My First Million - #88 with Greg Isenberg (part 2) - Why Plugins Are Big Business

Episode Date: July 3, 2020

Joined our private FB group yet? It's a page where people share each others million dollar ideas or what they're already working on: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ourfirstmillion. The guys discuss: Andrew Wilkinson Hey.com replacer, VidIQ for influencers, why Grammarly is a huge business, learning via text messages and Stadium Live (ESPN for Gen Z).  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Welcome back. This is part two of our brainstorm session with Greg Eisenberg. We're going to continue on. We talk about a bunch of different topics. It's pretty fun. Greg's a good guy. Hope you guys like it. So here we go. Part two. Let's do it. I basically sold a box of air on eBay for like three to seven bucks and it would make money on shipping. But I would say like, hey, you're buying a box of air and people would think it would funny. It was funny. And they were buying it for somebody else as a gag or what? Yeah, I think it was mostly a gifting thing. Did you get PR for it?

I got some PR, yeah, a little bit. Love it. All right, I'll tell you guys something, one interesting thing that I'm paying attention to. Greg, are you a car guy? I like cars. Okay, there's this guy named Doug DeMorrow. Do you guys know who Doug DeMorrow is? He's this really nerdy, just like a horribly nerdy guy, and he reviews cars, and he's really funny,

and he's cool, and he's well-loved. And he's got two or three million subscribers on YouTube. And he'll review all types of cars. And he's funny and he's like cute and endearing. And he just launched his own car auction. It's pretty amazing that he did this because he's a YouTuber. And you think, well, like, he's probably not that good at doing other. I mean, you know, he's a YouTuber.

I don't expect him to build a content thing. It's a 2005. I accidentally pulled up. It's called Cars and Bids.com. He launched this site. it looks amazing and he's already populated the site with hundreds of like fancy cars for sale. So the whole point is that it's cars that are vintage or cars that enthusiasts love. So like a 2013 B&WN5.

It's not like a particularly expensive car, but people who love B&Ws love this model of car. It's amazing that this guy built this. And I think that what's interesting to me is that a lot of people, I don't know if he's partnered with someone. I bet you that's what happened. But a lot of people partner with YouTubers, kind of like what they did with Ipsi and the Kardashian lady. And this is just the perfect execution of this. It just launched two weeks ago.

I think this is going to be a huge thing. And these car companies are quite interesting. So this is brilliant. I think if you marry the unbundling of Reddit with the partnerships of influencers, Yes. You're good. Right.

There you go. You get the credibility from the influencer. Put them in, put them on the cap table, whatever. Right. Because look, for any lifestyle trend that you find on Reddit, like the body weight-based fitness thing that Sam's talking about, or vegans or whatever, there's going to be lifestyle influencers that live that same lifestyle

that have gotten famous for it on Instagram, on YouTube, whoever. And if you marry those two together, So you use Reddit as the source for, okay, which lifestyles are trending? Okay, the fire movement is trending in the personal finance community. Cool. Then I need to go find people who live that lifestyle, partner with them for distribution for my product. And in this case, the influencer did it themselves. But more and more people are sort of doing it on an equity basis instead of, you know, pay for post type of thing,

which I think has its tradeoffs, has its pros and cons. It's pretty interesting. Like another thing, what I would do is I'm quite fascinated. the job board space still. I don't think anyone has completely nailed the job board space, but you could definitely do it where you partner with people and you talk about cool companies because the pay per lead for jobs is quite high. So did you guys see what Andrew Wilkinson, another friend of the pod who's coming on, I think next week. Did you see what he posted yesterday on Twitter? I think this is pretty smart. He posted about this Gmail idea. Sam,

did you see it? I did. It was a plug-in for Gmail. that I don't know what it does. He basically, he took the, he replicated the two features that matter in hay, in hay.com, like, hey,

you could screen, you know, new recipients first before they show up in your inbox. And also it'll just hide all your newsletter cruft in one, one spot, like better than the core thing. I think that was,

that was the crux of his idea. But it's like, hey, do you want those cool features of, hey, without having to like go get this new email service and like go learn this new thing? Because I'll just make it an add-on for Gmail.

