My First Million - From Nonprofit Founder To Building A $300M Pilates Business

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

Get next week's episode early, watch it right now: https://clickhubspot.com/mbe Episode 630: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) talks to Anne Mahlum ( https://www.instagram.com/annemahlum/ ) about starting an $8M/yr charity from scratch and betting her entire life savings ($175K) on a pilates studio.  — Show Notes:  (0:00) Building a $8M/yr non-profit  (16:27) The economics of [solidcore] (22:07) Play a game you can win (24:16) How to be a killer negotiator (27:00) Turning down $75k (30:39) 0 - 27 locations in 4 years (43:50) Idea: Endurance events (50:21) Idea: Taboo for recruiters (51:37) Idea: AI Personal trainer (56:45) Idea: SeatGeek for airlines — Links: • Back on My Feet - https://backonmyfeet.org/ • [solicore] - https://www.solidcore.co/ • 29029 - https://29029everesting.com/ • HYROX - https://hyrox.com/ • OxeFit - https://www.oxefit.com/ — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam’s List - http://samslist.co/ My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano

All right, everyone. Today's episode is Ann Malum and started this company called Solid Core. Solid Core is a Pilates studio where she bootstrapped it in the first year. She did something like a million and a half in revenue. It costs like $100,000 to start. And she eventually sold this company in year nine for something like $350 million. And she goes through this entire story. But if you're listening, I think the really amazing part is to copy some of her attributes because I get done listening to her. And I'm like, I need to step it up in terms of confidence or in terms of being passionate about

something. And in fact, there's like in minute 30, I honestly teared up hearing some of her stories. So check it out. And by the way, if you are interested in Ann, I'm going to give a plug for Money Wise this podcast I did with her where she went deep on her finances. So how much money she spends, how much money she made, everything. And because I liked her so much on that podcast, I wanted to come on here. So check it out. And I hope you guys enjoy this episode and let me know in the comments. Let's do a little background. So I think you had a normal job. but then started a nonprofit called Back on My Feet. Is that right?

Yeah. And what was the original idea? I don't know if you know much about how the homeless system works, but many of the shelters in the major cities, you can go live there for 30 days and then you get kicked out. They give you 30 days to get your crap together, which is not very much time for someone who isn't going through homelessness, to be honest, to sort of start over, go back in the city,

get back in the system. 95% of the folks we worked with were dealing with addiction on some level. So, you know, Sam, I know a little bit of your background, and I think I mentioned on our last conversation, my dad's an addict. And when you ask my dad, Mark, what was your addiction? And he'll kind of look at you and say everything because my dad doesn't understand moderation. You know, he had, unfortunately, instances with drugs and alcohol. He went into inpatient program before I was five, so I don't really remember this. But that seemed to do the trick.

He hasn't had a drink or used drugs in 37, eight years. Unfortunately, gambling then surfaced for my dad when I was a teenager and he struggled with that. And now my dad fishes. He fishes every day for hours a day. But you have to find someplace to put this thing. And I had felt like if you can master the drugs and alcohol, you know, and try to get away from the bad behaviors, having an addictive personality can actually be beneficial because when you get into something, you know, you are in it and you kind of obsess over it.

So running was this great alternative because there is no end. You can always do more. It's there for you. You only need a pair of shoes. It was a really great substitute for a lot of these guys who were still chasing the high. I don't know if you know this, but there's a correlation of people who work out who actually tend to drink more because you're chasing the dopamine. You're looking for these opportunities to get the elevated serotonin spikes. So that's why, you know, yeah, working out can be a great, a great option for people who are struggling with addiction.

Yeah, basically addictions, I mean, I don't know shit. I just, I know my situation, but addictions don't go away. They just get transfer. You know what I mean? And so our thought was, you know, we can really help to change the emotional identity and get them to like themselves, believe in themselves, put them in a positive support network, and turn them into somebody who is a runner and out. athlete, responsible, reliable, and then we can go advocate for them at jobs that need employees who have those types of characteristics. So Marriott became the largest employer of back on my feet, not because we were a charity, Sam, but because we actually had good candidates for them

who were so appreciative to have a job in a respectable place where they got benefits, paid pretty well, an opportunity for growth. By the way, what do you do? do like your first day. So you just quit your other job. It's a Monday. You just walked to the corner and be like, hey everyone. Or I guess the night before,

like meet me here tomorrow at 5.30. Like I don't know if you have running shoes or not, but like make sure you, you know what do you do like the first like five days? Yeah. So I was a little more organized than that. I knew I needed the shelter to, you know,

work with me and give me permission. So I emailed the, I found the director of the shelter online. I emailed him. He didn't email. me back. Took a little while for him to respond to me, but I kept badgering him. And, you know, he tries to think of the nicest way to tell me that, like, this isn't going to work. These guys have bigger problems. They're not, like, interested in running. And I was very persuasive. I'm like,

if you could please just meet me. Like, I literally have ran by this shelter for two years. I'm not a very religious person, even though the shelter was religious. But, like, I am being called to do this. please meet with me and let me explain to you why I feel so compelled. So he did. And Sam, the crazy thing was this shelter. That's such a great line, by the way.

I'm being called to do this. That's good. Yeah, but it's true. I mean, yeah, totally. But it's also a good,

like it's like a, that's like a great argument. Right. And so he met with me and this shelter, again, I didn't know anything about this shelter. It was called the Sunday breakfast rescue mission. But when people enter this shelter,

the guys have rules. And they are not supposed to have any, contact with women. Zero. They are there to, you know, no drugs, obviously no alcohol. They have a curfew. Every rule is no women. And this guy, Mr. McMillan, like, I owe a lot to him because he trusted me, believed in me, and was like, okay, I'm going to break our rules. I'm going to allow this woman to come in here and build relationships with these guys. And he's like, I'm not going to tell them, Ann, that there's some, you know, young woman who wants to come run with them. I'm going to let the the members of the shelter at the time,

ask them if they are interested in joining a running club. That's it. And if they say yes, I'll let you do it. And, you know, I'm like waiting and waiting and a couple weeks go by and I finally get a response that says, all right, I'm, here's the names, nine guys. These guys want to run. And I'm like, awesome, I need their shoe sizes.

So I go to a local running store. I get the shoes donated. Again, I can be very convincing. It's one of my superpowers. I get them to give me all new shoes. because I don't want to show up there in my new shoes. And then I give these guys, you know, crappy old used shoes because they're homeless. I just felt like that's going to say I'm better than you.

