My First Million - Rich People's Tax Credit Scheme, Harvard's Healthy Finances & My9

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

Episode 447: Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about the rich people tax credit scheme, Andrew Wilkinson's Tiny goes public, Harvard is a multi-billion dollar tax-free revenue, and Shaan's latest business idea - My9. Click here to sign up for our event in Austin, TX on Saturday April 29th: mfmpod.com/atx Want to see more MFM? Subscribe to the MFM YouTube channel here. Check Out Sam's Stuff: * Hampton * Ideation Bootcamp * Copy That Check Out Shaan's Stuff: * Power Writing Course * Daily Newsletter ----- Links: *We Work Remotely *Higher Ground * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. ------ Show Notes: (01:22) - Rich People Tax Credit Scheme (11:45) - Ramit Sethi debrief (15:15) - Martin Shkreli debrief (20:32) - Deep Dive on Andrew Wilkinson's Tiny Going Public (36:50) - Harvard's revenue (47:45) - My9 ------ Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

You put down, let's say, 150K,000, you put down 150K of cash and you get a million dollar deduction. Oh, my gosh. So let's say in California, a million dollar deduction is saving you $400,000 of taxes. All right. We're live. What's going on? Can I tell you about a cool, rich people tax credit scheme I discovered? Yep.

So actually, a mutual friend of ours is the one who put me on to this, but I won't say his name because, you know, never talk about another man's taxes. So when we sold the milk road, I was like, oh, man, how do you reduce taxes in a situation like this? Is there anything I could do? And I think we sold in October. So it was like, you know, you get this windfall of profits in October. Is there anything between October and December I could do to lower taxes? And I looked at it in what are different options? Like, what are the legal, clear, buy the book options that I could do?

And when most people try to generate large deductions or write-offs, they typically think of what? A car. Even bigger, right? Let's say you need millions of dollars of depreciation. Real estate. You'll go for real estate. So real estate's typically the one, but your boy's lazy, and your boy doesn't like to go and own things and have to, like, you know, manage properties or anything like that. you can always put your money with somebody else and try to try to do it that way.

But this is pretty interesting. But you still got to research all of them. And yeah, it's still a little bit of a pain. Exactly. And you have to buy size. So like how do you get, you know, let's say you buy a typical property. You know, you're only going to be able to write off like a portion of it, right? So you'll get the sort of the depreciation that you can get the bonus or accelerated depreciation.

If you maybe do cost sag or something, you'll get 20 or 30 percent of the value of the property to write off. But let's say you needed, I don't know, pick a, a number, right? Let's say you needed a $10 million, let's say you had $10 million of taxable income, you would need to buy like a $30 million property or so just to be even close to deducting enough to make it significant. That's a big deal, especially for somebody who's not in real estate. So I was like, okay, don't want to do that. And our friend put me on to this thing. He's like, you know, there's this other form of depreciation in the form of financing movies. Have you heard about this? No, but tell me about this.

Okay, so here's, by the way, I This sounds like a horrible idea. No, it's a great idea, I think. I think it's a great idea. So basically, there's this thing called film production tax credits, and what ends up happening is the following. Movie needs to get made.

Let's just use some numbers. And by the way, I'm not an expert at this, but I get the broadstroke. So forgive me if I get some of the ratios and percentages. Instead of bro-science, this is bro-tax. Yeah, exactly. right numbers numbers and words aren't my thing

I'm a body language guy so let's just pretend you have a filmmaker wants to make a movie for a million dollars so in order to make a film for a million dollars they need to raise that money from somewhere and what happened was there was always these there was always these

kind of depreciation incentives but when Obama came into power he added to them so what Obama did was he changes the rules I believe during his time to say you can write off 100% of a film's cost before they even make the film, before the money spent on that film,

just on the budget. So let's say it's a million-dollar movie. If you buy that movie, you can write off a million dollars right then and there. You don't have to wait for the whole thing to be shot. Before you had to wait for certain days of production and order to write off those costs, now you can just write it off from day one as an incentive

to get people to fund more movies and fund more art and culture and this sort of thing. Because movies aren't really the best money makers. So you needed a little bit of an additional incentive if we want wealthy people to do this. So now what happens? You put down, let's say, 150K,000, you put down $150K of cash and you get a million dollar deduction.

Oh, my God. So let's say in California, a million dollar deduction is saving you $400,000 of taxes. So already you see the spread, right? I put $150K in. I save $400K in my taxes. Now it gets better. So where does the rest of the money come from?

So you need the other other $850k in order to finance the movie. You can go to a bank, get a loan for that. So you can go get loans on it. You can also get basically rebates in the form of taxes. So I don't know if you know this, but like most movies are not made in Hollywood. Do you know where they're made? I think as of recently Georgia. Is that right?

Yeah, Georgia, Alabama, basically a bunch of states come and they say, hey, if you got a million dollar movie, we'll give you 30% of the films, we'll give you 30, up to 30% in tax credits. And so you get a, you basically, you don't need a million dollars to fund the movie. You're going to get $300,000 from the state in order to do it. Why does the state want it? Right? Because state wants jobs. State wants, if something's filmed there and it looks cool, that's, you know, tourism maybe. Let's say you filmed in New York and New York looks really glamorous. Now you get additional tourism appeal. You get jobs and you get culture or art in your community. And you get business coming there where otherwise, who's going to Georgia to do something cool,

right? Like, who's going to Alabama? I don't know, no shots fired at Georgia or Alabama, but kind of. But it's human. So basically that's, so that now you get funding on that side, which, by the way, you can just go sell those credits. You can just sell those credits for 90 cents on the dollar if you wanted, or you could use them to fund the movie. And so this collection of things is part of a system that wealthy people use in order to get

right off. So what happens is there are companies. that throughout the year are buying up rights to movies or scoping out rights to movies. And they're looking at it not in terms of like, how's the plot? How's the script? They're like, what's the budget? I need a $1 million budget. I need a $5.

I need a $15 because I need options available for my clients at the end of the year. So they basically hold options all these things until the very end of the year. And then they go to their clients. They're like, how much of a write-off do you need? Oh, you need $3 million? Cool. Here's a $10 million project. We're going to buy.

