National Park After Dark - Cheers to Five NPAD Years

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

Take a stroll down memory lane as we reflect on the last five years of NPAD. Come laugh with us (and at us) while we look back on some of the memorable moments that brought us to where we are today. For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners!Naked Wines: To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to NakedWines.com/NPAD and use code NPAD for both the code AND PASSWORD.Coyuchi: Get 15% off your first order when you visit Coyuchi.com/npad.3 Day Blinds: For their buy 1 get 1 50% off deal, head to 3DayBlinds.com/NPAD.MILL: Try Mill risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at mill.com/NPAD and use code NPAD at checkout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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slash Visit Scotland Welcome back to National Park After Dark, everybody. Today is a very exciting episode because it is our five-year anniversary of National Park After Dark. And today we have a special episode because we are going to take a walk down memory lane. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. If you are new to the podcast, my name is Cassie. And I'm Danielle.

And what an episode to start on. Good for you. You're going to get caught up real quick. It's actually perfect. Yeah, you'll know every single thing we've done for the past. five years because it's crazy to think about. But we started this podcast. Our first episode ever aired on January 21st, January 25th, sorry, 2021. And now we're in 2006 and we're five years old. A whole five. I know. Time really flies when you're traveling the world and being as busy as possible

and having life changes and all of that fun stuff. It's been quite the ride for sure. sure has and for this episode we wanted to do something special and ask you guys what some of your favorite parts of the podcast have been over the past five years and we asked that on social media but we also asked our Patreon members and you guys came up with a lot of good stuff and uh some of your answers i was like oh my god i remember i forgot that and now now i remember so uh this will be a fun episode where we get to dive into some old, some old things. And also we're going to be going through like you guys always have a lot of similar questions that to us, it feels like, we feel like we've answered that before, but apparently not because we get the question

all the time. So we're going to go through and do some of the biggest, most frequently asked questions. And then also just some fun ones that people are just dying to know. So we'll get to people's questions too and go over some fun moments and embarrassing moments and things I wish never happened. But yeah, we're going to talk about again. So yeah, let's get into it. And I think, I think the first, I think the first question that we'll get into that we get this all the time and we've answered many times, but I think that unless you're paying attention in certain spots, you may have never heard before. And that is, what is our origin story? How did we start the podcast? Yeah. Perfect question. So long story short.

Cassie and I were veterinary technicians when we first met. We were working at an animal hospital in southern New Hampshire. And we quickly became, you know, close coworkers, turned friends. And we would just spend a lot of time outdoors together and shooting the shit outside and hiking in the white mountains. And when I decided to move to Washington was right around the same time, Cassie was deciding to move out to Vermont. And when that happened, we decided to just, keep our chats going that we were already having amongst each other into a podcast format, largely spurred on from like the trip that I took to Washington with my late partner, Ian, because we were staying at, you know, BLM lands and national parks.

And we took the long scenic route throughout the country over a few weeks. And I was texting Cassie a lot about stories or things that I was finding along the way that I thought she would find interesting. So by the time I wound up in Washington, I think it was Halloween Day of 2020, because I think I have receipts in our text. I think so too. I think I remember that. I'm pretty sure it was Halloween Day of 2020 is when I formally kind of threw out the idea of creating a show loosely based on this format. So I think that's when like the first real spark started. But of course, we didn't get our act together until January. whatever 25th of 2021, which is actually kind of a quick turnaround now that I think about it.

Yeah, because we started in October. I remember you pitch this idea to me. And I was like, all right, this is no idea what I'm doing. And we're like, I remember us going back and forth with creative ideas, but then also logistical ideas of how do we, how do we plug in a microphone? Oh my God. Don't even talk to me, but my snowball yety microphone from Walmart or Target or wherever it was. I remember mine was $25. It plugged into my computer. And if you're not a tech person, that is not how it's done. How it's done at all. No, sure isn't. And is the reason why a lot of our first episodes sound like we are underwater. And we just didn't have any setup. But we knowledge. Or knowledge. We truly started this from scratch. There was never a production team behind us.

There was no one. We didn't go to school for this. We just kind of had this idea. And fun fact, if you didn't know this about the podcast, too, is when we first started National Park After Dark, we thought that this was going to be a strictly true crime show. Oh, yeah. For the first solid, like three episodes, I think we were. And we also toyed around with doing two stories an episode. Yes. The first few episodes, if you listen back to those ones, both of us tell a story each episode. And quickly we were like, that. This is so much work. We're going to run out a story so fast, too. And also, we realized, too, we couldn't do the deep dives that we wanted because if we were both telling the story, it took up a lot more time. So we kind of found our footing and our format as we went with that one. Which goes into another question, do we still work as vet techs? The answer is no. Absolutely not. No shade to vet text is my personal experience. I was burnt out. And I think any person in the vet field can understand that. So I loved my time there. But it was time for me to go for sure. Yeah.

There just wasn't enough time in the day to do both well. So when this started to gain traction and was proving to be something that we should pursue seriously, that's when the decision was made. Yeah. Yeah. So that answers that question. And then kind of going into the start of the episodes, you know, one of the first things you hear is our guitar intro. And many, many people know this. So I'll keep it short. But that intro is created by my late partner, Ian. We approached him immediately to create a intro song for us. We knew kind of right away he was such a talented musician that we could kind of describe what we were hoping.

to capture in a 15 second snippet that's going to really do the heavy lifting, especially early on to get people interested in what the show was going to be about. And he took it super seriously. He gave us a, I mean, at least a dozen different versions to pick from, which I couldn't really tell the difference on a lot of them, but to a trained, you know, guitarist's ear probably. It would be like slightly different. It was so funny because he was such a perfectionist about it. Yeah.

Because he sent so many of them and he'd be like, okay, which one? And you'd hear like one note that was slightly different than the other and he'd be like, what do you mean? Which one? I know, like, babe, but we did. It's going to be great either way. And this is good. And also, I was thinking about this today.

He did one other thing for us, like musically wise for the show. When you did the Salem Maritime episode, he did. A guitar version of the hocus pocus, like come little children. I forgot about that. Yeah. Oh my God. So that's there too. That was so nice of him.

He was very happy to do that. So yeah, we basically were like, hey, we want something that sounds spooky but also can't be intriguing, but also. scary and ominous. Yes. We're like all of these things, but also remember one of the reasons we approached him to do this was because we were looking for music and there were so many copyright infringement things. And we're like, Ian, we don't want to go to jail. Like, please. Save us from prison. It's like, we don't know how to air this without being sued. Can you please make us something? And yeah, he hopped right on it. Hey everybody, welcome to National Park After Dark.

This is the man behind our intro right here. Yeah, don't talk out just, yeah, this is Ian. All right, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Jazz clap. That was great. Thank you. And he was always very proud to play it.

He did that for us on our first, like we did a Moment House live stream when COVID was a thing and that was like you couldn't go anywhere for. to attend live shows in the way we do now and before. So he went with us and did it live. That one time he was so happy. He was like, because there was a live chat function of that show. And he had like his mustache and people were like, oh, Ian with the mustache. And he's so cute. And he was so happy. He was beaming. He said, the people love me. He's like, I'm a star. Like, thank you for your 20 seconds. It was much appreciated. He did do great. He did. He did.

National Park. Okay, first, right off the bat, this is your time to shine. Because we get this question a lot, okay? This is a much anticipated question that we've never fully answered before. This has nothing to do with our content, but everything to do with one of the hosts. What is your skincare routine? Brands products, I know there must be a red light mask involved. Yes.

is. I feel like this is to both of us because we both have pretty strong skincare routines, but I definitely hone into it a little bit more. Great question. I will say for brands and stuff, you actually inspired me to try a skincare brand that I hadn't tried before. And that was, is it Zoe or Zio skin care? I think it's Zo. Yeah, I use their cleanser and I use their exfoliating cleanser, I really like it. And that is one that you recommended. I also like skin suiticles. They have a lot of good serums that I like to use and skin medica. Skin suiticles and skin medica have a lot of good different serums. And I like under eye care stuff. So that's good. But honestly, my big- Well, hold on. Before you go into your actual like going to the med spa situation.

Okay, so I am, I've done the skin suiticles thing before, like for years, and then I switched over to the Zio-Zo-Zo skincare stuff maybe about a year and a half ago. So my whole routine is zo skin. But Cassie's so funny because, and I do a red light at home like a few times a week. Cassie is so serious about her skin care. We will be in the jungles of Borneo, okay? I'm getting dengue fever. I'm dying. Like we're in the thick. There's monkeys trying to get into our room. You know, there's anacondas dripping from the trees. And Cassie has her portable under eye red light. Oh, I almost forgot about that. That's my like pride and joy. For travel. And she's like, I just, I have to do this every day.

