My First Million - #51 - Coronavirus, Being on Shark Tank & At-Home Testing Kits with Julia Cheek

Episode Date: February 29, 2020

Sam (@thesamparr) is back from his New York trip to chat with Shaan (@shaanvp) about ideas, trends and businesses. Today, mid-way through we're joined by Julia Cheek (@JuliaTCheek) who is the CEO and Co-Founder of $50M backed EverlyWell, a digital health startup providing at-home medical testing kits and redesigned lab results - which did $40m in sales last year. Topics for today: Sam's time in New York (2:05), Preparing for podcasting and interviews (5:22), Meetup at Sam's Airbnb (8:47), Reality 2020: Shaan's upcoming trip to Israel (12:20), Their thoughts on Corona Virus situation (15:12), Transparent numbers in a business (24:27), New fintech platforms like Pipe.com (32:17), Julia Cheek joins the pod (38:00), Julia's background at Harvard and starting her company (40:20), Her experience on Shark Tank (44:41), How rich are the sharks? (51:31), How much traffic did she get from being on the show (52:56), How her business works (56:10), Sam thinks food allergy testing is BS (58:02), Sexual health is a massive opportunity (1:00:17), Her best customer acquisition channels (1:02:18), Bootstrapping businesses (1:04:12), Turning her idea into reality (1:07:36), Price transparency is the next big thing in healthcare & Insurance (1:12:28), HR Systems (1:16:11) and Stay at home tests (1:17:35).  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Let me make one quick announcement before we get into it. And what I want to do is I've heard about these people say subscribe on subscribe, subscribe, subscribe again. All right. And I want to test it. So last time we asked our viewers for more reviews. And we now have 550 maybe. We got 400 reviews in just a couple of days. You guys are really active.

And they all sent me messages. I tried to reply to everyone. Did you? I did now. Yeah, I went to clean it out. So here's what I haven't got a reply. I thought you did get replies. So here's what I want people to do.

And the reason I want to do this is because I think. people like seeing a succeed and they like seeing the journey. Yeah. So you're gonna help us succeed. So here's what you do. If you have an iPhone, you're gonna go to like the menu where you can like turn your Wi-Fi and Bluetooth off and all that. There's a button on the bottom right where you hit record, okay? Record that. That's gonna record your screen. Then go to the podcast app, go to My First Million, click subscribe, and then unsubscribe, and then subscribe again. Send us a video of that happening. And if you do, also say, us a question that you want and we'll answer your question. Yeah, we'll bake a Q&A. And this will tell us

the truth, right? Because we need to run the experiment. We need to know, is this how, does this actually work or is this just like a myth? And if you send us your question, ideally send it via Twitter. Yeah. So everyone could see and can comment. In that way, it's easy. So just record yourself, what is it? Subscribing, unsubscribing, and then resubscribing, do it a bunch of times. Record yourself, post that on Twitter, tag one of us or both of us. And then on that same thread, ask your question. And if you don't have a question, that's fine, too. And then we're going to look at the charts and we're going to see what this does to the chart movement. I think it's going to actually boost the chart movement. If I, if the theory is correct, you know, I believe this is why

podcasters ask people to do this is because this shit actually works. And if it does, here's what we'll do. If this does work, if people keep doing this, what we'll do is with only the people who do that, we'll like take a screenshot of our analytics and set it to them. Yeah, yeah, we'll share the data. Yeah, no problem. How was the big stage? You went to New York. Yeah. So, what I did was I went to New York and I originally went to meet with some advertisers of ours and to be whining and dine and or what? Yeah. Yeah, kind of.

I'll tell you about it. And then I went to be on the Gary Vaynerchuk podcast and then I went to be on, is it named Pomp? Yeah. Everyone knows him as Pomp. Pomp. Yeah. Anthony Poplano or something.

I did his podcast. It was cool. Did Gary Vaynerchuk's podcast first thing in the morning at 8 or 9 or 10 a.m. when I got there. I was a little groggy from my flight because I took some medicine when I flew. It went okay. We'll see what happens. Oh, hold on. So you walk in. What happens? Yeah, so walked in. So he has two offices in New York, one Hudson Yards, which I've been to before. It's buzzin. This one was the studio. It's a little quieter, but still pretty badass.

It was awesome, man. And you guys know each other. You don't know each other. So it's like the first time we met, but we had, he knew who I was. And obviously, I definitely know who he is. And he knew who our company was. He was totally nice. And he was really low-key at first. He wasn't like cocaine, Gary. Yeah. He was like... You guys do a little chitchat small talk beforehand or you just got into it. So here's what happened.

We sat down and there's like an audience. There was like an audience of like 10, maybe five or 10 people. It was me and Adam on our side of it. And he had an entourage. And we sit down and he goes, all right, go. And he looks at me and I was like, I looked at Adam. I go, Gary, I think you're interviewing me. He goes, oh, I am?

I was like, right, Adam? Like, is that right? And Adam looked at him? He goes, yeah. That's what we set up. Out of the safety blanket. Yeah. And Gary was like, oh, okay.

So tell me about who you are. And it was good. It was great. So he's a nice guy. That's good to know. Yeah. You know, he's an easy target because he's so loud. Yeah.

I believe that he is totally legitimate and a really good business person. I think his company, Vayner, is really, really hard to run. And he said that he was currently the C-O-O-and-C-E-O-G good business. And he's totally legitimate. He's like, because you can like, what makes you say that? Well, you could put him in like the Donald Trump category of a guy who talks a lot and you're like, I don't know. This guy's the real deal. Right.

He's totally the real deal. He just talks a lot. But what were the little tidbits that gave you that impression, right? Because I believe that. I'm not saying you're lying. So whenever I go to these offices, I ask them, I go, so how do you like working here? I always ask employees. I ask the front desk.

I go, what's, you know, and you can kind of tell if they actually like it. Yeah. And he has 800 employees. So the, and the office space was, it was really expensive. estate. There was really nice furniture. Everything was set up professionally. It's a real business. Right. So you could tell what's legitimate and what is it once you go in there. In this Hudson Yards office, they had Vayner Media water, bottled water. The office was buzzing. Everyone had nice computers. It wasn't, it's not a startup. Right. Felt like a legit operation.

Totally. 100%. And kudos to him, man. He's talented. And you did the podcast, you know, rate your performance. I gave myself a C plus. And then because I was, it was a, I hadn't done any reps that day. Like I did a podcast later that day and I had a rep. You were firing. Yeah. And I was like, all right, I'm on it. It just fell a little flat.

But Adam and his people said it was one of their favorite ones they've ever done. And do you have a little prep routine you would do. Let's say before you get on stage, before you do an interview, how do you know, switch the light on? Yeah. Well, I typically will like, you know how it is. Like when we're doing this thing, I was in. a piss. I was in a shitty mood a minute ago and then these lights turned on and you're like, all right, I got a blu-blibut. You got to like snap out of it. And what I do is I talk to the

receptionist or I'll talk to the Uber driver just to like start get out of your head. Yeah, get my words going and getting a better, happier mood. Yeah. And that's usually what I do. Okay. Is that what you do? Uh, no, like everything, I try to like study and come up with like a framework for how to do it and like a technique. And so I picked up two things. So I picked up one from Connor McGregor that he I was watching this documentary of him talk with a pencil in your mouth pen in your mouth yeah so this I tried it and it actually works fantastic so basically you take a pencil or a pen you hold it sort of horizontal sideways you bite on it so it's in your mouth you know sort of going out past your cheeks and then you just talk for one minute and what happens is because the pencil's

there and your mouth's in this awkward position your tongue has to really work to like flick over and under this thing to get to the spots it usually goes to so you end up enunciating way better. I don't know if it's placebo. I don't know if it really is like an actual warm up for your tongue. But this shit works. I've recorded myself before and after and I can tell the difference. And other people listen to it. I said, tell me which one of these sounds better. And I don't know, whether it's placebo or not, that one works for me. The other thing is like a quick physical change. So push-ups or something. Push-ups, a wind sprint, a jumping jack, a scream, music, whatever. I am a big believer that the fastest way to change the way you feel is through changing your body rapidly.

It's like a Tony Robbinsism. Tony Robbins has this great YouTube video if you go look at, if you just YouTube young Tony Robbins. And it's, you know, the same guy minus 25 years. He's in a tank top and he's given the speech. And he talks about it. He goes, before I get on stage, you know, people always ask me, okay, you're a public speaker. You do a really great job. How do you do a great job of this?

