My First Million - Lessons Learned from Interviewing Tim Ferriss, SaaS Business Ideas for OnlyFans, and More

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Episode 395: Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) and Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) talk about Shaan's interview with entrepreneur, investor, author, podcaster, and lifestyle guru, Tim Ferriss (@tferriss). They review his money and life advice, as well as his new NFT project. Plus, real estate insights and one business idea... plugins and SaaS tools for Only Fans. ----- Links: * Homestead Heritage * Tim Ferriss * Milk Road / Tim Ferriss interview * Cockpunch * Bhad Bhabie * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (05:05) - Isaac French (09:50) - What Shaan learned from Tim Ferriss (17:35) - Tim Ferriss money advice (37:05) - Real estate insights (51:05) - Only Fans ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

So he's written, I think, five or six bestselling business books, nonfiction, business books, business life hack type books. And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, okay, cool, like, you know, just going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread, right? That makes sense. But instead, he's like, I'm going to build like a world, like Game of Thrones. He's like, I'm going to build a whole thing like this. Like, it's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. Okay.

There's eight houses. They compete in the great games. And they do this like, you know, then there's a war and there's different classes and all the, all the things like if you create like a sort of a giant fantasy like, you know, Tolkien or George Or Martin style thing. And along with it, there's like basically an NFT, which you can buy that basically is not like, it's literally just like you're buying a piece of art. And you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like watching him build this world. What's up? In this episode, we're talking about hanging. out with Tim Ferriss, a guy that we've looked up to for a long time and some of the insights

that he shared with us. We talked about meeting a real estate billionaire and his model, how he built from scratch in seven years to about a billion dollars in real estate assets. We talked about the opportunity to build SaaS tools for only fans. You're going to want to hear that. And then last one at least, Sam's got a friend who's created his own, I don't know, religion. Sort of like the Amish people who love money. Kind of. It is almost like homage people who love money. I'm going to this thing. I'm going to give a big update on it next week. But in this episode, when we start off, I'll tell you a little bit about it. I think you're going to dig it. But yes, that's the episode. Listen up. All right, we live. Can I tell you about an interesting call I had with your old pal, Tim Ferriss? I'm so eager to hear this. I only asked you a few questions because I was waiting to hear about this. So I interviewed Tim Ferriss because he's got like a new NFT project that came out today or it's coming out today. And wonderfully named.

Yeah, called cockpunch. Right. So I was like, okay. What's that about? And I was like, yeah, you should come on the milk road and like tell your story and blah, blah, blah. And I've met Tim Ferriss one time in my life. You've met him a lot more than that, I think, because he was an investor in the hospital. and was kind of like it lived around the same area as you or whatever.

But I've met him one time. And I guess I'll just, I want to tell you three things. One, it's pretty interesting to meet people who you've really gotten to know through their content. What was it? The only fans girl who came on here called it the parasycial relationship where it's like, I feel like I know a lot about you. And to you, I'm a complete stranger, but, you know, I feel like we're close friends because

I know so much about you and you don't even know who the hell I am. that's how I feel with Tim Ferriss. That's how people feel with you and I, I bet. Yeah, it happens with you and I. And, you know, I was like, well, it's just like a weird dynamic. It's not weird. It's not like bad or good. It's like a strange dynamic.

It's a natural thing that happens with content like this. So I read the four-hour work week when I was in college. And I got, you know, before COVID-19, there was the four-hour fever. And the four-hour fever was what happened to you, right? When you read that book, for the next four hours, you question every part of your life and you start fever dreaming about quitting everything, you know, hiring a VA to do your job, going and living in Argentina,

and, you know, like, basically creating some online passive income business is going to give you $7K a month because that's your freedom number. And so, like, and I know this because everybody I gave the book to, I'm like, look, you might want to clear the schedule because you're going to have the four-hour fever as soon as you're done with this.

Like, just don't make plans because whatever they are, they're going to get busted by this. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. So, four-hour work is one of those books that I found to be really, really. Life-changing. Informative, life-changing, especially at the time that I read it.

I was 20, 21 years old, trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And it was a new, it was somebody saying, you know, here's how I live. And it was totally different than anybody else. Okay, so that's how I knew him. You knew him in a different way. Can you describe how you knew him?

And then I want to tell you some of the takeaways I had from this interview. So I initially met him when I was, I was coming home at 6 a.m. from the hospital after I got a kidney stone. My wife was just, driving me and I was sitting in the passenger seat and I was super messed up on morphine and all types of drugs and I pull up to my house and I go Sarah what the hell is Tim Ferriss dude in front of our house and I see him I go Tim so bro what are you doing here and he's like oh I lift on the block I was like oh sick hey you got any cures for kidney stones and I just sounded like a total asshole

and then two days later I see him again I go Tim what's going on man I just want to apologize I I was coming from the hospital. I was all hopped up in drugs, but I'm a huge fan. That's cool that you live around here. And then through that, we just started walking our dogs, like in the park every once in a mob together. And I would just see him in the park. Then a few weeks later, I get an email from Tim saying, hey, I want to learn about

emailing. I like the hustle. Teach me about it. Can you go out, when you meet me at this restaurant in my neighborhood? I go and meet him at that restaurant. He goes, oh, what the hell? You're the dog guy? I go, what's up, man?

He goes, why didn't you? And so, basically, he cold emailed me and I never told him who I was. and it was a total coincidence, and that's how I got to know him. So I wanted to say two things. One, I'm going to tell people my philosophy about meeting people that you kind of admire or you think highly of in some way. And the main trick that I have is I admire parts of people, not the whole. Totally.

And this is a key, key thing that I think a lot of people get wrong. They look at it as a binary yes or no thing. Oh, this person, do you love them? Or do you hate them, right? Are they the best? Are they the worst? Right? Are they your hero?

Are they not your hero? And I never think like that because when you meet people, you see this like full 360 picture of them and you're like, oh, like, no, for example, I'm at Tim Ferriss and he was actually quite quiet in person the first time I met him. He's super quiet and shy. And he's a little bit introverted or shy. And then when he did say things, I was like, oh, wow, that's like a little bit of the Tim Ferriss that I, you know, I've heard or followed coming out.

but also I was like, you know, even though I love 10 things about this guy, there's a couple things about him that I wouldn't want to emulate, right? There's six things I'd want to copy, let's say, about the way that Tim Ferriss lives his life. But I was like, oh, you know, something that's really important to me is like, let's say kids are having a family. And I don't know if it's important to him or not. I don't know him that well, but he doesn't have that.

So I don't want to be him, right? I don't want to be the whole, but there's parts of him that I think are awesome that I would love to steal for my game. And I think about this with everybody. I imagine you, like, standing over him. and he's just sitting down and you're poking him with a stick and you're like, come on, tell me life hacks.

Like, come on. Yeah, basically, what you did with your kidney stone? He's like, you ever seen, you have one of these on your feet? What do you do? Yeah, what's his rash me? He's like, I don't know, man. Maybe you should ask a doctor.

And so, same thing with Tony Robbins. I love Tony Robbins. But do I love the whole Tony Robbins? No, I love parts of Tony Robbins. And some people are like, dude, what about that thing he did? And that thing he said, I'm like, I don't, I mean, I don't know about that.

