My Mom's Basement - EPISODE 160 - TONY KHAN/CM PUNK

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

AEW President Tony Khan stops by Barstool HQ just a few days out from one of All Elite Wrestling's biggest weekends yet to discuss SmackDown going head-to-head with Rampage on Friday, the loaded card for Dynamite on Saturday, and more! CM Punk joins Robbie afterwards to break down his return, preview his match coming up against Matt Sydal, and more. 3Chi: Use code MMB at checkout to receive 5% off at 3Chi.com Bearbottom Clothing: Use code BASEMENT at BarebottomClothing.com for $5 off your first order Rothy's: Go to Rothy's.com/BASEMENT to see what the hype is all about Subscribe to My Mom's Basement on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIeZ96PqdsJYQ7DFLRx6MHw My Mom's Basement Merchandise: https://store.barstoolsports.com/collections/my-moms-basement Intro Music: “Basement Noise” by All Time Low Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/basement-noise/1499013757?i=1499013968 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/3Aq9W9BBCjsFOQqcYyO6IA?si=d9d0f74cf54a48deYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey, My Mom's Basement listeners. You can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Just stupid boys making basement noise in the basement, noise in the basement. Just stupid boys making basement noise in the basement. Yeah, yeah. Hello and welcome to My Mom's Basement presented by 3G and Barstool Sports. I am your host, Robbie Fox, and today I have an awesome wrestling episode for you featuring interviews with AEW president Tony Khan and the best in the world CM Punk. Before we get into that let me remind you about our presenting sponsor

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different strains the eight balls are available in packs of 5 25 there's tons of stuff on their website for you to check out i promise you go to 3 to 3chi.com. That's the number three, chi.com to shop for vapes, gummies, tinctures, and oils that can be used to make homemade edibles as well. Use the promo code MMB at checkout. You'll receive 5% off your complete order. Let's get into the first of these two interviews with AEW president, Tony Khan. Hello, and welcome back to My Mom's Basement. I am here with Tony Khan. We are here at Barstool HQ ahead of Rampage. We've got a Saturday Night Dynamite this week. And a Friday Night Rampage. Friday Night Rampage is an awesome card. We've got CM Punk versus Matt Seidel. I just saw it's their first match on television in 10 years. It's awesome, right? It's crazy, yeah.

How are you? Happy belated birthday. Thank you, Rob. Are you in New York to speak at a conference today? I am. I'm speaking at a conference, but also I came to speakated birthday. Thank you, Rob. Are you in New York to speak at a conference today? I am. I'm speaking at a conference. But also, I came to speak to you. I mean, honestly, any chance I get to come in here and it's great to be able to do the show with you is a real pleasure. And I was excited to catch up ahead of like a huge week of AEW because Barstool has got one of the best fan bases for wrestling and sports. And you've got one of the best shows and i was just excited to visit so uh and we have a lot to plug because like friday night rampage huge card you mentioned punk versus side l that's a huge headline match plus uh we have of course ruby soho versus the bunny big implications tbs tournament coming up this could uh you know uh affect who's going to be

involved somebody could get hurt before the tournament. And then to have, of course, Jorge Masvidal coming and be in the corner of Junior Dos Santos, the former UFC heavyweight champion, teaming with Scorpio Sky and Ethan Page, who are both very tough guys themselves. Scorpio Sky, former AEW tag champion, got a winning MMA record. And Ethan Page, a double black belt, which a lot of people didn't know about Ethan Page. And a very tough man himself going against Chris Jericho, Jake Hager, undefeated MMA fighter and pro wrestler world champion,

and Sammy Guevara, the TNT champion. So it's a huge card. New TNT champion. Friday Night Rampage. And Brian Danielson versus Bobby Fish. Come on. Saturday Night Dynamite, Brian Danielson versus Bobby Fish come on Saturday Night Dynamite Bryan Danielson versus Bobby Fish and something that I'm making clear just for the first time

today in New York is there's going to be the buy-in before Rampage I'm going to do a live YouTube nine o'clock on Friday night ahead of the 10 o'clock Rampage we're going to put in a badass live card like we would for one of our great pay-per-views. There's going to be a buy-in for Friday Night Rampage. And I'm telling you right now, ahead of the Bryan Danielson match, I'm really going to test Bobby Fish. I'm going to have Bobby Fish,

and this is the first time I've said this anywhere in the world. I'll put it out here and break it on your show, Rob, that Bobby Fish is going to wrestle one of the best young wrestlers, Lee Moriarty, on the buy-in., on the buy-in. And on the buy-in, Bryan Danielson himself. I'm going to book a match for Bryan Danielson, too, live ahead of his Bobby Fish match.

It'll be fair Saturday night. They'll both go in on a day's rest and have another match on Saturday Night Dynamite. But Friday night is going to be a huge night of wrestling. It's a huge weekend for the fans. It sucks to not be on Wednesday night this week, to be honest. We are on this great run. Recently, we had six straight weeks as the number one show on all cable and satellite on Wednesday night. The show is huge thanks to the great fans and great support of Barstool and great outlets that give AEW coverage and have allowed AEW to come from

literally nothing, nowhere, two years ago to be now in the eyes of many, many people, over a million fans, the number one wrestling company in America. Thanks to you guys. And I just am like really fired up, even though we're not on Wednesday, the next couple of weeks, what it allows us to do is make these big weekend events. We do Friday night rampage every week on TNT, but then this week we get to do Friday Night Rampage and Saturday Night Dynamite. And to be able to come during the week, at least with no Dynamite, I can come up in the middle of the week instead of setting up for Dynamite

and visit you and do your show. Well, I appreciate that. We have a lot to talk about because you really made a lot of headlines this week on Twitter. It all started with a tweet where you said, I saw you're doing a half an hour head-to-head with us. I can't wait to finally beat your main show head-to-head. It's been a long time coming.

