My Mom's Basement - FRIDAY BONUS EPISODE 17 - KEN SHAMROCK

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

Robbie is joined in-studio by The World's Most Dangerous Man this week: MMA and Pro Wrestling LEGEND Ken Shamrock, and they had a great discussion about Ken's recent match with Joey Ryan on IMPACT where he took the infamous "Dick Flip", his mentality towards wrestling nowadays, being the special guest enforcer for "Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret Hart at WrestleMania 14, his feuds with The Rock, and of course, his trilogy with Royce Gracie!You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mymomsbasement

Hey My Mom's Basement listeners, you can find our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Ken Shamrock is a wrestling legend and an MMA legend, one of the few that can really, I guess say, one of the few that embodies both of those things. He couldn't have been a cooler guy, and I'm excited for you guys to hear this interview. Quick housekeeping before we get to it. Check out our Mandalorian recaps on BarstoolSports.com. It's me, Jeff Lowe, and Ken Jack from Light Scammer Barstool and we have been doing video recaps of both Watchmen and The Mandalorian. You can send in questions. We've been responding to questions on the show.

People have been giving real good feedback about it. People seem to dig both. So check those out. We will have a new one for Watchmen on Monday. We will have a new one for The Mandalorian. The episode one is already up, which I loved. We will talk about a little bit next week on the podcast. I'll try to get Clem in here for that. But we will have episode twos up as well. Episode two, as of me recording, this hasn't come out yet. But if you're listening to this on Friday, the odds are good that you will be able to listen to The Mandalorian episode two, as of me recording this, hasn't come out yet. But if you're listening to this on Friday, the odds are good that you will be able to listen to The Mandalorian episode two recap or even watch it. It's a video. So check those out.

They've been a lot of fun. As always, please rate and review the podcast if you haven't already and make sure you're subscribed. Without further ado, the world's most dangerous man, Ken Shamrock. All right. Welcome back to the show. I am joined now in studio by the world's most dangerous man, Ken Shamrock. All right, welcome back to the show. I am joined now in studio by the world's most dangerous man. It is an honor and a privilege to have Ken Shamrock sitting right across from me. Ken, how are you doing? Good, man. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Ken, you just made headlines all over the wrestling world because of your match

with Joey Ryan on Impact last night. Tell me about taking the dick flip. Tell me about, you know, everyone's talking about this. Did you expect it to blow up as much as it has? You know, I had an idea, uh, just because I felt, and I've, I've kind of had a pretty good sense of things. And I felt like this was something that people wouldn't expect. It's more of that shock factor. So when I first heard it, I was a little skeptical, but then I ran it by my family and my kids and they were like, dad, you got to do that. And I was like, all right. So when I first heard it, I was a little skeptical, but then I ran it by my family and my kids, and they were like, Dad, you've got to do that. And I was like, all right. And like I said, I was okay.

When I first heard it, I was a little bit – and then I was like, you know, this makes sense because it's something people wouldn't expect. Yeah. So when I finally said, okay, I'm going to do it, I literally felt like this could really pop. And it did. Like everyone's talking about it. I think, like you said, because it was unexpected, it seems like it's the kind of spot that a lot of people maybe from your era of wrestling would look down upon and be like you're exposing the business or something like this, that, the next thing. Or you're making the business a joke. Yes. understand with that is i see so many things that uh in wrestling that don't even compare to this

when you talk about someone doing a strip tease in the ring and they're grinding their hips and you got a guy you know jumping on people's faces with his butt you know rubbing it in their butt when he turns around and i'm thinking to myself why is this different? Because it's like, because it's a man's genitals, because it's someone's private parts. Like a Rikishi move or something like that, right? Well, okay, what's a butthole? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay,

I think I would rather have my hand there than in somebody's butt. So how do you avoid having that, you know, quote unquote, old timer mentality in wrestling and kind of staying on top of it, like you said, realizing that this would get a big pop out of people? Yeah, you know, quote-unquote old-timer mentality in wrestling and kind of staying on top of it, like you said, realizing that this would get a big pop out of people. Yeah, you know, I think I've been, at least, you know, as the years have gone by,

