National Park After Dark - Crime or Cryptids ft. Sinisterhood Podcast: Mark Twain National Forest

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Join us on a very special episode as we trek to Missouri! This time around, we get to sit back and learn as we are guided through Mark Twain National Forest by Christie and Heather from Sinisterhood podcast. We talk all about cryptids, mysteries, missing persons and more with amazing company. Be sure to check out Sinisterhood HERE to catch their latest episodes and grab a ticket to one of their upcoming live shows! Make sure to listen to their  Freaky Friday segment to hear us share our own personal freaky but true tales.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Apostrophe: Use our link and code NPAD to get your  first visit for only $5.Hello Fresh: Use our link and code npad16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com. Relax. As AI does the manual work, while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform, so flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Notice you're limitless.

Limitless. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally. Breathe. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.

That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Hello, hello everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We have a really cool episode for you today.

I sure do. We're having guests on today, which I feel like we kind of haven't done in a little bit. I feel like we're just like tooth and claw for life. But then there's so many other cool podcasts out there. We've done a couple different collaborations in the past. And this one we're really stoked for because I recently just went to one of their live shows when they were here in Denver. And as you could probably tell from the title, we are talking to Heather and Christy from Sinisterhood. And we're so stoked. This is going to be such a fun conversation. They're taking us to a national forest that we've never been to before. And we're the ones being told the stories today, which is a totally different vibe than usual. So we're excited for this. It's kind of a welcome relief. It's kind of like a palate cleanser when you get to sit and just have a story told to you. Well, and they're just both so fun.

and they're so fun to listen to for their stories and their banter and everything. So I'm just excited that we get to sit back and join and listen to the story that they're bringing us today. So I guess without further ado, let's say hello to Heather and Christy. Well, hello, Christy and Heather. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. We're so excited to get started. I know you both have some lovely stories for us today. But before we do, could you just introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about sinisterhood?

Yeah, for sure. I'm Christy. I'm one of the co-host of Sinisterhood. It's a podcast comedy podcast about all things sinister. So we cover paranormal, true crime, cults, cryptids, mysteries. You know, of course when we're doing true crime, it's not, we don't do the comedy then. But for other stuff, we do kind of a mix of all stuff for our listeners to have, you know, a variety, but also for us and to get a little brain break in between like do some more. Fun things in between all the horrors of the world, too. Yeah, we like to cover the horrors of the world and say, what are these? What can we do about them? What's been going on with this? But also, you know, you guys, you need a brain break sometimes and switching up the topics. Keeps us all fresh.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're a big fan of your podcast and we know our listeners are because there have been many times where they have reached out to us and been like, can you do a collab with sinisterhood? Oh, yeah. We'll say what podcasts are you all listening to and you always pop up. So we know that we have some fans. Well, we'd love to hear that.

We've heard a lot about you guys from our listeners too. So we're super pumped to finally get to collab. Right. And thank you so much for coming to our Denver show. We saw y'all. Of course. We were so excited. And then our listeners in the audience were like, gosh, I'm not.

I mean, we were all so excited when we reposted it. It was so funny because when I went, I was like, I'm not going to tell anyone. Like, no one has ever recognized me. Cassie's been recognized a couple of times, like out in the wild, you know, but no one has ever recognized me. And I actually kind of enjoy that. I just felt like I should be like wearing a hood, you know, and just like, sun glass. Yeah. Yeah. So when I came to your show, I was really happy because I knew that in the audience, there's probably some people that knew what National Park After Dark was, but didn't know who I was,

which was perfect. You know, the only times I have ever been recognized are in public restrooms. In the bathroom. So, yeah. What a place. Yes, twice now. I think it's been in a public bathroom. I never get recognized, but my husband does Paris because I, my Instagram's almost only

pictures of him or us together. And I guess I just look like an everyday average gal about town. And they're like, oh, that's the guy that looks like an Instagram model just because I'm like, look at him. Look at him. So people will go, hey, Heather. I actually recognize Paris. I'm like,

I'm sure you did. It's fine. I would recognize him too. I get it. But that's, yeah, we appreciate you coming out, man.

Yeah, that's awesome. We love Denver. Oh, yeah. That's one of our favorite clubs to play is Denver. Just, it's so like intimate.

