My First Million - Greatest Hits #5 - The 1-800-GOT-JUNK Story

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

We're trying a new format. Sam (@theSamParr) adds his commentary throughout the episode this week. Let him know on Twitter what you think of the change. Brian Scudamore (@BrianScudamore) is North America’s Junk Man. He turned a $700 pickup truck into one of the world's most successful franchises. Hear how he got started, got on Oprah, stumbled and almost killed his business, and the philosophies he uses to run his multimillion dollar junk empire! --------- * Want to be featured in a future episode? Drop your question/comment/criticism/love here: https://www.mfmpod.com/p/hotline/ * Support the pod by spreading the word, become a referrer here: https://refer.fm/million * Have you joined our private Facebook group yet? Go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/ourfirstmillion and join thousands of other entrepreneurs and founders scheming up ideas. --------- Show notes: * (3:41) Intro by Shaan to original episode * (5:22) How Brian got his story out there * (8:42) The origin story of 1-800-Got-Junk * (19:28) How Brian got the 1-800-Got-Junk number * (24:18) The vision board and getting on Oprah * (34:07) How Brian tore everything down to rebuild even better * (38:56) What Brian focuses on when hiring * (47:07) Why business went down $40M and how Brian responded * (51:58) Q1: What does Brian see as their breakthrough moment? * (53:14) Q2: How does Brian get liquidity & think about money? * (56:44) Q3: What would Brian do if he was 21 again? * (57:58) Getting in touch with Brian Sam's commentary: * (1:02) Sam's intro commentary * (4:42) Sam commentary 2 * (10:41) Sam commentary 3 * (12:46) Sam commentary 4 * (14:45) Sam commentary 5 * (15:23) Sam commentary 6 * (20:45) Sam commentary 7 * (31:16) Sam commentary 8 * (39:46) Sam commentary 9 * (41:33) Sam commentary 10 * (54:44) Sam commentary 11 * (59:33) Sam final commentary

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So about a year and a half ago, Sean interviewed someone I love. His name is Brian. Brian started this company called 1-800 Got Junk. And it's an interesting story because it's not really tech-oriented. And it's something that you could probably start this weekend if you just want to go rent a pickup truck for, you know,

50 bucks. And I love these stories. I like these non-tech stories. And I like these kind of bootstrap stories. that aren't Silicon Valley base. And that's what this is. So, 1-800 got junk. If you live in America, you probably know what this company is.

It's really simple. They come and they pick up your junk. But he's built this into this massive business. It does something like $300, $400 million a year in sales. It's a huge company. And what I'm going to do during this episode is I'm going to play it. So you're going to hear the episode in about 30 seconds. And I'm going to pause the episode when I hear something interesting,

when I hear something cool. And I'm going to tell you my reaction. A lot of people said that, the past greatest hits episodes. So these are the episodes that we've already done in the past, but I'm replaying. They said that they wish that they would have a little bit more reaction, as opposed to just me talking about it in the beginning and going away. So that's what we're going going to do. I'm going to hit play in a second. And you're going to hear the episode. You're going to like it. You're going to love it. At least I hope. Let me know the Sam Parr on Twitter.

And let's start the show. I feel like I can rule the world. I know. Together, I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On a road, let's travel, never looking back. Together, this president and I had almost bankrupted. 1-800 got junk. We were down $40 million in revenue in one year.

The financial meltdown of 2007 and 8 didn't help. There was no one in my business that thought I was sane, that thought I made a good decision. They didn't get it because people didn't really understand or see what I saw. And somehow I stuck with it. While it took eight years to get to a million dollars, we do a million dollars on any given day like today.

My next guest who found a basic service that wasn't being met, and now he's making hundreds of millions of dollars. That's right, hundreds of millions of dollars. There I was on a boat with two very senior executives. Offered $75 to $100 million is what they were talking. I said, you know, I wouldn't sell it for. for a billion. All right. We are talking to Brian Scudamore, the founder of 1-800 Got Junk. If you're like me, you've seen the billboards for 1-800 Got Junk. It's one of the sort of the catchiest businesses

that I've seen. And it's also a very simple business. Brian's a guy who, when he was 18 years old, he saw somebody else had a truck and said, you know, I'll haul away your junk. And he was like, that's a business that I could do. And he went and rented a truck and started this business and has grown it from, you know, just him in one $700 truck all the way to basically doing about a half a billion dollars in revenue this year. So he's been doing this business for 30 years. And he's a pretty inspirational dude. You'll hear that in the episode today.

And so I'm excited to talk to Brian. We talk a little bit about how he got the business off the ground. His sort of knack for PR, you know, how he ended up on hoarders and Dr. Phil and Oprah and all these other different outlets and how he's used that to grow the business, as well as his philosophies around hiring and some of the mistakes he made. And it's been a long road over these 30 years. And so it's a very cool story. Here comes Brian Scudamore, the founder.

of 1-800 got junk. All right, by the way, we aren't even in the episode, and I got to say something. You hear how Sean said this guy has been doing this for 30 years. I love that. I think that far too often people want to start something, and they want it to work for six, 12, or they want it to work in six and 12 months. It doesn't work that way. It takes a long time.

And I love that someone dedicated that much time to this. One of the competitive advantages you can have when starting something is to have longevity. Most things, they just go out of business on their own because the founder or the entrepreneur runs out of energy. And that's a big takeaway before we even started. For those who are listening, Brian is the founder of 1-800 Got Junk as well as a couple of other businesses that we're going to be talking about. Kind of an amazing story, honestly.

