My First Million - #54 - Atrium Closing Down, B2B Gifting & Curly Girl Hair

Episode Date: March 6, 2020

Sam (@thesamparr) and Shaan (@shaanvp) talk ideas, news, trends and businesses. We've partnered with Rippling! The startup that gives you back your time from payroll to employee compliance, making it unbelievably easy to manage your company’s HR and IT – in one system. If you want to try it out, visit www.rippling.com. Also, we had a listener actually start building an idea mentioned in our last podcast with turning tithing digital. He's documenting his journey and uploaded a video to share with you all in our private FB group -- which you are free to join: www.facebook.com/groups/ourfirstmillion. Here's Paul Graham's awesome essay on Do Things That Don't Scale: http://paulgraham.com/ds.html For detailed show-notes Topics for today: Greetings in the corona world & viral trigger content (0:14), Our run the world event is canceled (1:09), Henry has a mic now... but he's leaving the pod (1:49), A listener is building the tithing app (3:47), Cursing in meetings (5:55), Curly girl hair (8:27), Workout app making $100m/year (12:45), Mixed race shampoo (14:13), Atrium closing down and what Justin said to Sam at Hustlecon (16:24), Paul Graham's Do Things That Don't Scale (22:45), Trader Joe's founder passing away and it's fantastic business (29:25), Hotel franchising (33:49), B2B Gifting (36:14), CEO's discussed actually listen to the pod (42:30), Q&A: What's your best SEO hack for a new website? (43:53), Q&A: How to make your podcast profitable? (46:47) and Best interview questions featuring Henry (49:02).  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Namaste. Namaste. That's our corona. Namaste. People are legit doing the foot handshake. Like several people have done this to me. Be like, all right, yep, Corona. One of our, tap, my co-workers, Bobby, put, he, on, on Instagram, he's like, handshakes

are just, are disgusting right now. You have to do other things. And he put a video of him and another coworker, Katie, having their feet with their toes, interlocking. It was so funny. It just triggers everyone. Yeah, he was like, you can't handshake anymore. You have to do other methods.

Their toes are interlocking. That's like, that is the best content on social media is these photos that will just trigger people. When they see that, there was one where this guy was on a plane and he was barefoot and he put his foot on the armrest of the person in front of them. And it got like, I don't know, whatever the max number of Twitter users are that could share. That's how many people share this thing. We should, I should take that from him and share it on my stuff because I'll get some of their, I'll steal their clout. last podcast we talked about run the world yeah okay so retraction yeah big major retraction i signed up me and alan did it it sorry guys it didn't work platform sucks right now platform sucks i think that

if they're listening you can get it right but you missed it this time and you tweeted at them did they respond to you yeah good customer service and they uh i got a i sent it to you i couldn't go to bed last night two or three in the morning they just screwed up so it's just kind of buggy right yeah Yep. All right. That's unfortunate. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.

We'll try another one at some point. But we definitely did it. Unfortunately didn't work. Yeah. Is there any? Okay, so we can get other updates. How about Henry with the microphone talking to that? Oh, get that smooth voice, that Barry Mantle of voice on here.

What up, guys? I'm Henry. Oh, man. Look at that. On the pod. New fan favorite. That's awesome. Jamie of, uh, from the Joe Rogan experience for this podcast.

Powerful young Henry. But, but he is leaving. I know. But for now, it's powerful young. Henry. I am leaving in a week, but Alan will be replacing me, so you'll have a new fresh face. That's awesome. So now when we need to look stuff up and then Henry finds the information because we don't know what the hell we're talking about, now he can say it into the mic, which is great. Are there any other updates that we have to talk about? Run the World didn't work. Henry has a mic.

No, that's good. We ask people to subscribe and unsubscribe and send videos. I don't think it worked. Don't think that worked. But podcast is growing anyways, so I feel happy. We're up, I think, 55% since last month. which is awesome. Solid growth. If you are listening to this, you don't have to do much. Just share this with a friend.

And you could tag either of us on Twitter and we will. I'll for sure reply. Sean will say he will and he might. I may or may not reply. But here's the thing. I was on my way over here today and you know I like to get in the mood. Like I like to prime the pump. I couldn't.

I was like, what should I listen to that's going to get the ideas flow and get the wheels turning so that when I come in here my brain is already firing. There's no podcast to listen to that's like this, dude. I hate to say it. There's no other podcast that does this where it's like there's a lot of good podcast where it's great storytelling, great interviews, but nobody is playing mental hopscotch with ideas. And so I couldn't get anything to get me going.

So that's a good sign for us. When I wasn't here, Stu did it and I listened to it and I loved it. And I loved the notes even more. Right. I love the notes. I had no idea about the whole Christian tithing business. Awesome. And that's when I know it's good because I typically hate anything I'm involved in.

And how about a guy who's doing the tithing business? He's like. Oh, yes. A guy messaged us. It sounds like he was English. He must be in England. Yeah, he's in the UK. He's basically, so his thing was we didn't give him the idea.

Say the background. So the background is we were talking about, I mean, Steve, we're talking about, okay, cool, religious, religion tech, church tech. and one of the ideas that came up or one of the things I told him, I said, somebody had reached out and said, give me three months, I'm going to be on the podcast

because I'm going to build this thing. It's badass. You guys should know you're talking about church tech. There's this company that does digital tithing. It's called push pay. It's big. $4 billion process, $98 million in revenue. There's another one called Tidley.

And he's like, but they're not big in the UK or Europe right now. I'm going to build it in the UK and Europe. And in the Facebook group, which will put the link in the show notes, he's providing these video updates. So he posted his first video update. I don't know if you saw it.

I did. I got 23 customers, churches who were interested in doing this, including one that runs 2,000 churches. And he's young. He's a young guy. He's a smart guy. And he's like, look, here's how I came up with this idea. And I'm doing it.

I'm going to provide video updates every week in this thing. And I love the, I love when people share their work. I love when people work in public. I think it's an extremely underrated thing to do. And every time you do it, you get this army of people who are rooting for you and opening up doors for you as you go. I completely agree. And it keeps you accountable. I'm excited to see what he's going to do.

Hopefully his next video is a little shorter. Yeah, this one was like six minutes. Eight minutes. I watched two of the eight, but I enjoy all two that I watched. I like that guy. So I guess we should put Abruz, I think that's how you say his name.

Abraeu. Abreu? Yeah. We should put his show notes in the... In the description. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. This guy is a listener.

