My First Million - How To Grow A Small Agency Into A Billion Dollar Company, Shaan's $15M Miss, And More

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Episode 414: Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about friend of the pod, Andrew Wilkinson's journey from starting a small agency to growing a billion dollar company, Shaan's investment miss, the Scallenge, and more. Want to see more MFM? Subscribe to the MFM YouTube channel here. ----- Links: * ApplyBoard * Dribble 2.0 blog post * MetaLab * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (02:15) - The Scallenge (10:00) - Shaan misses $15M on a missed investment (23:15) - Why you need an anti-mentor (32:34) - A love letter to Andrew Wilkinson ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

His company, which is called Tiny, which buys businesses, it's going public. And Andrew owns roughly 71% of the shares, and it's going public at a nearly billion dollar valuation. Who knows what it's going to actually trade at? But if it trades at what they wanted to trade at, that's about $700 to $800 million that Andrew will have from it all starting with a bootstrap agency. And I want to walk through his journey. And I think this is amazing. It's pretty mind-blowing. All right, let's do it.

I'm, um, fancy shirt. Fancy shirt. All I got to say is fancy shirt. I now do this thing where if somebody does anything that's like, I feel like they left the house today feeling good about that or they, you know, they got a haircut. I'm not subtle about it. I'll just, I act like a, like a dog barking.

I'm just like, nice haircut. You got you. You changed your face. The thing that the audience is going to call me out on is I, I couldn't find my other glasses, so I have to wear these glasses. The problem with them, is that asshole Jeffrey Dahmer decided to wear the same ones. So it looks like I'm going to ask you like,

do you want to come back to the apartment to take some peaceful pictures and have some beers? They'll be real nice. Like that he ruined it for me. Some people are into that. I have a meaty one. Another publicly traded company. This is a big deal. And it kind of has not been made a big deal in the media because it's, I guess, not

that big a deal to them. It's a billion dollar company. But basically, our friend, Andrew Wilkins. He said, friend of the pod, a friend of ours. We're going to be with him in Vancouver on February 16th. So if you want to come see us live, he basically, by the way, I got a preferences now that he's a publicly traded company. Everything that I'm going to say, I just Googled it.

This is all just from Google. I didn't ask him anything. And a lot of its guesses, but not all of it. He basically had a company that was publicly traded called Wii commerce. And it was not doing great. It like peaked at like 500 million, went down to 80 million. Anyway, he's doing a reverse takeover. No, sorry, he's doing a merge.

And his company, which is called Tiny, which buys businesses, it's going public. And Andrew owns roughly 71% of the shares, and it's going public at a nearly billion dollar valuation. Who knows what it's going to actually trade at? But if it trades at what they wanted to trade at, that's about $700 to $800 million that Andrew will have from all starting with a bootstrap agency. And I want to walk through his journey. And I think this is amazing. It's pretty mind-blowing.

Okay. By the way, the billion dollars, is this one problem, by the way, is that all of his numbers were in Canadian dollars. There's all CAD instead of USDA. So is this a billion CAD or is this a billion USD? Everything I'm going to say is Canadian. I don't know what the conversion rate is of monopoly money to USD, but like it's somewhere close enough that we're still in the same ballpark.

Yeah. So I think it's a little bit more like 700 million is the number that basically just discounted something like 2030. Yeah. Andrews and CAD. is Canadian. Andrew's in Canada. If you ever really want to inflate something, right?

Like, if you're 5-9, you're 5-11 CAD. So just go CAD and you'll, you know, get that extra, get that little extra that you feel you've been missing your whole life. So, dude, this story, it's really impressive. Andrew comes in the pod and we mess with him. But like, this is, we treat him like he's one of us. What he's pulled off is like not one of us, man. It's pretty epic.

He's actually more like 20 of us, if you had it. He's the Brian Scalibriety of rich guys. You know what I mean? Like this is the scallage. He's the worst billionaire I know, but he's the best millionaire I know. Yeah, for sure. I mean, he's killing it. So listen to this.

So basically, the company that is taking public at this point has, and now this stuff is actually public, it's doing about 150 million in revenue, 50 million in EBITDA. And so here's the story. So 2006, Andrew was. I think 19. He started a web design agency called MetaLab. And MetaLab is like the core of all this. In year one, it had $250,000 in revenue. And basically what he's doing is he's doing like design stuff. So one of his big famous clients was before Slack was Slack, Stuart Butterfield, he, you know, reached out to Andrews said, hey, help me design Slack. And like, I don't know. It's web interfacing,

which frankly, I don't even know entirely the whole scope of that work. But like more than logos, but including logos, I believe. Right. More than logos. That should be their tagline. No, it was definitely- We draw good. We draw good plus more, logos and more. No, it was web interfacing, so it was actually fairly technical. But in year one, it did $250,000 in revenue with a 50% profit margin. In the year 2019, so three years in, it was doing about a couple hundred thousand in profit.

And it doubled for a couple years, and then grew by 30%. percent a year. So 2012, you're six years in, only three million in revenue. Not like crazy out of this league. Like, you know, he's, he's kind of like what people say about us is you're relatable. And whatever people say that, I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to be relatable. I want to be way out of your least. Yeah. They say you're so, you're so authentic. You're so relatable. What I like about you guys is you're not that successful. And you're pretty dumb. So it just feels good. you guys yeah and so that's exactly how I feel so he was relatable so in year six

three million in revenue but after that it grows 30% a year which but which if you add up 30% annual growth by 2020 you're at something like 20 million revenue by 2020 you're in like the 40 or 50 range and the reason why Andrews agency works so well is and I actually think this won't work this doesn't work as much anymore is he's based out of Victoria I don't even I'm such I'm such

I don't even know what state province it is. Like Minnesota, but a little higher, yeah. Yeah. He's in like, yeah, he's in like the Boise of Canada. Yeah, upper Idaho, I guess. Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot? See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess.