It feels kind of like a cave. Like a cozy. Yeah, we love it. We, the first time we played there was great too. Yeah, that comedy works location is great. Because when we did our Denver show,

we did the other Denver location, which isn't as like, vibey. Okay. Cozy caveish. Yes. Yeah. And it's underground over there in Larimer Square.

Yeah, we love Denver. Yeah. We go to Denver probably like more than we need to once every six months or so. We'll just be like find an excuse to go. Now we're probably, we want to come in the next few weeks because Casabonita is opening. Yeah. Which is like, Denver legends. Yeah.

Oh, good. You're excited too. Because everybody we tell is like, you're going to hate it. Don't go. And we're like, we have reasons. Heather has been a fan since she was a wee use watching South Park. That's all I want. We have to go.

It's about the experience. Yes. Right. I'm trying to see cliff divers. If there are also enchiladas, that's fine. And I'm pretty sure that's the cast of Benita business model. So I'm on their target demo, right? Enchalas and cliff divers?

Yeah. What more could you ask for? Yeah. Sounds like a solid day. Yeah. Well, we'll make sure we'll let you know when we're coming. So, yeah, I'll bring you to Rocky Mountain. Oh, okay.

We'll do it. Perfect. I'm going to go on an adventure. I won't drag you. all the way to the sand dunes, but Rocky Mountains. Oh, sweet. I've seen some cool. I got on the, as I guess, I don't know how I got on the national park or just like travel, but park hiking, Pacific Northwest Rocky Mountain Instagram algorithm. And I'm fine with it though, because I'm just like, well, I have to go to Idaho now and I also need to go to like, it's just these places that you never

would think to go. But they are, we're living, surrounded by gorgeous scenery. And it's just we need podcasts like y'all is to remind us of it. Yeah. Well, we are glad we can provide. that Cassie's list is ever growing. It sure is. We keep researching places that we're like, oh, this one and this is cool. And this is great. Oh, I have to go here now. There's so many, yeah.

So many. I love it. Well, where are you guys taking us today? There we go. Today, we are taking you to the Mark Twain National Forest. Oh, we haven't done that one yet, have we? Okay. No.

Yes, it's in Missouri. So maybe after today it'll be on your, we know it's not South. Africa or where did Eltonia. They're going to Madagascar. But it's so cool. Yeah. Listen, Missouri.

All right. But we covered it on our show, but we wanted to bring it to you all because we want your opinions on each of these. And it covers kind of everything we do because the Mark Twain National Forest, as we get into it, you're going to see there's paranormal. We got true crime, conspiracies maybe, and mysteries that we need your expertise on analyzing. Yes.

And some missing person cases too. missing persons case. Yeah. So maybe we can get some eyes on that case as well. Yes. So whenever y'all are ready, we will jump right in. It sounds like you have a boatload of stories from Missouri. We're excited. All right. Well, I will say every time that we go to the Midwest, the people in the Midwest are so stoked for it. People rally around these episodes. You know, every time we do a Midwest episode, so many people come forward and they're like, that's my park. I know so many stories. if we do Yosemite or one of the bigger ones, people do come forward, but the Midwest, there's like a, there's a huge love for those states in there that people just love to hear it. Yeah. Yeah. And people don't, they're not maybe the biggest ones that, you know, get all the attention. So they're like,

that's my, that's my hometown. You feel like a celebrity. Yeah. Like everyone loves Yellowstone and no one gives any love to the Mark Twain. What about Mark Twain National Force? What about Mark Twain? Well, we'll tell you what about. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L. Every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. All right, well, here we go. Mark Twain National Forest spans over 3 million acres, spreading over 29 counties throughout Missouri. It is home to several wilderness areas, a range of volcanic mountains, and the largest spring on National Forest Land. Named for author and Missouri native Mark Twain, the forest is home to more than 750 miles of trails. Outdoor enthusiasts can enjoy hiking, horseback riding, and mountain biking.

Countless waterways provide a scenic backdrop for canoeing, kiosk, And fishing. Sounds pretty great so far. I'm down. Missouri people, I get it. I mean, be proud. Yes. That sounds great. I'm already adding it to my list of places to visit now. 750 miles of trails. Yeah. But that is kind of, that's, I love national parks. That's also the morbidly creepy, fascinating part is just how vast and massive they are and how you're just a blip in them. And so many people go missing. Hard to find. Yeah. Aside from its natural beauty,

Mark Twain National Forest has gained a more sinister reputation. Paranormal author Stephen LaChance told the travel channel, when I think of the Mark Twain National Forest, I think of an evil place. I've had nightmares about this place. Oh. Well, let's not besmirch the good name, Stephen McChance. We were just saying we all wanted to go there.

