NASW Social Work Talks - EP 129: Navigating the Now: Self Care for Social Workers

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

In this special episode for Mental Health Awareness Month, we will delve into the intersection of mental health awareness and social work practice, providing insights into self-care strategies in today's challenging climate. Nick Szubiak, LCSW is the Founder of NSI Strategies, an organization that provides support to integrated healthcare environments.

Welcome to NASW's podcast, Social Work Talks. The National Association of Social Workers is one of the largest membership organizations of professional social workers in the world. NASW works to enhance the professional growth and development of our members, to create and maintain professional standards, and to advance sound social work policies. With our mission in mind, the purpose of NASW Social Work Talks is to inform, educate, and inspire. We encourage you to learn more about NASW by visiting www.socialworkers.org. And we thank you for joining us for this episode.

This is Social Work Talks. I'm your host, Denise Johnson. Joining us today is Nick Zubiak. He's a licensed clinical social worker and founder of NSI Strategies, an organization that provides support to integrated healthcare environments. He serves as an advanced implementation specialist for SAMHSA's Opioid Response Network and as faculty for the Centers of Excellence for Integrated Health Solutions, as well as being a member of NASW's Mental Health Committee.

Nick has more than 20 years of experience in direct service administration and clinical practice and he most recently served on the NASW task force to revise the standards in clinical social work practice Nick is known for his heartfelt presentations keynote speeches and has set on various panels partnering with many organizations as a behavioral health subject matter expert. Wow, Nick, with all that experience that you had, I know that you're going to have some good insights for our listeners. I hope I can live up to that introduction. My goodness. Thank you, Denise. No worries. Before we get started, though, I'd like to, if you could dive in just to talk about just how you got into social work. Yeah, I think my story is probably similar

to a lot of us, uh, social workers. My, my family got hit with some difficult times and some trauma. I was one of those kids that really, I think, uh, was a bit lost and falling and slipping through the cracks. I was lucky enough to find myself, um, in a therapy room with a therapist. finally, after many, many years of really struggling, who changed my life. His name was Steve. I was having a lot of, uh, a lot of challenges and, and, and not really going to school. Um, a lot of, uh, behavioral health issues and physical health issues. I started talking to this guy, Steve, and all of a sudden I started to feel better. I started to feel better for the first time in a long time, that's when I knew that this was, whatever this was, was

something that I just had to know more about and I had to study and I had to learn about it. And so I think I knew I was going to be a social worker kind of like when I was 12 years old, 13 years old and decided that that was going to be my career. And I wanted to learn more about how my mind can impact my body and how my body is impacted by how I feel and how all these things work together and what at the time was a mysterious way. And so, yeah, that's, that's, that's how I, I kind of knew that I was going to be a social worker. And I really appreciate you just sharing your journey, you know, just going through your vast experience and your diverse experience. And I don't think people realize just how diverse and how broad our field really is.

So it's I think it's always good to just take a moment just to highlight just, you know, the journey and where you've come from. And then also just all the avenues and the roles that social workers can be involved in. So it is May and it's Mental Health Awareness Month. on that note, we're in some challenging times. There's just no way to sugarcoat that now is there. So given today's climate was just policy changes and the rising demand and need for mental health services, what are some issues that you're finding that social workers are facing that you feel are not getting enough attention? Yeah, it's a it's such a timely question, Denise. And I also feel like that's been a question that we've been asking since I became

a social worker. And it's a little different right now. This is a unique time. The political climate has really shifted things for us as social workers. I think for all of us in all the communities across the country in different ways. And so what I think really is different, and we've even changed the terminology of this stuff, right? We used to talk about burnout. And then we talk about things like toxic stress and compassion fatigue, which are all great different dynamics to help us understand the challenges that I think are unique for social workers. And so while this is an issue that we've been grappling with for decades, I think what makes