See you next Friday for AEW Rampage. Of course, talking about SmackDown is running over a half an hour. This made so many headlines all over Twitter. It's the second time that they've decided to go head-to-head with us, and I want for the fans to be able to watch all the wrestling. I'll coin a phrase right now that I'll use from now on. W-Y-W. Watch your wrestling. I want people to watch your wrestling. Whatever you want to watch, watch it. And a lot of people have chosen to watch AEW because it's the best show. Watch your wrestling. And I want people to be able to watch everything. So it's the second time they've

chosen to put their wrestling head to head with mine. And the last time they did it, it didn't happen overnight. But really from the start, AEW consistently did better numbers than NXT. And we eventually won that war. And AEW is now the Wednesday night show. Wednesday night Dynamite has had a great run. And we'll be back on Wednesday in two weeks. But doing the show on Saturday this week, Friday, Saturdays, a big weekend for us. And now on Friday, they're doing a half hour head-to-head with Rampage,

which is new. That's not something we've really allowed the shows to coexist. I put my show on, you know, consciously after SmackDown, knowing there's a huge audience of people that watch that show. And there's a lot of people

that are going to watch Rampage, which has been a hit for TNT. And we've had nights where we've been number one. We've been in the top 10, top 20 consistently as a top show on cable. And it's like, for me, I want Rampage to be just as big as Dynamite in time. And Dynamite's consistently been number one. So my goal is for the show to be the top cable show.

And if they're going to do a show on cable, that's great. We're competing for that. But they're literally going to do a half hour head-to-head with us. That's fine. And we'll see what happens. I'm not saying for sure we'll win. for that but they're literally going to do a half hour head-to-head with us that's fine okay and we'll see what happens i'm not saying for sure we'll win and maybe the odds are against us in some ways but we're going to do the better show i know and if you don't believe me watch whether go home show they did last night because it sucked and that shit yeah yeah i'm am i am i did you watch

it last night no i didn't have you heard it was bad? Yeah, I did. Okay. And that's the prevailing opinion. I watched Scream last night for the first time. Good movie. I saw you said that, and you said it hit the ground running. It's a great movie, and I'm glad you watched it. It's great.

David Arquette's a really nice guy. I have big wrestling fans. Yeah. I mean, big wrestler as well. He's WCW champion. And he did Family Feud with our own Jungle Boy and Peter Avalon. And he's a great guy, David Arquette. But that's a great movie. And I'm glad you watched it because like you said,

it hit the ground running. And I saw you tweet that. What did you think about the rest of it? I thought it was fantastic. Great mystery. Great acting. Great, you know. Bunch of false finishes. Bunch of false finishes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's a great scary, the original scary movie. The ones after it, I didn't like as much. But the original scary movie is like a pretty good satire yeah like the was up right yeah but that not that there's a bunch of like little moments the wayans brothers are pretty great but like if you've seen the original scream there's like moments in the original scary movie you're like oh that's actually very fun exactly um i like the wayans brothers um speaking of things that we were

tweeting about this week you responded to one of my tweets and this statement i feel like got a lot of traction on reddit it was all over like message boards and you said twitter is the child of the board and chat rooms that thrived during the 90s wrestling war and that part of your business plan was recreating that competitive spirit avoiding wcw's errors as someone that was an internet wrestling fan in the late 90s what was that like is it similar to today it is in some in many ways what's happening right now is similar to what happened as the 90s went on. And right now I'd say we're into the 96 phase, where big free agent moves have started to happen.

WCW started to get a lot of traction in 94, when Hulk Hogan and then Randy Savage later that year came over, and WCW built, they already had a nice foundation of stars and then Nitro happened in 95 and really I think what's happening right now in many ways is similar because in 96 there was a huge wave of free agency again and even though not every business metric turned, you saw big growth for WCW and it continued and continued and I think had they not made some mistakes but also they did a lot of great things along the way that nobody else has ever done big growth for WCW and it continued and continued and I think had they not made some some mistakes but also they did a lot of great things along the way that nobody else has ever done and and

still nobody's done in the history of the wrestling business so you can't take those contributions lightly but I think they would have had a much better chance to sustain and succeed and be around a long time had they uh not burned through a lot of the matches which is something I'm very conscious of and it's why's why I have a really deep roster, but do different matches that are exciting for the fans each week, but know that we're not going to burn through every combination of matches because I think, first of all, we have maybe more young stars that we develop,

and I think one of the mistakes WCW made in hindsight was they never got to see through the growth of their young stars. Even if the company had stayed in business, Chris Jericho was gone, and Eddie Guerrero was gone. And can you imagine, you know, for me, I think the young equivalent of those people, say, like, MJF, Darby Allin, Britt Baker, Jungle Boy, these people are really important, and they're part of AEW long-term, both in my plans and literally under contract.

Look at Adam Page, the return of the Joker, that big pop. That's an AEW talent right there. And I think of him as a little more established. Everyone I named before I think of as a homegrown star. He was obviously part of the Bullet Club and wrestled on big shows in New Japan, sure. And then him coming in with Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks. But absolutely, he maybe made his name even more so in AEW. And what's happening with Kenny and Hangman right now is very exciting.

Did you like the ladder match? Oh, I loved it. Yeah, it was incredible. I saw what you tweeted. I think you tweeted, like, everyone should put it on, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for tweeting. That was organic, and I didn't know you were going to say that, but I'm glad you felt that way because it was a great match,

and it really delivered, I think. It feels like up there, it's like... It feels like they're having a ladder match up there. They're on a think uh it feels like up there it's like it feels like they're having a ladder match up there on a rampage what's happening on friday the hell is going on up there construction or something no i mean you have a combination of those six guys and then the joker in a ladder match i was like yeah i know for a fact that this is going to be amazing there's no chance it's not going to be thanks um what was your wrestling username on the message boards i know you remember i have a coach tony k coach tony k was back in the day and uh tony flair

okay tony so you were like i'm rick's bro i'm uh rick's son i guess yeah no i'm not maybe like a nephew um and how have internet wrestling fans changed over the years? Do you feel like they're more negative? In many ways, it's very similar. I think that the 90s was the first time the wrestling fans really, where there was a higher enough percentage of them where people wanted to do the job I do, be the booker. And that's really what you'd face.