And he goes, because I don't make the mistakes most people. do he goes most people are sitting in a low energy shell their body body posture sucks and then they just get up on stage and they don't warm up like an athlete would never do that and he's like i treat myself like an athlete i get myself in a mental state a physical state and he goes the second thing i do i don't try to memorize what i'm supposed to say because when you try to memorize what you say you're trying to prepare but what ends up happening is your mind is then editing it's comparing what you're saying versus what you kind of remember you're supposed to say and so you have this other whole thing going on in your head that takes you away from the mom

moment. Third thing, and this is the last one, he goes, before I go up there, I convince myself that the audience has to hear this. Like, their lives depend on this information. Like, they need, I'm here to help. And if I can get this across, like even with this podcast, for example, it's like, you know, somebody is out there. They're commuting. They're, you know, they have this idea that they haven't taken action on. They're kind of beating themselves up about it. Or, you know, they look around at the five people that they hang out with the most and they're just like, these people are not like me. And we're in their earballs and they're like, oh, they're. are people like me out there. And yes, I should take some action. And yes, I should have some fucking energy today. And so he's like, I just convinced myself that they have to hear this. And then I'm here to serve them. And I was like, okay. I do that. Just hearing that has made me feel better. There you go. Another thing that I did while I was out there is on Sunday night night, I tweet it out. So when I fly, I take a lot of Xanax. It's the only drug I do. I don't do any alcohol. And sometimes the night before, I'll take it a little bit as well because I really hate flying. And so on Sunday night, I tweeted that I rented this Airbnb, which I did. And I'm going to

host a meetup. And I got 200 replies saying, let's meet up. Right. And I couldn't do that. So I only let 20 trend subscribers come. And so the trend subscribers are also not 100 of you listeners or not 100% the listeners are subscribers, but all subscribers are listeners. Right. And they, so I met, I think at 30 ended up coming. And it It was fucking awesome. It was so cool. This one kid flew up from South Carolina or something. And I treated this on the meetup was Monday night. I tweeted this on Sunday night. There was no preparation. Like all we did, me and Adam landed on Monday morning. We went to the Mexican place next door and said, hey, can you bring over enough tacos for 20 people? Here's two or three hundred bucks. And go buy some beer and we'll pay you more money. And that's all we did. And it was awesome. Yeah. These people are fucking fanatical. It is crazy. It's nuts.

It's really odd. Who was the most interesting person? So many interesting people. One guy, there was this one guy, I forget his name. Maybe he's listening. He was an older, the eldest guy there, which is not old, but in his 50s or 40s. And it builds custom electric cars and through the trends group sold 50 cars to another custom electric cars.

Yeah. Like he was making like, he was making like. they took a The Ticaprius or a Ford? No, they took, yeah, they took like some type of pickup truck and made it an electric delivery van. Oh, wow. For a cannabis company in L.A.

Because who else did I mean, I mean, I met all types of people. One guy who sells fake boobs for a living. So he sells his name's. Tell me more. Fairchild. Does this guy ever talk to on Twitter? No. His name's Fairchild?

Hunter. Oh, yeah, yeah. I see this guy on my Twitter all the time. Yeah, he, his boss. He sells fake boobs for a living? Yeah. His boss invented like a better. Dude, what's in his boss?

Because I've looked at this guy's bio and he's not advertising this. No, it was awesome. We're putting Hunter on blast. Me and this girl, Aditi, were just sitting down and Hunter came and we were just shooting this shit. We were like, Hunter, what do you do? And this woman Adi, she's nice. I met her before.

We were just sitting there and he's like, well, I sell breast implants. And we were like, and we just started talking. I was like, so do you have like a woman who comes with you and like shows you, like shows the buyers? Like you need like sales brochures. Like how do you have, like, how do you show that your boobs are the best? and he was just like walking through this whole process. It was crazy.

I had never heard of such a thing. Yeah, me neither, but of course. He came up from Virginia for this. That's great. All right, cool. So you can do more of that or what? Well, you and I need to do more. So what we can do is New York that we could get,

easily we could have gotten 200 people. Yeah. So we can do one in New York. I think ACAS or whatever we use tells us where people are. Right. We got to go to Canada. We got to go to Utah. When we shouted out Utah that time,

I know I still get more of the whole time. Dude, the number of the, these friendly-ass Utah, you know, citizens, whatever they're called, Utahans, reach out all the time, like, hey, when you guys are here, I got you. So maybe like... And it feels good to be taken care of like that. It does. It feels great.

Maybe. Great hospitality. Hmm. What months is it? February? Yeah. End of February. We should do a thing where we could try to hit up like three cities in five days. Right. Or maybe a little longer.

So I got into this thing. I don't know if I told you about this, this thing called reality. Have you heard of this? No. So basically, you know how Jewish people have. birthright. Yeah. And I don't know exactly how the mechanics of birthright work, but from what I understand,

if you're Jewish, you get to go. It's paid by the sort of wealthy Jewish people around the world. And wealthy Christians, fundamental Christians who believe that Israel's the land for Jews. Oh, wow. Okay, I didn't know that. So basically, that's a cool thing for Jewish people. You're shaking your head. Are you Jewish, Henry?

But you know all about it? You just stunned? All my friends are gone on it. Yeah, I've never been more jealous than when my friends go on birthright and then come back. It's like this mini study abroad. Yeah, it's great. And so then I was like, all right, what is this? How do we get more of this?

So they have this program called Reality, Reality 2020, if you want to look it up. And it's basically you can be in these different groups. You can be in entertainment. You can be in technology. You can be in whatever, social impact. You apply to get in. If you get in, I applied before, I got rejected a few years ago. This time I applied, I got in.

And it's like a small group, I don't know, 30 people, 40 people that get accepted and get to go. It's not all expenses paid, but it's like most expenses paid. And so, yeah, anyways, I'm going on the show. trip late May now and I'm going to see what this is all about to Israel and I've heard of the Siva does it is it a see if it did it yes I don't think it you don't have to be Jewish this one's not like it's like it's like a it's like a but it's like a but it's for like you know Israel's right you know sort of start up and kind of thought leadership and young people that sort of thing the future leaders I mean it's like a not in a bad way it's a propaganda

thing it's like to get you into the Israel yeah it's like a program yeah yeah so I'm doing that but um my question to you going it's late in May So first, scared of coronavirus may not go. I was supposed to go in Germany in May. So we should talk about coronavirus in a second. But secondly, why did Jews have all the good things? Why don't other people do this? This seems like a great birthright seems great.

Jews and Mormons. Yeah, Mormons. They're like the same thing, but Mormons might be better now because they don't drink. Do Mormons have these perks like that, like birthright or something? Yeah, they all have all types of shit, dude. And they're all real good of basketball. And Jews love basketball too. I mean, dude, they're all like real similar.

It's a very similar group of people. The thing I like is the sort of pay it forward thing. I think Silicon Valley has this a lot where a lot of people who move here, they hesitate to reach out to people because they're like, well, why would this person want to help me? I have nothing to offer. But like that is the culture of Silicon Valley is to pay it forward. It is to help the next person who doesn't know anything. And I feel like Jews have this in their culture. And I feel like Mormons have this in their culture.

You know, I'm Indian. I don't feel like there's this same. It's not as strong for Indian people. people to sort of try to help out the next. And I think part of it's because there's such a big population you can't afford to do it. There's like, I don't know, six million Jewish people on earth or something crazy. They run the world. So I think, you know, with a small number of people, you can offer this like much more high touch help each other model. I agree. Okay. You want to get into some stuff? You want to talk about coronavirus or you

want to yeah, coronavirus. Okay, so I'm terrified of coronavirus. And, you know, generically, I'm terrified. You know, I was terrified without information. And then I started looking into a little bit more. I don't even know about it. Can you explain what the coronavirus is? Yeah, so basically there's a couple of these viruses. There are influenza strains. And so the flu. The flu, yeah. So basically a few years ago, you probably heard, you know, SARS or swine flu. And so, you know, the very first time I think SARS happened. There was a, you know, a kid got this flu, goes to the doctor's office. They're like, okay, this is the flu. And kid dies within like a very short amount of time. They're like, well, that was odd. That doesn't usually happen. So they took a sample and sent it to like the CDC or whoever. right like they sent it to some lab to say you know what do you see here there's this was a very unusual case the health deteriorated so quick that's not typical to the flu and what they realized was hey this is a new strain called i think it was like h1 and five at the time and it was like this is only ever found in

animals this is the first time it's crossed over from animal to human and so that was bird flu when that happened and then so there's been these different um sort of very very deadly viruses SARS which are which was very, very popular. MERS, which happened in the Middle East, respiratory syndrome. So it's kind of what these Middle East respiratory, I think, syndrome is the what MERS stands for. And SARS is sort of the same thing. And so the thing with these was that, you know, although there's a lot of hooplaa around

SARS and bird flu, like SARS killed less than a thousand people. Less than a thousand total fatalities. Not a big drop in the bucket as far as the death bucket goes on Earth. Coronavirus already killed like 3,000 plus people. So already much bigger than that. the reason it's scary though is actually and for a while people were like oh don't worry the fatality rate is low fatality rate's like i don't know three percent for this whereas for SARS it was like super high i don't know i don't the exact number but it's like majority of people who have it die

whereas with this three percent means you get it but you have a good chance of living but the big problem with that and the article that i read was called why you're probably why we probably can't contain coronavirus why you probably are going to end up getting coronavirus is because this virus is extremely contagious but has these trademarks that are very problematic. So it takes a while for your symptoms to show up. So you have it and you carry it for like, you know, 14 days without showing symptoms. So you'll be spreading this around and not even realizing you have it. Then once you have it, you don't just like deteriorate and like your health doesn't go to shit where they, you know, you're in the hospital,

they quarantine here. It's like, you know, it starts innocent and it gets worse over time. So the infectious period is so much longer that there's basically no way to quarantine this thing. There's no way for us to contain this. And so what the article was saying was like, Ironically, because it is not as fatal and is not as bad for you right away, this thing is going to be unstoppable, most likely case. Second thing with that was, I guess there's four, like, you know, typical strains of the flu, which is why you can get your flu shot and still catch the flu every year. So because there's these four different strains and the vaccine doesn't cover sort of all the different variations. And so this guy's case was that most likely this is now just a fifth annual, you know, strain that we're. we're going to have to live with and it's just going to suck.

It's a very, very, you know, kind of a downer. Also, I'm sure, you know, sort of the bio nerds out there are going to be like, no, there's 15 million strains. That's right. But like, that's the summary that I took away. And if you want to just get the point, that's the point. And so what you have up here is D to C stuff. So like my, I looked at my portfolio yesterday.

