My First Million - SHOTS FIRED!! OPEN AI Explodes

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Episode 520: Shaan Puri (https://twitter.com/ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (https://twitter.com/theSamParr) are dropping an EMERGENCY POD. They’ve been on Twitter all weekend–ignoring their families–just to bring you this breakdown of the chaos going down at OpenAI.   No more small boy spreadsheets, build your business on the free HubSpot CRM: https://mfmpod.link/hrd — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (2:00) Act One - Sam Altman gets fired from OpenAI (6:30) Act Two - The Board vs The Team (9:30) Act Three: A new CEO is crowned (12:30) Sam Altman: the man, the myth (18:00) Who is Greg Brockman and Ilya Sutskever? (32:30) Emmett Shear enters the chat (48:00) The boys make predictions (50:00) Takeaway: The best and worst of Silicon Valley in 48 hours — Links: • Sam Altman’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/sama • Greg Brockman’s Blog - https://blog.gregbrockman.com — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Try Shepherd Out - https://www.supportshepherd.com/ • Shaan's Personal Assistant System - http://shaanpuri.com/remoteassistant • Power Writing Course - https://maven.com/generalist/writing • Small Boy Newsletter - https://smallboy.co/ • Daily Newsletter - https://www.shaanpuri.com/ Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com/ Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. — Other episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto • #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

911, what's the state of your emergency? Hey, the tech industry got flipped upside down over the weekend. I was staring at my phone the whole time. I haven't been so invigorated by any story in like five years. My wife might divorce me because I haven't looked up from my phone. I've just been on Twitter all weekend. Sam, how are you doing right now with this OpenAI story? It's been awesome.

The real winner through all this is Twitter. Twitter's been great for this, right? Twitter just thrives through all types of controversy. Twitter, aka the Silicon Valley Group chat, has been awesome. Awesome all weekend. It's been awesome. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I thought there was a chance that you were just like out duck hunting and I would come on today and you'd be like, what happened? So, you know, I thought there was a small chance. I'm a Sam Altman fan. I've loved this guy. We've talked about him for years. I'm a big fan of his. This is, and I love drama. I love gossip.

I read TMZ every day. And so now I've got TMZ on Twitter. It's awesome. Of course, we're talking about OpenAI and Sam Altman getting fired on, we're recording this Monday. He was fired like Friday, but there's like news happening in real time, like constantly, right? Exactly. Like just as of an hour ago, there's news.

So we don't know exactly where this is going to all land. We're going to try to get this out as soon as we can. We had a whole other episode plan today. We canceled it. We just said, let's do this right now. What's our reaction? What is our reaction to the open AI stuff that's going on? All right, Sam, where do you want to start?

I think we should take this character by character, go through all the players that were involved, and I think we should give them kind of a grade. And they can get it, you know, if they get an A or an A plus, that means they came out a big winner here. You can get a C, you can get an F. I think we should grade all the players of how this has turned out for them in the, you know, 48 hours so far that this happened. Do you want to first give a little timeline summary recap? Yeah. So

I think you should do it because you've been paying attention to it more closely, but it all started Friday at like what, 3 o'clock? Exactly. Friday afternoon, there's, I get a text message from Ben Levy he just says, wow, Sam Altman, what the fuck? Holy shit. What?

But he doesn't say the news yet and then I'm like, what? And then he's like, Sam Altman, out. But he like misspels out. Then he like, Does the star's not out? Out of what? Where's the out of it? It was unfathable that Sam Albin would get fired, right?

Like, in the same way that, you know, I don't expect to wake up and see that Elon Musk has been fired from Tesla. You don't think, you don't wake up and think that Sam Altman's going to get fired from Open AI, which is the hottest private company, probably the most important startup in the world that has gone from zero to 90 billion in valuation in just a couple of years here. Yeah, it was shocking. It started because Open AI, I don't even know, our guy put it in military time. So what's this, 248? At 248, OpenAI announced a leadership transition. They said that Sam Altman is departing as CEO because he was not consistently candid in his communications with the board.

And their CTO, a lady named Mira, she was become the intermittent CEO. A little over an hour later, Sam Altman said, I loved my time at OpenAI. It was transformative for me personally and that he's excited for what's next. Well, let's pause there because the first phase here is wild speculation. So the speculation is, oh, my God, shock and speculation. So I can't believe this happened. Like an April Fool's joke. It must have been something bad, dude.

You know, he must be, you know, this was there fraud? Did they unleash AGI? Was there a huge privacy like leak that is causing him to have to step down because there's a security issue that he overlooked? Is this, there's like this accusation from his sister about. sexual assault when they were kids is it because of that and everybody assumes it's got to be the worst until one hour later or what is it one hour later yeah i think a couple hours later gregg who was the chairman and was essentially his co-founder of open ai the lead technical guy at the time uh or the early days sends this message to the team hi everyone super proud of what we built

starting in my apartment eight years ago. We've been through tough times and great times together, accomplishing so much doing what should have been impossible. Based on today's news, comma, I quit. Wishing you all the best. With the eye lowercase.

The I lowercase. And so then now we enter phase two. Phase two is, wait, Greg's on the board. Wait, Greg is a stand-up guy. If it was something really bad,

Greg would not have just quit with him. This must not. be as bad. Is there some kind of power play, jealousy, a coup that's happening here? Is Sam being wrong? And instantly, I see the Court of Public Opinion shift. And the Court of Public Communion says, look, if Sam did something really effed up, Greg would not have just followed him out the door and quit, unless Greg was in on it. So still a possibility. More likely, it seems like Greg doesn't stand for this reasoning. So maybe we don't stand for this reasoning. And all of a sudden, you see the Sam Army.

come forward. People who are startups from YC when he was the president of YC saying look, I don't know what happened here, but Sam is like, he went to bat for me. So many stories came out that were all the same variety.

I don't know if you saw these. They were all the same variety. It was a startup saying, we had a time when we were screwed. I emailed Sam to be like, hey, here's what's going on, blah, blah, blah. Sam quickly replied with just something like,

hey, make sure you're, you know, you're communicating or like, like, you know, just do your best. There's only what you can control. But behind the scenes, he went to war for us. We found out later that he called all of investors, threatened to dangle them over the balcony if they screwed us. And he saved our ass and didn't even mention it that he was doing that.

