My Mom's Basement - EPISODE 90 - THE YOUNG BUCKS

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Matt and Nick Jackson - The Young Bucks - join the From The Top Rope boys to discuss their new book, 'Killing the Business: From Backyards To The Big Leagues', Robbie's history of designing gear for them, finding the balance of being executives and talent in AEW, and more. Buy 'Young Bucks - Killing the Business: From Backyards To The Big Leagues' - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062937839?pf_rd_r=R821W0XSDV7Z04F85RFR&pf_rd_p=edaba0ee-c2fe-4124-9f5d-b31d6b1bfbee 3Chi: Use code ROBBIE at checkout to receive 5% off at 3Chi.comYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey My Mom's Basement listeners, you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. I haven't talked to these guys in over three years, and honestly, before that, I hadn't talked to them in even longer. So it was really cool to actually get a half an hour sit-down with them, Jared Karabas, of course. I mean, we could have done three hours with these guys. Before we get into that interview, let me remind you guys about our presenting sponsor, as I do each and every week. It is 3Chi and their Delta-8 THC. What is Delta-8 THC? It is a federally legal version of THC. It is formulated by a biochemist in the United States from USA-grown hemp. This is amazing stuff, and its effects are a perfect hybrid

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welcome back to my mama's basement and a very special from the top rope edition of my mama's basement. I am catching up with, I'll come right out and say it, my favorite tag team of all time right now. Matt and Nick Jackson, the Young Bucks. They've got a new book out now, Killing the Business from Backyards to the Big Leagues. I just want to start off by congratulating both of you on all the success since we've last talked. It's been awesome to watch. And actually, the last time we spoke was July of 2017. And the big thing in your world was that the Hot Topic deal had just happened. And your merch was being sold in Hot Topic.

And that felt like the biggest deal in the world. And I couldn't even dream up what you guys have made now with AEW and all that. So congratulations. It's been a real pleasure to watch since then. Thanks, man. That's crazy to think that was just three years ago because in the last three years it's been such a whirlwind and a roller coaster of like accomplishments i guess you could say that we've all had in the wrestling business so man that's insane and And to hear that were your favorite tags, that surprised me a bit.

I feel like you guys solidified it recently. When did we start talking the first time? When did we first meet? It was an ROH or something? Yeah, it was ROH. It had to be like War of the Worlds, the first War of the Worlds at Hammerstein, I think, when you guys were against Red Dragon. Oh, wow. And they had Felfie Tom Wall, when you guys were against Red Dragon. Oh, wow.

How old were you? I think I was 15, but I told you guys I was like 17. I told everyone I was 17 because I was like, it'd be weird if I was a 15-year-old hanging out with the boys. Okay, so that was in 2015, maybe? I think earlier. I think that was

2013. That's funny because I did the same thing when I was that young. 2013. That's funny because you know what? I did the same thing when I was that young. I would say, yeah, you know what? I'm 18. I could wrestle. Yeah. I even went into training when I was like 16, just telling them I was like 18. But I hated training and I was like, screw that. I'm going to stay on this side of the barricade. Let the Bucks do that. Then you started, you designed some of our famous gear for us that people probably don't realize yeah the uh faces all over faces was i remember seeing like uh someone did you do the melzer pants yeah yeah the melzer ones at the tokyo dome the super kick all over that was like

those are my favorite tights i ever designed because they're the most obnoxious and ridiculous they catch your eye right away those are some of my favorites away yeah yeah yeah yeah i i oftentimes like dana my wife who runs the merch she's like what's your next set of gear you want to do for your action figure i was like i don't know maybe we should bring back the faces oh that would be that would be my favorite thing in the world if you guys made figures out of that or fun or something um let's talk about the book when did you guys start writing this? How did this come about? God, it was about two years ago when they first approached us and they asked me to start getting an idea for how we want to structure the thing. So I remember recently looking back at emails and I'm like, oh my God, I started structuring the book two years ago. I started

writing it. I figured, I was was like you know what i'm gonna it's late at night i'm gonna give chapter one you know i'm gonna give it a try right now and i just kept writing and writing i remember i like i stayed up almost all night writing on my and it was all my iphone and uh i was like i think i'm on to something here you know this is pretty good uh i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna knock this book out so fast this is gonna good. I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna knock this book out so fast. This is going to be nothing. And then like two years later, like, like I barely finished it, but, it's just one of those things where like you write and then you have to revise and then rewrite again. And then, and then I go to Nick and I go, okay,

