National Park After Dark - Behind the Scenes of Rhino Man ft. Director John Jurko II

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Today we are joined again by John Jurko, director and producer of Rhino Man, a film that follows the courageous field rangers who risk their lives to protect South Africa's rhinos. A lot has happened since our first discussion with John. He catches us up with all the developments regarding the film, his life and the legacy work he and his team continue to dedicate in memory of Anton Mzimba.Please visit the following links for more information, further listening and to lend your support.Website: rhinomanthemovie.orgPodcast: rhinomanthemovie.org/podcastAnton Mzimba Education Fund: antonmzimba.comJustice for Anton Petition: justiceforanton.orgFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.Beam: Use our link and code NPAD for up to 50% off.  Zocdoc: Use our link to download the Zocdoc app for free.Apostrophe: Use our link and code NPAD to get your first visit for only $5.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I know, we're on a role with returning guests as recently. And it's great because it's been so long since we've spoken with them in a formal way, you know, obviously exchanging emails and we're all friends on Instagram and stuff like that. So we see what's going on, but to actually sit down and have a revisit kind of conversation is really cool. And today we have on John Jerko. We had him on over a year ago. So you may not remember if you're new and you're like, who's this? You should go back and listen to the first episode and then come right back and listen to this one. Yeah, pause. Go back. We'll give you a second. Okay, great. Welcome back. Okay. You're back. So yeah. So when we first spoke with John over a year ago, we got familiar with the movie Rino Man that he was working on. And Rino Man

follows the courageous field rangers who risk their lives every day to protect South Africa's rhinos. from being poached to extinction. It highlights one ranger in particular, Anton Mzimba, the head ranger of the Timbavati Private Nature Reserve, as he and his team battle to protect the rhinos. It also follows the legendary trainer Ruben de Kock and his wife Marianne's struggle to take a group of candidates through rigorous ranger selection at the Southern African Wildlife College. It's a race to inspire the next generation to care for the rhinos and the natural world before poachers and habitat loss wipe out one species after another. In this story, greed, desperation, and violence are met with an even stronger set of forces, those of love, dedication, and willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice for a better

future, and poses the question, would you risk your life to save a species? Rhinoman has received praises from the highest of places, including from Jane Goodall and the Prince and Princess of Wales. Since we last spoke, the film has undergone some transformations, and John has been very busy with travels across the world to mourn the loss of his friends. to famous film festivals and even to give presentations to royalty. It's time to catch up and find out what's new with the film, John's project, and his life. And we are very pleased to welcome John to the show. Well, hello, John.

Welcome back to National Park After Dark. It's been a while since we spoke to you last. Yeah, it's been just a little over a year since our last episode. So, yeah, thank you so much for having me back. It's really awesome to be on here with you too. Yeah, thank you for joining us. We know that there has been a lot that has happened. happened in the past year and we'd love to dive into that. But before we do that, just for everyone

listening, who maybe hasn't heard the first episode yet, even though in our intro, we told them to go back and listen to it, just in case they're not familiar. Can you just reintroduce yourself and give everyone a brief summary of how you got involved in Rhino Man and what Rhinel Man is? Yeah, absolutely. I'll try to make it quick since we covered some of this in the last episode. But essentially my background is more filmmaking, graduated with a film degree at Bowling Green State in Ohio. It's on my way out to L.A. for a couple years working on indie films. And then a long roundabout way made my way to Atlanta where I was eventually connected to Rhino Man. So I came to this project more from the filmmaking side.

But my great friend and the guy that started this whole project, Matt Lindenberg, comes from the conservation side. And he's South African. He grew up in the Kruger National Park area. and eventually, after jumping around the world a bit, made his way back to where he studied at the Southern African Wildlife College, helped train Rangers there, and eventually started his nonprofit Global Conservation Corps. So Rhino Man was kind of the first project of GCC, and it was more focused on supporting the Rangers, telling their stories because they're the unsung heroes that kind of, you know, most people just don't even realize they're out there doing this work and protecting nature while

they're out there enjoying it. So he really wanted to highlight those stories and ended up partnering with a production company in the U.S. that I got connected to some years later, and he was here in the U.S. in Atlanta when I got connected to them and kind of met, became great friends, and took the story from where it was and developed it more and pulled out the main characters and went on some crazy adventures together. So that was how I got connected to it. Originally, just as a story that appealed to me, and I kind of tracked these guys down and stocked them for a year, got a job there, got connected to the project, and yeah, it's taken me on a five and a half year journey at this point.

Five and a half years. That's incredible. Time flies. Yeah. It does fly. Yeah. I mean, when I got connected to it, I was like, oh, this will be like a cool film. I spend a few months, help them finish it.

And then it'll be a stepping stone to another project. And now it's like I'm sort of like a mini expert on rangers and rhinos. And somehow I'm like completely immersed in this conservation world, especially African conservation and rangers. So yeah, totally unexpected. But it's been a fun ride. Lots of ups and downs. but made some of my best friends in the world through it.

Yeah. Sounds like it really changed the trajectory of your life and your career. Yeah, for sure. Save to least. So the movie itself follows Anton, the head ranger of the, is it Mimba Voddy? Timbavati. Timbavati, private nature reserve and his team to battle to protect rhinos. And back, you know, a year or so ago, we were given the opportunity to view an early,

version of the film, kind of, you know, where it was at at that point in time. And just prior to our interview with you, tragically, in that time, Anton was gunned down in front of his family. And we obviously addressed that in the first episode as well. So first of all, we know you two were extremely close through your time working on the film and just being so intimate with the Rangers and him and his family. So first of all, we want to just address that and make sure that your heart's doing okay and you're doing okay as best as you can, obviously. We've talked privately about grief and all that. So that being said, can you walk us through how Anton's unexpected death impacted the trajectory

of the film? Because it has kind of morphed a little bit in that time. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, when we talked that last time, it was crazy because, I mean, it was really almost the completed project that I sent you to. And I think we had like some color grades and some final mixes on the sound. And so for me, at that point, it had been like a four-year journey.