But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot, grow better. And so what that means is he's paying those wages, but he's charging Silicon Valley, British Columbia. Ben just corrected me. There you go. British Columbia, whatever that is. I don't know what P-Said is on the Monopoly board, but it's somewhere around there. And so he's charging Silicon Valley prices to like the slacks of the world, so these high-end prices,

but he's paying Canadian wages. So that margin is fat. And so that's why he's able to make all this profit. And he starts taking his profit and he starts launching companies. And it doesn't work so well. He launches one little software company. I forget what it was called, flow, I think. It was basically like an Asana competitor. Does it work out? He's like, I invested too much money. He goes, fuck this. What if I just buy a company? He reads a book on Warren Buffett and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could do this.

And that's his new hero. He turns into a Buffett guy and he starts buying businesses. And he buys a couple that are doing okay. But then he buys one that becomes like the crown jewel of this whole business. So this whole thing tiny, I think there's two crown jewels. There's Meta Lab, which we can guess is doing 40 or 50 million in revenue, 20 million in profit. That's the cash flow engine of this whole thing of being able to buy these companies. Then he buys Dribble, which is basically like GitHub for designers. So designers go to

this website and they upload their portfolios. Other people can share your portfolio. You send it to employers. They can comment. You get inspiration. Whatever. Now, I don't have all the details on this, but if I had to guess, Dribble was launched by two founders who weren't very business savvy and it had a lot of traffic, but they're like, dude, we don't know how to like make money off this. And Andrew buys it from them. I imagine, if I had a guess, I bet you he buys it for five to ten million dollars. Turns this thing into a behemoth. Now it's making many tens of millions of dollars. If I had to guess, it's worth $200 million or higher. This is just pure guess. And that becomes a crown jewel of this company, tiny. And so now he's got these two agencies or a meta lab and

dribble. And then he's also has now, what do they own, like 15 other companies. And he's taking it public. And throughout this whole period, he's bootstrapping this thing. So MetaLab is the one that's paying for everything. He hires the CEO to run MetaLab. And because of that, he basically owns like 90% of Meta Lab. And now he owns, what did I say? 70% of these tiny shares. And then his other partner owns like 10%. So him and Chris is his partner own 80% of this publicly traded company that's hoping to go public in the billion dollar range. This is just a crazy fascinating story. And I can't believe he's pulled this off. Yeah, I got to be careful what I say because I invested in Tiny recently when it was private. So I kind of know more of the numbers, but I don't know

what's public versus what was private. Am I in the ballpark of everything? Yeah, I think you're in the ballpark. I think maybe the dribble valuation may be a little bit high. But you're right that those two things make up like, you know, it's like, I guess here's my, here's where this kind of broke for me and this is maybe not that interesting. Just my personal framework. Broke in a good way.

In a good way, which was, I thought he'd been around doing this for way longer. It was actually 2016 when he started like buying other companies. And that's not that long ago. We met him in, I don't know, I met him in, I want to say, 2020.

you know, that's only four years in and it was, but I had known about him. He was like a personality. Yeah, exactly. He always had this like cool looking avatar. His pictures always looked cool. He was like a designer. So his hair was always slicked back.

And he had this like, we all looked like dorks. He was like kind of good looking in his pictures and stuff like that. Yeah, just shows what a good head of hair can do for you. And, you know, I think that's the real takeaway.

Number one. Number two, number two, this segment is brought to you by hymns. Number three. So I think that that was the, first thing, which was, wow, this was actually built up in a relatively, like, on one hand, it's a long period of time because he's been started Meta Lab a long time ago. So that part,

you got to give credit for that, oh, out, 2006, and then he grinded it out year after year, building the service business up. But on the other hand, the portfolio side of things was relatively new. So I thought that was really interesting. The second thing, I assumed that the portfolio was a lot more flatter, a lot more parody. So maybe like there were, you know, five to 10 companies, all of sort of equal value pitching in each one like, you know, five to 10 percent of the overall value of the pie. And that's how you get like, you know, 70 percent or something like that. And the rest is Meta Lab. And in fact, it was kind of like a venture portfolio in a way where a couple of the companies were really the standout ones that were driving most of the value.

And I think for them, it was actually three. There was the one they took it. They originally took public. So we commerce. which is basically their Shopify apps roll up. So the Shopify app roll up, I think, was one winner, dribble is another winner, and Meta Labs another winner. And to me, everything else is nice, but now that those are such big winners, that they make up so much revenue and so much EBITA

that the others are almost like rounding errors at the moment. That's a little bit harsh, I would say, but maybe that's a little too harsh, but just comparatively, it wasn't like this portfolio of a dozen equally sized companies. which maybe was, I never should have assumed that in the first place. But when you hear somebody's doing a portfolio, you sort of think, okay, it's going to be sort of more smoothly distributed out.

But it was actually a little bit more concentrated in a few key, key winners that just really kept compounding at a high rate. And so, yeah, so I think that's amazing. I think what he's done is amazing. Like to build this level of a sort of empire in this short of amount of time is pretty awesome. And the biggest thing is I love that he did it his way. Like there really wasn't anybody doing exactly what he was doing. Of course, there's private equity, right?

But he wasn't doing it like private equity because he wasn't looking to flip. He's looking to buy and hold. So then you have sort of, okay, okay, who's doing permanent equity? Who's doing a buy and hold strategy? Okay, there's some people doing it, but they all raised money. He used his own company's profits to do it. So that's pretty dope. And then he branded it and was more public about it versus these kind of

more under the radar. It's like, oh, you're part of like maple oak capital. What is that? I go to your website. It's got two lines. It just says we acquire software companies. And it's like, okay, I don't know what this means. Whereas he built kind of like a sexy brand out of it. So I think there was a bunch of things he did that were pretty cool. Like even his term sheet. He's like, oh, I read that Warren Buffett basically, you know, we'll meet a company, understand it and then write a one sheet, a one page, you know, like term sheet for them to just, you know, are they going to take this deal or not? He doesn't do this like, complicated lawyer process. If he can buy a billion dollar company with a one or two pager,

then I should be able to buy this $3 million company with a one pager. And so he took, you know, he took that approach. I think did a good job branding what he was doing along the way. Yeah. And so here's a few more takeaways. And then I want to hear yours if you have any extra ones. The first is that you said that he did this quickly. Yeah, kind of. But he also did it really slowly. The acquisitions part only. Yeah. The acquisition part. But he basically started in 2006. And then he didn't really hit his stride until 2016. So that's 10 years of having an agency. Now, he didn't run the agency the whole time. He ran it for a little while. And then he also hired people. And so I'm, I'm sure he was managing it to some extent. But slow is good in some cases. And the