He just makes these great notes. We don't know him. I met him recently. He called me a little bitch. first met him. That's what he did. Just to shock you or what? Well, I met him and he goes, hey, why don't you follow me on Twitter? I was like, I don't know. I'm sorry. And he goes, just stop being a little bitch and follow me. That's one of the first things he said when I met him. I was like, nice to meet you. So, uh, kudos to that guy for whatever you want to give me.

I had this, uh, blog post. I used to try to blog about business back of the day when we were doing our very first startup right out of college. And none of my posts got read by anybody. Nobody cared. but one post went semi-viral, and it was called the first curse advantage. And basically, I was saying how in a meeting, the first person who uses a curse word sort of establishes himself as the person who just doesn't give a fuck about the, they put themselves in a position of power. And it also builds a different level of rapport because you're obviously using informal language with somebody else.

And you're demonstrating that you're not seeking their approval in a way. And so I always, in meetings, I do this, I try to be. the first to curse in a meeting. But can I say, I don't love that? And I'm like, because you don't like cursing in general? No, I mean, I actually, when I hear myself curse, I'm like, man, I sound kind of trashy. I agree. I don't like when I hear myself do it, and I think I do it too much.

But I've noticed in meetings, it changes the dynamic, like, instantly. And for better or for worse, but I've, for me, it's a difference between being crude and being cursing, actually. So, like, saying bitch, I fucking hate. Right. Oh my God. You just hear that? That wasn't on purpose.

So I don't like when people say that. Quick story before we get into this. I went, I got married in September. And I had to go, I got married to Catholic Church and you got to go meet with the priest ahead of time. And I was really nervous because I don't, I'm not practicing. I don't go to church. And but I wanted, the whole wedding was, they had to approve it.

And the whole wedding was on the line, right? So I had to like be a good Catholic or at least appear like one. And I remember I was sitting there. And the priest was asking me and my wife, my future wife, about like, so do you guys agree on children? What do you think about birth control? All this stuff or whatever he was asking. And I would just say whatever I thought had to be. I was very nervous.

I was like, yes, sir. Yes, we go to church three times. Like I just said all everything. And then my phone rings and I was so nervous. I go, oh, fuck, sorry. It went really loud. And then he looked at me and I was like, shit, my bad. I didn't be to cuss.

And I was so embarrassed and mortified. That's amazing. Yeah. But he let it go. He let it go. Good guy. Yeah, he let it go. And then I made a joke about how I was asking what school he went to and he said he had a lot of student debt.

And he said, uh, he's like, yeah, but the church. Is he a young guy or young? Like in his 30s, maybe late 30s. And he said, uh, but the church pays for it. And I made like a joke like, ah, so that's why you joined. And he didn't. He didn't appreciate that. He didn't like that.

You want to get into it? Yeah, let's get into it. Can you, uh, make that bigger? Curly girl hair. So you guys in trends did a post about the natural hair movement. Yeah, that's a big, big thing. And mixed race and black women. And so talk a little bit about what was in the report.

And then I'll tell you sort of what I've seen separate from that. It sounds like you're more interested in it. You tell me what was in it. All right. So I'll start with, so my sister-in-law has super curly hair. And if you've never seen Sean, he's Indian. I'm Indian and she's Indian. And she's got super curly hair.

And curly hair takes a lot of maintenance, right? Like it gets humid, boom. it's frizzy and you have like this episode of friends where Monica's hair is like an afro that that happens or it's flat or you want to straighten it or whatever it's a lot of maintenance of curly hair and so um she was telling me she's like yeah i downloaded this like i joined this thing i bought this pdf that's called the curly girl um guide or something like that and um it's his method to taming your hair and getting because i told her i was like your hair looks great nowadays like what are you been doing and i just thought she would say like oh i use this other product she's

She's like, no, there's like a 12-step process I'm doing every night. Anybody with curly hair. Black man, anywhere else. So my wife, if you're, well, I guess they would be able to see this. My wife's black. She's half white, half-black. She's also not here, even if they're watching. Yeah.

She's half white and half black, and she buys a lot of this stuff as well. Right. And so, like, there's a whole thing of like, you know, when you go to sleep, you need to wrap your hair in a certain way to sort of like whatever in the oils, blah, blah, and so then, and like some basics that you just don't do. So, like, she, you know, she had curly hair her whole life, but didn't know, oh, I'm not supposed to use shampoo. in the same way that most people use shampoo. And so she was telling me about some of these differences. Anyways, opportunity, I was like, I like these businesses where you could put out content and information that just helps people.

And then sort of on the back end, sell the kit. That's like, oh, by the way, like, if you just want to push a button and get the solution, I have the kit that has all the shit you need. Because she spent hours researching all the different products that, like, what is the best version of this oil I'm supposed to have? What is the best version of the shampoo for? for me. And so anyways, I think there's an opportunity to do this curly girl hair kit because there's a huge number of women that have curly hair. The spend is in the multibillions per year

in the U.S. for how this gets treated. And there is this natural hair movement where it's less about doing these really damaging things like permanently straightening your hair or, you know, weaves and whatnot. Like now there's a sort of a natural hair movement. And so people need content like education plus the tools this sort of the hair care kit um to take care of the hair okay i love that henry can you do me a favor on a new tab type in reddit curly hair so there's a whole subreddit one of the ways i like to look at validation and ideas for different companies is i like to look at the engagement and size of a particular subreddit how many subscribers does this subreddit have i can't read that from here use that use that mic you got henry what are you

doing 337000 that's pretty pretty good good, I think, actually, for a curly hair, and particularly because Reddit is mostly men. Right. And this is a woman's focused curly hair subreddit with... Exactly. So great way to sort of validate the demand and the community aspect to this where people are sharing information, recommending products to each other. The other side of this is it photographs great. So before and after, I believe, is the best ad that you can do. Before, which is a photo, after, which is a better photo. And you don't even need to show your product. You just need to show whatever I took gave me this. outcome. I was here, now I'm there.

So my wife loves this subreddit. Okay, so here's further validation. Okay, so particularly, so I think that the, the angle here is you have to go ethnicity or race specific. Yeah. So whether it's Indian, I have no idea if Asian women suffer from this, but if they do do that, I know from firsthand experience that mixed race women or whether they're white and black or any other combination suffer from this as well. Right. And further validation is Fenty.

Rihanna has that brand that sold to the Louis Vuitton Company, or what's it called LVH? LVMH. LVMH. And you could read about the deal. I think it was valued at $800 million. And a lot of her thing is towards mixed races. And then another idea here, and everyone knows about this woman, but Kayla, it's new. It seems.

