My First Million - 3rd Richest Man In The World, Team Zuck, and MrBeast's Best Biz

Episode Date: September 13, 2022

Episode 361: Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about the newly named third richest man in the world, being on team Zuckerberg, and MrBeast's best business idea. ----- Links: * Donda.org * Gautum Adani * beehiiv * Shopify * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (02:15) - Kanye vs Addidas (08:55) - Billy of the Week / Gautum Adani (22:30) - MrBeast's Translation Business (28:50) - Turning a cost center into a profit center (44:20) - Zuck fighting MMA ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Do you know about a certain man named Gotham Adani? Have you ever heard this name before? I don't remember. What's his schick? So Adani just became, this guy just became the third richest man in the world. And so you have- Yes, the Indian guy from, he's kind of like a, and he owns like the huge mansion in downtown like Mumbai where like it's like a skyscraper.

Yeah. So he, so he, Elon Musk number one, Jeff Bezos number two, and now Adani number three. And so people, they watch. this list and they're like, who's, who is Adani? All right, in this episode, we're talking about the third richest man in the world, somebody who you've never heard of. We talked about Team Zuck. So basically Zuckberg has this new video of him doing an MMA and we did a little recap

on how we feel about it. But also we kind of looked at how he makes his decisions and what our perspective is on him. And I actually think it's quite interesting. We broke down one of Mr. Bees, to me, the most interesting business that Mr. Bees has that nobody else is really talking about. And I think is low-key a start. our business. So that's the episode. Give it a listen. Let us know what you think. And right in the comments, go on YouTube, write in the comments. I'll be replying to every single comment that's in here

with something that's either smart or funny. I guarantee it. Go to the comments and leave one and I'll reply. All right. I have a fun one. This will get us in the mood. So Kanye West, pop culturey. Do you follow Kanye? Of course. I don't really pay attention to Kanye West, really. It's not really on my radar, but he did something kind of funny, and we talked about him yesterday, and it's business related. But basically, you know, he's having this like Tizzy with Adidas. Do you know about that? No, and nice use of Tizzy. You like that? Well, and frankly, I don't entirely know about it, so I'm just going to kind of like summarize, but basically, you know, Kanye worked with Adidas to launch Yeezys, his line of shoes. It's collectively made,

like, or not collectively, but in 2020, Yeezy sales were $1.17 billion in revenue. he made around $200 million from that. So he made a lot of money. And basically he's having a fight with them. I don't actually know what the fight is about. But the backstory is that he's accused them of stealing his designs and leaving him out of meetings for their easy shoe collaborations. Sean Combs, you know, Ditty said he's going to boycott because of this.

And Kanye has said, I'm going to make things unbearable for you guys until you comply. So I don't exactly know what comply means. But it's kind of, it's both sad because like it looks like he's going through some stuff. And it is funny and he's kind of trying to be funny and it's working. But he basically said, I've got no chill. It's going to cost you guys billions to keep me. It's going to cost you billions to let me go, Adidas. You stole my design among other things.

And I'll give you till Tuesday. Not until the seven months that I told you originally I was going to give you. Today's the day. Like he went like he's going crazy. And on his Twitter, which he's got like, I don't know how many followers, tens of millions, I would imagine. He's posting each person's pitch. picture who's on the board of directors as well as a couple other boards. Like they have a board

of advisories of Adidas's people. And so he posted this one woman who's also and he's like, it'll say stuff about him. Like sometimes it's funny. But sometimes it's like, this woman's on the board of Adidas. She's also chairman and investment banker at J.P. Morgan. I went to J.P. Morgan in order to raise money for my buyout and they wouldn't do it. Like he's going kind of bananas. And I thought that that was wild. And then I saw another thing that he's, he's having another tizzy with his wife Kim or ex-wife about a school. And I went and looked at their school. Have you heard about this?

So he has his own school, right? Like he has his own academy or something like that. Yeah. So he's trying to start this thing called Donda. So danda.org. If you go there, it actually looks weird, but interesting and kind of fun. Like, it looks cool. And if you go to about on how we learn, you'll see, like, they describe the curriculum.

And it's like, it kind of makes sense. But then you see, like, weird things. Like, if you look at what the daily schedule, it says after school parkour. First of all, I went to the site, Donda.org. It's just like who we are, how we learn, admissions, and choir. Those are the top four links. Which of these does not belong? I don't know what choir is up here.

Secondly, there's just like a white, I don't even know what kind of, it looks like a white pigeon, to be honest with you. Just flapping its wings in slow mo. Okay, it's like a fat dove, though. It's not like a sleek, graceful dove. It's like a chunky dove. It's like a guinea pig, yeah. It's a guinea pig with wings that's just flying up in slow motion. And that's the website.

I'm going to click how we learn because I can't not. Okay, they got less than 12 students per class. Rule number one, students should be confident in forming ideas. If not, their writing will suffer. Okay. So their daily schedule, full school worship. Okay, that's a good way to say. start the day, similar to how we start the pod.

Yeah. Core classes, lunch and recess, enrichment classes, including film, choir, and you're right, parkour. A bunch of singing ninjas out here, just singing and flipping around. So I thought this was interesting because, you know, even though he's, I don't like laughing at him, a guy if he's going kind of insane, but he's trying to be funny with this Instagram thing. it kind of is hilarious. Like he posted like the guy,

I think the CEO of SAP or is it SAP? Yeah. The like the HR software that nobody actually understands what they do. He like tweeted out or Instagram did this guy's face and goes, you are a sap. That's what he said. And it just, it's just,

you should. All right. And he's just doing the most childish, immature thing. And it's so funny. is working. It's awesome. And then this school thing I saw because of his other little fight with Kim. And he's like, anyway, I don't know how this is related to business. But I thought that you would have know about this because you're more of a pop culture guy than I am. No, but let me tell you, okay, so this is, here's a theme for this episode. I'm going to call it people with giant egos.

Okay. No, I'm going to call it, because I don't actually know if these people have giant egos. I'm going to say creative titans. That's better. Creative Titans. So the first one is going to be my billy of the week. A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.

Do you know about a certain man named Gotham Adani? Have you ever heard this name before? I don't remember. What's his schick? So Adani just became, this guy just became the third richest man in the world. And so you- Yes, the Indian guy from, he's kind of like a,

and he owns like the huge mansion in downtown like Mumbai where like it's like a skyscraper. Yeah. So he, Elon Musk number one, Jeff Bezos number two and now Adani number three. And so people, they watch this list and they're like,

who's, who is Adani? And I actually, I don't know if I met him, but we definitely pitched him. I think my dad pitched him a business thing many years ago. My dad always kept saying,

oh, we just need to get Adani on board. Adani, Adani, Adani. And so I'd heard about this guy before. And I didn't, you know, and his net worth is just skyrocketed because his stock is up like 13x in the last. Is this Reliant Industries? No. So Reliance, it was the top kind of like company there.

