My First Million - Laird Hamilton: The Big Wave Surfer Who Built a +$10 Million Business Empire

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Episode 485: Sam Parr (https://twitter.com/theSamParr) talks with Laird Hamilton (https://lairdhamilton.com) about his well-rounded approach to life, the story behind launching Laird Superfood, why he’s such a viscous competitor, what vices he’s struggled with in the past, his thoughts on Bryan Johnson’s longevity protocol, and much more. Want to see more MFM? Subscribe to the MFM YouTube channel here. — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com/ Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Try Shepherd Out - https://www.supportshepherd.com/ • Shaan's Personal Assistant System - http://shaanpuri.com/remoteassistant • Power Writing Course - https://maven.com/generalist/writing • Small Boy Newsletter: https://smallboy.co/ • Daily Newsletter - https://www.shaanpuri.com/ — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (3:00) How Laird describes himself (5:30) How Laird got into entrepreneurship (10:20) Laird’s revenue streams (11:30) Reaction to Laird’s Superfood stock plummeting (21:15) Other business ideas Laird considered pursuing (29:00) Laird’s epic house & training regimen (36:15) Most impressive athlete Laird’s trained with (39:20) Being a viscous competitor (43:00) Laird’s vices (48:30) Thoughts on Bryan Johnson (54:15) Laird's relationship with technology (56:25) How Laird tracks his personal finances (1:03:40) Laird’s 2023 goals (1:06:45) Laird’s book recommendations (1:12:25) Why the world’s so soft right now  — Links: • XPTLife - http://xptlife.com/ • Life After Life - https://tinyurl.com/35w8227v • Embrace Fearlessly the Burning World - https://tinyurl.com/yckeyysm • The Psychology of Totalitarianism - https://tinyurl.com/2mksfrds • The Trap - https://tinyurl.com/y77bsj53 • The Wager - https://tinyurl.com/pvu9drrb • The Heart of the Sea - • Undaunted Courage - https://tinyurl.com/ya6zkw6k • Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. — Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. — Other episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto • #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

I used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training. So I'd be like, oh, yeah, I can drink Pinot No No, you know, bottle, two bottle, three bottles, no problem. Eat dinner, go to sleep, wake up, 5 a.m. train like an animal. What's the problem? No problem. There's a problem. I don't see a problem. You could train hungover?

Oh, yeah, like an animal. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. Yeah, man. We're live. We just, we get things going and I can kind of fill you in. You probably don't know anything about who we are, do you?

No, but that's not unusual. I don't know much about anything, really. Good. Hey, same. I mean, I've learned about you. I mean, I've, this podcast is called My First Millions. Basically, I owned a fairly successful and big media company that I sold. And one of our products was this podcast.

and it's listened to by millions of people a month, and it's mostly a business podcast. I'm a health nut and a health nerd. I was a former college athlete. So I'm going to talk to you all about, like, Laird's superfood and some of your businesses and stuff like that. That's where we're going to spend most of the time. But the reason why I wanted to have you on

was because we have people, we normally don't have guests. Normally it's my co-host, Sean, who's not here. And someone was asking us, like, who's your dream guest? And I was like, man, Laird Hamilton. That's who I want. And they were like, why? And I was like, he, I had my description as to why I liked you best, but you said it in another interview a while back.

You said something like, your life is like a wheel and like business is one spoke. Health is another spoke. Relationships is another one. And like, there's all these spokes and like they all have to be nice in order to make this whole wheel work. And I was like, oh, man, that describes best why I like you because, you know, I like making money. I like being fit. I like having a lovely, lovely relationship with my wife. I like doing all this stuff.

And so I'm pumped to talk to you. I'm normally never nervous to talk to anyone, but you're like when the first, maybe you're, you and Andrew Schuberman made me nervous to talk to because like, I admire you guys and I look up to you guys. Well, I appreciate that.

I'm thankful for that. I was talking to some friends telling them how I'm pumped that you're coming on and most people know who you are. But then for the people who don't, I was like, well, you know, he's done a lot of things. So I don't even know how to describe you.

I was like, he started as like a surfer and then like a big wave surfer, then did some modeling. And I always told my friends, I'm like, he's a hunk. You probably recognize his face. He's a hunk. His face is all like, because you're, you like represented this quintessential surfer. But then you evolved where you and your wife now are quite popular because you guys have this almost Zen-like attitude. And so a lot of people like me, I turn to you just to hear like what's your advice on living. You've also started layered superfood.

You have another fitness brand. What would you say is like where are you now? And how do you kind of describe yourself in a sentence or two as to kind of your professional existence? I always, you know, because of Hawaii, the way we grew up, there was a lot of, you know, there's a, I would say segregation, but I think there's a lot of, just a lot of friction because you have all these different cultures. And I, so my favorite description is somebody goes, well, you know, like, where are you from or something? And I go, well, I'm a human from Earth.

So I'm a human from Earth. And if you're something different, then we should probably sit down and have an incredible conversation. But otherwise, let's get past that and then get into like, you know, what are these other things that we do, you know? And I think it's, I think none of us are what we do. We are, we are who we are. And then we do these other things.

But I do like, I mean, listen, I'm the water. sports and and fitness and and and health and wellness is you know I've kind of made a career out of that and so I do like I've been fortunate to do that that's been a been a beautiful thing but I mean I am concerned about you know being healthy and and living a healthy lifestyle and you know being a good example for my children being you know having a good relationship I just I just know I feel best when I'm when I'm when I have all those things yeah I always knew you I mean I remember watching the was it writing giants and a few and a few other movies with you in it and that's how I knew of you and then I learned about the layered superfood the creamer and I was like oh this is great so I've been

a I've been a customer for years but I never would have paid you as like a business guy I remember seeing you maybe he's on some talk shows or something like that where you had this like electric golf caddy. Golf board. Golf board. Yeah, the golf board. That was awesome. And I'm like, well, he's just like tinkering and inventing.

And then I started looking at, then I saw Larry Superfoods go public. And I was like, and I remember reading the report. I was like, oh, shit. Like, I think when you went public, it was doing like something like 40 million a year in sales. And I think it went public at a $400 million market cap. And I was like, oh, man, I never would have pictured this guy as like doing this stuff. what, what kind of, I know that it was, you, you were just tinkering with these mixes and a buddy of you,

a buddy of yours was like, all right, let's actually do this thing. But did you always kind of consider yourself interested in going into business or was that just, what the hell, let's just try it? No, I mean, listen, early in my career, early in my career in surfing, I, I, I just, I looked at, like, you know, where the money was. Like, where's the money? in surfing and at the at the time it was in the apparel um it was in the apparel business and so i went at kind of uh i would say 18 19 i got exposed to the apparel business went used to work in downtown los angeles in a in a in a a a sweatshop learning from a korean guy that came to america with 38 dollars in his pocket and had a 10 million dollar sweatshop business making

and denim jeans and kind of learned the whole cut and sew garment business and and got to expose to every aspect of it. You know, I think because of the, because I didn't ever really participate in the conventional aspect, you know, the tour of surfing, I was always kind of, you know, kind of rogue in the sense that I focused on big wave riding. I wanted to be a big, you know, I wanted to kind of, I thought that that for me was the, that was the thing I was intrigued by. that was the thing I was best suited for.

There wasn't a lot of ways to, there wasn't a platform, let's say for me as an athlete. It wasn't like, you know, NBA or NFL where you got this huge platform, you go play. And your wife was volleyball. So you guys were both like,

you're both like giants and small fields, which I always, I'm like, dude, that's crazy. They turned not even just surfing, but big wave surfing, which is still cool,

but it's tiny. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, I know both of them. I knew you both individually. Yeah. Well, we had to, and I think that forced us to be more creative and, you know, and do what we had to do.

