My First Million - Are the Olympics a Waste of Time?, The Tinder Swindler, Paper Cut Companies, Money Therapy, and More

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@theSamParr) discuss the Olympics and whether it is worth while to spend time trying to get a gold medal, companies that make billions solving small "paper cut" problems, why Sam thinks he needs a money therapist, and much more. ----- * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ----- Show Notes: (00:20) - The Paralympics and the Olympics (18:15) - Creating new docs and "paper cut companies" (28:05) - How to create great experiences (37:20) - Is Sam Ovens legit? (46:55) - The 0.01% Rule (52:50) - Money therapy (57:00) - The Tinder Swindler ----- Links: * https://www.golinks.io/ * https://coolors.co/ * https://www.boardroominsiders.com/ * https://pitchbook.com/ * The Tinder Swindler: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254340 ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Yeah, we have the big spectacle. We have the screens. We have the thing when we hit our donation goal. There's going to be the big like fireworks or whatever for doing the moment. That's the moment. So the difference between us and everybody else is that we also care about the moments between the moments. All right. Sean, do me a favor.

Go to our document and look at the video that I posted to the Instagram, the Instagram link. So I found this this weekend. I was sitting in the bath. I just watched this. Right before the pond, I watched this. Yeah. Does that? Okay, so I was sitting in the bath, just chill and watching Instagram. Have you ever sit in the bath? You're like bath Sundays and just kind of sit for a few minutes.

I have kids. Dude, my bath is very different than yours now. Well, that's true. So it was Sunday bath, just chilling, going through Instagram. And I got this video of this lady. It's a woman from Germany. I think she's German and a guy. And they're running together on a 200 meter race at the Paralympics. She's blind and he's the guide runner. they win the race and they start hugging and she's all crying. Is that the coolest video you've seen today or what? I didn't actually understand what was happening.

It just looks like they're racing against each other. I wouldn't have even known what this was if you hadn't said anything. So she's blind and she must not be fully blind. And what they do in the Paralympics is if you're not. Yeah, they put a blindfold on everyone because some people might be legally blind and they could still kind of see a little bit. And so what they do is they put this blindfold on everyone. and then these women are like really fast women so like another woman can't be their guide

because there's just, you know, faster men who can keep up. And so they're all teamed up with a guy who helps their foot into the blocks and puts their hand in the right place and then has to run alongside them stride for stride and they'll say like, all right, you're in second now or like you're in first like, all right, we're on the straightaway like pretty cool stuff

and it seems really rewarding. I'm going to do this. So I've contacted a track coach. all this video, you got emotional. You know, the bath bomb started hitting and I started getting misty and you just decided, this is what I'm born to do. I'm going to be a guide runner

or you want somebody to guide you. Which one are you trying to do? So, so here's the deal. I am now, I'm still fast enough that I am as fast as some of these blind women. I'm not as fast as the blind men, but I can keep up with the women a little bit. And I probably have five more years

where I can keep up with them. And so I can't, I'm not good enough to go to the Olympics. was, and particularly now as I get older, I'm not good enough. This is my shot. This is my way to get into the Olympics, is to be a guide runner for a blind lady. Somebody called you out on Twitter for this. They go, he did it. The perfect Sam backhanded compliment.

Because you were like backhand complimenting myself. Yeah, kind of yourself. I don't know, the whole sport, because you were like, I'm not as fast as I used to be. I'm still fast enough with this to keep up with an elite blind woman. No. That wasn't my point. I'm just like, it's just a fact.

They're like this lady, she ran 23 seconds. I can run 23 right now. I'm not, there's no, is not like, this isn't even like, this is like awesome.

I think it's awesome. I think it'd be way more fun. I'm not like making fun of these people. You have to be a good person to do this at the Paralympics. You're not a good enough person, dude. We were too rough around the edges. Me?

Yeah. You're going to get canceled before the race. You're going to say something. Dude, I tip like 50% when I go out to eat. I'm a great guy. Yeah, that's what you got to ask yourself. Where's that coming from? What are you trying to cover up with these 50% tips?

I'm a good dude, man. I'm glad you. I could do this. I'm glad you brought up the Olympics. So probably don't even know this. The Winter Olympics are going on right now. I've learned that like yesterday. They're going on right now.

The ratings are like the lowest it's ever been. All right. And then I forgot to tell you this, but this is the most important. important thing. I can't believe we didn't talk about this earlier, to be honest with you. Because if you're listening to this and you like what you're hearing right now and you haven't gone and subscribed to the My First Million podcast wherever you get your podcast, then that's the thing you've got to do. There's nothing more important than doing that right now. And don't do it because I said to do it.

Do it because you want to do it. Do it because that's who you are. Winter Olympics in general are like, you know, less popular than the normal Olympics. Some people are super into it. My buddy Trevor, he's my roommate. He loves. loves the Olympics. Like the Olympics would come around. He's like, clear the schedule 24-7. I'm just watching whatever's on. And like, I kind of got into it with him.

I do that too, by the way, but only for the summer. Right, for the summer. Winter aren't real. Exactly, exactly. So you should say that when you're in the Winter Olympics guide, bobsled team. Just be like, I can't wait to do this for a real sport. So I was watching the Super Bowl.

Then like after the Super Bowl, just like immediately auto cut to the Winter Olympics. And I was watching somebody do like the toboggan. And I just thought of a very controversial take. This take was too spicy for Twitter. I didn't even dare put it on Twitter because I was like, I'm going to get so much heat for this. The toboggan is the person who lays on the sled.

I thought that was a luge. Okay, maybe I maybe it was a bobsled. Maybe it was a tibagin. Was it like one person? It was one person. They were running. They're pushing the thing. Yeah.

The difference is that. that one, they go face first and one they go like on their back, on their butt, legs first. So completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. Yes, one of those was happening. And then I thought, so our buddy Nick tweeted this out during the Super Bowl because Nick likes to just like stir the pot on Twitter. That's like his character on Twitter.

And he was like watching sports are a complete waste of time. You know what I'm doing right now? Working on my business. That's how you get ahead. When everybody's zigging you zag. And he's doing something like that. By the way, earlier that day, he was texting us photos of him partying. So. Yeah, dude, he's parties all the time.

Like, this guy's not like, like, Nick lives like the most charmed life. He's like, oh, you know, I'm tired of playing golf, so I'm going to now relax. Right? Like, guys got like, I guess self-storage is a pretty hands-off business. So, you know, he's got a lot of time on his hands. But he likes to tweet stuff to the pop. And so people started, you know, fighting about it. Here's my take that's kind of like that.

that I just didn't want to get into on Twitter. The Olympics are an example of how to waste your life. So here's the spicy take. So I'll explain. I understand. That's harsh. But here's the take. I once was listening to an interview with this guy, Max Levchen.

Max Levchen created PayPal, which is a pretty important, like, internet invention, the ability to send money to each other on the internet. So he creates PayPal. PayPal becomes a huge success. And for his next act, do you remember the company that he started next? It was called slide, I think.

Slide. And describe what Slide did for the people. It was advertising technology or games, I forget, but it didn't work that well. Many little, mini apps on top of MySpace and Facebook. So it'd be like,

slide show. Yeah, like you want to put up a slideshow of like photos with some music on it? You slide. You want to throw sheep at your friend. Use slide. Slide makes all these apps that are like, you know, poke your friend.

Oh, we created an app called double poke. It's better than a poke. But they made money through ads, I think. It was so it was ultimately almost like, it was just like a way to get lots of impressions and then add. Ultimately, the whole thing lost money. It didn't make any money. They ended up selling to Google mostly because of Max.

I think it was Google that bought them. So they, whatever. It didn't end up working. But the point was they go, Max, you did PayPal. Then you had slide, which had like explosive growth on top of these really fast growing social networks, but ultimately kind of fizzled out. like, what have you learned? He said one thing that, like, has stuck with me.

