My Mom's Basement - EPISODE 432 - KEVIN SMITH RETURNS

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Kevin Smith joins Robbie to discuss the 25th Anniversary re-release of #DOGMA! They discuss the movie getting its flowers, the original controversy, the sequel, and more - plus, a fact-or-fiction game about the movie's most famous rumors! #KevinSmith **************************************** My Mom's Basement is a weekly podcast hosted by Robbie Fox, started in March 2019, to discuss movies, music, comic books, wrestling, mixed martial arts, and more with his friends and idols alike! Subscribe on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-moms-basement/id1457255205 Follow Robbie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatrobbiefox Follow Robbie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RobbieBarstool My Mom's Basement Merchandise: https://store.barstoolsports.com/collections/my-moms-basementYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey My Mom's Basement listeners, you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Alright, welcome back to My Mom's Basement. It is Robbie Fox back with Kevin Smith. Now a recurring guest, honored to say a recurring guest, and we are here to talk about the 25th anniversary re-release of Dogma. It's a great year for re-releases. Revenge of the Sith just crushed it and Dogma is up next I think we're gonna make as much money Robbie. I think I'm pretty convinced I'm much money. I I was when they told me like I was coming back East to do movie opens today Everywhere so they were like you go do New York Press and then I was chiefly back here for Trebekha tomorrow night And then I was chiefly back here for Trebekah tomorrow night, Logics movie debuts and I exec produced and edited the movie.

So mostly the journey was about that, but they're like, since you're gonna be out there, can we give you press? And I was like, okay. Then when I saw you, I was like, all right, this is the thing I'm looking forward to. Oh wow. I appreciate that. That is so nice. You got to talk to him, man. It's always fun. I am so happy. You're the only motherfucker a bar stool gives a fuck about Kevin Smith. No, that's not true. to him. It's always fun. I am so happy the only motherfucker barstool gives a fuck about Kevin Smith No, that's not true. I promise that's not there was a buzz in here people have been cool

But if a lot of years that you guys went from like a newsletter to fucking a goddamn Empire. Where was I recently? Andrew Santino Santino's podcast and we were talking about like the barstool, which I guess is, where is the main headquarters? Chicago now. That's what he said, and it's decked out like sports in every room, and we were trying to figure out like that is a sports podcasters,

laid out like a sports podcasters dream. So we were like, what does a podcaster podcasters dream studio look like something like this is it something like a basement would just be more of this yeah like it generally when you look at the sets of your modern podcaster you're seeing their taste who they are reflected in the artwork so I don't think there'd be any big surprises yeah Like, you know, if suddenly fucking they came into a windfall of money and shit like that. I think the decor reflects, like, it makes sense.

I appreciate that. A lot of our office is out today filming random stuff, but even like our guy in the equipment room putting the cameras out wrote what's a newbie and on the mic over there. So there was a buzz when you were coming in. And I love that this re-release of dogma and the tour that you just wrapped up I've been seeing clips and tweets about dogma on my for you page

And then we're a couple months and it's great because listen I was born in 98 so I can't act like I was around During you were there. No cycle you were on the planet I was on the planet could have been like you staring at a TV when you were like one and change Yeah It seems like a lot of the press around that time and I went back I listened to a lot of interviews you did in 99 yeah was all about the controversy always and it feels like this time of course that comes up a little bit But not movie yeah this time people were talking about how much they love it It is crazy man because I went on tour with the flig. I'm done with the tour

We did 20 cities. I did like two shows a night, and then we'd do Q&A afterwards, and the first show Q&A would be like an hour and a half, second show would go like two hours. So I was Q&Aing as long as the movie itself. So I got to reconnect with the movie in a way that I haven't like in years. I used to watch it on YouTube every once in a while

if I needed to pull a reference for something I was writing. So I got to sit there and watch it. And it was so lovely, because I got to spend like night after night with some of my favorite people I ever met at their absolute youngest. They're all so baby faced. Like when we kicked off the tour,

it was 420 Easter Sunday and we were in Los Angeles. So Jay was there for that screening. And me and him are leaning in the back watching the flick. And I'm looking up at him, and for my money, he steals the fucking movie from everybody. He's so goddamn engaging in that picture. Steals it from Ben and Matt. Steals it from Chris Rock and from Alan Rickman, even, if you can believe it. So I'm looking at him,

he's just sitting right next to me standing leaning against the wall. So I was like, I gotta tell him man. And I go from looking at like the baby face muse up on screen to the withered fucking crypt keepers standing to my right. Because it's so many years later, we keep saying 25, but it's really 26. We stretch the truth just like the Catholic church itself, man. Just 25 looks better on a poster, right? It really does. 26 has a lot of explaining behind it, but it is. And technically like the movie came out in November of 99, most people started fucking with it in 2000. So that would be the- Because of home video. fucking with it in 2000. So that would be the because of home video release. So I, you know, I can, I can cognitively reframe it,

but it's been lovely with the weird thing is watching the rotten tomato score go up. Like has it been climbing because it's getting new reviews? Yeah. Which is weird because they told me like, um, like logic right now has his movie debuting at Trebekah. And so we were like, let's get it reviewed and stuff. And it's been difficult, man, for people, like a lot of folks were canned, and then people were getting ready for this,

and they're like, well, I'll get to it if I can. But Dogma, they were able to get it rereviewed, like 45 different papers or news outlets or whatever. and I think that has everything to do with like it's a pretty easy review to do if you've Seen the movie before yeah true, and if you've seen a few times and stuff But and really all you have to write is like looks great in 4k but if apparently Like yeah, somebody just texted me the other day, it'd be like, you're on Tomatoescore moved. And I was like, I never thought I would see that.

Like I didn't, I had no reasonable expectation they would re-review the movie. But it has been nice not dealing with controversy or protest. I did see three quasi-protesting moments that just don't, as an old salt an old hand at this They just don't rise quite to the level of protests that I'm used to back in the day like we're here in in New York We first debuted at the Cannes Film Festival in 1999 they had to install metal detectors in the Palais

For the first time because there were death threats next time we screened was here in New York at the New York Film Festival So we get out of the car Got baby Harley's is only about four months old we put these baby wings on these angel wings on her So she looked like a fat little cherub and stuff get out of the car thousand people protesting in front of Alice Tully Hall Big statue of fucking Mary like lots of people praying the rosary at me and shit like that. So the point, someone put a brick through the wind front window of our house, 400,000 pieces of hate mail, three legitimate death threats. Um,

I got it. The sounds anti-Semitic is not my words. It comes from the one of the pieces of hate mail that I will never forget. Cause it was so very specific. Said you Jews better take that money. You stole from us and start investing in flack jackets because we're coming in there with shotguns signed your brothers in Christ. So it was like a hairy time back then, man. And you're right. We never really got to talk about the movie itself. Did you feel that at the time too, that absolutely overshadowed? Yeah.