And it's kind of like in NFL. Everybody thinks when you watch the game along the lines of what you would do if you were the coach, what plays you would call, when you would call timeout, when you would challenge. And it's one of the things that makes football compelling. And it's also something that makes wrestling compelling in the job that I do and that Vince does in WWE. And in terms of being somebody that actually oversees like matchups and who's going wrestle who, and booking shows and making plans. And so I think it's actually like there's now more so a higher percentage of the fans are that kind of fan where they think, okay, what should the next match be?

What should the next show be? Why should this match go long? Why should this match go first or second? There's a lot of thinking. And now I think it's probably a higher percentage of the fans are hardcore fans than there were then. But there was this hardcore audience that really built. And I was there early to watch it through the tape trading and the newsletters. So it's pretty cool, man.

And there's a whole new generation of fans like yourself and all the great Barstool fans. And people, I know one thing about wrestling there's so many cool things you learn from watching wrestling whether it was as a child i learned geography vocabulary like from watching wrestling you can like learn things from watching wrestling and it's like really shaped me as a person and i think like i you know by doing good stories and providing like good matches i just think it's cool because, like, people wake up in the morning, like, caring about who the AEW champion is. Yeah.

And, like, that matters to people. So it's been a long time, I think, since the title meant that much to somebody. And, like, I know I want the title to stay important. And the shows, I just really believe as long as we keep doing, like, good shows that the fans, like, want to see, then we're going to keep our audience. And that's one of the things that I think, I really believe 20 plus years ago, WCW took their fans for granted a bunch of times. And I don't ever take you guys for granted. And that's one of the reasons I try to keep a lot up my sleeve, fresh matches,

fresh stars, and constantly trying to make the show better yeah we're right down the road from Madison Square Garden right now does that building appeal to you as as a promoter do you want to run Madison Square Garden AW uh it appealed to me at one point more so than it but now I have Arthur Ash and we have this feel like that's the home of AW in New York now I think it's one of the homes of it certainly in New York City I think it's the of the homes of, and certainly in New York City, I think it's the home of AEW. We have great things in the market and the area, but really New York's a bunch of markets. So in the New York City market, and particularly what we have up there in Queens,

it's very special. And I would love to come down here. We have UBS, what an amazing fan base we have in Long Island, and the numbers we've done for our pre-sale in UBS are pretty amazing. You know, and I love going over to Newark, and there's great fans there, but being in New York City was fantastic. Grand Slam in many ways is one of the biggest

success stories we've ever had. So I definitely want to keep coming back to Arthur Ashe. And for MSG, I mean, it's been appealing to me, but you know, there's been a lot of wrestling there, whereas we're the only wrestling there's ever been. For Arthur Ashe, the Grand Slam is very special to AEW. Yeah. Where does that rank on, like, proud moments for you? Grand Slam. Pretty high. I think All Out and Grand Slam are near the top. I mean, the last few months have been great.

It's a great time to be a wrestling fan and get into it, I think. And when you're watching that opening match, that Kenny Omega-Brian Danielson match, like, you have to be pulled out of promoter mode a little bit, right? By how great that was. Yeah, but it's hard to get pulled out. Are you still thinking about everything? No, but because how great that was. Yeah, but it's hard to get pulled out. Are you still thinking about everything? No, but because I have to time.

Oh, wow. And that was a very important match to be impressed with the time because they did a 30-minute draw. And it's one of the best matches you'll ever see, 30 minutes of just great wrestling. And really, I mean, from the entrances to up to the 30 minutes of wrestling, I mean, the fans were so into it from the very bell. And it was one of the most compelling wrestling television events ever,

and I think people will go back and watch it for many years. So I definitely soaked up the moment, but I also have to be very present because I always have to keep track of the time of the show. When it comes to how Bryan Danielson's character has been booked, I'm such a big fan of his, and it feels like he's booked similar to Lee to how he was prior to WWE kind of like the American Dragon style I'm gonna kick everyone's head in I'm the best I don't care who knows it was that more your decision or his it's us it's us it's a collaborative thing and it's like it's

working together that's what I believe in is like whether it's with from the very beginning with Chris Jericho or the Young Bucks or Cody Rhodes, sitting with people, making plans together. And as I've gone on from 2020 and 2021, especially once I got out of the first few months, I've been incredibly organized and hands-on, dealing with each program, each person in major stars, major programs, and even down to the low programs. And I'm very intricate when it comes to booking scenarios, booking matches, and stories.

Jericho, from the very beginning, is a great star. Coming in, working with someone with that kind of experience, he had great ideas, I have a lot of ideas, so it's putting them together and trying to come up with good stories. That's what it's been like with Bryan Danielson, and also with CM Punk. Like we sat together before he ever came on TV and we had built a really good relationship

and a friendship and then sat down together and put together the ideas for the first dance, which was, you know, his idea to come as a surprise. And the first dance was my thought, the name of, you know, after I'd seen the last dance and it's like, well, this is only the beginning and this is like, would be something really cool, and he loved that,

and it was a way to combine the surprise with the big box office event, and we had the... I thought it was almost better that the surprise was also so talked about, because the first shot of the crowd chanting CM Punk and then the music hitting was, like, it made it better. It was like when Jericho debuted on Raw,

and people in the crowd had the signs already that said, Raw is Jericho. Like, you want that. And we teased it a little more so even with Darby's line, which I was the only, you know, only Punk and I knew about what it was going to be. We had sat down and worked out this plan, and I had this line for Darby, and then I was at TV, and I gave it to him in the promo that he did with Sting, so they knew. And then when they said it, the whole wrestling world exploded, and things have never been the same for AEW. It's a great time for us.

No, it's crazy. And I see debates all the time on wrestling Twitter about how much Bryan Danielson and CM Punk have improved AEW and this, that. Can you share some insight into that? Well, first of all, they just got it. Literally, they both arrived last month. I mean, you know, Punk's been here on TV for almost two months, I guess, and Brian's just been here like on TV for only a few weeks really wrestling.

