My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show. Georgia discussed serial killer Cary Stayner and the Yosemite murders and Karen covered con man and murderer Clark Rockefeller (aka Christian Gerhartsreiter aka Chris Crowe aka Chris Chichester). Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!   Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder   Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/rewind-with-karen-georgia-episode-30-the-fck-word-murder-mystery-show My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. Paradise is an all-new series set in a serene community inhabited by some of the world's most prominent individuals. But this tranquility explodes when a shocking murder occurs and a high-stakes investigation unfolds, starring Sterling K. Brown, James Marston, and Julianne Nicholson. Paradise is now streaming only on Disney+. Clear your schedule for U-time with a handcrafted espresso beverage from Starbucks. Savor the new small and mighty Cortado, cozy up with the familiar flavors of pistachio, or shake up your mood with an iced brown sugar oat shaken espresso.

Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. You see every Wednesday we release one of our old shows, but there's a twist. We had all new commentary updates, insights, everything, the lives we've led, the people we are, the people we've become, the whole story, we give it to you. Today we're recapping episode 30, which for the first time in 29 episodes isn't named after the number pun. Thank you, Jesus.

Phew, thank God. Called one of the greats, it's called the Fuck Word Murder Mystery Show. Find out why by listening to this. See, stay tuned, and you can find out why. We named it that. And join us today as we take you back to August 18, 2016. God, the summer of 2016.

And now we can all be day one listeners together. So let's listen to the intro of episode 30. to the intro of episode 30. Are you ready? Yeah. I'm ready. Let's be really low energy this time. Let's be as quiet as we can. Yes.

And- Fuck, I screwed it up already. Yes! Yes! You wanna be quiet? Yes! Yes! That's all I ever wanted!

Oh, God. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murderer! That's all I've ever wanted! Oh God. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murderer. That's George, a hard start. That's Karen Kilgarafe. The quietest, we're the quietest girls. We're so quiet. On podcasts. Thanks for being here.

It's like spending an hour with us. Thanks. Thinking about things with us. Guys, there's so much going on in our world. Not the least of which is, how Georgia doesn't like stranger things. What? There's someone at the door.

They're here to hang you from the highest limb of a tree. I don't not like it. I have issues with it. Okay, let's hear them. Well, it reminds me, remember the old Stephen King movies that would be made of Stephen King books that would be on, that were made for TV, like, Dinner?

Yes. And how ridiculous they were. And if you guys say, what about True or Pet Sematary, go back and watch it again. It's the corniest movie. But that was a feature film. Right. And there was some scary shit in that. Yes, I love that movie, but if you go back and watch it again. It's the corniest movie. But that was a feature film. Right. And there was some scary shit in there.

Yes, I love that movie, but if you go back, you're like, oh, this is so corny. It doesn't hold up. No. And it reminds me kind of of that, of Stephen King made for TV movies, and maybe it's the kind of supposed to. But I also just, it reminded me of someone

who doesn't read sci-fi made a show about sci-fi. Yes. And I feel like it's the kind of movie where if someone who had read the book were watching it, which I know there's not a book, but if you were, you'd be like, why the fuck did they leave this thing out? This was the most important part.

I feel like I would have been screaming that if I had read the book. Well, you know, I've found, I think because I like seeing, I'm at that stage where that kind of nostalgia works on me because it's from when I was 10. Yeah. I love the look and feel,

but that other stuff took me out of it. Well, and it's really hard to connect. This is kind of like the Stephen King problem and like lost a lot of those things. When you get your big good idea that's gonna freak people out and hook people in, and then you try to connect that with kind of believable science or something grounded,

it's very difficult to do. So it's like the upside down, right? Is what it was called. But the fact that you just kind of entered it through this weird, I mean, spoilers. And you could go get your, like it just, yeah, there was a lot of, wait, what? In it for me.

If you can walk into it, then why does she have to go into the thing to get it? Right, and like, well, what is it? What is it made out of? Why did this happen? Why did this person exist? Yeah Why did they how did she get out of the yeah? Yeah, it's this is another episode of Georgia Can't suspend her disbelief. Uh, you know and it's a valid

Angle I do however like the night of I've gone through three episodes in Okay. Well when you get to the episode that aired last night. Oh my God. First of all, I keep falling asleep in front of the TV after watching Night Of and then dreaming about Riz Ahmed all night, which makes me crazy. They were showing photos of him as a kid,

like as part of this show, but they were real photos of him as a kid and I was like, I want that DNA inside of me like I want that baby. That sounded gross. That's the biggest kind of crush you can have when you want their DNA. Because who wants your DNA inside me? That's like a serial killer Valentine. That's Phil. That's disgusting. That's a serial killer Valentine. No, that's how I feel about him. I steal that idea from you.

I don't want to sleep with him. I have a idea from you. I don't wanna sleep with him. I have a husband that I love who doesn't want kids, so I'll just have one from him with big eyes and beautiful. You mean after he and I marry and have many of our own? Can we get into a thing here? I guess we could. Like kind of a fun. It'd be good for the podcast.

Yeah. It's a very long, long show. I love it though. Episodic, okay, two things. It's like a play. It is like a play. I would watch a whole show of just John Turturro and about his eczema.

Didn't know there were eczema support groups. That's fascinating. Those poor people. They can't date. I didn't know e Exima was that awful. Yeah. That's amazing. And then last night, yesterday when I watched it,

Janet Colgate is now a character from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. What? You know, the female lawyer? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. I got so happy when I saw her. Named her name, Janet Colgate. I said, when she came on screen, I said it in like,

in a, the accent that was said in, and I think Vince was like, who did I, what did I marry? Wait, what's that actress's name? You think, I can remember her character from a cheesy movie from the eighties, but I can't remember her real name. Her name is. You get this.

You always get this. I know, but it's hot. Elizabeth. Nope. It's. Stacey Nancy. Stacey hot. Elizabeth. Nope. It's... Stacey... Nancy. Stacey Nancy.

Stacey Nancy. It's my favorite actress, Stacey Nancy, from such plays as... Nancy St. Stacey. ...Hot Fire and Nancy St. Stacey. That's the best stage name of all time. Taking it. Stealing it. My favorite murder with Heron Gilgara.

And Nancy St. Stacey. Oh my God, that's good. I'm taking it. Stealing it. My favorite murder with Heron Gilgerof. And Nancy St. Stacey. Oh my God, that's good. So sweaty. Are you looking it up, Stephen? What is it, Stephen? Is the letter P in her first or last name? Penelope. Not at all.

God damn it. Then just say her name. It's Glen Headley. Glen Headley. You said that as if it was on the tip of your tongue. It was nowhere near my name. Glen Headley? Glenn Headley, she's such a great actress.

