My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - The Live TNT’s I Am The Night Special

Episode Date: January 25, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the Black Dahlia Murder in a special presentation with TNT’s I Am The Night. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime, and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook, and listen to True Crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Hi everybody, fan cult. Oh should we give it an official what's up fan cult? Yeah, what's up fan cult? I pushed that a little bit, it was kind of a match. It smells great. I went nasal on it.

Who's it? Hi, well honey, thanks for coming out in the rain. This is, right, that's here for weather in Los Angeles. Can you believe it's happening? This is, I would say, the first official live, in-person Los Angeles fan cult meeting. Welcome, everybody. Yeah, we're gonna call your name from the list. That's right. Please only say the word present. Yeah, and then tell me if you've messaged with my dad on the fan cult. Go on, please. Is Marty here tonight? No, he's not. Oh, maybe. I didn't invite him.

Maybe? I don't know. He's in the back wearing a weird mustache. Marty, we see you. Hello, that's Stephen. Oh, Stephen, you are here, right? No, not there. Uh, yeah, this, yeah, it's so weird like doing this in our hometown and and not being, you know, in another city and staying at a hotel tonight. Oh, we're gonna stay at a hotel. I forgot to tell you. I got us the bridal suite at Shutter's.

We're gonna drive out. Yeah, it's gonna be the most romantic day of the entire tour. Well, so you probably all know this. You saw the amazing sign in front of the L.A. tonight, but we are here because TNT invited us to screen the pilot of their new series, I Am The Night. Yes, it's really fucking cool. Obviously, it centers around the Black Dahlia murders, which is fucking fascinating. Um, and then you all know, like the back of your hand. Yeah, we're still gonna go over it. We have to talk about it.

We have to lay it out for all the people that brought their mom or whatever weird choice they decided to make tonight. Hey, I work with you. We only talk twice. Do you want to come to a murder comedy show with me? I bet you won't be offended at all. Is that a crucifix you're wearing? Okay, let's see. Let's see how our night goes. And you're fired. And why do I keep inviting my boss places? It is really freaking cool to be at the L.A., though, because I've seen so many concerts here since I was super young. And this neighborhood,

Miracle Mile, is my like family's like neighborhood. You grew up rich? Since no. Truly no. That is a myth. That's a lie. I'm floating. I mean, go for it. Here's the thing about Georgia. She's fucking from tons of money. Her parents own Miracle Mile. But my, so my aunt Elaine, when she was in high school, I don't know, the 50s, let's say. Is this a real person? I'm so into air. I texted with her today.

She went to high school at Fairfax and she used to work here when it was a movie theater. Really? Serving popcorn. Yeah. And I told her I'm going to be here tonight. She said break a leg. I asked my mom how long we'd live in Miracle Mile and she didn't text me back. Because she's too popular for me now. Because Janet started listening to some of the back issues of back episodes and now she knows everything you're saying about her. Yeah. Probably. She got a hold of a copy of our book. She was like, there's a chapter called

I Hate My Mom by Georgia Hardstart. And so I don't love you anymore. I'm not going to be texting with you until we discuss that. That's right. I actually, one of my favorite concerts I've ever seen was here was Yola Tango a couple years ago. And here's the hugest brag. I got to be in that balcony somehow. I'm not sure. I definitely didn't buy anything. So it was like I was with somebody or there was I maybe knew the balcony guy. I'm not sure. But I got up into that balcony and then me and my friend Matt

Price were e-strapping on people at the bar's conversations. And then we started yelling out nouns that they were saying. Because like everyone at the bar was being so intensely Los Angeles. Like there was two dudes that kept on talking about Runyon and they were just like fucking Runyon this and Runyon that. I fucking, what were they saying? It was just like dude I went out to Runyon the other day where I was like it isn't it's a dirt uphill with dog shit on it is what Runyon is. Truly. If you feel like working out

and you love animal feces get the fuck up Runyon. Truly one of the worst places to hike in Los Angeles. It stinks the whole time and you're outside so you're like is there dog shit on my shoe? Oh no the trail's made of dog shit. It's definitely one of those beautiful places that make you say to yourself this is why I take my shoes off before I go in my house and make everyone do so. It's the reason I say oh why did I ever think I would be an actor in Los Angeles?

That's crazy I would never walk up Runyon unless someone had a shotgun to my back and even then I'd be like could we go somewhere with less shit but anywhere else. Let's just get to the end of this can we? How about the oil derricks they hardly have any shit around them? Yeah so we just sat up there yelling Runyon! I think MCafe also got yelled at at some point. Those two go hand in hand though. You walk Runyon then you go get your fucking

Keto lunch at MCafe. Yeah. There's some people here that are like look I'm from Torrance I don't know what the fuck you are talking about or why. It sounds terrible though. It's a celebration of Los Angeles. That's right. Your hands are ghost-like cold. I know. Cold like a ghost. Oh do you want to show your armpits? Oh yeah. Show that out to the girl. Yes! Can you do it? Yes! Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. My armpits! Yes. This is from actually local Los Angeles

designer May 68. Mr. Fred Siegel. Oh what May 68? Yeah. The girl who made the the collar shirt that says SSDG. Yeah she's good. And then that's it. It's a dress. It's a little tight. I had to take my bra off to zip it all the way up. That's what we're all about. Sacrificing foreshow business. That's what we do. You have noticed that bras are just to like fill out your outfit. So when somebody doesn't zip if you just take it off you don't need to fill it out anymore. God that hasn't been my experience in life.

What's so fucking ever? Tie it down. Oh here's my fucking outfit. It's called it's yes it's absolutely a show but it's here in Los Angeles and I like cashmere and I also couldn't find my tights. I have my show tights with the one pair that were made by the military and they're the Spanx that hold you in with nuclear fission. I couldn't find those. Yes or no. You use an entire roll of a lint roller backstage. I brought so much George and Frank with me tonight. My dogs are here in spirit and in hair.

I swear to god I was lint rolling this stupid fucking sweater for the entire time we were backstage the entire time and it was almost like that thing hit owners back me up. It's the thing where you start rolling and then more comes up and you're like you're like oh I just wanted those three gone. Now there's seven. Where are they coming from and why haven't I come out with my own line of dog hair sweaters? Yeah because it would just be so much easier.

You know what you gotta do? Pick your bra off and then everything fits. I do not think. Do you know that I have nightmares where I'm like at a party and I'm like this is a pretty good prop. I'm not wearing a bra. I've had that nightmare easily 50 times. Easily. Wait, hold on. Okay. Stephen you are here right? Yeah. Okay. Let people admire you. Thank you. Let's see that Mustang.