So, you know, both of them have already impacted us in terms of our pay-per-view. We've set our live attendance records for Grand Slam here. The YouTube numbers appear to be like skyrocketing too, right? Yeah. I mean, in terms of, yeah, like I said, both have had a huge business lift. I'd say since Punk came in before Brian and then now with Brian, we've seen at least six business metrics go up. And we've had our all-time records for pay-per-view,

those digital numbers, live and then attendance, all-time high. And we were already, before the pandemic, the number one attendance wrestling company in the world. And this is all viral. AEW is a company that's been around for just a couple years. We just had our two-year anniversary show last week. And it's pretty cool. And it's a movement, like, you know, very fitting in 2021. Like, same as Barstool, a viral movement that really rose up from

the fans believing in something and you guys have a great thing going here and have built something amazing uh i think it's very similar in the wrestling world because like yeah same as you guys everywhere you go people want to talk about what you do and they have you have these exciting young fans and i think it's similar to aw um we've been talking a lot about wrestling twitter and how in tune you are with it what's one thing that you feel wrestling twitter gets wrong on a constant basis that kind of frustrates you oh what a great question uh so that's a great question i think like the biggest thing is like somebody says something on wrestling twitter that's like a lie or makes a rumor up and then everybody takes it as a fact because this one person just made it up or tweeted so

yeah and people run with it and there's a lot of like things that have gotten traction you're just like if you know you're like that's not even true but like one person said that and you can almost track it back so and then there's just a lot of like you know stuff that's not true but then of course the flip side of it is you get people that like the what what then on the wrestling side of it you have people that tell these obvious things like i heard the other day bruce was saying like you know he'd never heard of kenny omega in 2019 and then literally they play the clip in 2018 and bruce is talking a year before very intricately about kenny so it's like give me a break man folks bare bottom is on a mission to make the most comfortable made to last menswear around while giving back to communities while their

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barebottomclothing.com slash basement that's b-e-a-r like the animal bottomclothing.com slash basement you'll get five5 off your first order. Go now. Yeah, that's tough. Are there any hardcore talks about the Owen Hart Cup yet? This is something I'm very fascinated about. I am going to make announcements. We're in due time.

But I think we've got a couple big weekends. It's unusual doing Dynamite on a Saturday, but we always do Rampage Friday night. So it's a great chance, like I said, to make a go of it. And especially for the young fans, let's go. It's Friday night Rampage Friday night, so it's a great chance, like I said, to make a go of it, and especially for the young fans, let's go. It's Friday night Rampage and Saturday night Dynamite. We can get after it and have a great weekend and party in Miami. For the fans that don't have weekend plans, it's going to be a kick-ass weekend. It'll be a lot of fun down there.

We're going to rage again, and it's great to be back there. And I think for, you know, when we're back on Wednesday night Dynamite I plan to make more announcements about the Owen and I just when we talked to Martha Hart originally Jericho who's another good friend of Barstool and a good friend of mine and Martha Hart's put uh Martha and myself together on zoom during the pandemic and we zoomed a bunch of times and built a friendship and I think Martha's got something really special that she wants to share with the wrestling world, which is the legacy of Owen Hart.

And it's up to her. And she has the choice of what wrestling company, if any, she ever wanted to work with to disseminate and really help build that indelible legacy of Owen Hart, this really great, important person in the history of pro wrestling. And I'm just glad that AEW is going to be, for a long time, the home of the legacy of Owen and the Owen. This tournament is going to be really special,

and we'll announce more about it. But I'm excited to tell you more. I can't wait for it. I'm a sucker for tournaments and wrestling. King of the Ring, the G1, give me any of those. You know what? This weekend, more information this weekend, we got Friday Night Rampage

on TNT, Saturday Night Dynamite. I'm sure you were a fan of the AEW Eliminator Tournament. Yes. And last year, it culminated in Kenny versus Hangman,

which is very fitting because now as we go into full gear this year, we're back and now Kenny's the world champion and he's facing Hangman as we saw last year. And of course,

Kenny won the Eliminator Tournament last year and ended up winning the title from Jon Moxley. Well, now we have this huge Eliminator Tournament coming up. I'm real excited about it. And we've got announcements coming up. I'll have the full bracket this weekend on TNT for the Eliminator Tournament that will culminate in the finals again at Full Gear. Wow,'t wait for that finally one more question for you is there any chance i can get an unsanctioned match against the guy who cut my mic when i was on dynamite yeah who cut your mic was that i don't know well i probably i mean you're not i don't know if you're a sanctioned wrestler man you have to get that's why i said unsanctioned i'll tell you what if you want to come down to you know there's

a few wrestling schools if you want to come train like i can't i'll never you know, there's a few wrestling schools. If you want to come train, like I can't, I'll never say no. You know, I did train for a summer. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where? In Raw Way. Pat Buck trained me. Pat Buck trained you for a summer? No kidding. Well, maybe. When I was in high school, I thought I wanted to be a wrestler. Well, this frame, it's a tough one. You know what? We might be able to do something. Let me look at that. All right. I'll show you. I took a super kick. I could take it. I could take a hell of a super kick. Well, I never say never, man. I'm sorry about your mic getting cut, though, and I appreciate you having me here. I'm glad my mic is working. It might not be by the time this comes out.

It might be all cut. No, but I appreciate it. And who knows, by the end of this interview, is Robbie Fox all elite? The dirt sheets are going to be talking. It could be. Maybe soon. All right.

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limited time. So right now you can get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com slash basement. That is R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com slash basement. Head to rothys.com slash basement to find your new favorites today. Hello and welcome back to My Mama's Basement, ladies and gentlemen. I am here with the one, the only, best in the world, CM Punk. Punk, this is the first time that you and I have spoken publicly since you even returned to wrestling. So I want to start off by saying congratulations.

And just as a fan, it's awesome to see you being happy out there having fun. Well, thank you. Yeah, it's it's fun again. So I'm gonna I'm gonna keep having fun. I really enjoy it, especially because apparently me having fun really upsets people. So I'm I kind of get the both the best of both worlds, whereas like I'm having fun doing something. And God damn it, if people just aren't upset about it. So I'm like, oh, good. That's fun. I mean, they'll find something to be upset about. Everyone will, you know, we're here ahead of a huge match.