It's stuck with me, which means I must have been guilty of it many times for this to stick with me this hard. He goes, well, here's what I learned with slide. You can spend, be careful because you can spend your whole life optimizing for nothing. And he's like, you could optimize anything to the, to the infinity degree. He's like, so we come out with super poke or whatever. their apps were at the time like, you know, super poke, it's like better than a poke. And then all of a sudden, I have these brilliant engineers from Stanford and whoever else. And their job every day was to increase the poke per user ratio by this much to get clicks up, to get, you know, to earn an extra

three cents per click. And ultimately, we spent years just optimizing the viral coefficient of how I can get super poke spread across my space. It's like, and his message was, be careful. Because it doesn't matter how smart you are, anything can be optimized to like infinity. So pick wisely. Like, you know, the same brainpower and energy went into building PayPal as went into building these silly apps on slide. And I've been like, you know, there's been my thing. My, my sort of mountain to die on, which is like project collection is everything.

But you are so wrong when you're talking about the Olympics. This is the Olympics. This person who's running and then diving into this toboggan, they basically, to me, they got tricked by society. society basically told them hey you know what devote your whole life give up everything basically to train every day to become the best in the world at this arbitrary thing that we've made fun of you're not are you going to make a lot of money from it no are you going to develop these like amazing other aspects of your personality in your life no you're going to go super single minded

to turn yourself into a human weapon of doing this one random thing sliding your body in a tube down this shoot for 40 seconds. And your job is to get it from 40 seconds to 39.9.9 seconds. That is your life. And then, hey, when it's over, good luck. Just go figure out the rest of the life now that you're, you've peaked at age 26 and then, you know, go ahead and figure the rest of life out.

So I think the Olympics are an example of optimizing your life on the dumbest shit. Okay, go. All right. I'm going to make an argument to say why you are entirely incorrect. And I've got wonderful examples. Correct. Oh, I thought you were going to tell me I'm an idiot. Incorrect.

You're an idiot. And here's why. Sports represents so much more. There's only basically two things that transcend language, religion, and culture. It's basically art and sports. I think those are the only two things. Maybe family, but that's about it. And so what sports represents is so much more than just optimizing the seconds.

Not only is it about like the being disciplined and all that and how those are good qualities, but it's about culture. So think about this. And the 19th, I think it was 33 Olympics or 32 Olympics in Berlin. It was in Berlin and Hitler was in the stands doing a Zcowl. And they were still getting there. At that point, they just started like, you know, messing around with the Jews and getting rid of them. Jesse Owens wins the long jump in 100 meter dash when Hitler's saying like, well, the Aryan race is the best race.

And anything, you know, outside of that is inferior. And Jesse Owens sticks it to him. Another example is this woman named Catherine Switzer. You probably don't know who she is. But have you ever seen this famous picture of this? woman running a marathon and there's a priest pushing her out of the road. So, okay, so her name's Catherine Switzer. Look it up.

So look up. Marathon woman push and you'll see this famous picture. So for a long time, women were not allowed to run marathons. So there was no such thing as, first of all, women weren't even in the Olympics. And they thought that like, oh, women are just too weak to run. And this woman came along and I don't remember what year it was. I think it was the 70s. And she starts running this marathon.

And there's this famous picture of this guy pushing. out of the street and that like signals to all women like no F this you could do it all right you got this and then you got guys like this guy who you can't see all the way his name steeprefontein Steve prefontein he ran in the 1960 uh 19702 olympics i believe in uh Munich Munich and what happened at that Olympics was basically a bunch of terrorists took over and they killed a bunch of Israeli athletes have you heard about this they took over this helicopter they kidnapped these Israeli athletes, these wrestlers. They threw them in the helicopter.

The Israeli army tried to capture them and it blew up and it ruined the whole Olympics. And you know what they said the next day? They go, F this. We got to go compete. This is what we have to do. We got to compete. We got to bring this together. And Steve Prefontein, this guy who's on my wall, he was at the Olympics. And he said these amazing quotes, like to give anything less than your best is a sacrifice to the gift.

He eventually inspired this guy, Phil Knight and Bill Bowerman to go start a company that they called Nike. And Steve Prefonte was their first athlete. And this is all because of the Olympics and this is all because of sport. And the Olympics happens just every four years. And it's one way to bring a beginning and an end to the last trailing four years of training and preparing a discipline. And it accumulates in this thing. This is incredibly essential. It represents race relations.

Women's rights. Fuck, go look at the every year at the Olympics, they do the procession where your country comes in. They've got this thing called, I forget what they call it. But it's for people who are going through war and who don't have a country. So for example, I believe in London, I think it was like Sudan or. or the Congo Republic. I forget one of those countries was not considered a country

by like they're going through civil war. And so they just said, hey, we're just going to create a refugee country. You now have your own country. Or when Taiwan or in Hong Kong are going through their issues, it's a huge deal that for the Olympics that they announced,

well, are they going to have their own country or are they not? Or recently a Kenyan swimmer was in the first ever summer Olympic swimming. This is beyond sports. This is a really big deal. That's my plea. That's why I think this is actually awesome.

Tell me how you really feel. That was good, right? That was good. Just tell me one thing. Who's the greatest Luge competitor of all time? Can you just name them? Everything that I just said was only for the Summer Olympics.

The Winter Olympics are fake. If you need a judge under sport, it's probably not that real of a sport. That's why track and field, swimming and all those like races, that's why they're like real sports. Yeah, so everything I said, No, no, no.

That, it's only every four years. So I'm mostly just messing around also. I like, I like watching the Olympics. In general, I think it's cool. Obviously, I think it's cool if people like excel in things. That's awesome. My point is, I think that there's like, you know, like, for example, if my kid was like, had the potential, if you told me right now, hey, your kid has the potential to be the greatest, you know, like, at whatever, the greatest third person in the, you know, the greatest third person in. the bobsled in the country.

But here's what you have to do every day, every weekend for the, you know, the next 20 years of their life is going to go into optimizing their body and mind to be able to do this, which essentially is what goes into like becoming an Olympian, right? You're trying to become the best in the world at an arbitrary game that was made up. And you have to sacrifice a huge amount of your life and focus and attention and energy and talents, you decide to invest into this. And the thing you get out is character building, life lessons. And the other thing you get that from the Boy Scouts.

You know, potentially a moment of fame when, if you want, if you actually did achieve the thing and you have the, you know, sort of the, the knowing inside your heart that this was, this was good. So like, you know, would I rather be, you know, Steve Prefontein, this, you know, this good looking mustache runner guy or what I rather have been Phil Knight? I'd rather be Phil Knight. I think actually he's the perfect example. What did Fri Fontaine get out of, you know, Nike, nothing.

And so he actually, where's he now, right? He died three years into founding the company from a drinking, driving accident. So yeah, you're right. Okay. Jokes not so funny now. It didn't work out. Wait, so he was actually a co-founder of Nike or he just inspired them? He was in their crew and he was their first sponsored athlete and like their fifth or 10th employee or something like that.

And if you ask Phil Knight who, you know, who's, who's Nike's mentor or sorry, who's Nike's mascot? They'll say it's pre-fonte. Yeah. So anyways, my point is, I think that there's a lot of things that are fun and they're best done as hobbies versus trying to become the best in the world at it. Right. I can play, you know, call of duty and have a bunch of fun with my friends. I can even play, you know, the competitive side of things just because I like to scratch that it. And I play a couple hours a week.

But once I try to become the best in the world at it, the level of sort of sacrifice and over-indexing on that thing. And hey, you could do it. You could over-index on anything. You can try to become the fastest typer in the world. You could try to become the best photographer of brown leafs in the world. And, you know, like, you could do all those things. So choose carefully.

Choose which one you want, what you really want to go into. It's like people who dedicate their lives to be an average D3 basketball player. It's like, it could work. You could, you could go to the NBA. But, like, odds are the papers or the writings on the, on the wall. like it's probably not going to happen. So maybe you should actually like study a real major instead of basket weaving or communications. Right.