And the guy who runs at Mukashamani was the, I think he was, he was the richest man in India. And now Adani has passed him up in the last year because his stock went up 13x. So who is this guy and what does he do? Okay. So what he does, you'll appreciate this. Is he a software guy? Is he a Mark Zuckerberg? No, no, he's not.

Is he Elon Musk? Is he trying to create the future of, you know, space travel and, you know, like brain computer interfaces? No. This guy operates in a place that Sam likes power. So he does coal, ports, plastics, you know, shit like that. So basically, this guy's like, they do, they do like industrial. work. And so he owns, so when he was a kid, he was in school, he went to go visit this port. It was the largest port in the country at the time, a port, you know, where literally like ships come in and out.

And he's like inspired by it. It was like, one day I'm going to own the biggest port ever. And the biggest port in India. And now he sure enough, he owns the biggest port in India. He owns the most ports in India, too. With the deal we were trying to do with him, we were trying to get Adani to come to Australia to build a port for our startup that was based in Australia. because these guys were the kings of ports. But his story is pretty cool. He's a college dropout, so 18 drops out. He becomes a diamond sorter. I don't even know what that means,

but he became a diamond sorter. He got an interest in the diamond business. And after a couple of years of sorting diamonds, he then goes in, he starts his own diamond brokerage. And he's like, I will trade. I will basically age of 20 as a diamond broker. Brother calls him up. Brother says, hey, brother,

I have a small plastic factory here that I own now. I bought or I run. And so he helps him go scale up the plastic factory. And then as he's doing that, he's like, oh, well, let's start importing the, like, the materials that come up, you know, upstream of plastics. And so he starts doing, he creates an export company. And so he just keeps creating these companies. So now he has seven publicly listed companies. He's got the Adani group, which is like the mega one.

And then they'll start like Adani Power, Adani, you know, like trading, Adani, real estate or whatever. They'll start all these different companies. They'll take them all public. And what's interesting about it is that. And he's got a beautiful mustache, by the way. Yeah, he looks like, you know the meme account, Dr. Park Patel? He looks like the meme account's photo, actually.

So I don't know if it's him or it just looks a lot like him. He looks like an Indian Mario. You know, like Mario and Luigi. He looks like an Indian Mario. Like, you know. he does you know when Mario does that little squat like you know when you want to you want to do that trick where you go behind the thing you're standing on

and you run and you get the magic blue he's like squatting he's a little squatty squatty version of Indian Mario so anyways this guy has now become you know whatever the third British man he's got these crazy stories he was I don't know if you know there was like this sort of like an Indian 9-11 thing where there's like a terrorist attack on a hotel he was in that hotel he was like in the hostage group that was there Wow.

He was also kidnapped at one point in time and taken ransom for $2 million. They paid it and got free. And so this guy has just lived this like kind of crazy life. And even now, he's doing really well. The group's doing really well. His third richest man on earth. There is a set of people who are very, very skeptical about what these guys are doing because they have so much debt in their companies. Like he is basically constantly trying to acquire companies.

Like they just bought the largest cement producer in India. But they buy these companies using debt and he's got this intricate, like, set of companies. And so there's a big question of like, is this all a house of cards that's going to fall over? And you're going to see a guy go from the number three richest to like, you know, falling off the list completely. Or is he actually going to pull this off? Because what they'll do is they'll say, okay, the parent company has some profits. We'll take a loan on that. And then they take like one of the new companies public, like, oh, Adani Green Power.

and they'll take the green company public because it's got the Adani name, stock price goes up. And then he'll invest in it from the parent company and then he'll sell those shares and then he'll borrow against the stock and then he'll issue a bond and he's got like all these different debt instruments. And so they have, I think,

more debt than like any other company in India. And now there's a question of, is this all going to fall over or is it all going to work? It's pretty fascinating. Dude, do you ever feel, I feel self-conscious when I hear about these things because my thing with, business is like just the very simple of buy low sell high you know like I purchase a widget for you know one dollar and I put some type of value or I just buy tons of them and so I get a discount

and then I sell them for like a dollar 50 that 50 cents my profit I use a quarter of that to pay myself a quarter to go buy more and like it's like a relatively like simple straightforward process and then I hear about like you just use the word debt instruments and how he you know he like he does this thing and gets a loan across this thing and this thing and when I I hear that stuff, I just think, like, so, like, where's the dollar that goes into his bank account actually come from? You know what I mean? Like, I try to think about, I'm like, I don't understand how this person then eventually

collects the money and how the people who are owed money where they got the money from and when they're going to get paid back. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's so complicated for me because I'm such a simpleton or is it just bullshit? I don't think it's bullshit. seventh grade my parents got me a piano teacher and I wish that instead I just learned how to play dead instruments like that would have just been so much better than learning how to play you know what do you mean a debt oh debt instrument yeah no shit like where do people learn this stuff where do people

learn this sort of financial engineering I think that a lot of it happens if you're like on the inside so you work at a investment bank or you work somewhere there but like this guy didn't but this guy didn't do that yeah yeah so you know I think he hired people who who do that and they sort of say hey look here's what we're going to do. We're going to issue this bond and we're going to take this company public, that we're going to like take a load pledge the shares. We're going to get a loan against the shares. And basically somehow one dollar of EBTA has become $8 of, you know, cash flow for us. And like, we got to figure out how to do that without at all collapsing. But people who understand financial engineering, they have such an edge, such an absolute edge. But when I like originally like made some

money and I remember like, yeah, you can borrow money now at 1%. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to going on a debt. And they'd be like, well, no, sometimes it's like, it could be wise for you to do that. For example, if you have to pay taxes, I'm like, why? He goes, well, because you'd have to sell this thing, which then you'd take like a, you know, a 40% discount on that because of taxes. And I'm like, wait, I don't understand this. Can you like lay this out? Like, can you write this on a piece of paper? So like, it and then my banker, Griffin, he ended up flying to New York to visit me to like, he goes, dude, I just need to sit down with you so you understand this. I swear to God. I go, why are you coming here? You got meetings? He goes, no, I'm coming to explain this to you.

So he came and he explained it to me. He's like, yeah, sure, meetings. Yeah. I've cleared my day to explain the one concept of borrowing against stock. Like I just didn't understand it. Were you the same way? Were you like, I just don't get this. This doesn't make sense to me.

No, because you and others explained it to me, right? So like, yes, it's true. I didn't understand. I didn't know about it at first. And then when I knew about it, I didn't understand why it was good. And then somebody's like, hey, so you notice why this is amazing, right? you could either sell your stock, pay taxes, and no longer own the stock, or you could keep owning the stock, never pay the taxes, just borrow at a 1% rate against that money, and like, you're good.