And if he did those, that that would be bad. But I love his public speaking. I think he's amazing at that. That's what I try to steal from. Or I love his mindset around XYZ. And that's what I've adopted from. That's been really helpful. And there's other stuff that's either not applicable or not admirable.

Well, it's fine. I just don't take that, right? I'm just walking through the farmer's market picking up little bits and pieces of people and being like, oh, you know, like Cona McGregor now is like basically looks like he's like a royd head, you know, like. Coke. I don't know. He's got allegations.

of sexual assault that he's just coked out or who knows the guy's nuts but like kind of mcgregor from the years 2015 to 2018 yeah you know what they call the young hungry connor that's the connor that was the things i drew a lot from and i don't let the other stuff really tarnished that because i'm just only looking for the good and the bad i just say oh somebody else can pick that that bad apple up i'm not taking that out all right so what about tim so that's just my general philosophy Okay. So let me tell you some of the nuggets that I took away from this interview because it was supposed to be, I mean, frankly speaking, it was supposed to be like, Tiff Farris comes on the milk road. That's cool. That's just sort of like a bucket list item thing for me. But, you know, for him, obviously it was a good way to get the word out about his NFT project. So I thought, I went in with like, you know, pretty low expectations. Generally when somebody goes on to like announce the launch of something, they're kind of just shilling that thing. He didn't do that. So that was kind of cool. And he said a bunch of things that were I would say life advice or money advice that I thought were interesting. Do you want the money or the life one first? Money.

All right. Money one. So I was like, Tim, what are you doing? You know, crypto prices are crashing? What are you doing? Are you making any adjustments? Do you look at the prices? He's a crypto guy, by the way.

Yeah, he said he bought crypto, bought Bitcoin for the first time, but like late 2012 and been accumulating kind of sense. He's like, it's a significant thing for me. Not like, you know, not everything, but it's significant. He said last year, Q3, 2021, he sold. enough to cover like feel like he kind of covered his cost basis and banked a little bit of a win and then the rest he's just like you know holding to to see how it all plays out and he was like he said a couple of interesting things he goes I've made most of my money mistakes selling early

selling too early and he gave a bunch of examples he goes you know I owned I was the first advisor in Shopify super early on and I own pre-IPO shares of Twitter and Facebook and as soon as they went public, you know, you know, so they grow, they go public. And, you know, in that first year, they all hit like turbulent times and they, you know, stock went way down. He's like, I just, as soon as a lockup was over, I just sold because stock's going down. I was kind of a novice in public markets. Frankly, still a bit of a novice in public markets. I didn't know what to do. So I just sold. All of it? He's like, yeah, all of it. He didn't specify that, but he made it sound like all of it. Wow. And he's like, those are massive financial mistakes. You know, like, so.

selling Facebook, shop five, and Twitter, like, right when they went public, you know, six months after is when the lockup ends is, you know, he's like, these are, you know, hideous financial mistakes that I paid. He's like, and it wasn't because I, he's like, he's like, so I learned what, when do you sell? So he goes, I now go into any position. I only buy if I know what conditions I would sell under. He's like, so most people have no exit plan. They don't know when they would sell, how long they plan to hold, or what would cause them to sell. He's like, I now have a plan when I go in. I know what would trigger me to sell.

So if I'm going to deviate from that plan, I better have a really strong reason. Because the second thing is I don't sell now because the price went down. I sell if something I believed before, I now have new information that tells me that's not true anymore or I'm surprised about. He's like, so for crypto, for example, he's like, I haven't sold, but I haven't sold not because I'm like, you know, more confident than ever. He goes, frankly, I just haven't done the homework to go figure out,

were any of my initial assumptions wrong? I haven't done that homework yet. And he's like, that's what I'll do. I'll go talk to my smart friends, the ones who helped me get into this. And I'll say, you know, is there anything that you used to believe that you no longer believe about crypto or anything that any red flags that have come up for you that didn't go in line with your initial hypotheses? I want to hear those before I make a decision on what I want to do.

I thought that was extremely reasonable. And I thought that the sort of selling early mistake is something that, you know, I've shared on the pod too. You know, like I sold Tesla early when there was like, you know, I basically lost five. million, I lost out on $5 million had I held. But, you know, there was a bunch of bad news and I didn't know what to do. And so then I just sold, right? And by the way, for the Shopify example, it looks like six months after it was around $2.50 a share.

At its peak, at its peak, peak, it was $150. So that's something like, you know, a million dollars of shares that he had, which he definitely could have had, would have been like $50 million, which is like very substantial. And so, you know, he was pointing out, you know, my mistake. in investing haven't been buying the wrong thing. The biggest mistakes have been selling the right thing too early. And, you know, I think that might be, you know, he's like, you know, I don't know if this applies to everybody. But he's like, for me, that has been, you know, some of my largest kind of missteps. Okay. So then the second thing, he was talking about this project that he's doing,

this NFT project. And I was like, so this is kind of crazy. I don't know if you know what he's, do you know what he's doing? So I know that he's always been interested in nonfiction writing or sorry, fiction writing. He's always wanted to write stories. And for some reason, he hasn't until now. And I think this is like his first fictional story or book or series of podcast and it comes with an NFT, right?

Yeah, exactly. So he's written five or six bestselling business books, nonfiction, business books and business life hack type books. And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, okay, cool, like, you know, just going back to the, you know, what butter is your brand, right? That makes

sense. But instead, he's, he's, He's like, I'm going to build like a world like Game of Thrones. He's like, I'm going to build a whole thing like this. Like I'm going to, it's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. Okay. There's eight houses. They compete in the great games.

And they do this like, you know, then, you know, there's a war and there's different classes and this, well, all the, all the things. Like, if you create like a sort of a giant fantasy like, you know, Tolkien or or George or Martin style thing. And along with it, there's like basically an NFT where, you can buy that basically is not like is it's literally just like you're buying a piece of art and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like watching him build this world out it's a book like one book it's not a book it's like i think it's just like long he's like i've written 10,000 words but uh i don't think he's going to release it like a book i think he's going to release it in

some other way like essays or chapters or podcast and like other he's playing with different formats i don't think he knows exactly how he wants it to come out yet so anyways pretty interesting And I was like, dude, so why are you doing this? He's like, well, he said a couple nuggets. He goes, you know, I'm having the most fun when I'm creating something. And that's what gets me into flow state. And so he's like, so I knew I wanted to create something. And I wanted to, if I just did another nonfiction book, I don't feel like I would have

that magical feeling of being challenged and satisfied at the same time. Yeah. And so he goes, he goes, I talked to the guy from who did, Stephen Press, who I think wrote the War of Art. Yeah. And he goes, he goes, you know, he has this concept of a muse, which is like the project you're working on or like, you know, the thing that you're playing with. And he goes, you're doing your muse a disservice if you don't go big.

And he goes, so I decided, like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to go big. And he goes, big is not, I have to write like an 8,000 word book or whatever, like a 8,000 page book. Like that's big doesn't mean like literal volume. big means I have to go to a point where I'm uncomfortable with this and my friends are calling me and they're saying Tim are you okay sure this is what you want to do and he's like that's how I know that I've like pushed it into a realm that's like something interesting is going to happen and that's how I feel with this

what's with this podcast what do you mean no with him coming up with a nonfiction thing called or a fiction thing called cockpunch I'm like yeah I'm like you know you have nothing to lose here because like you know you're set you're fine and if this is creative that's cool, but like, it's kind of weird. What are you doing, man? Like, are you okay? Yeah, exactly. And he goes, that's when I'm going to basically do the things that are off the beaten path,

something that I haven't done before, something that is new and interesting and novel. And so that's how he was talking about this thing. I was like, okay, I love that advice. The second thing he said, I love it was along those lines. He goes, he goes, I go, so I go, what if we're just sitting here like, you know, a year from now, just got a beer. We're like, dude, what happened with Cockmunch, man? that story was, that was going to be, that project was crazy. Like, where did it all go wrong?

