My Mom's Basement - EPISODE 386 - SECRET WARS (1984) WITH JOSE YOUNGS

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

The FIRST EVER Comic Book Club Edition of My Mom's Basement featuring Jose Youngs, discussing Marvel's original Secret Wars event from 1984-85! We recap the entire twelve-issue run as well as some of the history behind it with the help of our resident comic book expert! Let us know which comic series you'd like to see us do next! **************************************** Support our Sponsors! Gametime Download the Gametime app today and use code MMB to easily score great deals with the new Gametime Picks! Turtle Beach Level up your game and get 10% off @TurtleBeach with code BASEMENT at https://turtlebeach.com/BASEMENT! #turtlebeachpod ****************************************   My Mom's Basement is a weekly podcast hosted by Robbie Fox, started in March 2019, to discuss movies, music, comic books, wrestling, mixed martial arts, and more with his friends and idols alike!   Subscribe on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/MyMomsBasementWithRobbieFox Subscribe on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-moms-basement/id1457255205 Follow Robbie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatrobbiefox Follow Robbie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RobbieBarstool My Mom's Basement Merchandise: https://store.barstoolsports.com/collections/my-moms-basementYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey My Mom's Basement listeners, you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello and welcome to My Mom's Basement, presented by Barstool Sports and the very first Comic Book Club edition of My Mom's Basement i really should have said not hello and welcome to my mom's basement but hello and welcome to battle world because that's where we're going with secret wars uh the original secret wars we prepared everyone for this i'm hoping nobody like red hickman secret wars and they're coming to this one and i am and it's that would be a jarring. Yeah, this is a Jim shooters. Secret Wars, correct? Mike, Mike Heck did the pencils on it or Mike Sec. I'm like, he's an MMA guy.

It's been an MMA weekend. So that's why I'm confused. Bob Layton as well. John Beatty was the main anchor. Jack Abel, Mike Esposito. Wanted to shout out all of the creators. This was the first time I ever read Secret Wars. It was the first time Clem ever read Secret Wars as we prepare for the MCU to go down this journey.

Jose, I assume you have a much more storied history with Secret Wars. So let's start there. Yeah. storied history with secret wars so let's start there yeah so i you guys when you guys posted your copies of it i have the one i'm holding it up for the only the audio people but my copy is from like 1999 1990 maybe even earlier might have been 96 no it has to be before 99 because this is my original copy that i bought in falmouth ma Maine at I can't even remember the comic book store. That's how long ago it was. This I was telling Robbie when I saw him in Vegas for No Show UFC.

This might be one of my five first graphic novels ever I've ever got. And I know my uncle got it for me. So I read this when I was seven, eight years old in elementary school. So it's been a long time, and I've periodically reread it, and this is probably one of my most borrowed comic books that I have. Everyone's always, yeah. I mean, it makes sense, too, being that all of the heroes are in it and reading a little bit about why this got made and basically to sell toys.

It makes sense why all the heroes are in it and reading a little bit about why this got made and basically to sell toys it makes sense why all the heroes are in it but it's such an appealing cover and storyline when you hear all the heroes and villains going to battle world to deck it out but what was surprising to me as a first-time reader was how nuanced and layered some of the inner conflicts are i don't know if you felt the same way clem where i was reading it and I was like, I know that this was made to sell toys, but I almost can't imagine a seven-year-old reading this and comprehending everything that like

they're talking about here. Oh no, yeah. It's a grown-up comic book because AJ has been looking at it and we're playing, we're in Fortnite. Marvel thing's going to be here for another like month and a half and he is loving it. And he's like dad what's this and then he starts reading he's like whoa you know he just put like half the time it's like i'm expecting the whole thing to be like the

third act of end game just like crazy heroes villains every you know team up mashup you would never expect every other panel it's someone complaining that they missed their wife yeah yeah everyone's gone soft that's this is the post we've become heroes we've become celebrities now we just miss our girls this is a band on its second third album right you know that's how it feels with all these people and then the inner conflict um between obviously you have these heroes getting to know each other which i didn't realize this was the first like huge, large scale collab. And the fact that you said, Bob,

it was all about toys. So hurry capitalism for once again, giving us something we would have never gotten the name secret wars. Like you said, that just pops, you know, the ensemble cast is awesome. But the name is,

is incredible as well. And then I even loved the way that they introduced it all with, you know, each comic, which I appreciated. If you had like the 12 comic books of the Secret Wars, you wouldn't know. That's the good thing about these, like the saga issues, is that they go to the X-Men where the X-Men go. They go to the Spider-Man issue where Spider-Man goes. And I just kind of loved how you felt like you were kind of getting a little glimpse into what was going on in those universes before they all come together.

So it was very cool. And again, it's incredible. And I can't wait to see the way the MCU does it. The Magnet Man is such a fucking interesting character that just that's it's incredible and and uh you know the the avengers are wary of him the x-men you know vouch for him and even like as you're reading you're like i don't know what he's gonna do right now i thought in the last episode last issue i'm like now magneto's gonna make his move is this post or pre-trial of magneto because i know it's around that time right this is i'm

glad you like this is really that's part of the reason they are vouching for him right they're like he just fucking turned himself in and we put him on trial yeah correct um and this was like marvel at this point in time the eight like the aven Avengers were a big old nothing burger in the 80s. I think I talked a little bit about it when they did the X-Men 97 show. The Avengers were just kind of bleh. Iron Man was whack. Captain America was whack. Wasp was whack.

But the big names were Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four to an extent, and then Spider-Man. Those were the big ones, but these were the ones that could sell toys. So a lot of people, if you read Fantastic Four or you read Spider-Man or you read Daredevil or anyone else, you didn't really read others. It was very territorial, like professional wrestling is. If you're an AEW fan fan you don't watch wwe and vice versa like so they had to figure out a way to explain why things were happening to people

while also trying not to alienate people that had already been established readers of certain characters which i think they did a very good job of i i loved the first time team ups it actually like reminded me of, you know, some of the movies that we've seen in the MCU where I was like, Oh shit, movies have already been inspired by secret wars, movies like infinity war when the guardians and you know, the Avengers meet for the first time and they kind of have these interesting

conflicts where it's, they don't know who to trust. And some people know more about the actual information at hand than others but it's who do you want to let that who do you want to let know and stuff like that um bob i'm happy you said that because and again not comparing us to fucking superheroes here but it was a very similar dynamic i remember when we opened hq at barstool and we all knew each other through the internet and it's like you know we all kind of had the same like you know goal we were funny people and you're like kind of original but like you got to see people kind of like pair off and like oh and these are two guys that would have never met it's like oh rigs and trick are hanging out now right and it's like you know people you wouldn't have

usually seen in the same room are now all under one you know building and then you have the pmt guys and you have the little sex but then you you have these SECTS, not SES. I mean, maybe that too. I don't know. I wasn't really in the office that much yet. But it was very cool to see how people would pair off and you're like, oh, that's kind of cool. And just the kind of like different dynamics they would have.

So that's something I didn't see coming as well. And Jose, I don't want to take it another direction here, but like do you know what it was back then was it would it be like maybe the fantastic four would have like a spider-man this was that was it i'm really glad you brought it up this is really this is the real first big crossover thing we've had in marvel and it was solely obviously like robbie said to sell toys for for mattel i think it was originally called Cosmic Guardians, which is a pretty lame name. And then from what I know.

