My First Million - Jack Smith On Biohacking, 2 Easy Business Ideas, PLUS Why Procrastination Is Good

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

Episode 621: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) talk to Jack Smith ( https://x.com/_jacksmith ) about his under-the-radar biohacking experiments plus 2 $1M dollar business ideas. — Show Notes: (0:00) Is reverse-aging a scam (3:23) The 1% of biohacking (12:28) Business idea: Mobile Dexa Scan (25:30) Business idea: Medical tourism brokers (32:06) Anti-beast mode (39:10) Why smart people have bad ideas (45:40) Hunt for the starving crowd (49:27) AppLovin origin story (54:20) Finding demand that feels like a landmine (56:03) Jack's book recommendation — Links: • Get our business idea database here https://clickhubspot.com/mfm • BodySpec - https://www.bodyspec.com/ • Prenuvo - https://www.prenuvo.com/ • Q Bio - https://www.q.bio/ • Aiwo - https://aiwo.com/ • “Why Smart People Have Bad Ideas” - https://paulgraham.com/bronze.html • Vungle - https://vungle.com/privacy/ • The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success - https://tinyurl.com/mwyf6spw • Jack on MFM - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwLEocqK0E — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam’s List - http://samslist.co/ — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano

For some reason, he's saying that one of the best measures of your aging is like your nighttime erections. So I'm starting doing this treatment where it's like you shockwave your penis, etc. And he's like, I'm going once a month, et cetera. I'm like, dude, I have that machine in my house. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. Hey, Jack, is this aging stuff, this anti-aging stuff? Is this legitimate? anti-aging kind of as a it's emerging trend right and I kind of feel that it's just it's hard to know if this is scam or not and then why do we give brian johnson davy asprey etc any credibility because

how do we know that they're good at anti-aging they're in their 50s Dave asprey can say he wants to live to 140 and stuff right and i realized like it's really powerful and dangerous to criticize someone's appearance. Like, I don't like it either. But for me, the only measures we have about if these guys stuff is working is their aging score thing, right? I was just thinking of an analogy and I kind of felt it's like saying that someone's a great marathon runner, but they're only at the halfway point.

Like, maybe these guys are good at avoiding injuries, so they're more likely to complete the marathon. But how do we know if they're going to get a good time in the marathon? We only know when they're like 100 or something. thing. In comparison, so these are the people we look to as the influencers, even like Dr. Ronda Patrick for women, she's in her 40s, I think. So they're all middle age, Peter Atia, Huberman. They're not 100 years old. So how do we know they're good at anti-aging? They're only halfway there. I mean, Sam, you had a better anti-aging score. You couldn't upload your results, right, but you

would be like number one, I think on there from your thing. Yeah, Sean, I did the Rejuvenation Olympics. Basically, the Rejuvenation Olympics, it's this test done by true diagnostics. It's like a blood work company. And Brian Johnson has a partnership with them. And I think the science is still like iffy, but the idea is like if the length of a cell that you have, I forget what the cell is called mitochondria or something like that. There's a theory that like the length of that is correlated to your biological age. I did this test, Sean, and I scored great. So great that I messaged Brian Johnson, and I was like, this is wrong, right? And he's like, well, no, like, you're like the number three on the rejuvenation Olympics.

And the thing is, it's like, I'm a 80, 20 type of guy. I do like 80% great, and then I like fuck off for 20%. Like I eat poorly sometimes. But I just think that a lot of this, the takeaway from when I did that thing was, it's mostly genetics, I think. do mostly good stuff, but there's people who do so much better stuff. And I just think that it's like largely genetics. But because one of the only measures we have is this score, then it means that that gives, that's the only lender of credibility we have to if you're only, like, you guys are able to present

this podcast because you sold your companies, right? So you have some legitimacy there. But the only legitimate litmus test we have here is your aging score. But then it's like, okay, Sam, you have legitimacy. So you can just say, oh, I have a great score because I have Coke Zero every day. And then everyone buys Coke Zero and thinks that's anti-aging's best supplement, right? So why do you spend so much energy on this then? Because you're spending money, you're spending time. Yet it sounds like what you're saying is, look, the science, the measurement is iffy. The incentives are a little iffy because there's a lot of money to be made by claiming certain things. You know, it's not clear cause and effect. We don't know what really works, what really doesn't work. You've spent $50,000 in

your submarine was like, I didn't really feel anything. Maybe if you're deficient, you might feel something. But you're a smart guy. Why still spend the time and energy in this space? Because actually, I've tried out all these different things, right? And Tony Robbins actually has a book about all the emerging health stuff that he tries out, et cetera. So 99% of it, I don't notice anything. However, 1% I do notice big things. And for me, It's kind of like, okay, we don't know what works, what doesn't work, but I've only got one life and I've only got one body and just experimenting. I can find those 1% things that are very impactful and like under the radar and stuff. The 1% stuff, if I had to guess, is just eating mostly plants and animals and lifting heavy weights and like going for walks.

So actually not for me, but yeah. Oh, well, fuck me then. All right. What is it? So one thing, and this is, this sounds crazy as well, right? So this is the thing. All of these things have all the science. And they're like, and Dave has to be like, okay, this extract of blueberry,

it reduces your aging because it does this, etc. Like, and then here's 50 medical studies, etc. One thing that actually has been a game changer for me, my family, the science just doesn't make any sense. Like, the science isn't there. And I don't spend much money, but I've spent $15,000 on this thing. And that's like the low-end one. It's called energy enhancement system.