I was like, fuck. So lost money yesterday off the stock market. So crazy shit's happening all around. So generically stock market, you know, people get paranoid. Bonds, you know, people flee to bonds, stock goes down, that sort of thing. other funny stuff happening. You know, Zoom, the conferencing software. So the stock ticker Zoom goes up 50% today.

Wait, shit, it's up 50% today? But wait, there's more. It's the stock ticker Z-O-O-M. Zoom. But that's not Zoom's actual handle. Zoom's actual handle is Z-M. So people are buying the wrong stock because they think people are going to be working from home

and teleconferencing in. And so they're buying Zoom, which does something else altogether. It's a very small cap stock. I don't know. Henry, check what the stock. for Z OOM actually does. God bless.

And it's a tiny stock, so it jumped 50% today and like, you know, but you can actually predict this because this happened also at the IPO. Whoever bought Zoom the other thing got a huge pop at Zoom's IPO because of this. I love when we could have predicted this one.

I love when that happened. But all kinds of fucked up things. Some other things. Smart friends are basically saying, Hey, if you need my smart friends, my smart friends, you know, people who actually read the real information and like understand how the world works.

They were like, hey, if you need prescription drugs, but you should start stockpiling because most of it's coming from China and the supply chain globally is fucked. And like the world doesn't have like friend of a friend basically. How the fuck do you stockpile prescription meds? Basically buy a buyer refills. And so there's no global plan B for what happens if China gets sick or slowed down. We don't have another like supply chain.

And so all kinds of things are suffering. And I have friends that have D to C companies that buy their ship. They're backed up. And they're saying, shit. Yeah, months backed up. I was talking to a supplier yesterday, and he was like, even if we come back to work, there's, you know, all the other factories that we depend on, the printing factory, the packaging guys. And they're not coming.

Like, the workers are just not coming back. Because in most factories in China, the workers don't actually live in that city permanently. So for Chinese New Year, which is when this happened. So Chinese New Year is a month-long holiday. Yeah, well, we have a Chinese intern. He told us all about it. He goes, he goes, it's the largest travel day in the world. because every Chinese person

Everybody goes home And when they go home They go back to very rural areas And already there's this problem Where they don't come, you know, often They don't come back Because you know, they don't want to be living In some other city working in a factory

But with this, people are just not coming back And so there's no replacements It's like a very dire situation And like obviously at a human level Also incredibly dire situation So to turn shit into gold Where's the opportunity here? I mean, what's going to happen?

Do you think that this is going to impact have long term impact with China making shit and you're going to have to go elsewhere? I don't know. So there's a question of like so two theories. One is for stuff like this, the people who are going to do really well, they didn't start now. They started something two years ago, a blog on being a prepper or whatever. And today's your day. You know, like this is your month. And so I don't think the, I don't know how much I am interested in the sort of like

today opportunity also feels kind of fucked up. We talked about Judy the other day. Right. The Judy sort of Survival kits or bags. My friend Joe Spicer bought something from like survivor kit.com and he got an email from them saying we have a hundred times our normal volume. We apologize, but we're going to make it happen. Right. So those, the Judy thing that which, uh, the respiratory masks, those are not in the Judy bag, but the respiratory masks are just like out of stock. You can't get them.

And that's like the thing you need is like to protect your nose and mouth. Yeah, that's long gone. No one can pounce on that. Yeah. Um, we covered this guy who launched a couple of. called um judy is it judy judy it's a emergency kit yep an orange like emergency backpack ready to go my uh my wife texted me today and said let's go and buy a bunch of stuff i feel the same way more people are doing this have you ever been in an emergency situation by the way have you

ever like been in a city when like a flood happens or anything like that it's really bizarre how it feels no i was in hawaii our honeymoon there was a hurricane in hawaii oh i left right when i was there and so we went to the grocery store and at first we go to the hotel and they're like hey um we have early checking available. And we're like, well, that's cool. Thanks. Because we're a honeymoon. And they're like, no, we just have like a lot of open rooms.

I was like, what's going on? They're like, well, have you seen the weather report? Like, there's a hurricane this week. And of course, I don't check the weather. So I book my honeymoon on a hurricane week. And so we go to the grocery store and it's like the zombie attack has happened. Like all the water bottles are gone. Like the shelves are empty.

People are just checking out like four cartsworth. It's really like, it's an odd, eerie, eerie feeling when that has. happens. Yeah, this thing, my issue, here's an opportunity if someone wants to go for, is, you know how poll, uh, is it, uh, there's a politico check. That was called political, political fact. You mean like the fact checking thing? Yeah. I don't know what it's called, but yeah. So what you do is like, did Bloomberg really say this? Right. And it goes, that's what I want for a coronavirus right now. I don't know what true and what is it. So there's a blog called, I believe it's called the prepared.com. It is exactly what you want. It is plain English.

It's like, here's the facts, not the overreaction. And by the way, we'll tell you about the overreaction and why it's an overreaction. But here's the facts. What's it called? Presented in a calm way. The site is beautiful. It works great on your phone. I tweeted at the guy who started.

I was like, this is a like, thank you for making this. Yeah, I was like, thank you for making this site because this is exactly what I need in this situation. It auto filled nicely. A bunch of people must be going to. I feel like it's right. He's selling kits. He's selling kits. Oh, God.

This guy's awesome. Cool. I'm into this. So, scary situation. Yeah, scary all around. Best of luck to everybody. Yes, for sure. Okay, you want to move on?

Yeah, let's move on. Okay, I have a few interesting things that happened. Cool companies that we can talk about. The first thing is something that has made a huge impact on me, and I think more people need to take advantage of it, which is transparent numbers. So basically, there's a group of people out there who believe that transparency is good,

and they share all of their revenue. They share every metric about their business. business as deep as everyone's salary, their bank balance, churn, how much it costs to acquire a customer, how much a customer stays on for, everything. Some are a little bit less. Well, they'll share how many customers they have, how much revenue they have, what their bank balance is. More people should follow these businesses. I, for one, I'm totally against that. I don't think you should ever reveal that, but I'm happy they do. Yeah. So some examples. So throw them out. Okay. So first of all, my friend,

Oncore. What's Encore's last name? He runs Teachable. I don't remember his last name. If you Google on, can you tell me Oncores last name? Founder of Teachable. Okay, so he reveals on Twitter the valuation of every round. What is it? Nagpal. Yes. Naq Paul. He reveals the valuation of every time they just raised like 20 million bucks at a whatever. 200, something really good. And he reveals how much revenue they have, how many customers they have. It's awesome. Yes. I love that.

The other guy is Sahil. Sahil from Gumroad. Shitty business. Seems like an awesome guy. He reveals every single month. You could Google Gumroad founder, Sahil. It's on his Twitter. He doesn't have to tweet lands sitting after, you don't even have to dive into the books.

Yeah. Here's 10040 characters. Joel from Buffer, he does this. They actually just switch. So if you go to Bear Metrics.com or Google Bear Metrics, they have like 18 different companies that do this. And it's pretty cool. And Joel from Buffer used to be on there.

they're a $22 million your company, so pretty valuable. And they would reveal everything. Employee salaries, like name, salary, equity, you know, level, everything. And you know what? They're changing. They're showing less and less. Have you talked to them? Do you know why?

It becomes problematic when you add more people. Yeah. Duh. It's like, you know, guy, you know, creates, you know, turns his kitchen into a man cave instead, gets a girlfriend and is like, oh, she doesn't like it. It's like, yeah, no shit, man. Like, I could have told you this. Like, when you bought the plasma and put it on the fridge. Grow up, Joel.

People don't like their salary being public. What? So they still do salary. They still do equity. People get upset when they see their coworker who slacks off and works from home two days a week. And they see his salary. Because people don't understand that, like, different people have different situations. It's not like.

So they did it, I think, in a smart way, which is they basically were like, they used it as customer acquisition. Yeah, it's part of their story because they got their ass. kicked by HubSpot. And so they like, I'm sorry, uh, hoot sweet. You know, this has become a bit of a playbook for small business to business SaaS companies, which is, look, you know, acquisition of customers is hard. What, my customer is a small business owner?

What would bring a small business owner to me? What content could I put out there that would make a small business owner come? So instead of saying seven tips to have more effective meetings, they were like, here's our, here's our P&L for this month. And sure enough, a lot of people wanted to see that. So a lot of people discovered their product through this. And so, you know, maybe this lines up totally with their values and that's why they did it. But definitely it was a great way for people to discover their business.

I didn't use Buffer, but I read all their shit. And if anybody ever needed a solution like Buffer, I was like, oh, buffer, you should use Buffer. Why? Because otherwise I wouldn't have even known about them. And so this was a pretty counterintuitive thing that they did. And they were the only ones doing it. And so you always get paid when you're the only one doing it if it's juicy. Yeah.

And so one more person who's doing it. And his business is way better than Buffer Act. I love this guy's business. So it's my friend Nathan Barry. I've met Nathan a while ago. And Nathan has this company called ConvertKit. They do close to $2 million in monthly recurring revenue. So $24 million.

He owns 100% of it. It's probably $100 to $200 million company. Like it's really valuable because once customers are locked in, it's basically a MailChimp competitor. It's an email. That seems high. $2 million a month you said? Oh, that's for sure.

That's how much they do. So they're doing $2 million. No, no, that part. So 24 million a year. So 24 million you think they're worth what? 10 times. 10 times. Okay.