Oh, my God, that's horrible. I think it was. It might have been Cosmic Champions or Cosmic something. But I know Marvel, they said, hey, they went up to Jim Shooter, who we can talk about Jim Shooter later. He's not my favorite. He's not a lot of people. He's not a lot of people. He is not a lot of people's favorite. But he did really good in this.

And I think someone in Marvel, like, upper, like, not obviously not the writing staff, but, like, maybe legal or, like, research and development. They were like, hey, we've tested. And the phrase is, like, war and secret. Like, kids really like that. He goes, all right right secret wars it is and then he just rolled with that um but this is the because this is pre-internet pre-movies this is very much like kids would take toys and say like oh and then smash them together and be like oh spider-man is gonna fight wolverine and then your friend would be like no wolverine would

kill spider-man and then your other friend was like oh no because he has nightcrawler and he'll help so this is very much like settling arguments that you would have on the blacktop and not even and like if you read it and we'll get into it there's really not like when spider-man fights or has like some sort of conflict with the x-men or iron man has some sort of conflict with someone else and hulk and vice versa there's really no ending. It's just to showcase how powerful these individuals are. But this this entire book basically originates from arguments that kids would have between who would win between their favorite heroes. And this is really the first time we've ever gotten that. There's a lot of that, especially in the beginning of the book, too, where it's they're trying to like establish levels for everyone.

It felt like where they they send, you know, they send Galactus up to confront the Beyonder and he fucking swats him down like a fly. And it's like showing everyone, OK, you know how powerful Galactus is already. Now take it take into account the Beyond beyonders power or something like where he'll suck the life out of ultron and stuff like the first two that got knocked out in the book in my notes i had ultron and galactus was like oh my god they really let everyone know up front this is how we're doing secret wars and i appreciated that too i thought that was sweet and they i think what the what jim shooter and mike Zeck and Bob Layton did that. I think it's just so fantastic is they,

they showed there's not a lot of jump cuts. There's not, there's a lot of dialogue of filling the gaps. Like, Oh, what does superheroes do when they're not fighting crime? Like that's what this kind of show. Yeah.

It's very, it's straight up like people hanging around talking. You've got the wasp and Magno scenes where they're getting all cozy because the storm is outside and they can't leave like we in the business like to call this this era of magneto his fuck boy era because he really was because he really was he knew he was a handsome man and he knew what he knew what he was doing but what i love about this arc is they they had like big moments that would showcase people how people how powerful people are like the beyonder and it's stuff that sticks with you in your head for the rest of like you'll never read a hulk story again the same way after you saw i'm holding up a mountain after you saw sick after you saw um

magneto taking out all the x-men or all of the heroes by himself by just blowing up a building or galactus sucking out ultron's powers or spider-man beating up the x-men which had never happened before and really just kind of established spider-man being the man or this is also this is if you wanted to pinpoint a moment in time that really started or was the beginning of the iron wars arc this was kind of it because before this iron man had cool armor but it didn't really go into how powerful it could be so that scene when when iron man blows through the mountain and he's like oh my god i didn't know my power my suit could do this like we didn't either like this is exactly how it is or human torch using his nova flame or she hulk beating up the wrecking crew or or uh just like

beyond her just melting doom that one time so they use these big like three four panels to showcase power while not making everyone else seem weak and it sticks with you forever and i think it's such perfect right it's a perfect amalgamation of art and writing all right want to take a quick time out from the glorious comic book club to talk to you about our friends at game time game time long time time friend of Barstool Sports from the top on down. Everyone loves Game Time, including the basement boys. Help keep the lights on, baby. Help keep the lights on in the basement. And sometimes you got to leave the basement, go out and enjoy a live event. And you know, we love them all here in the basement. We kind of touch everything. We got concerts, football games, comedy shows, and we always use Game Time,

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So download the game time app today and use code MMB to easily score great deals with new game time picks. What time is it and use code mmv to easily score great deals with new game time picks what time is it game time back to the club i'm also gonna say though you know obviously you'll be jumping around here kind of did two other things for me and these are my x-men and these are clearly older times these are before even was reading Colossus is just, Oh my God, dude. I had in my notes, literally I'm going down here.

My note. I it's like in the third act, we're, we're in, in the home stretch. I don't care about the Colossus Zazie story. I don't even know how you say her name. But the fact that her and Johnny storm fell for her.

And we will get into something that was retconned, which I actually really like. I was kind of teasing Robbie about it. Did they retcon some of this stuff? Yes, they did. They retconned pretty much the entire Secret Wars, and I actually like it. I actually like it i actually like it my and then my other beef was rogue is just trash in this entire fucking saga which you know it's a different rogue than we know now and she's a villain now she's becoming a good person and you see i appreciated the part where she

doesn't know she's really gonna like help the villains out at some point um and then i guess we didn't even really touch on the villains the villains kind of just getting to know each other and they kind of like group up and stay grouped up where the other heroes are kind of in conflict i love how that works but the villains like no one truly trusts each other because you know that that guy is as sick and twisted as you are in in hindsight when they first arrive on battle world the the the villains are pretty op the villains the villains would win that battle now looking ahead to like current times it is very much the opposite like the event like if you have like the maker with mr fantastic current iron man current thor especially current spider-man who is just on like current rogue like you said storm But at the time when I was reading this,

I'm like, well, for the eighties, this is a pretty overmatched heroes crew right here. Yes. Storm herself. We don't really get to see her do much. She,

I mean, she tells off professor X in that one scene, which is pretty sweet. But the whole time that they're like, oh, where we got to stay inside. Cause there's this crazy storm out on a battle world. I'm like,

oh, I know who's going to be able to save the day here no it's just like no she can't control the weather there a lot of it so one of the villains i couldn't believe how big of a factor molecule man and oh i would i think one of the original times i was on your show we were we i brought up claw i think i can't remember what the conversation would might have been like people that are in the in the movies that are just not remotely close to what they are in the comic book yeah claw is always my first example um and molecule man is such an interesting character he's so powerful like too powerful at times that i was gonna say is he so powerful you can't do him in a movie it's it will be like because the thing about molecule that's so interesting is he's

is he's so incredibly overpowered but he's such a weakling like mentally so that kind of balances it out like you saw at the beginning of this before Dr. Doom unlocked his mind, but he plays a big role in secret wars too, where you kind of get the origin story of him and kind of the origin story of the under. And then he pops in now and then, and he's in a pretty fantastic arc of dark Avengers when Norman Osborn was leading the Avengers. And it's,

it's how we get the explanation for Sentry's power. That Sentry is not just a Superman type thing. Because Molecule Man doesn't control molecules. It's like subatomic particles. Because controlling molecules would just be insane. That's just not possible. It's obviously not possible uh it's obviously not possible but i he's it's a and it's it explains that the sentry's powers is very much on a subatomic

level too and they kind of show the parallels of the of their origin stories are very similar in one of both so one of them is a scientist one of them is like a drug addict but it's very similar and he he's fun character and i think he was perfect for this role but i don't know how but like you said what i don't know if they could put that in a movie that's i have no idea and claw like claw in the movies is obviously andy circus and he's in the the black panther movies he plays him in a real cool kind of like arms dealer way in this he looks like the fucking tick or something he looks so goofy and then by the end it's like oh he's in the final scenes with doctors i mean he has like

the beyonder's power inside of him first a moment like i could not believe that he was like one of the final villains i also didn't know that and this is going to be something that i'm sure comic fans are going to be like you're such an idiot for not knowing that. I didn't know that Doom and Kang had such a pre-established rivalry. Okay. This is. They hate each other in this. Sort. Yes.