She is, but oh, her name. Stephen Ray Morris, thank you for that. Anytime. That's like one of those white waspy names I would have never gotten, because in my world, girls can't be named Glenn. I've definitely never heard that before. Yeah, that's a family name, I'm sure.

I'm sure it is. That's on a crest somewhere. But, so two thumbs up for the night of. Yeah, that's a family name, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. That's on a crest somewhere. So two thumbs up for The Night Of. Yeah, watch it. We're not talking about this. We're not talking about Stranger Things anymore. Yeah, I gone off. I did you like the ending that they left it open, obviously, for a second season?

I'm going to admit I fell asleep at some point in the later episodes and I can't remember how it ended. They ended it in a way that was, there's just like no satisfying ending. Can I tell you? Cause do you think there's gonna be a season two? Well, Nancy and Steve are still together. What? Yeah.

But she didn't love him. Does she? She doesn't. Does she love fake Ben Schwartz? That's all I could see when I saw him. Did you see that? That's exactly what he looks like. He looks so much, he's like Wasp Ben Schwartz.

Yeah, he looks like if Ben Schwartz got put through a rock and roll machine. Everyone look at Ben Schwartz, I promise. Nothing wrong with him, but I just couldn't see that character. But sorry, she goes back to him? I feel like I should have spoiled alert at that. Yeah, that's a big spoiler alert.

Excuse me. I feel like I just burped really loudly and without warning anyone or saying excuse me before or after. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Can I say, can I read you my favorite tweet

that we've gotten on the My Favorite Murder Twitter account? Always, this is Tweet Corner with Karen. Tweet Corner, welcome. Mew, mew, mew, mew. Why did you just mew? That's the theme song. Okay. Mimi, the unsung cat of the Hearth's Dark Household, she sings the theme song to Tweet Corner.

Mew, mew, mew, mew. Mimi's gotta have her spot in the. Yeah, this is it, she's come to shine. Ready, Mimi? Meow, meow, meow, meow. She's totally asleep. Someone on Twitter named TrashPandaIRL. I love it already.

That's not a real person. Read what her name is. Oh, tweensensation. Tween sensation is her handle. TrashPandaIRL is her, I don Oh, tweensensation. Tweensensation is her handle. Trashpanda IRL is her, I don't know, account name. I don't know. Trashpanda. And on her Twitter account, sorry,

but I just noticed this, her header picture is a picture of Barb and it says, in memory of Barb, see you on the other side. That's incredible. And it's an illustration of Barb from Stranger Things. That's the best. Hell yeah, trash panda. Way to bring it all around. So she tweeted at us and said,

My dad keeps calling your show the fuck word murder mystery show because he can't remember the name. And I cannot stop laughing at that. Say it again. My dad keeps calling your show the fuck word mystery murder mystery show because he can't remember the name.

Ah. That is so, first of all. I can't. If my dad heard a podcast where girls were saying the F word, he would pull the stereo out of the car and throw it on the highway. No. I swear, if my dad ever hears this,

he's going to call me with such a stern tone. And so I love the fact that Trash Panda IRL's dad is even listening to it at all. I love him. I love him. He sounds like my dad. And I think we might need to change the name of this podcast to the Suck Word Murder Mystery Show.

I try not to do this, but someone who makes the memes needs to get our logo and change it into, say it one more time, because it makes me so happy, the Fuckward. The Fuckward Murder Mystery Show. It's just beautiful. Could I read you something that's probably gonna make you wanna cry? Yes.

Liz C on the Facebook page says, I'm 19 years old and fighting cancer at the moment. Oh no. Ready to cry? Yep. My dad and I listened to the podcast on the way to the hospital and back. It's a great way to keep my mind off things, except now I'm scared to get murders. LMAO.

I can't wait for the new shirts to come out. I'm definitely going to be wearing it to the hospital. Love all you murderinos. And then there's 200 comments, including mine that says your next shirt is on the fucking house. And then what's her name? Liz. Liz. Yeah, Liz. Hey, Liz, you fight the good fight. You get in there, you do your fucking chemo or however you're taking care of this business and get it taken care of and get it out of you. Yeah. And many years of this stupid bullshit to come. Wait, the podcast or cancer?

No, no, none of that. Okay. Only the podcast and then general fun things in life. Yeah. Murder, cancer. You're going to be the smartest person you know because you've dealt with this thing. And you're going to have a great perspective on life. Totally. I actually know many cancer survivors

and the cool part about it is once you get through that, all that bullshit of like, that girl took my brush and now I'm going to try to ruin it. You don't do that shit anymore because you're like, you're like, oh, I understand what loss is and I understand the gift of life that we have right now. And my family who was there for me when I like that we were able to get through this together. The fact that her dad listens to that on the way to this bullshit.

You guys. Sorry we curse. Stay strong. We love you. We're thinking of you. Oh, we're back. Thank you, Tween Sensation and your dad for that amazing title suggestion. That's amazing. And then of course, you better believe that some awesome murderino created our logo with

this brand new title. It's, we'll put it up on the Instagram and on all the socials. It was Jason Klein. Jason Klein was like, the wife's out of the house, the kids are asleep. You better believe I'm making you a logo. It was the best. It's so good. It looks exactly like it. Apparently we really loved Stranger Things. I don't remember having that sort of passion.

I don't either. The first season, I think, was fucking excellent. And that's why. Maybe it was the newness of the style. And then it truly has been on for seasons and seasons. Yeah. So it's funny. Mystery, 80s mystery with like great clothes, music.

Winona Ryder. Yes. The scenery is just like spot on. There's like a missing child aspect to it, which is always exciting. Somebody like that look, a young girl with a shaved head who looks like she's in a daze with a bloody nose. Boom I'm in. Yeah what is this? I'm hooked. What happened to her? Yeah. All right well it's time to get into yeah one of oh god. I know. This is kind of an epic true crime story because it is connected to another true crime story which is, those are very rare and horrifying. And this one is one of the worst. So let's listen to Georgia tell the story

of the Semide Park killer, Kerry Stainer. -♪ BOOING! -♪ I think you're first this week. Am I first? Okay. Shh. All right, settle in, Karen. Okay. Get ready to hear... about something we've talked about. Okay. All right, settle in, Karen. Okay.

Get ready to hear about something we've talked about, we've touched on before. Okay. But we never delved into. Okay. The Yosemite murders, Kerry Stainer. As we know, and we've talked about, Kerry Stainer, here's just like the beginning of the fucked up-edness.