And I didn't want them to feel that way. So I got shoes, shirts, socks, shorts. And I went up there and met them. I got to meet them in the chapel for the first time. I introduced myself. And then I made them sign a contract. And it just said, if you're going to join the running club, you got to show up three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you have to be on time. You need to come with a positive

attitude, and you need to be willing to respect and support your teammates. And everybody, like, sat up straighter in their chair. They were waiting, at least what it felt like for me, they were waiting for someone to tell them they were capable of excellence and expecting, I didn't say to them, you know, just show up if you can. It must be tough living in here. Just, you know, do your best. If you're, please try not to be too late. It was like, these are the expectations. And if you can't agree to them, then don't join the club. And if you can't agree to them, once you do join, you know, you're going to get kicked off the team.

We have to adhere to principals. So everybody showed up day one. And we all ran a mile, like some of the guys cruised and got it done really quickly. And then there was George who took a while, like he was struggling. But we made a rule that day that nobody finished the run on their own. So everybody went back to get George and we all like brought him into the finish line together. And that like first day, it was like, okay, like this is the group. And all the media was there for day one.

Like I wanted to get the word out. Everybody had to come and see this for themselves. So the Philadelphia Enquirer, the Daily News, the local ABC, NBC, every. I mean, it was all of a sudden like this thing was everywhere. All right, guys. So listen up. We're doing something a little bit different here. So we had this guy named Mr. Ballin.

Mr. Ballin is one of my favorite people on Earth. If you have been on YouTube or TikTok, you probably know who Mr. Ballin is. So he has tens of millions of followers and he's built this massive business on it. He's probably the best storyteller I've ever heard of my life, to be honest. And he did this amazing podcast with us

that we're going to release soon. We're not releasing the episode right away, but we are going to give it to our true fans. And if you are one of those true fans and you do want this interview, we have a link below. So check it out. Click the link in the description below

and you can listen to it right away. Now, back to the show. Did people cover you because you're like a charismatic, like you got, I don't know if you had your hair like that, but like you look like a celebrity when you have your hair, like, you know, your short blood hair and you look dope and you're charismatic. Were they covering you because you were charismatic and awesome or because this idea was so novel? Like how do you, how does someone who's not as cool get all this type of press? Well, I think I'll give me this straight answer because this is, you know, probably no bullshit

podcast. The video and the media was like, here's this white lawn girl from North Dakota, putting herself in the middle of these homeless shelters, like running with all of these men. Like the camera, the story, everything about it was like, wait, what? They just kind of had to know the background. And then you add in the fact that my dad is an addict and I'm so drawn to these guys and I could never help my dad. And running helped me. So now I feel like I can help people who remind me of my dad.

you know, through this. And yeah, so I think it all just worked. And then once they got to, I mean, homelessness itself, right? People are like, wait, the people who are homeless are actually running. That alone made people make, make their brains be like, wait, what?

And then add in, you know, the young white girl from North Dakota, like, what's the connection here? So the media truly ate it up. And it was coming from such a pure place for me of like, I'm trying to heal myself from 10 years of nothing coming good from my dad's addictions and tearing apart my family. And now I get to use all that pain is fuel to help people. And, you know, meeting some of the guys in our program,

I really think about those first nine guys because the majority of them were charismatic and lovely. And like, you just can't help but root for them. So once the media started to talk to Mike and to George and to James and learn their stories and the fact that they're out there working hard, I mean, it's the ultimate underdog story. And volunteers started showing up. This group started to grow.

And it was like, I'm like, this is an opportunity. You know, Tony Robbins talks a lot about these windows that open. I'm like, this is my window. And I had just taken a job at Comcast. I was supposed to go work there in their government affairs department, six-figure job, like everything that my college degree, graduate degree, was setting me up for this Comcast opportunity was it. and I remember going, they asked me to go to a baseball game with a lot of like some senators and

people on the political sort of world were in town and Comcast was hosting them. And I went that night and I was like, I am so bored out of my mind. There's no way that I can go take this job. Like, all I want to be doing is hanging out with the back of my feet members. All I thinking about is like this organization and how I grow it in vision. And so I called them the day I was supposed to start. and I thanked them for the six weeks that they gave me from time off of my other nonprofit job before I was supposed to start. And I was like, I can't take this job. Like, I have found what I'm supposed to do with my life.

And I'm really sorry. I know it's the day before, but like I got to follow my gut on this. How old were you? I was 26, 26. 26. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm asking all adults in my life. I'm thinking of doing this.

Like, what do you think? And everybody's like, are you nuts? Like for your job? Like, you're going to run with people in homeless shelters for your job? And I'm like trying to explain the vision, you know, and nobody got it. You know, my mom thinks I'm like irresponsible. She's, you know, like, what are you thinking? My dad's concerned for my safety.

All my mentor boss people are like, Ann, you don't even have any savings. I had no money, nothing. What was the first year's revenue or however you? I'm sure I raised a million bucks in the first year. No shit, really. So you were a machine. Oh, yeah. And I would ask, I mean, I would ask anybody and everybody for money. And I knew who to ask Sam. I figured out that I had to find the executives who were runners in companies that could give. And so I would only meet, like Larry Solomon was my first. I had a huge article in runners world. It was awesome. But but I'll also send you that.

Larry lived in Philly. He was the CEO of one of Accentures of vertical businesses. He emailed me, amazing article, you know, rooting for you, blah, blah, blah. Well, I took one look at Larry's title. And I was like, can we please have coffee? I love to tell you more. Right. Seriously.

Larry is still a very good friend today. But he, we met and I was just like, I need your help. I want you to sit on the board. Larry had just become a runner. And I'm like, you know, I really want to build this thing. and I want to make it big and blah, blah, blah. So he came on board and Larry, like, Accenture, right? They had massive, Marriott was a client, Beanbo Bakeries, AT&T,

they had so many tentacles. And I'm just like, I just need you to introduce me. I will go in and close the deal, but I need you to introduce me to the big players so that they can write the check. And I don't waste weeks or months climbing the meeting with the marketing coordinator and then the marketing director. And they just keep passing me up the chain.

