if they know they're being watched.

I know that's so naive. I think we're both, I think everyone in this whole conversation, whether they're forward against it, is being naive. Because if they don't think the government is already fucking following every single thing they say, they're forward against it is being naive because if they don't think the government is already fucking following every single thing they say yeah they're stupid right but if we think it's gonna be okay that that closed captioning or closed captioning it's not brought to you by I

don't want deaf people to know what anyone is saying on parenthood speaking of have you watched the new season of Happy Valley? Yes I have. I had to put closed captioning on because it's so un... When the sister talks you don't know what she's saying. What are... It's a British procedural drama you guys should watch. It's fucking great. It's so good. I think people have talked about it on the Facebook page. Yeah. But yeah, because... I'm not done with the season yet so don't tell me. It's great. I won't tell you anything. But it is Northern England. I believe my Lord, what are they fucking saying? It's the craziest accent. And they said, there's a lot of time like this. It's that kind of it's borderline Geordie.

I think what's that? Um, it's an, it's a part, Welsh or something like that. It's a crazy British accent. Let me see if there's something else from that I wrote a couple notes, but I had had red wine by then One out of five. Oh what so seven out of ten of the overturned convictions are from witness misidentification one out of five Overturned convictions come from jailhouse informants, which is like yeah, dude. Yeah, if you're giving someone a fucking lenient What's it called? A sentencing?

Lenient sentence, because they're informing on someone. But you know what I do love is I love when they plant a cop as a prisoner and get that shit out. Yeah. So then nobody, there's nobody benefiting that could possibly be locked. It's a lock. Right. And if you're stupid enough to tell your cellmate, which like so many people are stupid enough to tell their cellmate.

Well, they can't help it if they're that certain personality, the psychopath and the narcissist and all that. That's what I find so fascinating is that it really is, not every single killer is like that, but there is that pattern. Especially like murders that make no sense, like murders that aren't domestic abuse, that aren't personal, these people are fucking crazy.

Like when it's not out of, quote, passion, which I hate saying that word because killing your fucking spouse isn't passion. It's just pure evil. It should be called hysteria. That's really what it is. Yeah. That's, that's, that, that is accurate. It's a man going hysterical. I read a thing recently. Um, there's a chopper. Do you ever think that when you, there's a helicopter over your house,

that it's like, there's a loose criminal and they're going to park or that's why I moved out of silver Lake because there was helicopters in my, like this search light in my backyard every night. I was like, I can't handle it. It's dumb. Crimes of passion and crimes of love, like you can't call it that. And the same way that someone I wrote recently

that was like, you can't call, don't call it unconsensual sex, because sex is sex and rape is rape. Use the word rape. Right. They so often use... It's not sex. Yeah.

They use euphemisms like in journalistically when it's like, when they're like, oh, they assaulted a child. You raped a child. Yeah. Say the words together so that people understand what happened. Right. Molesting is like such a vague child. Yeah. Say the words together so that people understand what happened. Right. Molesting is such a vague term. Yeah.

I remember there was that documentary about that one priest who was just sent from fucking church to church. Oh, that documentary is one of them. I think about it all the time. I wish I'd never watched it. Well, there's one kid in it who's like, you can tell he's like, became a drug addict, was so fucked up off it. Well there's one kid in it who's like, like he's, you can tell he's like became a drug addict, was so fucked up off it and he says, that guy didn't molest me, he fucked me. Like he says that. Yeah. Yes. That's right. That's exactly like, people don't talk about that. I'm so sorry for listeners who are

listening with their children. They're not. Well there was one woman who said she was recommending it to her children, but I was assuming it was because they were all adults. One would hope. One would fucking hope. Yeah, no, it's all of that. I feel like there's just waves of change because so many people have voices these days. People get to talk about this enough so that it does affect change.

But yeah, there's nothing that makes me angrier than it was like, accused of a sexual assault of a minor. Where it's like, why are you rewording child rape? That's so strange. They did it, they need to get called what they did. But have you seen any of that news about Dennis Hastert going to trial? He's that Republican, I think he was the speaker of the house, and he's been molesting boys and raping boys.

I just did it myself for years. Well, he was a wrestling coach in Illinois. It's just the craziest story, but he was one of the lead people that tried to get Clinton impeached when he had that affair. Meanwhile, fully raping boys. Somewhere in his head that makes sense to him. It has to, otherwise how do you live your life? Like I feel like if you and I killed someone,

we would be, if you and I stole something from a grocery store, we would be like so rack, whatever, steal shit, I don't care. Like you know what I mean? Like if I like. Well, we have consciences. This is people who like are sociopathic or they're so they just want what they want that so that they rationalize everything that they do.

That's the bullshit that these guys that are these old guys that have been in power for so long, they're used to it. And you see these other Republicans defending him by saying, there's one that said, I think it was Tom DeLay. Is that who it is? I don't know anything about politics. But he said, we all have personality flaws. Oh, that is not a personality flaw.

It is not. It's a... There's no excuse. I think it's I think it's become so Normal in our culture that like there are molesters out there and there are Yeah, but I feel like that more and more those like it just makes me think now We're going off on the craziest tangent, but it makes me think of like the Franklin Credit Union Yeah scandal where for so long the people that tried to report that they were like, you're out of your mind. You're talking about government officials.

Well, now these government officials, it's in the light of day. All of these rich white old men who have been telling everybody how to live and what their value is for years and years are fucking monsters of the highest order. It's crazy. It's the people who are underrepresented and fucking striving just to make their families have a good life. You know what they say that like, that are the good people is what I mean.

Sometimes they're not. Anyways, they say that like, if you wanna get into politics, there's a part of you that's a narcissist to begin with. You can't want to get into politics without having a little bit of fucking narcissism. Sure. Which makes sense to me.

I don't want to lead a bunch of fucking people. And be a professional bullshitter and be on the take. Basically just lie to people so you can get to where you want to get yeah into a place of power like who wants to be in a place of power Well, and also what that power means which it seems like the more we learn about it It means that you go off to like Bohemian Grove and sacrifice a six-year-old Wooden owl and shit where you're just like sorry what that what? That's a rep episode. If you guys want to hear more about this, what we're talking about, listen to the last podcast on the last episode. Bohemian Grove.

