My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 17: Episode SE7ENteen

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode SE7ENteen. Georgia covered the murder-suicide of wrester Chris Benoit and Karen shared the murder of Jennifer Moore. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!   Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder   Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-17-episode-se7enteen My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. When it comes to Smartwater Alkaline 9.5 Plus pH with antioxidant, there's nothing to overthink. So while you may be performing mental gymnastics over whether the post-work gym crowd is worth it, if you'll be able to find a spot for your yoga mat, or if that spin instructor will make you late for dinner again. Don't overthink how you hydrate. Life's full of choices. Smart Water Alkaline is a simple one.

Ah. Ah. Ah. Hi, it's Roz Hernandez, beloved comedian, and your guide to all things paranormal on my podcast Ghosted by Roz Hernandez. Each week I chat with celebrity guests, comedians, and who knows, maybe even a ghost or two. So grab your popcorn, light a candle, and get ready to dive into the weird and wonderful. Whether

you believe in ghosts or not, you won't want to miss it. Listen to Ghosted by Roz Hernandez wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday. Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our new special Wednesday podcast where we rewind to our oldest episodes and provide some eight years later commentary for you. So necessary.

Today, we're rewinding back to episode 17 called episode 17. But here's the thing, the seven is spelled like the movie seven. So it's clever. It's really clever. It's clever and it's absolutely a breach of trademark. For sure. So true. And this episode we posted on Thursday,

May 19th of the year 2016. Remember? Okay, so now it's time for you to grab your closest friend of me, the one guy from the deli and someone dealing with perimenopause so we can all listen along together because now we get to all be day one listeners. I've been all those things to someone at some point in my life, just to point out. I mean, haven't we? I would hope we all have.

You have to fully live. You do. All right, so let's listen to the intro of episode 17. What was that about that breath? I don't know. I guess I was trying to clear a channel for this episode. Get ready for what was to come. The ride of your life. Get ready for a roller coaster of emotion.

Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's do episode 17 of My Favorite Murder starring George R. Stark. And Karen Kilgara. Hi everybody. Hi, here we are. Hi.

Hi. Welcome if you just started. Hi, what's going on in your life? How are you guys? Why do you like murder so much? What's up with you? Did some, did you see something weird as an eight year old or have you always had a weird feeling inside? Can you talk to anyone else in your life about it? Is this why you're here? Is that nobody else is interested in your, and you're a freak?

Yeah. Cause that's why we're here. Hey. So good. Good. Good. So here we are. Good on you. That was the intro. Yeah. These are getting better. I think.

I think they're getting very strong. I think we're professionals now. People are like, I just started, I hit play on this podcast, but now I don't know what's happening. Yeah. I'm not sure if it actually started. People are just talking at each other. Are you, I feel a little pressure. Do you? Yeah. Oh yeah. Guys, our ratings went through the roof. Our ratings just blew. I mean, let's just say it. Let's just say it.

We think that there is a computer hacker that's gone onto iTunes and hacked us into number one. And clearly they love us for some reason this hacker. If Andrew Solmson, if this is you, thank you, my friend. You're a good person. It's insane. We're number one on the iTunes comedy podcast list. Yeah. Like our, not our picture, but our logo.

It's so exciting. Yeah, it's very, it's super cool. And we do want to thank Jack O'Brien, who is the host of the Cracks podcast. That can't be a coincidence that that thing got posted and then suddenly all kinds of people are like, hey, I just discovered your podcast. Yeah. So thanks, Jack. You're the best. Yeah. And easy on the eyes. Pretty cute. But he's married. Dimples. Calm down. Everybody's married. Yeah. Everyone chill. But that Yeah, it was super fun to be on the podcast. It was so

much fun. He was great. Yeah, this is all like, this is all I'm saying. I feel like, it's weird that we had an idea to party. You had the gumption to actually make me do it and then something like that would happen. I do that. I make people do stuff a lot. It's good. It's good. Otherwise I'll just fall into a deep dark depression. Yeah, same here. I'll go into my TV room, close the curtains, like Morticia Adams, and then watch British procedurals until I die of old age.

This is why my my blinds that you see right here, my drapes, are sheer, because otherwise it's just depression, though. Yeah, oh, that's true. You know what I mean? Because when you can't be in the complete dark, you can't be in the complete dark. Are you telling me we need to go to IKEA and get some new curtains for my TV room?

We are abso-fecundively saying that. I'm going to burn those curtains. I have straight up hotel blackout curtains in my TV room. We are absolutely saying that. I'm gonna burn those curtains. I have straight up hotel blackout curtains in my TV room. I have that in my bedroom, but in here it's like, I'll get depressed. Yeah. Although I think you cured my depression.

I know, it's very helpful. Although at the same time, I have this thing where dusk makes me really fucking depressed. Dust? Dusk. Oh yes. Yeah. It just reminds me of being a kid,

which sucks as everyone knows. Being home alone and being like, do I make my own dinner? I'm only nine. I'm not gonna eat anything because it's too depressing to eat alone. Oh, I had the opposite reaction. That's funny.

I was like, I can make toast. I'll make a whole loaf of toast. Cheese toast, man. Comforts you. It's like a kid recipes, like crackers with butter on them. How gross is that? What about, did you ever melt butter mixed in brown sugar and vanilla and just eat that out of a cup? Never done that. let me just tell you. Poor man's chocolate chip cookie. Delicious.

You're basically taking everything good in chocolate chip cookies and none of the bullshit. Fuck baking soda. Totally. Raw eggs. Who needs to go away chickens. I'm just going to eat the good stuff. I love that. Wait, did you include incorporate any chocolate chips in there?

No, I don't think we ever had. eat the good stuff. I love that. Wait, did you include incorporate any chocolate chips in there? No, I don't think we ever had. We had very little food when I was a kid in my house at all times. So it was like, what do I have on hand? I'm going to wrap a slice of turkey around a pickle spear and that's dinner. Totally. I do have a very early memory of drinking cough syrup one time and jumping on the bed. That's what I was doing that afternoon by myself. It's full that you knew that cough syrup drinking would be fun. I don't think if I had known

that I would have been. I mean if there's ever a sign that a child is going to be an alcoholic for sure. That was it. That was like the Tom Hanks episode of Family. Was it not Family Matters? Family Ties. Family Ties. Yeah. Family Ties. All right. When he drinks maraschino cherry liquor.

For real. I mean, just like, what's happening? I once cut open a tea leaf, a tea bag, poured the tea leaves into a little bit of paper towel, rolled it up like a joint because I wanted to see what it was like to smoke cigarettes. It was like 10. And I smoked that in front of a mirror to see how cool I looked. Did you look so cool?

I know. Did you barf from that? It's basically lit on fire. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I would imagine that would go up pretty easily. The point is don't let your kids be latchkey kids.

Well, one time my mom was home. She was just on the phone and when she got on the horn, she would be on it for like an hour and a half. And I just lit the bed on fire in the back. I was playing with matches. And I was just like, it was like, strike a match, watch the flame go up, hold it until it got down to my fingers. Done it a million times. Drop it on the bed.

Because I was like five. So I was just like, I'm done with that. Drop it on the bed. So they're the most flammable. Everything is so hollyester. They like spray extra flammable on everything. This is when they were trying to light children on fire any way possible. Yeah. I'm pretty sure what the top layer was an electric blanket, which is also the most flammable thing of all time.