Like I'll never be able to raise money fast enough. So yeah, and every meeting I went to, I made a specific ask whether it was like, I need $20,450 and here's why. And I need you to pick me to three more people. And then I would also learn that I would, that like letting me come and speak at your corporate event or something, I was like, oh, that's, I did that one time. And I'm like, oh, this is really powerful. Like now I get the whole company, you know, excited about back on my feet because it was just

so innovative. So what's your pitch to me? Let's say I'm an executive. You know, I probably spend a few hundred grand a year giving it away to causes. I care about single moms. I care about animals. Homeless guys. I mean, I guess that's like kind of important, but like why should I like give a shit about you?

Well, for one, Sam, I would ask if you, you know, are you a runner? And hopefully you would say yes. I am. So you understand that, right? So if you're an executive of this. Perfect. So if you're an executive of this company, you understand how important culture is. and how important culture is for performance

and making sure your people feel appreciated and valued here. A lot of our members grew up in households and environments and neighbors where they didn't have that before. And I can tell you being out there firsthand with all of these guys, they are some of the hardest working individuals I have ever met before, but no one's given them a chance. And if you don't have respect for people who are out there at 5.30 in the morning trying to put their life on the right track

and doing the work and the effort, no one's running their miles for them. They are doing it on their own, and it's a pretty compelling site to see. And I can guarantee you, if you gave us a check, not only will, you know, the money go to helping these individuals with life, but we'll get your employees involved, you know, talk about a cause where, you know,

employees can get actually involved on the ground floor running with us. We do a skill set training, right, where we teach these guys about, into literacy, helping them train them for, you know, what their next opportunity could be. But I can tell you from all the other companies we work with, we have higher employee engagement with back on my feet than people have had in any other nonprofit that they work. You make me emotional because like on this podcast and in my life, I care about making money. You know, I care about businesses.

And we're going to talk about solid core and all the traditional success that you've had. it just seems, you know, like, I remember being in the hospital recently because I had like a kidney stone and I felt like I was dying. And this like Nigerian nurse was like taking care of me. And like in my head, I'm like, you probably have seen five of me today. And like you don't even make that much money, whatever. But like you're making my life so much better right now. Like you have, you're calming me down. And like you are making this stay the best as opposed to the doctor who makes way more money.

but like he's just in and out. And that's sort of kind of like how I feel when I talk about this nonprofit stuff, which is making rich people richer is kind of insignificant compared to giving someone a shot or like doing something that actually matters. And so did you get equal fulfillment pursuing solid core for the sake of like wealth creation versus what you were doing with back on my feet? I had a lot of fun building solid core. and I feel really good about how I've made my wealth over the last 10 years.

I mean, I get to make people's lives happier, healthier, and help people be more confident. And my team, you know, there are thousands of people who work at Silicon Corps, who love their job, who, you know, we pay people really well. I think we pay higher than any other fitness organization are coaches on a per class basis. There are coaches who make over $300 a class because we've always done a revenue share model. And I have just never believed, Sam, that it has to be a zero-sum game. Like, yeah, should I have made the most money? Sure, because I took all the risk, put all the money in. Like, I have no problem saying that.

Some people can disagree with me. That's fine. But do I think that my employees should have made zero? No, which is why I put a long-term incentive plan in place for them. a profit sharing plan when I sold the business and everybody got paid. Every full-time employee who had been with Silicon Corps for a year got paid on that last transaction and they're going to get paid on the next transaction as well. And I feel really good about that.

So I would say honestly like a similar fulfilling, but like back in my feet made my life makes sense. So when I started to feel like it was time for my next thing, yes, I fought it and I thought it out of a few things. One, who am I? Like, my life is extraordinary. I get to help people all the time. Oh, my God, fear. Like, what if I fail at my next thing, whatever that is, is all this going to be for nothing? And people will just think I'm a one-hit wonder that definitely was something I had to work through. And I didn't really know kind of how to top that thing, you know, all the attention that it was receiving. I was receiving all the accolades. My ego was involved for

sure. But I couldn't sit there and tell back on my feet members in our mission to push and challenge themselves, you know, moving things forward one step at a time growing if I wasn't willing to do the same. So I was like, listen, I have an incredible board of like 13, 14 C level people. There is an amazing budget, the program, the systems, the processes, the team, everything had been set up. Like, I really felt like I did my job as the founder and the first CEO of the, of the organization. So it, it helped me to be able to move on to the next thing. And then you, you go on and you do solid core, which if you don't know, for the listener, it's a Pilates studio that's just fucking badass.

You scale that out and you get to, you sell it eventually for like $300 million, but you had this story and you could dive deep on the numbers. And we went through a lot of the numbers on money-wise, but you can go through some of the numbers. But if I remember correctly, your idea was basically like you were in L.A., you went to a Pilates studio, you do the math and you're like,

well, they have like eight reformers here. A reformer cost this much money. I think I could do like $100,000 a month if I make this in D.C. or New York or wherever you made the first one. Is that story right? Yeah, pretty close. I discovered it in L.A.

and then I was back in New York and found another Pilates studio that had the same machines as them. And that I started to do the math. After I went, after I went for like 30 days and I was like, I have never seen my body look like this and it's only been 30 days. And I feel so good and I'm addicted to it.

I was just bringing everybody I knew. And then I did the math. And I was like, this is an incredible business. And no one's really doing it on a big scale yet. What was the math? Well, so there's 10 machines in there in this particular studio. And the per class was like $30 a class.

And you couldn't buy members. you had to buy every time you went. And how many, how many people per class? 10, 10. Oh, sorry, duh. And it was a full? Yeah, 10 times. Yes, it was 10.

It was full every time you couldn't get into these classes. So there was 10 classes a day, right? Okay, so that's $300 a session times 10. So that's $3,000 a day. Mm-hmm. And they're full all the time. All the time. All the time.

