My First Million - The 5 Most Interesting Businessmen Alive...

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

Episode 585:  Sam Parr ( https://twitter.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://twitter.com/ShaanVP ) talk about the 5 most outrageous, eccentric, and mysterious businessmen alive right now.   Want to see Sam and Shaan’s smiling faces? Head to the MFM YouTube Channel and subscribe - http://tinyurl.com/5n7ftsy5 Show Notes: (0:00) 5 - James Bond with Wifi, Pavel Durov (12:16) 4 - The Russian Richard Brandon, Oleg Tinkov (22:08) 3 - The Walking Middle Finger, Sean Parker (38:06) 2 - The Guy Who Won The Game And Walked, Tom Anderson (45:40) 1 - The Israeli Great Gatsby, Aviv Nevo — Links: • Pavel Durov on Twitter - https://twitter.com/durov • VK - https://vk.com/vk • Pavel Durov on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/durov/ • Telegram - https://telegram.org/ • Napster - https://www.napster.com/us • David Choe on Howard Stern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS6awjpIimw • Opportunity zones - https://eig.org/opportunity-zones/about-ozs/ • Get HubSpot's Free AI-Powered Sales Hub: enhance support, retention, and revenue all in one place https://clickhubspot.com/sym — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano

These are the five most interesting businessmen alive. These are going to be eccentric billionaires, people who not only have a crazy business life, but also have a crazy personal life and have just done a variety of wild shit. These are people that they should be making movies about. So we got a list. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. Can I start off with number five?

We're going to go five to one, one being who we crowned. as the most interesting man alive. The criteria for this, by the way, is they got to be interesting. So not just rich, not just successful, but fascinating, interesting. That can be good and bad. They have to be men. We have a separate list coming for women. And they have to be alive.

So nobody who is some dead historical figure. Fair enough? Yeah. You're going to kick it off? Yeah, I'll kick it off. Okay. So number five is a guy who won the game twice. And on his way out, the second time is just flipping the bird to everybody.

And this is a guy named Pavel Dura. I call this guy James Bond with Wi-Fi. If you see this guy's Instagram, you'll know why I said it. He looks like James Bond. He travels around the world. He's an international man of mystery. But he built his claim to fame as using his laptop, using Wi-Fi. So this guy's basically the Russian Mark Zuckerberg.

It's even more impressive than Zucker. So when he was young, he built the Facebook of Russia. and it was called VK. And what's cool about this is two things. Number one, he actually beat Facebook. So there were many countries in the world where somebody built the Facebook of Brazil, the Facebook of Africa, the Facebook of Europe. There's been tons of these.

And in every single one of them, the end game was, no, no, no, Facebook is the Facebook of Brazil. Facebook is the Facebook of India. And Facebook dominated everywhere. The one place they couldn't dominate was Russia. And in an interview, Zuck was talking to Sam Altman and he even said, he's like, God, the only ones we could never beat were the Russians. He was like, it was insane.

He's like, we would make a change. And literally like 12 minutes later, they would have that update on their, on their side. Like, if we moved a pixel, they moved that pixel. And he's like, these guys were just the most prolific copiers we've ever seen. And we just could not figure out how are we ever going to overtake them if they're the world's smartest mathematicians and programmers who have dedicated, who are dedicated 24-7 to beating us or cloning us and doing exactly what we do if they can't come up with a better idea.

And so he gave them a hat tip. So he creates VK. It becomes the Facebook of Russia. He won. But he had to sell it because one day, the Russian government approaches him and says, Pavel, we need some information. He's like, cool, what do you need to know?

We need some information about all your users and what they're saying. He's like, uh, what? Why? And they're like, well, there's been some users who are saying some anti-government things. as you know, that's not how we do shit around here. So give us some names and we'll make sure that they get quiet. And while you're at it, drop your pants and bend over and cough. So he doesn't want to do it.

And so what Pavel does, and by the way, this is not like, you know, this is not just a business move. This is not a lawyer sending you a cease and desist. When the Russian government comes knocking, this is a pretty serious, there's serious consequences for what you decide to do after that. You comply? Great. If you don't comply, there's not only consequences for those people they were after. Now there's consequences for you. And so what he does is he not only doesn't comply, he flips the bird.

So he goes and he posts on VK, the government request, the memo that they, the secret like kind of letter that they sent him telling him what they needed. He said, they're asking for your data. I'll never do it. And here's my official, they asked, you know, here's my official response. And he posted a picture of a dog ring a hoodie. It has this famous picture of a dog in a hoodie that he posts. He's like, here's what I have to say about this. And he just posts a dog with a hoodie. And so

immediately, he's now in trouble. They raid his apartment. He ends up losing this company, has to flee the country, never allowed back in Russia. It costs him basically everything. His entire life gets completely uprooted.

And it's not like he was just like, you know, a guy. He had something to lose here. And so at the end of all this, he says, and I would do it all again without hesitation. And I love that. I love this guy. And what he does, he now gets kicked out of Russia. He loses his company.

He does get $300 million because he sells it on the way out to some other guy who is going to comply. So I don't know fully if I, if I, you know, what happened to your principles? I'm not sure what happened after that. But whatever. He gets $300 million. And he, he hasn't fully left Russia yet. But he's like kind of like figuring out his way out.

But he's like, dude, I can't even message. my brother who to tell them like what you know what we're going to do because they'll just see these messages like they want to see my our message they're going to see all these messages so his brother who is a double phd in math is like you know what let's make a encrypted protocol encrypted messaging protocol so that we can communicate like this is bullshit that they can just read all our goddamn messages and this becomes the precursor to telegram which is now one of the biggest messaging apps in the world so this guy not only invented facebook He then got kicked.

It's like if the Winkle Fosses had beat up Mark in the locker room, took Facebook from him, kicked him off Harvard campus, and then he goes and creates WhatsApp, because that's basically what he did. How big is Telegram? I know it's huge, but I don't use it. Do you use it?

I love it. It's probably my favorite messaging app of all messaging apps. It's an incredible product. It's got a billion users, dude. What's so good about it other than the encryption thing, which is huge? I mean, the encryption thing is huge. It's just like really well made. The app is really fast.

It works really well. It's got a ton of features. You can do a broadcast channel where it's like Twitter and you're broadcasting to a bunch of followers. You can just message each other. You can do huge groups. You can have admins. You can send like stickers and memes and like you can send a ton of different types of messages. It's a really well made app.