Just in the background, he went through and saved us. And we found out later that this was true. So I don't know what happened here, but, you know, I ride with Sam. Well, an equally big deal is one time I had a customer service. question and I DMed him and he replied and he solved it for me. Exactly. And a lot of it was he replied fast. He replied when he didn't have to.

He vouched for us when he didn't have to. Man, he did. By the way, that was out of joke. He did reply to me. Like I had like air. I couldn't figure something out. I was like, I'm just going to DM Sam. And he replied with like the, the, he solved my problem.

But yeah, the guy seems like a great guy. And his brother comes out and says to all the people that are gleefully hating today, please know you're betting against the wrong guy. okay so that kind of foreshadows act two act two is the weekend so Friday you get the crazy news dump now the weekend you have news that people start even inside the company start to stand with sam because they say if there was something bad tell us what it is you don't have to say it publicly say it internally what does it mean he wasn't candidly consistent or consistently candid with the board about what did he lie what did he lie about how bad was it

you're taking our leader out, our two leaders out now. And wait, who is the board? Oh, the board is like this combination of people who have no, they didn't build this. They don't even own equity in this, but they're deciding our future because the board is basically one legit technologist, this guy Adam DeAngelo, who was the co-founder, CTO of Facebook back of the day,

and then he co-founded Quora after that. So you have Adam, legitimate character in Silicon Valley. And then you have a bunch of other people that nobody's ever heard of. One of them is like that actor's wife, she's like, you know, an academic somewhere, never had a job. Joseph and Gordon Levitt. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. You know, the guy from inception, you know, great. The guy from inception, not Leonardo DiCaprio. Not even him. He's not the one of the board. And not even him, exactly. So you got like, you know, you got her,

you got a couple of the characters here. But nobody that is, again, no equity, no skin in the game. And no track record building or operating, you know, complex companies. So that seems a bit weird. They're getting no data. And rumors come out. Sam's going to have a new company by Monday. Sam and Greg are going to create an open AI competitor by Monday,

which is just like a pretty badass. threat to throw down. And so once the team starts to say, they start to tweet out these emoji hearts saying, I basically, I stand with Sam. I don't know all the details, but if you don't come out with any details explaining why you did this, I'm going to probably leave with Sam. And so the board starts scrambling and they start trying to renegotiate with Sam to maybe bring him back. And his conditions are like, cool, I'll come back. Y'all all got to resign and clear my name. you've got to bring back Greg, and we're going to put a new board together. That's like the board of my choosing.

The board doesn't want to do all that. And so they're kind of stalling. They're going back and forth. He goes back to the office with a guest pass on his badge, and he says, this is the last time I'll ever enter this office with a guest pass. And then at the last minute, we hear the news come out. It looks like Sam's coming back. And then Sunday night, it hits.

There's a new CEO in town. Emmett Shear. My former boss, the former CEO of Twitch, is now suddenly the guy for open eyes. Sam is out. He's in shock. That that was like, you know, what I thought was the end. And before I went to sleep, thinking, okay, we're going to record this pod. I thought that was the end. Emmett releases an announcement on Twitter saying basically like, hey, hey, I'm here. Here's my 30 day plan. I wake up this morning and there's more news. 600 of the 700 employees of OpenAI have signed a petition saying,

if you don't bring Sam and Greg back and all resign, we're all leaving. 600 of 700. It was actually 500 as of 3 a.m. And then it got to 650 as of as of right before recording this. That's basically 100 people woke up and also signed the pledge, including by the way. the guy who was supposedly behind the entire coup, Ilya, the main technologist, the scientist, who was the on the board,

who was the guy who sent Sam a Google Meet link and was like, hey, can you join this right quick? And Sam's like, sure, let me just pop on. Let me just get my microphone. And he pops on and then gets fired.

The whole board is sitting there and they executed his ass. Ilya comes out and signs the pledge and says, I'm sorry for what I did. What? And he even tweets out. He goes, like, I want to get the band back together. make it right. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I regret what I did and, you know, we'll try to write the wrong. And then on top of that, before that thing happened, Sata Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, comes out and says, hey, we still support Open AI. Sure. Look forward to meeting the new guy, Emmett, which is just a really funny way of putting it, because apparently they were not consulted and only told one minute before the firing happened that, one minute before the press release went out that Sam was fired. So they were blindsided, even though they've agreed to fund $10 billion into this company and own 49% of it.

And then he says, oh, and good news. Sam and Greg now work for Microsoft. And this is just like the ultimate checkmate move. Because Sam, I don't know if you know this, but Microsoft, not only do they own 49%. not only do they provide all of the funding, which Open AI requires to exist. They could pull that at any minute now because a lot of that funding is in compute credits,

so basically server credits. But not only that, they also have the license to all the technology. They have the model, the weights, the inference. They have everything that they need to basically hand Sam and Greg the new, like all of the code and be like, you don't have to start from scratch, here you go.

And so in the end, they got everything. They got everything they wanted. They got the team, the technology, the money. They got everything. The most interesting part of all this, though, is the characters, because this is, everyone keeps saying this is succession in real life. And it is. It's one of the greatest things to happen in Silicon Valley in the last, you know, 15 years.

It's a beautiful storyline. We thought Sam Bankman was a gift from the gods in terms of podcasting. is actually, I think, more interesting. It's not played out yet. So the story is still going to keep going. But let's talk about the characters. Let's talk about Sam Altman first. We talked about him. Well, we've talked about him a ton. But this guy, basically, his background is he's from St. Louis, my hometown. Give a shout out to St. Louis. Then he moved to Silicon Valley to join Y Combinator at the age of like 19 or 20. He started a company that had like mild success. I think it raised a fair amount of money and sold for $50 million, of which he walked away with $5 million at the age

of like 21. And using that $5 million, he part laid that into hundreds of millions by investing in things like Airbnb, Dropbox, things like that, because he worked at White Combinator, eventually becomes president of White Combinator at the age of 27. Two quotes from Paul Graham about time all of it. And remember, Paul Graham is somebody who invested in Dropbox, invested in Airbnb, invested, you know, he's seen the founders. He knows everybody in Silicon Valley. He's met Mark Zuckerberg. He's met all these guys. And so for him to be most impressed by Sam Altman means something. And he says, Sam Altman has it. You could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back

five years later and he'd be the king. That's the first one. And then he goes, the second one he goes, I met Sam Altman many years ago when he was 19 years old. He was a Stanford dropout, which by the way, Harvard or Stanford dropout is the number one resume. Stanford. That is the number one like item. If you go to Harvard to Stanford and you don't drop out,

you have intentionally chosen to not have the number one credential you can have, which is Harvard dropout or Stanford dropout. So he says, within three minutes of meeting him, I remember thinking, ah,

so this is what Bill Gates must have been like when he was 19. In three minutes. I don't know what Sam Alma did in three minutes, but I would love, I would love to know. I am fascinated by people who are special.