Right? We're going to put in this much cash. we're going to get that much of a write-off. We're going to finance the rest. And we can do this as a group of investors, not just one person. But you're forgetting the second part and the more important part, which is the movie needs to be made and make a profit. Not necessarily.

The movie needs to be made. Not necessarily needs to make a profit. So what happens? The movie starts to get made. Once it gets the funding, it's going to start getting made. And then they'll do things to help. But what you have to do is pay off the loan. So where am I going to, let's say in this example of a million dollars, where are we're going to

pay off this $850K from? Well, they'll get the tax credits for part. of it. They'll go sell the international rights before the movie's made or they'll go sell an option to Netflix and then they'll get some revenue in that way while the movie's being made. And they're using that to pay down this loan so that you get, you know, five years later when the movie's finally made, hopefully the movie's paid off. If it's not fully paid off, it's getting close and then you basically have the revenue from the movie once it happens. And so it doesn't even need to be this awesome, you know, 20% annual return because you got your tax benefits five

years ago. And so you just need to make sure it's going to pay off the load amount. Dude, this sounds like such a racket. Where is there like a... It's Hollywood, baby. It's Hollywood. Just because you say it that way doesn't mean that it's less of a racket, you know what I mean? Just going to say it's the world best cup of coffee. I mean it is. It ain't. Where, like, do you go to a website? You got a guy? You got a movie guy? I got a guy now. I haven't done it, by the way. So I should say, I didn't do this last year because I learned about it

like four days before the end of the year. And then I was like, what the hell is this? I was like, we need to make a movie, baby. I was like, oh, my God. I won't say his name, but let's just pronounce his name. Charlie.

I just got off the moment, Charlie. He's got a $10 million movie for me. All right. Hey, why are the funds? It was a little too rushed. But the more I looked into it, it is a legitimate thing.

It's completely by the book. You can go read, you know, section 26 of the tax code. You could do the bonus, appreciation of 100% of the film's cost in that time. I think the key part is there's a little, there's some nuance. Like, just like in real estate, you've got to be an active investor. So you have to be an active film investor in order to offset against your active income. So you have to like go to film festivals and do like 36 hours of film study online in order

to be qualified as active, whatever the rules are. I'm making up those exact numbers. But, you know, there obviously is a lot of nuance to these things. But just broad strokes, pretty interesting that rich people can get huge tax. write-offs financing movies. So I'm just looking at this. So you said Obama did this or he like accelerated it. He increased it so that you can depreciate 100%. So coincidentally, the Obama's now have a wonderful production company. They do. A beautiful home in Georgia. Yeah. No, they do. It's called Higher Ground Media. And they've made a handful of movies that I've noticed or that I've seen. But they, so if you go to higher groundmedia.com, they also have podcasts.

So they are the, so they have an audible deal. Michelle Obama did. It used to be with Spotify. Now it's with Amazon Audible. They have the sum of us. I don't know what that is. The big hit show, whatever. They have all these, oh, they have renegades, which is like this Barack one.

So does this work for podcasts? Is the question? What has that smell? Is that opportunity? A little self-dealing, I smell. Yeah. A little. Barack special as you call it.

Do they, does this work for, by the way, he did it right, man. Have you heard, you haven't, he haven't heard of Pete from Barack.

He, he says, he did this thing, he did an all right job. He didn't, whether you like him or loving, he either did great or he did fine. So he did all right job,

and then he bounced. You know what I'm saying? He did bounce. He's out. And so he's hanging out with Oprah and David Geffen on their yacht. So he did it right. But does this count for podcasts?

Do we have, Well, I don't know, my camera's on. You got video over there? That's a great point. People would call, I've seen in the YouTube comments, people consider us, you know, a film. A premium production. Preyium production. Exactly.

I think we did change the LLC name to premium productions. And you're in Texas. Texas is not far from Alabama. We can do a little road trip. Yeah, that's interesting. Hopefully this works for podcasts, but that's an interesting fine. I thought it was stupid and it's actually more interesting than I thought. thought.

How was your pod with Rameet? It was awesome. You want to do a recap? Yeah, I haven't listened to it. So what's, what was the best parts? He made fun of you a little bit. He took a, he took a jab, not at you. Well, because there was a podcast where I asked you if you could get 8% consistently,

but you can't invest in anything other than your own private business. Would you do it? And he was like, Sean was crazy. I was yelling at the, I was yelling at the screen, furious that he wouldn't accept that. But he didn't actually give you a hard time. That was it. He's very, he's very principled, which I actually like. I think you are the opposite.

I think you are one extreme. And I actually think I'm closer to you a little bit than I am to him, where he is just like, this is what I want. I'm going to do it. And I'm going to do nothing else. Like, he's laser focused on a couple things, which I admire. And then he, what is he focused on? He was like, I can make more money with my business.

I could have done a podcast. years ago, but I just wanted to wait until I felt it was the perfect right time. So he just calculated. You know, you and I like to just throw a little things out there and see what catches. He's not so much that. He also did a really good job. Have you ever heard him talk about the rich life? Yeah, I've heard him explain. It's kind of like he made a list of like what's the rich life to him and then sort of use that as his financial blueprint. Exactly. And he's got like a handful of things. Like he's like, I just wanted to have the best assistant because I want them to book things perfectly. So he's like, when I fly, I try to fly on a very specific type of airline with a very specific seat.

So I want a certain plane when I fly. I want a certain type of food ready for me when I arrive in my hotel room. And it was just very exact. And I love how exact he was. It sounded like a lot of work to set it up. So I found it intimidating. But like he knew exactly. I hate people who are that particular.

I hate people who are particular in general. I find it to be shilly spoiled and snobbish. You know, I have like sort of like you all. are what you admire. And I have the opposite of admiration for people that are extremely particular about how they want everything managed and taken care of in their life versus people who are like, look, I'm blessed. I'm going to roll with the punches. You don't have to cater to me. I'm going to make, you know, you could serve me food I'm allergic to and I'm going to find a way to have a party in the ER, right? Like, you know, that is more of the mindset that I admire is somebody who is what I

call unconditional, meaning their happiness or their mood is not contingent on anything. I find that to be an absolute superpower. And I say this because, not to hate on remit, I say this because I kind of only ever hear about the opposite, especially in this kind of like, you know, life hacking, productivity, porn, like kind of hustle culture type of thing where I think people get praised for being super meticulous, for being super organized, for planning out everything, for scoping it out, for working backwards, all that stuff. And I never hear about anybody who's praised for being like,

you know what, this guy's always at a good mood, regardless of what's happening. But to me, that's the superpower. Yeah, and I'm closer to you in that regard. Like recently I went to a place and I ordered a steak and it brought me a pizza that was pesto chicken. And I didn't, and I didn't tell like, yeah, I didn't even tell my wife was at halfway through like, didn't you order a steak?