And has a billion people using it? Yeah, about a billion users now. Last I think I heard was like 800 million, but like I think recently he said something like we have about a billion users. Never runs ads. He's refused to sell any equity in the company. He took about a billion dollars of debt. But he never sells any equity. He's just him and his brother own the whole thing.

He's got 30 full-time employees. So he's got 30 employees running a service that a billion people use all around the world. And every government attacks them and tries to break their encryption or ban them because no government wants this. Nobody government wants the citizens to be able to speak freely. He is the sole director, equity holder,

and he's the sole product manager. He works directly with every engineer and designer himself. He has no HR. He only recruits people through something called contest.com, which is a contest platform where he puts up engineering challenges and the people who are the best at cracking his engineering challenges get hired, they get an offer to come work at Telegram. Is it a Russian company?

No, he's like, it's crazy. Everyone calls us a Russian company. We have no office in Russia. We have no employees in Russia. We have no servers in Russia. But the media just will be like, oh, Russian founder, blah, blah, blah. He's like, dude, he basically for a while he just moved around the world every three months living in different Airbnbs.

And then finally he now settled in Dubai. This guy's worth about $15 billion. So he's the richest expat in Dubai. He's one of the top 150 richest men in the world. And then you go look at his Instagram. You're going to love this dude. The guy's ripped. He's absolutely ripped.

And every photo, there's never another human being in any photo with him. Every photo is him alone with his shirt off doing something manly as hell. And it's hilarious. All the photos look AI generated. It's like if I said, hey, generate a rich, billionaire. living in Dubai who is on the Brian Johnson Protocol and wants to become Instagram famous. This is what Dali would give me.

He's literally on a pirate ship on some of these photos. Yeah, I have a bunch. We're going to show them on YouTube. If you're listening to this, you should go to YouTube for this episode. We're going to show a bunch of things. People's houses and crazy shit. Another quote I love from him.

So, yeah, he says, they're like, you're a billionaire, billionaire, billionaire. He's like, dude, there's billionaire things like a little overplayed. He's like, yes, it's true. I've had a few hundred million dollars of both dollars and Bitcoin in a bank account for 10 years, and I've never touched it. He goes, yeah, that's true. But he's like, but I don't own any jets or yachts or mega mansions.

Like, I don't do any of that shit. I would rather make decisions that would influence how a billion people are going to communicate, rather than sitting there choosing the color of the seats in my house that only me and my relatives are ever going to see. That's amazing. I read another interview with him where he goes, I went to San Francisco to see if I wanted to open an office there. And I met with Jack Dorsey and it was great. And I went to the Twitter office, which the Twitter office is in the epicenter of kind of bad stuff or crime is

happening in San Francisco. I used to live down the block from it. And he said, after the meeting, I was walking around and three guys tried to mug me. And the interviewer was like, well, how to go? He goes, blood was spilled. But he doesn't say like, who's blood? He just said, there was blood. Well, he was like, yeah, three guys tried to see my phone. I fought off the robbers. And then he posted it on Twitter. He's like, my goal was I was trying to tweet out. I just hung out with Jack Dorsey because Jack Dorsey made Twitter. He's like, that's what I was trying to do on my phone when they did this.

So he posts a picture of his bloody knuckles reaching for a book, which is just a hilarious thing. He goes, and this is the tweet. He goes, just got to a fight with guys who tried to grab my phone near Mission 980. Scary neighborhood, question mark. Not for a Russian. Yeah, this guy's pretty bad. I like the idea that San Francisco is like the nice quaint neighborhood in Russia. It's the nice, clean family, family area of Russia.

Yeah, I read that. And it was so funny. He's clearly manicuring his social presence, but I think I believe it. Yeah, the guy's amazing. And he just flexes on everybody. His Instagram is just a pure flex. Yeah, I mean, he's awesome. This guy's a good one.

How does Telegram make money? Or do they? They basically don't make money. They've made, I read somewhere. I don't know if this is 100% true. I'm trying to find it. But like two things. One, they take donations.

And so I read something that they've had over a billion dollars in donations from users. And that's been part of what keeps it going. And like, you know, it's 30 people. And then it's the server costs. Right. So it's like, you know, there's burn. But it's not like he's running a 3,000 person or 30,000 person company. In addition to that, he raised a billion dollar debt bond, which is basically like a pre-IPO coupon.

So he was basically like, we're going to make money some. day and we need money now to get there. He had offers to sell 10% at a $30 billion valuation. He turned it down. So he turned down $3 billion. Then they came back and said, we'll buy 10% out of $40 billion valuation. So $4 billion. He turned it down. And he said, I don't want to sell any equity. I'm scared of what an investor will do for this. He did a crypto token back when crypto was really hot. And he raised over a billion dollars for their crypto coin. But then the SEC came after him and was like, this was basically like you were selling equity. Like you called it a token and as a utility, but like this is equity.

So we had to return a bunch of money and that that token project never got off the ground because he had raised. And I think the minimum at the time, because I was looking into investing in it is you had to buy in chunks of minimum 20 million. Oh my God. So basically people were forming syndicates. It was like, oh, you want to come in for 500K? All right, cool. We're trying to get to 20 million so we could buy some of the telegram token because you had an app that actually had a ton of usage. the most brilliant, you know,

like engineering team probably that exists on Earth or, you know, one of the top 20 engineering teams on Earth. And now they were going to do a token to try to make money and, you know, figure out like basically you'd be able to use the token to do things inside the app. So anyways, that's kind of some of the things they've tried. But, you know, he has, you know, quote, unquote, some plan of how they're going to make money

that doesn't involve you selling user data. This guy's really cool. All right, that's a good one. Yeah. Who's number four? Who do you got? All right. So my goal.

with this was to pick people who you have no idea who they are and hopefully most of our audience has no idea who they are either. And so we did not talk before this. So it's just a coincidence that my guy is also Russian. I call him the Russian Richard Branson. His name is Oleg-L-E-O-L-E-G. So you'll have to Google him to see what he looks like. But Oleg, O-L-E-G, and then T-I-N-K-O-V. So he grew up in a mining family. So very humble beginnings, but he goes to the city because he wants to experience freedom. And he gets into cycling. For some reason, he's into cycling and he goes abroad for a bike race and he sees someone wearing blue jeans. And this is in the 80s in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union's about to crumble and become Russia. And he starts bringing home these blue

jeans and selling them. And he's like, all right, it looks like people in Russia really want this like Western fashion. And so he opens up a chain of stores where he starts selling blue jeans, but then everything else. Perfume, VCRs, electronics. This is right in 89, 90, where the Soviet Union is crashing and these people actually want to be able to buy stuff from Western countries.