It's thing. What's her thing called? It's me. Yeah, sweats her app. This is, I sound like a, your wife does it. My wife does it. Yeah, I sound like an idiot because I'm a guy and I don't pay attention to this. Yeah, this whole segment is like bros trying to talk about, you know, products they don't understand.

But I'm fascinated. I'm interested. I'm trying. And everyone loves a tryer. So Kayla's thing, I heard that's $100 million your company. It is. The fitness app itself, which is like phenomenal. And it was just built off her Instagram following.

So that's crazy. I'm into this. She started with the same thing. Beach, the bikini body guide, I think was her content that she was put out. And then it was PDF. And then the PDF got circulated everywhere. And basically she allowed the like paid PDF to get. bootlegged and just shared everywhere.

And what that did was it just gave her tons of awareness, tons of marketing. And then she launched the app, which you couldn't bootleg and you had to pay for. And then boom. And the most interesting part about her thing was she, so she's like mainstream popular. And typically when things are mainstream popular, maybe sometimes like people who think they're cool can think it's kind of lame. And Sarah's an Ivy League educated New Yorker. And she was like, oh, I love this PDF.

Right. And so she has access to all types of interesting. things and she still uses it. And I thought that was amazing that people really respected and liked it. Yeah, she comes across very well if you've ever seen her content. She's not like she's not hateable. Like she doesn't come across as hateable. I thought that's cool. Oh, and last thing, diva curl. Have you heard of diva curl? I have not, no. Another mixed race shampoo. Maybe it's for black women, but or maybe it's, I don't know what the, I forget if it's black women or mixed race women. That's what we use for shampoo. And it was quiet for a

for a quarter of a billion. Nice. And there's some things on the opposite side, like Tristan Walker, who was, I think, either the co-founder or first employee of Foursquare, left to start his own African-American men's skin care product company. Walker brands. Walker brands, where it was like, you know, shaving stuff because, you know, the hair is different.

It's coarse. It's going to, the traditional shaving gear was causing problems and didn't work out, went under. And that kind of brings me to, I don't know why it went under exactly. I don't know if it was the business fun of it. Why? They just raised too much money and fucked everything up. Okay, so when we started our business, we knew how to create our product and we knew how to get sales, but I had no idea how to run payroll. I didn't know anything about healthcare. I didn't know anything about that stuff. And so when we first started, we used a handful of different payroll providers, a couple of different HR providers. And none of them were that great. And so I read about this guy named Parker Conrad, who launched this fantastic company called Rippling a couple years ago. And since I read about it, I've been researching it. And we finally pulled the trigger and started using it. them and they are actually today's sponsor. So it's called Rippling. And what it does is when you hire new employees, it makes it stupidly simple in order to onboard them. It makes it really easy for your

new employees to see your handbook, to see all the software you use to get access to that software. And it actually makes something that I never even thought was a problem until I experienced it, which it makes it really easy to track all of your hardware and devices. You can see which employees use which computer, what software they're using. And it's all one platform. So you could pay payroll, you can track healthcare, you can track hardware, you can do a bunch of really interesting things on it. They're today's sponsor. They're one of our only sponsors that we've had.

We've been very selective of who we are allowing to sponsor this podcast. And we worked with them this time because I use Rippling personally and I love it. So give it a shot. Ripling.com. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G.com. Atrium folded. Yeah. So Atrium is a company that has raised $70 million?

$75 million. You made a great comment that I've stolen and I've told everyone, but basically Atrium, what they did, they never did anything really, unfortunately. They tried to do a bunch of things. So at first, it was almost like you'd pay a flat fee and get a service done. And then they were like, all right, let's create software so lawyers can contribute with their clients and you can see what they're doing. But you said, why didn't they just make a law firm? Exactly. So basically, Atrium, if you don't know, started by Justin Khan, who is the founder of Justin.com.

which became Twitch and, you know, well-known guy in Silicon Valley. So he raises $75 million pretty much out the gate, like in two rounds, I believe. But the first round, you know, I think they raised $10 million out of $90 million valuation on just in saying, hey, I'm going to do a new thing. And then they raise more money. And they raise it all pre-product market fit. So before they knew what they had and what the market wanted, they raised a ton of money. And what I call this is the curse of money expectations and people.

And so what does that mean? The curse of money is when you get a lot of money. too much money before you actually know what you're doing, that actually decreases your odds of success, doesn't increase your odds of success. Right. The second is expectations. Justin Con, famous guy, serial entrepreneur, raises a bunch of money at a high valuation. Now you have the weight of those expectations, which makes you less nimble, less agile and

less responsive to, you know, changing up your own product. And you know what he told me? He spoke at Hustlecott and I hung out with them backstage. One of my secrets of a Hustlecon is I make everyone come an hour early. Right. And I lied to them about when they have to speak. Right. It starts at two.

Yep. So I hang out with them backstage. age and I meet all these people. I told one guy, the founder of Zapier, I hung out with that dude all day, Wade, doing this thing. And what Justin told me was, he goes, I have a chip on my shoulder that Twitch sold for $1 billion. This has to be $10 billion or I'm not interested. And I was like, I don't know if that's a healthy attitude. dude. I don't know, Justin. He goes, I have a chip on my shoulder, which I think that is actually healthy. I'm all for that. But he told me, he's like, here's what the expectations are. And I was like, that's a little crazy, dude, but whatever. Yeah, that is a little crazy.

And the last one is, so the curse of money, explanations of people. And people is, when you have all this money and you have all these expectations, you start hiring a bunch of people. So they laid off, like, I don't know, 100 people. I think 200. Why do they even have 100 or 200 people? And they were a lawyer, like lawyer type. I mean, these people cost a lot. Right.

And so before you have product market fit, you want to have as few people as possible. You want to have as light, you know, sort of lightweight expectations. You want to be extremely nimble and agile. So they tried to do a hybrid. Like you said, I went to one. So one of the thing they did really well was Justin leveraged what he had, leverage your assets, right? So his asset was he's got a name in the tech community. So here's what he did.

He first, when he raised money, raised from like a bunch of VCs because he knew, well, they have companies. They're going to send their client. They're going to send their, those are my future clients. And I love what. what you're about to say now. I think that's even better. And so, I don't know if you know, but so I'm talking about these weekend things he hosted. Yeah.