In this. But their history together is so convoluted that it's been retconned so much. Like, I don't know. Did they retcon this? Because in this, they're obviously obviously like they don't trust each other kang shoots him down thinks he killed him and then doom goes in this era 1984 whatever it is a highly implied that doom and uh kang are related but then it's is he actually related to mr fantastic or is he actually related to nathan richards but is it nathan richards his son or is it nathan richards his father or is it getting back into the

or is it all of them because like it's heavy it is at this point in time it's heavily alluded that doom and because i even think doom says it he's like oh my future self or my future like relative or whatever but this was dropped like this was sort of dropped at the time and then it's also implied that reed richard's father is related but then it's also implied that it's both of them like because it's time travel like did kang come from the future to the past and then is he nathan richard's father who then also became the father of kang is he his own grandfather it's very complicated it could be both it could be neither we don't know i'm curious to see if they do doomsday and secret wars like are they going to get rid of kang prior to secret wars they probably will with you know what we know about the Jonathan Major stuff unless they

go for the full recast but Kang is it like a big part of this story so I was like hmm you could still like keep them looped in I think in the MCU let me say this too because people I think are going to be screaming at their iPhone or whatever the list is on or YouTube we know that probably the

Secret Wars I've heard Secret Wars 2, they might be taking a lot from that. We will read that at some point. We have plenty of time to read that. Jose, if he's gracious enough, will come on and fix our brains as that fucks stuff up. But I think there are different ways

that it could go based on whatever happens this year. There are every secret. I think there's four Secret Wars titles. There's Secret Wars 1, 2. There's the Hickman one. And think there's four secret wars titles. There's secret wars one, two, there's the Hickman one. And then there's the one from like the early two thousands with, uh,

like Spider-Man, Luke Cage, daredevil, it's all like the, the street level heroes. They invade Latvera and get their mind wet. I've talked about it on the show and all four secret wars are 10 out of tens.

Wow. That's real rare. They better know this movie for the comic fans. The Secret Wars Hickman run is how they introduce Miles Morales to the 616 world in the comics. That's how they combine. Rather than combining planets to make Battleworld, they combined universes to make Battleworld. And then they just kept that's how they like that's that was the beginning of the end of the original ultimate universe and by the way speaking of the combining planets denver had to be the little sass meme of

like why me why am i here i couldn't believe they're like oh and like let's go back to denver for a moment it had to be kind of nice you know you get a little slice of home you when you go back there but geez poor denver that's a great i guess it brought uh julia carpenter into the story right she was a second spider woman yeah the second spider woman and there is a i don't remember the title i think came out in the mid 2000s 2005 2006 there's like a mini series of heroes where it's like more downtime because this was this is such a popular arc that they've had a lot of not not retcons but additions to like side stories to this there's like an arc where like spider-man is like oh woe is me as spider-man does and like just goes to denver while he's on

battle world and like mingles with civilians on battle world and they're like like obviously the humans are freaked out and Spider-Man just has to be a hero so it's it's a fun I want to read that it's fine if I find it I'll tweet it out because I'm sure people will will want to find it I have to admit battle world is much different than I thought it was going to be again i knew nothing about secret wars going into this and it sounds like i think secret wars 2 where you're different you're combining you said secret wars 2 is where that the hickman run that's the one okay the secret secret wars 2 is very much a continuation of this story okay okay i do feel

like we will probably get something like that just because we haven't had the x-men i don't know how the fantastic four are going to play into this and if we really are going to combine use some of this to combine the mcu i mean i guess we'll see but battle world in general i thought it was going to be like a planet that was made for battling instead of just kind of like lumped together by the beyonder so yeah it was made to like if you notice it's it's it's just earth and rocks it's like the dragon ball z planets they fight like there's no and then like two big bases and there's base the size of chicago or whatever and then they have base which doom base sounds awesome exactly and then they have a bunch of vehicles and it is exactly what you think it is. It's to sell toys.

Yeah. So like who, who, what kid wouldn't want to bases and a bunch of vehicles and a bunch of action figures to throw around. This is, it is literally what it looks like. It's like a rare case of that creating good content though.

Usually when like they make products just to sell toys, it's fucking batman and robin and that's what they did for young justice and young justice slaps good point good point i didn't even know young justice was just a toy venture it absolutely was makes sense though um i want to go through some of my notes because i was just taking notes the entire time i was reading secret wars and putting my little commentary in there. One thing I appreciated about the MCU after reading this, one of the first things Spider-Man says before Secret Wars even starts,

when we're reading the little prelude about how he got to Central Park and got transported, he references George Lucas in his second panel. I was like, oh my God, the Tom Holland Spider-Man throws it back and makes his Empire Strikes Back references and stuff. All of the splash pages. Oh, my God.

Are so awesome. It must have been so fun to be the artist, too, and be like, yeah, you get to draw all of the heroes on this one. You get to draw all of the villains on the next one. The big lineup pages, even in the beginning, where it's like every hero introduces themselves. I loved what was the name of the dragon? Lockheed.heed yeah i liked the dragon showing up in the beginning and then you don't see him until the end like that was great um uh one of my favorite lines the line that maybe made me laugh the hardest in the entire book was right up front when ultron doesn't know what's going on he just goes i am ultron I do not understand the events transpiring.

That's pretty much me at all times. I don't know what's going on. I'll be honest. That was me in the tunnel of chaos with Dana White. I said, I am Robbie Fox. I do not understand the events transpiring. Doom base again, killer name. Doom could take control of Ultron and secret wars as well i

wrote down in terms of the mcu they're about to bring ultron back this is mcu i think that would be cool and this is i think ultron 11 this is the 11th in this book yeah i think this is ultron one this is well this is all like because ultron. Well, this is all... Ultron keeps... At this point in time, Ultron is an incredibly popular character. So he was like, oh, we need to bump up sales, throw in Ultron.

Like, it's very much how... Would he be, at this point, the Avengers' most famous villain? That's a good question. He'd probably be up there, right? He'd be way up there in terms of popularity he'd be way up there i think this is ultra 11 he had just been defeated like not too long ago so this was like he came back to life in like he was he was deactivated and then woke up on battle

world so they could do the same thing in the mcu what they did with ultron in the comics correct like ah but people love hiddleston. Exactly. It's like the nineties with carnage and venom. It's like, Oh, how do we increase sale? How do we increase silver surfer sales? Have them fight carnage. Like,

and about what we were saying in the beginning about this book, seeming so mature were comics of this era. Was this just how comics were written or was this considered like a more mature take on the hero this is i think it's very oh no this is right around when they started to get more mature because spider-man started to deal with the the the drug epidemic of new york daredevil was starting to pop off the x-men were dealing with like they would kind of tie in like the racism of america to the mutant hatred captain america obviously fighting nazis roadie because let's also we haven't mentioned this is not tony stark so it's like black iron man um so this is very

much when it start this is actually kind of not what spider-man was and daredevil and even the hulk was dealing with at the time was not any like this was not this is because this is a cosmic event this is not dealing with like yeah beating up a crack dealer so but yes this is around the time when the when stanley was like oh i want to do this at the comic books like well you're not here, guys. Sorry. Yeah, I was going to say Stanley, not at Marvel at this time. I think he is, but just isn't like in creative power. This is might have when he moved to California and started the West Coast West Branch, the West Coast Branch, similar to the West Coast Avengers. And Jim Shooter, I think this led to him being editor in chief or he wasn't already energy. And I'll throw that. I'll say this about Jim Shooter, I think this led to him being editor-in-chief,