And he kills it. And so in his early 20s, he sells that business and he makes something like $7 million. And then he does something that you'd expect him to do. He starts a ravioli business. Is this guy just watching commercials in the States? He's like, Levi's, got it.

Okay, next one. Ravioli. Cool. we'll do that too. Well, what he does is he goes to America every once in a while and he like, he says he goes every five years to learn what's popular in America, like different advertising, whatever, and he like basically brings that to Russia. Have you ever heard of the phrase, it's a, it's a word

Babababugge. I can't even say it, right? It means Russia, it's like a Russian grandmother. It's like when you think of like Fiddler on the roof, it's like a Boushka, yeah, Babushka. It's like a Russian grandmother with like a scarf over her head. So typically raviolis, they have a different word for him in Russia, but the raviolis were made by that type of person. And it was like a comfort

food. And so he gets the idea where he's like, we're going to do something sexy. We're going to make this like really stand out. And so he buys this huge ad. And it's just a woman's bare ass. And it says something like ravioli is not made by your grandmother. It's like a woman's bare ass with flour on it. As if I guess this woman's ass is pounding out the flour. I don't know. It's just kind of weird what do you think about. I don't want ravioli like that. I don't understand, but I'm hungry. Yeah. But it takes off.

It works. This business works. He eventually sells it for $21 million. So his next thing is that he's in California, and he actually meets with Dan Gordon from Gordon Beersh. That's interesting to you and I, because Gordon Beersh was a microbrewery outside of San Francisco. One of the co-founders, or at the time, CEOs,

was actually Lorenzo Fertita from UFC. And he starts seeing this trend in the 90s where these, microbreweries are quite popular. And so he opens up a microbrewery in Russia. And he calls it Tinkoff breweries. And it's kind of like Sam Adams beer. We're at the time beer in Russia was like not that good tasting. And he goes, we're actually going to charge four or five times the price of normal beer.

And we're going to make this thing very Americanized. And he says, like, he's got this famous phrase where he says, beer and freedom go great together. And he's all into like freedom and like not in line with what Russia wants him to do. And so he starts this brewery. It takes off. So they started in 1997, but by 2003, it's doing 35 million in sales. Two years later, 2005, it's doing $200 million in sales. And that year, he sells it for $200 million, which is a huge sum. He owns most of the company. So he just sells his company. He's immediately in Necker Island with

Richard Branson. And Olog is talking to Richard. He goes, Richard, I was in America recently. I moved there for just like a few months. And I was able to get a credit card. It was so amazing how easy, I got a credit card. We need this in Russia. And Richard's like, you should start it. And so that's exactly what he does, like six months after selling his beer company. He starts this credit card company. It's called Tinkoff Bank, I guess, is how it translate, or Bank of Tinkoff. And he, for some reason, names everything after himself because he's great at marketing and his name is popular. And so he starts this bank with $70 million of his own money. And he actually buys a bank. And the reason why this guy is interesting is because, or this bank is interesting, is we know what

Mercury is. We know what a bunch of these neo banks are. He beat all of them. He started this in 2005. And it gets huge to the point where Goldman invest into it. He invests $70 million of his own money. A bunch of people invest in it and it becomes massive. And so the business takes off. It's up until recently, 2021, it was the second largest issuer of credit cards in Russia. It was the largest digital bank in the world. And the idea being like, we don't need branches. We don't need any of that. It's just all going to be online and we'll send you your card. And so it goes public and his stake in it is worth $10 billion. And here's where the story gets kind of crazy. Just like Pavel, Russia does not like Oleg. He talks a ton of shit. Basically, at one point when

they invade the Ukraine, he's very anti the war. He just says, Putin, you're full of shit. All these oligarchs in Russia, you're all full of shit. He tweets us out. He goes, the generals, they wake up with a hangover and realize they have a shitty army. How can the army be any good when the rest of our country is also shit? Like he says these things on, he tweets this out. He says all this crazy stuff. And eventually they delist Tinkoff Bank. So it's no longer public. And he loses most all of his money. And so at this point, he's worth, I think he was able to like force sell some of his shares and he walked away with like $200 million. And he's now he has leukemia and he's dying. He's to die soon. And he basically is still talking mad shit. He says, like, they wanted to punish me

for this. And to that, I say, fuck off. I want to die with good karma and for people to remember me for being strong and fair. And so he's paid the price for being outspoken and he's still being outspoken. And he's been completely screwed, but he's doing a good job of kind of still sticking it to the man. The other thing that he's done, he's done really well at challenging the status quo. The reason I have found this guy is he owned a very successful cycling team. cycling is not a very popular sport. I'm one of the few guys that watches it, but he did a great job of, like, getting into the cycling game, and he, like, criticized the tour to France for tons of stuff. They eventually changed tons of rules. And finally, he's a shithead in the best possible way. So there's this

famous story where for his microbreweries, he wanted to name the street that the brewery was on, Tinkoff. He wanted it to have the same name of his restaurant. And so what he did was he got a, basically, a version of an encyclopedia. And he made a fake, Encyclopedia that said years ago in the 1700s, there was a brewery on this street named Tinkoff. And so we need to do it justice by naming the street after it because this is a historical thing. And so they named the street after it. Years later, he admits he made one page in an encyclopedia and just put it in there. And they totally went for it.

And so he's done tons of things like this. And he's going to die soon. He says that he basically has said he's going to die soon, and he's donated what's left of his big fortune. It's now a small fortune to leukemia. And so he's young. And if you look him up, he's famous for dyeing his hair. He kind of looks like Richard Branson, actually. And so he's very Richard Branson-esque.

He dyes his hair purple because that's the color for his cycling team. He's pretty eccentric, very unique guy. He also wrote a book, but the book's hard to read because it's, it was translated. but he's a columnist, and he writes a lot, so you can read a lot of his work. Speaking of which, this is my cue for you. You know, books are cool, but books are a little heavy for me. If any of these people wanted to put their thoughts out there, they would have great newsletters.

And if they wanted a great newsletter, they would use a great newsletter platform like Beehive. And that is our thrill of the show this week. The most interesting men in the world, if they were ever going to write a newsletter, they would write it on Beehive. Back to the show. Anyway, so what do you think of Oleg? He's an interesting guy. You've never heard of them, I think.

Fascinating. Never heard of them. Well done. You got me with that one. I like that. Yeah, this is super cool. I also like just the idea, the move of, I'm just going to export Western culture.