It's growing like a weed. Maybe. People don't switch from their email platform. Yeah, it all depend on the retention. So can you pull up actually, can you open up their metrics? So just Google like Bear metrics dashboard or something. I forgot what the URL is, but it's like something. Dot Bearmetrics.com.

And it's like their whole company. It's like here's how many new customers we got. Here's how many people churned this month. It's like all their graphs. And you can use it for your company. He even showed how much profit they make each month. It's like, yeah, here it is. You got to zoom in.

There you go. So this, I don't know if this is their business or this is like the example thing, but it's like monthly recurring revenue, net revenue, fees. Yeah, that's not it. This is somebody else's business. You got to do convert kit. Yeah, do convert kit barometrics. Just type in convert kit revenue, maybe if you can't spell.

I also use convert kit. I actually, I pay for a subscription because I'm like, this product is so fucking powerful. I don't actually have many sequences set up. I have a sequence of one email right now, which is not a sequence. It's just an email. But I think it's a great product. I love ConvertKit.

I love Nathan. Nathan's a great guy. Nathan's only 26 or 7 years old. We talked about the idea of doing a drip sequence to build a newsletter for women going through pregnancy and like week by week. And I had a friend, or sorry, I had a random listener reach out on Twitter. I was like, I'm doing this. Here's my kind of unique asset I have to go about this.

And how should I set this up? And I sent him to convert kit. I was like, dude, your problem is going to be solved in like, you know, the next 90 minutes. Are people leaving bare metrics or something? Why can't you find it? Here you go. 1.7 million. Oh, is that it?

What's the URL? Yeah, so 1.7 million monthly recurring revenue. And you could just look at the... It'll say churn. So annual run, right, doing 20 million a year, which is up 1.7%. That's got to be how much this month. Revenue churn 5.1% per month. That's not bad.

It's not great either. Well, it's because it's a small to medium business. Like, if you're churning 5% a month, that's a, Like, what's the net growth? So 5% a month is the churn. What's the new business every month? One and a half percent. It's low.

One and a half percent. Yeah, so he's net negative then per month. No, I think that that churn, that growth number takes into account churn. I see. Okay, gotcha. Oh, okay. That's the net. But this is because it's the average revenue kind of even says.

So they make on average $60, is it $60 a month per user? Right. The thing on the right. A small, medium business is going to have a higher churn. better other stats but dude if you're if you're a real sicko you can just look at the live stream on the right and see every minute when somebody pays them it'll say like right now it says $29 paid by you know you know anonymous company um dude he's got a lot of failed payments here you get on that nathan what's going on you can't be failing his three out of the 12 payments here

are failed four he has a chart that says which ones fail so these these companies are badass i so you wouldn't do it no i think what about a part of what you do the email list size the revenue. I don't want to share anything publicly. Well, I'll say like eight figures or something. No, I just don't think it brings a lot of good either. You know when a company's trying to raise or sell their business because like two months before all these articles will come out, just like handing over handing over information. Why is that happening? Because they want to raise their round or they want to sell their company within the next six months. Can you go to the next, go back to the Google Doc? No, I'm not a fan of it. One time when I did my first conference when I was younger,

It made like 60 grand in profit, and I told everyone in the blog post, and I hated the attention. So I'm never going to do that again. Okay, so let's talk about pipe.com. You know pipe.com? I saw this, and I was like, dude, this is awesome. I came to a little scratch pad to write it down, and you already had it written down. Okay, so here's what here's, let me set the stage here. So when you have a subscription business, I'm talking about software subscription, but maybe it could work for all types of stuff.

What happens is you do one of two things. The first is you say, all right, you sign this deal and you owe us $200 a month. And so that is a $2,400 a year subscription service. And the company that is your customer will pay you $200 a month. What a lot of companies prefer to do, but this is actually a lot harder is they say, all right, you signed one year contract. Let's get all of your payment up front. Right.

Now, here's the balance here is do you want, or this is what people think. They can either get more customers and allow them to pay monthly. Right. Or they can get less customers, but allow them to pay annually and get all of that cash flow up front. And what's it called Pipe? What they do is if you have a business like ConvertKit and they have a history of three years and it says, look, every month our turn rate historically is 5%. Pipe can go, okay, so you have all these customers paying you each month. Let's just, I don't know how they discount it, but they probably, they probably discounted it a lot. So they de-risk it. And this will say, well, let's just assume that you're going to have 20% monthly churn. Right.

We're just going to, we'll give you all that money up front and you owe us as the money comes in with a little bit of interest. Right. Awesome. Awesome business. So I have so many thoughts. All right. So a couple things. First, the financial infrastructure, what's really going on here?

The financial infrastructure for software companies and tech businesses is being rebuilt. So we already had investors, right? Angel investors, seed investors, uh, series A investors, blah, blah, blah. But then you have a bank for startups. Mercury started by, you know, some successful founders from Hayzap. They started Mercury. It's supposed to be a bank designed for startups. And then you have things like Brex or Ramp, which we talked about, which is like business credit card designed for startups because the legacy institutions don't understand how to value these companies, how to fund and finance these companies.

Then you have things that are, you know, like marketplaces where you put buy and sell to buy and sell online businesses like Quietlightlight Brokerage or wherever. You have due diligence firms that pop up that specialize in software businesses like Centurica. then you have, you know, guys like Pipe, which basically say, great, you know, you have a cash flow problem, but you have steady, we know you have a predictable book of business. We will give you the cash up front and we'll take a VIG off the top of that. And so I think these are all really smart businesses, each one at a different part of the financial stack for software technology companies. We use it. It's Pipe, but for media and publishers. And Pipe has raised 70 million in funding.

They're kind of stupid because we use them. and we have a million, millions of dollars in credit from them, and we won't leave them because it's a wonderful service. But the reason why they're kind of stupid is because the market's a lot smaller than software and the numbers are a lot smaller. I think Pipe will be a multi-billion dollar company. Yeah, or the one problem with these is there's a lot of competition. Yeah, I think the aggregate will be.

So, for example, there's also happening on the customer side, right? So companies like a firm or Sezzle or afterpay. Yeah, that's on the consumer side. but same idea, which is like they're trying to provide different financial instrument that like the traditional financial company, like the current sort of incumbents aren't really figuring out how do we help e-commerce companies sort of how do we help merchants, you know, turn their products into monthly payments for their customers. But a firm came out and did it and fast pay, sorry, not fast pay, after pay. I think after pay is like an $8 billion company or something like that in Australia. a firm is a multi-billion dollar company here doing the exact same thing and they're all fighting over these merchants. I love this shit, man. I say fuck the big banks.

I fucking hate them. I hate them so much. I hate having to talk to our rep. They don't understand me. They don't understand what we're doing. So Ishaan, the producer and editor for the podcast, he had an idea. So I asked him one day because I have him on a sort of my right-hand man. So sometimes I just ping him with just random questions.

I said, what's the biggest idea in your head right now? I was like, you know, what's the biggest startup idea you got? And, you know, he's 20, 21 years old. I don't know exactly how old he is, but he's a young guy. And so he goes, well, I've been a, you know, freelancer contractor for you and not many other people for last few years. And he's like, why doesn't a sort of fast pay or pipe exist for contractors? Like, I have my invoice. Just give me the money now.

And then you wait to like when the company pays, you take it and you take 5%. It's a big idea off the thing. And I've actually heard this idea a few times before of like, you know, my wife was a, you know, a consultant for you know and so she always got paid like this on a 30 or 60 day cycle and she's she she would have you know 20 grand sitting in outstanding payments if she could just get the 20 grand you know headache free she would take 1950 you know she would take 19000 out of that just to get the money now and not have to keep following up via email to be like hey have you paid it yet and like all that stuff and so the problem seems real and this is more of a question to the audience of like

what am i wrong about what don't i get about this idea seems like a great idea on the surface. What's the problem with this idea? Because I've heard it bandied around a few times over the years. It's not a super niche idea. I think a lot of people could have this idea. So what's wrong with it? And I think that you can learn just as much from common ideas that don't work as you can from great ideas that do work. If you start to identify, why does this seemingly good idea not work? Why have people tried and failed over and over again? There's a lot to learn as an entrepreneur. Yeah, I'm digging that. So pipe.com's out. I'm loving those things. Yeah, one thing. Hey, Henry, there's a guest downstairs. Would you mind letting her in? And she's going to join us for like the next segment. Um, Julia, what's up? Hi. How are you? Doing well. Thanks for

having me. You're already in my good books because you actually listen to the podcast. Not all the guests do. I do my homework. Yeah. There you go. Can I do my homework? Yeah. Yes. I have a, there's a bunch of employee fans. Great. Um, they found out and it was, I mean, like, they'd been really gunning for me to have a chance. Shout out to them. Do you have like that, like, corny name for your employees, like, Everly, millions are what literally it oh my god okay is that really it well but then everyone's like hey did you just like come up with that because that is not that great um and so i think like you know someone better with words is like how about just everlies oh that's right that sounds much better we've shifted it to that do you guys have this for the hustle do you have like Fuscelonians or some shit No say no Yeah

You're fired actually if you say something like that At the hustle No Right Just people Yeah exactly You know with Bebo Somebody tried to like do that

And I was like thank God There's not a nice one Because I don't want this as like a thing Yeah Bieber's that would have been it By the way I'm followed by Justin Bieber on Twitter No big deal For real Yeah so

Cross 10,000 followers And Justin Bieber follows me I DMed him He did not reply How many people does he follow It's got to be one of those bots that just follows people. I don't know. Henry, Justin Bieber, number of followers.

