My First Million - My First Million's Origin Story, How to Find Winners, and More

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about the roadmap for new start-ups, how the podcast came to be and much, much more. ----- Links: * CyberLeads * @alexwestco * Indie Hackers * DeadEyes podcast * Losers Exist, Don't Hire Them - blog post * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ----- Show Notes: (01:50) - Cyberleads.com (11:50) - Question: What would you do if you found a brick of cocaine? (20:35) - DeadEyes podcast (44:30) - How My First Million podcast came to be (51:50) - Winners exist, here's how to attract them ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Describe your approach. Like, okay, you're starting a company from scratch. I would say, like, it's just a question of priorities. And I would say this versus priorities is building an awesome team. They're recruiting, like, high-level people. And then, like, really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's like the, that's the non-poking fun way of looking at it. Like, that's their priority.

So what's your priority when you, like, start an endeavor? Did you see this email I sent you? So I forwarded you, like an investor update I got. Did you see that email I said? No from who? Well, I can't say because I was sort of like, you know, this person's smart.

They actually sold a company before. Which address did you send it to? I don't know. Maybe you're like hustle one. I don't know. But just see if you stop seeing an email for me. Anyways, I'll just explain to you. You don't even need to read the email.

Basically, this is like, I was like, this is so different than anything I would do. And I was like, if this person wasn't already successful, like they built a cool company before this. They are a smart person. I've met them before. But they, you know, their company updates or their investor updates are highly like, aspirational.

Like, so they haven't launched yet. The team is like, it's like, oh, the team is growing. We have like, I don't know, I don't know how many people they have like 30, 40 people now. We did our, you know, a second offsite because remote work, you know, is hard to build our bonds. And on our offsite, we played these games and we did this mission statement. thing. And here's our values. And then like on top of the values, we're thinking about like how to build a culture that's really, you know, transparent and collaborative. And like, again, haven't launched yet. No revenue, no nothing. But like professional photographer. But yeah, professional photographer. The update is like super robust. And like, again, on one hand, I'm like, when I read this, I'm just like, oh, no, like this is like, it's like watching a car drive off a cliff. It's like, this is like all the parts of a startup, except for the important parts. And like, I know they must be doing the important.

They must be building the product too. It's not like they're not. But like I would never prioritize these things in my own companies. I know you're the same way where we're both a little bit like, you know, brash and like, you know, you're like, no, the office doesn't have cups. Like we use these like. Use your hands. Yeah.

Can you put your hand like this? Yeah. What do they're the answer for, dog? Yeah. Like they don't call me Sam Hosewater par for nothing. Like, grab the hose and suck some down. Like, if you need some, I'll bring it to your desk so you don't have to waste time.

He's convenient. The hose is 18 foot. I sprung for the big one. And so I know you're like me where like we do this like very bootleg company building. And like, you know, oh, like we look up and it's like, oh shit, we have 18 dudes. Okay, diversity. Yeah. Okay.

Like we're, you know, we're going to change that. Or it's like, oh, yeah. Come to my house tonight. I'm going to cook for you guys. I don't know what. Like, can you guys just stop it Safeway and just buy like. with a bunch of chips. Like every,

you're like chips, right? It's like, everybody likes chips. Everybody go buy your favorite bag of chips. That's what we're doing tonight. Like, you know,

it's like these kind of company building at the minimum and it's like the as you go style. And then I see this and I'm like either, like either there's just like many play styles. That's how you can win in different ways or they're way wrong or I'm way wrong. I don't know. What do you think about this sort of thing?

I think that for a very particular type of person, I wouldn't be concerned about this type of email. I think that you should most likely assume you are not that person. Not even like you, but like anyone. Anyone do it. They should default today or not this person. Like if you are, you know, like some like big swinging dick, some big deal. Here's the analogy.

It's like Steve Jobs didn't like, you know, he was like a perfectionist. He would like build it and then release the perfect product. He wasn't trying to iterate. He didn't ask consumers from feedback, you know, like early on early and often. He was a product visionary genius. Okay. But like to assume that you're Steve Jobsish. Yeah.

That assumed that you're that is like dangerous. It's a dangerous path to go down. I think this is a horrible idea. You and I have a friend that started a company. And when they were only two people, him and the business partner, they hired a CEO coach so they could help with culture building. And that's another sign. But yeah, I think, and they would go to like retreats like for like this type of stuff.

So no, I think that this is not a good sign. It's not very good at all. Have you, I guess like what's your, describe your approach. Like, okay, you're starting a company from scratch. I would say like it's just a question of priorities. And I would say this versus priorities is building an awesome team. they're recruiting like high level people and then like really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's like that's the non like non poking fun way of looking at it.

It's like that's their priority. So what's your priority when you like start an endeavor? So yeah, I'm doing that now. So like I'm going to start getting into it and we can talk about it, but I'm going to start getting into something. And I'm thinking like, all right, is this something that I want to build to sell or is this something that I want to run forever? Because that actually kind of matters on how you set up your entity. So I think about like what do I want personally? What type of life do I want?

And how long do I want to operate this for? So what would you do differently? Let's say build for, own forever or build a sell. What's the, what's the core difference? Well, if you want to pay yourself from the business as you go, an LLC makes sense.

If you want to sell the company and you're willing to not pay yourself a little bit, or you only want to pay yourself as a W-2, then you want to be a core, like a C-Corp. And if you want to, I guess you could be an S-Corp, but if you want to sell your company in five plus years and take advantage of QSBS, which is $10 million of tax, or sorry, $3 million of tax savings,

then you for sure want to be a C-Corp because you can't get that on the other two. So I would think about like that, like what type of structure do I want this to be? Of course, I have a history of getting hits. So like if you don't have a history of like making money, then like I wouldn't even worry about this shit. You know what I mean?

Right. Like I've proven to myself that like if I say I'm going to do something, I follow through. You don't want to be the nerd that just buys business cards before you even have anything done. Correct point. Okay. So that's like literally a company structure. But by the way, I think I told you this, one of the kind of like tax slash lawyer people that's like kind of advising us, they gave us a pretty great structure.

That gives us best of both. They're like, just have a C-corp that owns the business assets. And that's what will be eligible for QSBS down the road. but then the C-Corp will pay your LLCs, your LLCs for each, you know, the co-founders, like as a management thing. And so you're going to get, you're going to get personally paid out through your LLC.