Skin care has no boundaries. It's crazy. I do. I have and I don't know. the name of it, which I probably should have looked up before. But it's basically this handheld red light and it has blue light and green light. Blue light is for acne. And green light is for like regenerative cells or something. I don't know. But because I just do the red light mostly. But it is this vibrating handheld device. It's like a guasha, but it's electric. And it helps get, it's like a lymphatic drainage for your skin, which is awesome. And I really like it. And especially when I'm traveling or suddenly I'm at high elevation and I'll notice I'm puffier than normal. It like gets

all of that out. And I feel like way better. So that is. Yeah, she always gets up in the morning before I do on trips and goes to bed after me. And so I always joke that she's a vampire. She's never seen me sleep. I've never seen her sleep. But I'll know like when I get up in the morning if she's not in her. her bed next to me. I'll hear the little, like, because it'll do this little chime thing when it's time to move on to a new section of your face. Just we'll hear that going off. I'm like, there she goes. She's thriving. Okay, sorry, go ahead. You can finish up with your other. All of that is great, but honestly, I do, like, in terms of actually stuff that makes my skin look nice, is I do a lot of stuff at the med spa and probably the biggest ones that I've done have been microneedling,

with radio frequency. I've specifically done Morpheus 8, which I really, really liked. And then I've also done laser resurfacing. And those are the two things for my skin in particular that I found have been really helpful. There you go. You heard it here first. Yeah. Just because you're outdoorsy doesn't mean you can't have good skin. We walk the line pretty good, I think. We do it. We do it all. What can't we do? What is it? People say I'm high maintenance to be low maintenance. Is that the same?

I think. I think that's the thing. But you do all these high maintenance things. So day to day you feel. Yeah, like I don't put makeup on every day or anything. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Like, I don't really wear makeup that much. Yeah, I wear tinted moisturizer or sunscreen.

Yeah. But my skincare routine is out of this world. Right. Very high maintenance. Well, speaking of phrases, we have had a couple of our own. Sure have. We've coined over the years by accident. And I think that they really peaked a couple years ago, and a lot of them have kind of fizzled out.

And every once in a while, we'll get some come through. And, of course, OG people know. But we, the first one that comes to mind is, I think something you came. This wasn't me. I don't think. I think it was me too. It was definitely you. Moose aren't real.

Moose aren't real. And I stand by that to this day. It stuck for a reason. And it's because people believe it. Moose aren't real because moose aren't real. It wasn't a moose. Of course it wasn't. Because moose aren't real.

It's kind of like what was the other thing people are saying pigeons aren't real? Oh, yeah. They're spies or spies, whatever. Yeah. Do you know the origin story of this? I believe it came from a trail tale and I believe that people were talking about trying to see a moose and didn't. And I was like, that's because moose aren't real. I've never seen one in New England.

Yeah, that was something I've been saying because I've never seen a moose in New England. And that is still true three years after the podcast has started. So moose are still not real. Took a life of its own because people kept writing in trailtale saying moose aren't real. Moose aren't real. And I will say one of the questions we get a lot is also, is there going to be a Moose Aren't Real merch launch again? We get that one all the time because Moose aren't real. The answers, yes.

Yes. Just so you know. New and improved. New and improved. Yeah. There are some merch items that. Oh, my God. The OG merch items.

Hold on a minute. Okay. Okay. We used to hand do our own merch Okay, hold on the meeting I'm gonna I will take after this is done I'll splice in a little

Once I get we're actually done this episode And I can go and get it and come back We'll splice in a little clip of this Because you got to see it I was just thinking about it So in I have a bunch of Ian's things still With me And

some of them I wear, but others are just packed away. And one of those items includes one of our very first hoodies that we made on Canva. Okay. Is it the helicopter one? No. My mom has that. It's the one that we just, it's so embarrassing. These are like collectors items. If you have these hold tight to them. They're worth millions now, they say. It's word on the street is legend has it. They're worth. A lot. It's so funny. It's like we literally just took a picture of a cartoon like redwood tree and put another cartoon of a skeleton laying up against the tree. I made that. I know you did. I was so proud. Here's the sweatshirt still on its original hanger. It's a little wrinkly. Hopefully we can zoom in on this logo done by Cassie. And then four. here it is in all its glory yeah there's not much to be said about this honestly you just you just have to look at it but you'll look at it i mean god bless ian for walking around with this proudly not thinking a thing of it and being like yeah my girl that's a podcast and um you should listen to it and ian was proud to wear it and he did a lot um i appreciate him for that But it's so embarrassing. What have we been doing the past five years?

Who let us do that? Who let us do most of this? I don't know. Thank you, everyone. But yeah, unwavering support. But so the moose aren't real. We did have an actual killer merch design for that, which we really loved. But for a lot of reasons, we do not use anymore.

But we're making it new, shiny, and... Burry vamping. it better and it's coming soon so now you understand where the moose aren't real because if you're new and you're like oh yeah new merch and then you're like moose aren't real what the fuck does that stupid idiots moose are real it's like no they're not first yeah for those who get it got it okay next was another one all you yeah this one i think also came from my trail tales and it was I responded to a trailtales and I said, you got haunted. I can already hear Cassie saying, you got haunted.

You did get haunted. Consensus, you got haunted. You got haunted for sure. As Cassie would say, you got haunted. You infamously have said that. Yeah. Because they did have a paranormal experience of some kind. They got haunted for sure.

Yeah. So that one's pretty self-explanatory. But again, with the merch, we really like that one. I love that design. That was fun. It was a fun design. It's a ghost park ranger for people who do not know. He's floating above his little boots.

He has a little stutzen hat on. Yeah, it's cute. So yeah, you got haunted, kind of has gone down in history. And then another one that we don't say super often anymore, but we got a huge influx of emails about. I know this was me. I don't know where it came from. I know the era in which it came about. But take the trip.

It was all about encouraging people to not put off spending time with their loved ones and going somewhere that they really want to experience together because you never know what's going to happen in life, either within your own life or those that you love and cherish. So to just take the trip, you know, just go for it. I loved that one because I just really appreciate the sentiment behind it. And I know the other ones are kind of stupid. They're so funny, though. And funny, but that one is just like the most heartfelt. And I feel like people really resonated with that one, as did I. Yeah. Well, thank you. So those are kind of our top three. If you, I mean, I would love to know wherever you're listening, however you interact with us, whether it's on Instagram comments or like YouTube comments or whatever, I would, if we're missing anything that's glaringly obvious, please tell us. Because like I've said before, I'm really not lying. I forget 90% of things that have happened to me over the last like three or four years.

So please remind us if we've missed anything. So good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store. for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Yeah. And our next ones that I thought would be

fun to put together is when we asked our Patreon members what some of their favorite moments were throughout the past five years, one of our Patreon members put together a few quotes that we've said, and I thought it would be fun to try to guess which one of us said each of these things. Okay. So are you going to read them? Yeah. out loud and then we have to guess. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.

The first one was we abducted a Boy Scout this weekend. Oh, that was me because I remember that. Yeah. Because we did do that. We wait for this kid to, because he's like, I'm going to go in my pants. Like I just have to go. So he like, we waited for this random kid to go off the trail, take care of business and whatever way he did, which I feel like was not in the right way, comes back. We have to

hike with him another mile and a half back to the parking lot. And then we're like, what do we do with you? Because now you just stole a Boy Scout. We abducted a Boy Scout this weekend. And we could have, if we had ill intentions, he would have been a goner. He told us everything about him, where he lived, what his family did. He was ready to go. He was ready to go with us wherever, wherever blindly just followed us. I was like, hey, so next time I know that we helped you out, I think, but just next time, don't just go with strangers because it could end up really bad. And he was like, okay, whatever. And then we just didn't care. Yeah, didn't care. But we pawned him off on a on a ranger. So whoever that is, thank you so much,

because I had no idea what I was about to do. Hopefully that went over well, but hopefully it was And I often learned as well for that. What an interesting trips to the ape caves. I'm sure you didn't expect to be doing half of it with a 10-year-old. I know. The next one, I don't know. The next one says, okay, so attack, then deep throat. Okay, I'm going to be honest.

That feels like me because I would mention deep throating. Yeah. I'm guessing you as well. I have no idea when I said that. Apparently in episode 299. Oh, that feels recent. It was recent. Wait, what's episode 299?

I don't know. Play the clip. I guess we'll find it. Roll the tape. Trish's rifle fired twice and actually went down the Moore Tiger's throat all the way to the handle. So that's how close it was. It was literally jumping on him and he was firing at it and it was like full mouth coming at him. It's like deep-throated that gun.

Yeah. Holy shit. It landed on the gun. Okay, so attack, deep throat, deep throat. Memories. And the next one is, it seems like we had a lot of quotes in one particular episode, and that was in Trail Tales 80. And the first quote was, people who wear white pants have it together. I feel like that was you, but I also agree with that. See, I feel like it was you, but I also agree with that. Okay. Okay. Either of us could have said that one. Well, yeah. World of how this is going to go. And I never wore them and I ended up donating them.

I have like one picture in college where I'm wearing white pants though and I can- Because you were afraid of your period? Or you just didn't wear them? I just, no, I just don't wear white pants because they're not practical at all. Like, you know what you, every, You don't always sit on clean surfaces and you eat and just white pants don't make any sense. Yeah. Whenever I see someone in a white pant, I'm like, oh, they have their life together. Yeah. You have to have your life together to wear white pants.