We'll find out. The only way this can go is down for me where he follows millions of people. It's not a low number, my friend. It's not a low number. Yeah, okay. I'm one of the top 300,000 friends of Justin Bieber. So let's just leave it. That's better than I would have thought.

I thought the number was going to be like 10 million. Okay, so speaking of names, so you're Julia Everlywell is your company name, but your name's Julia Cheek. Yes. That's a cool name. Thank you. I hate my last name. And so I'm always thinking like of, you know, just totally rebranding it to something cool.

But then I know people will be like, did you just change your last name to try to sound cool, which is probably the least cool thing you can do. I kind of got the opportunity to do that. Yeah. Because I decided I had a choice to do Julia Taylor made an name or if I wanted to when I got married take on cheek. Yeah. And it was just sort of did it. You did it. Okay.

Great. And so for people listening who are like, okay, great, who's this person? Why are they joining the show? give us the like 30 seconds about what's interesting about you. Yes. So I'm Julia Cheek. I'm the founder and CEO of Everly Well. We are based in Austin. We are about to celebrate our five-year anniversary, which is hard to believe. Probably the most interesting thing about me starting this company is I started a company in the blood testing space in the direct-to-consumer space coming with no entrepreneurial background or healthcare background whatsoever. Right. And had every kind of X in the box of why you wouldn't.

Right. You were a consultant, right? I was a management consultant. Where? And I went at Deloitte, got my MBA, had a really traditional Harvard. Had a really traditional corporate. Sam's all about the pedigrees. Yeah. I hate it.

I don't care. Sam's like Harvard. Okay, I'm in. Yeah. There's definitely some interesting ties I think that turned me on to being an entrepreneur when I was there. But certainly, like, I was really on the corporate path. And then had this idea when I was working at MoneyGram and left my job to do it.

And I can confidently say 100% of people who know me was like, I'm definitely going to fail. Yeah. So what's the company do? Yeah. So when I was five years ago, when I was working at Moneygram, I had a bunch of all these unexplained health symptoms. This is super common, which you hear from women in their late 20s and their 30s,

as they have chronic fatigue, aches and pains. They're not taken seriously at doctors. And so I went to five or six different doctors on good health insurance. And each of them ran different blood tests. I never got my results. I paid over $2,500 out of pocket. Nothing material showed up. was communicated to me. What do you mean you never got your results? Like you personally didn't receive it?

I personally received it. Right. The doctor looks at it. Even if they called me like I missed the call. Nobody ever called. They said we'll call you up and things abnormal. Well like what does that mean you tested a hundred different things like just because something's not totally out of whack doesn't mean there's not interesting or useful information there. So I sat down and I looked at the health insurance landscape and I thought man people are going to have to start paying for all this in a more meaningful way than we are today. and I'm at least confident that my cohort of women between like 25 and 45 can't get the testing that they need. Right. And I think I can solve that.

And so it really started out, honestly, not that it wasn't a big vision, but it was a little bit like if you think about the first group you're solving a problem for, that's what we launched for. So today we have 35 different tests on I Reallywell.com on Amazon, Target, CBS, Kroger. We work with Humana, and we offer consumer-initiated testing for everything from STI testing, heart health, food sensitivity. basically is it every test it's like 90% of common test coverage did you raise money the doctor I've raised over 50 million dollars from 5-0 you said 5-0 from West and East Coast VCs that was after obviously having like three rounds of clawing my way through funding and then suddenly things did get easier and we actually grew from zero to see we did 40 million in sales last year yeah wow our third year in operation is that okay no

coronavirus, but fist pound for the 40 million. Especially for the healthcare entrepreneur and we have to learn not to do that. We were just talking about coronavirus. Do you guys sell coronavirus tests? Yeah, you know, if we did, I think I wouldn't be here right now. Yeah, you'd be busy. Doing something else, but I'm hopeful there's progress as we learned today from Gilead and a couple other companies.

I'm hopeful someone's close on it. So, no, we don't have that, unfortunately. Are those one-time purchases, the 40 million? No, I mean, it's a combination of new customer acquisition and repeat. We have a really healthy repeat business because a lot of our tests are things like cholesterol. But it's not recurring is what I mean. It's not recurring. We do have enterprise contracts that are recurring for Medicare.

Right. But it's a mix of what I would call one-time repeat and then actual recurring contracts, which is there's challenges, there's good and bad. I think when you have a one-time heavy business up front, you have to build a good set of unit economics from the get-go so that you're not just optimizing on this like promise of payback. Right. Right. So that's been good for us.

On the other hand, we've had to be super, super disciplined in a way that I think some of it have been. Right. And so you're based out of Austin. You do this D to C at home test that then gets sent to a lab, a partner lab. They analyze it. You get the full report. It's like, here's everything. Here's what's interesting about this.

You can share it. It's like the way that it should be. Like if you didn't even, you didn't have to like invent this. If you just asked a lay person, you're like, how should this work? That's the description. And then you just made that. happen in real life. The other thing that's interesting is you were on Shark Tank.

I was. So as a fan of reality TV, me and Sam both watched the challenge, probably the trashiest reality show that there is. Well, tonight's the season finale of the Netflix one. Of which one? No, the one where they get married after a living in a room. Love is blind? Yeah.

Didn't it all come out already? Didn't they just release it? Today. I'm at episode three of that one. Good show. It's pretty awesome. Pretty good show. Have you seen it yet?

Do you know the premise? I do know the promise. They put people in rooms and they don't see each other. Yes, so it's actually pretty cool as a experiment. Oh, they have to get married. Yeah, they have to get married. Or you get caught off the show. Like, literally, you don't even get like eliminated survivor style.

They just edit you out. Like, you're just not shown ever again if you didn't propose. And so what ends up happening is it's 10 days behind a wall. You talk to this person and you're speed dating basically behind a wall. So you're kind of like deciding who you like. And then someone proposes through the wall. So they're like, can you come close to the wall please? I'm on a knee now.

And I want to, you know, ask you to marry me. And then, but the thing is that I thought that's where the show would end. But then they, like, put them in the real world together. And they're like, all right, you're going to get married in 30 days and see what happens. And it's pretty interesting stuff. So, good job, Netflix. I'll be asking her about. I was actually a Shark Tank because tell me about how it came about.

You applied many times, one time. How did you get on? Yeah. So Shark Tank was an, honestly, I am a huge fan of the show. I also am a huge fan of my own experience. And that's not, I think, what everyone has to say. but I always tell people I think it can be a really game-changing thing for entrepreneurs if you do it the right way.

It is a lot of freaking work, a ton of work. Really? Once you're on or before you're on? Before you're on. Okay. So I would say like, so I, we aired in November of 2017. Go to the beginning. How'd you even audition?

I know. It was like a nine-month process of, I would say the year of 2017, 80% of my year was just starting really the thing. So we applied, and by WeMe, it's like a 50-page written application. Online or? No, it is printed and written out. I tried to like use a PDF editor. It takes forever.

Yeah, like it was like a decade ago. So you write this whole thing up. I write this whole thing out. I will be honest. I was, I was a finalist at TechCrunch Battlefield in 2016. The producer scout from Battlefield. Gotcha.

So they reached out maybe. Oh, that's cool. So it's kind of like if you're thinking about American Idol maybe, which I would ever be, but you either can get contacted and sort of putting the front and tradition or you kind of point in line. So it's not that I had necessarily. necessarily a better chance, but I did get a shortcut into the application process. So filled that out.

The application probably takes 40 hours. And then you have to sign all their contracts and basically sign your identity and image away to ABC for in perpetuity. And then from there you do a voice interview with producers. You do a video interview as well with the application. Then another video interview of your pitch. And then from there, the producers work with you for about four months. To get it right. Like, what is your story? What is your brand? What is your script? That's crazy.

Ultimately your, what I think people don't realize. It's a human interest story. It's a human interest story. You are there to make good reality TV, but it is your decision. Right. The producers will help you and advise you, but this is your gig, and it's up to you to decide how you want to display yourself on TV. But do you still remember your, do you still remember your opening? Because you probably drilled it like a thousand times.

I did. And I will tell you, I thought I was like really good and comfortable at public speaking. And then I did this and I was like, okay, I was really bad. And now I'm comfortable. Did you raise money from them? I did. So I signed or I shook on the largest deal ever for a female entrepreneur valuation. Wow.

So yeah, with Lori Grenier. She is on board. She's been tremendous. Because of QVC or what? For me, it was really, at the time, we had no brick and mortar retail presence. And I knew that that was a priority for us to create a product that was actually accessible and ubiquitous. And that's actually, I'd say, been a really good move for us. but I felt that she would be invaluable in helping us to get into some of those stores.

Yeah. She really helped with packaging and branding and making something that's accessible when you're trying to like sell a testing kit where either people think it's a DNA kit. Right. Or they have no idea what it is. Right. Being able to differentiate that when you have like 10 seconds to grab. How much of a check did she write?

So the deal we shook on was... Why do you keep saying shook? Because there's the shake on it and then there's the actual deal. What's the actual deal? I can't disclose that. Oh, come on. It was different, yes. Better or worse?

Better for the company. And it's probably better for Lori. And better because why does the deal change? So normally there's like they do diligence and they might change it probably for their favor. You're saying it went better for you guys. How does it improve? After you shake on the deal on the show, a fair number of those deals, I think it's something like over half never come to fruition at all. And then another quarter or so actually change and then another quarter get done at the terms that you should have.