I got us to ages, you know, I got us to age nine and 10. Now I need you to take over this era. And then we have to get with our parents and fact check stories. I had to blow off the dust on old photo albums to search for those. Like it was so much work. Like I told Nick that it felt like I was back at school and I was trying to like do an entire year of school, uh, like in a couple of weeks, like you're just trying to rush and get this thing done. But at the same time you're're trying to get it done right.

And you want the stories to be accurate. And, and then once we got to the wrestling stuff, it was like, Oh my God, now this stuff really has to be, uh, this has to be fact checked 10 times over.

Cause people just Google it all, you know? So it was really grueling in a way, but at the same time, it was so fun to, to reminisce and go back and and put your mind back in those times um i got to kind of relive really painful moments in my life too which was really jarring for me mentally like i remembered like at moments i'd have tears in my

eyes because i was like nine again experiencing the loss of my grandpa or like, you know, being a broke kid at 22 or however old I was when we were at the TNA. Like it was, it was one of those things, man, where like you, like you put yourself on this rollercoaster of emotions, but then at the end I knew what the ending was. I always knew that was going to be the end of our first book. So getting to that ending, it felt really good. Cause like, it's okay. There's a lot of bad stuff in this book, but I know the ending is good because I lived it. You have to almost remind yourself that though, you know what I mean? But I had a great time doing it. Nick had a great time doing it. We kind of tagged in and out in

between chapters, uh, which is perfect because that's what we do for a living. So writing the book as a team, it, it, it was, it a team, it was pretty easy in that sense because we were always on the same page. Yeah. So I had a similar process. I wrote a book that kind of covered the same thing that you guys did where it's like, here's where I started and how I got to where I am. How much did you guys struggle with like, well, maybe this isn't the ending? Because you guys still have a lot of things that you isn't the ending. Cause like you guys, you guys still have a lot of things that you'd like to accomplish. Like that was the main thing that I struggle with. And I finished my book 10 years ago. I already want to like rip up the first one,

write it over again, then continue past where it ended. I'm sure you guys will have the same thing because there's so much more that you guys can accomplish. And trust me, you will have that moment where it's like, you know, the idea of writing a book, it's awesome and everything, but like our story is so much more than what's in that book. So like how much did you struggle with we need to find an ending? Like we have the bulk of it, but like where is the ending? Is this a good enough ending for the reader? You know what?

It's funny. We could have easily wrote a little bit more about all elite wrestling but i feel like the the ending is a great cliffhanger uh to maybe do a second book so i think we were okay with that and having that in mind thinking maybe we will do one again eventually so i think that was probably the perfect ending to uh with how we did end it so i don't think it was too hard on our part just because knowing hey there there's always a possibility of another one yeah i think i think that if we do another one it would be all about our experience at aew which i can already truthfully write an entire book about because

this has been the most wild time of my life and i think maybe that happens when we're done here because that would have to be like a tell-all like like just right like we're at a point in our in our career to here where it's like we can't do that yet like we're still working as executives for this company with other executives it's like you can't be 1000% honest with what is going on here and the stories that you know until you finally like leave because i think there's also like a bias too at times like i think i have to be so far removed from something to be able to write about it like i knew that our time in japan was was complete i knew our time at roh was complete so it was okay to write about

this stuff i'm still kind of living in the thick of what we're currently doing uh so i didn't really want to give away i didn't want to get too much into the weeds of aew but yeah i i think i think there's definitely the possibility of a another book way down the line like you said maybe you know 10 years from now or whatever and it could probably be all about aew that would be great and you know the title of this book is from the backyards to the big leagues. You guys are very much in the big, big leagues. Now look at what AEW has accomplished over just the last year, even just in the big leagues, which is crazy. Even just in 2020, like the stuff that you guys have done since the shutdown is kind of crazy. Does it feel like

you're in the big leagues though? Because you're still doing it your own way. You're still doing it in a sort of independent way where you guys are in charge. You guys are, like you're in the big leagues though? Because you're still doing it your own way. You're still doing it in a sort of independent way where you guys are in charge. You guys are, like you said, the executives in it all. Are you like looking back at your time on the Indies and Japan, ROH, is that like, are you getting nostalgic about that because you're like, we're in the big leagues now, or does it kind of feel like one smooth transition?