For a lot of the guests that have come on, they're usually stories that people have never heard of. But I'd say you actually have done a good job of getting your story out there. Is that something intentional? Do you like talking about your story or is PR part of your strategy? Talk to me a little bit about that before we even jump into talking about how 1-800-Gut-Junk got started. It's a great question. I think I realized early on in building a business that a brand is the story that it tells. Now, as a brand, whether you're Starbucks or Airbnb or 1-800-Got junk, you have to live up to

the story. That's the difficult part. But when I saw early on a couple of years into my business, I saw a potential opportunity. Actually, my girlfriend at the time said, you had trouble finding a job. You created your own. Get out there and tell the press that story because I think they're going to eat this thing up. And the next day, we were on the front page of the Vancouver province, the largest newspaper in the city. Our truck, our phone number, it was unbelievable, and the phone ring off the hook. So I learned the value in free press and we got out there to tell our story. But I think it's even bigger than that. We are about changing lives. If I look at our franchise partners and the lives they're creating for themselves with our recipe, with our formula,

why not recruit more great people by telling that story over and over? Why not change people's lives as customers, whether it's hauling away their junk or painting their house in a day with wow one day painting? We believe that stories. help change lives. When you started, that article that came out, that story was more about, hey, I'm having trouble finding his job, so I created my own. So it's really like an entrepreneurial story. It didn't matter what the service was at that time. Is that right? That's correct. I think there was a little bit of, so you couldn't find your own job and you went and bought a truck and started hauling junk type feeling. This wasn't just a, you know, it wasn't a glamorous business. It wasn't

a sexy business by any means. And then when we understood the power of story, we started to look for the next story. So while I created something to fund my way through college and couldn't find a better job and started 1-800-got junk, I also, with a year left in my degree, dropped out of university. And that's where, again, went to the press where they were like, you dropped out of university. You sat down and talked to your dad, who's a liver transplant surgeon,

and told him you were leaving university to become a full-time junk man. And, you know, it just didn't add up in people's minds. And I like that story. And so we're going to go back to the beginning and we're going to talk about how you originally got the idea and where you got started. But the thing that I'll point out, so I read a bunch coming into this because I wanted to get familiar. We hadn't met before and I wanted to understand.

And the question I had, you know, I sort of read the story that I think you've probably told a thousand times now or maybe more, which is, you know, you're 17, 18 years old. You want to figure out a way to pay your way through college. I think it was like you're sitting at a McDonald's and you saw somebody else's truck, right? You saw a hauling truck of somebody else's. And you had the idea. Now, the thing I'm going to ask you is probably something you don't get asked very much. But I've learned, you know, the dirty secret in entrepreneurship is that sometimes the origin story comes a little bit later.

You sort of, you go back and you sort of polish up the origin story and you sort of stretch and skew it a little bit to be, you know, worth telling. And guests have come on this podcast and I kind of asked them the same thing, which is, like, to what extent is, you know, is this 100% exactly how it went down where you really were just sort of had the epiphany and you were struck by the idea? Or were you already thinking about a business idea at the time and this really accelerated it? I guess give us the backstory. You know, was this really how it went down? Well, first of all, kudos to you because it is so rare that I get asked a question that I have not been asked. So bingo, that's a new one. Yeah, you know, it's a great question. And I've certainly. met enough founders to know that that is the truth where many of these things progress and they rewrite history and so on. So my story is 100% true. And, you know, I can think it, you know, back in my mind when I, here's the story and I'll give you a little more detail on it. But I was in a McDonald's drive-thru. There's a beat-up old pickup truck while I'm in the drive-thru. I see this truck and I look over at it. And I'm like, wow, that would be a great idea. It's filled with

junk, maybe because I'm having a hard time finding a job, why don't I just buy my own truck? And for 700 bucks, it was actually $753 to be precise. I bought that truck, saw a classified ad, went out and checked it out, and off I went to build a business. But I remember back to that moment and I can see that truck. It was a black cab with a red box. It said Mark's hauling on the side. It had a little yellow lightning bolt on it. It was filled with truck junk and the truck itself was junk. And it was one of those things where I didn't realize what the business would become in the future. It was really just a vision to pay for college. It was something simple. So while there wasn't a vision there of what I was starting, origin story, if you will, was absolutely

legit. All right, listen to this. So you can definitely, like these, I've met them. I've lived in San Francisco for almost a decade. These Elon Musk types, these people who have this big vision of of saving the world by sending someone to Mars. This exists. It totally exists. But most people, they start where they just say, I want to buy a new car, or I want to pay for my kids' college. I want to provide for my family.

These simple, basic needs. And sometimes they're like, you know, I want to be rich, which is totally a fine answer to this. But these reasons for starting can be really simple. You don't need some, crazy story to tell yourself. It could just be, I just want to start something and I want to do something. And you don't need to plan step number two, three, four, five, six. You don't need to say, well, how is this going to scale? You just need to do step one, which is buying a $753 truck or a van

and getting started. And often I have found if you just start something, it will lead to a new thing, to a new thing, to a new thing. And you spot all these new opportunities that you didn't even know existed that never would have existed had you not started. And you would have existed. And you And that's a good takeaway here from Brian. That's why I like Brian here. And I've talked to Brian, by the way, he's, it sounds like an insult. It's not. He's simple as in he thinks, well, just do this and then this and then this.

I mean, it may not necessarily work all the time, but this seems logical. Just try it. And that's a really, really good takeaway here. Love it. And so, you know, most people, when they see, you know, a hauling truck or a junk truck, they don't think, oh, I want to go do that. In fact, when I was on my way over here, I texted a friend. said, I'm talking to the pioneer of the sort of junk space or the waste management space.

And he thought I was talking about the mafia. He thought like, you know, people who, you know, waste management is sort of code for, you know, being in the mafia. But for some reason, you were drawn to it. And I like that it was, it seems like one reason is because it was simple. It was like, hey, I could actually do that. Was there anything more to it? Or, you know, are you just wired in a different way than most people? By the way, you want to hear a little bit more about waste management.

There's this guy named Wayne Hizenga. Look him up. Super interesting person. He started waste management. That's a company. It's worth like $10 billion or $20 billion, like some crazy number. It's publicly traded. It's one of the largest, maybe the largest waste management company in America.

After that, he then went and started Blockbuster. You know Blockbuster. Of course, you know Blackbuster. They don't exist anymore. The guy started that. And then he went and started CarMax, which is the largest seller of used cars in America. Then he went and bought the Dolphins. Crazy fascinating guy.

You'll spot a lot of opportunity in the waste management space, just like Brian did. Really interesting. A few things that I'm interested in waste management is recycling. It's still not very good. But anyway, back to it. I don't know. You know, the moment was real. The moment happened and why it happened.