And then, but you still retain the long-term benefits of raising money or selling a C-Corp. Yeah, that's, but is the stock owned by the C-Corp? Yeah, so the company, well, C-Corp is the one issuing the stock. It has the stock. That's the stock that we want to eventually sell. So if you do a stock purchase. And we can either, and then the LLC doesn't need to own that stock.

It's higher as a management company. That's like savvy shit that I would have to like look into it, make sure I'm doing it right because there's a, there's a clock. You need to own it for five years. Additionally, what you could do is you can issue shares to family members in different trusts. So many,

many people could take advantage of the QSBS and other long-term capital gains, things like that. So I think a little bit about that stuff. And I think like what, right now, every business that I'm thinking of, I think about how many employees do I need to run this and what type of employee am I going to have to hire? Because when you go big with some ideas,

you're going to have to hire these like smart ass, ex-Harvard, ex-Facebook type of folks. You don't have to, but you know, like that type of thing. Or is this like, no, I can actually hire this like $60,000 a year person, but where are they going to be coming from? And do I actually want or not want to work with that type of person? So I think about who am I going to have to employ? employ and what the business model is going to be.

And so how stressful will that be? Advertising was really stressful because we had to go out and well, you're in it now. You got to hunt every single month. And that can be a bit stressful. And so now I'm looking at what it's a little bit more recurring, which is less stressful. So I'm thinking a lot about business model. I'm thinking about what type of lifestyle I want. And I'm thinking about who I'd have to hire.

And you're thinking about these things, but that's not your priority list. Right. So like, I mean like in terms of action, right? So that's thinking and planning. cool that'll take you a couple days to be kind of noodling on that stuff in terms of how do you like that's actually the hardest that's actually the hardest part is figuring out because that's what ben said figuring out what you're figuring out what you want but in terms of the action i figure out i narrow it down to what's the one thing that can make this fail or work and so let's just say

that i'm creating um uh let's say i'm creating a hub spot let's say i'm hubspot let's say i'm hubspot Let's say I'm HubSpot a few years ago. I'm creating HubSpot. So there's like a few items that could, that need to work, or at least I would think they need to work in order to make happen. So like, can I recruit engineers is probably one. Do people want this? And are my engineers even capable enough to create this?

And so if I'm HubSpot, I'm like, well, Salesforce exists. So I actually think that people can build this. Like it's, I'm able to build this product. And number two, I know a bunch of engineers and I'm pretty good at sales. I think I can recruit engineers. So then it's like, well, but do people want this? So that's like the, it's like, oh, okay, boom, that's it.

That's the thing where it's like I have to figure that out before I move on to the next steps. And so I go out and try to solve that. For a company like HubSpot, I would actually just do tons of phone calls and I would make a judgment call based on that. For this like little small copywriting things, trycopy that.com. That thing that. Yeah, I just, no, with that, I just put a pre-sense. on there and I got $5,000 of pre-sales. And with trends, we have $50,000 of pre-sales. So depending on how easy the transaction is, if it's $1,000 or less in transactional value, I can probably create a

landing page and pre-sell it. We pre-sold this $1,000 thing for trends and we were going to charge $10,000 for it when it came out. We pre-sold, I think we got $100,000. So we got $1,000 from 100 different people to launch it. And so if it's under $1,000, my first step is selling it and giving me, giving me myself one month to pull it off. Right. Yeah, that's exactly right. To me, I simplify it like, how do I make sure, like, how do I figure out do people want

it? Step one. Do people want this? And that's either pre-selling, talking to people, just kind of my own gut. Do people want this? second thing is where will I get customers? Okay, I think I could probably get the first 10 customers from here, first 100 customers from there.

But like on an ongoing basis, do I have like a repeatable way to get customers? And if I know the answer to those two questions, then I just go and I don't do other things besides those two things. I build the thing that they want and I give it to them and see if they want, see if they actually love it or if they just kind of like it. And then I see if the way to get customers actually works. And once I do those two things, things, I don't really want to do anything else besides those two things for like a long period

of time and like all the other stuff, raising money, company culture, hiring, you know, corporate structure, naming, branding, packaging, design, all comes after. Yeah. And you have to, my opinion is not only do you have to not, you have to like say I'm not going to worry about that at this point. But you also have to say, I'm actively actually going to avoid it. So it's like, I'm going to like actively not care about it. You know what I mean? And you have to like, and you kind of have to like take that stance. And I think there's actually some products where the question is not do people want this. So like there's some stuff that I'll create that I'm like, well, I already know people want this. Like I know they're going to buy it. The

question is like, can I even get customers to this repeatedly? And then that's actually Can I tell you a couple tactics that helped me with this? I wonder if you did something like this. So I have learned that it's actually best to be a little bit what I'll call brutal about this. Okay. So what do I mean by brutal about this? It is very easy. Like when somebody hears that, oh, yeah, you first figure out, do people want this?

And you try to like, you know, pre-sell it or offer it to them and see if they sign up for the waitlist or they pre-buy or whatever. And then you figure out, where am I getting customers repeatedly? And, like, you test that marketing channel. And, like, those are the only two things you do. you say no to everything else. That sounds so simple. And then you like tell someone, go try to build a startup and they'll do everything else besides those two things.

That's because that's like the embarrassing hard stuff. Yeah, because it's the hard stuff. And if it doesn't work, the car doesn't move anywhere. Whereas you can do a whole bunch of other stuff and it feels like you're moving. But the reality is you're not moving forward. You're moving sideways.

And so, but at least moving feels like you're moving. And so people will gravitate which is things. So let me give you some examples. Yesterday there was a tweet. about Furcon, who was my old co-founder by my last startup. And Furcon is like, you know, a man of action. You know, a few words, a lot of action.

And, you know, like, if you ever ask him, like, when do you think you could do this? It is rare for him to not be like, I should be able to ship it tonight. Now, he only hits the tonight thing. Like, I would say 30% of the time. Like 30% of the time, nothing happens. 70% of the time he gets like a crappy version that's like not ready.

But like, he'll at 2 a.m. There will be a message from him. Be like, here's where I left it. And, you know, like, 10 or 20% time he actually finishes the thing. But he almost never says anything besides like, yeah, we should be able to do that tonight. And so I learned that from him.

And every engineer we hired learned that from him. We're like, you can't give him a timeline. That's not tonight. If you say something besides tonight, he's just going to be like, what the fuck you're talking about? So he now has his new like incubator thing called f.com. What was that picture of that?

Dude, it looks sexy as hell, right? What was that room? He bought this 10,000 square foot or at least this 10,000 square foot space in Fort Mason. It was beautiful. when everybody was leaving San Francisco and then remote work shut down all the offices and schools and in-person events, he was like the only buyer.

