My First Million - Work Like Ocean's 11, Sam Bankman-Fried, and the Deepfake Dilemma

Episode Date: May 26, 2022

Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about how the future of work will look like an Ocean's 11 team, height enhancing surgery, Sam Bankman-Fried, and how to solve the problem of deepfakes. ----- Links: * My Body Tutor * SiriusXM Acquires Conan O'Brien's Team Coco podcast * Moiz's tweet * Surgery that makes men taller * Foot file * TikTok apartments * Sam Bankman-Fried * A.Team * GetSway app * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ----- Show Notes: (01:25) - Shaan eating healthy & MyBodyTutor (05:20) - How much MFM is worth? (09:15) - Drinking Cola and Genghis Khan (14:10) - Surgery to make you 3 inches taller (25:15) - TikTok Apartments (39:10) - Sam Bankman-Fried (49:10) - A.Team (55:10) - No one reads Docusign (61:10) - Zelensky Deep Fakes ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

So somebody had tweeted out something which was like, hey, if you needed a side hustle that was going to generate like 3K to 5K a month. And you could only kind of work like, you know, let's say like, you know, a couple hours during the week and half a day on the weekends or something like that. What would you do to do that if you didn't know how to code? Are we good? I'm a whole different guy, Samfar. I'm, you're looking at a man four days in to clean eating. And guess what? Are you really?

Now I'm on time. Guess what? Now my kids love me. Guess what? The stocks went up today for the first time into like five months. So a lot of things are going well here. What are you eating? I'm just like, I don't know if this is healthy or not, but I'm very heavy meat and protein right now and just like nothing bad and not eating late.

not doing bad stuff. Dude, listen to this thing that I'm doing. It's called My Body Tudor. Have you heard of it? I have heard of this. Is it like a text messaging thing? Somebody like... It's way more primitive than that.

So basically I pay them either $6 or $700 a month. I don't remember if it's $5.99 or $6.99. And this woman named Heather, she's like my coach, she just calls me every single morning. And I have to tell her what I ate, what I'm going to eat today. and then she tell and then I write down on my fitness pal what I've eaten the day before and you'll say yesterday was bad or good here's why tell me what you're going to eat today that's all it is it's a five minute phone call and it's it's it's amazing it's it's you should try this

it's actually I should try this the fact that I don't want to try this tells me that I absolutely should try this so I think I might I think I might do it because uh yeah I don't know it's I'm, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what's, I'll tell you what's embarrassing. What's embarrassing was that a day and a half into just eating clean and just not, not like, you know, oh,

my daughter's leftover macaroni and cheese. All right. Let me just eat these three spoons before I put it in the sink. Or like, oh, there's a free cookie here at this thing. Let me just grab that. A day and a half in,

I felt a difference, which tells me how poorly I had been eating. If I could feel a difference just from a day and a half of eating. perfectly right. What do you eat normally that's bad? Are you talking about like processed? Just clean me just like no sugar and not processed. No sugar, not processed.

Not like late night snacking or whatever. Like just cutting it off at a certain time. And then not like, okay, you know, I've been like, you know, what will happen to me sometimes is I'll be like, oh, I'm working. I got calls. I got the pot. I got all this stuff going on. I'm excited. I look up.

It's 2 p.m. I haven't eaten anything. And I'm like, all right. the next edible item in sight is just getting like devoured, right? It's like a stress eat at that point. Yeah, it's getting got. Oh, you thought this party size of Doritos was for a party? No, it's getting got right now.

And so you ever heard of, you ever heard of someone doing a line of Oreos? It's when you get the Oreo tray and it's got like three columns and you do a whole line. You just take a whole column out in one sitting. That's something that would happen before. You know, just on an inconsistent basis. I like to do Oreo cereal. You just get a gallon of milk and a sleeve of Oreos and just go to town. So I'm on board with you, man.

I like all that stuff too, but you just can't do it. Yeah, I can't do it. All right. So we got a bunch of stuff. Let's do some of these topics. I don't know where you want to start. Actually, I just see my topics. I don't see yours.

Do you have any? I had a few. We went through a lot of them the other day. Well, one thing that is quick. The classic we went through a lot of them the other day. The classic. No, I'm usually really prepared. But do you see that Conan O'Brien's thing got acquired Team Coco?

Yeah, you texted this. So what is it? So he has a podcast network or is just his one podcast? It's a podcast network, but I think he's the heavy hitter. And it sold. For like 160 million or something you said, right? Like a pretty big number. 150 to 200.

I forget the number. But they have 16 million downloads a month. We have. MFM-sized. Yeah, we have two or three million a month. So what does that put us worth? And ours is a business. Like, it's the people listening,

you guys are richer than like Conan O'Brien's audience. Yeah. And we're way better looking and way more funny. So, you know, if you just take his multiple and you say, all right, divide by eight, we don't do public math. So that's unfortunately just the problem. We're not going to know how much worth because we're going to do public math and moving on to the next topic.

I think that's $20 million. Who bought it, by the way? Serious. Serious bought it. Okay, so he's going to go exclusively to them. Yeah, but honestly, I'm going to call our shot a little bit. I don't think that it's going to be that crazy that in a year or two, we get paid like 10 or 20 million a year to license out to Spotify or something like that. I would enjoy that.

That sounds a little crazy. That sounds a little crazy. But then again, like, it sounded crazy that, you know, like, for example, the ringer when they got bought by by Spotify. So they were a sports network of podcast led by Bill Simmons. So Bill Simmons was sort of like the Conan O'Brien of that network. And they got bought, I think, for $200 million. And what's crazy is it's not even exclusive to Spotify,

which is just like wild to me that that's how favorable these deals are. In the same way that Joe Rogan, when he got paid by Spotify, he had to take it off of YouTube, but he's still on Apple. podcast, which is pretty crazy. So when the ringer sold to Spotify, 200 million, I think they were doing about 15 million in revenue when they got bought for 200. That is absolutely crazy. And was it only one podcast? Or no, they actually have a bunch more. It was like, yeah, 12 maybe or something like that. But they've got a few winners. It's like three winners. And then like it's like one big winner, two small winners and then a bunch of like long tail stuff that that kind of doesn't matter.

In terms of like how big it is. But also I think for them, the thing is, they're one, they're It's not like they were bought for a revenue multiple. It's not like Spotify was like, you know what? We're going to buy this revenue multiple because, you know, that's going to get priced at a favorable rate in the market here. It was just like, we need to strategically move into podcasting. Okay, go get Rogan. Go get the ringer.

Go get. The one that got bought that, like a bar alley is that startup one gimlet. So they bought Kimlet also for a lot of money. They bought Anchor, that podcasting tool that sucked. Like, not suck. The tool was cool, but nobody was using it. They bought that thing for. for like 150 million, which is crazy to me.

And so they splurged. And I think, you know, that splurge, that splurge window is now closed. Well, listen, if you're a listener, and if you work at Sirius or Spotify or something like this, and you want to throw a few hours away. We are motivated by money. Yeah. We do things because people pay me money. So we can have that conversation.

I enjoy commas with many zeros around them. Yeah. So anyway, if you're listening and you're, want to make an introduction or you want to help us get paid. Can we talk about this? Okay, so I have a few ideas. So I have a couple of things I want to talk you about later. I want to talk you about this new version of plastic surgery that I think is interesting.