second thing is that he didn't raise money for an agency. And because of that, he had so much freedom. The second you raise money, your cap table is one of the few things that you can't reverse or it's really hard. And he didn't raise money for a company that MetaLab should not have raised money and it did not raise money. And because of that, he was able to use the profits to invest in shit versus if you raise money, they're like, no, don't use those profits to do other things. Reinvest them and make this thing bigger. The next thing is financial maneuvering. Like, you know, I joke that I like don't know anything about finances. It's kind of like his like thing. I think he's built that skill up over time, right? Didn't know it initially. But, but yeah, he can create a lot

of value. A lot of people do this now. They can create a lot of value by increasing their financial IQ. Like, taking WeCommerce public via SPAC in 2020 when the timing was perfect required some combination of being prepared with a good business. Secondly, you know, identifying the timing and saying now is the time go aggressively. And third, it's like just having the financial IQ to go with the balls to be able to actually go pull something like that off. 100%. The next thing is where you live. it can actually matter a lot. Now, I think that this gap of Silicon Valley wages and Victoria Canada wages might be closed a little bit. It's closer, at least than it was before. That gap is

smaller, but this still exists in other places. I know I have friends that have built pretty big businesses are building them right now and they're using Indian talent versus American talent, and they're getting great products. That's what you do with this podcast. Guilty. And then the final thing is hiring and negotiating. The way he negotiated with his CEOs and kept them happy while also retaining equity. So I don't know like how he pays people. I imagine he pays them with just tons of cash. So that's like you're like, well, that's easy. You just pay overpay people. But anyway, it's still like really impressive how he's able to negotiate and hire and manage people. I've heard from

a bunch of his CEOs where they're like, when things are going fine, I don't ever hear from them. And I love that. And then of course, I imagine there's times when things are going fine. He's like, All right, dude, come on. We got to push this a little harder. But he's done a really good job of hiring. And anyway, this whole thing that he's pulled off, I messaged him. And I was like, this sounds like an insult. Yeah, we got to clap.

We'll clap for him. I was like, dude, this sounds like an insult. But do you ever just sit with like a shit eating grin and just laugh and like a little evil laugh? I pulled off this caper because that's kind of what it feels like. because he makes it look easy. And of course, it's never easy. There's like, there's times where he'll message me. He's like, dude, I feel like I'm in the dumps or I feel overwhelmed.

He's human. But he's done a really good job of doing it his way almost to the point where I'm like, dude, you got to be smirking right now. Like, it's that feeling like when you get successful and you think of all your ex-girlfriends who like made fun of you. It's like, you, you, fuck. Yeah. Oh, me only.

That thing. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that thing. No, no, no, I got you, bro. Don't, don't worry. You don't like, you know, like that shell. You know that that shelf you have with like the names of all your enemies marked on like champagne bottles? You know like when you pop that cork off whenever you like to rub it.

Take a lock of their hair and you just set it in a fire with the lighters. Yeah. Dude, what are you talking about? But he's pulled it off. Let me let me also say another thing. You know that there are people that are masters of engineering, you know, people that are, you know, fantastic leaders. But you know, I'm the dawn of storytelling. And Andrew is a great storyteller.

So people should go read his dribble 2.0 blog post. It's on Medium. So just Google dribble 2.0, Andrew Wilkinson. And here, okay, Sam, how do most people announce an acquisition? Go. Just give me your generic thing. Yeah. It's like, we're so brad.

We are so press release. We're so pleased. They built a really nice business and we're happy to be stewards of this business. And we're really looking forward to the future. and then like the sellers like, you know, we were looking for a nice home for dribble. And this is a perfect partner and we're excited for the future. Just nonsense.

Absolute, absolute soulless drivel. So here's what he did and said. So here's, I'm just going to read a little snippet of this because I think people should pick up on the storytelling to. I think that helps. So he goes,

when I first started Meta Lab, Dan Cedarholm was my hero. A great opening line. A great, because I don't know who this guy is. And now I'm like, why is this person your hero? He goes, this bulletproof web was the first book I read.

I used to reverse engineer his style sheets on simple bits to learn his CSS tricks. Anything he did, I did. And I drove my front end developers nuts trying to get them to implement every little one pixel detail that I learned from Dan. So already you're like, okay, this is interesting. He's basically setting the context of like, that's the guy who started dribble. And he's like, it's not just I bought dribble and I'm pleased to, you know, raise prices in six months. He's like, you know, I, I've admired this guy. This guy's my hero.

I learned from him. And so when he, so let me keep going. So he goes, I remember meeting another favorite designer, Dave, Dave Shea had a conference back in 2008. He mentioned that he knew Dan on my floor, my jaw hit the floor. Wait, what? The CSS drop shadows. The cork logo.

He's the best. What's he like? I was gushing. Blah, blah, blah. I wasn't just a fan boy. I was his web standards fan boy. Blah, blah, blah. then he keeps going and he goes one of the projects that Dan did was dribble which he

co-founded with whoever uh i had used it blah blah blah which is why i'm excited i'm saying excited to share the big news right so just that little paragraph of setup it draws you in in a way that like he could have just done a standard boring i roll press release and instead he decided to do it this way and then he he talks about kind of like that it wasn't just like therefore we've acquired it and it's done he's like i was bugging them and bugging him I kept emailing them every month, asking them if they would let me in. He's like this September, my moxie finally paid off. He emailed me saying they would think they might do it.

They cared about these three things. I wouldn't mess it up. I have a long term view and I want them to stay involved and own a piece of the business. We shook hands and made a deal. Blah, blah, blah. And then he tells the rest of the, you know, then he does the standard stuff about we're excited. It's going to be great. And I just thought that was just a way better way of doing it than the average person would do it.

And if you add up a lot of doing things. better than the average person would do it, you end up with this type of exceptional outcome. Dude, it's just great, man. I have a lot of respect from him. There's always, like, this little bit of envy in me when I talk to Andrew because he's my friend and I consider us peers. And then he'll make jokes about, like, what he's doing on the weekend. And then, like, oh, that's sick.