And so basically I started a fire and it got into a, like say a one foot ring of fire in the middle of the bed. And I went out to tell my mom there's a fire on the bed and she, I was like walked up to her and she waved me off. I'll never forget. She's on the phone with the crazy long cord. It was mustard yellow. She was walking around the kitchen doing stuff. And I would literally as like imagine a five year old me with my finger up, pardon me ma'am. And she's like, Oh, out of here. And then so I went back and checked it and that was a three foot ring. Are you serious? Yeah. And then that time I was like, mom, and she's like, honey, I told you, and I was like, the beds on fire.

And then suddenly I had a bad reputation in my family. Oh, I'm the asshole. Well who has a number one fucking murder podcast now? Mom. This is the ultimate revenge. Oh, that's hilarious. Also our numbers are skyrocketing in Britain, the UK. Australia loves us. Those are going... Latvia, I hear. Really? No, I hate that. That's wherevia, I hear. Really?

No, I hate that. That's where my family's from. Is it for real? So maybe a bunch of hardstarks are listening. That'd be amazing. Yeah, Longford and Galway, Ireland, heads up. That's where my people are from. Nice.

Represent. Well, they ran us out because we're Jews, so fuck off Latvia. Oh wait, they ran us out because we're Catholics. I feel like we were made to have a podcast together. Yeah. Our ancestors wanted this for us. Our ancestors and our shitty little kids' selves. I just want to mention someone on the Facebook page, if you are new to this podcast, we're all about that Facebook page, please join it and join in wonderful and sometimes quite frightening

conversations that go on there. Someone brought up the fact that we pitched out a very interesting and exciting 911 phone call identifier game that we also mentioned on the Cracked Podcast, but we still haven't done and there are some people who are pretty pissed. I explained that I'm very scared of 911 calls. They want us to do it anyway. So that might be a good mini. I really want to know. Yeah, for sure. I really want to know if we can tell. Like it's just

like the other yesterday I watched some videos of Ted Bundy being interviewed only to see if I could tell if like if I had met him, if I would have known. Yeah. You know, it's like the same thing with the 911 calls. I want to know if we want to play three calls by husbands reporting their wives dead. Two of them are legit. One of them, the husband killed her and we want to know if we can tell which one is the one who killed her. So we have to listen to two real 911 calls of a man whose wife has just been killed. You know, when you say it like that, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone's being real.

It's playing very fast and loose about the idea of this game, quote unquote. Yeah, you're right. Called Nightmare Fuel. What about two? What about one is fake and one is real? That I can handle. And if we play it once, because I have listened to these calls. I've watched plenty of forensic files or whatever, but they're just horrifying.

I know. Even when they're fake, I think they. I know. Even when they're fake, I think they might even be more horrifying when they're fake, because it's embarrassing. How about we don't do it? Let's pitch a ton of great games that people love the idea of and never do. And then never do it.

Why doesn't someone play the game with the Facebook followers? And that can be on them. That's a good idea. And then report back how scarred you are. Yep. Once you're done. How scarred you are and what percentage of people knew.

It's interesting that you bring up the Ted Bundy interview though, because I, as well as a couple of people who are listening and have been talking about it, am rereading The Stranger Beside Me, the Ann Rule classic, who is a crime writer who worked with Ted Bundy on what was basically a suicide hotline in Seattle in the 70s. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her.

And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to do a book about her. And then I was like, Oh, I believe it was like the outer part of Seattle and this really awesome like Lake Park. I can't remember what it was called. Sorry. And he approached six different women that day to help him with his boat that wasn't actually

there. Holy shit. Help. Can you help me with my boat? Then he gets into the car and then he says, Oh, actually the boats at home. Sorry. I didn't explain that. And, um, that's where he got at least one girl. Now I'm thinking he may have gotten to that day. I can't remember. I just read this yesterday, but I keep reading it and then falling asleep out of, I think like I need to leave this, these facts and go into a dream world. But it just makes me think he must have been so low key because he looked like he would wear a tennis outfit and he was really good looking and he was kind of

tall, you know? Yeah, but here's the thing. In the interviews, he won't make eye contact with the interviewer. He'll go for long stretches of time, like looking down in a way and not looking up. He also has some kind of weird jerky movements a little bit. So I'm wondering if he like, did he get those after he went to prison and after he killed a bunch of people or was he like that then? And would I even have cared? You know? Right. Yeah. I mean, that's interesting. Did he have it like it was like a tick almost or something?

Yeah. And I'm like, that's creepy. But is it only because I know that's Ted Bundy? Right. He looks like someone my mom would have dated. Yeah. He looks like a guy that would be in like a Lipton tea commercial in the late 70s. Yeah.

With like his pretty young wife. Yeah. They're toasting the tea. They're rolling it up and smoking it in a... They're smoking some tea together and having a good time. But it is, I bet you he was, I think the girls that paid attention were like, got, you know, like at first started talking to him and then kept on paying attention and like got into it, got that weird feeling. And of course, once they got to the car and like, no boat, see you later, I've got to get back to my friends.

But as we've, I'm sorry. No, I think you're gonna say what I was gonna say. As we've said so many times, you couldn't be a fucking bitch back then. And like you were taught to be nice and friendly. And he fucking prayed upon that. And he probably also was really good at like turning on the charm. Oh, a hundred percent. So he didn't have a Twitch and he was, seemed very nice. I bet the Twitch came after he was incarcerated and he was just like, I'm going crazy. I bet that's what happened. I want to kill.

Would you, how badly would you have, would you have wanted to interview him? Hmm. I don't know. I'm not sure about that. Because I like this story of what they do. I don't wanna know that person or be near that person. Cause ultimately they're a little bit of the devil. Yeah, there's that, the Iceman interviews.

Oh yeah. Documentary and that guy just seems normal and likable. He's the guy who was a mobster hit man, but he was also like a family man. And he's just casually talking about doing it. Yeah. And he seemed, he had more charm to me and like likability like, like, like, then Ted Bundy did. I know.

Well, I mean, he, but he's got to be a sociopath or he would have been eaten alive by guilt and remorse and shame and all that stuff. But I don't think he ever killed women and children. So maybe it wasn't like Ted Bundy enjoyed. Yes, he sure did. Like got off on it. This guy was like, it was his job and he probably felt a little self righteous in it of like, well, they owe money or, you know, they wronged someone.

I mean, I support that. No, I don't. That's why mafia hits don't interest me. Yeah. Because it's almost like a business transaction. Like you don't, don't deal with people who will kill you because they'll kill you. They tell you they're going to kill you. You borrow money from them. You don't pay it back. They kill you. That's very... They have a history of killing you. Yeah. They're good with killing. Yet somehow we still date men. Come on, let's not do it.

Let's not be those people. Let's fucking get in there. No, we won't. I'm kidding. I mean, those are some classic conversations. Yeah, we were finding our footing. We were realizing you could talk about fucking anything and it was fine. We were sharing a lot about ourselves, too.

Yeah. AKA filling time. Stretching the podcast for time. I have a story about when I was five. Well, I have a story about when I was five. Well, actually, your story from when you were five about lighting your bed on fire, turned in, yes, to one of Nick Terry's MFM animated sketches that you can see on our YouTube channel. It's youtube.com slash exactly right media.

It's episode 18 of MFM animated and it's a fucking classic. And yeah, that's another way that you can ingest this original story telling. Little did we know when we were telling these stories at the time that they were gonna branch off into a whole other thing. Thank God, because I think we would have been too nervous

and we wouldn't have. I mean. We wouldn't do this. All of that, looking and being like, oh, we were number one on the comedy podcast chart. That was hilarious. That was insane. That was creepy to me where I was like, I think Vince showed it to me and I was like,

oh, that must be your algorithm. Like that's not real. That must be like just from your phone. And he's like, it's not. And it's very- But there was a deep wisdom in that response, which is that's not real. Cause it's like, once you're in, you're in with those fucking charts, man.