You know, was it serendipity? Was it, do I have an eye for spotting ideas? I always remember as a kid I would look at. companies and think, oh, I could do that better. And I think this was one of those moments where I looked and went, I've always been interested in business. My grandparents ran an army surplus store in San Francisco, Lorber's surplus. And I worked there and experienced the game and excitement of building a business with them, albeit that I was a little kid, I felt a part of it. And I think when I saw that truck, it was just, wow, I can do that, something simple. And I think in today's world,

people often think, oh, I got to be the next Instagram. And they're figuring out how to catch lightning in a bottle. But what people often don't understand about a lot of these founder stories, whether your Instagram or Airbnb, is how it started isn't where it ended up. And I think that's no different with my 1-800-Got Junk story. It was a way to pay for college. And it ended up becoming a franchise opportunity that has now grown into four other home service brands. That's exactly what I was just saying.

Thank you, Brian. Listen to Brian. Don't listen to me. You can listen to Brian, even though we say the same thing. Yeah, I think Airbnb is a good example of that where today Airbnb is this amazing brand. And, you know, they book more nights than Hilton Hotel around the world every night. But when it started, it was two guys living in San Francisco, rent was super expensive. And there was a conference in town and people didn't have a place to stay. And so, you know, all the hotels were booked up. So they just said, hey, we have an air mattress. We can let somebody sleep in our condo. we make a little extra cash and they get to go to this design conference. And that was the origin

story of that, which was also very simple, born out of necessity. And so I really like that. By the way, when Airbnb first pitched, they said, we think this can be a hundred million dollar idea. And then one of their friends was like, no, no, no, you got to change that to a hundred billion. And they were like, no way, not a chance. That's impossible. And so, by the way, they're worth like 110 billion at their peak like last month. And they're still in that range. So even the great ones, they don't actually believe that it can be a thing oftentimes until they get started and are years in. So you saw this truck and you were like, I'm going to do this. You go get the truck.

And actually, you had a different brand name at the time. It wasn't 1-800 got junk at the time, right? What was the brand that you started with? It was a smaller brand. So it was more regional. And the phone number was 738 junk. I remember meeting a guy once who told me, you know, your name has to be your phone number. and I remember that and I came up with this phone number that I called the telephone company

and tried to get something, you know, three numbers and junk. And I emblazoned the side of my truck with this phone number, which proved to be, you know, while it might sound really smart, I think it was just something I had heard and went out and did. But it became genius in the sense that whenever we got press, people would see the phone number on the side of the, you know, the front page of the newspaper or in CNN or Oprah, whatever show we'd get on. and it just became this, wow, they'd see 1-800-got junk. They'd remember the number. It was very visual, and it was hugely impactful for us.

Yeah, I think there's a billboard right above my parents' house, essentially. So I've seen 1-800-godd-junk like a hundred times this year. And it is so catchy. It is memorable. And I read something that was like, the rubbish boys? Was that something? Is that one of the names that you had at the time? It was.

So, you know, here's the brand confusion that happened in the early days, such a confusion that I even gave you a different brand than we had initially called ourselves. So here's how it worked. I called the company the rubbish boys. It was really just me, but I had a vision for something bigger. And the phone number was 738 junk. But the side of the truck really had that phone number emblazoned on the side that people chose to call my company 738 junk versus the rubbish boys that I had originally named it because that's what they saw. And that's what led me partially to, okay, if we want to build a brand outside of Vancouver and grow into other markets that are bigger than Vancouver in size, we can't be getting

local phone numbers in every market that's going to be too confusing. And so we came up with this 1-800 got junk. Nice. And so just give the listeners a sense of like the timeline here. So what year were we talking when you started this? Started in 89 and wound down the rubbish boy 738 junk name and changed. changed to 1,800 Got Junk eight years later. And there's certainly a good story behind how I got the phone number.

But I, 738 Junk and the Rubbish Boys, I saw the revenue in my market shrink to half within a year. Because as we switched over to 1,800 Got Junk, I'd even have friends and family say to me, even though the trucks look the same, it was just a different phone number. Oh, there's this competitor out there. You've got to watch them. They look just like you. They're called 1,800 Got Junk. So people got confused between the brands, and I knew that it was short-term pain for long-term gain, and we stuck with it and obviously the right decision in the long run.

And I feel like when people listen to these podcasts, they are typically commuting to work or doing, you know, doing an errand, something like that. And this is an escape. And this is, you know, the goal is for it to be both inspirational and educational. And so, like, one thing that I personally was inspired by was you said long-term just now. Now, like, this is a long-term business. We're talking 30 years of this business, and there are not many, I mean, especially I'm here in Silicon Valley, there's not many 30-year-old businesses around here that you could still talk to the founder and they have the same passion and the business

is still around, and they didn't pivot 10 times or go and try to start five new businesses and ditch the old one. So you really were long-term with this, and I really respect that. And it sounds like, you know, that first eight years you were building up. And you hinted at something. You said there's a good story behind the 1-800 got jump. junk number, I'm a sucker for a good story. So I'd love to hear that and I'd love to hear, you know, first maybe about going long term. Sure. So it's interesting, Sean. I am such an

ADD personality. I mean, to spend an hour on a podcast and not be staring out the window and thinking other things and wanting to go on the internet, you know, I'm very, very ADD. And what's interesting, though, is as often as I see all these squirrels fly everywhere, I have somehow stuck with one business. Now, even though we've added other brands under the O2B brands umbrella, there's still home services, they're still franchised, it fits. But it amazes me sometimes that I've stuck with it and I'm not sure why. I went to 14 schools from kindergarten to college. The only one I ever finished was kindergarten, the only diploma I have, true story. But I just am fascinated by entrepreneurs and how ADD we can be. And most entrepreneurs I see buy a company, start a company,

then they sell it, then they move on to something else. And they're always chasing this success. And I think somewhere early on, I realized, grow where you're planted. I think that selling a company and going from business to business every handful of years can be good for some people. I know a lot of people have done it. I would say in the majority of cases, doing something for a longer period of time will get you better results than just starting something and hoping that it's going to get big fast

and then quitting and bailing. or even starting something and then selling something and starting again. Once you have the ball rolling, even if that ball is rolling quite slowly, it's easier to continue going. But it's not always as fun as starting a different thing, but it's easier in terms of the likelihood of hitting a financial goal is far greater. That's my opinion. That's what a lot of people are much smarter than me say as well.