Cause for me, when I was making the play you got to remember like clerks Ma, right chasing him here birds of a feather and you know, it's like well, alright, I see what he does He does the Jersey burbs Dogma is like this trippy religious comic book like my ritual Avengers as your yeah Austin Austin a Harley's fiance the guy was in a 430 movie He saw it when we kicked off the tour and he had never seen it. And he goes, it's like the biblical Avengers. And I was like, Oh my God, you're right.

It is kind of, and he goes, why didn't you advertise it like that? I was like, the Avengers didn't come out for another fucking decade plus. So it, you know, it was, um, nice this time around to actually like engage, like, because each night We did two Q&A's and all the press that I've been doing and we went back to Cannes I just got back from Cannes last week where this movie now has two sets of laurels on it So we went 99 you get a set of laurels official selection out of competition. Then we got another fucking set for Cannes classic man, so it

Is crazy and nobody talking about, you know, hey man, how's your life? Like, who's been threatened this week and shit like that. So people are engaging with the movie in a weird way. And in a way that I wasn't used to the first time around. So it's been lovely, but it's crazy. When the movie came out in 99, of course it was all about like what the fuck man fucking death threats and shit now when I engage with the content like it reminds me of

Like when we were shooting the movie, like I thought I was so clever. I was like this is fucking So original man, like you show me anything like fucking dogma. I was very fucking Follow myself as a 20 something. And this is fucking amazing. I'm gonna win a fucking screenplay Oscar. This screenplay's so goddamn original. And so we're shooting like the third act of the movie. And you know, it's like, the spoilers,

like if you haven't seen it, the characters from having to go inside the church, the door closes and shit, and they go away, least special effect in movie history. Like normally when they send people Heaven, there's like clouds and shit like that, we close the doors of a church and that seemed to be enough. So, you know, Linda's character, Bethany,

Jay, Silent Bob, me and Jason Muse, we're outside the church and shit. And so we're over, over us onto them, do our clothes and Linda every time, whether she's on camera or not on camera, rolling a tear. So I thought when she's doing on camera, I was like, wow, that's awesome. Thank you. But then she kept doing it on camera. It's like, well, either that's very polite for the other actors or like she's really fucking moved by something she's feeling.

So after our last take, I was like, you keep crying. She goes, I can't help it. She's like, just, it reminds me of the wizard of Oz. And I was like, fuck, thought I had an original movie. And then really it is just kind of the wizard of Oz. Yeah. In the same way that like Jane, Silent Bob, Shrugged Back is really just I thought I had an original movie and then really it is just kind of the Wizard of Oz Yeah in the same way that like Jane Sahl and Bob Sherrick back is really just the Muppet movie like You you think you're doing something original and then you realize oh, I've been influenced by every fucking movie I've ever seen so it winds up in the DNA a little bit. So yeah engaging with the movie itself as a story This time around has been useful. There were three protests adjacent moments when we started in Los Angeles as I was running to that screening, ran to the theater.

I saw something in my peripheral. It was at the, the Grove, that outdoor mall. And so there's a dude waving me in cause I got to take a picture on a red carpet thing. And he's like, yeah, as I got in, I was like, what's going on outside and he said, no, nevermind. Just get on the red carpet, take a picture. as I got in I was like what's going on outside and he said never mind just get on the red carpet take a picture I said well no what is it and he goes you're being protested I was like oh like and I had to go look and see what it looked like made me feel young and it was a guy and a girl like a man and woman holding one had a stick one had the other stick and then there's a banner between them had a a image of Mary, like why, crying and shit like that.

And then it was one guy giving out leaflets, nobody around him. A trio protest, just three. Trio, and I was like, this is fucking, it's been years, so I went out and took a selfie with him, they didn't like that very much. So that was one, the other one was when I was in New York for the New York screening.

I got out of the cab at the AMC Lincoln Center and there were these like well-dressed dudes like wearing like coral outfits like they were in a choir or something. And they had signs and it was clearly they were protesting dogma being at AMC. I was trying to figure out what's your way in and their way in is like AMC shouldn't be doing this but they don't know that fucking movie theaters are hurting so bad AMC is like you can hold a black mass in here for $600 you know crucify us about it go go do whatever you want. So I when I got out of the cab I don't think they made the connection I I don't think they were like, it's him! But they started singing and they started singing God Bless America and it was really

beautiful. But they had their moment. They really could have just like taken it out right there, pushed me into traffic. Nothing. Thank God they didn't know. It would have been a nice way to go out. What a hell of an ending to the Wikipedia page. To God Bless America.

Oh, in the background? Fucking come on. This is a TV movie waiting to happen. Wow, what a hell of an ending to the Wikipedia page. To God bless him. Oh, in the background? Fucking come on, this is a TV movie waiting to happen. So, I don't know if they even make those anymore. It's a streaming movie waiting to happen. And then the third protest was in Dallas. I was pulling into, most of the tour took place through AMC theaters,

with the exception of the one that was at Smod Castlele, my own movie theater. Smodcastle Cinemas, Atlantic Islands, New Jersey, come on down. Most of them were through AMC theaters and most of those AMC theaters were at malls. So every night was like dogma 1999 flashback and a mall rats 1995 flashback. I was I was not in the present I was definitely mired in the fucking past. So as I'm about to pull into the mall like right there on the side here's me in the driver's seat here's an empty seat next to me then then on the street right outside the car is a kid 18 19 it was crazy by himself holding a white poster board and had a miniature version of our current dogma poster

There's got the buddy Christ poster a buddy Christ on the poster in set into it and it said AMC blasphemes with dogma or something like that So a kid was by himself man, and it's like what heart yeah, you know what I'm saying So I you know you see someone with a sign you lay on the horn like it during the strikes Whenever you saw somebody protesting or striking So I laid on the horn and a kid lit up so happy to get some fucking love and he looked and then he looked At me locked eyes with me and saw and then he looked away shunned me That was that was the hardest I was protested this time around man I felt my dog does if I go to take a picture of her When she's shy I had a dog like that. I might my two yellow labs back in the day

I had scully and molder were big ex-files fans and Scully, you know You could fucking take pictures of her all day long because she was there for the advent of the digital camera onto the phone And stuff so you could take pictures of her all day long. She didn't care. She was just like They said she was a yellow lab. I have my doubts and she, she almost like was Warner Brothers cartoons where they paint something to look like another animal. So she, you could take pictures of molder, who was a purebred yellow lab came from and like the American kennel association

kind of dog. You bring a camera next to him. That motherfucker, it got to be the right time for some dogs. But it was so strange. Like how do you know what this is? But he really like, he didn't like that thing pointed at him and stuff. It made me feel like there's something going on in that dog that's more human than canine. Yeah. Thank you for reminding me that, man. That was a pleasant memory to bring up. I've been so, you know, busy fucking telling dogmas stories.

