My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 15: Definitely Not Episode 16

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 15 – Definitely Not Episode 16 – where they talked about murders from the year 2000: the Setagaya Family Murders and serial killer Harold Shipman. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!   Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder   Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-15-definitely-not-episode-16 My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. We all have a different way of unwinding. Maybe it's taking a long bath or journaling. For some of us, relaxing means diving into a good old-fashioned murder mystery from the 1920s. Enter June's Journey, the mobile game that takes you on a thrilling adventure filled with secrets and intrigue. Immerse yourself in the glamorous 1920s, filled with mystery, danger, and romance, with hundreds of mind-teasing puzzles, the next clue is

always within reach. Step into the shoes of June Parker, a determined young woman on a quest to solve her sister's murder. Customize your own luxurious estate island, decorating it with beautiful buildings and expansive gardens. Escape reality and dive into a captivating story where each chapter reveals thrilling new storylines and hidden family secrets. Connect with fellow detectives and share your progress in the game's vibrant community. Get tips, exchange ideas, and enjoy the camaraderie of fellow investigators. Download June's Journey for free on iOS and Android and channel your inner detective. Can you crack the case? Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Goodbye.

Guys, gals, non-binary pals, hello, I'm Kurt Braunhuler. And I'm Banana Boy number two, Scotty Landis. And we're here to tell you about our hilarious strange news podcast, Bananas. Every week, we invite a guest to discuss the strange, fascinating, and just plain bananas news from around the world. The headlines and weird news are lighthearted, unexpected, but always so so fun. Like the British man who ran a four-hour marathon while drinking 25 glasses of wine. Great guests, lots of comedy. We

would love to have you join us so don't miss our new episodes of Bananas Every Tuesday. Follow Bananas wherever you get your podcasts. Bananas. Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our new Wednesday bonus episode where we rewind back to our old episodes and give you our new point of view on them. That's right.

And today we're revisiting episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be clearing a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you to go back to your old episodes and give us your new point of view on them. And we're going to be revisiting episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be clearing a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you to go back to your old episodes and give us your new point of view on them.

And we're going to be revisiting episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be clearing a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you to go back to your old episodes and give us your new point of view on them. And we're going to be revisiting episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be clearing a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you to go back to your old episodes and give us your new point of view on them.

And we're going to be revisiting episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be clearing a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you to go back to your old episodes and give us your new point of view on them. And we're going to revisit episode 15 that's called Definitely Not Episode 16, which we'll be revisiting episode 16, which we'll be revisiting episode 16, which will be clear in a moment why, from Thursday, May 5th, 2016. So now it's time for you reach out to your favorite psychic or a mysterious introvert or your kooky aunt and invite them all to listen because we all get to be day one listeners now. That's right, three episodes a week you guys. So let's get into it. Here's the intro of episode 15 called Definitely Not, episode 16. We're recording. Yep.

A podcast. What episode of My Favorite Murder is this? This one's episode 15. One, five, one, a one and a five. That comes after the number 14. That's right, which by the way, congratulations on picking that amazing name. Oh, God, thank you. I feel like the spirit of Prince was with me when I wrote that.

You sexy mother 14 was perfect. I wanted it to be an homage to the man that we lost and yet at the same time still serve no purpose for what we're trying to get done, which is let people know what we're talking about on our podcast. Well, they really have no way of knowing, and so they have to listen. It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma called My Favorite Murder. Welcome everybody. That's Georgia Hard-Stark.

That's Karen Kilgareff. This is episode 15, which we didn't realize until five minutes ago. We thought it was episode 16 this whole time, which is why, how did we both do that? Which is why this episode's theme is murders that happened 16 years ago. Each and every episode. Now makes no sense. Except I guess we could have just done millennial murders and said that we meant to do it and it was because we wanted murders that were in 2000, but we're not going to pretend that we're smarter than we are.

Let's not try to cover any of our flaws or blemishes. This is what makes us us. Yeah. This is we're human beings. We have no support. We don't even have one person that could go, hey guys, nice conversation about the 16th episode. Why don't you save that for next week?

This is the 15th episode. Like we've said from the very beginning, we're not experts on anything. Except for our own feelings. Right. We are, yeah, we are amateur sleuths with numbers and murders. Yep.

That have stumbled into a conversational podcast about the thing we love the most. Death. Death. Death. Do you think your anxiety over true crime has subsided a little since this podcast started? You know what's funny, Georgia? Heart's dark.

Tell me, Karen. I don't have that much anxiety about true crime. You have the, when you talk about it, it's like, it seems to me to be like a thing that releases your anxiety, which I relate to. But I more have a morbid fascination that borders on, I think I might want to do this. Like that's the dance that I'm dancing. Kill people? Kind of, a little bit. I mean, not genuinely, but in that way of like, this is an option. That's concerning to me, sitting in a room alone with you. Just in that way of like, I feel like that's the genuine truth that I should state. I get it. It's like that thing of like, I could steer my car off this road right now over a bridge.

Exactly. Or have you ever heard that thing where? It's a very real thing pilots cannot look at the ground when they're flying airplanes or they'll fly the airplane into the ground Yeah, it's called I'm making this up completely right now. It's called something like ground hypnosis There's the word hypnosis is in it sounds right But it's basically the thing of like if you look at it You'll do it because your brain knows it's not supposed to right I'll see like jumping off if you're on a tall building You have to like not stand near the ledge because you might just fucking throw yourself over the ledge

You know this there was an amazing conversation that you got into on the Facebook page. This is all unwanted thoughts or dangerous thoughts That was great. I loved that conversation. It was so fucking cool. And as I was reading it, you know, I don't I wouldn't say I suffer from that as a real Disorder like something that really I have to deal with every day But I also kept thinking as I was reading it I feel like that's a very human thing to have I understand that the people that we're talking about are talking about it's problematic And it's right in it's interrupting their I wanted thoughts of killing that they might accidentally kill someone or all those things It was like jumping off a jumping off of something or but I had it really bad

I know that it's a side effect of having anxiety because when I got I got very convinced when my niece was like three or Four that she was going to die and was, I got very obsessive about it. My sister would be like, well, I dropped her off at Eileen's to go swimming. And I'd be like, are you, she's going to fucking there's, I was like, I would get really upset and be like, why aren't you staying there? And she's like, what's wrong with you? And I finally had to tell her, I felt so crazy. And I finally had to tell my sister, like, I'm just convinced that she's going to die.