Like, if it all goes wrong, what do you think your answer will be if we're, we're looking back at it a year from now? And it's just like, yeah, that went, that went totally wrong. What is the core risk? It goes, I've thought about this a lot. It's a good question. He goes, if I end up managing the project instead of creating it, I think that we'll have all gone wrong. And he goes, because, A, he goes, he goes, he goes, anything great comes from, you know, staying. at it. He goes, so I have to do the things that give me energy because without the energy, there is no endurance. And that, like, really resonated with me. He was like, you know, with no energy, there is no endurance. He goes, so I got to spend my time on the things that give me energy. For me, that's drawing and that's creative writing. So I have to do those parts. That's also the parts that

those are my superpowers. That's what I'm good at. And I'm good at that than other people. Like, like, he did the animation. Yeah, his background was like illustrations and comics. Like, that's how he paid for college and stuff like that. Yeah, he's like a sketch artist. And I think that's what he originally wanted to do was be a cartoonist in some way. What a fascinating person. And so he was like, you know, those are my superpowers. I got to spend the time on that. If I just end up spending time managing this thing and it feels like a lot of administrative work, I know that for me, that gives me no energy, therefore no endurance, therefore I won't stay, stay with it, therefore the great things won't happen. I thought the

self-awareness was really key. And this is something that I know as I think about my next projects, these are the types of like, you need to have like these strong-ass pillars or tenets of like, this is what I am doing and this is what I'm not doing. And if I do this, I think it'll work. And if I don't do this, I know that I will have trouble. And I think that self-awareness is pretty baller. Dude, that's awesome. He's always been a pretty wise person.

Even, like, you know, I think he wrote four-hour work week when he was maybe a little bit younger than you and I. Like, he might have been only 30 when he wrote it. And he always was pretty wise, man. He's, he's always had like interesting insight. And that's a really good insight about the energy and the endurance thing. He had another one that goes. He goes, I go so, I was on the topic of failure.

He goes, he goes, I should first say that I kind of rigged the deck in my favor. And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, you know, I go into a project thinking, how do I win even if this fails? How do I succeed even if this fails? And so he goes, I think about it in terms of, sure, there's the like, you know, do a lot of people read this thing and, you know, does this become popular? Does it become financially successful? Sure, those are things. But like, he's like, I want to win even if those hard.

things don't happen. So he goes, I will only pick projects if I know that the act of doing it, the creative process of doing it, is going to be awesome. If the people I'm going to meet along the way doing this are going to be awesome. And if the skills that I'm going to develop doing this are going to make me more awesome. And so he goes, if I do those three things, if I know that the skills, the knowledge and the network that I acquire along the way is going to make it worth it for me, then I don't have to stress about the popularity of the financial income because I'm going to win in either case. I'm going to win if just those things happen or I'm going to win even bigger if the other happens. So he goes, I pick projects where I can stack the deck in my favor and that's what I've done here.

And is this still the life or the money advice or the life one? Now we're in the life advice. Yeah. Dude, he's good, man. He's a really interesting guy. What's he doing now? So he just like, is he treating that as like, that's been his like 40 hour work week? Like that's been his job job for Yeah. He's just going to ham on this for like, you know, close to a year now. And he's like a dude. I've just put so many, so many hours into this. He's like, yeah. And which is funny because people are criticizing like, oh, dude, you're doing an NFT.

You're just like another celebrity doing an NFT. It's just a cash grab. And I like, I told him this on the call. I was like, dude, that's crazy to me. First of all, he's donating 100% of the proceeds to like his charity that does like the research on like psychedelics and stuff like that to treat PTSD. So all the primary sales are going there, right? So that's like, you know, most, you know, that's a huge chunk of the financial reason

you would do it. the second thing is if you just count like the number of hours it takes to do this world building type of thing like he's got to be working for minimum wage basically just in terms of the number of hours it takes to create something like this and third if he was going to do a cash grab

NFT he would have done it last year he wouldn't be launching it now and he wouldn't be giving away the money to charity and he would be like doing it in a way that's like not doesn't require him to like build out this whole fictional world like he would just be like hey here's a picture hey meet this you know this gives you

five minutes to talk to Tim Ferriss, right? That's what he would do is just like a cash grab if he wanted to do it. And so I thought that was like, you know, one of the funny criticism. Tim has like a really interesting celebrity. Ryan Holiday has this too. And I know I've known a few guys that have had this where there's people I look up to. And then there's people who the people I look up to look up to. So like Ryan and Tim, they both get like all these football coaches, all these like politicians,

these rich billionaire types, all these interesting like powerful, traditionally powerful. powerful people will reach out to them and like, hey, Sensei, show me the way. What can I do about this? What should I do next? And I have always found that type of celebrity to be incredibly fascinating. And so like, I mean, Tim will like, not in a bad way, but he'll like name drop all these stories like on the pot. I was with Ed Norton recently. And he was telling me like this, this and this. And I was trying to help him like figure out what to do. You know, like he like tells these stories or like when I was with Jamie Fox, he was asking me about this. And I've always found that

celebrity be so fascinating. I've always wondered what his life is like. I also, I asked him another question. I go, you know, you're one of the most prolific interviewers. You've done, I don't know, 600 episodes of interviews on your podcast. It's one of the top, I don't know, five or ten podcasts in the world. And as I go, you know, if you had a chance to sit down with Sam Bankman-Fried and interview him, you got a couple hours with him, how would you approach it? And I thought his answer was pretty interesting. So he goes, it's a tricky one because I don't know going in how much of what he's going to tell me is the truth or a lie. And so he goes, but I'll tell you how I would approach it, given that that's the problem. He goes, first I would, my goal initially is just to get him off

of his party lines, get him off of his PR script. And so he's like, I would go and I would try to talk to as many of his old friends and coworkers as I can and ask them, you know, if you, you must be surprised at what's happened here. If you could ask Sam one question, just genuinely heart to heart, what would you want to know the answer to that I can maybe ask on your behalf? And then he's like, I'd get those. He's like, then in the interview, I would use their name to kind of soften them up a little bit. I talked to James, who, you know, was your college roommate and knew you before any of this stuff, right, when you were just a guy, blah, blah, blah. He said he would want to know this. Like, what would you say to James? Because it's like saying to James versus saying to Tim, I think is like

interesting. So I thought that was an interesting tactic. He goes, that gives me good research. search, but also maybe can get him to just, like, deviate from the same repetitive loop of answers he's going to give to everybody else. He goes, the second thing is that he goes, I'd be pretty direct. I go, what percent of what you say to, you know, before we do this, what percent should I assume is true of the things that you're going to tell me? Is it 100? Or is it less than 100?