I always say subsidize it, you know, like normally, you know, you subsidize your surfing with maybe some excavation work or something. You know, you do some other, you do another job. Surfers go work at restaurants. I mean, they do whatever they can so they could be in the ocean. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, laying bricks. Exactly. Exactly.

So you just do whatever you do to subsidize your love. But, and if you can try to take both of them, you know, if you can. can turn your work in, you know, or your passion into your work. That's a beautiful thing. But we've had to be creative. I think both Gabby and I have always had to be creative in our career just because we were in such niche sports that it forced us to be a little bit more entrepreneurial in general. We just, with our, you know, it's whether we were, you know, she modeled, I modeled early on. I mean, I did some film work. I mean, I do, we do what we had to, you know, we do what we have to do. And then that kind of, you know, we've had sponsors, and I think in the evolution of an athlete,

you have a tendency to depending on your brand and, and your, you know, and what you've, you know, what you've done. I think you evolve into wanting to kind of be your own sponsor at the end, right? And we've been real selective. And I mean, it's been, I think that that's been a, it's contributed to our longevity, but it's also been something that's encumbered us a little bit because we just, just won't do, you know, we won't just endorse and promote any, anything for money. It just, we've been pretty cautious about things that reflect our authenticity, things that

are real to us. And so, you know, and I think that's what led us to a lot of these, these, you know, the situation. I mean, with Lared Superfood, especially, like, I just wouldn't do other, you know, energy drinks and other stuff that just isn't good for you. You got to promote good shit. No, exactly. And I, and I'm because of my surfing and some of the feats that I've done and the innovations I've done. I have some people that look up to me. And so I look at that as a responsibility to conduct myself in a certain way. I want to do that anyway for my own thing. So it's a little selfish in one sense. But, but, you know, like like again, Laird Superfood or XPT or, you know, even Laird apparel. These are things that, you know, reflect who I am. and and you know it's like not every single not every single you know everything in Laird Superfood is something that that I love I don't make you know I don't want every flavor because I have to make flavors yeah I saw like an interview where someone was like so what flavors do you

like you know like I drink this one and they're like whoa I like this one you go I hate that one or something like I don't I don't drink that one I like this one yeah but you have to make stuff for people you know you have to make stuff for everybody right right right Right. I mean, for me, I feel like the more successful the company can be the more impact I can have. And are those the three like major revenue streams, which is the superfoods. It's XPT. XPT and clothing. Is that like your three main things? Yeah, I mean, I'm always doing other other stuff too. I mean, I do, I do speaking stuff. You know, we have other sponsors that we work with. And so, you know, those like media. Just like that would be.

the media category. Yeah, there's media. There's media. Yeah. I have a farm. I have a farming project right now that I'm working on as well. And then, and then, and then there'll be some, you know, I work with Gab, both Gabby and I work

with Land Rover. I work with Bremont watches. So I have some, there's media and then there's like some other sponsorship endorsement stuff that continues on, which, you know, I think, I think part of the reason why that stuff continues on at this point in my career. just because, first of our authenticity, and I'm continuing also to pursue athletic achievements as well. So I'm still doing that stuff.

And so that kind of, so there's, you know, again, there's a lot of a lot of spokes in the wheel. I remember I saw this interview where you're talking about, like, taking the company public and you're like, we got to go there and ring the bell. And it was just so much work and all this paperwork. and I'm shocked that anyone can do this. And at first, you guys were flying high.

Things are going well. As of late, the stock has been crushed. Do you, like, what are those emotions going through, like, right now when it's gotten crushed? And do you regret taking it public? Because it seems like a good business. I mean, you're doing good revenues. I think this year, the growth, it didn't work out this year. I just read one of your guys' most recent reports.

I think you changed CEOs. what are the emotions now where things are changing? I mean, right now it's a tough world. We're not alone. I mean, so that's kind of nice. It'd be like if it was, everything was booming and then you were having trouble, you might be a little bit like,

well, what are we doing wrong? So there's some of that. I mean, I wouldn't change a bit of it. I mean, I could say, listen, coming from my background and my relationship with like being patient, and, you know, crashing and wrecks and all my, like, all the stuff that I've gone through, hard to, I'm going to be hard to phase.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, my family's healthy. I'm healthy. We're, we're good. You know, it's like I tell Gabby, I go, you know, we were good. We're good. Now, we're going to be good. Like, it's all.

Are you, are you guys having, like, conversations when you're, like, did you have a significant amount of your net worth tied up into the company? I mean, well, it's, I mean, listen. this the stock value alone, it was, was substantial. So it's, but again, it's counting chickens before they hatch. And so, and I'm not, that's not my world. I'm not, that's not, I'm not that's not, I'm not that, that, because I realize that life is so temporary that if you think you can somehow, and that, and that you really don't have the kind of control you think you have, everybody, I mean, so my, my, my, my, my, the university I went through, the university of, you know, a big wave riding,

or the University of the Ocean or the University of the Hard Knocks, you just have a different perspective. So I've been, you know, of course, would I love the stock to be going through the ceiling? Absolutely. But I wouldn't change going public. I wouldn't go back and redo it because the fact is, is that that experience, right, at the end of the day, that experience of going through that process, doing the roadshow, doing 90 Zoom, one-hour Zooms over a three-week period all day long.

every day and just all this stuff that we did and and and and just that knowledge you just can't unless you've been through that you know no people can't tell can't talk to you like they they can say oh yeah what's you know or I know what it's like well no you don't know what it's like unless you've been through that process and and and so you can't really appreciate it and and so for me I feel like that was an incredible school of not and an experience that you know if there's anything you can take with us. There's a great friend of ours who's a woman judge from the South. And she always says to us, invest in experiences. Because if there's anything that you might be able to take from you when you do depart this earth, when you die, you know, it may be that. I mean, you're not going to take it anything

else. So none of this other stuff's coming with you, not the value and the money and the car house and all the stuff that none of that stuff's coming with you the only thing that's going to come with you is the possibly could be these experiences that you've gone through and so for me I feel like what an incredible thing and we're we're the seat the new CEO we have in there is incredible um this is only it's a little bit like because and I've and I've done some pretty brutal uh endurance things in my career um and and I and I and I I know what when you're digging deep and and and and and and I and I I know what when you're digging deep and and you know that's where all the that's where all the the building comes from right that's where all the character building and the polishing of the stone happens in when it's when you're you know down and

so for me i'm just like been here before probably be here again no problem i mean here we here we go so it's for me i feel like this is this is a little bit more like the rough like the i would say the refining, you know, like you're getting refined right now. And so it's only going to help us make everything tighter, make our, you know, what we need to do better. Because if you're not getting bumped a little, if you're not getting pushed, then there's no reason, you know, I give you an analogy of like a professional team. You know, you have this beautiful team that you built and you go and you have an incredible season, but then you lose in the finals.

and then the next season they break the team up. And they're like, well, you could have easily won, but you just, you just, you broke it up because you, and the winning and losing, it's, it's, I mean, the difference is nothing. The difference is nothing. Yeah, it's, so, so yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, my biggest thing is just, I, I need this business to be successful because the stuff's awesome. I need it.

I need it. I need it for my friends. I need it for everybody who loves it. I like, so that's the biggest, you know, that's our biggest, our biggest, you know, for me, that's the most important thing is that that we continue to, to supply the people that we do and we continue to get new people in there. And, you know, I think right now everybody's getting squeezed, you know, I think there's a big squeeze on the whole, you know, on the whole system. So, you know, that's, I mean, this is, this is when the, this is when the tough guys get going. This is when the, you know, and our new CEOs and, you know, a Hunter Miller, he's a merit, like he's a long distance runner. So he knows how to, he knows how to grind. So, well, you, I read the story about how you used to make this stuff, and you're using

turmeric and everything. You're just making us, making what is now layered superfood at home. How much capital did you invest to get its store ready and about how long did that take? it was pretty pretty it didn't take i mean we you know the unusual thing about the business was is that i mean could have been a couple 20 30 grand or something like that at the most and that but we went online first that's why it was really not didn't cost us much to start we made uh you know a powdered version of my original recipe and then and then about the third or fourth rendition through that uh we you're just in there looking like you're mixing like you're mixing like Coke. You just got like, you probably just had some scales at home and a little zip like bag.