And I was like, this is why this guy is smart. That was like such a simple, beautiful idea. And I really hope he makes this and is not just tweeting about it. But I know how he rolls. He tweets to like publicly commit to doing something. And so I think he's actually going to get this built because he definitely got a good response from it. But I thought it was a great idea. What do you think of that, Greg?

I love it. You got 2.4,000 likes. And was I right about the summary of what it is? Yeah. Yeah, so it's basically, and I love the way he actually, like, communicates it, which is also just seems like a magical part of how he operates, which is read it out. All right, I'm working on a fun little Gmail plug-in side project. Dot, dot, dot, dot. New line.

It's an email firewall, colon. Number one, filters out newsletters slash noisy crap emails. Side note for, you know, Greg, side note, that's, like, beautiful, like layman's terms. Number two, screens first-time senders similar to hey. Number three, delivers emails a few times a day on a set schedule versus 24-7 in brackets like DND, who wants the beta test, 782 responses. Right. Yeah, this is like, you know, we got to invest in this little Gmail plugin.

Like that's how good this is. This is like a real idea because it's a, if you did these three things, productivity would rise significantly in an email, which is something that everybody's using. And so I think, A, he's the right type of guy to kind of spearhead something like this. He communicated it well, and it's just a simple, it's a simple good idea. Greg, who else do you know that has, do you know any big Gmail plugin or Google Chrome plugin businesses? I do. So I invested in a company called vid IQ. Sean, you, you know Rob, right? Dude, the guy is a legend. and crushing it.

Can you tell a story? He's a tank. Physically he's a tank. We got to say that. Physically he's a tank. He's like the most lovable teddy bear ex-football player of all time. He's in San Francisco. He raises money from like all the right people.

He builds a startup basically like Hootweet but for YouTubers. This isn't like 2012-ish. gets the top 10 biggest video publishers on the platform, AOL, Yahoo, all these big companies, realizes that although it looks cool to work with big companies, you can actually make more money if you just work with little to medium-sized video creators, ends up doing, at this time, this is like 2014 maybe, like the equivalent of nuclear bomb, which is number one,

he like gets rid of most of his team and moves to Santa Cruz, California and becomes like surfs every day like four to five hours a day. So, you know, now remote is obviously more of a thing, but like back then like, you know, and then decides to completely pivot the business and and because he like fundamentally believe like, hey, like I'm going to like forget this website. I'm going to, I'm going to like change this to a Chrome extension. Like, imagine writing that email to your, like, to like, Mark Cuban's one of his investors. And, like, Chris Sock.

How much did they raise? A couple million bucks. Okay. So what happened? He moves to Santa Cruz, converts it to a plugin. It becomes, like, I think the most widely used plugin for, for video creators. He charges for it. Can't show the numbers, but I will say the business is exploits.

loading team size is is quite big as well big i'd have to pull up the investor update but somewhere between you know 45 people i'd say somewhere in that range 45 people full time and like he was just grinding on it like this last time i saw him was a few years ago when we were all hanging out and it wasn't like clear that this was going to be this runaway thing but it was clear that this guy's never going to fucking quit like he was like look i'm doing this and it just wasn't like i would have quit literally nine times during the process that he just kept going and that's what I admire about this guy. I admire that. I admire also that he he didn't really listen to anyone. Like, you know, I think there's just like a lot of founders like listen to

podcast like this and they're like, oh, I'm going to do like what they did. And and it's oftentimes actually the founders that don't even listen to anyone and who just like take selected tidbits based on their life experience. Right. And like really understand like Rob knows video more than and video creators better than anyone in the industry. And it was just like, he's like, he had a point of view. Like having a point of view matters.