They're the kind of the freaks. I love it in sports, but you can see it. You could see LeBron James at age 17 was like a freak of nature. Yeah, he had like the equivalent of a 42-inch vert. You know, whatever he did, it was like, yeah, it was like an eighth-grade or dunking. There's another story that's kind of remarkable.

I thought this kind of tells you about this guy's character. So Sam Altman's gay. He came out when he was like 15 or 16, I think. You said something about he's from your hometown to St. Louis. There's some story, which is that he came out. And not only did he just kind of, out as a teenager, which alone takes some bravery. He then, like, hosted like a pep rally or something like that.

He went to John Burroughs. So in St. Louis, where I'm from, every, most all high schools are either Catholic or some type of Christian, whatever. And he came out as being gay, but he, like, went to a, or I think he created, like, a club, some type of, like, gay club and at a Catholic school, they're like, no, we're not, we're not about this. And so I think he led, like, a walkout, like a school walkout. That takes a lot of, like, a little leadership.

Yeah, he's a very courageous guy. And then, but for like the last 15 years pre-open AI, he was, even though he was president of Y Combinator, he was still a little bit behind the scenes. And even though that he was running this huge incubator and he's a powerful guy, it still felt like, well, why would Paul Graham say this about this kid who still has yet, it still has unfilled potential? A couple years ago, he starts working on Open AI. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh, all right, the guy was plotting and it's, he's played the long game. Now we understand why everyone like looks up to this guy. And Open AI has basically taken over the tech industry and went from zero to one of the biggest companies in the world in, what, five years or something like that?

Yeah, exactly. So he leaves the most prestigious job in Silicon Valley, which is president of YC. He's a dean of our Harvard. He quits suddenly because the nonprofit research organization he co-founded, you know, he felt like that was the right opportunity. And he did that suddenly, it was surprising. I remember at the time I had the thought, I think I've said this. before here, which is that I had the thought, like, if Sam Altman just quit being the president of YC to go join OpenAI,

how can I justify coming into work tomorrow? Like, why would I not also go to Open AI? Whatever Open AI is, I knew nothing at the time. But all I do is if that one of the smartest guys in the world went and did that, maybe I should go do that too. And honestly, that would have been the greatest career move I ever made if I had done that. because OpenAI quickly changed its structure from nonprofit to becoming a capped for-profit thing

and became worth nearly $100 billion in a short period of time. Creating ChatGPT, the fastest growing product of all time to get to 100 million users faster than any. And let's go to his two partners, because when he started it, there's a bunch of weird stories that aren't entirely out in the open, but it seems like there was something where Elon Musk funded the business or helped fund the business at first.

He invested $40 million. And he also helped to recruit and convince a few of Sam's co-founders to join. Is that right? That's right. So basically when people say, okay, great, Sam's this, you drop him on an island of cannibals. He comes out, okay, cool. But what's his skill? What does he do?

And basically it was like on anything about strategy or ambition, but this is what Paul Graham said. He said, if there was ever a question on strategy or ambition, I default to what would Sam do? And, you know, Paul Graham was like 20 years older than Sam saying that. So that's kind of impressive. So what did he do? He basically has a conversation with Elon Musk and the two of them shared the same belief, which was that artificial intelligence was going to be a big deal that we would be able to one day realize AGI, which is artificial general intelligence. Think about it as, you know, super intelligence when, when, you know, AI is generally smarter than humans and,

kind of everything that we, you know, most of the things that we try to do. So the, they both said that's also kind of scary because we don't know what's going to happen on the other side of AGI. So we should fund research in a nonprofit that will study, you know, fund the research around this so that we can safely create AGI. Instead of having AGI that kills us all like the movies. So what Sam did was he hosts his dinner in Palo Alto. And, you know, he gets Elon Musk there and he gets a few other smart key people.

One of them was this guy Greg, who was at the time the CTO of Stripe, which was before Open AI, was the most impactful big startup in the world. So they gets a CTO of Stripe. He gets this guy, Ilya, who's like the lead research scientist and AI at Google. Essentially, he's kind of like one of the founding fathers of AI and deep learning. And so they get a bunch of these people around the table. And they basically, Reed Hoffman is there. And they basically are like, we need to do this. Elon basically agrees to fund $40 million into the nonprofit.

So Elon puts his money where his mouth is. Sam helps recruit, put the whole deal together, puts things the people together. On the way home, Sam's like, hey, Greg, let me give you a ride back to San Francisco. So they drive back to San Francisco. And what Greg says,

what Sam says is the first 30 minutes, it's an hour-long drive from Palo Alto to San Francisco. He says the first 30 minutes, Greg just asked me rapid fire like 150 questions. Then the next, then at the 30-minute point, goes, okay, I've decided I'm going to do this. I'll quit Stripe and I'll join Open AI. Whatever this thing is that you're creating, I will join it. So the next 30 minutes,

they started making their plan. Like, okay, what are the first things we need to do? Which tells you something about Greg to do, again, a crazy career move like that to, you know, just have independent mindedness and conviction and something that quickly and tells you something about Sam's persuasiveness and ability to like put this thing together. Then what Elon says is that he recruited Ilya out of Google, which was very, very hard to do. And he says it's the reason that him and Larry Page, founder of Google, don't talk anymore. You know, he used to be friends with Larry. He used to famously, Elon didn't own a house for a period of time, and he would just crash at friends' houses. And so he would crash at Larry Page's house all the time. He says that they got into arguments about

AI and that he was really worried about AI and Larry was like tech forward and was like, no, it's going to be amazing. And then he says that, you know, he got pissed when Larry called called him a specious, but basically like, you are, you're just all about humans. And Elon was like, what the fuck else am I supposed to be about? Are you not? That scares me even more. I'm going to create Open AI now to, like, defend against Google, which owned DeepMind, the number one player at the time.