And then, yeah, exactly. One then, and then, and then this, this is it. And then, and then, and then, and my friend that I was working with Paul Hodge was like a startup, a really, and I had been working with him on the golf board, on another project. And, and so, you know, we, and we had, what we did, we just started online, which was fortunate. Like, do you remember your first years of sales? What's that? Do you remember your first year's sales? Oh, I don't, I don't probably. I mean, I think it happened fairly quick, but, you know, 50, 100 grand or something like that. I don't know, something pretty quick, but it's, but it happened real quick.

It was like, you know, right away, it was like, okay, five, 10, 50, you know, it was like, we just marched into, you know, probably 100, 100, 150, something like that within or even, even, even a little bit more after probably a year. I mean, if you counted like making samples, you know, playing with it, getting everything, you know, packet, getting some packages of it, going online, getting the people, that whole process. If you get to count that within the year, yeah, something like that. Nothing, nothing quick. But, I mean, the traction happened quickly because good stuff.

People put, and I, and I was able to tap into kind of a smaller group of, you know, friends. I would say friends and following that. that was available to us. And that, that helped us. I think it would have been a little different if we were just starting from scratch with no,

with no, uh, kind of nobody there to do stuff with. And we got a lot of, and we got a lot of response to we were, we had a real inner, uh, I would say a good group that was interactive.

Like they would, oh, try this one. Oh, we don't like that one. You know, that was engaged with us that helped us. And that was a big piece of it.

That we had customers that were kind of more engaged. with helping us kind of refine things. I think that was also very useful in the beginning. Well, you timed it perfectly. So, like, right now we're in the thick of, like, a health trend. Like, you know, partially because, like, if you go to my Instagram feed, it's like you and, like, all ripped dudes, like, you know, they're like an ice bass now, which I do.

And, you know, it's all knees over toes. Like, it's like, we're in like, it's become cool now to be. healthy and like but you were talking about and um i read how you were like dude we've been using ghee for 20 years gis popular now you've been doing a lot of stuff that uh is like considered eccentric 20 years ago which is now not quite normal but it's more normal you also said that um you're like i'm obsessed with ideas and like figuring out what can be uh what's going to work what's not going to work were there any other ideas other than some of the than what is now superfood was there any other ideas that you were tinkering with where you're like man i think this this this

thing that I'm doing on a day-to-day basis or this food I'm consuming or this trend that I'm or this thing that I'm doing now will become more popular and I should maybe pursue that well I mean listen stand-up paddling I mean I don't know if anybody knows what stand-up paddling is but I start I mean I did that for eight years alone like that that thing and that thing was the fastest growing sport in the world for a while like it's it's everywhere in the all in the whole planet I mean as far as a sport itself um as a discipline. I mean, foiling, foiling is another thing that I was doing. Like, we're the first guys to really stand and then we're the first guys to ride that you realize that you could ride,

ride waves with foils. And now it's, you got foil magazines and there's 10 different disciplines. And for those people that don't know what a foil is, it's an airplane that rides under water that that is attached to a board above. So you're, and I know people have seen them, you know, at this point you've seen some either an electric version or some i mean that's what the electric one yeah america's cups and all the boats have gone that that direction as well i mean most of my stuff has come in sport um i have a you know i i mean you always have some funny ideas that that you know that the there's a there's going to be three customers or maybe four you know i mean xpt is another a big you know a big i mean there's some stuff in xpt i have this pool training system that that i've

working on for a while that still hasn't really gained traction. I mean, it's gaining traction, but again, it's- But the breathing part of it, I think you have like a breathing part on the app. And like, I know a lot of people who do that. Yeah. I mean, what's the app? How much does that cost? Or is it all free?

No, there's different pieces of the app. There's different stages of it. You can go to XPTLife.com. And then if you want the breathing app, you know, there's different, and I don't know exactly what they're charging for the app. the app right now because we've just came out with a specific breathing one. But there's, there's a bunch of different, you know, there's different levels of your participation. And we do a camp, too. We do like a two and a half day seminar. But you know what I have, I say about innovation

and ideas is, you know, it's just a new application of an old idea. I mean, you think for anyone to have what they would think would be an original thought at this point in humanity is insanity. How? How could you have an original thought, given the fact that there has been billions of minds over, you know, hundreds of thousands of years that, and also even in civilizations that we don't really even know anything about. So the thing that you'd have a new, you know, kind of some unique thought, I think it's more about these hybrids, these combining existing things, maybe some new materials kind of or some new stuff changes the way. I mean, listen, my whole thing around like, for example, with Laird, with Superfood is really based on using

plants in the whole form and not separating and taking, you know, elements out and concentrating it or trying to figure. I mean, a lot of that's based on really trying to figure out how to get a patent and control and own. I feel like, listen, nature made it. perfect for your body. Why don't you use it in those ratios? And it seems like whenever we don't do that as close to nature as we can, there's always a problem. There's always a problem whenever you're giving the system something that it can't really relate to. And I think that that's, you know, I mean, at least in in the superfood side of things, that's a big, that's kind of a philosophy that we use to help govern that that brand. I mean, part of the reason why I think,

think there's such a crazy health thing. It was going that way anyway, but I think people started to realize after the, you know, I mean, since the pandemic happened and that being healthy is really an advantage, you know, and I think because we have so much, like we're in somewhat of a health crisis, just given, you know, diabetes and obesity and just all this stuff that's, that's been happening. I think that the importance, again, back to what I said earlier about putting back, value on things, you know, you put a value on eating really good food, you're going to have really good food. If you just sort of like, hey, just get that in, you know, I don't care what it is. You know, let's just, you know, go through a drive-through and pick it up and just eat it because we're hungry and we want to get full versus, no, I want something that really tastes amazing and has, you know, and is nutrient dense and all that stuff.

So again, I think we give the value to the stuff and that will bring, you know, that'll bring the level and the quality of it. but if you don't make it important, then, and I just, I mean, yeah, I just think that, and then I have a philosophy about stuff that you do every day anyway, like things that you do every day are accumulative, right? There's an accumulation. I mean, there was a technique they used to use to kill the kings in the old days is you just give them a little arsenic, right? And then eventually, you know, in a year or two, all of a sudden the king croaks and dies,

but it was never enough to just be, it wasn't poison, but it was just an accumulation. accumulation. And I think, you know, I think that that's true with fitness. I think it's true with, with, you know, with your diet. If you're just, you know, if you're, if you're eating a little bit of bad food every day, that's an accumulative thing. If you're eating a little good food every day, you know, and then that's an accumulative thing. And I think that's your, I think that there's an opportunity to, to really have an impact on your, on your health. If you're just, you know, hey, I'm doing, I'm doing some training every day. I'm, you know, I'm getting a good night's sleep every day. I'm getting, I'm getting, eating good food every day. It's like this stuff over time is going to pay

dividends. And it's, and it's a, I mean, I, I this thing that, that really speaks back to the philosophy about being patient and being, you know, you're going to, I told you the story when I worked in downtown L.A. with that, with that Korean guy, Mr. Chun. What brand, what brand were they making stuff for? He was making oxygen. He was building guests and green line. So he's building all guest jackets that were made out of like old Levi jeans they were they take jeans and they'd sew them all together and then they'd stone wash it was like a just like a big factory with Koreans and he's just paying them nothing I mean well really a sweatshap. Yeah but exactly. Yeah but I mean probably paying them and paying them enough that they were able to support their families and

and but he was had like I said big you know tumbling washers and dryers with pumice stone but I'd sit in the end and try to pick stuff out like I want to pick some wisdom out of this guy. So when I'm sitting there one day and he'd always drink Miller, Millers, he would drink Millers, which is the worst beer ever. But that's another story. That's what I used to drink, Miller Light. Miller Light, that was my drink.