And if you enjoy it, fantastic. If you're enjoying every step of the way, fantastic. But a lot of things in my experience are most enjoyable when done as hobbies versus when done with the competitive pursuit of becoming the absolute best in the world at it. The guy used to work out of his dojo, he used to tell me that. I was like, oh yeah, I really like this. So I might start a business around it. He goes, oh, yeah. Dave Grosbott.

He goes, easiest way to fuck up a hobbies, turn it into a job. And I remember just hearing that and being like, that's interesting. I actually never really thought about that. Yeah, actually there are some things that are really fun as hobbies that become really unfun as jobs, right? It's like, oh, yeah, I love eating cinnabon. Working at a cinnabon, smelling a synobon, eating free sinne anytime you want. That's not so fun.

Dude, that's how I feel about business sometimes. Like whenever I go to my friend Nick Ray always host these meetups and I'm his friend so I go and he's like say your name and what you do for work and I'm like I don't want to say what I do I'm sick of talking about work that's all I ever talk about his business like I don't want to talk about that shit ever again right so I feel you all right let's do some other stuff um okay I don't know where we want to go we can go ideas or we can just shoot that's all we have I think well I have a couple things I didn't actually put him on this list yet but uh okay so I'll give you a quick idea um I was in a pitch beating so this founder was pitching me his company

and he was just like screen sharing so he was showing me a product demo and it was like a data analytics tool and he was like yeah so like check this out if I go to Excel and then he like he just opens up the browser I never see this before he goes he just opened up the browser he goes sheets dot new

enter and then he opened up a Google sheet like a blank spreadsheet and I go I go whoa what's just what was that and he goes oh yeah I'll tell you I'll show you later because he was so annoyed with me just going on tangents about every random thing he was doing Like you wanted to be showing me his product. Not the fact that you could type sheets.

Dot new and save myself like, I fucking Google, I Google, Google Drive, then I get to drive, then I click new, then I go down the menu, then I find spreadsheet,

then I click new spreadsheet, then I get to a sheet. It's like this annoying thing I do six times a day. And so just seeing this was like, well, that's awesome. And it reminded me that there's a whole company out there called Go Links. Have you ever heard of Go Links?

No, what is that? So I saw this in, a or when I was working at Twitch the kind of like whoever the I don't even know his job title like BP of everything that kind of that number two guy at Twitch

my boss this guy Dan he was like he's like God we have so many documents in this company and now I just have bookmarks and tabs just with like all these docs open at all times in this company he's like and if I ever want to look up like oh the annual plan it takes me like five minutes every time I want to find it goes I don't know

why we don't just use Go Links and what Go Links does is it lets you set up a thing that's like go dot annual plan or like you know you can just basically type in like a human readable link and you can anchor it to any doc and so let's say you know you that's anchor to the 2021 doc oh now it's 22 cool we just swap the link out we just are so we like we can still always type go slash you know uh annual plan or go slash plan and go slash pan will now take us to the 22 doc and i saw this i was like wow this is actually so useful to just be able to quickly find and like revoke access properly to to different documents.

And so, so I really like this. Most people haven't heard of this. And I think it's a very expensive tool. I think it's like a pretty like enterprisey tool. I see at the top here they raised a $27 million. $27 million series A. Okay.

So doing pretty well, obviously. So I think somebody could build this is like a very simple product. I think somebody could build a Go Links for like the startup level world. More like you, bro. Indie hackers. I just invested in one. Oh, really? What is it?

Yes. So I told you about it too. I swear. I told you about it. It's called NERA. And I'm in this too. I'm in this too. Oh, I'm in this too. Oh, I. So that's the same thing. Right. So this is this is slightly different. I don't think they do the the shortcuts to the links. Maybe this is a feature they should add. What they're doing, what NERA is doing is we all companies have all these docs and then people get fired or they move teams or whatever. But people still have access. It's like, oh, yeah, I still got this link. It just opens up the like the numbers. for the company or like yeah this contractor we hired still has access to all of our files but like who the heck can go audit and keep up and scrub the access for this thing that's like it's like a very big problem like your company's most sensitive data is all in the cloud and then the cloud like access is shared amongst like so many people and there's no central place to see who sees what and so nera's building that they're building the who has access to what yeah but i think the link thing is a feature maybe yeah maybe it is a feature I'm saying I think it's a

feature that can be standalone because adopting something like Nero is like something that's going to go through my like you know chief security officer type of thing like this is going to go through our CIO or CSO whereas this Go Links thing is something that like you know me and my one person who I work with like we're both just irritated with these super long

ugly Google Docs links that like you know like we can't find anything it takes forever to find stuff they have a free plan Nero does. No, Go Links. Oh, Go Links does. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I don't know what at one point they do this, but I don't know why this is not more popular.

This is like a real problem. And then this also just got me thinking like, what else is like this? What are the other problems that are like these? Like, I call them paper cut companies. So, you know, death by 1,000 paper cuts. So like, what's a thing that's irritating, but you do it so often that is just a constant paper cut that just annoys you. Screenshots is another one that like sharing screenshots was one that was a big paper cut.

I invest in this company called Bubbles that tries to make that better. Is it working? I remember Bubbles. Is it working? I don't know. I haven't caught up with them in a little while. I know it was working initially. They raised a bunch of money from that.

But I feel like it hasn't taken over like, you know, the loom market yet. But maybe it's going into a different market. I'm not sure. The screenshot one's a good idea. Also, the copy and paste. The copy and paste, I've been thinking for years. How can I optimize? a copy and paste.

Yes, a better clipboard. I've been thinking about that for a long time. That's always an interesting thing to me is the clipboard. That's really intriguing. But the problem with these types of products is you have to truly be inventive. I don't particularly have that muscle to be that creative. So people who invent things like this or like even like what's that guy named Howie, who's got the huge company, Air Table.

Air Table. Creating something like Air Table, which is basically kind of like a Excel but different and better or even creating like a notion. I don't like these people kind of are geniuses who can like come up with like these weird product features and like they just know that like if you hover your mouse over this it needs like that they're so complicated. They're so complicated. It's pretty amazing.

Yeah. They're big on details. And I'll tell you the best thing I heard about details like this. I'm not detail oriented. Like if this camera showed my desk, you would see like, yeah, I'm obviously not. organized or detail oriented. Like everything is sloppy. Even my camera right now is actually slightly crooked,

but I just don't care. I just don't care about details and pretty much anything I do. So that's why you're talking with like your neck a little. Yeah, that's why I often do this. I end every podcast with the crick. But, you know,

like I'm not a sweat of details person, but I remember the first time I used Slack. I used Slack really early on. It was like in beta. I should have invested in it. I just wasn't an investor back then. I didn't think about it that way. But I used it.

And I remember the first thing. One thing I did was I, I was telling our designer, hey, yeah, here's the color for like our logo or whatever. Or they sent it to me and they just sent the hex code. So like, you know, heck, you know, like pound CFF or, you know, 373. And it just turned it into a small tiny color swatch. And I remember thinking, why the fuck did they do that? Like what level of care went into caring that the hex code would just auto format with a little swatch next to it?

That's what I mean. Nobody would do that unless you were like a real product designer who sweat the details, who used this product all the time and just dedicated yourself to like anytime you could just scratch your own it and irritate, you know, like remove one paper cut from your own user experience, you're going to do it. And so this is why also working on your own products, working on products that you want to be the user of helps because you'll get so annoyed at the paper cuts. You'll just get rid of them yourself.