And that's what it costs sex, my friend. Sarah, is it time for some energy enhancement? Got some EES tonight? So what is this? So basically at the high end, these machines cost over. $100,000 the setup. Again, the science, when I'm looking at it, like, I'm a tech guy, right? So I'm going in, I'm way in the waiting room, and I'm looking around, I'm like, dude, this is just a normal computer monitor. Like, what? What's the deal? And they're saying, like,

oh, these are all, there's like 16 of these computer monitors and computers, all laser aligned, and it creates an energy vortex in the middle of the room. So let me explain, if you Google this, you're going to see a photo. The photo, looks like a doctor's waiting room, except the chairs are literally lawn chairs. We're talking $30 lawn chairs, the type you would bring to like your kid's soccer game. And then the room has eight TVs and the TVs. This looks like a sports book. You ever go to Vegas and where you can bet on sports and there's 18 different monitors, horse racing over here, basketball over here, and you sit in the shitty chair. That's what this looks like. And like, you know how like when

you're a kid and you and the cable used to go out and it would be like a bunch of like colors on the screen. It basically just looks like that. That is it. Yeah. That's what I'm, I want to let you know, that's what I'm looking at. And I want to let you know this sounds incredibly ridiculous what you are saying. Jack, I'm open-minded. Continue. There's also people claiming that this cured their cancer. Like, if you look what this can be used for, they just say, all right, whatever's wrong with you, this will cure it. This cured cancer, this cured AIDS. So I go, but I go in, and I'd actually been suffering for a year with severe headaches. I had this, thing where it's called new daily persistent headaches. It means basically you wake up one day and you

have a headache every day. So I'd been struggling with that for a year and I tried loads of stuff like ozone therapy, ketamine, like I tried everything. And I actually think that this EES thing is the only thing that worked. I just went in there and I sat in a lawn chair for an hour, maybe two hours, and then just came out and in my stomach, like I can feel my stomach like reorganizing, et cetera, churning. But not only me, yeah, my wife, it cured her migraines. Her sister came out and then she'd been having trouble sleeping. It, like, cured her sleeping issues.

And then her mom did it as well with us. Like, is crazy. Actually, Tony Robbins has, you can pay, like, a lot more and sleep in the room overnight. So Tony Robbins has spent two days in it. So I have no idea about the science. I've tried out so much stuff. And I actually think this was the only thing that worked, even though the science, nobody can explain it.

It doesn't make any sense. And it also doesn't help that when you Google energy enhancement system. The first listing is their website. The second listing is paperwork from the state of Nevada about how they're being sued. So like, not a good luck, Jack. Not explaining the science second listing is a law. that they're facing. This sounds ridiculous. Where do we go from here?

I'm just playing. Jack, I think this is very interesting, to be honest. I also, again, I can't emphasize this enough. What's interesting about you is that as crazy as you sound right now, you're actually a very smart guy. And the cool thing about you is that you're a very independent thinker, meaning, I think if somebody presents something to you, you're quite skeptical by default, even things that are like consensus, you kind of question like, wait, why does that work? How does that work? Are you sure that that works?

But you're also extremely open-minded and experimental, which means you're going to land on random things. I don't know if this is one of them, but like random things that are kind of non-consensus but work, right, which is, you know, as an investor, those are things that you want as an entrepreneur. Those are things that have served you well. And now in your post-entrepreneurial career, you're doing the same thing, which I find interesting. I think I'm kind of just like if Brian Johnson drank. too much coffee and just got ADHD and tried that bunch of stuff. Like, what I really admire about him is like, if he's testing something, he's like

testing like, okay, how does this affect my blood work to know, is it working, whatever? Whereas I'm just like, okay, they just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, like just try out everything. Like some of the stuff that Brian was trying, like, was just messaging on Twitter. I'm like, dude, I was trying that like two years ago, like some of the different emerging stuff. But I was not actually, I just tried some things and then see. He, all right, does that do anything?

Like, he had talked recently about, for some reason, he's saying that one of the best measures of your aging is like your nighttime erections. I don't know if you've seen this. So he measures his erections. Looked into it. Yeah. I'm starting doing this treatment where it's like shockwave therapy that you shockwave your penis, et cetera. And he's like, I'm going once a month, et cetera. I'm like, dude, I have that machine in my house.

I didn't see that when I visited. You should have let me give it a whirl. Why don't you tell your guest that? I would love to give him that thing a try. What's the word on that, Jack? Does it do anything? It actually is a fair. Yeah.

I don't know. What? Should we talk about? non-health stuff for a bit. Yes. Well, I was going to tell you if you want because that a bit is like, yeah, thanks again for having you back on the pod because meet so many interesting people and your exposure has grown so much.

And then I've met a number of people even in Portugal that listen to it. And so I'm speaking to some listeners and they said, okay, what we want is like, they said to me like, okay, Sam and Sean, sometimes they just tell stories too much. So we want actionable stuff as well and we want business ideas. So one idea that I can share with you. Is that what you got? I've got one business idea. I was considering it, but then it doesn't make any sense for me,

but it seems to make sense I would think for other people. Is that kind of like doing like the Samoa brothers? By the way, did you, Sean, did you just, he just kind of like, you know, a lot of people are complaining about your podcast because of this. So I'm going to fix it for you. The complaint was like, yeah, you guys talk too much. It's like, it's a podcast. What are we supposed to do?

It's like, don't worry. I've got the solution. They don't think that are actionable, specific, useful, insightful, and not that other stuff that they usually do. The Samwar brothers, what is the idea? You know, they cloned Airbnb and brought it to Europe. So the Samware Brothers, wait, we got to give context. Samar Brothers are these three German brothers who are famous because starting in like 1999, they copied eBay but for Germany. And within 90 days, they started and sold it for close to $100 million.

and then they did that with Airbnb, Amazon. So they would just find Silicon Valley companies and their whole thing. They didn't use great words because they're German. They're not allowed to use this word, but they called it blitzkrieg. They would blitzkrig the internet. So they would find Amazon and do that in Thailand.

They would do Airbnb, but in France, whatever. And oftentimes they were so hardcore. They made them massive to the point where they couldn't even, like they tried to build a company to sell to Groupon, but their Groupon competitor got bigger than Groupon. And they're like, shit, no one could buy us. And so they're famous for doing that. Anyway, go ahead.

So I was thinking you can do something similar, but for just like bootstrapped businesses. Like it doesn't need to be a tech VC type thing. And just one dumb example is like in San Francisco and I think they have in Austin, et cetera. Like you can get a Dexa scan, D-E-XA, for like $2530. And it-Body spec. It's awesome.