The next one is life mantra, one ravioli at a time. Oh, that was me. It sounds like you, but I don't remember it. I'm, no. No. No. Maybe it was you. I remember talking about eating raviolis. I feel like it was you. No, I think this was you. Like mantra, one ravioli at a time. Because I was talking about how I ate them too quick or something.

And I think you were like, slow down. One ravioli at that time. I feel like it was you. I was like scraping the sauce. Like I was done. He was like, he didn't even have one slice down. Like it was just, I'm like, I'm so sorry. And then it was weird because he was alone eating.

Right. And I didn't know where to look. I'm like, I should have just taken this one ravioli at a time. Like, and then put down my fork. It's like the same thing. That's the life mantra. One ravioli at a time. The next one, same episode, Trail 80.

Oh, we were on fire. Yeah. Well, depending on what this is. We're hilarious. This is, I'm trying to commit a crime. Can you please leave? not a good time. That's you. I feel like that might have been me too. Yeah. I remember that. I do remember the story

because it was recent. Couldn't remember who told it, though. Ten minutes down the road that it hit me, that guy had totally been robbing the place. And somehow, through sheer confusion, his and mine, I just walked right back out. I can't stop thinking about whoever. I don't. I don't. And this building is closed. I'm trying to commit a crime. Like, please leave. It's not a great time. It all mashes together.

Yeah. We read so many trail tales and have so many stories. Yeah. We certainly do. Well, speaking of trail tales, let's kind of go down that lane because they're one of the best parts. I mean, I'm so glad we started them when we did. We kind of kicked off the show with them. them pretty much right away. They've taken shape and, you know, over time of kind of like the

style in which people send them in and all of that. But I really love trail tales because we get to hear directly from people. And honestly, I kind of get sick of us. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's nice to hear someone else telling us a story because we're so used to researching and telling the stories themselves. But to hear your real life experiences and you guys writing them in is definitely one of my favorite parts of the show. And you guys, you guys throw in some wild, some wild things from embarrassing to exciting, inspiring, sad, hilarious, really like deep, meaningful, personal things. Like, you guys trust us with your deepest, darkest stories. And And your lighthearted ones too. And we just love to hear them. And they make us feel like we have friends. And I know that when we read them, they make you guys feel like you have friends in the community too, which you do. And I think Trail Tales has really helped build our NPAD community.

Yeah. And it really goes to show how multifaceted and honestly how cool our community is. Because when we're reading through them, we're like, we can't believe this person did this. experienced that or went here or there or, you know, and it's just we only have so much life experience and things that have happened to us that we could talk in circles about for the next five years, you know? And it's like we need this influx of different perspectives and things. So it's really nice that you guys keep writing in and keep it up. We have favorites, of course, because some have stood out above the rest for all these reasons. For sure. And when we were asking questions, it was, it was nice because on Patreon, when we were like, what were some of your favorite parts? We actually had two Patreon members who wrote in their own trail tales about how they found us. So we thought it would be fun to read those trail tales of what they said of how they found NPAD. Okay. You go first.

Okay. Mine is from Elizabeth. And they wrote, five years deserve celebration for my favorite podcast. in existence. I think it's a good time to share some backstory. My husband and I grew up together, rode the same bus since middle school, and didn't get together until after college. When we did finally admit feelings and make it official, we fell in love fast. Now you might be wondering, what does this have to do with NPAD? When we were falling in love, we also daydreamed about national park trips we would take in the future. We almost high-tailed it for Yellowstone anyway, but living in the Midwest makes it difficult to get to the major national parks out west. So with an unexpected pregnancy, we put our dream national parks on the back burner.

Fast forward nearly eight years. We have a six-year-old and a four-year-old who is born the same year as NPAD, 2021. Happy birthday. And life is busy, but one thing our kids sadly know is how much we love national parks and forest, trees, animals, cryptids, and conservation. My kids even know how much I love National Park After Dark, crying, laughing face. Three years ago, we started planning for Shannandoah National Park for my 30th birthday. I was searching for an informative Shannon Doa podcast to learn more about the area, and lo and behold stumbled upon National Park After Dark's very first episode.

I was hooked immediately, and the rest is truly history. I've been a fan ever since and tell everyone I can about the podcast. We still haven't made it out west, but I trust that we will. Our goal is to have some sort of camper and be ready to take our first big family trip by the time our oldest is in fourth grade and for the fourth grade National Park Pass. Strategic. He says he wants to be a scientist and park ranger when he grows up and honestly, me too, L.O. We have a scratch off map hanging up in our home that allows us to scratch off states and national parks. We've made it to four as a family, the Midwest ones.

We've listened to Don Fenler's story here together as well. The stories in this community keep me inspired. Over the years, my passion has grown for conservation and protecting these beautiful parks. You have all played a huge role in that. Thank you for keeping hope alive. I know one day we'll make it to the dream parks. Thank you, Danielle and Cassie for creating this community, sharing important history, beautiful and frightening stories, sometimes within the same episode, and for sharing your own stories as well. What you guys do here is amazing.

Thank you. Thank you. Wow, that's so nice. It's really nice. And that reminded me a little bit of just kind of like insider secret. The very first episode is, I'm pretty sure, and correct me if I'm wrong, the only one we've ever re-recorded. Yeah, it is. And we didn't even re-record it much later.

It was like within weeks, I think, or even days. Really? I thought it was like a year later. Was it? No, because I remember, yeah, because I remember for that people, so we were seeing that when people look for our podcast, they listen to that one first. Right. And we listened back. And this is when our catalog was very small. Like, it's not like if you're going to come across a podcast right now. It could have been earlier than I'm thinking. That has 300 episodes. Not everyone's going to be like, oh, there's 300 episodes, but I'm going to the very first one. Like, and God bless if you do. And you're like a. you have to do it in chronological order. But at least speaking for myself, I'll kind of filter through and be like, oh, what's an eye-catching title or whatever? But back when we only had a handful of episodes, everyone started at episode one. You know what I mean? And there was two problems with it.

Well, there's probably a lot of problems with it. But there was two that really were the driving forces of us re-recording it. The quality doesn't count because our quality was the same for like the first 50. But it was number one because we, and by we, I mean, I, Danielle Lorak, swore so much. I did too, though. I listened back and I remember I also did. No, really? I'm taking back by that, actually. Not as much as you, but in just casual conversation, we were talking and we were both dropping F-bombs. And we listened back and we were like, okay, that's a little excessive, especially for someone's first episode to getting to know us. Yeah.

And, you know, I've heard other creators speak about this as well, especially in the very beginning and getting your footing and not really knowing how to present a story or to be in this medium is swearing, aside from just being a part of who you are. But when you're doing it that excessively, it's to fill space, you know, and to also be when you're struggling to find descriptors or other ways of saying things. They're filler words. It's a very easy. Like.

Oh, yeah. It's another thing we try and dial back on that. Not successfully. Drink every time you hear a say like. No, please don't. For your health and well-being, don't. But yeah, so those were kind of that. And there was another thing.

Oh, we kind of were like, which. Okay, for the swearing thing, I've said it before a million times. I really have tried to stop or at least cut back and dial it back when on the show. And I think I've done a pretty good job of that compared to the first, the very beginning. So it's just funny when, you know, she's writing in about how her young family listens. I'm like, oh, please, I'm so sorry for swearing so much. But the other thing. thing is that people were upset about other than us saying fuck a million times was we blamed men for every murder that ever happened. That hasn't changed that much, but we were very bold about it and kind of used it as a blanket statement. We don't think all men murder women. Right. We do. And that's a fact. And that's a fact. And that's a fact. But anyway, so, We were kind of like reflecting. We're like, okay, for our very first episode, maybe we should try.

And like, we didn't edit for, we didn't change any of the content of what we were saying. It was just the way in which it was delivered. Everything else. And this is sparking like an old memory that I'm not sure I've ever told you. Oh, no. Is one of my first memories of you. Have I said this to you before? No.

One of my first memories of you is I was, I came to. our vet hospital and I was there for a working interview and you were doing a dental and one of the first things that I remember hearing you say was so I don't remember exactly what you said but I remember you said fuck like three times in one sentence well that tracks I don't remember but and I remember you were mid doing a dental like and you needed something I don't remember the context of like why you were swearing. And I don't think you were like super, I don't remember you being angry. I just remember like multiple swears coming out and being like, who is this person? It's like, that's my future business partner. That's interesting. I like, hi. Okay. Well, I have three things

working against me. I'm a Sagittarius, fiery. Okay. I'm Italian. Spicy. Okay. And third, I'm a New Englander. You're mean. Basically, your first word is a swear. If you're right. So I have the trifecta going on and I'm trying to be better. Anyways, so that's that on that. For the record, I don't think you're mean. But thank you. Thank you.

Okay, I have a short one to share as well from Allie. And Allie says, I've been listening since very close to the beginning when I tried to play an episode to pass time for my science students while teaching high school. It didn't work in my classroom for some reason, but I started to listen on my own. And as an avid outdoors lover, I was hooked. My mother passed away suddenly in 2022 of MS, and it was so hard. My twin brother would constantly dream of her after she passed.