I know. Maybe. It's kind of like spoiling a movie where you're like, it was great. The ending, you're never going to see it coming. If you go into this, knowing I've had nightmares. It's very sinister. Then you're on edge and everything is going to creep you up. You're looking for it now. Yes. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And Stephen LaChance is we,

and I know, Danielle, you're into paranormal things. We covered another book that he had written on the show, the Union Missouri Screaming House, which was this house that was haunted and a family had to, you know, move out of it or whatever. So he's a, he's a storied author on the paranormal. In Missouri. In Missouri specifically. It's very good. He has a niche. He's a niche author. but he knows his he knows what he's talking about he's south of Missouri there have been several documented run-ins with paranormal beings in the forest in 2009 david harkins a paranormal investigator was exploring the grave of eliza jane lecoq which sits in the forest beside a road just south of a cemetery according to harkins locals believe

lakeawk was buried out by the road because she was a witch and therefore was not allowed to be buried in the cemetery adjacent to the church rude very very Out in the dark by himself, Harkins got a pang of sadness, something that was common to him anytime he visited Lake Hock's grave. This night, when the temperatures dip down into the low 20s, Harkins noticed something about the alleged wishes final resting place. The stones lying around her grave marker were all warm to the touch. Interesting. Yes. So it's freezing outside.

All these rocks are hot. There's no fire around. Very weird. Very weird. Harkins told mysteries of the outdoors that he looked up to find a man standing in the distance, staring at him. Even more terrifying, Harkins noticed a stranger was no ordinary man. He stood around seven feet tall and his eyes were glowing red. Panicked, Harkins decided to leave. When he looked over his shoulder one last time, he saw the man flicker a few times for disappearing.

Oh, that is not something I would want to come across. No. No. He described. It described it kind of of like static on a TV screen. Like when, you know, a picture's like coming in and out, which you don't ever want to see that ever. But in a dark woods and a witch's grave, especially not. Red eyes and seven feet tall. No, thank you. I'm out.

That's a big nope for me. Yes. In the, and in the Discovery Plus show that they, of course, they do reenactments, which is this one I would highly recommend to search on, just go on Discovery Plus and search Mark Twain National Forest. and the graphics that they chose to use, like the glow of the red eyes, I was like, oh, you know, someone was like, let me get the footage. Let me just put their little red right there.

Like you can see, it's like very after-up. They tried. If you did see that out alone and you already touched the hot rocks, I could see how it would be terrifying, even with the bad graphics. Paranormal investigator Brandon Callahan told Discovery Plus that he believes

the paranormal figure was actually a demon that had been summoned using black magic. When a covenant or a person, is practicing some sort of ritual, they'll want that area protected so that outsiders won't have a tendency to wander in. So they're going to call in protectors. Those protectors can manifest themselves in human form or any other form. Indeed, the rumored practice of the dark arts in the Mark Twain National Forest has been around for centuries. Stephen Lechance told mysteries of the outdoors, but he believes this may explain the gruesome scene he stumbled upon one day while exploring the forest.

I came across the pasture one time and it was full of deer and the deer were all dead I'm not talking one or two or three talking like 20, 30 and it was pretty weird and unexplainable so yeah I guess it fits out what do you don't think out in the forest in night you think people use it for

whatever purposes like you said because you're conjuring things you can't see you wouldn't be caught so many deer out there that is really strange yeah and they weren't just dead yes there had been you know if animal or something had gotten a hold of them but to have that many in one place in one small area that's like that feels that gives me chills a little bit it feels like evil and I don't I don't know

maybe some type of conjuring in that area or I think I try and take the scientific side where I'm like maybe there was a poison in the area and they all yeah something like I'm the same way yeah I'm the same way And then I extrapolate that out to what's the scariest thing, humans. Right. And then even if it was like they were trying to conjure something, if people were to do that as some sort of sacrifice and not a demonic presence, then arguably for me, that's even more terrifying. Right. It is scarier to think that there are people willing to do that versus maybe an alien. Although for me, I'm like, but was it an alien?