And the test takes like seven minutes. And they've just got the process down amazingly. They have a van with this deck. a scan machine in it. And they're just giving people seven minutes appointments, like go in, do a scan and gym people, and many people in general just love it because it's the most, I think it is the most effective way of measuring body fat in your body. There's different methods you can use. I believe this is the most accurate. And if you're, and it's measured like muscle mass. So if you're working out at a gym, it tells you if you're gaining muscle or not. And in San Francisco,

it's really accessible. But then in Portugal, for example, just one example, like, you can only do it at a hospital and in Lisbon like it's not anywhere else in the rest of the country and it costs like $200 need to drive there. Body spec was bootstrapped and they built it to like more than $2 million in revenue even with just like 14 vans I think and the rollout strategy is pretty simple like you just partner with like CrossFit gyms and you just park in their parking lot you know so you're like on Monday we're going to be at this CrossFit gym on Tuesday we'll be here etc. So I felt like just cloning that in Portugal. You just buy, you can get a used Dexascan machine. We went to Mr. Beasts's house and he has one in his office. It was just

people coming by and everyone thinks it's cool to just do a Dexas scan. He asked us like, oh, does anyone want a Dexas scan? I've got one in the office. You can buy it for like 50. It was great, by the way. One guy jumped on the Dexas scan and we all bet his body fat percentage. It's just like the ultimate like, you can't do this. in society anymore, but we were like, no, no, no, no, he's for sure. He's for sure 18.3. No, no way. I'm going under. And then somebody got it right. How much of those machines? I knew, I think, like 50,000. And that was more affordable than I thought because the whole body MRI scanner, which looks kind of similar, but it's doing an MRI scan.

That's a million dollars. And so this like 50K reasonable. And then I saw some used for like 15,000. And then you just put it in a van. Patrick Campbell, our buddy Patrick just bought one. Oh, he did? for he basically, so he lives in Puerto Rico and he bought, so he bought a Dixon machine and he put it like, I think in kind of like a community, like he has like a gym and it's like kind of like you made it like a community area. So like anybody in his kind of expat neighborhood can come there and like,

you know, work out and do it. So he did it as like a he's interested in it, but also it will attract other health people and like kind of a social thing almost by adding this machine. Yeah, I used to do that as a kid, but we did it with breathizers. Well, you'd buy a breathalyzer, go to a party. We all surround it and try to guess. But doing it with the MRI or whatever would be a lot more fun.

So, Jack, the idea is to Samwar BodySpeck. So you basically clone the BodySpeck bootstrapped business model in Europe. Yeah, because you could launch it for less than $50,000. I mean, a van, you can probably buy it on finance as well, and this medical machine, just like finance it, etc. And then you just get one van, and that could kind of serve all of Portugal even. You know, you just be like, right, on Monday, I'm in Lisbon, and then on Tuesday we'll be in this region, on Wednesday we'll be here,

and you book people seven minutes slots. When that's working, just either get another van or just get another van in Spain, in Barcelona or in France. Because it's just not out here, but it has strong, it has wide appeal, and it's affordable. Like, even my wife is not into this kind of thing, but she's interested, like, how is my, I'm working out.

So is it working? Like, I want to see, am I gaining muscle and stuff? So, yeah, that was one idea. That's a cool idea. Have you guys seen a pre-novo? Have you seen pre-novae, Sean? Yeah, yeah, I've done a pre-novos scan. So I'm going to go do one as well.

It's a pretty, like, wild idea. I don't know if it's effective or not, but basically getting an MRI, like I think we've actually talked about this, Sean. I think in 50 or 100 years, we're going to look back and we're going to be like, can you believe that since the beginning of time, you could have cancer or something bad growing in your body and you would just have no idea. You'd have no idea that it'd be like an intruder in your home.

Like, I don't know, there could be someone down there. We're not sure. And oftentimes, or some of the times, they say, well, had you just found this earlier, basically had you come through our front doors and gotten this MRI, we could have solved this. This was a very solvable thing. And so they kind of take, they're taking that idea and anyone can pay money.

It's $3,500 for one or $1,000 for like a lower end version. And you could walk in off the street and get these MRI full body scans. And I don't know if they're great or not, but the idea of that is cool. Was it cool, Sean? I mean, it's definitely cool. You go, you lay down and they basically do a full body MRI, which normally either would take a long time,

it'd be like four hours or something, but they do this in one hour because of their, they basically have rejiggered traditional MRI machines. This is what they tell you, right? So they say, we've rejiggered the MRI machines, and now we can do it faster, and we can get higher resolution, we can get more images,

and then we have special software that can read it and all this stuff. So I went there, lay down, watched Top Gun and came out, and they were like, cool, you don't have cancer. I was like, all right. Guess I'll just go back to my day then. And, you know, that was that. I thought that's kind of amazing.

And I love the mission of it. So I love the mission of basically knowing, understanding what's going on your body, being more proactive versus reactive when it comes to, you know, like you said, so many things that if we had caught this sooner, that's one of the great regrets of life, right? And that, you know, it's like the Tesla model. They're starting with this really expensive thing that only rich health nuts can do. And then, but the goal is over time, get this, get the cost down through, you know, economies of scale as well as like the technology curve going down so that, you know,

Now, these become, instead of a few thousand dollars, like we have a few hundred dollars to do and then more people will do them. That's the idea. Now, I must say the counter argument, which is I was pretty pumped about this. But I'm also a new, but I'm a layman. I don't know the science behind this stuff. I don't know what's real and what's not. I showed it to a friend of mine who was a surgeon and my best buddy from college.

And I was like, hey, I did this thing. Have you heard about it? He's like, no, let me check it out. And so he's like, cool, can you send me the scan. And I was like, oh, you can actually, yeah, you can get the file, like the folder. here's the zip folder of all my images. Because he was like, that doesn't sound right. He's like, I don't think you can do what they're saying you can do.

He's like, I don't believe that you can get that many images at that resolution using this technology, nor do I think you can see what's actually like a dangerous thing without doing the like, you drink the thing and then it's contrast, it lights up differently in your body. He's like, I don't believe that. And so he's like, show me the images. So I show him the images. And I'm trying to defend it, but I also don't know shit. I'm like, no, no, no, it's technology.

Like the guy, he had the story, his friend died. So, you know, he was motivated. And he's like, what are you talking about? Just show me the images. I showed him the images. He's like, so these are normal MRI images. These are not. He's like, first of all, this is less images than they say they have.

He's like, look at this. On their website, they say, we take this many slices, this many cuts. He's like, look, there's 27 images in here. So where's the images? He's like, secondly, this looks exactly like an image. He's like, thirdly, I could see your penis in this. I was like, oh, god damn it. And he's like, fourth.

He's like, fourth, you know, the resolution or the ability to see what's actually going on. Like, this would not be useful enough to do any kind of diagnosis. And then I was at a dinner with the guy who started pre-nevo. And I was like, hey, not to be a buzzkill, but like, I did a scan, talk to my doctor, buddy. And he starts laughing as soon as I talked to my doctor friend. And he's like, oh, I know, I know. And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to say it anyways. He said that it doesn't make sense and it didn't really work.