I've had a bunch of friends say they screw them. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, each shark has a different approach. So like I, they're totally, you then go into their management company, right? So you're going into Mark Cuban companies or Lori Gernier's companies. And so it's not a,

I don't know what each shark's process is. I can say Lori's was super fair. They go through very detailed diligence on everything. But, but you know what? The show actually does diligence on you. They have a venture analyst on board. So they run diligence on you before you ever pitch.

What was your valuation that you guys agreed on? I pitched, my valuation was 20 million post money. And how much did she invest? So that would say, how much did they agree on? It was a line of credit deal at an 8% interest rate for 5% of the company. And was it like, you know, hey, deal offer on the spot or do you have this like long pause where you're like, can I think and write this down? Well, in my case, every shark was out. And I actually knew I wanted either Lori or Mark Grin.

Sorry, Lori or Mark Cuban. And so I was really excited about it. And so I really did want to work with her. And it was a good deal. So I actually sat on the show because you're supposed to negotiate. I said, because it makes good TV. Yes. And so I said, I know I'm supposed to negotiate, but I want to take this deal.

Right. So I didn't. You do have, it is really what you see. Like you can exit, you can talk about it with your partner. You can call a lifeline or a friend. They may edit that out or whatever else. But you can take a minute to think about it. What's something people don't see or don't realize that is different from having actually gone through it versus watching it?

What's one difference? I think people know it's edited. I don't think people realize how long the actual time filming can be from when you walk in and walk out to like what they edit down to five minutes. So it varies. But mine is probably an hour and they edit it to seven minutes. Some people have gone on up to two to three hours. Some are 15 minutes, right? And so I think you know it's edited to a degree, but I don't think you realize how much discussion actually.

actually happens. Was Lori investing her own money? She is investing her own money. Always. So then does she have a fun or is it literally just hers? It is in a fun structure but it's her capital. How much you think she's worth? You know I don't know. I will say she is a prolific salesperson in the sense that like the top three or four companies from Shark Tank and I mean companies that have done like a quarter of a billion in sales. Squatty potty. Yeah, she has a relationship with each of those companies and it invested in each of those companies. So I suspect quite a bit,

not to mention her own patent portfolio in the success she's having products. She's a great team. But do those pay cash flow? I mean, who cares if you, I mean, it's important, but if you own equity in that business. Yeah, and there's not an exit.

Yeah, so where is her cash coming from? I don't know, I don't know. I'd be very true. Sam's going to get to the bottom of this. Because I also... It seems a very green fat checks. Well, and I also don't know... She takes that Saudi money.

Each deal is different, right? So, like, she does it, Just like an NVC deal is different, right? She's negotiating a deal with me. Right. I don't know what terms are, you know, with the rest of her companies. I do know she has put all of these companies on the map from scrub daddy to squatty potty. These companies have incredible consumer products.

She delivers. Yeah. I've got a squatty puppy. So you do? I'm telling you, I think it seems to be actually, I don't have one, but it does seem. I mean, it does seem very popular. Apparently. So how much traffic did your site get?

Oh, yeah. So we got... This back three years ago? It was November. Which would be even better than now because there's more people watch TV more than. Right. And it aired the night before Cyber Monday. It was Thanksgiving weekend.

Couldn't have been a better day. Although my poor team, they were wonderful. They canceled all their Thanksgiving. It was a lot of work. But we got about 30 times our normal traffic. But we had an interesting experience. We didn't have this tremendous, like, huge spike the night of in terms of purchases. But we ended up doing about a million dollars in sales, which at the time was a tremendously large number for us in like the four-day period after the show.

So there's been a little bit of this interesting thing for us that I haven't heard many of their companies have, which is we doubled, like we doubled in that week on a run rate standpoint, and then we continued doubling the next month, and we never had that decline. Right. But we didn't have this spike in like the three-hour period that we aired. Yeah, we had a lot of traffic. Do you know how much traffic it was? A million sessions. A million uniques in 24 hours? Yeah.

So, and we did, I mean, we had to, I mean, at the time we were not set up for that scale. Now we didn't have to think about it. We know we've always been on, um, uh, on, um, Lou commerce, not WooCommerce, not Shopify. Big commerce. We built on it now and like totally customized it. Something else. I know, but it's one of the big ones that actually, I think we should have gone to Shopify,

but we didn't. Gotcha. So I should, now I shouldn't name them because it's going to sound bad. Right. Shout out to Toby from Shopify. Yes. Exactly. I like to think he's listening.

Yeah. So, might be. We're trying to get them on. I was going to say that valuation, right? Yeah, that value. So. You also streams on Twitch.

Great guy. So, yeah. So we saw really good traffic increase, but it was a very different pattern. And Lori warned us about that. She said some companies, it's like they sell out immediately. And some companies,

it's just a slow, kind of slow burn. So that was what it was with us. But we did not crash, which was essential. I have a bunch of questions. Do you have some? I have some not about Shark Tank, though.

I mean, me neither. Close the chapter on Shark Tank. I know enough about a shark tank down. There may be a, there may be an upcoming, an upcoming thing there. You're become back as one of the glory children. Potentially. Potentially. We are actually in two years with a number, I think we're number 10 on the all-time bestselling list.

Right. What's number one? Squatty potty. What's the socks? Bombas. Oh, they were on there too? Yeah, number one. I didn't realize that.

God damn. 250 million in sales. Yeah. Shit. Yes. I'm wearing bobbles right now, I think. You have bombos? Yeah, I went on Twitter, I said, what's the best sock money can buy?

When we sold the company, I was like, I'm going to buy unlimited of the best sock. That was the thing I'd always told myself. That's cool. When I become a millionaire, unlimited best socks. And bomb us was like what everybody said. Do you love that? Yeah, I love them, but I need more. That's all.

Like, I ran out. Yeah. Yeah, I bought the, whatever, the, like, 60 pair or whatever. But, like, I think I need, like, 500 pairs of socks. Like, laundry. You know, that's, like, one of the best hacks you could do is what I did was I bought, I only have one pair of underwear. but I own like 30 of them and one pair of socks and I own 50 of them.

Yeah. So I'd never match socks. Yeah. It's the greatest hack ever. Yes. I've been doing since I was 18. Should we? Applaw.

Okay, so I got a question for you. So let's say I buy the product. What do I actually do at home when I take the test? Like physically, what is, what do I have to do? So this, people are often surprised how many people we get to take their blood at home, but that's often what it requires. So, like, most of our testing is pricking your finger to draw a small, sample of blood. Some are saliva, some are urine. But obviously there's a reason why they normally

take your blood at a lab. It's because you can analyze the most number of markers and the broadest assortment of markers using blood. So it's dried blood spot testing. It's like a very frankly old school model. Your method? Yes, Quest, Lab Corps, all of the labs have dried blood spot testing. What does that mean? In LON? It just means you're just a finger. You're breaking a finger and you're dropping blood onto a three-rate paper or a treated device that is then the blood is then drying. But you guys aren't doing the test.

We're not. They're not. You're a middle person. We're a middle person, which if you were a VC responding to me back in 2016, I was a marketing company. Right. That's what I was going to say,

but I didn't want you to take offense. No, I don't take offense. They own the customer relationship. So, like, that's the most important part. Right. And I think, you know, it's interesting when you're like, oh, you're just a middleman or you're just marketing. But I really view us more as,

okay, the labs are our manufacturing partners, right? You don't buy things directly from manufacturers typically, right? You buy them from a brand. Who's your provider? So we have seven different partner labs we work with. Probably the one that runs the majority of our business is Perkin Elmer, which is a publicly traded life sciences company. They're huge.

They're global. And they've been really a good partner to scale, and they have a lot of credibility. They're the worldwide leader in dry blood spot testing. Right. Of the 50 million. Drive blood spot testing. I know, but you know what?

Like for us in our space and we're in the medical space, it's really important to have that stamp, especially with all the failures. So I really want you to hear Sam's thoughts on food allergy testing. Sam, take it away. I'm excited. Let's go. I think that a lot of them are bullshit.

Yeah. Am I right or wrong or what are you? I think it depends. We talked about this earlier. It's important and it's, um. But they do every test though. We do every test. It's okay if I don't buy one of them.

You know, it's interesting. Well, first of all, so to correct you, there's a major difference between a food allergy and celiac disease and then a food intolerance or a food intolerance. That's what I'm referring to is intolerance. Okay. So, but just for, you know, listeners, I think it is important because even doctors just say allergy and sensitivity is the same thing. I compare the intolerance test to chiropractory.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I think that it sounds good, but it doesn't work. You know, it's interesting. we have become associated, this food sensitivity testing in general has become associated with Everly well, which I suppose is like I'm proud of from a brand standpoint, but on the other hand, it's been going on for over 30 years and there's thousands of doctors that do both IGG-I-G-A testing

around the U.S. And most people that you talk to, if you've talked to them about food intolerance, they, oh yeah, I have that done at my allergist or I had it done it. nutritionist or my general practitioner, it has to be used in a specific context to be valuable. And so I do think that is why it's really important that you educate people and how it should be used. It should be used with an elimination diet.

It is not a be-all end-all. It's a guidance. It is something, it is our test where we have more people quantitatively say it's changed their lives than any other test. And there's good research around it for that use. What there's not good research around is saying like it's a diagnosis. you with an allergy. It can just be used as kind of a black and white guidance of what you shouldn't, shouldn't eat. That's absolutely not true. So I think there's a lot of misinformation.