It had high alcohol content and low carbs. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, because that's so great. It's the worst. But he said, you know, he goes, oh yeah, when good times here, don't be too happy because after good time, bad time comes. But when bad times here, don't be too sad because after bad time, good time come again. And I'm like, there's some wisdom there.

I mean, that means technically you'd be numb if you didn't react to things. But there is wisdom in the, hey, you know, when bad times here, don't be too sad because after bad time, good time come. And when you're in the good time, don't be too happy. So in a way, I think there's something to be said about that. Can I ask you about your house? I've studied or I've seen your house in the setup and I've talked to a ton of friends. Like, oh, yeah, we went to Laird's, which is you're like, you're like, you're like,

De Bono, you know, you're a one man, you're a one-name guy now, which is cool. But they're like, oh, we went to Laird and we did the pool thing and it was amazing. And like one of the things that you've done is like you're living like every, like many men's fantasy, which is to have this amazing house that's like community and, uh, you have people coming and going and it's all on your terms. And I think it's pretty cool. Um, what year did you buy that house and how much did it cost? Would you like, you know when that was? I mean, it was, well, I don't know, I don't remember exact figure, but it's cheap for Malibu. But we've been here for 25 years, 20, 26 years.

So, you know, what's the values of, you know, I mean, things for a million dollars, 25 years ago or 25 million now? Was that a big deal for you at the time? It was a big purchase. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, when Gabby, when I, when we looked at that house, because it was, the guy had built it for his, the guy who built the house, built it for himself.

And, and he was a Greek engineer, the one here in Malibu. because I also, you know, I'm from Hawaii and so we have a home there. Yeah. We just, we just finished during the pandemic. But he was built it for his family. And then he and then during the process, I think him and his wife kind of got divorced, which happens a lot to people because building houses is very stressful. Like it's a very stressful thing.

But I said to Gabi, I go, I showed her the house that she looked at the price. I go, don't look at the price. Look at the house. Just think if you want the house. Like before you look at the house. the price to let it affect whether you want the house or not. Look at the house because, you know, sometimes I think we get in the way of, oh, well, that's how much it is. I can't get that and dictate instead of, well, no. Let's see if you want it or not. Like, why would it even matter what the price was

if you didn't want it anyway? So first, let's see if you want it. So we went, we came and looked at the house. And she was like, oh, it's amazing. And I stood across at this house. I stood across the street. I didn't come into the house and I just looked and I could see the ocean. I could see this wave that I love the surf. And so I just, and I was like, I love this house. And she's like, well, you haven't been in the house yet. And I go, like, I don't even. I don't even need to go in the house.

I'm good. If you're good, I'm, because I could be on a, you know, I could have been on a, you know, in a tent right there looking at the, that. So that, you know, the, what do they say about real estate and rest, probably restaurants, but real estate is and houses location, location. location, location, location, location. Everything's about location. If people are trying to buy things for value or keep value or have an increased value,

it's all about location. I mean, you can always change the house. You can rebuild the house, but you can't change where it is. And so I think, you know, that's one thing about when you grew up in Hawaii and you live in an environment where people work all year to save up to come on vacation for one week. and then you live in that environment, you kind of, I mean, if you have your head screwed on correctly,

you realize how fortunate that is, you know, that that that's a fortunate thing to be, and that those are to be cherished, those places that people seek out to just, you know, be able to go there for a week and you live there, that's a pretty fortunate thing, but also that you need to realize that that means

it's a special place, you know. I always see videos, of these athletes coming and going. How many days a week are you actually having people come and do those workouts in the pool? Well, Gabby does her. She has training in the morning. It depends on the time of the year. You know, normally, most of this is in the summertime because you have football, basketball.

A lot of times it's off-season. Guys come. You know, I have just, I'm connected with a lot of different athletes and a lot of different coaches and a lot of different physios. And so people, you know, guys get hurt. And then they're coming out of an injury. and then they'll send them to come see to see you know to see us uh are you charging them or is it's just like you're just doing it for fun no it's no it's no because it if you if if if you charge people then

it's the the dynamic changes you know and we really we like to i like to have that sign that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone like kind of thing like i think that that's a better that's a better relationship i mean we don't have to we don't we don't need to so it's It allows us, we have the luxury to be able to not have to charge because we're able to, you know, there's other ways to earn a living. And so, but it does set up a really nice environment. I have, like I have a young, a young man that's been living with us and training, and learning about training.

He's becoming, you know, very versatile and just advanced because he has such exposure. And so, like, he'll, we'll get guys. to come in and guys that want to get work, you know, worked with. I'll have him. And we have other trainers with XPT and we have other people that we know that, hey, if somebody needs a trainer and they want to run through a lot of this, the stuff that we do, we'll, you know, what do we say? We have people for that. But yeah, we have people for that that that do that. And then the rest of it, you know, normally we kind of have a communal training, you know, like on, on certain days of the week. we have some kind of regulars that kind of come and train on those days.

You know, we do like it'll be maybe lifting and stuff and dry land stuff on, you know, like Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturdays and then Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays can be the pool stuff depending on on who it is and what we do. And it's not a lot. I mean, there's at times there could be a fair amount of people, you know, the stuff that we do does weed out some of the people just because it's, you know, we're, we're, we're here to work and it's, and it's, and we have a, you know, a big, probably the most important piece of it is this community, right, that we have a little, that we have a really nice community that, that that's what you

realize that we all are looking for, right? We're all looking for a little tribe to belong to. I mean, that's, I would, I would blame, I wouldn't say blame, but I'd say that that was part of the success of something like CrossFit, that it was really had less to do with the workout itself as it did that you were part of a tribe and you had a community and people that were like-minded, that were training with you and so on. So I think that's a big piece of it. I think that, you know, that we need that you, I mean, listen, some days you're just down and you're like, hey, you know, I don't feel like doing anything today. And then somebody's out there, okay, ready to go. And then you're like, okay, let's go. And then you just, so, you know, and vice versa,

they might not be and you are. And so I think that we, we kind of, lift each other up. I think that that's part of, I mean, we humans are communal creatures and I think we operate well that way as long as we have like-minded people. I was looking at some old photos of folks in your pool. I think there was like a whole bunch of, yeah, you had a whole bunch of basketball players, like Joe Knoa, Grant Hill, a few other people. Who have you worked out with back there that has put you in awe of their fitness or their athletic ability. I mean, listen, I get so many crazy guys. I think, I mean, my problem is I probably have a skewed bar.

Like my, you know, I don't, because I'm with normally, I'm always with all these freaks, right? So it's a little bit like hard to out freak the freak, you know? Like you, when you got, you know, when you guys got, you got, you got, you know, guys like Christopher or, or, or, you know, or Jalen or, I mean, just, you just have the level of athlete that you have is, I mean, I think there's some,

there's always, you know, the, the people that surprise you are probably people you haven't heard of that, that come there, that, that have a certain mindset because some of the pool stuff that we do can be, it's stressful,

you know, and so sometimes, you, you, you'd think you'd get this big, super strong guy and he freaks out. And then you get some kind of more frail, you know,

lady that, that just has a, you know, mental giant and can just handle, you know, being in the ice and drowning in the deep end. And, you know, so it doesn't, I think it's pretty, uh, that's why it's kind of neutralizing. There's a, a neutralizing aspect to the environment because it's, first of all, you're always going to have somebody that, you know, you're always going to, you're always going to, you're always going to have somebody that can out you do you in something, right? You can outdo them, they can outdo you. And so our approach is more about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up, right?

