My Mom's Basement - EPISODE 8 - TOP 5 MOST UNDERRATED STAR WARS MOMENTS WITH KEN NAPZOK

Episode Date: May 13, 2019

On this week's edition of My Mom's Basement, Clem returns to update the troops on Operation #TerminateCameron and break down the newest ‘Spider-Man: Far From Home' trailer, and later on, Ken Napzok of ForceCenter Pod and the new book, ‘WHY WE LOVE STAR WARS', joins Robbie to discuss all things Star Wars Celebration/The Rise Of Skywalker, and the two list off their TOP 5 MOST UNDERRATED STAR WARS MOMENTS Get Ken's book, ‘WHY WE LOVE STAR WARS', now! https://amzn.to/2VYtzmVYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey My Mom's Basement listeners, you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Me and Ken are going to break down our top five most underrated moments in the entire Star Wars saga. But first, I must remind you to rate, comment, and subscribe. Rate, comment, and subscribe. What does it say? YouTube channel now? Rate, review, and subscribe the podcast on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're listening to it. It does help us out a lot. And before we get into our chat with Ken, I am joined once again by my main man, Clem. And we are going to talk about the Spider-Man Far From Home trailer. We're going to talk about how Operation Terminate Cameron is going. We're going to talk about how Clem is. Clem, how are you?

Doing good, Robbie. We just, just saw our 4D movie of Avengers. I think it was both of our fourth times. Is that right? That's right. Our fourth time seeing it. We went in 4D on Monday. And oh my God, it was something. I felt sore the next like three days.

The chair moves around like you're on a roller coaster the whole time. I was holding on for dear life. Yeah, it's quite a workout for bloggers like us we it was definitely a a physical the most physical activity i had in a while i literally just sat there and watched that movie again but uh we had to keep the terminate cameron train rolling so we did what we could to fuel the train we had to keep it rolling and there was a moment in the movie the first moment spoilers if you haven't seen endgame we're going to touch on it here, where Captain America fights Captain America. And the two of them kind of go over that one ledge, and they both hit real hard.

At that moment in the movie, the chair just punches you in the back. And I was completely taken by surprise. And I was like, oh, fuck, they just punched me. I didn't sign up for this. They have midgets sitting in the chairs. That's how authentic the experience is. Midgets just punch you as you're watching guys fight. It was unbelievable.

I'll tell you what. 4D was a fun experience to experience once. I don't think I'll ever return to a 4D movie, but I'm glad that we saw Avengers Endgame in 4D. Of all the movies to see, I think that's the one. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It was one of those things I was obsessed about seeing. And then once I saw it, I think that's the one. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It was one of those things I was like obsessed about seeing. And then once I saw it, I'm like, I think I'm good for a

while. I wouldn't go crazy, like change your whole schedule if people want to do it, do it once, probably go for Endgame. And that was also, I think, I think you said this on the rundown. That was when I was like, all right, I think I'm good with Endgame. Now I'm just going to like fiend for it to be on, you know, Blu-ray or whatever. I'm good with endgame now i'm just gonna like fiend for it to be on uh you know blu-ray or whatever i'm good with my theater experiences i probably spent like a hundred dollars when it's all said and done at the theater for it and i think i have now wrapped up my in-theater experience unless i still have to see it in imax and i would like to see it in imax with an infinity war double feature that's my dream wow oh my god that would be so much that would just be awesome because especially we're talking box office it would be some way to get that box office up because we got some work

to do clem avatar that record is sitting at 2.787 billion dollars and and endgame right now is at 2.303 billion dollars we still got a lot of work to do. Obviously, Detective Pikachu hits theaters last week. And let me redo that. Obviously, Detective Pikachu hit theaters last week. That's going to take away a lot of the international revenue. And John Wick 3 comes out, I believe, this week. Clem, we're recording this on Friday. I read a few articles this morning that said the final endgame total will be within $50 million of Avatar, whether it beats it or whether it comes up short. So it's going to be real close. We're in the endgame now, as Dr. Strange would say, and it's going to be real close. So I think I got two more left in me,

if we're being honest. I'd like to see it this weekend. If you're listening to this on Monday, it will have been last weekend. I'd like to see it once more and then maybe in Dolby. I haven't seen it in Dolby. I would definitely recommend you seeing it in IMAX. IMAX is the way to go for this movie. IMAX 2D, I think, is the way to go for this movie. All right. Well, there it is.

I guess I'm in for one more. Like, Robbie, there's going to be a thing where I thought you were going to say, first of all, it's going to be within $50 instead of $50 million. It's still crazy. I would give him the 50 yeah you're gonna be the iron man in this scenario where they're gonna and and like the russo one of the russo brothers is gonna just be like there's one scenario robbie you have to empty your bank account for this to break cameron you're gonna probably do it because you're a sick motherfucker you're gonna probably go like another 40 times just so that we could beat that goddamn thing i don't understand about this avatar thing avatar was in theaters for like two months.

More than that. Way more than that. It was in theaters for like six months. I thought it was like 40 days. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's like it was like 40 weeks. I don't know what it was. It was frigging ridiculous.

How a movie that like limited. I understand it was like a visual marvel. I'm not discounting that at all. But I mean, all the reviews said when it happened, it was basically pocahontas we've seen this movie a thousand times a bunch of you know white men come and destroy a civilization for like you know mining purposes or whatever for for goods and it's like that that's what the number one box office movie is we need endgame to take it down it's our job it's our duty as avengers fans to do this so we need it especially because we need that graphic there's tradition in in the film

industry where if you get your record broken your box office record broken you have to submit and almost like hand over a graphic congratulating whoever broke your record it started back with i think jaws and star wars back in the 70s. And it's carried through. And James Cameron submitted over a graphic that said it took an iceberg to sink the real Titanic and it took the Avengers to sink my Titanic. And we just need the Navi, that little fucking sex tale, handing over the record to the Stark gauntlet. That's what I want to see that little sex to i've we've reached the point where where we're talking about sex tales and stuff like that that's what

you know robbie's fired up and you're you're the the title of your blog is how i knew you were serious it says james cameron acknowledges endgame has sunk his titanic avatar is next bitch boy i'm like that's my that's my buddy robbie who's like one of the most innocent looking people you've ever met and it's crazy but shout out to our girl uh zoe saldana because yes he's gonna be in both of these when it's all said and done granted she doesn't have a huge role in endgame but you know gamora's back she plays some yeah no she deserves it she deserves she plays gamora very well in endgame for her small role i love gamora as a character too so let's talk let's move on to the post-end game world clem we saw a trailer for spider-man far from home last week and it was everything i wanted it to be

and more now sony when they control their own trailers i always get nervous because the far from the uh the homecoming trailer revealed way more than i wish they did. So when this comes out and they say, hey, we're going to reveal some Endgame spoilers, Tom Holland's at the front of it, I was thinking, I really hope they don't reveal too much about this movie, and I don't think they did. It starts off with some amazing Iron Man wall art, a mural of Iron Man in tribute to him,

and Peter Parker says the words, everywhere I go I see his face, I just really miss him. And he's got this distraught look on his face. Happy Hogan is consoling him. It's fucking super sad. And the Avengers theme is like softly playing in the background. It's super sad, but I'll say this. I want to live in a world with Iron Man murals everywhere.