Stay with the business you've got and just, do your best. And somehow I stuck with it. While it took eight years to get to a million dollars, we do a million dollars on any given day like today. So it took 30 years to ramp up to that point, but you just build this flywheel momentum by sticking with something. It's like diet and exercise. You go diet and exercise and work hard for a week. You don't notice results, but if you stick with it for 12 weeks, wow. If I go to the story now of 1-800 got junk and how I got that phone number. There I was eight years into the business and deciding I wanted to expand into the United States, start the business in Seattle as the first prototype location outside of Canada,

and wanted this phone number. And I remember sitting down brainstorming with my team and we came up with this. If we're not going to be 738 junk and we're going to go more national, 1,800 something junk. And we came up with Got Junk, a play on the Got Milk campaign, a big advertising campaign in the 90s. And I said, okay, I can see it. And I pick it. And I picked. pick up the phone and call the number and it's taken. I don't know where it's taken because I couldn't reach the actual phone number. It just said it wasn't working from your local calling area. So I did some research. I looked around. I called everybody I knew in the states and asked them to make phone calls to the number and nobody could get through. Months later, I finally realized it was

working in Idaho. The Department of Transportation in Idaho owned the phone number. I had made 60 phone calls trying to get the number. I had hired a design company and actually was paying invoices on them designing a logo and a brand for 1-800 got junk before I'd had the number or any indication that I could even get the number because that's how much I believed in my vision or my destiny. And finally, I get in touch with Department of Transportation, I narrow it down. I get through to Michael in the phone room. You know, if your government, you must have someone that runs your phones. And Michael finally says, you've called me three times in the last couple of days. I don't know why you want this phone number, but here's the AT&T forms. I'm going to send them

off to you by fax. I've signed off on it. The number is yours. And bingo, I get this 1-800 gut junk number for free. The point of that whole story, I think, is we have to sometimes as entrepreneurs put the cart before the horse. Spending a couple of thousand dollars on a logo for a brand that I didn't really know I could get. I had to have some blind faith that if this was really a good idea, I was almost going to will it to happen. And I don't know how the universe came together, but it did. And the phone number is ours. And I called Michael back a couple of days later just to thank him when it all settled. And he was no longer with the business. So I have no idea what the story is there. And probably we'll never know. I love it. And so this is not the first time you did this sort of

will it into existence, sort of visualize and then go for it. I read another anecdote. I heard something about you where, like I said, you've told your story really, really well. You've been on Oprah. You've been on, you know, Dr. Phil. You've been on a whole bunch of different, you know, as mainstream, as mainstream gets. And the most interesting part of what I read there was that you had some kind of wall in your office where you were, you and the team were sort of putting up, you know, a vision of where you wanted to be, where things you wanted to have happened through this journey of this company. And one of them was get on Oprah. And so, like, talk a little bit about, do I have that story right? And then is this a, is this a,

Is this something you do repeatedly or was that just a one-off sort of vision board thing you did? Yeah, it's something I do repeatedly. And, you know, I wrote a book called WTF, willing to fail. And one of my favorite stories in that book would be this one. We have the can you imagine wall. There was this big empty wall in our office that were all about visuals and putting up big whiteboards and lots of color and different imagery and quotes. And this wall didn't have anything. So I remember having a question.

conversation with someone in the office who said, I can't think like you can about vision, Brian. And I said, of course you can. Everybody can think about vision. And this guy's name was Cameron Harold, or C-O-O. And so I said, you know what, let me get, take this wall. I put a big vinyl decal up on the wall that said, can you imagine? Question mark. And I put it up on this wall because I wanted people to start to think about vision. What could they imagine for themselves, themselves in the business. Let's think about big, bold ideas. And I challenged Cameron to think big.

He still said he couldn't. So one of the things I put up on the wall was imagine being featured on the Oprah Winfrey show. That was the first so-called quote-unquote, can you imagine? Put this quote up on the wall. Can you imagine being featured on the Oprah Winfrey show with my name below it as my commitment that I was going to make that happen? People would walk by it, look at it, be confused by it, ask me questions.

and I started putting a bunch of pens and paper down near the wall for other people to write up their own big, bold, can you imagine? But the cool thing is, is when you can see it and you put it up in a big vinyl decal on the wall, it's something that you start to think about and others start to think about. And we took Tyler, our first PR hire, who was in the business, and he would go sit beneath that wall and look up at it and go, can you imagine. Oprah, hmm, I can see it, I can see it. He used to tell me he could see it. So he made it his mission to get on the phone and send emails and do all those sorts of things to pitch Harpo Studios. And we tried every which way we could to get in touch until 14 months later.

We've got this open office environment. Tyler's wearing this blue wig, which he used to do to get in the spirit winning pitch. And he stood up and he said, I did it. I did it. We're like, what is going on? He got us on the Oprah Winfrey show. The Harpo Studios called and said, we need you down here. We got a hoarder. We've read about you guys. We heard about you and you've pitched us. We need you. And we were, this was in Los Angeles. We didn't have any franchises there. And so we had to get creative. We called our San Francisco Bay Area franchise owners and said, we need you to drive down to help us in L.A. We're going to fly down and meet you. We cleaned out a job for a hoarder. And sure enough, the next Monday, I was in Oprah's green room about to go up on stage for my four and a half minutes of fame. And man, did that.

the phones ever light up with that thing, Rand? Wow. A hell of a story. I love that story. That story is like the reason I do this podcast is to hear stories like that. And it makes me want to do it, you know, just even for my own, for my own self, not even just for my business. Is that something, I mean, is the can you imagine wall?

Is that still up or has that sort of run its course now for you? No, it's still up. And we've got to do a call out to get some, this is a good reminder. Thank you, Sean. a call out to get people to submit even new, more fresh ideas. But we did cool things like, you know, and this is where I love that I can come up with an idea or someone else can come up with an idea and a completely different person can execute on it and make it happen.