And then, but I'm proud of him. I feel a lot of pride, like, on his, quote kind of for him. And I'm very happy that he's pulled this off. And I think it's really impressive. And I think that it's badass that people are, that there are people that are bold enough to do things their way, regardless of what the nerds invests from Stanford tell you the way you should do it.

And I imagine that along the way, he got a lot of flack, making fun of him from being in Canada, for not raising money for buying these little, quote, little things. And I guess that's the fucking name of the company, tiny. But he just like pulled it off. And I appreciate that gumption and I appreciate that boldness. And I find it inspiring. And I'm happy that like we have them in our life.

So that's my little love note to Andrew. Yeah. Good job. Love letter to Andrew Wilkinson. Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to, we're going to Canada. We're going to be there February 16th.

And Andrew, if you're listening to this, you want to fly us up there, private. That's cool. If you want to celebrate. We know how much money you have now. Yeah. Look, let's celebrate. How does one friend invite another over?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's celebrate by flying private together, except we'll be like you don't have to be there. And Sean and I will each be in different planes. Yeah. So. Can we have an allowance? Can he just send a?

A card with just an allowance. That would be tight. Anyway, that's my breakdown of tiny. He deserved it. Dude, I got roasted so badly by my daughter last night. I was like, oh, man, this is... Your four-year-old daughter roasted you so badly, nice. Three, three years old.

We play, so she can't play many games. We play rock paper, scissors, but she always throws scissors. So that's, like, you know, fun for her, not for me. She plays hide-and-seek, always hides in the same spot. There's like, kids do this. They just like play the game, but they don't know how to play. And then she, so I taught her, I spy. I was like, oh, here's a game we could play in the car.

I spy. And so she loves I spy. So I'm like, I spy something green. She's like, is it the tree? I'm like, how'd you get it? It's always the tree. That's right. And she goes, I spy something yellow.

And I'm like, looking around the house. I'm like, what is it? I don't see anything yellow. She goes, your teeth. Ah. And she's not aware that that's the sickest burn that anybody's done to any. Like, anybody? Hey, I spy an asshole.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, wow, that is just like natural. That's a natural burn. That's good. Can I tell you about something cool that you probably know about and I saw it and I can't stop thinking about it? Have you heard of the Scallenge? I don't know about this.

Tell me about this. All right. This is, you know, I don't pay attention to sports. This is your league. So, you know, Brian is Brian? Oh, oh, Scalabrini. Okay. I didn't know he called it the Scallenge.

That's a good name. Well, explain who he is. People don't know probably. So Brian Scalabrini, he played for the Celtics. He's like a redhead. He's six, nine. He's huge. But I think-

He looks like Will Farrell, but actually was an NBA player. Yeah, so easy to make fun of. But I think he was like okay, right? Or was he always kind of bad. Yeah, he was okay. But then like, it was okay, but he was, he didn't take himself too seriously. And over time, you know, like he had kind of a few years where he actually played. But most of his career, he's on the bench as a scrub.

And, uh, yeah, yeah, Barshaps, his. His nickname, Kobe was the black mamba. He started calling himself the white bamba. And so, you know, he was a goofy dude who was basically a bench warmer for like the last, whatever, seven years of his career. But was a great, you know, great locker room presence and, you know, a warm body. So people kept him around. And I think at one point he called himself.

I don't know if it was a joke or what, the worst player in the NBA. Obviously it was a joke. But anyway, after he retired. So I guess he retired from the NBA somewhat recently-ish. But he's still six, nine, an athletic and whatever. or athletic for, you know, he's a basketball player, but compared to the other guys, he wasn't like that athletic. But he starts playing rec leagues.

And like he would score, you know, rec leagues like at the YMCA and on playgrounds. And he scores like 60 points a game, you know, just crushing these guys. And he doesn't like brag about it too much. But then like online at one point he mentions like, yeah, I got 60 points less than my reclis. And then just people on line to start chirping at him hard.

And they're like, dude, you suck. I could beat you. Or you know, I don't even know how you made it in the NBA. You know, yada, yada, yada. They start chirping at them. And he goes, wait a minute, no, I may be suck compared to Derek Rose, but I don't suck compared to any of you guys. And so he starts doing this tour where he goes to like all these basketball courts. He goes, I want to go to the hoodest of the hood basketball court.

I want to go to the best YMCA. I'll go all around the country. And he starts doing this. And he crushes these guys. And he challenges people. He says, come play me one on one. Do you think I suck? Come play me one on one.

Yeah. And he destroys them. And he's like, I'm not even doing this for social media, but some people recorded a couple of these things. And he would beat them like 10 nothing. He was like, I let him get one point just to figure out what they're going to do, but I just destroy these guys. And he's got this awesome quote that he goes,

he said this to like one of the kids. It was like an 18-year-old kid who like plays against him, and he crushes this kid. He goes, let's get something straight. I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me. And I thought, I read that. And I go, this is the greatest thing I've ever heard. This is awesome.

It's such a good story. And he called it the Scallenge. And I thought it was so good. It just shows, you know, there's levels to greatness. Yeah, there's levels to this. I think is the perfect, the perfect takeaway from that. And also, he's hilarious. He is so good.

I don't know if you remember this, by the way. When we did our camp MFM getaway, the guy who came to train us, he trains like a bunch of NBA stars. So he trains Kyrie Irving. He's changed Trey Young. And so he was thinking. and his wife is in the WMBA. And she's like one of the best players in the WMBA. We're talking about the WMBA and how like they're,

you know, the players are awesome, but they also don't get like high viewership. It's like not like the league doesn't do that well. It's kind of like subsidized by the NBA. It kind of loses money. But, you know, it's good overall for the sport for there to be a women's league.