Bohemian Grove. And then what was the? And the Franklin Credit Union. The way those guys did that and researched it is amazing. It's like a two or three parter. There's some shit that's hard to listen to. Like they get into the shit. They get into it. And there's a couple, because they also have one that's hard to listen to like they get into the shit. They get into it and there's a couple because they also have

one that's like Satanism in the government because they did a whole run about like all the the satanic panic in the 80s and all that shit and how these things that were once considered conspiracies are actually proving to be 100% true. Well it just sounds so ridiculous and obvious. It sounds like we're Jell-O-B-Offra being like, no, the government is bad. I'm like, the government is Jerry Brown. You know, it's like, how was that?

It was like dead on. One percent of our listeners were like, yes. She nailed that. The other ones don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. So good. Wait, anything else from the... It was at the Ace Hotel, you say? Yeah.

It was... Well, it wasn't. They have this like... Where are you pointing? Oh, they have this like gorgeous theater at the Ace Hotel that they like fucking... They stole. It was like a gorgeous theater to begin with and Ace Hotel was like... This is what I wrote because I love my little like crazy notes. False evidence, the most dangerous tool the cops use said Strang. False evidence

is the most dangerous. He was, these dudes were like, is he the smaller one? Dean Strang? Strang is a smaller one. The other one looks like the eagle from The Muppets. Yes, same eagle. And Dean Strang is like this sensitive poetry teacher that's just trying to catch a break and can't believe. He's like, I'm just trying to teach you kids about poetry and you won't listen. And like, I mean, these guys can't make a ton of money. And I mean, they're just justified. they're so admirable that they are, you know, like the things they were saying about how they're used to not, they used to not allow like even recordings, voice recordings in a fucking interrogation. Oh wow. Which is like, interrogation. Oh wow. It's like it's common fucking sense that you would if you were a cop you would want this to be recorded at least audio if not video my

cat is just smelling everything about you right now. I love it. Because you're not doing anything wrong and so you should it's the same thing with the fucking closed captioning. Yes that's right but I But I mean, I was going to say, you know, it immediately made me think of like LA Confidential where it's like, you can't record it if you're not doing it on the books. And if cops are, you know, there's always that mentality of by any means necessary, you got to get this perp. But that leaves out, you could be wrong. And that's the problem that people, I think,

that get into power like that, they lose the ability to question their own judgment, they lose the ability to be wrong. That becomes- They are just like after what they think is, quote unquote, the truth. And it has to be their truth because they have to win. Well, that's false confessions.

And they talked about Brendan Dassey, the nephew in Making a Murder murder who got, you know, who quote, confessed and like half of his testimony isn't videoed, you know, half of the shit that happened between them and there's no parent there and there's no lawyer there. That shit should have all been stricken from the record. Like that should not have been entered into anyone's,

what is the word? Entered into. Evidence? Evidence. Did we miss the word evidence two times in the True Crime podcast? Wow. Guys, episode 14 is a real roller coaster.

14, 14-y, hmm, we don't got it. 14 the Bell Tolls. Nope. Dude, yes. Stop it, don't got it for 14 the bell tolls. Nope, dude. Yes. Don't do that. Do not condescend to me. 14 the bell tolls. No. OK, right on our Facebook page or tweet at us, what number 15 should be?

Please. Yeah. Please. But know that. But you're now in the realm of comedy writing writing and so you might get your feelings hurt. Just know that. We will insult. We're going to read the worst ones and go with the best ones. And we're going to name first, last, and middle names. Oh, it's going to be a bloodbath. We will not do any of that. Can you imagine? We just turn. We never even make it to episode 20 because we turn on everyone and ourselves. What if we just become huge bitches? What if we turn this podcast into a podcast called What If?

Can we just keep, it's just a shit ton of conjecture for an hour and 10 minutes. Like what if? But we had to say it like that. Like what if? No, what if? Like no. You don't even know. You don't, what if?

Just keep going higher. Yeah. Let's do that. All right. Should we do our, did we do all of our house cleaning? You don't what if just keep going higher. Yeah All right, should we do our did we do all of our house cleaning? Do we have any corrections? I feel like our corrections department like a murder enema. Like I just feel good right now. I Got a true crime enema. That's good. I know that'll clean you right out. I mean that just whoosh, you know what I'm saying? Wow That'll clean you right out. I mean, that just whoosh, you know what I'm saying? Wow. So we mentioned that I bought the rights

to Michael Ramstead's cartoon drawing of us, which sounds so official and so like grown up. And I'm like, that doesn't sound like me. I think I was just like, can we use this? Here's some money, sign this. Yeah, that is very grown up of you. I know, I don't know. I guess I was a merch fucking madman already. Had you done merch before?

No. Did I? I don't know, but Vince was not really into it also. Oh, yeah, yeah. Vince did like that all the time. Right. So I think I kind of understood. He's like, hey, you got to pay some money, you got to buy the rights, then you can use this image. Exactly. So I think, yeah, I was excited for that. So I think we should put that out, right? Oh, absolutely. Because that is a very cute picture. And if you saw us live and got to

be in the VIP, it was our step and repeat kind of background for a little while. Yeah. We love that image. It's adorable. Well, let's put it on some shirts. And we haven't sold that in a long time. And thank you again, Michael Ramsted, for being there with us in the early, early, early days. Yeah, you could find him on Instagram, Michael Ramsted. Great, dude. Sold me rights. I mean, did a full rights deal.

Appreciate you. Um, Oh my God, us talking about loving CCTV. I mean, Yeah. I'm sorry. it's true. I know. I mean, I don't want to like it because it's so invasive and it's so anti-basic privacy, I don't know. I mean, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems weird to be loving it as we do in this episode.

The only thing is when you look around, it's like if people care so much about privacy, then we got some serious fucking problems because I was talking to my niece Sophie this weekend about Colin Farrell. It's the first TikTok that came on when I looked at TikTok later. It's like we carry around CCTV in our pockets.

That's true. In a way. That's true and if they help solve crimes and all that kind of thing, like, okay. Plus like ring cameras now and like doorbells, you can fucking see everything. It's all out there. Yeah. I don't know.

Does it stop people from committing crimes? Maybe. Maybe. It'd be interesting to know. But to be full-throatedly like, hooray for it, if you're just like, clearly, no one is listening to us. Clearly. Right, we didn't know.