Did he get a folding chair? Oh Vince. All right if you're in folding chairs thank you so much. There's really nice classy chairs up front and then they're like we have to borrow some from the church down the street. We don't usually put people in the aisle wearing a rock fucking thing. Yeah. What are you doing? Usually I'm standing back there leaning hopefully leaning against the thing not seeing behind some tall fucking indie rockers. Oh wait. The tallest guys like music.

Truly and before out of my mind. Have you ever? I poked people in the back when they stand in front of me. They're truly tall. Yeah. Fuck you. You know what you're doing. Yeah. You know. Yo yum. Yeah. Because you can always poke and run or just slightly shift and then it looks like the dude's standing next to you poked him and they're like oh no a fight. Everybody get away. Get away a fight. Yes. I want to see a good fucking fight tonight you guys. There's anybody out there that's not feeling it with their neighbor.

Go ahead and express that through your fists. I would love it. TNT's like edit that part. Wait she can don't violent. She encouraged violence. So anyway thank you so much for being here tonight. We are so stoked. Honestly. Thank you guys especially because it's raining. You guys are heroes. Yeah you really are. We appreciate it. Because it wasn't just like sprinkle sprinkles. The ground gets wet. That cool smell comes up and then you walk around which is what Los Angeles thinks rain is. In a really cute jacket. You're like I

have a raincoat. Oh well I guess I'll wear my jacket from the 70s. Nope. This was like. Is that me? You're making fun of me. I'm celebrating it. You don't do this. I don't swing my leg like that. You don't. Yeah no I was just gonna say tonight is ugly. It's ugly rain gear weather and that is a huge sacrifice for our audience to come out. We know. It's hard to come out at all like when it's not raining. You have to be around other people. The grossest.

You're just like every time I go out now especially I'm just like I want to go to that party but if one person talks about running in front of me I swear to god I swear to god I can't do it. Not again and cafe. No way. All right let's sit down. All right. You guys didn't we were like this shows about Black Dahlia we do a show about it and I covered like three like very early in the podcast so a long time ago. Like two months ago. Some suspects but we haven't done the Black Dahlia so

it's kind of perfect. Did I just step on you trying to say there hasn't been a Black Dahlia around here for 25 years? I was going to say podcast around here. Edit it to make it sound good Stephen. Stephen put the private show filter on this because we're just it's so intimate. Lucy Goosey. Yeah we're gonna cover uh I'm gonna cover the Elizabeth Short aspect um so that by the time we show you so what's exciting is we get to show you the show um and before anybody else gets to see it because that's like one of the many

benefits of being in the fan cult is like now we're gonna try to make you all our plus ones for all this shit that we get to when people are like hey here's our thing and then we're like you guys come in here so maybe we should do like we should do a thing when we're still watching tv with everybody in public that would be really good just like okay does your show have a knife in it we'll all watch it yeah that sounds good only if you have a smattering of folding chairs though that's the only way we should do byo folding chairs absolutely um there's those people that have

the ones with the big pads oh yeah they come with just a big gorgeous kind of sometimes plaid pad you lost me plaid come on did you never play bingo in your life you're so not catholic i'm sick of it sick of it miracle mile i'm sorry i was forced to play bingo on a farm are you i'm not you shouldn't be because that sounds okay it's like it's the best kind that's the one where the cow shits on the number and then that's that's real not uh yes you don't know about this

it's like stuff they do at high school football games where it's like everybody gets a there's they put out a big grid on the football field with numbers no yeah and then the cow walks around and whatever number it shits on you win no i'm 26 oh my god are you fucking with me because you're the first time in my life making me glad i grew up in suburbia it's fully real okay yeah so i'm going to introduce you to the case itself um the it's so funny too because probably everybody in this room this this case is one of the most famous

cold cases in probably of this century um it's been talked about it's been theorized about there's been so many books written um and so there's so much uh kind of like espionage around it of like who was you know was someone crooked did people get bought off or people whatever um espionage was a russian spies what is the word i was trying to think of rumors no espion i think it was espion it was certainly not espionage that no what it's too late

tell me the word tell me the word speculation speculation you know uh what if we spend a half an hour just having every person guess let's go in order sit on the right word let us just like quickly lay it down 25 large words no come pick what you i know a word you're okay we'll think of it okay starting now um okay i got a lot of this research from of course as you would assume black dollia dot web and also there's a website by a guy named larry harnish uh and his

website is imharnish.com and uh he's the guy he is the beloved actually guy that i went to after i wrote everything up and it was like all the myths about this case that are not true which you have to do these days because everybody knows these stories so well knows the myths so well it's the reason i freaked out when i did jack the ripper in london because as i was talking i was like but that's probably not true and like the entire time i was like i think that's not true so um thank god for larry harnish

she put up this website and it's like that is a myth it is simply unproven and it's like a dude that's so pissed that gossip has kicked up around a like 70 year old cold case god bless you larry so here's the piece that i was trying to that i said i was so excited about and i hoped you didn't know okay it is 72 years to this night wait that the body of elizabeth short was found in lee mert park are you fucking kidding me

january 15th 1947 is when she was found it was the morning sorry it was the morning but that makes me feel a little less creepy does it no how did i not know that there is a possibility that some sharpie at tnt is like i know when we should do it and then as i'm typing it up i'm like oh my god that would make sense yeah okay now i'm glad it's raining right it's so creepy so crazy 72 years ago is when this all kicked off crazy um now i should go into one of those lists that you would

find at like a farmer's market where it's like here's all the things that happen elizabeth day in 1947 but i don't know bobby darin had the knife it's like that kind of shit i don't have that for you at all okay um elizabeth short is born on july 29th 1924 in boston massachusetts uh her parents moved to medford massachusetts um right it's such it's so gorgeous just a little bird um with her parents and her four sisters her father cleo what he does for a living he builds

miniature golf courses oh that's fun what a joyous life until the horrible stock market crash of 1929 when he loses everything and overnight they become poor you think that like a miniature golf course wouldn't have gotten like tangled up in the crash oh you wouldn't believe the dark money in miniature golf courses that's the next episode all the dirty mafia money that gets into building a huge dinosaur um so they go broke overnight a year later the father's his name's cleo but i feel like i need to say the father

his car is found abandoned on the charleston bridge the body is never recovered but everyone believes that it was a suicide elizabeth is six years old when this happens so yeah so her mom um phoebe may has to get a job as a bookkeeper and then they move into a smaller apartment and she basically it's her and uh her five daughters and she has to basically keep everybody afloat by herself holy crap yeah now on top of that elizabeth starts to develop lung problems so she has bad asthma and then she gets

bronchitis then she has to have lung surgery she ends up dropping out of high school sophomore years so the doctor recommends that elizabeth gets out of massachusetts during the winter which any doctor would recommend for anyone um and go down to miami for a warmer climate so she does that she goes and stays with family friends um okay so here is the first picture we have of elizabeth short and this is her in high school oh my goodness look it's cutie in 1942 ready for this twist to rude yes deeby's mother gets