Like he's like my point of view is that like video creators don't want to log into this like website, you know, and like have another website. And like who cares if it's a on built on top of Google Chrome? Like who cares? as long as I'm like swiping $9.99 a month for thousands of creators, the hell cares. That's a good one.

Who else do you know? Or what else do you know? I mean, in the Chrome extension space, none as intimately as Rob. I have a friend doing something cool. My friend Stewart is building this thing called, I think it's called luster.a.i. Greg, you've seen this one? No. So I don't know how much.

I'll have to ask him if I can even talk about this, but it's pretty cool. I think he's out publicly, public with it now. But basically, he had built this company called Slant, and Slant was like crushing it on SEO for, like,

when you would search for a product, let's say you want a, find a pair of headphones. He was kind of doing the wire cutter thing, but programmatically and crowdsourced, actually. So you would search for headphones and you would get a result,

which is like, this is the best affordable pick. This is the medium range pick, and this is the high end, I want the best thing for the best, you know, at a high, I'm not as price sensitive pick.

And, And so he was doing that and Slant was doing well, but he was like, he similarly threw the whole thing away, pivoted to a Chrome extension that works on top of several sites. Like I use it on top of Amazon, for example. And it'll just say like, you know, I'm looking for a TV. It'll be like, by the way, here's the best TV worth buying and here's where you can find it at the best price across other other sites. So it's kind of honey-esque, but it's really about the recommendation along with understanding, oh, the price has dropped over here. actually get it over here. It's like kayak or something where they like aggregate New York Times wirecutter and a whole

bunch of stuff to get the reviews. Yeah, I don't use kayak, but so, but it's pretty good. In the 30 seconds that you started explaining this, I like added it and I'm on Amazon and I'm actually looking for a TV and it's giving me recommendations. So that's why like, like that's why these rock because how lightweight they are. rock these rock I like it because it's it's super easy to install it's always present like that's it now I'm an active user right and you're not going to churn I'm not going to churn I mean and number three like I'm a big you know from a thesis perspective a big

believer in curation I think like Amazon's for you know great examples Amazon is great because you can get anything, but people want curation. You know, Instagram's great for people want curation. There's just this demand towards curation, and it's a huge opportunity. And like the Gmail plug-in idea, like because everybody uses email, you only need to grab such a small fraction of this sort of total base. And same thing with like shopping, Amazon, right? Like, so for Luster to work, they only need such a small number of people who are regularly

shopping, and I've seen his charts and it's growing really well. I think that these I personally gravitate towards either super niche and you can own that scene or universal product and you can go for the people who care about let's say quality more than the average more than the 98% of the other people who use that thing those are like you want to kind of polarize in one end or the other and not get stuck in the middle one of the greatest companies ever or that I know of personally is grammarly if you're living underneath a Rock Grammarly is a plugin that helps you write better. It just, people dismiss, probably dismiss the business early on saying this is just word,

what's that called word check? Spell check. Spell check, I mean, this is just spell check. And it's not. It helps you have better grammar. And that's- Also, it kind of just is spell check. Like, right?

Like, and that's actually okay. Like, it was just spell check, but for the internet. Because spell check was limited to like word documents and, you know, text messaging. But you didn't get spell check. in every email you were sending or wherever, right? Like it didn't even have to be more. I mean, it became more as it went, but like, but not much.

Just spell check was fucking great. It was that was a great thesis right there. And I totally dismissed it. Yeah, I dismissed it as well. And then the founder spoke at Hustl Khan and he's like, yeah, we raised $100 million at a billion dollar evaluation.

And I was like, that's crazy. And he goes, yeah, it's pretty awesome. All the money went to us because we make so much. So they must make over $100 million in revenue. Yeah,

I think they're like stupidly profitable. Yeah, it's a fucking plug-in. On the other hand, like, as a consumer, Chrome extensions are a fucking crazy thing to install because they get, like, read permissions on every website you visit, which is just insane. That's like handing over the keys to every account, your bank account, and everything you ever said to anybody.