Like impossible to get into class. and you're like $3,000 a day times 30, that's $90,000. That would be cool. Yeah, totally. And I also felt, you know, one of the things that I tell people a lot when I speak is like, play a game, you know you can win. And so I knew after back on my feet, I had to find another game I can win. I was the perfect person to start back on my feet because of my story, my experience in nonprofits,

it's my true authenticity for wanting to help these guys. And I just had a knack for understanding system, scalability, and process. And so with Solid Core, I knew I needed something that was authentically, authentically representative of who I was. And I am the workout queen. I mean, out of all my friends, I've done so many marathons, like fitness and wellness has always been a key, if not the key priority. And so when I discovered this, I'm like,

nobody knows you can work out like this. We're all out there jumping, you know, getting injured because it's a right of passage to be fit. Like this is so different and nobody knows about it. And and I know, I know how to build community. I know how to scale. I understand branding and I understand how to give a really good experience. Therefore, this is a game I think I can win. This is what I'm going to do next. And how old were you for this one? 31, 30. 31 32 3132 yeah and you had saved like i think you said like 150 grand from five years yeah 175 from like five years of running the nonprofit and you put didn't you tell me you put all of it into

a location and reformers like you like transferred the money you like transferred it from like and's checking account to solid cores check an like all of it yeah and that then that didn't feel so scary because i was 100% owner in the business. So it was like, the scary part was that that, that it wasn't moving the money. It was that the money was going to leave that account. Yeah. Did it all leave? Oh, I mean, a high majority. But the great news was as soon as I opened, we started making money. So, you know, I had, I mean, Sam, like I was, I still am, but especially back then, not a necessity. I was like a killer negotiator. I had to get you to root for me. You know, so I'm talking. I'm talking. to my general contractor, you know, and it's like, listen, can we do net 60 terms? Like,

if I can pay you sooner, I will. This is who I am. I started this nonprofit. This is what I'm doing now. You know, I have this money. You know I can pay you, but I'm trying to make sure I don't, like, get in front of my skis. And so, like, I would negotiate, you know, that side of things. And the first landlord made me give four months of security deposit, which killed me. I was like 30 grand that I have to give to you that, like, just gets to sit there. there. And after that, I refused to do security deposits and was very successful in making that happen. But yeah. And so as soon as like we opened and I started selling packages, I'll never forget my first, my first sale. It was this woman named Amy, who I still know she was pregnant. And she was like,

I want to buy, you know, private sessions. And she went online and she bought $2,500 worth of private sessions. And I was like, I can't believe this woman just gave me all that money. She's never even done the workout. She doesn't know anything. And so I trained her every day at 5 a.m. Before the studio, like we started class at 6 a.m. And then, you know, once we opened, I got press. I leaned on my media contacts from back on my seat. I got an article on the post.

Yeah. It was D.C. Yeah. And so how much was the startup costs? It was, oh gosh, you know, but I know the build out was like 150 grand, right? Wow. I had to buy the machine. I had to pay a licensing fee.

of $25,000 just to open the studio. That was just a licensing fee. That's insane, right? That's an insane deal. Why can't I just buy a machine? It's my machine. Let me do what I want. That's why I ended that relationship in a couple years and went through a lawsuit.

But then I had to buy the machines, which I financed because I couldn't afford to buy them out right and have all the cash. I had to finance them. And I was paying a monthly, you know, a monthly fee to do that. And then, and that, so those machines were $6,000 at that time, I know, $7,000. apiece. That was 70 grand, but I didn't have to pay it all up front. And then the rent was nine, no, sorry, seven grand, seven grand a month. Damn. And what was your first month of sales? Oh, I like, we literally did over 100 grand in the first month. That's insane. It was nuts.

I mean, but I was betting big. And, you know, I think I told this story of that, but it's so good. I have to have to tell it. I was petrified. You know, those moments where you have that you're like, all in and you're like, oh my God, what am I doing? Larry, here comes Larry again, from back on my feet. And he's like, and listen, I'll give you 75 grand for 30% of the business. If you don't want to use all your capital, like, listen, you grew this nonprofit. I know you're going to be successful. You know, if you want to keep a little cash, I'll do this deal. And back then, 75 grand, when all I had was 175, was a lot of money. And I, you know, I was beginning to think it was a responsible thing to do to take this money.

maybe I should do this deal. And then I remember thinking, I have the money. And if I take his money, all I'm going to say is this is a massive doubt in myself. I'm doubting myself. And when things really get hard, I am then going to lean into that 75K and convince myself, like, well, at least I have that. You know, like, you know, I don't need to, this is too hard. At least I have my 75K.

And so I was like, I can't take that money. It's just going to, it's going to take my drive away. It's going to take the hunger. I need to feel like I'm being chased by a bear. I need to figure this out. And that's the way this is going to be successful. So I just, I mean, every hour of, I was passing out solid core pamphlets, flyers,

like anything I could do to get you to come take a class. And then fortunately, what happened was the same thing that happened to me when I took it. Everybody started telling their friends. And Sam, after your first class, right, you said you were so sore. Guess what everybody wants to tell? Not in a bad way, by the way. But everybody wants to tell everybody how, oh my God, I'm so sore. I did this workout called SiloCorps.

You've got to go. They all want to tell each other how much they're working out. So it just snowballed. Did you create the routine? That was part of the license. So I got trained on what was called this method called the degree. So we had someone come in and train me and then I trained my trainers on how to do that. I'm not a personal trainer.

Like that's not my background. And so we started, again, using their training program for us and then soon realized that, like, we actually want to make this more athletic. These names that they're using were kind of silly. It was, it was like nothing intuitive. And then the machines started breaking. And so I was like, this relationship is doing nothing for me. I don't know why I have to be associated with Legree. I want to like make my own machines that I need to be in charge of manufacturing. like the workouts don't make sense. I had hired somebody else to do the training who had a big background in MMA and, and, you know, she was certified and everything else.

And we started playing around with the workout. She wrote a massive training program. And then we separated from Legree. And he stood me, like immediately. Which you won, I think, right? Sorry, you're not a lot of say. Well, I mean, it's far enough down. But for all intents purposes, he had to buy back.

his machines for me and we agreed to never to never talk again, which we haven't. So and frankly, after we did that, all of these other people who were part of LaGrie then also started to make their own machines realizing like, why are we paying a massive premium on machines? This isn't a franchise. So we're not getting the benefit of a national grant here. Yeah, yeah. Like it just didn't make any business financial sense. So yeah. And then making my own machines, like that was a huge gamble. I didn't know how to do that, obviously. And like tooling, engineering, manufacturing prototypes, I probably spent, lost a couple hundred grand just because I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe probably even more than that. But like, we got a machine. It wasn't right. I already like,

it like it didn't work properly. Like we had to redo it. It was a mess. What was your first year's revenue? The first year revenue, I think you asked me this last time. Then I had a trouble. I think you said a million dollars, right? Well, the first, it was more than that because that was the first studio's revenue. And then in the first year, you know, I had five of these open. You had, I didn't know you had five at the end of the first year. Yeah. That's insane, right? Yeah, but same thing. I'm like, momentum, momentum, momentum. You ever heard the funny story about Subway? And I don't know if it's true or not, but like, I just love it, so I keep telling it. But Subway had one location and they were like off the beaten path and they weren't doing that great.

they thought, you know, we need to open a second one because people will think if we have two that we're killing it. And I like remember hearing that story. I'm like, that's so brilliant. And even though we were killing it, I was like, I need to maximize on this and get two and three and four open to that people start being like, I'm seeing this thing everywhere. I must be missing out. They must be doing so well. This thing must work. And that really like served us really well. So we just kept reinvesting the profits into the next studio. I kept negotiating, you know, as long, like longer terms to pay back if I needed to. And I just stopped doing security deposits with landlords.