and has changed in this area is that I think fewer social workers are experiencing the rebound. I think that what we're finding is that social workers are not getting those periods and opportunities to recover. And so the stress level has been unrelenting. And there's a lot of different dynamics around that, that I, that I think contribute to that. But a big part of that is not for many of us, the work that we do say with a particular client or family, it's the dynamics and the systems that we have to do that work in that really are causing us, what I would say is a main contributor to this exhaustion and this burnout and this compassion fatigue, which is moral injury of being put in places where we're being asked to help and support

folks in ways that the system doesn't give us the options that we need and worse sometimes puts us at odds with our own social work values and morals. Yeah, that is so true. So, you know, you mentioned about like burnout and I know, you know, we're talking about being authentic and in just being just real with ourselves and just what's going on. Are there any other just kind of like coping skills or things that have like resonated with you where, you know, we're coming from COVID and then, you know, with all of this and, you know, what, what has, what has worked for you? And yeah, Denise, and it's amazing. Like the research coming out right now is saying that even as a nation, like people in the workforce are more stressed now than they were during COVID,

which blows my mind, right? Like, wow. And that just says so much. So, you know, I'm so lucky I get to talk with a lot of leaders in the field around leadership skills and resiliency and development. And one of the key things that everyone keeps talking about is how we really need to safeguard against individualism and isolation. And while, you know, if you're introverted, you know, we know you need to go in your cave and be with your thoughts and take your time. But there's a difference between recharging and shutting down and isolating. You know, one of the things that's coming out that is such a protective factor around exhaustion and burnout is community and community action and collaboration so finding your people you know it's tricky though

because like at happy hour right we go to happy hour no one's talking about anything happy like that right like it's all um so also being mindful of how you utilize those relationships in that time and not turning it into a thing that is exacerbating negative emotional states, but really talking to someone from a place of support and emotional validation. And so that's what I mean when I say finding your people and really making intentional choices. You know, we all have friends that we know when we go talk to them, it's going to go down a negative road. We also need to find folks that are going to be validating and supportive and help enhance our emotional resiliency. And so those connections, finding them at work, the research also says,

Denise, that if we have what they call in the research is a best friend, that also is a major factor in enhancing our experience at work and also strengthening our resiliency. So those are some key pieces that I think are really important that we as social workers, especially in the work that we do, you know, our tool is us, right? It's our body. It's our energy. It's our language, our words, our presence. And so attending and caring for, you know, we talk about them as different, but as that whole self, as that whole self wellness is so critical for the effectiveness that we're going to bring every day to the folks that we serve, but also for our own wellness and how well then, you know, we we can be with our our partners and our families and our animals and our dogs, you know, and all of in all of our relationships.

How do you just because, again, yeah, we're consumed with the stuff on the news, stuff on social media. And if we're not careful, we can easily get overwhelmed by that. So what do you do to stay grounded, to stay balanced? You know, I heard a speaker say this last week at the National Council Conference that it's not, they don't even in the industry call our news now, they don't even call it news. They don't call it entertainment. They call it anger-tainment.

And so the first thing I think of is that it's not our fault if we feel upended and bent and negative. That is the design and the model that taps into our antiquated nervous system of fight and flight response, of being in fear, of hyper focus. So part of that is to realize that if you feel angry and upset and dysregulated when you watch the news, that's exactly normal. That's what's supposed to be happening. So that was like really helpful for me to take some of the judgment out of me feeling maybe weak or sensitive or over emotional around some of these things and understanding that actually it's in the design mechanism of that. So that's really helpful.

The other thing that I think is really helpful, and I've done this in my own life, is that I've decided to limit my exposure to the news. This goes up against the responsibility that I think many of us especially feel as social workers to stay informed and stay current and not remain in a state of ignorance. You know what? Don't worry about it. Because if you limit yourself to reading some headlines, maybe picking one or two articles that you want to read and then shutting it off, you're going to get everything that you need to know. And if you don't, everyone around you is going to be more than willing to fill you in on what you don't know if you don't know. And I've found that that's been really helpful in supporting my own resiliency of