And so Elon basically poaches, Elon and Sam poach Ilya out of Google, which took a lot of money and a lot of persuasion, I believe, to get him out. And that he becomes, when he joins Open AI, the research community, who worships this guy basically followed, and they got all the top researchers to join. And that is the founding story of opening eye. That's amazing, right? I mean, I just, this is like drama, movie drama shit of just that dinner, that drive home.

I mean, this is perfect. And we're going to have to have Justin Timberlake stars, one of these guys. And so this brings us to, I think, the second character that we should talk about, this guy, Greg, who I believe is the unsung hero in this whole thing. because Sam Altman is kind of like he's the hero, right? He's the CEO. He gets backstabbed. He gets wronged.

He's the martyr. He had to suffer. People come out and they're all supporting Sam and sharing. It's like a funeral for Sam on Twitter the other day. He's like, oh, I remember that once Sam responded to my customer service request. Like, oh, I was on a bike once. And Sam, you know, he moved over in the lane so I could go by. Right.

Like everybody was just sharing their favorite Sam memory. And then nobody's really talking about Greg. Now, Greg, in my opinion, shifted this whole fucking thing. Because at first, it was like, damn, I don't know what Sam did. Must have been horrible, blah, blah, blah. As soon as Greg came out and was like, yo, on this, I quit. And they're like, Greg's the number two. He's on the board.

He was the chairman of the board, I think. They're like, if Greg doesn't think this was right, I don't think it's right. And so Greg single-handedly like shifted the perception and the narrative around this whole thing. And the board didn't counteract that. And so I think Greg was the real hero of this. And then what I did was there's some amazing blog posts that anybody who's a real nerd about this stuff, if you just really love kind of like the lore, the canon of Silicon Valley,

you've got to go read this. Greg has blog posts up on his blog about the early days of Open AI. And I think he blogged the early days of Open AI last week. No, this is eight years ago. This thing started a long time ago. And he talks about, like, they didn't have an office. He's like, all right, just come to my apartment. And he's like, here's the four of us in our apartment.

He's like, I didn't know anything about machine learning. So I did two things. Number one, I asked Ilya, what is the number one textbook about machine learning? I bought it and I studied it religiously. He's like, I read everything there was to know about deep learning and machine learning. He goes, and this is the former CTO of Stripe. He's not like a non-technical dude. He's known as like this incredible one of these 10x or 100x engineers.

And he says, I didn't know anything about deep learning. So I just dedicated myself to go read, you know, page one, chapter one of the book. And I'm going to take notes and I'm going to ask a ton of questions. He goes, two, while these guys were setting up their research stuff, I did everything else. Like, oh, your back looks a little uncomfortable. You need a pillow? Oh, you guys thirsty? I'll go get smoothies.

And he's doing literally all the like intern grunt work, those first few months to get them set up. He's like, and it basically was alternating between research would do something. Then research would get blocked. And I would say, oh, what's blocking you? They're like, oh, it's taking forever to run this training center. I have to like organize this data. And then Greg would stay up all night and basically like do the engineering, because people don't realize engineering and coding is very different than AI research. And so he would do the coding that would make the researchers go faster. He built basically all of the infrastructure so that researchers could do great work. And And even with GPT, there was a story like, you know, they ran the model and the output was kind of like, ah, like, it was so-so.

And then Greg, like, locked himself in a room for two weeks. And he came out and suddenly GPT worked. And people were like, what the hell just happened? And he's like, you, I blacked out. And, you know, I did that. And so he has these great blog posts and photos of those early days that I thought was kind of amazing. So Greg was born in 89, which puts him around 34 years old now. He joined Strikes. in 2010. He became CTO in 2013. So he was CTO of Stripe when he was about 24, 25 years old. And then he left Stripe to co-found OpenAI.

So he was only 26, 27 when he started working on OpenAI. It's pretty amazing. These guys are freaks. Unreal. It's wild. It's unreal. And by the way, what did you give? You forgot to give a grade.

So Sam Altman, he's going to win no matter what in all of this. So I think he was going to get like, let's say a B plus, right? He was going to get a B plus. Why? Because you got fired. You got backstabed by your own, your own people. Not great. Not a great thing to happen.

Two, they haven't said what you did, but you did something, right? They weren't just going to fire you for nothing. So like, you did something. We don't know what it is. Unknown. Okay, I can't give you an A for that. It looked like he was going to get the job back, which would have been great, but then he didn't.

So it didn't happen in the end. So even though you got some support from your team didn't happen. until the Microsoft thing happened, which was literally like, imagine playing a game of chess and you're like, oh, I think I got this guy. You know, I have a five piece to three advantage here. His queen is out. And then you look up from the board and he's holding,

you know, a Glock to your head. And that's what happened to Ilya here. But basically it's like he's, now he's at Microsoft. They have the license to all of the technology. They have all the training data in the world because guess what, 90% of computers are PCs that run Microsoft, that run Windows.

He has all the funding in the world. He got paid, I'm sure. There's, you know, like Satya had to bring, Sam and Greg in before the stock market opened on Monday just to kind of like, not have this be an issue for Microsoft that they got screwed here.

They put a bunch of money into a lute, into a lame duck. And so he got everything. He got the tech. 600 of 700 people follow, are saying they're going to follow him there. So he got the team. he got the money, he got the funding,

and he got it all in 48 hours. And they were basically like, yeah, they're going to lead a new subsidiary of Microsoft that's going to do open, that's going to do research on AI. It's like, oh, you mean open AI part two? So now he has to walk away with an A plus, right? Like, you can't, you can't knock that.

And he's got the good guy label unless they come out with some new information that shows that he did something effed up, which something has to come out. There's only three options in my opinion. of how the story for Sam ends. Option A is, it's an unforgivable sin. I think that that is not likely, but it is possible that what he's did is just, well, you're

done. Option B is he goes back to OpenAI, become CEO. I think that was more likely than not going to happen, I think. But option C is he stays at Microsoft, and I think in a decade or five years, he becomes the CEO of Microsoft. Which is now worth $5 trillion or something at that point. Yeah, right now It's 2.7 trillion today.