Okay, so the theme this week is 90s murders, because we did 80s last week. So let's get right into it and listen to Karen's story about serial killer Joseph Naso. This is a graphic one, so prepare yourself accordingly. Here we go. This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace. Hey, Canada, Karen here to apply a little peer pressure.

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And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash murder, promo code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website. That's squarespace.com slash murder and use promo code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain Goodbye the King living fall sale and soon save up to 50% on selected Australian design award-winning furniture So why buy ordinary furniture when you can come home to King sale in soon shop online or visit a King living showroom today? Do you want me to go first this year? This year. So this theme, so last week we did 1980s murders, which was like easy for both of us I feel like. And then we were like, we're going to do 1990s murders. And then I feel like both of us today were like, what the, I can't find a 90s murderer. I can't, I was like, I can't find one.

I don't have the will to live. What did I do to my eyebrow? I have a lot of eyebrow problems this weekend. I can't, I did something to my right eyebrow. I mean, it's not filled in right now so you can see it. I just did some bottom plucking. You know how sensitive I am about eyebrows. It's got an arch. It's got a nice arch.

This over here is okay. It looks like you're being inquisitive. All the time. I constantly want to know something that I don't ask. I tried to furrow my brow today to be like, oh, I understand someone. And they're like, are you mad at me because I have Botox? And so I can't furrow my brow correctly. And I was like, maybe I need to lay off the bowtops. Are you mad at me? I was like, no, this is concern.

You just can't tell because I have fucking, what are they called? I have just like chemicals. Botulism in your muscles. Botulism in my forehead. You know what, LA 25. And you do. Girl, you're wrinkle free. Cause I can't live another day with wrinkles.

No, I don't care. Well, you're on that TV. I tell you, there's nothing worse. There's nothing worse than seeing what you're, how your face does on HG. What is it called? HD. HDTV. Oh man. Take a look at your face on HGTV. Tiny House Hunters Wrinkles, the worst kind. You wanna go first or me go first? I'll totally go first. Please go first. First of all, somebody tweeted this on the Twitter page

at MyFaveMurder, if you'd love to join us over there. I think I got locked out somehow on my phone and I can't figure out how to get back You keep doing that I do it and then I don't try to fix it. That's my thing. You try twice I'm like fuck this. I'm like, you know what fuck it But somebody did tweet this and it made me realize because someone said something about murderpedia I think they were just mentioning it but they could have been saying I I'm on to you how you use that in

all your research, which I don't think they were, but they could have been because I absolutely do. And Murderpedia, just as a recommendation, if you ever want to know about a killer, it's this amazing website where they have compiled tons of articles in one spot. So you can read like local newspaper articles about the person that you are researching and it's cool. And there are links to every article. Can you tell I'm throwing my brow in anger right now? You cannot.

I can't. But I also don't have my glasses on and I'm wearing a French sleeve t-shirt so I'm slightly uncomfortable because I have an intense farmer's tan. There's so much going on in this apartment. We should get someone to paint it. Allie says this apartment is like a YouTube channel and so it's really hard to pay attention to anything in here because there's just like cats and like cute vintage things. It's so true.

It's kind of aqua. It's very aqua. It's like if you had a seizure issue. Well, you do. Oh, no, no, it's fine. If you were Karen. I haven't in years and I wouldn't in here. It's pleasing. No, no, it's fine. If you were Karen. I haven't in years. And I wouldn't in here. It's pleasing. Okay, good. I'm glad. So anyway, I get all my research off Murderpedia. Probably should have said that. Probably should cite research, but you know,

whatever. We're doing our best. We say Reddit a lot. Credit here, credit there. So here's what I looked at. I was trying to do, I literally looked up MySpace murder just to see if there ever was one and there was but it didn't happen in the 90s. Somebody actually committed a MySpace murder in 2003 where I was like you're a day late and a dollar short. Mr. MySpace hanging onto MySpace way longer than needed necessary I also, because somebody suggested on the Facebook page, looked very lightly, looked into the Swedish black metal murders of Norway, sorry, not, oh, somewhere in Sweden. And I thought, oh, that'd be kind of funny

and interesting and whatever. It's so dark. It's just a culture of people who are all turned out like crazy each other. And it's- You don't wanna support those people. I just, it's, here's the one thing I will say about it that I do support. Part of the reason they started burning churches, because they have some amazing, really, really old churches,

but they were burning them because they had a kind of really oppressive Christian culture in those countries that really fucked up a lot of people. And so that I support. But did they think it through in that way? This is what the message we're sending. No, it was probably just a bunch of fucking 19, 20-year year olds. It's hard to say because the stories I read around, like there was church arson, but then it went into like stories

that I don't even wanna repeat because they're just, it's just dark for darkness sake and then they would like record it or they record, you know, it's crazy shit that it's just like, I don't enjoy any of that because it's like. We want the intricacies of fucked up things that have happened in the past. We don't really wanna highlight people doing things

to get attention. That's a real fuck you dad feel to all of their crimes. So I was like, eh. We did that to ourselves. We don't need to fucking talk about it with other people. Also, there's tons of really good books about it and you can go down into that. But that's also the part of it.

I'm not interested in the gore. Yeah, me neither. I like the story. I like learning about the psychology. Me too. The gore is just, you know, whatever. I like acoustic folk rock music. Murders?

And I'm listening to it. I like when someone from Beachwood Sparks murdered someone. Have you ever heard of the Austin City limits murders? They're insane. All right, so here's what I landed on. Okay. And this, this, I think this guy has it all because I tried to look, I was trying to look for someone that something that would spark a memory where I'd be like, oh, I do remember that. And I liked it. So I was looking at San Francisco murderers or San Francisco serial killers. Oh, well, of course the Zodiac is all over that shit and you can't get past it. Night Stalker a little bit too.

Richard Ramirez was up there for a while, but then I stumbled upon a killer named Joseph Nassau. And so this story has a little of all the things that we like and it pulls in a murder we've already talked about that he might be responsible for. Oh shit. There's a lot going on but here's what basically what happened when this guy was 76 years old his parole or probation officers did a random visit at his house in Reno and because he was like it was some weapons violation or whatever and so they got to search the whole house because he had weapons and ammo and they found hundreds if not

thousands of photographs of nude women who are posed in very unnatural positions who appear dead or unconscious with mannequin parts and lingerie strewn about in every picture. So the cops like find this stash and then they're like holy shit we've got to really search this house. And they end up finding newspaper clippings, the identification of women, like identification that he shouldn't have. Like clearly it's starting to look like serial killer, what do we call them?