He was like, yeah, I want a big space. I'm in the middle of San Francisco, in the best part of San Francisco. So he's like, you can see the water, the bridge. He got 10,000 square feet. He's like, oh, I'm going to put a robotics lab, a hardware lab desks. And there's going to have a bunch of engineers

come make stuff here. You don't have to pay me, like, just come build stuff. And it's like beautiful. And now he's been renovating it. So it's like, he started with an empty blank shell. and now it looks awesome. Does he make money from that?

Or is he just spending money hoping that one of the companies takes off? He's like he's made a bunch of money and he's also just like, he invests in the incubator company, in the companies that are there. He invests in a bunch of them. And like those are already doing well. So somebody tweeted out, somebody who's working out of there, they go, one thing that Furcon does around the office is if a developer spends like more

than a day, I think it's like if you spend more than a day on local host, which is basically just means like you're building your website project, but you didn't ship it to the world. Like nobody else besides your laptop can access the site. If you spend more than a day, he'll just start calling you local host until you ship it. He'll stop using your name and he'll just call you local host because you're just local host now, right?

Like you don't want people to use your product. So you just, all right, local host, you want to get lunch? And like, I wanted to tweet this out. I knew people would take it the wrong way. But like that is a style we kind of incubated at our last startup. it's sort of like bully management. And it's not that you're bullying people. It's that you're bullying your values.

It's like, how do I like live my values instead of just say, we care about, you know, like building things fast? It's like, no, if you don't build things and get it to customers, you will get ridiculed here because that is not cool in our books. You want cool, you want respect. Then you got to do the thing we respect. And like, if you don't, we're going to tease you until you do it. I was given a guy a hard time in the trends group because he's, he posted, hey, so I've got six podcast episodes already recorded. Can someone give me an answer on which hosting platform is better?

And I reply to go, well, that's not really the important question. The important question is, why did you record six, like, just release one and, and just post it. It was like, well, by the way, when I started this podcast, when I started this podcast, what did I do? I message you on Facebook, I go, hey, I'm starting a podcast that I think, you know, it's going to be awesome. you know, here's the concept. I was literally making it up as I was, I made up the name, made up the concept right there on the spot. I knew I wanted to do a podcast generally.

And I go, I go, you know, you have this awesome audience, but no audio content. I'll make great audio content if you'll put in front of your audience. And then I was like, I'm going to send you the first, I'll send you the first episode later today. There was no first episode. I then go book a studio, record the episode and send it to you within 24 hours in order for you to like see that I'm like being legit about it.

And it was live like two weeks later, right? Yeah, I was like, okay, this is ready to go. Like, here, it's, nobody's listening to it, but it's in the store. You can go listen to the podcast if you want to. The guy was like, we got, we got six done. And I'm like, but that's not the question that you do. Like, the question is, why do you have six done and done none live? Like, that's just crazy.

Right. Because people default to they, it's embarrassing and it's to post that shit. So let me give you some other examples of this of being brutal about it. At Monkey Inferno, when we were working there, we would, sometimes let like kind of interesting engineering guys like just hang out in our office. And they would, we were just like, oh, just work from here. No, you don't need to pay us. It's not a we work.

It's like, to stick office, we got extra space. Just come here and work. Just bring some good energy. And so these guys came and they, they were working there. They had this idea that was really cool. And then they were like, they would always ask us questions that were like, this investors interested. You know, we're thinking about raising money.

You know, how should we think about this? Can you look at our debt? Can you do this and that? I'm like, and it's like, hey, is your guys product? Do you have your product built? Like, do you have users? It's like, those are more important than this fundraising stuff. But like, I get it.

It's flattering when an investor wants to give you money. But like, now that investor just took over your day. Like, now your day is all about that instead of like the main thing, right? Like, hey, guys. And whatever happened to? The main thing. So then, no, so then they get into Ycominator. They're like, oh, we got into Y Combinator.

And we're like, awesome. those guys will keep you on track. And then over the next six weeks, it was like, yo, you're NYC. Like, what's going on? What's it like to be in YC? I've never done it. Like, heard it's awesome.

And they're like, oh, yeah, the office hours are great. They're bringing up this and that. And we're like, hey, so how many users you guys got? And they'd be like, um, and they would like, they didn't know the number. Oh, my God. And me and Furkan just looked at each other. They were like, all right, new rule. If we ask you how many users you have, how many daily active users you have?

You don't know the number, like 10 pushups. And they're like, ha, ha, we're like, No, we're serious about that. And then they still didn't know for two more days. And they had to look up the dashboard. And we're like, all right, Ted Bush is not working. So we took a marker and we started writing a giant zero on the, like the wall behind them.

And we're like, this is the number of users you have according to us because you don't know. So we're just going to keep putting zero here. And like, it's your job to like change this to be like the number of users you have. Every day when you come to the office, you're going to see this giant zero above your head until you change that. And like, again, this worked. And like all of a sudden, they started thinking about how to, of users they had. They didn't want that giant zero hanging over their head.

And I've just seen many versions of this. I've heard a story about Peter Thiel doing this too. Peter Thiel's values were all about like focus. And so his thing was everybody at PayPal when he was the CEO of PayPal would have one thing that they were responsible for. And the list could only be one. They had one big thing to care about. And if you tried to talk to Peter like, hey, Peter, you know, yeah, the market,

you know, the marketing stuff's going well. But I had this idea around this feature. He would literally just leave. the room. If you ever tried to speak to him about the non-one thing you were assigned, he would just ignore you. He's like, oh, that's not, remember, we decided what's important. So by definition, this is not important. So by definition, I'm just not going to talk to you about non-important things. I'm going to leave, right? Like, I don't know how hard, I don't know how real that anecdote is because I wasn't there. But like, let's just say, like, directionally, it's true.

I think that that is, like, a really important way to, like, operate a young company. What happened to the guys from your office? they ended up getting into YC they ended up getting better they like they kind of grew but then they lost like like once the growth wasn't like instant here's my read of it

they pivoted they pivoted and disbanded they're all doing different things now one guy one guy's like you know working on a different company another guy's working on a different company and the third guy I've never heard I don't know where he went and probably found some cocaine somewhere and he had told me something once which was just like

he was like you know he had told me only once he was like Like they were building a marketplace of supply and demand. And like they, the reason we were all excited about them was because they got this huge amount of supply really quickly. They had just posted on Reddit and like people really wanted the thing. And so they started posting. But the demand side was slow.