Yeah. You know what? It does feel like a smooth transition in a weird way uh obviously being on national television every week is a lot different from the uh the tv that we did with ring of honor or or a new japan you know uh but man it's it's so bizarre uh it still feels real weird like i tell Matt this all the time, we still have to pinch ourselves before we go live every week. And you know, it's been a struggle too at the same time dealing with the COVID stuff.

So it's almost been too intense to even like think about because we're so in the middle of it. And it's, it's almost too hard to explain how we feel like like matt said we we might have to uh eventually write about it when we're out of this because it's so much to take in i uh i feel nostalgic all the time and i look back all the time especially with the book obviously because time, especially with the book, obviously, because I just had to relive all of this in, in, in now, you know, I look back and I go, God, I wish I would have appreciated some of the, you know,

the struggles a little bit more back then, but it's, it's, you could say all that in hindsight, because now I knew that I make it out. Okay. And there's a happy ending. At the time I didn't know if there was going to a happy ending so it's really hard and when you're living in that in that little world you know you have problems of your own and now I have like it's not not that I don't have problems now my problems are even bigger problems now yeah you know what I mean like you you think that entire time you're struggling though you're like when I get to this point when I make it to the big leagues and I make the big money, then I'll be great and everything's going to be perfect. And that's so not true because, you know, it was a happy ending.

But at the same time, like now we just, like I just said, we just have bigger problems now. I wish that I would have appreciated the journey a little bit more, being packed in cars with 12 guys for 10 hours and making it, you know, a hot dog and a handshake. And, and like, I wish I can go back and tell myself, Hey, everything's gonna be okay. This time you're, you're living this time for a reason because you're, you're learning the value of money and you're, this is experience.

And like, I value that time now. And I look back at my times in Reseda when it was 120 degrees in that little dump of room. And we were building ourselves as characters, as human beings, and we were building ourselves into superstars. And we didn't realize it, you know. Like we were just trying to make 50 bucks from Super Dragon. But we didn't realize like that's where we were really doing the work and now now we're getting paid and we're benefiting from all those nights we struggled on the independence and and that's really where we cut our teeth and that's that's where we we did the grind and i do

miss those days and it's sad to me knowing now that it'll never go back to that like i do have a hard time dealing with that like that part of my life is over and I'm never getting it back. You know? And it's like, it's like when you have a kid and you look at old pictures from time hop and you're like, Oh my God, my kids are never going to be that little again. It's kind of depressing. You know what I mean? But it's, you know, like I would never take it back. Like the stuff we did, the times we had, it was the most fun I've ever had. Out of those times what are the ones that you look back on as the big peaks like when i asked that question what comes to mind right away is like on the independence and stuff yeah and that was the best our uh probably

early on was our pwg run where we initially turned heel yeah and we were the champs and uh no one could win us and we just got so much like so much heat in that building it was that was like the first time we realized oh my god we're we're getting good at this like fuck the young bucks chance and stuff oh yeah that really opened our eyes because anywhere else we were the baby face but But in this building, we knew how to be heels. And we always told the promoters elsewhere, we're like, hey, we do something cool in Reseda, let us do that. But no one really trusted us yet to do that.