Evidence, no? I'm just gonna keep, I'm gonna forget something. So serial killer, when they get a thing, No? I'm just going to keep whenever we forget something. Serial killer when they get a prize, when they get a thing. Yes. What? Yeah, that's... Prize.

Oh my God, why? Why is this happening? What is it called when they walk... Not a token. Token! Is it a token? It's a token. Let's call it a token.

Everyone knows the word we're looking for. You know when they take an Aryan or they just take a... Yes. Which is so stupid. That's how you get found out, bro. Exactly. But also, and he and he also did it the best way of getting found out. He kept a rape diary. Absolutely fucking tiffly don't do that. Well, here we're glad he did, though, because he'd been doing it since the 50s. Holy shit. And he had these.

It was every little interaction he would have with a woman, he would write down in it leading up into these rapes where in his bizarre and strangely casual phrasing of like, picked up a hot redhead, she really fought me a lot of that kind of shit. Yeah. So they go through the years they're going through. Then they find they stumble on this list of 10 women names and locations and they start to put together these names and descriptions of these women and locations are starting to match up to missing women in the same town. Can I say that's my dream? Like I'm in the wrong. That's my dream job. Is what matching that shit up being a detective to find those things.

Yeah. I'm in the wrong fucking profession. Go on. You mean eating dessert on TV isn't giving you the same feeling? Shockingly. I don't feel fulfilled and that I'm contributing to society. What if you were a detective, but you still, you had to get even more Botox for some reason. You felt the pressure in your... Because I was giving too much away to, what are they called, to criminals. And I'm like in the room with them and I'm like, no way. Like, no, you have to get Botox. You have to stop, fill your whole face. Yeah. Stop furrowing your brow and... Seize up all your muscles.... criminals. So basically they start lining these things up. This guy has been raping and murdering

and dumping women's bodies since the seventies. So they were like, these are real. These are real. And they basically end up, whatever the within the same country version of extraditing is, they move them, they take them from Nevada into California because some of these murders happened

around San Francisco basically. And what they come to find out is that, oh and he referred to that rape journal as his dream diary detailing his fantasies. And he said that he used the word rape loosely, quote, like how guys talk. So, what they start to realize is he's lived in close proximity, like in the same city

as where these women have all been taken from and dumped. He is, wherever it's happening, he's lived in the same place. I love when they make those connections. It's like a puzzle piece and it takes a shit ton of legwork of interviewing people and it's fascinating. It must be so fucking satisfying. Ugh.

Yeah. So it turns out, the other thing that's detailed So, it turns out, the other thing that's detailed, that's taking place as they, as all of these facts and evidence on furls, is that the women have double initials. Same first and last name. We talked about this. Initials, which is the same as the alphabet murder. So these are the women that we're talking about here, it's in 80s and 90s. But in the 70s, there were a series of child murders called the alphabet murders in

Rochester, New York. I remember talking around there. Yeah, you talked about it. So it was little girls between the ages of 10 and 12 and they all had the same first and last initial which I have too. I would be totally have been at risk. So Carmen Colon, age 10, was found in November 18th, 1971 in Rega, New York. Wanda Walkowitz was 11. She was found April 3rd in Rega, New York. Wanda Walkowitz was 11. She was found April 3rd in Webster, New York. And Michelle Manza was 11, and she was found November 28th, 1973 in Macedon, New York.

And did they find that he was living there then? They found out that he is a New York State native, and that he was a New York State native and that he Was visiting the area in he was fitting visiting relatives in that area at the same time but they say that the two cases are not connected because these in the 70s these little girls were prepubescent and These other women all right are a are older and probably prostitutes. He only wanted to murder women of a certain age, not, what the fuck?

And it's like when you murder a child, people get more outraged about it. So he stopped doing that because it was more obvious. People were all over that. Right. So there's like, well, why don't I murder? I can't murder children anymore because it gets too suspicious. Also, he's old at this point. So he was arrested when he was 77. These murders happened when he was in his mid to late 50s. So and also he probably can't get around little kids as much, but you sure can hire a prostitute anytime you want. There's a logic problem that I have with it that's so irritating because there's... The

other thing was there was DNA found on the last little girl, Wanda. How is there no DNA on the other ones? That seems impossible. He's proven to have killed these four women that were on his list, and his DNA is on them. But they don't have any DNA on these little girls from the 70s for the alphabet murders, except for one on Wanda,

and his DNA doesn't match what was found on her. Except for, my thing is, test it again. Do something, look further into it. Because. It seems impossible to me that before there was DNA testing that every single murder, like before people thought about leaving DNA, aside from fingerprints,

that there has to be a DNA on every crime scene. You know what I mean? And it was just handled wrong or wasn't taken or it was lost or it was destroyed or it's too old. You know, before we thought about these things. It's just amazing that that was recently actually. DNA is as new as the OJ trial. Totally.

It's crazy to think about that. Totally. But they did save some things, but it's like, yeah, if this if her body was found on in 1973, then maybe you're going to have some problems with that DNA. But like that everything else, the the cops are saying, yeah, there's those other things are just a coincidence. Well, is it a coincidence that one of his victims in 1978 Was also named Carmen Cologne. Are you kidding me? Are you exactly as the first victim in the Rochester ones same exact name? I wonder if sometimes

psychological profiles That we make that's like like psychologists and detectives make these like this is what the person is like This is what they're into this is what they're after. This is how they are are like detrimental because it makes them It makes them narrow-sighted. Yes the word Like near sighted or far sighted flawed in their sight problematic evidence with seeing evidence flawed in their sight problematic evidence with seeing evidence

uh... yeah because totally that uh... how could that these are so many coincidences you they have now written off for coincidences that should not it's crazy the bodies that of the grown women which this is only seven years later so the last little girl or less because the last little girl michelle uh... in rochester was found in 1973. Well in 1977 Roxanne

Rogash was found in Fairfax, California Which is like 15 minutes away from Petaluma from where I grew up. You guys have all the murders. We have tons of NorCal baby But this girl was only 18. Yeah, that's not an adult It's I mean and also they were saying she they assumed she was a prostitute But this girl was only 18. Yeah, that's not an adult. It's, I mean, and also they were saying she, they assumed she was a prostitute, but there was no proof of it. Her parents said she was not.