an apology letter from her what she thought was dead husband no but it turned out old cleo just staged the suicide and moved on out to california to start over after the crash of 29 what a dick i mean he's like you know what this um stock market crash has hit me really hard so what i'm gonna do is leave my five daughters and wife and go ahead and make it on my own yeah i'm gonna make it easy on them by making them think i killed myself yes i'm just gonna put a layer of intense tragedy on the top of it and then good

luck this winter and also the one has consumption okay so uh he had gone out to california he moved to um mare island or he moved to leo and worked at mare island shipyard um which is nor cal yes um the leo a lot of zodiac activity around leo that's why you might might know that city i know it because it's about a half an hour away from my hometown and it's basically the part of the north bay that is one big marsh if you like marsh lands uh gnats mosquitoes um short puddles of still

water leo your next vacation needs to be a the way you need to head on up there's also a marine world with many trapped marine animals oh it sounds beautiful it is the place where all dreams die so elizabeth short who is a person who probably has some of the worst luck of anyone i've ever read about yeah she decides she tells her mom i'm gonna go live with dad she's 18 she's like i'm going to california so she goes to live with her father who the last time she saw him she was six so she's like it's gonna be so great he's a longshoreman

we'll get long fine for one second i really i was stoked because my grandfather was a longshoreman but he was a longshoreman in oakland but it was roughly the same time i bet they were friends that's what i was like having total liz short's dad and my grandpa fantasies and then i was like okay first of all what the fuck is wrong with you like take a walk um and also my grandpa did it in the 30s so it's a different time anyway so um in within a year she moves out of his house yeah so it doesn't work out great

she moves in uh with some friends in lombok uh two and a half hours north of LA here um and she gets a job at the base exchange at camp cook which is now vandenberg air force vandenberg sorry yes it's here for the air force they're here tonight they fall up in the balcony but that'd be amazing you turn around they're all they're in foreign song hey um okay that doesn't last long soon she decides to move to santa barbara

it's a nice place it's nice if you uh breathe golden retrievers but like i think for a 19 year old who keeps getting kicked out everywhere and has bad lungs it's not it's not a great starter city i would think fair especially in the 30s right it's the uh it's the it's the 40s because and here's how we know this is one of the more famous pictures of elizabeth short um while she's in santa barbara she gets arrested on september 23rd 1943 for underage drinking and that's when this

picture of her was taken yes get it girl right yeah every time i see a picture of her uh i want to get a perm because she has insanely amazing hair yeah yeah and also eyes that say why don't you go fuck yourself it's a suggestion you don't have to take it and that's my that's what i meant to um okay so she gets sent back to medford but to live with her mom but she's like here's the thing though i think i'm just going to go to miami so she skips out on medford and goes to miami

and there she meets major matthew gordon jr so he's a decorated army air force officer in the second air commando group and while they're dating she knows him for a couple years actually and while they're dating he gets deployed to the china berma india theater of operations in world war two um so major somebody from the military like god damn this i hate disrespect i hate that theater that was one of the worst so he gets deployed to major military action the end of world war two

she tells her friends that he's written our letter and proposed to her while he's over there um she writes back and accepts and oh he wrote the letter while he was recovering from his injuries from a crash um that he survived in india she accepts his proposal um and then uh on august 10th 1945 major borden is killed in a second plane crash oh man less than a week before the war ends oh god um that's rough sadder still here's here they are together happy i mean young and free

he's hot yeah it has amazing vision uh he could see everything okay so she's like like a kind of like a widow so young brokenhearted so she does all the broken heart and people in the world do she moves to los angeles so my heart is broken run yeah pick up the shit and make it work for me so sorry we didn't soundtrack that please don't clap for that but it's

no no i god damn you so july 1946 she moves to los angeles to visit army air force lieutenant joseph gordon thickling so she's found a new guy he's stationed at the navel reserve airbase at long beach she's gonna do the commute she's gonna do the long beach commute romance which it's yes so we all know so many great romances have happened up and down that highway it's a rough one you just want to keep your light you keep your eyes on that

that oil refinery out in the distance he better be worth this drive so you better have so many tattoos when i get there she already knew him she had dated him when she lived in florida so um is she is she was uh knew him and was into it like great let's try this again yes i'm out here la sucks i better go visit someone i know here's a hot tip though ladies um do not move around the country

for a man whose job it is to move around the country if you're already married god bless that's great move all the fuck around get new dishes everywhere you go not in the dating don't do a dating style it doesn't make sense now you're like i better go to santa barbara no okay good to know here's just a fun picture of uh lisma short on the beach with her friends that's the hair i'm talking about that's that's a fucking good hair yeah good head of hair so betty gets a job as a waitress

um when she gets to la she gets an apartment behind the florentine garden's nightclub which is on hollywood boulder yeah uh right a classic um there are rumors that she was she had dreams of becoming an actor um but she had no known credits which is meaningless she could have wanted to be an actor really bad and just never gotten a job like most of us here in los angeles um why are we basing anything on credits you can put anything on i and db that's how the internet works um they also said and this is kind this is something that happened after the fact

and obviously it's it reflects um how awful and vicious the press was back then i mean it was especially horrifying in the 30s and 40s where and it was of course the time we talk about all the time where like the press shows up at crime scenes at the same time as the police so they're like hey i just took a picture this if you want to get over here and get this taken care of there's a lot of that kind of action um so in the story of the black dollia she's often referred to um as like a non-working

actress um they say she dated a lot she went out with a lot of men they talk about her going out with married men that she drank it bars a lot that she had a lot of sex to that i say fucking good at least she got to have some fun truly i mean jesus christ um so okay so now we're up to the night she disappeared it's january 9th 1947 and she's just back from she'd just gone on a quick trip to san diego with a 25 year old married salesman um named robert red manly

um he claims that he dropped elizabeth off at the builtmore hotel in downtown l.a. um where she was planning to meet one of her sisters who had just flown in from boston um and members of the staff of the builtmore did recall seeing her there um on the lobby phone uh she was also reportedly seen at a nearby uh the nearby crown grill cocktail lounge soon after um six days later on the morning of january 15th 1947 a young housewife named betty bursinger is walking her three-year-old daughter up to the shoe

repair shop uh in lemur park um when she uh crosses the street she's going up and there's a bunch of um empty lots because there was a big a housing boom and then it all slowed down during the war and so there was like empty lots around they hadn't built the houses yet um and so she sees what she believes to be a mannequin um laying in the grass in the empty lot in front of her but the more steps she takes toward it the more she realizes it is not a mannequin it is the naked bisected exsanguinated mutilated and