You know, the whole teamwork makes the dream work. If I think of my Oprah vision and Tyler single-handedly made it happen. There was a vision up there that a woman Andrea, a marketing manager in her office said, can you imagine, hers was being featured on the side of a Starbucks cup. And Starbucks back in the day used to have this campaign on the side of their lattes and cappuccinos that said the way I see it with quotes from famous actors and musicians and poets and so on. And she pitched them the idea of a quote from me.

Now Starbucks had to help me write it on a high school dropout, so clearly needed some help. And I remember this quote ended up there and it was really the first. fact that I didn't care that my name was on the cup, but it said founder and CEO of 1-800-Got Junk. The 1-800-Got-Junk brand ended up on 10 million cups with Starbucks for free because Andrea Baxter had the freedom to conceive something unusual and big that she wanted to make happen and she did. The quote was, you are what you can't let go of. And so it really fit with junk removal. You know, if you can't let go with things, you know, what are you holding on to? And so it was an amazing, amazing experience.

I mean, we had so many people that saw that. But that also inspired others in our company to dream big and come up with their own, Can You Imagine's. And so this is one where I got to ask because, you know, once it happens, it's like, wow, that was a great idea. So glad we did that. Can't believe it happened. That's awesome. What a rally.

But when you first put up this vinyl and you say, can you imagine? And I love how you're talking about Andrea and you're talking about Tyler. And you're talking about, I forgot the name of the first person who you were, you were, first challenging to think big. But Cameron. Cameron. And so you, so I do a lot of things like this in our office when we were running our startup. We just sold the company.

But when we were doing our startup, I had all these posters on the wall. I would challenge our team to do these funky exercises. And, you know, not everybody loves it, especially right off the bat. Sure. And so, and a lot of times I feel like, I don't know if you watch the show, the office, but I feel like Michael Scott, who's this like, you know, this goofy boss who's, you know, on the edge. of, you know, sort of like delusion and insanity, and then sometimes it turns out to be genius.

But what are some of the other things that you do that are like this? And I'm guessing if I've felt that way, that there's probably other CEOs who, you know, we're all making it up as we go. And you want to try some new things, but your staff may not always be comfortable with it or it may not be standard. But it sounds like this was an example where you did it anyways and it worked. Can you talk a little bit about that, you know, as advice for essentially me and anybody else out there who, you know, sometimes feels like Michael Scott when we do this sort of thing? By the way, I'm kind of like Sean, or at least Sean's people. I hate this stuff. But my team, they love it.

And I think a lot of people do love it. Yeah, I've certainly felt like Michael Scott more than once or twice. But it's one of those things where I see my role as the CEO to be this sort of chief visionary, chief possibility guy where I can help people imagine big things. dream in such a way where you never know if you come up with some big ideas you might actually make some of them happen and so putting these things up on the wall i mean that opra challenge to the company to myself was people going how would you ever get on opera why would Oprah cover a junk removal company i don't know but i can see it happening i can see myself giving Oprah that big hug which

i did i don't know how it's going to happen and then sure enough tyler goes out and makes it his mission and makes it happen. And I can give you so many stories of things that we've come up with that have been so bold and audacious and crazy that shouldn't have happened like the phone number, like the Starbucks Cup, but they do happen. And it's only impossible until it happens and it comes true. And I think that as a leader, you can help inspire possibility in others. You know, it's only impossible if someone really wants to believe in their mind, they can't do it. But what if you can help them think, hmm, what if? And I think that's the great challenge. So if you got to be a little Michael Scott-ish to make that wonderful possibility and magic happen, hey, so be it. Yeah, there's that

old cliche like whether you think it's impossible or possible, you're right. And this is sort of an example of that. So it sounds like, you know, when you talked about Tyler, you know, you said something in passing, which is like, you know, he would put on his blue wig whenever he'd get in sort of the pitch mode or sales mode. That sort of sounds like you assembled this crew of people who, you know, fit your vibe and your style. But that wasn't always the case. All right, boys and girls, time to talk about this week's sponsor, the HubSpot CRM platform. If you're looking for a CRM because your business is growing, it's getting complicated, and you need something to organize all your customer conversations relationships. Check out the HubSpot CRM platform. It has things like

analytics tools and something cool called conversational and intelligence. And that means you can have transcripts. You can monitor the different conversations that are happening. That makes it easy to manage and coach your team, provide feedback, and create sales playbooks for everybody to learn from. So if your business is growing and you're scaling your company up and you want to scale the company without scaling complexity, check it out at HubSpot.com. And so one of the kind of famous things of your story is that it wasn't just all roses and rainbows, you, even as you were growing, you hit two major road bumps. And so I want to talk about those, because this is, A, it's not standard, you know, to hear about this and to hear the

kind of transparency that you, that you've, you know, shared with this. But the first one comes, you're now 24 years old. You've got five trucks and you've got an 11-person team. The company's revenue is like 500,000 a year, I think. And something happened. You did not like the direction that the company was going, even though at the surface, it seemed fine. Talk about what you were feeling and then what happened at that stage when you had that 11-person team. And when you say it wasn't all roses and rainbows, I mean, you're 100% right. And I've always believed in this WTF willing to fail attitude where you make enough mistakes. You're going to win a few times.

You're going to learn. And so I've made way more mistakes than I've had successes just to be clear. You know, getting to a point where we're almost a half a billion dollar company today across our brands came from a lot of sweat and tears and a lot of mistakes. And so I think my biggest mistake, which at the time when it happened was horrific. I mean, I was just devastated, but I'm so grateful today for that mistake, for that failure and learning. And what happened was I had 11 employees and they say one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. I had nine bad apples. And I just didn't know what to do. I mean, these were people who just weren't the clean cut profession.

happy, smiley people that I saw in the vision for my little company. And there I was just not knowing what to do, not enjoying coming to work any longer. And so I sat down with the entire team at once and I brought him in for a morning meeting and I said, I'm sorry. I started with those two words, very important. I'm sorry that as their leader, I let them down. I didn't make the right decision in who I brought on board. I didn't give them the love and respect they deserved. I just wasn't having fun and I chose the wrong people and I didn't see any path forward other than starting again.