Yeah, so he's going to turn out okay. So now this other guy, Ilya, he looks like a schmuck here. So he's, he's a loser here. He looks like,

he gets an F. He gets an F. There's a little bit of likeability with him where it's like, oh, you're just a brilliant scientist, artist,

turn who was, who was, you were, you were manipulated in here because you're just a scientist and you don't understand human interaction. So if he plays,

so we should explain. One thing, which is what are the possibilities of what Sam did that might put Sam in the wrong or illy in the right. So there is what you're calling the unforgivable sin, which I would say, by the way, not a great track record of anything being unforgivable. Let's say the really bad personal stuff could be one reason. Why?

In which case, I would say that's a completely fair reason to remove him. If they did an investigation, found out that was true, that they're in the right for removing him. That's defensible, but they just haven't said anything. reason number two is safety concern. So Ilya is famously, like the reason he's doing this is literally, he's worried about AGI. It doesn't want the world to end. And what initially people thought was Sam says all the right things about safety, but also Sam is like a capitalist.

He's an entrepreneur. He's a hard charging guy and he's running forward here. And maybe they're saying slow down. He's saying, no, we don't need to slow down. And they're saying, Sam, this is too risky. And he's saying, no, no, no, this is not risky. We got to move forward. That's what it looked like the situation was.

And it was made crazier by the fact that, I don't know if you saw this. He did an interview the day before. And he said something like this. He said, I've been lucky to be in the room four times now. The last one was just a couple weeks ago where I saw something that pushed the veil of ignorance forward and the frontier of technology to us. And it pushed the veil of ignorance away and the frontier of technology to us. So basically he's saying like there's been like three or four mind-blowing moments, you know,

about AI. I've been lucky enough to be in the room. The last one happened a couple weeks ago. Just wait until you see this, it's going to stun people. And so some people are like, yo, did they like create the monster super intelligent? Like, did they create AGI? You know, has AGI been achieved internally? And he like randomly post on Reddit.

not long ago, AGI has been achieved internally as like a joke, I guess. So some people said maybe they've stumbled into something and this guy's going too fast. And it's, you know, like the scientists around the nuclear bomb saying, no, no, no, we got to like destroy this thing or we got to like slow down. This is getting too crazy. That would have been the other reason, which would have been, again, defensible, especially given that Open AI's charter is specifically says, we're not about increasing shareholder value. we are about, you know, safely building AGI to benefit all of humanity. So that is their charter.

And if they thought this guy's moving too fast and putting that at risk, I would say they are completely in the right to do so if they believe that to be true. The bad part is, again, they've come out with no evidence that that is the case. They haven't explained themselves. So nobody believes them that that's true. The third reason. So, you know, you have the really bad thing. You have the safety argument.

And the third thing is essentially, it's just a power play. They're annoyed by him. They don't feel like he listens. They feel like he's getting all the credit or he wants fame and fortune. And power play, let's get this guy out of here. And we will, we get to run it on this thing. And that's like a jealousy driven thing. And I don't know which of those is the most true.

I don't know what you think. But, you know, it seems like, you know, none of those are perfect explanations. I think, I'll say what I think maybe later. But it's number three, I think. I think it's number three. let's talk about let's let's let's come back to the board but let's talk about emmitch here because you are one of the handful of people or you know however many people who have had a relationship with him and understand and so last night at 1 a.m. Ummit basically said I've been the guy that's been picked. He put out this really good tweet where he explained what he was doing. The funniest part I thought was he's had the job now for 12 minutes and he did a wonderful job of saying the word, are. He goes, our products are going to be this. Our team is going to do this. We are going, and it reminded me of that meme where there's a guy who goes, hey, I made this. And he hands

hands it to a stick figure. And the stick figure goes, you made this? And then the first guy leaves. And the stick figure looks at the thing that, and he goes, I made this. And it's the whole point about on the internet where people steal stuff. I actually think, I'm, it's a great guy. So I'm just, I'm just messing around. But I thought it was amazing how he's like, 12 minutes later, This is our company is going to do this. What do you think about Emmett in this role? He's been getting a lot of criticism because he previously shared online that he's like, I actually think we need to slow things down and a bunch of people are like,

this is ridiculous. Don't slow down, whatever. But he seems like a really thoughtful great CEO. Am I wrong? So, Emmett, you're right. I worked with Emmett for about two years. Got to sit with him, you know, in hundreds of meetings and see, you know, how he thinks and, you know, hang out with him, have beers.

and just kind of talk to him. He came on the podcast. I talked to him for an hour there about AI stuff. You always said he was really thoughtful. He's extremely intelligent in a broad way. So most people are not that intelligent that you meet. You meet some people that are like, you know, oh, they're like above average.

Then you meet some people, as you say, the oven burns hotter. And it's just very clear. Like he's just got more horsepower in his head than most people. I think that's great. I think, you know, as much as we like to say that like hard work, is what matters. Like, yeah, you know what also matters? Like,

intelligence is also a really strong attribute. It's like, you know, like, yeah, you know, Steph Curry's got great skills, but like LeBron is 6-8-250, right? Like, you know, size and speed matter. I hate when people downplay intelligence. And I'm like, guys, let's just admit some people are born smarter, just like some people are seven feet tall. There's a reason why 20% of Americans who are seven feet tall and below the age of 30

are in the NBA. You just, you're better. You're better at that particular thing. same with intelligence. Height helps you with basketball. Intelligence helps you with running companies, right? Like that's the thing. So Emmett is extremely intelligent.

He is amongst the most intelligent people I've ever met. So that's the first thing. Second thing is he's got depth and breadth. So a lot of people are really, really intelligent in one specific domain. It seems like this guy, Ilya, might be one of those where he's just extremely, extremely technically intelligent. But it seems like in the game of, you know, soft power. and politics and, you know, people and all that, he, you know, had a pretty boneheaded way of doing

this that didn't, didn't work out. To his own tweet, I deeply regret what I did. It was handled very poorly. So, you know, I think, you know, some people can really, really smart in one technical domain, but they're not, don't have a breadth of intelligence. I would say that Emmett is wide and deep. So he's technically very strong. He was a great engineer. They built Twitch, one of, you know, the best live-sharing products. It was him and this guy, Kyle. Kyle went on to build self-driving cars and Emmett ran Twitch for like, whatever, 18 years or some shit like that.