How old was the business when you sold each different chunk? Because you sold it a couple of times, right? Yeah. So I did a minority deal in 2017. So the business was four years old at that point. And we had 27 locations on an annualized basis. each one of those studios was doing about 700 grand. Okay, so 27 times 700, that's roughly $19 million in revenue.

Yeah. You sold the business for what valuation, or you sold a chunk for what valuation? I did a pretty big valuation back then. So the valuation was like close to $60 million. Wow. Yeah. And people, people, the firms definitely balked at that. And I just said, listen, it's not so much about the number.

It's about the terms. and I know how much money I need to get to 100 studios, and that's $12 million, because I'm going to continue to use the profits, and I also want to take secondary off of the table. And obviously no one like that, especially that early. And I was like, listen, those are the terms. Like, don't get so freaked out about the terms.

Tell me what you need in order to do this deal. And so there was a healthy pref on the minority deal that I agreed to, and I had no problem doing that. And I remember two people were like, you know, Anne, well, how do we know you're not going to walk away for $6 million? And I'm like, I would just sell the whole business if that was the case. Like, you think I'm in this for $6 million? Which is such a good way to like approach it.

You are good. I'm really bad at negotiating. Like all my staff knows that like don't come to Sam about salary discussions because my default is like I just say, I just say you got to talk to this for other person about that because I just say yes to I just say yes to everything. So I've, like, removed myself from negotiation because I'm too nice and like, well, how do you think I get on this podcast?

I know. Like I said, well, I don't, that would sound like a back hit a compliment. It's not. But I, I'm just, I'm soft as fuck. Like I just, I'm like, yeah, I'll do whatever you want, I'll do. But to approach like a negotiation of like, well, don't say no. Just tell me what you need to win. And I'll see if I can actually make that happen for you.

And but then in order for you to win, it has to take it to account. Here's what I need. Exactly. And so I did that with landlords and, you know, and private equity. It's like, you know, landlord would always buy that. But we, we always do security pilots. I'm like, that's not really a response, right? Like, what are you trying to protect against? Right. You have a corporate guarantee. You have X. Like, help me understand this. And I can try to solve the problem a different way. So I solve the private equity problem with the preferred return. You know, it's like your downside is, I'm not going to see another dime.

you make, you know, the 2.5x your money. That's just such a funny response. We always, well, why do I have to give a deposit? Because we've always do deposits. Well, that's not a good reply. Give me a different reply. That's the best. That is the best.

And it really, it really does work because you make them articulate what's important to them. And usually what's important to landlords is, you know, the ledger, the balance sheet of the total, you know, term of the deal. And, you know, so that's why we were able to push rent a little bit further. down the road and like increase the rent in year five or six and you know okay you're protected on the corporate guarantee you know front so like you know you have three years so i'm not going to do a security deposit and let me tell you why that's important for me and why it benefits you because the more

i get open the bigger the brand is you know it's going to get more brand equity and and you know this location will do better so yeah i think people all people can do a better job of of negotiating and And it's one of a really amazing skill sets to learn. Chris Voss never split the difference. I love that book. I read that book during COVID because I really had to get good at negotiation. What's the what's like the summary of that? Well, he just goes through these different strategies, right?

About like mirroring. And he gives this one of my favorite examples was he gives this of a car. He goes in. He's like, listen, I have call it $10,300. You know, that's the car that I want. And just say it was like $15,000 or something. And the guy comes back, like, okay, great news. I got down to 14.

He's like, wow, thank you so much. I really appreciate you advocating for me. But the amount of money I have right now hasn't changed. I still have $10,300. If you can do the deal for that, you know, I'm here. Goes back, comes down more, gets to like, call it 113. And at that point, he knows, right? Because he hasn't moved.

He knows. You're not walking away. You're so close. The guy's going to do the deal. And I remember using that strategy a lot as well in negotiating. You get people to come, come, come. And now they're just too close that they're not going to move away. So the whole point is like not meeting in the middle.

Wait, so is the point is then do you go to 11,000 or do you stick at 10.5? He stuck. He stuck because that guy is so close now. He's not going to walk away. You used to be five ran away. Now you're just $800 or $800 or $800 away. So he like ends up getting, you know, the deal done. and he just goes through different strategies in there on how you can mirror.

You know, this is what I hear you're saying. Yes, you know, and like, don't walk away when you hear and no. Like a no doesn't have to be a bad thing. So me and my lawyer, who I had on staff at that point, who's just a jack of all trades and unbelievable. You know, we read that book, Sam, because during COVID, we knew it's like, what's going to kill us? What's going to kill this company is not that we don't have revenue coming in right now.

It's if these landlords sue us and make us pay rent. and no one really understood who was right or wrong then. It's like, well, this is a force majeure. It's like, well, we don't have any money coming in. How do you expect us to pay rent? So we just said, we just have to get the landlords on our side. We have to figure out a way to restructure the deal that doesn't allow us to pay rent when we are closed. And we also can't kick the can down the road.