limiting my exposure. The other thing, Denise, that we needed to do in our house is we kind of set up some boundaries around it. You know, I live in the DC area. So like, it's very political here everywhere you go. And it's seemingly every neighbor that we bump into is, is, is impacted and involved with it. So we, we, we set a boundary at our house that we don't, we try not to talk about some of these issues past six o'clock. And at dinner, if anyone at the table feels like they just, this is like, they don't want to talk about this anymore. They don't have the bandwidth for it that we normalize saying that at dinner to say, can we not talk about that? And that everyone at the table honors that. And we move on. Now we're not always good at it. Like, so, you know,

however, for the most part, we've stuck to that. And, and, and I think reducing our exposure to those things has been really helpful in supporting my own resiliency. And like you said, not going down a lot of those negative paths, the negative narratives that are out there right now. And then, like you said, that helps to setting boundaries, setting limits, that self-awareness of what's coming up for us in terms of, you know, certain things and just being aware of that. That helps navigate those difficult situations with, you know, family and loved ones and loved ones and colleagues and setting boundaries with, you know, those interactions. So it's like, okay, we're not going to, we're going to talk about this. Yeah. And sometimes, and sometimes

you're stuck though. Like sometimes you're in a position where, you know, that's what your client wants to talk about. You know, I think social workers are talking more about politics in the last few years than, than maybe they ever have in session because these issues are impacting folks in much more real, tangible ways. And so I think that's a, that's another challenge for social workers. And one of the things I try and remember when I'm in that situation is that I don't, I try not to speak in absolutes, Denise, but this one's pretty close for me is that you almost never can go wrong with compassion. And letting go of my need to convince the other person of a particular point of view, letting go of explaining to them why they're wrong, explaining to them why I'm

right, explain to them why they're ignorant or don't understand a certain situation they do, while that is certainly ego satisfying for me to do, it typically doesn't work and it's not productive. And so when you find yourself in those situations to make an investment in the person that you're with, to truly just make a space to allow them to talk and to hear them, again, limiting your exposure to that, but also that builds a capacity of you being able to hold dichotomous thoughts, emotions, feelings, and experiences at the same time. And that's a fantastic skill set for social work, for anybody, but for social workers as well. Being aware of that need and

that push to argue, correct, and just allow really can be a game changer in those moments for folks. So, you know, we have just a couple of minutes left. So what are some key takeaways that you hope that our listeners will get from this conversation? I really hope that our words today and our conversation, Denise, provides a reminder to the strengths that we have as social workers. Our training, as we started this, is built likely for 99% of us on heartfelt, passionate, mission-driven work. comes from a place that I think is very unique to other industries and other jobs. And so knowing that, that we stand on that, I think combines with our training, which is so important right now, because as social workers, we are different in that our training teaches us to understand the intersection of systems. And if our environments and our

communities are going to solve the complex problems that we are facing, it's going to take social work thinking and social work brains in being able to bring the complexities of these different systems and continue the evolution of integration. And so I hope our words today support the amazing folks out there who are doing this this work and these challenging systems to, to keep doing it and, and know that the strengths and the resources that you need are right there within you, especially when we all forget that we have them. Thank you, Nick, for just your perspective and your resources and just. I feel very grateful to, uh, to be asked to do this with you and, and, and ASW. And,

and I just hope, uh, maybe this gets out there and supports our fellow social workers. So thank you. Thank you, listeners, for tuning into this episode of Social Work Talks as we engage in an important conversation on navigating the now. Self-care for social workers in a changing world. A link to Nick Zubiak's NSI Compassion Fatigue Burnout Self-Assessment Questionnaire can be found in the show notes section of our website. Just Google NASW Social Work Talks to find it.

And again, thank you so much for listening. And for more information about this topic, please visit www.nsistrategies.com. Goodbye for now. You have been listening to NASW Social Work Talks, a production of the National Association of Social Workers. We encourage you to visit our website for more information about our efforts to enhance the professional development and growth of our members to create and maintain professional standards and to advance sound social work policies. You can learn more at www.socialworkers.org

and don't forget to subscribe to NASW Social Work Talks wherever you get your podcasts and please leave us a review. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next episode. you