So, you know, between Justin TV and Twitch. And so he's very good technically, which is important because it's a deeply technical product. He said to me, the other thing, one thing when I was talking about AI, he's like, he's like, yeah, like, once you understand how transformers work, and I was like, well, let's stop there because I have no idea how transformers work. So, like, the rest of your sentence, because he said it like, Yeah, it's easy.

I mean, just once you get our Transformers work, it's like, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just anybody could go watch a video. We've had a couple smart people in this pod, and they've tried to use analogies because I'd be like, I don't understand what you're saying, and they're using an analogy. And I'm like, can you please use an analogy for your analogy? Like, I think we had a biology on here. And he was like referring to the Battle of the River of Tames in World War II in order to like describe crypto.

And I'm like, guy, I don't know what the Battle of Tains was. Like, this doesn't make sense to me. Right, right, exactly. You know, I'm asking for a lunch bowl over here and you're making gourmet. Yeah. Let's do this right. What's his soft skills like? Well, his soft skills, I would say when I experienced him, which was like, you know, whatever, he's been running the company for over a decade as CEO. I thought he was good, not great.

So, for example, I think he always knew what to do. Like if you caught him when he was calm, he would give great advice on the people side of how to handle. something. However, in the heat of the moment, he was prone to falling into like debates about semantics, about words, about data that would make people feel like shit. And he would like win the battle and lose the war type of thing with people. And so I don't think he was great with that. But I also think Twitch was like a bunch of very like kind of, it was a community product with a bunch of very like sort of woke people in the company that were like very touchy feel about stuff. I think OpenAI is going to be his type of people.

You know, like Emmett was better in meetings where all the people were engineers and product people. He was worse the more that the people were, you know, we got legal, PR, COBS, you know, marketing. You know, those meetings went worse for him, I thought. And so I think he'll have less of that here. But he also is like, ebology, like he'll reference the Battle of the Bulge. Like he'll reference, you know, well, the judicial. system in Ireland back in the 1500s, what they did was really interesting. It's like, dude, why do you know this? He's like, well, I've read up on all the judicial systems. I was very

interesting how governing has changed over time. It's like, that's your casual reading? He's like, yeah, like, I don't know. Is that, is that weird? And it's like, you know somebody's really good when they, when they don't even realize it's weird, when the thing they do is like really fucking weird. And so he has a very, very wide set of knowledge. Now, he's getting kind of labeled as a decel. I don't have you seen this. Like a decelerationist, meaning like somebody wants to slow things down.

Because as soon as he got names, basically a suit. Yeah, kind of like a suit or like a doomer. You know, like, oh, this is this guy's anti-technology, which is pretty silly.

And it's like, you know, if he could be technology, he would, you know, like he's a technologist through and through. They're calling the guy who invented Twitch a boomer,

basically. Yeah, it's stupid. And so, you know, a friend who, a mutual friend described it well. Because people dug up all his old tweets. And he said, if it opened it, if opening, if

it's at a 10 right now in terms of speed, you know, it should probably be at like a one or two because, you know, you just don't want this cat to get out of the bag. And so, um, I want to read you what he, uh, I have the transcript of what he said on our podcast, which when he came on about AI. So I asked him very simply. I said, is AI going to kill us all? And he goes, maybe. I go, it's interesting you say maybe it's going to kill us all because like you're pretty like pro technology and everything you're an optimist and he goes well it's because i'm an optimist that i'm scared if i was pessimist if i was like oh this ai thing's overhyped is technology not that impressive it's just a nice little magic trick it's it's it's nothing real underneath it if i was pessimistic i would be less worried i'm optimistic i am extremely impressed with how these work and i see a pathway where this is going to get better very fast and at some point it's going to be able to self-improve that's very scary because we don't know what happens on the other side of that. He's like, it's because I'm optimistic. And the second thing he said was, he goes, here's the analogy. You know, in biology, there's now, like, ways that you can synthetically do things.

We know we can edit genes, for example, and we can, like, add an extra leg to a sheep. Or we can, like, modify a virus. This was, like, you know, COVID, right? Like, you can modify a virus and make it more spreadable. And we all saw with COVID, how dangerous that capability is that, like, this thing, you know, if this leaked from a lab, that's really, really bad. Like, you know, that was a big mistake that technology made that like, you know, fucked up the world for a few years. And so he's like, you know, we have regulation. And I think everybody kind of agrees, we should maybe not go super fast and make it easy for somebody to like print smallpox in their home, right? Like, we should maybe not give that capability

to everybody. And maybe we should like slow down to make sure there's some oversight to we, so that we don't do something really bad that like creates a super virus. He's like, people get that when it comes to biology. They don't really get that when it comes to AI. He's like with AI, here's the thing. AI is really good at like the one thing you need in order to be really good at AI at developing AI. He's like AI can code.

It can write code. It can read everything there is to know about a subject in an afternoon, become absolute world expert at it. And then it can translate that into action. It can translate to writing code. It can also design chips. Yeah, it doesn't do either of those two things perfectly right now. It's not amazing at writing code and it's not amazing at designing chips,

but it can do them. It's within the zone of things that AI can be good at, the type of things that AI can be good at, which means that over time it's going to be able to write code that designs AI and design chips that make AI better. And once that thing can improve itself, it's going to get fast, it's going to get really amazing, really fast,

faster than anyone can expect. And maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it all works out, but also maybe it's, maybe it doesn't. And that's like, he's like, even if I think the probability of a really bad thing happening is low, it's, the consequences are so bad. We're not just talking about like a virus that's kind of like, like, screws up your computer or like gets like, you know, even like a pandemic that gets people sick. We're talking about this could destroy like, he says, we could destroy all of the

value with the light cone, which I don't even know what the light cone is, but I don't want that. Right. So he's describing like, even if it's low probability, we should just be really, really careful about that and like make sure we don't screw the whole thing up. And a friend reached out so one thing. They go, they go, every saying like Emmett's going to want to like slow this down and stop it. He's like, no, no, Emmett's smart. Emmett knows the game theory of this, the prisoner's dilemma.

If you go too slow, somebody else will create AGI before you because you slow down to zero. So somebody else will get there before you who may not share your moral beliefs around safety. So you can't go too slow where other. people get there first you don't share your safety views, but you can't go so fast that you don't actually build a safely. There's a middle ground to seek. And so I think that's the best description of this where people are trying to label him as one thing. And knowing what I know about him,

that's just not true. Well, let's go like the rapid fire of like some other story points. And we'll make that quick. And then also we've been there of what we think is going to happen. One quick story point for you, if you like drama. We got to do final grades before we do stories. final grade. So the board, what do you graded the board? Oh, they're fucking losers. So the worst. They look horrible. They're going to get... You got an F. If it stands for a fucking loser.