And my sister goes, oh yeah, so am I every day. That's part of it. And then I just went, Oh, like, Oh, Oh, that's just the fear of like, I have that every day with someone, with anyone. Yeah. Like with Vince, I'm just like mentally preparing myself for something happening. And it's like just terrible and not fun. But I think that's a, I guess my only point is I think it's a very human thing to put yourself through. Yeah, and I know it's just an anxiety issue too

and I'm aware of it so it doesn't like take over my life. But I love the fact that that Facebook page can actually be a place where people get to talk about stuff like that. Totally. And find other people to go, I'm totally with you. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah, I get that. I'm totally with you. It's awesome. Yeah, I get that. I like that a lot. Totally.

And while we're on the topic, we'll just say this, speaking officially for this podcast, we only want to use our Facebook page to talk positively about what we like or what we are scared of or what we're going through. we do not endorse anybody talking shit on other podcasts on our Facebook page. It's gotten a little weird where it's become a topic in and of itself. And the bottom line is we have no interest in talking shit on other podcasts at all.

So please don't do it. We only mention the podcast we like because guys, there's room for everyone. And if you don't fucking like it, don't't do it. We only mention the podcast we like because guys there's room for everyone Yeah And if you don't fucking like it don't listen to it don't listen to it But certainly don't bring it over to our Facebook page to talk about because it's not it's not something we want to endorse or even Be a part of do you think that people who aren't on the Facebook page are sick of hearing about the wonderful beautiful Awesome Facebook page. I'm positive. They are it's like being like, the girl at my school said. That's basically

what it is. I can't wait till we're selling the t-shirts. It's so soon. Oh, that's right. Georgia has really hustled it up and she's gotten some t-shirt designs ready and I think how soon? Hopefully the next week. So it's going to be a pre-order and then they'll get sent out in like two weeks. So the pre-order will be open, then it'll be closed. Then it'll be open again. Then you know what happens after things close?

They open again. Open again. Always. That's the cycle of life. Um, and that's the official, my favorite murder, uh, t-shirt that we're going to have for you first one. Very exciting. Yep.

Uh, so, Hey, what happened 16 years ago? And how does that relate to our 15th episode? Millennial murders. Millennial Y2K. Y2. Y2 what? Y2 murder. Now I'm thinking, would I have had better luck if I had looked through 1999 murders?

Because 2000 was like, when I was trying to go through all of the stuff that happened that whole year. It was hard. And also it's like, it's weird the news that came up. I did find a really good mass murder from a death cult. But it was in Uganda. It was something along the lines of like the holy order of the live by the 10 commandments of God cult. And like over 250 people died. It was basically kind of their modern version of the Jim Jones. Yeah, Jonestown. Man, I've been looking at photos from that a lot lately.

From Jonestown? Yeah. Why are they all found face down? They're all face down facing towards I think someone posed them after they died. You do? Yeah. So everything looked uniform? It looks mellow and not a big fucking mess. I think that you know people stayed alive after or the or the army that that they had the local army posed everyone because if you look at the photos, they're all, it's almost like they are laying down with their heads facing Jim Jones's throne.

His weirdo throne. Yeah, and some of them have their arms around each other. It's like very orderly and it's so creepy. It's the creepiest. I've heard, I would say, 20 seconds of that tape of him talking. Don't do that to yourself. I listened to the whole thing. You did? Oh, I've done, I would say, 20 seconds of that tape of him talking. Don't do that to yourself. Listen to the whole thing. You did?

Oh, I've done it multiple times. Why? Because I'm so curious. Because I'm so fascinated by that one. Even the tiny moment that I listen to, I can replay in my head. It feels like verbatim. I listened to it and I read the transcripts and I read a bunch. There was an AMA on Reddit by a woman who was a survivor. They got out like, got out a couple months before, but her mom and brother died in there because they were high ups. So she was talking about what happened. She listened to the tape and was like, here's what people were saying and here's what they meant, who was saying what. It's so fascinating to me. It's really, the fact that it happened in San Francisco, like close to where I grew

up and there was a bunch of people of all walks of life trying to start a utopia. I mean, every element of it is such an amazing, horrifying story. It just is so like, it's the classic don't go to a second location with someone named Jim Jones, you know? Or a hippie, the 30 Rock Joe. Right, exactly. Or the sign tall. I was just reading today about how the David Miscavige's wife, Shelley Miscavige is like missing as fuck. For years.

For years and they finally put out a police report for her missing persons. But there's some like compound where they keep like high ups and like just torture them constantly. In Florida? Yeah, I think so. So she's probably there. So don't go. Don't say you'll go somewhere else with someone. No, don't go anywhere. Don't go. Don't leave your house. Stay in your apartment. You know, that makes me think they've got to resent the religious tax status for Scientology. It's been proven that it's not an actual religion. It's insane. That it's basically a humongous pyramid scheme. I apologize if it's your religion and you're offended right now.

I don't think they'd do this. I don't want you to be mad at me, but you're in a cult. Call your dad or someone that can help you. Your parents actually love you, even if, even if they're a, what is it called? I mean, this really did make me laugh. I really enjoyed myself at the beginning of this episode. It's so funny because it's so us. We just didn't know it yet that we were incorrect about a basic, a really basic thing. Incorrect about our own idea, about like our own show. I mean, we could have done it in a way of like, no, we wanted to do stories from the year 2000.

That makes sense. But 16 years ago, because it's the 16th, like what, why are you complicating things? Yeah, we're being super specific and we basically just raised the bar way too high and we're like, oh wait, we're not in track and field. Why do we haven't, we haven't practiced for this at all. What are we doing?

Have you seen the guy, the meme of the guy trying to jump over the, what's it called when he jumps over the thing? The high jump? Yeah, when he jumps high, that thing, what's that called? In the air, yeah. The high jump, and it says like,

me trying to quit drinking, and he just like runs, runs, runs to it, and then just like dives onto the platform. Like doesn't even try to jump over it. Is that a pole vault? Is that what you're trying to talk about? That's the one, that's not a high jump, that's a pole vault. Wow. He's like, really need to stick the thing in the ground. And then just like falls. There was also a guy from the Olympics who knocked the

pole out because of his big dick. Did you see that? I saw that. Congratulations to him. Listen, sex sells and what people of the globe need right now is a little entertainment. Like what are the chances that we don't know him? Maybe he wouldn't have won gold or anything. So like he actually won the whole day. Really? Yeah, that's the thing. It's the virality that people can anticipate where it's like, oh no, you yourself are compelling. We're just going to latch on to you. I think that's a good thing to keep in mind is like when you're striving for a goal and this is the thing you want to accomplish so much, don't forget there are other things that could happen that could be even better. For example, you start a true crime podcast.