And so we were like, yeah, we had kind of an impromptu brainstorm of like, the thing everyone says, which is can I beat her up? You know, like it's what everyone says. Not beat her up, just beat her basketball. That's what happens with like,

when a bunch of drunk idiots at Buffalo Wild Wings are watching like Rose Nama Eunice and like these female UFC fighters, everyone thinks it. Can I kick her ass? Yeah, what would happen if I fought her? Yeah, exactly. So basically we did a brainstorm of like,

what would you do to get ratings up or to like, if you were to launch a different women's league, like how would you get people interested? Because the problem is, I think I saw this crazy TikTok. It was like some team, whoever won the championship last year, I have no idea. maybe it's like the Atlanta dream or something like that.

And they came home to do their parade in the city. And it literally just looked like, you know, if I walk to my bus stop here and there's like three people kind of loitering around, there's like a bum. And then, you know, that was the parade. There was nobody there for the parade. And the team was going down on the bus. And there was just like, other people were like, why is this, what is this? Why is this bus here? What do you guys play a sport?

I didn't really realize that. So there's a TikTok that went viral making fun of it. And yeah, the idea that that we all landed on was basically the three or four or five best players should basically go on tour like it's the N1 mixtape tour and go city to city and challenge, you know, any five, you know, go play pickup with dudes at any of these and live stream that or like cut that into clips of them basically punking, punking guys. Yeah, like beating guys who think they could beat them and, you know, put some respect on their name. So that was kind of the marketing idea. But if the CMO of the WBA is listening, you're welcome. Dude, I love these challenges. There was another one where, like, when you're watching running, running is not a popular sport,

but I love it. It's my favorite sport to watch next to the UFC. And people were like, they're not that, they're like a two-hour marathon. Do you remember that when the guy Elud Kilukchokin? He ran two hours. And he just looks so smooth. He looks closer to an animal than he does a human. Like his body is just like.

Like he just, you know, running 100 miles a week for probably 20 years. He's just like his, you look at his calves and you're like, I can't believe that you and I are like the same. We're both humans. It's not even fair. He looks graceful when he runs. He looks beautiful. And he doesn't look that fast. And so they put a treadmill at the same speed.

And they go, here's here's. Because he's doing it with ease. He's doing it with ease. And he does it for two hours. And they go, see if you can do this for 15 seconds. And they have this treadmill. And like, people can't do it for just 20 seconds. They can't even run that speed.

It's basically like four minutes and 30 seconds a mile, which is like, I don't know, would that be like 60 miles an hour? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a sprint. And it's a sprint for most people. And it was really funny. No one can keep up with it. So I love these. Like that's actually one of the tenets of making content viral, which is it made, you have to make something made to stick. And you can make it stick by comparing it to real tangible things that everyone can understand. And when you put one of these treadmills at that speed, you're like, oh, I can't keep up with that for 10 seconds, let alone two hours. Totally, totally. Somebody said this about the Olympics. They go, the Olympics, there should be one civilian in every event. Just a normal fit guy from the gym. And it should just be like, just as a baseline comparison, here's the average person. And here's even like an above average person.

And here's the Olympians. Like let them all just let them line up in lane 11 and see what happens. Dude, I would love that. I would love that. I have, I've got a big, meaty topic. What do you have? All right. So I, this is a story of a multi-million, easily multi-million.

And type of in the chat, do the calculation, how much I lost doing this. Let's see, I would have invested at a company at $5 million, and it's now a $3 billion-ish company. So, you know, I basically turned, I missed out on a chance to probably turn something like 25K into tens of millions of dollars. Yeah. Okay. So here's what happened.

But there's kind of some, some interesting things baked into this. So it's not just, oh, I missed it, big deal. Everybody misses, misses opportunities. This is an interesting one. So back in 2015, which is kind of when we met,

I was not a angel investor. But I liked the idea. I thought it sounded cool. I was a founder of a company. And I was making, I think, $160,000 a year. So $160 grand a year. Back then, you told,

me you're making 160 and I was like, oh, you're the richest person I know. I remember you told me you're making $150,000. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. I remember I was like, man, find a, find somebody who looks at me the way Sam looks at me right now, the way that Sam looks at my pay stuff. And so, so yeah, I was making 160 year, but in, in California, you know, you're kind of after taxes, now you're at like 110, you're netting, you know, and then you pay for life. It's pretty expensive, blah, blah, blah. You don't save much. So I didn't have much. So I didn't have much of, a bankroll. But I like the idea of being an angel investor. And people, because our office was so dope, when a founder would come, they would think that I'm a lot richer than I was, but just because

our office was so fancy, which was only fancy because our main investor owned the building and decked it out for himself. And like, that's why the office was so fancy. It had nothing to do with me. So anyways, I, um, I meet this kid. We're building a product and I meet this kid. He's 13 years old. and he uses our app every day. Our app was like a clubhouse type of app. He used to use it every day after school. Come home, use the app. And he's hanging out in the Silicon Valley chat rooms.

And we're like, dude, you should be like going and go try to have a kiss. Like, you know, that should be your mission, not like sitting in on this room talking about raising your series A. And so two things happen. One, he's like, dude, I want to come work with you guys. We're like, dude, you're in middle school. Like, I can't, your parents are going to kill me. I can't help you work for us. I go, here's what you're.

can do. He goes, I want to be a scout for you. I said, okay, go ahead. Kid, be a scout for me. He goes, he goes, what do you want me to do? I go, every week, I want you to just send me a company that you think is awesome and that you think I should invest in and just write why you think I should invest and send me the company. Now, I have zero hope or really even zero plan to read this email at the time. I'm just basically giving this kid a homework assignment. I'm like, yeah, this will help you think. And most likely this is going to be too much work for you. You might do it once. You might do it once. You might do. do it twice, but you're going to give up by the third time, for sure. So I give him this homework

assignment. The very first company he sends me is a company called a plyboard. And so here's this was the second, this is sorry, this is the second one. Hey, Sean, here's a second company I want to introduce, a pli board, what they do. They help international students find the right university for themselves and apply on their behalf. They have 11 schools contracted to pay them a commission for a student that signs up, and they have 14 more schools in the funnel. They, They have over 1,500 students signed up, 160,000 Facebook likes, and this is all with $10 in paid marketing. So it's actually pretty interesting, right?

Like, that's actually a kind of a really good analysis. And that's, you know, simple, two lines. So I'm like, wow, this kid's 13. He's like, you know, this is a good find and he's explained it well. He goes, why you should invest? Now, this is where he got a little off, but that's okay. He goes, they started four years ago with offline consulting and then pivoted into a software business.