And again, going from five trucks and half a million in revenue down to just me trying to do it all. Clearly I can't drive five trucks at a time and it was a painful time in my business life where I was losing business and upsetting customers and had to rebuild again and overworking. But I learned the valuable lesson that it's all about people, finding the right people and then treating the them right. And I made the big decision, you know, after that period of time where I said, I'm never going to compromise again on the quality of people that I bring into my company. And, you know, did I make mistakes after that point in time? Of course. But I got very cautious and careful and became very much a slow to hire, quick to fire type leader or company. And we really tried to pick people based on their attitude and cultural fit with our business.

And when you had to make that decision, and it's not an easy decision, obviously. Anytime you let people go from your business is very, very tough. But specifically to let essentially everybody go and hit the reset button while you're mid-flight, that is very, very tough. How did you actually make that decision? Did you have mentors that you talked to? Was it something you thought about for weeks? Did you just wake up and realize today's the day? Talk us through how you actually made such a big decision.

Yeah, I don't totally remember how I got there. I clearly remember the moment of getting rid of everybody because it was so painful. But I don't think I need mentors at that point. I don't think my business maturity was there where I knew to ask for help. I think I just got fed up and said, enough's enough. I'm not having fun. And I think while most people would have said, let's get rid of the nine and keep the two and rebuild, I just knew that I couldn't do it again without completely starting from scratch.

I didn't know who I could trust. I didn't know who was, you know, worth keeping. And I just said, you know what, I just got a clean house and I'm going to completely rebuild. And I remember, you know, my first hire after that, I was like, okay, I'm going to groom this person to then run the second truck and recruit someone else that fits perfectly with them and that vehicle and just scale it up. And we got the culture right. And I'm still friends with many of those people that I brought on in those early days like Dave Lodwick who, you know, was one of my closest friends and was an employee in the truck and was one of those ones in the early days helping me rebuild.

And I think it's so important to focus on the people you bring into your organization because that's all the brand at the end of the day really is. You know, I talked about storytelling, stories that you talk about building your brand and then living up to it as the hard part. You can only live up to it if you've got the right people for you and for your business. When you had to reset and hire the next batch of people, you obviously were being very conscious of who you wanted to bring in. And if they fit a certain mold that you were looking for, what was that mold? Did you write something down?

Like, here's what I'm looking for, the must-haves? How did you think about it? And what was it that you were looking for in people when you reset the culture? If I think of what was wrong at that point in 1994 when I fired all 11 was I just wasn't enjoying working with those people. They weren't the happy, smiley people I envisioned. And so I said, okay, I'm going to hire happy, smiley people that I want to spend time with. And so my litmus test was spend a day on the trucks with them driving around. Did I have fun?

Were they smiley and happy with customers? Do they love life versus complaining about everything that happens to them? I love this because at the end of the day, a lot of the times we get caught into like, this attitude of like, I have to suffer in order to make this work. And in some ways, it's kind of true.

I mean, you do have to suffer. But I've had this feeling a bunch of times and it took me to talk to like smart, wise people and pregnant is one of them where it's like, no, you don't, this doesn't have to suck. You make your own reality. Reality is what you decide is going to be.

And it stinks to have to fire 11 people like Brian did. I actually know a few people have done it. And they said the same thing. They woke up and they go, wait, this doesn't have to be this way. I can make this any way I want. And they made kind of decisions like this, which seemed a little nutty, but it's your life. Do what you want. Live it how you want.

And I respect decisions like this. And I just looked for cheery, optimistic people. And still to this day, I mean, you know, that's a word we use constantly is just hire happy people. And I think that HR professional, that term for a second versus what we call our HR department, which is our people department. I think in the HR world, people go out and they spend so much time trying to ask the right questions and doing all these tests and they overcomplicate the interview process when I think, really, it's just figure out what matters most, a positive attitude, someone you want to spend

time with, and treat them more like you're finding a friend versus bringing a new employee. employee on board. Yes, we've got to look for skill and make sure that the person fits with the job that needs to be done, but we really hire on culture, first and foremost. I don't think that this actually works for everyone. I think that I believe that when you, I believe this works for some people. And this isn't a disrespect to Brian, but when you're building a junk business like this, it's relatively simple. It's just that it's really hard work and you've got to stick with it. I do think if you're hiring for, let's say you're building cars or or you're doing something like a really hard technical challenge.

I think hiring by IQ, hiring by raw brain power is actually oftentimes the way to go and then culture, not just do I want to hang out with them. But for a business like this, I actually do agree with that. But I don't think it's the same for every type of company. I've hired a bunch of people who I just enjoy hanging out with

and it doesn't always work because they're just not capable. And oftentimes when I hire people, I actually prefer, has someone already done this before at another company? That's who I'm going to hire because the best indicator of future results is previous results. And I just want to have been there done that type of person. Not necessarily do I want to hang out with them first. Nice. That's something that right now I'm in the middle of a process where we are creating a new team.

And I have half people who have worked with before for many, many years. And I know them, trust them implicitly. And we're trying to merge that with another half of our team is a bunch of new people, some of which are, you know, great right off the bat. And the others were trying to figure out, do they fit the culture? And it's not an easy one for sure. But it sounds like at some point you did get that to click. And the business starts growing. And so you go, you know, from that sort of half a million to a million in revenue to 12 million in revenue to $12 million in revenue to $100 million in revenue.

And the business keeps growing. And there was another sort of, you know, people problem that came up at one point. So at some point you hire, you know, sort of the superstar C-O. I think this person was the president of Starbucks. Is that right? Yeah, this person was the president of one of the divisions in Starbucks, the U.S. operations. And so I thought I hit the jackpot. We had hired a big recruiter and we're spending a lot of money and they were out there

headhunting like crazy. And I was introduced to someone who was this ex-president of the Starbucks U.S. and wanted to relocate to Canada where they were originally from. And I was like, man, I don't even know how I can afford this person, let alone have my little company attract this person. And I was so impressed with the pedigree that I thought, wow, if I can land this, man, I won the lottery. And I made it happen.

But what I didn't do was take my own advice and really spend time getting to know someone to see, was this person the right person for me? Did they pass the beer and barbecue test? Would I see myself wanting to have a beer with them, hanging out with them, becoming friends? Did they fit in a company barbecue? Would they put on a blue wig and dance around, whatever the case might be?