And so it's just a weird police theory. This is a perfect link. This is only five years later. And this girl is like, basically his bridge into older women. Okay, so this girl was Roxanne was 18 and she was dumped by the side of the road strangled and nude on January 10th, 1977. Carmen Colon, the second one, the older one in California was found August 13th, 1978 on the Carquinas Highway, and she

was 22. She was 30 miles away from the first victim, so it was clearly he's in that area. Then in 1981, the body of Cher Lee Patton, who doesn't have the same initials, but she was also 56 and she washed ashore near the Naval Depot in Tiburon and Nassau managed the place she used to live and He also had a photo of her and he was considered a prime suspect But then gave investigators elusive answers and was never charged anytime in the next three years

da bro To speak in the fucking NorCal terms Da bro da And then the a woman named Pamela Parsons in 1993 was found in Yuba County. She was 38 and She also lived near him. And then a woman named Tracy Tafoya was found dead in 1994 in Yuba County. She was drugged, raped, strangled, and her body was left near a cemetery. So this guy had pictures. He had descriptions of them, like all this shit, it was just like

a lock. He represented himself in court, of course. That means you're, I'm sorry, but that means you're fucking guilty of shit. It means you're guilty and it means you're crazy. And so of course he was convicted of all four murders in 2013. He's in jail. He's I think he's what do you call it up for the death penalty, but I couldn't find whether or not he's gotten it yet. But that woman when he was being tried, the woman who he raped, one of the early rapes in that was

in Berkeley. She was waiting at a bus stop and he picked her up and raped her. And when she went to the police and she said this in court, which is, I just couldn't get out of my mind, when she went to the police to report it, they said, they told her that they thought

she was just trying to make her boyfriend jealous by making up this story. Can't even, I can't even. So that's what we're coming from. That was 50, almost 60 years ago. Yeah. And this is where we are now. I mean, like, that's the kind of thing where, like,

we're coming from a dead stop of cops not even listening when people are, like, repeated rapes in this entire area. There's a reason people have gotten, this old piece of shit has been getting away with murdering women for years and years. What gets me in every case of serial murders or multiple murders or you know even I don't want to say that you have to be murdered to be important like rapists you know because that is devastating to your entire life, is

the people that are subsequent to them, to the rapists and murderers getting paroled early. The people after this person should have been caught or was caught, that's on the state, and that's on the judge, and that, you know, like, you mean like the victims afterwards? Yeah. Yeah. Like that is, those are the people that like, fuck me up. Is it like that should have been fucking stopped? And the, the family of the victims that had happened to beforehand, they must feel guilty that, you know, this person didn't stay in jail or this person was never caught even though they were like, here's all this evidence.

Like, it's nightmarish. It's just ridiculous. It's just it's, it's because when it's so cut and dry, like this man had all the evidence in his home. Yeah, he got he's going to jail for the rest of his you know very short life. Hopefully But like that it went on for years if those parole officers Hadn't done that search nobody would have ever known those people would have just it's something about like child abuse cases where they're like more there

With a child protection agency is like nope. They're fine and, and like close a case, and then the kid dies, and it's like, this is on you, and there's no, there's nothing you can say that gets you out of this. Like, I don't care if your boss was this way, I don't care if you had a huge caseload, like. Well, the problem is they don't, that kind of shit, human life is undervalued, so they don't, that kind of shit, human life is undervalued. So they don't pay people who are supposed to be protecting those voiceless people enough

and they have too many. Even though you're right. I know I'm wrong. I'm going to get angry letters from this. There's no excuse. It's just like, but we have to start putting money to the things that are important services for people who need help as opposed to just fucking like everything just goes to the one person. We can't get into this shit.

This is just crazy. I feel like I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. And I think that social workers are trying so hard and they're working against a bureaucracy that is undervaluing them. And I fucking I'm sorry. Well, I think I will know. I think probably the point is that it's this this system is to blame.

Yeah. The system that's supporting you know that one person having 30 case loads. Yeah. It doesn't even make sense. No you're right. I feel like I feel like I want to edit that out because I feel like a dick for saying that. Okay.

And and teachers should be paid more. I mean you know let's now we, let's get rid of it. So that's our friend Joseph Naso, the great NorCal and possibly, I really, I'm gonna say it like a detective, I like him for those alphabet murders in the 70s. Oh yeah, I get it. Like you like him? Oh.

I like him for it, like cop style. I agree. I thought you'd like that too because we've talked about that. No, I do. I like it. I like you for liking that Yeah, yeah awful story like I mean He had been doing it for so long. That's what's so troubling about it. It is. It's an argument for CCTV. Right. It's that kind of thing where it's like if the police didn't go into his house and find those pictures and suddenly start putting it together.

Yeah. I still have the picture in my head of what, when you were telling me the story, I pictured his house and I still have the exact same picture over eight years later. Yeah. So it's just so troubling. It's just so insane. Also with someone who has alliterative initials.

Yes. Oh, right. KK. Yeah. I know several people who would be at risk. It's just like. Yeah. So are there any case updates?

No, no major case updates. He's still in San Quentin. He's 90 years old. He was sentenced to death, but he's probably gonna live out the rest of his days in prison without the possibility of parole since California has not carried out an execution since 2006. And apparently, in 2019, Governor Newsom officially ordered a moratorium on the death penalty. So it's basically the end of the road, I guess. Let's talk about that the same way we talk about CCTV, for or against? I'm just kidding.

Don't fucking answer that. We're not discussing that right now. Well, I mean, yeah. Today is not the day. I mean... Unless you want to. I don't even know what I would say. That's the thing is early days, we didn't realize that talking things through and just having kind of

initial reactions to things definitely for me uneducated reactions to things and just like Mostly gut reactions and things I heard my parents say yeah, so then you're kind of like over the years We have started to understand well gonna have a big opinion You're gonna get a big reaction, and that's what you're actually doing on this podcast. So we slowly but surely were like, oh, there's some things that if we're going to have that opinion, we better know what we're talking about. Also, as in my next story, it will show I said to edit something out and it didn't get

edited out. So you've got to be really, you've got to really pay attention to that shit. Luckily, Stephen's just coming along soon and he's going to edit it out when I ask him to. I appreciate that. That's kind of an important part of an audio engineer's job, right? It is. I mean, it's why you shouldn't podcast without a third witness that's not in it with you. Right. That knows how to edit things out. Yes. That's crucial. I mean, it's hard for us though,

because sometimes we jokingly say, edit that out, and then we have to be like, we're just kidding, it's confusing at times. We are baffling as individuals. That's why there's two people in that booth over there, not just one. And there's the guys. And more behind them.