Yeah. Yeah. Is there an NFL? They're the worst. I mean, it doesn't matter what the truth is. It's all about perception. And they look like the worst. Including Adam DeAngelo, the founder of Cora. Right now, he looks horrible. So F. They get an F. Do you agree?

Yeah. Agreed. Ebbett. What do you give Emmett? He's 12 minutes on the job here. TBD, C. He's actually, actually, it's actually like a D or C at the moment. He's getting dragged, I think, which isn't fair. But no, he looks like he's a loser here because of perception. Right.

I mean, he's taking the hero's job. Like, it's hard to look good, regardless of how amazing he is, right? Right. And what about Satya, Microsoft? He gets a B. He looks pretty good. I mean, he's the man. I mean, he's kind of made a resource.

for Microsoft. I think that, I think there's a real world where Bing actually catches up to Google in terms of search. And Microsoft is going to become just an even bigger company than they already are. So, yeah, I mean, he's a man. He's a, him and Sam are the masterminds. I got to give him an A plus. The dude, you know, mobilized over the weekend. And before the markets opened and could hit Microsoft stock, he had basically acquired open AI for negative 100.000. billion dollars. He aquired open AI, which is incredible. And so now he got Open AI out of the nonprofit, capped profit structure. It's just super for profit inside Microsoft. He got the key talent,

you know, Sam, Greg, all of the key people, 600 of the key people. And now they just own the whole thing instead of 49%. That's an A plus. He crushed it on this one. He's the man. So let's do the storylines. Yeah, here's one quick storyline.

Have you heard of Fairchild conductors? Do you know what that is? I've heard of it, but I'm not a history guy. So what's the story? Isn't there something like the traitorous eight or something? What is that? Yeah, so basically there was a big company called, I think it was called Shockley Conductors and they made conductors,

computer chips in the 60s in Silicon Valley. People were pissed off at the guy who owned it, William Chockely, I think his name is. He was brilliant, but just a pain in the ass. And so these eight guys said, hey, you got to bail or we're bailing. And the guy, the sea goes, see ya. And so these eight people went and started Fairchild, which was basically, the equivalent is like invidia, but back then in 1960. And it basically first Silicon Valley, right? That was like the, that was the seed round of Silicon Valley. Yeah. And they were famous. Their culture was famous because they were casual. So it was like

where nerds could come and be casual and where like the best actually, Best idea is actually won. And that was where the whole, like, culture of Silicon Valley arguably started there. And then the offshoot of Fairchild conductors was basically IBM. So, IBM was founded by one of the founders of Fairchild. Andy Grove, the guy, the famous manager of, I think he was the CEO of IBM. He came from there. The founders of Sequoia Capital, Kleiner and Perkins, I think, might have spun out.

I mean, like, basically, there's just all these people. But the story of the treacherous eight is what they're called. called is very similar to this story. And so if you're interested in this type of stuff, and you could actually go and read that book, and you could see a lot of similarities between what is going on now. So this is like our version of that. And so it's going to end

well, I think, for Greg and Sam because it ended really nicely for the treacherous eight. So that's an interesting thing to look into. My prediction is that they unwind this whole thing and they revert back to Open AI, by the way. That's my like, as it hasn't happened yet, but I think the final

step now, now that I'llia signed the pledge being like, I quit and I'm also going to go work there. It's like, what is the point of even having the Open AI entity if 600 of the people, including all of the leaders, are gone? I don't think they want to be inside Microsoft necessarily. So I think what's no, no, no, no. I think this was the final straw. And by the end of, I bet by the end of day today, they get a whoopsie daisy undo on the whole thing.

And Sam is back as CEO of OpenAI. and they just, the board quits and they get a new board. That's my prediction, by the way. And I think, doesn't even make sense. I believe that that prediction, I think, is the same. I think there's long-tail predictions here, which is new startups aren't going to want to have board of directors. I actually think that's the wrong takeaway.

Brian Halligan from HubSpot, he wrote, he's like, no, the takeaway shouldn't be not have a board. The takeaway should be have a good board. And I think so, but I think that potentially, like the governance structure of companies might actually change. significantly because people are going to be like they're going to have PTSD from just hearing this story. And that actually is going to have downstream effects that are quite large. And in a weird way, it could even impact like the venture capital industry. I think that is

a real possibility. I totally agree. And I think it's so stupid. So right now, there's so many startups that are reading their governing documents about the board and thinking through, do I need to change my board? Is my public service? announcement. Don't worry, bro. You're not open AI. You're not Sam Altman. And your board is also not these schmucks either. And nobody cares. And like, you know, for a startup, like, don't worry about your governance structure right now. Like, you should be doing these standard vanilla things of, you know, put competent people there and then don't worry about it too much. Like, you need product market fit. You don't have this problem in the same way that like when you hear what's going on

with like Uber or Facebook. It's like you're not Uber and Facebook. You don't have the same problems that they have. Don't suddenly start spending your energy over there and take your eye off the actual main problem that you need product market fit. You need growth. I think the takeaway here is OpenAI's board was stupid. That was actually a strategic mistake.

It seems like on Sam Altman's part. Also, I think the whole nonprofit stick, that was stupid too. TBD, if I'm going to be right on that, but as of now, It would have been a lot simpler. Maybe if this is just a board or this is just a normal board where they have equity in the company. They started with a good board. They started with Elon Musk and Reid Hoffman and all these like legit players on their board. And then one by one, they all quit.

So basically like Elon quit because things weren't like they weren't listening to him and he took his ball and tried to run home. Reed Hoffman quit because he started a competitor. Another guy quit because he wants to run for president. Another person quit. It's like basically five of the original board members quit for different reasons, either starting competitors or conflict of interest or running for president or whatever. And this is what they got left with. Yeah.

So hopefully that gets changed. Any other takeaways? I think what were you saying about this was the best and the worst of us? Yeah, that was kind of my big picture takeaway. Like I feel like this was the best of Silicon Valley and the worst of Silicon Valley all in the same weekend. You know, the best I thought was things like, you know, what Greg did when he was like, yo, I'm out too. it, even though they tried to, they wanted to retain him. They weren't firing him.