I want to talk to you about virtual reality project I saw that was actually doing pretty significant revenue. I want to talk to you about this like bionic reading thing. So I have a few things I want to talk about. But first, can we talk about? talk about this meme, the drinking a cola meme. Yeah. So Sam texts me while we're on vacation.

And I was like, dude, this is perfect for the pod because you saw a tweet from Moy's, who came on the podcast the same day or the next day or something like that. And Moyes said something like, I don't know, can you pull it up with the exact phrasing is? But he was just tweeting about some business thing. He's like, oh, yeah, I was drinking a cola with the founders of this, blah, blah, blah, app and then he said some business thing and Sam rightfully pointed out how

hilarious that intro is of like I was enjoying a cola with my friends and then we just decided to start talking about you know cash flow. I met with the triple whale founders yesterday for a cola. They were exhausted from a day of traveling but we all left with so much energy.

Genghis Khan conquered 30% of the world during his reign. We want to do the same except the world is now the digital marketing share. But the intro was, I met with these founders yesterday for a cola. That tweet is hilarious on multiple levels. First of all, the event up for these founders for a cola. Hilarious, who drinks cola? I don't know. Who says cola? First of all, that's like, who smokes and drinks soda still? I don't know. Second, who calls it cola? Third, why is that relevant for the tweet? It's so funny. We have to do a series of tweets where it's like, we talk about

something profound, but the intro is like, you know, so I was getting some caramels with a friend. Or, yeah. So, like, it just got to be like the most random stuff. Snapping off a beef jerky with my buddy, Timmy. And he told me about how self-storage market is really going under right now. Yeah. It's like, yeah. I thought it was so.

Who says a cola? Yeah, exactly. Do you think that's what he meant is a colt? Like, you sat down for like Pepsi? Like, that's. It's like, you know, at our board meeting today, we poured out a peppermint schnapps and decided to like. Yeah, that is weird. So that's my new, like, if we ever do an event or a conference, it's like, that's the passcode.

Like, how do we know you're real, and you're a real listener, you're real loyal? It's like, you need to be able to come up and be like, and tell us a story. tell us a story that starts with like, you know, you know, so I was eating a dunkeroo and, you know, it just had a question. Or we got to like do the most extreme thing ever where it's like, so I was doing this thing where you suck on a piece of candy

and then spit it in your friend's mouth because it changed the taste. Anyway, we're talking about, that's not important, but we were talking about the economics. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Yeah, that's my deal.

shit. You know, my last shit was I have moved straight to the end because of Elon and I haven't moved straight to the end. That's done. And my new shit is, yeah, we're doing the spaghetti thing where we each take one end of the noodle and suck on it. But when we got close to the middle, we realized the problem with COVID. And then we started talking about the recession and how it's losing. That's pretty good. Dr. Dr. And a cola. Wait, really quick, do you think that he was trying to be funny? No, that's the best part. I think he was just saying like, I think he was just saying what happened.

And that in his mind is what happened. Even the second part of the tweet alone, right? Take the cola part out. Just being like, I met with the vendors of triple well. And, you know, Genghis Khan. If you bring Genghis Khan into whatever sentence you're saying, you are, you are dramatically overestimating whatever you're doing in life. it's like the same way where if anyone's like yeah um you know the way that Tesla came out with

the roadster first so we're also doing like a high end of digital marketing attribution before we go low end it's like no you're equivalent you're making yourself equivalent to Tesla and like that's anytime you're like gangis Khan conquered 30% of the earth whatever the next sentence is better be fucking lit and instead his was like we're doing the same for digital marketing and so that also So it was like, you know, just hilarious to me. Is Cola, do, is Moy, was born in America? Yeah, he's, he's born here. No, they were, I think they were born in Pakistan.

And then they moved when they were like seven or five or something. Is that like a Pakistani thing where they call like soda cola? I don't know, maybe. Because actually I have a cousin who came over from India, but like when he was like 20. And he would always be like, hey, can I have a Coca-Cola light? And we're like, what? What did you just say? And he would always say the full name of things.

And it was like, okay, yeah, like. Oh, is this covered by nationwide insurance? It's like, yeah, it is. Funny you ask. This is awesome. We could go on this forever. Yeah. It's too much for me.

All right. So I want to talk to about a couple ideas. Did you see this thing about, I have this link in here you can see. It's this surgery that guys are getting that cost $75,000, but it'll make you. you three inches taller. Do you see this thing? They break your... That's a great thing to text to like your friend who like is a little short. You're like, hey, heard the news.

Good news. Congrats. Congrats. Heard about the scientific breakthrough. Oh, what happened? You get a vaccine? No. They break your femur and they'll put a rod in and it'll make you three to five inches taller.

And this thing is like apparently just popping off. And I've just been looking at this like, it's like what are the big problems that nobody wants to admit to, but are real. I just think that that's an interesting prompt for business ideas. So it's like our buddy Craig Clemens does this where like one of his products is like, one of his best selling products, right? Like he's got these DDC companies that do like, I don't know, over 100 million a year in sales as part of his like bootstrapped thing.

And I think one of their products was like some toenail fungus remover. And it's like just like the unsexiest thing, but it's like common. And it's actually some. something that people really want to get rid of, right? Or something that people really want to change. And I think height is another one. I've seen this now in two places. So first I saw this surgery thing and I was like, oh, that's funny.

Like the article was written almost like, can you believe this crazy thing people are doing? And in my mind, I was like, yeah, I can totally believe that. I think being three to five inches taller is fucking awesome. Yeah, exactly. Like if you're going to get breast implants or like a fake ass, like, yeah, this is, this is on board. Exactly.

And I was like, you know, being. taller is like, you know, just awesome. Like, if you gave me three inches, I'd be very happy and I'd earn more money and I'd be more liked. Like, that's just a thing. Like, Ben, how tall are you? You're like 6'4, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Correct. You already know, you already know the advantage you have. You're so privileged, dude. You shouldn't even talk to this podcast. You're so privileged. You're speaking from tall privilege right now. Check your privilege.

Yeah, you need to check your tall privilege at the door right now. I had a girlfriend one time. Not like a girlfriend, but like a, a girl I was familiar with who said, who told me, I can't tell if I think you're actually handsome or if you're just tall. Yeah. By the way, Sam, in your course, there's a review from me saying, like, Sam's copywriting course, it works.

I got three extra inches in two weeks or something like that. And did you write that? Because people keep coming to me to be like, that's so funny. Yeah, they're like, dude, that's so funny. And either I'm blacked out or someone is just impersonating me because I don't remember writing that. But it's hilarious. Basically, if you go to trycopy that.com and you scroll all the way down, like on the sales page, you'll see like a, and it says Sean Pury.

And then the review is, loved it so much. It gave me three extra inches, totally five out of five stars. I thought you did that, which was funny. But the fact that someone else did it and wrote your name is funnier. Yeah. Dude, I knew a guy. Yeah, so this is an interesting question. We, I know a guy named Nat and he's got an app.