And I was like, okay, so that's good, right? They're like, all right, you dip shit, you didn't understand? Like, let's do this again. Dude, it's crazy. Yeah, I just like, so these financial engineers, you know where I learned a lot about this stuff is from Ben, our Ben Wilson, his podcast with Rothschild. And I started learning about this a little bit. But then I also learned that I think some people,

I don't know like what skill set it is. I do think it's rooted in just like they're just good at math. And they understand just like complicated algebra, to be honest. Just like exponential, exponential. Like that's a concept that's like, it sounds like I'm joking. But that's actually quite hard to understand. Like to understand what is 7% or 10% or 12% growth for 50 periods? what's that actually look like.

Like I remember listening to this podcast. I was like, oh, you're just like, just like LeBron, it's just taller and can dunk better. It doesn't matter what I do. Like there's some people that are just better at this.

And I don't know what that skill set is, but there is something there. It's like you're just, you're better than me. Well, I think you just get curious about that thing, which most of us who are like builders, makers,

entrepreneurs, you know, like the stereotype about, let's say, you know, who cares, you know, corporate structure,

bookkeeping, taxes, is like, you know, whatever, raising debt. That wasn't never the reason I got into business. That's not what I found interesting at the time. I was like you. It's like, oh, we could buy this thing for X and sell it for Y. You know, that's the game plan.

Or we can make this thing that doesn't exist. And wow, look how cool it is. Look how it works. That was always more fun. And it's just like a level up progression in the game to be able to understand. How do I, A, keep more money that I make? And B, how do we leverage money so that we could do more interesting things, you know, in a less dilutive way.

So I think these people are amazing, you know, like Xavier, who runs enduring ventures. He told me this once. He was just like, you know, if I died,

I'd be reincarnated as a CFO, not a CEO. And I was like, it was like the weirdest brag I'd ever heard. I was, I never heard somebody like bragging about wanting to be a CFO. And I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, he's like, I don't know. I just really like learning about how to be efficient and smart on this like financial, like financial engineering. And he had done, you know,

real engineering before that. He built basically like, He built a solar company in Africa, the largest solar company in Africa. Dude, that's so funny that he's interested in that stuff, though. And batteries, he comes up. He's like a hippie. He's totally a hippie, right? He did that because he's like, dude, there's people suffering in Africa.

Like, I want to, like, that seems like the problem to go fix. But then along the way, he's like, all right, well, how do I create, you know, how do I finance all of these solar panels and battery packs without having to go raise venture capital? And so in order to do that, like the necessary evil was he needed to learn how to access cheap debt. He needed to learn how to like issue debt and underwrite for other people because what he did was he was like, you know, these people should basically, they don't have the $21 to buy the solar panel that goes on top of their house that's going to power their fridge. And like if they don't have a fridge, their life really is tough and they need this, but they can't afford the $21. So like, let's just do it at $4 a month or whatever. And like I will underwrite a loan against their like income.

And it's like, how do you underwrite a loan for somebody who doesn't even have electricity in their house? And he would figure these things out. And so I think it became a necessary evil and something he got fascinated with. And so now they're doing this holding company. And so he does this one thread he did went viral, which was like how to have a holding company like Warren Buffett and basically like, you know, make a massive amount of money, pays little taxes you need to and like, you know, have more and more money to do acquisitions as you go. And he basically outlines Warren Buffett's corporate structure and why that's advantageous. and I read it and I still only understand 25% of it, but I'm just glad that there's people like that

that I can go to whenever I have a question. That's hilarious. Dude, that's great. Well, I like this guy. I got him. I'm gonna, I want to learn more about him. You have more on him or you want me to go?

I have another person like this. I have another person and idea like this. Okay, so now let's switch gears. Another creative titan that we talked about Mr. Beast. So we hung out with Mr. Beast. I don't know if you guys are sick of us talking about that yet, but, you know, producer Ben is literally sitting here in a Mr. Beast t-shirt. So, you know, he's a fan.

By the way, that's good, Ben, because, you know, when we were sitting in that meeting and they brought in the swag, Jimmy, who is Mr. Beast, he goes, oh, man, they're not like kids, dude, they don't need, they don't need the stuff. Like, you know, they're not going to be, because the guy came in was like, guys, I got treats for you. And he's like, had a bunch of swag and nobody moved. And Jimmy was like, oh, no, they don't care about this stuff, man. they're adults.

And then all of us were like, the fuck are you talking about, dude? And like, we're just like, I just like, I literally rolled my chair over to him. Like, you know,

like a kid, I'm like, we, I like just rolled my rolling chair over to that part of the table because it was like a long boardroom. And I was just like, I'm going to get some swag.

And I went and got it. And the other guy was like, I got kids, man, I got, they're going to need. If I don't bring back swag, they're going to be pissed.

And so, and now Ben is wearing his. Damn. I, I, Jimmy drove me, like, that shirt that you're wearing Ben in the back of his car and I just go, I'm fucking taking this.

He's got tons of them. So I stole mine from him. I didn't know that we had the opportunity to take it like ethically. Never considered that. So Jimmy, okay, so I wanted to bring something up that he had talked about that we didn't mention on the podcast, which to me is the most interesting business that this guy has. You might be thinking is the most interesting business is YouTube channel? No. Is it his chocolate company Feastable named Feastables? No. Is it his drop shipping burger company, his Cloud Kitchen, called

Mr. Beast Burger? No. Do you know which one I'm going to talk about? Do either you guys know? Sam, do you know which one I'm going to talk about? I think. Ben, do you have any idea which one I might be referring to? Well, no, but are you going to talk about his burger? Did you guys see his restaurant just open? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but let's talk

this other thing. Okay. No, I don't know you know. I'm like, I wrote down what I think it is. And then you, you say,

I'm going to say it. It's his like kind of translation, internationalization company. Translation. Sam got it. There it is. This idea is amazing. So when we're sitting there,

he's like, yeah, I got basically whatever, the number one, number two, whatever biggest channel in America. And he's like pulling up his like YouTube stats on. He's like airplane onto the TV like his YouTube stats.

And then he goes, I also. have this channel in Portuguese, you know, my Portuguese channel is growing really fast. And he puts up a video, it's got 20 million views in Brazil. And I was like, and it starts talking and all of a sudden, he's talking in fluent Portuguese. And I was like, what is this? He's like, oh yeah. Like AI? No. So what they did was they were like, look, one of the things, we already put a million and a half dollars into this video where I built this chocolate factory and I'm going to give it away to one of these people. How do we get more juice out of that fruit? And so,

And so what they realized was we can go international into markets where YouTube is huge, like Brazil. Brazil's got this massive population. It's huge on YouTube. And they don't have content like Mr. Beasts doing it. Like he's ahead of the game for the US. These light years ahead of the game for like Brazil or the Philippines or different places like this.