And that there was not, like, not as many images and the resolution. He's like, no, that's doctors always say that. I'm like, well, isn't that a bad thing if doctors always say that? He's like, no, no, no. I mean, like, not all doctors, but we hear that a lot. I was like, cool. So what's the answer? And, you know, what would I tell my friend that would have him not believe that I'm, you know,

getting there noticed here? And he was like, you need like our software to be able to, we have like machine learning. And he starts saying some worries. Like, we have special software that reads this. I was like, cool. But I felt kind of like he brushed it off. Now, it might have just been because it was a dinner. And he didn't have time to get to the.

the details and maybe he is really sick of just hearing this over and over again. I'm not sure, but I personally didn't walk away super convinced that, in either direction, that this is like super useful or not. I'm saying the whole thing because I've seen a lot of people promoting this thing. And just if it's useful, here is a personal anecdote counterpoint. Do your own research and figure it out. But that's kind of where I landed with it, where I thought, well, if somebody can't explain something simply to me and in a way that's convincing, then I, you know, I'll just air on the side of it's probably not miraculous is kind of where I landed. To say one, a pro point, Sam and I were at a dinner and the lady said like, she just had a feeling that her

boyfriend should do this scan. She wasn't sure why. Just kind of had a feeling and then did the scan and they found a lump and he had cancer. He had cancer and he got surgery like two months later. And the surgeon was like, how did you detect that you had this? You don't have any symptoms. And if you had called this just like a few months later, you actually would either be dead or not be able to speak right now. And so she's becoming like, they are becoming like advocates for this in their marketing videos and stuff. So that's a pro that it did catch it ahead of time.

And I have heard that also from other people too. And when you go in, they say one in 20 scans. So 5% of people who come in have a potentially life-saving diagnosis. Now, again, it's hard to verify a claim like this. It's hard to know. But I have heard anecdotally. Other people say, oh, yeah, we did go.

We did find something. So, you know, it's not nothing. And but even besides that, as a business, this thing is gangbusters, right? They make so much money off of, off this. They've got, I don't know how many locations, but they just raised like $70 million to expand pre-newvo. And I think they're in like, I don't know, 20 cities around the country now. So one thing as well to say is like, I've done this thing called QBio, which is funded by Google.

And they're at least $70 million in funding, perhaps more than $100 million. kind of a competitor to pre novo, et cetera. So I've done that in America. And they similarly say like, okay, well, I was the chief medical officer at Google. And we have all these Google engineers. So we do AI. And that's why we can do it in 45 minutes instead of four hours, etc. Like you're saying, Sean, I did the same thing in India and got exactly the same results.

And I was only doing it for 40 minutes. Like, I think they're just Silicon Valley branding. They're also Google engineers in India. Turns out there's just a lot of Google engineers out there. Google engineer is like the Harvard Extension School graduate, right? It's like there's a lot of people that have this stamp. So one other business idea I did think after going to this retreat, because this retreat, as I said, it was $6,000.

But what was it called? It's called A-I-W-O is the center. It's $6,000. It included that MRI that in America you're paying more than $3,000 for. And that was just like a few hours part of it. This was a whole week and included your hotels, etc. But then speaking to other people, they were like, you know, many other countries have amazing medical tech. Turkey, Korea, et cetera.

The challenges they have with, is branding. And also like the printouts might be in Korean or Turkish. So I think what this guy, the AWO place is doing amazing is he's targeting people that are interested in biohacking, following Brian Johnson. And then he's getting the influencers. So he just got the guy who's number one, number two on Brian Johnson's leaderboard. He told that guy, hey, you can come for. free, but just refer eight people. And you also be there to help people interpret their blood test results or whatever. So get all these other people to pay 6K, and I'll give it to you for free.

I feel you could just brand a biohacking center in any other country if you have strong links to the country. Because what they were doing here is they don't have their own MRI scanner. He just took us to all these different labs in India. He just made connections with them. And they kind of just got us to skip to the front of the queue, you know? So a concierge medical for anti-aging, but you could do that in other countries. We had a buddy, Jack. I don't know if you remember this. Sean, you might know them too when we worked out of the founder's dojo. They had this crazy business and it didn't end up working, but they had a lot of people who were interested, but they couldn't get them over the line. But basically, if you want to get a boob job or other types of plastic surgery,

you could get it in America, of which it's elective and it's very expensive. Or, or, you know, Or you could go to India and get it done or Mexico and get it done. And the claim is that the doctors are as good, the care is as good, but it's 5% of the price. So instead of, I don't know how much it moved off cost. But let's say instead of $20,000, it's $1,500 or $2,000. And these people had created this business called, it was all on medical tourism, which I didn't know that was a thing. And they got a lot of interested customers. But because they were a startup, they could convince these people to trust them and things like that.

But it was actually pretty interesting when they told me this. I was like, there's no way people are going to do that. But there are a lot of people willing to do that. I remember that. John Howard was doing that, right? John Howard. Yeah, I don't remember why it didn't work out. I guess they just couldn't get people over the line. But we were in this office where, like, guys were mining Bitcoin and all this shit.

And they were like in this little room trying to convince these people to fly to India to get like their team. Yeah, get like a root canal in like Mexico. Like, yeah, you can go on the beach afterwards and just sit there. Like, and it was just like a lot of people that actually do this. And, you know, I think all he missed was it was just a hair transplanted turkey was all he needed to do. That like, Jack, you got a beautiful head of hair. But have you looked into, can you explain to me what's going on with the turkey thing? Why is this?

Seems incredibly popular. And also why Turkey? I'm not sure why why Turkey. What they were saying in India is they're just like, hey, we've just got so many people here in India that he's like, if you, in America, if you've got some obscure disease, then none of us. if the doctors have ever come across it before. Whereas in India, like, there's like 10 other, the patient, they've had 10 other patients that week with the same issue. And it is true, a bunch of the doctors in India. I was speaking to the guy and they had studied and worked in England. They're not like going to someone around and play. He's like, oh, I studied at this medical

university in England. So they're saying it's quantity of people. I'm not sure what attributes make turkey, um, the leading bit for hair transplants and stuff. I'm going to do a deep dive on the turkey hair transplant thing. It's insane. Like I have seen, so many people do this. I think it's like basically 10 times less or something than in the U.S. So, you know, I think there's obviously a cost component, but I just don't know why Turkey. There's this funny photo that this guy shared online

where he was like on his way back from Turkey on the airplane and he took a picture of all the men sitting on the plane and there was literally like 10 heads that you could tell the hair had just gotten sewn in. And so I was like, holy shit, this thing is big. Yeah, like there's Instagram influencer like transplant daddies that are like the Turkish guys. And they're just every day that's the content that they're posting. And it seems like in a kind of incredible business for whatever reason.