I think Kevin Smith said the same on his trailer reaction. I feel like the sacrifice Tony Stark made in a fictional universe is worthy of murals all over the real universe agreed agreed it's like deandre the giant mural you know andre giant is such a legend that you just get like um obey um i i said this in my blog the other day of how i've always said harry stamper was like the most selfless act of all time from armageddon and he basically says goodbye to his daughter and then takes it on the chin and blows up on that asteroid. Spoiler alert for Armageddon. If you haven't seen it, it's like a 20-year-old movie.

But at the same point, Tony Stark has obviously surpassed that because he did the same thing with an even cuter daughter, no offense, Liv Tyler, who's gorgeous. But that, you know, I love you 3000. Morgan Stark is a goddamn cutie. And he does that. And he does it for the entire universe. He doesn't just save Earth.

He saves half. All planets. Thanos was going to take care of basically. He was going to be like Noah. It would be two of every species and everything else would be dead. And the fact Tony Stark did that. He deserves the murals in the real world. In the fake world.

I said every day should be. I said once a year it should be Harry Stamper Day because, you know, whatever day Armageddon takes place on, the last scene, every day should be Tony Stark Day and the MCU and the Expanding Universe and all that kind of shit. So – and yeah, the Avengers theme playing in the background, this is fucked up. Marvel officially has my money. Every time they play the Avengers song, it's like Pavlov's dog. I'm going, if DC was smart, they would somehow find a way to sneak the Avengers song in their things. Cause I might actually go to one of their movies from like,

like a dog whistle version of it where like, you can only hear it. Like you're, you don't even realize you're hearing it, but you are hearing it. Yeah. Like the, the lawyers wouldn't be able to like bring it to court in the way that they

would put it in. The one mural they show, by the way, at the end of the trailer of just spider of uh iron man's helmet if you look very closely in the like the shadows and the glare of iron man's helmet and the graffiti of the wall it's tony stark's face it's gorgeous it's like i was blown away when i saw the attention to detail and uh peter parker is still wearing the iron spider suit which i found very cool there's like a a cool scene of him using the extendable legs that come on the back of it.

And then he has a classic Peter Parker quip with the cops where they say, hey, you're going to be the next Iron Man now? And he said, well, no, I'm too busy doing your jobs in his frigging Tom Holland Queens accent, which I love so much. And then he – Oh, that dickhead from Deadspin must have been so angry that he was helping the cops. Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. He wrote that whole hit piece when Spider-Man was helping the cops in the PS4 game. Now he's going to be doing it on the big screen?

Oh, Jesus. Oh, my goodness. Shout out Sony for not being a bunch of fucking assholes and saying, listen, there might be a spoiler if you haven't seen Endgame, instead of just throwing spoilers right into people's eyeballs. So shout out to Sony for not being dicks. I have to give them credit for that one. Absolutely. And then they sort of kick the plot into motion

and Peter Parker tells the cops he's going on vacation. So, you know, make sure you're keeping everybody out of trouble. And he starts ghosting Nick Fury with Happy Hogan, which I thought was so funny. I love Jon Favreau as Happy Hogan. And I hope he continues to be a part of the MCU as much as he is in the Spider-Man films

because he's so good in that role. He's like just the most likable guy. Every time he's on screen, I'm happy. It's like Korg almost. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I don't know if that's how Jon Favreau is in real life. But you know when you see like – I kind of have him and Vince Vaughn always – they always remind me of each other too. I don't know if that's how he is in real life, but it feels like he's just playing himself.

I think it is how he is in real life if we're being honest because he kind of plays himself in everything he's in. You know, Chef was pretty much himself as well. And you watch him on the Mandalorian panel. He's just so passionate about everything he does. I think that probably is him in real life. And you love to see someone who's clearly passionate about shit that obviously we love too. You feel like the franchises are in good hands when he's doing it. Yes.

And it also kind of – I mean let's be honest you're like uh i think we're always going to worry about spider-man as long as it's not under the marvel and disney umbrella and just seeing him there kind of like reassures me like hey listen john's on set he's not going to let shit go off the rails too much like it's so it's stupid to say but it's it's how my brain works he started it all so spider-man starts ghosting nick fury vacation. I get the sense that he's probably a little Spider-Manned out after being snapped away for five years and then watching his father figure die right before his eyes. At the same time, so we didn't see Uncle Ben die in this universe, right? We know it happened or we know something happened with Uncle Ben in this universe and we're happy that we didn't see it because Jesus fucking Christ. If I have to see Uncle Ben or Thomas and Martha Wayne die one more time on the screen, I'm going to lose my fucking mind. But Peter Parker kind of got his Uncle Ben moment in this universe in Endgame. So it makes sense for him to be a little, hey, can I have a week without having to fight crime and be Spider-Man right now because I'm really upset. He goes on vacation. We start to see that little Mary Jane romance,

which as a comic book fan, as a lifelong Spider-Man fan, I'm like, oh, this is so awesome. We're finally getting into like, this feels like Spider-Man. Like Spider-Man's about to go into his prime with Mary Jane. Hopefully he's going to get a job at the Daily Buell by the end of this one. That would be awesome. And we see the scene we saw in the first trailer now where his best friend Ned, who I love so much as well, gets darted by Nick Fury.

And Nick Fury is just like, you're a hard man to reach, Peter Parker. And he introduces him to Mysterio, who we know is an iconic Spider-Man villain. But in this movie, it appears they're going to try to sell us on the idea that he's not a villain, at least for a little bit. And they introduce the multiverse they say the snap to our hole in our dimension and the multiverse has been opened in a clip they showed on the ellen show they actually refer to this earth and this mcu universe as earth 616 which is what it is in the comics and i nerdgasmed all over the place clem i did the absolute opposite because I whenever there was all multiverses in the comic books I was like my brain cannot handle this right now and there's

gonna be with like there's a potential movie or plots where different people from different universes are coming in and out and the numbers are all fucked up I do appreciate it though um I also the other that's the other side of things with sony handling it i'm like sony who like make sure kevin feige or someone from marvel is always on set so you guys don't fuck this up because it's very confusing for someone like me and i need someone to walk me holding my hand through all this kind of stuff here so i'm interested to see how it works but uh i do appreciate that you know this you kind of have to do stuff like this when you're ripping through the time travel like what did tony stark say like time travel hits back or something like that so it's kind of this is the repercussions of an absolutely epic fucking movie and endgame there's

just a ton of cool possibilities for me when i when you talk about a multiverse this is the way that you could introduce the x-men if you want to it's the way you could introduce the fantastic four if you want to if you don't want to start from scratch and you want to introduce the X-Men if you want to. It's the way you could introduce the Fantastic Four if you want to. If you don't want to start from scratch and you want to introduce the X-Men in their prime, you could say, hey, they're from another dimension or something like that. And super far down the line, and I'm talking 10 years down the line, when you've built the X-Men and the Fantastic Four and everyone up as much as you wanted to, and you want to do this giant team-up movie, guess what? Let's borrow Steve Rogers and Tony Stark from another dimension, and let's have everyone in the fray, in the fold, all together.