All right. Let me give me an example of another one. So I'm only bringing this up because of colors. So I've told you about this company. called WGSN. They make $90 million a year and it's a, it's like an info product all about colors. I don't want to talk about that. So Ben, go to, so it's called cool, co-coolers.com. Like cool, o-r-s dot co. Coolers.com. So basically, whenever I'm creating a new product or a new website, you have to pick like a good color scheme. Oh, this is great. It's bad ass, dude. It's so

good. So basically, let's say that like for me, mostly I'm just like a black and white guy. I want the text to be black. I want the background to be white. But then you still need like some radiant of gray. And then you want the links to be some like gradient of red. What goes good with that? What goes good with this color of blue? And so what you could do is look at the very bottom where it says,

when you see the lock button, when you see, so basically it shows you five colors. You can randomly select one or you can tell it which one you want. And let's say you like the blue. You click lock on that. And then it shows you four more that fit that. Then you click lock on the next one and it shows you three more that fit that. Is this golden? Is this website amazing?

what. That's amazing. That is so good. And I love that. I've been going this for years and years and years. At first, it started out just like this tiny little project. Now it gets like 5 million monthly Uniques according to Similar Web. And it's got a pro version. It's got all

these amazing versions. So yeah, it gets 5 million monthly uniques. It's got a Figma plugin, a Chrome extension. It's got all this amazing stuff. And they have a pro version that I actually don't know what you get with the pro version. But how neat is this? This is a paper cut problem that actually, I bet has turned into a business that makes many, many, many millions of dollars a year.

And this is the type of company that you could own for like 30 years. And it probably would make pretty consistent seven figure profit every single year. Yeah. How does this one make money? Does it charge for anything? So they do a couple things. If you look on the top, you'll notice that they have a Squarespace ad. So it has ads.

And then they have a pro version. So it's billed $36 a year, which is stupid. And you get lots of different features. But I would charge like way more because you already know that this company has like a like a basically what you would do is if I own this. I log on. I look at all the email addresses I've ever collect. I do like a control find Uber, Adobe, whatever, like companies that have bought it and I go and upsell them on some like crazy high thing. Right.

Can I tell you the philosophy? I'm not detail oriented, but here's a philosophy I heard that I was like, oh, this explains. why some things, when I, once I'm from some products, some experiences, some hotels, when I go into them, I'm like, this just feels good. What's going on here? I can't even put my finger on what feels good about it. I was talking to Scott Harrison. He's the founder of Charity Water. And Charity Water puts on dope events. Everything they do is dope. So like, I think when he was starting it, he heard some quote that was like, isn't it sad that charity is marketed with less, less like, um, less like, um, less design and style than, you know, the 73rd brand of toothpaste. It's like, yeah, it's like true. It's like, you know, like a crest or like, you know, whatever. Right. Aqua, whatever it's called, aqua fresh.

You know, like the, they put more design and marketing and energy into like how that looks and feels and the colors and the typeface and all that than a charity that saving children would put into their brand. So he decided early on, all right, I'm going to build an epic charity brand because I think it's going to matter. I think people are going to donate more if we come across, if we do better marketing. Like we can't just like say that that's only for rich companies and we're this poor nonprofit that always has to look crappy.

And so he does. He is a photographer. So he takes epic photos. They put on epic events. So at their events, if you ever go to one of their events, it just flows. It's just nice. Like every everything just feels good. He was a former club promoter.

So he gets it. And he goes, my, I go, I go, dude, what is it about your events? I was like, because you have the big spectacle. Like at any event, like every time he does an event, trust. to up it from the year before. So there's always like this like spectacle where it's like there's 10,000 screens and on every screen is one person from one village that we are going to fund tonight. It's like, okay, that's the spectacle.

And that's always cool. But I was like, dude, it's the other stuff that like, I don't know why. It just feels different. What is it? He goes, my wife, Victoria, she's the brains behind this. She has a phrase for this. She goes, all the magic is in the moments between the moments. I go, what?

She goes, it's the moments between the moments. And I was like, what's that mean? He goes, yeah, we have the big spectacle. We have the screens. We have the thing when we hit our donation goal. There's going to be the big like fireworks or whatever for doing the moment. That's the moment. So the difference between us and everybody else is that we also care about the moments between the moments.

What's it going to be like in between those moments? Everybody else only puts their energy to those. We focus on the moments between the moments. And I just started, I was like, I still don't really understand how to use this. But it became this like kind of mantra. So anytime I really want to pull something off like today's Valentine's Day, I'm trying to pull something off. it's like, what are the moments between the moments that I could just level up here

because that's where to the other person, they're like, oh, you didn't have to do that. Like, this took extra care to like to think about, you know, the walkway between the two rooms and not just what's in the two rooms. Now that I'm a hotelier, I'm reading the biography of the guy who started the four seasons. And he talks about,

he started it in the 60s. And he was like, before then, like, people didn't necessarily have like the fanciest mattresses. So we went and just got the best mattresses. that money could buy or like you couldn't get your um shoes cleaned at a hotel and so we just hired a guy to clean shoes or um the showers weren't necessarily good so our showers were just almost as good as every other shower but we just got the best shower heads and he was like oh we just focused on all these really tiny things and it added up and made it amazing right do do uh have you

read this the the main guy for hospitality there's like the shake shack guy I think he's written one Danny Meyer his book's called setting the table yeah I read it's awesome and then there's that guy Chip. You know this guy, Chip? Have you heard of this guy? Chip Conley. Yeah, he had a hotel business. Is it called Hotel Zephyr? I think so. Phoenix. I think that's one of his hotel. That's like the specific hotel. His group is called something else.

He has a couple of like a bunch of boutique hotels. Chip Conley. Yeah. Yeah. He worked at Airbnb for a long time. Right. That's right. I think he was like the advisor, key advisor, special advisor to like the founders of Airbnb.

So in in Masters of Scale, did you ever listen to the Master of Scale episode about Airbnb about the five star experience thing? Oh yeah. Go ahead. Tell it. So you should do this for your Airbnb. So I do this for all my startups. I'll do this at one point in time for everybody. It's an amazing framework.

So founder of Airbnb, Brian Chesky goes on and they're talking about like, okay, what made Airbnb special? He goes, okay, we do this exercise. I think he calls it the 12-star experience. So he goes, all right. He sat down with the team. He goes, okay, a guest is going to stay at an Airbnb, right? That's our product.

Our product is actually not the website where you book the thing. It's the experience you have when you go to the place. We all agree on that. Everyone's like, yeah, we all agree on that. Okay, cool. So what's a one-star experience with the Airbnb? It's like, oh, I booked the place and my card gets charged twice for no reason. Now I got to go contact support.

And then I never get a message from the guy, so I'm uncertain when I get there about how I'm going to get in. And then I get there and it looks nothing like the photos and there's cockroaches everywhere. And the bed is, you know, the sheets are dirty. Whatever? That's a one-star experience. Okay, cool. What's a three-star experience? So they define a three-star experience.

It's like all those little moments, but they're a little bit better. And he's like, all right, what's a five-star experience? And this is where the team, the first time they do this exercise, the team's like, all right, five-star experience is like, you know, super easy to book on the website. You get there and the keys are in the lockbox and it just opens up. And, you know, it looks just like the photos and you're feeling good. And the host leaves you kind of like a bottle of wine on the table or like, you know,

some chocolate on your pillow. Let's put it that way. He's like, okay, great. That's a five-star experience. I was like, yeah, that's five-star experience. They're ready to, like, leave the table. meeting. Great. We defined it. He goes, cool, what's a six-star experience? And they're like, oh, fuck, Brian. What do you want us to say? They're like, okay, instead of mint, you know,

chocolate on your pillow, there's a bottle of wine. He's like, all right, what's a seven-star experience? And they're like, all right, seven-star experience, you know, they pick me up from the airport. They're standing there with a name on my name on the sign and they, I don't have to go figure out the Uber in the city. They drive me home. And then they, you know, on the way out, they hand me, you know, a little cheat sheet of cool stuff in the neighborhood that I can go check out. He like keeps pushing the envelope. He's like, what's a 12 star experience? And he forces them to think through what the most magical experience could be using their product. And he's like, okay, cool. Now we know what's possible. Now we know in the extreme scenario, like we took the ceiling

from here, we blew the roof off. And now we can go here, right? We took the knob. We turned it to 10 and then we said, no, we want the volume to go higher. And now we can take the volume up to 15. And sure, we're not going to be able to deliver that every time. But if we hadn't even thought about it. Like we couldn't ever dream of translating any element of that into our, into our experience. And at the company, there was a time pre-COVID when they didn't have, you know, when COVID happened, like things change and like we got to survive just like most businesses. But prior to that, for a long time, Brian had been tinkering with building an airline. And the reason being is the 12-star experience is basically, well, like, what if we flew you there?