It was just like... It was also very hopeful of me that Vince Atal listens to this podcast ever. That it would be number one on his fucking charts. That's hilarious. My wonderful husband. That's so funny that you're little... That's your little fantasy that you're like, oh, that's just you listening all the time to the parts you can barely stomach.

That's just you. No, I don't listen to your podcast, so it's fair. Those are, I think, two great examples of true crime girlfriend wrestling boyfriend, where it's like, never the twain shall meet in terms of hobby, but that doesn't mean anything about relationship. Not at all. And it works. And Vince has come around to a lot of the true crime stuff. There's some shit he still can't handle, but he loves it now. It's pretty great.

Well, because it's just amazing human stories at the end of the day. Speaking of an amazing human story, this is the episode where you tell Latvia to fuck off. I mean, incredible, just incredible strides we're taking. That was for my ancestors, for my grandmother, who was fucking chased out, and her village was set on fire, and she lived for seven years in fields and barns, surviving on potatoes one night, and the skins of the potatoes the next night, with all her siblings.

This is the grandma that lived to be 103? 104, Grandma Thelma. Oh, shit. She fucking did it. She was made of like, she had bones and then she had muscles wrapped around those bones and then she had nails wrapped around those muscles and then she had more muscles on top of the nails. With a sprinkling of childhood trauma.

That's what keeps you going. And I bet a sense of humor has got to have that. Yeah. So sorry, Lavia, but like kind of not sorry. You know what I mean? Well, it is about frenemies really on this episode. It's true. That's kind of our thing.

And then you were reading The Stranger Beside Me again. We just like, do we just do that every six months? So that's our hobby. Yeah, that's our go-to. That's our strunk and white. And actually speaking of wrestling boyfriend, true crime podcast, this story that I do ties both those things in in a really awful, terrible way.

This one made me very sad the night we recorded it. It was like the kind I went home with that one where I was just like, this is just the horrors that people are living through outside of our own doors. And when you think everybody, people have the life. You think you know what makes a great life. Right. Fame, money, you know, whatever.

Family, big house, all the little trappings. Yeah. OK. Let's listen to George's story about the tragic murder suicide case of wrestler Chris Benoit. So the point of this podcast, if you're new, is that the title is My Favorite Murder and Karen and I tell each other our favorite murders. Sometimes there's a theme, sometimes there's not. Today, absolutely no theme.

No, thank you. I think it's your time to go first. Is it? Okay. I think so. This is an interesting one that I'm really excited about. Okay. Okay, so a lot of people have found the podcast through my husband Vince's podcast,

We Watch Wrestling, which is also on Pharaoh. And a lot of ladies on the podcast or men have said, I listened to My Favorite Murder and you listen to We Watch Wrestling. And sometimes I'm on, there's like an overlap and they get excited and it's silly. Are you talking about cute couples that listen to the cute couples, Georgia and Vince's different podcasts? Thank you.

I mean, it's like you're the Prince William and Queen Vicky of what's her name? Queen Vicky. I think it's Queen Vicky. Is it Queen Vicky and Prince William of England? Definitely Queen Vicky. Hey England, let us know if that's right. We just lost so many. We just lost Queen Vicky listening., England, let us know if that's right. We just lost so many listeners. We just lost Queen Vicky listening.

She's like, like that bitch. All right. So there's this murder that he told me about when we started dating that I didn't know about because it's in the wrestling world. And it's the murder, the murder suicide of and by Chris Benoit. Wow. Have you heard of that? His name?

Chris Benoit. How old is it? It happened in 2007. I think I did hear about it, but I know nothing about wrestling at all. Okay. Yeah. And I didn't when I first met him and now I know all this stuff, so it kind of makes sense to me. So I wanted to explain it because it's actually really fucking interesting and crazy. And murder suicides are like, they're really interesting to me because it's like encapsulated in this home usually, the horrors that go on in this little home where people have lived and been

happy and feel safe. And it somehow degrades into this insanity. Yeah. And what's crazy about this one is it was the it was a murder of his wife and his young son And it happened over the whole weekend So he kills his wife friday night Like lives in his house being like what the fuck am I gonna do? So chris benoit was a canadian professional wrestler Um, he had a 22 year career. He held 22 titles

He had a 22 year career, he held 22 titles, and he had the victory of the World Heavy Weight Championship main event match in WrestleMania. What are two X's next to each other? That's 20. Thank you. Or that's almost super dirty. Yeah. Third grade was a hard year for me. Couldn't concentrate?

No. Okay. I was just smoking too many. So many. Teas, cigarettes. Teas, cigarettes. So I didn't even know about this guy, but he was huge. Like the Rock. I don't think he was as big as the Rock, which is a wrestler. Everyone knows, but he was pretty big up there. He was widely respected by viewers and peers and people really liked this guy. He was a little weird and a little quiet and intense. A lot of people said he was intense, but that he was a nice guy. He had a lot of friends. But so it suggests

that depression and brain damage accrued from numerous concussions that was contributed to him committing these awful crimes. The concussion thing is big. Well, we're going to get into that. Okay. Yeah, it really is. And then you just hit play on the movie concussion. And we're just going to sit and listen to the whole thing. Listen to Will Smith do this accent and explain to you why concussions are bad.

Is that a good movie? I've never seen it. Okay. I don't want to watch that. I would watch it if it wasn't Will Smith, because that guy is actually really fascinating. That doctor? Yeah. I watched a documentary with him and he's like,

I bet it's actually a great movie. I just, of all the things I have to do in my day, sitting down to realize how basically they've subsidized damaging people's brains. It'll never stop happening. There's too much money and it's a machine where people care more about making money than human beings. I just get really depressed. There's a period at the end. That's all true.

Oh, so here's the thing. One of his one of his moves was the diving headbutt. Oh, no, it's been at the top of the turnbuckle, you know, when they climb up high, and he would spread his arms out and just like do a fucking fall headbutting the other guy on the canvas either in the back or elsewhere. So using his head basically as a weapon, but like free fall head. Jesus Christ. So he had another signature move, which will come back called the crippler cross face.

And this is a submission hold where he would lock the opponents arms behind him with his legs while pulling back on his neck. It's almost like a hardcore, um, headlock, but like on the face. And sometimes the move would even knock people unconscious. So we'll get back to that. Real unconscious? Yes. Not wrestling unconscious?

Real unconscious. So on June 25th, 2007, the police were called to Benoit's incredible gated security hardcore mansion. And they couldn't get in because of all the gating and stuff, which they could have climbed over, but there were two crazy Doberman Pinschers, sorry, German Shepherds, roaming the front lawn. Like this guy was hardcore security, showing that he had a lot of paranoia, but also was rich and famous. So yeah, but I bet a lot of people don't have like Nazi dogs. Totally. You know, on the property. Yes. And so the home was in Fayetteville, Georgia, but it was like an unincorporated part. So they had to get the next door neighbor, Holly Schreifer, who was a good friend of Nancy Benoit, the wife, and would sometimes take care of the dog. So she

clopped, clopped, clopped on over the fence. She was part horse. She clippity clopped on over the fence. She was part horse. She clippity clop. She did what's a horse maneuver? You know, some dressage. She did a dressage right over the fence. That's a general. And part of making fun of murder.