Yeah. For example, you start a true crime podcast and then you start saying these weird quotes in like an episode and they become t-shirts like this episode has a couple gems. It has look listen for the first time right? And you're in a cult call your dad. That's right. Another nod to our complete naivety of like are you literally in your 15th episode talking shit about the biggest religious power in Los Angeles strangely enough, like you're going after. Really? Okay.

On your way there, you might hit gold somewhere else. You never know. You just don't know. There's so much, like looking at some of these quotes are very painful from this episode because we're like, you know when fifth graders start getting funny because they're like, they're not babies anymore, they're figuring out how to be funny and make the adults actually laugh,

not like, not just clap trap, you have to, because it's a baby. And that's the feeling I have where we're like, oh, we're really gonna like, we're really gonna get out over our skis and, you know, make some comedy about this stuff, where I'm just like, what? We did what? We did what?

We said what? These are two gnarly stories for sure that we're covering as well. So like, you know, there's no, there's no lightheartedness at all going on. We didn't, haven't learned, we hadn't learned yet. It took maybe 400 episodes to learn that. I feel like, you know, there's a very distinct time when we learned and it's very soon coming up because we just save all that for the top. Like we learn that basically where it's just like you just keep in the lane. Stop it essentially.

Yeah. But I also think it's funny the double layer of that we were trying to do Y2K murders. So that's why we got obsessed over 16 years and then kind of lost the math on which episode we were actually recording, which is really funny. But then just simply that idea, Y2K murders, where it's like as if that's what was going on culturally at Y2K. You're saying we didn't have our finger on the pulse of a generation by 16 years later doing Y2K murders? Grabbing at numbers and years and just like, this will be good. What if this is good?

We didn't understand the algorithm yet, okay? And now we don't still. And now we realize, fight the algorithm with all of your heart and soul. That's right. Put that on our fucking t-shirt. Okay. So in this episode, Georgia is going to cover the Seda Gaia family murders. This is intense and of course, a cold case.

Here we go. We all have a different way of unwinding. Maybe it's taking a long bath or journaling. For some of us, relaxing means diving into a good old-fashioned murder mystery from the 1920s. Enter June's Journey, the mobile game that takes you on a thrilling adventure filled with secrets and intrigue. Immerse yourself in the glamorous 1920s,

filled with mystery, danger, and romance, with hundreds of mind-teasing puzzles, the next clue is always within reach. Step into the shoes of June Parker, a determined young woman on a quest to solve her sister's murder. Customize your own luxurious estate island, decorating it with beautiful buildings and expansive gardens. Escape reality and dive into a captivating story where each chapter reveals thrilling new storylines and hidden

family secrets. Connect with fellow detectives and share your progress in the game's vibrant community. Get tips, exchange ideas, and enjoy the camaraderie of fellow investigators. Download June's Journey for free on iOS and Android and channel your inner detective. Can you crack the case? Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Goodbye. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? goodbye. Do you want to go first? Do you want me to go first? I think I went first last time didn't I? Yeah. So I looked up a ton of murders and I was like kind of like this is there's not a lot of great 2000 murders that just like have a lot of information in them. We basically painted ourselves into a corner. We totally did.

We need to stop doing that. We need to stop immediately. We need to stop texting each other on Sunday and being like, or like Monday, Hey, what's the topic? I don't know. What do you want the topic to be? I don't know. You mentioned this. Okay, let's do that. I think we need to go back to our original gut feeling of I need to talk about this guy. I think let's try that next week. Or woman. Yeah, let's try that. Let's try that. Cause I have a couple that I really want to get to that would have to be really

weird and specific like topic. Yeah, we don't have to. Nobody gives a shit. But I did find I ended up finding a really good one that I never had heard about. I'm really excited to talk about because it's fucked up. Wonderful. It's the Setagaya family murders. Okay, I don't think I've heard of that on the morning of December 31st 2000. So I have a fucking day.

I got my day away. I just made the cut. I'm under fucking day. I got my day away. Your face, I just made the cut. I just made the cut. I'm under the radar. In a home in Tokyo's Seregaia Ward, Mikio Miyazawa, who's 44, his 41-year-old wife Yasuko, their 8-year-old daughter Nina, and 6-year-old son Ray were found dead in their home. The son had been strangled and the other three were stabbed to death. So the killer or killers, which isn't brought up a lot, but I'll tell you more about that, enters through the bathroom window upstairs

and goes to the son's room. He smothers the little boy in his sleep. How old, sorry? Six-year-old. And then this father, Mikio, had been working in the study on the first floor. Perhaps he heard something, so he climbs the stairs where he encounters the home invader. They fight, and then so the father's body is found at the bottom of the stairwell, stabbed to death. The killer had brought a sashimi knife with him, which is a very long, thin blade, they're really fucking sharp. And the killer and father fought at the staircase and the killer damaged his knife in the process. The killer then attacked the mother, Yasuko, and their eight-year-old daughter,

Nina. It's Nina with two eyes, so I don't know if that's supposed to be something else. So they were sleeping together in the third floor loft of the house. He couldn't finish the job because his knife was broken, so he leaves and goes to the kitchen to get another knife. And it's the family's first aid kit was found open at the scene with some of the daughter's blood on the bandages. So it seems like when the killer walked out of the room, they felt like maybe he was leaving. And so the mom starts bandaging up the, um, the wounds, but he comes off to finish them off, but he has to cover their faces with cloth because while he's killing them, he can't look at them. And yet he, he, it's not a simple murder. He like, it's a pretty brutal murder. So it's

not like he couldn't look at them just to kill them really quickly, which is weird. That's super weird. And it's almost like it's personal, like you must know them or something, one would think. Anyways, or he doesn't want them to look at him. Let's see. Which means he might be having feelings, which means he's probably not a psychopath. Right. Maybe. Right.

But then, then, okay, da, da, da, da da da da da. He continued to stab their bodies after they were dead. Okay, based on their stomach contents, the time the family's death was placed at 1130 PM. And the murderer was injured at some point because his blood was found on bandages. But after killing the family, he didn't leave. He stayed there overnight.