And it took years and years and years to finally try that in Japan for the Bullet Club. So that would be another big point of our career where we felt like, okay, we're getting the success, you know? So like our PWG run, our first PWG run, our New Japan run, obviously. Even before that too, though, when TNA pretty much saw nothing in us and then we left TNA to go to Ring of Honor. And then at the time, Jim Cornette didn't see anything in us. So it was back to back failures. And then from there, we were like, man,

we just got to go out there, go balls to the wall, do the stuff we learned in the backyard. Don't give a crap about getting heat and let's try that. And from there on it, it led to getting that new japan run so probably those three things i think one of the coolest things about you guys is that you acknowledge that you're also fans in addition to being in professional wrestling like there's a lot of guys that like hey you were a good football player that failed let's try you on professional wrestling like you guys are you guys like with like the melter pants you acknowledge that you're fans so you're obviously aware of the history of

wcw and how that ended so now that you guys have aew and you're performing but you're also executives how do you balance having power behind the scenes but also you know you want like you guys are the top tag team in aew but but, like, how do you not make it so that everyone that's watching is like, well, of course, you're the tag team champions. Right. That's tough. Jinx, Matt.

It's something we struggle with to this day, you know. I don't know if matt wants to go into that first before me or not yeah no i you know we've always just been one of the boys um and and i think it's that's just how we identify we're we're the we're the clowns in the locker room and we're we're always trying to get everybody to laugh and have a good time so now to be executives for a company and do you know in part of we're executive vice presidents and we're always trying to get everybody to laugh and have a good time. So now to be executives for a company and do, you know, and part of we're executive vice presidents and we do a lot of the creative, it's maybe people look at us differently and there's nothing you can do about

that. Like we're going to walk into a room and I think people are all like immediately going to probably feel a different way because they're going to go, Hey, it's office kayfabe. So it's like, but at the same time, Nick and I try to stay grounded. We want people to realize, listen, we're not going to hold this stupid power over your heads. We're here to collaborate with you because the best work we've ever done was collaborating.

It's always been that way. We've never been the style of guys who would come and do it, like show up at an end and be like, Hey, we're, we're, we've been doing this longer than you. This is the match we're doing tonight. We've never been that way. Like even last night when we wrestled top flight, these kids are 19 and 21.

We said, what do you guys want to do tonight? You know, let's do what you want to do. What are your ideas? And then we mold their ideas into a match that works best. And then you get your best match out of people people often tell us that like god you guys always have you bring out the best in certain talent how do you do it and it's like it's easy you listen to them and i never want to forget that and i think that's what keeps us young is we we always think young because we've always been the

young guys in the locker room like people have always oh it's the young bucks hey and we've always been the young guys in the locker room like people have always oh it's the young bucks hey and we've always been the kids you know listening to the veteran who's smoking his cigarette he's like let me just tell you a few things tonight and we just we're always respectful and listen like i still feel like that kid and i know now i'm not that kid but it's in my brain that i am you know it's like i think that's what keeps people thinking that we are maybe still just wrestlers too even when they realize oh they're executive vice presidents you know and i'm sure there's whispers in the locker room or the you know people are burying us because that's what you do the boys bury the office even if you're happy you have to bury the office that's just

so yeah the balancing it is really weird. We try our best. You'd have to talk to the wrestlers to see what they actually think about us. I'm sure a lot of them hate us. I'm sure a lot of them like us, too. I think we've done a good part in that. Like, I still go in the locker rooms and chat with all the boys. And I just try to be one of the boys still. But like Matt said, it's obviously a struggle. It's, you know, it's funny is, of course,

we knew we were going to get hell where, when we won the titles. And I obviously, I don't even look up anything anymore online because I know everything's just so negative. And of course, Brandon shows us a few things and he's like yeah some people are saying you booked yourselves to be champs and we knew we knew we would get that but it's so funny because it was not our idea and a lot of people don't realize that we actually we've for for almost two years now we've begged tony don't put him on us. Don't put him on us. And he's like, we can't have a tag division without the Bucks being the champions at one point. How many times would you say he tried to switch them and we said no? Oh, my God.

At least, I'm not kidding you, probably 20 different times. There would be a title match or a match we weren't even involved in. And he'd be like, let's put you guys in there and make it a three-way and you guys will win the titles. And we're like, nope, we can't do that. He would try to sneak it in. He's like, anyway, I'm thinking of a title match. You guys up.