So I'm very judicious with Chrome extension installation. Most people, it appears, you know, I would say most people don't even know what a Chrome extension is, but then a lot of people install them when it seems like a huge privacy issue. And that's Chrome's old. Chrome doesn't allow you. Do you guys use one password? I hate it.

I also hate it. But yeah, I use it. Explain. I want to hear why. Mine just never works. Yes. Do you use it?

It's quite complicated for me. Like there's the Chrome extension. There's the app I have on my desktop. And then at some point, like one of those like just stops like, like it'll stop auto filling. I'm like fuck. And now I always have to do this like two step process.

Or I'll get a new computer. And I'm like, It's like, what's your seed? I'm like, man, I don't know. I did this like four years ago. I need to remember this thing. Like, I don't know. That's just really hard.

And then the other thing is like anything that's social or with teams, you have to then sort of get to the team thing. And now I get me to get everybody else to adopt one pass. And they're usually less tech savvy than me. And I'm not even that tech savvy. So it ends up being this like failure of like getting other people to adopt it. Like I wish there was a simpler. I wish it was a simple way.

It always runs into Google's. password thing. Right. Like they hit they hit each other somehow. Yeah, I can't stand it. Why? Are you an investor?

Sorry. No, I Listen, one password to me is the necessary evil to do stuff on the internet. Like I think that like people

who don't have password managers like good luck. Right. You know, I think it's worth it. I think, I think, you know, I have it as an extension. I was just looking at my extension.

I'm looking at Loom. I'm looking at OnePassword. I actually think that there's an opportunity to create a better one password, but it's probably a difficult problem. And I hate difficult problems sometimes. I don't even think it's a difficult problem. I think you could do the same thing and just brand it better and write better copy and make it more family friendly and be like this is called Family Password.

And family password helps your family be safe. And it's not one password, which feels to me like an engineer's product built for engineers. And all my engineers at my company are like, yeah, it's great. And they can't believe I'm not using it. And I'm like, I can't believe you use this fucking thing. It's so like difficult to use. And like, I don't know, there's just layers of annoyance with it.

Oh, what you, you mentioned a really, you know, smart idea, which is basically like, how do you take products and just brand them for other audiences? Right. Like the, the Christian, mingle effect, right? It's like, you know, match.com basically created this technology, if you can call it technology. And I guess it's technology. You created some technology, you know, basically basic social networking technology and then focused on a bunch of different verticals. But it's the same underlying. The only thing that's different is marketing. So the

question is, what are other opportunities where you can just take a thing and then brand it for other verticals. You guys want to, this is a slight deviation, but you guys want to see the numbers for, so I own a Google plugin. Yeah. You want to see the numbers for it? It's pretty crazy.

That's me twice. Watch this. Okay, I'm going up this skirt right now. So the hustle has a plug-in. Can you see my screen? Yeah. Okay, so all of this. Thrilling for the audio listeners. Okay, guys, well, I'm going to try and tell them.

Okay, so if you, if you you go to snippets by the hustle, it's a plugin that says it has 5,000 users. And all it is is you open your plugin, you open your desktop and a new, and an article comes up like a new headline. And if you click- Every new tab, every new tab, the default like blank page has a news article. Yeah. And you can hit refresh up here and that will refresh it and give you a new article. It's super simple.

There's not complicated at all. I made it or we made it in 2015. I'll check out this, check out this. We made it one time and we sent one email about it and I never touched it ever again. It has, check this out. Okay, so I'm going, I'm on Google Analytics. I'm going back to 2015. Let's see how many page views.

Probably gotten 20 million page views. So 40 million page views it's gotten and it's only had a lifetime of 28,000 users. But I promoted it one time, literally one time. and look at the retention. That's crazy, right? So, like, this was in, what year was this? Oh, I changed the Google Analytics, but this, I believe it was still in 16.