This person wasn't the perfect fit. Very smart. Did a great job in past jobs and new jobs. But wasn't the right fit for my company. And it reminded me, if you've got 11 employees in your whole company and it's not working out, you know, that can be a disaster. But you grow a business that's well over. $100 million and you've got one person that isn't quite the right fit and they're at the top,

that can have the same devastating effects. You know, this is a great example of the best lessons you often have to learn repeatedly. And so, you know, those lessons that you, that come up again and again, those are the most important ones. And so this time, you're 400 employees and you have to make a similarly tough call. So how did that go down? And, you know, what was your feeling like at this time? because you seem like an optimistic, positive person.

I can tell you're an inspiring guy, but you're human. And everybody has, you know, bad days, dark days. Everybody sort of gets down. Talk to us about what it was like when you had to make that another tough call and how you were feeling and how you came to that decision. Yeah, it was a sad day. I remember, you know, had to make a change with that person. The president of my company had to get the CFO out of the business.

Now to give you a bit of a backstory. Together, this president and I had almost bankrupted. 1-800 got junk. We were down $40 million in revenue in one year. The financial meltdown of 2007 and 8 didn't help, but that wasn't the real reason. We weren't joined at the hip. We weren't firing on all cylinders together and believing in the same vision. And it wasn't that we weren't getting along.

We just weren't really aligned with the same spirit and motivation of where the company could go and how to get it there. And so made that tough decision. So there's two key people out of the organization. This person's entire leadership team I had to get rid of. I had to elevate middle level management up to be my leadership team and take over. And there was no one in my business that thought I was sane, that thought I made a good decision. They didn't get it because people didn't really understand or see what I saw, that this wasn't working and it wasn't going to work. And it was going to be in the end of the business for everybody if I didn't make this decision.

They know today it was the right decision, but at the time, people were scared. And I think the only word I can use to describe how I felt for months was sad. I was sad. I was lonely. I was depressed. But I was determined to rebuild my business and get it to a point again for the long term where we would be in a place we were proud of again. And why was the business down 40 million? That seems like a huge swing at that time.

It's surprising, you know, even even. some bad decisions could lead you down that path. So tell us what caused the business to take such a big swing in such a short amount of time? I think we took our foot off the gas in PR and a lot of our strategy there. We were shifting franchise partners to do more commercial work at the time. We weren't ready for that strategy. We just had them changing gears and changing their focus. And the leadership wasn't there in the same consistent way that it had been in years prior.

And it just didn't work. And when you've got one person in your business who, again, is at the top who doesn't agree with your strategy or your direction, even if you seem to get along, as every day passes, you get further and further apart and you're trying to pull and push two different directions, revenue will not grow. Your culture will not improve. Things will just get worse to the point where it ultimately broke and I had to make a change. And so you make that change. And how did you get the faith of the people back in you? How did you get people to feel like this is going to work? Especially when you yourself were feeling down at the time, but you were determined.

Was there something you did? Did you take people off site? Did you have a big rally meeting? What did you do to get people back to believing? Yeah, I was transparent. I was open and honest. So I remember going on a road show and meeting up with franchise partners. And I'd get, you know, 50 of them in a room.

and we'd sit down together and I'd say, here's some flip charts. I want you to write down every question that's on your mind right now. I'm going to leave the room. I won't know who's asked what. And I'm going to come back and I'm going to answer every single question. And if there's something legal that I can't answer, I'll tell you I can't. But for the most part, I'm just going to be open and honest and say it like it is. And so I told them what was going on and why this happened and that I didn't necessarily have belief that I was the right person to take it from here,

but that I was going to be the interim person to get it to a better place. And I started a search to find Eric Church. Somebody who came in almost eight years ago, we call it a two-in-the-box model where two-heads are better than one. I've got the vision and the culture side of the business. He's got the strategy and execution. And of course, there's some overlap between us. But we spent time when I tried to find Eric, said, okay, I've learned from the previous situation.

I'm going to find the right leader for me. to help someone who believes in entrepreneurs and believes in the wacky, crazy, disfocusedness of how we operate sometimes, but who can help guide me and take the direction that we're going that this person believes in and make it happen. And so I got out there and I described in a mini painted picture, a mini vision of what I was looking for. And I described in a few paragraphs, Eric Church, to the point that I didn't know Eric yet, But when I sent out through LinkedIn and my networks, here's who I'm looking for.

I was so clear that I had three people unrelated in different parts of the country reach out and said the person you describe is Eric Church. They didn't refer five names of execs that they thought would fit the bill. These people said, you're describing Eric Church. He's a guy I know here's his information. You should reach out and get in touch. We spent time in that courtship period mutually getting to know each other to say, is this really the right fit?

And one of the things I noticed about Eric that he didn't even notice about himself at the time is all he had ever worked for was an entrepreneur. He was always the executor, the implementer to an entrepreneur and that person's vision. And it was such a perfect fit because he years prior had actually said, and this makes it, you know, shows how serendipity can play a role. But he was telling his wife one day when she asked, you know, what do you really want to do in life? And he said, you know, one day I want to run a company like my buddy. does. He happened to have been friends with Cameron Harold, who was our C.O. years ago. And he said, I want to run a company like Cameron is. 1-800 got junk. And so sure enough, it all worked out. And here we are today. And since Eric's come in, we've quadrupled our revenue. You know, we're on a path to a

billion right now. So, you know, close to half a billion in revenue with an opportunity to get to a billion in revenue over the next four or five years because we're aligned, because we believe in each other and we're working together as a team. Amazing. It really is amazing. Once you get clear on what you want and you put that out there into the world, it's amazing how it's like a magnet. It'll pull the right people to you because the message you had was clear. And so it resonated with the right people and they knew who to send to you. I wanted to wrap up with a couple of quick questions, rapid fire style, but you know, just you can take them as you will. Things that I wanted to know when I was reading about you and before we met, these were the questions I wanted to ask you.