He ate contents from the fridge and he wandered around the house eating popsicles, discarding them in the trash can in the study and two other wrappers in the kitchen. So he was just chilling out. He was literally just chilling out. He spent time. He logged was just chilling out. He was literally just chilling out. He spent time, he went logged on to their computer between midnight and 1 a.m. He browsed the internet for five minutes. Visited. Where'd he go? Buzzfeed? Well actually they know he went to the theater company which was a bookmark by the wife. He tried to buy tickets. What

the fuck? And his fingerprints was found on the mouse, but not the keyboard. So maybe he was just like clicking things that were already on the computer. But what is he thinking? If fingerprints can only be on keyboards, but maybe he was clicking with his palm on the mouse? It's so weird. The thought process of this person doesn't make any sense.

Okay. Then again, sometime in the morning, he used the computer for four minutes. He visited the webpage of the father's company and the daughter's school or the son's school. Then he killed the power to the computer by pulling out the cord, which he took with him from the crime scene. In the living room, credit cards, bank books, driver's license, and other personal identifying information were spread out as if the suspect had been sorting through them. In the second floor bathtub, more scattered papers were located such as receipts, item

from the mother's school, towels, sanitary products used to stop his bleeding and other garbage. So he's got a maxi pad on his stabbed arm or whatever. Yeah. Okay. He also, and this is information that I don't know, he used the restroom and didn't flush so they have like, they know like his meal but that he ate before he came. Sorry. Just like dude, these people in Tokyo were like hardcore detectives.

Yeah. That's terrible. Whose department, who gets that job? That sucks. Yeah, someone very low on the totem pole. Okay, at some point the killer took a nap on the couch in the living room. So he must have known like no one was coming home. No one was expecting that. No one was like gonna come over. Like, cause the mother of the wife lived next door

and in like a touched house. So how did he know she wasn't going to come over and like hang out? Do you think he didn't know she was there or any he's just like, I mean, cause possibly murder an entire family, you probably are crazy in some way. So it would make sense that you're just like, I'll be crazy and chill out and be a weirdo. Yeah. No one will even come over. Okay. Yeah. Sometime around 10. Okay, yeah, you solved it. No, I agree. This case is really interesting because there are so many clues that I'll get to that it should be solved or there should

be a really specific profile of this killer. But I think all the clues are so weird that they sully that they make it even harder. right? So around 1038 to 1045 the family computer received an email that had a required password to open which means the family was still alive by them And then but they must have been killed after midnight before midnight But didn't you say he broke in in the morning? No. Oh, okay. Sorry. He broke in I Thought it was like an all-day torture thing. No, no, no. He broke in in the evening. Okay, good, good. Yeah. Good. Yeah, really? Great. Okay, so here's what's going on. There's a skate park right across the street that

just opened up from the family's house and they were annoyed by the noise and they'd already been planning to move because of it. And a witness report seeing McKeough arguing with the skateboarders a few days before the crime. Another witness reported seeing the father arguing with a bike gang member or the bike gang crew. So he left behind a bunch of clothing that looked like a skater would wear and the police were also able to determine the clone the suspect wore, which is a favorite brand of skateboarders. What? I know.

Weird, right? So speaking of the stuff he left behind, let's see. In the puck, okay, so trace amounts of a red fluorescent agent were found on the suspect's clothing because he left all of his clothing behind. He folded up nearly his clothing and left it behind, which is like, and they were able to find so much information from that. That it seems like a setup. That it seems like a setup.

They found, they were able to find sand in his pockets that they were able to conclude that it was from the Edwards Air Force place in Las Vegas, Nevada. What? That's how specific they were able to get, which has led a lot of people to think that maybe this guy was a skateboarder and his parents were working in the military. They also did DNA testing on him and were able to tell that he's mixed race with the mother of Southern European descent and a father most likely Korean. So he's mixed-race. He could easily be from outside the country. Right, so maybe his parents,

maybe his father or his mother worked on the Air Force base, transferred to Japan, which means his fingerprints wouldn't be on file because normally if you come to if you come to Tokyo or you come to Japan, your fingerprints are taken. Anyways, so he wouldn't be if he was just a kid of the military. So this red fluorescent agent found on the suspect's clothing indicates that the suspect was involved in stage prop design where where this particular chemical is used. And it's not something the family had or would have had around.

And the trace amounts were also found in the garage, however, there was no indication the suspect had ever been in the garage. This led investigators to believe that the suspect may have had contact with the family prior to the killing. And remember that he went to a page that she had to buy tickets tickets for a theater company so maybe she was the mom was involved in the theater company or maybe that killer was continued in also continuing to try to set up a person right to indicate because you left the

clothes there with that agent right then, then you buy those tickets, you're definitely pointing an arrow. Or maybe he was stalking them and stalking her, maybe he had broken into the house before that, the incident, gone in the garage somehow, like kind of profiling the house to see how he could get in there. An old jacket was missing and all of the family's happy new year greeting cards were missing

They were like gone, which is so weird. Someone suggested maybe they had cash in them But they were saying that they're like happy new year's cards Which are like from friends. Yeah, and you don't really money that unless that's a tradition or right? So some people say it looks like the work of a professional killer because how easily he killed the children was fine doing that. It's probably not his clothing since he left it behind. And then maybe he wanted to look like a skater just to kind of throw them off and be like, leave them in a different direction. It's just so many random things. And also, oh, they also knew that the clothes

were washed in hard water, not soft water, so they hadn't been washed in Japan. Oh, wow. I know, what a weird little detail. I wonder, does Vegas have hard water? Right. Probably, right. Yeah, it's just, it's frustrating that they can do

so many little elements about these things but yet not have a psychological profile or You know just be a little more Specific as to who it could be like they have an age range. So that's probably something between their 20s and 30s Also, why was the little boy strangled and everybody else stabbed? Yeah, is that purely just convenience of, you know, wherever his knife was or I mean like it's fascinating. Like what, what the differences, what the details actually point to. That's why I can't stand once it haven't been solved because it doesn't

teach you anything. That's why I love them because there's, because they're so, it's such a bigger, it's just a bigger, I feel like I'm let down when I'm like, oh, it's just some shithead psychopath. It's like not even worth anything. He should have just killed himself rather than like, there's this mysterious guy in the world. It could be a big deal.

It could be this crazy cover up. Like all the possibilities are so much better than what the reality is, which is that it's some fucking asshole. Well, also because you use your imagination and you basically write a mystery story of like, it's a person that worked with the wife at the theater company, but he dressed up like a skateboarder.