Yeah. So did you go to one? Nope. So I went to one of these. So he basically said, cool, weekend workshop. Justin Kahn is going to do an Atrium Academy workshop on the weekend. And I don't remember what the promise was. I think it was like how to raise money for your company.

And so I went to one of them because I wanted to see what was up. And it's a kind of an all-day thing. At the At the Atrium office. And Justin's a very charismatic, magnetic speaker. And so he starts telling the atrium stories like, you know, when we started this company. And he's like, you know, one of the things about I always thought, he's like, I became involuntary, I became an involuntary power user of legal services. I love that phrase. He's like, because, you know, when we were selling Twitch for a billion dollars, we needed a bunch of lawyers.

And when I did this other thing, we raised money for, I needed a bunch of lawyers. And I do all these investments and I need a bunch of lawyers. So I just realized, man, the legal system sucks. And everyone's nodding their head. And he's like, you know, it's weird that you don't know the problem. price of something. You know, they bill you by the hour, so they're incentivized to spend as much time and bill you as much as they can. You want it fast and you want to know your price. We're like, yeah, you're right, Justin, I do want that. And he's like, you know, the second thing is,

he's like, why, I looked into it. Why isn't there a competitor? No, no, the second one was, he was like, I was having dinner with my friend who's a lawyer and I asked her, you know, what do you guys use for project management? She's like, what do you use Trello or Sana? And she's like, I don't know what those words are. He's like, lawyers don't use anything for their project management. Isn't that crazy? Or like, yeah, that's crazy. Last one, he was like, he's like, so then I was like, why doesn't somebody start a competitor? He's like, I realize there's some legislation that says you can't start a law firm, and I'm going to butcher what the actual legal problem was. But like, there was a rule.

You cannot start a law firm unless you're a lawyer. And unless you've been a lawyer for a certain amount of time or whatever it was. He's like, so that's why no outsider has done this. But luckily, we found a loophole that let us start this law firm. So we're one of the only new law firms that started not by these people. By the end of it, you're like, do you take my money? I want you know I want to invest in your thing your impression of Justin Khan is the is so condescending and so funny I don't mean it that way I was impressed I'm trying to say he told this story and I was eating it up

and and so I was like this is amazing this this whole workshop was amazing he brought in his friends who were giving advice and they were fucking awesome they were so good at giving advice and so anyways by the end of it and he gives me advice he was just like because we were building on the platform with like a Twitch sort of like the streaming app thing. And he was like, yeah, you know, we thought about doing that. And we don't think it's valuable. I don't think your thing's going to be valuable. And he was pretty much right.

We had to pivot. And so we, so anyways, by the end of this, I was like, this was an amazing way to acquire customers. I agree. And that's my like long winded way of saying he used his assets. He did these workshops. It's not a scalable thing. But man, he won people over.

I think you're so wrong. When you say it's not a scalable thing. First of all, you don't need that. many customers for this thing to make a very large he could have got a hundred clients easily within a couple months yeah and what i hate when people say that they go this isn't scalable like they'll talk about agencies and they'll say it's not scalable it's like what are talking about some agencies have 20 000 people that seems like it's scaled to me like perfectly fine i do think those are scalable actually um it depends right if you're a product that needs thousands and thousands

of customers then doing workshops with 20 people at a time is not going to get you there um so it's not scalable in that sense. So you want to hear a cool story about that? The founder of Pandora, his name's Tim Westigen, I went and met with him. When I went and met with him, we went out to lunch and he's like, oh, I forgot to do something. Can you walk with me? And I walk with them. And then we go, he goes, I got to get a haircut. And so I just sit next to him. And this guy's worth probably $600 million. We go to super cuts. Right. And he gets a haircut for $12 and we're sitting there in the barbershop. It's on a Tuesday at one. No one's there. And he's telling me the story. I go, what did you used to do how did you go pandora he goes here's what i would do monday through thursday he goes i had a

c o who ran the company i would go i would just he goes this was before i think it was a little bit before social media was around he said i would email people and i would say i'm going to be at this library in new york at this time any pandora users in the area come and talk to me and he said he did for four years and he goes here's the first one i did and he showed me a picture of him at a coffee shop he goes two people showed up and he goes here's the last one i did and he showed me a picture and it was out of the library and there was two or three thousand people there he goes i would do that monday thursday i did meetups everywhere all i did was travel and i did it for years and uh it worked out he goes he goes he goes i was like did it he goes it would take a little while but after a couple

years of doing it i would go to the south or i go to Atlanta and we would see more advertisers come so it was just like he goes it worked out perfectly right and because i said the same thing i go wow that's a horrible waste of time he goes no it worked we made a lot of money off of it and i got to connect with users and I would relay the feedback back to my CEO and they would do it. Yeah. So that case, he's not trying to grow Pandora's active user base. He's taking fans and turning them into die-hards. And he's generating advertising revenue, which you can get.

That actually scales enough to where you can get advertisers. And he's getting feedback firsthand, which is like great for the product to get better. That's a dope story. It's a dope story. I love that story. There's a clip. related to that, by the way, there's a, you know, there's probably like 10 blog posts that matter the most if you're going to do a startup. One of them is the Paul Graham essay, do things that don't scale, where he's talking about with Airbnb early on. And if you're kind of in the startup world, just fast forward 30 seconds. But if you're not, you'll like this story if you haven't heard it. So Airbnb is in Y Combinator. They're struggling. Airbnb is not really working. They have like, I don't know, 20 customers or something low. And they go into Paul Graham's office. He's the advisor from what. decomminator and he's like okay so tell me how it's going and they're like well you know it's small

and not really growing and he's like okay but tell me what what have you learned from your customers you've been out there what did you learn and they're like well you know most of our customers you know most our customers are in new york and they're putting their apartments up he's like they're in new york he's like yeah he's like what are you doing here like go to new york you need to go to new york now and like uh why are you in san francisco if your customers are in new york so he sent them over there and what they did which is something that nobody else was doing was if you ever saw an apartment listing before, the photos looked like shit because it would be somebody on their crappy mobile phone at that time taking a photo of a dirty apartment and listing it for rent. And so it was

like the worst sales pitch. And so they started themselves going in. They said, hey, can we send up, they would tell their customers, hey, we want to do professional photos of your place. It increases bookings by 40%. Are you open to that? And then they would show up as the professional photographer and be like, hey, by the way, I'm the founder. And they would take photos. And that Airbnb listing started it'll look great. And everyone told them this won't scale. And they also thought this won't scale. And to an extent it did because even now today, there's a sort of fleet of photographers that will come and take photos of your place to list it because it was just that important. And they found a way to make it scale. I think that's a great story. Another thing that shocks people is I think

even if you have hundreds of thousands of users, maybe as high as millions, you could really, I've done this with us. I'll just call and talk. I only need to talk to about 10 people. And I can see the pattern that represents tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people. Right. You could just tell. So like what you could do is A, B test shit and wait if you're just starting. You're not going to, it's not going to be significant. And that could work fine.