Kerry Stainer was the big brother of Stephen Stainer, if you'll remember in 1972, was kidnapped and held captive by a child monster named Kenneth Parnell. Kerry was the older brother and he was 11 years old. When it happened. Yeah, when it happened. And Steve and the brother was held captive

more than seven years before escaping. That itself is a fucked up story that you guys should look up. So awful. And this was one of our earliest episodes. We were trying to remember the name of that the made for TV movie, which is called, I Know My Name is Steve.

Yes. And we talked about it for way too long. And we're still getting people that are tweeting at us and sending us emails saying, it was called, I Know My Name is Steven. It's like that happened six months ago. Well, when we talked about that, that was the first time I found out

that these two were brothers, because I knew about Carrie's murders and I knew about Steven's kidnapping, but I didn't know they were connected. And that just makes it, it just, it makes, it boggles the mind, you know? In a way that's like more than just when you think of a serial killer and you're like,

how does your brain do that? And then we have this added piece of fucking childhood trauma in there. Also, it makes me think this poor family. Oh my God, totally. Like whoever is left standing, it's just like, how much can some people take? Those parents, man.

Because it's terrible. Yeah. It's so much. Well, so the year after Stephen came back, I'm going to call him Carrie. Carrie's uncle was murdered and Carrie was living with the uncle at the time, but no one considered him a suspect. And Kerry would later claim that his uncle molested him. Oh no. Cut to 1997. Kerry was hired as a handyman at the Cedar Lodge Motel in El Porto, just

outside of the highway 140, Arc Rock entrance to Yosemite National Park. So just outside Yosemite, Cedar Lodge. The weekend before February 1999, he was having these murderous fantasies that had become so intense that he knew he was gonna murder someone. He prepared a murder rape kit containing a rope, a roll of duct tape, and a serrated kitchen knife, and later a gun and a camera. As far as we know, besides his

uncle, which may or may not have happened, these are his first murders. So on Valentine's Day 1999, Carol's son, who was 42, her daughter Julie, who was 15, and Sylvina Peloso, who was 16, were his first victims. Carol was initially leery of Kerry when he knocked on their cabin door saying he had to fix a fan in the bathroom. She talked him through the window and didn't wanna let him in and only did so after he said he'd go get the manager to confirm it.

And she was like, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay You know the way people do when they give you the double confirmation Yeah, oh don't worry. I'll do the thing you want me to do right? Well, if you say that then well if you say you're gonna do the thing I want you to do then you must be legit right then. Okay. Yeah. All right. I'll do it So but once inside he pulls out a 22 caliber pistol All right, I'll do it. So, but once inside, he pulls out a 22 caliber pistol. He tells them he's desperate, quote,

and orders them to lie face down on the bed. He bounds their hands with duct tape, gags them, and then he took the two girls into the bathroom. He strangles Carol with a three foot piece of rope, later saying in his taped confession, I didn't realize how hard it is to strangle a person. It's not easy, but I had very little feeling. It was like performing a task.

Yeah, keep that in mind if it's really hard to strangle somebody. It's very hard. So maybe don't do it. Yeah, it's harder than one thinks. So after putting her in the trunk of her rented Pontiac, he goes back to the girls, cuts their clothes off, and then he strangles Silviana in the bathroom.

And then he sexually assaults Julie in the motel room, and then wraps her up, and he ties her to the bed. He says he felt like he was in control for the first time in his life. And he cleaned up the crime scene so well that it appeared that the women had checked out and left when the people came to check. When the staff came later to check

to see if they were there. They had detected no foul play. Let's see. when the staff came later to check to see if they were there. They had detected no foul play. Let's see. He even wiped his hair off the bedsheets. And then when the FBI agent asked on tape why he did that, he replied, I watched the Discovery Channel. Oh no. Hi, that's all of us.

Yep. Oh yeah. Everyone's getting real smart about forensics together. Good and bad. Yeah, for sure. So at 4 a.m., he takes Julie out of the motel and drives her away in the rental car

with her mother and friend in the trunk dead. So she's still alive? Yes. Okay. And I don't think she knows that those two are dead and in the trunk because he kind of, there alive? Yes. Okay. And I don't know, I don't think she knows that those two are dead and in the trunk because he kind of, there was two motel rooms that he was going between and I don't think

she ever saw the bodies. She just thought she was separated. Yeah, so she says, he says, I didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. I just kept driving and driving. And he said about Julie, she was a very likable girl. He said, crying on tape, she was very calm. So Dawn is approaching, he turns off at Lake Don Pedro

and carries Julie up a dirt path to a small clearing overlooking the water. I told her I wished I could keep her, he said. Then he sexually assaulted her again. Finally brushed her hair and fanned it out on the ground beneath her head. I told her I loved her, he said, and then he slit her throat. Oh told her I loved her, he said,

and then he slit her throat. Oh no. I didn't want her to suffer the way the other two did. A too late asshole. I know. Like I think because he choked them manually, he was thinking that it was taking longer, so he slit her throat, thinking he was-

Oh, comparatively. Yeah, like thinking he was being compassionate. So he hides her body and he drives the car with the bodies in the trunk as far as he could into the forest. Then he takes a cab back to Yosemite, pays with the fare with the $150 she stole from Carol's purse.

Two days later, he returns to the car with a can of gasoline and scratches, "'We have Sarah on the hood with a pocket knife.'" And then he lights the car on fire. Then he drove two hours west and dumped Carol's billfold on a pedestrian street corner to fool the police. So it's near where you're from, kind of. Kind of.

It's the Central Valley. We're more on the coast. OK. So more than a month later, the remains of Carol Sund and Pelosa were found in the burned out rental car abandoned along a logging road. And six days later, the FBI received an anonymous letter

with a crudely drawn map and a message. We had fun with this one. And following the map, the searchers found Julie. The detectives began interviewing employees at the Cedar Lodge Motel, where the first three victims had been staying just before their deaths. One of the employees was Kerry,

but he was not considered a suspect at that point. He has no criminal history and remained calm during the police interview. Fucking psychopath, right? Oh my God. FBI agents and local police rounded up a bunch of meth heads and sex offenders and told the tourists in residence that they were confident they had the killers in custody.

That, okay, so another woman disappears on July 22nd. This is Joey Ruth Armstrong, J-O-I-E, who was 26. She's a pretty redhead who worked for the Yosemite Institute teaching children about nature. Oh, sweet angel. She worked at the, let's see, was lone in the isolated cabin where she lived when Carrie came upon her. Man, we can't have anything.

We can't even live alone. Well, but living in a cabin alone in the woods. Yeah, but guys can do it. What? Guys can live alone in the cabin in the woods without getting murdered for the most part. Yeah, but guys can do it. What? Guys can live alone in a cabin in the woods without getting murdered for the most part. Yeah, and they're guys. That's what I'm saying.