Sometimes I forget to just... Shout out to the actual dogs. You know what I'm saying? Yeah the dog mom Yeah, they'll come in there now. I know we're talking about a sequel for dogma at this we are well talk about right now Do you worry about protests and oh protest? No like that stuff at this point I remember in 2017 you were like I don't want to make a movie about religion again because of that only thing I worry about now is people being like cringe old man like that that's more terrifying to me than somebody protesting on a religious level.

You've been through with protests, red state as well, like you've gone through so many of these, you're pretty experienced. And they you know they're there for them not you that's what I've learned between between the, you know, the Catholic league. And then later on, uh, the Westboro Baptist Church, you're such a small part of the equation. You're the thing they stand on to make a lot of noise and they don't even recognize you a hundred percent. So I'm not so much worried about that, particularly because like, I, I, I know what it is and it's, it's not, but then again, said this feel that about dog. I was gonna say the last time I did this I was like nobody gonna be mad This is a profaith movie and shit and people got mad until they saw the movie once the movie came out

All the people that fear mongered couldn't fear monger anymore because people saw it and when they saw it The big criticism then was like it's kind of embarrassing How much he believes in this shit. Like, that's what I would get. It flipped completely. Yes, I got tagged for the most because the Catholic League, it was never the Catholic Church, Catholic Church never says shit about this movie, has still never even acknowledged this movie exists because they're smart enough to know if you don't want somebody to pay

attention to something, don't fucking say its name out loud. So the Catholic League, the self-appointed media watchdog group, which I don't fucking say its name out loud effect. So The Catholic League the self-punished media watchdog group Which I don't even know exists anymore at this point the guy that ran it was guy named Bill Donahue And he was a white hair back in 99 so I can't imagine he's still alive to this day But I heard shit from the Catholic League not about me or anything in a long fucking time So it probably went away, but those cats cats made a bunch of noise and whatnot. And so, you know, I know I'm not gonna deal with that as much this time around.

Again, I think, because I didn't think I was gonna deal with it last time either. But they only get the window between people first hearing about it and then people eventually seeing it because ignorance is bliss and so they can feed you any line of bullshit about what the movie is and when they did back in the day when the Catholic League was like this with the movie says this is what the movie says what bothered me as a filmmaker was oh my god they're setting me up for failure. They are priming the audience for a movie I didn't make.

For a worse shitting on religion movie. Like I always use the example of Life of Brian and I love fucking Life of Brian, but you could tell Monty Python had an agenda. They weren't like raised in the faith and they're like oh I'm gonna celebrate my faith. They were like fuck these people and they went at it and stuff.

So I felt anybody going into dogma looking for that movie. This is our atheism movie. Yeah, like he's going to give it to the fucking church. And it's like, wait. You poke fun at the church. A little bit. It raises a hairy eyebrow. But the rest of it is so incredibly pro-faith

and believes in everything. So much so that when we're making the movie, I've told the story a zillion times, but I'll tell it again. George Carlin's in the movie, probably one of the most famous lapsed Catholics on the planet. So I did the movie because he's like, I love it. It fucks with the church. I think that's hysterical.

So we're shooting in the third act, man, like when he's rededicating the church, been a match of angel characters show up. They snap the cops neck and all hell breaks loose. So George is like, what's going on in this scene again? I said, all right. characters show up they snap the cops neck and all hell breaks loose so George is like what's going on in this scene again I said all right so the boys show up while you're doing your thing they snap his neck and everyone starts running and then we cut to another scene and presumably off-camera they start fucking killing everybody and he goes how's that get him in the heaven I was like through

plenary indulgence loophole and he goes and into heaven? I was like, through plenary indulgence, loophole. And he goes, and that is, and I was like, you're an old Catholic dude, you should know this. I said, the church can appoint a day where you can make a church, a cathedral, anything, sanctified and holy enough that when you pass through those doors, every sin you've ever committed is forgiven, if you're truly sorry. Which, you know, they told me when I was like, how do you know this? And I was like, they did it at my church when I was a kid, like 19, when I think I was 12 or 13,

they had the hundredth year anniversary of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. And so we got this holy dispensation where on this, on the day of the actual anniversary Anyone who walked through the church's doors was forgiven of all of their sins and when they told us this in Catholic school I was like, are you serious because it's so rigid with the rules like, you know There's you are constantly on the razor's edge of falling into hell with even masturbation something you'd read in a comic book 100% it's like who fucking invented read in a comic book. 100%. It's like who fucking invented this loophole and why is this okay?

So, you know, I was talking to George about it and I was like, so it happened in our, you know, I was going through catechism and shit and he's just watching me and like nodding. He has his face on, like the face that an adult has whenever a child over explains Star Wars to him. You know, he's just like, and then finally he goes like, you really believe in all this shit, don't you?

And I was like, yeah, I do. I was like, you were raised Catholic, you know? You just explained it. Yeah, and he goes, no, I'm smarter than that. So he was the beginning of the end of my faith to some degree and whatnot, but the guy who made the movie, and I watched it every night for the last month, he believes 100%, like wholeheartedly. It ain't

him making fun of the faith, it's him defending the faith. That's my idea of a Sunday service with anal jokes in it so that people are more interested in shit. Like I've watched it this time around and I was like, oh, I get it. Like if you know your Old Testament, what's his name? King David, like at one point strips down to his fucking skivvies and starts dancing the fool in front of the Ark of the Covenant Through the streets of the Holy City on behalf of the Lord because he fucking loves the Lord so much as I watched the movie Every night I was like that's my version of that This was a kid who loved his faith couldn't understand why he went to church every week and Everyone else around him seemed to be mourning their faith and he was there to

celebrate it and I loved it like I know I'm not Catholic anymore and I Don't identify as Christian per se but I live pretty damn Christian all the same way I was raised all the same tenets of Christianity love one another put everybody else first and shit like that. I Still live that way. I just don't subscribe to the newsletter so to speak and whatnot. So when I watch the movie, like it reminds me of like my entire life up to the moment I started writing that flick. I started writing that flick before I started writing Clerks. It was called God, very ambitiously titled. It

was like 200 pages. So plays like like a child's prayer You know and that child happened to be in his late 20s when he made it But I for that the thing that I'm more scared about Then you know Motherfuckers being like let's kill him again for a possible dogma to is More motherfuckers being like why'd you do this yeah like you you that movie was one perfect but it was as close as you're gonna get why the fuck did you touch it why did you go back why do you

keep doing fucking sequels and that is like I don't know I'll ever be able to satisfy that person but at the same time I know there's so many people like myself who are like please we want all the sequels we want every sequel you could give us. It's true and I'm one of them. I'm a massive Kevin Smith fan so like the idea of going back into dogma world specifically like ain't about money because you don't make money off this shit like seriously you do not make money off Kevin Smith movies. If we got like if dogma to got picked up

I like fucking Netflix or Amazon or one of those motherfuckers that are like drive the money truck up or used to apparently they don't do That shit anymore either It's gonna be a low budget affair like when we had our screenings during the tour at Smod Castle I Went through the archives and we pulled some cool shit I went through the archives and we pulled some cool shit to hang in the theater like for people coming to those screenings Because that theater is just one big fucking museum anyway, so it's like alright dogma specific stuff And we found the deal memos for Alan for Ben George for Linda And so it's like dear Patrick White soul. It's dated August

1997 you could read the Alan one on your Instagram on my Instagram And so it's like Dear Patrick Weitzel. It's dated August 1997. You could read the Alan one on your Instagram. It's on my Instagram, yes. And the Ben one, roughly same, just as Ben's name and different character name. But all of them are offered scale plus 10. Movie minimum wage. Yeah.