I never got any signs from her, even when I asked. In 2025, I was driving to my grandmas to work. She watched my baby while I worked from home. I was listening to the episode where Danielle brought up the sick of possum slash getting a sign from your dad. While listening, I asked my mom to send me a sign while continuing the episode. I shit you not. Five minutes into my drive, there was a dead of possum on the road. I figured it was a coincidence, but we all know about those, L.O.L.

There's another phrase. No such thing as coincidences. Oh, yeah. How could we forget? Well, it's because I feel like a lot of people say that. Yeah, but we say it a lot. Yeah, it's true. No, we say it more than anyone else.

Anyone who's ever existed. And that's a blanket statement. I will down. Prove us wrong. Closer to town, there was another dead opossum. I thought to myself, all right, mom, you never like the outdoors, so this is a weird sign. I get to my grandmas and start working. My nine-month-old was in the living room while my grandma went to the bathroom.

She was playing with a bluey piano, but it wasn't working, which I thought was odd since we just put new batteries in it. So I gave her a different, very cheap piano toy that my grandma had gotten her when she was about three months old. She started hitting buttons, and the piano started. playing, My Heart Will Go On by Celine Dion and I froze. It had never played that song. Over the six months, we had the toy. And to my knowledge, it has not played it since. That was my favorite song as a kid and my mom and I would take long car rides around town listening to Celine Dion and talking.

A memory I hold so very dear. I felt a wide range of emotions while I cried listening to the song play. My grandma, who is my mom's mom, came back and asked what was wrong. So I told you. I told her what had happened and she broke down too, saying that she can feel her presence when she's alone at home. It was a beautifully sad experience. Your opossum story was the start of a sign I so desperately needed from her since she never got the chance to meet my daughter. Thank you for that. That's very sweet. That is really sweet. And I love that they wrote, one told us this story on Patreon, but also just reflecting on our five years of being a podcast for the past several years we have talked so, or you in particular have talked so much about signs and we've gotten so

many trail tales of people experiencing their own signs from their loved ones. And I just thought that that was such nice. Yeah. That's been a big part of the show. Unexpected. Yes. But very big part of the show that is again kind of fills the part of us that needs like, you know, this is, these are real people that we're talking to that are having really deep, meaningful experiences because of some of the things that we've said or at least inspired by some of the things that we've shared. And yeah, so it's like sometimes it's really hard. I just said like again.

God. I hear it every time. Everyone dream. No, but it's just sometimes when Cassie and I come on to speak. to one another and do the show, it feels very kind of isolating a little bit because we're, first of all, we're not even together. We don't even get to be in the same room and record. Fun fact, we've only recorded in the same place, I think, two or three times for over the last five years. So it's just really nice when we get to hear from people having meaningful

things happen to them because of conversations that we feel like we're having by ourselves. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's nice to see. And we can see on the back end the numbers of people listening, but it feels like it's still just a number. It's just, it's still just the thing on the screen. So when you guys send in these, it's like our own connection to you guys. And we really appreciate it. Yeah. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got. You got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs.

You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

And just kind of rounding out the Trail Tales thing, we could not let this go. We couldn't not talk about trail tales and not talk about the infamous, the legendary. The one and only. Foaming pants. The foaming pants. The trail tale that has gone down in NPAD history in the past five years, I, shit you not. When I asked what people's favorite part of our podcast for the past five years, so many people said, I'll never forget the foaming pants.

Yeah. And I don't know, because I know we've talked about it a lot. But, and we had a different separate email in the very beginning kind of when we were doing this, because this is a trail tale like from years ago. And I don't know who the original sender was, but can you please reach out to us if you still listen? I would love to hear from you. And thank you personally for the story. I feel like we need to give you a trophy.

Yeah, I'll make you a trophy. I will make you a trophy. You just have to verify it has, like, you can't scam me. Like, you know, we need to, yeah, we need like proof. We'll know. We'll know. Yeah. Well, if you are listening to this and you are like, what is the foaming pants story?

I've never heard it. You need to hear it. And I think right now would be a great time to kind of rewind the tapes. and check out this Trail Tale's story, which was titled, What the Fuck, Why Are My Pants Foaming? And it's from Trail Tales number 25. Let's hear it. All right, my next one is titled, What the Fuck, Why Are My Pants Foaming? Foaming or Filming? Foaming. Oh, okay.

This story does not involve a vicious murder, a near-death experience, or even an alien encounter. But I am sure you'll find a certain relatability to it. Typically when we go mountain hiking, we try to keep the routes between two to five miles and read reviews on all trails prior to planning our trips. On this trip, however, we plan to challenge ourselves with a longer route. Our chosen route would go across an open meadow, connect with the Appalachian Trail, through Deep Gap and Summit Mount Rogers. While at our campsite the night before, we checked the weather forecast and things were not looking good. The weather was calling for thunderstorms throughout the day. We decided to wait until morning to determine if we needed to change our plans.

In preparation for the original hike, I bought a brand new pair of buttery soft hiking pants from Old Navy. I had not worn them yet, and like most people, I did not wash them prior to wearing them. I was just going to get them sweaty and dirty anyway. This becomes important later in the tail. We set off to the Cabin Creek Trail. The gentle pitter-patter of off-and-on rain picked up into a raging monsoon. We quickly packed up and began making our way down the trailhead. wearing my raincoat and hustling in the rain, I got a little sweaty. The pouring rain let up again,

and we slowed our pace. This is where things took an incredibly confusing and embarrassing turn. My husband looked back to me as we were chatting on the trail and gave me the craziest look before asking, are you okay? Confused, I inspected myself. I felt fine, but what I saw was unreal. Between my legs, coming from my crotch was a white, foamy substance. It was dripping, down my leg. What the fuck is that? While I brushed it off, I worried. How the hell are my lady parts leaking? What the hell is this? And oh my God, am I dying? These are just some of the thoughts that raised through my mind. After wiping it all away, assuring my husband that I must have just brushed against something sort of weird, like a plant, and hoping to move on and never think of the moment

again, we continued to hike. I'm just imagining the husband. Like, are you? What's going on down there? So funny. Not even three steps in. The white froth was back. What the fuck?

Wiping it away again, I racked my brain. What the hell is happening? My husband was very supportive. He offered his coat to cover me and never once cracked a smile or took a photo. I declined his coat. I didn't want to get whatever this was on that, too. We began to pass a few hikers braving the trail. Sorry, it's so funny.

Mortified. I foamed on. I foamed on. I'm like crying. I'm like trying to guess, like, myself, like, what this is. And I hope she tells us. But this is so funny. Looking back, I wondered what they thought of me.

With every step, more white dripped from my nuthers. To try and paint a better picture, it was specifically... You don't have to. We can picture it. We get it. It was specifically coming from my crotch. It looked like it was coming out of me. If you catch my drift.

We get it. It was white, thick, and a little bubbly, and foam-like. It made my pants wet around where it was settling, leaving a wet spot with the white in the middle until I wiped it away. It was oddly sexual, even though I knew damn well, we hadn't done that. And even if we did, it wouldn't do this. She's like, I swear, we didn't do anything. There's no reason for me to be following. I'm really crying.

Once in the car, after a deep breath and settling into the calm of privacy resulting from the embarrassing episode, I think I figured it out. My new buttery soft pants must have been treated with some sort of substance to make them soft to the touch. When that came in contact with a combination of rain, sweat, and the friction of my legs rubbing together hiking, the end result was my foaming crotch. I have scoured the internet to find someone with a similar experience, but so far I think it's unique to me. It has taken some time for me to transition from this being an embarrassing memory into a story that I can share and laugh about. and here we are. So enjoy the view, watch your back, and always wash your new pants.

Girl. I literally have never heard of anything like that. I want to know if this has happened to anyone else. We need everyone whose pants have foamed while hiking to step forward now. We need answers. Well, if everyone is now on the same page with the foaming pants story and you can join us collectively. moving forward. Welcome. Please send in your foaming pants stories. We've gotten a sequel. We've gotten a sequel.

Let's get, what's it? Let's get the third, whatever that is. The third, fourth, fifth. Let's make it a whole episode of foaming pants. It's still yet to happen to me. I feel like every time I go hiking in those conditions, I'm on the alert, though, that it could strike at any time. It's a new fear. Yeah, it is.

New fear has been unlocked. All right. Well, let's talk about times we've been stupid idiots. Yeah, because there's one time in particular. There's been lots of times. Too many to count, really. And we're doing you all a favor by just talking about one of them. But there's one in particular that I have to show off again for our five-year anniversary in case you weren't here for it. And it was our third episode where I talked about Astoria in Donali, a mountaineering accident in Denali. And I did not understand the difference between crevice and crevas and i very very seriously told the story told millions of people the worst mountaineering at she's like in the thick of the story we're in it we're on totally serious we're in donnelly with her we're struggling for our lives and i used the word crevice wrong multiple times in a row and i just thought you guys should all hear this clip so you can understand how far we've come did i read up No.