You have this thing on here. We asked you in advance what you want to talk about. You have this thing on here that I thought was interesting. And I don't know exactly what it means, but it sounds intriguing. You're like there's a counter to founder Beast Mode. What does that mean? It was funny because at the Camp MFMFM, I was trying to explain to Mr. Bees. the project that I'm working on now.

So I was saying, like, you know, people working in tech and then they get burned out. And so I'm building a place for them to detox from technology and recover from burnout. And he's like, I literally cannot relate at all to this idea because I just don't get burned out. But he has an amazing strategy, but like the thing is 99% of people can't do this, which is he said, I'm either on 100% or I'm off 100%. So he said, I'll just work like seven days. in a row until I pass out and sleep and I'll just keep waking up every day, every day, every day, and just keep doing that. But then when I feel that I'm getting burned out, I'll just do zero work.

And I'll just watch documentaries all day and just procrastinate all day. I'll feel better again. And then I'll go 100. But it could also be that, you know, he's in his 20s. Like, he's not super old. Like I was speaking to this other Portuguese startup here and they're like, yeah, I don't know what burnout is either. They're like 23. And they're just like working all these hours. And I said, one thing, analogy I thought of is like, I went to this thing like Y Combinator, AngelPad, and I've never worked that hard or achieved that much in three months. It's 30 days. I just worked so intensely and we just got amazing stuff done. We raised $2 million in funding. We got a, we came up with a business idea. We managed to get a

CTO to join our team. We achieved loads of stuff. But for me, that, That was a 90-day sprint. If you're just trying to do that endlessly, it's like telling your same bolt, like, okay, great, you just ran the 100 meters. Just keep up that pace. We're now doing a marathon, but just keep up that same pace you ran the 100 meters in. It doesn't work. Like, at some point, you might feel like it's going, okay, but at some point, I feel like you are going to burn out. So for me, balance is important and not having tunnel vision, just be like, I'm being productive, productive, productive, I feel procrastination can have benefits as well. The way we came up with the idea for Vungal is we were just playing around with a bunch of different mobile apps,

and we wanted to record a meeting with one of the coaches that we had there. So we're like, hey, is it okay if we just record the meeting to take notes? And so we opened this voice recording app, and then it was free, and then it started blaring some video ad on like full volume, and then that call for like Coca-Cola or something. And actually, that's how we got the idea. like, wait a minute, what if these ads, instead of being really intrusive and advertising something not relevant to us, what if they were advertising based on our user profiles of other apps that we might like? So it's that kind of balance, I think. Yeah, I think what you're saying makes a ton of sense. I think about everything in either seasons or gears. There's a words I use a lot, which is, you know, there are seasons of life, seasons where you're going to sprint and focus, seasons where you're going to explore and wander. I find it very useful for myself to label the seasons, know what's season I'm in and embrace that season. Because if you're in the season of wander, it's very easy to feel really anxious that you're not being productive. But you just remind yourself, that's not what this season is. This is a season of exploring, dabbling, whatever. If you're in a season of productivity or

focus, you might feel guilty for saying no to go into your friend's thing or to go into this event or whatever. But you remind yourself, that's what this season is. And this won't last forever. The fact that it's timeboxed as a season, maybe it's 30 days, 60 days, 90 days a year is very useful. Because you know, okay, this is not forever, but for now, this is the right thing to do. The other thing I talk about is gears. Like, I need to have multiple gears like a car that I can shift into and out of. Personal life, I do this with like, I can be in work creator boss mode. But if I bring that guy to my marriage, it's not a great marriage, right?

So I need to be a different guy when it comes to marriage. When it comes to my kids, I'm silly playful dad. And so I like intentionally think, okay, like I almost visualize in my head. Like, I'm shifting gears now. I'm going to be that other guy. And I want to have a few of these characters that are very useful to me. versions of me that I can say, all right, you're driving now. I'm going to a workout.

So it's not silly playful to add. It's more of the workout, which is like the guy who's willing to push harder to be, you know, a little more intense. And so I think you want to have both. I think you want to be able to be able to focus. And when you, when something's not working, be able to zoom out and get, go go wider, diverge and dabble and sort of procrastinate and play until you figure out something worth focusing on.

Not everything is obviously worth focusing on. So I definitely agree with you there. I also think that the stage of life matters a lot, right? When I was when I first met Sam and I met you, Jack, I was probably 24, 25 years old. I remember that that year I slept in the office, I think 215 days out of the year. It was a nice office, but still, you know, I was just like totally devoted to it. I don't think I was particularly productive. I was just like willing to throw everything at this.

And when I wasn't at the office, I was doing our mastermind dinners, I was doing other things that I thought might help me be successful because it was really the only thing I cared about at that time was to be successful. Now I'm 36 years old. I don't have that same burning desire to be successful. I care about other things. And so what today makes no sense to me made a lot of sense back then and vice versa. So I think I agree with pretty much everything you said. I don't think it's at odds with the way that I operate at least.

Well, one bit I thought was interesting to think about is that for me, actually, people don't put enough time into thinking what they want. and I think Sean, like us, you just touched on it Sean, about all of us, I think, did clearly, we knew our North Star why we're working really hard, right? And Mr. Beast, I told Sam, I was not joking, but Sam was like laughing off, but I was serious. I was like, I think Mr. Beast, if he wanted, he can be president of the US at some point, because he just since the age of 15 has just had one goal and it's not changed for 10, whatever years. said, I want to be the number one on YouTube. And that has not changed. He's not changed that. And he said no to a bunch of things. But he just decided on that and went all in on that and

surrounded himself by other people who were chasing the same goal. But it was just all in on that. It kind of struck me a bit that I think actually a lot of people don't put enough time into thinking what they want. Yeah, you brought up something that I get pretty fired up about, which is figuring out what you want and taking the time to do it. I think I've been really bad. about this. The reason I get fired up is because I look back at years of my life, I spent on the wrong things. And that's a very expensive thing. Like years in my 20s are sort of like prime assets. That's the beachfront real estate of my life. And if I spent it on things that I didn't really think through or actually in retrospect, we're sort of obviously dumb things to work on,

that brought a lot of kind of like lessons learned for me. And I read this. What was that lesson? Project selection is the most important thing. That amongst talented people, the, the biggest sort of variable that actually happens. Assume you're going to do the table stakes, right, which is you're not going to do the thing Jacks talking about. Like, you're not going to just not,

like take no action on something. Like I was already past that. I was going to take action. I was going to work like hard enough. Maybe I wasn't going to be the hardest worker on earth, but I was willing to work hard enough to make the thing happen. And again, I'm also like intelligent enough.