It's called like, I forget exactly what it's called, but it helps you with a keegle. Do you know what a keegel is? I think a keegel is the exercise that you do, or is it the muscle that needs to be stronger? It's the exercise. It's the exercise that you have to do that keeps you from pre-jacking early. I guess that's an oxymoron. Or I like how you just shortened it. You're like, if I just say half the word, it's half as bad.

The other thing, I think I think women do it, which is. like supposed to be just like good for you in general but also like for women it kind of titans it helps helps helps sex feel better for them i think it's the idea um well this guy and he created an app for men to keep you from just jacking early and i think he kills it let me guess doing pretty well yeah let me guess it's doing pretty well yeah it's doing good and so that's like another one it that i don't know if that's that big of a market but what else is there i think it is a huge market. I mean, look at what Roe and Hymns did, right? So they took erectile dysfunction and they wrapped a brand that you won't feel embarrassed your, you know, like, associated with

around it, right? Like, the value of Hymns is partially the telemedicine piece, which is like, you don't have to go to a doctor and talk to somebody face to face about this. So it's like, reduces shame on one end. And on the other end, it reduces shame. The other way, which is you get the package. There's no label on it. It's like completely discreet. And, And secondly, like, they made their brand cooler so that you don't feel like a schmuck for using, you don't feel like something's wrong with you or you're broken in some way for using that, right? Like, that's like the value of their brand. And that's why they built literally a billion dollar brand doing that. Yeah.

Here's another one. Have you ever, have you ever like cheese grated your foot to get the callus off? You don't. Like, that's the most country thing. you've ever said no i have never done that like you know like with parma have you oh i know what you're talking about like i've seen i've seen

a girl doing this on this like there's like a like the equivalent of like a sweet potato peeler or whatever and they just like use that on their like to get their callus off their foot yeah so i just sent it to you in the chat box it's uh it's basically i bought one

the other day because i had just like caluses on my foot and it's basically just a cheese grater like like for palm chie they just call it a foot they call a colossal foot rest a foot file is what they call it it's got almost a hundred thousand reviews

oh my god this thing is 82,000 reviews on amazon it's just a cheap reader that they just call a foot file with more reviews than that like the hot pot has an instapot or whatever has that many reviews Is that crazy? It's a $10, like, made-in-China cheese grater that just call a foot file. Is that amazing? That probably costs them 50 cents, right?

No, more than that. But, like, yeah, it's still profitable. That's crazy because they're just going to get so many searches, right? Like, for something like this. The other one that's the height one that I saw, so somebody's doing this on TikTok, and the ad is brilliant. So they're selling a shoe, like a men's platform shoe. so it's an insert into a normal shoe.

That's kind of like a heel, but instead of the heel being on the outside of the shoe, it's on the inside. So your foot just like your heel gets elevated from the inside, like a doctor shoals, but like gives you two and a half inches inside of a shoe. Just do that.

Way better, right? And so, but how do they sell this? How do they sell this? The TikTok ad is it looks like, so it's, you know this like, I don't know if you heard this thing in comedy, like a man on the street interview where it's basically like,

if you ever watch those late night, shows, they'll go to like Times Square, they'll be like, uh, you know, do you support, you know, whatever this thing? And then people don't even know what it is. They like say stupid stuff. But it's basically like dude walking around with a microphone out and about like Times Square, outside of a nightclub or like at a bar and they just like ask questions. And so the ad is a TikTok is on TikTok. And what the guy's doing is or the girl is, um, oh, no, the guy's interviewing girls. He's like, all right, be honest. The size matter when it comes to height for guys, right? Or like something like that. They're like immediately get you.

of like, okay, first, this doesn't look like an ad. Secondly, you kind of want to know what the girl says. Because every man is self-conscious of it. Exactly, because it's preying on an insecurity. And so then, and it just quickly cuts between the girls. And they'll be like, and it ranges from a girl being like, uh, like, no, okay, yeah. And then like, like, it's kind of like her admitting it.

And then it's like the next one is like two girls. They'll be like, hell yeah, she won't even date a guy if he's not six, five. And she's like, no, no. He's like, no, tell the truth. It's true. and like and it's kind of like praying on the guy's insecurity like oh man girls really care about this they won't admit it but they but if you get them to be honest they really do care that that extra hate matters it'll be like what's the perfect height for a guy and then they'll be like um six one like you know the average guy is my five nine and they're like yeah and then they're just laughing right and it's like four of those cuts of like that interview and then they do it even better version of it they're like I've seen one I think that's like the guy's wearing it and they're like, did you know that he's wearing this thing right now?

And they're like, no, I had no idea. And it's basically like, people can't tell that you're wearing these things. And so they're addressing the objections that somebody would have. So first they create the demand, which is that like girls will find you more attractive if you're taller. Then they address the objections, which is you don't look goofy for wearing stilts.

And like, and so they're like, oh, I have no idea. No, you can't tell. Oh, my God, that's awesome. Like, that's so clever. And so they're like, and they super cut that together. And I saw that and I was like, man, this is a really effective, like, marketing campaign. And it's also an interesting product category that I wouldn't have otherwise really thought about. That's actually interesting.

Yeah, this is pretty cool. That is a good one that people are embarrassed about. They need to do an ad about how, like, everyone who says their 511 is really just 5.9 because no one's actually 511. Like, you just... Yeah, if you do a man on the street, you're like, how tall are you? They're like, yeah, 5, 5.11. I'm 6. I'm 6.

And they're like, okay, cool. We have a thing right here. Just stand up. And they're like five, ten and a quarter. No one's five even. No one's five or you six one. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Never met a six footer in your life. It's like a leap year. Six footer in my life, dog. You five ten. Just admit it. Five ten, six one. No in between. God skipped that.

We went from five eleven to six one, but you wait six even. God doesn't make mistakes, but he never made a man six foot even. that stamp wasn't made. So like anybody says there's six even, that ain't true. That's why my men always say you have at least six one. Let me tell you another TikTok marketing thing that I think is pretty clever that I saw. Have you ever heard of it's probably not? It's pretty niche.

But this thing called Farcocte apartments. I have it on here. It's F-A-R-K-A-T-E. So basically there's a woman on TikTok and she's a real estate broker. or a leasing broker. And I'll tell you how I arrived at this. So somebody had tweeted out something which was like, hey, if you needed a side hustle that was going to generate like 3K to 5K a month and you can only kind of work like, you know, let's say like, you know, a couple hours during the week and half a day on the weekends or something like that, what would you do to do that

if you didn't know how to code? And one of the interesting answers was, oh, I'd be a leasing agent because if you can get an apartment leased up, you get, I think, the first month's rent or something like that as the broker. And so the rent is going to be in New York or San Francisco or these big cities, rent's going to be like $3,000, $4,000, $5,000, $6,000. And so if you just lease one apartment, right?

So if you can get one apartment leased, you know, that's $5K right there. That's pure profit, essentially. And what I saw was that some people, what they're doing is they're creating popular TikTok accounts just showing unique spaces or like in this case she shows like hilariously, I think hilariously bad apartments.