I feel like this is a common blueprint for coming up with really big businesses, which is you go to Japan, you observe Japanese culture. You find the most interesting bits of it. And then you export that culture to a different country that doesn't quite yet have it, but most humans are pretty similar. And you can sort of create the demand, especially when some cultures just tend to be net exporters. Like, I think the U.S. is a net exporter in, you know, movies and entertainment and, you know, has certain strong values like freedom and whatever else. So you can, like, use those in bringing that to a place that's sort of, you know, deficient in those

areas. And so I think that's just a cool model, is exporting culture from one place to another. And that's what he did. He went and studied business for some classes at Berkeley. And he would just see what's going on in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, what's interesting, what's neat. And he was inspired by that. And he said, every five years, I go to America to learn these things. And I don't want to bring them back. But huge coincidence that we both chose Russian guys, Russian expats, sort of. I guess that kind of tells our stance. I'm sticking it to the man, sticking it to Putin. All right. My next, I think I'm going to do a back-to-back here because I have a, one extra one that you do. So number three for me, I call him the walking middle finger.

Number three is Sean Parker. And Sean Parker is a fascinating guy. So a lot of people know him because in the social network movie, Justin Timberlake is supposed to be Sean Parker. And he's this like super charismatic kind of know it all guy that, you know, tells them to drop the the in the Facebook. Just make it just Facebook. It's cleaner, right? Do you think that's real? Yeah. So that is real. a lot of that role is not how Sean Parker actually is. He's like, they were like, what do you think the movie got right? He's like, well, they got some of the stuff right. But the most of the character, he's like, I'm not like Justin Timberlick.

He's like, I'm not cool and smooth. He's like, I'm weird and insecure. He's like, I'm a lot more eccentric. Like they made him seem like cool and normal. I'm not cool and normal. He's like, I might be cool, but I'm done it on normal. And I want to just tell you a little bit about this guy. So one of the commonalities I had when I was searching for,

for people like this. And you'll see the next guy I have has the same story is that when he was in his teens, was a hacker, hacked into something and got arrested. So I don't know if you know this, but basically when he was a kid, he was 16 years old and he basically got tracked down by the FBI because he hacked into like a Fortune 500 companies network. And they were like, hey, he got offered. He eventually got offered a job with like, I think CIA.

He turned it down. He was like, no, no, no. I'm like, you know, I'm on the rebel side. You guys are the, are the authority. I'm rebel. And so he creates, of course, Napster. And Napster is just like one of the coolest slash biggest middle finger companies that I think has ever existed. You know, obviously people today, there's probably some generation of people today who don't even know what Napster is.

But Napster was like the first place before Spotify, the first place where you could just go and you could just like get access to all of the world's music. And then movies and other things too. But like really music was the main thing. And it was illegal. You could upload the songs you had. Other people could download those songs. And it was music file sharing. And it got mega, mega popular.

And then it got sued out of existence. And to like let the young people know, this was game changing. I think you and I must have been in grade school, like 12 and 11 and 14 when this came out. This was such a big deal. It got to the point where artists would even release fake music that were on, remember that when they were scrambled? After 10 seconds, they get scrambled because they want the fake song to go viral. Yep, yep, exactly. Or like comedians, I remember who it was. It was like Dane Cook.

Yeah, Dane Cook. Basically be like, Chris Rock Comedy Special featuring Dane Cook. And like, people just read Chris Rock Comedy Special. And the first three minutes were Chris Rock doing comedy. It was like, and now Dane Cook. And Dan Cook got mega, mega popular. Basically, it's a growth hack, a genius growth hack, which is to say, oh, how do I basically like hijack the SEO, the search intent of Chris Rock in order to distribute my own, you know, comedy virus. to everybody else. So Napsur was super cool. He gets sued out of existence. But the thing I like about Sean Parker is that there's this phrase that Kevin Van Trump said once. And we're going to have him on the pod. He's the guy who, what's his newsletter called?

The Farming Newsletter. I forgot what it's called. But he basically writes the biggest newsletter for farmers in the country. And he has FarmCon and a bunch of different things. But he said something to us once. He goes, you know, the train always comes back a second time. And we're like, what do you mean? He's like, for all of the.

the best possible deals, investments, trends, opportunities. You overlook at the first time very common. And you think you totally missed it. I missed the boat. He's like, but he's like, I just see it over and over again. The train comes back around. You know, maybe, you know, you didn't invest in Facebook, but then the stock tanks for a couple months, that's your time to get back on. He's like, it's not always going to be the same price as it was the first time. But for the truly great things, the train has such a long runway. It's so much upside that even if you just get on the second time, you still get filthy rich.

And he's like, the same thing happened with Bitcoin. The people who just kicked themselves for not buying Bitcoin the first time they heard it at $150. Instead of just buying it at $500, they just kept telling the story about how they missed it at $150,000, and then they miss it at $600,000, $800,000,000, and now it's at $60,000.

They're still missing it. He's like, but the smart people are like, well, the train came back around. Let me hop on. I do, I now recognize the value in this thing. And I feel like Sean Parker did that with his career. So for a period of time, Sean Parker was seen as this kind of like bad boy,

but like kind of untouchable. Like you couldn't invest in Sean Parker. He's too rebellious. He's getting sued out of existence. The big companies hate him. The government's after him. He was like an untouchable. And then later it was like,

oh, Sean Parker, this guy was the, you know, he led the round into Facebook. And he was an early huge investor in Spotify. He did this and that. And he became, the guy who could do no wrong.

But those weren't his companies. But he recognized that those companies were winners and actually made his fortune not on the thing he did, Napster, but in recognizing the brilliance of the next Sean Parker. And that was, you know, Daniel Eck for Spotify. Yeah, when he was like, he did this when he was like, he was an elder at 25. Yeah, yeah.

And every hacker looked up to him because he's the guy's an icon. And he used the reputation, but not necessarily the money to make all his money. Usually you use your money to make money. He uses his reputation to make money. So a couple of things that this guy did that was, that's pretty fascinating. So first, I'm going to give you some lifestyle things and then I'm going to give you the career story. So crazy lifestyle thing.

So I met somebody who went to his wedding. Have you ever heard about his wedding? Yeah, man. He got a ton of shit for it in like the heyday of Silicon Valley. So this guy basically spent somewhere between $5 and $10 million on his wedding. And he was like, and so the interesting thing here is just like, weird people are not just like, they're not just like crazy in their business and super chill in their normal life. Most of them.

If you're wired a certain way, you just apply that to everything that comes your way. So for example, when it came to time to get married, he's like, all right, the budget, no budget. Let's just do the sickest thing we can imagine. So they're like, we're going to go to a forest in the big sir. And it's not just going to be a wedding. It's going to be like an immersive theater experience. I know people who were there and they're like, it was crazy. You walk in and like, you could see the stars above you, but it was daytime.