Like, no. He's trying to do the Hogan WrestleMania 9 finish. He's like, he'll lose. You guys just sweep in. Win it in 20 seconds. Titles will be on you guys. We're like, we're like that complete opposite of, uh, of like the, the guys in control trying to make ourselves on top. Cause we, you know,

we, we see the future. We see some of these tag teams and we see like, these guys need to get a run before us. We don't need that right now. Like, right. But, but you know what the the timing now now in hindsight the the moment we had with FTR and the timing of it and us winning it really did feel big and it felt special so Tony I think was right on that call to put him on us at the pay-per-view he was too because like now we come out with the belts and it kind of just feels right like and I look at the pictures and I'm like, God, I've been,

I kind of missed this. You know what I mean? Like I didn't want it. And now that I have it, I'm like, damn, this is great. But like all the fans that are super negative about it being like, Oh, they booked themselves to win. Like that's the negative approach to looking at it. But like they have to understand if you're a wrestling fan, you have to understand that whoever beats you for the tag titles,

like that makes them bigger. Like the whole point is to elevate everybody else. And if you're the top dogs, how are you supposed to make another tag team take that step forward? Unless they take down the top dogs. Like it's just like, you know, and even,

even, uh, last night's a good example. Uh, top flight didn't even pin us, but they went toe-to-toe with the tag champs. So it elevated them just being in the ring with us. So it does help for sure. So do you guys watch wrestling under a different lens now that you're executives,

now that you're writing storylines? Do you find yourselves watching wrestling like you never have before? Yeah, yeah, definitely. It was funny. Like, this morning, I was just on Instagram, and I saw a clip from, like, 2000, and I sent it to Nick, and it was, like, Stone Cold had Triple H on this, like – he was in a car, and he had him, like, on one of these. It was so silly. Like a bulldozer, right? No, it like on one of these. It was so silly.

Like a bulldozer, right? It was a forklift. It was a forklift. He's got Triple H in the air. And he's like 50 feet in the air. And Triple H is like, you're going to regret this. You're going to regret this. And then Sokol drops him.

He flips the car from 50 feet. And Triple H falls. And like, I was like, he just murdered him. In the year 2000. Year 2000. feet and Triple H falls and like I was like he just murdered him 2000 I was like if we did that we would be crucified oh my god yeah like like it's like but at the time this is awesome you know so it's funny so yeah I do watch it in a different lens now where I'm just like how like how could you put that on a television show? And then Triple H probably was like on TV two weeks later or whatever.

I'm sure he was. Yeah. It's like, I just consider those things now. Like, like, is this too silly? Does this work? And like, whenever I see something on a show, I go, okay, where are they going with this? Like, I'm thinking 10 steps ahead now. I'm thinking, yeah. What match are they going with here? Cause like everything happens for a reason usually like at least with aew like we try to you know if we plant a seed we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna plant that seed watch the thing grow we're gonna you know fertilize it we're gonna water it and then we're gonna grow into this

thing and we know where we're going with it so like everything has purpose you can't just like book match and match like dream match after dream match too. Like that's one thing. Like I think Nick and I've made a career out of like every day it was the home run Derby and we're just swinging for the fences. Right. Every day is WrestleMania. Every day is wrestle kingdom. But when you're doing a weekly television show, you're like, Oh my God, I, we have to save a little because this happens, this is going to happen in seven days again. You know what I mean?

It's like, it's really hard to think that way because we're so used to, hey, every night's the big night, every night's the Super Bowl. And I've become conditioned finally to going, okay, hey, we don't have to wrestle every week because if we wrestle every week, our act doesn't, it's not special anymore,

if that makes any sense. People are going to see right through, they'll our act doesn't it's not special anymore if that makes any sense people are going to see right through they go oh it's the boxing because even if it's the best act in the world if you see it too many times yeah yeah you become desensitized like i just think about it differently than i did when it was on the independence or in japan when you would just show up and do a big match every six weeks you know and and you can get away with that you just had to have a great match every six weeks that was easy who can a lot of guys can do that but to stay interesting and to stay nuanced and and to have good match after good match every week is very freaking difficult like i have i have newfound respect for anyone who's ever been over, you know, on a, on a weekly television

wrestling show. It's almost impossible. And, and, you know, and even, even, you know, our competitor, like I, I respect the people there who had to, who've been doing this for years. I'm like, how do you do this? This job is thankless. It's impossible. And the fact that some of these people have been in the business as long as they have, and they're not creatively bankrupt, that's crazy. That's a special talent. So kudos to anybody who's ever booked a wrestling show, because this job is very hard. Speaking of creative, I know CM Punk used to take angles that he worked in Ring of Honor and then kind of tweak them a little bit and then bring them back to life in WWE.