And there's been a lot of ups and downs just in my personal life to get it to that point. So it was, you know, from my side, I was like, finally, we're there. We're almost done with this movie. We're getting it out. And then, like you said, Anton was, was gunned down by two hit men from this rhino poaching syndicate right before I spoke with you. And so that was just a devastating personal experience. But, I mean, the whole team was really close with him.

And he had such an impact on the conservation world, especially in the Kruger area. in South Africa. And so it just kind of sent us down this crazy road, which I can go into and kind of tell you that journey and where it's taken us. But yeah, I think it just, for me, it made the project even more personal, you know, as a friend being lost to this. I really wanted to, you know, make sure that this gets out in a huge way and honors his legacy and carries his torch forward however best we can. And to just highlight what these Rangers go through because I think in the film we had hinted at these possibilities and these threats to Rangers' lives, but I think his death made it so much more raw and real that this does happen.

And so in that way, you know, it was a struggle as a friend and a filmmaker to be like, do we put this into the film? How do we, you know, use this part of the story in a way that is respectful but also honors what he was doing? But after a lot of processing and going on some of these trips back to South Africa and connecting with people, I think we just realized that, you know, Anton had spent about seven years already with us getting this project to where it was. And for him, he wanted to have impact and bring more support and awareness for Rangers. So I think being able to use what happened to

him to make the story more emotional and real in a way that would bring more support and awareness for these Rangers, I think made sense. And at a certain point, you know, made peace with that and decided to move forward with bringing his death into the story. I think it definitely, I mean, the story itself before that is really impactful and it's horrible. horrible what's going on there, but adding that in, it creates this really emotional portion of the film outside of that, looking at Rangers as a whole. And right before we hopped on this interview with you, you sent us a revised ending to the film that you decided to put in. And we both, we were messaging each other and we're like, wow, okay, we're crying. This is really emotional

and impactful. And you did a really wonderful job of showing how important Anton is. Is? still today to this entire mission. And when you decided to change the ending because it was different beforehand, why was it important for you to change the original ending to the film? Yeah, I mean, kind of like I said, you know, I think trying to find a way to make it real and emotional, but still, you know, Anton was was so hopeful in the midst of all of this. And I think that's something that stood out with all of the people we highlight in this film and that I've been connected to through this whole process is that, you know, in the midst of such a potentially hopeless cause in a lot of ways or just seemingly daunting and extremely complex issue, these men and women that are involved

in this work, whether it's Rangers or wildlife vets or scientists and researchers, whatever, you know, they have so much passion and love and hope for the future and support each other in so many ways. So I think, you know, it was a challenge because it's a balance of bringing in the harsh reality of what happened to Anton, but keeping some of that hopeful message. And so, yeah, I think what we ended up doing was basically highlighting what happened to him and his death. And then also this beautiful memorial that the Timavati put on honoring his legacy. And then also keeping sort of this hopeful ending that we had and trying to weave it in there with his vision for the future and what he thought could be possible if we worked together and inspire the youth in the next generation. So yeah, I think it's just

really important for people to see that reality, but also through this film, hopefully connect with that love and passion that people have so that they can come together and realize that there is hope. And if we work together, we can make a difference in the midst of all this craziness. Yeah. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting.

Watch only on Prime. We spoke to you, I think, through either email or social media that you are going to his memorial services. And just what was that experience like with connecting with his family? And obviously, Rangers and there are snippets of it in the film. But just what was like that like as, you know, a personal moment and for the context of the film, of course, but it was, it seemed heavy, you know, but also inspirational. The way that the movie is, the film is just presented, it's just like this braided experience of highs and lows and, you know, your heart goes out, but then you feel inspired, you want to cry and then you want to like do something about, you know, like you just did such an, you and your team did such an excellent job of really capturing not only

the hearts, but the attention of an audience. And Cassie and I just, I mean, we're riding the hive, but we just finished. Yeah, we literally just, yeah, ended it before this. So maybe we're just a little more like invigorated because of that. But yeah, it was just, I thought it was amazing. Yeah. And I mean, we'll talk more about this later too, but I can't wait to get this out in a larger away so people could go click on it and watch it right away. It'll be a little bit longer. But I think the last time we talked actually, I was like, you know, I think it's going to be out in the next few months. But after we decided to add this to it, it just kind of set us back almost another year, really. So the memorial in the film, I actually wasn't able to be there for that one. And I think the one we

talked about was maybe his grave unveiling, which I can talk about that because we ended up going back, where I ended up going back in March of this year for that ceremony. But yeah, he was killed on the 26th of July and the 31st was World Ranger Day. And I don't think I mentioned this in our last talk, but you know, we'd been sending WhatsApp messages back and forth. And actually the very last message Anton sent me, you know, I was talking about the film being almost done and, you know, wanting to be there soon and planning on bringing it so we could have a big screening with the Rangers. And, you know, my dream was always to have him there. And then Ruben and Marion, who were also featured in the film, the Ranger trainers, you know, get together and have a big party and share this film. And