I'm like, yeah, but it was here and whatever. And so I'm more like you. but I respect that he knows what he wants and he lives that way. So I respect that. And then Martin Screlly, do you want to talk about him really quick? Yeah, we never got to debrief that.

So fun pa. I got a lot of shit. Did you get shit? I got a ton of plaque that we had them on. From where? Dude, just online and friends were messaged me, they're like, why would you give this guy a platform?

And I don't think they even listened to the episode because my response to why would you give this person a platform? It's twofold. It's number one. I'm like, well, did you watch, the documentary about him on Netflix. And if they say yes, then I say, well, then he has a platform. Did you criticize Netflix?

Do you know, you watched it? Did you cancel Netflix? Yeah, like you watched Netflix. Do you watch the news about him? Because you, he has the platform. And second, I'm like, how'd you like that Ted Bundy docuseries? Pretty good, huh? Yeah, did you watch that?

Did you watch that? Because that's the same thing. And then second, I'm like, well, we actually did challenge him quite a bit. I think I explicitly said, why did you act like an idiot? And why are you such an asshole when you shouldn't, didn't have to be an asshole? Like, we had a very productive conversation. I think there's a fair criticism,

which is he has an explanation about like, you know, why, how the health care system works, blah, blah, blah. And we're not well versed enough about the health care system to know where to push back. Because like, let's say, I don't know if he told us anything that was incorrect or sort of slight of handy.

But if he did, there's no way I would have known because that's not my area of expertise, right? Like, you know, it's like, but why's that wrong? I don't know if that's wrong. I'm saying that would be a fair criticism. Let's say you did know. And then somebody comes on to hear, they say something.

That's either not true or sort of misdirection or besides the point or not really how things work. And the host don't push back on it. It could be very frustrating if you do know. And so I'd say that's a if that's what happened, that would be, I would say, a fair criticism. On the other hand, I thought the most interesting thing he talked about was just sort of like, he's like, I could be the Pfizer CEO corporate speak. Don't toe outside the line. Don't give the media anything to get mad about. Just quietly make your millions.

Just do whatever you're going to do, right? Raise prices. You know, whatever it is that you're going to do. It's not like most pharmaceutical companies are seen as like, you know, angels. But they don't get the same level of flak because he was very loudmouthed. He was very vocal and he poked the bear constantly. And what I liked was this moment in the thing where I was like, did you're not dumb. So like, you probably knew what you should say or you had.

a person on your PR team tell you at some point, hey, when you go to Congress and they're asking you questions, don't be doodling, you know, like a dog on your piece of paper and smugging, you know, having a... Don't smile. Don't have a smug look on your face. Like, he knew what to do, but he lives that troll life, baby. He's like, I don't want to be that.

I don't want a world where everybody who's successful has to be this robot. And I'm going to be me and I'm going to have fun with it. And I'm going to call BS where I see BS. I'm going to fight with people who don't know what they're talking about. And I got to say, that is one part that I really do admire about him. And I think somebody said this to me after the episode. They go, you know, you guys had Billy McFarland from the fire festival on. And he seemed like a dumb, like a dumb cheat.

They go, Martin seemed like the opposite. He seemed like a genius cheat, which was basically like, you know, Billy came back. He's like, next thing I'm doing, another fire festival. or like, actually, and he's doing it. He's doing it. What he had said to us on air was, I'm going to do this thing where you could micro,

so people are going to go to this island and then you could vote with micropayments to get them to like snorkel with sharks and like, we're going to jump up the water. We're going to jump up the water if people donate. And I was like, wow, that's your comeback. That's a dumb idea. But with Martin, I would say like,

you know, I think you could question whatever, his ethics or if he's, you know, gone straight after whatever, you know, what he did to go to jail. But I think it's hard to deny that the guy's very intelligent and has a lot of interesting things to say. And, you know, frankly, you can learn a lot from somebody who's highly intelligent has interesting things to say. Yeah, I, you know, what I was telling people, I'm like, I can like how Michael Jackson dances and I can learn how to moonwalk from him, but also not like everything that he did. You know what I'm saying? So I can like both.

those things. How's your moonwalk? You know, it's a, it's a three out of ten, I'd say. But I also, there's one criticism that we're starting to get now that we're a little bit bigger that I've been thinking about, which is they're like, you have a responsibility to do X, Y, and Z. And my gut reaction is like, F you, I don't have a responsibility. I'm doing whatever the hell I want. But then I'm like, it is journalistically a bit. And that's like a really weird thing to like kind of approach, particularly when no one got in. We didn't get into this for that reason.

Like we didn't want to pursue truth. We just wanted to have fun. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think that's, I mean, to be perfectly clear, we are not journalists.

This is not journalism. We are not reporting anything. This is me and Sam shooting the shit, talking about business and interesting things we see. And then when we meet interesting people, we have them on the podcast, we have a conversation with them. And sometimes we like what they say,

and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we buy what they're selling. Sometimes we don't. sometimes we defend people because 95% of people hate them. But that doesn't mean we think that they're perfect. So, you know, that's my stance on it. All right, let's move on to something else. You tweeted out that you had nothing to say today, which is always great to hear.