And he was like, he's like when I, he's like with the supply side, it felt like I stepped on a landmine. I just like did one, I took one step and it just blew up. He goes, I want the demand to feel like that too. Dude. So on one hand, I respected that. On the other hand, I was like, dude, sometimes you got to like figure out how to get that. work. I don't respect that. And the reason why is, you know, we're taught like, you know, people could change. We can evolve. And I've actually, I think last year, I'm actually made the decision. I'm actually going to

assume people don't change. The way you are is the way you are and you're never changing. And that way of thinking. How hopeful of you. It's actually been amazing because like I'll meet someone and I'm just like, oh, you are a loser and you're always going to be a loser. You say you're going to do something. you don't do it. You don't have big dreams. You don't work hard. It's innocent until proven guilty. Yours is guilty until proven innocent.

100%. And then I meet someone who's just like a baller like Steph Smith. And I'm like, oh, well, you're just a winner. So just like maybe sometimes you're going to swing and miss, but you're always going to swing. Therefore, I'm on board forever with anything you do because I know exactly how you are and people never change. And you're just a winner. You win consistently. Whereas there's a bunch of other people.

There's this great article. It's called Losers Exist. Avoid them. And it's the founder of Bleacher. Report, Brian Greenberg, or Goldberg, and he writes a blog post about how he interviews people. And he's like, yeah, see, I just think that losers do exist. And like, not everyone's a winner. And I'm just going to try really hard to avoid those types of people. And his way of doing it is he would say, I ask you about the bottom fourth of your resume. So where he went to school? So if I'm

interviewing a candidate and she can't tell me like passionately about something that she studied for four years, it's like, oh, you're just a loser. Like, you're not, you don't care about philosophy, even though you studied that for four years. You're uninteresting and thus are a loser. But you interview this other woman and she could passionately tell you a story about something. And it's like, well, I don't even care about philosophy, but because you entertain me, like, you clearly, you're a curious, you're a winner. So anyway,

my way of thinking as of late is just people never change. My sister has a great phrase on this. You guys, people will say that people don't change. They change for the worse. So her default is even worse. Yeah, this person will change over time.

They're going to get worse. They're going to decay, basically. and like hardened in these like bad patterns until proven otherwise. I think that's actually a pretty good way of thinking about things. Dude, can I tell you about this last thing like this experiment I'm doing that I think relates to this, which is like losers exist how to avoid them. So here's my opposite. That's a good line, right? It's brilliant.

Here's my inversion of that. Winners exist. Here's how to attract them. And so I put out this thing the other day. I tweeted out this. I was like, hey. The $50,000 thing? Yeah.

I was like, yo, we just made $25. grand, like a wire just came in for Milk Road for 25 grand. I did not think that was going to work. I want to give it all. I want to give it away. And I said that, you know, crypto is full of speculators. There's too many speculators, not enough builders. So if you want to build something, here's the deal.

I will give away one, one, one, one, Eth, which is like $3,000. I was like, I'll give you $3,000. No strings attached. No equity to build whatever you want. Like you scratch your itch. And I just want to give it to builders. Here, here's the link to apply. go.

And two kind of amazing things happened of how, like, winners exist. Here's how to attract them. First, a bunch of people who are winners were like, hey, great idea. I'll put in money too. And it was just an excuse to touch base of like a bunch of these winners. So the prize pool is more than doubled already. And like, now we're giving away more money to more people because people are like, oh, this is cool.

And it was like the calm guy. It was Furcon. Yeah, the founder of Calm. Furcon was like, we'll match it. And then like, there was more people, but we were like, hey, let's just give away this first batch. and then like if this is cool we're gonna like we'll do more we can just grow this into a self-sustaining like builder grant it's philanthropy but like I don't instead of charity I'd rather give to like people

building shit and like I'm sorry to you know people who are like no there's people suffering out there I'm like yes but also like this is where I want to give money to is something like this um and by the way the whole like a wire came in today that was all bullshit like that was just like for the story like we just I was just like I want to give away this I'm willing to give away this much money. And the People need to realize that lying for the sake of a story is actually

okay. Have you remembered the book that we read about storytelling? Yes. Which one? Storyworthy? Story worthy. And he was like just lie. Like for example, if you're talking about like, yeah, so I was in the car of my teacher and she started flirting with me. And he was like, well, there was actually

like three people in the back seat. But like I couldn't say that because it wrote the story. The thing was like, don't lie to add, lie to omit details. I admit details. Just omit details that don't add to the point of the story. And so, yeah, mine was like, I kind of just framed it as like, oh, a wire just came in. Because a wire could have came in.

Oh, I could have came in. And it did come in in pieces. Like, the money did come to me somehow. You received a wire that day. And so like, so basically I told, like, this came on a whim. So I told you we hired that new guy, Safuan. And I was like, Sethon's 22, I think. And he's awesome.

and I just like having winners around me, like young, awesome, energetic people who want to like make shit happen. And I was like, yo, I want more people like you around. I'm not going to hire all of them. But like, how do I just get more like, you know when there was Peter Thiel did that thing where he like took like young people's blood

and like put it in his body? I want to do that. Allegedly. Yeah. I want young, young blood in my body. How do I? How am I going to do that? So I was like, all right,

let me just put out a grant for builders. This will attract people who A can build things. B, like know what one eth is and like one, one ether, like, and that $3,000 like mean something to them that this could like unlock like a month worth of like, it's like an excuse to go build that thing, right? So what happened? Almost a thousand applications came in in a week. And how long for an application?

It was like a form that was like, you know, what's your, I was like, what's your story? I was just like kind of open ended. And it was like, what do you want to build? Give me the tweet pitch of it. Why do you want to build it? you know, what's your handle, what your address, what your email, what, blah, blah. And so people wrote in, and I'll share the Airtable with you. It's kind of amazing.

All right. So there's like a bunch of junk. We shortlisted, like, about 150 people out of the, like, close to 1,000 as, like, strong. Like, this person's kind of like, either their story or their idea is strong. And then we, like, kind of got to the finalists, which are, like, these 35 people that are like, okay, these 35 people, they all seem, like, kind of worthy of getting this. And we're ultimately going to pick, like, I don't know, 15 or something for this batch of this batch of grand. And I think doing this is like this whole thing is going to take me, I think maybe three days total to like of attention to pull off. But what it's going to create is like just a bunch of young awesome energy, young being just like not your literal age, but like more like people who like psychographic.