You try to, and don't use other people as a reference to you. I think that's where we run in trouble, you know, we get in trouble as you start comparing. You get over there and you're like, okay, that guy's doing this. Which, what do they say? Comparison is the death of happiness? I'm not sure. But it's a thing of joy. something like that. Man, I, I've always hated that phrase when they say comparisons to

the thief of joy because I'm like, yeah, that's true. I shouldn't compare myself, but I love to compete. And so like, well, that's different, but that's different. That's different. That's different. That's different. Comparing and competing. Yeah. Like, I like seeing guys and I'm, or in business. And I'm like, this person's doing this revenue. They're at 50 million. I'm like, oh, if that dumb ass could do that, I definitely could do 70. Let's crush them. Or like, I've got a joke. I'm like, people are like, oh, you got to let go of that grudge. And I'm like, this grudge fuels everything I do. I've like,

I like, the reason I like work out hard is to like, prove my ex-girlfriend from high school that like, you were worthy. Yeah, yeah, you mean a mistake. Yeah.

Like, everything I do is because everything I do is because of a grudge. I'm like, rage is the greatest fuel on earth. And so when people say like comparisons to the thief and joy, I'm like, oh, I get so much joy proven like these idiots wrong and like,

letting a 20-year comment sit on my back for those years about how I wasn't like, you know, fit enough. successful enough. Like I love that stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you will, but you know what? Interesting because that's I, I will say, because I can relate to that. I mean, listen, a lot of what I've done is because of that. Like so, but then at a certain point, then you get to this thing and then you're like, okay, then what? Then at some point you achieve the thing you're trying to do, you prove your point, and then you're sitting there going, okay, now what? And then you're like, okay, do I have to make up a

new one or maybe I can create motivation out of, out of success or contentment or something versus. So I think there is too. I think that can be, I know for myself personally, I've gone through, you know, being driven and motivated to achieve certain things because of, you know, frustration and proving to the world and, and, you know, and all those things that I went through that drove me, but then, but then you achieve it. And then you're like, okay, now, what, you know, what am I going to do now? Like, now how I'm going to adjust to be able to continue.

And so at least in my, I can say, you know, and listen, if you're a competitor, you're a competitor. That's just a vicious. Like, for me, I think I'm, I am such a vicious competitor that, that I would, I almost, I can barely actually even compete because I just, because in, in a real, if you look at real, if you look at competition in nature and the brutality of it, like the real, like the real thing, not just these contrive things of like the real, like for real. Yeah. Then you're like, okay, well, maybe I better figure out how to constructively vent that stuff. Do you, does that, does that, does that carry over to business too? I mean, are you talking, I think Mike, I think, I think his name is Mike. You're a new CEO. Are you like, you know, we need,

I want this much profit. We need this much growth. Does that carry over to business as well? Yeah. I mean, not that way. I mean, it, you know, I mean, maybe it should, but it not that. I think it's, mine is a more, you know, mine is a patient thing. Like I have a, like, you know what my favorite term is the victory through attrition.

Yeah. Yeah, just be a cockroach. That's like, like, like the last guy's standing. Like, I'm all about that. Like, you can be like, yeah. yeah, yeah. You can have your little wins, your little wins and your little wins and all great. But I'm talking about like at the end when you're the only one left on the battlefield and everybody's laying on the ground, then you don't even have to be any good. You don't even have to be good.

You're just undisputed. You're the guy. So, and I think, I think for me, I feel like, and I'm looking at the greatest competition is life, right? The greatest competition. is life. Like you want to talk about the real game, the game, the real game, like, because all these other things, they're games, right? But the real game, the big game is life. The big game is, you know, is like the quality of like, like relationship, father, you know, how like your life, like that's the big game. That's the real game. That's why I said when I talk about the spoke, I go, yeah, business, that's one spoke. Make sure it's nice and tight, good, cool. but if you're all there, then you got these giant holes in the other spot.

I'm like, sorry, lost the game already. But you, you've not always been that way, have you? I think I read some old stuff where, like, I think your wife filed for divorce. And at one point, and you guys, like, you've thankfully made it work. I think at 0.1. Yeah. I think you, I don't remember if I read that you had a drinking problem, but I think you said that you wish you had told your younger self to quit drinking earlier.

So I don't know if that was like a problem. or not. Like, I know that you, and if I just were just to stereotype you, I'm like, I bet you were like a wild guy. Anyone, if I'm stereotyping a surfer who like goes out hard, it does everything hard, I'm like, I'm sure, I bet you picked some of your vices with that same, or you use that same energy sometimes toward vices. When did, did, were you kind of like, uh, you, you weren't always this wise, I'm sure. And what made that switch? Well, no, I mean, I, well, okay, let's, let's be, let's be clear that for sure work right sure work in process work in process now work in process then i mean i i i always you know love sleep i always like even within my i mean i the thing of like

my thing about drinking like i loved i love wine i drank i i was when i always said i had i had two french habits because i work with a french company for 20 years and i my two french habits were espresso and pinot noir and then it was like and and and like everything i do i have a tendency to do it you know in excess like if one's good then two's better so that's the mentality and so in a way but as far as like as far as kind of my i mean listen i first of all i would have never first i never gabby and i would never have gotten to be together if i didn't have a certain if i didn't have a certain I'd say calculation, morality, values. I mean, there's certain things that were,

that I've had my whole life, right? That it's since I was, since I was young. It wasn't like I got them. I had the basis of it. And then it's been just a process of refinement. Again, oh, loose spoke like, hey, you know what? This, this drinking thing's an issue because I don't have real power over it. I want to prove to myself, I do.

I come from a, you know, I always say I come from a long line alcoholics, but we all do. I think it's a human, you know, I always say being an alcoholic, it's like being a surfer. There's no one that doesn't love surfing. Well,

there's no human being that doesn't actually like alcohol. It's just whether you drink or not. I love it too. I'm, I'm 10 years sober too. Yeah. I loved it.

So I got 15 here. I got 15. But my thing was like a, you know, my mom said to me once when I was a kid, she said, if you can't be true to yourself, you can't be true to anyone else.

And so I thought, let me see. If I say, hey, I can stop drinking anytime. And then the next day I drink or the next week or the next month, then I really don't have a lot of power over it. Right. So then I want to have, so now I want to be like I want to have some power over it. And so that was a discipline thing to. And you know what? I also said all the dumbest things I ever did were when I was drinking. All the stupidest things I've ever done, usually some alcohol was somehow involved in there

because because like it says in the bottle impairs your motor skills. So, so let's not forget. So in a way, those things like in my relationship, the Rocky Times in relationship, those refined, you know, and motivate you to make changes, you know, all those things, okay, drink in the, you know, like just all these different, these things that, and there's things I'm still working on and probably will always be. but that's a continuation of trying to get better, like get, get better and not,

and which means that you're saying, hey, there's things that you think you could do better, or you could be better, or you could make changes, or you could, you know, whatever, whatever those are,

I mean, they're, you know, what do they say about sin? You know, let he without sin cast a first stone. No one seems to be able to throw one because everybody falls short. So, I mean, it's about being honest, too, like being honest with yourself and being like,

okay, what is it? What do I? What is it? What is it? Which thing? And then you know what? You just start eliminate. You start, okay, let's work on that one.