And so, but the challenge is it's a language challenge. So what they did was they went, they basically hired somebody to create a YouTube channel. They said, hey, you're going to be our YouTube channel manager for. for this country. You're the country manager for Brazil. You gotta have our Twitter, our TikTok, our YouTube, all of it. You know, Mr. Beast Brazil or whatever it's called.

Then secondly, we're gonna, when we have a video here, you need to get it translated by a local, like a dubbing service, so like a local translator, and I want it translated, I want the description translated, I want all of it done.

And then you upload it there, you respond to the comments, you manage that community, all of that good stuff. And what they did was they would not, like they didn't just go get like, you know, some random crappy person on five,

to do it. They got like the guy who dubbed Spider-Man in in Brazil. They got him to do the voice acting for this. They paid him a lot of money. They paid him like a couple hundred grand. And I was like, I feel like you didn't need to do that. You could have just got anybody. And he's like, check this out. Like basically you don't know shit about shit, Sean. And so he goes to the comments. And every comment is, oh my God, Mr. Beast is Spider-Man. Like they just thought he must be that guy. Like that's him. That's that voice I recognize. And so he got like all this extra, you know, social juice. It was a little more remarkable. And again, back to our principal from last podcast, which is just do the doper thing. Just do the dope shit instead of the lame shit. What's cooler?

The cheaper guy from Fiverr or all right, you paid a hundred grand or whatever. You got Spider-Man to do it. And it's like, of course, of course. What am I thinking? And so that's what they're doing in all these countries. When I listen to audiobooks, like on Audible, I, if I see a famous person's the author or the narrator, rather, I listen to it. So like, I'm listening. listening to Huckleberry Finn. Not that I really care about Huckleberry Finn, but Nick Alferman is the narrator, you know, the guy from community. You know who that is? He's like, yeah. Is he the main guy in community? Yeah, Ron Swanson. He plays like an angry, like, white country guy. Or like, it'll be another guy, like, it'll be just like, whenever I see

an author who I, a narrator, if I recognize they're a famous person, I listen to it. So Tom Hanks doing Divichy Code. I didn't really even want to do DaVinci Code, but Tom Hanks. So like, the whole narrator thing, yeah, that's pretty sick. I'm on board with that. Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out-of-sync spreadsheets or dueling databases. HubSpot, grow better.

So basically what he's done is he's like, cool, now that's, okay, so he was doing that for himself. So he's like, oh, good, I'm blowing up in Romania. I'm blowing up in Philippines. I'm blowing up in Brazil. I'm rolling up everywhere. He's like, I already did 80% of the work. It's that last 20 that is, for, you know, that is,

foreign to me feels feels like a lot of work but I can hire the people to do this but the smart part was he's like this is not just a way for me to expand my brand that's already a smart business move he then created this as a service for other big YouTubers so now if you're whoever you know your Iraq or you're you're you know some yes theory or something like that right you could basically just use his service he'll just go to you and be like hey do you want to be big in Brazil we'll just do all the work for you and like we'll keep like 30% of the ad revenue and they're like, that's crazy. Okay, yeah, like I'm not going to hire. I'm not going to go and do this interview process to hire all these people and figure it out and manage this all myself. That's kind of inefficient.

But what he can do is like he can have one team in Brazil that's going to manage 15 YouTubers channels there. And so I think this is one of the smartest businesses that he has. I think it's going to be one of the most successful. It's going to be pure profit essentially. And I think he's got the distribution locked down because if he goes to any YouTuber and explains, hey, here's what I'm doing and you get access to my machine, they're all going to say yes. And it's a good idea for them. It's a win-win for them

because they're just not going to capture this extra value. And so he's doing this. And it's just another example of turning a cost center into a profit center. And I actually want to talk about some examples of those. So basically things where this would normally just be a cost to him to run this, to have all these people on staff. But once he turns it into a service for other YouTubers,

now it becomes a profit center. There are a bunch of examples. Which I think this would make way more money than the chocolate bars. Like I remember I ate the chocolate, the chocolate that he had. And I was like, well, you know, like, A, it's good. But I don't, it's not like that different than any other chocolate that I've had. And B, it kind of sucks that I've got to feel bad about myself if I consume a lot of your product. And C, it's only like, it was $40, I think, for a box.

Like, that's hard to build a big business, $40 a pop. You know what I'm saying? At least when you're not, if you got to be in Walmart or something. Yeah, which I'm sure he could do also. To Ben's point, he opened up a brick and mortar location for his burger joint. And normally you're like, ah, you know, opening up a restaurant in a mall, maybe not the best idea. And then he like post this video. There's like literally, I don't know, 50,000 people in the mall.

Like lined up. It was like people were lined up up and down each concourse. Just like, you know, the restaurants on floor one or whatever. Like people were on floor four just lined up in this line. And it was insane. So, you know, this guy's got pretty massive. of pull. So what are the other examples of Turner Toss Centers? So the first one that came to mind for me was AWS. So AWS today is basically Amazon. Amazon's, most of its profits come

from AWS. And AWS is basically when Amazon had to have a really robust set of servers to run their own website. And then they were like, hey, the way we use this kind of like server infrastructure, and it's just like this big expense for us to have this server farm. What if we just rented this out to other companies who want to have like Amazon level servers without having to go rack their own servers in some data center. And that became AWS. And basically AWS spits off billions and billions in profit now. What started as what would have been a billion dollar loss. And so, you know, that's a huge swing. But I have some others that I want to explain to you. So Michael Gerley, who came on the pod, he goes, my favorite is this company called Freight Alley. They

did what HubSpot kind of did with the hustle. They basically, basically have this thing called Freight Waves, which is Freight Waves is basically a media company, and Freight Alley is the like the SaaS company. So basically they're a SaaS company that created a media arm that goes and normally a media company has expenses, but they turn it into a profit center. Basically that acquires customers for the SaaS business at a negative customer acquisition cost. So the media company is profitable and brings in customers to their own SaaS, you know, the bottom of the funnel. So that's one example, not exactly the full thing. Dude, that guy, the guy who started that company, his name's Craig. I've hung out with him a bit.

He bought a big piece of property in Tennessee, and he's the one who's turning it into like an airport. It's like a country club, but instead of a golf course, there's an airport. So he's selling, he bought a huge plot of land. Now he's sub-selling, or he's selling smaller plots of land, and there's going to be an airplane strip and a hanger that everyone has access to. So if you're a flying enthusiast, you buy a home there and you can use this. And he bought a magazine, I think it was called Airplane.com or something like that. He bought a magazine. He's like, I'm going to buy a magazine and do the same thing that I did. But instead of software, we're going to do it with these houses.