and start to take it out to the world. And his response was, you know, John, I can't wait for you to come. You know, World Ranger Days in a few days. I wish you were here. We're going to, you know, fry some Impala and have a big grill and cookout barbecue and party and celebrate the Rangers and, you know, really wish you were here. And I think that was maybe a week or 10 days before he was killed. And a few days later was World Ranger Day. And, you know, little did we know that would actually be his memorial on that day. So, yeah, just kind of crazy going back in. and listening to some of those old messages. But from what I saw, luckily some people had their cell phones out and recaptured a lot of

this. And just a beautiful ceremony they put on for them there. That's his home reserve. You know, a lot of friends and family came from all around the region. And they had this amazing flyby with, I think, seven, you know, airplanes. Some of them were airplanes. Some of them were helicopters. And they did the blanking on the name, but where the one turns off, you know, kind of respecting

the person that you lost, one airplane turns off. off at the end. And so yeah, just such an amazing ceremony. I really wanted to be there, but I was in Atlanta at that time and Justin from our team at GCC and some of us in town were just all coming together to try and put together some kind of fundraiser to raise some funds for his kids. And we ended up starting the Anton Zimba Education Trust, Amit. And we raised so far 70,000. We're trying to get up to 100 to put his children through tertiary school, through university or whatever, you know, careers they want to go for. And then with whatever's left over, hopefully in this trust, we can create a scholarship to put other youth in the area through conservation education in

his honor. So we were all just going crazy trying to put that together while, you know, the memorials were happening in South Africa. So that's incredible, the work that you're doing, just collectively, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think for us, it was just like a way to, I mean, do you feel like you could do something in a time where you felt a bit helpless? Right, of course. And I think this is totally a side note, but just a little bit of uplifting. Because it's obviously heavy, but and how small the world is. And I think I talked to you about this.

But I heard someone in Golden Colorado. I was in a changing room trying something on. And I was overhearing a conversation of this, this like little random shop where I live. And I was like, God, it sounds like this woman is talking. about Anton, but I'm like, there's no way. Like, there's no way. What are the chances? You know what I mean? It's like this tiny shop and golden. I don't know anyone around here that knows anything. It's not like I'm in this community of like a lot of people who are familiar with, you know, Ryan Leman. It was right after kind of like our conversation. I don't know. I was just,

it was incredible. And I really wish I said something to her. But I was scared. I don't want to like pop my head out of the dressing room. Be like, hello? So you didn't confirm that they were No, oh yes, no, I did through John. Oh, okay. I'm pretty sure, right? Yeah. Didn't I message you? I think you and she both messaged and we're like, hey, do you know this person?

Because I think you said something to the cashier afterwards that you knew. I did. I did. And then she knew that she was working with our team at that time. And yeah, it was kind of a crazy, like it's a small world moment. Because I think she was shopping for something for Anton's Memorial. Oh, maybe. Yeah.

That's why she came with us. That's right. Yeah. because we had a big event and we could talk about that whole event in March because it was really special moment too. But yeah, she was there getting ready to come to South Africa. Yeah, I was like, there is no way. There's no way. What are the chances? Yeah, so I still need to connect with her because we've been talking, like we exchanged a couple emails because she's based in Colorado around where I am. Yeah, yeah. And just obviously we've been both traveling. But anyways,

yeah, I just couldn't believe it. I was like, she's talking about Anton. There's no other person that she could be referencing right now. But anyway, yeah, so I guess back to our conversation. So yeah, we have so much to cover, so much ground to cover because you have been here, there and everywhere for Anton, for Rhino Man, in personal reasons for the film, you're right off of your Jackson Wild trip. So what do you want to talk about first? Because we can really cover it all. I'd love to hear about Jackson Wilde because it sounds like you had a good time. We could jump into that now. So, yeah, I mean, we'll go back and I can talk about kind of of the six-week trip that I took right after I had our call last time because that was kind of

me going back to reconnect with the team and the family and everything. But, but yeah, just to kind of catch up to the now, the present, just got back at the end of this past week from the Jackson Wild Summit. It's an amazing event. I think originally it was the Jackson Wild Film Festival and then eventually morphed into the summit. Now they do all these amazing talks and panels around conservation and conservation filmmaking and screen some films and give awards out. And so we managed to raise the funds to bring the team from South Africa. So we had Anton's second in command, Orlat and Lovu, who, you know, he was kind of Anton's protege, a great friend of Anton's. He had to step up when Anton was killed and take leadership of the Timavati, which is just another epic

amazing guy. And he was there, Anton's cousin Leda and Kabella, who she is a black mama, which is an all-female ranger team, kind of in the area near where Anton operated. And then Ruben and Marianoan, the ranger trainers in the film, absolute legends in the conservation space and Ranger training. And then Matt and myself were there. So yeah, it was a pretty cool team. And we got to do a pre-screening event of Rhino Man in front of an audience there. And I think in terms of, you know, we've showed the film a fair amount of times in the last year and some different private settings. And just, you know, in terms of like the laughing and the gas and the cries, I feel like it was one of the most powerful screenings we've had this moment. So that was super

special and just had a lot of people come up and chat with us after and heard great things about how it impacted them. So yeah, in terms of a screening, it was a great experience. And then just met so many amazing filmmakers and conservationists and just lots of great connections that'll hopefully help us, you know, find our path to getting this out in a big way. So it was great for that. And then probably the highlight of the whole trip was, so David Fine and Rob Campbell from United for Wildlife, which when we go back to to my earlier trips, we could talk about how we got connected with them.