Because I hope that it was. I think that's the best outcome. I see Danielle raise her hand. Yep, same. I love aliens. Oh, me too. I love aliens, yes. I always want the explanation to be like Bigfoot aliens, which I should have a logical

mind because a lawyer, but I don't. If it is the Bigfoot or aliens, leave the deer alone. Right. They don't need 20 or 30, you know. Bigfoot would never. Bigfoot would never. Who does that to a deer? Exactly.

In 2011, Bud Steed, a paranormal investigator, was in an area of the forest that he described as A real creepy kind of place, especially when it starts getting dark. Bud was out there following up on an incident reported to him, where motorists suffered unexplained car instrument malfunctions. When Bud took a walk near the area, he heard something unusual, telling the travel channel. I heard this really low, throaty kind of growl. I don't even know how to describe it. I spend a lot of time in the woods, and it was like nothing I'd ever heard before.

Well, y'all spent a lot of time in the woods. Have you heard a low throaty growl before? Sure has. Yeah, sure. Really? Tell us. What was it? It was a bear.

Yeah. We were together, too, actually. You were. Tell me everything. You would have to know. We love bears. I'm fascinated with bears. Heather's got to see like 30 bears all alive, unlike these deer.

Go to the Smoky Mountains if you hadn't already been. I saw so many good looking bears, but they weren't growling. Yours grout. I saw them from a distance heard nothing. You heard it before you saw it? Oh, yeah. We never saw it. Like, technically really saw it.

We saw it moving. and we saw like the underbrush around it moving. But we were out walking on a trail up in the White Mountains and we suddenly heard like a low growl happening. And we both stopped and we're like, do you hear that? Because we were mid-conversation. It wasn't like we had our ears out for it. You don't go hiking and silence with one another.

No word spoken. Just heavy breathing the entire way. Sometimes that's the case. Damn, so what do you do in that situation? We didn't actually really know what was happening in this situation. We're listening to it and we were like, what is that? What is that? And we're listening to the sound, we're listening and we decide we should just get out of there

because we just, we suddenly see like this brush moving. And her dogs. A couple feet from us. A couple feet from us. And her dogs were like starting to be a little weird and we're like, okay, go, go, go. And we leave. And then when we get to a safe distance, we actually looked up the noises we were hearing to try and figure out what it was. And YouTube had this lovely video that said, these are the noises before a bear attacks.

Shut up. It was like a, it was a video of like a montage of different bear vocalizations and what they mean. So we're like, oh, that wasn't it? That wasn't it? That wasn't it. And then all of a sudden we're like, there it is. And it was like, run, basically. Or don't run. You should never run. But yeah, so it was, it was interesting. And we've, I think that's the only time we've encountered, like, that was our closest encounter with a black bear. But as far as the growling. Yeah. Gosh. So, I mean, you would assume the bear smelled y'all or the dogs and was given a little warning sign of like, yeah, hey, I'm here. Move it along.

Yeah, keep going. Yeah. We heard them loud and clear. Yeah. Okay. No argument here. We will be on our way. Thank you.

Well, God, super. This is why we don't camp in the woods. Yeah, right. Because one, we would be just breathing heavy and probably missed the growling because it would just be, we would be like, was that you or a bear? We both really like the outside and we like to be outside, but we're, I mean, you know, we're indoor cats, right?

Like pretty indoor. just by nature like but we like it but when we went camp we're not camping we went for a hike aka a walk along a road when we were recently in sundance and it was quiet like we were breathing and then at one point we came upon a rock which is there for cars not to like hit a curve and you're like do you think it's chill if we sit on this rock and i was like yeah probably we just sat on a rock so yeah that we would be what's that that's fine we're just sitting here and we would get got we'd be on the news and that'd be like man and they'll be like listen to that time they were on now National Park after dark, they knew this would happen.

So I've been. They were heavy breathing on the altitude. That's my excuse. It's not the fact that we should exercise more. That's fine. I'm good. That's what I say whenever I get to higher altitudes too. I'm like, I went to Colorado in December and we were in Breckenridge just walking down the street and it's pretty flat on the street there.