And, you know, the moment you booked, we picked you up and you were on our flight and, you know, a perfect 12 star would be like, it's your own plane, this and that. And they were even tinkering with either opening an airline or offering flights. Right. And that's an example. That example didn't come to fruition because a bunch of stuff. But that's an example of like, man, that actually could have been a reality from that exercise. But other things did. So for example, the Airbnb, what was called?

Experiences. Experiences. Where, okay, you get to the city. Now what? Well, my stay is not just the house. I mean, it's what I do outside of that house. Well, cool, wouldn't it be awesome if we could take you on a wine tasting thing? That could just be part of what was already booked for you.

It just turned out to be amazing. It's like a local person guiding you through this thing, not just this corporate, you know, you know, tour bus, but like somebody who really actually like works at the winery who just does this in their spare time. Wouldn't that be an amazing experience? And that actually became a part of the product. And, you know, what if the photos weren't so crummy, right? So like all these things they, they like put effort into.

doing them. To me, that's how you translate the moments between the moments thing into real life. So whenever I do this with our companies, it's like, cool. So what would be a great experience? Oh, you get the product and it works. Okay, what's a, what's a six star experience? Well, the packaging, actually, our packaging kind of is weird. It's like hard to open. It'd be also if this just was easy to open. I didn't have to go get the scissors and fumble with this. Oh, yeah. Okay. What else? Well, it'd be cool. If it's not inside every package, they also was this other little thing. That would be awesome, right? And then like, what if the first? founder followed up with like, you know, like, hey, how was it two days later? And they, you know,

they actually cared what I thought. Okay, what else? And so this like this exercise of take your team through one star, three star, five star, seven star, nine star, star, 12 star experience is like, it works in any business, not just hospitality. Yeah. I remember hearing this story years ago. I think this, he did this in like 2014 or 15 and it's always stuck with me. Yeah. Can let me tell you about a company that I think, I think I think I could. could start one of these and I think I could I can knock it out the park. So there's this company that I've always talked about well actually no I'm going to tell you about that in a second. I want to tell you about one other thing. There's this guy named Sam Ovens. Do you know Sam Ovens? Is this

the very like slick back hair guy? Yeah. What's his thing? Consulting.com? So he all right. So this guy named Sam Ovens he rubbed me the wrong way for a long time and looking back I think I was actually wrong and he seemed like an alright guy. So he had this website called Consulting.com, which if I had to put it at its worst, it was basically a course that was like $2,000 to $10,000 that taught you how to start a business. At best, it's like it's an accelerator. And the reality is it just like is a way to like, it's like a community and a course on starting a company. And he scaled it to like 30 million in revenue.

And it was just him and he hired all these people and built this office in New York. and he was posting on social that they're doing 50 or 60 million in revenue. And then he vanished. And he had a YouTube video come out today that says, and he just says, I'm back. He's like, for the past two years, I hated life. We scaled too quickly. And so we were spending like 50K a day on Facebook ads. And we weren't even making that much profit.

So I decided to change everything. And over the last two years, we've crushed it. He goes, for example, in January, this course, he goes, we got rid of like, there was three courses. Now we only sell two or one. And last month, in January, we, we, made $800,000 in revenue and our expenses, which includes payroll and paid ads, was $60,000. And so basically, this guy, and then he launched this new company called School, which is basically

like a Facebook group's alternative because when he was launching courses, he was like, he stink. So that is a different story. That's actually cool. But this course business, this guy has now, basically, let's just times it by 10. So $8 million in revenue with $600,000 in expenses. Is that nutty or what? Is that crazy? Yeah, but it depends. Is that sustainable? And also is that going to grow? So for example, I don't think it's going to grow, but I think it's going to be sustainable. When I did the like all access pass, it was like I was making whatever 50K a month off of the newsletter, I paid newsletter making 50K a month.

What were my expenses? It was like, you know, $300 a month for convert kit, you know, like a VA for $500 a month, whatever. It said, look nutty. But like, that's because I had an audience. So I could just sell into that. If I wanted to grow it, I would have had to like, you know, my expenses would have had to have gone way up, right? You know, like, so it depends where, yeah, maybe his ad spend is really low now. Is that because his ads are ultra efficient or is because he had a long, a big list that he no, they said that they don't, they don't spend ads anymore, but previously they had spent millions and tens of millions of dollars of ads.

So the website definitely already has. Yeah. Traffic. Traffic. Yeah. So, yes, it's not like, I talked to somebody who worked there, um, pretty early on. So I was like, is this guy legit? They go, he's legit.

He's good. Um, they're like he. He lived in New Zealand or something like that. He's a digital marketer. Then he has Consulting.com, which is basically like they had a course. They had a consulting accelerator. And they're basically teaching people how to start their own business, their own consulting business.

And they told me at the time that there was like $10 million of free cash flow a year. And they said that it was about $30 million or something in revenue. And they said like half of that. So like $15, $16 million was coming from one product, which was a $2,000 or $3,000 course about how to start your own consulting business. And then from there, they upsell you into the $5,000 course about how to create a course. And then once you get to $500,000 in consulting revenue, then you get to join a mastermind that will help you get to a million dollars plus.

And that'll cost you $25 or $50,000 or something like that. And so that was their, you know, that was their model. But, you know, half of it was coming from that kind of like entry level to $3,000 course where they like kind of sell you, close you on the phone to like get you to buy the course, which is. Yeah, I went through the funnel. to like, so I got him to sell me online or to do the phone call. And I was like, I want to figure this out.

And it's pretty good, man. And I gave the guy a hard time because he's just kind of weird. He just comes off serial kill. He's kind of Patrick Bateman. He's kind of like the Patrick Bateman of our friend Jack Smith, like the American Psycho version of our friend Jack Smith. And so he's like just like a little off. But that's actually really incorrect of me to say because I don't,

I think he's just an odd ball. which is totally acceptable. I don't know the guy. Yeah, and I don't know him. And I think that my judgment is just totally wrong. I think he's an all right guy. You're like, I think it's wrong because it's all based on his haircut.

No, I watched a lot of this guy's videos and I was like, something is off here. And he was, he was aggressively selling, it was the type of guy where he was selling like a private jet, like a video on a private jet. Right.

So that's not wrong, but it's, it's, you know, your cousins with wrong. And so I think that it was just kind of odd. But I thought that was interesting. I thought you get a kick out of that.

All right. But the second thing, so go to Google Boardroom Insiders. Okay. So this company was just bought the other day for $25 million. And it was bought by this company called Euro Money. And so basically what it does is Boardroom Insiders provides executives with help on,

it helps them with their sales marketing and recruiting teams if your audience is a C-suite executive. Basically, it's just a database that lists all the executives. you can think of. And for a bunch of big, powerful ones, it has in-depth profiles on them, and it helps you map out who they know and you can, like, follow an executive

and it can tell you like, oh, this person recently changed jobs. And they claim that none of their information comes from scraping. I don't buy that, but it could be true. And they also, they say that based, so let's just assume that's not true, and then we'll assume it is true in a second.