You got against Matt Seidel on Friday. I looked into this. You guys have had to know each other for a while, right? Because you guys worked a tag match on TNA show in 2003. You got a few matches in IWA Mid-South in 2004. You had a few matches in WWE, the last of which was in 2012. You and Matt know each other? Of course. We've known each other so long that I don't even recall having a tag match with him in TNA in 2003. That's how long I've known him. Yeah, it was like a TNA

explosion tag, yeah. Yeah, thankfully. I blocked most of my tna experience uh out of my mind um or i'm just of that age where that's the fringe years where i just start to forget everything i've known matt a super long time and i he's he's super talented and i'm excited to to wrestle the 2021 version of them. I've really enjoyed the 2021 version of CM Punk, the match with Darby, the match with Hobbs, the match with Garcia. These are tremendous matches. Have you changed your approach to putting matches together since you returned? I mean, the first match with Darby,

the Bret Hart references in it and everything. I loved all of that. I'm not sure if I've changed anything. I'm still trying to remember how to do it you know um i'm very much one of those dudes that wants simplicity and i would rather just go out there and listen to the crowd you know have a couple of beats and just let the crowd take us to wherever we're going to go. Um, but after not wrestling for seven years and, you know, you're in the ring with people that you've never wrestled before. Um, you know, I, I re I realized my approach has to be, uh, you know, of a certain way. So when I say that I'm still getting my legs underneath me, it's in that regard, you know, it's just remembering, um, how to, how to do all this stuff. You know what I mean? I, I think it was easier when you're wrestling

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Um, but that's way harder on your body, you know, but, but mentally it's like a muscle you don't use. So you lose it. And I'm, I'm just slowly getting that back. Where do you fall on the philosophy of calling things in the ring or calling everything in the back like i know some wrestlers are very insistent on hey let's leave some things to the crowd you said you just said you like the crowd taking you where they take you so where do you fall on that I'm very much a guy that believes the less, the less you have called the more organic and better the match will be. You, I said, this is somebody backstage the other day. I said, Hey, you can't fuck up. If you have nothing planned, you just can't,

you just go out there and you wrestle. It's different when you've never wrestled somebody, you know, you know, gone are the days of two separate locker rooms and, you know, the referee telling you what the finish is and you get in the ring and you just do that. Not a lot of people would be able to do that nowadays. Do I think that's unfortunate? Yes. Am I going to be the old timer who complains about that? Maybe some days, but I also recognize that it that sort of a workload thing. I'll put it to you like this. I guarantee you if me and Bryan Danielson were booked on a show, we could go out there with nothing called and wrestle.

And I'm sure it would be fantastic and I would have fun and he would have fun. Certain people just don't have that experience. Yeah, it seems like, like you said, it's kind of the past era of the business and that kind of got left behind. So it is unfortunate because that is a really cool aspect of wrestling to me, even in heels, when they're calling things in the ring and they're doing the closeups and the whispers.

And like, I like all that stuff as a wrestling fan. I like knowing that this stuff was improvised. So I hope that it's not gone forever. I'll say that. Well, there's, there's a few people that are trying to bring it back, you know, and it's really just all about teaching and, you know, and still learning, you know, I'm still learning. So I'm sure there's people I can get in there with that can learn. You'll always be put in situations where you gotta, you gotta be ready for it.

So the more experienced with, you know, just calling stuff on where you, you gotta, you gotta be ready for it. So the, the more experienced with, you know, just calling stuff on the fly, you are, I think the better off you will be. We talked about Bret Hart a little bit because you had the references to that Bret Hart, one, two, three kid match. And I saw an interview with you recently where you were talking about his work, maybe holding up better in 2021 than Shawn Michaels. And I thought it was very interesting because I've seen this become a discussion on Twitter recently, whose work holds up better than a lot of people lean breaths because it doesn't rely so much on the athleticism and stuff like that.

Do you think about that as a wrestler today? How are my matches going to hold up in the future? Or are you just trying to put on the best match you can that night? No, I don't think too much. I don't think that far ahead you know i think i i already i stand on a body of work that you know um will stand the test of time and you know i i think uh most of my stuff when i finally got it you know holds up there's definitely some of my indie stuff that i i would probably watch and just cringe and laugh at. But I'm just approaching every match like kind of trying to be in the present and not so much worry about past stuff or what people are going to think about it 10 years in the future.

You know, like I'm very dialed into the present. Well, there's one match that I think has held up so well, and it's actually 17 years ago this week. It's in about three days, I think, is the anniversary. That's Punk versus Joe 2. It's the 60-minute time limit draw. I wanted to ask. Does it hold up?

I think it does. I really do. What do you remember about that night? 60 minutes is a long time. God, you know, when you do a 60 minute when you do a 60 minute match i i think you just you got to try to break it down into four 15 minute matches otherwise you'll your head will just explode um but again i'm not going to say that me and joe just went out there and had nothing called i'm sure there was definitely stuff that we had, you know, talked about,

but it's all the in-between stuff that I think is the most important in a match like that. I'm shocked to hear that holds up. I mean, 60 minutes is a long time to watch a wrestling match, you know, maybe I'm a sucker for Ironman matches because I also like the main event of WrestleMania 12. And I feel like revisionist history, people have been like people people were walking out, it stunk, rest holds. And I'm like, I love that match.

So I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a menu, right? Like everybody's got something on the menu that they're not going to order and they have their favorite and they want to try something different. But I think I'll just go ahead and get the meatballs.

I just, I loved wrestling Joe. I think he gave me a pretty good black eye that night. And then I think the next day I had to go get my new driver's license or something like that. So I had a, I had a nice shiner in my driver's license picture. I was, I was proud of that for years. Damn. That seems like it could be a cool t-shirt right now. Like a CM Punk driver's license where he's got a black eye.