If you just call 10 people, you really get the information you need. Totally. I was talking to Emmett. So Emmett's the CEO of Twitch where I'm working. And one of, you know, being at a big company has all these different weird things that aren't really related to my core interest, which is startups. So I ask Emmett all the time. Just tell me about the early days.

And so I asked him, I said, hey, when you guys were pivoting from Justin TV to Twitch, was that obvious? He was like, no, dude. At Justin TV, like, less than 2% of the watch time was on video games. It wasn't obvious that this was the thing to do. He's like, I just liked it. And I thought there was an option. And he goes, and then I talked to a bunch of customers. And I said, do you have your notes from that?

And he's like, yeah, I do. And so he sent me his notes from the initial conversations he had with all these streamers, all these customers. And we publish those? No, no, probably not. But I was reading through them. And it was fascinating. So first was just like, first lesson was just go ask the founder or CEO about the early days. I bet you they have a bunch of resources that are awesome.

Like he sent me the old pitch decks and stuff like that. I think I sent you one slide, which was my favorite slide, the title of the slide, because it was a progress update for their early investors. Yeah. And it just said, we're like a bulldozer and a field full of flowers. And it just, and then it was a list of all the shit they got done that month. And I was like, this attitude. Like if I said that today at Twitch, it would be like, what is this maniac saying? Like, why is your slide so aggressive?

But that's how they were early on. So then he had all these notes of his customer conversations. And he always tells everybody at Twitch. He's like, go talk to people. By the sixth conversation, you'll hear the same thing over and over again. It takes six phone calls, basically to figure out the pattern. And by the sixth one, you'll know. And you won't even want to do 50 conversations.

You'll be like, all right, I can predict what this person is going to say before they even say it after six. That's awesome. I think we just got ourselves another clip. Clip it. what do you want to want to first of all share that deck with me again and also ask him if we can make that public yeah I will ask him actually because it's pretty cool

what do you want to get what do you want to do the one thing I can share out of that by the way he asked three questions he's like I said you know oh customer interviews is there a whole skill set to learn he goes no dude I has three questions I said what do you like about your current platform what do you dislike about your current platform and what will it take to get you to switch to Twitch

and that's what he asked every single customer and then he just heard the common things and he would build it and he'd go back to him and he said, you told me this is what it would take for you to switch. Two weeks later, here it is. Are you ready? And then sometimes they're like, no, still. He's like, okay, cool, what's next?

And he would just like keep doing that. Three questions. That's badass. Just to wrap that up, if you want to learn about this stuff, I think the best book I've ever read on this is called The Mom Test. Yeah, I love that. Jack recommended me that book. Yep.

It's fantastic. It's the best thing. Tiny book, too. It's a long blog post. 50 pages of all. That book, in terms of your business life, might change. Yeah, the mom test.

Okay, so there was this great write-up in the Trends Facebook group by this guy, Morgan, or girl Morgan. I'm not sure exactly, but Morgan Key. And it was talking about, hey, the founder of Trader Joe's just died. I think Joe, I don't know how you say the last name, but Joe from Trader Joe's passed away. And, you know, so he dug into the model and said, what is it that makes Trader Joe's work? And there's a bunch of really fascinating things where they basically broke all of the rules. and I thought it was just like a great example of of like, you know, when you want to do something different

or you want to like make a splash in an industry, like it pays to just change a bunch of the rules. So some of the things that they do differently. So they, most grocery stores have a ton of skews. They're like, oh, people want all the options. We got to carry everything that people ask for. Trader Joe's has on average, I think, 4,000 skews. An average grocery store will be 40,000.

So one-tenth, the number of skews. The next thing that I thought was interesting was, they overstaffed, not understaff. So every other grocery is trying to sort of have minimal labor costs, and they go the exact opposite direction and try to provide an experience for shopping. They private label basically all of their goods. So how do you, okay, great, I overstaffed.

I overstaffed, but that's like expensive. So where do they make their money back? They make their money back by not buying, not by buying wholesale and selling retail. They actually just private label their stuff and have a way bigger margin on their items. So what's an example of that? So like their tomato sauce, for example, they will have our salsa.

It'll be called Trader Joe's salsa. And people will be like, oh, I love Trader Joe salsa. And it's actually the same exact salsa that somebody else carries. They go straight to that supplier or manufacturer. And they say, hey, we want our own line of this. And so it's usually- Trader Joe's isn't making it. No, they go to the supplier, but they private label that exact item.

Oh, I didn't know that. They carry it. They get a much bigger margin because they're cutting out the sort of retailer. And they have all this pricing power to go to suppliers with and say, hey, we have all these locations, so we are already a big customer from day one. We want you to give us our own brand of popcorn, our own brand of this, our own brand of that. And then on the other side, that makes customers love it because people will get addicted to this. And they think, oh, that pretzel, that chocolate cover pretzel I loved, I can only get it at Trader Joe's.

That's not the reality. Because there's no brand on it, but they could actually get that same thing. They just don't know the brand and it's from some other products. I have felt that exact same way about a lot of their products. And so there was a few other ones that I thought were interesting. I'm going to dig it up, but talk for a second while I, So I'll tell you guys a quick story since we were talking about scaling. I talked to Max Mullen at Hustlcon, and you listen to this story.

He told me that when they first started Instacom... Who's Max Mullen? Max Mullen started Instacart. He goes, our first store was Trader Joe's, and they wouldn't let us go in there. And they wouldn't give us all their inventory. He goes, it cost $25 grand. I bought everything in the store. We brought it to an apartment.

Took a photo of it. Took a photo of it. It took pictures of every single thing. I love it. And it was $25,000. He goes, one of everything was about $25 grand. And he did that with Whole Foods and then five other stores. That's amazing.

Okay, a couple of the points that Morgan brought up. So no data collection. So they're not collecting data on their customers. They don't ask for yourself. They don't do sales, coupons, loyalty, or advertising. The biggest expense, so their marketing is samples in the store. So they go above and beyond on samples and don't do a whole bunch of other promotional stuff. They expanded very slowly.