It's not fair. No, I know. I'm more, I'm still in the mode of, if you're going to live in a cabin in the woods, then pull your gun out anytime someone approaches your home. Yeah. Like, I don't know.

Or big dogs, big, angry, scary dogs. Krav Mag Like, I don't know. Or big dogs, big anger scary dogs. Krav Maga, I don't know. Yeah, no, I get it. Don't be all chill. Yeah, I wouldn't wanna live, I like living in a big city where there's just people everywhere on top of you all the time. So according to the interview,

Carrie confronted Armstrong at gunpoint on the front porch of her cabin. Oh, he had a gun? Yeah. I wouldn't have helped. He told her it was a robbery and forced her into the cabin and covered her mouth

and bound her hands behind her back with duct tape. Then he put her in his sports utility vehicle, SUV. I could have just said that. That's an SUV. Thank you. Someone needed an extra word count in their newspaper piece, right?

Did you also draw a picture? Yeah. Page five is just one big picture. Well, I copied a couple of these sentences, and that was one of them. And now I'm like, that guy just needed a higher word count, for sure. Yeah.

He said, I lost control of myself, and I lost control of her. Let's see, he said, when this started out, I had no intention of cutting her head off, which he later did. Spoiler alert. Man. He says he has no intention of cutting her head off. I had no intentions of killing her even the first time I saw her. Yeah, right. Then I started thinking about it. It was in the house. There was nobody in the house with her and she kept walking out by herself and she watered the plants

and it was obvious she was taking off and getting ready to go. That's when I started talking to her. So the assistant US attorney, then, okay, in court papers it was said, after he had driven a short distance, she drove head first out of the wind, through the window out of the moving truck

and still bound with duct tape, ran through the woods toward the nearby community of Furista to get help. Hell yeah. Girl, good for you. Fight your fucking last fight. Yeah. You know?

I don't know if that was the right saying. Well, Carrie ultimately subdued Armstrong. She fought so crazy and with such passion that Stainer wasn't able to do his normal cleanup job, like obsessive cleanup job. He disposed of her beheaded body in a nearby stream and the head turned up 27 feet away. In a hurry, he fled and a close source.

He fled. He fled. No, he fled, Karen. Don't fucking correct me. Let her count. He fled. Sorry to correct you. We want to say- Let her count. Let her count. He fled. Sorry to correct you.

No, you're right. He fled. A close source, close to the investigation. Oh my God. I think you were pointing that out. No, I did not catch that. Says it was a fight from start to finish. She tried to get away and she almost did get away.

And those several minutes of struggle left behind a lot of evidence. Her determined fight for life denied him the chance to cover up the crime scene, and it led to his capture and undoubtedly saved other lives. Yes. Honey. She basically ended it. Yep. By fighting that hard.

She fucking fought so hard that he lost it. So in his haste, he left behind footprints and basically his car was seen around the area. It was really distinctive. The tire tracks were as well. And so the vehicle was traced to him and he was arrested. And during his interrogation, he confessed to all four murders. He pled not guilty by reason of insanity. And a doctor testified that he had mild autism,

obsessive compulsive disorder, and paraphilia. At one point during the trial, the judge, Thomas C. Hastings, had to leave the courtroom so he could compose himself in private because the testimony was so fucked up. He returned several minutes later, red-faced and misty eyed. A judge. The circumstances of this case are horrendous and devastating, he said before announcing the

sentence. Kerry was found sane and convicted of four counts of first degree murder by a jury in 2001. He was sentenced to death and is still in San Quentin. He claimed after his arrest, so everyone's like, did you get these murderous tendencies because of the stuff with your brother and all this horrible stuff that happened as a kid? But he said after his arrest that he had fantasized about murdering women since he was seven years old,

long before the abduction of his brother. So what are the chances? Those two traumatic fucked up things are gonna happen in one family? So awful. Okay, and then I went on Facebook and found a hometown murder from a reader. So I'm gonna read it.

Okay. So Taylor C says, in June of 1999, I was 11 and my brother was eight. My family and I went on a road trip to Yosemite from LA and all caps stayed in the Cedar Lodge Motel. This is for everyone. This is right between the murder of the three women and the murder of a single woman, like months before, like months in between.

Oh man. Around 9.30 at night, my brother and I were watching Batman and Robin and we get a knock at the door. My mom looks through the peephole, sees some dude and asks what he wants. He says pizza delivery We had already eaten so we knew no one had ordered a pizza My mom tells him as much and he insists that we did my mom tells him that he must have been mistaken

But he keeps insisting after a certain point my mom walks away and assumes he did as well Several minutes of knocking later. my mom calls the hotel management. He must've heard her on the phone because when they showed up, he was gone. My mom filed a police report, but nothing really ever came of it. I think when they caught him, she was briefly interviewed, but because she didn't get a good look at him,

she wasn't useful in the case. To think my brother and I could have died while watching Arnold laying down some truly excellent ice puns because they were watching where'd it go Batman and Robin fucked up shit was was it did she say it was just her mom it was her brother and her mom her and her brother and her mom. Her and her brother and her mom. So like he spotted like moms with kids. Yeah. He must have targeted them. But why would you do it again in the same?

I mean, I guess you didn't get caught the first time. Yeah, you didn't get caught. And you're cocky. And he still has the fantasy. Like he still has, it's the compulsion. And then there's sometimes that thing of like, maybe you wanted to get caught. Yes.

Well, it surprised me when you said that he cried when he was talking about the first girl. Well, when that, when during the trial, when a lot of the stuff is being discussed, when he was listening to his own testimony, he would, he would plug up his ears and cry. Like he couldn't listen to it. Even though when he was giving that information during

the interrogation, he was like, like dead, you know, emotionally dead. Wow. So either that was just for the just for the show for the jury. Oh, that's true. Or you know, maybe he was on anti psychotics or something at that point and understood. Or if he was like, yeah, he was like hadn't processed anything. Yeah. He was confessing. Yeah. Okay, we're back. Georgia, are there any updates for this story? Yeah, there are some, you know,

before today's episode, I was reading a bunch of articles about everything because I'm so curious personally about any other murders he may have committed that we don't know about. And there's just still no information about that whatsoever. So that's kind of, I mean, I just, I feel like it has to be there. But so Kerry Stainer is now 63 years old.

He's still incarcerated at San Quentin. And as I mentioned, they are looking into him for five other killings dating back to the eighties. And there's just, including his own uncle, and there's still nothing. And he's never been charged in those cases. And then the FBI later revealed that Kerry Stainer originally planned

to murder his then girlfriend, that he was dating at the time of these murders and her two children. And he attempted three separate occasions, what was derailed when he saw another person on the grounds where they lived, leading him to find his first victims at the Cedar Lodge Motel instead.