You're just listening to the story. So let's take it back to this moment. So you guys can just see how far we've come. When they got closer to the summit, soon they found a sleeping bag with a pair of wool socks inside. And it was next to a big crevice. So immediately they assumed that this person did not survive. Their stuff was right next to a huge crevice. Yeah.

All right. Well, do you want to clear it up for the people now? because you have grown. We've evolved. We've learned. We've evolved. And if you are still on the path of you don't know what the difference between crevice and crevosses, as I wrote down there, you haven't graduated third grade yet. As I had not. So the reason why using crevice, and I said something along the lines, and I know you all just listened to it, but I said something along the lines of he almost fell into this giant crevice. A crevice is not giant. The crevice is so small.

The exact definition of a crevice is a narrow opening or fissure, especially in a rock or a wall. And I will also point out that that story took place on a glacier, not a rock or wall. Cassie. Okay. This is funny in and of itself, but I've been drinking the, not an ad, but I've been drinking the out-of-office. Oh, shit. So it's sitting me so bad. right now. So I'm high. This is so funny. Oh my God. I'm not high. I'm relaxed. Just the right amount.

Just the right. You're not code. Seriously. You're so good. They're great. They are. I'm doing the cucumber melon line one because I ran out of it. I like the raspberry one. It's my favorite, I think. But anyway, regardless, I'm feeling great right now. And this is just so hitting the spot for me. Okay. So we got the crevice. We got the crevice. It has nothing to do with a glacier. But a crevasse. Nothing to do with the story whatsoever.

A crevasse in which I should have been saying is a deep open crack, especially one in a glacier, is the exact definition. Okay. And this is around the time that I feel like, because this is what, episode three. Yeah. So not a ton of people. are listening at this point in time, but there have got to been people who call this out for this. It's one of our highest downloaded episodes by now. Don't even say that to me.

I'm actually shocked we don't get messages about that then or comments or reviews. Yeah. I feel like people know. They've got to be like, they must know by now. They must do. They're in episode 350. They got to, they figured it out. Yeah.

And if you made it this far. Yeah. This is actually a really good time to formally ask because we haven't for a while. And this just goes to show. So for podcasting, the podcasting world, there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that are like really important to how the show is like indicators of how the show is performing and opportunities we can get and things like that aside from just pure downloads or listens. And one of those things is getting engagement on social media stuff, but also. reviews and ratings. And if you are one of those people like me, before I had a show, a podcast myself, that is an avid listener, like listens to something all the time, never misses an episode. I mean, I have like seven podcasts on rotation that I listen to religiously every week. And until I had my own show, I never gave them a nice review or even rated them five stars. And I had been a listener for years. And it's like, if you haven't done that for either us or any other show that you listen to, please do. Because it makes a huge difference. For our fifth birthday, our gift we're asking for. It's a review. A five-star one.

Yes. I can. It's like we just get a bunch of people yelling at this. You didn't specify you wanted a nice one. Yeah. We're trying to avoid that, please. So yeah, that would be really lovely. And it's just a nice reminder. I mean, I think a lot of. of people nowadays, podcasts are just so, like, it's not new anymore. Like, people listen to a bunch of them all the time. And it's just... I think you just forget or don't think about it. Yeah, but it's important. It helps us a lot to we'd appreciate it. That actually reminds me of one of the questions. I don't know why it reminded me of the question, just going into, like, podcasting and production and things like that. It reminded me of one of the questions that we got. And that was, who is walking over the leaves in the into and after commercial breaks?

Couldn't tell you. I don't know. Couldn't tell you. It's just a generic leave. It is leaves, though. People question what that is. If you have always, if you don't pay for ad-free episodes and you have to listen to the crunching of the leaves before our ads and after our ads, no, it is crunching in the leaves because some people are like, what is that? And other people have written into us. And been like, I was listening to you guys on a trail and I thought someone was walking up behind me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then some people are like, can you not have somebody chewing granola really loud like for your ads? I'm like, what? Like, just know, I would never have that because it would ruin my life to hear chewing on the podcast. Cassie is a big, what is it called?

Misophonia. Misophonia. Or whatever, yeah. Yeah. Hatred of sound. That is me. And yet you're in the biz of making sound. I am. And I enjoy making sounds. I just don't like hearing them.

And also, oh my God, another memory. This episode's going to be like five hours long. Five hours for five years. Welcome. Cassie, for the first. I don't know. Good year. Solid year. Maybe more. Yeah. She would legit have fidget spinners or like change in her pocket or a pen that she would click back and forth and back and forth. And it would be so, I'm like, girl, it needs to be quiet. I thought you were going to say when we were editing our episodes, I would edit out every single sound of breathing because I would. Every single noise, mouth noise, anything. And mind you, I wasn't good at editing.

But the part of me that could edit anything out. I can't sound like a person. Yeah. It actually made some of the recordings sound crazy. because I would, it's natural to breathe while you're speaking. Right. And have natural breaks in your cadence of how you are speaking. And I would completely erase all of those.

So it would be me talking really fast going to go to because I would just erase every pause. Because you're like, not on my watch. Am I going to be breathing? No. Okay. No one's going to witness this. Yeah. Okay.

Well, moving on to trauma. Trauma. We love it here. We've traumatized you and we know it. Yeah. And honestly, it's when Cassie's doing. I'm not involved because- You have trauma.

You have traumatized. You've traumatized me. Yosey Ginsburg. Okay. Yosey Ginsburg was... That one? That one was mine, I'll say. That one got me.

Good. That one was rough. But by and large, kind of the responses we got from our polling operations here. We got a wide variety. Yossi was in there. However, there was one that rose above the rest. For how much we traumatized you all? It's, of course, the night of the grizzlies. How could it not be the night of the grizzlies? The night of the grizzlies is the scariest thing that's ever happened. Oh. Yeah. If you haven't heard the night of the grizzlies, let's traumatize you again for just a moment. Yeah. So for the next several weeks,

this bear would harass visitors at Trout Lake with many reports to the Park Service about incidents. But with no actual contact reported, the Park Service did not see it as a dangerous situation. There were even instances where the bear was reported following campers for hundreds of yards and scaring visitors. He looked up to see the grizzly on all four standing over Julie. The bear was tearing at her body. Then the bear returned to him. He grabbed a hold of the back of his thighs and bit down hard. still, Roy managed not to make a sound.

Then, once again, he returned to Julie biting her, except this time, Roy could hear her bones crunch under the strength of the bear's bite. This hurts, someone help us, Julie cried out, but now her voice was starting to get further and further away. The bear was dragging her. So Janet had been in a deep sleep when suddenly she awoke to the sound of screams. At first she thought that it was an animal or two that were fighting, And to her, her first thought was that it sounded like a mountain lion attacking a deer.

And the scream was cat-like. And it couldn't be anything except for maybe it could be a human. And then she thought it couldn't be a human. That can't be right. Then she started to hear words. She heard a long scream and then help. Another long scream came followed by, Mommy, Mommy, and more screams. At this her husband, Robert awoke.

What is that? He asked. More screams started. and at first they thought it might be a child having a nightmare. More screams came, but it started to sound farther away. The sound stopped. It was 12.50 a.m. Dawn awoke.

Unsure what had woken him and disoriented, he looked around. It took him a moment, and sleepily he saw a figure in front of him standing, and then slumped to his knees. He looked at it a little longer and realized it was a teenage boy. It was Roy Ducat that he had met earlier in the evening that had had. decided to go to the campground to camp with the girl. Roy was giggling and babbling, clearly in shock. A bear got a hold of me. I tried playing dead, but it didn't help. He dragged her off into the brush. You have to go after her. Please forget about me. The bear dragged her away. Can somebody go find her? I can't. He has my zipper. She replied. He's got my arm. My arm is gone. Oh my God. I'm dead.

The bear lifted the sleeping bag into his mouth and carried it off into the woods. Soon as they reached the area of Roy and Julie had been camping, aiming their flashlights, they looked around. Blood painted the ground. There were shredded pieces of sleeping bags and some shoes on the ground. Okay, so I'm just going to pause for a moment. This is the part where it is very gruesome. So I just want to foreworn everyone to be prepared that this part is hard to hear. And this description of Julie is what Jack Olson described in Night of the Grizzlies. Julie lay on her face in a hollow. Her body was ripped and torn and she was covered in blood.

To the first observers, it looked impossible for her to be alive. She moved her lips and everyone could hear her say, it hurts. Moment of silence. Well, now if you haven't heard of the grisleys, go listen to it. It's horrendous. Yeah. I mean, it's good. And it's just one of the most traumatic stories that I have.

ever heard period like not even just for this show specifically i'm talking ever in my life um and i think a lot of people would agree and the i will say the second most that people were talking about a lot was the bolt from the blue story that you did um just something about lightning is it's just so hard because it's you know a force of nature that you can't you can't you can prepare for and do your best to avoid, but it's, that story was rough. Yeah. And I think the victims of the lightning strike just really struck a chord and a lot of people hearing in detail what happened to them. But also, I think the Jenny Lake Ranger is just knowing this, this team of people who go out into these really dangerous places to rescue people who have gone through some really horrible

environmental things. It was inspiring and tragic and awful. And that was definitely one of my favorite ones to research. Okay. Yeah, that's a question we get a lot. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play, Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer.