I love that Spider-Man brings up Thor and Captain Marvel, having experienced all these things and being, you know, back to being your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. He's like, why can't Thor or Captain Marvel do this? Like, aren't they the most powerful? And Nick Fury drops a classic Samuel L. Jackson. Bitch, please. You've been to to space and i fucking lost my mind like what world do we live in where nick fury is dropping bitch pleases on peter parker oh my god i freaking love the mcu more each and every day we get to see mysterio in action against the elementals and he he's wearing his bubble helmet, his fishbowl helmet. I cannot believe that this works as well as it does, like, in live action.

But the suit looks fucking amazing. The suit looks cool. The powers look interesting. I don't know much about Mysterio. I know, like, the bigger Spider-Man villains, so I don't know a ton about him. I also don't love Jake Gyllenhaal in general. I'm going to give him a shot. Have you seen Nightcrawler?

Did I see Nightcrawler? I don't think so. I liked him in Jarhead. Yeah, you've got to see Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler is like an all-time performance. I have like – I'm not going to lie too. I have some residual animosity towards him because I hated how Maggie Gyllenhaal replaced Katie Holmes, which wasn't either their fault in Dark Knight. Because Dark Knight becomes like a 100 out of 100 if Katie Holmes is. I honestly didn't care if Maggie Gyllenhaal died. Now I'm spoiling.

You're just running the gauntlet and spoiling every movie you can on this podcast. Jesus, Clem. There is a crazy moment in this trailer when Peter Barker says to Mary Jane, I got to talk to you about something. And she just turns around where there's something where you're like that kind of could have been saved for the movie but it could just be misdirection i also love mary jane i i'm a fan of her right off the jump and uh you know back in the last movie and i'm i like the way that they're going with the mary jane character yeah i like this zendaya portrayal it's almost like uh it's gwen stacy like in that uh in the the comics. Gwen Stacy is more reserved. She's kind of more punk rock. And they're kind of giving that to Mary Jane in this franchise, and I love it.

I think you have to kind of do that too because, I mean, Mary Jane kind of fucks with him a little bit. And it's like if you kind of like mix the character up a little bit, you find yourself rooting for them to get together and all that stuff. Yeah, so I'm definitely a fan. And I also have to say the whole thing about like Spider-Man leaving and going there with his obviously his crush and everything. Everyone remembers those like class trips, like the Washington. I don't know. Did you go to Washington DC in eighth grade?

First kiss, Washington DC, eighth grade. Oh, freaking news. Yeah. Yep. Everyone remembers those trips, Glenn. Everyone remembers them. It's like it's it's like everyone's running hot. The fucking hormones are running through your body, trying to get kisses, trying to hold hands. And like the room assignments were the biggest thing. Like if you didn't get with your friends. Oh, yes. Room assignments were huge. And if you got how about this for a story?

My room assignment, I was with four people, four people per room, two big beds, right? We were the only boys' room on the girls' floor making that possible. Wow. It was unbelievable. And we could use our phone to call the girls' room. It was a whole thing. Eighth grade D.C. trips are something. If there's any eighth graders that listen to My Mom's Basement, make sure you fundraise your ass off to get to get to dc at the end of the year because it's a hell of a time we get to see uh we get to

see the noir suit or the stealth suit which i thought was really cool and it works with the idea that maybe spider-man didn't bring his suit and uh something that's crazy is we get to see spider-man try on the glasses that tony stark is wearing in infinity war and kind of have this face like whoa these are a whole lot more than I anticipated them being. He's working on some Stark tech. He says the world needs another Iron Man. I've seen a theory come up a ton online in the last week that Tony Stark, Robert Downey Jr.'s voice may be Spider-Man's AI. And I'm going to say this, I don't love the theory right now. I love the theory down the line. But I think you've got to let Tony Stark's death simmer for a bit and let characters deal with that in the MCU before you give them right to Spider-Man.

I would like if Friday became his AI or something like that or if Tony became his AI a few years down the line. Right now, I think you've got to just let that settle. We're still in a mourning phase. we're still wearing black every single day we're not ready to move on to tony being and fucking his ear right now i'm with you on that it wasn't it that's an interesting theory though i hadn't thought about that yeah yeah for sure and the trailer ends with a great john favreau happy hogan comedic scene where he says he's trying to save a bunch of kids it seems and he's like listen i work with spider-man you got to get on the ship kids, it seems. And he's like, listen, I work with Spider-Man. You got to get on the ship.

It's a new plan. And they're like, wait, you work for Spider-Man? He's like, I do not work for Spider-Man. I work with Spider-Man. I love it. I love the way they end the trailer. I'm so excited for this movie. It comes out, I believe, the week before my birthday.

So maybe it'll be a little birthday celebration. Spider-Man Far From Home. And man, I'm just really excited. I'm really excited about the possibilities of the MCU in a post-Endgame world. Yeah. You know, I think we're all a little like – it's like a nervous excitement about what Marvel is going to do now, now that we're past the Endgame. And it's like – what is it? Phase 5 is technically starting now?

So I think they're saying this is actually phase four and phase five will begin after this. They're saying endgame is not the ending of that phase, which is a little weird, but it's the same way, I guess, Iron Man 3 was the ending of the Avengers phase because they were like, Iron Man 3 is like an epilogue to the first Avengers. And this will be an epilogue to Endgame, I guess. I'm not really sure. That, the phases confuse me. Here's the thing I do know. I need the box set when they eventually put it out

of this entire Infinity Saga. I'll pay whatever you want me to pay for that, Marvel. So just put a price, write it on a napkin. I'll make the wire transfer. It'll happen. Clem, thank you so much

for joining me, giving an update on Operation Terminate Cameron. Keep sending us those tweets. Hashtag Terminate Cameron. We could do this. We could bring this movie past the finish line. I am so confident in that. We can fucking do it. We are inevitable. Coming up next, we've got an awesome chat with Ken Napzock of 4CenterPod and Why We Love Star Wars doing our top five most underrated Star Wars moments. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you, Clem, for joining me. We'll throw it over to

that interview. Welcome back to the show. I am joined by a very special guest now, someone that I've been wanting to collaborate with for a long time, and I'm happy we're finally getting the chance. Ken Napzock, the host of Fort Center Pod with Joseph Scrimshaw and Jennifer Landa, one of my favorite Star Wars podcasts to listen to genuinely. I listen to it all the time. He's also on Collider's Jedi Council. He's on the Schmodown. He's got Motivations with Ken on YouTube, Casterly Talk podcast. Sir, you are all over the internet and you are about to be all over the print book. You have a new book coming out this week on May 15th called Why We Love Star Wars. Ken, how are you? I am so happy to be here, so happy to finally work with you because we've been Twitter friends and then we shook hands and celebrated Star Wars together and now we're talking together and I love it. Absolutely. So you and I first met in person at Star Wars Celebration Chicago and I want to start there because I had the time of my life.