And actually one of the little girls, one of the daughters of the then girlfriend has come forward and talked about him as like the perfect stepdad type. And they had no clue whatsoever, of course. You know, and then her horrible survivor's guilt that she had and just how awfully it affected her life. It's really moving.

But yeah, in general, that's just like, just such a fuck story. It's just, it's so dark and so odd, the like, because I think someone in this story, he was arrested and then someone asked him if he got his murderous tendencies because of what happened to his brother. And he was like, no, I've been fantasizing about murder since I was seven years old.

So dark. Just terrible. I know. I think there's a really good documentary out there about this too, if you want to check it out. All right, well, let's get to your wild story. Wild, also heartbreaking. This is Karen's story about Clark Rockefeller. All right, are you ready to transition? Always. Because mine, I actually, this, I was watching this documentary this weekend about this guy that I'm going to talk about. And it's very entertaining. Even though he is also a murderer. He is more a con man, which I actually kind

of adore You're like a mobster who won't kill women and children Yes, you're like, you know what, you know when you can like pick and choose the bad Like this is the kind that I like where it for the most part now he is a Borderline personality, I think extreme narcissist there they have all kinds of you know, the psychiatrist talked about what he was in court. But he basically what it was,

he was a guy who grew up in Germany as a very awkward teen. In this documentary, they talk about how he, when all their friends would go to like the, to the lake every summer, he would always go, but he would be fully dressed up, and they never saw him in a bathing suit. Because it's Hitler.

That man's name was Mr. Adolf Marie Hitler. Noah, this was, well, he was born Christian Karl Gerhard Schreiter, but he had many names in his long con career. He also went by the name Chris Chichester, Chris Crow, Chip Smith, and finally, Clark Rockefeller, heir to the Rockefeller Fund. You know this guy, Clark Rockefeller. What's the documentary called? It's called My Friend Rockefeller.

Yeah, I never got through it. So tell me everything. It is, it's worth getting to the part where Clark Rockefeller or Chris Chichester or Chip Smith or Chris Crowe is my favorite because when he was Chris Crowe, he claimed to be a relative of Cameron Crowe. He does all these lies that are just small enough,

they're big enough to impress you, but small enough to be believable. And it is masterful. And he's a really legitimately IQ style intelligent person, but he also doesn't really have any morals. So most of the time everything's fine because he's just trying to get money and like work for himself and get what he wants.

Fair enough. And doesn't he make like everyone happy around him too? Like everyone thinks he's so funny and cool. For a little while. I think the limit's two years that people are happy around this guy. Then he starts getting real irritating and that's when he gets kicked out of houses,

fired from jobs, what have you. But so this is basically how it goes. He grows up as an awkward teen in Germany. He has a group of friends and in the documentary, the friends get interviewed and what I loved is one of the friends goes, I love that he tricked all those rich Americans. And that part made me go, oh yeah, that's true.

He really did get away with huge, huge lies for a really long time. So here's basically how it went. He also claimed to be, these are all the things he claimed to be, an actor, a producer, a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain, a negotiator of international debt

agreements, and an English aristocrat. Gee, what is? He did it all. So when he was 17, he met an American couple who had pulled off and asked him for directions on the side of the road. And he met them, got their names. And then when he wanted to go to America, uh, when he was 17,

he used their names on the like entrance documents to say that they had invited him there and that he was going to go live with them. This was a one-off meeting on like the side of the road. And those people are also in this documentary. It's pretty awesome. Um, so he comes to the United States and he goes to Merritt in Connecticut and he finds the family of a backpacker he met once on a train in Germany.

I can't even talk to the person sitting next to me on an airplane. I have a hard time talking to people I've known for 20 years. Yeah. Much less asking people if you can go stay at their parents' house. Oh my God, I asked Vince if I can eat some of his chips because I feel bad about it.

I can't imagine being like, can I stay at your place we met once? And just so weird and uncomfortable. No. Okay, so he explains to them that he is from a very wealthy German family and that he is in America like he's a foreign exchange student and can he stay with them because he's going to be going to the local high school. Basically, he starts going to high school in Connecticut and basically his whole thing is he wants to be American, he wants to blend in. He becomes obsessed with

Gilligan's Island and he starts talking like Thurston Halbothirk. Oh, that's cool. And when he appears in this documentary, that's who he starts talking like Thurston Halba. And when he appears in this documentary, that's who he's talking like. And it wasn't until I was reading this article where they mentioned this specifically where I started laughing. Because they don't talk about it in the documentary? He does talk about it, but they talk about it like it's an insight. He goes, the guy who makes the documentary,

who was friends with him, brings it up, but they don't like, Clark Rockefeller like kind of brushes it off. Like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he totally sounds like him. But he's talking like this. Oh my God, that's perfect. And he's basically saying.

It's the funniest, but also it's that thing where I don't like to usually, I don't like to listen to killers, especially I never watch anything where the serial killer is talking. I don't give a fuck what that guy has to say. He's evil. This guy's different though, because he's a con man first and foremost, even though yes he's a bad person, killer, all of that, but he is a fascinating mind because he was smart enough to like,

as a teen con all these people. So he goes to this high school, he decides that he wants to be an actor, so he heads west, but he makes it as far as Wisconsin, and he decides he's gonna go to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. So once he's there, he decides he needs to, he's been in the United States long enough

where he needs a green card basically and he's becoming a citizen. So he decides he's gonna marry marry a local 22 year old woman, who he explains to her that he needs the green card because if he gets sent back to Germany, he will have to fight in the Cold War on the Russian front. Now, if you knew anything about anything, I mean, and I barely know anything about anything. But when I read that, I was like, Hey, wait a second. Pretty sure the Cold War didn't have a front. Because the Cold War was all about tensions and basically threats. There's no such thing as there was no Russian

front in the Cold War. I mean, there were places to go. There were bad things happening. Definitely. He, if the idea was that he was gonna get sent back to like East Berlin and have to spy on his neighbors, yes, horrible, but there was no Russian front. Prisoner of war because of, or not a prisoner of war, of accused of war crimes or something like that. Like a political prisoner, yeah. But there was no, the Russian front was from World War II.

That was a bad place to be. Sure. Anyway, she fell for it and married him. And the next day he left for California. So I was like, was she in agreement and fine with it? But then later I read that she filed for divorce in 1992, 11 years later. Maybe she was like, needed him,

maybe she's like a lesbian and like, needed to appease her family. Oh, cover story? Yeah. Oh, and even think about that. I immediately wrote the story of she was just heartbroken and like pining in Milwaukee for this fabulous European that bailed on her the day after,

because it said their wedding. So it sounded like it wasn't just the basics, like city hall, signs and papers. Like they had a wedding. Oh no. That's sad. A little crazy. All right, so he, or maybe she like is like me

and is just bad about paperwork and doesn't get shit done in time. So she's like, oh, that's right, I have to get divorced. I'll do it when I meet someone else. I'll do it when I have good reason that she's on Tinder swiping, swiping, swiping. Come on. So he heads out to California.