But assuming that's not true, that means they get all of their data from basically these editors who are just scraping the web, not scraping, but like monitoring the web and manually creating this database of tens of thousands of executives and then selling it for tens of thousands of dollars. And I think that's pretty amazing. And I think that's interesting because there's this company called Pitchbook that did something similar to this. And what Pitchbook did, Pitchbook is owned by a publicly traded company. They do like 200 million in revenue, which means they're probably worth well over a billion at this point. And what they did was they hired these

huge teams of people in the Philippines. And it would basically call VCs and ask them, if they invested in this particular company. And then they would create a list of like, all right, here's, we triangulated this to this company, raised this much money at this valuation from these five people. These five people also invested in these things, these things, these things, these things. These 18 companies are growing at this rate based off their headcount growth on LinkedIn.

These fascinating databases. Is this interesting? Yeah, I always like kind of, I kind of admire a product like this. I put this into beautiful businesses category. Why? Because what's the product? the product is data.

You sell it digitally. You collect it through either automated scraping or outsourced, you know, kind of phone sales scripts. You get every, every bit of data you add in makes your whole data set more valuable. And you could sell this thing for a very high price because the people who need it, right, like Border Insiders, for example, who needs it? It's who needs access to the profiles of executives at companies?

It's like, you know, executive recruiters, they are willing to pay because they make a ton of money when they place a CMO at a company. It's executive sales or executive marketing. And so it's like people who have big budgets who spend a lot of money and they don't have the time to like go figure this out themselves. They'd rather click a button and get the get the list. And so, um, so yeah, while I don't think these are the most fun and exciting business to build or like not like that good for the world, you know, uh, I don't like admire them for those reasons. I think they can be if you, if you cared about it. I think if I think there's a and there's not like I I'm fairly passionate about the pitch book a version.

Crunchbase is also a cool version that I'm like, oh, that's actually pretty sick. I think there's a world where it could be cooler. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. It doesn't look like they have kind of like a lot of stuff on the person. So it's like, you know, I'm on one. So this is Doug Yume. He's the head of retail business.

They have like sample profiles on their site. He's the head of retail business at Amazon. Okay. Personal interests are golf and Greek letter organizations. Brats, I don't know. I don't know what that's about. And that's like, here's a story. summary. He did this. Before that, he was working on this. Before that, he was working on this.

It's like a resume. Doug legs golf and boofing. Let's go hire him. And then it was like, hey, he was born in South Korea, grew up in Kentucky. It's like, yeah, if you want to build rapport real quick, it's like, here's his wife's, you know, hey, how's the wife? How's, I was young, young, young, you know, how's, uh, you know, what, here's what he's what he's focused on. Or he's bullish on retail business because on the Q3 earnings call, they said, we're bullish on retail business. It's like, okay. Some of this is kind of like,

who's typing this in here? But some of this can be useful. I could see why this is. Have you seen on the office, Michael takes notes on all of his clients and he's trying to teach Dwight how to do it. Yeah, and he goes,

and Dwight gets to note. He goes, hello, Mr. Smith. How is Greg, 14-year-old homosexual son? How is your gay son? Yeah. He's like, it was written in green. He's like, it was on green. He's like, and Michael,

he comes to my guy. He's like, green means go. I said, do not go. there. That's what this reminds me of. Oh my God. That's great. Yeah.

So, all right. So this is a cool little website. That's it. Can I tell you something interesting I saw? So the 0.01% rule. So Nathan Barry came on the pod and he was cool. So he's the founder of ConvertKit. He came on.

He was telling us about some blog post. either he's written or the others have written that he liked. So I went back and I read one of them. And I saw this thing called a 0.01% rule. Have you seen this? No. Okay, so I'll put it. But he's pretty amazing.

I'm going to pull up this, where's the blog? 0.01% rule, wealth. Let me see if I can pull it up here. Okay, I'm not going to be able to find it real quick here, but I'll put the link in, Ben, if you can find it, or search Nathan Barry, wealth ladder, 0.01%. So basically, the way the guy's thinking, he's like, he's like, you know, he's like, he talks about price sensitivity.

And he's sort of like, you know, as you get more rich, you, you know, the way you think about money should change, right? This is like when I came to your house and you had like CVS receipts in the glove compartment because you were like saving him for like the $3 thing. And you're like, hell yeah. And I was like, dude, you just sold your company for like many, many millions of dollars. What are you doing with these CVS receipts? You're like, ah, I just like to do it. That's a habit. And so this guy talks about like, the richer you get, you should sort of, he's like, he's like, this works for when you sell something to somebody or yourself as you get to that level.

Basically below 0.01% of your net worth. So that's, you take your net worth and you multiply by 0.000 whatever, you know, one. So it's like 0.01% of your net worth. So let's say you're worth. Let's do 100 million. So 100 million. What is it times what? Use 5 billion, right? They'll use a little bit more of an approachable number here. So that would be $500. If you have $5 million a net worth, $500 is the threshold below which you don't really feel it. You don't really care or feel it. You get become a little bit of price insensitive below that point.

So that might be like, you know, opting for the nicer hotel or like you just really don't give a shit. You can just ball out at a restaurant. You really don't care. And so he draws this little curve and he's like at the first level of wealth, it's like, he calls it like level zero level one of wealth where it's like you know your point oh one is like a hundred dollars or less than a hundred dollars at that point well a million dollars yeah a million dollars would be a hundred bucks yeah so he's like you know at that point like you know if you're at the grocery store it something costs an extra dollar like you care you don't want to buy the eggs

that cost a dollar 99 more you care he's like then the next level the next jump up is you're like well, I don't care at like, you know, the way he draws the chart. It's like, what are restaurant prices? Then the next one is like, what are vacation prices? It's like, you don't even really care about how much your vacations cost. The next one is like, you know, you could fly first class. And then the final one is like, you know, the next one is like you can buy a crazy house. So, you know, you don't really get, you're not really feeling house prices as much.

And then the final one is like, you know, what are prices anyway? It's like, you know, this is when you're worth over $100 million dollars. Like at that point, most things don't cost anything to you. and you're pretty insensitive to the cost of it. So I'm just sort of summarizing the idea. The exact, you know, you can quibble about what you should or shouldn't care about. But I thought it was kind of an interesting number. And the reason I bring it up is very few people that I know are like properly price sensitive.

So there's a lot of people I know, like my dad, who no matter how wealthy they've got, like the sort of like the trauma of not having money is so deeply ingrained in his body that like, you know, Starbucks, he's just like, he's like pissed off when they charge. Even if he buys the coffee, like he's angry at the price. He's like, oh my God, $4.99. Like I could make this for so much less. And they're like, sir, you're welcome to do that. And he's like, oh, like, what's going on?

And, you know, he's anchored to prices from like the 80s when like, you know, that's where like he thought movie tickets should cost X. And also, you know, it just like hurts him to spend more than some amount, regardless of what's in his bank account. And so he's kind of on one side of the spectrum, too cheap. And then there's another side spectrum, which is more where I am, where it's like, dude, you should really kind of like pay attention to this. You're kind of spending like pretty crazy and, you know, completely price insensitive is on the other side. And then there's like whatever the sweet spot is.

And then school that don't really teach you how to, how to like gauge that. Or what those kind of like, what even should be a good number for this? What should I spend on things? So you don't get nervous? Like I freak out a little because as an entrepreneur, like some years I just like knock it out the park and make so much money. other years I make nothing. I mean, hopefully I don't think nothing will ever happen again, but like there's times, you don't get nervous about running out?

No, actually, like, two months ago, I was like, oh my God, I have like no cash left, no cash on hand left. I was investing in everything I saw. I was putting money into startups, into crypto, into stuff. Then I was spending a bunch, like my payroll expanded. And I was like, oh, my God, I have like so little cash in that. I thought that way, too. It was under.

I had 60 grand in cash. And I was like, I feel low. Yeah, I think it was like 38,000 was in my like, whatever, Wells Fargo checking account. I was like, where'd all the money go? This was like, well, and I was like, well, yeah, I guess. And I looked at the like outgoing thing. And it was like, it's not that my spending had gone up. I was really just investing a lot of money.