Is there a storyline from like new Japan or ring of honor that you guys were involved in that you'd like to breathe new life into not like completely recycled, but like same idea, but times 10 in AEW, or is there a fear of like a lot of the people that were watching us in ring of honor in new japan they they're watching us now too like it's a lot of similar audience well you know what uh right off the bat i i think of our storyline with hangman and kenny and that was very similar to our storyline with kenny and ibushi so we've we've already kind of taken some of the stuff that we – I didn't even put that together. I'm speaking Mark. You guys got that past me. Like we took a lot of those elements from that and did it with Hangman.

And you know what? It worked. It worked perfectly. And look at how big Hangman is now after that story. Like he's an absolute superstar. It's insane. Like he's clearly the future of AEW. Uh, but like, I would like to do certain things that we did in PWG, uh,

and, and bring that stuff to a dynamite. Uh, I think there's some cool surprises and like we, we used to book all of our angles in pwg and a lot of the angles were really hot so if we could do some of the stuff similar to it but with like put a spin on it obviously to make it a little different i would all i would be all for that i like i i think wrestling needs more surprises because that's a lot of the stuff we would do at roh we would book our own stuff we'd have outside people showing up is like wrestling fans love that when it looks like oh my god this is impossible how are they doing that that's what wrestling I think sometimes misses and it's hard to navigate that with all the

political stuff with different companies and stuff I love when you know when a third party person shows up out of nowhere and people just like like, wait a minute, no way. You know, like that's one thing that we really did well, like in our ROH run, like when we booked our angle against the Hardy Boys and nobody thought that could ever happen. And we did it. And that's just magic to me. Because I remember when I was a kid, I would go to the live events and, pay-per-view, and I would just, oh, I hope someone shows up. You know what I mean? I hope they do a lights out, lights on, and someone's just in the ring. Like, I didn't care who it was.

Like, I just wanted the impossible to happen. And I think wrestling sometimes we forget to, like, act like fans. Like, we become so caught up in our own bubble. So that's one thing. Like, I want to always have a the finger on the pulse of of wrestling culture and and think about hey if i was a fan what would i enjoy what match would i enjoy let's like at the same time i was just talking earlier like about saving and preserving stuff but you also can't be afraid to pull the trigger sometimes and and and to just give fans

a big match on tv because we have to remember like we are in the middle of a dog fight every wednesday and you know we're we have the luxury of having a cable television show that's live every week for two hours let's remember that this is this is huge so let's let's give them cool stuff um and yeah i think we can tap into a lot of the stuff that we did back or because i'm sure so many people have no idea what we you know well at the time you know it felt so big but nobody saw it you know and we're we're still doing that like for instance packed no one saw that coming that day that's true like we still do it but you want to save some of it because there's no audience to give that like immediate pop so it doesn't get that same reaction that surprises used to have right so for instance like like matt hardy's debut like if that would

have been in front of 10 000 people oh my god that building would have went nuts the same with brody like yeah god it's unfortunate that we haven't had 10,000 people in the arenas. FTR, too. Yeah, FTR, too. Oh, my God, yeah. Just the match that you guys had would have been, like, in front of 10,000 people. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

It's insane to even think about it, but we're in such a new world now that it just seems normal. Yeah. I completely agree with the surprise element because I remember when AEW first debuted, it was like every week, we're like, well, who's going to show up this time? It was like for every single time

that you guys were on TV or pay-per-view, it was like, all right, well, who's next? Who's coming up there next? And that was part of the main draw. It's like, come for the wrestling, stay for the surprises. Right. Yeah. Moxley, Jericho, that debut when he came through the crowd all time in wrestling and then the way

that you guys booked that storyline by the way i mean we're short on time i could do two hours on the moxley jericho how perfect that whole thing was um don't forget killing the business from backyards to the big leagues is out now it's number one bestseller on amazon i just saw congratulations boys