So if we're going back, it's likely going to be that. Like ain't nobody lining up to be like, here's fucking 50 million for a religious Odyssey You know unless it's Chris Nolan doing fucking the Odyssey Which is in itself a religious Odyssey, so I you know when if if we do it It's a long way of saying it ain't for a check. Yeah, it's gonna be because like are you kidding me? Yeah, I get to like play with these guys again or I get to after all this time. Think about it.

My whole life, when I started writing Dogma, I was 22 years old. By the time we made it, I was 28 years old. So let's say 28 years of a life at that point to feed that movie. It has now been we're saying 25, but it's really 26. By the time I get to it. been, we're saying 25, but it's really 26. By the time I get to it, maybe it will be 27, 28 years since the last one. And that's the exact amount of time that went into the first one.

So it's not like, I'm not defending this by going like poetry at rhymes. And also I got to live a life. Yeah. Like I got to live a life the first time. And that created dogma, all my experiences, all my beliefs are the beliefs I was handed by my parents and stuff. And then after that movie, it breaks. So now I've got that whole half of my life to feed this followup, this second incarnation. And I don't know, like it excites me more than like if somebody had said here's

a bunch of money do it the year after. Yeah. Because then it just would have been like they're back. Martell B, Loki, Rufus, you know, just this time around now as I'm writing it, it's exciting. It's its own movie and it's definitely predicated on what went before, but it's nothing I would have done back then. And it's now informed by like a lifetime of Megan movies. Number one, number two, almost dying seven and a half years ago, losing my fucking mind two and a half years ago and my absence of faith.

You know, I like to echo the movie and say, like, I don't have those beliefs anymore. I just have some good ideas. So all of that is going to go into the dogma sequel. So you know, if I can allay anyone's fears, I would not touch this movie unless I knew that it was worth the journey. Like I could get paid other ways, you know what I'm saying? Like I can go stand on stage, just tell stories about making dogma and telling stories about what a dogma too could be

and make a living, you know what I'm saying? So if I'm gonna step up, it's gonna be worth the journey. And I think I've had enough life experience thoughts ruminations I'm now you got to remember closer to fucking the end than I am the beginning don't like me it's true I'm a kid she's like no you're gonna live to be a hundred I was like no I'm not and I wouldn't want that but I'm now like closing in on an end.

Like, you know, when I wrote dogma, fucking whole life was in front of me. I'm gonna be 55 in August. I'm not saying I'm gonna die the next week, although that could happen. I almost died fucking seven and a half years ago. But now clearly the end is more in sight. That's definitely gonna inform the cosmology

of a dogma follow-up. So I have been having a blast, and I wouldn't be surprised if it like came with its own weird journey back to faith of some sort. No, certainly not back to the church, man. Like, you know, they're doing just fine. They don't need my help.

But some relationship there, like it's been something I've been thinking about as I've watched the movie every night, and then people ask, they're like, hey man, can you still feel that way? And I had to be like, not really. And people are like, oh. But like, it's crazy man,

like there was a part of the movie every night played and it felt like someone was walking over my grave is whenever Bartleby faces God at the end, starts crying, he's like, I'm sorry and shit. For some reason every night that really like hit me in a weird way. And then I was like, oh my God. Like is that, is that somebody trying to tell me something?

Like fucking get clean. Prepare thyself bitch. Cause shit didn't work out for Bartleby in my case. Like the way I think of it. Some people are like, Oh, do you go to heaven? And I was like, I guess if you're one of those gooey new Christians, sure. But if you believe in that old time religion, I'm a motherfucker went to hell. So I, that's what I'm honestly more afraid of is, you know, as, as previously mentioned, went to the fucking nut house as a diagnosed codependent people pleaser who cannot validate his own existence,

fucking up dogma. Just, I can't like, I couldn't, I wouldn't, I would just not go near it and stuff. So the fact that we're even talking about it and it's looking more and more real, I'm here to tell kids it'll be worth the journey. This is the thing that I love about it so far. Five minutes into the movie, you're gonna go like, Oh, like, and it's gonna you're gonna clicks. Yes. But not in the way where you're like, well, now what am I gonna do for the next hour and 55? But you'll instantly get why we're taking the journey and why it

why it makes sense and stuff. I have a dogma game to play do it dogma or dog shit yeah I'm gonna read almost wore my shirt the guys who do you know goes creeperama kids and make those amazing fucking shirts I while we were waiting for you I ordered two of them I mean they're awesome I love those guys and I love their product even before they started doing our shirts they started doing our shirts because I saw one and I said to our legacy guys they reach out to them man because I want to make more shirts with them and so he reached out to be like cease and desist and they were like all right all right but they were living

and he was like but my client wants to work with you and stuff so I love the creeper Rama guys they went with me on tour yeah they like so I'm wearing one of their shirts right now they sold the merch like like a punk rock show They they've drove from from City City on the tour is absolutely wonderful. So Though they did they gave me while I was on tour white t-shirt With dog is dog in my lettering and on the back is a quote and they were like this just for you I was like, please sell this I was like, you, only make like 200, but people who know will absolutely adore the shirt. I love those guys.

They make amazing fucking shirts. I ordered a dogma one and a mall rats one. The mall rats poster one, awesome. Their mall rats poster art is honestly better than the art that we had on the home video release. But that ain't saying anything. If you ever saw the mall rats cover on VHS and laser disc It's pretty fucking bad when we finally got on DVD. They use the movie poster which or version of they use just the like the

You and Jay on the front and then they had on the the original movie poster looks like is juice trus and of course classic Okay, and we have it hanging as well which McCall itima, call it, at, uh, Jane's Sight. Not, we used to have it at the Stash. Now it's at Smock Castle Cinemas. You can actually see, you see the brush strokes and shit. It's an amazing poster. So, pfft, fantastic piece. So it looks like a comic book cover and it's slightly skew and stuff like that.