But, like, they stuck. They stick. And what's interesting is that per session, so each time someone opens a new tab, on average, they click refresh four times. That's cool. So you're basically hijacking their, their workflow of what they're trying to do. They're like, oh, I need to go to my email.

Oh, wait, hold on. There used to be this Chrome extension called Momentum that I thought was awesome. It was really fucking simple. You would open a new tab and it would just have a beautiful photo. And it would say, good afternoon, Sean, or whatever time of the day it was. And the lighting would kind of change depending on what time of day it was. And it would say, you know, what's your focus for today? And I could just type it in.

And then from that moment on, like it would just always say like, good evening, Sean. your focus of the day is this. And I love that thing. And this was so viral. I just noticed every time I'd open my laptop and I'd be doing something, somebody, like the person over my shoulder

would always pause me and be like, what's that? What's that thing? And so like this could be paired with the Reddit thing from earlier where you could actually pair a delivery mechanism, which is this Chrome extension for new tabs,

with a market segment that's really avid that you found on a subreddit. There's a product idea here. I really want to fund. I tried telling my friend Jake to do, to build this thing, wasn't super interested just because it's very like front end heavy and he's a back end engineer but if there's a front end engineer if there's an engineer who loves good design um this is the

product I want to I would invest in to get built so I don't know if you guys ever seen I think I talked about this once but I don't have you ever seen Stripe home have you guys ever seen this product so Stripe basically did something that's actually several companies do which is they build an internal sort of like home page for their company and Stripe Home is an unreleased product. I don't know why. It looks amazing. They've clearly put like thousands of hours of dev cycles and design cycles into this thing. Basically it'll show like, hey, here's the five new employees we hired. Here's some company announcements. Here's like, you know, some funny quote or whatever. And it says this really good homepage. If you start opening a new tab,

I think that's what you see if you have a stripe image laptop for your company. And so I think every company would want this. When you give your employee a laptop, I think you would want to have like a branded new tab homepage. And so it would be home for whatever your company is. And Sam, I know you kind of had something like this out of rippling or something like that. Yeah, well, that's what I was about to say. This is, I agree everyone wants this,

but you'd have to attach it to someone's payroll or their HR software. I don't think you do. I don't think you do because I think what you do is you just make it where any, it's like bottoms up. Any engineer at the company can like enable this for their company. You don't have to really hook into who are the new hires and all that good stuff. Like there's just some basic information that you can, that you can show without hooking in and then you can get better like,

like Slack as you integrate more sources of data. And so like Amazon has a thing called phone tool that does this, where you can go to phone tool and it's hooked into the data system. So you can go look up any employee, you can see who they report to, you can see where they are in the org chart, you can see their level. And I know that Clearbit made this for their company.

And so they have a Clearbit homepage that they worked on developing. So anytime you see several companies building the same in-house system for themselves, that's something that you could export out and can be given to any company out of the box as an easy-to-use thing. And this is something that literally you just win on design. If you go look at when Stripe Home talks about it on Twitter, there's like hundreds and hundreds of replies on the tweet because people just think it's beautiful. And they don't even need the functionality. They just like the look of it, just like the momentum tab.

People liked what my new tab looked like. And I think you could do the same for businesses and you could charge them for it. So free idea. Free idea. Just tell me if you're doing it because I want to invest. I got to check out guys. I'll talk to you soon, Greg. See you, Sean.

Yeah. See you. Later. Keep on. Keep it going. Greg, I got two more things for you and then we can bounce. Cool.