I found a few things last minute, though. Did you like my, does you like my meme? Yeah, the Jesus meme. I thought it was wonderful. It was, there's like this famous, is it Catholic? I don't know, where it's like. Prince in the sand is the name of the same. story. Yeah. Whenever, you know, we saw two footprints on the beach or two sets of footprints. And then all

a sudden, that's the point. Well, then if it's, no, it's, then all of a sudden I didn't see the second footprint. What happened? And it was like, that's when I was carrying you, son. No, it was good. It's like, where were you and I needed to do the most? I were there only one footprints. All right. So, do you want to go first? You want me to go? I'll go first really quick. This is something that I think both of us are interested in, but I have a feeling you didn't, uh, you didn't care enough to look into this because it was like a shit ton of reading but tiny our friend andrew wilkinson he took his company public it's officially public i think the friday i don't know what it is today it was 750 million i think canada which is 560 million u sd somewhere between one and a billion yeah so hundreds of

millions of dollars and you know whenever you go public you got to release a huge report and it's 300 pages and i read through a lot of it and i found a bunch of interesting stuff you want to you want me to tell you some of the interesting things. All right. So the foundation for, so Andrew Wilkinson's our friend. He owns this thing called Tiny, Tiny owns, either outright owns or partially owns, something like 10 to 30 things, 30 different businesses. The whole thing started with MetaLab.

Meta Lab was an agency that he created by himself in 2008, and he basically made websites. It was nothing fancy at first. He made websites for Silicon Valley companies, but that's a little bit glamorizing. it because it was like someone paid him like $20,000 to make like a fairly straightforward simple website. Then he just kept going and kept going and kept going. Well, it's listed in his, I actually don't know what this document's called. In America, I think it's called 10Q or just whenever they file for to go public. This company's in the, I think Vancouver stock exchange. I don't know what it's called there. But it's listed as digital services revenue. In 2021, it did

$62.8 million. And that's interesting because it actually has been growing not crazy fast. So it's been growing something like 23% a year or for the last handful of years. We can only see a couple years here. But it does a 45% or 40% margin. So for every $100 they make, their net income is something like $40, $40, which is crazy. Now, if you start in 2008 and you only grow 20% a year, you actually get to significantly hired than where he's at now.

So there was years where it was lumpy, where it didn't grow or grew a lot and then it got smaller, but not significant of a business for something that's been around for, what's this now, 15 years. And this has been the foundation of everything. He has the CEO of that company and that CEO is paid $1.1 million, which is a good deal, I think, for everyone. So the CEO gets to run an established company that's working and they get paid a million dollars.

So here's something that's really interesting. If you scroll down on this document, they have a list of a bunch of the dividends paid since 2021. And if you add them all up, it's something like $15 million that he's took out of the business. They took out a bunch more dividends because they actually took down, I think, something like $100 million in debt. So he had a debt facility in order to grow the company as opposed to equity, which is awesome because you just take a loan. And if that works, it's significantly cheaper than equity. If it doesn't work, that's not good. You owe a bunch of money.

But he did it and it worked out. But as he's been growing, he took money like 15-ish million, according to these documents, out. Additionally, they had a company called Mealtime, which is like a meal prepping software that he sold for $25 million. So he had a, and they gained, they profited $13 million off that. So collectively, he's been making tens of millions of dollars along the way. Super fascinating while this business has been grown.

Do you remember when we were having the lunch? with him. We're going to have to bleep out this number. But you asked him some question. You're like, you know, at what number did life sort of change for you? What numbers mattered in your kind of climb? And then he says, he's like, yeah, that's when that's when, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you go, you go, okay, so that's a net worth.

And he goes, no, per year. Yeah. And you go, what? We were both like, wait. And then he skipped over. He told another story. He's like, yeah, yeah. So like, you know, every year.

We were like, what is that actual fuck this guy talking about? You were making that much? He's like, yeah. And now we see that it's all like it's all on paperwork. And by the way, everything we're saying, this is strictly from the document. So there's nothing else that we know. But yeah, like he kind of killed it there. And then one last interesting thing is they own this thing.

It's the company called Tiny Boards. It's really just we work remotely.com. And it makes, I think it's like $6 million a year, roughly. So it grew during 2020 to 21. It grew from like $3 million to $6 million. Then it went back down to like $3 or $4 million. But I looked it up on LinkedIn. I'm pretty sure there's like three people.

Yeah. Very fascinating. And they bought that from 37 signals from Jason Freed and DHS. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, you know, so I invested in this right before. went public, so privately, and when I had gone into the kind of the data room, I was looking around and I was like, okay, so it seems like really there's kind of like two interesting observations.

One is he creates these like what they call platforms, which is basically means you're going to buy a bunch of the same type of company. So he has an agency platform. Meta Lab is the big one, but I think they have like seven or eight other agencies. They're just a lot smaller. There's like a web flow agency. There's a interface agency. There's a whatever agency.

Yeah. So then there's job boards. They own a couple of job boards. Then there's creative tools, which is like they own dribbled and dribble block creative market and grew that way. And then they have, whatever, they have a couple of other. Then they have like this long tail of random things. Like they own be funky, the photo editing app. They own meal time.

They own some random things. I would say a couple of things really stood out to me when I looked at it. I was like, okay, so if you look at where the bulk of the revenue and EBITA comes from, it's two companies. So yes, he's got a portfolio of 30 companies, but it's MetaLab and it's dribble that are carrying the thing on its back. I guess the other one would be WeCommerce, which had split and gone public,

which was a roll-up of Shopify apps. But that one had done pretty well too. And that one's at $25 million in revenue, I think. It was like something like $10 million. If you just look at the EBIT of numbers, right? I was like, and I'm not quoting this off. I'm not looking at the sheet, but like just ballpark. I believe that Wee Commerce ballpark was at about $10 million in EBIT when it went public.

I remember you saying that on the pot. That's what I'm getting that from. The second one is, you know, Meta Lab, which you just talked about, you know, let's say, 50, 60 million in revenue, 45% margins, so roughly 30 billion in EBITA. And then, which is just a juggernaut. And then you have Dribble. And Dribble does what? Does it have it broken out here? So in 2000, yeah, in 2021, so here's the numbers for 2021.

Digital Services Revenue, which is considered agencies, that was 63 million. Creative Platform revenue, which I think is only dribble or it's dribble plus a small thing. In 2020, it did $23 million. In 2021, it did $34 million. And then they have other, which is all this small stuff combined, which was about 14. So just those first two, digital services, which is almost all MetaLab, you know, the rest might add up to less than 20% of that. So if you just add up 60 plus 30 plus 13, right, this is roughly a little over $100 million. And 110 of that comes from.

from Meta Lab and dribble. And the EBITDA on that, I don't know, actually, people are going to laugh at me. I don't know what adjusted EBITA means versus just normal EBITA. But the normal EBITA, which is earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, that was $50 million on that revenue. Yeah. And you know what I think is remarkable?