I think there's a lot of different types of testing and the nomenclature gets mixed up for things it shouldn't be used for. And I think it's great that ever really well has been known as the brand for that. But honestly, we're offering a test that has been around for decades and needs to be in the right way. And if we can take the lead in educating people on what that should be, then we'll do that. What category of tests do you think is the biggest opportunity for What we call it sexual health, STIs. Yeah. And there's several reasons for that.

One, right now our tests are too highly priced because the lab itself is expensive for us to run the test. What's the price roughly? Right now, our single marker STDs are a really good price between $39 and $49. It's also HSA and FSA covered. So for some people, that's a great solution. But many people, for obvious reasons, want a comprehensive test. And that test is, I think, $2.19. Who's the leading the leading company in this space for STI?

At home. I keep saying STDs. That's our old school, high school thing they told us. Sexually transmitted infections is the correct nomenclature. We call it sexual health testing because we think that this is something people should just be proactive about. So who's the biggest in the space for digital? For at home. Yeah.

I would say it's probably us just from branding standpoint. There's a couple companies specialized. Sorry, I mean in revenue. You guys in revenue? Wow. Which, to be clear, should tell you how under- Reserved this opportunity. Because shouldn't that be like a multi-billion dollar revenue business?

Yes, this is a multi-billion dollar opportunity. Again, if we're going to rip, lots of other people can come into this space. There's a specific company that only does SDI testing, but they haven't been well-funded. They've struggled. And we really believe that this is not only how you can invest close public health gaps, you also can get people on board to then use testing it from home over their lifetime for any other. health issue as well. People don't want to go into a clinic. You don't want to go, period. Right. And our solution, you actually can not only get your results, but then you can

diagnose and treat through an independent physician if you have a positive, if it's a relevant STI that can be treated. So it's a full service solution. And what you're looking at right now is we have a really good business, but if you look at the price sensitivity, there's a certain age group that's going to be willing to pay 250 to go get a test versus going to a clinic. Are you acquiring customers profitably on first touch, or do you hope to lose money on them on their first touch and then hopefully come back? Profitably on first touch. That is, for me, we're in Austin. I'm a first-time founder.

We're building a sustainable business. We didn't go out and raise money on this premise of just negative contribution margin and then hoping to... And it's what? Facebook? Facebook's the main channel? No way, search. Well, it depends. Search for different categories, but search has a ceiling.

It does have a ceiling even with STI testing. But if you search STD tests online, you need. need that shit right now. Right. So for that category, certainly search is great for us, but Facebook slash Instagram was for a long time our largest acquisition channel, and both by force and by proactively moving away, we've really diversified, which has been a good move for our business. And what, TV now or no? Some TV, we've had mixed success with, we, again, because we are on this profitable unit economics from the beginning play, we, when we can't. can't fully measure attribution in ROI on first purchase.

Sometimes it's hard for us to want to invest. So we've had mixed success with TV, but we do believe it's important for brand building in category education. Is all that $50 million going into marketing spend? No, no. Engineering product, clinical. A lot of it goes into clinical and medical affairs. But you're not doing the clinical.

So what's the, is making sure the kit is as robust as it should be or what? Well, we have a regulatory and compliance team. Right. That ensures that either the lab partners we're working with There are new lab partners that were making sure that they're meeting the highest quality standards. We're starting our own research studies to prove outcome data, which will take time, but we think is really important. We do have obviously a healthy paid marketing budget, but we're trying to hire more in-house around content SEO,

organic and those pieces as we start to actually build out like a healthy marketing engine and not just be dependent on this like paid social thing that we were the last few years. Could you have bootstrap this? No. And that I think is a really... I feel like you would have if you could have. I would have if I could have. It's a really important question, though. If you just said, like, you're a marketing company, I'm like, oh, okay, so just white label this thing.

Do you see it and put this cute millennial pink on it and then just start buying traffic? Where is the, I mean, that's how simple it sounds. What were some of the challenges beyond the, like, you know, send traffic to a landing page and order this, like, white labeled product? Right. So we don't white label. We actually fully end-to-end construct and brand our kits. and really what the lab does is run the sample. That's the goal of the lab.

But there's also a really complex product from an engineering standpoint. So not only creating obviously what is somewhat basic an e-commerce site, but then a results platform that is able to speak with a third-party physician network, translate lab results that were often really messy, and then be able to say that in a meaningful way to consumers. And five years ago, that was not as easy from a, like, a U.S. standpoint as it is today. So a doctor interprets all the results? An independent physician.

Why couldn't they do something where they just like say like the normal ranges and if you are in range or out of range? So like I use wellness effects and they do a blood test and they just say like you. They also use a doctor. No shit. Really? It's for regulatory reasons. It's to make sure that you basically have a doctor in the process of saying, okay, I've made sure that this test is appropriate for you. I've made sure that if there are critical values.

So for example, if you took our SDI test and you had an abnormal, you would have a physician call you and talk you through next steps and offer you a telemedicine console. Yeah, so that wouldn't be. Right. And so there are checks and balances in place. You don't always have to interact with the doctor if it's just a normal result, but there's certain levels of escalation. And so when you're at the beginning.

It is similar to wellness FX. It's up to its home kits. And wellness FX really kind of stayed on the quantified sulfur brand and never was able to scale. That business totally fizzled. Yeah. Wellness FX. I thought it was going to be awesome. It's all right, though.

I use it, but it's not. like that's successful. But it's interesting. I mean, there have been a lot of companies, many, especially after Shark Tank. I would put it in the two dozen range that launch an Instagram, create a pretty logo, have a kit, and then about six months to 12 months later, you never hear from it again. Right. And it does speak to the power of brand marketing and experience. I mean, our NPS is a 60. We have a world-class customer base. I think in this case, first mover advantage really helped us in the category. It doesn't cause us to keep winning, but it mattered a lot here.

Right. So I'm not an MPS, I'm not super savvy with MPS, but is 60 good? I thought 60 would be sort of like middle of road. You compare it to, you have to compare it to others that are similar to you. Yeah, sure. For your industry. If you're a bank and you have a 60 MPS, you're the best bank on Earth. If you're a 60 but you're like a movie, then it's like, yeah, exactly.

World class would be like 80 or above, right? So certainly it's below that. But I think how we view it as we look at other healthcare services and most are around a zero to a negative. Right. Don't measure. Right. Right. And so we feel good about our product rating is four and a half out of five stars on average. And so we do look at that and say, okay, this has to be qualified. It's a very favorable VC metric, one that I think has sometimes limited actionability or limited kind of data-driven decision-making around. What do you do with it? But we like it in terms of saying, okay, just benchmark. Yeah, it's a good benchmark. So when you were starting this, because I'm thinking my sister is managing it, consultant, my wife is a manager consultant, and you have this idea, you're sitting at Delo. and you have this personal experience where, you know, you do this test and you're like,

this is crappy. That's what I'll call like every entrepreneur has the stated story, which is like, you know, I was trying to get a test and I just, you know, was so frustrated and therefore I decided to create a solution. And behind the state of story is like, you know, more of the real story. And our audience is very entrepreneurial. And they feel this on a day-to-day basis. They have these ideas.

They also have doubts. They want to vet the idea. So tell me, like, that. From the moment you had the idea that first couple weeks, you know, what was going through your mind? What were you doing? And what got you over the point where you were like, okay, I'm actually going to do this? Yeah, I think this is important because it is the real story, right? So I'm like, oh, I just had this idea.

Right. It's not a lie. We moved to Austin and a U-Haul. All those things are true. But there's a few things, my husband and I, and our dog. There's a few things that I think are important. It's not like I woke up one day and was like, oh, I'm going to go do this crazy thing. So I did go to Harvard and I was in this weird time.

It was during the recession in 2009 when everybody in my class and the class above me were becoming entrepreneurs. And so you had rent the runway, you had Birchbox, you had guilt a few years before, Stitch Fix, Oscar. I had two unicorn founders in my section alone. And at the time, grab taxi out of Korea. Yeah. Grabs huge. Oh, Ku-Pen. Okay.

Both in my section, right. So at the time, it didn't feel that unique, but I was being exposed to this day in and day out. And so I had this kind of roadmap for how to go about it once I started thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. And so the reality is I probably spent two years on the weekends in my spare time, not making any money, but going through different industries, different business models, advising different companies on their business plans and seeing like what would really stick. Do you have all that research saved? I do, but it's really like I look at it. It's kind of boring.

It's just to me. I don't know. I will send it, but it's like I would be very literal and how I would go about evaluating all these ideas. And honestly, Everleigh well was probably the craziest and the worst of the ideas for me to go and actually do, given my background. What were the other ones? No, it was like travel, luxury resale,

something like what the Real Real is doing. I mean, house decorating curation online, like all kinds of different spaces where there's probably opportunity any of those. Hey, you just described hows, so you're a two-for-shoe for-too for the dollar company ideas. To be clear, I don't know if I took an idea from them or if I actually came up on it. But, you know, the match with Everly Well was not necessarily one where you'd be like,

oh, it wasn't obvious. Right, it was not obvious. But it was the one where, like, I realized really early on, this is a decade-long thing. Right. So if it actually works, you're in it for a long time. So you did it right away? After you did this exercise, you sort of started it? It was a couple years, I mean, until I had this health experience in 2015, and then I kind of matched the two together.