So what the 15th anniversary DVD did was, you know, lop off the top and put yellow and new like brighter colors on the side or bolder darker lines or something like that but that poster that's true Zen did is absolutely fantastic like that is a piece of artwork that like I remember it came out and buy from him somebody was like a man fucking mall rats artworks up for sale and I was like get the fuck out of here how much and this is going back now I've had this piece for like 20 years at this point so I bought it maybe five six years after the movie came out you got to remember the movie flopped hard so this was not a juice trues and poster

there's an item not the thing exactly we speak the same language always so they offered it to me and I was okay how much and they told me and the price at the time was $30,000. Wow. And I sweated it so fucking hard even considering it was like it's a one-of-a-kind it's the poster and the backstory is the folks at Universal when they were marketing the movie they were like you guys got ideas for the poster because it kept showing us poster artwork We're like this feels like we they didn't have this expression then but this feels very try-hard Felt like they were like gen X right like fucking and it's like there's about gotta be a better way in and shit

And so they were like well, what would you guys do? And so I drew a very crude sketch of like okay Brody's here and Renee's holding on to his leg like Luke Skywalker and Prince Lay on the poster and blah, blah, blah. And then Moser did his version because mine is so he's like, I know what these things are because I know you. He's going, if we're going to hand this over to somebody else, let me draw it. And so he drew another version of it. That's what we handed over to Struzan. And and it's true. Zan fucking did that so even on that level. It's like this ain't just a true strews and peace It's about your movies and somewhere in there is my DNA let alone my fucking face on the poster So I was like, all right, let's do it. I have no idea what it's worth today

But a damn skippy probably 30,000 definitely is worth more than 30,000. It definitely is worth more than 30,000. So what I'm getting at is who wants to buy Drew's True Zanamers of Nowhere. You can see it man, it's hanging up right at Smartcastle Cinema. So I just have a few facts pulled off the Wikipedia or the IMDB trilogy. I will either disabuse you of those incorrect notions or confirm them. Some of them I think I know the answer to but I think they're very fun the first year You're very studied in the Kevin Smith arts my friend very studied I honestly you and me in a trivia contest like I think we might go head-to-head I think I blow you out of the water

I think you might actually give me a run for my money first being you have a puppeteering credit in this movie I do haven't P Smith. I do I. I threw that in there to differentiate myself. That's my Alan Smithy credit. Kevin P. Smith. Puppeteer Smith. Yes, the, it's so funny, I never get to talk about this. I think I talked about it once while I was on tour. The wings that Alan's wearing in the scene where he, Metatron appears to Bethany, he

wore them like a harness on his body. And so the cables that control them go through the back wall and then a fake wall. And then behind this plug wall were these two levers that you operated, you know, like, and one you pull this one this way, the wings went up, you pull this one that way, the wings go out. So you can bring them up and out and bend and down so I'm sitting there behind the monitor and we're shooting the scene and I'm like you know the wing work is real dead like the open once fold and then they just kind of hang there so I'm like I don't know it feels like we should be using the wings man to like punctuate

the dialogue and so I said you know what on the, I'm gonna go, can I do the thing? And Vince Guastini was the guy who created the wings and stuff, he was like, yeah, go ahead. So I went in and I had a monitor with me, but I also knew the script really well. And so I was, fwoom, fwoom, fwoom, constantly operating his wings while the scene was going on.

And they told me later on, they were like, we gotta give you a puppeteering credit. I was like, ooh Finally a credit in the movies, but we fucked Allen's back up so badly that day by the end of the scene He dropped to his fucking knees. We had to get the wings off him and he was out for like two days We had to send him to the chiropractor because those wings were heavy as fuck 60 to 75 fucking pounds and every time we're moving The levers he ain't ready because I'm just like doing it whenever I'm like, Ooh, that's a good line.

And so it's torquing his back and he's trying to maintain a performance throughout and shit. So he, I remember he was so graceful about it, but like he, we lost him for two days. So if you watch the scene where they're in the restaurant, where he shows up right before the beginning of third actor, he's like going in style, going out in style. He slides into his chair in a perfectly Alan Rickman-esque entry, almost Snape-like.

You know, he loved to use his body and stuff in his performance. But this particular slide into the chair wasn't a choice as much as it was the only way he could get into the chair and sit because he was like in agony so every moment he's not speaking in his coverage when we cut to somebody else I remember in the footage Alan's constantly like yeah and then as soon as he's ready for him he's just like well I'm gonna say we get drunk cuz I'm all out of ideas and you would never know he was in pain but yes it led to a puppeteering credit But as you can see since I fucked his back up never puppeteered again Yeah, so Jim Henson me the next dog or dog shit is Alan Rickman related did Alan Rickman

Drive the cast and crew nuts with a set of maracas that he took from the Mexican restaurant. He did keep the maracas He was so charmed by him In a very British way where it's like we don't have these where I'm from so he did keep them I don't know if he haunted anybody but periodically he would bring them out. He did ask to he we didn't just steal him He was like can I have these? Yeah, which was a real like it was him so I was like, of course But inside I was like that was supposed to go to Jane Sondbob secret stash my comic book store fuck

Gwyneth Paltrow Pepper Potts herself was on set for the opening scene in the airport I've read that but I don't I don't know if that's the case man Like I remember if he started about on the commentary and I don't know if that's where it comes from I'm sorry listen to the commentary lately and it's joked about oh, yes She was right off camera But I almost couldn't tell if you guys were making a joke because I think that's your love that just happened but had it now that didn't happen for a minute because Goodwill hunting happened. Yeah immediately they did dogma while they were winning their and Matt were in something together

weren't they well here Ben and and Gwyneth would be in Shakespeare in love together. They would also do bounce together later on Yeah, so we can figure it out by look up bounce real quick They I don't honestly I don't think They were dating at that point, but I don't know it's a blur So we're shooting in 98 and Then you know bounce comes out in 2000. Seems like a stretch but maybe not.

Yeah I just I think we all would have remembered that. Yeah. Yeah and honestly I hate to invoke the fucking name everyone tight in your sphincters but Harvey Weinstein ran Miramax. If Gwyneth was there. He would have tried to get her in. He would have maintained like she needs to be on camera. Like she's already there, put her on camera and stuff. So yeah, that I don't. Now, Gwyneth did a voice in the Clerks cartoon

in that tracks, cause that was 2000, same year as Bounce and stuff. But yeah, I don't think she was there when we did Dogma. I don't know that they were dating at that point, because, yeah, look up Journey Oscars 1998 that's when the boys won because remember they took their mothers yeah so it wasn't even like he was there with Gwyneth I guess I mean maybe tail end of that year is when they start to him I don't think she was there on the dogma set um did you

originally ask you know what a hundred percent no oh cuz I know some stuff behind the scenes where I'm like oh no I know for a fact that wasn't the case Gwyneth came late dog shit fake fact on the IMDb fake fact Was later on was Danny Elfman I'm gonna take credit Gwyneth was cuz of dogma She loved that dogma movie and she was like I gave that angel a try Also gave you the idea for the vagina candle and I never for the vagina candle and I never get the goop come on did you originally ask Danny Elfman to score this did it yeah the offer was yes oh my god this is good I mean this is so therapeutic I'm getting shit out we I went to Danny's house oh shit and me and Moshe I have very specific memories of he had we

brought the movie to him and I we waited because this wasn't like I'm gonna do a different room and watched it while you guys were out yeah yes my god and we hung out like waiting for him for the two hour length of the movie and so at that point it was even longer because it was the pre-can cut yes it was like maybe two and a half so I I did I remember meeting him that day and and then like he passed he was just like, he didn't say why he passed. I think he said he was too busy or something, but it wasn't too busy to watch it.