I've said time and time again that Star Wars Celebration is my favorite place on Earth. It's the most positive, loving environment there could possibly be. How is Celebration for you this year? It's the same, and it's great to be reminded, especially great this year. We can't deny the last year and a half has been maybe a tough time in fandom time in fandom maybe last two years a lot of fandoms everywhere are feeling that star wars as well but anaheim in 2015 i didn't go to london in 2016 but orlando 2017 and now chicago 2019 just the best it's the best convention the best fun it's a concentration of star wars fans star wars sweaties is late great john sch great John Schnipp would say, and

gosh, it's just so fun. Yeah, so this was your third celebration? Yeah, my third one, yeah. This was my second. I went to Orlando and I went to this one, and it was amazing to see how much it had grown just since Orlando. It was so much bigger this year than it was then, and it was nice to see, like you said, after the last year and a half, two years of a bit of a split in

fandom, there was a bit of toxicity. Like it's been a little nasty. And I had this a little later for you, a question, but how do you think we as a fan base can rid the rest of the fan base of the toxicness and the way it has been the divisiveness almost? Yeah, it depends. It's so hard. That's a hard answer because it's everywhere. I think the first thing is to make sure that it's, hey, if someone just disagrees with your opinion on The Last Jedi, that's

not them being angry and toxic, but there's levels above that that we can all see, and being smart about that. I choose sometimes not to ignore it. I just stay in my lane man i stay in my line i'm here to celebrate star wars i am the type that goes here's star wars and here's the reasons i love it not here's star wars and here's the reasons it's messed up or wrong or

things they did wrong but i still love it like i i choose to build up um and you just surround yourself with those kind of fans and and i love the discussions and i think that's what gets lost i love to have a discussion on something that you might not like in star wars or my i might not like in star wars don't ever confuse that or just blind hate of something or or some of the other issues attached so i think i think we just like star wars celebration we all just come together for one goal which which is to celebrate Star Wars. I'm with you there. Like even the aspects of Star Wars that maybe I'm not as big a fan of, maybe the prequels.

The prequels for me are very much I grew up with them. I was the perfect age for them. I was born in 1998. And I loved them, loved them, loved them. And I watch them now and I go, those are really bad movies. But you know what? I love them anyway. And I love them despite all their flaws and everything like that. But I never focus on the negative in Star Wars because there's so much positive. The franchise is about hope. It's about great things. And I want to talk about some great

things we got at Celebration, mainly the Rise of Skywalker trailer, which is at this point the greatest trailer I've ever seen, I think. Still, I am so high on this trailer. I'm buying every piece of Rise of Skywalker merchandise that I see, which is very, very little right now. There's only a t-shirt, I believe. But what did you think of the trailer? I know what you thought of the trailer, but I have to ask you anyway on the podcast. No, absolutely, man. Look, I loved it. And JJ makes a great trailer. I think the Force Awakens stuff is amazing and pitch perfect. I love the Last Jedi trailer, too.

But hey, you know, I think Star Wars fans, we love trailers. The Phantom Menace teaser trailer and the Fuling trailer, they're great trailers, too. It just gets you geeked up for the Star Wars that's yet to come. It's new Star Wars. And I loved that trailer. I loved everything about it. I think it gives you a wars that's yet to come it's new star wars and i loved that trailer i loved everything about it i think it uh it gives you a hint of what's to come doesn't answer anything in full uh which is what you want out of a teaser trailer of course gives you some

visuals that are very memorable and and i think i think it shows that jj is ready to tell his own story but also i honor what came before in episode 8. A lot of people don't seem to they don't want to accept that or they're ready for him to quote retcon things and that ain't going to happen. It's the next chapter of the story, but absolutely it's JJ telling his story and that's what I want. So I'm excited and I love that title.

And I love that you said the visuals are amazing and memorable because the actual first half of the trailer is pretty much all one scene it looks like and it's it's ray preparing she's you know she's kind of out of breath and she composes herself and then we see kylo ren i assume it's kylo ren's tie fighter coming in sweeping in and she does that amazing flip over it when that happened i feel like everyone in the room when we first watched that trailer at celebration was on awaiting on bated breath the entire first half of the trailer.

Like, what is going to happen here? What is going on? Is Rey about to be destroyed? What's happening? And then as soon as she did the flip, we all popped like we were at a wrestling event. And it was just for the rest of the trailer, we were like, this is the greatest thing ever. Just holding on to my chair so I didn't fall out of it. And you mentioned the title as well, The Rise of Skywalker.

I've seen a lot of controversy over this, a lot of what could it mean. I am of the belief, like many, that this could mean Skywalker will become the new name for Jedi or Force users leave the past behind. Or, you know, maybe Rey will adopt the name somehow. And I love that idea. What do you think about that? I think a little column A, a little column B, a little column C. It could be everything. And it could even be referring to Kylo Ren, too.

I don't know. That's the lower tier bet I'd make. But I like this idea. We were talking on Force Center. I heard Steele Saunders talking about it too of of uh ray taking the name skywalker uh and that being part of it and i like this kind of emotional meaning of and follow me go into the story if you are the first order luke's gone he did he show up i don't know we didn't we kylo was out there talking to nobody he's gone luke's dead the

anakin skywalker he's dead if you're kylo ren you believe that and you get to go around thumping your chest and bragging and going the skywalkers are dead and i kylo ren helped kill him too because i'm not going back to my blood i'm going to darth vader not anakin and kind of this emotional journey to have all sudden no it's like no the the name the meaning the family the legacy will still be there in some way shape form and and i think that all falls back onto ray and that gets me really you know i'm totally digging into it but but it gets me really excited for what's coming and i love the story that ryan johnson told in the last jedi that ray is nobody i am complete on that side of i i

just love that she is a nobody and it makes the universe feel a little bigger and it dispels that to be special you have to be a part of this special family of force users or whatever and i would love to see her become ray skywalker as an adopted name because we could get both sides of that we could you know we could get ray skywalker that that is who she is as a person and we can get exactly on the same side. She's nobody, and she comes from nothing, but she could still be a Skywalker. I love that idea, and obviously, before we move on, the Emperor is back. It was one of the most shocking reveals, and much like wrestling, I hate to bring up wrestling again, but I'm a massive mark at heart.