And like, you know, if it's less than 100, I understand that, but why? And you guys, another version of that would be, you're doing a lot of media. what do your lawyers think of what you're doing he's like because it might make him laugh and get him to kind of talk about his motivations for why he's even doing an interview like this because it seems kind of counterintuitive to be doing all the stuff no lawyer would tell you to go go and do this up he goes the last thing he goes he goes you know I would um he goes he goes I just want to know the guy's fundamental beliefs because it seems like he's not stupid he's got good hardware upstairs and that's why I always

want to know what its beliefs are. You know, am I just supposed to assume that he's just a bad person? He was a criminally minded person and for a long time he planned to do this criminal behavior or was he, did he have the right intentions and then somewhere along the way made a bad ethical decision under some stress or pressure and that led him down a path of making the wrong decisions, you know, like, and he's like, that's what I'd be trying to figure out. And, you know, I would try to understand, you know, his, you know, his thinking around that and tell him, that's what I want to know.

I want to understand that. I thought that was pretty cool. So I'll wrap up with one last story about Tim. So in this, what you're saying kind of like he'll, he'll say these things sometimes in interviews as if he's coming off the cuff or that he's like just thinking out loud. I have never met someone like him who prepares for everything. He prepares for every single thing. And this is quite different than you and I.

You and I are totally cool improvising. you would think someone like him who's interviewed all these people or has talked publicly for so many hours that they can improvise. Maybe he can, but from my experience, he is not someone who improvises. And he, everything he says, the words are chosen very, very specifically. And so he'll say this line, like, oh, I don't play a doctor on TV and I don't pretend to do that. Like, he'll say that line. And he's just like, he must have heard that somewhere. He's like, okay, that's actually a good line to get, that's a good brand message. Disarm. Yeah, I'm going to keep saying that. And so another thing that he'll do is like, one time I interviewed him for The Hustle, and I interviewed him on the phone,

and then I transcribed it. And there was a couple instances where I made an air, so he was right to yell at me. And he didn't yell at me, but he was just like, no, this is, that's not what I said. And we're talking about, like, I would write the word hadn't instead of had not. He said had not, and I wrote hadn't. So I was, in fact, wrong. And he, like, very specifically called that out. And he did that so, or he's like, no, there shouldn't be a comma here. There should be a period. And then a new sentence or like these like incredibly incredibly if he did that then he's going to be pretty pissed at this interview because I definitely dude you know move stuff around to help him no he does not like that and I don't blame him he is so specific about his brand and in fact if you go and see

like for example there's this conference called 212 that I went to and Tim went and he gave a testimonial for it and if you read the testimonial it's very specific where in his head he's like well I can't endorse anything. But I can't say is, you know, Adam hosted a great conference. They're wonderful. He's a wonderful person. Or like, like, you know, like some people will ask us, you and I, like, I've asked you to do a testimony for something. And you're like, just write whatever. No, not him. Everything about his brand, like what you see out in public and what he writes, he is very specific and it's all incredibly well thought out. So like, we almost had him speak at a conference or something like that. And we just like went through, we just started chatting about it. And he was like,

wanting to know exactly who all was there. And I'm like, what do you mean, dude? Why does it matter to you? Just like, fucking wing it. Just talk. And like, that's not his style at all. Like, it was all incredibly precise, well thought out. It's all, and everything had a purpose. And I've always found that to be very admirable about him because I remember being pissed off when he, he didn't yell at me, but like he kind of like had a tone where he's like, no, that's not what I said. This is what I said. And I remember being upset about that. And then I was like, no, man, he's right. He's, he has a brain and he's sticking to it. And I always thought that was really. interesting. Yeah. Well, all right, Tim, I'm sorry. I did definitely chop and chop up for the interview to

try to make it shorter and better. When to go live? When to go live? It's already live. Too late. Tell me if he replies to you. That's going to be the follow-up. I bet you he will. He will see. He's very specific about it. And I appreciate that. You're right. I had told him I was like, he's like, yeah, I'll do it. Just send me the questions in advance. So I want to make sure I can prepare and do do the best job I can. And I was like, well, I don't know the questions I'm going to ask you. So I guess I'll do the work now. And so I did it. And then he's like, okay, cool, for this question.

I think we should do this and this on this. But I was like, wow, this is like way more in depth than anybody. And then even during the thing, he's like, he's like, did an audio video test earlier, blah, blah, blah. It should be good because he's like, you know, whatever in some foreign country right now. And he's like, you know, I. And then on some of the answers, he's like, okay, stop. Can I redo that? I think I was not being clear there.

And then he would like do it again. And I was like, wow, we're so different. but I get why being the way that you are leads you to have the type of brand and success that you have. I am so different than that. I am like, you know, complete. I'm basically like the equivalent of a food fight and he's like a Michelin Star restaurant. Exactly. It's so fascinating.

I'm just throwing mashed potatoes around and getting it everywhere. And he's like, you know, got that perfect plate. Dude, I remember we were with our dogs, like walk at it and I go, oh, that's a cool dog leash. and like or like cool dog collar or something and he and I was like expecting him like oh yeah god on Amazon's pretty great he was like oh this thing you see this comes from like this rare like African horse hair and like he had like some in-depth story about it and that was my and then I noticed every time something like we had these conversations everything about his life it felt very purposeful high intent intentional yeah I thought that was fascinating yeah that's cool

It really highlights like, it's like you see a 12 out of 10 at being very intentional. And then you're like, oh, wow, I thought I might have been an eight or a nine. Actually, I'm a four. Totally. He's very specific. Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot? See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess.

But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot, grow better. All right. You want to do another one of yours? Yeah, let's do some other topics. Okay, so where do you want to shift to?

Maybe some ideas. What's a Spotify interesting? Or real estate insights? I'm interested in that. You said maybe, but let me give you the real estate thing real quick. So I talked to somebody, I can't say their name, but I like where this is going. Who has had, who has built, I would say, in the last seven years, I think it is. Yeah, seven years.

They've built a real estate portfolio owning about a billion. of real estate assets where with 40% debt. So 60% is equity. So about 600 million of equity in these properties. And they started seven years ago from zero and has zero ability to like zero network, zero ability to borrow only like skills. They knew they thought they knew what they were doing and they were able to build this up.

Okay. So I was talking to him and I was like, I was like you and he does retail in a specific, he does retail real estate. So basically, or I guess in their world, they would call it commercial estate, but what I mean is like retail stores. So he'll buy a shopping center. And the shopping center will have a, you know, a hobby lobby and, you know, a Starbucks and whatever. And there's like, you know, six spots. And he'll basically own that center.

And then he'll get it at least buy it. He'll build on it. He'll lease it up. And then he'll either hold it or sell it after that. And he's basically compounded his money. I think about, I was doing the calculations afterwards. He's compounded his money about 60% a year for like seven years or something like that. Even maybe a little bit more.

And so I think 60% was the minimum that I calculated it was possible for where he was at. I think is a little bit north of that. And I was like, dude, I was like, first of all, this is crazy. Congratulations. Second of all, my worldview is that like, dude, shopping centers? Like, is this still a thing? Like, aren't you, is this not dying? Like, in my world, in the tech world, we're just like, everything's going online.

Everything's e-commerce. You know, you're going, you're swimming against the current. And I go, am I just wrong about that or what's going on? How do I? I mean, the hobby, lobby folks are always going to need a lobby to hobby, bro. Like, they're going in real life. So that's what he said. He goes, you're right?