It looked like it did. And I saw him interviewed in something years later. I was like, Oh, I was there. I was at that fucking house. But yeah, he didn't want it. He passed on doing it. He said he was, it was busy. He said he enjoyed the movie, but it was busy and stuff.

But that opened the door for Howard Shore. Now, Howard Shore does an amazing score on this movie. And then years later, Howard Shore does a tiny independent film nobody ever saw called Lord of the Rings trilogy and show. And so there's a piece of music in this, in dogma where Alan, you know, his character, Metatron, shows up on the water, walking on water to talk to Bethany.

And there's this beautiful haunting piece that Howard composed for it. Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na Really fucking sweet. And dogma. When I hear it, I think of dogma. And years later, I'm watching Lord of the Rings, also composed by Howard Shore. Certain sequence. I think of Dogma. And years later, I'm watching Lord of the Rings,

also composed by Howard Shore, in certain sequence. Na na na na. Hey! But you're allowed to do that when you're a composer. Yeah, yeah. You can reference yourself. So, you played by yourself, yeah. But yeah, and that's what it is.

It's not really a reference, because it's not like people in Lord of the Rings are like, Dogma! Oh! There was one person in the Lord of the Rings like dog there was one person in the theater there was dogma calling my lawyer being like can we make money off this somehow Bill Murray Adam Sandler and John Travolta were considered for as rail before Jason Lee wound up being slotted into that

part is that true all right do the three names again Bill Murray and Sandler never Bill Murray I love Bill Murray too much to ever try to cast him in a Kevin Smith anything John Travolta was doing Michael and then or a lady said Sandler turned it down for Big Daddy no that true no I don't remember ever going out to Adam Sandler for something and not because I'm like how I guess I I don't remember ever going out to Adam Sandler for something. And not because I'm like, I don't like him. I just don't ever remember going out to Adam Sandler. He had his own thing going on.

And then he would do Little Nicky. And then he would do Little Nicky. That's right, I remember going to see that movie in theater and being like, aw. Asriel, I saw a deal memo for Alec Baldwin in the archives. So we went out to Alec Baldwin in the archives. So we went out to Alec Baldwin for Asriel and then Jason Lee winds up playing Asriel, but Jason Lee was meant to play Loki.

So him and Ben were, you know, buddies in Chasing Amy. So I was like, oh my God, there'll be buddies in dogma. But then Jason Lee was offered a movie in France, a French cuisine movie, where he was going to learn some French to do the parts where he was very excited about it and shit. And so he was like, can you move the movie? And I was like, no, I can't move the movie, man.

Like, no. And he goes, well, I wanna do both. And I was like, you gotta pick one, I can't. Like, you know, and so he went with the French one, which made sense, because it was real, there was money, it was happening. They were like, you know, and so he went with the French one, which made sense because it was real, there was money, it was happening. They were like, here's an offer. Our start kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed

and stuff like that. So we wound up pushing and in his absence, once Jason Lee left, Ben was like, Matt'll do it. And I was like, oh my God, absolutely, let's get Matt to do it. So when Jason Lee finished his French film and he came home, we still hadn't shot Dogmeat. He was like, oh my God, you didn't shoot yet,

can I be in the movie? I said, yeah, but Loki we already cast. He goes, who? I said, is Matt? And he goes, ah, that makes sense. And I said, but you know, there's one part that's not quite cast. I said, we're out to Alec Baldwin to play Asriel,

the devil part, the demon in the movie. And he goes, yeah, I'll do that. He's going, I don't need to stand next to Ben Affleck in a movie again. And I said, right on. So I guess Alec said no. I don't think we pulled the offer back.

And then Jason slid right into there. But the Sandler, I don't ever remember, Bill Murray and Adam Sandler, Bill Murray, I know for 100% fact, I've never reached out to do anything because there's a process, right? Like you can't just, hey, call Bill Murray's agent. You gotta call a number and then hope that he shows up and stuff.

And I like him too much and his work too much to like walk away going, well, I hated that. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes they say don't meet your heroes or whatever the fuck. I don't think it? Sometimes they say don't meet your heroes or whatever. I don't think it's a case of don't meet the guy. But like, you know. You could leave it be.

I'm a fan, lifelong fan. He's inspired my characters. I don't get to a Randall or a Bankie or a Brody without a John Winger or a Tripper or any of the characters that he played when I was a kid. But I've always been told, if you love Bill Murray, don't fucking try to hire Bill Murray. It'll drive you nuts.

And so I was like, fair enough. And I was Wes Anderson, so that shit wouldn't have worked out for me. Sandler, like I was not, that was not my SNL, that generation. It's an interesting thought because I feel like you guys both have such distinct 90s comedy styles Well, that it's more than that. I mean, you know together that'd be amazing

I mean, let's be honest be better for me than him This is a dude who's like I'm stuck in the 90s out and Sandler knows how to fucking live in the times and shit Especially that is happy Gilmore twos coming out Yeah, hey clerks three now on home video dogma to coming soon like happy go more to film the New Jersey It is I heard man. I heard somebody was like I saw fucking Ben Stiller running down the street I was like holy shit, but I think Ben Stiller been there before though because he does that show The average one's like Jersey to and they shot it in the Bell Labs place by us the The building where we do like events and stuff kind of cool

but um alright so yeah those three and what was the other one it was a Travolta yeah no which I know he was huge Jackson you were thinking about we did go out to Samuel L. Jackson and then Chris before Chris Rock was cast Chris Rock came in and we were out to Samuel L. Jackson Chris Rock was like, in fact, if I remember correctly, I think, and I'd have to check with Scott Moser, but I think when Chris was like, I want to do it, Harvey was like, give it to Chris. And we hired Chris.

And we hadn't received a no from Sam. And I think, I'm not sure, but I think some money had to change hands. Yeah. Because the part was offered. Yes. Yeah. Because you know, it's apparently a big no-no in the business. You don't offer it to one actor and then give it to somebody else unless that other actor passed. But it's like they had to pay Billy Dee when Tommy Lee Jones was Two-Face. Was that right? Because they said, I think in his original contract, you're gonna be him. He will be Two-Face, yeah.