Horseshoes. No, making light of murder. That's what we... Or just making light of mistakes in our mouths. That's it. Yeah. This ho Holly person sounds like a good person. So she got over, she, and then, then she went into the house, which are like, oh, civilian, don't do that. Wait, so while the cops are waiting outside, she goes over the fence to open all the shit, but she goes into the house. So she sees everything first. Well, she goes over the fence, locks the dogs in the house and like a little spot. Oh, and then it's like, I'm just going to do a once around because she can't get ahold of her friend. Nancy. Holy. Let the cops do

the once around. Once around. You're, she finds the kid, Daniel. So should I? Basically he did that crippler cross face on the kid. This little, I think he was seven. There's reports that he had something called, where did it go? He had a genetic syndrome called fragile X, meaning he was met the criteria for autism. It's inherited. It's like an intellectual disability, but there's conflicting evidence of that, so I don't know if that's true. So what happened was, this is all over the place, isn't it? No, no, no.

You were just nodding your head when I thought. No, I nod on my head so I don't picture Holly walking through the house and what she's seeing, because that's the bummer. So here's how it took place. Friday night. Benoit kills his wife. And he leaves her bound at the ankles and wrists. He covers her in a sheet and he leaves a Bible by her body. That's not going to work. I know. Died of asphyxiation, had bruises on her back and stomach. And he had been physically violent with her in the past.

He had been abusive. So, well, cause also, sorry, but on top of concussions, he's probably taking a bunch of steroids, right? Yeah. So they're both taking a ton of steroids. There's a ton of... The wife too? Yeah. Oh. There's a ton of marital discord. It's on again, off again. They had just, she had filed

for divorce and then didn't go through with it. She leaves all the time. He's possibly having an affair. There's all these text messages between the two of them. I should say the book that I was reading about it is called Chris and Nancy by Irvin Mutchnick. Mutchnick? Mr. Mutchnick? It's really good if you wanna learn more about it and it's detailed.

Was she a wrestler too? Yeah, no, she was like the hype man girl. you know, the hot girls that come into the ring. Hold a big card over their head? That's no, that's boxing, I think. She'd be his sidekick, kind of like the woman and actually she was so interesting and gorgeous that her name at the time was just woman was her like handle. Yeah. That's how gorgeous she was.

That she was reduced to a one-word thing. So she, they got set up by her husband at the time in as like a, you know, to be like, oh, he's cheating with Benoit and then they ended up getting married. So it worked. Oh, so anyways, so it was a story. So it worked. So anyways, so. It was a story. It was a wrestling storyline that came true. Yeah. Okay. So their lives are a bit surreal anyway.

Definitely. Definitely. So she, let's see, there was a pillow leaning against her head. It sounds like what happened was they probably got in a big fight and it escalated and he killed her. The weird part to me is that he tied her up because that shows like premeditation to me. He didn't just like hit her so hard or get angry and strangle her. He tied her up and then killed her. I wonder because steroids, it's like I took speed for a little while in the 90s to lose weight. Sure, we all did. And right?

Fun, fun. And it made me insane. Like just angry from the second I woke up in the morning. And if you're on steroids, which is, they're basically rage pills. So it's two people on steroids. I'm sure that everything was... Intensified times a million. Yeah.

And they're, and they're reacting off each other, but it's not, there's not, it seems to me, I would assume there's not one person going, Hey, let's relax for one second. Yeah. It's just, everybody's going through the room. And he was supposed to leave that weekend for another match. And she just was so pissed that he was leaving all the time. They, they found the amount of pills that they ended up finding in the house is just incredible. They found Soma and hydrocodene, which is fucking heroin, right?

Xanax and all these, you know, Ambien and of course steroids. And he was actually exempt from the rule that you can't take steroids in WWE because he had ruined his body so badly with steroids that he had, couldn't make testosterone on his own anymore. So he had to take steroids to get testosterone. Oh, okay. So even though there's no, no, no steroid rule. He was, he was taking it medically. Yeah. But that's so shady. Right. Like that's the, that's your solution for being fucked

up on steroids is I'm such a bad coke addict that I need to take coke. Right. Yeah. I've ruined my ability to just whatever. Anyways, all of the above. Yes. So between the two killings about 3 30 p.m. on Saturday, it looks like he might have killed Daniel on Saturday, the next day. So he's hanging out in his house with his fucking wife in the office dead, not knowing what to do, calls his coworkers and is like, I can't make it. My wife and kid have food poisoning and they're really sick. Kind of tells everyone that so they won't call. Yeah. they're really sick, kind of tells everyone that so they won't call. So Daniel, the kid

was then suffocated in his own bedroom. A children's Bible was left by his body and he had become kind of a religious fanatic at that point by reading, he was reading passages. In that weekend. Yeah. And you have to tell this, leading up to the murders, He killed his son with the chokehold. No bruises. And yeah, he had needle marks in his arm suggesting he had been given growth hormones. The son or the... The son because he was undersized because of this fragile X syndrome that he supposedly had. But I don't understand that completely. And I'm wondering if he gave him sedatives.

So he could... So he could. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. That would almost be a tiny bit of a relief as hideous as that sounds. I agree. And he think he, and I think in his mind, people have surmised that he was, thought he was doing a mercy killing. Of course. He had killed the mom. Let's just fucking end this. And the same way that I think a

lot of men who do the murder suicide shenanigans to their family are like, I lost all our money. I'm not going to make you live this way. And yeah, right. Just fucking insane. We're good. We want to live as someone. Well, yeah, it's a, it sounds it's twisted as some sort of noble move. It's total narcissism. It's complete narcissism to think that they're an extension of you. And you get to make that call. Right. It's nuts. Right. And also, everybody's in debt.

Yeah. Relax about it. Yeah. It's complete. It's them. It's him. It's the person not wanting them to find out what a fucking, that he wasn't who he said he was.

Right. Well, also this is classic drug brain too. Like it's like. Yeah. Let me get to it. So yeah, so it's okay. So he dies, this is how he kills himself. He dies of asphyxiation.

He was found hanging by the cord of a weight machine. So he goes down to the weight room and he's sitting upright on a bench, on like a weight bench facing the weight machine. So you can imagine like doing pulldowns. What do they call them? I work out a lot. She did like six reps of pulldowns. Right. Okay.

He was shirtless. His leg was extended, his right blah, blah, blah. The black nylon weight machine cable was around his neck. A strip of white towel was underneath to keep the cable from cutting into the skin, which is like you don't deserve that dude Oh, and he was being so What's the yeah? Okay? Yeah, and he was being held in a sitting position by the cable so I think what he does just like let go of the weight and Strangled himself. Yeah, and it appears that he He actually tried to maximize his own pain. Which is so sad.

It sounds like he knew he did something wrong. It doesn't sound like he was like, I'm gonna murder, suicide everyone. It was like, here's a mistake, compounded with a mistake, compounded with a mistake. God, it's terrible. He's trapped in this horror show. Somalias would like to note, I'd like to note that there was a bottle of Dynamite Vineyards 2000 Merlot

next to the body. Why? I think I probably drank it. What sick fuck Somalias need to make that note? You assholes. Me? No, they didn't really ask that. They didn't really request that, Karen.

Who me? This is the episode I turn on you for liking murder. You dick, Georgia. This is disgusting. How dare you? So let's talk about his brain damage. So after the murders and such, there was no pre-existing mental or physical ailments. You did have some depression, obviously.

And where did my other notes go? Oh, they're at the printer. I left my fucking notes at the printer. Let's sing a little song about the printer. There are my printer notes. The printer notes. Luckily, it's just the printer. Printer notes. Printer notes. Da da da da da. Luckily it's just right there. Printer.