Yeah, it's like somebody who has an idea, has energy, has optimism. And like doesn't think of all the reasons they shouldn't do it. Instead they like, yeah, fuck yeah, apply. I'm going to do this. And so they're going to be around me. And I think this is going to be so ROI positive in the long run that it's like insane. Dude, I've done these things before. And I think you did it before when you gave a business to someone, right?

Yeah. And I've never had it work out. Like it just kind of like went on the back shelf and they just kind of forgot about it. Yeah, it could be. And like, you know, that's why the main filter is like, are you going to actually do anything? Or are you just talking about it? Or like is your day job or your, you know, your student status, whatever, going to just trump this and you never get around to like actually making shit happen? That's the number one criteria here.

But dude, the stories are like amazing of like who writes in. It's like it just reminds you of like, oh, wow, the world is way bigger than the like the amount of people that I interact with on a day to day basis. Are you giving the money all to one person? No, no, no. There's going to be like 15 people who get the grant. And it's like a few grand each? Yeah. All right.

Well, I'm eager to see what's going to happen. When are you going to decide? We'll decide, like, in the next five days, who gets it? And then we're just, like, setting up. Like, we're just going to run the whole thing, you know, just like a telegram group or something like that. And, you know, we'll see what happens. But I guess my point is do things that create, that, like, attract winners to you, which is the opposite lesson of, like, losers and how to avoid them.

That's great advice. I think actually slightly less great advice is winners also exist. Here's how to get near them, get around them, get them around you. And, like, figure out different ways to, like, get them around you. This was one that, like, you know, not everybody can afford to, like, do a grant program or whatever. But, like, if I had no, if I had no money, I could have hustled and created this grant program instantaneously. I could have said, I could have emailed, you know, 50 people and been like, hey, will you put up $1,000 for this? Here's all the benefits you're going to get.

And, you know, which is how, by the way, I hired Safwan. He initially emailed me saying, hey, you should do a grant program. Here's five reasons why. and I was like, oh, that's actually a great idea. Will you do all the work? He's like, yeah, I'll do all the work. Did you ever read San Francisco's subreddit? No.

All right. So I used to go to the subreddit for San Francisco all the time. And there was this guy, it started like five years ago. He just said, hey, everyone. And he posted a picture of himself holding a beer. He goes, I'm at this bar. I forget it was in Hay, Ashbury. I'm at this bar.

Come down in your first drinks on me. And he just posted that. And like people made fun of them. And then he did it again the next week. And he did this for literally like 60 weeks in a row. And then he like became famous for the guy. He's like, oh, you need it. You want to have a good time.

This guy seems really nice. Everyone goes to talk. Sov he's a really cool dude. It'll buy your first drink, whatever. If you do that with like building cool shit, it actually works out quite well where it's like, hey, I'm building this thing. Tag along for the ride. It tends to work well.

The guy does it all the time. It's great. He like, he like, oh, come have first drinks on me. I'm down here. I wonder how much he spent. Dude, we used to do these mixers, these roommate mixers. in San Francisco and we would like only spend $500

but we were like the man like the most popular people for a long time. We did it every week for like two years. And what were you doing? 500 bucks went to doing what? I bought everyone beer. At a bar or?

At a bar. We'd host them at a bar and I would just be like, hey, can I get $2 beers? And I might just come every week and I'll spend at least $500 and I'm like, all right, cool. And so I was like, all right, here's my card.

Stop it at $500. It was pretty sick. Can we turn the ship around? We need to circle back. Business term. Let me tell you about a cool company that I just discovered. And the guy told me to tell you, hey, so I don't know if you know, I don't know if that was like he's a fan or if he actually knows you. Have you, it's called a, so I, I'm linking to it in here in the doc.

I'm highlighting it right now. It's called get cyberleads.com. Have you ever seen this? No. So who's the guy? I don't know I don't even know his name I just DMed him on Alex Alex Westco

Okay Yeah I don't think I know this first He said tell Sean I said hey Alex West is his name I didn't know if he was saying it As like a way that he knows you He must just be a fan All right

Let's get cyber leads The reason it's cool is It's just him And basically what it is Is it? You pay, let's see how much is it Is it? So you pay between $100 and $1,000 a month

For a bunch of different versions But basically, every month, just one time every month, he sends you a thousand plus handpicked companies that just raised a lot of money and are highly likely to go and look to outsource, whether it's technology or design. They're looking to outsource stuff. And if you're an agency owner, you sign up to this. And every month, you just get a bunch of new leads. And the lead list, it includes the CEO's name, the CEO's contact information,

what this person is likely to outsource, where they're located, how big they're. are and how much money they just raised. And the reason why this is cool is because it's so freaking simple, very clear value. It's just one person. It's making $300,000 a year. So, or sorry, yeah, $300,000 a year. So it's making, in March, he said he did $20,000 a month with a net profit of $17,000. It's now gone up to like $30,000 a month. But I just thought this was unique. And I love these types of businesses because the value proposition is so clear. If you just, one of these things closes a deal, it's worth it. And I actually think that you could do this for a bunch of different verticals. You've never seen this before? No, I've never, I've never seen this. How does he do the like,

what they're likely to outsource? Is he just guessing based on industry or something? I go, are you doing this handpicked? He goes, yeah, every report takes me out a hundred hours to do the whole leads list. And he sends one email per month. And if you go to the website and you click live demo, you can basically see what he sends you. It's just like an air table, an air table table. And you can kind of see all the information. Wow. That's kind of cool.

This is pretty cool, right? Yeah, good for him. And it's just him. And he's like, I was like, can this scale? He goes, I think I can get a million dollars a year pretty soon. And I'm not sure what I can do after that. But I think just me, this could get a million dollars. And honestly, I totally agree.

I think this is a beautiful business. I think this is really, really cool. So he said, okay, let's just look at his March numbers. All right. So he said, March, revenue, $20,000, cost $3,000 a month, net profit, $17K. Profit margin, 85%. Last March, for example, he was basically five times less. So revenue was $4,000 and now it's $20,000.

And so this is pretty good. This is basically one guy in a VA can run this. Yeah, one guy in a VA can run this thing. And it's providing, like you said, it's providing clear value in the sense that like, if I pay for this, I'm likely to get more customers and make more money. So it's like it pays for itself. And like it pays for itself is actually like a pretty valuable thing, which is like, there's a bunch of things in my businesses that I'm like, oh, yeah, I want to do that.