First question for you. Do you think that there's, do you think that there's going to be sort of a backlash against TikTok or TikTok will just get banned for being sort of Chinese spyware? And should somebody just be, you know, like Triller or somebody just be positioning themselves as the, as a net waiting to catch all these TikTok users if people revolt against TikTok,

which is sort of a Chinese company and there's been lots of reports. It was a big Reddit thread recently about how much data it's pulling off of your phone and how it's basically spyware. I think Jason Kalkanis has tweeted about this too. I think he sees a lot of opportunity. You know, I think

if we look as like the past, as a best predictor of the future, there's been so much anti-Facebook sentiment and people still use Facebook products. I think I don't see a massive opportunity to like wait for that, to be honest. I would agree the only difference here is that I think it might be government based this time.

Like India just banned TikTok in India and TikTok's fucking huge in India. So somebody's going to get the benefit of that. I don't know who it's going to be, but like, I think if the government comes out and does it, that's different than like people all sort of, there's no way they're all gonna coordinate and decide to care on a given day and move networks.

That I don't think happens. Yeah. Okay, two other random ideas I saw. There's a company called Arest. I don't know how you say it, Arest, but it's kind of interesting. It's called, the website is, let's find it. It's like Arest, text messaging courses.

basically these guys are letting you build a course like teachable just through text message delivery. So it's aris.com. And so you can go on. I could be like, hey, I'm going to teach you how to start businesses. Like I might do this. I might just make one of these just to try this platform out. But I can be like, hey, I can help you, I don't know, get business ideas. I learn how to start a business.

And I have a little editor on my side. I can create a text drip. And people can receive these text messages, you know, on a daily business. basis, like learning in little nuggets. I thought it was kind of an interesting idea, interesting concept. What do you think of this? I can't tell you how good of an idea this is. This is like,

this is like a no-brainer to like set up 10 courses. Like, you know, what I would do is start like almost like a little bit of a management company for ERIS, like find like, you know, you're the idea guy. Dating coach. Yeah, date it. And just like, okay, I'm going to help you like get this out there.

You do the editing. You do the paid ads on Facebook. And then it's new. So it's interesting. The idea around like, oh, through text. It's kind of interesting. It's not like another guy pressing a button. You get to this landing page.

Hey, let me sell you this course. Right. Easy. Yeah, I think this is kind of cool. I'm going to try it. I'm going to make one. Actually, I don't know how much effort is going to be. If the platform is easy to use, I'm going to try one.

And we'll see. We'll see what happens with this. What's the most sort of interesting thing you've seen lately that's outside of the sort of Reddit investigation you've been doing, either something you've thought of or another product that you really like right now? Top of mind, there's a app called Hags, H-A-G-S, which is a app built on top of SNAP, basically. Is that like the old yearbook, like Hags thing?

Is that what it stands for? Yes, exactly. So it's yearbook signatures. You, I think there's tons of opportunity on top of SnapKit, which is SNAP's developer platform. And Hags is obviously taking advantage of that. Hags, if you don't know, stands for Have a Great Summer, which is what people used to sign off with on yearbooks.

Exactly. So you basically post a story, like swipe up to sign my... my yearbook and you can it's basically a high school social network and and the entry point is through yearbooks um what i love about it number one built on top of snap kit tons of opportunity right there um go look into that like especially like building they just announced mini apps you can create like apps within um snap conversations i see that being huge um so i like that I like their design style. Like,

their design, like, if you, you know, I think there's so many apps out there that they all just look the same. And it's just refreshing to see something new. Even that,

the website that you showed with the Chrome extension, the Amazon one, that, or the product recommendation one like that. Like, I looked at it. I'm like, yeah,

I'm in because it's like cool. It's interesting looking. Yeah. It's interesting looking. So it's like design something that's interesting. Hanks does that. And it just shot up in the charts. And,

you know, And it's been cool to see. So I really like that. What else have I been really liking? Stadium Live is pretty cool. I don't if you've seen that. I saw when it got funded. It's like a sports fan thing.