Let's work on this one. And then as you go. And so that's, I mean, I'm in that, I'm in that, in that process. And, and, and you get success. You get, you get success. I mean, I used to use the guilt from drinking. to make me feel motivated about training. So I'd be like, oh, yeah, I can drink Pinot No No Bottle, Two Bottle, Three Bottle, No Problem.

Eat Dinner, go to sleep, wake up, 5 a.m. Train like an animal. What's a problem? No problem. I don't see a problem. You can train hungover? Oh, yeah, like an animal. Oh, fuck that. You have puk in the ocean.

Using that guilt, using that guilt and prove, like a proof, like I'll prove. Let me show you what a man I am. You know, I'll show you what I can do. I hope your pool had a good filter, man. I'd be throwing up in that pool constantly. It'd be the worst. But like I said, my drinking problem had to do with wine only, never hard, you know, I mean, okay, not never hard booze, but I was pretty smart about that.

But even within that, I had, you know, there was some sort of control. But I'm just speaking in general as a thing to refine, right, as you go, let's just try to, let's try to continue to polish the stone. you're kind of going like one path down this longevity thing and healthy living thing that I love but I love freak shows I love like people who are just odd balls and a guy we had on here one time his name is Brian Johnson. Have you seen Brian Johnson from Blueprint? I mean he's like total freak show when it comes to longevity and I love that people are brave enough to do what he's doing because like you can always learn cool shit for people doing extremes. Isn't he blending his food

every day? I think Gabby did a podcast on him. Is that the guy? He's doing all tight. Yeah, that's among many things. Basically, he's like, he's like, I'll give you, I'll give you like the, the clip notes. But basically he's probably close to a billionaire. So he started a company that he sold. So he's got plenty of income and money to like be playing around. But basically he's like, I'm going to become the most tested person on planet Earth. And I'm going to try to, he goes, I'm going to try to decrease my biological age faster than my

chronological age, which obviously is going to be impossible at one point. But he was like, let's just see if I can make my body younger. even though my age gets older. And so he, like, does crazy amounts of tests where he's doing tests weekly and he's spending millions of dollars doing it. And he blogs and documents it all on his website blueprint. But some of the crazy stuff that he's doing is, he's like, well, my tests are showing that, like, this vegan diet or vegan lifestyle is working well for me.

Therefore, I am only going to eat these same three things every day. And he, like, measures the calories down to, like, the thousand. He's like, you know, it's got to be this amount of calories, this servings. The workout has to be this. And I'm like, I love that weirdos like that exists because we're going to be able to learn some cool stuff from him. Have you been paying attention to that? And what do you think about those people that are a little bit less? I mean, I don't know if he's like, I think at one point you said, science follows intuition. With him, it's like, let's go science and let's see how that makes me feel.

But have you been paying attention to that and what's your take? Well, Gabby did a show on Brian and a podcast, went and interviewed him. And so her and I had a conversation when she kind of filled me in about some of the stuff that he was doing. Did she go to his house? She did. Yeah, she didn't. She ate some of his, she ate some of his his goulash. She ate some of his, the nutty pudding. Yeah, his blended, blended, blended. And I mean, listen, you know, when you chew food, when you chew food, you create saliva that you create enzymes in your mouth that go down with the food to help digest the food. And one of the worst, if one of the ways, if you really want to become, like, allergic or have an allergy against something,

And it's just eat that alone every day all day. But that gets into, I'm into a whole, you know, I'm, I'm into, I guess for me, I just feel like you can't hack your way around biology in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, the world of my thought. And it is interesting. I think you can use hacking to support work. You know, I think, I think, first of all, I think in the diet, one of the most important things is diversity. I think that's one of the most important. I mean, the problem is, is it's hard

to not get bombarded by a bunch of, you know, things that aren't good for you as well. But, you know, through that. So it'll be, it'll be, it would be interesting to, I mean, Gabby would be a better person to have the conversation about, but I am always interested in watching. I think there's so much, uh, I don't know, he, I mean, I do appreciate that he's doing, like the guys, you, going through it, going through it, but, but as far as, you know, what, what, you know, we're, what we are and what we're doing and what we need, I'll be interested, you know, I'll be interested to see, first of all, what, what it, what it, you know, what it does. I, um, I think, more as an entertainment. That's what I'm saying. Like, I love that, like, uh, I don't know if you pay attention

to fighting, but you know who, Nate, do you watch fighting like MMA? I don't watch a lot of it. I know I have a bunch of guys I know that do it, but I'm... Yeah, I mean, I like, I always say I love a freak show. I like fighting, boxing. I mean, I love just like some crazy event. What do you think about, uh, wrestling? WWE wrestling or, uh, WWE?

I mean, I love that stuff. Do you watch that? What's that? Oh, yeah. Well, I'm a friend of mine, my friend of mine brought me to it. I never even watched it and I have a friend that really is into it. And so he brought me and I go with him. But I only, I live vicariously through him because I'm amazed just how, how into it he is, how much he knows about it.

It's just a grown-man soap opera. Soap opera. No, it's fun. I love that. It goes to our deep. It serves a purpose. Oh, yeah, it does. It goes right to the, I want to see some.

Yoke guy in his underwear. It's like fighting and arguing about shit. You know what I mean? Like, let's just like, I like me, I like weirdos. I like freaks. Just like, let it be. Well, and also people from outside really, they think, they actually think that the audience think that everything, what's going on is real. They don't realize that everybody in the audience knows exactly what's going on and they're just participating in the whole show.

And then it's all part of the whole thing. It's pretty. So, yeah, the humans are, I mean, listen, humans are entertaining and, and, you know, just watch them. When you're like, I have this, like, image in my head of what you are. and like you running your businesses. I'm like, is he like totally out of the picture on a day to day, to day basis and just talks to the CEO once a month? And I was like, actually, what's that? What would that look like?

Like, when we got on here, your wife helped set up the camera. Are you even using a computer or a phone on a daily basis? Are you totally detached? Yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not a social media, a guy. I don't spend very, I mean, listen, my, the phone for me is. communication, weather, weather and news and new stuff that, that, and when I say news, I mean, more like investigation stuff. Like, but, but I, I mean, listen, I, I'm, what's investigation stuff? Uh, just trying to understand what the truth is about whatever and everything.

So they just, it just, I'm, I, I go into, if I'm interested in something, if that, you know, if I'm interested in some political thing, I, I like to look, like, understand exactly. from my own, not just take the advice of people that are telling you about it, but actually like understand the real stuff. So I have a tendency to, but I'm just using, like I said, the thing for a tool. So I hardly, I hardly use it. I talk to Jason all the time. I talk to, you know, Vlerd Apparel, uh, the lady, you know, the lady that's, that's running that right now. Yeah, I'm, I'm in communication with these because, because it's, first of all, it's got my name on it. So it, you know, it has to do with my brand.

And we're just, we're vested in it and interested in it. So we're, I mean, all this the, I mean, I'm also, yeah,

I mean, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're multiple times a week, if not every single day, I'm communicating with those brands.

And, and, you know, either discussing, okay, promotional this or, or product development, or whatever, whatever, yeah.

So I think I told you, I had started this company and sold it when I was 30. So I was able to financially get some really nice security there. And I look at the type of life that you live where. So I also, I split time between Austin and New York. My wife's from New York. And so we spend there all the time. And I have a handful of projects that I'm working. I got a company with a CEO that runs it.

So a bit similar-ish to what you're doing, and God willing, some of them will be huge. What I'm curious about, because there aren't that many people in the situation where I want to go to and where I'm in now, but you definitely are, which is how do you break up, how do you map out your personal finances? So because you said that you have this one farm as a project, you have three or four, five different businesses right now. You have two, or who knows what you have, how much real estate. Do you just, like, is there just like one revenue stream where you're like, that's just the, like, for example, the app might have high margins. So you're like, oh, we'll just live off that.