Wow. That's amazing. Another example. So any DDC company that eventually takes their own warehouse and starts fulfilling for other customers, so they turn their own warehouse, which is a cost for them for fulfillment, into a profit center because they're doing fulfillment for themselves and others. It's very similar to AWS. Okay, here's another one.

This guy, George on Twitter just sent me this. He goes, Ford decided to own the timber supply for their vehicles. So there was lots of wood in the early cars. Yeah, charcoal, baby. They ended up with so much leftover wood. They started selling charcoal and that's Kingsford charcoal company. That's my favorite, man. That's my favorite story.

That's kind of amazing. I didn't know that. Is there more to know about that or did we kind of nail it there? No, you nailed it. So basically they were, so Ford was making frame, car frames. and they had to burn a whole lot of wood in order to, you know, bend the steel or do whatever they had to do. And they had all this leftover charred wood. And they're like, what do we do with this? And I think it was Henry Ford's idea. I forget exactly whose idea. But he goes, hey,

let's let's start selling this. Let's make something out of this. And that's where it kind of came from. There's a bunch of entrepreneurs that have kind of like done things like this. Standard oil did something like this. This gets more complicated and is less interesting. But like, hey, this off put of kerosene is like this weird, like fluid that's like really greasy. Is there anything we could do with that and like WD40 or something like that? Right. Like they've like, there's like stories like that with standard oil as well. And so here's a couple others.

So Foursquare, four square had an API for businesses because they needed all this data about businesses where they're located, all that stuff. And they needed that to power their own Foursquare app. And Foursquare kind of went up and this hype cycle that went down, many years, sort of forgotten, sort of written off. But a new CEO joined and almost oriented the company around this. It was like, look, the more valuable thing is not people using Foursquare, the app and playing the game. It's all the data we've collected about businesses where they're located with like hyper precision.

And so we actually just need to make that API available to everybody. And they productize the API and they make, I think more money off the AP. I think they make more money off the API than they do off the core app at this point. So I think that's another great example of this. Amazon has a bunch like Amazon was a bookseller. Right. So their main cost of goods sold was their books. But then they create Kindle and Kindle self and the self publishing business and the public and all that. And so now Kindle itself became a profit. So what used to be a cost, which was selling books. Now they sell ebooks that they kind of own. And they turn that profit. Same thing with payments, right? Amazon had to pay a merchant like a fee every time they processed a payment. So they created their own payment software. Amazon called Amazon payments. And now like, you know, for our ecom store, I just went, I was like, I think we you take Amazon payments? Where does that money go? And I went and found an account we have with Amazon payments that had like 400 grand sitting in it because we use that service, Amazon payments, to

take payments for somebody who wants to pay with Amazon. And so they turned it into a profit center along the way. That's crazy. Another one is Slack. So Slack started out as a game. And when they were working on their game, it wasn't actually doing that well, but they created a way in order to communicate effectively with their with their coworkers. And they said, oh, fuck this game. This thing is actually way cooler. Let's actually turn this internal tool into a proper tool. We thought about doing that. So here's, but here's the problem with this. This all sounds sick. A lot of people say, yeah, let's do this. And so a lot of publishers are doing this. And so they were like, let's sell a CMS. So BuzzFeed, Vox, Washington Post. I forget who else. It was like, they build these

custom website builders. And they say, let's sell this. And I think oftentimes it's a distraction. And they always say, well, Amazon did it. And I looked into this. Amazon, did launch AWS pretty early on. But do you know how many employees they had when they did it? How many total employees are on AWS? Yeah, total employees. There was about 5,000. So they were already a multi-billion dollar company.

And so the way the story is told is like, oh, they were just this little guy. No, they had about 5,000 people when they launched AWS. Like it was like a, you know, it was a, it was a thing. It wasn't just like a scrappy startup. And a lot of times people like will say, well, let's also sell this. It's like, dog, we've got eight people working here. here like who's going to do this uh so that's always like i've always been conflicted with this strategy yeah that's that's true uh you guys considered it you would have done it for what is it

your um our email sending platform so like we built our own for a little while and then we made it really easy so like it it is so basically hypothetically which there aren't that many people doing this if you had a daily email it was really easy for you to talk to your advertiser make the ad and insert into the thing have them approve it and like it was simple and easy to But the problem is, they're not that many people doing it. You know what I mean? And B. Well, there weren't then, but like Beehive basically does that now.

And they're actually growing pretty well. Well, maybe. I could have been wrong, but I don't think I'm going to end up being wrong. I think that I think that I'm not convinced that what they're doing, at least ads for a daily email, that business, I don't think will ever be that particularly big. And Beehive. So Beehive is kind of like substack.

And so it's these services that you get subscribers and they take a small amount of revenue based off of how much you're making from subscriptions or you just pay them like a fee on how many subscribers you have. Do you think that some of those businesses actually can become huge venture-backsized companies? So I just invested in Beehive actually. Initially, I didn't invest because I was like, I don't know how big this gets. And then two things sort of changed by mine. The first is every time I needed something for Beehive, the founder was. an absolute animal on my request. Like, because we use it for Milk Road. So yeah, he's great. His name's Tyler.

He's awesome. Tyler was, he's like, he's already on a road map. The question I have is A or B, that's like nuance about it that shows he's been thinking about this noodling on it. And then he'd be like, when do you need this by? Because normally like it's scheduled to be out in three weeks. But if you need three days like, you know, the weekend exists. I might be able to do it.

You know, whatever. So he was able to like rip off feature after feature. after feature that we needed. And everything that was like, you're like, hey, we have this question. It's like him and his team would dig in. So I saw that he kind of had that grit that you like in an entrepreneur. So I got to basically test drive the entrepreneur. He's special.

Which I normally don't get to do with most investments. You know, with most investments, you meet them. You do a call with them. They say all the right things. They send you the deck. You look at it. You look at the product. And like, you got to make an educated guess at that point.

You don't get to spend months working with the actual entrepreneur as a customer and see how quick they are with features, how fast they're responding, the quality of the product, all that good stuff. So that was the first reason. The second reason was I've come to realize that the best investments I've made have been ones where what looks like a small market, what looks niche, turns out to not be niche. So we got acquired by Twitch and our last company, Twitch was kind of the quintessential example of this, right? Like, yeah, but like how many people are going to watch other people play video games on the internet? Like, how many people are going to stream themselves playing a video game and how many people want to watch?

that looked niche and turned out to be a massive behavior. This is also true with like, you know, now Shopify seems really obvious. I remember talking to the VC who led Shopify's early rounds, you know, maybe six, seven years ago. And Shopify at that point was still like legit, but it's not what it is today. It's not like seen as it is today as like one of the blue chip startups. And it was the same thing. It was like, okay, you know, like just like Etsy, like, you know, how big do these actually

get these kind of like indie maker seller type things isn't amazon and big brands just kind of like dominate this like how many mom and pops are there going to be on the internet that can actually do this well and how much dude i remember that i remember tim ferris invested in shopify and he was talking about it and i was like Shopify that's so silly like you know this thing exists this exists why don't just use this thing and like you know i remember like i forget what those were like big commerce do you remember big commerce there's big commerce there's WooCommerce, there's Magento. There was all these. And so that was actually the bigger problem, which is if you looked at the

existing ones that had been around for like 10 years and they were kind of like, like, those are pretty like, they're cheaper, they're harder to, they're more flexible, but they're way harder to use. And they were kind of like from a different era. So they kind of like peaked at a certain point. And you look at those. Well, they were peaking back then. Yeah, you're like, how big does this get?