I've always been pretty good about being a trailblazer, trying to set my own path, kind of do my own thing, even wrestling, when I came into pro wrestling, you know, kind of, you know, broke the trend when people talked about I quit, and, you know, they never had a tap out until I went in there and doing submissions and all that so I had a pretty good sense on being able to try to do things that were different but yet still be popular so when I heard this and they came up with it was kind of like at first I was like well let me think and then I started thinking about it

and I'm like this could really happen like this could really be big and so it was kind of something I thought about and then I kind of saw it right away like okay yeah this this could really happen. This could really be big. So it was kind of something I thought about, and then I kind of saw it right away. Like, okay, yeah, this could be good. And it was. It was, yeah. I think that just like I did when I came in bound for glory, wanting to make a statement to people,

letting them know that Ken Shamrock isn't just talking the talk. He's walking the walk. Like I said I was back. I said I'm 100% and I proved it. I went 100 miles an hour. I know you're diving over that top rope and all. So being able to do that was something that I wanted

to make sure I made a statement. Well the same thing goes with Joey Ryan. People have this thing and maybe a thought about me because they haven't met me or they don't know me. Like I'm too good for this or that I think I'm bigger than this or, you know, just something that might be the intimidation factor. World's most dangerous. Right. But by being able to do this, it lets people know that, hey, you know, I love pro wrestling. I love

entertaining people and I'll do whatever I have to to make sure people have a good time. It seems like you love pro wrestling, and you've been coming back to it for so long. What do you say to the doubters? Because I'm a massive mixed martial arts fan. I'm a massive pro wrestling fan my entire life. I love both. I see the differences in both. I don't really see many similarities in both. There are a few here and there, obviously. But what do you say to the doubters that are MMA fans that still look down on wrestling? Well, I mean, I think that you've got to take a hard look in the mirror and say, obviously. But what do you say to the doubters that are MMA fans that still look down on wrestling? Well, I mean, I think that, you know, you got to take a hard look in the mirror and say, why? Like, why do you, if you don't like it, that's fine.

But don't hate it, right? Because there's no reason to hate. And you must have been dealing with this for a long time. I mean, your entire career now, right? Because there is a weird hatred, a weird, it's not jealousy, but it feels like jealousy. Well, it's almost like they think that you're selling them out, like you're selling out, like you're doing something that's stupid and ugly. And it's those people, at least in my opinion, those kind of people are the ones that I believe

have a lot of issues with racism, a lot of issues with hating people for no reason. Maybe their lives suck. I don't know what it is. But there's something going on with those kinds of people that have to make sure that people know they hate wrestling. And they literally get vulgar and violent about it. There's something wrong with them. It's just hateful people. Yes.

I would tend to agree on that. Now, I got two WrestleManias that I would love to ask you about as a massive wrestling fan. WrestleMania 13. What do you remember about that event? Such a special event, obviously, and you had inclusion in one of the most famous matches of all time. It was an incredible match. That was one of the matches where it was an eye-opener for me, because when I went into pro wrestling, I wanted to do it, but yet I was trying to figure out how. Like, how do I take this world? Like the Joey Ryan thing, you know? I was in one of those moments where, well, how do I do this?

Where people know me as this guy, the world's most dangerous man. How do I go in there and sell a punch or let somebody do something to me? Did you feel almost vulnerable in the beginning because of that? I did. I'm the world's most dangerous man. I'm going to let someone beat me up. And it was like not let them beat me up, but like I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it right.

It wasn't like I didn't want to do that, but I was just trying to figure out how. How do I do this? How do I marry this pro wrestling and this more more dangerous man thing how do i do that and going into this match was my first experience of learning how to do that because i went into this thinking to myself i'm refereeing this match and i'm an important part on making this match successful and me successful how How do I do that? And I'm thinking to myself, I cannot overreact to something that doesn't happen. And so as I did the match, I said, I'm just going to be me.

I can't. I'm not going to go out there and make believe like this guy is hurting. I'm not going to do it. I can't do it. So the match starts five minutes into the match i'm doing this refereeing like i'm refereeing an mma match like the match was that good like i couldn't tell the difference between what mma was doing and what these two guys were doing yeah and so right then and there i really thought like I can do this

I can do this and that's how we because before that people want to say the attitude era was before no the attitude happened that night I agree I think that kicked it off it happened right there and so that was what my character was from that moment on was like I can do this

because if those guys are going in there and beating the heck out of one another, then I got to be able to go in and do the same thing with what I do. And so I really did get an understanding in having the match with Vader because Vader was also a fighter, and he was also a guy that had done some MMA and did some hard style matches. I didn't realize Vader did MMA. Yeah, he did. He had some fights and stuff.