or he wasn't already editor-in-chief. And I'll say this about Jim Shooter. He was very good at the time, but his thing was, this is how I want to do it, and I don't care if you're right and I'm wrong. I want it this way. That was his style of editing. He was also incredibly homophobic so

which is like who who's the the character from alpha flight that's gay it's gonna drive me crazy um i thought you said alpha i'm like damn they had an anti uh it's gonna drive me crazy i'll remember by the end of the episode but like that character was written to be gay but the creator had to hide the fact that he was gay and then the only gay the only gay incidences in like of like portrayal of homosexual homosexuality in the comic books was like bruce banner went to jail and got like assaulted by two gay prisoners so like jim shooter was very problematic and like chased a lot of people out of marvel right a ton of people were chased out of marvel because they just didn't want to deal with him so it's this weird thing

where he's very good for what he did right there and this this arc secret wars shaped the marvel universe for the next 20 years and he started it and i don't and he was very much like oh you're right in the hulk well this is what the hulk's doing in secret wars so you're gonna have to deal with it there was no collaboration so he was a pain in the ass to work with he was very good writer and then he just didn't evolve so eventually he was fired from marvel and i think he started valiance comics which is another good offshoot of comics but he was uh he was not everyone's cup of tea and like even so like john burn who himself is a is i think a comic book genius but again a very problematic dude for John Burns to be like I can't work with this guy

that should just tell you how difficult he was I love when Jose has a take whether he loves a guy or hates a guy it's always interesting and you're always fair you're like the guy's a genius we're kind of seeing it the other way a guy who is very pro-gay obviously Bo DeMeo

and we're seeing he was his own. We get a new story every day with Bo DeMeo. And I'm like, Bobby, if this was 10 years ago and the internet wasn't so sensitive, it would just be like, we just covered this story. But it's so crazy. I'm like, I don't even know. We don't want to touch it. That's a very good.

They're like two problematic peoples on different sides of the spectrum. Yes. That's very funny. That. That's very funny. That's very, very funny. I loved the whole thing with Galactus when he, he just gets stood on the mountain. He's like that fucking, he's like the Jesus statue in Rio.

And then he's just standing there on the mountain. Everyone's staring at him. And then when he moves at the end of that issue, I need that in the movie. When they make secret wars, I want the moment where reed richards looks up and he's like oh no he moved like that is a moment right this is very interesting to with the galactic galactic part specifically when mr fantastic is trying to

to reason with him and we saw ultron kind of gets swatted away because he bumped into him and then he ignored Doom. But what I love about again, again, Jim Shooter, just be a better person, because I love how you I love your storytelling in this. And you're reading between the lines of things. But like, just be better um this was around the time where they did the trial of reed richards which is uh mr fantastic mr fantastic galactic saves galactus saves galactus's life and he was put on trial because of all the people moving forward that could lose their lives because of galactus and he argued with that galactus is not an individual to be saved but a force of nature that like thanos says balances the world like you need that destructive force so the only person there you

go exactly and there's only one per and if you read that and then you see the only person that Galactus acknowledges is Mr. Fantastic, but they don't say, Oh, I remember when you, cause like, this is again, like when they're at the bases and they're talking,

they're like overly descriptive. They're like, Oh, that wind is coming over here. We better circle the base. Spider-Man, you go to the West. I'll do this because I did that.

Like everything is internal, externally narrated there's none of that you just have to be in the know and that's why i loved that aspect of that's what i love about jim shooter's storytelling is if you read trial of mr of reed richards you know why galactus acknowledged it and this is they touched on it briefly but i was like there's a lot more there i didn't realize i went into it and i figured they did but interesting i like that scene a lot when he goes up and meets with galactus and he's all you know respectful to him and he's like i'm honored to be chosen to even you know because he knows he knows how to he knows how to like get in and this is 84 i think so yes i'll

tell you what i swear to god reading that scene i was like this is reminding me so much of the emperor bringing luke skywalker up into the throne room it's the year after return of the jedi came out there's a chance that was a little inspired could be i was gonna make a different comp and i don't know if i want to make it now but i'm gonna say like it's kind of like when porto is in the office and just like quietly doing his thing and there's like three people it's like guys can talk to him robbie you're probably one of the few people too you know you gotta you gotta like lead with something he loves you know you gotta be like house miss peaches or yay baby yoda have you

seen him lately you know that's that's funny you mentioned that because since i've been on this show i get recognized for being on on in your mom's basement more than my mma concept and the first question is always how's port norm look i don't know couldn't tell you i don't think people in the office could tell you so i don't know no usually not he's a force of nature jose he's not even a person at this point so so he's the galactus of Barstool 100% I have to say this though I get the Galactus concept But I also cannot fully grasp The Galactus concept And I'm very interested to see how they bring that

Into the MCU Because that's a lot for people like us to take I'd say like Jose You can understand I think Robbie's the next level down We're going closer to the commoners. And then like my kids would be like, that guy's scary. That's all I know about him.

So what's so fascinating by Galactus, and again, this is all reading between the lines, especially in this is this is so beneath him. Like say his say this universe ends like it doesn't matter because Galactus is from the universe before time existed. He is the holdover so his universe ended and then eternity who you if you've seen the famous photo is is creating the universe in his palm and you kind of see it in gardens of the galaxy too when when who is it um um oh my god what's his name ego yeah no uh star lord like, what do you see? And his eyes are covered in stars. And he says, I see eternity.

That's obviously the eternity creative of the universe. Galactus is the sole survivor of the universe before this universe. So he died with that universe, was reborn in this universe, and will die with this universe and be reborn in the other so he doesn't care if this universe ends because he's like i'm gold i'm golden like i'll just get reborn as an as galactus once again so this is so beneath him which is again a very fascinating aspect of galactus and it's also fascinating that he immediately sees the beyonder and he's like oh he can like take away my hunger or whatever.

Let me go talk to him about it. Galactus obviously treats him like he does. I thought, Clem, you must have appreciated the one panel where the thing's like, I can't watch the Mets, so I guess I'll just be what so-and-so's doing. I almost tweeted out a picture and being like, been there, done that, Ben. I love Ben Grimm's personality and just the way he talks. was tweeted out a picture and being like been there done that ben i i love he has the like i love ben grim's uh like personality and like just the way he talks and i'm like that is kind of what a mets fan is there's a lot of grit in that fucking guy's soul from watching this stupid i love ben and he also has a shrek 2 arc in this one he just turns into a human he doesn't know why he turns

back and then he has to go back and forth. I like where they leave him at the end. I like how it kind of the story like ends with the thing in a way. So this is very much a woe is me thing. This whole like remember when I love the even when I was little, the scene outside of all the big battles, like the most famous scene in all the Secret Wars is the very beginning because the phrase i am from the beyond is an iconic that is up there with um with great power comes great responsibility that is one of the 10 most famous lines in marvel comic books but the scene that really stood out for me when i was a kid was when things like kind of like you, sulking around the base and then he stumbles upon was a Captain America and Mr. Fantastic talking. And they're like, oh, I just miss my wife. And then Thing is just like, ah,

they don't want to deal with a guy like me. And I'm like, damn, Thing, like, have some respect for yourself. But when he turns back into the thing, when he turns back into Ben Gurion from the thing, at this point in time mr fantastic in the comic books always assumes that he could do that at will like that should have been a power he should have been able to do sort of like human torch

like he can go back and forth or invisible girls are always invisible invisible but it's because it's a mental block like it's a woe-is-me block that's keeping him from doing that. So when he stays behind, he becomes not a space pirate, but a space explorer. Was it good, the continuation of his storyline? Because I like when they put She-Hulk in the Fantastic Four. I was like, yeah, that kind of works. That fits.