It's like, how the hell are there stars? and like there was rabbits running around like wild rabbits that were just like, you know, there because we were in the forest. And they're like, but it was all planned. They had the costume designer from Lord of the Rings made everybody's outfits. You know, he ended up paying like two or three million dollars in fines because you're just not allowed to just use like the most beautiful public like forest for your own wedding. But he's like, fucking doing it. To propose, Sean, are you sure? They're like, does there a permit? And he's like, put on your, put on your costume and get in here.

to propose he baked his wedding ring into an onion. Gave it to his wife. He's like what? I don't know what this is. It's like being mad at a UFC fighter for getting like drunk in a fight in the street. It's like yeah, he's an animal. What do you expect?

Right. The guy who gets caged up in his underwear and fights another man to the death. Like he wasn't super chill outside their octagon. That's weird. He bought this $55 million house in L.A. from Ellen DeGeneres. and then tricked it out. He's just got like his houses are crazy.

Like it's worth a 30 minute dive just to go look at his houses. But even in his other stuff, like, you know, rich people do philanthropy, but like how you do it is also interesting. So for him, he's like, I want to bet on, he's like, I'm going to take a venture capital approach to philanthropy. So he's like, I'm not just going to donate to the Red Cross or whatever. He's like, I'm going to find the people that are trying to cure cancer in the most

interesting ways and then nobody will fund them because it's too crazy. It's too unproven. They have to like, they have to convince the whole world that they're crazy approach is going to work. He's like, but that's like in the startup world, that's exactly what happens. Some crazy kid has a crazy approach that like, you know, most likely will not work. But if it does, it's going to change the game. And that's what VCs do. They bet on that. He's like, I'm going to do that in, you know, for curing cancer. And so he's poured in tons and tons of money into unorthodox cancer treatments.

How wealthy is he? He's very wealthy. So when he identified Facebook as like a thing and he was like, you know what? I want to invest in this, be a part of this. Mark really liked him. He's the one who connected Mark to Peter Thiel to get the investment, the first 500K investment. He's the one who convinced them, I think, to move to Palo Alto and leave Boston, which then let them, you know, recruit the best talent, which would let them, you know, succeed when other social networks like Friendster and Myspace were failing. So Sean ended up owning 4% of Facebook, which is just like, became worth like, I don't know, four or five billion dollars. just on his Facebook stock.

Then there's an interesting story of how he invested in Spotify. Have you ever read this email that Sean Parker sent to the Spotify founder? Wasn't it something like, this is Napster but done legally? Exactly. So he just cold emails them in 2009. Spotify launched in like 0607 range. Spotify launched in Europe. So Daniel, I think, lived in Sweden.

and then on top of that, they only launched Europe because the rules allowed them to do it in Europe, but he knew he had to build up enough critical mass before entering the United States market. It's like one of the weird reasons that Spotify worked and all the other music sharing services never worked because they all tried to start in the United States

and all of the music labels were so ready to just sue the shit out of everybody from Napster that like you couldn't have done that. That was not, they would come after you when you were just a baby and infant. So he writes them this email and it's a subject line thoughts. and he's like, Daniel and Shaq, he goes, I've been playing around to Spotify, you've built an amazing experience.

As you saw, Zuck really likes it too. I've been trying to get him to understand your model, and I think he just needed to try it to see it for himself. Then he talks a little bit about Facebook, and he's like, we should partner because we can integrate like, Spotify's music stuff with Facebook social graph,

all that. But then he just compliments me. He's like, your design is clean, elegant, tight, and fast. It's clearly lacking some important features like the social stuff, but I think you've done a great job sequence. You've nailed the core experience,

blah, blah, blah. Ever since Napster, I've dreamt of building a product similar to Spotify. I might have tried had I not been, quote, sidetracked with Facebook, founders fund, like this dope shit that I've been doing. And he's like, to be fair, I also was like, you know, pretty scarred from the record labels. He's like, and he's like, you know, so I've adopted a watch and wait thing to try to see, A, when the labels would come to their senses and realize that they need something to distribute music. And two, until a product that would come in that would fix all the things we got wrong with Napster. He's like, you have done that.

And then he just goes on and he articulates from a product point of view what they have done right and what they need to change. And he's like, I can help you do this shit. And he ends up leading a $15 million investment into Spotify, which is like, you know, an amazing investment. I want to read you one other Sean Parker story. So the guy's pretty magnetic. And actually, this story comes from you.

A long time ago, you posted on The Hustle, a blog post about this famous story of the painter who took stock in Facebook. I guess he was supposed to get paid 60 grand. And instead of taking the 60 grand for the painting he did on Facebook's office wall, he took stock. And the stock ended up becoming worth $200 million. I almost chose him for this segment because David Cho, I think. He's a crazy man. He's a crazy man. And he did this interview on Howard Stern. And what that's cool about it. So I knew the story. I think everybody kind of knows the story of the painter. What I didn't know is why he took the stock. And the answer to why he took the stock is that motherfucker Sean Parker.

He's like, that guy. And so he's like, dude, and so Howard's terms, like, why did you pick the stock? Like, you know, were they offering not a lot of money? And he's like, no, they were, I told them the price is $60,000. They said, yes. He's like, that's a lot of money. He's like, yeah, I decided that's what it was going to be worth.

And I think he was like coming out of jail or something at the time. And Sean Parker loved this artist. I was like, no, no, no. This artist has to be the guy. And he had tried to get him to do something for Plaxo, his other company, but they didn't have any money. He's like, finally he hit him up. He's like, yo, we finally have money.

I'm at this new thing called the Facebook. I think we have enough money. Come on, I want, only you can do this painting. So he comes over. He's like, cool, it'll be $60,000. You want to paint this whole building? It'll be $60,000. By the way, if you, I've been to the Facebook office and they've reved done it,

but like parts of the ceiling, they use the same drywall. So you could actually still see the painting. Right. And so Howard Jones was like, what happened? Like, they didn't have the cash? He's like, no, no, they had the cash. He's like, so why did you take the stock? Did you believe in this?

Are you like an investor? Did you believe in this? He's like, dude, I never invested anything in my life. He's like, I asked Sean, I was like, what's this company? He starts describing, you know, what Facebook is a social network for college kids. And I was like, dude, that's lame as shit. And he's like, I wasn't on Frenchster. I wasn't on Myspace.