So they have about 500 locations after 50 years. And so they really went sort of slow and steady with their growth. sort of like an in and out or whatever. And are they owned by someone at the moment? Private company. I don't think they got bought by a private. I think it's literally like owned by the original whoever's. There's a couple people involved.

And so in the end, their price per, sorry, their earnings per square foot in their store. So they'll earn $2,000 per square foot revenue. And like Whole Foods will do 1.2K. And then, you know, Walmart will do 600K. So they're way more profitable per square foot because of, or sorry, way more revenue per square foot because of these these different changes they made to the standard

model. I dig that. We should, I don't know why we didn't, we should publish that. I think it's a $10 billion company overall. I thought they were owned by all these for some reason. You might be right. I don't know on that. But shout out to Morgan. I thought this is a great breakdown. Love it. Do more of that in the groups. We love this stuff. And we'll share the information because, yeah, more people need to learn

from this stuff. So that's actually an interesting take, which is what are the interesting components that makes something special. So we're doing this thing that we're going to publish on Tuesday on hotels. And I thought that that was really interesting. And so it's not live yet. So I haven't been able to read all of it. But basically, a lot of the largest hotel chains, what they do is they don't actually own the property. I mean, sorry, sometimes they own the property, but it's all franchised. Yeah. And so 90% of their money is made via franchising. Hilton's, Marriott's, whatever. Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. And so that's one of like the secret sauces,

which is you have to do franchising and it's really expensive like could be 10 million dollars to start a Marriott franchise right very expensive that's not that expensive 10,000 that's cheap for a franchise sorry I said 10 million oh 10 million okay it could be millions of dollars okay yeah that's a lot it's crazy and so what what we've been doing on trends and what I have always loved doing which is what's like what's like the thing that makes something special what makes it tick yeah so for example with software typically it's just um uh what makes a great software business is like there's I'm just riffing here but I'd have to find the exact numbers but it's like are is the annual revenue per customer at least $5,000 um can you

make it so churn is only 4% a month and then there's uh probably only one or two more rules but it's usually churn and can it be at least five grand a year for a SaaS business you're talking about yeah and so I love seeing those like yeah you want so what investors do is they see so many deals and they talk to so many founders and they do this for a number of years, they get to see how these play out. They start to do what they call pattern recognition, which has pros and cons. The pros is great. You can recognize a good thing when it's a good thing.

The con is if you're trying to make everything fit your pattern, you'll miss the outliers. And that's a big issue. But it's worth, it's still a tool in your tool belt that you should have. So I feel like this should not just be investors that do this. This should be entrepreneurs as well. So you should be looking at different businesses, industries, breaking them down. listening to podcasts like this or others and trying to identify the patterns of commonalities and try to characterize, okay, what made that business tick?

What made this have a different outcome than that? What are the sort of minimum requirements on, let's say, churn or customer value for a SaaS business to work and start to get these rules of thumb or like common patterns in place in your brain? Yeah, and what I've been trying to do is figure out those on all types of things. Yeah. And that's been exciting. You want to do one more?

Yeah, let's do one more. So there's this thing called Thinks, T-H-N-K-S. Wait, where is that on here? Oh, I see it. Oh, okay. What's that? So I saw this in an Instagram ad or something like that. I thought it was kind of clever.

So B-to-B gifting. So what Thinks does, or I think it's probably Thanks that they're trying to do, which is saying thanks. Oh, that's stupid. I hate cute spelling. Yeah, cute spelling, kind of tripped them up there. So what it does is it's like, from your phone, you can instantly just send a little gift to any business acquaintance.

So it's like you could send, you know, a bottle of wine. You can send a box of chocolates. You can send an Uber ride. You can send $25, you know, Amazon thing, whatever. So they have a whole bunch of different digital gifts that are, it just looked in the ad. It looked frictionless of like how easy this would be to just send this little thank you to everyone. So for someone like you guys, you guys have advertisers. We have guests that come on the podcast.

And I know I would love to send them gifts. I know that I should. I know these little things go a long way, even though it just seems like they shouldn't, but I don't take the time to do it. And so I think if somebody actually made a really good B2B gifting platform that did both the actual gifting, so being able to send it to your contact, but also they're sort of accounting for it. So keeping track of it in a spreadsheet and all that stuff, maybe helping you expense it. I think that could be a big business. I think a lot of salespeople would use this. I totally agree.

What do you point? Did he do that? No, there's a company called Alice, and they do artificial intelligence. B2B gifting, it's really cool. They basically scan your social profile and they figure out what your interests are. They send you an example of a gift they wanna send to you like on behalf of a company.

And then you're able to either donate the value of that to a charity of your choice or pick from the marketplace a gift of similar value. That's badass. I like that. I would do one or two things. The first thing that I would do is I think the way that I would set this up.

up is I would make it pretty heavy on Slack or integrate with Salesforce. So we've built a couple Salesforce plugins that we love and other people have asked us to give it to them. What's an example of one? I'm not involved in our Salesforce thing, but basically one example is we've connected our QuickBooks and our Salesforce really effectively, which was a previously, previously a really hard problem. I mean, that's real nitty-gritty accounting stuff. But it was really frustrating. Another thing that we built in Salesforce was so that we, the way that we built our business is, uh, we can get a line of credit on our invoices and we've synced it all. We've synced it all up. So our bank knows which invoices we have based off Salesforce and things like that. Right. And it's really

effective. But what I would do in this is I would hook it up to sales force or Slack. And I would make it so you could send coworkers as well. And basically the boss puts your credit card down and he allocates it. Or she allocates it. So every employee gets automatically like some number of $10 to $200 a month. Right. And you have, you can like type in like, send Henry a gift at San Francisco office. Right. And like, for example, I buy gift cards for people all the time where someone has done

something really cool or like Edie was saying her car is, I don't know if her car is messed up. I'd be like, send Edie $100 Uber a gift card. Right. I think that would be fantastic. And the way that I would build it is that it would remind every employee how much balance they have left at the end of the month. So you for sure know it's going to get.

Right. used. That's kind of that's really interesting and I would also look at what's the what's the fruit baskets that are popular edible arrangements I would look at their I would go the they crush yeah I think they're publicly traded yeah I would go and read all about how they do it and where they say are the biggest markets for their B to be right is it real estate agents who need to you know always be out there is it sales is it um you know I don't know whatever else so there's some stats that are on here I don't know who added these but great 89% of it down to 9% of 9% of 9% of 9% of 9% Alan, shout out to Alan.