But, you know, I kind of have these other priorities. And it was like, well, I really do just need to look at all these things as like, can I hire somebody? and it be immediately value like, you know, accretive in the next six to 12 months because that job that I'm hiring them for is not to just make my life easier. It's to literally generate revenue and profits. And so like there is no way that if I hire this person, if they are competent, this has to be an ROI positive thing to do. And, you know, the only thing I need to consider is like, do I have the, do I have the bandwidth to hire this person? And so, and so to me, you know, like that's, and then there's products like that too. This is a product like that where it's like, yeah, I pay $99 or whatever $199 month, whatever this thing costs.

And like, if I can't make more than $199 off this, like that's just my own incompetence at that point. It's sick, man. It's really sick. And so it says it says there's a thousand leads. If you go to pricing for the prices range from $200 to $2,000. And it says, let's see, it says you get a thousand. leads. Maybe that includes like all the past months. It's pretty,

this is pretty cool. By the way, check out this tweet I put in the chat. This is a good example of like content that's not like it's like this is the easy mode of creating content that people resonate with. So this is just a beautiful tweet. All right. This guy tweeted out December 21st.

He goes, one year ago today I was fired for my job making $2,000 a month. Today I'm making $6,000 a month with my own business. And they post, more importantly, he posts a screenshot of his like calendars planner. And it says, fired, explanation point. Last day at work, that's like on the 21st, on the 22nd. Day one, a self-employed man, exclamation point. And it's just like you kind of root for the person. And, you know, what's in this content? It's nothing, but it's like by showing the raw, like,

planner and like what I wrote to myself that day, like these are like, these, these have like an emotional impact on people. And I think that's one thing that most people get wrong in content is that content is about emotion, not information. And something like that, it generates like a feeling of like rooting for the person that is like, most of you I know are really smart. And so they try to like outsmart everybody on content. And it's like you don't need to outsmart everybody. You need to trigger an emotional response,

whether it's outrage, it's like compassion. It's like, you know, awe-inspiring, whatever it is. And this is a great simple example of how you can make somebody root for you is, you know, a little tweet like this. This guy's a good find. I think he kind of, so there's this guy that, for context for the listener, There's a guy named Peter Lovell who I've been begging to get on the pod. And he keeps like saying yes and then ghosts and yes.

But anyway, this guy, Peter Lovell's, he's not exactly a one-man operation. I think now he's got contractors, but he's got like four or five different businesses. They're basically all the same thing, like job boards, collectively doing like four million or so in revenue. And he posts like cute, cool, insightful content on Twitter and blogs. This guy, Alex Wes, is kind of like in the same ballpark as that. as that guy, Peter Levels. Right. Like he's like cool, well designed.

It looks like he's like a like a nomad as well. But somebody needs to make the list. I feel like Steph Smith needs to do this. She used to make the definitive list of these like solopreneur, freelancer, digital nomad. Basically it's like the Peter levels, this guy where it's like, yeah, this person's on some journey. They're trying to get to 100K a month in like personal revenue.

But they have these principles. Like they're not trying to raise money. They're not trying to build a big team. They live nomadically. They're like just a good enough engineer and just good enough designer and just a good enough copywriter to make it happen. And they're like doing it all in public. And like there's like 20 of these people that I found on Twitter.

All of them are entertaining to me. And I feel like most people just don't know who those people are. And like actually like a good service would be to just aggregate them and put it in a newsletter. Like, hey, I'm following all these people doing this thing. Check this out. This guy posted an update about this thing. And like you can just make a newsletter following their work and probably like,

You know, build an audience of 50 to 100,000 people following you following them, which is sort of, you know, meta. Do you ever read Indie Hackers? I don't personally go there much, but I have for sure in the past. Indie Hackers is awesome. It started by his two guys, Cortland and Channing. Twins, right? They're twins.

Yeah, I've become friends with Channing over the years. Basically, it was like a forum for this weird genre of entrepreneurs called Indie Hackers, but they sold it to Stripe. And I have a feeling that each brother will make in the world of $20 million when Stripe goes public. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a little more, but I actually think it's above 20. They've never told me, I just am guessing,

because of when they sold to them. And if they sold for a million dollars, it would have gone up by that much. So anyway, on their website, they list interviews and they list all the revenue of the companies. And it's pretty amazing. and you could sort by revenue and you can just find like a list of companies

that basically you want to like get inspired by or copy. Right. Yeah, that's cool. And by the way, just look at their traffic. Like their traffic shows about a million, million to a million and a half monthly visitors. So, you know, good job by them of like, this is like real scale.

And in fact, this is probably like, like for Milk Road, I should go tell our story on indie hackers and product hunt. I could probably add 10,000 new subscribers with one day of one day of like, just crafting a story that goes on, just posting on both of these. I completely agree. I've done it both times.

We did it for trends. We made a lot of money. I like it. HopSpot allows all our teams to work together seamlessly, so no one's fallen overboard, unless we want them to. Okay, what else you got? I don't know.

You tell me. What do you got? I see what I'm here. Wait, I have a question. All right. Yeah, let me ask that. I think I see this question you're about to ask me. All right.

You ever seen those movies where they are, it's about like drug lords and shit. And you find, and you see just like a normal guy in a boat off the coast of Florida. And he finds like a brick of cocaine. Yeah. Like if you're like seeing that like premise. My question to you is if you, because I'm reading this book, have you seen the movie No Country for Old Men? No. So it's like a movie.

I know about. I've heard of it. You know what it is. That name to me sounds so boring that I will never click on that. No, it's not a boring. one at all. It's like a thriller. But I'm reading the book and basically the premise is this guy comes across a drug deal gone bad. Everyone's dead at the scene. And there's two and a half million dollars as well as a truck full of cocaine. He takes a two million dollars. The drug guys

look for him and that's the book. And my question is, if I came across that cocaine, what would I do? And what would you do if you came across like, I have no idea how cocaine is measured. But like, that movie scene where you come across like a break. Yeah, or many bricks, I guess. What do you do with it? Take a picture, put it on Instagram, be like, oh, my God, get the social clout and get the hell out of there. I am not picking up the cocaine. I'm not becoming a drug dealer.

I'm not going to figure out how to flip this. You could also replace that with like, oh, I find a, you know, a large supply of copper wires, which have a decent market value. I don't know. I've actually been down this path before once. I think I talked about this on the pod where we met a guy who had this giant, comic book card collection. Yes. And we had this opportunity to buy it for like probably like 10 cents on the dollar of what it was like what the individual like some of all the parts would have been.