Look, that's how big it gets, not very big. Right. And the same thing happened with Airbnb. I remember when Airbnb was like coming out and it was like, oh, well, it's couch surfing, but better, right? Like, I don't know if people remember. Couchsurfing.com was like one of the early, oh, that's a cool idea, but it never made a bunch of money,

never got huge because, again, how many people really want to go live, sleep on, you know, someone's couch or extra bedroom in, in some city. Okay, yeah, it's this kind of vagabond, hippie traveling shit, but like, that's not mainstream. And so if you looked at couch surfing to see how big Airbnb could get, you're like, well, sit.

Very, very similar idea. Been around for longer. Seems to have plateaued around this size, not that big. And like you would have been wrong. And so I guess I've kind of learned that like the absolute biggest wins adventure come when you find something non-obvious. And the non-obvious to me typically is like just fundamentally like product categories or markets people aren't going after or markets that other people think are small that

actually are going to turn out to be very big. There's this really great story with Sam Altman, who's, at the time was the president of what's it called, Y Combinator and Brian Chesky. And Brian Chesky is getting, or maybe he was just worked at Y Combinator. And Brian Chesky in 2011,

was getting ready to pitch. You know, so YC, you go through this eight or 12 week incubator. At the end, you pitch a bunch of venture capitalists. And YC helps you a bunch of ways, including getting your pitch right.

Brian Chesky is what Sam going over his pitch. And he goes, this company one day is going to make $100 million a year. And Sam was like, Brian, like, can you just do me a favor? Anywhere in this presentation where you have like a number, could you do me a favor and add a zero behind it at the end of it? He goes, he goes, change all the M's to B's.

Investors like B's. Yeah, he goes, anything that you have an M, I want to see a B. Change it all. And I don't remember exactly how the story goes, but it was paraphrased in such words like, Brian goes like, but that's lying. Like, there's no way that we're going to do that. It's just impossible. No one has done this before.

He goes, yeah, but, you know, it seems like a big market. And here's my reasoning. Like, logically, it makes sense. There's so many people who stay at hotels. Like, of course you can do this. I mean, someone can do it, I bet. And just do me a favor and change all those Ms to Bs. And even Brian Cheskey didn't believe it.

And there's another story, by the way, where I remember what was Amazon's first VC? Was it Madonna? Is that what it's called? Madonna? It looks like the word Madonna. They're based up in Seattle. And he's pitching. And I listen to a podcast with the guy.

guy he pitched. And the guy he pitched tells a story of Bezos saying, like, look, if we, if we get our act together and we make this work, I think we're going to make like a hundred million bucks a year in like the next five or 10 years. Like that was his pitch. Is like, that's how big I think we're going to get. And the guy was like, I need to get a lot bigger than that. But whatever, you seem really competent. So it's just proof that like even the people starting things sometimes also are like, I don't know how big this can get. I don't know if this is going to work out. Yeah. Like there's that clip of Mark Zuckerberg. talking out of college and he's like doing a interview,

a campus interview. Like, hey, we're here with the campus report. And we have Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of the facebook.com, which is blowing up around campus. People really like your website, Mark. You know, he's like, he's basically,

he's wearing basketball shorts. He's got a red solo cup. He's drinking out of. Yes. And he's just sitting there. And they're like, so you've expanded to like, whatever, seven colleges.

And where are you going to go from here? You could end up going into high schools or, you know, you're going to, How big can this get? He's like, oh, I don't know. Like, right now it's Facebook is cool. Like, it's cool for colleges. It's really, really useful.

And sometimes if you try to make something too big, like, it loses what makes it cool. Like, maybe it doesn't, like, why does it have to be bigger? And maybe it doesn't have to be bigger. He says that. And then, like, you know, sure enough, fast forward 10 years, he's like, we need to launch a satellite to India to give these rural villagers internet. More users. The Facebook. Yeah, we need more.

And so he turns into an absolute animal. By the way, this MMA clip of Zuck, you seen this? Awesome. He killed it. He killed it. He killed it. So for the background on this,

Zuck went on Rogan and talking about a bunch of stuff. It was actually a pretty good interview, I think. Zuck actually kind of redeemed himself a bit. But in part of the interview, Zuck said, I've been training MMA and people are like afterwards. Yeah, right. Okay, nerd.

He posts this video of him training. He looks really good. Way faster than I thought he was going to be like fighting. He was fighting. Just, even if he wasn't good, the fact that he does this, it's just like,

basically this was my tipping point. I already liked Zuck, but now I'm Team Zuck, which there's not a lot of us here, right? We can't even play a game, a pick of basketball. There's four of us on Team Zuck.

We're just still looking for a fifth. And somebody tweeted this out. They go, Jack Dorsey, you know, he goes, Jack Dorsey hasn't worked in 10 years. Constantly, like constantly meditating, you know, dating different models, no family,

tries to run multiple companies at once, fails, Twitter never makes anybody, blah, blah, blah. Zuck, you know, begrudgingly runs a trillion dollar empire, you know, faithfully monogamous, great dad, trains MMA, like all these, like, it was like Jack Dorsey doesn't work out. It's like Zuck, trains MMA. And it's just like highlights like, you know, basically like, why does everybody hate this guy again? Like, what does this guy done? Like, you know, and some people are like, he ruined democracy.

He's like, no, dude. He built basically the modern telephone. You're pissed that some people make phone calls that you don't like. That's basically what happens on Facebook is that he built the app everybody uses to communicate everything stupid or amazing. and sure enough some percentage of that is not content you like and is not controllable and the guys literally built it was at a trillion dollars at a point in time he's built a trillion dollar company and he just keeps running it and keeps trying to make it better and he keeps trying to

push the envelope and he keeps trying to make like better and better products and services and do you think he really cares about like do you think he sits there being like i want to influence the election but no that's like you know that's the that's a pain in the ass he's trying to deal with. It's not like his agenda. People make him out to be like this evil guy. And it's like, people, people don't like him because he's awkward. Like, all right. You're a bully if you don't like him because he's a herd.