You got me here, man. i've worked in wrestling since 2001 let's always bring in wrestling when that when we hear that laugh we hear that ian mcdermott laugh my i i said i malfunctioned i did the reaction video like everybody and and you could see my face i didn't even like react i just malfunctioned completely my i i lit back up as soon as i saw the trip as the title the rise of skywalker which we had been waiting for for months and months and months we finally get it and then the lights come on and ian mcdermott is on stage like the fucking undertaker he says roll it again and then he's off stage by the time the trailer was over it was such an incredible moment i

couldn't even put it into words how do you you think the emperor fits into Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker? I mean, first of all, just to hear you describe it, you tell me that isn't a WrestleMania moment. You tell me that's a WrestleMania moment. Tell me that it isn't. Yeah, I I love the idea. I've always been I've always been open to the possibility. Is it something I thought that I needed 100%? I need Palpatine back? No, no, absolutely did not think that. But now that he's here, or the idea of it, I love it. I still don't know to which degree.

I think there's still, you know, I want to make sure they get the execution right. I trust that they will. I always joke, I keep joking on Force Center with Joseph and Jennifer, like, you know, we don't want the Emperor to pop out all like, I'm still here, I'm a clone! Like, however they do it. And again, they could make him a clone and it worked. It's all about the how, now that we know

the what. I do like the idea of Sith hauntings, his spirit being in the second Death Star. I always kind of took it as a kid, when he dies and kind of explodes, It's kind of the spirit kind of destruction. It's something weird. His spirit flows out of him and the embodiment

of evil. I was seven kind of scared of that. Like, why did he blow up like a ghost? It was really weird. So I still love that idea. I think you could see Rey and Kylo trying to get to him or get to whatever's there. Maybe Palpatine's the MacGuffin in a weird way. So I don't know quite how they're going to do it. But that's one of the things I love about episode

eight is I can't really predict nine. There's no set formula and everything's kind of wide open to me. And I'm all on board for that. I'm so with you there. I love the idea maybe that he was haunting not only the second Death Star, but Darth Vader's helmet in some way and kind of concocting Kylo to think that Darth Vader was leading him in that way because it wouldn't make sense for Anakin Skywalker to be speaking with Kylo and trying to, I will finish what you started, Grandfather. And I also love the idea of maybe taking that line, I will finish what you started, Grandfather, and having Kylo Ren somehow destroy the Emperor once and for all, and that being what he's finishing, what Darth Vader

started. Another thing we saw at Celebration that I really loved to see just every aspect of was the Mandalorian panel, with Jon Favreau, Dave Filoni, people that love Star Wars, people that are as passionate about this thing as you and I are. That's my favorite thing about this franchise is even in the episode nine panel, you could see everyone on that stage cared as much as we did, like and very genuinely in their hearts want to give us the best product possible. Now, let's get into why you love Star Wars. Where did it begin for you? It began, well, it began back in 77. I was one years of age watching it drive in. I don't remember it.

I always joke that it just kind of filtered into my brain from there. But 83, the trailer, and I kind of write about a little more detail in the book, but the trailer for Return of the Jedi, it was Return, it wasn't revenge it was really close to the release um and uh i was with my friends at a slumber party and everyone just kind of leaned forward like what what's this and i had been aware of it uh i knew star wars but

i i i thought star wars and battle star galactica the original show were the same thing you know i'm six seven i don't really know what's going on and i just remember lean forward and the image there was a quick quick image of luke skywalker uh holding that lightsaber on top of the katana and i was like okay there's something about this and i and we saw it uh opening night at a theater fremont theater in san luis bispo cal California, and that just never stopped. And how has your fandom evolved since then? Like, we're talking original trilogy, you're a kid, and you're fascinated with the idea, you don't really know what it is. By the time the prequels roll around, what is your fandom like then? The fandom's gearing up.

It's weird that, you know, you kind of go into the late 80s, early 90s, especially with my age, you know, that's when I'm playing baseball and collecting baseball cards and getting into pro wrestling, and Robotech was a big thing. Star Wars was one of many things that I loved, but it was one of many things, and you kind of, especially back then, you kind of felt, well, I guess at some point I have to put this on the shelf, right? I got to put my Star Wars toys away. That's changed, thankfully.

Everything in moderation. I have too many Funko Pops. But it started to grow, and then the Air of the Empire trilogy, Timothy Zahn, kind of brought it back. And then the prequels, by the mid-'90s, I'm in film school. I'm going to college. I'm starting my radio career, all these things. And in the background, there was these whispers, oh, George is going to do it. Because, obviously, the movie news industry was a lot different then. We didn't have YouTube and podcasts and all that stuff to really get you all the information.

And I was excited. And Phantom Menace and the prequels overall, it's been a journey. And that's my honest way to say it. I was really happy with them. And then, like, oh, no, definitely not. And then all my friends hated them and i guess i hated them too and wow i was disappointed and then but i kept coming back and i kept watching and then about 2006 after sith has you know been out of the theaters for

a year and i've got the dvd copies i found myself hey it's saturday i'm just at home i want to put on a star wars movie and i'd look around and make sure no one was watching and I'd go I'm gonna put in one of the prequels and then I started to find out like oh there's things in there I love are there things in there that are absolutely silly and executed poorly yep still to this day I see that um but it's Star Wars and it's the story and my fandom's kind of wrapped up then I meet Joseph Scrimshaw and he's like nah here's why I love the prequels and I'm like yep i'm on board with this and we start talking about it and there's a lot of things to dig into and so it's been a journey but my star wars fandom has just uh grown and grown it's i'm not sick of it yet this is my

job i write a book about i talk six hours a week about it uh when i i still on the weekend i put in solo and watched it again i just just love it. I'm with you. Anyone that ever comes up to me and wants to talk about anything with me, as soon as they bring up Star Wars, people joke. People that meet me on the street in New York, they joke because someone will bring up Star Wars on my walk home and I'll stand on the sidewalk with them for 15 minutes talking about it, debating with it. My favorite thing about Star Wars is the fandom, speculating with fans and talking about what we think is going to happen, what we thought about what happened. So by the time the sequel trilogy comes around, that was – this is in a weird way like it feels like it's my Star Wars trilogy because being born in 98, the prequels were awesome. But the only one I had seen in theaters was Revenge of the Sith and the other ones I watched incessantly on VHS and my family is so tired of The Phantom Menace by now because I just loved Qui-Gon as a kid and watched it over and over and over again. What was your fandom like when Disney acquires Lucasfilm and announces, hey, there's going to be three more and there might be more than three more?

We've had five since then. It's so crazy to think that. But where were you when Disney bought Lucasfilm? Because I remember where I was. It's so funny. I remember exactly where I was. I was at my day job at the time that I no longer have. I was one of the security directors at a big mall in Los Angeles.

And I was in my office. And I saw tweets from, I think, Christian or Mark Ellis. We were doing the Schmoes Know stuff back then. And I went online and saw it. And I remember exactly where I was because I couldn't fathom this. Could not fathom this. They're going to make more movies?

I'm going to get more Star Wars? And I was shaking with excitement. And I still think if you were to take these movies and just hit a time capsule and show me when I was seven, 10, 14, you're going to get this later on. I'd be like, no way. Come on, that looks too amazing. We can't get this. And so I'm still very excited about that. Now, what we're going to get into, which is going to be a lot of fun, I think, is we're going to do our top five most underrated Star Wars moments from the entire saga.