Like there's- Because she had told him there was a skate park and he knew that there was issues. And there was problems and that's the perfect- Totally. Decoy, oh. Maybe he just came to murder the father because the father was you know a business associate of his and he needed you know and just the family were witnesses and so he had to kill them all and just kind of freaked out and stayed in the house until he figured

out what to do but so that points away from a professional in any way so does I think so does like eating popsicles and all that shit and shitting Totally it makes me think of Mike from Breaking Bad and how when he goes to do stuff like you've seen all that right where he he bought like the the that was actually from Better Call Saul, but a character on there buys He knows he's being followed and he wants to make sure nobody gets the jump on him, so he buys a welcome mat and underneath it he puts that ditto paper, so he knew when people were standing at his front door.

That is awesome. It was like stuff like that. I love that, or when they put a small watch underneath the wheel of the car and when it runs over there, the time stops of when that person left. Didn't they do that in that too? Probably, that was probably in Breaking Bad, right? Yeah, some show I saw where they,

it was like a watch stopped at this time, that's what time they left. I had a roommate in San Francisco that used to keep his pot in a drawer in his room and when I would go to steal it while he was at work, one time I found a hair laying across the top So I pulled pick the hair up and I went and I took the pot as much pot as I saw fit that I deserved Didn't pay for wasn't mine shut the drawer and put the hair back. Yeah, so he could and then he's a stoner

So he was just paranoid to accuse me of taking his pot. If you know he's got some If you close the door, yeah, if you put a little saliva on the hair and stick it to the thing or a little tape on there, the hair will break when you open the door. Yeah. Love that trick. Love that trick. Never used it. But just the idea that he and I were involved in those kind of, that level of spy versus spy, stoner bullshit was super enjoyable. It makes me want to ask you all these questions, but I don't want to put you in a bad position,

but it makes me go like, are serial killers common in Japan or rare? Like, do we know anything culturally? Because that's like, I feel like we never hear about, it's like every once in a while you hear about that terrible Girl the girl that got tortured for 30 days by this awful fucking high schoolers Or there was one guy that killed children that they caught recently or whatever But you it's not like here where they're fucking coming out of everybody's ass all the time

Or it's a lot of gang killings. Right. Yeah. It doesn't seem like there are mass killings, but not as many serial killers. No. People not sneaking in your window and killing an entire family. Someone hypothesized that that's why the cops have a lot of forensic capabilities, but not a lot of problems because they don't deal with a lot of murders like this, so they couldn't really put it together as to what would happen. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, and they say the cops are, I don't know if it's that way anymore, but for a long time, the cops in Japan were just completely in bed with the, Yeah. What is it? Ayaka.

Azuka? Don't bring it up if you don't know, Karen. Don't mention it if you don't know the word. Listen, this is an uncut, unedited podcast. In your face. We don't want to look smart for you. We're in your face with our ignorance. Yeah.

Doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. So that's my, yeah, the... That's a good one. Setagaya Family Murders. And how long ago did it happen? 16 years ago. Oh, that's right. And there's been there as there's been 2,000 4600 officers involved in the case today,

which seems like too many. Yeah. And they might then they've received more than 16,000 pieces of information from the public. Get the killer remains at large. What if what's that? What's that old lady next door? No, that's what I want to know that her daughter's her entire family I mean she must and I guess I don't know but the the house is left the same like left

Like nobody's moved in there There's your horror movie sure people go there every year and place flowers on the date and stuff It's sad. It was like a sweet looking little family Of course, I mean not that they would deserve it if they were not sweet looking, but they just look very normal. Right. It's really sad. Please tell me that you have the solution to this.

You know, I don't. I need to hear from you. It's awful. And I keep thinking like, well, it was only 2016 when we recorded this. So maybe it's only been a little while. so maybe they'll solve it in the future. But I forget how long ago 2016 was, and there's still not answers, and it's really tragic. According to Japan Today, police hand out flyers every December with hope that someone will come forward with new information. In the past, police have also displayed a mannequin wearing similar clothes to what they believe the killer war because it was like skater gear.

And there's so many specifics about the killer that I feel like someone in that area knew who he was. Maybe he was just a drifter coming through town. Someone had seen him. Maybe it's in one of those tips they got. Who the fuck knows? Well, also the sand in the pocket being from an Air Force base. So it's like, clearly this was a person who, I think, clearly it was a person who got in

and got out. Yeah, but yeah. Just like. You think that was a hit, probably. I mean, I don't know. And the whole, the hard water, cold water thing like that is just so specific and so strange. Yep.

And also a police spokesman said that the department will never give up until the case is solved. There is a 20 million yen reward for information leading to the arrest of the killer, or killers, which is about $136,000 US dollars. So that's how we got so far. Hopefully when we do the rewind of the rewind, we'll be able to tell you that this was solved. All right, so now it's time for your story from

episode 15. And this one is about Dr. Harold Shipman. My murder is like the one you talked about of a boring person. That's just some guy guy when you find out you go this schlub. But he's kind of like the height of that, which I think is really fascinating. Every time I've seen him on your 20, 20 or your 48 hours or your 28 hours, the combo program of those two. Little longer day, 28 hours. It's a little bit longer of a day. It's so much murder that we have to extend the day four hours. So mine, and a lot of

people have talked about this on the Facebook page. Sorry to mention it again, but it's Dr. Harold Shipman, who was a GP in England. He had, I think it was near Manchester. I'm not going to talk about England like I know anymore because did you see the posts about how wrong I was about the accent from Happy Valley? It was hilarious how wrong I was. No, it sounded right to me. Of course it did. And the thing I forget is there's people in other countries listening to me bullshit. People keep saying to us, when are you going to cover Australian?

Like Australia's got some like gnarly murders. Gnarly. Good ones. Crazy ones. We gotta do a couple of Australia episodes at some point. Well, we did touch on it with your guy, the mystery man that they think they've solved. Did you see that article? Yeah.

The down, what's that guy's called? The, um, your guy. I know, I know. It's just, no. Oh, forget it. Let's forget it. So my guy, Dr. Harold Shipman. Have I mentioned I'm anxiety and I don't sleep at night? I don't sleep at night. Have I mentioned that this is just a podcast and if you need to know factual shit, go ahead

and log on to cnn.com. Or maybe don't. Okay. So Dr. Harold Shipman is a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor.

He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. to CNN.com. Or maybe don't. Okay, so Dr. Harold Shipman is a doctor. He studied at the Leeds School of Medicine.