I hate that shit. He goes, and this is for college students? Oh, even worse. I hate education. I hate college. I never went. I don't even like college students. He's like, so you hate no social networking.

You hate college. He's like, yeah, I dropped out of school. I hate everything about school. And he's like, and it's only starting on Harvard and Stanford campus. Oh man. Like I hate Harvard. I hate Stanford.

I'm like an anti, anti all those things that they stand for. He's like, so why did you do it? He's like, because every time I'd hang out with Sean Parker, he would just tell me like, yeah,

I'm going to make some shit happen. He's like before he went and met with Peter Thiel. He says, oh, I got to go. I got to raise money for Facebook. And he goes, I'm going to bend these fuckers minds. He's like,

and he's like, yeah, the rich. He's like, those fuckers ended up being like the richest men in America. Like, you know, like you're at Reed Hoffman and Peter Thiel. And he's like, dude, this little nerd, this grunny nerd, he's got a lot of swag and confidence.

And he's like, he's just, and he came back. He had raised the money from them. And he's like, okay, interesting. And he's like, so he's like, you want those cash? He wants stock. And he's like, you're in this? He's like, yeah. He's like, all right.

He's like, I sized him up. And I'm like, this guy's going somewhere. He's like, so that that's why I took the stock. That's awesome. That is so awesome. And it ended up being worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't know what he sold and when he sold it, but that's insane. And that's what, you know, these people are, they have a sort of magnetic, a magnetic trait to them that I think is pretty common.

And that's a good example of it. Were you going to talk about his career? Or is that the career part? Well, you know that he's done a few other things. He had a bunch of things that failed. So he had Plaxo. He had air time. He had a bunch of things like that.

Then he was managing partner of founders fund. That's all I know. What else is there? Have you heard of opportunity zones for real estate? You know, I believe he invented that. So basically, I read this a long time ago. I'm going off the cuff. But basically, opportunity zones, if I remember correctly,

there are zones designated by the government that show these places are impoverished or they're like warehouse spaces and we want to incentivize investors to open up, I believe, residential build stuff there. And I think it was his idea. And he lobbied the government and he turned it into a reality.

Opportunities those are the brainchild of Sean Parker. He, in the early 2000s, he was Facebook's first president, and he wanted to minimize his capital gains on his tech stock fortune. So he lobbied the government to create this idea of opportunity zones so that investors would be incentivized to invest in areas that we're not receiving enough investment. And he did it. That's pretty fascinating. Yeah, he convinced the Obama administration, I think it was, to make this a reality. And now it's a thing where billions and billions and billions and billions. billions of dollars go to this. And it was his idea. And he didn't just come up with the idea.

He lobbied the government. He changed the law, which is really fascinating that he did that. So he's done a bunch of interesting stuff. And I think, in fact, I think he also played a hand in Obama getting elected a little bit or something like that. I mean, he's a political guy. So he's done a bunch of interesting stuff. All right. Let me do number two. Then you do number one. All right. So number two is Tom Anderson, aka Tom from MySpace. And I call him, the guy who won the game and simply stopped playing, which is really critical. Almost all these guys,

like you talked about Oleg, and he did this, and then he went bigger, and then he went bigger. And I think that's a common thing. But Tom had one thing those guys will never have. He had enough. And he was able to walk away.

And so Tom's story's pretty wild. I didn't know the backstory. So also age 14, hacks Chase Bank, gets root access into Chase Bank, all of the names, the bank account, the amounts in them.

He could have wired as much money as he wanted out of it. He did not. He knew their mortgages. He knew everything. And he was basically the leader of a hacking crew. And his nickname was Lord Flathead. And so Lord Flathead gets rude access and he leaves a message in Chase Bank. And he says, basically, you need to let me keep my access.

Or I will expose all this information. I will leak all this, blah, blah. You need to give me full access. Even, you know, just acknowledge that I won and give me access to this thing. And he starts bragging about it. So he tells 40 of his friends. He shows them exactly how he did it, how he hacked Chase Bank at age 14. And this is why the FBI conducted one of the biggest raids they've ever done, a simultaneous

raid of 40 different people, all happening at 7 p.m. all in one area because they didn't know who was the kind of the mastermind behind it, but they knew who all had, you know, had seen or had access to it or was talking about it. And so they raid everybody at 7pm. They steal his computer. They take all stuff. But they leave him alone because they're like, the guy's 14.

What are we going to do? We can't charge him. And so he gets off and he agrees, okay, I'm not going to hack stuff anymore. That's his origin story. So now he ends up creating Myspace. MySpace obviously was one of the biggest social networks in the world.

And MySpace was dope for a bunch of reasons that don't even exist anymore. So, you know, he's on our top five, but he was in everybody's top eight. on MySpace, which was like, you know, my top eight friends. And he was the first friend to everybody on MySpace. He has the iconic picture of him, turning away from a whiteboard, wearing his white shirt.

Everybody knows that photo, everybody who's our age, at least, that grew up on MySpace. And MySpace was kind of a culture shifter. Like something that Facebook never really actually captured was that MySpace actually was cool for bands and getting, you know, discovery for music and talent and art. And MySpace was kind of amazing. And he sells MySpace for $580 million. And he pieces out. He bounces.

He has a quote where he's like, yeah, before the acquisition, I could do wherever I wanted. It was pretty fun. He's like, now it takes all this time to get anybody to agree on things because they sold to News Corp, I think. And he says, you know, there's like a budget review and a process for everything. It's a pain. So I'm out. So he pieces out.

And he's, I think 38 years old or something when this happens, he's pretty young. And instead of doing what almost every other business guy does, which is like, cool and now I shall you know change cancer free speech I'll take rockets to Mars Tom's like now I'm gonna travel the world and uh and just take a bunch of pictures he's like I'm just go have fun so I'm read you what I admire about this guy hey his Twitter bio is not it doesn't say I'm Tom I invented my space I exited to news corp for $580 million currently a VC and you know professional dad you know, husband of two, husband of one, father of two,

you know, he doesn't do all that shit in virtue signal. He just says, enjoying the good life. My new hobbies are surfing, architecture, photography, and golf. And what he does is, you know, basically he's like, I'm not going to waste my time just debating politics or like trying to be the next big, you know, venture

capitalist or whatever. He's like, I'm too busy. Like, you know, my eyes are too busy blinded by the by the reflection from the Maldives Sea. I can't, I can't be bothered with all that bullshit. I'm just, just going to go travel the world, do awesome things and take awesome pictures. And so he becomes, if you go to his Instagram, he becomes like a world famous photographer. He has almost 700,000