So we came up with strategies like, how about we lengthen the term of the lease? We'll add another year or two to the back end of the lease, you know, so that you have a long tenant. Like, if you force us to pay rent, you're not going to get another dime from us, you know, because we're going to go bankrupt. But if you work with us, or maybe we increase the rent, you know, year eight, nine, and ten to make up some of the difference for this. But we know that we couldn't in a year from now have this like, okay, you owe rent for those three months and give us a check for 90K. We had 75 studios. Like, there was just no way we were going to recover from that. So anyway, those kinds of things, you know, people talk about how

COVID killed so many gyms. And a lot of that was not just because of COVID. It was because of these operational and financial decisions that weren't like made as smartly as maybe some other companies could have made and not understanding what was going to be the demise of them. When you when you completely got out, it was like what, $300 million valuation? Yeah, a little more than that. But yeah. And that was last April I got I sold all my shares. How old was the business then? Nine and a half years. that's a great run. And when you look at what made you guys great, was it operational excellence? Was it because your brand was cool? Was it because the workout was better than anywhere else? Like what's like the honest assessment of like these were the one or two factors that set us apart from Barry's boot camp or whoever else is you consider to be competition or all the mom and pops out there? Yeah, the workout is incredible. And I'm glad you've gone to it because you can understand a little bit what I'm saying. It's just like unlike anything that was ever out there. And now there's a

lot more Pilates out there, but we had speed to market. We are the dominant player, you know, in the space. And we have a pretty cool, full brand. So I think the aesthetics, we know what our brand is, right? The whole tagline is, create the strongest version of yourself. And I think the company is still doing a really good job of leaning into that. One of my favorite campaigns we did was it's not for everyone. And we really went in and like, this may not be for you, but it's for somebody. It was almost like a Nike commercial. It's like if you like to push yourself. Those are great commercials.

Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about the Nike Olympic ones? Yes, exactly. Yeah, those are great. Winnings when I'm not for everyone. So we did this campaign a few years ago. And it really like people, people watch that.

And it's like, I want that to be for me. I'm tough. I'm strong. I like to push myself. I want to grow. I can handle tough things. And so I think there's this aura of it. You know somebody who does solid core.

You're like, I know who you are. Like, I know exactly the type of person you are. You're driven. You're ambitious. You like to work hard. You're not afraid of the work. You're not, the work is actually the joy for you.

You want to feel good at the end of the day, knowing you put your all and tried your best at like everything you did. So I think the brand ethos is definitely a big part of our success. And don't get me wrong. Again, operationally, I'm a pretty good operator. Are you like pretty good where you're like,

you're actually the best? Like you're top? Or are you like, that's like I'm pretty good at it, but it's maybe not the best, the thing that I'm best at. Yeah, I'm great at putting systems processes in place, but like I'm not the right person to run solid core today, if that makes sense. Like it's too big. It's too monolithic. It's like I just, I move quickly and that's not actually what you need. You need somebody like Brian who's much more methodical, analytical, patient. I think that for most entrepreneurs who are like new,

I think that branding and some of these exercises aren't terribly important. But I think that if you have a proven track record where you're like, this person executes well and they execute when you have that track record, which I think I do, like for all my businesses now, I spend a lot of time on branding where I'm like, what is this? How does this make someone feel like the colors, the name, things like that? And that, like I said,

I don't think that's important for most people when they're just starting out because it's like you just got to get started and get some traction. With you guys, you kind of, it seems like you came out the gate with good branding. And you're kind of in that boat, by the way, we're like, this is your second company. And you're like, it's like, no, you execute it. So it's okay to like kind of sweat this stuff or think this stuff through. Who inspired you for your branding and where, what was the exercise that you went through? Yeah, we're similar there.

I love the branding and marketing as well. So I, I did that for back of my feet and, and solid core in the beginning. Um, you know, like with back on my feet, it just, the name itself, I remember someone telling me like, oh, you should call this thing the homeless runners association of America. And I was like, that alone will make the thing fail because it doesn't sound cool. It doesn't, you know what I mean? It sounds like one of these every other organization that just like, uh, you know, and I wanted us to be cool. And coming up with the name for Solidcore, it was just like reiterating a bunch of names. I'm like, oh, that just has it.

That just makes you sound badass. Like, you know, and people like, oh, that's solid. Like, obviously, like, the core piece has, you know, lots of double meanings and whatever. And then the brackets, I thought could indicate, like, your obliques and the tightness and community and together. And so I was like, this is it. It just kind of looks cool.

And they, you know, we haven't done a redo of the logo or anything. Like, it just kind of stuck around. And the brackets, I mean, I have, I know if you can see, but I have like, a bracket. Now I lifted up my shirt for you too. I have a bracket. I have a bracket tattoo. Again, I just, I just always feel like things need to be cool for people to want to want to be a part of them. And so I didn't want to spend a ton of like stupid money on branding and marketing for another idea that probably would have worked also. But one of my mantras is that there's more than one right answer. And this was like a right enough answer to. I want to ask you about some ideas,

but you kind of caught the Pilates thing, like, at the right. Yeah, time that one well. What fitness-related businesses excite you right now? When you were talking about a few, you were talking about something when I started thinking of Hydra. It's called Hydrix. Have you seen Hydrix? H-Y-D-R-O-X?

Hy-R-R-R-R-X, I think it's called. Hair-Rox? Yeah. Is it, High-Rox? Sorry, like the competition? Yes, the competition in New York. Like, I went and saw it. It's awesome.

It is awesome. I saw that and I'm like, oh, this is like going to be a, this is, it's already a thing. But it's like, this is like really going to be a thing. Are there any things that you see where you're like, this is, this is like going to pop? Well, this, I will talk about what you can finish in a second. But one of the things that my husband and I, a bunch of friends just did is 29029. Have you heard of this event? Yes.

The founders in Hampton. Did you talk to Mark? Yeah, I did talk to Mark. Yes. So I'm going to go to, they're releasing the schedule soon. I'm going to one of them. You got to go. We just did it.

So 29029 is the elevation of Everest. So they created this event where they partner with ski mountains for the most part around the country. And you have to climb whatever the number of times up that mountain that's the footland of Everest. So we were in Mount Term Blant, which is in Canada. And our mountain was about 2,200 elevation. So we had to climb this thing 15 times 1.7 mile. And it was steep.

And I'm like a marathoner. I've done these things. I really was like, I'm just walking, you know, up a hill. Like I'll be fine. Completely different than anything I've ever done before for the pure duration. Like if you think it takes you 60 to 90 minutes to get up these things, you know, you're out there for 15 to 20 or some people longer. Like some people literally had to be on their feet for 30 hours to get the 15 hikes in for the time that you're allotted because you have 36 hours. It is unbelievably inspiring the people that are there because most people are there because they're going through a divorce.

They're fighting some health battle. They've lost 100 pounds. They've got something, you know, bigger outgoing and in their life. And they need to show themselves that they can climb the F and Mountain physically so that they can go back and do it, you know, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, whatever. And it's just awesome. Like, it's awesome. Yeah.

And his business is wild. basically, I think they sell out, like most other events now. I think it's like $5,000 to go and they provide the accommodations. And it's not, you're not slum in it. It's like really nice stuff. Yeah. And so you think that's like going to take off? I think things like that.