He graduated in 1970. And the interesting thing about him to note is that his mother, who he was very close to, had lung cancer. And so she used to have morphine administered to her in the end stages. Lung cancer is a terrible fucking disease and it's very bad in the end. And she died because a doctor gave her morphine and basically it ended up killing her. On purpose or an accident? Well I just think it was like near the end you know maybe it was just like one too many. I don't know the details, but he witnessed the pain go away even though she had this terrible lung cancer. And he watched doctors come and basically take it

away and whatever. And then she died like in one of those moments and he was there for all of that. And it was when he was 17. So it's kind of a crucial time. So this is a person who is smart enough to become a doctor, but who goes for this incredibly traumatic experience growing up. Okay, so this is what I love. He goes to medical school. He graduates in 1970. In 1975, so five years later, he's on his way of becoming a doctor, he gets caught for forging demoral prescriptions. And he gets fined 600 pounds. He goes to rehab in New York.

Don't know where that is, won't talk about where it is. Then he ends up working at Donnie Brook Medical Center in Hyde, which is near Manchester. All of this is off Wikipedia. I don't know it factually in my own head. So he basically starts working at this place in 1977, and he works there throughout the 80s, and then he starts his own surgery in 1993. He's a respected member

of the community. He's just your standard awesome doctor. Until 1998, when Debra Massey from Frank Massey and Sons Funeral Parlor goes to the corner and says, we're getting a lot of deaths from Dr. Shipman's patients and there's a lot of cremation forms that he's the only person that has to sign it. Like, come on, man. Yeah. Duh. So, or maybe they, I'm sorry, the funeral home needs to countersign the cremation form.

Oh, okay. But that's when she notices and ends up going to another doctor and being like, here's the thing. There's all these old ladies, red flag, no optopsies. Yeah. Going straight to cremation. Yeah. It's all from good old doctor shipment down the street. Yeah. Maybe somebody should look into this. Yeah. And she's going to end up dead. Isn't she? Uh, no, I know of. But it could be. Not according to Wikipedia. In my wildest imagination, this bench and dead.

She had a needle in her neck that night. Cremated. So they start the shipment report, they start to look into it in the police department. But of course, what do they do? What do they always do? They assign it to inexperienced cops. So they don't really find any serious problems. It's all kind of like, well, we can't prove anything. It's that old thing. And so, uh, everyone trusts the doctor. It's a doctor. He's a beard. He looks so plain. He's totally the person that you would see waiting for the bus and never look at twice. I didn't know a lot of the story, but I've seen his photo and he looks just like a, like he looks like your stepdad.

Exactly. Yes. And he ruins it because he isn't exciting and he didn't do, he didn't do these. He's one of the, I think they say that he's like the biggest serial killer there is because of the numbers. They just can't prove the numbers. But like, so they proved three for sure. So he went, you know, he, he went to jail,

ended up hanging himself because, you know, of all of it. But then once they start digging into it, and they do what they call the shipment report, they, they assign people to look into all of the people that he has treated, all of the people that have died and were cremated. And it's basically a majority of elderly women who up until that point were in perfectly fine health.

They didn't go in with like long-term illnesses that he helped them get out of. He was just like... No, it wasn't like Kevorkian. Yeah. It wasn't an unofficial Kevorkian It was an old lady who would go to dr. Shipman because she'd be like these corns on my feet or whatever because he's a GP Which here means general practice means like you go to them for whatever. I have a sore throat

I think I got the flu and I'm old we have to be careful sounds good sounds good Fucking but in his mind was he like I'm getting I'm helping you not have to ever go through this. Like in his, or is he just enjoying? Well, I'm positive he enjoyed it. Because what that is, is you basically are becoming the angel of death. So, and apparently that's a very common thing in doctors is they get the God complex.

Where they can save your life, and the healthy normal ones, which is hopefully the majority, I almost immediately said majority, which who knows? They're all about saving and doing no harm and they get all their joy and power from saving you. But there are the ones and it happens, it happens to nurses a lot too,

where they get the joy from deciding that it's time for you to go. And you can see where the logic would be if his mother was suffered with lung cancer and he watched somebody give her morphine and kind of like make it all go away. Yeah. You could see the logic behind,

it's an old lady, she's living, maybe once he gets to know them, I'm not sure the details, but like that he basically decides like, should we're going to wrap this up for you. I want to know his mindset. I really want to read his manifesto, which sounds like he's the kind of person who would write one. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't know.

I'm just saying if you have like, yeah, like I'm so curious about his mindset if he was being like malicious or if he thought he was doing something good. Well, I think he thought he was doing good. I did see a murder show on this, on Dr. Shipman. And I do remember being bored while I was watching it. Because once I got the fact that basically it would, it would be people who were in fine health, elderly ladies.

He also was suspected of causing the death of a four-year-old child in the early days. So there could have been like, it could be that thing where that was a mistake, but then what he realized was he could have the joy of having that same thrill of killing someone, but cover it so perfectly. It sounds a little like Munchausen by Proxy, doesn't it? Yes, but he's not getting empathy or sympathy, he's getting power. It's probably also getting praise in a way that's like,

I don't know, like there's something about it too, where it's like, oh, thank you, doctor, for everything you tried to do, and you, you know. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yes, and maybe it's the, what I think is kind of interesting is it's like, so when you're a doctor, you are the elite. People can be in the way communities are based.

It's like, you're the one person that can help. You're the person everybody goes to. You automatically are the person people trust because you do all this good and you're upstanding in the community or whatever. So when like a taxi driver goes and says, hey, guess what? My mother died and she shouldn't have

because she had all this stuff we knew and she wasn't sick and da da da. They go, the cops go, okay sir, which is literally what happened. It was, there was a guy who went to the cops first, that's the reason they started that first inquiry. And then they were like, yeah, there's nothing we can prove and we don't.

And basically we don't believe you. You're just a working stiff. You're a blue collar guy and this is our doctor. And it's gonna ruin his reputation if you even look into it. Right. You know what I mean? Like if you have to start asking questions of other patients, you have to subpoena his records, it's going to make, and it's not true, it's going to

make him look really bad and he could probably sue for defamation maybe? Probably. I'm making that up. Well, like everything else. Hard facts. On our podcast. But also, it's that thing, you know those, when you see the doctors who kill their wives and they keep that mask on after they're convicted in jail, they keep it on forever because they

have already turned into this person that's convinced they've done all the work of this is what I'm doing, this is why it's right or this is why I get to do whatever I want. So you would then be facing a person who it just made me think of like a forensic files that I saw that was in Canada about a doctor who shot this woman up with like basically the stuff they give you when you're having a baby so that you just don't feel anything. And you go paralyzed and you kind of are numb and he rapes her and and Then like and then thinks that she's gonna forget about it