So this was early 2015. I ended up incorporating the company June 18th, 2015, and then I left my job in August. And did you think of yourself as an entrepreneur? You said you were on the corporate path, but it sounds like you had dabbled in the idea of being an entrepreneur. Did you think of yourself that way? I didn't. Both my parents are lawyers. I didn't realize, one, that being an entrepreneur was actually a career choice and a path that you could

like become good at. That didn't necessarily mean financial success. You could be a serial entrepreneur and actually make that a career. And I also, frankly, didn't have a lot of confidence. So it was interesting at Harvard because I kind of looked around and thought, I think I'm just as smart as all these people who are like really founding successful companies.

Right. So maybe I can do it too. And I honestly did it just to see if I could do it. I never, like I truly couldn't even imagine having made a million dollars in sales. And so I'm not sure I necessarily. thought about what it would look like today. I just thought it was a really big opportunity and something that I wanted to see if I could go do.

And that was how I made the decision as I thought I'm passionate. I think it's a major thing. I was in the fintech space and I thought that was already really oversaturated by 2015. Tons of apps, etc. And so I knew that this was an area that I didn't care about. Turns out it was. Turns out I was a little wrong about that. But, and you know, I do think wellness FX is an example where I think they were just ahead of their time.

They were too early on the curve, right? Well, I think the folks who started are like scientists or something like that, or they're in the industry. And I actually think that's a weakness. You have to kind of be a marketer first. Or you don't have to be, but you have to have that part of you. You got to be aggressive. You have to, as you were an outsider, right, to this industry.

Completely. What opportunities have you uncovered where you tell people, man, just so you know, like there's this huge problem in this industry, I think it can be solved. What other adjacent things have you observed? Because I'm a total outsider, but when I hear about these types of businesses, I'm like, it's like if you can like solve a handful of problems, it's so easy to crush it. Price transparency, which may seem obvious.

And I think there's a lot of companies that talk about in healthcare doing price transparency, but they don't actually do it. And even the digital startup's trying to do it, they can't actually tell you what something will cost in healthcare. So we just go outside of insurance so that we can actually tell people what something will cost. But if you were able to do this in a really big way and say, hey, we can accurately tell you your cost commitment for this service. I think you would crush it. Within the insurance system. Within insurance, but I think there is a much, much larger growing acceptance of consumers who are happy to pay for something in health care as long as they know what they're going to get and what it costs.

And so I don't know that it has to be with insurance. You also have this HSA and FSA space that's exploding in terms of people. on FSA and HSA plans and then what they're using those dollars for. I think there's an interesting play there. So what does that look like? What's an example? Like if you started it... Of a company? Grow out a half-baked pitch.

That's okay, it's what we do. Man, if you could be a... So if you had physicians, and you said, okay, I'm going to have you pay $50 anytime you see the physician. We're going to own a pharmacy, and any of your drugs are going to be transparent, price and you can't use a coupon on everything as the same price and it's all generic. And then if you say, okay, and then I want to be able to get, you know, testing done and then

they can tell you the pricing on that. But here's a problem with it. You have to actually own the supply chain and the service chain. You have to be vertically integrated. You have to be vertically integrated to do this. Because otherwise, I know. But my point is you almost build a system external to the system. Right.

And you can do this at affordable pricing. The reason healthcare is so expensive. is because you're adding cost them to the system through the insurers. Right. And those contracts, and when you get the bills, you're getting the bill for whatever

they didn't want to cover, but that was intent, like the provider built the insurance company what they hoped the insurance company would pay. Not at all what it costs. What else? It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be healthcare.

It could be whatever. It could be personal life. You've discovered along the way. For example, when we started our company, we realized that like, paint freelancers is, I was like, wow, I didn't realize

how hard that was. So, like, along the way where you've, like, where you're your entrepreneur Are you the type that Do you keep a little notes out That's like Some of them get solved

So for example Like three years ago Two years ago On on Black Friday We had a bunch of compliance limits With our banking system On spend in Facebook So I was like gosh

I wish there was a product Where you could actually get like a Cash advance For social media advertising What are you using for that? Now we're big enough to where We don't have to use a product Like a Brexura

We just started talking about that Or like Clearbank Like ClearBank would do it. Right. So, but at that time, if those solutions had been around, we absolutely would have been able to take advantage of them. And then, of course, they came out. I was like, oh, that would have been a really good idea.

Yeah. But we really hit a bunch of challenges with that. And it really can bring down businesses. And then I think, you know, other places are how do you make, like, as you think about doing a startup, I mean, the amount of time we spend on contracts and HR and legal and templatizing. I mean, there's so much cost in the system that I would love to take out of it. In healthcare and in highly regulated industries, it's really hard to do things quick, dirty, and cheap.

And it's unwise. So what do you guys use for your company's health or your company's HR system? For our system. Like, like, paylossity. Paylossity. These really, like, we used to use gusto. But these really kind of heavy, clunky systems that look like they're, you know, for Fortune 500 companies. And there's nothing great between like a gusto and then the next step up that you need for all of

Right. And why do you use that? Why? Yeah. Versus Augusto? Yeah. Because the services start, they couldn't get all the functionality. It's like more sophisticated, more enterprisey.

Yeah, it's more enterprisey. But the jump between like, hey, you're less than 50 people to like, hey, we need something much more sophisticated and scalable is painful. And that's because you're paying all these physicians. That's an independent network, but we are paying all of our people. And we have a value. So these independent physicians, are they doing this? on the side of their normal practice? Are these freelancers?

Typically not. They work for another company. They're typically some are 1099, but typically in these structures, and there's a lot of these structures, be it a normal telemedicine company or these kind of separate entities. And they typically are either full-time employees, like doctor on demand entirely employs all their doctors. Right. Or some of them are so like HIMS is using one of these third parties to employ doctor. I don't know if they're using a third party or if they have their own. But those third parties exist? Those third parties exist. Are you in or out on the Hymns, Roe?

I'm in. I'm in. I'm heavily in. Oh, nice. And, you know, I think they've done especially Roe, has done a nice job of publishing their decision-making criteria around prescribing and how they weigh risk and how they have, I think, responded to a lot of the criticism in the space. Those companies are good for us because people still don't realize that you can get a medical product, whether it's a prescription or a test, consumer-initiated online and have it at home.

And so it helps just, I think, with the ecosystem. Yeah, I did my eye test at home, you know, because why would I want to go to the eye doctor if I could put my phone 10 feet away? Simple contacts. And so the first time you do that, you're like, okay, cool. Yeah, I'm not going to leave home if I don't have to. So next time I have a problem, great, food sensitivity. Let me use another at-home product. It's a lifestyle.

Yeah. And for me, like, I'm on one of the hers face, or retin oil prescription for skin care and for wrinkles. And that just saves me time from having to go to the dermatologist where they're trying to get a mail order pharmacy to get me to reorder anyway. Right. To be clear, it's not like Hems and hers created some model. That's how physicians and dermitably. Well, they're a marketing company too. Yeah, for sure.

I just, we were talking about, have you heard of legacy? It's for sperm. You like that or not? No, this is a controversial one because of the marketing practices that imply that there's more of an issue than there is. What's that mean? That's like, we diagnose you with the problem and then you buy our solution. Well, they just store your sperm, too, though. I think the concern in the healthcare space around this particular problem has been the percent of men that actually need this is so minuscule,

but their advertising practices make claims that make it sound. But why wouldn't you want to store your sperm if it caused? So this is where, so here's what we believe is out really well. So for example, we get a lot of questions around, well, like, how dangerous is it for people to be over testing their cholesterol? Well, my opinion is you can buy as much Coca-Cola as you want on the shelf. If you're over 18, you can buy as many cigarettes as you want, and those things actually do you harm.

And you still have independent thought and agency of making those decisions. And so cholesterol testing or sperm freezing, if that's what you want to do and you're going to pay for it, then that's your right to do it. And so I'm with you, but I think you have to then still have a fine line. Like we have to be as everly well as Hems and Roe and legacy and all these companies. You have to be super careful about the claims you're making and how, how, kind of what scare tactics you're taking for people to want to buy it. Because there is going to be some backlash eventually from the FTC. And there will be some regulatory kind of engagement on this.

It's just lagging right now because that's what happens with regulation. It catches up later. I love those businesses because I can't imagine having gone to the doctor and do that. Yeah. Like that just sucks. Yeah. That's pretty bad. It's a good.

I mean, and that's exactly what the model is there for. That's exactly why when I talk about the opportunity with SDI testing, I think it's real. Same with that. It's huge. It's because people don't, you actually, whatever I was doing in general is we're getting people to comply with something they don't want to do otherwise. So like 40% because you want to get tested, but you don't want to be like, hey, I'm doing. Not just SDI. People just don't get it done.

Right. the requisition from their doctor. Particularly men. Exactly. So the assumption, the data shows about 40% of tests that doctors issue never get completed. Yeah, I treated like a suggestion. It's like, oh, I should do what this says. We have to take business away from Loudcore request.

We just have to help people actually get done what they need to. And on top of that, you know, that will obviously, I think, make the pie bigger as well. What's the most common STI, Chlamydia? Oh, gosh. I actually don't know from a statistic, but I think it's, Chlamydia. Are you guys? We couple those together.

That's our top selling scheme. It's Chlamydia. So everybody who's listening, we want you to get your self-tested for chlamydia. Go to everlywell.com. Dot com. Yes. And order your test today.

Julia Cheek, thank you for coming. Do you want to give people a way to follow you, find, you know, hang out with you more? How should people get more of these thoughts? Yes. Julia T. Cheek on Twitter and private on Instagram. I'm trying to keep that. Yeah. Yeah, feel free.

All right. Thank you for coming by. I appreciate it. Thank you.