I wish they did more with it because it wasn't long enough. Eventually, he just went back to Earth and just took up being the thing again. I'm like, I wish they had made it like a three, four year arc because then one thing went back. Space pirate thing.

He's zipping around just exploring and just doing his thing. Then when he leaves Battleworld, Battleworld disintegrates because he's the last holdout from the reason it's that he's the only reason that it's holding together and battle world becomes at this point after secret wars becomes a planet where wishes come true so people like which at the end is basically what it is right or like they realize that they're like if you have the desire strong enough willpower and desire you can basically yes

make something happen which begs the question did i get oasis back together i think i willed it i think i had the desire strong enough i love that that's so funny and again he goes back because he misses his you know warm embrace of his boo like all these fucking guys so i couldn't believe married girlfriends it's all the fucking like the single dudes are probably just like i'm cool with you man i love battle world it's yeah. It's like a bachelor party or you're in college with all your single friends. And that was, I think, Cyclops I read when he's missing Gene,

a little tie-in to X-Men 97, he's missing Madeline Pryor, correct? Boom. I was about to say, hey, no, Gene, this is back when Cyclops was being that weird... Like, you don't know that if you read the book, but I was reading about it afterwards, the Wikipedia and stuff, and I was like, oh like oh shit that's a fun little tie-in if you just watched x-men 97 and read this with us he's missing madeline fryer back on earth hey man

you know gene's capable of some pretty cool shit i bet but someone named the goblin queen does stuff that a girl like gene gray don't even think about doing this respectable woman this is this is also right around the time where i tweeted out that thread after we did the podcast because people were asking me about stuff. It's that famous issue where Storm and Cyclops fight. They get into a physical fight over the leader of the X-Men and Storm wins. So Storm is technically leader of the X-Men for this arc. And the leader of the team here that conversation was interesting where everyone's deferring power and they're like probably shouldn't be me like mr fantastic even

is like ah my mom's on the wife at home you know someone else should probably step in and i think it winds up being cap right cap it has to be cats america but again like that goes the leader of the avengers at this point which is was weird for me to wrap my brain around wasp is i was texting about wasp is a very underrated and integral character to like arcs that have been like throughout time because she seems to be the one of the main constants in the avengers for as big of a revolving door as the avengers lineup has the wasp is very much like even when ant-man leaves or giant man leaves because he has his own issues wasp is always there like yeah so it's she's kind of like the linchpin of the avengers without the wasp like when people make their lineup of best avengers and they don't

include her i'm like it just doesn't work you're like casual exactly like the big the big three i fully i like she is the big three of cap iron man thor that it starts with them and then i and then outside of that you can form whoever you want but wasp and ant-man need to be in the avengers did you oh i guess i'll ask robbie since jose you've been doing reading these since before the movies i was reading these in the actors voices in the beginning especially yeah like you know but like magneto i feel like i was reading x-men 97 voice oh yes probably but i was definitely like thor is so like i again i haven't read comics in years and thor is just speaking like thor like a straight-up asshole let's be honest like he's talking by odin's beard and then cap is such the goody two-shoes boy scout and and and tony stark has his little like you know it's not even tony stark i didn't

realize till later on in it but it's like he's kind of a little more casual and fun so it was kind of funny i'm like oh shit like i've already been programmed to hear these guys in my head and definitely like chris evans when i read captain america at this point and like i said at the beginning when they showed like these scenes of like hulk holding the the the mountain and galactus doing the thing with ultron and spider-man beating up x the x-men's like these moments that showcase how powerful they are captain america's moment is then choosing him as leader has nothing to do with has nothing to do with physical confrontation. It's very much to do with caps leader. And it,

it is the reason there's this great art called justice league versus Avengers drawn by the late master, George Perez and captain America is voted by both the justice league and the Avengers to lead the final assault. And it is why, and it is why so he hangs back in the base and there's a moment when Captain America

goes, Superman, I want you to take this into battle. And he gives Superman the shield. And then Superman catches Thor's hammer. So there's that scene when Superman has Thor's hammer with Captain America's shield. And I'm like, this is just the best thing in the world. And listen,

there's been no bigger, you know, sometimes tongue in cheek critic of captain me on this podcast. Just recently to get under Robbie's skin. Well, I mean, once he picked up Mjolnir and that's when it was like, Oh shit, that's the dude.

And in this, in this like book, I was like, the fact that everyone, everyone is like, so like, we have to go to this. They kill bots.

We got to this. And cap's like, no. And they're like, okay, I guess we can't do that. I'm like, oh, shit. Cap, oh, fuck you.

He makes sure the team sticks together at all times. Everyone's trying to fraction off. And they do fraction off. And they get mad at him for not being always pro-mutant. That one scene in this, I was like, oh, this is kind of like the X-Men 97 scene. With Wolverine? Oh, that's such a good scene. It's really well written.

He's like, oh, yeah, I wrote that down. Wolverine's like well written he's like oh yeah i wrote that down like wolverine's written so well in this because he's kind of a dick but like he's so wolverine he's so logan yeah it's so good like oh man that scene with when when wolverine he's like oh mutants can't rely on human kinds yeah is this really does like it talks about it but then you don't really talk but then avengers versus x-men also like basically like they have that same scene this is like the beginning of it it's such a good scene again jim shooter be better be better you're so good jim shooter has like 99 overalls on all his like ratings and then it's like humanity one yes exactly perfectly higher perfectly put i'm like it's like it's like all

this action and then like this fantastic dialogue and then like i'm like god just be a better person all right we're taking another quick break from the comic book club to talk to you about our friends at turtle beach today's episode is brought to you by turtle beach, the number one brand in gaming headsets and accessories and their new gen three stealth 600 headset picks up so much crystal clear sound. It's basically cheating. I absolutely love it guys. You guys know I got a little bit of a big noggin here,

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whatever it may be, go to turtlebeach.com. Use code BASEMENT. Keep the lights on here and support our friends at turtle beach back to the book club comic book club come on we're not full born adults still comic book club um obviously i love the spider-man versus x-men scene where like he's just bouncing around they can't even like touch him i like that misunderstanding too when he's kind of crawling around creeping he sees the X-Men talking by themselves and he's like I think they're up to something no good

but I do like how again whenever someone becomes they start to show someone is a little too powerful he's not he can't handle a telepath and that's how they bring him back down perfectly balanced immediately Professor X is like you don't remember that perfectly balanced

I wrote damn Magneto, Mr. Steal Yo Wasp. Oh, those piercing blue eyes. I know it, man. This was also so funny. How about Doom being like, hey, I need some backup. And he goes and makes himself two bad bitches.