That was good. We should walk it off a little bit. Yeah. All right, so they've been searching for answers to the family because it does not add up that this is the same man who- This lovely man. Right, this family man, seven year old son.

Of course down anabolic steroids. They thought that it was roid rage, but it turns out that- My theory's wrong. It wasn't roid rage. I mean, I'm sure there was some added to that. Benoit's brain was that of an 86-year-old Alzheimer's patient. Yeah. In the same way with football players who are constantly getting concussion after concussion. And I mean, there's a story in this book about how in one fight, he and this other guy just banged each other's fucking heads into each other until they bled.

That hurts so bad. When you hit heads with another person. Have you ever done that accidentally? No. Like you both bend down fast at the same time. Stephen knows what I'm talking about. And you smack your head. It is loud and it hurts for like 20 minutes after. And the idea that that's what he basically did for a living.

Have you ever had a concussion? No. And the idea that that's what he basically did for a living. Have you ever had a concussion? No, I did get flipped out of the back of a truck when I was in seventh grade. Remember when we could light fires in our room alone and sit in the back of trucks? Yes. This is the country life that I led. No, this is the 80s. We already put them on notice. Yes, that's true.

And for good fucking reason. Me and my friend, it was my dad was so livid because he told us don't drive that truck too far away. The brakes aren't great. We drove up into the national park uphill, uphill, uphill. And as we're driving, we can smell the brakes in the back. Oh, but it was, it was our next door neighbor, Andy, me, my sister, her friend, Maureen, her friend, Christine, and Andy's friend. So impressed. I can't remember Andy's friend's name before kid who was the one driving the truck. We come to, we start going down a hill through a campsite, brakes go out. He literally is driving a truck with four girls in it with

him and the brakes go out. He hits the back of Andy's car. Andy pulls forward. He tries to go over on the side of the dirt embankment. He instead, he drives up onto the dirt embankment, flips the car. Holy shit. Me and Holly, my best friend Holly Gardner was with me. We go flying out of the back of the truck and mid air, I remember very clearly thinking when I hit the ground, my skirt's going to fly up over onto my back and my underwear will be showing.

So I have to make sure the second I hit the ground, I have to stand up and I literally hit and stood up immediately. Do you think that saved you? Yes, for sure. Well, Holly fell too, but she neither of my mom was a nurse. She woke us up five times that night to check our eyes for concussion eyes. I just imagine a concussion and maybe I've had one and I just don't remember it, but I can, the wobbly brain, like that is just, nothing feels right. And you don't even understand

that you have a concussion, I don't think. How did you get a concussion? Maybe I didn't. Are you totally full of shit right now? No, maybe I've had a concussion and that's why I don't remember anything. I think I was in a car accident when I was a kid and had one. Yeah, hit your head.

Yeah. I don't know. But I was with a girl once who had one because she got clunked in the head with a softball. And she just started crying. We were like hanging out at night and she starts crying and has to go to the hospital. Anyways, it looks terrible. It seems terrible. But can you imagine having dozens over the 10 year span?

Yeah. Yeah. And that just sidebar totally is like points makes me want to point to OJ right now, because that's that thing of like, yes, in the beginning, he was the American hero. But when you have a full career where that happens to you every day practice and in games, you know, 50 times a week or whatever, your brain cannot, you don't remain the person that you started as. It's still an interesting thing recently that hockey players, like in the 70s, they put

in or maybe even like the 80s or 90s, like at some point they were like helmets have to be used. Yes. But if you've been playing before that, it was your choice if you wanted to help wear a helmet. So everyone from that on had to wear a helmet if you got hired. But you might have been just too far gone where it's like, fuck it. You don't have to. If you own, if you like, if you've owned a motorcycle before 19, you know, you don't have to wear a helmet. It's like that was a lot.

I really love hockey players so much because hockey is so graceful and beautiful and yet insanely violent and male, which I think is very sexy. Oh, but I don't like fights. They scare me. What? Georgia. Really? It's the stuff of life.

I hate fights. Two guys punching each other. Oh, I hate it. It makes me so, especially I think it's hilarious. In ice skating. What is ice skating? Ice fight. Yes, that's what this is. What is ice fighting?

Ice fighting at the same amount. No, but in Michelle Kwan just punching somebody in the face. There's something about in hockey that, because they're so bulked up and have so much padding on that the punches and the whole fight is slow mo. Yes. And so you can see their face and I'm like, is he going to cry? I just, it stresses me. I don't like it.

I bet they'd never cry. I bet they don't. You know when you're really angry and you're like trying not to cry. Yes. I always wonder if they're feeling that. It is just funny that that is a sport where fighting is completely allowed, accepted, and the refs pretend they're going to do something and they just let them fight it out.

Totally. It's very violent. Yeah. So, and one would think with wrestling, it being like almost like an acrobatic feat. It's not like, it's not, you're not really hurting the person. Right. That you wouldn't get hurt then. But I mean, there's so many accidents that happen

and so many bad wrestlers that don't know how to interact with other wrestlers when they're fighting. They also do that stuff. I remember seeing that documentary. I just saw part of it about mankind. Oh, he's amazing. When he fell through the fucking chain link fence. But there was a part where he just gets clocked in the head with a folding chair. Yeah. And it's a real folding chair. It's not, they don't use like, they don't mock any pick up a real metal fucking high school auditorium folding chair and hit

each other in the head with them. They don't do that anymore. There's you're not allowed to hit in the head anymore. Because the mankind rule? I think cause of the Crispin Wah rule. Really? Yeah. Because they realized how bad it is. Yeah. I think he did a lot to make that not allowed anymore. So yeah.

So let's see. Wait. So repeat concussions can lead to dementia which can contribute to severe behavioral problems, blah, blah, blah. Wait, there's one other part of, yeah. Sorry, it took us down to me flying out of the truck. And we've talked about it also,

85 year old Alzheimer's patient. Lifetime chronic concussions, head trauma. I like- She kinda didn't even know what he was doing, maybe. I think it's just such a severe personality change. Like, you know, you and I, when we're 85, are going to act in similar ways that we do now. We're not going to kill people. We're not going to like...

You promise? I'll try my best to live to be 85. Yeah, let's get that done first. And then at that point, we might just start killing people because no one would suspect us. I mean, you might as well. Right? Yeah. So yeah, but the, but he just was a different, a different person with different emotions and different moods than the person he was raised to be and was for years and years probably. So sad.

It's so sad. So, Chris Benoit, that's my favorite murder this week. That's a good one. Thank you. Did Vince actually make an appearance on this episode? No, I don't think he's in this one, but you know, he would come home from work while we were recording a lot because we recorded in our apartment. I think that's what made me think of it is like as he's coming home from work, he pulls out the thing, his blue card of what he needs to say as he walks through the living room and then goes somewhere else.

He's the one who told me about this story too. I had no idea. Yeah, we started dating. He's like, here's something I can be interesting to her about. And it was true. But there's no case updates on the story kind of, you know, all settled itself. But I do think a good thing is that people are looking a lot more into traumatic brain injury and how much it changes a person. And then hopefully taking steps to, you know, not have that happen anymore.

For example, Chris Benoit's one of his signature moves was the diving headbutt, which is like, I don't, I really hope and don't think that that would ever happen. In fact, now on WWE, you can't, there's no, almost no blood or there's not supposed to be blood anymore, which I think is, you know, step in the right direction. Nicole Soule Yeah, sometimes the whole headbutt thing is like just cracking skulls against each other. So it's like, because that used to be in the 80s and maybe it was that time of boys in my high school. There was a whole trend of headbutting, like seniors headbutting freshmen.