Pretty sure I lost that driver's license where he's got a black eye pretty sure i lost that driver's license it's gone forever oh damn i thought there was a great segment in philly when the show went off the air with all the ecw originals and you ran out for it what do you look back on that wwe ecw era of your career like with any fond memories or was that just like i'm really struggling here yeah i got i mean i got a ton of fond memories, you know, like, you know, for, for, for every shit bag, I think that I had to deal with, there was somebody cool, like a Chavo Guerrero, you know what I mean? And like, I had known Chavo for years, obviously through Eddie. So he was like one of those guys that, you know, like he had been there for years already and the getting to work with him

was always a night off, you know, um, we got to do fun, cool stuff, but it was relaxed. Um, no pressure, uh, just the pressure to deliver, uh, you know, like match quality, like go out there and tell a story and have a kick-ass match. So, yeah i mean i got a lot of fond memories you know like i used to i think my first road family was uh shout out here doug basham and kevin furtig so those are two guys who were like in the system for a while they had been up the tv maybe got called back down and they were looking at just kind of keeping their noses clean and and holding on to their jobs so like we all just jumped in the car we'd all crash in a hotel room and those guys kind of helped me understand what life on the road was like uh tons tons of of fond memories of uh of early ecw stuff

i'm glad i it's so good to focus on like the positive stuff for once everybody always wants to know like the the negative stories and stuff like that so salute and yeah that ain't this show my mom's basement we're talking about the positives and everything one of those being you mentioned your relationship with Eddie Guerrero briefly there and that's how you knew Chavo Eddie wrote in his book that you and Ace Steele kind of took him in in that time where he was you know maybe in a bad place and he was on the Indies. And he said that he remembers nights where you guys would just stay up all night talking about wrestling.

Do you remember like those conversations and what you wanted to pick Eddie Guerrero's brain on and the wisdom that he passed down to you? Yeah. You know, when you're talking to, to Eddie Guerrero, when he's sitting in your, you know, your apartment, you know what I mean? He's got like a super early flight and he doesn't got a rental car and you know you offer i me and ace lived together in chicago at the time and i just offered i was like just you know come come over whatever and he was like i'll take a cab and i was like don't worry about taking a cab like you know i'll uh i'll take you to the airport no get some sleep and it was one of those things where it's like,

you can either try to put your head on the pillow and get a nap, maybe get like two hours, or you just wind up staying up. And I know a lot of wrestlers wind up staying up. I currently do it. You know, I fly home so early from most cities when I'm doing AEW stuff that like, I get done with the show and I'm so buzzing that I can't I can't

possibly sleep and then I look at the you know you look at your watch and you're like flight's leaving in like five hours anyway I might as well just stay up all right I just had the fortunate experience of having Eddie Guerrero in my apartment I remember him being completely freaked out at my my bookcase because it's just all books about serial killers. And I just remember him like looking over and he was like, kind of a weird guy, you know, you know, but I don't remember specifically like picking his brain. It was literally just more relaxed, like,

like friend kind of conversations, you know, like he was extremely grateful for um you know the ride to the airport and i mean it wasn't like in the middle of like a really bad snowstorm too so like i'm not even sure if you would have been able to get a cab to go all the way out to o'hare uh it's just a super cool experience and you know i i didn't do it because he was eddie guerrero it could have been it could have been any one of the boys it was just like you don't have a ride you're flying out of o'hare while we live x amount of time from there we'll just take you um but you know super

cool and he didn't have to write about us in his book you know but uh he i i think he did just because he was a good dude you You know, it's probably something that really touched him, you know, because why would these strangers help me? And, you know, that, that's the good part about the business, you know, that, that, that's, that's one of the, that's one of the reasons I'm, I'm back is to try to, you know, continue to, to pay stuff like that forward, you know, like Eddie Guerrero was always super good to me you know so i'm just trying to be super good to to the kids these days yeah i recently went to the wwe warehouse and seeing eddie's boots those gold boots with the flames on them that was like it put chills in my arms just knowing like holy shit those are eddie guerrero

he wore those at wrestlemania like are you kidding me so having him in your living room talking about your bookcase like i can't even imagine my brain would explode um i saw a tweet from you the other day this is kind of off topic but i just thought it was a funny tweet it made me laugh where someone asked what was your favorite moment backstage that you've had so far and you said it was larry interrupting a pre-tape yeah can you tell that story i don don't think I can because I honestly don't know. Oh, is it a future pre-tape? Yeah, I really don't know. I was just, I was so embarrassed.

But then there's also talk of, this is really peeling back the curtain. So I kind of hate it. But there's talk of maybe using it because it could could kind of work all i know is like i had i had like a myself and uh and and april had like a a crisis you know larry's not the most cordial uh you know and he has a few people that can watch them and my little sister was out of town so she couldn't and april was last minute booked to go fly do the the the wow announcement with genie bus so i was kind of left holding the bag and i was like well i guess i'll just deal with this you know and then uh i knew tony had stayed in champaign that week. So I buzzed him and I was like, Hey man, I got Larry and I have to, you know, nobody can watch him. Um, if I can get to Champaign, can I jump on the jet with you to go

to Philly? And he was like, yeah, because that eliminates one leg of travel with Larry. Who's an awful, awful person to travel with. Like he's gotten me thrown off a flight before. So it's a little much, right? So I was just like, as long as I can get there and get the TV, I'm good. And then I'll figure out a way to get home. I was probably going to rent a car drive just because it's easier to deal with Larry that way. And then, you know, this is the kind of boss Tony is. Tony was just like, why don't you just take the jet back to, you know, like completely hooked it up. I didn't ask. But that's that's the kind of duty is he explained that he's just like, you know, we're a sports team. I'm taking care of my quarterback, you know, like and I super appreciate that from him. But, yeah, I was in the middle of the day, so I was trying to take Larry outside, and I wound up, me and Larry wound up sprinting through somebody's pre-tape.