So I was able to go in and have a match with him like Bret Hart and Stone Cold did, right? Yeah. We really went after one another. You go real stiff with each other and stuff. Yeah, and it was great. The match was over and people asked if we were okay and we're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, you were having fun in there. Yeah, but that's really what gave me my grounds to really understand who Ken Shamrock was going to be. So let's go one year forward, WrestleMania 14.

You have a match with The Rock for the Intercontinental Championship. And this was, I mean, Ken Shamrock, if you weren't on the scene at this point, you were on everyone's radar after this. Talk about WrestleMania 14. That was a great match. And being able to work with The Rock, both of us really cut our tees on one another because he was kind of floundering. I was just coming in. He was with the nation. Yep. You know, but he wasn't in his own identity yet, right? Yeah. And so then me and him started doing the programs.

He kind of broke off, and we were starting to do our singles program. Both of us just like, boom. And we did it because we were working against one another, and we were able to really develop our characters and who we were going to be from that moment on. And that match right there really solidified who he was and who I was. I think so, too. And was it cool seeing The Rock's rise?

Like you said, he really hadn't created The Rock persona at that point, but he was on the way. So is it cool looking back and being like, I was a part of that? It was an honor. I mean, I think about being in there and seeing where he's at right now that, man, I was a part of his history. And, you know, and I'm thinking to myself, man, that was a cool moment and a cool time to be able to know that I was able to be in a moment with him

and where he's at right now, man. It's crazy. You think about it, you're like, man, I was very blessed, man, to be in that moment with all those guys being able to wrestle at that level, being able to wrestle with Stone Cold and Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker. I mean, all of them. And then The Rock and then seeing where he's at. So, man, I have a lot of great memories and a lot of great opportunities

that I had during those times with the Attitude Era. Do you have a favorite opponent you've ever been in the ring with? Yeah, you know, I mean, there's a lot of good ones, you know. I'm sure. Like you just said, you rattled off a list. Your list is like a Hall of Fame list. It was amazing, right? So they were all good, and I learned a lot.

But I would have to say The Rock just because we had really built our characters off one another. Yeah, it's not a bad one. Now, transitioning a bit to mixed martial arts, an opponent maybe you weren't as friendly with, an opponent you didn't like as much, Hoist Gracie. I would love to talk a bit about the trilogy so the first fight you have the fight and you take a loss and you said afterwards you didn't really you underestimated him maybe you didn't know how to prepare what was it like preparing for the UFC back then because were you watching any tape did you have any tape on hoist you have any idea where he was coming from? Did you know what Brazilian jiu-jitsu was? What was the level of knowledge you had?

None. I remember I watched a brief tape of him when I was in Japan. I went down to defend my title before I went down and fought in the UFC three days prior in Denver. Which is insane looking back on what happened. But think about it. I didn't think it was going to happen. You didn't think the UFC event was going to happen, right? No. You think about it. It didn't think it was going to happen. You didn't think the UFC event was going to happen, right? No.

You think about it. It was no holes barred. Bare knuckle. Kicking guys on the ground. Head butting them. I mean, all these things, right? And you're just like, that's not going to happen. It can't happen.

So I go and defend my title. I fly into Denver three days later going to this thing thinking, okay, they're going to pull us aside. Okay, this is how it's going to work. And so I went there not thinking it's gonna happen we go into this thing and it was supposed to be no holes board yeah suppose anything goes the the two days before the event they had this meeting this rules meeting i was like rules meeting i was like okay here's the first thinking okay here we go with no fish hooking right no eye gouging

and if you do you're just going to get fined the fight won't stop another thing that's insane you're going in there what are you signing up for at this point and you're a legitimate fighter at this point well I'm a street fighter I mean I grew up on the streets fighting right so none of this scared me because there's no gun and there's

no knife and I'm not going to get jumped. So it's like – it's not like it scared me or anything. But in the whole time in my mind, I'm still thinking, can't do that. I mean they can't do that, right? Which is what I'm OK with, right? And so they go – right after they say all these things, which is supposed to be no holes barred, which it is because they're not going to stop the fight. Yes, it basically is. You're only making $1,500.

So you get fined twice. Your money's gone. So win the fight. Yes. So that's what people really thought, too. Well, that's not going to matter. I just want to win. So the next thing they go is they take away, I forget which one it was.