I'm not the smartest guy, but I'm, that's not, that's not the reason I'm going to fail is because I just can't figure something out. Okay. So there's me and like, I don't know, everybody I knew, all of my friends,

we're all in that same boat. We all wanted it. We're willing to take action, willing to work hard enough, and we're all about smart enough to figure things out. So what was the biggest difference in where everybody landed and how their life went? And it was project selection. It was, you know,

the people, like at the time, when I sort of started to think about this, I was trying to build a sushi restaurant. It's like, okay, building a restaurant is probably, you know,

on the low end of like poor project selection decisions, especially for somebody like me who didn't have a passion for food, nor was like, you know, that was not my dream. Like, I did not get joy out of making food every day or, you know, bringing to life, you know, a manual or whatever. So it's absolutely the wrong project for me. And then I just sort of made similar mistakes along the way, even when I had a golden opportunity where, you know, the Birch family believed in me, they hired me, they named me CEO, they gave me a blank check and a team full of engineers. And basically, they funded like $15 million and a bunch of engineers to running this ideal lab where I could think of any idea

I wanted. But the one boundary box was it had to be kind of consumer. And then he liked social and I liked social. Everybody likes social. The idea that we could create the next Twitter, next Facebook, that was so sexy. But it was, again, like pretty terrible project selection where, you know, the odds of success, even amongst the most brilliant people, you know, are sort of like point, oh, like, there's like six people have done it, you know, in the last 30 years, period, six human beings on earth that have made like a Snapchat, a Twitter or whatever. And so, you. You know, Again, poor project selection. Like, at a time where what I really cared about was being successful,

I was choosing a project that had like almost no chance of being successful. And I really wasn't smart enough to see the opportunities around me that were much, much better for me at the time. But I want to read you this thing. I was reading this essay by Paul Graham. It's called Why Smart People Have Bad Ideas. He talks about this exact thing. You know, before he started White Combinator, he did via Web.

But before he did via Web, have you guys heard of the startup he did before that? No. Not that can remember. It's something called Artix. And so basically it was like 1995 and they have this idea called Artix and it's basically to put web galleries online. And he's like, oh, it's great because I love painting. I love art. I'm kind of like a programmer.

I understand like this internet thing is here and that seems important. So like what's the internet idea? Oh, I should marry my two hobbies, art on the internet. And he's like, cool. And so he says, in retrospect, I wonder how we could have wasted our time on something so stupid. galleries were not excited about being on the web, even now, decades later, let alone back in 1995. They don't want to have all their stock visible to some random online anonymous visitor.

Like, that's not how the art world works. And he's like, basically, we couldn't sell the thing. Like, we couldn't get any customers. And he's like, by the way, we're not alone here. Like Paul Allen and Bill Gates before they started Microsoft, they started, you know, trafo data. And he's like, it was not anywhere near as successful as Microsoft. Like, same talent, but working on the wrong project.

Alex Ramose had a great way of saying this. He said when he was doing his gym business, he went to like a mastermind. And at the mastermind, the guy was like, cool, I heard everything you just said about how you made your five gyms successful. He's like, you're like a nine out of ten execution on a two out of ten opportunity. And you're asking us how to execute better when actually you should be saying, you should be realizing that you're only working on a two out of ten opportunity. For me, that was sushi restaurants. For him, that was running brick and mortar gyms. And once he changed what he was doing, like he didn't have to be. He didn't have to be working. to work 10 times harder, but he could get literally 100 times the level of success. So Paul Graham says this thing. He goes, so why does this happen? Why do hackers have bad business ideas? Let's look at our case. We had such a lame idea because it was the first thing we thought of. I was in New York trying to be a starving artist at the time. The starving part was easy. And he's like, I was looking at art galleries anyways. And when I learned to make website, it seemed natural to mix the two together. He goes, if you're going to spend years working on something, it might be wise to at least spend a few days considering different ideas instead

of just going with the first idea that comes in your head. You would think, but people don't. In fact, this is a constant problem, even in just the world of painting. If you want to go be a still-life painter, you would sit down in front of your table with all your materials, and you might spend five minutes thinking about what you're going to paint, but it's hard to spend more time than that looking at the blank canvas. We get so impatient that we just start painting anything. But the problem is painting takes time.

It could take, you know, days, weeks, months to finish a painting. You're going to go back and wish, you know, halfway through that maybe you're you had thought about what you actually wanted to paint, but it's too late. You've already kicked it off just because you couldn't sit there for an hour thinking about what to work on. And basically says that this is the same thing they see in YC2, that basically founders will pick an idea because it's too uncomfortable to sit in the not knowing and think about what you actually want to do and what actually might be interesting for you, what actually might be a good idea. And so we just start. And this is what I was guilty of at the beginning. It was just starting.

And it seems like, cool, cool. I'll change it later. But once you start, you get wed to it. I remember when we thought about pivoting, we only thought about pivoting to other restaurant ideas or other online delivery things. It was like we could only think inside this box because anything else felt like admitting failure, giving up, starting from scratch, going back to the bottom of the mountain,

even though that might have been the right way to do it, it mentally was far too hard to do that. I think maybe I might have mentioned this on a previous episode, but I can't remember, but actually Mark Henderson has something that says, like the most important factor in determining if a startup will be successful, like a billion dollar company. So most investors think like it's the team or the actual product or idea, like, oh, wow,

that's an amazing team. And he said he thinks it's none of those. He thinks the most important factor is the market, size the market and growth rate. He's saying if you just have a crappy market, you can have amazing execution, the best team ever, but they're inhibited into how big a company they can build by the size of the market. Yeah, there's a funny business school like anecdote where a guy comes in and he's he's given this talk and he says, all right, business school, you want to create like a successful like hot dog stand? What's the number one? What's the number one factor of success for a hot dog stand?