But what's cool about it? It's like basically like, again, in this sort of like Gen Z world, it's like basically ESPN for Gen Z. You get assigned of, I'm very interested in like virtual avatars. There's an entry point to, socialization. As COVID and this pandemic continues, people are going to be looking for new ways to just connect with one another. And Avatar is a really good one. You get

assigned an avatar. You join like a game basically, e-sports or sports. And, you know, it might be like Toronto Maple Leafs versus Montreal Canadians. You see it again, connects with Snapchat. So it's your bitmoji that you can edit. And you can just see other people there. There's like poles and stuff to keep you entertained. And you kind of feel like you're in this virtual environment. So what I love about it is like number one virtual environment, number two, vertical

network, number three built on top of snap. I like that. You know, when you said avatars remind me of app I saw this weekend, it's actually number one in the charts right now. I don't know if you've seen it. It's called Trivia Royale. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I love it. So this was made by the guys who made quiz up, I think.

So this guy, Thor and somebody else, they have this new company called T-Time Games. And they made QuizUp, which was like, you know, the most popular quiz trivia app at the time. Kind of went through a rise in a big fall. And then they kind of spun out. They're like, all, we're doing it again. And so the way this one works, you download the app, you make a little avatar, which is like, doesn't sound that great yet. but they use face moji which is cool so it's actually a pretty good high quality one but they combined the trivia game of like hq or quiz up with battle royale from fortnight so it's start

every game starts with a thousand people and you go head to head against somebody and you play you do five questions of trivia and at the end you win or they win and then it goes like the pool cuts in half so now there's 500 players left then 250 then 125 and just keeps going until there's one person left standing as the winner winner of trivia reaelle and it's number one in the charts right now. It's a beautifully made app. It's just really well done. I don't know if it'll have the sort of stickiness that you would want,

but I don't know. I like it. It's sort of same guys working on the problem from a different angle, which I always respect. Yeah, I think I love it, beautiful. Games is always one of those things where, you know, as you know, is it a hit or can they build it sort of as a platform?

Right. But I feel like these guys, guys, I mean, they probably learned a lot from QuizUp and they probably got a good shot at it. So I'm pretty excited about it. Games struggle because games are both a hit business and a fad business. And people kind of confuse those too. And it's like to hit business as in your game just out the gate could be a flop or a hit. But even if it's a hit, it could then be a fad hit or it could be a long lasting League of Legends type of hit, which is super sticky.

And you really only get the value if you get the hit and it's not a fad or you just do a bunch of fad hits over and over and over again as a studio doing little quick hitters. And so that's the, those are the only two models at work in gaming, unfortunately. Which is tough. Like, you don't want to be on that treadmill. Exactly. Or you do if it's your first time and you got a bunch of energy and you're like, yeah, this is great.

I'm going to do this thing that's really fun. And then, you know, for me at least, the further you go, you're like, hell no, I don't want to, if it's a treadmill, I don't even want to touch it. I don't want to get near it. Another, like, I don't know if you saw it, It's Me. It's me. Is this a, is this the dating app or which one is this? Yeah, it's kind of, it's more of like a make friends app, but it could be used for dating.

Also Avatar. So you download the app, you tell you, you know, they ask you like, what are you into, animals, whatever. There's some sort of like, curation. Yeah. Personality quiz, exactly. they ask you to create an avatar. You create an avatar. Then you're in this world, basically.

You chat roulette style, press a button, get connected with someone who they think you would like drive with. And basically as you like move your head, your avatar, just like on the Facebook. Yeah, exactly. It tracks you. It's cool because you're getting to know someone through your voice plus avatar. Right. It kind of lowers the barrier, the friction.

It's not your real face. You're not on webcam. You don't have to care about how you look, but it's higher fidelity than just a still photo and text. Exactly. So what other verticals could you do that in? Right. Yeah, so many ideas, dude. Okay, dude, this is great. I'm glad you came back on. We should wrap it up. But let us know what you think. If you guys love Greg, let us know that we'd have Greg on more. If you hate Greg, let us know that we'll never let Greg on again. So Greg, good times, man. All right. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Cool. Take care. See yeah.