Like I think there's going to be high rocks. Love it. Innovation. There was a cross-based cross-wick games. I think you're going to start to see more events. You know, remember when like Ragnar and some of the, you know, Ragnar Relay? No, what's that? Oh my gosh. So Regner used to have, it's like a 20, R-A-G-N-A-R. It might still be going on. I just don't know anybody who does it anymore, but it was these relays where you had two vans and you had like 24

hours to run hundreds of miles and like you're literally driving through the night. Like, your vans are moving on. There's stations or, it was just, again, so cool. I don't really know if it's still going on, but it is. I think it is. And the company that owns it, I think they own. I think they own like a bunch of different events now. Yeah. So I think that because I really think that there's this continued movement. I mean, I know you don't drink. I really don't drink.

A lot of my friends don't want to be partying. Like everybody is looking, at least in my group, for like physical fun activities to be doing with their time. And I think these sort of endurance challenge events of all sorts are going to continue to grow and pop up all over the place because that's how I think a lot of people want to spend their times. And I'll tell you, I didn't have my phone with me for the entire time I hiked. I refused to bring it with. And I just am craving being out in nature, challenging myself physically. And I think a lot of other people are too. So you're going to see more of that.

I think a lot. And then from the boutique... By the way, Mark told me he was like, I was like, what makes you guys special? And he was like, well, I gave a big breakdown. But he was like, one of the things is that we make it so like most of the people are going to fail. Like we want it to be hard enough to where if you get done with it, it's a big deal to you. And you're going to want to talk about it. He's like most events, they actually make it where too many people succeed. And so he was like talking about how like the mindset behind making that event. But you know what they do really well?

So the ascents, they list different mountains. So you actually don't feel like you're failing. So even though you may have not made it to Everest, like if you climbed 10 of those, you made it to Kilimanjaro. So they give you a metal, a Kilimanjaro metal, instead of like... Did you get all to all of it? Yeah.

Did you almost quit at all? Or were you like, no, I'm getting this, no, I'm getting this. No, I'm getting this, no, I'm getting this. Well, Mark will tell you. So I didn't get any sleep the night before. And I actually did like a mini meltdown. And I'm like, I don't do well with sleep deprivation. I'm not going to be able to do this.

And so I was on three hours of sleep. And my strategy was, I'm just going to do as many as I can, as fast as I can before I hit a wall. So I was on page. to probably finish in the top five. And my 11th lap, it just, you know, like have you ever done an endurance event and like the wall? It just happens and it happened.

And I made it up the mountain halfway in the time that it was taking me to reach the whole thing. I had to sit in the med tent for 45 minutes. I'm asking them. I'm like, I can't keep going. I need to go down to the mountain. Does my half of lap count so I can come back tomorrow? And they're like, no.

And I was like, I'm like, what? Like, and now I really can't go down. And I just couldn't get myself together. And along comes Mark. And he gives me Coke, like not that kind of Coke. He gives me Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola. Yeah.

And he was like, yeah, he's like, you're going to do this. I'm going to walk up the second half of the mountain with you. You know, you're not going to go back down. I can see it in your eyes. You know, like, you're not somebody who needs to go back down. So, like, yeah, I took that shot of Coca-Cola and, like, got up. and we made it up the second half of the mountain, and then I went down and went to bed

and finished my next four in the morning. But, yeah, Mark, like, came along and saved me. You had this, you put in the notes, you said, the number one reason we had to let people go was because they lacked proper judgment and critical thinking skills. You said, what I discovered was that the best critical thinkers

are great at taboo because you have to think on your feet and be strategic when you describe the word you want to get people to say. What's taboo? I don't even know what that is. Yeah, so taboo is a game where you, like, have teams and you get a card, and at top of the card says a word.

Let's say it says, you know, book. And you have to get your team to say that word. But underneath that word book is five words that you can't say to get them to say it. So it might say like page or reading or things like that. So you have to think creatively and I have to know who's on my team. You know, so like how would get Sam to say this, you know, say this word. And like there are people who crush that game. And from my experience, whenever we've played on a retreat or something,

the people who get stuck or flustered or can't think on their feet, whatever, usually don't work there very much longer. And I'm like, there has to be a correlation between this game, the ability to figure it out of like, who's on your team? How do you make this happen? Thinking on their feet.

And some of the smartest people that I think are my friend group are also excellent at that game. So there's something there. You also said something like, you're like, well, AI is taking over fitness. and you can personalize data, supplements, exercise, food based on individuals. So, for example, if you're a 44-year-old woman who once again, 10 pounds of muscle, we know your blood work, we know this about you, we know that about you.

Here's the program that you're going to be using or you should be using. Is there anyone in the space who you like who's taking advantage of that insight? Yeah, so I'm an advisor and an investor, so I will disclose that to a company called Oxford. And they are an at-home. It's sort of like tonal, but I think it's much more. comprehensive and better, and their AI game is really progressing to do just that. It knows when you're tired. It knows certain things, you know, how you're lifting the weight, you're in balance, whatever, and they are really investing in the AI so that they can partner and you can add your

blood work in and you can add every sort of data point that you have about yourself and then what your goals are. And it will design again, like exactly what you need to be doing. And I think we're really, I think that's going to start to take off in a lot of different areas. But listen, there's a lot of people who are still just like checking the box. And I think that's why they get frustrated because they're not doing the right things for the results that they want. And it's a little bit of a guessing game, you know, not knowing your metabolism, not knowing your deficiencies, not knowing, you know, again, your age or your hormones and how all these things are affecting the workouts that you do. So I think that's just going to continue to within five years. I think it'll be kind of foolish to just be like guessing on what you should be doing to work out.

I've had a handful of friends get diagnosed with cancer recently. And one of my friends detected it because he did one of these like pre-nova or something like that, one of those like scans that you just pay money for. And I'm like in 50 years or some amount of decades, we're going to look back and we're going to think, it's insane that you had cancer growing inside of your body. and it could have been okay had you just been told that it was there. And it's like you've got this like foreign thing in your body.

That you don't know about it. And that's kind of a that we accept that's normal now. But I think that in some time in the future, we're not, we're going to be unwilling to accept that. And so I'm personally really interested in that. I am also personally quite interested in like figuring out exactly the fitness or diet that works for me.