And I'm like, I swear I can walk down a street normally. Yeah. Now it gets you the thinner air. In the park, I wanted to like bring it, because we covered the Stanley. I know you all did too, right? We went and visited and I was like, I need like one of those masks. Like the air in a can that at the Denver airport, there's like ads and the little frame going through.

Like if you need to get to your other gate and also if you can't breathe, there are cans of air. I was like, I need one of those. Yeah, they dispense them out here all the time. There's like little like oxygen bars and stuff for people. Yeah. I mean to huff it. Next time we're in Denver, we're going to an oxygen bar.

We're coming to Denver. We're going to go to Casabinina. we're going to huff an oxygen maybe reverse i feel like we should do reverse oh yeah we might need it we can't be tied to a machine after cost of a meeting we need you like free rain if we never if we need to get to a bathroom or yeah you don't want to burp in the oxygen mr i'll say with my rational mind because i also even though i love an alien and a big foot more than usually the next person uh even though with all that um i'm I'm going to say that was probably a bear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. That low growling grunting, it's just kind of like you just happened to be in the same location. And Missouri has black bears, so... There you go. Well, I believe y'all, because you have experienced. Yeah, I would trust that. So you're experts as far as I'm concerned. Well, Bud prepared for a fight.

Once he heard the sound of footsteps, he then saw a figure walking nearby. Just as soon as the footsteps began, they stopped. He tried following the figure into... the forest but as soon as he got closer figure disappeared before his eyes he told the travel channel it was just one of those experiences you can't explain but the figure separate from the bear the bear's its own thing growling the figure different thing the bear is growling because it saw the ghost in the woods it's the ghost man from the grave is just walking on the I like to envision him as like the quaker oat man from the oatmeal chanister just because they said he was wearing like a wide brimped

at it's also way less scary to think of that Yeah. You want some maple oatmeal? Well, like we were talking about on y'all's Freaky Friday stories on our show, animals know things that we don't. So I think this bear, which I'm now saying it was a bear, was like Bruce and knew something was not right going on. Yeah, saying, get out of here.

They know. One possible explanation for the creepy incidents involves something buried deep in the forest surface, a 150 mile long fault line called the New Madrid seismic. zone runs across five states and right through the Mark Twain National Forest. From December 1811 to March 1812, the Noonbadrid fault was responsible for the most devastating earthquakes in U.S. history, ranging in magnitudes of 8.4 to 8.8.8. The quakes were so powerful, they made the church bells in Boston ring and caused a fluvival tsunami in the Mississippi

River, making the river run backwards for several hours, according to History.com. Y'all ever encountered this? Sure haven't. No. You're like in New England, like the church bells are ringing. Shit is going down in the Mark Twain forest. Is it noon? No. The forest is rumbling. What forest? It's miles away.

It's Wednesday at 11 a.m. There's no services. Well, things are going on in the forest. That's a big ass fault while. Over a five-month period, 2,000 tremors occurred, causing the geography of the region to drastically change, according to mysteries of the outdoors. Additionally, the powerful quakes liquefied the ground in certain areas,

releasing a thick, toxic black smog in the air, making it difficult at the time for people to breathe. What a time to be alive. Right. Yeah, I mean, really, 1812, already, what a time to be alive. But then you've got this on top.

You already, I feel like, or constantly can't breathe from something going on. Yeah, they'd probably be working down in the lines. The black lung, yeah, there's something. or just constant dirt being kicked up from your wagons. Yeah, honey, let's go to the forest. It's just smoking big black smog. And bears and demons.

Lack of clean air wasn't the only problem brought on by the smog. Some people believe that demonic forces previously trapped underground were released into this world after the quakes broke apart the ground. According to Stephen the chance, paranormal activity is caused by the fault line. Paranormal investigator Brian Callahan agreed. read telling the travel channel. When you have a fault line as large as the Madrid,

nobody should be surprised that the Mark Twain National Forest is wrought with demons and monsters and ghosts because you're directly accessing this underworld that we're completely unfamiliar with. And I feel like we just need people in the world who are willing to go on camera on the travel channel and say that a national forest is wrought with demons and monsters and ghosts with a straight face. It's lousy with demons. You don't want to go to that for. Do you know what this is? This is like a copy and paste of stranger things.

Right. Maybe they, because they use kind of like Montaugh as an inspiration, but you're right. This is more of an inspiration for the upside down and the ground part versus the government testing is like Montauk, but you're right, the ground has cracked open and the shit's just seeping out.