89% of C-suite execs believe that gifting brings people closer together. Okay, love it. And then after receiving a gesture of appreciation, individuals feel like sort of the rule of reciprocity. So 56% more likely to reciprocate. And I think it's great. I have a friend Greg Eisenberg who's all about gifting. Ramon is a great gifter as well.

He's almost obnoxiously good. Yeah. And so they just are so thoughtful and by little things that go along. way. It just makes you love the person. Yeah. So another thing I would do to run this company is I would go to, is it, it was, it's a book called Influence by Robert Chaudini. He's got this thing called the rule of reciprocity. It's summed up in, uh, basically I can do a favor for Sean and he's going to do a favor back to me, even if he didn't ask for me to do him a favor. And it is likely that he will repay me back in a disproportionate amount. So for example, there's been times. You could like go up to someone and you could be like, hey, You want to you want to can I give you a Coke or can I give you a Like this small $10 gift and I could be negotiating with you for selling a car and get a deal and get a deal right Or for example, I could say something like hey can you grab my mail or let me grab your mail for you when you're out of town and then two weeks later I could be like hey can I borrow your car for five days and typically people will do it and so I would make the whole tagline of my company which is like

I would make, I always think of, like in terms of headlines and copywriting for sales pages, I would make the whole headline all about how you can manipulate, you have to use positive language, but how you can manipulate people by giving gifts. I mean, that, I would, what would your headline be? I would go to that book, the rule of reciprocity, and I would find it interesting. In fact, maybe that's what the headline would be. It would be the definition of the rule of reciprocity. Like, I would make it look like a definition.

rule of reciprocity like noun or something defined as inadequate or a disproportional given in response to a gift yeah in other words we help you make more money so so there's theirs is i just went to their website growing business through growing business with gratitude build strong business relationships through efficient personalized and thoughtful gestures of appreciation that's whack that's that sounds like by the way uh dude i get every company we mentioned on here um i get a message that's either the CEO starts listening to it or they were already listening to it. So like we talked about only fans. The founders listened to this.

No shit. We talked about pipe. The founder reached out. Hey, I love it. Why don't they reach out to me? I talked about mystery science. I hung out with the founder yesterday and he was like, we were jamming up.

Mystery science? Mystery science is the amazing business. It's Bill and I, the science guy, delivered into schools. Wait, why don't we get those people on here? We can.

Yeah, he was awesome. And by the, I didn't realize he had, you know, three little exits under his belt and he was doing this. And the business is just spitting off cash. It's amazing. It's used by like a crazy number. You know, the public thing

he told me some other numbers, but I'll say the public thing he told me, which is that 50% of elementary schools in America are active users of their product, which is insane penetration. That just means one classroom within the school, but whatever. You got to 50% of schools being active users on a weekly basis

for the product. I love that. Let's get those people on here. Let's go to questions, eh? Yeah, let's do some quick ones. All right. So we ask people to do subscribe and unscited. subscribe and send us a video of them doing it and we would answer a question that they sent. The truth is, is a lot of the questions were pretty okay. So we're going to avoid some of the okay ones like, what would you do if you had unlimited

money? I'm not going to answer that. I think that's an okay question. Let's see, but let's see what is a couple good questions. Love the podcast. What's your best SEO hack for a new website from Stephen Cintra? So I know zero about SEO. So for me, I love marketing.

I love growth, but you sort of specialize in. certain sub practices within that. SEO is not one of mine, but met a guy yesterday. And he was like, he was telling me he's growing these content sites. He's got a pretty repeatable model to grow content sites over 100,000 monthly visits, up to a million monthly uniques, like within two months. And I was, he's done it like 10 times. And I was like, okay, well, what's the formula?

Are you at SEO guru or what? He's like, oh, no, I don't know SEO. I don't do backlinks. I don't know what a schema is. Like, I don't do any of that stuff. He's like, I'm all content. and I just try to rank on quality and relevance. And he's like, basically, he just looks at what questions people search for using a tool like A, H.RFs or whatever.

And so he goes and finds what questions are people searching for, looks at the search result. And if somebody's like, you know, the 20 best tips for closing a sales meeting, he'll do the 30 best tips. And he'll put in a YouTube video. And he'll, like, add all this value in. And so he literally just like crushes it on those questions. And some of that, sometimes those questions are like, you know, people go. Google their deepest darkest secrets. They're not like politically correct things.

They'll be like, you know, what's the best way to, you know, like tell your girlfriend you're cheating on them or whatever? And so he'll be like the best way to tell your girlfriend you're cheating on them. Things that companies, most sites are not blogging about. He's like, if there's demand, I will write the best content for it. And I will rank over the course of a couple months and I'll get my website up. I'll tell you a quick story real quick. First, I will say my answer to this is I've done the same thing.

I've accidentally been good at it. I would just use two tools, HA reps. and then SEO maz or is sceo maz sorry uh uh yost it's a plug in for wordpress that's the those are the just use those two tools and you'll be fine uh and when youtube first started in 2000 from 2010 to 2009 to 2012 i had a youtube channel that had millions of tens of millions of views uh and all i would do is i would find words people things that were things people were searching for and I would put a video with that exact same title, and then I would make it just a picture and not actually a video,

the click-bated picture, and then I would sell space on that video as background music. And I made hundreds of dollars a month when I was a senior in high school doing that. And so if you ever want to see a thumbnail video of a guy, my most popular video, they took it down. It's called Black Guy Beats Up White Guy. So people were searching for that. Oh, yeah.

Oh, man. And what you can do is you can just type in the word white and it would auto fill or type in the word like fight. Right. Fight videos were popular or probably still are. Look at the auto complete. And it would auto, and it all auto complete. I did that same thing.

And for some reason, I learned that those fight videos did great. Okay. Another question. So Robert asks, what big picture thing should I be looking at for my podcast to be profitable? It's a medical podcast where I talk about certain diseases and interview people who have them. And then he shouts out the name of it, which is the patient will see you. now. All right. So what should he be, how should he be thinking about making his podcast profitable? Should we tell him as experts of a not so profitable podcast? Yeah, we do not have a

profitable podcast. We don't have a lot of that. Well, it's profitable. It's just small relative to like other opportunities we could be doing. It makes money every month. What, what's your answer? I would basically, so not try to go for big, so podcast, you can either go big audience ads or you can say my podcast is lead gen for other things that I do. And so like I've gotten more value. out of businesses and investment opportunities coming from this podcast, then the ad revenue we get every month. And so similarly, I think here, if you're, the people who are going to listen to this podcast, you know, they might be patients with a certain disease. You might be able to sell some premium ad spot to, you know, some pharmaceutical company, but you probably don't have the scale.