Oh, Volcana and Titania. They come out of the test play looking like models of the era it's like Doom I know what you're up to there they're Titania plays a big part in Immortal Hulk the current I guess it's over now but like that recent

Hulk run that is 10 out of 10 that's probably the best Hulk run since like the 90s I want to say and Volc's is fun uh she's always been like that's the one her relationship with the molecule land is kind of a fun little thing but they're the there's an oh I cannot remember the the issue but they kind of go back into their backstory too and they're both just outcasts in Denver and this is why like again they take these two weak ones and make them dope i know man poor denver man um and then r.i.p my dog wasp like they they make us think wasp is dead

for a big part of this story exactly but the way they dump her body initially is kind of savage it's very much like it's very much like ancient greece with like come get your hero and just yes and she kind of plays like the phil colson role if you want to relate everything back to the movies where they have to rally around her there's also like conflict around that too because the heroes are a lot of them are like all right let's go kill them because they killed wasp and it needs to be for a while like let's calm down and talk about this because we need to make sure that we don't walk into a trap here um was one of the covers Death of an Avenger and it had her dead like in the morning?

Dude, every single cover is fantastic. Every single one. When you get to that like red break in the page, every single one is good. It's because they want you to walk across, walk down the aisle. And this is before the internet where the only way you could get it was when you see it.

Here it is. Yeah. It's all spectacular. Yep. Death of an Avenger. And there she is on the bottom of the page. If you're watching on any of the videos. So good.

So good. And like you said, the ensemble pictures in the beginning where you'd see like all the heroes and then all the villains. Every single one hit. I couldn't believe getting to every cover i was like they're throwing a perfect fucking game in the covers this is the beginning of the the introduction of titania and her relationship with the absorbing man who which is a very on again off again toxic joker harley quinn relationship another guy didn't know anything about so never absorbing their absorbing man you could write an entire arc where he wipes out the avengers single-handedly and it would not be unfeasible for that to happen because he is so

powerful but so dumb that he just doesn't realize how powerful he is and this they kind of go into it on this one he like he regrows his arm with this when they make him the stone right and he just like puts it back on that was a major development that that was the first time we got to see that happen and he is such an underrated character and he could wipe out all the avengers and all the x like he could just touch like adamantium and just become adamantium he could touch vibranium and become vibranium he can do that like you saw like Ultron can blast him and he just absorbs the energy like

he is basically what molecule man is except he does it in a physical form he is so OP but that he is such a stupid lumbering idiot that he just doesn't get it molecule man is too sensitive for his own good words oh he is such a stupid lumbering idiot that he just doesn't get it. Malku, man, is too sensitive for his own good words. Oh, is

everything going to be all right? He's like, he doesn't want this life. And this guy, Absorbent Man, he's like, I love this life. And again, him and his girl, every relationship where the guy calls the girl by a body part where he just calls her legs, that is doomed from the fucking jump.

Legs, yeah. Classic, like like 1950s i know this is the 80s but that's like 50s and by the way they they they drew them they drew sinners in those fucking oh yeah jesus christ the enchanters too another one of the funniest moments in the entire book is when Doom is trying to steal the power of Galactus but fails. And then he jumps into bed all depressed and he's just tired. Inconsolable. Even Cap, when he goes and tries to talk to him, Doom's just like, I don't want to talk about this. He's just so upset in his bed.

That cracked me up every time. Again, that's just trying to show you how powerful Beyonder is. Because Doom's thing is if i can't have it no one can have it like if my face of power i mean how about the enchantress power not working on cap because he's an alpha male yes he is literally like she tries to use the she tries to use the powers on him doesn't work and then later on when they're trying to use like the power of the beyonder to like atomize him he's just walking through it he's an alpha now which also is confusing this is i was gonna wait to get to that so that again jim shooter be better because it's such a good scene where

we don't that if it's a lot of reading between the lines it's one of two things that happens and they don't explain it and i think both answers are right and it's why it's a lot of reading between the lines it's one of two things that happens and they don't explain it and i think both answers are right and it's why it's such a fascinating scene where the scene but again the when you when claw is when doom quote unquote destroys the heroes but with that big energy blast and then like zaji does this and all whatever claw is telling doom like well this could be happening but it might not be happening but because doom can do whatever he wants it might did he accidentally manifest it and make it happen with his reality bending powers because he doesn't actually want the hero's death he's just and he

doesn't know how to control it at him a little bit and so the end it's i it's one of two things it's either like internally doom doesn't want to kill captain america so he's killing him but is it subconsciously resurrection or it is claw with the beyonders powers in the backgrounds because his eyes are laying up a little bit bringing him back to life it is one of those two yeah and we don't know what it is. And both of them are right. Yeah. I like that. I like that as well. I like Captain America just being too alpha for anyone's powers.

A hundred percent. And when he surviving the Nova blast, it was great. You know, shooter was, you know, shooter was getting off on that too. He's like,

now this is a man's man. He kills. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Johnny storm going back a little bit johnny storm being able to overheat ultron was good because i know just all technology in the 80s like the worst thing that could happen to it was it overheating that's a good point that's very funny the wasp taking out all the drone was also a fun little moment too yep it was just a way to show how how yeah she's dead but like let me remind you i'm not just this damsel in distress that can be swayed by magneto i could also take

out the supreme robot single-handedly and then she talked about like her manicure as being you know a million miles away it was a very interesting character something i did not expect from wasp i'm gonna be honest i'm gonna put my hand up and i'm gonna say something that might get me attacked here and i gotta be honest in the basement we're 52 minutes into this podcast so i'm really burying the take you gotta be one of us to like be here already you know this is the comic where spidey gets the black suit for the first time a little underwhelming that it's just a magic costume machine he walks into i thought it was gonna be some symbiote sick origin venom shit no it's like hey we got this thor's like hey they could just make any costume you want walk in there and he comes out and he's venom and

i was like oh i mean the suit looks amazing i love the the blue details on it like the shadows and stuff but i was just like all right guys buckle up yes buckle the fuck up because this is breathing starting the deep breathing start this is where so hey i like how you brought up the blue because there is a very there's a big argument online in the forums and in the world and the comic community what is your your favorite black symbiote variation? Is it the blue highlights? Is it white highlights? Or is it purple highlights? I like blue. I am a blue guy. The purple one, I think,

works very well in the Ultimate Universe. And the white one, I think, works really well when Flash Thompson is Venom. But I am a blue guy through and through anyway this is where that retconned moment really starts to come into play and they explain the reason okay so the reason the symbol before i get into that the reason the symbiote is in that little room is i'm sure you guys saw the venom trailer the, the new Venom trailer, if you haven't. They show Null, the god of the symbiotes,

who has been there before time existed. He predates everything. He predates almost everything. The symbiotes are created to become a symbiotic relationship with an organic individual and then kind of corrupts their mind and they take over their body like a parasite does for some reason this symbiote was you know he wanted to work with his host he didn't want to be evil he didn't want to be a bad guy he wanted to become like he wanted to be a good hero uh and the other symbiotes are like nah you're weird and put him in jail basically and then that jail

was taken wherever that jail was in the universe was a world that was stripped from that world to be put on the battle world it was the denver of another planet it was the denver of another planet so that is essentially spider-man freeing the symbiote from jail accidentally okay now now i say that i say that but the red and this is where this is new and i like it some people hate it there is a comic book series called deadpool's secret secret wars okay and the whole thing is deadpool was there with the heroes the whole time and we just don't know so it's what people wanted them to do a little bit with like putting daredevil or putting a deadpool and wolverine in endgame and we didn't know it the whole time like that they thought they would do that in the movie it's's like they did that in the comics. So they did it in the comic books and he is there from the beginning.