And more listening. Oh, I was just gonna say, it is really funny, Murderpedia is such a massive part of this podcast and such a resource right along there with Wikipedia. But Murderpedia is an incredible website. It is. And I bet you they need money just like Wikipedia needs money. So if you have extra money and you want to give a little to the places that actually

provide a lot of information for most podcasts. Those would be two good places to do it. Definitely. Okay, so now it's time to listen to George's story from episode 14. This is just a horrible, I remember this, I remember seeing it on the news. This is the murder of Sharice Iverson. Metrolinx and Crosslinx are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton-Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks.

Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks, and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. At Wealthsimple, we're built for whatever you're building. Built for Jane, who wants to break into the housing market. We're built for Ted, who's obsessed with what's happening in the global markets. And built for Celine, who just wants to retire and explore the world's flea markets. So take a moment and think about what you're building for. We've got the financial tools to help make it happen. Wealthsimple. Built for possibilities. Visit wealthsimple.com

what's yours okay so cuz you're from the year 90s kid right yeah and this one happened when I was 16 so in 19 in May of 97 right before I turned 17 and so this this thing that happened this the person who did it was someone that I would have dated. And I remember it happening. He was from Southern California, the person who did it. And the girl he killed was from Orange County. And it was such a like, I would have hung out with this guy. This guy would have been my friend.

It made me realize that the people you think are cool because they're one of you, you don't know who they are at all. And, I'll get into it, but, so May 25th, 1997, Jeremy Strohmeyer, who was 18, and David Cash, his friend, who was 17, they were at the Primadonna Resort and Casino

in Prim, Nevada, which we've all been to. It's the casino with the giant roller coaster right before you drive into Vegas. It's fucking cool because it's like going into a Denny's from the 80s. With a roller coaster that goes through the restaurant. And it's just like Knott's Berry Farm. With a roller coaster that goes through the restaurant. Right. Yeah. And it's just like, it's like Knott's Berry Farm. It's just like quaint and it doesn't mean to be, you know? So they're there.

They're from Long Beach. At 4 a.m., Strohmeyer begins to make, quote, playful contact with seven-year-old Sharice Iverson who was roaming the casino alone, which is something that I did. Like, my dad took us to Vegas on regular occasion, not really, but he took us a few times, and was like, go play in the arcade. And you just fucking walked away.

But he didn't do that at 4 a.m. No, not at 4 a.m. 4 a.m. is not right. So the dad was gambling and drinking. They told him to keep a closer eye. is yeah, so the dad was gambling and drinking They told him to keep a closer eye on his daughter and he ignored them and told his son to go watch The kid which is like my parents were divorced if like I had gotten lost my mom would have killed my dad like yeah, I get it and like it's it was from the killer being my age to the kid being in that situation is understandable. So Strohmeier, who's being playful with Cherise, he leads her into the women's restroom. While

in the restroom, they begin having a playful wet paper towel fight like jokingly like he's playing with this this 18 year old guy is playing with the seven year old girl like they're buddies you know and like when you're a little kid you like want to make friends with the older kids and then he leads her into a bathroom and then his so this is not like this is really troubling to me is that the friend last name is cash. He walks into the restroom to look for his friend Strohmeier and he peered over from a neighboring stall and saw Strohmeier restraining the girl and threatening to kill her if she didn't stay quiet. cash told the police that he tried

to get Strohmeier's attention by calling his name and tapping him on the head and Strohmeier stared at him blankly. So do you know what Cash did? He walked away. He left, which is so troubling to me. Like, it's more troubling than this murderous fucking kid whose dad was in prison and whose mother was a schizophrenic. The fact that this fucking guy walked away. He ends up, he strangle, he molests and kills her. I don't wanna say in a way because it's like,

it's so troubling. They find out who he is by putting surveillance camera surveillance video up and people from his high school in Long Beach are like that's this dude. They surveillance his the cops surveillance his house and identify him. He runs away and he ingests a bunch of drugs and writes a conflict you know a suicide note pretty much confessing to it. There's no question during any of this in the trial that he did this. There's no like maybe he didn't do it.

He clearly did this. So let's see. So his defense attorney who represented the Menendez brothers, weird. The woman? Yeah, Leslie Abramson. So Surmire claimed he was high on alcohol and drugs at the time. He didn't remember committing it. But apparently he hoarded pornography, including pornographic images of children and admitted

fantasizing about sex with young girls and in a chat room which got remember those He wrote I fantasize about having sex with five and six year old girls all the time They couldn't prove the message came for him, but right before the trial Hours before it was gonna start he entered a plea on his behalf. So his plea that he was guilty to four charges, first degree murder, first degree kidnapping, sexual assault on a minor with substantial bodily harm and sexual assault on a minor. That's your plea. Like if that is, if first degree murder and kidnapping and is your plea, you are a fucked up individual. You know, like manslaughter isn't what you go for. Like you go for fucking first degree

and you plead guilty to it. So he was sentenced to four life terms, one for each of the crime he pleaded guilty to, to be served consecutively. So this motherfucker's never getting out. Do you think that he did that just to get it over with? Like he knows he's guilty, he's just, basically he's coming in saying, this is all the shit I did, let's just get this over with?

I think it was a death penalty case, and he had confessed to it. There was like, the confession was admissible in court. It was a death penalty case and he had confessed to it. There was like the confession was admissible in court. It was a death penalty case. I think he knows he would have gotten death for this. So this is his way of staying alive. Okay. So the post trial shit's really interesting to me too. So Jeremy Strohmeyer is just appealing the shit out of it. It really bothers me that this guy is so clearly guilty. There's no conspiracy. There's no fucking question. His shitty friends saw it. There's like, there's fucking surveillance tapes,

but he keeps appealing it instead of fucking... This is what I don't understand about sociopaths, like just admit your guilt. No they can't. Let the family heal from this. They don't care about the family. They don't care about anybody. Don't make them testify every four years. They don't care about those people.