Like she'll walk into this place. She'll be like, all right, this apartment, this condo is exquisite in like whatever, you know, Queens here. And then she'll be like,

you know, how many bedrooms is it? There's no bedrooms. There's just this loft. Actually, it's just this like area above the kitchen where there's like a pipe above your head. But like there's like three inches to go sleep up there

if you can climb up. And like, oh, you know, do you like, the soothing sounds of water, well, the toilet keeps running. So you'll have that Zen vibe. And so she's like kind of making fun of like how overpriced apartments in New York are and for like how little you get for how much you pay, which is just a great viral hook.

Right. So instead of just doing the literal thing, which is go to find an apartment, be like, hey, guys, here's a great apartment. She finds hilariously bad deals, makes that her TikTok or really good deals. And then she basically says, if you want an apartment, come to me. And so I don't know if this is exactly her model, because I just looked at it real quick. But like I think that would be a model that would work is create content. Like we've seen this on Instagram. There's an account called Zillow gone wild, which is hilarious to watch, which is like,

it's just like crazy ass homes from Zillow. And so you can kind of make like house porn or like apartment porn where it's like just really interesting stuff, like really interesting apartments or really interesting homes, really overpriced, really underpriced, whatever. And then use that as your lead gen for like, by the way, do you actually just want a two bedroom apartment? it like come through like get it through me like here's my listings uh like you can actually see if you want like something that's not like overpriced here's my listings and like i think just doing something like that you could have have a lot of fun and build a pretty like solid business i mean i'm sure she's doing

way more than 5k a month but i just thought that's kind of an interesting little model i looked up i looked up this word i've never heard that word it's a i looked it up it's a it's a yiddish word that means poor quality uh and so but who's this lady what's her handle it's just that it's that word those where she got far fracques apartment and that's her tictox she has 37000 followers and like you know like here's a huge loft in brunswick and i have 108000 views on that video right so she's showing these things but then she has her actual so she's like comedy actress slash realter if you want my real rentals you know compass dot combe go go get them right like you can That crushes.

That he crushes. Yeah. So I thought this is great. And it's like completely differentiated from what most people do. And so like I'm trying this right now with the Milk Road, which is like I'm really obsessed with this idea of like if you combine two things that are usually not combined, you don't have to be great at either one of the things because you've created a whole new combination. Right.

Like this happens in food all the time where like you've you've talked about this formula in food like jumbo donut. It's like you don't need to have the best donuts. Just do a huge donut and then people will come to you for that. Right. Go for the biggest. Make a green, you know, purple ketchup. Green like, you know, her, Dorito tacos, right?

Like, it's not that it's better. It's just so different. And so with Milk Road, we're doing this right now where I'm trying to create like basically a, it's not funny enough or it'd just be like a straight up like comedy thing. But it's like a lot of. Yeah, it's like this part. Yeah.

I don't know why I'm trying to go for this far-fetched example. This podcast, are we the richest? No, are we the smartest? No, are we the best prepared? No. Do we have the best insights and research? Absolutely not. Are we the funniest?

No. But do we have the right combination of like, we are having a good time. We make ourselves laugh and make you laugh just enough. We're like, it's business and it's just enough business and just enough make you laugh. And that's what I'm trying to out with the Milk Road now. I'm trying to do the same thing. It's like there's crypto information. There's a lot of people trying to be the smart.

guy in the room with crypto. It's like a big brains contest. You go into a room and everybody's trying to have this like 9,000 IQ. It's like, well, we want to be smart, but we're not going to be the smartest, because who the fuck knows who's the smartest? It's really hard. But like, we can also be slightly funny and we would differentiate ourselves from everybody else doing crypto content. And so I'm pretty interested in this like, this like idea of stacking unique skills that are like, you don't have to be the best at either. You just have to be just dangerous enough at both. But if you combine them, you're completely differentiated in your market. Can I ask you about a crypto story really quick that you might know about?

And I need you to explain it to me. So do you know anything about Sam Bankman-Fried? That's his name, right? Bankman-Fried. Yeah, of course. So how old's he? Is he under 30 still? He's like 29, 30, 30.

I know he was under 30 at once, but is he still under 30? I should know. They are currently the leading sponsor of the milk crowd. So FtX, go get your account. So he is 30 years old, exactly, on the knot. All right. That was a bad joke I made, by the way. I said, I knew he was under 30 once, but is he still under 30?

I was good, actually. I just didn't pick it out. All right. So this like, basically when he was 28, he was worth like $20 billion, right? Yeah, he's the, I think he's probably, I think him or the guy from Binet, they're the richest person from crypto besides whoever Satoshi is. That's crazy. So in this, he said in an article the other day, he's like, I'm thinking about spending $100 million on the upcoming presidential election. election, but I'll probably cap out at about a billion.

Yeah. And just like that statement is just a ridiculous statement. Like, not that it's wrong. It's just like a crazy chain of words added together in one sentence. Like I didn't think I would hear someone say it, let alone a 30-year-old. How, what type of person is this guy to become that rich at like 28? He also has a unique skill stack, which is that. So he was like, I think a trader or an analyst at Jane Street.

So it's like kind of like a smart quant. guy. And then, you know, I think I've told the story before. You know the story about the, the kimchi like arbitrage or whatever, you know what this? Not exactly. I know that like he did some arbitrage, but I don't understand why Bitcoin would be cheaper in Korea than it would in America. Well, it's all about like kind of like access and the liquidity of the market. So like some markets, like, for example, Japan is where the access was the hardest. So like I think, let's say this, for example, the government's cracked down on exchanges. So you can only get it in the black market or on these small niche exchanges of these foreign offshore exchanges.

There's a lot of friction. And so because of that, you can't access coinbase.com? Yeah, like at a given time in Japan, you couldn't access, you couldn't easily buy Bitcoin. Because of that, to buy Bitcoin in Japan, you were paying a premium. So in theory, you could, let's say Bitcoin's priced at 30 grand.

You could buy Bitcoin for 30 grand in America. And if you had a way to sell it in Japan, you could sell it for 32,000. And you could just infinitely make a $2,000 spread. And so it's kind of like, great, how much capital you got, pour it all into Bitcoin in the U.S. and then sell it all instantly in Japan. And you're not really taking much risk because you're just quickly flipping it for that premium. And so a lot of people were trying to do this.

I think there was a spread of about five grand in Japan or something like that at the time. But nobody knew how, like it wasn't easy to go sell the thing in Japan. Again, if it was that easy, there wouldn't have been the premium in the first place. What he found was that I think it was in Korea, that he, there was a smaller premium. but it was easier to get around. And so what they did was they literally flew to career or whatever and they like talked to like local banks and they were like, hey, we would like to have an account that will allow us to, you know, wire money in significant size every day in and out. Like can you support that? Can you support that action?

Because I'm going to basically be transferring in like, you know, call it $2 million in and $2 million out the same day. And it has to be the same day. Just calling that action makes it sound cooler. Can you support that action? That's such a better word than the amount. Can you handle that size? That's my new ship to also, by the way. Just being like, yeah, we got to be able to do it in size.

Or like, yeah, they're moving in size. It's like, I'm just going to say action instead of the word amount. So like asking my wife how much like beef she wants me to buy at the store. How much action you want? How much action you're trying to get on these ribs? In terms of oat milk, are we trying to move size? Yeah, it's crazy. So basically what ended up happening was he had this company like whatever,

Alameda research or whatever. But like he saw that the, I think it was like the kimchi premium was like the big premium was like if Bitcoin was 10K in the US was 15K in Korea. And I think in Japan, there was a smaller one. And so he was able to do it in Japan. And he made something like $20 million doing this arbitrage in like one summer. And it took him like flying there, finding a network of local banks that would let him wire serious money in and out and make sure that they could just repeat these transactions on the same day close so that they had the money. They were recycling a small amount of money.