I mean, on one level it's like, thanks for the money, but on the other level it's like, oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Although we did get Billy Dee as Two-Face eventually. Yeah. Thanks to Lego Batman. And the comics, the Batman comics they're doing.

Yeah, and then the final Dog Mer, Dog Shoulda Had. I think this one is true. You offered this to Robert Rodriguez to direct at one point. I did. I've told this story recently because I was on tour and shit. When people, when you're in a Q&A format, it can go anywhere and sometimes people pull a memory in. Nine times out of ten, it's going to be a dogma story I've told 10,000 times since 1999. But every once in a while somebody jogs something and you're like, oh fuck. So once on tour, somebody jogged that

and I was like, oh fuck. And then once in Cannes, somebody, one of the, you know, they love American cinnamon shit and they were talking about Robert. And I was like, oh fucking Robert. So here's the story. So I met Robert via, oddly enough, I mean I'd seen him in the past and talked to him and stuff, but like,

we became more friendly when he called me one day and he goes, Warner Brothers wants me to direct your Superman script. And I was like, oh my God, fucking do it, man, do it. And he goes, I like it, it's a really fun script and stuff. He's going by, I just, I don't know as much about the characters, I think you do, and I just like, can we talk about it?

I was like, my God, yeah, let's talk about it, talk about but then please fucking do it like that would be amazing and shit. He wound up Doing the faculty because he felt he owed Bob Weinstein So he said no to Warner Brothers and he went and did the faculty instead, but we maintained a friendship So I called them like the month before we, I went out to Pittsburgh when I was in my apartment in Jersey, right on Broad Street next to the old secret stash. And I had this real like crisis of, and you're saying to Pittsburgh meeting a month out from shooting a month out from shooting.

Wow. Yeah. I was in New Jersey. We were shot, shot the movie in Pittsburgh and it's a month from me leaving to go to Pittsburgh to shoot the movie. And I start going like, I can't do this. Like I'm gonna ruin it. So I call up Robert. I had this brilliant idea.

And I'm like, you know what, Robert can help. I call up Robert and he's like, hey, what's up? I was like, hey man, would you direct Dogma? And he goes, what? And I was just just like I got this script and it's fucking good man, but I know I'm gonna like ruin it like Were you worried about the action sequences or like stuff like that like this is being visually interesting Like if you look at clerks and mall rats are chasing, Amy They all kind of look like they were the same movie like, you know, they're shot in a very straightforward simple way

This is a fucking you know, there angels there's devils there are dead people giants you could just go places with and stuff so I got real like I can't do this it's just too big for me and he was very sweet he goes Kevin you could totally handle this he's going you got this he's going just the only thing you need to do he says is pull your characters away from the walls. And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, you got two characters in every shot and you put them against a wall.

He's going, you need depth. You could put a window behind them so that you could see out that window. Or better yet, just don't have anything behind them. Depth is what you're missing, Kevin. Great practical advice. Really was. Yeah, wow.

Changed my, my life as a filmmaker and shit. And so what also helped was you know fucking Wes Anderson, God bless him, fell asleep for like 10 minutes and allowed me to steal Bob Yeoman. Because Bob Yeoman does literally everything, breathes for Wes Anderson. He's this guy, they're like this. So it's crazy that we got him. Yeah. Cause good luck, you know, fucking finding a space where Wes Anderson lets him out of his magic box and stuff.

So Yeoman came on and Yeoman was like, let's shoot it widescreen. And I was like, what? No, I said, no, I said, I don't make widescreen movies. He goes, well, you haven't, but until now, he's going like, storyline, that's a Bob. Bob is not a, hey man, Bob is like, storyline kind of calls for Kevin.

Like he does that, that's his approach. So I was like, yeah. It's almost more convincing. Very much so, where you're like, he's right, he's doing this, he must be right. He's doing it for him, it's not. Clearly, he's like, look, no skin on my ass. So he was the one, the compromise was,

instead of shooting Anamorphic, we shot Super 35. So if you ever watched Dogmon VHS back in the day, it wasn't pan and skin, they just opened up the top and bottom. But what happens is there's a shot in the movie where the moment where God is gonna clean everything up in the third act and Alan's like, oh, hang on a minute. And we rush at her with the camera

and then into a profile closeup and then we cut back to them and they react and then we cut back and everybody's cleaned up, there's no dead bodies. So in the theater and on DVD or any place where it's letterbox the way it's supposed to be in its correct aspect ratio is a fluid shot rushes out Atlantis and goes into a side profile it's wonderful on VHS camera rushes

toward Atlantis and dead Matt Damon who's not Matt Damon but Matt Damon's body double moves his leg because the camera's coming in. So for years online, people were like, bro, he ain't dead. I saw moving. I'm like, that should not be from Babylon. Absolutely, man. I think we might've done it once. We almost need to edit that explanation. Like the Ryan Coogler sinners, where he's like, if you want to see it on this format,

that was very successful. I saw a lot of people who, uh, where he's like, if you wanna see it in this format. That was very successful. I saw a lot of people who, I mean the movie, yes, but that. That video, that Kodak. Video, it really educated a bunch of people who were like, oh, I didn't know that. It's just his passion. You know, you could tell when he's talking about it that he's like, this format means a lot to me personally.

Like this aspect ratio, and he's like, yes, it does. I wish I could be that guy. That's why I'm not a true filmmaker, because I've never felt passionate about a format, a stock, or anything like that. You know, like, fucking Nolan is like, fucking 70 millimeter. And you know, some cats still to this day are like, I'm too on IMAX only.

Jason Lee is always like, shoot film, bro. I'm like, it's too fucking expensive. And honestly, like, you know, this is sacrilege, and a bunch of people are like, clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about. But I'm an independent filmmaker, man. Cheap, fast, easy. Can you edit fast?

I know, like, while you're shooting the movie. Shortest distance between two points. I don't have the kind of career that has given me the wherewithal or enabled me the kind of grace to be like,'s see 35 would be fun. Yeah, I know yes it's gonna add 10 million in costs so across the board, but We're doing it right like I've never been I can't beat that guy you're more practical What makes sense for the movie not what would not even what makes sense is like what do we have? Yeah, you know it's stone soup at all times like you bring carrots you bring fucking onions you bring

I'll bring a rock and fucking then we'll make something. So yeah, I don't have the luxury of that. There are so many times in the course of the last year where I've had this thought, I'm like, you know what, man, like if you had been a more successful filmmaker, you wouldn't be in this position right now. Like, you know, we had a movie fall apart recently,

but it looks like it's gonna come back together with different finances. But Jane Tombob's Store Wars. And as it fell apart, I was like, you know, we had a movie fall apart recently, but it looks like it's gonna come back together with different finances. But Jane, Tom, Bob, Story Wars. And as it fell apart, I was like, oh man. And then I was like, don't get pissy and don't get fucking like that. Don't get, oh man, it was amazing it was ever gonna fucking happen.