Like he shows up in that big splash page and it's just his weird guy. Right. And then like he falls in love with Zaji too. He hooks up with the wasp. He's doing all this. Like he runs into the final room to confront doom with captain america and saves the day his face gets healed so he's like a handsome man with a big beard and long flowing hair and when he goes in when his suit is all ripped up and everything and there's a lot of stuff that

happens into that we don't really have that again it's like it's it's like six issues to go through and he goes in to get his new suit and i didn't think it was canon it has since been kind of confirmed it's canon where he pulls he's like i'm gonna fix my suit and then that the symbiote pops out and it crawls on him and he's just like oh this is weird so deadpool wears the symbiote before spider-man and the but then he recognizes that it's a living creature and he goes this isn't fair i can't do this to a living creature so he puts it back and then walks out and spider-man walks in he's like oh yeah there's a machine right there and then spider-man gets the ball now the it again, heavily implied in this issue that when Deadpool wears it, he goes, I would hate. I think his exact phrase is, I would hate for my crazy to drive this symbiote insane. So Deadpool's psychotic warped mind is the reason why the symbiote becomes evil is because it i kind of love that i

love that too so it's all deadpool's fault he made this symbiote crazy and then eventually and the fact that you like this i know you're not the biggest dead no i'm not in the world so i feel like this is like i need to read deadpool secret secret wars next it's and we we also like late like decades later learn that that that's not a spider on the like what like why would if deadpool war i would make that why would it be a spider that this symbol right or it's on the back of yours that symbol is the is the is a dragon which is nulls uh like battle seal so that is an that is null god of the universe's dragon battle seal that he also wears on his chest so that's not a spider that was also on deadpool's chest uh deadpool basically saves the whole day not he's not the sole reason that

it saves the day but he's like part of the team that storms the base and he's the reason the symbiote's crazy and all this other stuff um and then they do but he obviously hooks up with the wasp when he's handsome he also hooks up with zaji and then when everyone dies he saves saji who then saves everyone so deadpool is the one that so zaji dies and then deadpool saves her who then she saves everyone else. And then at the end, when his face gets kind of mutated and melty again, the wasp sees him and is like, oh, man. So Deadpool feels bad about himself because wasp only liked him when he was handsome because this wasp is very kind of self-absorbed. And wasp feels so bad that she kind of hates herself for it she's like how could i be so shallow so her wish at the end is to forget

she ever hooked up with deadpool and then and then battle world took that as we want everyone to forget deadpool in general so that's why no one remembers deadpool was there because the wasp goes i i gotta forget this this one that sounds awesome so that deadpool's like is wiped from everyone's memory that's why he's not in this original secret wars and then it flashed because deadpool also falls in love with zaji in this point too and then it flashes to um his wish was to bring zaji back to life so then it ends with a flash to her planet back back when she because her planet goes back to like her that her denver goes back to her planet um and it's all of her people like walking around she's like

walking down the streets like with a kid and like waving to people it's not his kid but like yeah her child with like one of her own kind. And it's a very like kind of cute ending. So his wish was to bring Zodgy back. Wasp's wish was to make everyone forget Deadpool existed. I have to admit though, I thought it was kind of hilarious. Zodgy was the only person who basically ends up dead.

Like that was hilarious. Like the one pure soul of everyone. And also the one that uh probably didn't have an action figure for sale probably not you know probably not but yes definitely go read deadpool secret secret war it's that sounds awesome it's a fun little it's a hysterical it also sounds like it must have been the most fun book to ever write oh you're the right oh i can imagine like because back and visiting the most iconic comic moments the writing is very much like jim shooter's writing like dialogue wise but then they just threw in like a modern

day writing of daredevil so i'm like it's it's it clashes it just clashes yeah i mean we kind of saw that in deadpool wolverine right where it's like he is going all these different points or he's even the composer i know you had to be geeking out when you saw the wolverine crucifixion uh oh yeah i was like oh yeah 100 that was and then like they did the rob lightfield's feet at the end like the shoe store at the very end i was like oh they know what they're doing here i was like geeking out in the theater i yeah 100 also how about i just realized this the other day how about comic act comic accurate wolverine his only like flaw is that he was short like all the other ones attack deadpool or die when this one he's just a guy who's too short and deadpool never goes back to him never

even asked me he wants never never it would have been funny if he showed back up at the end yeah like if if some of the wolverine variants showed up to fight some of the deadpool oh yeah i didn't even think about that. It was fun. And did you see the concept art for the Deadpool Wolverine mashup? That was badass. They should have had that one in there somewhere. That was super badass.

Some of my final notes I had. Doom dealing with the cosmic power for the first time. I loved when he realizes just how powerful he is. It was almost like the power cosmic, power cosmic. Sorry. Yeah. Peter Parker dealing with his spider powers for the first time.

And just being like, Oh my God. Like, I don't know what I can control. I hear everything. I see everything. It reminds me of, I don't know if you read it yet.

I know I, I went last time I took you to the comic book store in Vegas. You bought Superman for all seasons, correct? I did read it. Yeah. So all star Superman, which is probably one A, one B for the best Superman graphic novels ever. That's a Grant Morrison one. Lex Luthor gets Superman's powers and he's just like, oh, my God, this is what he sees all the time.

Like he can see things on subatomic level. He can see sound. he can hear light. And he's like, he can hear all the, all like the cries for help. And Lex Luthor all of a sudden becomes a good guy because he's like, he's like, I get it. I totally get it. And like, that's what this reminds me of

when Doom sees, like sees everything that he could have. And then it's like later he realizes he basically can't use or lose his powers like he's like if i you know for a second have any kind of fall asleep if i lose concentration everything can be destroyed but he also like he can't lose those powers he's so determined to keep the powers so it does make him so overpowered obviously by the end when he kills all quote-unquote kills all the heroes and stuff but it nerfs him a little bit in that way where it's like well he can't even really use the powers and he tries to get like the beyonder to like 1v1 him as well and he's like fucking 1v1 there is a

i've talked about it way early and i know I've talked to Robbie about it in person. There's a very good. What if story of what if doom kept the beyonders powers and actually beat the heroes. And he eventually gets the infinity gauntlet with the beyonders powers and then fights the, um,

Oh, he fights like the cosmic gods from the eternal movies that you see yeah um and beats and it's like and he it's like a centuries-long battle and wins he wipes them all out and he he becomes the god of the universe and at this point in time like earth has been knocked off its access and is like careening through earth and is back into another ice age and then doom is like he's achieved everything he wanted but he goes there's nothing else but he sees humanity trying to survive so he restarts time basically like he goes back to like 1940s and is just a farmer and he's happy and he's just happy being a farmer

i i almost felt like when he realizes his power and the insignificance of farmer and he's happy and he's just happy being a farmer i i almost felt like when he realizes his power and the insignificance of everything and he's in space obviously i said dr doom became dr manhattan almost or he's kind of just like that's a good shot yeah good shot um random random note i had this one scene where we have the enchantress talking to the elemental and she tells them all about uh the beyonder oh yeah here she looks like taylor swift a little bit nice a little bit there's also a panel she really doesn't but that one she kind of did it's uh so this that's that scene right there sets up secret wars 2 a little bit uh same thing as when enchantress makes that deal with uh vulcana at the end for like remember when enchantress like teleports vulcana it's a molecule man yeah that kind of

comes back into play into secret wars 2 as well where you also get an actual physical embodiment of the beyonder in secret wars 2 um but this touches upon it oh it's such a good that one was a little silly to me that was a little silly when the monsters just show up i was like oh this is again this is the thing people criticize current marvel movies for where when there's 10 minutes left they're like here's a bunch of cgi monsters but you'll definitely do that in the movie i but the beyonder i they haven't used him a lot and i think that's a good thing they don't want him to kind of they don't want him a lot, and I think that's a good thing. They don't want him to kind of – they don't want him to be like the Carnage, the Venom, the Ultron, where he just pops in whenever you need to sell stuff.