And it's releasing all of this stuff. It's been buried for how before us, yeah. Damn. Perhaps this exposure to the underworld is responsible for the terrifying grunting sounds that some people have reported. hearing in the forest. Either that or another monster may be responsible. Farrell hogs. As of December 2022, the federal government was formulating a plan to deal with the large quantity of feral hogs in the Mark Twain National Forest. Hunting the hogs on federal land is illegal. So other more

compassionate methods are being explored. Still, there may be yet another monster making its presence known in the forest. Yeah, if you hear demon sounds like pig sounds, that feral hogs are demons. I don't want to come across one of those either. I have a pet pig and there's times I don't want to come across her and she is not feral, but they can be very aggressive and extremely stubborn and she does not have tusks. No, the squeal of, have you heard the like all the, it's not even, it's like a scream situation. Oh, I hear it. No, no, you. I'm sorry, Danielle and Cassie, but you ever heard that like the, like a man? Oh, yeah. I mean, I volunteer at a farm and they have a pig and she's super cute but sometimes she goes into heat and she is the scariest thing

to be around because she'll chase you and like bite your ankles and like chase you around the whole farm and I think that animals think that they can bully me too so I'm she like sees me and makes a beeline for me as soon as I get in and she's like it's pretty comical because there's been times where I'm literally running and she's like, like chasing after me. Coming after you. Yeah. We had a pedal, our pig, uh, fixed at a very early age for this exact reason. But yeah, when y'all moved, I was helping Christy's husband move pedal and she's 90 pounds. Oh, she's probably over a hundred. Probably over 100 pounds. I mean, she's and there's, you know, you have like the boards that kind of help move. But even with that, just the sounds that they make. And I was like, oh, yeah, if I was out in the forest and

I heard this, I would be like, oh, the hell, the ground has opened and hell is on earth. There's no other explanation. No, absolutely not. The way that sound, it was curdling. It's quite shocking, yes. With over 3 million acres of dense forest, it should come as no surprise that dozens of bigfoot sightings in Mark Twain have been reported. The YouTube channel, Sasquatch Theory, chronicles interviews from hunters and wilderness enthusiasts

that claimed to have encountered the beast. I knew Bigfoot was coming. Like, we're waiting for this. Do you ever go Bigfoot hunting? Have you, whenever you've gone to the parks to visit, do you have a guide, like, take you on a tour? You know, that's like a dream. Oh, yeah.

But I, when I first, I moved, I lived in the Pacific Northwest for a few years. And when I first moved there, like, I have a, I have a beanie and it says, like, gone squatching on it. And going into, you know, you can't help but think of Bigfoot when you're in the Pacific Northwest. Number one, because, I mean, the image of Bigfoot is on literally everything. Everywhere. Yes. But also it's just, I mean, the forest does give that vibe off.

And my dad, he passed away when I was a teenager, but he and I always, like, Bigfoot was our thing. So when I got to the Pacific Northwest, I'm like, all right, dad, let's do it. Gone squatching. And like I always, you know, look out for things, but I've never been on like a true expedition. Yeah. We need like a formal Bigfoot guide and we got to all go, all four of us are going on a formal Bigfoot hunt in the forest. I would love to go.

We went to the Bigfoot Museum when we were in Boring Oregon. Boring Oregon. Borgon is that what is. That's fun. And it actually was much more legit than we anticipated it being. We thought it was going to be like some dude's garage, but it was like a very nice. building with legitimate artifacts and whatnot. They had foot impressions from something.

Was it a big foot? Maybe. And the best part was that it had a, there is a bottle of musk of Bigfoot, the scent of a big foot. And you take a little squirt puff in your mouth. Not your mouth. I'm sorry. Your mouth.

Don't do it. Don't do it in your mouth. Don't do it in your mouth. Sorry, sorry. You take it in your nose, which is still, it'll singe the nostrils a bit. But that way, if you ever take a little, and that way, if you're in the forest, you'll know if Bigfoot is around. It's also awful smell.

Probably just... I mean, we've filmed it. And there was gagging. Yeah. It's real bad. I know you guys just said it was legit, but that sounds... How do they acquire the smell is my question? Great question.