But they came out to support the film and also their projects with United for Wildlife. And David had some connections there through some friends, Scott and Kimberly and some people that he knew in the conservation space. And they put on this amazing expedition, if you want to call it that, into Yellowstone,

where they set us up with the Yellowstone Wolf Tracker team. Ah, amazing. Very cool. Yeah, it was so cool. I mean, so we were staying in the Grand Tetons, which is an epic place in itself. First time I'd ever been there. Those mountains on the horizon are just insane.

Some of the most iconic mountains in the world. That's Cassie's favorite park and Yellowstone's my favorite park. Yeah, I know, yeah. I was looking that up. I was like, hey, these are your two favorite places. And I can see why. I mean, just so beautiful. And so we like drove up into Yellowstone, got into a shuttle with the gang.

I think Nathan led the Yellowstone Wolf Tracker team. And, you know, we just started driving around. We saw some grizzly bears, tons of bison, elk. We did end up catching up with a wolf and they had some awesome spotting scopes. So we were able to track this wolf that was kind of running through some bison cruising around. And for me, that was like just such a cool experience to have Rubin, Marianne, Orlat and Leda, who'd never been to the U.S. before. And, you know, for Orlott and Leda, the Rangers in Kruger National Park to be able to take them to like one of our most iconic parks

and share that experience with them and see their faces as they're seeing this new wildlife for the first time. It was a ton of fun. and they were just able to relax and let loose, and we were just teasing each other and laughing and having a good time and just experiencing the beauty of Yellowstone in the fall, which is probably the best time of year. I mean, all the leaves were changing. It was so beautiful.

So, yeah, that was, it was an amazing week. I mean, we just connected with so many great people. The summit was awesome. And, yeah, just going into Yellowstone was beyond epic. It sounds like an amazing trip. I mean, I've been to Yellowstone a couple times, and I've never seen a wolf there. And I've never seen a grizzly bear there.

So to bring everyone there and you see, I feel like you got kind of the trifecta there with the bison, the elk, the grizzly, the wolves. It's just, it sounds like a very amazing trip. Yeah, it couldn't have been too much better. I mean, the wolf was, I mean, it was far off, but just to like get it in that spotting scope and be like, hey, I could see it. You can tell it's a wolf the way it's moving. And yeah, super cool.

That's very cool. in that you kind of alluded to some of the work and connections that you've done with the United for Wildlife Global Summit. And it's, I mean, we should definitely talk about it because you were invited to London to speak with Prince William and do a private screening of Rhino Man. So can you tell us about what that was like and if you feel like it made an impact on future conservation efforts? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think right around the time that we talked last, it was just after Anton was killed, and somebody from United for Wildlife had reached out,

and they saw that I had done a podcast on the Rhino Man podcast with Anton. And they're like, hey, could we share this podcast on our, you know, Twitter? We really want to support what's going on and finding justice for Anton. And he's just such an amazing guy. And so I was like, yeah, absolutely, please share it. By the way, we have a movie we've been working on for a long time. Don't know if you know.

Sneak that in that. By the way, there's this amazing movie. Yeah. And so, I mean, I guess, so back up a little bit more, right after Anton was killed that next day, Prince William on Twitter tweeted, you know, we need to find justice for Anton. He was just, you know, assassinated. And, you know, Rangers are going through this. And so we realized that there was a connection there.

And then when his team reached out, we just kind of started talking more and more. And they're like, so we're putting on our global summit in a couple months in London. Do you know anyone that could potentially? speak on Rangers because we really want to start highlighting the Rangers a bit more. Because traditionally they're more focused on bringing together, you know, people from finance, transport, law enforcement, NGOs working in the conservation space together from around the world to share information to essentially try to bring down these crime syndicates because, you know, it's one thing on the grounds where you're dealing with the poacher, but a lot of this is

driven by demand across the world for these animal products. And, you know, one of the best ways to stop them is to stop their bank accounts, you know, catch them when they're coming through ports and things like that and tried to bring down the syndicates at a higher level. So through Anton's loss, I think Prince William's connection, you know, to some of these rangers really made them want to focus on the people working on the front line. And so they were like, you know, do you know anyone in the space? And I was like, well, you know, through this podcast and film, like, I've been connected to a lot of people. So here are some of the people I would recommend and just kind of also threw in there. It was like, you know, we do have some clips from the film. We could share.

And so just kind of snowballed to where they put together, kind of like the highlight of the event was featuring the Rangers. And it ended up being Abby getting Irvin from Thin Green Line, UK. She spoke, Alton from the Southern African Wildlife College, which is heavily featured in the film. He came and spoke. And then myself and Matt kind of with that personal connection to Anton and our film with the Rangers. So, yeah, kind of just set us down this crazy path. And so for six weeks, I was like flying to Africa. I went to the African Ranger Congress where we showed the current cut of the film with some of the Rangers from around Africa.

And that was an amazing experience. Just got so many good, so much good feedback. And everyone was crying in those screenings too and just felt like, you know, the Rangers were being represented right. And I think for me, especially coming off of Anton's death, it was just nice to get confirmation that we were on the right path and that Rangers saw this as their film. And then from there, that was in Botswana and flew back to South Africa and then up to London where we did this talk. We got to meet Prince William, which was an amazing experience. When we met him, he's first thing, he was like, how's the Rangers doing? How's Anton's family?

How's the team there? What support can I do? And just really was engaged and wanted it to help, which was amazing to see. And then after that, we got to go upstairs. We met him in kind of the basement of the, I think it was the Science Museum in London. And, you know, we go upstairs. We sit down. It's like halfway through the day at this point.