So I think it was like, take $2 million. They buy Bitcoin. They sell it in Japan. They take the money that they're made in Japan. they need to be able to wire it back so that tomorrow they can go buy again 2.2 million of Bitcoin based off of the extra that they made. And then they did the same thing next day, 2.4 million. And they got it up where they eventually profited like 20, 30 million.

So then he basically was like, all right, him and his like small team, I guess, like this little crew that was doing this arbitrage. Did he have money ahead time? Or was he just like a like a living with roommates? Living with roommates. Even now he lives like, he drives like an old beat up Honda or some shit like that. He sleeps like in the office on a giant beanbag. So there's like tons of pictures of him just like passed out on a bean bag in front of his desk. And it's like it's actually like two beanbags like upper body on one feet on the other.

Creates this tiny little SBF bridge in between them. And like that's just the way this guy works. And he's like, you know, he's vegan. He's a he's like he practices this thing called effective altruism, I think is what you call it. And so. So that's his thing, which is like his goal is like this philosophy. And the goal is make as much, much. as you can so that you can give away as much money as you can.

Like that's the point of making money is to give it away in the most effective manner possible. And so it's like earned to give is the like name of the, um, um, is the name of the, of the, like, the, the philosophy of what they do. Is that one of the things he's trying to do is like, yeah, that's what he says he's motivated by. So he's like, you know, he's donated like, I think he donated like, he's donated 200 million already of his like net worth.

And he's, um, um, And he's, you know, this thing about like, I'm willing to donate up to a billion dollars, you know, in the next one is to like, you know, another way to make change. And it's not all political. Like, it's like, where does the dollar have, you know, the most effect and that sort of thing? Yeah. He, uh, did I also read an interview or is it you told me where he was like, I don't even care about Bitcoin. Like, I'm just doing this to make money. Like, he said something to the.

He's not like particularly. He's like, yeah, he's bullshit. Yeah. So there's a lot of people in crypto that are like very missionary. Like if you listen to Brian Armstrong from Coinbase, he's like, he like lived in Buenos Aires. And he saw like, you know, what happened to the Argentinian peso. And he was like, it's not right. Like people around the world are, you know, don't have access to like economic freedom.

And, you know, they live in a place where their currency gets devalued like crazy. And like there's a better way. And it's crypto. I believe that to my core. And I'm going to like, Coinbase is going to help more people like get into crypto. because I think crypto is what matters in the world. And Sam Baker-Freed just sort of like, you know, not that. His mission is different.

His mission is like, I'm an effective altruist. I'm trying to give away as much money as possible. So I need to make as much money as possible. And in order to do that, I'm going to just, oh, you know, whether you're selling this or that, like, cool, people wanted an effective trading platform for crypto. I'll build that. You know, I know this product and this need because I've been a trader, so I'll be able to, like, do it that way.

That's a baller, man. And there was a meme of him. The other piece of the, I was going to say, the other piece of the effective altruism is like, they really use, like, they wanted to be evidence based that like,

you know, every dollar going in is like having like, you know, sort of like the greatest possible impact is like one of their, their big things. Like how measurable is the impact? Dude, this guy's great.

There's a funny meme of him going around. Basically this guy, his name's Sam Bankman free, Google him and he looks like you'd want him to look. So he's kind of like a chubby, Jewish guy who wears, There's like new balance shoes and like high socks and cargo shorts and like an army green t-shirt and like shaggy hair and a huge Timex watch.

Like it looks like he looks like you look. Yeah. And he, there's a picture of him on stage and it's like this beautiful interviewer. And then on his left is like Giselle. And on the right is like some other model like, how do you clume? I forget. Like these like, you know, smart like business women who are just like the most gorgeous people you've ever seen and he's sitting in the middle and they're all like looking at him

and it's like get you get you a person who will look at sam bankman freed like joselle looks at him or something like that and it's hilarious yeah yeah he's just kind of hunched over oblivious to the whole thing it's great is he like uh what makes him special um you know that's hard to say i haven't met him we've met some of the other like kind of people the ftx team like for example but their head of strategy is like 25 years old or something like that. It might be 24 and he's like the head of strategy there. He like started off in customer service and is now the head of strategy. And so I think they just like, if I could just kind of comment on like what you see as the culture for them is like they go hard.

What I mean by that is like they're like they're really sharp. They're like kind of like quants. And then they like work like it just seems like they work very hard. And they move as fast as crypto moves, which is very, very fast. And they didn't like, there was no like invisible walls for them. Like the company is based in the Bahamas. They grew like crazy. When they wanted to do marketing, they're like, okay, go get Steph Curry and Tom Brady and like,

you know, Larry David. And that's who's going to be our spokesperson or whatever. Like they like pulled no expenses. They named, they like bought arena. Like he called somebody. I know the guy who, we met the guy who did the athlete rights for them. And basically he was like, yeah, we got on a call. And I was like, okay.

So like, what are your goals with like, you know, sports sponsorships to help, you know, FTCS? How are you going to measure this? He goes, how much does it cost to have the Yankees Stadium, renamed to FTX stadium? It's like, yeah, I don't think that's even like for sale. He's like, okay, what about every ad inside the stadium? And he's like, that's a lot, man. Like, maybe we should just like kind of like crawl before we walk and before we run. And he's like, I think it would be most effective if we go get Tom Brady and Steph Curry and Yankees.

Like, you go do that and then tell me when you have them. You know, like that was essentially the call. And it was like, you know, name your price. And like that's what they did. And guess what? They got all of them. And it's like a pretty impressive strategy where it's like there's not like any like, you know, tiptoeing around in. I love those people.

I call them freaks and I love them. I love these freaks. I love freaks. He also was one of my favorite Twitter followers. Like I don't know if you follow. Do you follow him on Twitter? he posts awesome threads that are like not like again it's not propaganda for his company but it actually is effectively propaganda for the company so he'll just be like you know

here's my thoughts on like raising money here's what actually happens and he'll be like yeah investors they want to do this and at first i thought uh that's just self-serving bullshit but then i realize actually the game theory is this and then he like just talks he'll just lay out these long threads and like he's like look i'm not saying this is ftx's point of view this is like my late night thoughts about this topic. And when you see him think out loud, you're like, oh, wow, this guy's just incredibly sharp. And he sees both sides of it. He's kind of like an independent thinker.