Now this is, it's so fascinating. He goes to San Marino. Now I don't know if you've ever been to Huntington Gardens. Oh, you're from down here, you know. San Marino is like, so Pasadena is a rich area that very few people I know live in. Cause it's like old money, rich, you're from down here, you know. San Marino is like, so Pasadena is a rich area that very few people I know live in. Because it's like old money rich, you know, you have to live out of the city.

San Marino is richer than Pasadena. It's the city nestled up right next to Pasadena where all the mansions are basically. And it's gorgeous. It's crazy. So this is a guy who's in his early 20s, like college age. He's moving to LA to be an actor and he moves to San Marino to get,

it doesn't make sense. San Marino, I looked it up. It was rated more expensive than Beverly Hills and Malibu to live in. So it just is nonsensical for like a young actor type to live there. Sure. But that's what he was about.

He was like a total, he was thirst and hell the third and he was trying to go become that person in like a very real way. So he got, he rented the guest house that was in one of the least nice houses in all of San Marino. There is actually a slightly shabby part, was in one of the least nice houses in all of San Marino. There is actually a slightly shabby part, which is just basically not million dollar homes.

And in one of those houses, a woman named Didi Sojas had a guest house on her property. Didi reportedly was an alcoholic who was always dressed in a housecoat, which. Sounds like. Hey sister, high five. Yeah. And Didi had a son named John, who was five foot five,

super into Dungeons and Dragons, coke bottle glasses, and was married to a woman named Linda, who was a six foot tall redhead. These sound like fucking our type of people. They are, they are our type of people. They lived in like the house adjacent. So it was almost like this little compound and Clark Rockefeller at the time, his name was,

let's see, his name here was Christopher Chichester, which is the dumbest made up name of all time. That sounds like when I said, what was it? Nancy St. Nancy? Nancy St. Stacey. That wasn't as bad as Chichester. That's not as bad as Chris Chichester. Yeah. Just-

It's like you stuttered three times. Yeah. Throw more Cs in there, you dork. So, okay. So he shows up in San Marino. He's charming everybody. You dork. So, okay. So he shows up in San Marino. He's charming everybody. And what he tells them is that not only is he a computer expert, a film producer and a stockbroker, he is also the nephew of Lord Mountbatten. So what I kind of do like about this all is all the people that get tricked by this guy

are people who are label whores and status whores. So anyone that's like- Impressed by status. Impressed by someone talking like Thurston Hell III and saying I'm related to Lord Mountbatten. Where like in my family, if you said that, it'd be like, well, go do the dishes.

It'd be like, really Lord Mountbatten? Can you go get some more beer out of the downstairs refrigerator? Right. But it's a lot of people, and especially that's why he was going to places like San Marino. You go to places where people work in those worlds,

and those are the people that are most impressed by, you're all rich, well, I'm a blue blood. Well, I'm actually royalty. Someone that can come in and beat them at their own game. What's more interesting than that. So the locals said he was a whiz at everything. He proved especially popular with the women who were very charmed by his royal bloodline

and his courtly manners. One of the women said he knew everything about everything and he was just fabulous. So it's not just an act, he's really getting away with it. And he was very, very smart. Sounds like it. So, um, so in 1985, tragedy strikes. This is two years after Chris moves into the so hus, the so husses, you know, house, Dee Dee's son Jonathan and his wife Linda go missing without a trace. Chris tells everybody that they told him that they were going to go to Europe. The family got a postcard from France, supposedly from the couple after the disappearance, but its authenticity has been questioned.

And so soon after they disappear, Didi Sojas disinherited her son, who was beloved to her up until that point. The police think that she was convinced that he had abandoned her. And after, when Didi died, they found that $180,000 of her estate had been looted. Her entire estate, sorry. Her entire estate was worth $180,000

and all of it had been taken. Oh, that's so sad. So. Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons. In the late, I just say that like it's, I mean something by it. I know what I do too. Dungeons and dragons.

But we know what we mean. In the late 80s, police pull Christopher Chichester over in Greenwich, Connecticut. He's driving Jonathan Sohus's truck. The police, he leaves the area before police can interview him. I don't know what that means if he's like, Oh, well, thanks everybody. Thanks for pulling me over.

Great to see you. And just drives away. I'm not sure. Or if they meant the neighborhood. Sounds like the neighborhood, right? It's just weird because if you've got him there and he's driving, so maybe they just had the information that it was that truck and they didn't put it together till later. But I looked it up, Greenwich, in the year 2000, Greenwich was the third wealthiest town

in Connecticut. So he's just going East Coast. Now he's gonna do this on the East Coast. Big money. Yeah. So he rents a post office box in Greenwich under the name Christopher C. Crow. CCC.

He loves the C. He literally walked into the Indian Harbor Yacht Club like he owned the place. So this is a rich town that has a yacht club. And he rolled up on in, here's how he was described. He looked like he walked out of a magazine. He always had his Burberry winter coat, Burberry umbrella, very fine cotton button down white shirts

with CCC monogrammed on the pockets for Christopher Chichester Crowe. Always pristine, always perfect. Sounds like what you wear whenever you go out. Yep, I do have my button down K K-L-K shirt on now. Bye. I'm so hot. I'm sorry.

Someone else said, he's talking to you as if he's smarter, wealthier, more connected, more everything than you, no matter who you are. Fuck you. So he's just playing the rich game and beating them at the rich game. Because I think Thurston Howell III was the richest man on the planet.

So if that's who he is, he's right. Yeah. So he sleeps with a woman. So that basically his inn in Greenwich was this yacht club. He starts sleeping with a woman who ends up getting him this really high level job in town at a broker dealer firm. I don't know what that is. I don't either.

I cut my eyes were skipping over the part where it got into like finance. But basically a huge finance job. You have to take two tests to do this job. One called the series seven and one calls the series 63. There's seven, it's seven hours of questions. Holy shit. And he passed it.

What the shit? So he's a very, very, very intelligent person. So now you know the brain that's being applied to conning people. Fair. A memorizer, an absorber of personalities and information and the kind of person that will tell you the perfect lie. He's Lord Mountbatten's nephew. He's not anybody's son. There's nothing direct.