I believe it was Zane Frazier's kick pads because he was going to wear kick pads. They said you can't wear kick pads. They're like, why? It seems weird that you can't wear kick pads if it's no-holds-barred, like just to protect yourself. Then they let Art Jemison wear one box of gloves. So they were making the rules up. And then they come to me and they say I can't wear my wrestling shoes. I was like, well, why?

Because they're dangerous. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? You kick a guy in the head, but you can't wear wrestling shoes? And I'm like, in my mind, I was cocky. Yeah. And I was like, okay, no worries. I'm going to beat all these guys anyways, right?

I mean, I thought I was going to destroy everybody because it just looked like a joke. Definitely. And so they take my wrestling shoes away. Well, what I didn't realize was that when they took my wrestling shoes and they did their homework on me because they watched me over in Japan where I was the champion over there. And I was wearing wrestling shoes. And so they figured by them taking my shoes away, I'd be slipping, right? Yeah. And that's exactly what happened.

And the event was sort of run by the Gracies and all that. It was a promotion for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. So Gracie gets the submission over you, and the second fight is the one I'm super interested in because the super fight is booked, everyone's looking forward to it, and right before the event, a time limit gets put on it, a 30-minute time limit. And you said after the fight that that hindered your game plan. Is it true that your game plan was to fight for two hours that night? Yes. Yeah.

Where did that come from? Gracie's always said that they were the best condition athletes and that their submissions were the best. Like this style was the best in the world. And so me being from Japan with the shoot wrestling um catch wrestling i wanted to put an end to that i was in great shape i could i went 45 minutes with hoist not hoist but fanaki um with a two out of three fall um i knew i could go for two hours and so i started training for that because i didn't want to just beat him into it because i knew the faster you went against him after i fought him the first time I realized that the gi was a trap yeah you get caught yes

and the sweatier you get the more the gi catches you and the more you move out of the guard the more at risk you are so I really at that time was where I created the grounding pound where I hit his body I hit him in the head and I just work him and stay there and let him make the moves, let him commit. And I was going to do that until he got so tired after me pounding his body. For two hours. For however long it took that his legs would drop and that I would be able to submit him at ease. And if you watch the fight, I had him. Yeah.

It would have worked. No, you definitely did. Yes. It was said by everyone later if there were judges, the judges would have awarded you the fight, I had him. Yeah. It would have worked. No, you definitely did. Yes. It was said by everyone later, if there were judges, the judges would have awarded you the fight. Well, if it would have gone another 20 minutes, he wouldn't have been able to walk out of the ring because if you saw the way the fight ended, he was laying on me. They had to carry him. His brothers had to come in and carry him back to the locker room because he was that

exhausted because of all the body shots that was landing on him, trying to get him to drop his legs. But because we had found out the night before that they were putting a time limit in, I couldn't change my strategy. So I had to stay with it, thinking that 30 minutes. And then, of course, they came in and said three more minutes, and then they asked for another three more minutes. And finally, after they did the two overtimes, because Horian was the one screaming it, he came out to do it again.

And his brothers told him in the corner, he can't go no more. And I was like, no, no, three more minutes. Yeah, you wanted it. You were the best conditioned athlete in your mind. And after that, you know, draw, quote unquote draw, were you happy knowing that you put on a great performance and anyone watching that fight knew who was starting to win, or were you just frustrated that it was a draw and you couldn't get the official victory? I think I was more angry and frustrated at the shoes when they did the first one.

It was still bothering me that— Even the second fight, you were like, I should have been wearing shoes in that first one? Yeah, because it just bothered me that I allowed them to do that because i think in the first one i would have i'd have destroyed him yeah because there was no time limit right yeah i mean i'd have been able to go as long as i needed to and uh he wouldn't have been able to get me like that with the shoes on because i had much more balance much more strength a lot more leverage to be able to move and do what i wanted to do just like i did in the second one. I just dominated him.

Yeah. And I thought I could have done that in the first one, but in the first one there was no time limit. And our weight wasn't too far off from one another. We were the two lightest guys in the tournament. What were you? You were around like 205? No, I was about 190, 194 pounds, something like that.

And I think he was around 180-something. Yeah, he said he was 170, but he was over 180, around 185 or something, because he was taller than me. So that's the thing I think frustrated me all the way into the second fight was that i just felt man i just and that was on me not him yeah to do with them i made that mistake because i allowed him to do it so the trilogy is booked almost 21 years later in bellator in 2016 do you regret booking that fight after the way it went? I mean, Hoyce just hit you right in the dick.