And, you know, hand goes up. Location. This is not location. I say, you know, ingredients, having the highest quality product. You want to have the best product on the market. He says, nope. They say marketing. You got to be able to get the word out there and spread your story.

Nope. He says, the number one thing to make a successful hot dog stand is a starving crowd. And he said, in general, as a lesson of entrepreneurship, like, you should be hunting for starving crowds. If you go to a starving crowd, even without the best marketing, without the best, you know, product, without the best team or execution, you will still succeed. And I, you know, I forgot the phrase here, but it's like, you know, when a, when a, when a, great entrepreneur meets a bad market. Only one of them keeps their reputation. The bad market keeps their reputation. Whereas if it's a great market and you're even an okay entrepreneur, you'll still be successful. It's a very hard lesson to internalize, but it's proven very true in my

life at least. It's really hard to pick a great market. We were lucky that we did. And many other companies in the same industry as us also became really big companies, but luck, a big factor there. Yeah, I remember you're telling a story about Vungle. So Vungle made like video ads for iPhone apps. And one of Sean's buddies helped start this thing called App Lovin, which became this huge thing. And it's the same type of company. And I don't know what it was worth Sean, like 30 or 40 billion, like a huge sum. And I remember Jack, I think you, I forget exactly how you phrased this, but you're like,

we only did okay. And we had a $750 million exit. it, you know, we could have been like as big as these other ones because the market just pulled this out of us. Like, people were just begging for this product. And like, you weren't technical at the time. Or you weren't very technical. Your partner wasn't technical. I don't think at all. And I was at, I'm like, how on earth you do this? Because I think when you had sold, there was some article that said, Vungle was making a million dollars a day. So you guys were going to do $360 million the year you sold in revenue. And you were just saying, you're like,

do people just begging for this thing? And we just got so lucky that we just picked it right when the iPhone came out. And we got, it was just like, it just got, we got really lucky with that because we didn't do that good. Our competitors, App Lovin,

they were 30 times bigger or whatever the App Loven market. Yeah, they're a $28 billion company right now. Yeah. And they're like, they're literally 30 times bigger. And we only did okay, but we still,

you know, made $800 million or whatever. and that kind of like, I learned that lesson from you about picking the right market. So when Furcon, so Furcon who's my co-founder at Bebo, he was previously the CTO and co-founder of Applevin. And so when he joined, Applevin was doing really well back then, but it wasn't, it didn't look like a $30 billion company. It looked like a $1 billion company.

But I was like, wow, this guy built a billion dollar company. Now he's sitting here next to me and we're working on the next thing from scratch. It's like, what can I learn from this guy? So I was like, how did you guys get that idea? And basically what he told me was a kind of interesting story, Jack, to your point about procrastination, he was like, two things happened. He's like, the first was when I joined, I wasn't the co-founder or the CTO. I joined as like an engineer.

And he's really good. He's like, obviously amazing. And so right away, they were like, hey, we think we have the wrong team. Like we have too many people here. It's going to, we don't have product market. We just have too many people, which is a great like CEO move. Sean, was the we even app 11th or was it some other idea? They were doing a clothing business.

It was like style page. They're trying to make a Pinterest competitor at the time. That was like one of the many ideas. So basically they were, I think they were a dating thing first and then whatever. So they had like 10 or 12 people. He joined. And the CEO Adam, who's proven to be like a pretty like killer guy, was like, hey, we don't know what we're doing, but we do know that this is probably not the right team.

Can you just basically like restart this? He's like, so just anybody who you don't think is like the like hardcore just down to figure this out, let's get rid of them and let's go leaner and let's figure this out. So first thing they do, they fire everybody. It's like not what you would consider to be like the origin story of a $30 billion company. Then now they have like four or five people. So three co-founders plus Furcon as the fourth co-founder and I think maybe one other guy.

And they are like cycling through ideas. And so the founders previously had made like 40 or 50 million bucks doing a, I think like a dating. It was an ad network, but I think for dating sites. And so that's what they knew. They knew ad networks, but it was like for, you know,

generation one of the web. And they had money to fund this. I think he put $4 million into fund the thing. And then they were like, we're going to create the next Pinterest. They saw Pinterest getting hot, so they tried to create a Pinterest competitor. Then they're like,

dude, we're just like four like non-stylish dudes trying to do this. This is not working. Then they created like this Life 360 type of app. And they created like eight or nine ideas. And I was like, so what was it like? You were going in there. You're brainstorming every day.

You're doing research. Like, what was it? No, not really. Like basically one person would come in with some inspiration like, hey, I saw this. This is crushing it. Or you ever noticed this problem? And then we would quickly try to build a prototype, take it to market and see what happens, see if it stuck.

See if we got momentum. He's like, but more often than not, he's like honestly, like, I don't know, like 20 to 30% of the days we would just come in. We just weren't inspired. And we weren't going to work on something that we didn't feel inspired by. So we would just play FIFA for like five hours and then we would all go home. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, we were literally, if we just didn't feel it, like if the idea wasn't solid that we didn't feel like there was something.

there, we didn't want to busy ourselves and occupy ourselves with a not good idea. Because then that would at least, it's like dating somebody bad. You don't have the door open to meet somebody amazing. And so he's like, we would just play FIFA. And he's like, while we're playing FIFA, we would just talk. Then we would order food. Then we would talk some more. And we're just giving ourselves like, relax the brain to try to come up with ideas.

He's like, then Adam went to a conference. And this was like right when like iPhone had like, you know, taken off. And he's like, came home. And he's like, forget it. We're doing an ad network, but for mobile phones. He's like, mobile phones are going to be big. They don't really have good ad networks. I know how to do an ad network.

That's what we're doing. And he's like, because they knew that business, he's like, he told me exactly what to build. It was like, this is a dashboard that I need. This is how this product is going to work. This is the speed that you need to serve the ad in. And if you can't get it under that speed, we got to like figure something else out. And they just executed like crazy at that point. And it just took off.

And they were doing hundreds of millions of dollars at that time, very, profitably and it was amazing. I'll tell you one other story that, you know, kind of shifted my thinking. That was one about not occupying yourself, not busying yourself in order to let a good, create some space for maybe a good idea to land. The other thing that stood out was,

somewhere along the way, Furcon likes to take these like young engineers under his wings. So like, he met these guys. They were kind of interesting. He's like, you need to move to Silicon Valley. Come live on my couch. And he convinced him. Like, just come sleep on my couch.