explicitly posed body of a 22 year old woman betty bursinger screams grabs her daughter runs to a nearby house and calls the police and we have a picture of betty bursinger right there wow isn't that amazing yeah now this is not when she called the police that this is not january 15 1947 i mean she looks really calm for doing it she screamed it all out on the street yeah and now she is with hello hello is this the marie hill 25703 uh the two responding officers arrive they see what betty said was there they confirm that that is actually what's

happening and immediately call for backup which is doesn't surprise me at all um so when detectives arrive they actually start screaming because now all these people you know from the screaming and the hub of all these people have started gathering around and of course the press is there the second the police know the press knows so when the detectives come they have to actually like get everybody out of the crime scene people are walking around that vacant lot walking all around near the body and they have to clear the entire area so that they can um uh look at it

they can look at it thank you um okay so detective lieutenant jesse haskins who was um one of the those responding detectives he describes the condition of the body when he first arrived at the crime scene quote the body was lying with the head towards the north the feet towards the south the left leg was five inches west of the sidewalk the body was lying face up and the severed part was jogged over about 10 inches the upper half of the body um from the lower half

there was a tire track right up against the curbing and there was what appeared to be a possible bloody heel mark in the tire track and on the curbing which is very low there was one spot of blood and there was an empty paper cement sack laying in the driveway and it also had a spot of blood on it it had then brought there from another location the body was clean and appeared to have been washed okay so i'm going to show you the least bad crime scene photo from this murder uh if you choose to go online

and look at black delia crime scene photos don't do that yeah yeah many of you already have you're like it's too late it's burned into my brain i can see it when i close my eyes yeah there's some of the worst most horrifying pictures and also most um uh like debasing pictures i've ever seen and so this one is if you are a squeamish in any way staff anybody people that don't want to be here tonight please

look away so this is one of the more famous pictures and the problem with this picture is the longer you look at it you realize that's too long of a body and you start to kind of be able to put together what's happening underneath that blanket so from the side this doesn't look too crazy but on the top you see that the the top of the body is all the way next to the bottom of the body so it looks it's it's very upsetting it's definitely the one i saw as a kid

and was like what the fuck this one or that bad one this one yes yeah yeah where it's the kind of like what's wrong with this picture where you're like it's i get it it's a murder scene and then you're kind of the more you look at it you're like this is bad okay the thank you can i take it down there's also it's it's a bummer because there's a lot of people that just for you know the horror comparison have done side by sides with a picture of her beautiful face when she was alive and then the picture of her from the autopsy of the way her face

because her face was terribly mutilated as many people know and that also just be careful please be careful with these pictures out there they're awful so the body went to the morgue for the coroner to examine he reports the body's five feet five inches tall she weighs 115 pounds she has light blue eyes brown hair and badly decayed teeth there are ligature marks on her ankles wrists and neck and in a regular laceration with superficial tissue loss on her right

breast she has superficial lacerations on the right forearm the left upper arm and the lower left side of the chest she has multiple lacerations on the face and head including and this is the very infamous part he cut a three inch long gash on the right side of her face and a two and a half inch long gash on the left side of her face so as to cut a big smile into her face and there's also noted bruising on the front and right side of her scalp with a small amount of

bleeding in this in the subarachnoid space in on the right side which is consistent to blows on the head so contrary to popular belief and this is something I thought was total like thank you oh man the most basic words I'm here for you espionage fat can't do any of it um her hair had not been washed and set which is something I heard and always believed it had been washed though and it was so wet I read that's not true no her body had been washed and I think

that's how that um got because also this was that time where it was like um the press was so exploitative yeah they would write anything and they say that a lot of those stories got started by the you know basically the facts getting spun out so her the body had been washed clean so they couldn't find any fluids there's no sperm found on the body her pubic hair had been removed there were numerous cuts and crisscross patterns across her pubic area and most luckily and thank god most of her injuries

are believed to have been sustained post-mortem although because of the ligature marks they do know that she was tortured for days um the official cause of death was hemorrhage and shock um and it didn't go unnoticed uh that the bisection of the body was a clean professional job in sworn testimony before the los angeles county grand jury detective harry hanson said he believed the bisection was done by quote a very fine surgeon so it was it was a the cut was not um you know vicious it didn't it was all very clean and precise and done uh like

a medical procedure um so they basically have to because they don't she's an unknown person there's nothing on her person at all so they have to take fingerprints um they take fingerprints off her hand they send them to um the fbi in washington and that's when they identify her as elizabeth short of medford massachusetts um so there are rumors there's a lot of different rumors about how the black dahlia got named um some people say that there were people in a soda shop and it was basically just they made it up in a soda shop

um there are people certain reporters of the time claimed to have named her um the the one i like to believe is because i really love aggy underwood who is the um she was a city desk editor and and one of the first um newspaper uh you know like city desk editors in the country and um she was one of the first true or crime reporters on the scene and they say that she had her photographer run out and go buy a flower so she could leave it there and then be like it's the black dahlia like she basically saw the body knew was

going to be this huge story that wasn't going to go away and knew that like a nickname should be coined um you know there's not proof for any of those but i vote for the third um other new there were other newspapers though that named it the werewolf murder because she was attacked so viciously and terribly um and that didn't stick it was it's in uh there's in a couple articles that i saw that described it that way um so then once she's identified the police go around and they start talking to all the possible eyewitnesses from the night

that she disappeared um and they then release this special police bulletin and so this is basically to find out anything else any other information that they can get on Elizabeth short um and then it reads last scene january 9th when she got out of a car at the Biltmore hotel at that time she was wearing a black suit no collar on coat white fluffy blouse black suede high heels nylon stockings white gloves a full-length beige coat carrying a plastic handbag with two handles in which she had

a black address book subject readily makes friends with both sexes and frequented cocktail bars and night spots me too is that in there for seriously yeah um leaving the car she went into the lobby of the Biltmore and was last seen there in conversation subject readily identified herself as elizabeth or beth short um okay so when when the press then hit they the stories got crazier and worse news items would describe her as a con artist a drifter a tease a party girl and a prostitute but the final report given at the

los angeles grand jury stated explicitly that she was not a sex worker of any kind um or an actor um same death of the eight or so four actors like come on my auditions um of the eight or so uh headlines that i looked at um only one of them did not mention her sexuality or her like sexual uh it was it was always party girl um that or they talked about her dating married men in like in the picture it would be like girl murder 22 year old girl murdered

but then the the little writing under the picture was just basically like she loves to party exactly that slut shaming opportunity is super crazy uh to read that now the only one that didn't do that was a newspaper from boston area and they called her their hometown girl which is yeah very sad and what she deserved of course the story is huge and there's so many reporters on it william randolph hurst had so many reporters he was just like paying anybody to get any information that they could and so he then sets up a deal