And when we did lunch, there was no press in the room for the morning. sessions. We come upstairs and now the Prince William was there, all of a sudden, there's just press everywhere and we're like, now we're going to get to go up and speak in front of all these people. So, yeah, I feel like my biggest speech before this was like maybe a best man speech or something like that. So just throwing you right into it. Yeah. I think Matt and I were like dropping our water bottles because our hands were so sweaty that whole day and just like, oh my God. So nervous to get up there. But yeah, I think once once it all came together, we just prepared as much as we could and got up there. And I think we had a really strong talk and just explained

our connection to Anton and what had happened to him and what Rangers are going through, showed the then final scene of the film with Anton and his son. And yeah, it just made a big impact. And so many people came up afterwards. We wanted to know more. And we just started building this relationship with United for Wildlife. And they shortly after invited us to New York for their North America chapter opening where we did another little talk and showed some clips. And then from the, there we planned on doing a screening of the film at the Timbavadi in March. And we kind of lined up with Anton's family doing the unveiling of his grave site and his headstone. And essentially, it's like the end of his period of mourning. So six months after his death, they do a big

celebration to bring the period of mourning to an end. And so, yeah, we just went from like one place to the next. And it's been a crazy journey. The screening there was really beautiful. That was the first time we got to share it with his whole team and his family, which was extremely emotional. I think before we did the screening with United for Wildlife at the Timbovati, we did just a private screening for his family. So it was his dad, his wives, and some aunts and uncles. And yeah, that was probably the toughest screening we did. And we tried to prepare them as much as we could ahead of time. And Anton's cousin Leda, who I talked about, who came with us to United for the Jackson Wild Summit.

She kind of walked him through like here's, here's some of what's in this film, you know, trying to be as respectful as we can, but just knowing how emotional, you know, I can only imagine going through that trauma in real life and then having to experience it on screen. But they were all very eager to see it. And afterwards, you know, we had a nice chat with them all and they gave us their blessing to take this out into the world. So it was really, really special moment. That's amazing.

I mean, to have his family's blessing and loved ones be like, this is. beautiful and you've done such a good job must have just been a moment where it's like, okay, we did. We're doing the right thing here. Especially because, you know, anyone who has lost someone close to them, legacy work is a big part of grief and making it feel like, for lack of a better term, like it wasn't all for nothing type of thing, like being able to put, like, continue their name out through various different projects or efforts or even at the smallest scale, like a bench. You know, this is the legacy work that you guys are doing is like far and beyond anything that like I can do or anybody else. But like the movie in and of itself is a legacy

project in its own way. I know that wasn't its initial intent. But it kind of transformed into something like that. And obviously you spoke a little bit about the project you are doing as far as setting up a trust fund for his children because he has 11 children. Yeah. So big family. Big family. Is there any other projects that you're working on, dare I ask, about anything else that you're, I feel like you have a million hands going. Yeah, yeah, probably too many things. But yeah, I mean, for me, like I said, you know, once this all happened, it was just even more important for me as a friend on top of just the impact it'll have for Rangers, hopefully, to use his story as a way to bring more awareness and support. And so, yeah, like you said, we have the Anton Zimba Education Trust, which I think

if you go on our social platforms and click on the links there, that'll take you to a link tree that has all of these links. There's also a petition for Anton to find justice for Anton, which we already have over 100,000 people that have signed that. But still, and we can go into this in a bit, you know, there hasn't been much movement on this case and there's just so much corruption around this. So that's a part of all this work is trying to bring justice to, yeah, his killer. So there's that. You know, when I was meeting with his family, you know, we kind of, Well, originally we saw them shortly after the trip to London, and we just wanted to, you know, let them know how far and why this message is going

and what that experience with Prince William was like. And I remember his dad, you know, his dad was just in tears most of that time. And he said, you know, I knew I had a good son, but I just never could have imagined the impact he was having on the world and the influence he had. So to hear those stories for him was extremely special. And, you know, I think it was always important for us to just like make sure that the family is involved through this whole process because, you know, it's their son,

it's their father. And we want to make sure that they approve of everything that we're doing first. So, you know, we talked about what were we doing, but then once we got to show them the film and get that approval, that was amazing. And at that same time, this is another project that's kind of been put on the back burner temporarily just because this film takes so much time to work on and to get it out there. But I've been working with these two amazing artists in Australia, Gillian Mark, and they do a ton of work in the conservation space, creating all kinds of amazing bronze statues of wildlife and different characters. And I brought the story of Anton to them, and they were super inspired by it. So they've drafted up this beautiful life-size rendition of

Anton standing in front of a white rhino and hoping that we can eventually raise the funds for that. So if anyone's got 100K and is interested in sponsoring, you know, it can get you. We'll include a link Yeah, get your name in Oregon there. But ultimately, you know, we want to use this as a way to place him in a spot like London, potentially, where we have a lot of support. So when people are walking through the city, they're kind of confronted by, oh, there's these people out there protecting this wildlife. And they go through a lot of threats and dangers and just highlighting this amazing person that was one of many of these guardians of our planet and the work they do, hopefully inspire them to connect maybe to our social impact campaign or other ways to support. So yeah, that's kind of a project that is ongoing in the background along with the social impact campaign where we're hoping to raise 5 million plus as this film comes out to kind of create a pipeline for the next generation of Rangers. So it's, you know, Global Conservation Corps is now more focused on the youth.