But speaking of other questions, in another life, what would your profession be? You have to work. You have to choose a profession. I know you were going to say, I wouldn't work. Well, I don't want to answer anymore. Let me stop you right there. In another life, what would I be? for a profession. And I don't have to like...

I think we should also specify like money is not an obstacle. Okay. Money is not an obstacle. Like imagine whatever you're doing, you're making a comfortable living and that's, it's fine. Yeah. I think it would be really cool to be a glaciologist. What? I think it would be so cool when we went to Antarctica. When have you... When we went to Antarctica and we had that glaciologist who was giving talks about

the glaciers and how and they go out and they study them and they're melting and and what's in them and if they have life in them and things like that and they go into these really cool Arctic or Antarctic locations. Yeah. That seemed really cool to me. Okay. I am shocked by that answer, but it's a cool answer. Thank you. I thought about it the other day and I had this conversation with someone the other day. So it's a new, it's a new idea. But podcasting doesn't work out. Head to Antarctica. They need you. Glacier people.

I'm going for you. I think I would be, I know I would be doing something either as a historian, working as a historian in some capacity. Whether that's in like academia or just giving guided tours or working at a museum or something, just something to do with the study of history. is what I would be doing. I could see that for sure. Moving on. Oh, yeah, back to the trauma. We're not done.

Back to the trauma. Yeah, which episode traumatized you the most researching? This one was difficult to answer because we've clearly covered so many stories at this point in time. And just having to think of not only the main episodes, but then also Patreon. episodes we've done and bonus content. And honestly, I think this was one that you may be surprised by, but the honeymoon from hell that I did. Yeah. I, for some reason, that one was really tough for me. I read the book, Ruthless River, for that episode. Yes. That was a crazy experience. I mean, it had, spoiler alert, if you haven't listened to it.

They do survive, but just barely. And something about, I think what it is, is same thing with Yossi, going back to our man, Yosey, is something about being in the Amazon and being on death's doorstep. When you're in a place where thousands of people, millions of people, have thrived for millennia because they know their way around. land and how to coexist there and like what to eat, what not to eat, how to find, you know, whatever is needed to sustain life just so easily. And yet as visitors and you're just in this place, like you're in the most biodiverse, rich place in the world and you're starving to death or you can't find enough clean water to live. And it's like there's a, there was a poster in my high school English class that said, and I know it's a famous person

who said, I don't know who, but it says water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink. And it was about being stranded in the ocean. And you're like, I'm literally surrounded by water, but I can't drink any of this and I'm going to die. And it's kind of the same thing of like you're in this place that you could easily survive if only you had the skills and knowledge to do so. Knowledge is power. So why was it so traumatizing for you?

Just because it made me spiral, I'm like, there's so much to learn. I never want to be in a situation where I could survive, but I just don't know how. Yeah. I think that's such a valid fear, especially because when you hear stories like theirs in particular, they didn't know that was going to happen to them. Right. It's not like they could have like study it. Like in hindsight, it's like I would have studied every plant species in the Amazon and what

was edible and not and known my way around, but just to, you can't know all things. Yeah, but just to have a foundational knowledge that can at least get you a little. And I mean, their circumstances was just one bad thing after the other. And it was just like way out of their control. But yeah, so I don't know, that one was just kind of, and we've had so many stories like that where it's like if they just did something different or whatever. And we never say that because we don't want a victim blame. And I sure shit wouldn't. know what to do. And it's not blaming. It's just a fact that they just didn't have the knowledge. Yeah. Well, what's yours? Mine was hands down the nutty putty cave story, which I did as a

Patreon story. I am a little bit claustrophobic myself in that story. If you haven't heard it before, essentially it's this man goes spulunking in this rock that is no longer, or this cave in Utah that's no longer available to public because of this event. But he got stuck in an upside down position and rescue came in and tried to help him. And his wife was speaking to him throughout this whole ordeal. And they just couldn't get him out of this space. And he slowly died. And it was horrific and traumatizing for not just him, but also the rescue personnel who had to be part of it. And his wife, who was speaking to him for hours while this whole ordeal went on. And it was just such a

the way he died and then also just the people affected because of the way he died. It just all of it just traumatized me for sure. And all the plane crash episodes I've ever done. I don't like planes anymore.

Traumatized myself. Yeah. You did that one. You did yourself dirty for sure because you have gotten, but it is kind of like along with more knowledge comes more.

Knowledge is power. Knowledge makes you scared. It does. Yeah. And I see it firsthand with you. It doesn't prohibit you from going anywhere. I mean, your love of travel and experiencing new places and things overrides your fear of flying for now. But the trajectory you're going, I'm worried for you because it has escalated quite a bit in the last few years. And it's just more so of like when we're flight, she'll look at the particular aircraft and say no to certain ones. And when we're on the plane, if any sort of weird sound or event happens, she's on it. Her ears are perked up. Even when I think she's... I can't do anything. But she doesn't sleep. We've already established that. So she's always listening. Always watching. Like, Wailowski. Always watching.

That's right. Okay, well, favorites, I guess. We get this question all at the time, personal favorites. I already mentioned mine. Which one of my favorite was the fatal lightning strike, the Jenny Lake Rangers and Grand Teton. That was one of my favorites for sure. To research, yeah. Yeah.

And then mine, I had the same. We did a four-year anniversary episode as well, and this question came up in that episode. my answer is the same. The Manmade Man Eater, Jim Corbett National Park, episode 52. Is that right? That's a good one. Wow, yeah, 52. Super good.

It has all the elements of what I find really interesting in stories. And that always kind of ties back to human wildlife conflict. That's kind of my thing. So, yeah, that was my favorite to research. I just found it so interesting. The book was great. No, Be So Fierce, if you want to look into that. Yeah. Speaking of books.

Books, books, books, books. Books. So many books for NPAD. If you've been on our website, there's a whole book recommendation list there. If you've been listening for a while, you know that 70% of our episodes end with a book recommendation at the end. We've read. I have not counted how many books we've actually physically read for research, because I'm sure it kind of varies. a little bit between since we both research, but I would say it's solid 70 each. Yeah, it's a lot,

a lot of books. Which one was your favorite? Yeah, definitely between what I just said, No, Be So Fierce. Or I think gun to my head, I would have to say the third man factor. because I just, that was one of my favorite episodes to research just because of the subject matter, just kind of like in a lot of life or death situation, not just in the outdoors. I mean, the book itself goes into other scenarios, including the terrorist attacks in 9-11, kidnapping situations, hostage situations, things like that. But about, you know, that voice that people get in life or death situations in their head, you know, is that what is that? You know, is that a spiritual thing, guidance from some of the realm? And why does so many people experience it? Yeah. Or is it you? Is it just some part of your brain that you're, you've disassociated from yourself and you're interpreting as a third person? And it's just, it's so fascinating. I love that story. We got a lot of trail tales about third man factors. people experiencing the third man factor themselves, which is another cool I would love to bring back if people have their own stories like that. But yeah, I really loved that one. It was great. That was episode one. What did I write? 1456. So good luck finding that. It's either 146 or

156. 1,000,000. You got to wait a long time. Yeah. Yeah, and mine was the Wall of White by Jennifer Woodleaf. She also wrote A Bolt from the Blue. And the Wall of White, she talks about the deadliest avalanche in U.S. history that took place at a resort in Tahoe. And I actually, it was originally just a Patreon episode and I released it as a main episode. But she just really dives into avalanches and what happens when you're caught in one, what happens to the human body when you're caught in one, how long you have typically to survive. And the story itself is really miraculous for the people who did survive. And then also just the efforts of the community that came forward to help the people who were caught in this avalanche. I just thought it was an extraordinary story. There's documentaries on it now that came out after I actually recorded this episode. So you get to see the faces of the people who are involved in the documentaries, which is really, really an interesting perspective.

But that was one of my favorite books. You love an avalanche story. You've done at least three. Yeah, I do like avalanche stories. You did the one in the White Mountains, that one, and then the one in Washington. Those are right off the bat three that you've done. Avalanche has scare me a lot. Yeah.