The amount of equity that they put in to create this. So now this thing is valued at, let's call it, $800 million right now, $811 million market cap right now. which is Canadian. I didn't realize it's a 75% decrease from USG. Sure. So let's say. So that comes up to be a little less than 600.

600 basically. So 600 million dollar market cap company. And I believe, he can confirm or deny this, but I believe less than $10 million of total equity was put in. So how much cash did it take to start this business? And most businesses don't take a ton of cash. But this is,

This is an acquisition-based company. So, like, you know, they were acquiring companies. And so I think less than 10 million of seed capital was put in. I could be wrong. And the seed capital came from the profits of the agency. So in reality, it's like he started this as an 18-year-old or 19-year-old. He said he was working as a barista. In the papers, it has the stories.

Like, I was working as a coffee shop person. And then I started doing this on the side, and it just, we just kept going. And so the takeaway here is like, simple shit, it's, it's, it's, hard, but it's simple, but for since 2007 or something like that. Amazing. Honestly, it's amazing. And congrats to our buddy Andrew for going public. That's a big deal.

You know, that's a decade plus of hard work, 15 years plus of hard work to get there. So, you know, kind of amazing for him. I love that. Any other takeaways you have? No, those are the main ones. You know, I think, you know, one other thing that Chris, his business partner, I told me at dinner, it was, I think I might have already shared this in the pod, but he said when he got hired, and he met Chris at a bank.

Chris was a banker, literally like a branch. Like a branch. Yeah, like at a branch. And he met Chris, and they hit it off about cars. They were talking about cars because Andrew had rolled up at a cool looking car and Chris was into it or whatever. So they hit it off. They end up talking for a little while. He's like, what's your store?

What are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm starting to get my like CPA license. Like I want to be a finance person or accountant or whatever. and Andrew's like, awesome. I need help. My business meta lab is just getting off the ground. It's working pretty well, but we're super disorganized. Come work with me.

And Chris takes the leap of faith, goes to work with him. He says that on day one, he's like, I showed up at the office, and there's nobody there. Like, Andrew's not there. Nobody's answering the door. And then Andrew pulls up in his Uber, whatever, his car. I guess there's no Uber back then, but pulls up in a car taxi, hops out, and he's like, opens the trunk, takes out this giant box, full of paper. He's like, here, here's all of our like numbers, fat angels. Like, this is where it's at. You know, make sense of this and help us get organized. It hands him this huge box. He's like,

oh, by the way, I got to go. So I'm not going to be able to train you right now. And there's no room in the office for you. So I talked to my neighbor. They have like a basement. You can sit in the desk in there. And he's like, just knock on the door and tell him you're the guy. And then they'll let you into the basement desk or something. So he tells the story how he started or whatever, gets it organized. As they're looking at it, they're like, all right,

you have a very profitable agency. What do we do with these profits? We're just going to accrue them. That doesn't seem very good. And they're like, well, what do other agencies do? And they're like,

they looked around. I see in other agencies like, all of a sudden, there's a giant ball pit in the office. There's a basketball court. They're flying, you know, fancy everywhere.

They're hosting, you know, just basically spending money on like, like status stuff or like appearances. And he's like, we shouldn't do that. That doesn't seem to have any ROI, right? Like adding the ball pit to the office doesn't, yeah, it makes it more fun. But like, I don't think that's the best use of money. What if we just thought of ourselves like a really profitable law firm? And like, you know, what if we were a boring business? What would we do with this money? Well, we were just going to find a place to reinvest this. What if we take this business that's okay. Agencies aren't the best business, but we use it to buy better businesses. And then that was kind of like the conversation that they had. And that's when they started going out and acquiring other businesses using the profits from Medallel. But there's two or there's one part of that story that you're missing. And this is because it's probably not fun for them to tell.

But they will tell it because they blog about it, which is they actually started other things. So they did the same things that we make fun of and that we've done as well. They started a to-do list. It was called Flow. And he said he spent like four or five hundred thousand dollars or maybe even close to a million, a lot of money of the profits. And they created this thing, which was basically like Asana, but different. And he goes, Asana crushed us because they spent way more money.

And then they started, I think, one or two other things. I think another thing called ballpark. So they actually started things right away, and it failed. And then they go, yeah, let's just buy them. And that's what they did. And they still start things, like Supercast or he's got a bunch of different ideas that he started since. But if you just look at them in the grand scheme of things, it's almost like a big company, right? It's like they have the innovator's dilemma.

It's like, this business is at $1 million in revenue in nine months. It's like, cool. Who cares? That's 1%. It didn't move the needle this year. We probably took a lot of creative energy and recruiting and promoting to get to that level. So you have a tough thing where you enjoy starting new things. So you want to do it.

You keep having new ideas, but it's hard for those new things to really break out and make a difference. And most new things generally will fail or not go exactly to plan either. So it's a tough, tough balance, I think, to have. And I know what they paid for dribble. And do you think, I think you know too, but we can't say it. Do you think that you can buy companies like this? Like, is this one of those things like, you know, or am I just being a nub here where people say, oh, you can't start a newsletter now.

There's too many newsletters. I'm like, no, that's not true. But what do you think about the competition now to buy companies versus 10 years ago? Yeah, certainly more, but there's also more supply, right? Like the number of like interesting, you know, interesting internet companies in 2007 versus is 2023 is going to be, obviously, like, manyfold more because the internet has just become so dominant. There's so many businesses that are successful, so many playbooks of how to build a good SaaS

business or a good marketplace or whatever. Having said that, it's probably the type of business where you make one good decision, one good deal a year or two good deals a year. And that was a great year. And I think that speed is just very hard for most entrepreneurial people to go at. Right. Well, yeah, I agree with what you said. This is pretty inspiring and awesome.

So that's the lowdown on Tiny. Good stuff. Can we talk about, I see you have Harvard's revenue on here. I have an interesting story about Harvard's revenues. I want to hear your take. I was doing some Friday night research and got to thinking, how much money's Harvard making? I'd like to tell you some things about Harvard.