But I was like, wow, I should, I need to manage cash. Most of the time for me, it's like, I need to send my invoices for like things. You know, like, I was like, all right, I'm going to teach a course and I'm going to invoice, you know, for the podcast. And I'm going to like do the things that bring in like cash today. versus most of the things I invest my money into are like long-term illiquid things or my own businesses, right?

Like maybe I should take a withdrawal out of my business and put money in my banking account. And so, you know, it was just like a reminder of that. But no, I don't really get too worried about that. And maybe, you know, again, I think I'm too far on the dial of like willing to spend on whatever. Ramit Seathy,

this is pretty much what his entire, not course, but his entire image, content is about, which is like, he's got this podcast where two people, couples argue, like we have, we're worth $3 million and he got into a fight with me because I spent $80 on this silly thing. And it remit's all about that. It's, I have, I'm more like your father than I am like you. Like, and I think it's just rooted. It's, it's rooted in like trauma, like, just fear. I've got the same thing

where it's like it bothers me so much like for example commenter coffee they sent me some for free it's so good but it's a dollar 50 per cup and compare that to like your bean coffee

I'm like $1.50 sometimes I don't even drink the whole thing and so like I've been really struggling with like is that worth it? Is this worth it? Or the back splash on my sink in my kitchen and we need to replace it and it's $800.

And I've been fretting over it for over a year now. I'm like, ugh, $800 to replace that. So even though it will add value to the home and also make me happier, I understand why your dad thinks that way. It's really, I think it's challenging when you're, it's like, it's like, you know, it's proper trauma, I think, of like you felt one way for years and now you suddenly, like, things are different. Yeah, maybe we actually need money therapy, money therapy specifically.

I think that's actually a good idea. I hear. So therapy is this broad thing that has like a bunch of associations with it and mostly is like stigmas and blah blah blah. I think somebody needs to spin off and Rameet sounds like he's kind of doing this, which is straight up financial therapy. And it's like, yeah, I have a money coach or you know, you probably need to switching therapy to coach is the hack to like, oh, I'm focusing on performance and not like, you know,

fixing a broken part of me. But in reality, it's that. I tried finding people like this. And when I met them, I was like, look, we're just getting to know each other. Not a financial advisor.

Different thing. No, I know. I would go to therapy for a lot. And I would, and I would go, whenever I was trying out a new therapist, I'd be like,

so I'm not going to like, I'm not trying to sound like a douche or big headed, but like, I'm a high achiever. Like, I want to like conquer the world. They're like, do cool shit.

And so I'm not what to talk. Like, this is, this is the, the place that I'm coming from. Like, I'm high octane, baby.

Can we make this happen? Do you have the tools necessary or no? Or do you like specialize just in like, you know, like traditional. What were you really trying to tell her? You were trying to tell her that my problems are not, like, I'm not broken. I'm trying to like just achieve a higher level of success. Or were you trying to tell her like, I'm an A player. Are you an A player therapist?

Is that what you were trying to ask her? What were you trying to ask him? No, the blunt way to explain it is I've got rich. I'm complaining about some rich people problems. Okay, got. And like, I'm just like mostly just insecure about. certain things and I want to like use that to like conquer the world. I'm not verified on Twitter.

Yeah. And like I'm going to complain about stuff that sounds super weak because like on outside like everything's going great. But I need you to like empathize that like I'm trying to like go places. And I don't need you to tell me that like, well, you made a million dollars that last year. Isn't that good enough? Like no, dog. That's not.

Like I need you to understand like what's that stake here. You know what I mean? And Sam, what is that stake here? that's like you're better than they ever. I'm going to be your money therapist. But you know what I mean? Totally. So like I would be people and I'm like,

oh, you've only worked with like a certain type of person. You have like, I don't think you understand. I don't think you'll be able to help me. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I know what you mean. It's the reason Tony Robbins gets paid a million dollars plus per client because it's like his clients are Serena Williams and Ray Dalio and, you know, or whoever. And he's like crazy rich. Yeah. And he himself is successful and his other clients are, you know, objectively very successful, but everybody,

everybody, you know, can improve the, you know, the little voice in their head. Dude, while we're on the random, random topics, did you watch the Tinder or Slyndler? No, but I saw your picture with it. So what's the, what's the, like, the... Okay, so you guys don't, okay, so here's, here's what happened. It's kind of an amazing thing.

There's a guy, so the document, it's a documentary about this guy who goes on Tinder. And his Tinder profile looks like, you know, he's kind of like a normalish-looking guy, but he's like clearly living a cool lifestyle, like lots of travel, in different climates, kind of wearing very nice clothes. That's his profile. All right. So girls swipe right on him and they start chat with him.

And he basically, what he ended up doing was he ended up conning women out of money. And it was like a Ponzi scheme. So what he would do is he would meet a woman on Tinder, take her out on a date, kind of wine and diner, make it look like he's this baller of a guy. And he, you know, it's just like a prince out of a fairy tale. He just loves her, the average looking girl who's an average job just from an average city.

And then all of a sudden he's like, come on my private jet and come do this with me and they go together. And she's like, oh my God, it's all happening. I am that princess that he picked and he cares for. And so he starts talking to him. And his backstory is that he,

his dad owns a diamond company. and he's a son of a billionaire. And if you Google, you see that this guy's a son of a billionaire. So he kind of like had created this profile around that. And then, you know, sure enough, a month in, he's like, hey, you know, like, he's like, oh, you know, he sends a picture of his bodyguard.

He's always with a bodyguard. He's like, my bodyguard got attacked. Oh, my God. And she's like, oh, my God. Is he okay? He's like, yeah, but, you know, they're telling me, I can't use my credit cards anymore because they're tracking my location. You know, like these are our enemies for our company.

The diamond business is a Ruth. business and he's like can I borrow your credit card for the time being while I you know because I can't use mine yet and she's like okay and he's like cool just make sure you get your limits raised because like I have business meetings and all this stuff so these women end up going like 150, $200,000 in debt as he racks up credit card debt then he's like hey go get a quick loan and send me the money I need it because you know my enemies are after me and he's like my enemies are after me And so the documentaries, the first half of the documentaries is women talking about how they fell in love. And the second half is like how they got conned, basically.

And he's like a Ponzi scheme. So he'd fallen in love with one woman or he'd get them to fall in love with him, get them to start giving him money at credit cards. He'd be using that to whine and dying the next woman. And then he would be doing this with multiple women at once telling them all the same things. And then he was living this like extravagant lifestyle on all these women's dime. And then, you know, so that's, that's. Okay, that's the core of the movie. Quick reaction to that.

Then I'm going to tell you some other stuff. Well, what happened to him? So how does this end? It ends with, he gets exposed. So the women are like, oh, my God, you know, they go to the credit card company. They're like, look, I have to be honest. Like my kind of boyfriend, you know, or I don't know what's going on. This is the guy.

He's tricking me. And like, he's there like, can we see a picture of the guy? And she shows a picture on her phone. And the two like agents from like Amex or whatever, just look at each other. Like, it's him. And then she's like, what? It's like, we've been after this guy for years. He does this with tons of women.

They're like, there's other women. He's doing this too. And so it's like they feel cheated on plus conned. And so he, but technically what happens is, is he breaking the law? He's not breaking the law. They are giving him money. They're sending him money willingly. And they are, you know, they're giving him their credit card.

And they're calling the credit card company and saying, no, no, it's me. Can you please raise my limits? Yes, I'm traveling. I'm in, I'm in a visa right now. And so they're like, you know, you're in a kind of a sticky spot. You can't really say he's stolen. you clearly gave it to him. In fact, you kind of committed fraud, but like, well, whatever, we'll leave that aside.

But like, yeah, you do owe this money. Like, this is not, this is not, you know, a stolen credit card. And so anyways, he ends up getting a 15-month sentence for not even for this. It's for like something else that he did, like associated with this. He serves five months. He gets off free. He's out there living. He's got a new model girlfriend.