He goes, but there are some specific trends. some specific categories that are going completely anti-trained and expanding like Home Depot probably because I go how does it work? He goes, I go, what's your edge? Like what are you doing differently than anybody else? Because you're getting a dramatically better result

than anybody else I know in real estate. He goes, well, I'll get a call from, you know, the owner of, you know, whatever, dollar general or something like that. And they'll say, hey, literally, well, not the owner. Like an executive, like someone, an executive there, you mean? Could be the CEO, could be the head of real estate, whoever.

somebody at the top of these companies and they'll say look we're trying to get into lexington kentucky um you know we want to be in that geo and we or we want more stores in that geo uh can you can you make this happen and i'm like and he's like so then i go make it happen i go no no no slow down slow down i go so what why do they call you he's like well they've done business with me i'm like okay great but like why aren't they just calling a broker like or somebody in lexington and he's like he's like he's He just started laughing. He's like, he's like,

you know, or even specific, more specifically, I'm like, so then you have to find the right location. He goes, no, sometimes they'll just tell me,

we want to be in this location. I was like, then why don't they just contact the guy from there and like, just do the deal? And he's like, I'm like, these companies have real estate teams.

He's like, oh, he's like, yeah, they do. He's like, but he's like three things. He goes, number one, most of the owners of these places are like a pain in the ass

for them to deal with. He goes, they know I'm easy to do business with. Why? Most owners don't want to invest in their properties. They won't do any tenant improvements. I will invest money to build out the stores the way they want. And because I've been willing to do that, they prefer to work with me over any other developer

or like the average developer because I have shown that I can build fast and I will invest my own dollars into building it. Okay. Second thing. And I go, but doesn't that guy just think like, man, if I just did this, he goes, yeah, but it's speculation. He goes, I know because I have these relationships, I know they'll come through, that owner would have to like on spec invest in in maybe improving some part of their property in order

to make it more inhabitable. I'll just do it. And by the way, so he gets the hobby lobby like interest, then he can go get a loan and tell the bank, hey, I got interest in this. Therefore, not even that. He'll get the interest. Then he'll go tie up the property. He'll commit to buy it. But he doesn't have to have the money right away. He has 90 days or whatever. He's got to like close the thing, 30 days, 60 days, whatever it is. And in that time, he then goes to get Hobby Lobby to sign the lease. then he goes to the financiers. He says, here's a property with assigned 10-year lease

from a highly reputable client. Can I now get financing? It sounds like the best business ever. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, oh, Hobby Lob is not going out of business anytime soon. You have a 10-year tenant? Yeah, this is all easy.

So then he was like, he's like, I was like, okay, so, okay, I kind of buy that the mom and pop owner of these, like, you know, they own like one or two shopping centers, three shopping centers. They're not like, they're more scared than they are, more fearful than they. they are greedy, they're not investing in it. Okay, I buy that. Some people might fall into that. What

else? What are your other edges? He goes, I don't die by paralysis by analysis. He goes, these guys will, something on page seven of the lease will get them all tied up. He goes, they'll just get like, some covenant they're really worried about. He goes, I have like basically like a standardized deal with these guys. My leases are like clean and simple. And like, you know, I'm willing to bear some risk. These are not like the most ironclad bulletproof. Every, every inch of every part of my body is covered and can't be exposed. He's like, you know, I just don't die by paralysis by analysis. Like these guys will just die in the dealmaking process of the lease because they get worried

about stuff that really doesn't matter. I've been doing this for long enough that I understand, look, if things go wrong, I have a plan B, a plan C, plan D. I don't have to make plan A this completely fully insured thing. Okay, that's interesting. Tell me more. And he goes, he goes, the other thing is that they will have like, you give me some other deal making points, but I'll leave those out.

Some of those are, you know, maybe a little like, I don't know, personal or secretive, I guess. But I go, okay, what about these tenants? I go, who are these people? Who's trying to expand? I thought the whole retail landscape is like shrinking and collapsing. And Amazon's killing everybody. He goes, yes, but there are certain categories. So he goes, anything DIY.

So Hobby Lobby is an example of this. DIY, people like to go in. They like to see the stuff. They like to have the stuff. They need a bunch of inventory in a big space. So they're willing to rent these big stores. He goes, another one. anything that caters to the black and Latino community.

He goes, for some reason, those groups are not buying online as much as, you know, white or or Indians or other, other races. He goes, because they're not buying online, their stores are still thriving. And he goes, and I ask them, you know, like, why do you think it'll be like Burlington Co factory? Got it. Or things like that. He's like, for Billington Co Factory, he's like, a lot of these places, they're not just like, oh, I just need a shirt.

Let me go buy the shirt. Okay, if you wanted to do that, Amazon might be more convenient or ordering online might be more community. Like, I need a coat today. For a lot of these communities, it's a hangout. It's like, this is the one place we go when we leave the house. We go for an outing and we go to this place. And he's like, so that is like a big piece of like, it's like part of their lifestyle is

to go to stores and hang out and you have to do the whole, do the whole line. He's like, so those stores are all thriving. He goes, the third one is anything that's like super low end. So dollar store style things because they're actually cheaper than online and they don't have to have the shipping problems. and so people, if you want the lowest price, that's still the place to go. Fourth is he goes,

like your wife and my wife, home goods and home improvement. So go to home goods. It's like, he goes, their treasure hunt, treasure hunt experiences. So what's that like a T.J. Max or home goods?

T.J. Max, Ross, Marshall's, home goods, things like that. He goes, they go because there's a joy in finding an amazing deal. Yeah.

And so they don't want the most efficient experience where they just go online and they just buy the thing and they're done. There's this actually, like the joy of the hunt. So they want to go to this big messy store and they want to find gems and they want to do that.

And again, that's their outing. That's their fun. That's their hobby. And so the retail store still really matters. And so he gave me this list of categories that were like still expanding. And I thought that was pretty interesting.

It's like some of the nuance that you don't really pay attention to unless you're like in that field. And so I just appreciated kind of talking to somebody who knows their stuff in that area. How many people work at this person's company? Like less than a dozen? No. it's probably like some between 20 and 30, I would say overall.

Man, that seems like, it seems too boring for me. Like I, I think I would, for some reason, I pick things that probably make less money, but a more dopamine hit. It is generally boring, but they do high deal volume. He said he had done like 80 or 100 transactions this last year, which is just, and that's doing a real estate deal every three days, basically, which is just an insane amount of volume. He's like, there's a reason. That's not normal, but like the whole real estate world has shifted.

So I needed to shift my portfolio accordingly. Like what are my generational holds? What are my quick, quick opportunistic buys? And what are my B properties that I need to offload because interest rates are changing and the real estate market's about to crash? So I need to do this. He goes, I remember in 08. I was the guy who was like, I'm going to do real estate.

Because real estate had been good for like, you know, eight straight years. He's like, so I was running into the burning tunnel. and people are just handing me properties. I'm like, wow, this is incredible. He goes, now I realize you want to be the guy on the way out. Hey, here you go, bud. Have fun. Have fun with this property.