Or media appearances, I bet you I can just pay, I can make a million bucks a year and that will be what I live off of. And then all the rest, I'm going to reinvest or I'll put it into the vanguard, just normal index fund. How does that, how do, how do you balance all your different things when it comes to a personal finance base. I mean, well, I, first of all, I have smarter people at that than me. So I have, I have, I have, I have, you know, I have people that, that, you know, I have specifically, specifically a woman that I work, that we've worked with for a very long time that does, like, you know, management, that, that sort of stuff.

I would say, uh, account, accounting and, and finance management just because that's, she's into it and and and good at it and that's what she's interested in so we we have it we have that you know that's a big a big piece of it i i think that uh you know i i think one of the i mean for me personally i don't i i think that that that can be a a such a consuming whole like that all of that stuff that you can just get swallowed into that and and lose every you know lose your connection with everything as well. I think that you have to, I, you know, well, part of it has to do with how you look at it. Like what's your, what's your, you know, what's your faith, you know, like what kind of faith do you have? What kind of

belief do you have that everything's going well or not going well? And do you think that you're going to control everything and that, you know, how much control do you think you have and all those things? I think that's a piece of my, I think of my, my philosophy. So does that mean that you just don't stress out a significant amount about finances? And like earlier you said when I bought that house, you were like, oh, that was a lot of money for us back then. But I was like, fuck it. We're doing it anyway. We'll figure it out.

Yeah. That's kind of like how you live when it comes to finances. Yeah. Which is, which I think for a lot of people, they just can't operate like that. And I think, I think for me, I just feel that just feels more, that just feels better. I just feel that, I just feel that, you know, because that, because, because. I've just, you know, I've just seen, first of all, I've had the, I've had the fortune to be exposed to a lot of wealthy people in my life, like a lot of crazy wealth and, and, and, and seeing people that had no,

nothing and all of a sudden they got everything. And I've seen people with everything and they lose everything. And so I've gotten to watch a lot of it. And I just feel like, you know, there's a level of imprisonment that happens when you, when you, you know, and I think, I mean, that's why when I say faith, I mean, you know, they talk about, about, you know, you saving up, you know, in your warehouse with, you know, where moth and Russ can eat, you know, like, you know, like there's some stuff to do with that. I think, which I think you can't, you can't, oh, it's not so simple to be that way. And I think it's harder for, you know, I think it's a hard, it's hard for people to, to operate like that. But having that, you know, having that belief, it's like people talk about visualization and visualizing and,

you know, having that, I mean, it's real. That's real stuff. Like if you think it's not real, you're, you're mistaken that you, you, you, you think you can, you can make things. Your belief in it definitely will be supportive of it happening. I can tell you that for sure in both ways, right? Like in both ways. You can make things be, you know, like Gabby says, if you have an ouch, God will give you a hurt, you know, if you walk around going, ouch, out, out, out, out. You'll be surprised if stuff isn't just hitting you all the time. And so, and I think vice versa, it's the same way, the other way, which is, you know, what is that if, you know, oh, you have little faith. I provide for the birds. You don't think I'll provide for you. Like, so

there's some of that. That's real stuff. Like they didn't just make that stuff up out of the sky. That's a real, that's real thing. So I think there's something to be said about that. It doesn't mean be stupid and, you know, and doesn't mean just, you know, just ignore your, your reality. But, but there is something about that that's real that that I think can put you in the right state of mind to not just be caged by this stuff because this is a caging area.

That's an area that we can be caged by. And I'm one of them. I'm caged by it. It's like when I was broke and then I was not broke and I'm like, oh, shit. I've just like created a prison a little bit where you get, where you stress out over running out. Yeah. Because we're,

because we're a bad. Yeah, we're scarcity creatures, right? So we have this whole scarcity thing that's in us. Right. So, and, you know, my mom had another good saying, which was the way God punishes you is he gives you what you asked for. So be careful what you ask for because you go, hey, I just want that,

you know, I want that big house. And then you're like, yeah. And then all of a sudden with that house comes all this other stuff like all the stuff that comes with it, which means that there's a bunch of stuff to break and there's a bunch of thing and there's a bunch of stuff to maintain.

And there's a, you know, it's so it, and you know, and that could be overwhelming. I think, I think that, you know,

that's why you see. see these guys that are these big these big hitters they're they're kind of they're not bogged down by all that little stuff right they're not they're looking in they're looking in in a at a bit at a bigger um a bigger thing but that being said you know uh you know like i said there's there's something about being prudent and and having the right people around you they could that that that you because it it takes it takes a what do they say it takes a village but it take you know you got to have you've got to have people to help because you can't do everything you can you know and it's like and so that you you need to be you're only as good as you know as the company you keep so i think

that that that's another important piece too like people well uh no i mean and that that's one of the reasons why i look up to we've had um i don't know if you know who rob dearick is but he's pretty amazing where uh he's another guy where i'm like laird and rob they've nailed it where business Nailed it. Personal life. You never have totally nailed that, but you're like, are due really well.

Fitness, nailed it. Like, self-awareness, nailed it. I know you, we'll wrap up here in a minute, but my last question was, I think last year on your guys' YouTube, Gabby asked you, what are your goals for,

it was at the end of 2012. She said, what are your goals for 2023? You go, this year I want to be more of a savage. I want to do more savage stuff. Like, I want to get, like, dirty and do something.

what is an example, we're more than halfway through the year, what's an example of something that you've done so far that's savage? And you also talked about visualization over the next six months and 18 months. Are there any particular experiences or goals that you're trying to do that would be, that would check that box of being more of a savage? Well, I mean, I'm all, I mean, listen, I have the nature. For me, here, I'll give you an example. For me, I've always wanted to kill an animal.

I wanted to go and kill a deer or sometimes I have cows in my ranch. I was like, I want to slaughter it with my hands and I want to eat it. I was like, I don't do that enough and I eat a ton of meat. I got to do that. Yeah. And like that's my, that's an example for me, which is not that very, that's not too savage, but what do you have? Well, I go for, I go for moose, you know, I go for a moose.

I go for probably in September, I'll go get a moose and so I can fill the cool, fill the freezers for the winter. but I grew up at a farm too so I've dealt with the you know and I've hunted when I was a kid we hunted boar and stuff like that I mean for me that the savage stuff comes more with the with the ocean you know like with

with the conditions I had one trip already to I had one trip to Peru this summer I mean we're just my my most of my savage stuff comes from the environment so I need to you know and and And normally, you know, I mean, listen, I just, we had that giant Malibu fire. I had, I had, I fought my house for, you know, I fought that fire for four or five hours with a

suit and pump. And then I had a flood in Hawaii after. And I was like, you know, at night with boats, you know, rescuing people off the top of their roofs to their houses and stuff. And so I have to be careful, what I asked for. Because before both of those. things. I said, I just need some action. You know, I just, so again, you know, back to what my mom said, be careful what you ask for. Be careful. Yeah, you got to clarify. So you have to clarify what, you know, what, what that, what that is, you know, I think it's easy to make a blanket statement. I just want to, you know, it's like I said when I was young, I wanted to be surrounded by women, you know, that go, yeah, I just want to be surrounded by women. Like, and then now you are, right?

And then I have three daughters. So, you know, again, I should have been a little more, how clear in my definition. Do you read a lot of books? I listen to a lot of books, but I read some, and I'll read and listen, but I listen to a lot. What are the best two that you've listened to in the last 12 or 18 months? Oh, well, I did, I did, I liked, there was a book called Life After Life that I really, I really enjoy. by what's his name Moody. And then,

let me see the, you know, there's a, there's a gnarly, a really pretty heavy one called Embrace the Fearless, embraced Fearlessly the Burning World by Barry Lopez. He's pretty radical. And then I went, I went full conspiracy.