They know the space well. They have four co-founders. They have a very, very diverse skill set, blah, blah, blah. They have an algorithm, something, something. And he says, their customer acquisition costs only a few dollars. The LTV is thousands, so they have sustainable growth. He goes, I'm trying to correct my shots so that one day I can hit the bullseye for you. If you have any feedback on the company, I would love to hear it.

Because the first one, I didn't even respond. I said, like, this is bad. So this is his second one. And I'm like, you know what? This is actually pretty good. I'm going to take this meeting. So Guy is in San Francisco. he comes to my office, love him.

Super charming. This guy, Martin. You've probably met, like, a bunch of these guys who are like, there's something that's really just like, I don't know, charismatic or charming about dudes from like, you know, Israel or something like that. Anyone who's like, Israel, Persian, Turkey. There's like, it's like, there's just so goddamn charming.

Like, they're just dripping with sauce. And what's, what's Cliff's company? Effortless. What's our buddy Cliff? Cliff, W. Cliff, uh, Cliff, uh, Whitesman. Yeah, the audio one. I think he's

Middle Eastern. I met him when he was just starting. And I was like, he had, oh, he's Israeli, actually. He had that same vibe. And in the office, I go, what's interesting about you or something? And he goes, I can do a backflip. I go, all right, well, good that chair over. Best friends. Yeah. I said, all right, well, move that chair over. There's enough room here. Go, do it. And he did a backflip in the middle of my office.

And his company now, Speechify, it's in the unicorn territory. And I didn't invest in it. But like he had that same charisma when he came to my office. He lit up the room. I should have, I should have known better. Yeah, he's got amazing energy. And so, yeah, this is the. So he, so I meet this guy.

He's got the Israeli swag. I'm loving it. And then again, I have never, at this point, I've never angel vest in a company. But I'm like, this seems like a great idea. And what they're, why this is a great idea? for people to know, it's kind of an effed up part of the system, which is colleges in the U.S. just have like surge pricing for international students. So it's basically like if I'm a state resident, I get like cheaper tuition at state schools.

Okay, but if I'm a U.S. resident, I pay, you know, what I thought is full price. So maybe I'll pay 25K to go to school at this place. But an international student will have to pay two or three times more than that. So they'll pay 50 to 75,000 for the same exact thing. they just charge them more. It's kind of insane. I don't really know even how they are able to justify this, but they do.

And so what you remember in San Francisco University? Was that what it called University of San Francisco? I dated a girl that had ties there. And I remember walking around campus and was only Chinese students. And it's not even good schools. Like, San Francisco or USF or whatever,

it's not even that good of a school. And so it's actually, it's actually a bit of a trick. It's like international students just want to come to America. they can't differentiate between, you know, University of Utah and, you know, Columbia or whatever, like these different schools, they don't know the lay of the land that well. They don't know that the school's in the middle of nowhere. They don't know that it's not actually considered that prestigious or whatever it is.

It's just expensive. So it's actually a lot of these other schools that really take advantage of this and have a huge percentage of their population coming from international, which makes up a disproportionate amount of revenue. So that's kind of like why the schools were interested. So they went to him and they were like, yo, we'll get. give you $3,000 if you can get somebody to sign up. And he's like, $3,000. Oh, that's pretty good. And I think now they take a lot more than I think now they take, you know, 10% or

something of the of the overall tuition. So it's gone up since then. But anyways, so he pitches and I'm like, dude, I just get, yeah, I get caught up. I like the idea. I love this guy's personality. I'm like, I'm in. He's like, you're in? I'm in.

He said, fantastic. I haven't really talked to anybody else yet. So I don't know all the round details. I said, brother. I'm in. And he's like, all right, love it. You're the first guy I've been in Silicon Valley. You're my champion on this.

And I thought, I'm the first guy he's been. Oh, wait, hold on. I didn't really want to be the first guy in. Like, you know, first at the dance floor is kind of like not exactly the position to be in. So then he goes on tour, he starts pitching people. And he starts coming back to me with, and he's a nice dude. He's an honest guy. He's, trust me.

He says, man, they're saying no because of this. And I'm like, oh, these guys are idiots. Don't worry about them. They don't get it. Next one. They came back. They said no because of this. And by the third one, I'm like, maybe I should have been saying no.

So I start to doubt my conviction in this thing. But I'm still like, brother, I told you I'm in. So I'm in. And anyways, it takes them a little time. Dude, if you, if the end of the story is you backed out on him and you were calling him brother. I wasn't calling him brother. In fact, I think he was calling me brother because that was like, you know, it's like the Khabib thing where they just say brother a lot. And you just knifed him in the back.

Well, I did actually knife from the back. I don't know, I don't know exactly what I don't know, I don't remember exactly how played out, but I definitely, uh, wussed out. So, so basically takes him a little time to raise the round. He eventually does get the round together. And I'm supposed to write a 25k check, not even like some crazy amount of money, but to me at that time, that was like, it's like, all right, well, that's kind of like my entire like savings for this year is going to go to this one

random Israeli guys company. All right. Uh, you know, I, I, I, I, I could lose this, but I would really hate to lose this. And I start thinking about, you know, am I ready for this? I don't know. And so I kind of just, I don't back out, but I don't, from what I remember, I didn't back out, but I didn't reach back out either.

And so I think he probably emailed me once. I was like, yeah, okay, let me know when it's time. And then he probably emailed me like three or four weeks later. It was like, oh, it's time. And I just like didn't reply to that thing. And I don't think anything really happened. But anyways, long story short, I don't invest. fast forward, you know, five years, I get an email from that same kid, Sirush.

And Sirush is like, hey, remember this email? Yeah, a plywood's a unicorn now. Huh. And, you know, well, what do you know? Curious what you think about that. And I was like, I think I was an idiot. And I think I was a total idiot. And there's actually a few kind of like takeaways in this for me.