followers. And he takes beautiful pictures. Like his Instagram is amazing. And it's just pictures from his life traveling the world. And he even he's surprised. He's like, I didn't have a big background of this. He's like, but I took a few photos while I was traveling. And he's like, I couldn't believe what was coming out of the camera. He's like, I couldn't believe that this was coming out of my camera. So he's like, yeah, I decided I'm going to post this stuff. And so you know, he starts posting. It gets popular. So his second act was as this. The reason I put him on this list is because I was on air chat the other night and somebody shared a story about him. They go, you know, they go, Tom is a hero of mine. Of all the tech heroes, he's one of the biggest

because he was able to win the game and then bounce. And they go, not only did he win the tech game, but he won the photography game and then he bounced from that too. So if you go to his Instagram, his last photo that he posted was like 300 weeks ago. So you're like, what happened? Where do you go. Why did he stop? And why did he stop? Because Tom has the ability to have enough. And what happened was this guy goes, I ran into Tom. And I was like, Tom, why aren't you posting pictures anymore? He goes, oh, dude, I was traveling one time. I was in, whatever, Thailand. And I was, he's like, I keep all my camera stuff in my locker. And my locker got jacked. And he's like, somebody stole all my cameras. So I was like, all right. That hobby's done. Moving on.

Can you imagine, like, not only winning the business game, then you win the social media game and you're super popular, and everything you post, you get the dopamine rush of hundreds of thousands of likes and comments saying how beautiful it is, how they're so jealous of your life. And then someone steals your camera.

And of course, you can afford another one, but you're like, maybe it's a sign. Time for the next adventure. And he just moved on to the next adventure. So what's he doing now? So the last thing I could find

because I was like, I needed to know this answer. And I went into... By the way, he does reply to some tweets. I did remember that he replied to one of mine. And if you go to his replies, or maybe he didn't. But somehow he came up.

He did reply recently, and it was like the last time somebody had heard from him, and he just replied like with emojis to somebody. And people were like, oh, Tom, he's back. And somebody on Reddit was like, I bumped into him in Hawaii. He's like, and I basically got the sense that this guy who's literally just like swimming, taking pictures, do it like kind of like, you know, he's just like swimming, hanging out. He's like, I think he's just like, you know, hook it up with like smoking hot women. And I think he's just having a great time.

And he's like not bothered by anything. They're like, that's the vibe I got from him for my 30. second encounter. That was the last information I could find about Tom. Look at this picture I just posted on the MDB thing. Tom's on that longevity protocol. This guy's in his 50s now. And look at him. He looks great. He's young. He looks fresh. He looks happy. But he looks like he's in his 30s. He looks really good. Yeah. Without, you know, life hacking, you know, bio-optimizing and taking 96 pills a day and like cold plunging for 10 minutes and every morning. He's just like, cool, I'll just live a

stress for you, happy life and get a lot of sun and hang out and eat good food and meet cool people. Dude, when I think of hackers at 14, I don't think guys who look like Sean Parker or Tom. So, God bless these guys. What do you think they look like? Hairier, rounder. Like, for sure, harrier and for sure rounder. These guys aren't that hairy or round. They look great. So they've won. Yeah, that's part of why we put them on this list because they're awesome in more ways than just their, you know, the net worth. All right. I'll bring it home.

Like I said, I tried to pick people who you or the listeners would not have any idea who they are. There's a 5% chance that you've had a run in with this guy, though. And I only put maybe 10%, because I think he would have ran in the circles of Michael Birch. But basically, his name is Vivi Nevo. So V-I-V-I-S-N-E-O. Google this guy for me really quick. Tell me who you think he looks like. You probably don't know pop culture enough, so I'm actually going to say it.

He looks exactly like sting. Okay. He definitely looks like a rock and roll icon or like, you know, what I think the guy who invented Zara should look like. Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's a great, which, by the way, Google the guy who started Zara, doesn't look like that. Looks like what I think a hacker looks like. So I call this guy the Israeli Greek Gatsby.

And so I need to tell you this guy's story because. he's incredibly mysterious. So this guy, he's famous for being an investor. He claims to be, and many people, including The York Times, claim that he was the largest shareholder in Time Warner. He was a very large shareholder in Goldman Sachs. So he like runs in all these amazing circles. He's the godparent of some of Rupert Murdoch's kids. And he's like incredibly well connected. The reason I've heard about him was, do you know how there's that famous like Bohemian Grove? of like who's who of the world conference called Allen & Co.

Like the Sun Valley Allen & Co conference where everyone walks out in their vest. You know what I'm talking about? And they have those high-deaf photos. Every photo on Google Images is him at the Allen & Co. conference. He sticks out. He's a really good looking guy and he does not look. He looks like a rock star and I thought it was sting at first. And they said his name was

Vivi Nevo and I was like, who the hell is this guy? So I started researching him. So here's his backstory. He was born in Romania, eventually moves to Israel and his parents die when he's in his 20s. And his parents were very successful. They owned a chemical company. And they leave him something like $3 million.

And he was obsessed with Hollywood. And so he moves to L.A. and he's like, somehow I want to make it into the entertainment business. And so the story is, is that he got some type of low paying, like, not low paying, but he convinced some guy who he met at a gym to hire him at this man's investment bank. because VVie was like, look, I like investing. I know a thing or two about it. I've been investing my parents' money.

Hire me. And so this guy eventually goes on record. His last name is Burke. And he goes, somehow this guy just starts showing up at my office. And he was incredibly engaging. However, he didn't do anything. And that was his whole point is that he did nothing. He was kind of a gopher and he didn't really do anything.

And all the traders and money management guys were like, what the hell does this guy even do? He doesn't keep a schedule. He can't, he's like a hummingbird. He's so ADD. He just jumps around from thing to thing. And I didn't even know what he was doing, but he just showed up in my office until suddenly he quit showing up. And I don't see this guy for years.

I went to his apartment to see if he's okay. He moved out of his apartment. I couldn't find any records for him. I was looking all over the place in Yellow Pages. I couldn't find this guy. He comes back into my life like three years later, and he's totally different. He dresses fancy. He starts hanging out with celebrities.

And we have no idea what he did in those two, three, four, five years. And so the rumors about this guy, and there's all these articles about what the hell does this guy do for a living? None of us can figure it out because he basically has said that he's one of the largest shareholders of Time Warner, which was eventually sold for tens of billions of dollars. Like I said, he was one of the largest shareholders of Goldman. And he's hanging out with all of these celebrities. And so he's, like I said, he's friends with the Rupert Murdoch. VVie, he owns homes in New York City. He owns home in Beverly Hills.