So, all right. So he stays at this job for two years, but he's super... People don't... At first, it's interesting that they have this royalty working there. After two years, they're sick of hearing him talk. And he did the ultimate wrong move, which was the boss, the guy that hired him, who was the president of the company, wanted to access his own computer and Chris wouldn't tell him how to do it.

Because he thought, if I'm the only one that knows how to do it and you don't know, I will never get fired. Instead, the guy in charge was like, get the fuck out of here and somebody else is gonna teach me how to get into my computer. Well, from there, he gets a better job.

So he gets fired from that job and then he gets hired at a place called Niko. I don't know, it's another one of these like Wall Street jobs. Karen, this is not our universe. I'm not interested in it. I don't like it. Nope. I don't care. But essentially he does great there too for a couple years.

But he, a couple people were onto him. This is all in the documentary because he would ask, he'd ask a question like, have you ever sold one of these? And the guy that he asked the question to is in the documentary who's like, that'd be like asking a dentist, do you know what a bike cuspid is?

Like it's one of the basics. So that guy was like, I was pretty sure something was going on. Yeah. And then of course, by the end, everyone just, he's bragging and he's you know an asshole to everybody So he gets fired from there Then

He goes to another company a bigger company so he gets a better job each firing he just is failing upwards But this is the job where they finally Do a background check. Oh, no sorry, two years after he got dismissed from the first place, they finally look him up. They run his social security number, and the social security number that he gave was David Berkowitz's, the son of Sam. Shut the fuck up.

That is the coolest part. It's amazing. So it's kind of like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself. But no one ever did until after he left. Yeah. Okay, so. Holy shit, that's cool.

It's crazy. So on this third job, someone at the third job finally looks into his background while he still works there and finds out that he is a person of interest in a missing persons case in California. How did that guy feel when he saw that? I mean, probably nervous, but stoked.

Yeah, excited. And then hungry, because it was right before last night. Who knows? So the Greenwich police and the Connecticut State police show up at this job, but that day Christopher Chichester, no sorry, Christopher Crowe now. Christopher Crowe didn't show up for work that day because he was onto them, he knew,

but he called in to say he needed time off because his parents had been kidnapped in either Pakistan or Japan. Oh come on, just say you don't feel well. Well and also that's where your lies are getting a bit big. Yeah. Like pick one. Yeah.

It's Pakistan. Yeah. But you have a hangover. Yeah, or you're, yeah, you broke one of your teeth and you're out for a couple of days. Your bicuspid. How about your bicuspid? Don't take that.

So he disappears from Greenwich, Connecticut, and he reappears in New York City in 1992. And where does he go? Where did John List go when he had to start all over in a new town? The church. Church. Church. Church.

You show up, say it with me church. You show up at church with your song and dance and you have a built in community of people who are going to trust you. Totally. Keep your eyes peeled, Churchies. So he rolls up. This is now when he is... Keep your eyes peeled, Churchies.

I say that as if that's something that's important. This is now when he's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in New York City and he's introducing's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in New York City and he's introducing himself as a Rockefeller. That seems like something you'd wanna introduce yourself anywhere but in New York City. Well, but here's the thing, he knows the difference. So he specifies to these people at this church

that he is from the Percy Rockefeller side, not John Dee. John Dee is the one, he's crazy rich. Percy still is super rich, but not John D level. So he always goes right under. He goes in with the claim that's right beneath. It's believable enough. Yeah, we're still talking millions of dollars, crazy old American blue blood money.

It still would impress people like my mom. Oh, he's a Rockefeller, you know. My grandmother used to say, like, she'd go pick that penny up off the floor were not the Rockefellers. Totally. That was like a total grandma saying. Yeah.

She also said a lot of racist stuff. Yeah. That I won't repeat. So don't listen to her. She was a good person at heart. It was just, it was the times. Make America great again. All right.

He claimed to have gone to Yale like when he was 14. He had a Yale scarf with the blue stripes. He said he had one of the J boats from his grandparents, which was a classic 30s sailing yacht. Yeah, I do, too. Yeah. Don't we all? So basically what he learned is that if you joined private clubs in a big city and they're all like, clubs no one's ever even heard of, the Lodos and stuff like that where I'm like,

oh yeah, I'm clearly as working class as you can get. We'll never be. No, no, no, we're closed. We'll never be asked to. No, they're not going to ask us. I don't think so. But this is where the Vanderbelts and the Whitney's and the Roosevelt's and the Rockefellers,

they've all been socializing since the 1800s. So he learns the kind of language of private clubs and those people, and then all of his lies become believable because he's speaking their language and saying the stupid shit that they all say to each other over cucumber sandwiches. What do they say, I wonder? It's all whispering about cash.

Yeah, transactions, lots of trends. Yeah, bonds. Bonds. More bonds. More bonds. Polio. Polo? Polio, polo.

I meant polio. I meant polio. I meant polio. You meant the disease. Yeah, because Roosevelt had that. Yeah, you gotta talk about it. Right. Where am I? So, oh sorry, I lost my place

and I'm hallucinating from the heat. I'm so sorry it's so hot in here. There's nothing you can do. So, oh, I was on the totally wrong page. I tried to do that scrolling thing that I do. All right, so. Okay, so he married, in 1995, he marries a woman that he met through St. Thomas Church,

this church that he went to, and she was a Harvard MBA who rose to be one of the youngest partners in history at McKinsey. I don't know what that is. Law firm? Probably. She had a $2 million salary. She was like a legendary businesswoman.

Fuck man. He meets her at church. They hit it off and they get married. He has a way with the ladies. Yeah. He explains to her that none of his family is gonna be at the wedding because there had been an argument and he had disinvited all of them. Wow.

So he has no family there. Red flag. But he marries into her family and they have a child named Ray, which I actually like that name for a girl. Ray. Ray, R-E-I-G-H. Oh, that's actually like that name for a girl. Ray. Ray, R-E-I-G-H.

Oh, that's cute. He nicknamed her Snooks. Snooks. Which may have been something Thurston Howell III called his wife. Snooks, yeah. He'd insisted on raising her and educating her himself. I would love to meet and talk to her. Oh my God, she's the coolest.

So anyway, they ultimately get divorced and she, the wife, has to pay him $800,000 in alimony. And he won the white, but she, sorry, she won the right to raise Ray in London. So in 2008, a court supervised visit in Boston, Rockefeller kidnaps Ray. Oh no. So she's seven years old.

He's meeting up with Ray and the court appointed like social worker basically. And he runs up, pushes that woman over, grabs the little girl, and jumps into a car and drives away. Oh no. The social worker actually ran after and grabbed onto the back bumper of the car

for a little bit trying to do something about it. Oh my God. But don't worry, he lived for this little girl. He just wanted her in his life. He wasn't gonna harm her in any way. Yeah, but you don't even know that. Everyone in this documentary says it. Like they would never, he worshiped her

and she was everything to him. Snucks. And he got caught two weeks later. Okay. So, but there was, he had set up a new identity in Baltimore, that's where he was gonna become Chip Smith, a professional yacht captain and catamaran designer.