Yeah, it's all the papers, all the numbers look good because the last five years have been fantastic. Last seven years have been fantastic. But the next seven years might not be the same. And he's like, you know, I know now he's like, now I've learned which which way to go in the tunnel when it's burning. What skills or attributes does this person have? You think that sets them apart? Extremely aggressive. they are they're aggressive when you talk when you talk to them you almost feel like at any given moment like

it's like are we are we laughing or are we fighting what's happening here like they're a very friendly person it's not that it's nothing wrong with that but they are aggressively minded where it's like we play to win uh like the way they raise their kids is to win it's like um like their kids like you know if they do something bad they don't go to time out they do 20 burpees and it's like you know That's like standard. It's like, okay, before dinner, we're going to go run wind sprints. And then like, yeah, that's just how we do things before dinner. And like girls, boys, two-year-old, 10-year-old doesn't matter.

Like, whoever you are, this is how we are. Well, now your back's going to hurt. You just got lawn care duty. Yeah, I mean. Exactly. Like, there's a, there's just a play to win mentality. That's the first thing. Second thing is giant, giant chip on shoulder.

Massive insecurity. Daddy didn't love me. Daddy was mean to me. People said I wasn't shit. People said I would never be something. Hold on to that. Use that as fuel. And that same thing that kind of like, and you know, they'll say like, yeah, that does stuff just bother me anymore.

It's like, yeah, but you brought it up to me eight times in the last three years. So like I think there's like you haven't let it go. That's for sure. You know, I think you've used it to a very, very productive end for sure. But that chip on your shoulder is like, you know, what are they? said chip on shoulder equals chip in pockets chips in pockets that's what that's happening so um that's the second trait third is amazing at deal making negotiation dealmaking gift of gab um spends very little time in front of computer spends a lot of time in front of people or on the phone tons of

time on the phone and like i feel like for our generation like how much time do you dude i fucking hate talking on the phone i just click on talking to you know potential business things on the phone I spend essentially zero. And in fact, even if there's a business opportunity, they're like, hey, I'd love to do a call. Like, I just tell him straight about, hey, I hate doing calls. But if you write it down, like, I'm happy to respond. Yeah. I were you to listen to like a voice memo.

Yeah, like I'm not doing any of that. That's hilarious. Yeah, so this person spends a lot of time on the phone and they do that to gather tons of info. And they'll just, if I, they're like driving a bunch, they'll just dial. Okay, I'm driving four hours to go see this property in that time. I'm going to make 14 phone calls or whatever. And I'm, hey, brother, what's going on? What's you seeing?

Oh, what happened to that property you had out there? Oh, you have trouble? Well, send me the numbers. Let me take a look. Maybe I can help you out, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, and they're just constantly surfacing opportunities or information. Oh, that guy's doing, having some trouble? Interesting.

Like, oh, this person, you know, they're underwater there. I know, I know, Hobby Lobby wants to be there. So I'm going to, you know, okay, good. Let me, let me make that happen. And so they just find these deals like that. That's one of the traits. Dude, I love it. very different

honestly pretty standard for the real estate world none of the things I said so far are like shocking to anybody that's in real estate but for us in the tech world it's a very different play style it's totally different set of strengths

activities than what we do so for us it's like ooh that's cool that's new that's crazy to me dude by the way my father is like that he owns a business where when he spends his winters in Florida he brings a phone that plugs into the wall and he brings a fax machine

and it's just constantly calling like, hey, what you got? What's you hearing? What's good? And like his company, you know, sells millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff. And it's just with a fucking phone, a fax machine, and mailing checks. And just constantly calling like, hey, what you got? What you're hearing? Like, that's just how the business is.

It's crazy, man. And they kill it. Par here. Talk to me. That's what they do. They go, what's good, brother? What's going on? Or call people, nephew.

What's up, nephew? What's good? You got to work at a barbershop. I'm going to just call non-Nephews. Call people nephew. You got to be black and in a barbershop. I can't believe that your dad gets away with that. That's amazing.

It's kind of like that. I'm like, what's up nephew? He just calls people a nephew. What's some young blood? He just calls people nephew. All right. You want to do one more? Let me tell you about a space that I've been poking around.

And it's not something I'm going to do, but there's definitely opportunity. You know, I poked the beeh. and I heard some buzzing. I don't want to go near it, but like somebody who wants honey, go there. That's a very good analogy. I don't piece together that analogy.

I don't know what the next word was going to be. You just had words coming out of your mouth, not sure how the sentence is going to end it. It totally found its place. Wonderful. That was really satisfying. So, so only fans.

Okay, so we've talked about only fans a bunch, but let me tell you the angle that I'm thinking about here. So by the way, I do not give a shit about only fans. Everyone talks about only fans. The only thing I care about is Brap Barbie. Do you know who that is? I think that's her name.

Bad. Bad Bobby. What did you say? I thought it was Brap. I thought it's like an R and an H in the first word. Just an H. Wait, it's bad? That's how you smell bad?

Yeah. That's stupid. I feel like you're up to speed on Bad Bobby. What's her name? Bad Barby? I don't know. Bad baby. I just know her as to catch me outside girl from Mari.

But, uh, or Dr. Phil or some bullshit. Anyway, that's the only person I know. And it's like, she changed like races. Was she black now or white? What is she supposed to be? She's white. She's now black. Oh, well.

Have you seen her to Google? Google bad baby. All right? Whatever. She, she, she switched. She's Jewish and her mom's Italian. She, really? And then and then now she's being like criticized because she's like,

that people say it's like modern day blackface because she's like really like changed her look. Like when she was on Dr. Phil, she looked like a, you know, I don't know, like a spoiled white girl or something like that. And anyways, whatever. It doesn't matter. Well, Brat Barbie. She kills it on her name is. She kills it. She kills it.

And like apparently she bought like a $20 million house. So whatever. So bad Harvey. The company crushes it. So they do billions of dollars in revenue. The owner whose name is now public so we can talk about him. Leo, he's a fan of the pod, friend of the house. He, I think he cleared or the company cleared 500 million in profits in 2020 or 2021.

Like just an insanely profitable, insanely big business. Okay. And what is the only? Only fans. Only fans is basically like a storefront where anybody can sell pictures or videos. So you're selling content. And so, you know, I do e-commerce. I come from the Shopify world. I know that in Shopify, Shopify is your storefront. That's your equivalent of OnlyFans. But you use like this whole host of tools around it to make your store sell better, to increase sales. So you'll use Clavio to, you know, grab people's email addresses and then send them automated emails. I know where you're going with those. one. You use, you know, this app to boost your, you know, to upsells automatically, right, to cross-sell or up-sell new products so that you increase the dollar value per customer. So you use all these different things. OnlyFans kind of has none of this stuff. But it has the same volume and the same like, you know, like seriousness of any of these other big storefront

slash marketplace type of ideas. And so I think there's a whole world of OnlyFans SaaS tools that can be built. And there are some. So like, but do they have an ecosystem? Like, you don't need, you don't, the, they just use it on their own. You don't have to like plug in to only fans. You just like, um, there's not like a platform you have to go, be approved to sell under to be an app. like the way Shopify does, you got to be in the Shopify app store. But do they have like, oh, so they don't have, but there's no only fans app store.