I can't, based off of blood work, I don't think I've seen a product out there that's doing it that's nailing that though yet. Yeah, I don't think a lot of it's like pseudoscience. I just, I think it's none of it's like awesome at the moment. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. And I think it will get there because if people can figure that,

if people can figure that out and again, imagine if you've been so frustrated your entire life to not see the results when you're willing to do the work, when you're willing to put in the effort and like it's still not happening. I just think it's only a matter of time with where we are with, yeah, the AI stuff and the demand for it, frankly. Are you going to start another company? No, sir.

Not right now. Not right now. I know too much. I know too much. Like the beauty of starting companies is, I think a lot of times is naivete. And I'll also be truly honest that like the financial motivation is a little bit gone, of course. You know, I really felt with back in my feet and solid core that I'm like, doing a certain one, I was very into them both, but two, it was like, I'm going to make people's

lives better. I felt like I'm the perfect person to do that. So I haven't had, I'm not, and I'm also not looking for it right now, but if I have that experience again where I come across something or I'm moved or I'm like, I have to do this. Like that is when I will, that is when I will do it. But for, for now, I just feel like I'm given myself some freedom, some time to, to field this new chapter. Are you like seeking anything or you're just like like, because that's like an interesting mindset that I've been in before. And I don't know if I approached it the best way, but it's like the mindset, I'm just going to go out and live and I'm going to be, my ears are open if I get called. Yes, I'm just going to live right now. And yeah, I think even if I got called right now,

Sam, I wouldn't, I don't know if I could, if I could do it. Like, because you're talking. or you're happy. Exactly. It's not tired. I'm actually very energized. But you've read the book, Die was Zero. Yeah,

I think we talked about that. Right. So I'm just, you know, I want to be playing. Like, I'm trying to stay in my feminine because I've been in my masculine

a lot in my life. And like, I want to have room and prioritizing playing. And for me, that is beach volleyball. It's any kind of sports. It's connecting with friends and family

and being able to be a little bit carefree. and I don't want to put so much rigid structure rack in my schedule. I just feel like I need a breather from that. And I'm not willing, I'm not willing to do it. All right. So we are about to wrap up. And Anne was like, you got to talk about this idea. All right.

What's this idea? I read it, but I need you to explain it better. So you got this idea. Tell me about jump seat. Yeah. So you've all been at the airport, right? And like your flight gets canceled or delayed and you're desperate to get home. And you, of course, like you go up to the airlines.

And they can't do anything because they're not going to kick any. else off of the flight, they don't care about your status and whatever. And so the idea for Jump Seat is very much like Ticketmaster or something else where there's a platform where, let's just say Sam, again, your flight got canceled and you're like, damn it, I have to get home. You go on Jump Seat and you offer $1,000 for any seat on any flight going back to where do you live? Let's say I'm going back to New York. Okay, so you're going back to New York and like you put the offer out there. And all someone has to. to do is accept your offer. You trade seats. They now are on your flight whenever that flight gets

rescheduled, but they don't have the same timeline that you do to get home. So it's like no problem. And it can work in reverse where if I'm at the airport and I'm like, you know, I have a flight back to Miami, but like I'm in no rush. I'm going to put my seat up for sale. And if someone else wants to get home sooner, they can buy my seat. Well, it's like seat geek for play tickets where it's like someone owns them. But if you own it, you can auction off your. Totally. You can auction. it off. But think about how much happier customers would be in the airlines where you could build in the airline to take a little bit of the cut. So now I'm a happier Delta customer because I solved my own problem, even though Delta couldn't solve it, but they're allowing this platform. And you can

even do it for seats. So let's just say I'm on a flight and I'm sitting in 32A and I'm like, I really want to fly first class. This person has first class. They don't really care. They put up their seat for like 500 bucks and they'll come back and take my economy seat and now I get to sit in first class. Would you ever pursue this? No, because I don't think this is a game I can win. I'm not like a tech person or something. That's why I want like, I want this product so I can use it. So that's why I want somebody who's like, oh my God, this makes so much sense.

And you fell in love with the name. Jumpseat. That's a good name. It's a great. And I have a logo and everything. Wait, do you really? It's so good. I'll send it to Ari.

You can see it. How could someone, wait, would you actually work with someone if they wanted to, If someone want to tell you, do you want to give away, how could someone contact you? Like, can they just DM you on Instagram? Yeah. Yeah. If you can't figure out how to find me, you're not the right person to jump seat. Totally.

So, yeah. How about you think, well, whoever owns jumpseat.com, they're just sitting on it. I own it. You own jumpseat.com? Yeah, of course I own it. How much did you pay for this? Like $5 or something? Not much.

Jumpseat.com was $5. I bought it years ago. I've literally had, I've had this idea for such a long time. And I'm like, just make the logo. You know, like I had my friend make the logo and it's really good. It's the name is so perfect. It's like, what? I can just trade seats.

And people are like, oh, my God, airlines are never going to allow that. And I'm like, they already allow aggregates like Expedia. And, you know, they're already in their backend system. And this solves a problem for them. And they can make more money by just taking $5 off of every time someone switch sheets. Why would, you know, why would they care? This is so funny. I thought this was a half-bake thing.

So you're in. I mean, I would love for someone to do it. I won't give it for you. You can give me a little bit of equity in the company, and you can run with it. But you're going to have to convince me why you're the right person to do it. What would they have to say to convince you?

Well, I'd have to know again, why it's a game they can win. What's their background? Do they have the tech? Do they have any, you know, connections in the airline industry? Have they ever built anything like this before? Or, you know, why would this be interesting to them? Do they know how to scale and build something?

Like, do they have the tech experience, which I don't have it all. That's so funny. I went to jumpseat.com and I'm like, oh, hey, it's registered, but no one's using it. I did not realize you're this far down. All right. So they're going to, well, here's what I want to know. You're going to have to message me. And I'll have to do a, I'll do a shout out, like, if there ever are any results.

But you have to let me know how many people message you. And if anyone's actually promising. Okay. I will. I said it last time. It felt like I was like being not genuine because I was so happy. But you're, you inspire the shit out of me.

And you're one of my favorite people on Earth. I have found myself since we last talk, like approaching a situation. I mean, like, what would Anne think about this? And so I just want to thank you for being part of my life and doing these podcasts. You're the best. You mean a lot to me. That's really sweet. We'll get you a T-shirt, Sam.

That says, what would you do? Just kidding. That would be great. That would be great. As long as it's a crop top. Yeah, as long as it's a crop top, then it's good. And it must be at least two sizes too small. Yeah.

I appreciate you. Thank you very much. That's the pod.