It's amazing you've ever gotten to make any fucking movie. But more importantly, blame yourself. If you had been more successful, if you had maintained or concentrated on a mainstream career that like Gave you success to the point where you can finance your own shit You wouldn't be sitting in this position right now So like it comes to me it riles me up and it comes to me down at the same time

But you can only take the journey you're on like I've got the benefit of knowing I didn't waste all that time Like whether you like the movies or not clearly I've got the benefit of knowing I didn't waste all that time. Like whether you like the movies or not, clearly my heart was in every damn one of them and stuff. But I do now as the end is near, I was like, perhaps I should have been, tried to be commercially successful. I wanna stop hearing this end is near shit from you.

But being commercially successful means you can do shit. When you're commercially successful, you could be like, we're gonna do the Odyssey Odyssey and we're not even give them the right hats. And people like, do it, do it, Chris, you know what I'm saying? That's not what Mohawk helmets. Yeah. We're going to make it look like they've always looked historical accuracy. Yeah. And that's not like jealousy by any stretch of the imagination. I get it. Like that dude, you know,

fucking went out with a movie about Oppenheimer and made nearly a billion dollars. And you do that kind of shit, you get rewarded with what do you want to do next? And I've always been rewarded with what do you want to do next? But there's always a ceiling and I've always kept my, my expectations and dreams and hopes under a ceiling. So I've never been heartbroken by like, Oh my God, I've dreamed too fucking big dogma was honestly the biggest I ever dreamed. That was me at my most ambitious and shit like that. And oddly enough, it did not fill me with the need to do more. I wasn't like, let's keep going. I was always happy to be like, right now we're here.

Now we're here. Now we're here. I mean, we've made movies that cost more than that and stuff, but my budgets have always yo-yoed and you just always in my line of work my particular And Kevin Smith business you just have to be willing to pivot you have to be willing to modify your expectations like my wife Jennifer You know She was like a cheerleader in high school and and like she always dated like football players and good-looking fucking cut dudes and shit And then we met and she you know I was not who she was thinking about fucking marrying or spending her life

with, but she was like, you know what, if I modify my expectations, I might be able to make a life with this guy. And we've been together like 26 fucking years. A little Easter egg for her in this movie, right? You're reading the USA today. That's right. You can see her name on it. Yeah. I was fucking, but when I met Jennifer, we were in pre-production on this movie and she interviewed me. And one of the things we talked about was Dogma.

And then she came out to visit while we're on set. So yeah, I put her name in there as well. How sweet. Got me laid, Robbie. Still does to this day. Dogma was also, I believe, Lionsgate's most successful movie at the box office before Crash. At that moment.

Yeah. Yes. I still have at Smod Castle Fr is the double page spread in variety where lions gave us like $30 million. They'd never made that much before and stuff. Lions gave for the uninitiated dogmas tires right now. That's worth saying. That was like something that was cool. It was cool. And it was cool that like we went with lions gate cause they were an upstart

company that hadn't had a bunch of success But the reason we went there is I guess I say the name again cringe clench kids Harvey Weinstein Would not sell this movie fine line He would not license it like so he bought it himself and then he licensed it to Lionsgate to take out the actually But he wouldn't do that for fine line. He wouldn't do it for like October films He wouldn't do it for a competitor one of the studios or mini majors or indie Distributors that he felt was like well fuck. I'm not gonna give them this So he chose Lionsgate because it was tiny and non-threatening

It was run by Mark Erman and Tom Ortenberg in those days And it's crazy to see what that company has become like that major studios now That 30 million dollars was long ago replaced by Hunger Games and Twilight numbers and John wick And they have 30 million to throw to like an indie director now. Yeah, it's about what they'll spend opening a movie. Yes Thank you so much for coming in and talking to me about dog But it's a movie that when I was going through the Kevin Smith catalog for the first time was unable to find I had to go On YouTube and watch a 480p version of it And then all I wanted for Christmas was the blu-ray that only came out in the UK

So I have that where it came in cuz I got a UK version of it where it's like an 18 plus Icon in the background, but it's a movie that I've watched a dozen times in my life that I genuinely love so much so I love that it's getting its flowers again and that we have in that crazy in theaters this weekend is so lovely yes if you can kids go out and check it out and stuff but it is nice to have lived long enough where people like I don't do much new that we like but fuck you were good back then I think this is only the start of the dogma resurgence the resurrection because when it comes to streaming and people start seeing the cast and they're like how the fuck is there a Chris Rock Ben Affleck Matt Damon Alan Rickman movie I've never seen it's true man

And they'll be like and why does Matt Damon look as young as Matt Damon's daughter in this movie holy shit He's and how many tweets are you gonna get from people being like wait a minute plays Loki in this and then in Thor It's I'm sure you get them already I get I remember when it happened Next time I saw him. I was like oh that was fucking badass, and he goes he didn't know He had no idea he's gonna. I pointed it out to him. He had no idea. I was like wow well We have it. It's for us. You know I Always feel like and not a complaint, but I always feel like completely outside of everything. And you're like, come on.

Like, not even come on, but it's just like, for as many days as I'm like, I'm in the movie business, and I know I am, and I've been around for 30 fucking years, one more year, and I'm a fucking chair or couch in the business and shit. But I've never really, but I'm always like, here's the business, and then here's me just kind of outside of it.

And I know everybody over here and shit, but like, it's so weird. Like, I know more about them than they know about me Yeah, well when you think like that try to think and or is you know an adult version of the conversation from clerks What Gilroy said that's the ultimate when I read that I was like And I know I listened to fat men beyond this week And I know I listened to fat men beyond this week Thinking about us going like and or is not I know you haven't finished yet. You have to I'm telling you I look forward to the first half of the biggest and or guy in the world the first half of season two I was like, all right slow, but this is a finish strong

The second half is as good as it gets as good as everyone says are you as big a Michael Clayton fan as I am Yeah, it's another thing. I was just telling Nick, I was like, you got to watch Michael Clayton. It's a fucking fantastic movie. I had watched it until like a month ago. It was the first time I ever saw it. You never saw part of that? And I watched it because Tony Gilroy. I was like, I love everything this guy does. I must love this. He is, him and his absolute fucking finest and stuff. Tom Wilkinson. Tom Wilkinson is so, he has that great fucking monologue.

Uh, was it Tilda Swinton is fucking absolutely brilliant in it. Clooney is wonderful. His whole family, like, cause there's this human drama going on underneath it. It's just so fucking well, even, what's his name? Ken, the White Shadow, Ken Howard. Plays Tilda Swinton's boss. Yes.

Such, and fucking, and what, oh, the late great Sidney Pollock. It's fucking fantastic. It is a movie worth watching kids Michael Clayton It's basically and or not in space And this is basically the Avengers but biblical retroactively finding ways to market great sell things to the modern audience Thank you so much again. Go see dogma out in theaters now