But he got caught immediately. He was, in 2009, he was convicted and sentenced to four to five years for abducting his daughter and two to three years for the assault on the social worker who did get in injured by that SUV that he had waiting. But, um, we'll circle back around now because in 1994, the new owners of the Sohus' house in San Marino were digging to build a new pool. And they found two bodies deep, deep underneath the ground

in the backyard at the Sohus' house. And it was, the family members said the bones matched Jonathan Sohus's general description, but he was adopted. So they couldn't do a family DNA match. Oh, so she adopts this kid, and he's this like great nerd, and she loves him so much.

But she's kind of a loser. And then he takes off. But then he finds love in a six foot redhead. Aw. And they're kind of this mismatched couple that are making it happen and then. She thinks he just leaves her. Yes.

Oh, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard. So forensic evidence showed that the victim, who's Jonathan, had been struck in the head two times with a rounded blunt object, then stabbed six times. His body had been cut into three parts, and the body parts had been put into book bags from the University of Wisconsin and from USC, where Chris Clark, all these people,

he had actually sat in on film classes, Chris Clark, all these people, he had actually sat in on film classes, never registered as a student, but he used to go to USC and go to classes. He just wasn't actually a student there. And so that circumstantial evidence combined with the fact that he was arrested driving Jonathan's truck in Greenwich basically convicted him of murder. Sorry, there was only one body buried in the backyard.

They never found Linda. Linda. Where do you think she is? Well, the police suspect that Clark had an affair with Linda. Oh no. Because basically, Clark thought he was in with Dee Dee and thought that he was going to get her money and get the house and be in San Marino

and like have his life. And then Jonathan and Linda were basically what were standing in the way of that. And I think, and he thought, you know, I'll get, this is just this crazy old drunk lady. I'm gonna get her to sign everything over to me and then I'm going to have the life I want. And then Linda and Jonathan are just like,

you need to move out of here. And basically that's where it started. So he, the theory is that he tried to break them up as a couple and then he murdered Jonathan. So Linda might be out in the world. They think she's dead. Yeah, she's dead. Yeah, they just think that he brought the body

somewhere else. That's so sad. I believe. Yeah. He was charged with Jonathan's murder and the trial was in April of 2013 and he was convicted of first degree murder and he's now in some weird jail, Ironwood jail in Blythe, California.

Wow, can I see a photo of him? Yeah. I wanna see him like a mug shot. It's so funny because when they talk about that he's good looking and stuff, or that he had a way with the ladies. Nope. Well.

Let's see, is he hot? I mean, to each his own. Oh my God, he's like a nerd. He's, well, and also when you see him talking, it's even worse. He's got no mouth. Because he kind of talks like this. It's like somebody in a bad, like mustard commercial

where you're like, why would you talk like that? He looks like he is a character in The Simpsons. Yeah. Like, oh no, where's his mouth? He's just kind of, you know, I'm sure he was insecure as a teen. Sure. And all of that, plus being really smart, you know? Yeah.

Just made up for. I don't see him being a ladies man, but good for him. It's all in the brains, brains, brains. Brains, brains, brains. Brains. We should thank Steven. Yeah, thank you, Steven. Our beautiful engineer who gave us microphones.

Yeah, they're beautiful. Thank you. They really are gorgeous. Steven, you've been killing it. We appreciate it. Thank you for all your help. Elvis is sitting there waiting. Elvis, it's your big chance. Oh, okay.

Wait, can we try and do this? Do we do it before or after we say? Elvis, you want a cookie? Mwah. You want a cookie? Mwah. He wants your microphone. Mwah. Do you want a cookie? Meow. You want a cookie? Meow. He wants your microphone. Meow.

We usually do it after because stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Woo. Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates? There are updates. I recently listened to a podcast about this story. It was like one of those anthology podcasts. It was like a bunch of, it was almost like, here's a bunch of rich crimes or whatever.

And then it was this guy is like, he isn't really rich, but it is. So I just recently kind of revisited this and it just like, God, this is, it's just insane. So after numerous denied appeals, Clark Rockefeller, quote unquote, was transferred to San Quentin in December of 2016. And so he's there now. He stays busy painting and he's a journalist for the San Quentin News. So with good time credits, he'll be eligible for parole in December of 2029. He'll be 68 years old if he gets paroled then. And his daughter, Ray, has since changed her name and she lives a private life,

which is good for her. How wild is it that both of the murderers in this story are in San Quentin right now, as we're speaking? Oh, yeah. Do you think they fucking know each other? I would think they do, only because aren't the infamous killers like treated slightly differently? Yeah, they're like held separately for some reason. Or get protection maybe if they might need it.

I don't know. Who knows? Shit. I definitely don't know, but that's, yeah, that's crazy observation. It's so creepy. Okay, so this episode was originally titled, as we have said many times, The Fuck Word Murder Mystery Show.

And if we were naming it today, which, you know, that's a classic name, what would we call it based on something we said in this episode? So the quietest girls on the podcast, because that's us, obviously us. Yes, we're so quiet. And Demure, excuse me, which is what Georgia, she's talking about

saying a spoiler without warning and it's like burping without saying excuse me before or after. Which if that's the case, we have burped and burped and burped literally and figuratively all the way through this show. We have never said spoiler alert before our burps, for sure. I remember people getting mad about that and putting it in like on social media and no kind of because in the beginning Oh, like can you please say spoiler alert and it's just like yeah Yeah, no, like you have to it's the extending spoiler alert. We're gonna ruin it for you, right? It's also like okay, but did that air like five weeks ago? Like what's the cutoff? It's not on us anymore

It's on on us anymore. It's on you. 30 years ago. We're spoiling a rear window for you. I mean, I don't think. Also, I'm like, I basically have gone into lockdown until I see Nosferatu. So like that's just the,

that's the life I'm willing to live if I want a totally fresh experience. Yeah, it's on you. Take some responsibility. Wait a second. There's also Alejandra's suggestion, Meow, meow, meow, meow, which is me doing a theme song for Tweet Corner, and it says it's Mimi's theme song as well. Well, you probably just heard it because you just listened to Rewind, which we fucking appreciate.

Thank you guys for listening. It's so nice of you to re-engage and to churn up all of the old stuff and look at it and piece through it with us. Take what works for you, leave the rest, like in AA, and thanks for being here. Leave a penny, take a penny? Yeah, all of it. It's one of those kinds of podcasts. Let's do it that way.

So stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?