No, you just, you just sign up and you just use products. So for example, there are products that are like chat bots. So what they do is somebody follows you or they subscribe, uh, either. either they're a free follower or maybe they're paying the $5 a month subscription. But where you really make your money is what they call pay-per-view. And so that's where you sell like, oh, I did a photo shoot, whatever, like, you know, I dressed up like Catwoman, pay $19 to unlock, right, that piece of content. And so what these bots, these SaaS tools are doing is they basically are like,

hey, we will go message all of your followers as if it's you being like, hey, did you see my Catwoman thing? I think you're going to love it. full of 24 hours later. Like Picture 3 and the album was like just for you. Wink face, whatever, right? Like this is just a bot. And what is this? This is a sales rep that is going around for you doing sales and selling your content, selling

your product. And so all the tools today are pretty rudimentary. They are pretty or they're just like, they're just missing certain things from certain ecosystems. And I think somebody could do what Andrew, Andrew Wilkinson did with Wecommerce or where basically rolled up a set of plugins and tools. I think that you could do that in the OnlyFans world. Now, to do this, why am I not doing this?

Well, I don't want to deal with people on OnlyFans every day. I don't want to be like selling this content every day. It's not like, what's it called like? It's not my Ike guy. It's the thing I've put on this earth to do. Yeah. But we got a bunch of friends who are less, you know, a little less different things about.

Yeah. Different standard. Maybe we were not going to say lower or higher standards. We'll say more wide. Wider standards. Yeah. Left or right. Yeah.

It's not a, you know, our bars up here. It's one else's bars out here. It's just, it's a little wider. Yeah. So if you're one of these wide standard fellas out there, I think there's a lot of opportunity. If your moral compass is a little wobbly. And there's a whole, the whole ecosystem, right? So you want to start an agency, only fans,

agencies do really, really well, right? Because they take care of the back office. They take her growth for, for these only fans creators. I know two people personally that have built only fans like just SEO optimized websites that are like search engine. So it's like find a creator, discover a creator, search for a person. No way. Who? And they're like metric sites. And they've built them and they're either like cash flowing really, really well, like, you know, to the tune of like, you know, 100 grand a month of free cash flow or they sold them for like two, three million. Is one of them called fans metric? I don't want to say because I kind of already said some numbers.

So yeah, there are like Ben, we know too personally that that did this. And so metrics, like in any ecosystem, same thing with Twitch. It was like there was a metric site and the metric site got big. Then there were stream labs. And stream labs made it easy for somebody to like accept tips and donations. And they made like alert system so that every time you got a tip or donation, you could automatically acknowledge that person, which leads to more tips. And stream labs became an indispensable tool for.

every Twitch creator. What is the stream labs of OnlyFans? Dude, that's so fascinating. There is so much opportunity to build SaaS tooling for these creators, to build agencies, to build a whole bunch of different opportunities around this ecosystem because most people aren't going to go there, myself included. And if you do go there, it's like new and growing so fast that the pie is big, but it's not totally saturated the same way that Shopify feels quite saturated or, you know,

tools for iPhone developers or whatever seems pretty pretty saturated do you follow um have you ever seen that ticot guy who goes up to people with fancy cars and he goes hey what do you do for a living yeah of course uh what's his name brandon mac i think or something mac uh it's awesome and yeah for some reason all of it feels like all of the ones lately have all been it's always hot girls and they like make jokes and then they finally admit that they do only fans and only fans is one of those ideas when when I heard about it, like five years ago, I'm like, who the fuck's going to pay for that? Like, just Google it. Like, you'll see the same thing.

Just like, yeah. Google that person's name followed by the word nude and you'll like find exactly what you want. Like, why would you pay $20 a month for this? And obviously they proved me wrong. And it's gotten to be such a huge thing that it seems like if I go to L.A., you see a hot girl out of a fancy car, like just based off my, me scrolling in bed at night, it's like, oh, they're definitely an only, it's an only fans model.

and that is like totally new and strange to me and that is what made me feel like oh this is like going to be much actually much bigger it's significantly more mainstream than I ever thought like no one would make like maybe now people will make jokes about porn hub but like every guy out there has like five or ten porn sites

that they go to and never in a million years would they say out loud what it is do you know what I mean in fact I'm not even going to say any words for the rest of the segment and now it's like only fans is like a thing that like well we we talk about because it's like so mainstream popular and I find it to be incredibly fascinating like even just in the last four years we started mentioning the word porn hub because they would do funny skits like during the Super Bowl or they would like you know do fun it's like become a joke but that has just happened by the way one good

idea was just to do another only fans and so I forgot what it's called fansley or fans only I think it's fansley fansley is just like if you don't want to be on only fans come on fansley and they're just like, well, we'll be number two. It's fine. We'll make some different decisions. Like we allow whatever like, you know, I don't know what they're different. Like cartoon creators or something like that. Like, you know, it can be like a digital thing or whatever.

Like there's seven minute abs and some fans lead is just going to be six minute abs. It's like, yeah, it's the same thing. We charge you only 9% instead of 10. Exactly. And so, and then they're doing pretty pretty well. Like they do they do fairly well. And so I think there was just this was just one of those winning ideas. It was one of those really big winning ideas.

I don't know if I told you this, by the way. I had a buddy who was a VC who kind of quit his job and was going to raise his own fund. And then he was just like, he identified, I think three years ago, he goes, only fans. And I go, what? And he goes, only fans. It's going to be massive. And I go, I think it's already pretty big. At that time, it seemed pretty big for what it was.

I was like, dude, how popular can this get? Like, that's crazy. What's it worth now, you think? What could it sell for now? I don't even know. I don't know. I think very, very conservatively, $2 billion is my guess,

and aggressively closer to 10. I don't know. It's hard to say. All the market, like multiples just got changed. So it's hard to know. Also, you know, there's not that many buyers for OnlyFans.

So this is a problem with the LLBians. That's what I was getting at. Yeah. Can't really go public and there's not that many buyers, but it's super, super profitable. And so my buddy was like, it's going to be big. I'm going to spend the next year trying to

get ownership in Onlyfans. I go, what do you mean? Like, just, I guess you're going to reach out. He goes, yeah, but if it doesn't work, like, I'm going to find a way to get ownership. I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, I'm going to invest in it. I'm going to help them. I'm going to do anything I can.

And he literally made that his mission for like a year. Did he get it? And he did it. He was able to, like, they didn't let anybody invest. But this guy was able to go in and get advisory shares by helping them out in all these different ways. And he did it. He got a piece of it. And he was right.

He sent me, he goes, I remember when Twitch acquired us, he goes, only fans will be bigger than Twitch. I go bigger than Twitch, no way. And I was like, dude, I don't think you know. Twitch is like one of the top six like most visited websites in America or something like that. Like most traffic or something. And he goes, yeah, you'll see.

And he was right. It passed Twitch in terms of users and revenue in the last year. And I was like, wow, this guy really like called his shot of being super, super bullish on Lonely fans. He was absolutely correct. Dude, does he also own 600 million? dollars for the real estate. This guy sounds awesome. No, different guy.

Yeah, I mean, I'm on board. I think, I think, you know, Wee Commerce is an interesting company. Wecommerce is Andrew Wilkinson, you know, fan of the pod or a friend of the pod. He comes in all the time. Their market cap is decimated right now. It sucks right now. But their business is pretty good. Like, it's a good business. It's way undervalued. But I think it's an interesting model. And yeah, I'm on board with your aggressive friend. who pushed his way into OnlyFans. Do you have a pregame routine you do before this podcast?

I listen to music and I review all my notes. That's about it. Like a specific song or just like generally whatever is on? I use Pandora and then I, um, one hour before. So I have my schedule locked in. So for the people listening, we record for one hour. And so we're usually here at the top of the hour. And then we start.