So the few takeaways are one, Don't be a wuss. If you say you're going to do something, just do it. That's just a lesson for myself. And I think, you know, for most people, yourself included, that's, that's rarely a problem. For me, that's more of a problem. Second, I actually think I was correct that I was not ready to be angel investing at the time. And so I should have either-

You could have done like a $5,000 check. Yes, exactly. So what I should have done is I should have said, all right, look, I don't have the bank roll to place 20 bets, which is kind of what you'll need. You need 20 to 30 bets for, you know, Angel investing to work. And so it's like, you know, I don't, I don't realistically, I do not have the bank roll to do this, but that's okay. That doesn't mean I don't do what I want.

It means I got to be resourceful and find a way. So either let me come in out of a smaller check size that make, it's my version of, you know, if an angel investor writes 25K when they have $5 million, then I need to write the proportional check for me and see what happens. Or I should have gone to somebody and said, hey, I actually found this deal. I think it's really good. You have the money, which is what I did later with Lambda school.

It was like, hey, I like this company. They haven't really raised much money yet. It's not proven, but I think it's worth a shot. And I convinced somebody else to write the check and give me some carry. So that's really what I should have done to make this happen. But at the time,

my fear overrode my, like, you know, not even ego. The fear overrode my, like, ability to think like from, just think like with a clear head. say, okay, well, sounds like there's just a little obstacle here, and let's figure out how we're

going to get around it. A lot of people are embarrassed. There's a like, well, can I do $5,000? Like, I remember doing a deal. I did a deal for $15,000 or $25,000 when I didn't have a lot of money. Thankfully, on paper, it's turned into a bit. But I remember thinking, like, I want to ask them if I could do $5K, but I don't want to look like a punk. Right. Yeah. So, so I think I should have found a way. And that's, I think, has been a common theme in my life, which is like a lot of good opportunities come my way. And I say, I don't have the time. I don't have the money. I don't have the skill.

I don't have whatever. And I rule it out. Even though objectively, I'm like, this is a great opportunity. And the real answer is find a way to get the time or find somebody who does have the time. Finding a way to get the money or find somebody who has the money to help you out, right? Like, do one of those things to get there. And this is not like a small thing. Like, just doing the difference in doing that and not doing that would have been.

Again, tens of millions of dollars in this case, in the result case where it worked out. So that's one takeaway. The second is this guy, Sirouche is like now become a general strategy for me, which is I always want to have like, I don't know, four or five people who are kind of like way, it's like an anti-mentor or like, you know, it's a mentee or something like that, right? It's like, I want to have people that are young, hungry, and ignorant and naive, but that's an asset for them because they're young and hungry, I want to have them more in my orbit.

And I need to find some excuse to have them in my orbit and hang out with them and hear what they think is interesting and meet their friends and whatever. Like that is, you know, I think that is an actual strategy that most people miss out on. Everybody wants to sort of climb up. They're like, oh,

how do I meet the person who's done more than me or is more successful to me, has more money than me, whatever. And they're focused constantly on like reaching up and trying to like pull themselves up. And instead, I found so much benefit out of just having a crew, a small crew of like 18 to 21-year-olds that I'm like, okay, you guys just think differently than me. You're worried about different things and you're excited about different things than me. How do I have that in my life in some way? And so that's actually become a more core strategy.

Do you do anything like that? Yeah. So listen to this. So we had this kid. By the way, thank you for not making like an Epstein joke. I felt like I was treading. I was like, what you need is like 14-year-old. dudes you hang out with all the time.

It's like, yeah. No, I, so I'm 33. I'm just now hitting the age where I'm no longer the youngest guy in the room. And I'm just hitting the age where I've got 15 years or so of experience. And I'm seeing younger people. And I'm like, oh, you're full of energy. You're going to do something, but you're making an air here. And I'm just going to let you, I'm just going to watch you make that air because it's good for you.

I'm just now getting to the point where I'm able to be a little wise. And I'm seeing the importance of surrounding ourselves with young people. Here's an example. A year ago, Sean and I did this thing where we offered $5,000 to someone who made a TikTok video from our podcast and shared it. One kid in particular, his name was Michael. At the time, he made these videos that reached tens of millions of people for us. And we gave him the five grand. And I went to email him.

And I was like, dude, you should do this full time. And I asked him what his email. And it was like, you know, Michael at University of Michigan. dot edu. And I was like, wait, who are you? He goes, yeah, I just recorded this in my dorm room. I'm like, oh, you're going to be, you're, you're on to something. You're going to be a superstar.

Just start, turn this into a company. He turns into a company, I guess our 5K was this first money. He makes tens of thousands of dollars a month, eventually sells it to morning brew. Michael, what's Michael's last name? I don't even know. Sican. Sican. Yeah.

And he comes over to my house and uses this studio. And I just, he'll mean, Sarah will be in the kitchen. And I'll just, I go, Mike, come. out to the kitchen, have a coffee with me. And me and Sarah won't say a word and we'll just let him talk. And I'm just like, I'm just here to, because he's 22 maybe. I'm like, I'm just, I'm like, come to the kitchen, have some chocolate milk. Yeah.

You want some hot cocoa? What a lollipot? Yeah. Sit on my lap too while you're at it. And like, he just talks. And about 60% of the stuff that he says is nonsense. 40%. Absolute nonsense.

Not just him. Anybody who fits this category, you have to. literally just immediately throw away 60% of the words. But what I say to him, I go, Michael, Michael, most of what you're saying is bullshit. And I think you might know it. But look, here's the deal. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Keep on swinging. You'll hit a home run soon because you're swinging. You're in the game. And I appreciate that about you. And if you ever want to know what you're saying is bullshit, just ask me and I'll tell you. But I'm not going to call you out. I'm going to let you get away with it all because I like,

I like this gumshut. And he tweeted something the other day that was hilarious. He tweeted, got bad news. just got back from the chiropractor. They said the chip of my shoulders permanent. How funny is that? And I was like, this is why you're going to make something of yourself. Now, you might ruin it by saying dub stuff and you're going to cost yourself a whole lot of money

and you're going to have a lot of headache throughout the years until you learn to be calmer. But you know he was feeling good about that line too when he tweeted it. Oh, he was feeling so good. But I appreciate that this is a young kid. So he moved to Austin. I invite him over all the time. And I go, just talk, man. Just talk.