It's basically a kind of a rohypnol cocktail thing and then she accuses him of it Everyone says you're a crazy bitch. You're a crazy bitch. They do blood tests It's dead. The blood doesn't match the DNA doesn't match your crazy bitch your crazy bitch for years They find out he had he had injected number that I do and the guy with his someone else's blood Or what was yes a one of his patients So he's setting up another patient what to defend himself against a rape of a first patient and he had the blood injected Into his arms so they keep, you're the crazy bitch. So basically you're taking on, when you take on a doctor, there's so much, they truly

are the elite. And if you are just a waitress or you're just a cab driver, you're automatically wrong. Or a prostitute. No way. God forbid a prostitute. You know what drives me? A sex worker. A sex worker, excuse me. In a perfect world, like when you watch these video, these 48

hour videos of like, you know, the father did this, the husband did this, and they're in court, and then the jury says guilty or not guilty, whatever. When they say guilty, I feel like I wish that the guy would have to go, damn it, you got me. Like I wish they would have to admit it if they did or not. That's exactly right. Like, well, you got me. Yeah. Because I just want to know, like, is that the wrong, there's always that like, what if the wrong person's in prison? But I just want, I want to know and you're a fucking

asshole. So if you did it, like just own up to it so everyone can move the fuck on. I know. You got me. How great would that be? Your state- It just like starts laughing. State or country require, okay, you're right. I was like, would that be like starts laughing. It's a country. Okay. This is over. Shakes the prosecutor's hands. You know what? Fair play. Yeah. Fair play. You got me. I totally, where was it? 459 people died while under his care. They just can't prove how many were victims and how many he was just a doctor that certified his death and that it didn't have anything to do with. I wonder how many is like standard.

It can't be more than a hundred. It can't be. How many people die in a year in a small town? I don't know if it's small. Is it a year? No, no, no, no, no. That was over. That's like a, uh, almost a 30 year span. 71 to 98. Wow. And that they, But almost a 30 year span, 71 to 98. And they think the probable number of definite victims between 71 and 98 is 250, but 459 people died in that amount of time. They just can't, they can't prove.

I have a question, important question. Where does the year 2000 fit in at all this? Because guess what? I think he got arrested in 2000. Okay. Yes, that's right. Because they started, the lady from Frank Massey and Sons Funeral Home, and her name is Deborah Massey. So I want to go, are you the unfortunate daughter that works at Frank Massey and son's funeral home? That sucks. Sorry, Debra. And also high five for getting this whole thing

going. But yeah, I think she went to them in 98. And so basically he ended up getting looked into and arrested in 2000. Debra Ruhfus I'm going to accept that. Lauren Ruhfus I swear to God. Debra Ruhfus I'm not going to make you start over. Lauren Ruhfus Please don't because this was borderline homoca level lack of information. Yeah. I found a lot of those.

There was one of a girl who was riding her bike and just disappeared and all these people copped to it, but they didn't. It was just fucking sad. For a 2000 one? Yeah. Yeah. That was the only other one that I found that was that interesting to me. I feel like people thought that year was going to be way, way worse than it actually turned out to be. Well, I mean, you're just under the fucking horizon of 9-11. So that's

right. You know, it was interesting going through and I don't have the education to even like really theorize, but I kept seeing all these things where they were like, nuclear secrets leaked. There are all these things in the year 2000 that I just kept going, I wonder if this has anything to do with 9-11. You know what I mean? Here and there, there would just be a thing. Nuclear secrets.

There was something that was- Bombing somewhere. Murder of all these people in this thing, yeah. Tide, man. What if in this podcast we fucking uncover some crazy government secrets and then we're on the run. Yes. Oh my God. And we only like all the like Facebook group people like were there like hide us out. They're like created an underground railroad across the country and throughout the world. Now

that we know that there are people in Wales listening. The only way that the government knows that we were there is that they have all t-shirts and given them all free t-shirts for couch surfing. We have to make new t-shirts for when we're on the run. Totally. It'll be like the 2016 tour. It'll show what cities we're going to be in, which is a bad idea. That's right. We have to keep changing the cities on the back of the shirt around.

Keep adding them and then get arrest canceled. No, not happening. Ugh, what a fucking monster, that guy. So crazy. Okay, so I didn't clearly state in this episode, Harold Shipman was officially charged with the murders of 15 women ranging in age from 49 to 81. In January of the year 2000, a jury found Shipman guilty of 15 counts of murder plus a count of forgery because he had tried to forge the will of a patient named Kathleen Grundy before he murdered her. Interesting, because then it shows motive. Because we were always like, did he, was he trying to be, you know, merciful somehow in his mind?

Or what was it about? Like, angel of death, yeah. And to get money is just a clear fucking greedy motive. Also, it makes me think what can they go through and check? I mean, maybe they already have, but like just check all of that because then, yes, it's not such a fascinating psychological study anymore. It's just like gross sociopath.

He was sentenced to life in prison, but he died by suicide while in prison. And according to his Wikipedia page, he is quote, the only British doctor to have been convicted of murdering patients. Wow. Yeah, we do a lot of nurses, eventually, but not doctors. Right. Kind of tied to the thing we were talking about at the last show of like women being

poisoners when they're serial killers. So it is, it's a real weird crossover. Here's, here's the only good part of this conversation. You at one point go, where does the year 2000 play into all of this? And I go, I think he got arrested in 2000. I think he got arrested. So even then when it's like, this is the theme, it's your big chance to prove why you didn't know what episode it was and you're so excited about Y2K and then you didn't fucking, there's no ending. Well, I think that's why this is the last episode where we do themes. Thank God. This is it. We gave it a couple episode run.

It was hard. Yes. To put a little, so then we were just like, let's just do stories we can't wait to tell each other. Let's just get our book reports done by any means necessary. Right. And then, yeah, the next thing would be now actually get them done. Right. Karen. Oh. Okay.

Let's see how we wrap this up. Here's the end of episode 15. I have to go to therapy now. Oh, yeah. I scheduled therapy after this podcast because... I think that's good timing. It probably is. All right.

Well then we'll save. You know what we should do is do a mini with emails because we've got a bunch of great emails. Definitely. That's what I was just checking to see if we had time for. But this is from Sam. And the title of it is My Grandma and Albert Fish. Hell yeah.

Right? Hey ladies. I just finished listening to the cannibal episode, which my dad and I listened to in the car to and from getting some groceries. Oh, dad. Hi. After you started introducing Fish's story, my dad turns to me and says, you know, your grandma and her sister were babysat by Albert Fish. Are you kidding me? To which I responded, shut your mouth. But he was totally serious and is surprised. I don't remember my grandma talking about it when I was much younger. He says they lived next door to him in this same apartment building.