So it's kind of our section of that is focused on inspiring the next generation and building that love for nature because if you don't love it, you're probably not going to connect with it or do anything about it. Right. And so it's inspiring them and then using, you know, the Southern African Wildlife College and Lead Ranger, which is a program of the Thin Green Line as kind of our key training groups to train that next generation of well-trained, supported, equipped Rangers to put out into the world. And finally, with Thin Green Line, they have a fallen Rangers fund to take care of the families of those Rangers that have been killed or died in the line of duty since there's really not that much insurance out there for many of them. and they're often the main breadwinners. So it's kind of creating this pipeline of the next generation of Rangers. And, you know, there's the emotional side of that, the kind of connection of these Rangers to their land that I think is important.

But then also, you know, there's so much talk about these global initiatives to protect 30% of the planet by 2030. But right now, we only have about 280,000 Rangers, which isn't really enough for what we currently have. And they say to effectively manage 30% of the planet, we need about 1.5 million Rangers. So we're like, nowhere close to what we need to do that. So hoping to use this film as a way to bring more awareness and real support to

kind of creating that next generation. So yeah, lots of things going into bringing this thing to life beyond just the film itself and supporting Rangers continuing Anton's legacy and just getting the word out there. Well, you're certainly making waves. I mean, it's a massive accomplishment. The people that you've gotten this out to and the film festival, Jackson Wilde is huge, being able to go to London and do what you've done. I mean, the film definitely sounds like it's making waves, which is really exciting. You mentioned the social impact

campaign, and I'm just curious, what does some of those initiatives look like in detail? Like you mentioned, inspiring others to care about the environment or creating more jobs for Rangers and getting people out. What does that look like? How do you do that? Yeah, so with Global Conservation Corps, you know, I don't remember if I told this story last time, but initially with Rhino Man and some of the media that we were creating, it was more about bringing more awareness and support directly to the Rangers. But then there's this moment and Matt talks about it a lot where in the film, Anton is holding this horn and he's talking about, you know, this is what we're out here protecting and, you know, kind of showing that this horn is just

basically a piece of compact hair, you know, explaining all that. But after that interview, he broke down to Matt and said, you know, what I'm really worried about is the, the fact that most of the people in these communities, especially the youth, have never seen the wildlife, even though they might only live a couple kilometers away from these reserves. And at that time, he said, you know, my children haven't even been in here to see the wildlife. And so if, you know, kids are growing up and not connected in any way to what's behind these fences, then, you know, they're not going to fight to support it, to protect it. They're not getting any benefit from it. So, you know, why care?

And I think that moment really shifted Matt's perspective on the work that he wanted to do and move that more from the Rangers directly to creating a way to bring those experiences and education to youth in that area. And so with GCC Future Rangers program, it's really about, you know, bringing in facilitators to educate students on conservation, especially local, you know, wildlife and animals. so that they know what's there, but then also creating these awesome experiences where they actually get to go on game drives in the reserves, probably for the first time for a lot of them. You know, one of the amazing groups that we've connected with is Karu camp, which has this amazing overnight camp where kids get a five-star experience and get to sleep out in the bush under the stars for a few days, you know, go out on game drives early in the morning and just before sundown and come together around the fire and talk about conservation and wildlife and even just like, you know, problems. having as kids growing up and being able to have those opportunities to open up and have support

in that way. So that kind of thing has been really amazing and just to see those changes with the kids and how inspired they are. So it's, you know, starting at that level, but then eventually creating opportunities for kids to get scholarships, jobs in that conservation space, and even just opening people's eyes up to all the different careers that you can have in that space. So you could be a ranger or a field guide, but you could also be a chef at a lodge, you could be a snake handler, you could be a helicopter pilot. There's all these jobs that a lot of the youth in that area typically aren't exposed to. So, you know, we've created this careers in conservation series, which is all in local languages by local production crew that goes and interviews and does little episodes on all these awesome people working in these different careers. So there's a lot that goes into it.

But yeah, it's all about generating that love for wildlife and conservation and creating pathway. for the local youth to actually have care of those spaces and find ways that communities can get more benefit from these spaces because, yeah, it's necessary. Otherwise, you know, like Anton was saying, and a lot of the Rangers say, we're just kind of fighting a slowly losing battle unless we change what's happening outside of the fence. I mean, that's kind of true with everything, you know, it's all with the kids. It really is. And so I think that it's amazing that there's such a focus, you know, on that because obviously

this is a multifaceted issue and to just kind of spread the focus into everything, like as far as what's going on on the ground, because obviously it's a dangerous job and that needs to be addressed and supported. But then obviously if, you know, the kids don't care about it or the next generation, there is no love or desire to kind of fill the shoes as they are growing up. What is it, you know, what's the longevity look like? So that's incredible. And it is kind of hinted at towards the And I mean, Cassie and I were kind of commenting just about how Anton's son had, you know, said that he wanted to be like his dad when he grew up. And even just that small little like blurb about that, it's just like, oh, God, it hits you right in the heart, you know? Yeah, it does.