Everything there is to talk about Star Wars. We've compiled our individual top fives. I'll do my five, you'll do your five. We'll go back and forth like that until we get to our number one. It was so hard compiling this list, and I had the idea for it, and I was beating myself up later for it, because I was like, why did I do this? I can't come up with a list of underrated moments. There's no underrated moments in Star Wars. They're all great. Let's start with your number five most underrated moment. Yeah, my list has already changed, I think, three times since I woke up this morning. But my number five, I'm going to go to episode two, Attack of the Clones. That's right. One of my favorite scenes, and I think it's getting more attention now, and I did write about it in the book.

This is a tease in a way, but I'm going with Count Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Obi-Wan's captured. And that great conversation that Dooku and Obi-Wan have where Dooku kind of spills all the beans, tells Obi-Wan the truth. Nope. The Senate's under control of a Sith Lord. The Trade Federation's in league with this Sith Lord, he just puts it all out there and is like, join me and we'll destroy the Sith, even though he is Sith. And there's some truths, there's some lies, there's a lot of it. And Dooku is a really fascinating character to me. And it throws a lot of things back into Obi-Wan's face that he believes in, that he trusts, that he knows too about Qui-Gon. And when Dooku brings in and invokes the name of Qui-Gon Jinn, basically says, I think you would have joined me.

I don't necessarily know if that's true or not. I don't know if I believe that as a fan. But in that moment, Obi-Wan's got to be like, no, he would never join you. But in the back of his head, like, I don't know. He always did fight the council. He always did do his own thing. He always was against corporation. Oh, man, I don't know. And I just love the scene. There always did do his own thing. He always was against corporations.

Oh, man, I don't know. And I just love the scene. There's a lot of layers to there. It's one of Christopher Lee's finest moments in Star Wars. And it's such great to have Christopher Lee doing it. And Dooku himself is an underrated character. That's why I like this scene. I think that's a great one.

In a movie full of subpar acting, we'll say, that is a phenomenally acted scene. Ewan McGregor and Christopher Lee, like you said, are so good. There's so many layers, like you said, and it's the good side of Star Wars politics for me where I love seeing that unfold. And it actually ties in well with my number five moment, talking about Qui- guan being a bit of a showing signs of gray jedi at times mine comes from the phantom menace and it is guai guan's gamble for anakin's freedom when wado rolls the die and uh there's there's three sides that are blue and three sides that are red and one is anakin's mother's freedom and one is anakin's freedom and it goes to land on anakin's mother's freedom he uses the force just to change it a little bit.

And that always stuck with me as like, all right, Qui-Gon's going to bend the rules a little bit as a Jedi. And that's part of the reason I love him so much. That is my number five moment. That's a great moment. Have you had a chance to read Master and Apprentice yet by Claudia Gray? I have not. But I am a big fan of Claudia Gray. And I'm very excited for that because I heard it is fantastic.

You need to dig into it because I'm not quite done. I'm a few chapters away from finishing. Great Dooku stuff in there. Great Qui-Gon stuff. But that makes sense. There's a lot of stuff in that book that ties, I think, back to that moment. That's a great choice of you because Qui-Gon is going to make a decision. He's going to make a decision.

Let's just say that. He's going to make a decision, not leave it to the Force. He's going to use his powers to do something and make that choice. Even though I always joke, we used to joke on the Jedi Alliance days, me and Mont Garrett, that there's some heat between Shmi and Qui-Gon. He knows that that isn't her journey and that he believes the prophecy of the Chosen One. And in that moment, he makes a decision. I think that's a great of the chosen one and in that moment he makes a decision i think that's a great powerful moment i love that moment what is your number four most underrated star wars moment ken all right this is i this this was tough uh you know it's like

go to the definition of underrated was what is it is it just uh uh you know is it yeah you didn't watch it enough or there's some meanings you missed or all the above. So my number four, going to Rogue One. And I think a lot of people do like this scene, but there's a lot of layers have been added since the movie came out. And that is when Jyn Erso sees the hologram of her father, Galen Erso, when she's talking to Saw Gerrera moments before the Death Star destroys Jedha City. It is one of my favorite moments, and it has grown for me. It has grown for me since the movie first came out because of some of the supplemental material.

Now, a lot of people counter like, hey, you know the movie should explain all this on its own. I totally understand that. But if you read Rebel Rising by Beth Revis, if you read the Rogue One novelization by Alexander Freed, you get a little little bit more with jinn's character so going back to this rogue one moment felicity jones gives us all her emotions it's a journey she's crying but jinn isn't just going ah there's my dad jinn is realizing her dad's still alive he didn't run away from her like she thought he isn't part of the empire like she thought. He's part of a rebellion, a rebellion she doesn't want to be a part of because it's hurt her.

Forrest Whitaker's Saw Gerrera character is part of that hurt. If you read one of the novels, her first love was killed in a crossfire-friendly fire type event with the rebels. She's been asked to do horrible things as a partisan when she was young. That's part of the reason Saw finally left her when she was 16. And all that in story. And as a Star Wars fan, I love to take everything and put it into that moment. And it just it broke me year a year after the movie came out. It broke me more then than it did when I watched it the first time. And that's why I think I would love everyone to go back and take another look. That is such a good scene. And you and I might be force linked in some way because my number four moment also comes from Rogue One.

Rogue One is a movie that I feel like I almost, like you just said, love more and more every time I watch it. I'm such a fan of Rogue One, especially that third act, obviously. And my moment comes from that third act where it's another, where do we rank underrated? And my definition was just like, listen, there weren't enough people talking about this. So I'm going to bring it up. The Hammerhead Corvette crashing into a Star Destroyer, pushing one Star Destroyer into the other. And this is one of the coolest visuals I've ever seen in all of Star Wars. Two Star Destroyers crashing into each other to destroy Scarif's entire, you know, sort of outer defense system. And this was the definitive moment for me

where I said Star Wars is going to be okay without John Williams because the score here is so fantastic that I was like, okay, other people can be at the helm of this and really do it well. And the CGI, it looked so real. It looked like they did it with practical effects somehow. I know they didn't, but it just reminded me so much of the original trilogy in a moment where I never even imagined it happening and then got to see it right in front of my face. I'm applauding your decision, sir. I'm applauding your decision sir i'm applauding your decision we are connected indeed and for those listening yeah we didn't really go over this before here uh i i loved uh i love that moment i love admiratus paul casey's in the costume steven stanton does the voice

i love everything about call up or have a head call that i have an idea. So great. And that third act of Rogue One is some of the best Star Wars that ever Star Warsed. I always joke about. And part of the reason is just because going back to the playground, when you thought about fighting in space wars and all those kind of things, in Rogue One, we see some of the things I think a lot of us probably acted out with toys or acted out on the playground with our friends. And that has a lot of value as a Star Wars fan. And I think that's a big moment. I love it. A hundred percent. What is your number three moment?