And so he's one of the best follows on Twitter. Do you think working with him, do you think that he's obviously has some intensity, but is he like a hustle, hustle, like let's work like this alpha type of guy? No, I don't get that vibe. I don't get Wolf of Wall Street. I don't get the, he's not, Genghis Khan took over 30% of. of the thing. It's like, it's more like obsession meets like, you know, I don't know if this got cut. I think it's got cut out of our previous podcast where we were like, we kind of admire the like Asperger's

personality because it has like the ability to like focus really intensely and the ability to like think not like think for yourself and not think just like, oh, what is the norm? What's the societal norms? Like let me just go with that. So to me, it's like when he says that let's go get the Yankees and Tom Brady, it's not because like let's go swing our big D around here and let's go show who's boss it's like well it seems like the most effective thing to do if we're trying to build trust would be go to the most trusted athletes and like get them and on a cost you know a cost per you know fan basis they're actually the most effective even though the total gross dollar bound is higher right like to me that's how his brain works not like you know it would be sweet dude if we go get like let's go get the

fucking jakees bro like it's not that and so um and so he just looks at a chart and he's like uh what's has the largest reach okay that makes sense yeah just whatever's number one on that chart just do that. Right. Exactly. Like, well, if this has the arbitrage, then like, let's put all of our money into it and like, let's hedge it over here. Like that, it's more like that. And so, and so I think that when they, in the same way, like the intensity of the company is high, but I don't think it's because it's like, bro, we got to grind if we want to make it. You know, like, you know, oh, you take weekends off, you know, you're soft, you know, like it's not that. It's more like, oh, I haven't eaten in 36 hours because I've just been like really interested in this problem.

And I'm staring at my screen and I forgot to eat and I forgot to shower. And I also, I guess I'll just sleep on this beanbag because that way I don't need to commute. Because commuting waste at least, you know, an hour a day. And like, why would I waste an hour of my day? Like, you know, I'm just, I can sleep on this beanbag. In fact, it's ergonomic or whatever. You know, like, I think that's more how the brain works where it's like this hyper rationalism is what I would call it. Do I wonder what he's like as a CEO?

Like, do you think he holds one-on-one meetings and like, because he just does not look like, Well, we should have him in the head of whatever. They wanted to come on the pod. So I think they're protecting him a little bit. Like he's now super busy with like press obligations or whatever. Like so they're, I think they were trying to have like their number two guy in the company come on the pod. And so this guy Brett.

So I think he'd be really interesting too. But I, you know, everybody wants SBF because he looks like he's the Zuckerberg, right? Like Cheryl might be the secret weapon and the one who actually runs the show. But like, Zuck is this like alien character that people are fascinated with. and they want to like poke them and be like, oh, look, it moves, you know? And so I would love to get Sam on. I wouldn't mind having a guy who is his boss, you know, a guy who works for him. As long as the guy coming on would be cool.

We're only going to ask you about Sam. Is that cool? Yeah. I don't think you understand the assignment. We don't care about like you. That's not annoying, right? Yeah. Dude, it's like if I meet someone who's like, oh, man, love the podcast.

I'm like, dude, great. So glad to meet a fan. And he's like, Sam's so awesome. What's it like to be around Sam? Oh, fuck you, dude. I'm busy. Like, I'm like a sitter talking about Sam.

We had a couple of guests and they're like, cool. And they like say like, oh, yeah, I worked with Steve Jobs. And like, wait, wait, wait, all right. Let's just, let's just only focus. Scrap your current thing. So as long as they're okay, like, if they understand the assignment, that it's strictly a, like, we're just here to like learn But Joe Rogan had this guy who worked at SpaceX,

and they talked about what it's like to work for Elon. And I was like, oh, let's just only focus on that thing. The old go-to-space stuff is cool, but just tell me what it's like to work with Elon. And that's what we... As long as they understand, that's the assignment. I'm on board. Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess. But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot. Grow better. Here's another kind of like interesting, like intensity, teamwork thing that I think is, you know, close enough transition.

Have you seen this business called A team? A team? I think it's just a letter A and then dot team is their website. Well, you know that's like a famous TV show, right? You remember Mr. T? Mr. T or whatever? Yeah. Yeah.

All I know is that much. I don't, I've never seen anything. So it's that same, like, I think they're kind of playing on that branding a little bit in the sense that like the idea is based. So they just raised $60 million. They raised it from NFX. So I really, NFX was early in them and said good things.

I respect NFX. So made me pay attention. Now, this is an idea that's been around. It's been tried. But maybe the time is right now. And so that's why this is interesting to me. So let me kind of give you my backstory of this idea. And I want to hear what you think,

if you think this is a good idea or a bad idea. So I once heard Naval on a podcast talk about like the future of work. And he was basically like, Navelle was like, you know, I don't buy this whole, I don't believe that we're going to live in a world where you work nine to five sitting in a desk in some office for one company and you work there for 30 years. And you already you see that shifting. Like instead of working at a place for 30 years, then getting your pension when you retire and they like, you know, have a cake cutting ceremony in the lobby for you as they send you off to your death. Like, okay, now people started to hop jobs more. And then people started to work. you know, remote and freelance. And Naval's thing was like, he's like, I think the future of work is like Ocean's 11. He goes, you're going to have your crew the same way that Ocean's 11 is this badass team of like, you know, you got the pick pocket guy, you got the ninja, you have the like the comms guy, you have the planner, you have the like, you know, the guy who can go gather intel.

You have the hot girl who's a distraction. And you have this, you got Brad Pitt, George Clooney. All right. So that's the team. And it's like, you're just going to get a message which says, all right, guys, round up. Like, we got one. We got a mission to go on. And everybody meets up and everything doing other stuff.

And it's like, what's the mission? Oh, like, you know, Ocean's 11th. We're going to rob this bank or whatever. And then for work, it's going to be like, all right, here's this brand that's trying to, whatever. They're killing the U.S. They're trying to expand into India. And so you might be the Ocean's 11 team that continuously gets called on to take a brand and expand them into India. And like you, you wake up, you get a page.

You know, your pager basically goes off and says, we need you. the bat signal is up. You all congregate. You've all worked together, so you know you come as a group who's good at accomplishing certain types of missions. You do those missions.

You rate each other. You rate the company that hired you. They rate you. You rate each other on your team. You go on your way and you get called in for the next mission. And the money hits your bank. And so Naval kind of describes this thing.

And he's like, you won't just have one team. Like you'll probably float around with a couple teams. Like if you're the pickpocket, you've got like three teams that can call on you. And it just works that way.

So you get reputation that's built not on a resume, but through this like verified ratings of like I've actually worked with this person. You have not continuous work. You get called on when there's a mission. You sprint. You crush it. Then you relax until the next mission.

You can work as much or as little as you want. You may or may not even know the identities of the other people. You could be like my name is, my nickname is just whatever star wing. And I just go in and people know me a star wing. And I just, that's how I work. And like that's the future of work.

So that kind of fascinated me when he described it. He did it in the Naval way. which was like, you know, one-tenth of the words I just used, but twice as interesting. And now I'm starting to see some startups pop-up that are doing this. And to me, A-Team is an idea of that where they're like, oh, you want to build an e-commerce website. Well, we have the designer, the front-end developer, the back-end developer, and the like conversion optimizer. And, like, they'll just swoop in and they'll just do it for you. And like two weeks, you'll get a better product than whatever.

And here's the big lump sum payment you do for that team. This is so amazing. I saw a meme the other day where it was a guy. He goes, I so look forward to the day where I'm just sitting at a bar and a stranger walks up and says, I'm put together a team. And I look at them and respond, I'm in, when do we leave? And it was just like that. Yeah, I live in the duffel bag, you know. Yeah.