The first one is, I think in every business, there are the like sort of breakthrough moments where like stuff starts to work or you hit some milestone. And they just feel like euphoric. And in fact, it's, you know, probably, it probably felt better than even now when you're going to do a half a billion in revenue. There was probably a moment in the early days that felt even better as you first started to see things click. What was that moment for you? Yeah, I've been asked that one before and I don't believe there was ever a breakthrough moment. I can tell the stories of when we fired 11 people, when we hit our first. million when we first got a hundred million when we got an opra it just wasn't one moment it's been

the cumulative result of every single decision good and bad that i think i and we as a team have ever made because things like opra i remember it took 14 months of hard work to make that moment happen and those that sort of willingness to never give up you know with the phone number 60 phone calls to finally persuade someone to give me that phone number and to give it to me for free, what would have happened at call number 59 if I said, okay, this is clearly nuts and I'm done. So I don't think it was one moment or even close to it. And it's not a public company, correct? So how did you get, you know, do you do a profit share? How do you get liquidity in the business for yourself? Yeah, from profits. We, you know,

I've certainly taken my share of dividends out over, over time. And we do a profit share called the great game of business inspired by Jack Stacks model of open book managers. where we share our profits this year. We gave well over a million dollars to people in the company where we want to share profits with the people that are behind helping us to build this special group of brands. And my financing strategy because I didn't go public or raise money was really franchising.

People would pay us a franchise fee that we would use that pool of money to help us build up more infrastructure and more growth. And it's been a great model for us. And of course, the podcast is called my first million, which is just really kind of like a catchy name. Sure. But the premise, you know, I think what ends up happening a lot for entrepreneurs is you either

you get excited by ideas, you get excited by solving problems, or you get excited by making money, or sometimes a combination, you know, everyone has a different combination of those three. And of course, money really doesn't go that far in the sense of changing the quality of your life. But I do believe, personally, I believe that there are certain amounts of money that do, you know, a step change in the quality of your life. Either you have certain security because you have that money or you have freedom of your time because you don't have to get a job and get a paycheck every month.

For you, what amount of money made the biggest difference in the quality of your life personally? By the way, Sean and I did a podcast on this actually really recently. The title, it's a really bad title. It's called Like What's It Feel Like to Be Rich? And we talked about this number. My opinion, and we called it like, what's your number? A lot of people say that 10 million is like the number where it's like, all right, I feel set. So that's what a lot of people say.

But we did a whole podcast where we talked about that. I'm very curious to hear what Brian says his number is. I bet you it's lower than 10 million for Brian. But let's see. I don't know if it ever really did. I mean, you know, it's easy to say that I've been doing this for 30 years. You know, I've had a lot of opportunities where, you know, waste management. I remember I was on a fishing trip with some of their exact.

They took me out. And there I was on a boat with two very senior garbage executives. And they offered, you know, $75 to $100 million is what they were talking to buy my little business. And I said, you know, I wouldn't sell it for a billion. The money wasn't ever a motivator. It was building something special, accomplishing the impossible. What amount of money has changed my life? I mean, it's nice to not have to worry about money, but who knows what's around the corner? I mean, are we going to hit another recession at some point? Of course we are. Do we make some bad decisions that really end up hurting the business? I mean, things happen. So I think it's just, I hold on to the fact that I love this business and I love that we're changing lives. I just came out of a meeting,

a regional meeting with our shack shine, our window washing, gutter cleaning, franchise partners and young, hungry, hands-on, hardworking guys that are building this great brand for us. What excites me is the lives they're building. The motivation. that they have and how we through our franchise systems and our organization are helping to change their lives, that's what motivates me. I mean, if I lost every penny tomorrow, I think I'd still be a happy guy who would figure out how to take off again from that point. Well, that is my next question, which is, if I took away this business and you had to start over, you still have all the knowledge, but you weren't allowed to do this same business again, and you were starting from

scratch. So let's pretend you're 21 years old, your bank account is empty. And you can't go do another business just like the one you have now. What do you think you would want to go do? I am a service guy. So if I look at O2E Brands, which our parent company stands for ordinary to exceptional, we're taking ordinary businesses like junk removal and making them exceptional through customer experience. All I've ever done my entire life is service. So whether it's junk removal or whether it's wow one day painting where we paint people's homes in a day or shack shine,

they're all home service businesses. I would pick something with low cost, low barrier to entry, a highly fragmented business like window washing. If I couldn't do any of these brands, I'd find something different. You know, is it in home irrigation or landscaping or lawn care or carpet cleaning? Who knows? But I would find something where I could buy or even borrow some equipment and I'd get out there and I'd start going door to door and selling myself. I'd build a happy brand and I'd start to grow something all over again, slowly but surely. Wonderful. And the last thing is for people who hear this and they are inspired, what often happens is people want to get in touch either to just share, you know, hey, that was amazing. I loved hearing your story. Thank you for sharing. Or they have something that they want to, you know, send you an idea or get feedback on something. Are you open to that? And basically, for the people who are listening to this right now, how should they follow you, how should they get in touch with you? And who do you want actually reaching out to you?

So anyone can reach out to me. You go to any of the social platforms. I think one of my favorite is Instagram because there's not a lot for me to read. But, you know, someone wants to go to at Brian Scudamore and connect with me, send me a message. One of the ways I often encourage people to reach out is I'm such a believer in vision and creating a painted picture that I wrote some articles and put some material together that if anyone ever wants to learn more about that, I'm happy to, you know, send me a note on Instagram just saying, could I see a copy of your painted picture? we'll share our vision for the company and an article about how to create one for yourself. There's nothing in it for me other than just inspiring the world to know that, you know what, you can dream big possibilities.

Great things can happen. And you might just surprise yourself. Awesome. Brian, thanks so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed this myself and I think a lot of other people will too. So I appreciate your time and appreciate you coming on. Well, you know what? I learned so much about the things I've gone through.

and all the reflections. I mean, it's so fun to relive when I do these. So thank you for having me because it's a great trip down memory lane and love sharing wisdom with others. Awesome. All right. That's it. That's the episode.

I think it was awesome. Let me know what you think about this, where I chime in on some of the episodes. If you want me to do more, I will. But I need feedback. My handle is The Sam Parr on Twitter. Let me know. Thank you, Sean, for doing this interview.

This was done on 9-11. So September 11th, 2019, close to two years ago. Good job, Sean. Talk to you guys soon.