So Harvard is this thing that if you really like Zoom, Now, you're like an alien, and you're looking down at Harvard, and you're like, what is that thing in the map? Yeah, not be you, the other one. What's over there in Boston? What you would see is basically some combination of a church, a hedge fund, and a luxury daycare. And I'd like to tell you about each of those components and how Harvard is basically this multi-billion dollar tax-free juggernaut. All right. There's a lot of taxes in this episode.

Yeah. All right. So. Buckle up. Okay, so how is it a church? Well, universities are tax exempt, so they don't pay taxes. They don't pay it on donations. They don't pay it on tuition, Roman board, or even capital gains from their hedge fund,

which is the second part. So they have an endowment that's about $50 billion that they invest across a wide portfolio. I'll tell you their portfolio in a second. So they got a $50 billion hedge fund. They have their tax exempt on the gains from the hedge fund, plus all the revenue from their students, well, I should say revenue from their luxury daycare because parents will pay, you know, $50, $70,000 a year to send their child to this place for four years. And so they take your kids off your hand for four years and they say they're going to come out in a better place.

And so here's some of the numbers around this this mashup juggernaut. Last year, $5.8 billion in total revenue. Two billion of that comes from the profits of their endowment, hell of a year for them. Actually, this wasn't last year. This was, I think, 2021. So two years ago. So 5.8 billion in total revenue, $2 billion from their endowment,

$1.2 billion from education. So what that means is 80% of the revenue is coming from not education. That's the other way to look at that. So where does the rest come from? So they have the endowment. You have a billion dollars of grants, so the government funding research

for their professors, 500 million of donations, and $300 million from something you'll know pretty well, which is their publishing arm. I can tell you all about that. their in-house media company. So a couple observations here. The school earns more revenue than both Twitter and Snapchat.

Twitter's at $5 billion. Snapchat's $4.6 billion. Harvard has more revenue than both of them. And it's been doing that since when was Harvard created in the... Harvard's like 100 plus years old, I think. And so it's been doing that forever, not forever, but for a very long time. Amazing business, right? The publishing arm makes $300 million just selling case studies to other business schools

and publishing the HBR, the Review Journal, which is basically a really fancy paid substack. It's got 350,000 subscribers who pay for the HBR, the Harvard Business Review. But the majority of that revenue, I think, I can try to find it, but I studied this a lot. I think that a lot of the,

so if you go to Harvard Business School, they release all their, they break it out. They break it all out. And so if I read it here, so 34% of the, so their revenue actually went down in 2019. It was 900 million.

In 2021, it was 800. So 34% of that was whatever you said, 300 comes from publishing. The next thing down is 14% came from tuition. And of the of the 34% from publishing, most of it is from selling, I think it's like they've sold like, they sell like five million case studies a year. To other business schools, yeah, which is, which is insane. It's a lot. And the Harvard Business Review has a lot of revenue from international. So here's the other kind of like dirty secret from from Harvard, which is that they make a ton of money off of executive education, $464 million. So almost like,

not quite half, but like, you know, almost half of the money they make from their degree, their actual school, they make on executive education, which is basically you pay to get professional development credits, aka you get to put Harvard on your resume without actually having a Harvard degree. If you go to Tyra Banks, remember Tyra Banks? Of course. The model. If you go to if you go. Yeah, that's right. If you, big tea for sure. If you go to her LinkedIn, it says Harvard business.

school. And then like, you got to scroll down and you'll see you'll see parentheses and you'll say I'll say extension. It's a very classic technique. Right. My cousin did this. He went there and I was like, whoa, we're going to Harvard? He's like, I'm going to a, I'm taking classes at Harvard. He's like, yeah, I'm taking classes at Harvard. So you got into Harvard. Uh, yeah. You know, like, sure. I got into the executive education program at Harvard. And he's like, yeah, like, you know, on my resume, it says Harvard.

And he's like, you know, one out of three people understand what it is and two out of three don't. I like my odds. Yeah. There's also the international arm. Their international revenues up like 80 percent because they're selling the business review over there. They're selling, you know, executive education. Come on. Come to America.

Come to the best part of America. the Louis Vuitton of education, right? So basically, you got billions in revenue, zero taxes owed, a huge barrier to entry, a brand that's lasted over a century, the government loans your customers money, and gives you grants for your R&D. Like, what a business. Dude, that's absolutely crazy.

And a lot of people don't realize this. And to put these numbers in perspective, let's just say that, so you said their endowment. I'm just doing all this math right here. So I might be off, but I bet you, if we Google it, this will be true. If their endowment is 50... You're not doing public math, are you?

Well, yeah, I am. Sorry, but if they're in debt, but it might be wrong. If their endowment is $55 billion, and their expenses, some years, I just Google it right now, is around $5 billion. That means, theoretically, there are some years that they can pay or charge their students zero tuition and pay for everything still. Well, the way that the endowment works is it's a $50 billion-dollar issue endowment. And the plan is they distribute 5% of it a year. So 5% of it a year is used. But the rule is this endowment needs to last forever.

So they're only going to distribute 5% because they need the other 95% to stay in and keep rolling. And in 2022, when my portfolio was down like 45%, they lost 1.8%. Well, they're doing it right. Right. God damn forever geniuses. Somehow lost only less than 2% when the whole market has been terrible this year. Here's their portfolio, by the way. 3% cash.

32% into hedge funds. Which head funds does it say? It doesn't say which ones, no. 44% into private equity plus venture capital, but most of its private equity. So what do they buy? So that's the bulk of it. And then there's 6% real estate, 3% bonds, 5% treasuries,

and 6% foreign equities. Okay. So what's this private equity stuff? Is that mean they're in like? Acto or whatever. Like BlackRock or whatever. Or BlackRock? Wow.

Dude, this is like a circle jerk to the max. Everyone's hands full on this. one. This is crazy, right? Because Yeah, because if you think about it, like, if I look up where the hedge fund guys went, I bet, you know, 70% of them went to Harvard. I mean, this is just, it's pretty, it's a very circular thing

going on here. It's pretty wild. Like, it is, it's, I would say, it's almost corrupt. And if you think about a 50 billion dollar endowment, that's bigger than I, than I would imagine 95% of countries' GOP. I mean, it's like, that's massive. GOP? Sorry, GOP. GOP.