My number three moment. All right. We're going back to the prequels, but we're going to episode one. And this has become one of my favorite moments in Star Wars. And it's small and it's subtle. And you kind of have to dig in as a fan, which is what I love. And I'm going to episode one when Padme, actually at the time, and it's subtle, and you kind of have to dig in as a fan, which is what I love. And I'm going to episode one when Padme, actually at the time

Queen Amidala's, you know, we were calling her then, she decides to go back to Naboo, leave Coruscant, tells Senator Palpatine, politics are your arena, Senator, I'm going to go back, and I'm going to go be with my people, that's what we need to do.

Palpatine is the fan of menace, right? He's the one at the center of this all. And in nine, he might be coming back to wrap it all up. He's always in control. If he's not in control, he's always trying to get one step ahead and think of different options. He is he is he is the great evil. And this is the one moment where Padme kind of throws him for a loop because he says early on, Senator Amidala is young and naive. You'll find controlling her to be very easy, not a problem. And he thinks that. And in that moment, she makes a decision that he couldn't control. Now he immediately flips it. He's immediately like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Go back because, yeah, I'll have

some things working. You know, he's great like that. And it sets Padme up as a rival in a way for Palpatine. He knows she's a threat. She's a threat. And even though he wants Anakin to fall in love with her or be attached and have all that problems, she she's a wild card. And if you go to the Clone Wars cartoon, there's a lot of the Mina Bonteri arc. There's a great scene where at the end of the episode, Palpatine's just kind of looking out. He's in his office looking out, kind of like, Padme, man. She does things all the time. I have trouble predicting. And it sets up this weird Padme-Palpatine rivalry, and he has to have her removed some way, shape, or form and dig his claws into Anakin even more. And I think it all starts back at that. Man, I think you just made me love that moment more than I ever did. That was a

moment that I definitely never took much note of until just now. Yeah, look at Palpatine's face. McDiarmid plays it so well. And again, I want to be clear because some people won't count. They're like, ah, he foresees things. Yeah, the Emperor foresees things, but he also doesn't foresee everything. Just go back to that moment in Return of the Jedi where he didn't foresee probably being thrown down a shaft.

There's a look on his face, a flash of like, wait, what? And I love that moment. And it's a great, powerful moment for Padme. It really is. And Padme is such a great character that is one of the more underrated aspects of the prequels in general in my book. My number three moment comes from Return of the Jedi. And this is a moment that I ran past every Star Wars fan that I know of because I said, is this an underrated moment? Because for me, it really isn't. It's always been one of my favorite scenes in the entire saga, especially in the original trilogy. And they all said, I think it is an underrated moment, actually. And that comes with Leia's rescue of Han in Return of the Jedi when she goes in under disguise, releases him from the Carbonite. And he

says, you know, who are you? And she says, know who are you and she says someone who loves you as she takes the as she takes the mask off and he's still blinded but he hears her voice i love this this is such a great carrie fisher moment it's such it's just so phenomenally acted and it's full of feelings and emotion and this reunion after three years han's been in carbonite and the last time we saw these heroes together, they were in real bad shape. So this is my number three moment. I don't know if it necessarily is underrated, but it's underrated to me because of how much I love it. No, no, I'm going to say, I'm going to say it's definitely underrated because in the original trilogy, every scene

is picked apart. Every scene's been around for 40 plus years and we get to dig on in here. And I love that. But you can forget some of the impact of the moments uh and what that means uh we know leia is a self-rescuing princess uh self-rescuing princess i should say she you know is part of her own rescue and new hope she needs them but she you know into the garbage chute garbage chute flyboy all that stuff but i think it's overlooked the moment in jedi not just that she's coming back to save han but but just the good hero moment for her. Take that mask off. Someone who loves you.

Like, that's a great moment, and I think it is underrated. Going into our top two most underrated moments, what is your number two? Oh, this is, it got tough. It got tough, and I really thought to myself, let me look at the original trilogy. Because like I just said, I've seen every frame so many times. I know. The original trilogy I thought was the hardest to find underrated moments for because of how much over the years we've all depicted it apart and analyzed every frame and been like, yes, every scene of this is phenomenal and a 10 out of 10. So it's like how could anything be underrated there?

It's tough because, again, yeah, we just are so familiar. And it's obviously a testament to the quality of them. But, I mean, yeah, again, we're just so familiar. We almost forget stuff. So my number two, I went to – it's funny. It's similar to what you're saying with the Leia Han moment in Jabba's Palace. But I'm going with Obi-Wan and Luke's conversation on Dagobah. The reason I'm – and it's a big conversation. But the reason I'm going with it, when you think of Luke and you think's conversation on Dagobah. Wow. The reason I'm going, and it's a big conversation, but the reason I'm going with it, when you think of Luke

and you think of Luke on Dagobah, you go to Yoda, naturally. You go to Yoda training him. You go to the cave at Empire. In Jedi, you might go to just Yoda's death, which was touching and sad. And my sister, my younger sister, had to be removed from the theater crying, Yoda, Yoda, Yoda died. But I think it's important, the conversation that Obi-Wan and Luke have,

and everyone will joke about, oh, he's a Force ghost, he's sitting. How does a ghost sit? We've since learned a lot more about what Force ghosts mean in canon. It's Obi-Wan telling the truth from his certain point of view, which fuels a lot of stories now. The character of Obi-Wan is this, what do they say on Clone Wars? Duchess Satine introduces him as a collection of hyperbole and half-truths that is Obi-Wan Kenobi.

It sets up that character, and it's powerful for Luke, and it also hurts Luke in a way. And I always want to know, did Luke recover from that? I think he did, but he lied to me. He lied to me about this thing and maybe he grows and learns why obi-wan had and yoda had to protect him a bit about it maybe you know maybe that fuels into some of his decisions that come later on and i just think it's one of those moments that a lot of roads lead back to and that's why i think uh even i want to study it again and then in the novelization uh james khan wrote 1983 it's one of my favorite chapters of uh of that of that book

because a lot of a lot of revelations that 1983 were big like they vader vader and obi-wan fought on a lava planet but and then and we were waiting for that for years so i love that that's so awesome that that was the first time we ever heard about mustafar actually maybe not the first time because i think george might have mentioned it to a newspaper at some point that they had some kind of big volcanic battle. But the first time, I guess it was canon and in the Star Wars universe and the novelization of that book. Great scene, great scene in that movie. My number two moment comes from The Last Jedi, a movie that I hold near and dear to my heart and it is Rey's training montage with her lightsaber against the rock and Luke is overlooking

her and there are so many fantastic shots in this but my reason it is an underrated moment my number two underrated moment is because months after The Last Jedi came out and there was already the divisiveness there were the people picking it apart I saw a tweet comparing Rey's lightsaber

montage with Kylo Ren's last stand Luke on Crate. And you really, really get to see the brilliance behind Rian Johnson during this comparison because everything Ray is doing to that rock is what Kylo Ren does to Luke later on. They are so linked that they are pulling off the exact same moves. And it is next level genius from Rian Johnson, in my opinion. I'll post the links to, you know, all on my Twitter to the comparison videos. But it is mind blowing when you see how much thought went into this and the connection between Rey and Kylo Ren, which was, in my opinion, probably the best part of that movie in general. Yeah, wow. Great moment, too. And it shows, yeah, it's funny that there seemed to be a lot of thought in this movie.