Yes. What? It was horrifying. Yeah. And they would just walk up and smash their head into like a little kid that would then they'd have to not cry in front of everybody. It was like, it was so horrible, but also as year after year passes and people are talking about concussions, CTE, all these things, damaging your head like that.

No, it's so scary and awful and like... Yeah. All right, well, here's some more awful. And I wonder if in the beginning of our podcast, it got big quickly because all our stories were really, really awful in the beginning, because we were like, all the stories that have stuck with us, we told them. And so every single episode had just like two horrific stories.

Well, and also, you know, they all are in every imaginable way, but I do think what we were doing was saying, this one stuck with me, this one stuck with me. And everyone has that because if you follow true crime, there's a reason you got into it and there's a reason you stayed in it. And it was that kind of thing of like, well, this has to be the worst thing I've ever heard. Oh no, now there's this.

And I think for you and I, and then maybe everyone else, it was a little cathartic to finally get it out of that circling, circling, circling part in our brains that couldn't stop thinking about it and sharing it. Absolutely. And then it's like, I want you to have some of this horror too. And you're like, I got you. Well, I got you. And that one is also swirling in my brain so we can all kind of relax for a second or

just keep on loading them up, whatever works. It was a different time, 2016, it was the luxury. Yeah, but it was also like proof to the people who were like, what's wrong with you? Calm down being like, do you hear all these stories? Nothing's wrong with me. It's all fucking real. It's not I'm not being paranoid. It's not you know, Freddy Krueger is real.

There's all of these things are like trackable and worse in real life than they are in the movies about about horror monsters or whatever. Ugh. So speaking of, let's get into Karen's story from episode 17. This is the murder of Jennifer Moore. BROKE! What's your favorite murder, Karen?

Georgia, my favorite murder, um... Uh, is... I got the idea from my friend, Carol Kraft, who listens. Hi. She and my sister have worked together, did work together for years. She was the school secretary. She's one of the funniest people on the planet. Carol Kraft is the greatest. And she, my sister, when she told my sister, she's listening to the podcast, my sister said,

what's your hometown murder? And Carol immediately said, that's Jennifer Moore. And then I remembered and Laura remembered. And the reason I so I started looking it up, because I was like, Oh, is that that thing? And the memory, Oh, is that that thing? And the memory, the kind of like central memory I have around it is my mother. Okay. So my hometown is Petaluma, which is the first city in Sonoma County. And Nevada was the last city in Marin County and they, they are right against each other. So like my high school, a bunch of people who lived in Nevada drove up to Petaluma to go to my high school. There wasn't a Catholic high school in Nevada. Catholic high school? Nevada. You had a Catholic high school? Yeah.

Wow. A really small one. So I had a ton of friends that lived in Nevada. They're kind of like those two cities. You're going back and forth a lot up there. And Nevada is kind of like a bedroom community for people who work in San Francisco, commuters and stuff. Right.

Because it's really nice and close to the city, but still outside enough so that you are in a nice kind of country suburb. Yeah. And it's basically tons of tract homes and beautiful little like shopping areas and oak trees and rolling fields and stuff. It's a really lovely little city. Sounds really charming. It is charming.

So my mom used to work at the Kaiser in San Rafael, which is the next big city down below in Nevada. And so when the 101 got backed up, which it always did because it narrowed between Nevada and Petaluma, so all of the traffic would just get all condensed. What everyone would do was get off the freeway and take the back roads. And so you go down to Nevada Boulevard and Nevada Boulevard takes you out to like Stony Point Road, which is where the, um, the cheese factory is. And like, that's where you take relatives that are visiting. And it's basically a cheese factory that's way out in the country next to a lake.

I used to have to drive by this whole area when I went to court reporting school in like not San Jose, but like, court reporting school. Yeah. You never told me it's a court reporting school in like, not San Jose, but like. Court reporting school? Yeah. You never told me you went to court reporting school. Well, I never finished. But excuse me, that's episode one information. God damn it.

Yeah, I worked at a, I went to court reporting school and never finished. You could do that machine? Mm-hmm. Georgia. Because I worked at a court reporting office and these women made like so much money and it was fascinating. You just sit in depositions, which is like, I would just sit there and read depositions all day. That's amazing.

Probably illegal. So I decided to go to core reporting school. But it's, I'm jealous. I'm angry. I have all these feelings running through me right now. Sorry. That's okay. Go ahead.

No, I'll talk later. So my mom was driving home on the, we call it the back road. So basically it's like you're cutting around through the country to get up to Petaluma out of Novato. And on the way out of Novato, there's Indian Valley golf course, there's Stafford Lake, and then,, and then on. So it gets very country, very quickly, right outside the city. That's cool. So my mom was driving home one night and it was dusk and she saw cops on the side of the road and she saw them pulling garbage bags out of a ditch. And when she got home, she

saw on the news and I'm almost positive we were there with her because I can remember but I do this all the time where I can write memories very easily. I feel like I remember my mom having a freak out because she saw on the news they had finally discovered the body of the little girl who had gone missing four days earlier and that was this girl Jennifer Moore. So my mom actually saw them find the body, which is when my sister reminded me of it in this text, I was like, this is epic. I'm, I couldn't be more proud where that your brain can just lose these moments. Like we talk about this every week murder and I never thought about it. Yeah. It's just kind of

not it's so filed so far back. So essentially this is what happened. Jennifer Moore was 13 years old. And on Thursday, April 13th, 1989, she called her mom at work crying because she had gotten three C's on her report card. So her mom said, go walk down and buy some ice cream. And so, and this is another thing where I didn't, I didn't look into it, but it pretty much sounded like she was being raised by a single mother and she was latch keying just like we all did. So she goes to walk down to the Baskin Robbins on Nevada Boulevard, which as I was reading

this is like, I knew exactly where all of this was as I was reading it. And so when the mom comes home from work that night, Jennifer's not there. And she knows from the last time she talked to her, when she told her to go get ice cream, it was way, way, way too long for her not to be there. She knew she wasn't a runway. I read in this article, interestingly enough, the age 12 to 14 are prime runaway years. And so anytime someone is that age and they call to report the missing, the cops have the habit of assuming this is what it is because that's usually the, or it's commonly the case. But of course the mother assured them this is very wrong. She didn't run away.

All of her stuff is in a room. Her purse is in a room. Like all she did was take the money for the ice cream. I was a runaway. Did you ever run away? No, but I think I, when I was like five, cause I was going to show my mom and I basically took a suitcase out to the road and then came back inside immediately.

Yeah. Packed a suitcase, put it under the bed. I did stay out during my, when I was like 13, my drug years, stay out all like overnight and they straight up called the cops. And yeah, I was, I was a runaway. Well, they should have though. Yeah. That's good though. I know. I feel so bad about that. Yeah. You didn't know you were on drugs. Yeah. Um, so the cops check her school records. They see that she's had perfect attendance and that she's, you know, that's not the person that we're talking about. So, um, so they,

they start looking into it two days pass and they start handing out the, have you seen me flyers, which of course, again, seems a little late for me. I don't like it. But, um, uh, I think that this is 1989. So back then they were like, we just want to see probably is the idea. So on day three, a person driving down Nevado Boulevard sees garbage bags in a ditch on the side of the road and goes and looks in them and finds Jennifer's nude body. Oh, that poor person who found them. Do you think he knew what was going on? Like what was looking for? Well, he there's a very good chance he saw on the news because this was all over the news. This little girl's face.