with the la pd where he's saying i will share the information they find with you um if you give a let us break all the stories so you have to give us information you find out back and then we get to break these stories so there was a lot of press and a lot of police directed press along the way um because of that deal and i sure a lot of people got paid off to a lot of the like um everyone everyone's getting paid sure okay this is for horrible so there was a reporter at the herald express

who it was his job to find um elizabeth short's mother in medford oh i know this one yeah it's so awful and he he finds her and he goes to call her but he wants about a scoop about what the family's like and what she was like when she was growing up and what her life is like and he knows that if he leads that phone call by saying your daughter has been terribly murdered that the mother's going to start crying and not get off the phone so instead he says your daughter has won a beauty contest

and then this is short goes on to hold forth about how lovely her daughter is and how she's playing her mind yeah like he milked her for information got the story and then told her and she was so shocked and so in disbelief that they actually had to call the medford police and send police to her apartment so that she would believe that the news was true because she was just like this can't be true um yeah and maybe she was just like i can't believe a fucking reporter would do something that gross

that's the worst thing ever really yeah um so so on january 23rd eight days after the body has been found a man claiming to be the killer calls the editor of the examiner and he says that he's going to mail them elizabeth short's belongings so the next day a package arrives and it's it contains her birth certificate business cards an address book photos and a letter um that the killer supposed killer wrote with the individual cut out letters and words

like this like our logo like our logo and it says here are dahlia's belongings um and then here are dahlia's belongings so that's the letter and then those are personal pictures over there that's a telegram that she got there's like postcards in there that's her birth certificate so it's almost like as if someone stole her purse and just sent all that or like maybe her suitcase or something yeah okay yeah holy crap so whoever this person whoever sent it um you know clearly either was the killer or was right there in it and also they

couldn't get any fingerprints off of any of the stuff because it was all coated in gasoline so they yeah they couldn't trace it um at all so essentially there are over 150 suspects questioned um and many more false confessions were made there was a bunch of letters sent like that you can see them online too where people are just sending in words cut out that say like don't try to find the eye-kilter and all the suburbs like then don't fucking send the letter um but there was a $10,000 reward for

information that would lead to the killer so everybody you know a lot of people are trying to get in the mix in um and the case essentially goes cold in 1950 there's a radio show called somebody knows which now i just read about it and now i want to listen to this show so bad because it was basically like the earliest version of unsolved mysteries like a radio version of it and they were they basically told the entire case and they were like if you know anything call this number holy shit um

to this day 72 years later this case is still unsolved and it is one of the most famous talked about and theorized murders of this century and that is the elizabeth short side of this wow i'm glad but it's awful you had to say all the fucked up things i mean and i didn't okay well so i'm going to talk to you guys about one of the main the suspect and when i first heard about this a long time ago i was like well shit he's not the fucking

and now i kind of think he totally did it you really i after researching this i'm like this is him really yes so this is and okay let me here we go i got a lot of information from the guardian of a woman named alexis sobel fits wrote this great article about it a lot of good info so here let's go to 1999 here we are uh a former i have really thin eyebrows oh my god yeah like speed plopped eyebrows like you wouldn't believe yeah a pierced fucking lip that's gonna be a scar for the rest of my life and i'm standing here at an old 97s

concert crying because of beer yeah for me was at the drive-in because i was emo okay okay where were we oh yes 99 former la pd homicide detective named steve hodell he uh he finds himself sorting through his late father's belongings his dad is dr. jord hodell steven never steven had never been close with his father that's not true that's not true um his dad had a ban in the georgia to ban the family

shortly after steve's ninth birthday and he'd been married five times had 11 children between all those fucking wives truly and um so we probably didn't have a lot of private time to spend with each of those kids i'm guessing so steve was one of the ones that he whatever every two weeks you got to go to the park with him yeah for five minutes yeah so so steve ex-la la pd homicide detective's gone through a trashet he finds an old photo album tucked away in a box and in the back of the album

there's two pictures of a young woman that catches his eye and the photos are portraits of a beautiful woman with really dark black curly hair really fair skin um and when steve saw the photos having no understanding of what's to come just immediately was like that looks like the black dolly uh immediately um so he starts to look into his father's dark past and becomes convinced that he killed elizabeth short so he writes a book called the black dolly avenger

edginess for murder um in which he studies the case from scratch reading witness interviews reading news to he like fucking he's a homicide detective any homicide detectives this case uh all over it he just goes to town yeah he's like hearing my skills i'm gonna use him um he files a freedom of information act to retreat the fbi files on the murder which i just want to sit there and read forever and um all this other information that was collected on his fucking shady dad so that'd be insane i know to read an fbi file about your dad

marty what do you think uh grass grass grass that's about it no urban camping and weed sorry dad um my dad just like he's drinking he's drank a whole the whole country's worth of budweiser just so much budweiser oh sorry really quick we've already said this but we're showing you the pilot of the show but we also have a special guest that's coming out after the pilot right um that we're very very excited to talk to so i just that just popped into my head i wanted to make sure you knew good idea okay good call right okay so here he is a homicide

detective uh he files freedom blah blah blah okay when the book is complete in the early 2000s like 2003 he sends a copy of the book to a columnist at the la time named Steve Lopez Steve Lopez is like okay i'm gonna write a column about this but i don't want to be lying so i'm gonna fact check it um and he asked the los angeles county district attorney's office for more information on the murder um and the da's office gives Lopez access to a file that lieutenant frank jennison one of the original officers

investigating the murder had left behind in a safe in the basement of the district's attorney's office so this fucking thing had been hidden since like 1950 yes and in 2003 or four somebody knows this is Steve Lopez is the luckiest murderino alive for real when he gets fucking past this thing how he's like 16 left there would your heart would just be racing as you open that safe amazing might have a key i'm thinking of a high school locker i'm sorry they probably have more advanced system there

i didn't know what you were counting i was just agreeing i thought you went like files 16 files okay didn't you couldn't tell from my space work that that was an up and down high school locker safe okay it was like a whatever the file contains photographs news paper clippings and several hundred pages of typed interview notes on the case compiled by this jennison fellow and in the notes Steve Lopez finds something that he's not expecting

it's the Los Angeles police department was focused on six suspects six main suspects they whittled it down in the black deli investigation and on the top of that fucking list is steve's dad george hodell can you imagine what if you saw that picture of dad's name on the top of the fucking shit marty hardstark no here's a picture of marty hardstark no here's the here's a picture of george hodell oh immediately he did it steven steven do you see this is an intervention for steven's mustache

what i'm saying is you got to bring it in on the sides a little bit i mean talk about creepy he also looks like he could own a great italian restaurant oh yeah like i want to say he has dead eyes and the thing i always like to say about killers yeah but there is something about him that's like uh we clams casino there's a real clams casino feeling about this guy yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah all right okay so that's him and then okay so dude who who is this dude