But we had to like figure out like what the hell to do. It's like here's a warehouse. You now have the cost of this warehouse. And then you have all this stuff. And none of it's graded and none of it's like categorized. None of it's inventoried. It's like you know, you got to go do that like, you know, American Pickers style like junkyard flip type thing for this stuff.

And when I kind of like, I got excited at first because it was like, it would have been a like multi-million dollar flip if we had done it. How did that end? It ended with me realizing this is not worth the time and energy to go do this. Like this is so much energy. So the story was basically you came across a guy who owned a warehouse and you said it had really old guy, really old guy who was like finally ready to like sell his thing he'd been collecting for 30 years.

Like tens of millions of like baseball cards or something? Yeah. Like he had millions of cards, most of which are useless. But for sure, some of it is valuable. And like the question is like, and you had to buy the whole lot. You had to buy the whole like thing. What did he do with it? Deal with it.

I think he did. Nobody bought it because again, nobody wants this headache. And like even the discount, like I was like, okay, let's say this is discounted, you know, based on our estimates, this thing's discounted like 90%. Even at a 90% discount, the like mental overhead, the literal overhead. And like some people out there are like, dude, I would have done it. And like, you should go do it. If you have no better options, you should go do this.

But for me, I was like, wow, this is a lot of work. So I would not, I wouldn't do it in the legal case, let alone the illegal case of figuring out how to flip these bricks of cocaine is kind of my answer. What's your answer to that? It depends what stage of life I'm in. All right. So let's take it by decade. You're 20.

I'm 20. And like one of these bricks, if could they be worth like $2 million? Let's say the whole thing is worth, you know, $6 million if you, if you, you know, sold it all at like street value. So let's start at the end of you having all this cash. Let's say you have, as you know, we do, we do move straight to the end. I'm moving straight to the end. Assuming that I had $6 million in cash, I wouldn't even know what to do with that.

If you buy a, if you buy a, if you buy property with $6 million in cash, can you even do that? Are you even allowed to do that? I mean, where would you keep that money? Yeah, I don't know what you would do. You'd have to like figure out how to like launder it basically to like legitimately own it. or you'd have to figure out a way to like do some, you know, off, off over the counter transaction of like gold bars or something else. Or do you just live like a cash life forever?

Yeah, you go under the mattress. You just pay for everything with tens of twenties. This is Breaking Bad, right? This is the plot of Breaking Bad basically. So what would I do if, all right, if I was 20 and I found it, I don't even think I would, I don't even know what I would do. I would not be maybe when I'm, I was 20, maybe I wouldn't be opposed to trying something, but I literally would have no idea

where to start. Where would you even start? I don't know people who do, I don't even know. I don't know people who do cocaine. I don't hang out with anyone. But you're in the moment. You have to make a split decision. In the heat of the moment, are you going to have bet? I would have to call the cops. I think I would call the police. I wouldn't know what to do. I wouldn't even know how to execute this. Yeah. Okay. So that's one. If you're not going to do in your 20s, you're not going to do it in your 30s. I don't think it matters the stage of life you're in. there is a couple other, you know, methods here, right? So like, let's say you're in this, what was the old white country for old men or something

like that? Like, you know, basically the guy finds the briefcase. If I find that briefcase, I'm taking 15% of the cash out. I'm leaving the rest there. Because who's really going to chase me down for the 15%. So I think I get like, you know, 80%, you know, I get like some of the award, none of the work. That is the easiest. So I did the math.

So the book was set in 1979. and it was $2.5 million, which is the equivalent of like $8 million today. So finding $8 million today, and this is set in El Paso, Texas, and the guy lives in a trailer, like a mobile home. So $7 million, might as well be $700 million. It's just a world-changing thing. If I'm that guy, like, that's easy. You just find it, you get the car, and you just never go back home.

And you're just gone. Yeah, but what am I going to do? Sleep, you know, with one eye open every night, wondering what's going to happen. If I see that $2 million, I'm taking $247,000 out. No way. They're never going to, they're not even understand why $247,000, we're 247,000 short. And I'm living a happy, calm lifestyle just as my life was, but with an extra $247,000. That's my move.

That's so funny. I don't think I could take 15%. I would, yeah, I would definitely take the whole thing. I was thinking about this the other day. This came up, I watched Survivor. Yeah, I'm like still watching, you know, season 48 of whatever Survivor. That's going on. and shout out to the Survivor casting directors.

I'm getting in shape so that I can go on Survivor soon. But they have this new twist where they have this thing you find. Normally it's like Survivor, you go out in the wild, and they have this little prize called the Immunity Idol. If you find this thing, you're safe from the vote. You won't get voted out this week. So people always want that thing. And when they find it, it's this joyous moment.

They unscroll the scroll, and they're like, yes, I found the thing. But they added a twist this time, which it says on the top of the scroll, it says, beware. Like, this is called a beware advantage. Like, you know, there could be something good. This comes with power, but also, you know, some drawbacks. And they say, you could just put this down right now and you can go on with the game as it is. Or if you open this, you have to, you know, you get the power, but you get the disadvantage as well.

You get the advantage and disadvantage. 100% of the time, they open up the scroll. And I'm just thinking there, I'm like, you know, the game theory here is that this is going to put me in a sticky spot. They're not giving me something that's going to give me like, it's mostly great with a tiny. downside. It's going to be like potentially great later with a downside today. Right. Like they find the game, that's how I'm organizing this game. But everybody picks it up and everybody opens it. And I thought, what are the things in life that are like this? Which is like you pick it up. You know you shouldn't do this. You know this has like drawbacks, but you can't resist. You just do it

anyways because, you know, yellow. And like I started thinking about like what that is in real life. Right. Like there's that with food. Like most junk food is that way. You know, pleasure now, pain later. you know, but what are the other areas of life? Like, you know, what is the career version of this? This is like that you got that really great job. But like now, you know, you were thinking about maybe you wanted to start your own business or do your own thing. But then you get this like, you know, job at McKinsey and you're tempted to take it because it has the prestige and it has the money. But it also comes with the sticky trap of like, this is for sure going to set you on a path for multiple years in a direction that you don't think you want to be your end goal, but you do it anyways.

And so I'm now looking out for these, what I'm calling the beware, the beware advantages of life. The big takeaway here, though, is with you wanting to go on Survivor. So let me tell you about something. So there's this podcast called Dead Eyes. Do you know what Dead Eyes is? No, never heard of it. All right. So years ago, Tom Hanks was the producer of Band of Brothers.