You know, like, think about who you are if you don't like Mark Zuckerberg. You're a fucking bully. You just think he's awkward. And that's how you judge him. Like, screw you, man. The guy's awkward. We should do, we should do like an entire episode about this because there was one beautiful line that he said.

So Rogan was like, um, look, like you had these Russians doing this and influencing the election. And then the Hunter Biden story came out. And you guys like took it down and you told them it wasn't allowed. And then like Rogan was like criticizing him or at least voicing all the criticisms that Facebook had. And Mark goes, yeah, look like, how would you handle that situation? And love to see you do it. I love to see you try, Joe. And Rogan goes, I don't know. And Zuck's like, yeah, we didn't die there. And so our reasoning was like, like, Like we like took down the hundred. Like I don't even remember how he explained.

He's like, well, our reasoning was this, this and this. Well, he was like, the FBI came to us, told us there's about to be a story that could be massive misinformation and go viral. We just basically, they just got their wrist slapped because they previously let other information spread too fast that they said, you should have known that was fake news. You should have stopped it. So now the FBI comes to you and says there's about to be a dump of fake news that's going to go viral. So what do they do? they're like, okay, we shouldn't just like, I guess we shouldn't block the news, but maybe we should like suppress it in the news feed so that it doesn't go super viral because, you know,

isn't that what we just got in trouble for? He didn't say all this, but like, it's obvious. This is obviously what, what would you do? The FBI comes to you says it's about to be a misinformation leak. And then it comes out and sure enough, it starts going viral. You have to decide, do we just let this take over the platform and like, oops, we did it again? Or like, should we play it safe and like not let this spread like wildfire until we can fact check this and see if this is real or not.

By the time it does, one side, the left or right is going to be mad at you. And it's like, if you just think about this shit, it's like the person who in 2016 was like, the election was rigged. The Russians manipulated the election.

Then fast forward to 2020, Biden wins. And then the right is now like, the election was rigged. Biden was counting votes that didn't count. You know, it's like they're both just like, they just switched.

You're the same. You're the same dude on either side. of the aisle, like, don't you realize it's like the Spider-Man meme, they're pointing at each other, and it's the same thing over and over and over again. It's like, you know, she's got, you know, the bad thing on her

server. It's like, he's got the documents in Mar-a-Lago, and it's like, they just keep doing this, you know, left and right. How is a communication platform supposed to win? Because literally, no matter what you do, one side is going to think you're being completely unfair or the other. There's no way to incredibly neutral.

That is such a good answer. And he, humanized himself so much there. And he goes, we, we, our reasoning was, and he said exactly what you said about the FBI, and this is what we thought seemed right at the time. How would you have had that, Joe? And Joe was like, well, that's a good question. I guess I would call someone who I think knows the answer and just talk and listen to him. He goes, yeah, that's what we did. You know, we called these people, we talked to them, and this is the best that we did. And could it have been wrong? Maybe. But like, you know, we don't really know the right answer. And it kind of, I realized, like, oh, wow, this guy, Zuck, he's 38 years old, or 36 years old.

Like, he's in his mid-30s, been doing this since he was 21. Like, he's just making it up and trying to make some good decisions along the way. Is he maybe a little evil? Maybe, but we all got a little bit of us in that. We all have a little bit of that. And, like, he's mostly doing a good job. And it just really did a really good, that question of, well, how would you have handled it? That was such a beautiful way because it was like, oh, you're fallible.

just like me, you know, like we're not that different. Is he a ruthless competitor in the sport of business? Sure. I wouldn't expect somebody who's number one in their game to not be a ruthless competitor at their game. Like, I wouldn't expect them to be a softie who doesn't care or, you know, what I mean? Like, it's insane to be that people hold this like, this crazy standard. Other reasons I'm team suck.

So you know about his like once a year missions that he does? Yeah, like one year it was like travel the country in an RV. Yeah. So he did, that was like when it was like election time. He's like, I need to, I don't know, I need to meet middle America. I'm going to like, you know, I will visit places with Walmarts. Like, you know, that's like his mission for the year that year. Dude, by the way, I respect when people do that so much.

I was watching this music video with Mike Posner. You know Mike Posner? And you probably love him. He went to do. He went to do. He, you know how he walked across the country? Yeah. So he like, I followed it.

Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. He spent like six. He got bit by a rattlesnake. Yeah. And he like, he got bit by a rattlesnake. and he had to go home for two weeks and learn to walk again. And then he shipped right back out to where he was.

And he went to, you know, he's like this guy who you imagine as being this like California cool kid guy or a New York cool kid guy. And he ends up walking the country. He's like, I walked around places with Confederate flags. I went to like rural Kansas. I went everywhere. And I saw America. And I realized that like I don't know shit about America.

These people are a lot different than I thought. And it was really nice to get to know like other types of people. I love when people do that. And so I'm team suck a little bit because he did that. So he did that. But the first one. he did, I feel like were things that he was actually just self-interested in. So he, I remember one of his first ones was that he was going to only eat, if he was going

to eat meat, it had to be meat that he had personally hunted. So he's like, I've never hunted. I think he'd like never hunted before. And he's like, I don't really know where my food comes from or like what goes into this showing up on my plate. And I want to like actually like with my hands, I want to experience this entire process. So he had to hunt it. He had to like prep it or kill like, you know, clean it or whatever and cook it and then

eat it. And so that's what he did for one year. One year he was just like, I want to learn Mandarin. I think Facebook really wanted to go into China. So he's like, he showed up in China to give a talk. He did the whole thing in Mandarin

and surprised the shit out of the whole crowd. They were like, it was like, you know, the scene in eight mile where he's going off in the rap battle. It was like, oh, what's going on?

Like, he's just speaking fluent Mandarin with like the proper tone. And like, dude, what a machine to, in his like spare time, just pick up these hobbies

and then do them. And now he's doing like MMA. and Bology, who's a, you know, a friend of ours, he tweeted this out. He goes, it has begun. I forgot who he said. He goes, first, uh, great line. It has begun. We could say that for so many things. Those are beautiful first words. He called it. He called it. He goes first, Bezos, now, Zuck. I'm seeing it across the board. Tech people starting to seriously lift and train. Testosterone replacement therapy, quantified self, optimal Diet. Eventually, this will be productized for all. But transhumanism starts with personal

chatification. Personal chattification, turning yourself into an absolute chad. And I know you, I don't know if you saw this tweet or not, but every word of this, you know, you were just doing the, you're at the black church saying, you know, the gospel, the choir of Donda Academy is singing. And you're like, amen to this, right? Like, because you've been doing this, right? You've been doing I've been doing this for about five years now. I've been becoming Chad and you want to know something. It is awesome. It is so awesome.