I want to hear what you got to say. And he's telling me like, and I'm just like learning about what like the younger generation feels about this and that. And he's like, he's like, he has a birthday party coming up on Saturday. And we're taking some like new weird version of Uber. I don't even know what it is like a party bus company.

I don't even know what it is. But he's like, this is what we're all using. I was like, all right, cool, I'm in. I just want to experience this stuff. So yes, long story short,

I totally, I am experiencing this where I have young people around me. Sounds weird, but let's get past that. No, the Youngblood strategy is a real strategy. And actually, this is my reminder to myself.

I need to refresh my young bloods are now like 24 to 25 and rich. They like made it. Like, okay, so Michael is one example. The other guys who set up our initial studios here and then created that agency clipped, they do over a million dollars a year revenue off their,

off their thing. And now their content is going, going nuts. Their short form videos are going nuts, like millions of views. And I had to like reprimand Henry all the time. I was like, hey, Henry, just so you know, you shouldn't talk like this when you're in this meeting or something. And then eventually I was like, you know, I'm not going to give my advice.

I'm just going to let them learn. But I saw the same thing where I'm like, you're making a bunch of mistakes, but you're taking a ton of swings. You're going to, you're going to hit. The kid I talked about Seroosh probably has more money than me now from crypto. The guy has made an absolute killing in crypto over the last few years. And so done, done incredibly well. the guy who was my intern to start this podcast, Ishaan who was just like doing the video editing and like created the initial brand name and all that stuff.

And didn't he like invest all of his money into like a short stock, a short position on a penny stock? No, not a short one. He went all in. He took basically he had like a hundred grand saved up after a couple of years of working for me. And then for a friend I introduced him to. And he took the hundred grand and he just bought. There was a stock that got delisted on a stock exchange.

So all the shareholders were like, damn it, what do we do with the stock? We can't trade anymore. It's like illiquid. And so he bought it all for like 10 cents on the dollar being like, I don't know, I still believe. And then that ran up to be worth a few million dollars. His 100K basically turned into like a two to five million dollar steak at that time. Now I think it's gone down a little bit.

But there's articles about him in the Australian post or whatever now. And I'm like, dude, this is crazy. And another one, Steve Bartlett, I hired Steve. Steve when he was 18, 19 years old, maybe. Maybe that's a little, maybe he's 20 at the time. And I was like, this guy, again, just dripping with swag. And I was like, I just want to be around this guy. This guy's like cool.

I don't know. He wears like rings and he like says words. I don't know. And like for some reason, his tweets go viral. I don't know. Like mine don't. So like, what does this guy know? And sure enough, ends up creating this social media agency, ends up

taking it public has this great podcast that's super popular he's a shark on the shark tank of Europe like this guy's like now he's like he's the black gary v now and so it's like there's a it's like dude that's i just thought of six in the last 15 seconds like i don't know there might be even more that i'm not even remembering that or like come from this same batch and uh i need a new batch my little personal yc this is good that you're talking about this so i was talking to a friend yesterday so uh producer ben you can leave all this live but you you're going to have to bleep out what I'm about to say, but I want Sean to know what it is.

So my friend I was talking to, he said, he just mentioned it. We were talking about something totally different. And he was like, yeah, you know, like,

you know, I made $30 million from an angel investment. And, yeah, so this is how I found my accountant. I did this, this, because I was asking him for a good accountant.

And I was like, where, like, I made the rewind sound. I was like, skit, like, you know,

scratch the record, reverse. Tell me about this thing. He goes, Yeah, basically I was, you know, like president of like a smallish startup that wasn't doing so well. And a 22 year old kid who worked for me, he quit to start a company. And I was, you know, frustrated at first, but like he was real promising. And so I invested $25,000 at a $3 million evaluation.

The company went public like a year or two ago. And it was a $15 billion evaluation. It was called a market cap. It was called, this is the part you got to bleep out. It was called you know that company? No, but okay. It's a boring, nothing special, like B2B, whatever. And he's like, yeah, I had $75,000 at the time when I was running my first startup.

I didn't have a lot of money, but I decided to invest all of it into startups. And I did it in sizes of $10,000 and $25,000. And that one check that I did of $25,000, it turned into $30 million. And I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah, basically like, I knew this kid was strong and I wanted to be part of just whatever he was in. I wanted to surround myself with young people and I thought he was promising. And in fact, it worked out really well. And I made so much money off of this one deal.

And he goes, and then the other one, he said made like a 10 X return as well. And he just got super lucky on that one. And it totally worked out. So it was crazy story. And I'm like, well, I've invested in a bunch of companies. I'm late for that to happen. That'd be nice. Yeah, exactly.

What part do I do for the $30 billion? Is there a line for that? Am I the right line? Yeah. Yeah. So it worked out. It's a crazy story. That was good.

All right. I had another one, but let's save it for the next, let's save it to the next episode because it's getting all along now. All right. That's the pod. I think that was a banger. We forgot to remind people,

if you made it this far. There is a gentleman's agreement. This content that you're listening to, it is not free. We're like one of the only places on YouTube, actually, where the content's not free. You have to pay. What do you have to pay with?

that's your cue, Sean. Oh, I was enthralled. I was ready for you to just keep going. I thought you were on one. Go ahead. You have to pay something in order to listen to this channel. If you've listened to more than one thing, you have to do me a favor. Go to the YouTube page and click subscribe because that helps us.

Or, you know what? What I'm going to ask people to do? If you're listening to this on like Apple or Spotify, share this. Share it on Twitter, LinkedIn, all that stuff. And we're even. So you listen to us. I just spent hours on this research, by the way. and you spent $15 million of lost money in order to make this content.

To tell that story. Yep. To tell that story. I believe in front of you. So this is not free. Subscribe to the channel. Yeah. This is not,

this channel is not free. You have to click subscribe on YouTube because we're trying to build up our YouTube. And you have to click subscribe and follow on the spot podcast. And by the way, what I like, people go in the comments on YouTube and they just say they honored the gentleman's agreement. And I go to each one and I just say, from handshakes. From handshakes to you. From handshakes to you too.

So that's what you have to do. And by the way, I read every comment on those YouTube things. All right. We're out of here.