But they can't lose. They can't, it's about getting anything you want all the time It's the sociopathic mind is so fascinating because they don't there is no mercy and there is no logic beyond How do I get what I want? There's no fault. No. Well, what's interesting is that the fucking David Cash? So Sharif Iverson Sharif Iverson's mother demanded that Cash, the friend, be charged as an accessory, which like fucking clearly, no, authorities stated there was not enough evidence connecting him to the actual crime.

So he never got prosecuted. I remember like frequent news updates of like him going to Berkeley and his fellow students being like get this fucking kid out of here. Wow. He got into Berkeley? Yeah. So this wasn't some dipshit. No.

These were like hacky sack college kids. Both of them. These were like skater college kids that we would have been flirting with. But here's what Cash says in the weeks following Strohmeier's arrest. He says, quote, I'm not going to get upset over someone else's life. I just worry about myself first. I'm not going to lose sleep over somebody else's problems. He took no responsibility for this. So like

he didn't do it but he's clearly a sociopath as well. Either that or he's in such an insanely deep denial because it's yeah. Yeah that makes sense. It's like that's like saying it's not my problem where it's like you just it's a hundred percent your problem. There's no you can't just deny your way out of it and I fucked up goes so far you know yeah but that's like I should have done something I'm sorry goes so far but that's not who you're dealing with I know I know and then listen to this shit

this is the craziest shit to me. So his parents were his adoptive parents. They adopted him as an infant. This is cash or? No, this is Strohmeyer, the killer. In 1999, they sued Los Angeles County and its adoption workers for $1 million, claiming that the social workers deliberately withheld crucial information that would have stopped them from adopting him as an infant. Specifically, they claimed that they were never told that Strohmeier's biological mother had severe mental problems, including that she suffered from chronic schizophrenia and

had been hospitalized more than 60 times prior to Stromae's birth. However, they state that they continue to support their adopted son. So basically they were like, he's not ours anymore in the most like indirect way. Like they're basically like, this isn't what we asked for. Except for it was totally fine up until that point. Yeah, if he hadn't had any wins, they would have been like, it's because we raised him right. Yeah.

I mean, I don't wanna talk shit on adoption because I think it's fucking amazing and I would totally do it and like, but this is your kid, you can't sue the fucking city for a million dollars because something went wrong when he was fucking 17 well also waiting This is just this seems I would love to know like what what kind of like a tax bracket of people were talking about yeah because

It's like everybody's running to talk about how it's not their problem. It's not their fault. It's not their problem It's not their fault. It's like sorry you guys are's not their problem, it's not their fault. It's like, sorry, you guys are ground zero. You touched his fucking head. You saw him raping a child. It's 100% your problem. Nobody wants to take any responsibility for any part of this. That's crazy. And it's so frustrating.

Like remorse is something that we can all connect with. Remorse is something that we can all connect with. Remorse is something we can all understand and feel, even if it's shit that we would never do. It's like, I fucked up, I was thinking wrong, I was crazy, it wasn't right. And like, yeah, that doesn't get you out of punishment, but it goes so far for so many things. Yeah, but you're talking about, you expect something

from people who are fucking child rapists and killers. These aren't noble, moral people in any way. Think of the kind of parents that would sue the city because their son was a murderer. Like those people. Fucking 17 years too late. You couldn't have raised your kid right if that's your first fucking instinct. Yeah.

No, it's no good. I totally remember that story. And I'm, it, you know, I'm really glad that you didn't talk about details because I feel like there was a time where I knew the details of what he did to her and I am glad I can't remember it right now. There was a time where I knew the details of what he did to her and I am glad I can't remember it right now. I remember the news. I remember seeing the surveillance footage on the news.

I just want to talk about this girl and how awful it was for her. The person at the fucking center of this while these people are fucking getting their appeals and suing the city and saying that like they walked away because they couldn't deal with what was happening. Yeah. And you know, none of it is fair to this fucking kid who Well and also understand that father that's a hugely problematic family.

Anybody that's up at four a.m. at a casino, so why doesn't that guy have a room or a car that those kids can be in? It doesn't make sense. Why are you taking your kid to Vegas to begin with? But yeah, and then also four in the morning, no child should be awake. Like there should be a system in place

where if you work at a casino and it's past 2 a.m. and you see anyone that looks younger than 18, there's immediately, we name names, we need driver's licenses, we need action to be taken. Well, I mean, the end of it is that there's a Cherise Iverson bill introduced after this that provides a fine and possibly jail time for anyone who fails to report a crime of the nature that led to the creation of the bill.

So like, unless, like if someone dies and you don't tell on them, basically, you could get fined, which is like, fuck you. And then there's increased security in Nevada casinos, Nevada? Nevada. And also they've increased security in their arcades and casinos, which is like, well,

your security guards could be fucking perverts, so that doesn't really do anything. Don't trust anyone. Yeah, I mean, you gotta tighten up your game. There's not kids in casinos, do not mix. I don't care what circus circus has told you. My dad took us to Circus Circus as a kid and was like, go play fucking video games.

That's what it's built for. Meanwhile, what the fuck? Like, there's nothing about that that makes sense. In the thing we talk about a lot, which is like, I should have been killed mode. I should have been kidnapped. I mean, I was a really cute kid, but like, you know what I mean? You were pretty precious.

I've seen pictures. Pretty darling. I should have been kidnapped and killed. Oh yeah, yeah. And I would have been if someone was like, we had kittens in the van. I'd be like, fucking kitten. Even now I'd be like kitten. Maybe next week should be that could have been me. Yeah. I have that's the one I wanted to do today. And I was like, I'm

so excited. I got my 90s murder and I was like 1985. God damn it. Let's do that next week. Okay, next week is like I should have that should have been me. This could have been me. This could week is like, I should have, that should have been me. This could have been me. This could have been me. Or should have or whatever. Should have been. Yeah. This will be, no.

This, God, no. When I write my autobiography and lie, it's going to be me. This totally almost could have maybe happened to me. That one has always, and always will stick with me. Just so fucking heartbreaking. And such an unnecessary tragedy. Yeah, and so problematic with the friend peeking over the...