Yeah, I just, man, I like, you know, and you don't know why it happens, but that was just something throughout my career, for whatever reason, it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah. You know, I mean, I mean, how does that happen? I'm wearing a steel cup. Yeah. Right? I mean, I know if he, and'm wearing a steel cup. Yeah. Right? I mean, I know if he, and I kind of thought he would try to find a way out of it somehow.

And how often does a groin shot go unnoticed in MMA? Yeah, you know, and that's just, like I said, I just, it's frustrating. I got to let it go, right? I mean, it's one of those things you just got to, hey, it wasn't meant to be. So would you say there is bad blood between you and Hoist? Like, was that the last time you saw him? There's bad blood only because, because it happened right the way the way he reacted to it maybe yeah that that bothers me because he almost said well that's the way we used to fight and you're like what you just admitted you did it on purpose yeah and and and

then not to be able to go back and do it again like he wouldn't fight me again i know and uh and i just felt and not only just for myself but i felt like the fans were robbed to be able to go back and do it again. Like, he wouldn't fight me again. I know. And I just felt, not only just for myself, but I felt like the fans were robbed of being able to see this thing end one way or the other, but just to be able to have a finish to it. And it never happened because he wouldn't fight me. He wouldn't do it again. And to me, to be able to have somebody I wouldn't do it, to be able to sit there and say I won the fight, I'd be embarrassed to know that I

did hit him in the groin even and I think it was on purpose because I mean I'm in close I'm not moving there's no way that was an accident but even put that aside okay I'll accept it was an accident if that's what you want to say fight me again and let's put an end to it you know

and unfortunately he didn't want to do that so it even makes even more sense of why he did it on purpose. You know. All right. So I've got one more question for you. A question that I ask all of my guests. Can you recommend our listeners maybe an obscure match? You could be a part of this match or you could not be a part of the match for them to go

check out that you don't think that they've seen a wrestling match. Yeah, it's got to be the one I just did over in australia with dan severin um wow we did a match over there uh went 40 minute broadway holy shit how recently it was four months ago two savages you guys and we went 40 minutes and it was a shoot it was a worked shoot and when we got done with it we got a standing ovation from the locker room and also from the the fans that watched it so that's a match that i i think most people looked at said oh man that's gonna be slow it's gonna be but i mean we it was a it wasn't a regular wrestling match it was a shoot match where it was a worked shoot we went 40 minutes and beat the heck out of one another.

I completely believe that. I mean, your match against Moose was next level. And then I've saw Dan Severin even recently. He was against Matt Riddle, I want to say two years ago, and put on a great show. Like, obviously, you guys could both go. So I definitely believe that. And I'll definitely be checking that out. Yeah, BCW is where we did it at.

BCW, go check it out. Why don't you tell the listeners about why you're in town? Yeah, listen, I'm a big fan of wrestling. I've always loved wrestling. When I first went in and did the WrestleMania 13, I fell in love with it. How could you not with that match? Right, and then, of course, me being able to go out

and do the same thing and have fun at it and entertain people. I'm back at Impact Wrestling. You know, I first had a match over the Bound for Glory in Chicago. It was fun. I enjoyed it again. I did some stuff I didn't think I could still do. And so I'm back at it.

I enjoy it. The fans are going crazy over it. I'm going crazy over it. The guys I'm working with at impact wrestling got that attitude error type feeling again where everybody's competing at a high level they're all challenging one another um the stuff we're doing is at a high level and so we're doing a tv taping um thursday and friday um at Melrose Ballroom. And so you want to come down and check it out.

We're doing a bunch of tapings down there. You can come down and be a part of it, get on TV. And I'm telling you, man, I think that in the next six months to a year, you're going to see either one WWF or AE, are going to have to step their games up. Because I think that what we're doing right now is a step above what they're doing. But I always believe this, that wrestling is one of those things where you're challenging one another. And if you don't challenge the other people back, you're going to get left in the dust. And I think that WWF and AEW will challenge and I think wrestling is at a very very fun

time right now where it's having a lot of people enjoy wrestling with different organizations and the wrestlers that we have right now are really setting the bar on how wrestling should be I'm with you I think impact has been really really enjoyable lately and I really appreciate you coming on the show Ken Shamrock check him out on impact.com