Have you seen me? This girl's missing. So it did hit the news like the next night. OK. So maybe that flyer thing was just the cops like on the street doing it. Because I remember that. Well, I shouldn't say that because I don't know the exact chronology. But you remember like the the big like, is it the small enough town where it's like, this is what everyone's talking about? 100 percent. Because this doesn't happen. 100 percent. This is this this is a town

just like Petaluma, where people did not lock their doors. Right. And when you see this picture, it's such a 1989 picture. She's got braces, she's got these bangs, she's got the big hoop earrings. She's so cute. And she just looks like a girl from your junior high. Those kill me. These sweet kids. Yeah.

I always, when I see them, I always say, I'm so sorry. I know. I know. So yeah, this poor motorist. That is my theory, I should say. I think that that person saw that a girl was missing on the news. And then when they saw the garbage bags pulled over and checked, and then their worst nightmare was confirmed. So everyone's in the in between time, of course, no one let their children leave the house. There were no latchkey kids once it was announced that she was missing.

So the cops look at the plastic bags and inside, I should say plastic bag, I think it's just the one big garbage bag. At the bottom, there were a Sunday school-like leaflets. And one of the policemen recognized it as, oh, my kids use those at their Sunday school. So this is like probably a local church Sunday school leaflet. So they decide to start checking all the churches nearby. And they map out from her house to the ice cream parlor, what churches are in between.

And so they go to Bethel Baptist Church on Nevada Boulevard. And they notice when the cops show up there, they notice there's four big garbage cans outside. Two of them have garbage liners, garbage bags inside of them and two don't. So they go over and check. It's the same type of garbage. So this probably had happened in the last day. Yes. Yeah. They immediately are like, okay, this is, you know, like this can't be a coincidence or like would be a very, the probability of that being a coincidence.

I love when puzzle pieces fit together. Yeah. And that they're, you know, this might be a little makeup work, but I, everything I read in this, it was like the cops were like eagle eyed. And I think that is that thing of a tiny town where it's everybody's daughter. Totally. So, so they see that they match, they see that it's a match of the same type of garbage bag. And they go and immediately get bloodhounds. And they have them sent on Jennifer's clothing. And then the bloodhounds take them directly back to Jennifer's house. So they know that this is where she ended up. This is the church. So she basically took a shortcut from her house through a creek area that was in the back of the church and then up through

the church. So they go into the church to look for evidence and they talked to the pastor there who shows them something weird that he had noticed. There was a coffee cup that had been spilled in the library, but no one had picked the coffee cup back up off the floor. So it was just this coffee stain. And it was weird to him because beverages were not allowed in the church library. So, you know, it's weird enough that someone made that spill, but then they didn't even clean up half of it. Basically. Um, so the crime lab comes, pulls up the carpet, tests it.

There's blood and bleach. So in the same spot. Yeah. So he spilled the coffee over it. So he had it. Yes. To be there. There was a big blood stain, but so he was like, Nope, it's a coffee stain.

Here's a coffee cup. Oh, you know, don't worry about this coffee stain. Oh my goodness. So they get onto that immediately. And then when tech to search the rest of the church, they find a brown bomber jacket at the bottom of their clothing donation bin. And it was the jacket that Jennifer wore when she left the house to go get ice cream. So now they know and they check the pockets, she had the rubber bands for her braces were in the pocket. So they know it was hers. So now they know this is the, we've got a location. So the pastor remembers that he'd gotten to work early Friday morning.

She had disappeared Thursday. And when he got there, the door was not only unlocked, it was a jar. So basically there were three people on Thursday night that were at the church that could have been involved. One was the janitor. One was the youth pastor and one was the teenager that was helping the youth pastor with gardening. Can I guess? Yes. The youth.

Hell yeah, it's the youth pastor. Oh, wait, no, I was guessing the kid. Oh, shit. Damn it. Um, you know, it's really funny that you just said that. And maybe this is the way it's going. The, I read a bunch of articles about this, but it's such a small town and it was so long ago. I could only get these little short ones from the LA times and then, and of course Wikipedia. But then I found the transcript for a TV show called eye detective. Have you ever seen that show? So it's, I don't think it's on anymore.

It was on, it was on like court TV. It's that old. Yeah. But basically they would lay out a true crime story and then they would, they would tell you the evidence that the cops found and then go, is it A, the youth? B, remember that? And you would make a guess. Then they would tell you what the right answer is and why.

So you were kind of basically learning how cops do their procedural shit as you watch. That sounds fucking awesome. So I stumbled upon a transcript for the episode about the Jennifer Moore murder. Holy shit. So you just, you just intuited something. I think you should be very proud of yourself.

But at the same time, I thought that the youth pastor and the janitor were too obvious. I just cheered because it was the youth pastor. There's always going to be victims in this show. So it turns out that the kid that was helping the youth pastor, Garden, had a record and was a bad kid, but his grandma had come and picked him up at 630 that night. And so he had an alibi. And then the janitor wasn't at home when they went to go question him. So he was really high up on the list. And then they go visit the youth pastor and he's a 29 year old ex-marine named Scott Williams. He owns a gas station nearby.

He's a Sunday school teacher, whatever. He works at the church all the time. So he's well liked by the community, all the stuff we always hear. So they go talk to him and he admits that he was the last person to leave on Thursday night. Andy can't account for his whereabouts that night. He's kind of saying there was a meeting at the gas station. Oh, but I did miss it because I was doing the gardening or whatever. And he's real evasive. So they're like, I mean, like this guy and then he's not. Yeah, exactly. And then he suggests that he take a polygraph. So they're, they're like, you know, like this guy and then he's not, yeah, exactly.

And then he suggests that he take a polygraph. So they're like, Oh, well, that's a good way to dissuade anybody. You're, you're insisting you're innocent. Uh, well, he fails the polygraph test. And at the end of it, the polygraph examiner, who I believe was from the FBI, because they brought the FBI in really early. So smart. It's so smart. I wish more. I wish more of that would have happened in a lot of cases.

I know. Just get the big boys in. It's not an insult. So at the end of the polygraph, the examiner says, you killed Jennifer Moore and he cracks and cops to the whole thing. Holy shit. Which I think is so brilliant because usually in movies and stuff,

the polygraph examiner is just all dry and like, did you, did you not? And making little checks and doesn't care. He was like looking at this evidence. Here's the conclusion. And basically played a poker game of like, wow, you did it. And then he was just like, you're right, I did it. I just think that's so interesting.

Has he ever killed anyone or hurt any hair record? No. No priors. No priors. No priors. That's so interesting to me because I feel like the people who crack and break down are almost... The people who insist and just fucking lie about it are more sociopathic to me than the people who feel the remorse.

And so they break down and cry because they can't even fucking deal with it themselves, right? And usually I would say I would I would wager that those people are the ones that still one-off I'm a passion or the moment or the you know, whatever it is opportunity exactly and that's what this was because He shows them the rope burn on his hand Where he he strangled her with a piece of rope. So he's just like, he said, the quote is, I murdered her, I raped her, I strangled her and I bludgeoned her. So then they know they have him.

It's not just like coincidental or that he's been manipulated. He is very specific and basically totally barfed it out. What a piece of shit. So then the cops go to his house and they start talking to his wife, who of coursefed it out. What a piece of shit. So then the cops go to his house and they start talking to his wife, who of course is freaking out. The wife. The wife always.