Oh, yeah. It's just, there's so many issues there. So gross. Are there updates, though? No major case updates. Jeremy Strohmeyer is still in prison in Nevada. He's 45 years old. So in 2018, he requested a new sentencing hearing based on a SCOTUS decision that those serving life sentences

for committing murder when juveniles and who only had one victim, which is like should have a chance at parole, but he was 18 and seven months at the time of the murder. So of course, thankfully the request was denied. The whole thing where it's like he was a juvenile and there was only one murder makes you go so far. You know what I mean? Like, because he was stopped, there was only one murder. Kind of. I mean, kind of.

It could. But he was 18. So, it's like, you know, these are for people who are like 12, we're talking about. Yeah. But I mean, it's just, it's the law. And I think it's that kind of thing. It's like if you could probably look into that person's history and be like, this is what brought him up to this day. Is rehabilitation possible? Yes.

I'm not saying to convict someone because they might do things in the future. That's fucking clearly not okay. I'm just saying like, that's good. That's not my argument. But it is like, you know, oh, you only had one victim? Like that's one person's entire fucking life. Yes, completely. It's just and everyone around her life and she had so much of a future that she didn't get to live out like there's it's all of that. It's all of that. Okay, so let's wrap it up with the outro of episode 14, shall we?

This is a really strange and sad moment that was very... It wasn't even processed when we were talking about it now, but we're about to talk about the death of Michelle McNamara. And it's just... It's as bewildering a fact today as it was back then. So let's try out this episode. Let's have a memorial real quick. Yeah, so somebody wrote on the Facebook page very earnestly, which I understand, the day that Michelle McNamara died. They

posted a thing kind of saying, Karen O'Georgia, you need to do a special episode about Michelle McNamara. And I understand where that was coming from. But I guess the thing I need that person to understand and everybody to understand is Michelle was a real person that I knew. And she was a friend. I've been friends with her husband for almost 30 years. It's not the kind of thing that's very easy to turn around and be and podcast about as if it's some piece of news. It's for me it is a personal loss. I mean in the way that I have a friend who is now a wood-a-whir with a seven-year-old child. It's it's such a massive Tragedy and Michelle was such a brilliant woman. She was such a talented writer

She was so into everything that we're all into and she made such great Contents she she was an author. She wrote these really cool articles you can find Her old blog was called true crime diary Which we've talked about on the podcast before but she also it's very easy to find her the article she wrote about the Golden State Killer which was her terminology that she she Renamed the East area rapist and the original Night Stalker the Golden State Killer and she was writing a book on it and stereo rapist and the original Night Stalker, the Golden State Killer, and she was writing a book on it. And it's just, it's such a massive loss and it's such a real thing that's happening in our lives that it's not something that we can just kind of turn around and present as if it's something distant, because it's not. So, we, I loved Michelle and I love Patton,

and it's just an incomprehensible tragedy that is the kind of shit you just never want to happen, and that happens. So, hug the people that you love, tell the people that you love that you love them, live the life that you want to live and just be cool to people, I guess, is what I would say. That was beautiful. Let's end it on that. And thanks for listening, guys. Thanks guys. Thanks, guys. We'll always stay sexy. Always stay sexy.

Bye. Bye. Bye. You know what's really weird? That was insane and so unexpected and so tragic to lose Michelle, for Michelle's family to lose her child to lose her. And like in that moment just being like, so this is the craziest thing to happen. And then basically thinking back over the next couple years and the things that happened

in those years, it just is increasingly bizarre and how is this actually happening, not just like Paul Holes and the whole team actually solve that crime. The thing that she was working so hard to do actually happens. It happens. And it was such a rare thing to happen too. Like her looking into the case, her trying to find new evidence, and then it actually being solved, that is so rare. It's so heartbreaking that she didn't get to see that come to fruition. And just as a human being, that she, you know, isn't with us anymore.

And that definitely hit me hard. And I think about her a lot and, you know, wonder where she would be now if she were here still. It's like, and then being able to now say that we work with Paul Holtz, we get to work with a person who had such a hand in bringing closure to that case. It's just like, yeah, it's all so surreal. This whole experience, of course, has been, but these pieces of it, like in looking back at stuff like this, it's quite a photo album of memories. We're just like very large experiences, very like, I'm sorry, what are you saying?

What happened now? With our lives? Yeah. Yeah. All of it. It's going to be funny when we first bring up Paul Hull's and these rewind episodes. It's crazy. I think I remember.

I think it's in that apartment, so I think it's coming up soon. Right. Right. Yeah. Oh my God. All right. You want to do some titles? Sure. What's the alternative title that we would have called this podcast?

Well, You Sexy Mother 14. I think it's great. It's pretty high up there. We're getting better and better at these, and then we're going to stop. It's so sad. I know. I did say I love nerds after, and then we're gonna stop. It's so sad. I know. I did say I love nerds after, because I knew what LARPing was.

Yeah, and you do love nerds. I really do. You really do. How could you not? They're smart. Then there's a word in this episode that we both forgot twice, couldn't remember the word.

So let's just call this episode evidence. Evidence. Evidence. If anybody trying to argue our professionalism, our expertise, our whatever, it's like, yeah, we didn't fucking know what we were doing. We still don't. We still don't. We'll still forget that word.

And then I say after that, oh no, this is a different thing. I said we should know these nouns because we were guessing whether something was testimony clues or evidence. Yeah, the word we couldn't think of sure I Mean and I think some are subsets of others But yeah, it's truly like this kind of thing of what are we talking about? And then I think what this podcast the last one is what if which is basically this podcast It's like what if, and then it just keeps fucking happening. Yeah, and keeps unfolding.

What if this is your life? What if you name the craziest thing in the world, it happened, it happened. What if? Oh, you wanna write a book one day? It happened. You're going to. What? What?

I can't. I can write a book. Everyone knows I can't. What will be in there? Yeah. That's crazy. Oh. Yeah. Memories. Thanks for going down memory lane with us, rewinding with us, guys.

Yeah, that was episode 14. Yeah. Quite something. Yeah, we'll keep doing it if you keep listening. I mean, even if you don't listen, we'll probably keep doing it. Yeah, that's kind of how we've always done it. No matter who's in the room, we're still doing it. That's right.

Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? room we're still doing it right stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye Elvis do you want a cookie