I felt bad about it. I felt really embarrassed, but Larry had to go to the bathroom, you know? That's hysterical. I love the love that you have for Larry. It's my favorite thing, maybe about CM Punk in general, is the love that you have for Larry. So another thing you mentioned there, AJ Mendez signs with wow women of wrestling to become an executive producer and color commentator. She's going to be on screen. This I'm sure is something that you guys have talked about forever. And there's been a lot of chatter online about, Hey, the timing of this is right after CM Punk returns to wrestling. Was there a rekindling of that wrestling love or fire with you guys together? I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I, I think that's just a happy coincidence. I think it was more, you know, um, so I'll go ahead and, you know, I had somebody reach out to me saying, Hey,

Jeannie bus wants to talk to April. And I was like, what? And, you know, April doesn't know anything about sports, like nothing, you know? So I took the idea to her and I was just like, you have to at least take this meeting. Jeannie bus is the most powerful woman in sports. You know, I think in my mind, I was just doing, you know, cartwheels thinking of my wife talking to Jeannie Buss. And I thought that was super cool. And, you know, they had a great conversation and Jeannie was just, you know, kind of kickstarting wow. And it really just kind of fit into the stuff that april's doing writing um producing so it really was just an idea presented to her that i think opened her up to oh shit yeah this is this is actually

perfect like i can help like the next generation of female wrestlers with the creative side of stuff and you know i don't i don't have to get concussed like it's it's excellent so it really fit what she's doing in her wheelhouse and i'm super stoked she's doing it yeah that's awesome i'm excited to see her back in the wrestling world like as fans it's awesome as well um something that you mentioned in the all-out media scrum that i wanted to touch on is that you felt that terry funk doesn't get the credit that he deserves as a wrestler. And as someone that is obviously very young, didn't get to experience much of Terry Funk as not the hardcore legend, Terry Funk. I want to kind of give him his flowers,

let you give him his flowers. What drew you to Terry Funk in the first place? What do you love about Terry Funk as a wrestler? Well, I think my first experience with Terry Funk was, you know, knowing that he was like a WCW NWA guy, but he was in Roadhouse and he was an over the top. And he really has kind of had these multiple career resurgences. You know, I mean, the dude retired, I think for the first time, I think maybe I was two years old, you know what I mean? So he had already had this amazing career before, you know, he wanted some health

insurance. So he got a SAG card and he was doing movies and stuff like that. And then every once in a while, somebody would come to him with an idea and a bag of money. And he would be like, yeah, I'll do that. Sounds kind of familiar, right? So I just think a lot of people, and I'm not sure if there's a ton of footage of Terry Funk as, you know, world heavyweight champion, you know, like Dory was a champ for so long. Terry was the champ, like early seventies NWA. And, you know, they were the first, maybe still only brothers who held the world championship, you know, and just all those guys like the, the Harley races and all those guys, you, you think NWA and you think of Ric Flair and, you know, to me, who's, you know, kind of a, a would be want to be wrestling historian. I think of all those guys that, you know, came before that, like Dory Funk and Terry Funk, all those dudes. And I just think to be the NWA champion,

like you had to be so many things. And one of them was like a legit badass. You had to be on the road like 24 seven as well. A lot of the guys, you know, after being champ for so many years, you said, I don't want to do this no more. It's too grueling. You know, I think Flair was the only guy who wanted to do that constantly 24 seven everybody else. It just, it just schedule is just too, too rough, too rough on families and stuff like that. But Terry was a dude who I think was such an excellent wrestler.

And then just based on his age and, and, and injuries and, you know, he changed his style and then you get like the hardcore legend, Terry Funk there's a reason why a lot of those dudes idolize Terry you know and it's barbed wire matches and and and all that stuff like guy like Mick Foley loved Terry Funk and you know so he's like kind of the bridge in between like all these different generations of wrestlers myself included you know I remember wrestling him in uh the murphy rec center in philadelphia and i was just like terrified like he was made of porcelain right and that's that was my approach was like yes sir no sir you know and i hit him with a chair in the match and i didn't want to but he told me to do it and he literally just turned to stop and turned around and he was like is that all you got you pussy and then punched me like right

in the face and i was just you know you're excited about that you're like it's fucking terry funk just punched me in the face you know like he he has punched patrick swayze in the face and now he's punching me in the face i love terry funk, you know, hopefully he's, he's, he's doing well. You know, I know there was like a scare, a scare a couple months back, but apparently it was all a false alarm. He's still Terry Funk. Best wishes to Terry. Always going to kick out at two. That's the man that he is. I love him. What is your philosophy on titles in AEW?

Because I saw someone go back and forth with you recently and you were like, maybe a TBS title. I'd be down with them adding that. And they have added it. But I think someone was talking about trios titles and that, and you were like, ah, nothing more. Are you someone that likes the simplicity of titles in wrestling? Yeah, a hundred percent. I think if everybody has a title and if everybody's a champion, then nobody's a champion. You know,

I think you gotta be really careful with that. And I think TBS titles even pushing a champion you know I I think you got to be really careful um with that and I I think TBS titles even pushing it you know there's already a women's title um do we have the the depth in the women's division do we have the depth in the men's division to have you know a secondary title I think been doing it pretty good so far i think miro brought um a lot of credibility to that belt and like stabilized it and obviously kenny omega is the the aw champion um it's kind of a touchy subject i know in 2021 everybody wants to you know really extol the virtues of women's wrestling. And this, this, this isn't a knock. Um, I'm, I'm married a women's wrestler. You know, I just wonder if we have the personnel to support a secondary or a title that's on even footing with, you know, the women's title, you know, um, I just, I don't know, in trios,

it's the same thing. It's just like, yeah, there's a lot of stables that have three people and yeah, you could have me tag with Sting and Darby, but you know, again, if everybody's a champion, nobody's a champion, you know, there, there needs to be, in my opinion, less, less titles, but we'll see, we'll see how it goes. You know, I'm sure all, in my opinion, less titles. But we'll see how it goes. You know, I'm sure all the women will prove me wrong, and I'm okay with that. I definitely lean on your side as far as, like, I'm not super down for the trios titles either. I definitely agree that tag seems fine. You know, that doesn't seem like we need a tag in trios.

I think maybe instead of another women's title, maybe women's tag belts but then again you know i i you know i don't know uh women's tag belts before trio belts i'll say that heels just wrapped up season one i loved heel season one shout out michael waldron friend of the basement it's no secret ricky rabies was sort of based on tracyothers. Is there another real life wrestler that you think is prime for like a fictionalized version on heels? I really think you get a lot of looks of other real life wrestlers through the lens of heels.