Don't worry too much. Just come out here for a few months. And of course, that turned into, they just lived there permanently in San Francisco. They ended up getting to YC. And we let them work out of our office. And you can learn something from anybody. These were 20-year-old kids who had never built a business before.

But I was talking to them and I learned something really important. They were working on this idea that had started off really strong. What they were doing was they took Bitcoin miners. So anybody who had a bunch of GPU space and they were like, hey, this machine learning AI thing is going to be big. This was back in like 2016, maybe 2017. They're like machine learning is going to be big. And these GPUs are really good at running machine learning jobs. So there's Bitcoin miners who have excess capacity because maybe Bitcoin price would go down.

Then it wasn't profitable to mine. Or they just bought out extra and they wanted something more steady. And he was like, he posts on Reddit, he was like, hey, if you have excess GPUs, if you're a minor, you have excess GPUs listed on our network. And we will get machine learning customers for you to run jobs, almost like an AWS competitor. Crazy. And overnight, like they got like so much supply of GPU. It was insane. Like, there was thousands of submissions.

And one day, people were super excited. Like, Reddit comments were like, oh, this is amazing. Let me know how I can help. Like calling him, finding his phone number and calling him. And I was like, wow, this is kind of incredible. And then what happened was a few months later, he was kind of down on the idea. And I was like, what happened? He goes, well, the supply side was amazing.

It was like I stepped on a landmine. He just blew up. And he's like, but the demand side doesn't have that same effect. He's like, but because I felt it over here, I kind of. to realize like what true demand looks like. And I remember thinking like, damn, I have never felt that land mine effect. At that time, I had just never felt that. I didn't feel that market pull that you were talking about.

If you don't know it, you kind of talk yourself into like, maybe I have it. Maybe this is, there are signals of demand. And there's the difference between like maybe it's there versus holy shit. We found something. And I wouldn't say you have to have a holy shit. You found something right away. but just seeing that in those guys kind of taught me,

what I thought was level 10 of what demand looks like for a business, for a new startup, it was actually level 6. And level 10 is what these guys experienced where you have like a half-baked Google form and still people are like pre-paying you for the service type of thing.

Oh, okay, that's what 10 looks like. Now at least I know what that looks like. That's what a great market looks like. And what I have right now is a lukewarm market, which is why I ended up having like a lukewarm success out of that business. Really hard to find that 10 out of 10 market, but yeah, that is what we had.

And I think his Mark Andreessen says, if you find that 10 out of 10 market, which is kind of a unicorn, right, that the amazing market will pull the right product out of the company. So for us, we just identified mobile apps as the market. That was amazing.

But we actually tried out six different business ideas like we created landing pages for each. In the space of something like two, three weeks, we iterated on six different ideas and the right idea, the market pulled it out with us. Dude, that's so good. I love hearing these stories. Jack, I love seeing you.

Yeah, I'm great to see as well. You look good. Thank you. Wait, before we go, Jack, do you have a book recommendation for me? Last time you came on here, you talked about the guy who unschooled himself or was unschooled as a kid.

I thought that was a really cool book. Do you have any new book recommendations for me? Yeah, one that I read that. It actually, you could read it in like an hour or so, and then you guys might find interesting because we just talked about coming out with the business idea, right? And this, I think, actually is more helpful at our stage of life where you maybe have one's success. And many founders who've sold their company have a midlife crisis.

They don't know what to work on next. And this book is by Deepak Chopra. And it's called The Seven Spiritual Walls of Success. And I thought it was really interesting. So it's basically saying that his theory, if you like, he's saying everyone is put on earth to fulfill some purpose. And everyone has like a unique skill or skills and attributes that they can uniquely use to kind of serve the rest of society. And he's like, you have found your goal when you blend your talent with service to others. And I thought it was really interesting.

And actually maybe just, you know, if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I had just read Tony Robbins book, but I did actually feel like Tony Robbins is perhaps the ultimate embodiment of that. I didn't know this, but Tony then found he had like a tumour on his brain that has made his body released like loads of human growth hormone. And so basically that's why he's six foot seven. He has, he's just a massive giant growth spurt. but he also feels like he has abundant energy. And he's kind of using that unique attribute that it's very rare to have this tumor on the brain. Like the doctor told him, dude, you should act on this and get rid of it.

But there's a risk you might then get lower energy. It's like, dude, I'm not having surgery then because this is my unique thing, the abundant energy. And he uses that to do these 15-hour whatever sentimentars. So that's his thing, that's unique to the world. and in his kind of serving humanity in his own way, it seems that he's just really passionate about this meals for America. So I don't know if he's hit the goal, but he was on track to hit donating a billion meals for this feed America thing. And during COVID, he donated like $10 million to help it get through that point. So I kind of felt like he was a unique embodiment of that.

And then even with you guys then as well, like I think like when I was talking to like Ben Levy, you know, Sean, you're thinking. about what attributes are unique to you that you can kind of uniquely serve the world. And so that book I felt was interesting and a quick read. What do you think that is for you? Well, for me, I think it is where I've naturally ended up doing this digital detox, whatever, center place because I have the capital to do it. Like I'm meeting a lot of people trying to do physical projects, and then they just fail because of fundraising and capital.

stuff. So I think I have the capital and I have the experience of experiencing burnout and I'm just uniquely passionate. I've been to this place in Bali like 10, they're basically like, do this as your second home. Like you come here so much. So I just have that unique insight about how this can help humanity. And that's maybe why I'm driving the project and I'm doing it for kind of helping humanity not profit as number one. So I feel that I kind of just naturally have, uh, through reflection and etc. arrived at this place. Deepak Chopra said the way to find your unique purpose if you're struggling.

He said it comes to you in the space between your thoughts. And he said like, which is maybe not hard to action, but he's like, if you're really struggling to find your purpose, etc., you should spend more time in nature and just in a quiet environment and just feel and it will come to you. But I kind of feel that, yeah, for me, it's kind of. but organically, I'd been thinking about this for many years and arrived at this place. That's cool, man. I'll check that book out.

Thank you, dude. We appreciate you doing this. You're the best, and that's it. That's the pod. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On a road, let's travel, never looking back.