Yeah. Yeah, that kid is a little ranger too. He's always jumping out of trees and breaking arms. Oh, God. He's a wild child, but yeah, most of his sons want to follow that. path and it's pretty incredible, especially after, you know, what happened to still want to do that and follow it. But I think it just goes to show the amount of love and respect Anton instilled in his kids for those natural spaces and the work he's doing. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like he inspired a lot of

people at work, friends, family. I can only imagine the type of inspiration he was spreading at home with his kids and what he was teaching them. And I can only imagine what they are inspired to do now because of him. Yeah, I mean, and we talked about it before, but that's really what's so special about Anton is he's just such a gentle heart and such a loving person. And this is for him, he says it again and again, but this is really a calling for him to be a ranger,

to protect nature. And on top of that, you know, as loving and as gentle as he is, he's ready to stand up and defend this wildlife against, you know, all odds. So, yeah, just a special human being and to be able to carry his legacy on in this way is, yeah, it's just an honor to have been connected to his life and this project. And you did mention just kind of briefly in passing that there hasn't really been any developments in his case, but there is a fund there going to help that effort push forward. So where does that

stand right now? Yeah, so there's not really a fund for the crime side. Exactly. It's more just a petition. But yeah, I mean, unfortunately in South Africa, there's quite a bit of corruption, especially within the police space and government in different ways. There's just so much money involved in a lot of these crimes. And it's really, I mean, we were just talking about it this past week with the gang from South Africa and some of the crazy things that have been happening there. And it really sounds almost like, you know, the cartels and parts of Mexico or like Columbia back in the cocaine days and, you know, just the wildlife crime is a part of it, but there's also, you know, cash in transit heists where they'll, you know, one of those big armored trucks

is driving down the road and all of a sudden 18 guys with machine guns show up and take them on and steal the money. And it's really, you know, the same thing. And there's a lot of infighting and back and forth and the police are pulled into it and corrupt. And so if you're someone like Anton that's trying to stand up for something good, it becomes very dangerous for you because you're willing to bend to that that corruption. So with his his case, it's just been kind of a slog as of right now. As far as I know, there could be movement happening. No one has been arrested. I think some of the positive things, it sounds like the case has been slowly moved from local police to the Hawks, which is kind of like the FBI in South Africa. And they do a lot better work and have,

you know, a lot more trustworthy people in those organizations. So I think things are happening, but it's a very slow process and on top of the corruption there's also just a lot of these cases so it's like you know you get a stack of murder cases and it just it makes it difficult to move through it when you're understaffed and half your team's corrupt so there's efforts going on we're hoping to use the film in ways to maybe put more pressure on different public officials or law enforcement in different ways to hopefully take action I think the petition if people will sign and share that the more names we can get, we can share it with some of these organizations as well and be like, hey, there's literally hundreds of thousands of people around the world that want to see something

happen because, you know, this does happen to a lot of different rangers around the world or even just law enforcement in general. And I think it's important, especially, you know, in our case in the Kruger area, to be able to say, hey, if you do this type of thing, there's going to be justice to pay. And right now it just gives these criminals, you know, free reign to do this and it kind of keeps the Rangers on edge when nothing happens. So I think it's important for them to be able to stand up and say, hey, you can't do this without consequences. Absolutely.

Yeah, it's really scary that this type of thing can happen and that there hasn't been a development. And I'm sure that that's really hard for the Rangers who are working, who are still out there every day, knowing that this hasn't been resolved and there hasn't been consequences and to have everyone band together and make sure that this doesn't keep happening. is so important. And especially important for future Rangers, too, for people who want to become Rangers who don't have to fear this.

Right, because that could be a big factor in somebody's decision because I think at the very beginning of the film, Prince William is speaking. And correct me if I'm wrong on the statistic, but I think he said 140 Rangers on average are killed or die in the line of duty and about half of them are through homicide. So it's just kind of like, that's a. staggering number. And of course, they take on the position and the role knowing the risks, just like was shown throughout the movie before Anton's death. They are very well aware of it and they speak about it a lot. And they kind of do their role in spite of that. You know, it's like,

I know the risks, but my heart is in this and this is my purpose. So that's inspiring. But it still doesn't take away from the very real, you know, possibility. You have a. You have a 50% chance of, you know, if you die in the line of duty that you're going to be killed because of what you're doing. You know, that's scary. So having the law enforcement side of it just kind of making people who are responsible for that, you know, have something done about it. And I know obviously it's very, very complicated, as you kind of just alluded to. But it's a hope and it would, I can only imagine what that would do for the positive. You know, if it's like, okay, if this happens, people are brought to justice, the amount of, you know, that statistic kind of pulling back and what that would do

for the influx of people like, okay, so I know my life is not as at risk anymore. And even if it is, like, people are going to be brought to justice, things are going to happen. Like, how many more people would want to be involved? Yeah, I think that's extremely important because, you know, as much as GCC is focused on inspiring the next generation of conservationists, you know, I mean, and there's a lot of different occupations outside of just being a ranger. But, you know, to meet that call for another, you know, million rangers to protect our world, we need to make it a job where, A, you're actually compensated in a way that makes sense for the type of work you're doing. You have that support.

There are consequences for people doing these things because, like you said, in a lot of areas, it's extremely dangerous. And it's, I mean, I think that's what's incredible for me, meeting a lot of these men and women that are doing this work is in spite of, of the lack of good pay and the dangers to their lives. Yeah, there's a lot of people like Anton that are just extremely passionate about this. But just because of that passion, they shouldn't be taken advantage of in a way that allows them to be paid so little in so many cases. And we need to find ways to come together. Yeah, I mean, I think to Prince William and United for Wildlife's credit, that's a big part of the impact of Anton's story for them is that bringing that human element to what a lot of these organizations are doing to stop illegal wildlife trade around the world

really drives home the importance of their work, whether they're sitting in a bank, you know, flagging some kind of illicit movement of funds or working at an airport and capturing, you know, some of this illegal wildlife trade. I think it just drives home the importance of that work and stopping these syndicates because, you know, these men and women on the ground can't do this on their own. and they only have so much reach. You know, it's more regional in their immediate area that they can have an effect. But some of these organizations around the world, it could be banks, it could be airports, it could be law enforcement working together internationally, can bring down a lot of these big crime

syndicates in a way that has impact on those people on the ground. Because, you know, you see the death and destruction of the wildlife, which is hard enough to see. And we show some of that in the film. But when it's someone like Anton that's killed because they're trying to protect this wildlife, It just, yeah, I think for me at least, it makes it so much more powerful and urgent to step up and do something about it. And one more thing just with United for Wildlife and Prince William, you know, he did give us an intro that we're able to share with festivals. So we were able to use that for our pre-screening at the Jackson Wilde event.