Oh, actually, the psychology of totalitarianism was a pretty heavy book. That's the one you were referring to when you said he went full conspiracy? No, the full conspiracy was called the trap. That one's called the trap. Gotcha.

I kind of go all over the place. I have a really good one on water right now. You know, I'm, I like fiction. I like, you know, I like factual books. I'm not a big fiction guy. I like, I like. Can I give you,

let me give you, So I read a ton. I read about, I only read history, basically. Okay. So mostly historical stuff. Okay. But I'm going to give you three. Three in particular that I thought that you would like.

You know Dan Carlin? Of course, hardcore history. Yeah, because Dan, we know Dan. Dan's a buddy of ours. Really? He's cool. Yeah. I'm going to give you three in particular that you're going to dig.

Okay. The first is called The Wager. So the first two books I'm suggesting are ship books. It's about shipping ships in the 1800s. Yep. So the first one's called. the wager. And so these crazy guys would sail, you know, their 1800s ship from England all the way down through Argentina, Cape Horn. Cape Horn. Yep. And they got stranded and it took them two years

to get back. So you'll dig that one. The second one is called the heart of the sea. It's this, if you ever read Moby Dick, you know, about the whale that sinks the ship, there's actually a true story behind it. And so Nantucket originally was for Quakers who were whalmen. Yep. And so, So these whale men, they were fucking animals. You want to be talking about savage. Imagine sailing a ship with no electricity, no way to talk to anyone for two years, all the way over sometimes to the Pacific, to Africa. And they basically their ship was sunk in the middle of the Pacific.

And it's about how they got back to South America. And then the last one that I think you'll really dig, because I wanted to give you three books on being the savage. The last one was called Undaunted Courage. And it's about the story of Lewis and Clark. Okay. Lewis and Clarks, they were, they were savages in a good way. Yeah, I like their zone. I've been up in Washington where their, where their, their trail was in their,

they're hardcore. Those guys are. They're honorable, but they were bad to the fucking bone. Oh, yeah. What I liked is they weren't, they weren't killing anybody. They were just, they were making maps. So, yeah. Yeah, and they would meet these natives and they were like, hey, we're, we're, we're in peace.

We're going to be cool with you. but it took them two years, two years and four months to go from St. Louis to the Pacific and back. And it's a crazy story. So those are the three that I would recommend for you. And then I just finished the story about John Wilkes Booth, the guy who killed Abe Lincoln and the 12-day manhunt to find him. So I read a ton of that stuff. Yeah, there was a great. I just had an ocean one too that I can't remember what it is.

It's about the, oh, what's it called? I can't. Anyway, there was a great one, a sailing one about the race. from Hobart, like the race from New Zealand, the one that they do. And there's like a, is there a storm? Is there a storm in that one? Yeah.

Crazy storm. And the, and the boat and the guys get, yeah, it's, it's intense. The, um, that race. Yeah, I love reading that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Those, those stories, you know, I work on my computer throughout the day. The, the, the hardest points in my life, or if I go boxing or if I have a hard workout,

and I'm like, I need some pain in my life. in order to realize that, like, to turn down my, the volume of my daily life because my daily life is soft, so I need to read about something hard because I can't exactly go and experience lots of hard things. So this is why I like reading about these books, particularly the shipbook. So I thought you'd get a kick out of those. Absolutely. Well, yeah, because those are, those are, I mean, at sea is a real thing.

And especially those guys weren't exactly watermen, too. You fall off the boat, you die, those guys. Some of them couldn't even swim, which is crazy. That's what I'm saying. They weren't exactly watermen. They weren't exactly like, yeah, no. They couldn't even swim. And they would live on a ship for 20 years of their life.

They didn't even know how to swim. And also, if you fell off a ship in the ocean, those sailboats or the ships, they can't turn around exactly. You know what I mean? So they just fucking left you. You're like, you're done. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That's hardcore. Well, we live in a pretty soft time right now. This is a pretty. It is soft. It is soft. Which I'm thankful for in some kind. capacity. Oh, yeah.

You know, like, there's no doubt. But like, so, so that's why I think, particularly young men, I think. Yeah. Well, that's why they like you, I think is because they see you risking your life on, on a wave. And then they like, all right, well, I'm not willing to risk my life at a wave, but I'll go to a pool and lift out and move weights at the bottom of the pool because at least that's a little bit of hard.

You know what I mean? I think that's why a lot of young men admire you. Yeah. Well, the stress is good. It's, it's, we need it. We're designed for it. You know, that kind of constructive stress that you can control the. environment. And because it's the other one, if you induce it, you don't always have the,

you don't have as much participation in the outcome. If it's just being, if you're being subjected to it, you know, like a giant wave, it can decide not to let you up versus at least in the pool, you can always just let go your weights and swim to the surface. But we kind of have to induce it now. It's almost like we're forced it. You know, a lot of the stuff that we're doing is we're inducing things that we were getting naturally, like we were getting it from. It's like now we don't get enough sun, so we got to supplement and take vitamin D. It's like we're having to, we're having to make up for the fact that we're not getting a lot of this stuff that we need biologically. And that's, and that stress, that's why the heat and ice is great. That's why the

breath work is great. That's why the pool stuff is great, because it's, it's a one of the ways to stress the system. Because the system really needs for it to really work correctly. It needs a certain amount of stress and not stress of hey i owe taxes or hey i'm in the traffic but like some other stress it's a little more you know a little more just purely physical so yeah i remember um looking at buying a treadmill for my desk and then i like was like what the fuck am i doing this life i'm gonna put a fucking walking treadmill on a desk we don't walk enough and then i like i smacked myself i was like this is not the life man i'm this is literally a hamster wheel what am i do doing. I'm not buying a treadmill for a desk. If I got to buy a treadmill for a desk,

I'm broken. I've lost. Yeah, but we're almost forced into that. So we don't, I mean, it's like I was, like I said, I was in Europe and all they do is walk over there. You know, it's like they do a lot of walking. We don't walk as nearly as much because we just don't live in those. I mean, I guess in New York, you can, you know, where you have, where you can just, if you want, you can just, you can force yourself. You have to force yourself. But in Europe, they really do it a lot. They do a lot of walking. And you realize how well, we, we, we, we, our system really does well with walking. Like we're designed, we're walkers.

Like that's our, one of our big evolutions was that we came up off all fours and started walking. And so our metabolism and everything just functions a lot better when we walk. And so it's, you know, it's like you said here, now we're having to like buy things so we can stand in a room and walk. It's terrible. Yeah, I know.

I almost bought one. And then I was going, I like went through an existential crisis. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't have to do this. I'm not going to... Better to force yourself to go for a walk in the park or something, you know, make time. Right.

Well, I appreciate you doing this. I really admire you. I admire the family you've built, the life that you've built. I'm excited that we were able to talk. Sam, I really appreciate your time and thank you. I appreciate the admiration. And you know what? It seems like you're already there already.

So that's the... That's it. I'm basically, I read history because I like to see the mistakes as well as the wins that people have made. And that's one of the reasons why I like following you is I'm just like, what wins did he make? And, you know, that kind of helps point to me to the direction. What mistakes did he make? I'm going to try and avoid that one. Yeah. And hopefully it works out. But you've definitely kind of paved the path for me and a bunch of other people. So I appreciate that. Well, I think, I think that's one of the things that makes humans unique is that we can learn from the other people, you know, how to and how not to. It's like, so that's the, that's a, that's one of the things that really

helps us, you know, is that we can, if we can, I mean, the best is to learn from other people's mistakes, you know, but we have a tendency sometimes to need to make them ourselves. That's part of being human, I think, too. So, all right. I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. travel never looking back