But, I mean, you've been in one now. We've been caught in an avalanche. On a group trip. Yeah. Oh, my God. We were going to dive into group trips next because we have gone across the world and around the past few years. We started them in 2023. But Danielle actually got caught in an avalanche on one of our group trips. I did. Yeah. We were, it was our group trip to Colorado at the beginning of 2025, January of 2025. And this. group trip was a little different because we kind of split it up. So Cassie did a backcountry ski snowboard avie course and I did a backcountry snowshoeing group. And on one of the days, we went out and it was one of the most well-traveled trails in Rocky Mountain National Park, but it was in some pretty, I wouldn't say all of the conditions. It wasn't scary. Like it's not like a shouldn't have been out there. It was just we rounded a corner. The snow was just right. And it was a steep rocky cliff side on the corner. And it was a really short period where you're

in this section too. Yeah. Oh, super short. It's super short. And people walk it all the time with their kids. People don't have avie gear here. Right. Yeah. We're not deep in the back country or anything. No, you wouldn't expect it here. But yeah, just it wasn't anything like, I mean, our guide really. who listens all the time. Hi, Reed. He was pretty shaking up about it because he's like, you know, not only have I never experienced something like this before, I'm with other people, you know, that I need to be concerned about. And so he took it very seriously. So I'm not saying it wasn't a big deal because it could have been. But thankfully, just the first couple people. So I was, I think, fourth in line. And the first two people got swept off of the,

lost poles like got buried a little bit but quickly popped up and like gave us their an okay signal. The person right in front of me kind of got pushed down the mountain side a little bit and I was just buried up until like my knees. And then everyone behind me was fine. But it happened really quickly. It was scary. Everyone was fine. But yeah. And then my side of the group went back the next day to use it as a teaching lesson on how to find avalanche conditions. Yeah, to study. Yeah. It was great. Yeah, it worked out all around. Everyone was fine. It was a good teaching moment. And it was also really interesting because our guide for the Abbey course, he was actually telling us that he had concerns of that area and he had been writing into the National Park Service that

he felt like it was a dangerous area. And he was going to use your experience to write back into them to be like, hey, we need to put signs here. This is what I'm talking about. Something really bad can happen here and they were going to put signs. So hopefully, that has been, it's a bad situation that went the best way it could. Everyone was totally fine. He walked out with an experience. And hopefully now I'm there. I don't know. I haven't been back this time of year, but hopefully there's signs now. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus,

L. Every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Well, speaking of other places we've been, do you want to just like rapid fire list them off? Yeah. And these are just for everyone, for everyone out there, these are just National Park After Dark group trips since mid-2020. that we have done. Not... You've been around.

Not personal trips. Not side quests. Like, this is literally just for the show and with listeners. So we'll go in chronological order. You want to do every other one? Go for it. We're going to do it fast. Egypt.

Patagonia. Alaska, twice. Bampf, Jasper, and Yoho National Park. South Africa. Madagascar. Peru. Quebec. Acadia National Park.

Borneo. Antarctica. A moment for Antarctica. A moment. Pour one out for Antarctica. Yeah. Okay. I know we're going rapid virus.

It felt like we needed to pause. Colorado. And Hawaii. Yeah. So those are the group trips we've done. But we've also done a little bit more unique group trips like the one that have a lanch situation. And that was a second trip to Colorado for the.

backcountry ski snowboard, snow shoe stuff. And we also did a wilderness first aid course, certification course in New Hampshire. Yeah, that was fun. Yep. Hometown. And then we also have done live shows, of course. We have. We sold out the Stanley Hotel twice. In one night. In one night. Jinks. That's crazy. Yeah, couldn't believe it. How. That was a moment in time, for sure, of being like, I just remember their, I don't want to call it a green room, but the dressing room kind of where they had us getting ready and prepared before the show started was above kind of looking over the event space. And I just had a moment of being like, we were out on the deck of that little space. It looked out into Rocky Mountain National Park over Estes Park.

We're in the Stanley. And I'm like, this is my job. But I cannot believe this is our career. We're here. Yeah. And watching people piling in to this beautiful room at the Stanley to come hang out with us and watch a show that we put together. It was definitely, it was one of one of the bigger moments, I think, in our podcasting career so far to just be there with everyone in that specific location was just really cool. So yeah, the Stanley Comedy Works in Denver. Which was our first live show.

Yeah, we did too. Was it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Comedy Works was our first ever live show. I had the worst hangover after that. Yeah, we partied a little bit after that. It was the, and it wasn't even like we drank a lot.

I just drank a lot of champagne. And that did it for me. We had some nerves. It was our first time. Yeah. And we went way over the showtime. Oh, my God. They were blinking the lights at us to get off the stage, but we didn't know.

we've never done this before. We're like, oh, something must be wrong with the lighting. That's odd. I rushed my story because we had taken up so much time. Okay, wait, wait, wait. We need to pause on this because there's so much good stuff here. Okay, so not only did we go over by, I would say, a solid 45 minutes. Yeah. It was a long time.

We're sorry for people who had plans that day. That was the plan. That was supposed to be the plan. Actually, we did get one person. We got one person who was pissed because they had a dog sitter. And they're like, and they were really mad. And it's like, sorry, we didn't mean to keep you hostage for almost four hours. Like what live show goes for four hours?

We didn't know. We were babies. Come back to another one. We'll do it in time we promise. Yeah. We're getting our stuff together for real for the next round and more to come for that. But so not only did we go over, completely ignore the workers. trying to get our attention desperately.

Like, hey, wrap this up. At first, I genuinely didn't know that that was them trying to wrap it up. I'm like, yeah? Like, at first I was like, oh, are they doing like a light show on us? Or like, I genuinely didn't know. It took me a minute to understand what they were saying. And I was like, oh, shit. But I'm like in the middle of this, like I'll hurry it up.

But as she's doing this. So, okay, so then we also, we didn't have iPads, nor did we bring a laptop. So we printed out like 25 pages. of notes to read like making it rain on the ground. We would literally just take a because we didn't even staple them together. Who needs that? It wasn't in a professional portfolio. No access to a stapler. I remember putting together fifth grade presentation things in a better in like a nice sleeve and like a packet. No, couldn't be me for that. It was a fun show though. I had a nice time. No, I'm not trying to take away from that. I'm just trying to say we were, so we were taking all these pieces of the paper,

throwing them on the ground. We didn't even have a side table. It was on the ground, littered with pieces of paper everywhere. And the cherry on top, we had each prepared. I did Alfred Packer, the Colorado Cannibal, and you did that game, not the wild bunch. I don't know, you did some Wild West story. I don't even remember. I don't know. I brain dumped that the second the champagne hit. But we did, so we did these two stories and we had prepared them extensively beforehand and had this all these amazing pictures and slideshows and assets to go along with our storytelling.

We get there. They're like, oh yeah. So our bulb for the projector broke. So you're not going to have that. Pure talent of entertainment. Oh, my God. I'm like, oh, no. So people are just.

going to be staring at me. They're not even going to be looking at a picture behind me. There's nothing. It was just all eyes on us. And when we finally did rough it up, we went and we did meet and greets, which were really cool. We had never done before. And we went way over time on those as well. Because we just went out with everyone. Like they wanted, it was like, I guess, a normal meet and greet, which we had never done before is like you say hi and like walk away. Take a picture. Take a picture. Like it's like a 30 second thing. And it was our first time and we had never met you guys. So we just hung out and talked to all of you. Well, and when you're going to tell us a homemade craft and tell us the story of how you took a road trip from Florida to get to our show in Denver, Colorado and had no other reason for being there.

We are. You know, it just feels not right to just be like, oh, yeah, thanks. Anyway, here's your picture. You're our friends. What do you mean? We got it. We got to hang. I got to know the rest of the story. Comedy works. We're like, oh, my God, these girls. Shout out to them. They really took care of us really well, and they handled, they stayed late for all of this.

They were nice. Yeah, they were nice. And they just like, they let us use their facility for as long as we wanted. And I remember at the end, we apologized. And they're like, hey, you sold it out. Do whatever you want. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Just in retrospect. back. Sorry. If you invite us back on many works, we'll do better. Yeah. What else have we done? What else have we done? We did the Joshua Tree Live show, which was really cool because we actually did a campout weekend. It wasn't a group trip per se, but there was like 80 of us, I believe, that were all camping in this huge campground in Joshua Tree. And we did like campfire stories and s'mores. And we hung out with the Joshua Tree National Park Association and put

on a show and that was really fun. That was a cool event because not only did it have the camping aspect, but we specifically did that show in partnership with the Joshua Tree National Park Association to help fundraise for them. And a portion of our proceeds went to that association, which is a nonprofit organization directly partnered with the park. So we're just always kind of being mindful of opportunities that we can partner with organizations that are in real time. helping the National Park Service. This would be a fun clip to play for people if we have it. Oh, yeah, if we have it, that would be great.

Throw it up there. Oh, yeah. And then also for that one, we did it in a church. An old church. Yeah, a converted. It used to be a church but wasn't anymore. People sat in pews. No, they did not.

I'm just kidding. But we were in a back room because there was no like official. room or anything. And we were in this back room, didn't have a single window, didn't have anything, but we could hear everyone filtering in. So we were trying to look through the grate of the door. We were watching you guys through the grate of the door to see. And Al was there with a merch table because he was so, he was running the merch table and you guys were so nice. You flocked to him. And we were looking through this grate in the door. And there's a line circling the whole building. Out the door. Just Al, just Al taking care of merch. And he's like,

sweating and running back and forth and trying to take your payments. But it was before the show. Yeah, poor one out for all. He was the MVP that day. And then after the show, we got to hang and say hi. And we helped him sell some merch because another thing they say not to do. And we're like, oh, shoot, what have we done? Because now this just turned into an informal meet and greet. And. But we like saying I. Yeah. What did we do? We came all this way. We came all this way and you're not going to talk to us? And then I felt so bad because we only ordered a certain amount of merch.