He owns these mansions in Malibu. And Lenny Kravitz eventually lives in one of his guest homes. That's how fancy it is. And a reporter goes to check out his house because it's like this amazing piece of architecture. And they're like, what do you do for a living? And he won't tell anyone what he has done for a living. It even comes out that he is engaged to the actress from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. This woman is like one of the top five most famous women in China.

And he's engaged to her. And everyone's like, dude, what the hell has this guy done? We have no idea what he's done for a living. And it turns out he's also one of the larger investors of Twitter, one of the larger investors in Square. And if you Google him, you'll see there's all types of photos of him with Leonardo DiCaprio, with all these young, amazing, attractive women, even though he's like 65 now. He hangs out with all these celebrities, the who's who of everyone. And these reporters are like, I have no idea how this guy is everywhere.

He was always at the biggest events. I don't know what he does for work. I can't figure anything out about this guy. And he's a prolific investor now in startups. That's how I thought you would have known him. And he owns homes that are worth tens of millions of dollars, many of them. You know, he's got one in, I think, Beverly Hills that he tried selling recently for like 50, or sorry, that he bought recently for $48 million.

The homes are filled with the most amazing art, you know, these things by Bosquia, Keith Herring, like tens of millions of dollars worth of artwork. And he claims to be a startup investor. He claims to be a public equity investor. Have you ever heard of this guy? I've never heard of this guy. And also, I'm still unclear. Are you saying you don't think he is those things?

Because you're kind of like he claims to be this. He claims to be that. But like the story doesn't fully add up. So what's your take here? The story doesn't fully add up because if you own more than 5% of a publicly traded company, you have to be listed as that. And New York Times have asked Time Warner and a bunch of his people, there they go, he is a shareholder.

That's just all they'll say. They'll say, he is, in fact, a shareholder. And he's in the ears of the CEOs. And the CEOs of Time Warner will be like, hey, Vivi is really important to our operation. He's been a big deal. Now, a lot of people think there's rumors that he's part of the Mossad, which is basically like the Israeli secret service. Because no one actually understands what he does.

And you'll see him with all these interesting celebrities. he looks super fit and they all say the same thing about the guy. They go, he's the most charismatic person we have ever met. And like story after story after story, it's billionaire after billionaire, saying, oh, Vivie, he's one of my best friends. And they'll say, well, do you know what he does for a living? You know, we don't really talk about that. But he's the most engaging guy we will ever, you'll ever talk to. He's the least boring person. And they go, we're best friends because just like this person, this person, and this person who will say the same thing, he came up one day and he sat next to me, and I couldn't stop listening to what he had to say because he was so

interesting to talk to. And so my theory is that he is, in fact, very wealthy. And he's wealthy because he made connections to a bunch of different people, and he connected them and would get little bits of equity into a variety of businesses. And he's fascinating to me because he's completely kind of made up this fake persona that has become a reality. And, you know, if you read that book, 48 Laws of Power, one of the rules is to change your image constantly. And he basically disappeared in his 30s and he came back with a new persona and he became that person. And many like Hollywood people have been like, this guy needs a movie. If you guys would know. This man had the greatest New Year's resolution of all time. He's like, all right, New Year,

new me. Literally. Literally. Now I'm the most charismatic, interesting, well-connected, romantic, and richest person in the world. Fantastic. You've never had run-ins with them? No, I've never, I've never bumped to this guy. Have you? And I'm glad too, because I'm It sounds like, have you ever seen Eric Weinstein talk about Jeffrey Epstein like this first time he met him? What did he say that he was charismatic? Well, no, he's like, the hair on my neck stood up immediately. He's like, it didn't add up. Like, you know, where did this guy, you know, how have I never heard of this guy?

Where did he get his wealth? How did he create this hedge fund? How is he splashing cash around like this? How does it? Why does nobody know him from like before a certain time? And he's like, he's like, Jeffrey Epstein was a government construct. Like he was basically a government, you know, created entity that was meant to, you know, ultimately like get, you know, compromise, like, you know, blackmail on a whole bunch of rich successful people. And that's what he goes around and talk about on podcasts.

I don't know this guy at all, but it just reminded me of, of that, like, the mystery of like, who is this person? How does this all add up? Like, okay, your mom left you 10 million bucks, but then how did you become such a big shareholder and all these things? That's not a big starting amount of capital to be able to accumulate big stakes in things. It's also interesting that, like, you know, he was one way that he came back years later as, like, a totally different guy with a totally different personality and a different persona. Dude, the New York Times said he's the single largest shareholder of Time Warner, which is a big deal. That's billions of dollars. And it's amazing that in today's age that you can't find out this guy's background.

no one really knows. No one talks about it. Look at this picture I put into the dock. It's him at the Allen & Co. Conference riding a bike while the two people he's talking to are walking. Yeah, and he's like dictating to them. That's not even possible, dude. How are you going to ride a bike and how are people going to walk and talk next to you?

You can't even, I've tried that. You can't ride slow enough where they can do that and they can't walk fast enough for you to do this. This just added to the allure to me in a way that nobody else will really understand. this is impossible. He is defying physics to be able to socialize like this. And you see him with literally the most powerful people on Earth. And he is always talking with his hands flailing. Yeah, he's gesturing like crazy in all these pictures.

And the people who are the most powerful people on Earth are leaning in, listening. There's a photo of Tim Cook stroking his chin leaning in like, oh, what's your opinion on this? And he's just engaged them wildly. And so this guy, like, he is like somehow in the ear of the most powerful people on earth, but no one knows who he is. I think it's hilarious that we ended this list with a guy that we basically know nothing about. No one knows anything about may not actually be an interesting guy. And we're also massively reading into these signals of like from these like random photos where we're like, look at the way that lean is happening. Ooh, he must be charismatic.

Or like, I'm like, look at this bike. Look at how he's biking while all the people are walking. How can he even do that? Wow, this guy is fantastic. We have so little to go on. We are grasping for straws on this guy. We are not grasping. I'm grasping.

You're grasping too. There's something here about this person. I need someone to message me information about him. Surely people are in our audience to know who this person is. I do that on a T-shirt, by the way. I'm not grasping. You're grasping. That's our version of like, you can't triple stamp, a double stamp.

All right. Well, that's the list. I think the real list here is basically that these are the most interesting billionaires you've never heard of. That's right. That's where we've learned. I agree. I agree with that. All right.

That's the pod. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On a road, let's travel, never looking back.