But he is without question one of the probably five most powerful beings. And he is from the Beyondverse, which is beyond the multiverse. And he is basically a child compared to the other Beyonders, which is why when Doom gets the powers, if Doom got the powers and went to the Beyonders, the actual matured Beyonders would

wipe the floor with him. This Beyonder is basically a kid who is just literally, this kid is playing with action figures in a world. Instead of action figures, they're superpowers because his origin story is playing with action figures in a world with instead of action figures their superpowers because his origin story is molecule man was a scientist that was uh working on song i can't remember what he was working on but like he had a an accident in the lab that gave

him his powers but that accident opened up like a rip in the universe that bled and the beyond verse bled into it so the beyonder experienced human hope hatred love he's felt he felt human emotions for the first time so he goes i let's see what they can do and just threw them all on a planet and that's what i see like what they what they were asking yeah right exactly once they were to defeat their enemies what what would they ask me for? What are their desires? The Beyondverse is also what, because things have leaked through before from the Beyondverse, and that is what leads to the Cosmic Cube. That was in the movie, right?

Yeah, in the first Avengers. So the Cosmic Cube is like spillage from the Beyondverse. Which then they made like on the inside of it was the space stone it's like they broke the cosmic cube and the space stone was on the end they kind of like combined the two things into one that's not i guess that works for the movies the tesseract yeah yeah um but yeah pretty much my final note was like i liked she hulk swapping spots with the thing they just had a costume ready to go for her and stuff. Uh, the whole leotard ready to go.

Well, the current true, they did. Yeah. They had the special one. Um, if you buy the current edition of it, they do include a lot of cool covers,

pictures of the toys in the back. Um, there's a really good forward. Um, who's the forward bias, the forward from 92 from tom defalco and it tells you all about you know the history of why they had to do this and they refer to dc a bunch of dreaded competition i always love that um but yeah secret wars we did the first one i

hope everyone read it and i hope everyone had a good time reading it clem did you have a good time reading your first comic in years yeah i did again it was a lot it was much different than i expected based on so just hearing about secret wars but lots of fun the whole x-men versus avengers dynamic was cool and the x-men were a little less in it than i thought but i always thought of this i mean you see it in the cover like they're leading with the avengers guys so and the avengers held up pretty well considering what they were at the time like jose said and I feel like they were pretty hot during that time they would the X-Men were red they were scorching hot at this time I mean and again I guess I have to address this now my guy Iron Man wearing roller skates was a tough one the roller skates battle was crazy I forgot about that that's so

funny the roller skates battle was hysterical you just fucking it's almost like the batman and robin when they click their heels in that and there's like other heroes like uh like photon captain marvel we didn't really talk about yeah we didn't mention her yeah captain marvel hawkeye was just kind of there yeah hulk uh this is not my favorite iteration of the hulk in this like it's like it's. He's called Smart Hulk. Yeah, we didn't even really talk about that. I'm not a huge fan. He's only smart because of so much

gamma interaction or he has so much gamma around him that he gets Bruce Banner's brain. That goes away real quick because this is not Professor Hulk. Professor Hulk is later in the 90s. In the 90s and eight in the

90s that rules um this hulk in this in secret wars is what they use in the movies the mcu like when they did uh infinity war and endgame which i'm curious i know the roosters are such big fans of secret wars like they're like we like the infinity gauntlet stuff but we grew up on secret wars that's the stuff we love. It makes sense that they would take some things from that. But I wonder if now they regret not saving it for secret wars. I don't know. It would be interesting.

This is, it would be interesting, but yeah, because at this point it's like, are you going to do Avengers doomsday and secret wars? Two more movies of smart Hulk, the current way we've seen them, you know, in the previous things.

I feel like you almost have to revert him back to Hulk smash at some point. Was Hulk popular back then, Jose? I feel like he was a big deal. He was. A, because of the TV show with Lou Ferrigno. Obviously, he was very popular. So just the name itself. This Hulk was very popular because it was like very, it was very popular so just the name itself uh this hulk was very popular because

it was like very it was very 80s uh the scene when he had when he fought daredevil but this one he was a mindless hulk again in the daredevil frank miller run is iconic that is one of the 10 out of 10 single issues y'all read of the 80s because hulk beats the fuck out of daredevil um and this is the beginning of when yeah hulk rules this is the beginning of when he becomes dumb again then it starts to like take off of like all hulk has from that point on in my opinion some people don't like it i think it's been home run after home run for the Hulk. Okay. I know you're a big Hulk guy.

He's not just a lumbering idiot. At the beginning, I'll end with this on Hulk. Remember at the beginning I said in hindsight, the heroes are more overpowered than the villains? Yeah. In hindsight, the way the comic book world MCU is now, you could have had just Hulk and all of those villains and Hulk would have crushed them. He don't need Thor. Hulk would have beaten Galactus. The Hulk right now would have beaten up and eaten Galactus.

Come get some Galactus. Come get some. The Immortal Hulk. I'll put it all this is the way they there's a scene in immortal hulk where it flashes to the end of time if they don't explain what happens but everything is black there's no stars there's no life there's no planet there is a singular floating asteroid and it is bruce banner then God, the one above all, shows up, and he goes, what are you still doing here? And then he looks up, and he turns into the Hulk,

and Hulk eats God. Oh, jeez. Yes. It's very metal. It's so metal. All right. That was the other, real quick, Bob. We have a lot of villains we still have to meet

if they're going to do anything like this, or they have to remind us. They kept killing villains in the MCU for some reason. I assume they're just going to bring all those back. That's what I was thinking. I was like, the iconic villains, a lot of them are dead. So I think you're going to show up and Killmonger is going to be there

and it's going to be like, either it's a variant because they've been doing multiverse variants constantly or it's just the Beyonder had the power to bring him back somehow that's a very you have to do the beyond their line like jose said it being one of the top 10 most famous lines in marvel comics they have to do that line word for word a whole line you if you if they if they don't do that through the crack in space yeah pass that dude i want to see i want to see secret wars at the fucking las vegas sphere and see the crack in the sphere show up or something

we need that and obviously the most important villain they got to bring in like doom like i'm excited for doom this got me even more hype for doom doom is very integral to uh the fortnight thing right now. So clearly they're getting it all going. And obviously Robert Downey jr. Is going to be a part of that. If, if they have doom,

you have to also have Mephisto, which means, Oh, that was the other thing. Doom's mama, her soul is being held captive by Mephisto. Yeah. Metal.

I read that and I was like, that's fucking awesome. Yeah. That man never shows up just like in the fucking MCU. Yeah. It's talked about and not. No way, man.

Oh, that was very, all right. Yeah. That was our secret wars comic book club. Let us know what you would like us to do. A next comic book club of, I know we've talked about other secret war stuff,

but we could hop around. We could do a DC thing first. We can go all around. So this is a new segment. I hope it's a hit. And we'll see you next week for more Penguin recaps.