i wrote who is this dude so dr george hill hodell junior was born in october 1900 fucking oh i know he was raised in south pasadena uh he was where all the bad ones come from yeah um you know yeah upscale family i don't remember the word for it uh he's super smart yes there are no uh miracle mile family oh the word zespinage that's right right he scores 186 on an IQ test when he's like young which is fucking high you guys and uh is it

what's the highest i think that's pretty close i think it's like i don't know it's out there average is like 105 really fucking smart is 130 oh right we've all taken them at the boring desk jobs right and they're really disappointed by our number anyone i was a genius right i really thought i was smart when you realize you're an average person it's a really disappointing moment in your life not for me i got 150 but there's nothing and also there's nothing sadder for a person who lived

before the internet existed and told lie upon lie everywhere they went and then the internet came out people like no that's not true like i looked it up right there you're like oh i'm just trying to pass some stuff along oh he's also a musical prodigy he's a smarty pants he graduates high school at 15 goes to caltech in pasadena but is forced to leave the university after a year due to a fucking sex scandal involving a professor's wife who he gets pregnant whoa yeah as a student yeah and he's

remember graduated at 15 sorry so he's 16 yeah so he's always not really that's illegal so um wow he's got right to it yeah so he gets out of that job eventually he uh he does become a reporter and he becomes one of those reporters going to crime scenes with cops that we talked about what yeah he's like one of those for a while eventually he goes and gets a pre-med degree at the University of California Berkeley and is later um the highly-acclaimed university california

san francisco school of medicine he becomes a surgeon um you almost did that like people would fall for it that that was really happening in the room calm down everybody it's not that scary they got really into that part um he eventually uh he's a surgeon eventually specializing in sexually transmitted diseases and he actually did that for the city so uh he was really into inner circles in the city

okay okay we'll get to why that's important okay in 1945 George his name is comes under suspicion um for the murder of a secretary Ruth Spaulding she died of a drug overdose but George was suspected of having murdered her in order to cover up his financial fraud but it isn't until october 1949 that he comes under police scrutiny for the black dolly at murder so he had this crazy insane awful sex scandal and trial which it's

i don't want to it's a spoiler alert in the show so i'm not gonna go into it it's a fucking story of its own and he's a monster um and this is when the LAPD starts investigating so they're investigating all known suspected or suspected sex criminals at this time for the murder so he's in on that because of this trial okay so they're like what's up with him well his medical degree made him a good suspect of course because um it was uh hypothesized that whoever bisected Elizabeth Schwartz's body had some

degree of surgical skill and it shows that um she she had been given a did you say it had the correct me yes i did i said it a couple times i just kept saying it i wasn't paying attention so is that the thing about the overings no this is the thing where um because that's a myth oh the overings it's a procedure that slices the body beneath the lumbar spine the only spot where the body can be severed in half without breaking a bone oh right so that's the name of the way he bisected her

there's an actual medical procedure that is taught that's called whatever the fuck you just said refuse to say it again which is why people initially thought it was a surgeon because it's like something that is taught right and it was taught in the 1930s when George had been in medical school all right so so uh he lives in the john sodan house which is also known as the franklin house which you guys if you're since you're from la you fucking know this insane house when you're driving at franklin towards los fielas

there's suddenly this like Mayan temple happening in those really expensive houses on the left and you're like what the fuck is that well um it's actually was um it's uh was built in 1926 in um los los fielas by Lloyd Wright who was the eldest son of frank Lloyd Wright that's gotta be a bummer to be named to be named that and then become a and you're like I don't like these blueprints that much do you have any of your dad's stuff so bad oh I didn't want that Lloyd Wright I didn't want this Mayan temple I know um so yeah okay here's here's it

you know you've seen it crazy amazing so good dying to go in there yes we've got to and it's right by the los fielas murder mansion too creepy again okay we just do not want every door in those fielas and be like this is also a creepy house what's going on in here yeah like anyone just some light math don't worry about it everyone knows that south of franklin north of franklin it's just the old-timey suspicious murders okay so George the Dr. George is friends with a lot of celebrities

and he throws these crazy extravagant drug-fueled parties like always happened in the 40s that you read about sex parties you know swinger shit and then a lot of elite angelinos and Hollywood stars I wrote that no I didn't happy to paste it um so friends like john houston and um he was good friends with artist man ray who was also the family's photographer so they all hung out at the house all the time wow yeah so uh they they the task force bugs his house um in february 1950 for a month they just I think probably pretty illegally just

fucking wired that house up and listened to it down the street in a basement truly um and then so what the bugging is revealed among other things was that uh he he is doing illegal abortions which were felony at the time and giving payoffs to law enforcement officials I think because of that and um also they get some uh some suspected talkings of his possible involvement in the depth of his secretary analyst this short whoa so here's what he says suppose I did kill the black dollia they can't prove it now

they can't talk to my secretary anymore because she's dead they thought there was something fishy anyway now they may have figured it out killed her maybe I did kill my secretary it's like straight up uh who's he talking to who's on the other side of that monologue I don't know there's just like a maid like uh huh well I'm done here doctor I'm just gonna back out slowly like a crap I'm just gonna cramp off the fuck out of this

Mayan temple and never come back um so his secretary Ruth Spaulding and we've talked about so police hadn't suspected him uh George of murdering her in 1945 and because he was present when she fucking overdosed and then right after I burned some of her papers before the police were called red fucking flat guy do you know was sorry to ask this was that also in that house I think yeah he lived there in 1945 to 1950 so I think so what I mean let her death happen there I it might have been at his office I don't know

haunted as fuck yes for real so the cases dropped due to lack of evidence or it does he pay it off pay it off mm-hmm but documents are later found that indicate that she uh that his secretary got to be publicly accused George uh Hodel of intentionally misdiagnosing patients and billing them for uh laboratory tests medical treatments and prescriptions not needed so he was a shady doctor wow our friend Steve his son uh believes that short may have been one of his father's

patients and he did run a venereal disease clinic in downtown Los Angeles where she where the Biltmore Hotel was not that's I don't know if it was anywhere near that I'm not trying to say it within the Biltmore I think the Biltmore had a vd clinic right next to that famous bar yes the idea that they're just going to connect a vd clinic to it is the thing that sells the most paper right but this but I think it went away well I don't know let's fight about it I just wish we could fight about it

oh this is the fight you want to see so bad yeah this is it this is the fist fight it's just I start crying and then you start crying and then we have to do John L Sullivan style just stand over here for 20 minutes um so uh in the recordings there's also audio of it's quiet quiet quiet then a woman screams loudly twice and then it's and it sounds like it's coming from the basement the end of the fucking screaming is on the coughs audio recording yeah uh I know um so for his book