You know, it was like a TV show on HBO about World War II. And there was this one comedian who was like an extra. of one of the guys who was shooting or something. And Tom Hanks, like, looked at him and then whispered in the producer or whispered in his assistant's ear and said, like, hey, hey, man, you got to go. Tom Hanks apparently said that he had, quote, dead eyes and he wanted him off the set. Like, he just didn't like him as an extra. Something that probably happens all the time.

He just thought. And so. Just the flex. Yeah. It wasn't working out. And so this guy created a podcast called Dead Eyes. And the whole podcast was questioning why he got kicked off like, Banda brothers.

That same guy. Yes. And so the whole podcast, the whole premise is like he's interviewing people on Banda Brothers like asking like why do you think I got kicked off? Like what? Like let's talk through this. Dude, how did you find this? Sounds like the most obscure of the obscure podcast.

Well, eventually Tom Hanks goes on it. Oh my God. That's amazing. And he lands Tom Hanks and he comes on as a guest and he explains like what was happening from his perspective. And what we need to do with. you. Wait, hold on.

What was the explanation? What did he say? He was just like, I don't remember. Yeah, he was like, I don't. Like, I'm sorry. It wasn't, let me see. He's like, this is haunted you for 24 years.

Yeah, he was like this. I guess it just wasn't even like a, he didn't really think about it, I believe. And apparently he said that like, maybe even it was like a mistake. Like maybe he said the wrong thing to the wrong person. But like, it was just, it just dismissed him.

It wasn't even like an issue in his life. And this guy has this whole podcast called Dead Eyes. You've not heard of this? It's hilarious. No, that's hilarious. What were you going to tie that in? You said, I should do something? Well, so with you wanting to be on Survivor,

we need to, like, have you go through the whole process and you're likely going to get turned down at the audition. But we've got to, like, do like a whole series of episodes of you going through this process of getting on Survivor and documenting it and getting all. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. And we like, what you need to do is comment, get the person who does casting for Survivor and act like you want them to come on as a guest.

And we could do it just to like humor them. But like on air, be like, so like, can Sean audition? Can I get it? Yeah. By the way, I have auditioned before already. So I've been rejected once. So I already got that under my belt. Well, no, we got to have them on air.

And we'll do it like funny. Like, you know, I think I said this earlier, like, wouldn't it be funny if we just started testing right now? Like, wouldn't that be hilarious? Like, that's got to be... So what if I was on? Yeah, like, would it be hilarious? Like, can you imagine if I came on the survivor? And if I...

Like, what would happen? Yeah. Like, is that allowed? Yeah, wouldn't it be funny? Dude, though, what is the exact line, though? Wouldn't it be funny if we, like, what would happen? We just kissed right now? Wouldn't be funny if we kissed?

That's so funny to me, dude. That tickles my funny mode at the, like, deepest, deepest. deepest level. I don't know why. It's so funny. There's that. There's that one. And then there's the other one that

that gets me so bad is like, you've heard, have you heard this joke where it's like, and then everybody started clapping? No. Okay, so basically this is like a recurring joke that comes in when like, if you tell a story,

yeah, like, it's like when somebody tells a story and by the end of the story, you're like, you're sort of like, wait, what was the point of the story? And then you realize the point of the story was them saying, them just saying how cool they were in a way that was like not even, like, the story's kind of exaggerated or not really believe it. It's like, yeah, we're at the restaurant and

then this guy was choking and then like, but like nobody heard him. But I just saw it. I was on my way to the bathroom and I just kind of like, you know, whatever, just did the hymlich, but I'd only ever watched a video and like, you're like, what is this story? Where is this going? Why are you telling me this? And then and then you basically like, it's an awkward silence at the end of that story. And they're like, and then they basically, they realized the story didn't do it. And so they have to one up it and just say then everybody started clapping. And so it's this genre of stories. And then everybody started clapping stories.

My version. Those also cracked me up. When I see someone get stuck in a story like that, I'm like, oh, yes, it's happening. They got themselves trapped in a, and then everybody started clapping story. And they're about to start exaggerating because the story itself didn't hit. And now they're stuck. My version of that is, and then I found $5. Yeah, exactly.

Dude, okay, so I have a crazy story like this. Somebody tweeted this at us. They loved your Orlando Bloom story, by the way. Oh, that's, I mean, that's the one where I didn't want to get stuck in that spot. But that's all true. So somebody tweeted at this at us and they go, this seems like it's up your alley. And that's what do you know you're winning when somebody send you something really weird? And they say, I think this is up your alley.

And it's 100% up my alley. My home adry, my PO boxes in this alley. And so he sent me this post. like a forum post and he goes, what I'm doing is insane. So here's what it says. It goes, I have a bot running 24-7 that is buying and selling for zero target profit just to, just to waste the IRS's manpower and money.

I print and send to the IRS all the documentation about every one of these trades in paper form so that they can't automate it or like, you know, just like get through my report in an easy way. He goes, I will sometimes mix blank pages, double print, ghost print, use black and white. I will number the pages and put them in out of order. I will have people randomly scribbling drawings of digs

into the pages. I will send it as a whole palette of paper trades. I even to send this palette, I have to hire a guy with a forklift just to send it. And I want it to be in a palette so that is maximal, maximum trouble some for them.

And then it says like, you know, is this real? Yeah, I don't know if it's real. This is like some forum post. He goes, this cost me thousands of dollars every year. And I make sure to send them an invoice so that they know that I'm paying real money on top of the palette that I've sent them. So whoever's in charge of this knows that I'm wasting the equivalence of two months of their wage on this asinine behavior on top of wasting their time.

And I was just like, this needs to go to petty court. It's like, who are you? Why are you so troubled? And like, okay, you know, if you just wasted a little bit of your own time, that's offensive to me. But if you waste all of your time and money, at this point, it turns a to respect from my point of view. And like, I don't know what your mission is. I don't even really understand it. But I respect the mission-drivenness of this, like, of this initiative. There's no gain.

It's just mutually assured destruction on both parties. It's like, have you seen in South Park where Cartman is dressed up like Steve Jobs at the, at the keynote, and he's walking around? And he goes, instead of saying thank you, he just says, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. and the whole presentation is ways that they're wasting money. And he's sitting around walking around the stage and he goes, but we didn't just stop there.

You see, we moved the couch from the left part of the room to the right part of the room. And the whole presentation is just how they just reorganized the furniture in his office that quarter. That was all they did with all their money. And this is a good example of that.