And so instead, what I'd be looking for is I'd say, cool, if I had a podcast with 5,000 doctors listening to it every month, what, what could I do with that community? What other adjacent opportunities, business opportunities can I create out of that, that loyal community. And so I'm a big fan of just build the tribe first. The opportunities reveal themselves as you go. And that's how I would go about it. I wouldn't try to do ads for your podcast. I've got nothing to add.

I think it's a good idea. Cool. You want to do one more? Yeah, let's do one more. Okay, first three months of your business. What are your first three steps? Very generic question. Is that even useful?

Okay, let's combine it with best. Man, some of these people, they ask the most general question. Yeah, okay, here's some advice. I have a phrase, ask a better question, get a better answer. So ask a specific question. Don't ask, like, you know, in the first three months of a business, what are your first three steps?

It's like, what art is good? Right. Or, like, you know, how do love you? Like, what? Like, I can't tell you what. It's like, how do you do art? I don't know, man. You want to talk about, like, oil painting, the Renaissance era?

Let's talk about that. Okay, here's a question that I would. will ask to entertain myself here. What's your favorite interview question when you're interviewing somebody for a job? On a scale one of ten, how lucky do you think you are? Nice. Where did you get that from? When I interviewed at Airbnb, the founder asked me it.

It's the Jeff Bezos question. He was the, I think, the originator of it, or made it popular at least. They asked Jeff Bezos, what's your favorite question? He said this and now a bunch of us have stole this. Joe Gebby asked me it and I told him a nine or a ten. and he said why and I explained to him why and I go why did you ask me that he goes people who say they're really lucky are the people I want to be around right I was like why do you think that and he goes well if you're lucky if you think you're lucky you must be

talented and things just fall in your place or you actually are lucky and I want to surround myself with lucky people I don't want to be around on lucky people yeah the specific of the question is how lucky of your person do you think you are one to ten one two three is like I'm not very lucky I don't consider myself a lucky person um for 456 is, I think I'm pretty, I think I'm, you know, decently lucky average. And I, you know, I think I know why. Sorry, I don't know why. Just, that's just how it is.

And then this, the sort of eight, nine, tens are, I consider myself a very lucky person and here's why. And you want people who are either, you know, if luck is a thing, you want them around you, just like he said. Or if they're not, you want people who are optimistic. And, you know, when you're building a young business, you need optimistic people. And then the why part is interesting, too, because. Some people know how to engineer serendipity. They know how to engineer lucky situations for themselves, or they're looking out for situations where they may be getting lucky

and pounce on those opportunities. And that's, again, somebody you want in an early business. And then I'm going to ask you the same question. And I think I know what yours is, but I'm going to say another one that is deadly. I love this question. And this is when you back channel on someone and you want to ask about, so let's say I'm interviewing Henry and you're his old boss.

Reference check. I'll go, Sean, what would you give Henry out of 10? Just say a number. I'll give Henry a seven. Okay. And you're going to give him a seven because you want to, you don't want to completely shit on them, but you also want to be realistic.

And so then I would say, okay, well, what can I, what can he do to get the remaining three points? What can make him a perfect 10? That is the only way I've ever found to get critical feedback on a person, other than saying,

what are they bad at? Well, you know, they're pretty good. Or like, that's what they'll always say. Yeah, for sure.

Because people, like you said, want to be polite. And then people also don't want to like lie based on their own experience. That is the best way I've ever found to get it. Love it. Okay. Good reference check question.

For that specific thing? Yeah. I know what it is and you should tell it. I don't remember what it because I've told a story once, but I don't even remember what it was. The founder of Second Life told me once. Who you are, who you want to be or? Oh, this one. Yeah, this is a good one.

Yeah, you know I love questions like this. I ask this in job interviews, but I also just ask this in social situations to be awkward. fill in i say hey we're going to play a little game i want you to fill in the blank first thing that comes to mind first answer best answer um i'm going to say the first part you finish it and i'll say life is all right let's play all right henry you have the mic so let's play first answer best answer answer as you go uh life is great people are I am Henry oh okay the middle one was the only one was the only one

a good one. Yeah. And then you use it to sort of have a little bit of a conversation. You try not to judge people too much off the top of the mind. But I actually just think this is useful for yourself. So this is like your core outlook. It's like, what's life? And you said life is great.

Cool. Optimistic sort of grateful person. Then you said people are tough. That's interesting. Why do you say people are tough? Do you have a girlfriend? Yeah, I do. Are you guys in a good spot?

You dealing with some stuff right now? You are? Yeah, totally. That's what I was. What's the situation where people have been tough? Tough to deal with. I don't know. Right now I'm trying to like, like figure out where I'm going and like figure out a job.

I'm like ultimately going to get a career I'm going to do. And it's just like tough. Like just communicating with other people and like getting them to realize what like you want. And like making them like see what you see and yourself. People are tough to persuade or tough to get on your on your page. That's a great question. You totally have you like you can see what he struggles with. than values. Yeah. And then the last one, which is I am. And you went with Henry, which is a

very literal answer. If you were going to do another one, what would it be? I am. Okay. And then the second question I'll kind of ask is, so I've usually paused there. I do the psychoanalysis. And then a couple things happen. People are like, oh, okay. They just like want to leave because they feel so uncomfortable. Or they'll be like, what are yours? Cool. I like that. That's a good sign when you ask what are yours. And then I'll tell them mine. And then they'll do the same thing back to me. And the last question is like, I tell them, I said, you know, one thing I did was I did those answers top of mind and I didn't really like what I said.

And then I just reassessed it. I was like, what do I think the answer should be for me? Like, what do I want my answers to be? What do I want my outlook of life, people and myself to be? Right. What do I want my mental model to be? And then I revised it. And then the best people come back a few days later and they're like, hey, by the way, I, you know,

I came up with my own and here's mine. And those are the people. I'm like, I'm going to be friends with you for a long, long time because you're like me. You like to do this stuff. clip cool I think we're done by the way I got to call the

the guy from levels I got to get my my glucose monitor installed for the weight loss challenge oh okay we'll do an update on that I didn't have to call them I think we're supposed to huh

okay well you can join me on this call click share uh or is that like a is there a button like a share button if there is do it let's help us get more listeners

thank you yeah tell the friend bye