I've influenced you a little bit to you've slowly become into it. It's the way to live, man. Yeah, I'm not like a Chad. I'm like a Charles right now. Like I need to become a Chad. I'm just slowly working. I'm like a Brett trying to get to get to Chad right now. Dude, just like lifting.

This sounds so, I don't care how it sounds. It is what it is. Lifting heavy weight and then just like eating meat and vegetables. I just feel happy. I feel good about my life. And I look at old pictures of us when we were recording the podcast at my office. And my face was so much more round. And I'm disgusted. I'm like, you are such a fucking filthy animal. You are filthy. You are a horrible human being. And I look at myself. It has made me so much happier. And like I'm, I'm pumped that the nerves are finding out about it. Yeah. I think Bologi lifts. I think he power lifts as well. So, so yeah, there's just like,

Like, there's so much research that shows, like, being stronger, it just make, they say, you know, a strong body, a strong mind. Like, when getting stronger, like, there's so many benefits to living a longer life. What's his name? What's the, what's the guy we like, the hunk scientist? Huberman. Yeah, Huberman. Don't act like you don't know. For the record, we never have referred to him like that in private, which is why I was confused.

You act like, we always call him the hunk scientist in text medicine. I have a friend that like went and got a coal plunge with him and he goes he's ripped like he's jacked and I'm like yeah of course this guy's got it all like made for one like how close together were they that's like an occupancy of one that's a new protocol you got to sit on top one another and extends that's what he's telling people he's like uh hey uh you know if you uh sit right here on my lap, you're going to live like an extra hour. But my, dude, my friend did a thing with him, but he goes, he's just jacked. And I don't even remember how we started talking about this.

But he did a podcast there today. He talked about living longer. And he's like, yeah, lift weights and go for runs. And you'll live longer. So I'm happy. You probably do this stuff. My trainer has been doing this stuff called myofascial release or something like that. Do you do this?

Like a massage? It's basically foam. rolling but on steroids. Yeah. I go to a doctor two days a week and get it done to my calves. Yeah, I knew, I knew you would do this as a, as a full Chad. You, of course, are like, you know, all the way in on this. It's basically he has these like, like these trigger point balls and like these like

different like torture devices, I'll call them. And he's like, all right, so I've done foam rolling before. It's okay. It's kind of boring, a little bit painful, not the most fun thing of the world. And, you know, it was always really really. recommended to me like hey just you know you should foam roll tomorrow morning or tonight you know that'll help you with your soreness i was like yeah you know sure right after i eat my broccoli and asparagus and like you know you know say my prayers and get to bed by 9 p.m like of course yeah i'll also

foam roll why not added to the other list of shit i'm not going to do that i shouldn't do and so with this we do we now he the way he got me to do it he's like the first 25 minutes of every workout we're doing this so he'll be like all right find this spot like in your hip flexer and take this like rock hard ball and you're just going to like put all your body weight on that thing and wherever it feels most painful that's the spot. I'm like, oh my God. He's like, he'll hear me like basically wincing and groaning and pain. And he's like, all right, cool. Just you found it. Now stay there for three and a half minutes. And I'm like three and a half minutes. And so this has turned out to be, I bring this up because, A, I find it interesting. I think there's a lot

of fitness movements that have a business like angle to them. And I feel like you've been ahead of the curve on a lot of this. Like, you were on ATG or the kind of like knees over toes stuff before most people. And in general, like, what do you call it movement therapy or something? Movement training. Yeah, mobility. Mobility training. This myofascial cardio release.

Like, I think this is also like an area where the puck is going and more people are going to be interested. And you feel amazing as soon as it's done, right? Like you feel absolutely amazing when it's done. But the part of it that I find interesting is basically, I for me working out is not like I want to get as jacked and shredded as possible it's basically like I want a part of my day where I'm not at my computer sitting down I'm not on my phone I'm not even thinking about work and I know that could be other things it could be meditation or whatever but like a way a way more achievable form of meditation for me is exercise exercise where I basically

I'm only focused on the thing that's right in front of me like being absolutely present because there's like a giant weight that's about to fall on my face or hurt, I'll hurt my shoulder, or I'll injure myself or I'm like in extreme pain doing this like trigger point massage or whatever. And I'm not, I can't go anywhere else. I can't think about the past. I can't fantasize about the future. I can't worry about what notification just buzzed on my phone. And I'm just like out of it for at least one hour a day. And for me, that became the real like benefits of this more than like, oh, you know, I'm getting more fit or I have more energy or whatever. It's like, it forces me to do that like the like the real version of meditation so that's what i like about it the

most dude i told you what scott galloway said right he's like what i say the whole point he said this in an interview and i thought it was amazing as as like i've been trying to say that but you just said it's so much better he said in the interview with ryan holiday he goes basically i think the whole like if you are not fit enough that you can kill and eat most people in the room or outrun them, then you have a problem. And you should like work. He's like, I pretty much just exercise just so I can kill and eat most people in a room or just be able to outrun them.

And he said that. I was like, oh, yeah, that's actually, that's the way to go. That's the way to live. No, that is so stupid. That's the part where I'm like, okay, I don't even want to be a part of this movement anymore. Like, why is that, how is that even relevant? That's like saying, you know, I want to be fast in case an asteroid is going to hit

the earth and I got to get out of the way. It's like, what are you talking about? What is this scenario where you need to eat and kill? or run away from everybody in the room? Has this ever? And your entire lifetime happened. That's at all not like, it's like, it's more like why does a car need to go 120 miles an hour when the speed limit's 60?

Like, it doesn't. Because it's just, it doesn't know, but it's awesome that it does. And because it can, that makes it just a little bit cooler. Are you ever going to drive 160 miles an hour? No, of course not. But like, I still want that Ferrari just because I want to know I can do it. And like the act of training to get to be able to do it is awesome. So do I intend to eat you?

TBD, probably not. But it's cool that I could like, if I wanted to, I could do X, Y, and Z to you. And just training for that, I think is awesome. I would taste horrible. Like, if you're going to eat somebody, I'm not your guy, you know. Dude, I heard the best place to eat someone is their thumb right here. I heard that's like it got it does actually look like a chicken drumstick actually, now that you think about it, right?

Like that little section. Yeah, I heard that's the best part. I always thought calf would be the way to go because that looks like the giant, like turkey leg at Disneyland. I thought that calf would be where I would do. Muscular parts, muscular parts aren't good. You know, you want fat. The fat or the part is the better. Your calves are pretty lean compared to the rest of your body.

It's just your butt basically then. Your butt and your belly. Yeah, you ever had pork belly, man? That's just good. It is. It's amazing. Salmon belly, fantastic. And pretty much any belly.

Yeah, you want the fat. I'm a belly guy. All right. I think we've gone off the rails. Yeah. We started with Kanye and we ended with eating each other. What part of each other would we want to eat? We have fun.

All right. See you.