see Steve sent sent the photographs that he was like I found these in my dad's shit this is the Black Dahlia to a facial recognition expert um so one of them the facial recognition expert was like it's not her and the other one it's inconclusive so here that was I think that's the one that's inconclusive because it looks I could see that one but I might be that it's not her I know I know that's not that's why I was like it's not him initially it's I mean I think it's two different

women well yes also I think he had a women issue yes so no that he fucking totally did yeah so he could have pictures of anybody it doesn't disprove that he didn't kill a little short yeah not to slut shame him but he was a perverted sex he's not involved everybody all right so that's probably not her but but there's other shit um the letters sent to the press and police from the Black Dahlia Avenger which is what he called himself a man claiming to be the killer had a resemblance to his dad's handwriting

and handwriting expert determined that there was a strong likelihood that his father's handwriting matched the script on some of the notes and in the archives of UCLA Steve found a folder containing receipts for contracting work on his childhood home the fuck in Mayan temple okay the receipt showed that a purchase was made a few days before Elizabeth Schwartz's murder of 10 five pound bags of cement uh-oh the same size and brand found near her body that you just mentioned yes there's a there was a bag there's a cement bag in the driveway next to the

body with a drop of blood on drop of blood on it that's right but so they think that the killer used I'm restating that like I'm the one that discovered this in school years 72 years later yeah I put it together you said cement and I also said cement therefore I solve this crime thank you good job so Steve also found a report from the grand jury from 1951 where Lieutenant Frank Jemisin says that one of George's so-called rumors so he had like people stay at his house all the time because it's amazing

um identified Elizabeth Schwartz as one of his girlfriends but it's sketchy this woman Lillian said that George spent time around the Biltmore Hotel as well whatever okay then he's friends with this dude man Ray our fucking friend who's not our friend in 1934 this is just a tidbit but this is one of his paintings or photographs okay and that's like his good friend but doesn't it look like it's posed the way at the top of her yes okay because her arms were yeah yeah you're not buying it okay well no sorry because the way you set that up

I thought it was going to be body that had the top half here and the bottom half here oh no that would be amazing I was going to scream directly into this microphone I mean there's another painting too because that they're like it's the same and it didn't it was so not that I didn't post it but whatever I mean I beg you though at this point Steve Hodel that's looking into his own father yeah who already probably knows his dad's a creep just by firsthand experience every single thing he's picking up is like holy shit to be connected

yeah you would be that way because there's enough there's plenty there anyway there is yeah um so by 1950 Lieutenant Jemisin believed that he'd gathered enough evidence to charge Dr. Hodel he was allegedly about to arrest him for the for Elizabeth Schwartzmarter when fucking Hodel skipped town without his family abandoning Steve here where he moved to the Philippines and he lived there for the next 40 years no extradition from the old Philippines they didn't have enough fucking evidence

oh right so investigators did think that they believed that the case was solved and that he was the killer a lot of them did but they didn't have enough evidence to go to trial but Steve doesn't think his father was ever going to be arrested since he had protection in the form of insider knowledge and dirt on higher ups since he reportedly ran a high-end abortion business which was a felony back then so he was privy to all these sexual disease histories as well of the rich and powerful and lost like he knew

he knew every dirty secret he had a lot of shit on a lot of people yeah including props props prosecutors celebrities so he could have used that as blackmail yeah and he also thinks that the sodon house is where Elizabeth was killed and her body surgically bisected there he thinks it's at that house and I think they found like a secret room or they think it's in the basement a police cadaver dog and soil analysis test conducted in 2014 by a forensic anthropologist confirms that the soil samples from the rear of the

residence were quote specific for human remains oh but it was like it was like recorded for a ghost hunting tv show take that as you will if you wear big necklaces you'll believe this those guys love a big necklace they love the dark that's right and big necklaces uh another mysterious case okay wait but i'm that is huge in and of itself yeah you don't that human remains in your backyard is not right i guess it wasn't it wasn't big enough for the la p to actually excavate or anything like that so who

knows they would have to find something right yeah right so there's another mysterious case that of um gene spangler she was an actress who disappeared on the evening of october 7th 1949 um the night of her disappearance she told her sister-in-law that she was going to meet with her ex before going to work um as an extra on a film set been there it's very depressing uh two days later her tattered purse is discovered near the fernbell entrance of girtheth park which i

google map for you guys and it's less than a mile from the southern house um and inside her purse was a letter that read kirk can't wait any longer going to see dr scott so they think that uh that she had gone to get an abortion possibly and you know people who think that he killed elizabeth short think that he killed her too um and it would make sense if he went under a false name probably right right so okay all right so then recently on october 20th no wait in october 2018 would just happen there was a handwritten letter

found by a dead undercover informant for the la pd during the 1940s his name was w glenn martin his granddaughter finds this letter that he wrote that was that said don't open unless something that happens to my teenage daughters essentially and then when she opens it the the letter that had been written on october 25th 1948 said that this someone with the initials gh george hodell or george hardstark it could be either um was the was the murderer and that he had been

a um a undercover informant who was friends with george and sorry that was a sealed letter uh huh wow and so although you can steam open and reseal letters truly yeah i mean i still love it if it's true it's fucking fascinating yes it is so he was so scared that george had found out that he was an informant that he wrote this letter that said if anything happens to my daughters because he think he was thinking that it's his daughters get killed in um you know as a griffith park

retribution yes um yeah open it and i'll tell everything anyways everyone thinks he did it nobody thinks he did it depending on what article you read um let's see okay and so um so basically this this show that we're about to watch is i didn't realize this talk is doing research it's based on the memoir called one day she'll darken and it's written by the real granddaughter of this fucking psychopath and she also create uh is credited as a writer for all six

for all six episodes so this is just this crazy fucking story and it's all kind of true and real yeah you know and for hollywood in hollywood ways and it's really fascinating yeah so the people that were they're about to show you this episode now and um you guys probably know most of this but the the the young girl that this episode is like basically based on is actually um is it flora fauna fauna damn it fauna you were so close damn it um and that so that's george

hodell yes and then so we're going to watch the show now that like kind of is delves right into us so excited we're really excited and just for general general information um this show is directed by patty jankins you're directed wonder woman um it has got an all-star cast including for all you pine nuts out there chris pine is the star um and we're super excited that we get to show it to you tonight so please enjoy and afterwards we're gonna come out real quick and have a q and a with someone from not a q and a we're gonna

interview right uh it's gonna be fun we'll be back how fun we're gonna watch this with you guys yes i am the night episode one i am the night on tnt and it's a secret only you guys have seen it don't tell people word for word exactly what happened in that episode on the internet so we're very excited because we have the actor who played dr george hodell yes the creep at the bus station um the amazingly talented mr jefferson maize is here with us tonight