And then one hour before that, it's my quiet time where I like review everything. Quiet time. Well, like, people are like messaging me and I'm like, hey, I can't talk to you right now. I'm preparing. And so it's my time to like read notes and like I scan the news and I just want to know what's going on in the world. Yeah, my daughter has that. That's great time. I love it.

What do you do? My sister invented this great thing because she's like, dude, my kids don't want to sleep and they just want to play. And so she's like, I don't even care if they're asleep. I just want them to go to the room and just like not talk to me and just stay in the bed and like have fun. And so she created nighttime sister playtime. And so it's this a hilarious thing where they're like, oh, it's nighttime sister playtime. And they get to go run into their beds and like the two sisters can play together, but they have to be quiet because it's nighttime sister playtime. Nobody else is allowed in, which means don't bother mommy and daddy.

And I just thought, what a hilarious rebrand of go in the room, shut the door and shut up. And so now whenever I'm doing something, like even work wise, like with my coworkers and like our e-com thing or whatever, I'm like, all right, it's nighttime sister playtime. Like that just means like, don't talk to. bother me with Slack and don't talk to me. I'm going to go do some work now. That's what I have. I mean, Daddy, got to go do things. Dude, I just like, I blame everything on the pod. I'll be like, hey, can't prepare for the pod. Don't talk to me, please. Because everyone knows it's like a deadline. Why, do you have a routine? Um, I got well, I kind of have one, but I was making fun of myself this morning about it. So my schedule is similar, I think, to you where now the morning is all locked

in where it's like, I work out at a specific time. And then at the end of the workout, I do my like 10 minutes of like mindset stuff that I do. And and it's like, it's really good. Everything's really healthy, but it's almost comically healthy where I was doing it today. And I was like, I was like,

I was like, I'm that cliche tech guy. That's like, things have changed. Fasted car. Yeah, I do my fasted cardio. And then I,

I, you know, seven and a half minutes in the sauna. Then I, you know, 11 minutes uninterrupted staring at the sun. It's like, I have,

I have sex for three minutes. three times a day. It's a study show that it's better. I'm like doing all these like life optimization things that really I'm like I'm not a huge fan of those things because I feel like individually I like all of them. But together I'm like, am I this delicate that I need to be like this, you know, like am I like I'm not a I'm not one of these like performance F1 cars or whatever that's like it has to be like perfectly balanced everywhere. I don't want to be so fragile. You are what you are what you didn't want to be now. I think that's good. You look better.

You look, I think you look significantly better than you did three years ago. That's for sure. Yeah, but that could be, that could be anything. Who knows? Who knows what that could be? Wait, let me tell you really quick. I don't know if that's the morning routine because that's, that's been more recent. Speaking of morning routines, I got to tell, I was actually excited to tell you about this.

So I'll tell you about it more when I'm done with it. But I met this guy on Twitter named Isaac French. Do you know Isaac French? He's that guy who. No, but it's a strong name. It's a strong name. And that's why I got interested in him, frankly. but he like he's that guy who has that

not gonna lie French I'm here for the name dude Isaac French is his name I met him on Twitter he's he's the guy who he bought up like a five acre plot of land and like built cabins on it and turned it into an Airbnb that's making like millions of dollars in sales and but he like he's only 25 and he like architect and oh right we featured him on the pot

yeah yeah yeah yeah and he like called you and he told you all the numbers and all that yeah and he like architect the whole thing and he like he's also an accountant so he did all the accounting and then he even like hired all the builders himself so he was the general contractor just this interesting guy I hung out with him I met him on Twitter we actually I haven't eventually met up with him he's really fascinating and he's part of this uh religion I guess is the right way to describe it called homestead heritage and basically if you if you're an outsider it kind of looks like a menonite society a little bit you know like what menonites are no what is that you ever seen Amish

people. Yeah. So this is like he would not say that they're the same and they aren't. But from an outside perspective, it all like looks a little similar. And so- By the way, those are the best descriptions where it's like, they'd be kind of offended at this, but this is what it is. Well, they're like objectively not the same.

But like if you go, I posted their website in the thing in the chat. You'll see guys wearing like those big white hats and like there's like a cow or like a horse like tilling the land and they're walking alongside it. And like a lot of the women. wear like the long dresses and like and so listen to the description of their religion it's a religion but it's also a community but listen homesed heritage is an agrarian and craft based intentional christian community its literature stresses simplicity sustainability self-sufficiency cooperation service and quality craftsmanship and so it's this like super i don't understand any

of that what does that mean what does any of that mean yeah yeah dude it's hard to explain It's hard to understand if you don't know, but I spent time with them and he's taught me all this. But like basically somehow they, they derived from like Christian, from the Bible or something like it's their like it's their duty or something to like create like high quality craftmanship like stuff and to like farm on the land and be sustainable. And like there's you find God and like doing hard work and good work and being honest and creating stuff with your hands. That's like again, this like huge generalization from a massive outside person. perspective. But basically, they like make their own food. So if you, they own a 500 acres in Waco, Texas, which is about two hours, is, like, from Austin. And they like, all their food is like made on that land. And like within the community, they share food with one another. And they're also

pretty savvy at business. Like, I don't know how that kind of comes into this. But like, they like, he's an, he's an accountant. And so he's like, oh, I just love like being diligent with numbers. And I'm like, oh my God, you're making me weak at the needs, my man. Like, telling me. So anyway, this weekend, he's having like, it's like their festival. They do like a festival where you can go in and buy like their arts and crafts. And I'm driving 90 minutes to go there. And like, we're going to like sing Christmas songs and like buy arts and crafts. And I'm incredibly excited to show you like or to report back about what it's like.

This community is so fascinating to me. And so it's kind of interesting. I'm imagining. Do you watch the office? You know when Dwight has his Airbnb? I'm imagining that too. Yes. Shrewd farms. That's what I'm imagining and you're going to go meet Moes. Wow, that is, that is incredible. You know, if you told me, if you live this way, you can live till 200, I might do it then. That is how big the cost is to me of like,

yo, go make, go till your own food. I don't even know what tilling is, to be honest with you. I don't know if something you do with your hands or your feet, right? Like, what is tilling? I think it's when like a cow like pulls along like a rake or something. And, and it like moves the soil, then you can like plant shit in it. I don't know. But dude, I'll watch that show. I would bet my, well, I bet you these people are pretty happy. I think that there is like happiness and simplicity, but like, who the hell knows?

Everyone's unhappy. But anyway, that's what I'm doing this weekend. I'm going to report back. Well, I like that it's kind of like Amish people that love money. That's kind of already intriguing, right? Like, you know, tell me more. Yeah, which is basically like, have you ever walked around in Brooklyn? And like, I know Ben Levy, who's here, like, lived in this part of or ish in

this part of Brooklyn. Have you ever been around like the Orthodox Jews? No, but you've said they run the place in Brooklyn. They run the place, man. And they like, you'll walk around in parts of Brooklyn and they'll be speaking Yiddish or like you go to certain stores and like everything's in Yiddish and you're like, am I in a different country? This is wild. And they kind of like, like you like help others in the community. It's really fascinating. I love these. I actually like those cultures. I think it's really interesting that those exist. All right. I think that's it for today. I'm going to save the rest for next episode.