Oh, honey. And then she tells the cops that they had recently gotten into a fight because of the huge bills he was racking up on those nine, seven, six numbers from the 80s. Do you remember? Is that like sex talk numbers? Sex talk numbers that were, now they 80s. Do you remember? Is that like sex talk numbers?

Sex talk numbers that were now they're illegal. Are they illegal? They're like there's all kinds of FCC regulations. So they're not like it used to be there's nine seven six commercials. I remember. Second, it was past 10 o'clock at night. That's all TV was. Yeah. And when they look into it, he had huge bills and his were for a child porn. There's a phone sex. How was there? Oh, I mean, he found, I don't know. I did. That's all the line says. Seems like a fucking FBI setup right there. I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't think this needs to be said, but I bet they weren't real children. Sorry. I agree. But I do want to clarify. These would be actresses.

Yeah. Phone actress. Anyway, so basically he tells the story. He's working outside of the church and Jennifer is cutting through from the creek through the parking lot. And he sees her and he gets this idea in his head and so that he's going to like seduce her. So he says, Hey, do you want a Coke? Come in. It's hot outside or whatever and lures her into the library, makes a move on her. She freaks out, tries to run. He grabs her, rapes her. And as he said, strangles her and hits her in the head. All in the church library. Oh, honey. Church. Let's just remember these things. That this is when people have any kind of

religious thing that they're just, sometimes let's be suspicious of that even on the outset. Yeah. That a lot of people use religion to hide behind. Yeah. Humans are humans. And just because you're of a specific group of humans doesn't mean that you're exempt from being a terrible person. Exactly. Anyone can go to that place on Sunday and sit there in silence and act. Anyone can. Yeah. And believe that they're right and they're a good person. It's not like you even are like, I'm hiding this secret. I'm a bad person. You're just like, I am exempted from this

because God and the Bible. So he got first degree murder, got a life sentence, no possibility of parole. Thank God. Every ounce of this research, I was like, yay cops, yay judge. It rarely happens. We can celebrate it. And that's it. That's the Jennifer Moore murder of Nevada. Okay. That is exhausting and sad and horrible. Is Latchki Kid still a thing? I don't think so. Well, I was talking to my sister and I told her this is the story that I'm doing. And she goes, yeah, and that's why we never let kids go anywhere ever by themselves ever right like my our friend

Adrian has a daughter who's 18 and she was going to the dentist to get but she was gonna be sedated Oh my goodness, and Adrian called my sister and goes can you go with her? Yeah? I've heard that about dentist office though like there there was, you know, one who would insist that the kid came alone back there and the mom was like, well go fuck yourself and wouldn't take the kid to the dentist. Yeah. Because again, doctors, priests, whatever it is, we don't know. We don't know. It doesn't mean automatically that that's a good moral upstanding person. Well, I'm trying to think if I had like a 12 year old son or daughter, would I be comfortable

with them going home from school after school and being alone? And like, yeah, kind of. Would you? Be comfortable with them? Yeah. Not these days. Yeah. I mean, not with...

I'm surprised I'm saying that and being so naive, which I don't know if it is, but 12 is pretty... I guess once I see a 12 year old, they I don't know if it is, but 12 is pretty, I guess once I see a 12 year old, they'd be like, Oh no, nevermind. I mean, it's weird because we did it from when we were like eight. Oh, totally. I think it's just that cultural thing. We're like, when everyone does it, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah.

And also when you have siblings, it's better because you have other people around. When it's an only child, it's a little... Yeah. If you have people to escape the it's an only child. It's a little. Yeah. If you have people to escape the house with, murder comes in the front door. Or just someone you guys have to be responsible for each other. So you're just a little more careful. And a little more bitter. Like my sister was all of our lives.

Absolutely. She had to constantly take me to the bathroom. So angry for 20 years. My sister always had to pick my napkin up off the floor when I threw it on the ground when I was in a high chair. Fuck it. She hates me to this day. Like you were making her dance like a monkey for you. Uh huh. Get my napkin. Lee, go pick that up. Hates me. Thanks mom and dad. It's the thing. It sucks to be the older sister. That's for sure. That's true. Being the baby is the best. Yeah. Well, that was... Yeah. Well, that was, yeah. Um, well, that's what we do. If you don't like it, we understand.

Yeah. Um, yeah. My favorite murder shirts.com. We're like, give us money now that we've ruined your day. Now that you'll have nightmares. I think the psychology of that actually holds up though. Thank you for ruining my day. Yeah. At least we're doing something. You know what I mean? At least it's something. It makes me feel alive.

I feel like there's little bits and pieces of this podcast that make, that'll either make people safer, more aware, less naive. Grateful. Yeah. And maybe somewhere like grateful. Yeah. Maybe somewhere change something for the good. Maybe someone will be on a jury someday and be like, oh, you can't let this guy totally did it. And he did do it. Maybe we'll win a Peabody award. That was the next thing I was going to say. Maybe we'll be crowned Queen Victoria, Queen Vicky. I mean, you know, it's, it's a, yeah.

Finally I'm Queen Vicky because of a podcast. When do we get to be Queen Vicky? For once in a while. It's always those British people that get to be the queen. Why can't I? No, we are. We're queen of second murder podcast. Okay. So we're back. Any case updates? No case updates on this one. Scott Williams is still in prison. He's 64. I guess my only case update is that Carol Kraft, who is my sister's friend who recommended this story to me, is a long time, maybe even day one listener of My Favorite Murder and every other podcast that we have on this network. And she calls my sister and tells her things she likes every week and like says stuff and

she is the ultimate like stage mother but also just as like a celebrator and I love you, Carol Craft, if you hear this, you're the greatest. You are. And we all think so. Can I have a personal Carol Craft corner in my life where she just can tell me those things

and like hypes me up a little? Just need to hear what she's saying sometimes. And she does it like this where she has this huge smile on her face. She's delighted and she's kind of like, I loved that one. And it's the best feeling. Yeah. That's so lovely.

Yeah, I'll try to pass it on next time. Now that we have context. All right. So let's end this by talking about titles for episode 17 that we would now name the episode based on what we name them after now, which is silly little things we say during the episode. I mean, I do, and I kind of say this at almost every time with these old puns, but I think this one is especially good.

I think, like, it just is very satisfying to the eye when you see it as the title. But podcasting isn't a visual entertainment. Not until we got in the game, baby. We're changing it all up. That's right. And it's not a visual game and it's also not a steal other people's titles game. But hey, we do it the way we want. Sure do.

So let's see. So Georgia was describing the podcast in the intro and she actually used the phrase, the ride of your life. So that would be a really good title. That would be. Karen, talking about when we're talking about depression meals and being home alone as a kid and making your own meals, the episode could be called Loaf of Toast, which is so accurate. So delicious. Also my story, basically renaming the episode The Bed's on Fire

because of the story of me lighting the bed on fire. Classic. Oh, and then Toasting the Tea is us talking about how Ted Bundy looked like a guy in a lifted tea commercial. And I also tried to smoke tea leaves. I fashioned a tea leaf cigarette with paper towels as a kid. What a smooth smoke. It was beautiful. 12 year olds around the side of the pool house.

Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind. Guys, we do these every Wednesday. Come back for the next bunch. We're just like kind of going through our philo facts of early episodes. Do it with us. It's going to get crazier and crazier too.

Like the bigger we realize things are getting, I feel like the, it's just this energy. The energy. And also, yeah, the energy, they're going to be, I feel like, less cringe. We're going to get better at it. There's going to be more communication. It'll be great. Until then, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?