That's the, what's that? The Republicans. What's the GDP? Yeah. But, and yeah, like, you know, we think these VC funds like Sequoia and Andrescent are like really big. Like, I don't know what Andrewsons total AUM is, but I'm guessing it's like between 10 and 15 billion. It ain't 50. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. 50 billion. And they're, I mean, they're, they're, okay, they're now at 35. They've been scaling it up like crazy. But that's our full-time job. Harvard is more. That's their thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah. That's their thing. This is just like, you know, I would imagine there was a, I forget what I was watching, but there was some show where it was like a lot of people don't realize this, but like venture capital and P.E. Like the biggest when people, I always hated when people celebrated a venture capital company going bust. Like what was that one guy who, the Disney guy who went and started the thing that Quibi, you know, it raised like billions of dollars and went and it went bust. What a lot of people don't realize is this money.

So the money that is given to Andresen Horowitz and to this and that, it comes from the universities. It also comes from the California's teachers pension plan or the police pension plan or firefighters. And like you'll like I think if I remember correctly, I believe like Nevada. For some reason, I think it was like the state of Nevada for their pension plan for government workers. Something like that had one of the best returns. And they were basically like one dorky guy. And he's pretty much just like Warren Buffett. You know, he has a similar style or a similar budget where he has all this money.

And he just would sit in this office. And except unlike Warren Buffett, he's getting paid by the state. And so there was a story about how he was making, you know, a nice amount of money a year. But he would bring brown paper bag lunch and he just drove a forward. He's on Windows 95. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, look, I'm on the, and this guy was like a fiduciary of fiduciaries where he was like, I don't waste taxpayer money.

And because of that, I read all this stuff. I very rarely make big bets. But when I do, it fucking crushes it. And so, like, these guys... Yeah, he's great. And he's like... So anyway, it's just like these guys making these decisions. They're just government workers in a way,

but they're basically mini Warren Buffets. And so it's really fascinating, like the world of these, like, endowments and these pensions. I met a guy once who worked for Alaska's permanent fund. I don't know if you know about this. They have 79 billion in assets under management. So Alaska has all this money from the oil stuff or whatever. and then they give everybody who lives in Alaska

like three grand a year or something like that which is basically like when people were talking about universal income they're like oh that sounds crazy I'm like you know they do that in Alaska I think I think you get 15 grand a year if you live in Alaska right yeah I don't know I thought it was like maybe three four but yeah maybe it's more

but yeah and then there I met a guy who manages that that money and he's just like what was he like he wasn't the main principle but he was a guy who worked there and he was like he was at the farming conference and I was like what are you doing here And he's like, I'm looking for, you know, intelligence and investments. You know, farmland is a great investment. I was like, wow, good for you.

This is, you know, who would have thought this guy's managing way more money? Are these people manage way more money than like the famous kind of hedge funds or venture capitalists that you hear a lot about? Dude, I wonder if this topic is interesting. Ben, let me know in the Slack because I like, I'm geeking out in this stuff. I found this to be crazy fascinating. So he's typing now. You want to do one more thing?

Yeah, let's do one more. a quick idea. My nine? My nine. Okay, so I was a little bit sick. Last 24 hours. You have a great haircut, by the way, though. I really like the uptown fade. You got, you know, high fade.

It's the uptown fade with the downtown brow. I don't know what that means. I just wanted to say something cool. It looks good. You look sharp. Have you been, how much weight have you lost in the past three years? I think I've gained weight. in the last three years,

I just changed the composition. Like I put on a lot of muscle, too much muscle in a way that's like not good. Like, not like, it's like, I'm neither a bodybuilder, nor am I ripped.

I'm just thick. And thick is like, I don't know anybody who puts thick on their vision board. Like, some people do. I mean, look at your right arm right now. Dude,

your right arm right now, I definitely see. I definitely see trisat. Yes. I see a great teardrop. That's a, that you got a, You had a good tricep muscle.

That's my, what do you call it? Like your highlight, your keystone asset? That's my keystone asset. Your tries. Thank God it's in the Zoom view. Imagine if my quads were what was good, I'd just be wasting it every day. Welcome to my life, my friend. You should make an excuse to stand up every day, every episode just to flex on them a little bit.

Yeah, quad zeal. No, you look good. You definitely look svelt and people in the comments are saying it. But sorry, go ahead. Well, that was great. Anytime you want to take that. that tangent and we can go there. All right.

So I was, I was in a fever and I had a little fever dream. I thought of an idea that I'm pretty sure would go viral. I'm not going to do it, but you know, our friend, Nikita,

who has created the same app twice and sold it twice to the same to similarly stupid tech companies that didn't realize it's like just like a nothing app. Oh, you're talking about Nikita the asshole beer. That's a jerked, right?

That's an official name, right? For those you don't know, very true. We call him TB Cooper, but it just stands for Dushbag Cooper. Yeah, I know Nikita the S.L beer. Yeah, the funny thing is he's got this persona online of being kind of like a shit poster and like kind of a shithead. But usually when you meet those people, if you ever meet somebody like that, you're like, what are they like? It's like, dude, total sweetheart. Love that guy.

Totally not like you see online. no you know how like you know it's a very common thing where you're like oh you know Sean you know saying whatever oh yeah great guy great guy I don't know that that knows that phrase may not be used with him is he getting great guy he's not getting great guy yeah yeah he's more of a he doesn't get a wow he gets a wow you know what I mean that that's him so anyways the genius of what he's done because undeniably created uh you know these like really viral App's his app works as follows. You download the app.

You take a quiz that says, who in your school or who in your contact is most likely to whatever. And they try to figure out in your context, who you talk to the most or whatever so that they could surface maybe the right person in a multiple choice. So that you say, Sam is the guy who I'd want to bail me out of jail. And then at the end of the thing, it's like, wow, those are awesome. Do you want to know what Sam says about you?