He lives somewhere else. The girls kind of like, exposed him in the press because they were like, okay, look, law enforcement is not doing anything or it's going to take too long. He's going to keep doing this in the meantime. So they go to the Norwegian press where they're from and they, they kind of like expose it. The Netflix turns it into a documentary.

And so the guy's still out there. And one of the things in the movie is he goes to a plastic surgeon and he's like, I want my eyes, cheekbones, chin, mouth, all restructured. And the guy's like, I'm not going to do this. Only a criminal would want this surgery. And so he's like trying to change his face so he could keep it going. but he can't change his face. And now he's like,

you know, kind of like public enemy number one. But a lot of people who watch this are like, dude, these girls are stupid. Yeah, you were just with him for the money and then he can't do for the money.

You got what you deserve. So the girls are getting a ton of flack for it. Oh, that's crazy. That's, that's dumb. But I was just thinking, what a waste of talent by this guy.

Yeah, like that's pretty amazing. All this energy. It's like a, you know what's funny is like Leonardo DeCaprio played the same character and catch me if you can. And it was awesome.

Yeah, he's became like a hero. When I see this guy, I want to punch him in the face. Yeah, exactly. That was the problem. It was a documentary instead of a movie about the con man itself where you started fall in love with this smooth guy. Yeah, if a different, if like a lovable, if like, if like Matt Damon played him, I would be all about it.

Yeah, you got to watch the thing. It's super punchable face, this guy. Yeah. And the memes are just amazing around. Well, I saw the meme with you with your face on it. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, hey, Photoshop my head onto this photo where it looks like I'm with the guy. And I just tweeted out like, oh, I'm with my sister's new boyfriend.

Is he American? No, this guy is Israeli. Dude, screw this guy, man. I'm happy they made a documentary about him. How did he get all the, so he's in a private jet in a bunch of these pictures. How did he get that? Because he's using the previous woman's money to fund his lifestyle. So he would fly private.

Yeah, yeah. So he's actually flying private. I don't know if all the time, but at least some of the time. And it was just really wild. In fact, a lot of the numbers don't make sense. He must have been running this on like tons of women at once to fund this lifestyle. Because these, like the jets and the stuff that he was doing, like, okay, he would con this woman out of 80 grand.

But 80 grand it funds like one month of this lifestyle, you know, like that's not very long. So he must have had a lot of people at the same time or the documentary is a little inaccurate. I don't know. How much money did he get? They said that he had conned women out of millions of dollars over, over time. They didn't say exactly how much. They don't know how much of it was there. But I just feel like he did this all wrong.

Like if you're going to do all this effort, you got to be more intelligent, right? Like, okay, what could he have done? Could have just married rich. Could it just seemed rich, married rich, divorced and took half, right? Like that would have worked. Way, way, you know, put more wood behind fewer arrows here. And he could have just gone one very wealthy person if he really wanted to do this. That's my first critique of him.

My second critique of him is Bro, all this money to just party Parting's exhausting Like he just wanted to fly private And go to these clubs and do table service Like, you know You couldn't pay me to do that You gotta diversify your assets dog

Yeah, he should have Own some crypto Like buy something, buy a home Do something with this money You just blew all the money on overpriced You know like bottle service at the club Like wow All right, that's critique number two.

Number three, go B to B, bro. Corporate swindling. Would have worked way better. So, you know, he could have been, like, you heard about the guy who just started sending invoices to Microsoft and Apple and stuff. It just got paid like millions of dollars. He was just sending an invoice to accounts payable or whatever.

And then they would just pay some of the invoices. Did what he just do? Like AP at Microsoft.com? Yeah, and he was like, hey, you know, this is for the blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they went back and they were like, what the hell is this? Who is this vendor that we paid $1.1 million to this year?

Like, nobody knows who this is. I don't think that's illegal either. I think it is because he was like, you know, whatever, they were going back after them. You know, these companies have a lot of money. So that's the downside of going B2B. I feel like there could have been a B2B way of doing this. Should have actually just started a diamond company.

Could have made a lot more money. If you're this good at getting women's emotions tied up in your lifestyle, just actually sell the deal. diamonds. It would have worked. Use their money to fund a diamond company that actually could have worked. This guy needs to be in the Facebook ad manager instead of Tinder. That's my critique of this guy. I'm looking at him now.

All those, these women who he's scammed, like a lot of them look like models. Like he was killing it. Also, like, you forgot the other option, which is like, just marry one of these ladies. If they're rich enough to, like, if they're these beautiful women who could wire them 200K, like, I don't know, man. Bro, maybe got a keeper. Well, in this case, he's, like, he's, like, in this case, he's, like he was telling him, like, go take like a kind of like a collateralized loan or a payday loan and like super high interest. He's like, I'm going to wire your money back in four days.

And then he would like not wire them back. And then they'd be like, hey, just you wire the money? He's like, oh, sorry. They are like, the bank was closed. Okay. And then he would like, show them a statement. He'd be like, I sent it. Should arrive in a couple days.

She's like, hey, it hasn't arrived yet. What's going on? Like, the interest is building up on this like flash loan you had me take. He's like, oh my God, let me call the bank. Another two days go by. He's like, called the bank. They said this thing got frozen. I got to deal with this.

I'm so sorry. Here, you know, I'm going to send you one of my watches. In the meantime, you can just sell it. This watch is worth $100,000. Sends up a fake watch. And you would just buy time doing that. It's like, these women didn't have the money. But like, I think he could have totally gone for a richer woman.

And then been like, you know what, baby? Like, I love you. I'm not going to make you sign a pre-up. You know me. I'm a billionaire. I come from this lineage. But I'm not, my dad says sign a pre-up. I'm not going to do it.

And then she would feel a little bit of pressure. It would be like, okay, I guess I can't. really asking for a pen-up anyways. This guy's richer than me. All right. I guess I also won't. That would have been a more effective con. If this guy were in jail, do you think he'd be popular or hated?

I think popular, sadly. You think popular? I think popular. I could see this going either way, man. I could see this going either way. I think like, would he get beat up in prison? Would he like, all right. So Bernie Madoff I heard in prison was like a god, which I get.

I get that, you know? Like he could teach people how to like corner like the chocolate chip or the chocolate hot chocolate. market, like, in prison. Like, he could, like, you know, or he could, like, dominate the commissary and he could, like, teach you about markets. I get that.

And also, it wasn't a violent crime. So no children or women would hurt. But this guy, is he, I would see this guy being unpopped. I don't know. That's a good question. He's got kind of like a douchebag or a to him. So that's the problem.

That's where he's going to get in trouble. But, uh, well, the swindler, the swindler would do well in prison. This is a good documentary. I guess I'll watch it. How many episodes was it? He's not in prison. He's out and about. He's, he's,

He's living a nice life right now. Oh, screw this guy, man. And he sold a couple million dollars. Yeah. I think about, I think this documentary is good punishment, though. That's fair. I'm okay with you not serving time and you have this documentary about you. Our buddy Jack Butcher pointed something out that I was like, oh, wait a minute.

That's true. He's like, yo, Netflix is going to make a lot of money off this documentary. Pay off these women's debts. They have like a GoFundMe going. It's like, yo, Netflix, you need to pay off this woman's $200,000 debt. That's true. You did well on this documentary. So that's the real call out here.

Netflix cancel Netflix if they don't pay off these women's debts. That's a no-brainer. You don't think they're going to? Well, nobody said anything. These women are doing interviews everywhere. There's a Go-fund me out there. I feel like they could have said, or they're just swindling people. One good thing that, you know, we didn't make a lot of money off this, but Netflix actually

generously did agree to pay off the debt, you know, blah, blah, blah. I feel like that story should have come out if they did it. If they didn't, then fire your PR person, Netflix, or pay off this, pay the, these debts. You have two choices. That's actually a great point. How many likes did that tweak it that Jack said? Probably not that many because now everyone's just looking at Jack for like NFT. Oh my God. All right. That's a good episode.