Yes. Yeah, it's great. It's one of those things that I've seen the videos, too. And it's like even if Ryan didn't, you know, because sometimes we dig in so much and then a director comes out and goes, oh, we just didn't do that because of special effects, the budget or something like that. You know, even if he even if he was to come out and be like, oh, good, I didn't see that. And I don't know, maybe he did. You can't you can't ignore it. You can't ignore it because it's it is what it is, what's there. And I love digging into those kind of layers. And it's a great sequence, too.

It's powerful for Luke. I think that's one of the moments where he's just like, all right, secretly kind of like, there's something going on here, and I got to get on board or not or figure out how to do it. And it's just – it's great. And I even love that it ends with a bit of comedy. That's my favorite comedic moment in the entire movie actually when she slashes the rock in half. The rock falls on the – we call them the fish people here, me and my boy Clem. We just love these little fish people, the Sicilian fish ladies, we say. When that falls and they look up just like, what the fuck? Like, this bitch is just, she came to our island. She's destroying all our stuff.

She's shooting us. What's going on? It is an awesome moment. Every single slash and poke is replicated in that final scene on Crate, which is one of my all-time favorite Star Wars moments. Ken, what is your number one, your most underrated Star Wars moment? All right, well, we're going to The Force Awakens, Episode 7. I am going to what I call the dual interrogation scene, and that is Kylo Ren and Rey after she is captured on Takodana taken back to uh you know

what is it the finalizer there uh or is she on start yeah she is on star killer base excuse me um and that's where kylo reveals himself takes his mask off and and yep you know he's got wavy flowery hair and that kind of a lot of people giggled at that and maybe get lost in that moment it is again one of those all roads go back to this moment type of thing. It is where Rey connects to something she's always had, not fully understood. It is Kylo getting into her mind invasively against her will. It's an evil moment for Kylo. And then she fights back and she finds the power, which is great symbolism of like, oh, wait, I might have more power than I know, and fights back and she finds the power which is great symbolism of like oh wait i might have more power than i know um and fights back but the the real thing about her fighting back and being like

oh i see what i see you have fear uh you you fear never going to be good as darth vader that's a powerful moment but what's there's two things that have happened kylo's suffered his first defeat he has started the scene with the mask on and i'm this big oh and he's company takes the mask off and look at me oh i'm in control here she fights back he knows that she knows the truth about him now that he's unstable and he has fear and he's not sure and he's not confident and that scares him and then and then it shows to me that they are both in a galaxy where they're both alone. They are both alone.

They are now intimately connected. The Force connection doesn't necessarily start there like literally like Snoke's Force connection. But I think emotionally they are connected. And in this galaxy where they're on their own journeys, Ryan talks about them kind of being co-protagonists. They're on their own journeys. They know there's only one other person in the galaxy that knows them as well as themselves, and it is Rey, and it is Kylo or Ben,

and she wishes he picked up that name. And I think it all goes back. It's a beautiful moment, and it was actually just outside of my top five. I had that whole sequence in because when Kylo first arrives on Takodana and his theme is blaring in the destruction and you see his ship kind of come around the corner, that's one of my favorite moments because it's like, oh man, this guy's a big bad villain and he's here to stay. Such a beautiful moment between Kylo and Rey.

And I love that Adam Driver gets to act and we get to see his facial reactions in that moment because it's almost necessary for that scene if you can do it with darth vader obviously you could never do something like that until the end of return of the jedi but the fact that they were able to do it and the fact that they took his mask off for the majority of the last jedi i think was also a brilliant move i love that we're bringing it back for the rise of skywalker get to see you know maybe the less human side of of kylo ren for a bit and get back to that destructive side my number one comes from Empire Strikes Back and this is a moment that I've been talking about as the most underrated moment Star Wars for years Ken this was the actually the reason why I thought let's do the top five most underrated moments because I want to talk about this moment every chance I can. It comes in the middle of the Cloud City sabotage

when Lando invites our heroes to go get a bite to eat with him, get a drink, and the door opens and Darth Vader is standing behind that door. My most underrated moment comes because Han Solo does not miss a beat and he fires that DL-44 blaster at Darth Vader multiple times. He steps in front of Leia, he holds her hand, and he just starts firing from the hip. And that moment for me is one of the coolest moments not only in Star Wars, not only in The Empire Strikes Back, but in any movie ever. Because Han Solo has no fear of Darth Vader, and the second he saw him, he started firing away. I love this moment so fucking much, Ken.

It is my number one most underrated Star Wars moment. That's a great choice. It's a great choice. Han's my guy. Lando's one of my favorite characters. I think he's wonderfully complicated. By the way, I love Billy Dee Williams at Episode IX panel standing up and speaking for Lando and saying, no, I'm kind of doing what I got to do. I'm a survivor. I love that. It was amazing.

It was amazing. Well, like getting to see him live the gimmick. He was like, I'm tired of people saying I sabotaged Han. Yeah. What would you do, man? So I love that moment. And it is Han's character in a nutshell. He is going to he's a good guy who's going to stand up against evil when he sees it, whether or not he's fully on board. He's still part of his journey, and he's going to protect those that he loves and cares about more than anything, and as Han always does.

He doesn't have a plan. He reacts. He thinks first, and often it works out, and sometimes, as in this case, he doesn't have a plan. He reacts. He thinks first. And often it works out. And sometimes, as in this case, it doesn't. And that is Han being Han. Absolutely. Ken, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of My Mom's Basement.

Ken's book, Why We Love Star Wars, will be available on May 15th pretty much everywhere books are sold, I would assume. It's on Amazon. I know that. You could preorder it right now on Amazon. I cannot wait to read this book. Genuinely cannot wait to read this book. And if you are a fan of Star Wars, if you love Star Wars as much as me, as much as Ken, I promise you, you will be a fan of the Force Center pod with Ken, Joseph Scrimshaw, and Jennifer Landa. They have so many different episodes, so many different just concepts on how to cover Star Wars. Even Joseph Scrimshaw has one of my favorite features where he does Star Wars counseling, and he takes moments that are highly debated among fans or highly controversial among fans.

And he sits down at the glass of scotch and he explains why they're great. It's just such a positive fan podcast for fans by the fans. I love it. I listen to it before bed most nights ken thank you for joining me it's been a pleasure been absolutely you got to get joseph on too you can share scotch it's been a pleasure thank you so much i love we have positive star wars fans like you out and about and uh helping uh helping the good fight celebrating star wars absolutely make sure you go get why we love star wars as soon as it's available on May 15th. I promise it'll be a well-written book. You heard the man talk about Star Wars. You know how much that man loves Star Wars.