Yeah, like, you go out to the counter and ask, where did you get this? And you're like, you don't want to know. And you're like, I don't. You know what you're right. Because it's going to have some gland and I don't want to know what... Or what? The owner was there, but he was preoccupied with other people. so we never got the chance to talk to him.

He's a busy man. You don't get to own a Bigfoot museum in Boring Oregon being just some nobody. No, that's right. It's true. Well, one man, Matt, said he was never a believer until he witnessed a Bigfoot walk across the road as he was driving down a forest one day.

According to Matt, the creature was at least six feet tall and covered from head to toe in hair, the color of... A paper sack. Matt said the animal didn't seem at all concerned with traffic on the road, confidently walking across the street without looking both ways. As the bigfoot climbed down into a ditch, Matt noted the solid black souls of his feet. I like that Bigfoot is sashaying across this road. Like, you can wait.

I don't look both ways. You look for me. I don't look for you. If you hit a Bigfoot, your car is fucked. He's walking away from it, I think. He's just going to be like one arm out like to like Tony start like a superhero. Just nope. And block the car immediately.

I wonder how many people have hit a moose or hit a Bigfoot. and said it was a moose, but they never found the moose. Or they were like, damn, there was like a deer back there, I think. But then really it was a big foot. And the big foot was just shook it off and was irritated. Yeah. They've got to put a light there. It's like, I don't think they're gonna.

A bigfoot crossing sign. Yeah, he's so annoyed. I'll talk to, he's a big foot's like, I'll talk to my city counselor about this. I deserve a crosswalk. Okay, Bigfoot. Another hunter named Bill told the channel that while camping and in the forest one night, he was awoken around 1.30 a.m. by a cacophony of sounds, including huffing, puffing, and growling by an unknown animal. Armed with a loaded 45, Bill crept out of

his tent to see what he was up against. Much to his surprise, Bill saw what he believes was a big foot. Based on the huffing and puffing and growling, it could have been us, but it wasn't. Also, probably a bear. Yeah, right? So, you know, grab a bear. I will say, though, that hunters are such a great resource because they tend to know the outdoors inside and out and have a lot of experience there as far as, you know, not only the landscape, but the animals too. And we have a lot of hunters that listen to our show and write into us. And even though we're not hunters ourselves, and they usually have the best stories because they have that rational process in mind of like, I've been hunting for 25 years.

I know this area like the back of my hand. This is unlike anything that I have ever encountered. And they usually say, I don't know what it was, but I know what it wasn't. Dang. You can rule it out. Right. So every time we get a story from a hunter or I hear witness testimony of some sort from a hunter, I always kind of believe them more. There's a little more credibility there.

Yeah. Bill knew what he saw and it was a big foot. That's right. Well, it's true because they, that's part of being a good hunter is getting accustomed to different animal sounds, especially the ones you're trying to track or hunt. And I like that that it's not, I don't know what that is. It must be a Bigfoot. It's just, I don't know what that is. This, this.

I know it's not this. So that's the type of deductive reasoning I do. Yeah, I'll step in and say, I believe it was a Bigfoot. Okay, great. I love it. Two votes for Bigfoot. I'm going to, just because I want it to be. Okay.

But I don't know that it was. but I'm going to say it was just because I want it to be. Cassie, what are you weigh in? I got to know more of the story. I got to know. I see Cassie and I, we got to have a little more receipts. I've seen some patterns here. Not wanting to harm the creature, but rather just scare it away.

Bill fired five shots 15 feet above the animal's head. Bill expected the big foot to retreat and for the woods to go silent. Instead, the opposite happened. The forest erupted with sounds of. of groaning, knocking, and other animalistic cries. Bill told the filmmakers that he then realized there were many more of the creatures and that they may have thought he killed one of their own. In addition to these accounts, the show reports at least 12 other Bigfoot sightings out of Missouri. What do you think now? Bigfoot's family's pissed. That's Bigfoot's family. For sure. Right? It's like

meet the clumps, but it's all Bigfoot's and they're all dressed different. He's like Grandpa Bigfoot. It's like, did someone just shoot junior out there and grandma Bigfoot? Yeah, they're all dressed. That's great. The knocking. Could be. Yeah. Family back there.

They're grieving. I mean, if you don't come for the family. Right. It's like a mob of a literal mafia of Bigfoot. It's true. I mean, I'm sure if it is like a mammal that would travel that way, like you would see a primate or something like that. If it has some sort of primate aspects, y'all are the vet techs.