I'm putting together. I'm putting the team together. You in? Dude, this is awesome. Their site is amazing. This is one of the best landing pages I've seen in a long time. It's a dot team. Look at the landing page.

It's pretty good. The hero image is really good. And then, yeah, the examples are good. It just so succinctly describe what they're doing. So you just get on, you just log on and you see it. It's a relatively strange concept. And they describe it in like two sentences wonderfully. This is awesome.

I'm not sure. I don't, I think it's quite bold to say it's the future of work. I don't think that that's what it is. But I think it's like a subset of. freelancing. That's going to be amazing. Yeah, exactly. It's not everybody, but in the same way, like, the gig economy made it so that, you know, I can, like, a thing that didn't happen 10 years ago or whatever, like, was you wake up, you, like, hop in your car, you open up your phone, this guy wants a ride over here, drive over there,

pick him up, drop them off, cash at your bank, you know, you, you made $16 for that ride. Oh, you want to go, you want to stop working because you want to go pick up your daughter from school, you swipe to log off, you're off work now, you want to get back on later, you know, at midnight and take people to the airport. All right, you can do that again. Like that whole gig economy thing where your phone just gives you jobs, like gives you work that will just pay you small micro like payments off your micro tasks. That's pretty cool.

And that's like a thing that Uber and like TaskRabbit and DoorDash all brought to the table. So I feel like there might be the next version of that, which is like for highly skilled cross-discipline. Like I know I could do this. For example, like I have three or four people where it's like, that's the great developer. this is the great designer. I'll be the marketing guy, and this guy will be the,

you know, whatever, the problem is that they're not available, like to do stuff. And this is creating an opportunity for them to be available. But if, like,

I've gone on, I've gone into the Shopify marketplace and I've used Upwork. And oftentimes when I use Upwork, it's just like a guy in India who's like the face and he's got like a team of like eight guys. And like,

isn't that kind of what's already happening? They just packaged this in a far more sophisticated and sexy way. Yeah. They did in a more sexy way. And I think it's more for premium like things. So like in the same way that like if you don't want the India thing, but you want like sort of like what an agency does.

But what typically what agencies do is they specialize, they specialize in one vertical. So it's like we do SEO. We do Facebook ads. We do copywriting. And what this is saying is like, no, you're trying to launch a marketplace.

You're trying to launch a new NFT marketplace. Well, you're going to need somebody who's great at email marketing. You're going to need an engineer who knows smart contracts. You're going to need a designer. You're going to need a social media person. So like whatever. They give you the six.

cross-disciplinary people that are good at building marketplaces. And that's just like a different cut of the same idea of agencies. This is awesome. This is one of the cooler companies I think I've seen lately. This is amazing. Yeah. How'd you find this? Because the guys I follow at NFX, they were like, hey, this company's grown really fat.

Like, fast. I forgot what they said, but it was like growing super fast. And I was like, how fast? And, you know, that's when I started looking to it. And it reminded me of that, like, that dreamy idea that Naval had brought up. And I was like, oh, maybe now with COVID, maybe now the time has changed where like there's enough really talented people that are no longer like locked into jobs. Because they're at home. And they've got like all.

They've got like all the right people. If you go to like their team, it says that their their featured advisors are the guy who started Fiverr, which is crazy. The guy who started Fiber also started Lemonade. That's pretty wild. The CEO of Upwork. So like they've got all the right people on board. Wow. Yeah.

This is an amazing company. This is a badass fine. I've never I'd never heard of these guys. Yeah, that's cool. All right, take another idea off this list and another topic of this list. Let's do that. Let's do that one. Yeah, I literally never read do docuSign.

I just sign. This is more like I just needed to verify with you. Do you also do this? Like, dude, when I get a docine, I'm not reading it. I'm not going to lie. You can scam me pretty easily. Have you seen in the South Park episode where like it's like what they do is they create, you know what a caterpillar is?

No. So it's like. Do I want to know? They take a chain of six people and they. Okay, I think I know. They sew their mouths to the person's butt and you just got to stay there. Okay. And Apple does that to people because it says it in the terms and conditions in iTunes when you sign up.

And the whole episode is like, whoa, Stan, you didn't read. the terms and conditions of Apple before you click. Yes, that's crazy. Of course, like, you have to go do a caterpillar now because that's what it said. I can't believe you didn't read it. And it's like this whole thing. But, dude, I've been getting docus signs lately

where they literally just send me the sign page. And they don't even send me. Yeah, it's people like, hey, here's the docketer. It's just one underline. It says, sign here. I'm like, sign what? What are they signing? Yeah, it's called a signature package.

And basically, I've got into context of a company, that I've invested in. They need me to sign paperwork for some reason because they're raising a new at a new valuation at a higher valuation. And they literally just send me the signature packet. And like I have it's four or six things. And I'm just, it just says like Sam Parr and the line and the signing. And I have no idea what I'm signing. And so yeah, like A, yes, I do that because I just don't read the stuff. And B, sometimes they don't even send me the stuff to read. They just signed. I have no idea what it means.

Do you get that? Yeah, I've been getting those and I'm like, I'm like, all right, it's one thing if I'm not going to read it. For you to not even write it, it's like a whole level, another level of arrogance here. And like, you know, poor form that we're taking. Yeah, it comes with like lawyer at fu.com and just sign this schmuck. Just like sign this nerd. I'm sure. There's law firms name Fuckman Banks.

What does that? What do those guys do? He was based in New York? Yeah. Why is Seymour Butts asking me to sign this stuff? They're just inventing me. Yeah. That's crazy.

It's like, you know, when people really want to get us to respond, they'll like Venmo us money or they're like pay palest money being like, oh, I'm being super creative to like to reach you to get you to read by message or whatever. And I'm like, ah, it doesn't really, doesn't really work. I don't really like that. And it makes me feel uncomfortable. and like, you know, generally the people I want to meet never do that. So I'm like, you know, generally this is not a good signal for you. The other day, these guys were emailing me to try their stuff and they're like, what are you soft?

You're not up for the challenge? And I was just like, I am not up for the challenge. And they just replied with, okay. I'm not up for the challenge. I think people, they hear us on here and we're joking. around and they're like, ah, what if I take that joke to the next level and I make it weird? And they don't know me. And they somehow think that's going to work.

It's like, this works as me and Sam have known each other for like 10 years. And the jokes are meant to be jokes. They're not serious. And it's like, then you take the, you take that same idea, you make it serious and you do it from a stranger. It's like, no, no, no. It's not the same thing. Yeah. I actually don't like the annoying.

The other day, this guy sent me an email. And in the subject line, it said, like, you know, like, you're a C-word sucker. And he's like, major open. And I was like, oh, I don't like that. That I find that to be inappropriate and not cool. Like, I'm not on board with that. And that's what he said. But I can totally see how somebody would listen to this podcast and think, ah, they'll love that.

Yeah. Like, why are you approaching me? It's like, that's what we're doing. We're like, oh, I love this copywriting and, you know, just do what you got to do. And for the hustle, I was super annoying getting people to be conference speakers. Like, yeah, but I don't like when it happens to me. Yeah. I didn't call someone like a little bitch.

Like, people will call me that. They're like, what's up, you little bitch? Like, dude, I don't know you. Who was doing that? Somebody was doing that. Somebody who worked for us was doing that, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have not calling them out, but they called us a little bitch.