should we sit yes you sit in the middle yeah yeah thanks for being here that was should we move forward and find our light yeah let's find our light come on you're a broadway guy you know that stuff so that was incredible and you played george hodell how much of like did you know about him before i knew very little and i alas i had seen the crime scene photos of the uh of the what hemi corporectomy uh huh you know how to pronounce that and um

so that was that was it and then i delved into steven hodell's memoir of his father um and uh but it was it's very odd because we never had the entire series at our disposal we were just given one script at a time so i never knew what was going to happen next it was kind of like life i guess it is a lot like that so you basically were just responsible for dr hodell and the scenes that were right just the scenes that were immediately before me so i had no idea what twists and turns the series would take amazing and what would you

say this is like a cheesy talk show question but what was like was there a creepy um aspect to playing him or is there part of it that bothered you strangely no because no when you're playing a villain um they don't think they're villainous they think they're uh behaving reasonably and uh with a sense of entitlement and it's everyone else who has the problem yeah so um so there's a wonderful feeling of liberation by being sort of evil all day and it makes you a much nicer person in life i think um and did you guys shoot

in the sodan house we did and that was a revelation i mean to be in uh the house where your character lived and and did all sorts of things um that never happens very rarely um and that house uh is an extraordinary place um as you said is based on a mayan temple but it's like approaching a monster the the doorways like this gaping maw and and it's utterly eyeless there are no windows in it and it's soundproof you can't hear anything nobody can hear you scream that's not a good sign

no that's not a good thing and then you're literally swallowed up into it and then taken suddenly to the right in this dark passage it's like being swallowed by a whale and then you're disgorged into the middle of it where there's this big uh courtyard and all of the rooms of the house are arranged like cells it's like a cell block and um it is the house of a control freak and that was the biggest uh revelation and there are places you can stand in the house and see everything you can see out under franklin street and be utterly

invisible behind a parapet and uh so i i did feel like i was uh in one of those 18th century panopticons you know all these prisoners and were there any i mean i was led to ask questions like this but did you get bad vibes in any certain areas i expected to but i i felt strangely comfortable it felt it felt like i don't know how to do with the character or anything but it felt kind of peaceful and lovely but there was a beautiful little shrine to elizabeth short in the back and some rather scary pictures with pentagrams

and things around which the current occupants had put up like a victim positive satanist lived there exactly awesome so they were charming people yeah some witchy shit going back there wow that's so creepy so we asked i asked you actually earlier today we get to talk and i asked you if you had a hometown murder um and then he told me about seven amazing stories but um the one that i think really qualified you is a

very early murderer you know was you told me one of your favorite a book you read it's a very uh it was a formative text uh wisconsin death trip do you know of that thank you it's it's an amazing book but it's a it's a collection of of it's a treasure trove of photographs taken in and run black falls wisconsin i think in the 19th century undeveloped prints uh negatives they found and uh and they're very odd i remember as a child being utterly gripped by funerary portraiture

of all these dead babies in christening dresses crammed into their coffins you know standing upright with their little eyes you know half open um and that i can't i still can't get those images out of my mind but coupled with it were these wonderful like true crime haikus um which were newspaper clippings from the local paper with various you know murders madnesses and mayans you know chronicled locally yeah but wonderfully terse and dispassionate

sort of Scandinavian hired girl you know murders all the children of the fire axe burns the house with the horses down and the parents discover her laughing in her nighty in the snow when they come back and that's it yeah just the basics but then to a child's imagination you sort of go from there but how old were you um i was seven i was seven Wisconsin death trip we gotta check the Wisconsin death trip there was a Dr. Seuss it was ha ha on top the Wisconsin death trip

that's incredible um and how was it to work with Patty Jenkins oh she's a dream yeah and oddly i mean given the seriousness and morbid nature of this subject matter it was a it was just a joyful experience there was lots of laughter and um and shenanigans and i guess when you're doing something like that you have to laugh we do yeah you gotta you gotta lighten the mood somehow it's like you want to talk about it but you also have to be like yeah release the pressure a little bit because it's

it's the worst of humanity yeah i mean this this man you played is probably one of the worst people that's ever existed i guess i sat upstairs listening to you and i just feeling so bad about myself because you try to detach yourself from that while you're doing it yeah oh you um had a good story about when you guys were shooting at a different location in LA oh that's right we were at the graystone mansion which you've done a abyss on yes do he need murder and that that is an unclean place

truly and i'm not given to you know getting spooky but but that was and we had an actual haunting happen in which during one of the scenes this inexplicable little white light appeared on the monitor and then on the film but it wasn't like a mote of dust and it wasn't some irregularity in the apparatus it had its own independent trajectory and it would sort of angularly float around the scene and behind a character's head and it happened twice and we'd watch it again and again

but then the sound man who had done uh there would be blood there had left a microphone on all night in an upstairs hallway and around 1.15 in the morning the you know the audio wave display when he was looking at it the next morning just started striking wildly and he listened to it and and and let me listen to it and you can hear the sort of of the hard drive of the of the machine and then all of a sudden there's this explosive cacophony of of of superhuman slams and

bangs and crashes i mean and then he went up the next morning and of course nothing had stirred there was a you know a layer of dust over everything nothing had happened but there was this this audio effect you know it was truly it was chilling you know your energy yeah and you can feel it palpably there i think i would have quit the whole show at that point like now can we check my contracts yeah we need to get out of here is there a haunting clause in there um well thank you so much for being here

with us tonight thank you enjoy the rest thank you very much can't wait to see your character yes oh my god my character gets busier later on i was going to ask uh was it your personal choice when we first saw you at the bus stop um to pronounce it loves Emily's yeah when the first time i watched it i laughed out loud alone in my house well they did there was this sort of movement back then to say it that way oh really yeah it's sort of short lived but i thought i would resurrect it you know i thought you were kind of trying

to indicate this guy's kind of a dick and there was a certain of dickishness and we're going to start using that from now on i think yes and here in lachandel that's right yes um well amazing thank you so much thank you so much thank you guys all for being here with us tonight and this has been an amazing such amazing show thank you so much tnt for asking us to do this with you um and we're so excited to see the rest of the series we hope you guys are too um so thank you for being here and as we

like to say at the end of every show stay sexy and don't get murdered bye you guys thank you what makes a person a murderer are they born to kill or are they made to kill i'm kandace delong and on my new podcast killer psyche daily i share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news i have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse

fbi agent and criminal profiler on killer psyche daily i'll give you insight into cases like ryan grantham and the newly arrested stockton serial killer i'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at quantico answer some killer trivia and even host virtual q and a's where i'll answer your burning questions hey prime members listen to the amazon music exclusive podcast

killer psyche daily in the amazon music app download the app today