And you're like, yeah, for sure. And basically it texts you in the background. And it's like, Sam, someone said that, you'd be the most likely person to bail them out of jail. Do you want to see who? And you're like, of course, click, download. You take the quiz, and that's the viral loop. Do you remember back in the day, I think I have another one of these,

do you remember back in the day the Myspace top eight, I think it was called? It was like, was that like who was in your top eight friends? Yeah, you just got, I mean, this was, this was like a pretty wild concept, to be honest with you. You just put on your profile, you know, these are my top eight friends in order. Which is like, I don't know, today that'd be considered like, bullying to the 10th degree. Well, you know, I think where that came from was like, do you remember blog rules?

Yes. If you would go to a blog and it would say like, here's who else. Yeah, on the right hand side, you would list like eight other blogs that were similar to you that you were friends with, which by the way, I thought was awesome. I always like, I go to, I try to find whatever way to discover things. Yeah, I love doing that. And then the lot of people don't know this, but Tony Shea, the founder of Zappos, he created, what was it called?

It was called MediaLink, I think. and it basically went from zero to like a $400 million acquisition. And all they did, I think originally, it's called Link Exchange, is what it was called, is they helped broker the deals where eventually it was a pay to play for like the blog rolls, which is like the things on the side. And I think that is where MySpace kind of got like this idea of like, here's like my top eight or whatever. Like here's the people I to help you discover new people. Right.

And, you know, Tom from MySpace would always be your automatic number one when you start And then you have to fill in your friends. And it was this awesome thing. You could go to someone's profile and you could be like, oh, they're best friends with this person. Oh, this girl moved to number one. Maybe they're dating. It was like this little like signaling thing.

And it was cool to be. It felt so good to be in someone's top eight and it felt so bad to be out of someone's top eight. So it lets you know where you stand. And there's something I really appreciate about that. So I think you can recreate that now with something I'm calling My Nine. And what my nine is you download this app and it just says, who are your nine people? Who you rock it with?

And you just designate, of my contacts, these are my nine, and they let you publish that as a photo to Instagram or as a video onto TikTok or whatever. It just lets you share that out, just saying, hey, here's my nine, and you tag them, and it texts them also from your phone. And somebody puts you in their, they're my nine. Do you want to see who?

Of course you're going to download. Of course you're going to sign up to see who. You're going to connect your address book, and then you're going to select your nine, and you'll reciprocate because that's what people do. And so I think this would also go super viral because I think it just has those human psychology triggers

where if you've got that message you got to know who did it and then when you're there you'll do it too because it's kind of fun like a little personality quiz and then that triggers the next nine invites

that go out and nine invites is enough to go viral so like even if you have a 15% conversion rate on which this would have more like 40% probably you will by definition

your K factor will be over one you will go viral dude I always wanted that for when I die you know like my nine for when I did that my die my die my die so like I've always wondered like if I die how is anyone going to know because like when you I imagine this sounds dushy I don't know just here's my nine friends top nine friends I don't know again I'm going to preface this

this sounds dushy but when you start having a little bit of something you eventually you have so many different accounts and like there's companies that I've invested in and I fucking forgot when I when I sold the hustle we there's this one guy he's uh what was his name Jonah he started moat.com and he sold it for like a billion dollars. He's just a rich guy and he gave me very little money enough that like he probably makes that a day in interest. And when we sold, it took me a year to get in contact with him. I swear to God, it took the lawyers for like, dude, we cannot get in touch with this guy like his, because he sold his company. So he's, and like, he just, we can't get in touch with them. We don't know how to, we have to give him his money,

but he's owed money. It's just sitting here. And I'm not close to that. But there are some investments that I've made that I've forgotten about. And I've always wondered, like, if I die, how is anyone in my family going to know, like, where the stuff is? Or if they're, who are they going to contact? Like, is there like a, like a, like a next of kin, like checklist? You know what I mean?

And it changes all the time, too. So even if you wrote it down once, this is going to change. I actually don't know how this works when you die. How do they discover all your assets? Especially now with like crypto or angel investing? I don't know. I don't know. And who are they going to know what to contact?

Because particularly with crypto, it's a lot of, a single young guys, like, who's like the next of kin for that? I have no idea. You know, there was, do you watch Succession? Hey, this is producer Ben. Quick note, Sam is about to drop a massive spoiler for the HBO series Succession. So if you plan on watching it and you're not all the way caught up, skip ahead like two minutes. Enjoy. They're like, he, he just left everything to this emoji. Yeah. Dude, on Succession, it's like a, you know, the thing, it's basically Rubet Murdoch's family. and the the Rupert Murdoch character dies, and they find his will, and he wrote it in pencil,

but there's this part where he's giving stuff the company to his son, and they can't determine if he's crossing it is. Yeah, well, no, they couldn't determine, is he crossing out the guy's name or underlining the guy's name? Because it was like a crooked line. They're like, is he crossing it out or underlining? We don't really know what that is. But I thought about that.

I'm like, when I die, if I die, and my wife dies at the same time, unless we don't have kids, whatever. I'm like, who are they? going to know to contact it. Like, they got to figure out where my mother lives. Like, it just seems like an ordeal. You're going to have a really rich dog. Yeah, I guess.

So they need My Nine, but like, that's like now like the- You took this in terms of like a trust and will solution. Yeah. My Teenage Viral App idea. Yeah. My Nine probate is what it's called. That it's just like. You really, yes and did that one.

He went full improv kid on that one and took it to an holy place. Dude, I've just been thinking about that. Have you not thought about that? Because, like, there's some shit that you probably done. It could be small. Like, every once in a while, like, just do a deal. Like, I'll just invest, like, five grand into something. And I don't tell anyone about it.

Like, you know, you and I, you and I were joking. Five grand is about the limit where you, like, tell your spouse that you're doing it. And, like, you know, there's been things that I've done. Like, oh, I don't even fucking remember. And I guess there's a scratch-off ticket that I won somewhere. I have no idea. Dude, yes, I've thought about that, especially with crypto. But then when crypto crashed, I was like, hey, never mind.

Forget what I told you. matter anymore. You know, those instructions I told you about how, like, you know, it's written on this fireproof, you know, platinum card that's stored in this safe in this foreign country. Forget about it. You don't need to go retrieve it anymore. Particularly with crypto, it seems crazy. So I need my nine, but for my will.

God damn. Okay, for enough. I guess that's the bond. Did I, I meant to be a yes man on that one. by the way. Not a, not a... Yeah, you did. All right, good.

That's good. All right. Is that the pod? That's the pod.