It's like, yeah, that's a real co-founder, right? That's a, that's a ride or die, sort of ducks fly together moment. And I thought that was, that was badass. I thought that was the best of us. And then I thought the worst of us was like this stupid board that has no skin in the game, that doesn't know how to communicate, that didn't, like, handle this well, just fumbling and bubbling and removing a founder from there, removing basically the greatest founder alive, you know, outside of Elon Musk.

from their company that they created for what seems like no reason and if there is a reason you gotta like say it and even if you say it in a way that wasn't like doesn't get you sued like you know maybe that's why they're not saying anything but you have to at least tell your team you have to give more than

what they did they handle it better than what they did and if it was so bad then don't negotiate with him to come back right like if it was that bad that he shouldn't have 24 hours later been in discussions to come back you know so the board I thought was you know, it's the worst of us.

I thought, you know, Twitter was alive and popping, and it really did feel like it was the Silicon Valley group chat. That was kind of the best of us. And the worst of it was like, you know, it felt like gossip girls all weekend. And that's kind of lame. And there's a bunch of, you know, like speculation and wasted energy. And, you know, like, I saw these Twitter spaces going on for hours and hours of people

just like discussing, like, you know, it was a real housewives episode and they can't believe that. Jenna said that, right? Like, it just seemed like, you know, it wasn't. seemed like gossip, and I thought that was a waste of time. You know, I thought there was a whole bunch of things that were kind of like the best and the worst showed themselves in the same weekend. You know, maybe, you know, it could be that there actually is a legitimate, you know,

crazy safety concern and like this guy was going too fast. And, you know, this Ilya guy was maybe the hero and was pumping the brakes, even though it screwed up his own economics if he really was standing for something he believed in, right? Like, it could be that it was that it was that it was a jealousy power play and take him out, right? we don't know, but I just thought there was a whole bunch of best and worse. Another one was like just this instant labeling, like, these like tribes. Like I don't know if you've seen this like E slash ACC thing.

Is it the E cell and D cell? Yeah, what is that? Basically, there's a whole bunch of people in the Twitter bio that hit E slash ACC. I haven't seen this for months. I have no way to, I didn't even know what the hell this was. But it's except you're an effective accelerationist, right? So it's basically like kind of a play on the effective. altruism or whatever altruism that

Sam Bankman-Fried was doing that's pretty stupid I think one is basically like pedal to the metal you know tech forward progress forward technology optimist and it's like that's the cool club to be in and then anybody who's like saying hey slow down you're a D-cell which is like you know it's the D word basically it's a slur it's an insult and to me this was again it's the worst of us it's the

it's like people in Silicon Valley make fun of politics. It's like, oh, I'm not left or right. It's not that simple. It's not Republican, Democrat. I'm not, I don't fall into these stupid party, you know, tribes that are just blindly, you know, following the herd. And it's like, we're doing the same thing.

This e-cell, desal shit is the same thing as Democrat, Republican, red, blue, left, right. It's an oversimplification of a massive oversimplification of what's going on. And so I thought that was kind of the worst of us, too. final prediction. My prediction is in the next 24 hours, all this is going to be undone, and things will be back to normal. That's my prediction. Is that yours too? Maybe we'll give it 48 hours, but I think at this rate, 24 hours. When I was in second grade, my class had a field trip, and they said, they told the parents, I said, hey, you need 20 bucks to come to this field trip. So my mom gives me $20 in the morning and I go and I'm excited about the field trip. I don't think

I'd ever been on a field trip. It was my first. And they're like, hey, okay, put your thing over here, give me your signed waiver, and put your 20 bucks. And I'm like looking around. I'm like, where did my 20 bucks go? I was right. This is my desk. It's not here. I'm looking under the table on the desk. I check my backpack. I'm like, what the hell? Somebody took my 20 bucks. I can't go in the field trip now. And so I go to the teacher. And I'm like, miss, like, somebody stole my $20. And she's like, oh, my God, stealing. Steely money from a kid. like, that's not okay. And she's like,

you're sure? I'm like, yeah, it's right there. And so, she turns the world upside down. She starts, she's like, hey, blows the whistle.

She's like, everybody, sit down. Who has the money? And it's just silence. Nobody raises their hand. And she's like, okay, we'll try this a different way. I'm going to put a jar outside

and we're going to walk out one by one and I want the $20 to be in the jar by the time this is done. No harm, no foul. Everybody walks out. Everybody walks in. she comes back, jars empty.

And she's pissed now. She's like, okay, I gave you a chance to do this clean. I gave you a chance to do this publicly. Now we're not going on the field trip, guys. Guess what? And I'm like, oh, my God, this is getting the field trip canceled. This is crazy. Not just for our class.

She tells the teacher next door. She's like, we don't earn, we didn't earn this because there's been, you know, one of our core values has been betrayed here. And where was the $20? And then I'm like, I got to go to the bathroom. And I get up, and I'm like,

can I go to the bathroom? She's like, yeah, sure. I get up. And I feel this like scratchy feeling in my sock. And I'm like, I reached down and I'm like, I put the 20 bucks in my sock this morning.

That's right. I just remember. But here I am. You're like a drug dealer, dude. What do you? Here I am. And now I'm like, what do I do?

I'm like, the class is going to be so mad at me. If they realize this is in my sock the whole time, The teacher's going to be so mad at me if she realizes that I accidentally did this. I didn't mean for all this to happen. And so I went to the restroom. I took the 20 bucks.

Put it in the toilet. And I flushed the toilet. I went back to my seat. Did you really? Did you really do that? Is that really how that ended? No, that made for a better story. But I did hand it to her.

And she laughed at all. And then we went on the field trip. But I thought it would be a better story. But that thing did happen. with the sock and it wasted half of the field trip day. And that's all I feel, Ilya feels right now where he's like, I did not mean for all this to happen.

Like, this got way bigger than I thought this was going to get. And, uh, whoops, can I just like give you this 20 bucks? We pretend this never happened. And that's what he's trying to do right now.

And, uh, you know, more power to him. I've been there. I feel you. All right. Well, we're going to see what happens.

Um, that's the pod. I feel like I can rule. the world I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like no days off on the road let's travel never looking back.