I mean, Wild Bill, you know, you name it. Larry's a big fan of Wild Bill. um obviously i think there's a lot of parallels uh rick flair and wild bill yeah uh but there's so many wrestlers that have just i think totally car crashed their own fucking lives that it's you know a lot of the times it'll just wind up being a coincidence. But yeah, I think if we do a season two, I definitely think I'll probably be brought on board and have a little bit more input. So you'll probably see a lot more Easter eggs and stuff that's kind of drawn out from real life and history and put into the show just to add a little bit more credibility to it. Amazing. I love that. I was such a big fan of heels.

If you are watching this interview and you haven't watched heels, go on Hulu, get like the free subscription of stars or whatever, and watch heels. It's eight episodes. It's a really good season. It's awesome. You'll get through the first season like that. You'll binge it. Speaking of things you've binged it's October. I want to talk some horror movies before we get out of here because you said midnight mass was one of your favorite shows since breaking bad i'm on like episode five right now so i don't want to get the ending spoiled for me or anything but i am not gonna i'm not gonna spoil anything for anybody um i'm a huge flanagan fan

you know i think i went to go see Dr. Sleep in the theater I think three times and a lot of that was just because it was so visually stunning to me like the colors the way it was shot but also how Mike Flanagan juggled making a sequel to not only shining the movie but to the book like it still boggles my mind how he did this so masterfully where if you read the book and hated the movie, you still love Dr. Sleep. If you never read the book and watched the shining, the movie and are a Kubrick friend, it was still an ode to that and followed that up. I don't understand. He must've sold a soul to the devil because then he comes out with, you know know the blind manor

yeah obviously haunting of hill house is a masterpiece and it's really just i hate the word elevated horror you know because really it's just i'm 42 and i love horror of all kinds just calling it elevated just means i'm 42 and i like maybe some more sophisticated stuff um whereas 12 year old ph Phil would just be like, slasher movies, let's go. I think the subject matter of Black Mass, I think a lot of people might be touchy about it. But if you grew up in a Catholic household like I did,

it was like, I was just freaking out. I was just freaking out. Like I've known freaking out. I was just freaking out. Like I've known, I've known that Beth Keene character like my entire life. Right. Like I know these people and the just, they nailed every single aspect of the Catholic church. I'm obviously very, I'm an atheist. And so like, you know, church, church bad, you know, but just the, the way he, Oh God. It's just, it was my favorite show.

It might be my favorite show of all time. Like that's seriously, how much I loved it. Just the acting and the way, you know, you're watching the show and you're like, okay, another monologue, but it makes sense because it's religion long monologue too like the church is impressive yeah every sunday somebody's standing in a pulpit or an altar and they're just monologuing the entire time and the way he the way he does it reminds me a lot of really really good pro pro wrestling, right? You go out and you tell the people the truth until you stop telling them the truth. But you've always told the truth so much that they can't figure out when you started working and what's true and what's not.

So they still believe you and it's still the truth. And the show is just hypnotizing to me. Like, I loved it. And he uses the same actors over and over and over again and they are so talented that you can't tell you get a squint and go okay i remember her from black manor now but just the way they are all just firing out all cylinders like super super impressed with with everybody that had anything to do with that show. Loved it so much. Yeah. The guy who has his Muslim son going to take the Catholic church

and he's like, so, you know, feeling on eggshells about it. He's one of the best actors in the whole franchise in the Bly Manor, Hill House, whatever. He was so good in Bly Manor. So good in this. I would recommend that to everyone as well. When you're done watching heels, go watch Midnight Mass. And if I were to to ask you we're in october your three essential horror movies like everyone should watch these every october which three would you give me i just watched scream for the first time ever and i was pretty blown away by that i thought it was great screams a great movie um screams like a time capsule it couldn't have been made any earlier it couldn't have been made any later like it's a little tongue-in-cheek but just enough yeah i think

i think scream 3 might be a little underrated by people you know um nothing captures obviously the original and so like the vote vote number one horror movie of all times halloween obviously john carpenter deborah hill geniuses they gave us that and it gave birth to every single slasher movie after that including scream um i got just because it's on sci-fi network right now i got friday the 13th i think part six is on right now see there's six or or seven. I think it's seven. Yeah, Supernatural. So that's seven. Yeah. But top three, I mean, I'd have to really sit and think about it. Is Texas Chainsaw up there for you?

I think so. Yeah, for sure. But see, I always like to try to get a little bit of variety instead of just being like, here's three slasher films. And Texas Chainsaw is brilliant for all the reasons that um are opposite of why halloween is brilliant you know halloween's theater of the mind like there's no blood it's just psychological and then texas chainsaw masker just comes and hits you over the head with a giant mallet and you're just like what the um i always i always would tell people rosemary's baby but polanski's a piece of and like i literally i'm i'm that

empathetic dude who i can't watch rosemary's baby anymore you know i'm with you i'm like that dude that dude sleeps with little girls and it's weird and i hate that welcome um i think psycho is a good one too but it can be a little bit long and drawn out before you get to the meaty stuff. Uh, I'm a big universal horror monster too, but sometimes it's a little tedious. Like I get it like black and white films and, um, but it's, it's good to, to know your roots and see where like everything else has, has come from. I'm a, I'm just, I, John Carpenter again, I think the thing, you know, people can call it sci-fi. I talk about the thing.

It's the same thing though. It's horror. It's just, it's claustrophobic, you know, bunch of guys in Antarctica, no contact to the outside world dealing with an alien and they don't know who's infected it just it's fucking it's fucking brilliant um an alien i think is another another good one you know and you talk about badass female types i think uh you know ripley sigourney weaver in that film is like one of the one of the first you know i don't even know if you call her a final girl i just think she like transcends all of that you know like final girl somebody who's being chased you know by the by the killer and and kind of survives like i think ripley was just like

you know way more badass than that yeah a little bit all right punk thank you so much for the time i really appreciate it. As always, I'm excited for the match against Seidel on Friday. And I'm excited to see your AEW career continue. Yeah, me too. Knock on wood. It continues.