My grandma Joan was born in 1931 in Brooklyn and the Wikipedia says Fish was apprehended in 1934. So I doubt she would have remembered much, but her sister Doris is a couple years older and it's feasible that she would remember this little old man, Reed, super insane, disturbed, and terrifying creature. Unfortunately, my grandma died a few years ago and I have never actually met Doris,

so I can't back up any of this with face-to-face memories. But my dad isn't one to make up creepy stories and I only have third-hand info, but I had to share it with you on the chance it might be true. You know what, we're all about that. It's true. It is true to us.

I'm gonna go on record. It's true. Because the joy of it. Wow. The joy of it. Who the fuck would let- Can you imagine, sorry, this is the end. Can you imagine finding out that the neighbor

you'd been depending on to watch your kids while you were at work? Was America's America's boogie man? Can you I just don't think of a time in my life when I would leave my baby with an old man Like no matter for any reason a he'll drop the baby. Yeah, and then like worst-case scenario. He'll eat the baby. Yeah Although that I really do think Albert fish is that thing And like worst case scenario, he'll eat the baby. Yeah. Although that, I really do think Albert Fish is that thing. He was unimaginable to people up until that point. Unimaginable.

That's true. That an old man would be that awful in every way. People still kind of trust old people a little too much. I feel like when they say oh look at that like cute sweet old man I'm like well he pedophiles get old that's exactly oh man not sure do not see us get old they like like really mean bitches who are like the mean people they get old they live the longest they live like everyone gets old including pedophiles and murderers so don't fuck don't fall for that shit

like it's insulting to old people to immediately assume that they're sweet and fucking well intentioned. That's right You know by the time you're old you're either completely evil or an American hero and that's pretty much it Pick one the week the week had been weeded out Or they've been killed by dr. Shipman out. Or they've been killed by Dr. Shipman. Calm British Dr. Shipman. Can you imagine he was just like, yes, put your foot up on my knee and we'll look at your corns. You're dead. Would you like a tea or anything? Oh, oh, goodbye. Goodbye. Good night. Good night. The thing is to trust no one except the people who are like clearly displaying their craziness. That's right. Right? Yeah. Because everyone's crazy. So the people who

are hiding the most, the wellest. The wellest. Thank you. Are the craziest. Look at us. We have a fucking podcast talking about our crazy. Guys, it isn't the worst thing in the world. Uh, you can be crazy. Just be a little lighthearted about it. Yeah. I know. That's, I think that's the point. Is that the point? Maybe you don't have to take needles and put them under your skin cause you're crazy. The way Albert fish did, right? Wasn't that filled with needles? In his penis. In his penis, really?

Yes! God, that guy was intense. Yeah, they found a bunch of needles up there. I mean. That was urethra. Dude, take a walk around the block. Breathe deeply. You know what would have helped him?

Meditation. Yeah, that's right, transcendental meditation. Yeah, probably. It probably would have. Clear your mind of those needle thoughts. Clear your urethra of those needle thoughts, Mr. Fish. Right. Should we shut this one down? Yeah, definitely. I think it should have ended a while ago.

It definitely should. Well, thanks. We're looking forward to episode 16 next week. Where we'll talk about 15 of the best murders ever. I love it. Thanks for listening. We're at My Favorite Murder everywhere and tell the iTunes how much you like us and rate and review and subscribe. And thanks for listening. We appreciate your support.

Yeah. And stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. All right. So another great hometown in that one. Like shocking and awful. Yes. And kind of the beginning of your parents telling you shit that why haven't you told

me this? That's fucking insane. Well, and then once you know the story, you're like, oh yes, never tell a child anything ever related to that. It's like so disturbing. So as we said in this episode, we first hear the phrases, look, listen, and you're an occult, call your dad. And we actually right now have some really cute brand new you're an occult items designed

by Jess Rotter, who's a listener of the podcast. What's up? So go to myFavoriteMurder.com, you can find all that merch there. And now I think we pick a new title for episode 15, although I think it's comedic perfection. This title and the entire Mr. Magoo handling of everything around it is like, well, this is comedy at our best, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. We're correcting ourselves before the show even starts. No. But we could go with Y2 What? Oh, yeah. Or of course, you're in a cult called Your Dad. Right. We could use Don't Go Anywhere, which

was you talking about Jonestown and going to second locations. That's right. The great quote from 30 Rock, never go with a hippie to a second location. That's right. I mean, it fits so well in this scenario. And then little longer day after you call 20, 20, 48 hours or no, you call it 28 hours. 28 hours, which is a combo of 20, 20 and 48 hours. I just wish people understood how I

got up in the morning, drank a pot of coffee, worked a full job, and then tried to figure out how to get my goddamn podcast homework done. Little did I know. But you did it. Little did I know. And here you are. You fucking did it. I did it and I was putting my coins into the slot machine. You're on your way to a different win and working hard for a different win and then this fucking other win came and body slammed you out of the blue. And it wasn't even a

win you were looking for. So it's almost like a double win. And I think that's kind of what you were talking about at the top. We don't know we don't know what's best No, we think we know what's best. We've dedicated ourselves to entire things and get very identified with it Yeah, but the truth is that by the time this podcast started getting popular It was actually really exciting to consider. Yeah that I wouldn't have to keep doing that job because it, oh wait, now I can do my thing. I don't have to write for somebody else. I don't have to do it for somebody else. Right. There's other avenues. You never know what's going to happen in your life. I mean, I don't think we were older. I think we were normal, but a lot of people are like, they decided to do with their lives in their twenties,

which is bananas to me. And you just never know what's gonna happen in the future. Everything could completely change. What I'm learning through all of our rewinding is that the key to life truly is pivoting. Being able to pivot. I really think it's crucial and it's hard to do because you sometimes don't want to, it's a control issue. Or it's like, I had my plan

and I was supposed to be this thing and it's like why? Yeah. I was supposed to be a TV writer. What? No, actually I wanted to be Annie in the musical Annie. That's actually the true dream. Yeah and it's still possible, Karen. You're working it. You still got that keep that dream alive, perm that hair, dye it red, because you never know when they're going to be like, oh no, our lead dropped out and our second's out too. Does anyone in the audience here at Annie on Broadway know all the words? I know all the words. And I've got the hair to prove it.

And I'm keeping this perm tight. Yeah, dreams do come true, everybody. Yeah, but sometimes you got to kick that door open to that dream. You know? Yeah, that's right. It's not all floaty. No. Anyway, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?