We're like, this feels like not everyone's going to want something. Like, this feels like enough. It was not enough. And then people were waiting in line for like an hour. And we had run out of stuff. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm so sorry. Talk to me for at least 25 minutes per person.

So this is all just to say that our shows are really good. You should come see us. You should come when we go places again. You should consider coming. Yeah. Like the Banfield Festival in Burlington, Vermont is coming up really, really soon. It's February 6th and 7th and we have tickets there. So if you want to see Al at the merch table and maybe us helping him if he's struggling. Which we'll be there. Yeah. We're going to be there. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be there for sure. All right. And last but not least, we did also do an event at the Barn Door Hostel in New Hampshire. It was cool because they just kind of invited us to talk. It wasn't like a National Park After Dark exclusive event. We just happened to be one of the people there. And it was a fun opportunity to meet a lot of the climbing community in New Hampshire. And yeah, we went and shared some New Hampshire based stories that meet. Yeah, which was fun. It was fun to be up in the White Mountains. It was not far from where I went to. college. It was just a really, really fun community. We camped out, hung out. It was very, it felt very like the good outdoorsy rustic that you're trying to, vibes that you're trying to get. And it was just a really wonderful community. And we had a nice time. Yeah. And we had two of our

friends from previous trips come. Yeah. To see us. Pay from Taiwan. Yes. I mean, she didn't come just from Taiwan to go to that. She was hanging out in New York City, but hi-pay, if you're listening. Yeah, that was awesome. Yep, her and Danielle came. Yeah, and Danielle came, which was really cool. And we were allowed to bring our dogs, which is the only show we've ever brought our dogs to. Chaska hates camping.

Yeah, he does. He's a boozy boy. He is a diva. He can't camp. That's crazy, Daniel. He was just wrapped up in my rumple blanket the entire time looking like Eeyore. In my camper. On like an actual mattress and he's like, I hate this.

Like, you're bad for the brand. Oh, my God. It's like, be outdoorsy. He is perfect. He's just a good boy. Okay. To finish this up, let's just finish up with some questions. Random, random questions that we've gotten.

Okay, we did skincare. We did what else? What else? Oh, this is a good one that I feel like we should. should wrap like or kind of make a more formal announcement about because we get this question all the time for those of you who do not know cassie and i began a second podcast called watch her cook and we a lot of people are like when is where new episodes are always suggesting new topics for us to do on that show and we very much appreciate that but if you did not catch it in the

last episode that we published of watcher cook which was julia child fittingly that was our end of season one. We are not saying it's done and gone and dead forever, but there are things in the National Park After Dark World that require a lot of our attention, even more so than, I mean, okay, were you here when we listed the, I don't know, 20 places we've been? Yeah, we just went over the past five years. We've been really busy. And we just have other things that require our full attention. So we don't have plans for a season two, but we hope to someday. But as of right now, we are fully focused on National Park After Dark. Yeah. But all the episodes for Watcher Cook are still up and available. And we encourage you to

listen to them because Watcher Cook was Cassie's brainchild. And I know we've posted like some, maybe at least one episode. I know we posted Mary Shelley's episode on the National Park After Dark feed and we've talked about it before, but we're proud of the show. It's just we can't, there's only so many hours in the day. You know what I mean? There's so much to do. So many things to see. Yeah. Yes. So, okay, so that kind of goes into, first of all, how dare you ask this? Any 26 side quests? Are you kidding me? I have enough quests. There's too many quests to handle. A side quest. If I could have a side quest, though, what would?

it be? And I say this a lot. I hate when people are like, like creators in particular, like, something's coming soon. Can't tell you anything about it, but I'm going to tease you about it for a year. But we really are working on things we can't tell you about it. But really, something's coming soon. But things are happening. But yeah, so we are working on some things that are very exciting and we can't wait to share with you. But I don't think they're going to allow for many 26 side quests. There is one thing, actually, I'm doing. I'm looking forward to.

For Christmas, my mom got me a trip, mother-daughter trip. We're going to Halifax, Canada, in May. And the whole reason is we were going to go in April to be there on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. But the ferry doesn't run until May. So we're going to go then. And go have a Titanic-themed week because for those of you who do not know, a lot of the victims of the sinking were brought to Halifax are interred in Halifax. And a lot of the buildings have ties to the tragedy. You know what?

I'm really glad that you mentioned that because you have tied the Titanic into everything throughout the past five years. And it feels like it would be a really missed opportunity if we didn't mention the Titanic on our. or five-year anniversary. You're right. So thank you. Remember when I used the Titanic ship as measurements in an episode? I can't even envision what 20 million tons of water looks like. So I wanted to understand the scale.

And I wanted to put it in a way that you would also understand the scale. So I wanted to know how many Titanic ships are 20 million tons of water. Thank you so much for using this measurement. Please tell me. Have you seen that meme where it's like Americans will use anything but the metric system? And here we go. And here we go. This is the amount of Titanic ships.

Can I guess a ton is 2,000 pounds? I don't know. I'm going to say 17 Titanic's. Not even close. It's the equivalent of about 382 fully loaded, like passengers, everything in it, Titanic ships. Whoa. Well, I get the scale now. Who needs the metric system?

We understand math. We get math. It's just great that I was able to Google that, too. Well, I really appreciate that. It's one of my favorite things you've ever done. And remember, it's holding 382 Titanic ships. I haven't forgotten. Yeah, and the Johnstown flood.

I'll never forget. I was so surprised by that. I got to bring it back. I haven't had any measurements that I've needed to use a Titanic ship, but the next time I do. I would love for you to continue. Yeah, please. Do you have any quests you'd like to take? No. A honeymoon, perhaps? Yeah, I haven't gone on a honeymoon yet, and it's not looking promising. So, 2027. Here we go. Here we got coming in hot. That's okay. Life is a honeymoon. Oh, and that's our next phrase. Life is a honeymoon. That doesn't land well, actually. Mine isn't. Never mind. That didn't land. Nope. Check out our merch. Life is on. Life is on.

Well, we have one last long-awaited questions and one of our most frequently asked questions. And that is, will we ever do a joint trip with tooth and cloth? Will we? Or won't we? The world may never know. Just kidding, you'll know. Because we are. Now's the time to tell you, kind of. You're just going to have to wait and see. Something's coming soon. And it's a trip with tooth and law.

Honestly. Like actually, yeah. Yeah, we're organizing right now in the works a joint tooth and claw National Park After Dark trip. And it's been something that we have collaborated on for a while to make happen and we're getting kind of the final details in order as we speak. So we will have that available to everybody. And by everybody, I mean, Patreon is definitely going to get first access and dibs as is only fair. Yes. But we will be releasing more details about where we're going, when we're going, the type of trip, all of that in the next actual couple weeks. Yeah. So keep an eye out.

Yeah, by the end of February. Yeah. So that's happening. That's super exciting. We know that you guys really enjoy tooth and claw, as do we. And they're kind of like our closest relationship when it comes to people in the biz. They're obviously huge overlap in audiences. And just we get along with them very well. We love them very much. So we're very happy to be able to do something all together. Yeah. It'll be really good. good time and you guys are going to be stoked when you see where we're going. Oh, you're going to be I just want to say it. I want to say it. I won't. I won't. I can't. That's why her hair's so big. It's full of secrets. I know. I get it. Okay, everyone. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us and for this episode and the 300 plus that have preceded it. And for the last five years and hopefully another five truly our lives have been changed for the better being able to yeah being able to do

this job couldn't do it without you um so thank you we love you and appreciate you and hope that you're with us for many more yeah welcome to 2006 we have a lot happening this year and we'll see you all soon but in the meantime enjoy the view but watch you're back that's a phrase we did not put and the phrases we use at the beginning. Does that count? I think so. Or is that a tagline? It's still a phrase.

It's on everything. But anyway. Don't even get me started on trying to TM things. Roll the bloopers of Enjoy the View, but watch your back. Don't please so. You would think we'd understand how to just say it. We don't. I'm surprised.

Have we said it since episode one? Yeah. Wow. I'm surprised by that. Oh, yeah. I think so. But I'm not sure. Somebody can tell us. I'm certainly not going to fall on the sword and listen to our first episode. Let's hear our first episode ending. Oh, roll it. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark. I'm Danielle. I'm listening today. I'm Cassie. I'm telling this story. And here we go. And here we go. Hello everyone. Welcome back to National Park. I'm Cassie. After Dark. And I'm Danielle. Did I just say National Park? Yes. Welcome to this unhinged episode of one-star reviews. Boring.

Danielle, I looked up a song you said you love. Don't fence me in. And it's a song I'll always keep. Tell me more music you love. Oh my God. That's so funny that you bring this up. Oh, my God. Hello? I think, I just got so excited. My old mic fell out. I'll just hold it like this for now. Thank you so much for asking.

Less visibility. There's music playing. A hero. There goes my hero. Oh. Different songs. This podcast. This podcast.

This podcast. This podcast is brought. brought to you by National Park After Dark. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club, live streams, discord, and much more.

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