And then I don't think I mentioned this, but after that screening at the Timbavati in March, we came together with United for Wildlife. And they put on an amazing screening. It was a private screening with the United for Wildlife. Life Network in London at the Battersea, which is this awesome cinema inside this old power station and got to have Orlat and Leda and Ruben and Mariana and all those guys come over as well and a lot of the film team. And it was just really amazing experience and moment for us as a team, but then just to be able to share that story with that really prestigious network of people that are doing this work around the world. It was an awesome opportunity and just can't thank

them enough for giving that opportunity for us and for all the support that they've given and helping us bring this film to the world. And it just goes to show how much impact Anton's having on people, you know, when someone, it's pretty rare to get someone like Prince William to have the time to sit down and watch a film and to get behind something like that. And, you know, the whole team has put in a ton of work for this. But really, I think it comes back to Anton and who he is as a person, what he's done. And that's why so many people have been inspired to help us move this thing forward. Yeah. And your film is certainly a driving force behind. inspiring people. And the first step to making people care is making people care with

with Anton's story, with things like that and seeing a film that's so impactful that you have all created and seeing how invested Anton is. It's inspiring. And as this film spreads and more people see it, that's, I truly believe, when real steps are going to be taken because people are going to start caring. And I think that Anton's very inspiring. and all of you guys are also very inspiring to put this together in such a time of grief and sadness, but to be able to create something so beautiful out of it and to be working towards such a powerful goal is amazing. So congratulations to all of you guys for being able to do all this. It's huge.

What you guys are doing is it really is. It's a really big accomplishment. Thank you, Cassie. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess just going off of that, you have been showing the film and it's making waves and places. Do you have any upcoming events where it's going to be shown again? So we don't have any scheduled yet, but we've been entering into a lot of film festivals. So that's our current strategy is to try to get it out through the festival circuit. Jackson was kind of our first screening in that realm. So we've got that happening. There could be some private screenings here and there. So people might find out locally if we do something like that more in line with the organization. to try and raise funds for these causes. But yeah, it's a process.

So we'll let people know as soon as we get more screenings lined up. And ultimately, you know, we're trying to find the best pathway through distributing this film so that people can see it online in their homes. And I mean, the Jackson Wild Summit, we went to some amazing talks. And sadly, right now, it sounds like the feature documentary world, it's like the worst time to get distribution. Oh, no. In the history of feature docs. It's just a lot of industry things and where money is being put.

But I think we also had some great conversations that gave us ideas for creative ways to get it out there. So whether that's partnering with someone or doing a bit of self-distribution and using a lot of these alternative platforms, we're definitely planning on getting it out there in the coming months as we go through this festival circuit. because it's been such a struggle because we wanted to get this thing out, you know, years ago. And for the cause, it just feels like, you know, it's always urgent. You want to bring more awareness as quickly as possible. But it's also trying to balance that with doing it in a way that in the end has the furthest reach. So, yeah, it's, sorry it's not out yet, but, you know, I think the best thing right now is just to follow us online on social.

Instagram's probably the best. Rhino Man the Movie. Rhinomandemovie.org is our website. And then I've been doing a podcast with people in the space of Rangers, Rhinos, community engagement, conservation, the Rino Man podcast on all the platform. So taking a little hiatus right now. But yeah, there's just so many more amazing stories of people doing this work trying to highlight them as we get this thing out there. So yeah, stick with us. It's going to be available hopefully very soon.

And as soon as another screening pops up, we'll start talking about it. Perfect. Good things take time. That's right. We're excited. We can't wait to see where this film goes. And when it comes out, I'm sure whatever platform you end up using and however it's done is going to be done the way that you want it to be, which is the most important. So we're all we're all hanging out waiting.

Yep. We'll be here. We'll be here. We'll be here. Thank you both. Yeah. Perfect. So for everyone who wants to follow along with your journey, obviously you just said through socials is the best way.

And of course, we'll link that in the show description as well as. the different avenues of, you know, different projects that you're working on where people can get involved, sign petitions, donate funds. All of that will be accessible in the show description. And of course, you have a website as well. So you have socials, the podcast, website. We got different links to funds going on. So we'll make sure that everyone has access to everything that you're working on and everything Rhino Man in that world going on. And hopefully if there's a screening going on in the near future that we could attend we would love to. I know that you were like, come to Jackson Wild, but we were just, where were we Boston?

I think so, yeah. We had a live show in Boston that day. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. All right, yeah. So we missed on that one, but let us know. There will be more. There will be more. Awesome. We'd love to come at some point. The schedules line up. We will happily. That would be so cool. Yeah, to see you both there. Yeah. Me in person. Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. again. I know that was a lot of ground to cover, but you had a lot of exciting updates and like we said, we'll be waiting and happy to announce when Rino Man, the movie, is available for a larger audience. We'll shout it from the rooftops the best we can for you. Sure well. Yeah, appreciate you both,

Daniel and Cassie. Thank you so much for all you're doing and it's always an honor to come on here. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure we'll talk to you soon. So in the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch your back. Bye everyone. Bye. Cheers. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion,

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