And I'm like, dude, you're an intern. Don't talk to me like that. Like, my friends don't even call me a little bitch. Like, what are you talking like that for? It was like, I think it was an intern that called us that. Oh, I know. I think it was a brayu. A brayu.

You said, got us a little bitch on. I wasn't going to call them out. You're like, I'm not going to call them out. Oh, unless it's a bray you, in which case. It was a brayew. He was our producer. and he'd be like, uh,

time to work, you little bitch or something. Dude, don't talk to me like that. I don't talk to you like that. It's like, why are you calling me that? Yeah.

Yeah, but you came in really hot. Um, you came in really hot. What's this? Yeah, no, I mean,

I love them. And he could talk to me that now that we're friends and not co-workers. But when we were coworkers, I was like, dude, I was like offended. I was like,

please don't call me that. That, that I don't like that. Zalinski deep fake? What's that? Oh, wait, no, what's the issue of the internet? That's a longer one. I went down this rabbit hole of like the history of the internet, like how it came out.

Pretty crazy. Just crazy stuff. I'm not going to do that one right now. That one's too long. But, okay, so Zilinski deepfake. So people know about deep fakes, which is like, I think a lot of people who listen to probably know about deep fakes. But if you don't, it's basically the way that you can Photoshop a picture to kind of like

edit and make it look a certain. way and it looks real but like oh no that's been photoshopped you can now do that with video which kind of means it's not as easy right it's not it's not yet there are some but like you know in a small way like the snapchat face filter is essentially like a bit of a deep fake there's this app i've seen the baby one or the one where it makes you sad and cry no is that on sat down yeah or it's on Instagram I think they like show someone's face and they're like hey Sean why you so sad why you're crying and you're like what I'm not crying at all but like it looks like you're crying and sad and like it's like that's one version of it then there's like this there's this app I forgot

what it's called moves or something like that's like some dance app but like you basically take a picture of yourself standing there and then it'll make it look like your body it'll make you look like a great dancer you could go post something on Twitter I think you might have done this where it's like I think that's where it's like I think that's where you found it I did it. It looked like I was breakdancing. Yeah, you're like breakdits. It's like, yeah, just jamming out on a Wednesday. It's like, whoa, Sam can break dance. Then it's like, it looks not quite right. Wait a minute. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's like a deep fake, basically. It's a deep fake.

And so this, but they're getting better and better. Like, you'll see them do this with like, oh my God, did you hear Obama saying the N word? It's like, what? No. And then you watch this this video. It's like, it's a deep fake, but they could like mimic his voice and his lips moving and talking doing something. And then this is happening. It's like, it's becoming a big problem. the porn industry because people are doing this are like, oh, there's some girl in my college, and I'll just take her picture and I'll make it look like she shot this, you know, sex tape or whatever. And people are like, dude, that's like, you know, really effed up. But like the technology can do that, can do that now. It can basically make it look like somebody was doing something

that they never did. And so this is becoming a problem. And there's one with Zelensky, the Ukrainian president and president and president, prime minister, whatever he is. And like, there's this video going around of him talking. And it's a real, there's a real video. there's a real video. And then there's the deep faked video where it shows like a trail powder of cocaine on his desk. And the Russian propaganda is saying, like, look at this. Your president's breaking down. He's using drugs.

That's why he's saying all this crazy stuff. And they added some stuff in the background of the video. And I'm like, oh, man, this is just going to get super crazy of like, how do you know what you can trust? If you can't trust your eyes and ears anymore, like, how are we going to, like, prosecute crimes? How are we going to, like, prevent people from, like, just completely. slandering your reputation. Are we going to prevent people from, like, you know, like this was what people said that the Russians were doing with Hillary, like, during the election was like, they were

showing propaganda of like, Hillary said this about black people. They were promoting that in like predominantly black counties where they were trying to sway the vote and get them to not turn out for Hillary. And it's like it was fake, right? But it was like misinformation. And so to me, I'm like, this deep fake thing is going to be like a real, real problem. And I think there's opportunity. Well, there's one answer.

that a buddy was trying to work on, which was basically a way to, like, certify the, like, the original mint of the video. So it's like, you can basically encrypt the original video so that if anybody wants to see, like, oh, this video of this guy saying this crazy thing, is this, was this the, what was originally shot from the phone? And so he was trying to do that,

but really what you need is you need the phone makers to participate because it has to be done at, like, the hardware level. Because anything else it could be tampered with. It's like, well, if it's just a video file, I encrypt, I could just like encrypt it later. I could edit it first, then encrypt it. So it has to be done like as it's being shot,

you know, Apple and Google and Samsung or whoever these people are, they're going to have to bake it in where like every video comes with a seal of authenticity. And then that's going to be a cat and mouse game of like, can that be faked? Because you could put somebody in prison for like a fake murder, you know, like that's how crazy this is going to get if we don't have a way to fight against deep fakes. By the way, go to the chat of Riverside and click the link I just sent you. tell me what you think about that deep fake that's you you dancing

dude that's great yeah he said announcement while you guys have been taking this time to chill your boys have been learning to dance get on my level and it's a video of you okay so get get get sway so sway is the name of the app so get sway dot app is the name of the thing that's hilarious

although it made you look a little chunky here you look a little bit like will feral in this video so you know well yeah you could dance but it also looks like you put on like the COVID-30. I was, that was pre-influencer. Well, but it's like glitching. It's like, it's like, it's not the, it's not your actual thing.

It's like, because you're moving so fast, it's like, it has to make it fuzzy. It can't have like a really sharp like line. It's pretty good, though. For just a app. I mean, click left. Go to the left one. There's another one. I mean, it's pretty amazing for just like a free app.

What do you mean? What do you mean click left? There's no left. There's a video to your left. on the next picture to the left. On your profile? I mean, it's a pretty amazing. What's the app called? Get Sway?

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's pretty amazing. Yeah. I hope some smart people out there are working on deep fakes. I'm curious what people are going to do. The only solution I know is doing it at the hardware, the operating system level, and even that's probably not perfect.

But if somebody does figure out a perfect way to do this, that's going to be very, very valuable technology. And I saw the Obama thing. Yeah, they made them kind of say some crazy shit. Yeah, man. I agree. It is kind of scary. Well, Ben, what do you think?

How do we do? We got giddy early. Very eclectic. Very eclectic. But like all very interesting stuff. And the cola stuff was all time. Can't wait to drink a cola with you guys. What was your favorite one?

Your favorite non-Cola doing the Cola one, which ones you like? I think eating caramel also is my favorite. It's just simple and amazing. It's so unexpected. I think my favorite was actually, we were just eating spaghetti kissing in the middle when all of a sudden. Me and my co-founder were doing the kissing the spaghetti thing where you each take one end

put in your mouth getting me in the middle. And what we realized was that the recession. Yeah. And then we realized. Yeah, that's a good one. But the thing about co-founders is, it's like, you don't address the first part. And you got to do this like in a keynote.

It's like a product, like a Steve Job product at an announcement. And never address it and never laugh. We're just sitting in the office grabbing each other's butts and then it hit us. Why stop there? You know? All right. This is great.