I'm speaking out of turn. Like, I know something about animals, but I have been watching that Morgan Freeman show on Netflix our universe. So they get down into like chimpanzees and stuff. But right. I think if it's a tribal kind of a group living together, if they heard shots and new one was missing, they might call out. I mean, the reason that I love Bigfoot so much other than the fact that I was just kind of like indoctrinated from your dad. Yeah, my dad basically. Yeah. Brainwashed me. But as I've gotten older, you know, it's like nostalgic to think about Bigfoot in a way for me, but I've truly always held on to it more so than, you know, I love like Champ and Nessie and like the Mothman and other things.

It's fun. But like Bigfoot is a different thing for me, I think, and a lot of other people, because there is, there's legitimacy to it that really does make you question. Like all of these sightings and reports have a common thread of behavior that has been. observed and noted and very well documented in other primate species around the world. And it's just like, how is this happening? And all this specific type of behavior all across the board. And we can connect it to a known living species that is very well studied. And that for me is like kind of the pin in it for me. The pen in it? Yeah. It goes and pushes the big foot one step further than kind of the other myths we hear. And yeah, I've always said that like the dent.

The vastness of the Mark Twain National Forest. Or any forest. Or yeah. Pacific Northwest, especially. A lot of these protected areas where you can't say, well, we've searched every single inch of every single part of the forest of like, what if there is a primate species out there? And I know some people will be like whatever scientific reasons know, but let me have my Bigfoot.

I just want to believe it's harmless. Come on. I do have a question, though, because this is what you always hear from name's biggie. Biggie. That's name has already been taken. But we can. Yeah, Bigfoot. What did Biggie?

think about Bigfoot. Corius Biggie. Why do you think they've never found a body? Or have they? And some of these people that claim, you know, that they have them, do you think that that's legitimate? As far as what I think that I have two kind of schools of thought. Number one, the first one, which would be really cool, is if Bigfoot is real.

And allegedly, if he is real. And they live in these troop-like. family structures. We've noted in primates that they have a lot of behaviors that also attribute to grieving and funerary rituals. And like if they're sophisticated as far as like what we think, like when we think of Bigfoot, we're like they're so smart and this and that, whatever. Like what if they're burying their deceased or hiding them in some sort of way and some sort of funeral ritual? But the other one, if that's, you know, too woo-woo for people, there are a lot of animals that we don't find complete skeletons of ever really in the forest just because of

the nature of how the woods are animals scavenging, especially if they're in the depths of, you know, the interior of parks or forests that are not frequented by human visitors. You're not going to just stumble across one easily if they're hidden deep in the depths of the forest and other animals coming to scavenge them, scattering their bones, the weather, the elements. There's a lot of reasons that... compelling mycelium don't the mushrooms take and like absorb things into the ground and then grow back stuff back up decomposition yeah like they decomposed things christie showed me fantastic fungi if you haven't watched this documentary you were at the Denver show you guys were on a kick with that yeah we were real obsessed with that and like no but it's like interesting when you think about it does things get like absorbed back down in there like these carcasses so I do I really appreciate that explanation because I have not had a cogent response and people are like if big foot so real why haven't you found a body I'm like my friend did you She said that we don't need to find one and he's out there.

So take that. There you go. They're like, this is an R.B. Please drive through. And I'm like, anyway. Deep beneath its surface, the forest houses and network of caves dating back centuries.

Some believe a quote, Hall of Records containing history, artifacts, and medicine of a lost civilization is located in one of the many caves. Local historian Charles Teague set out in search the cave after hearing the legends. After searching for years, Teague claims to have discovered the location of the cave in the Mark Twain National Forest. He says it is underneath the Missouri Mystery Mound, a location he found after mapping fault

lines in the area. Well, now you guys have a job. You got to go to the Missouri Mystery Mound on one of your expeditions and see if you can find this because also perhaps the Hall of Records contains the Bigfoot's. And this is one of those cases, I think, where there is a real legitimate storied history of this mystery mound. And yet we have a local expert in finger quotes who's like, you know, it's in there. And you're like, I don't think that's probably what's in there. There's only one way to find out.

You got to go in. Mark of the Covenant. Everything is buried down there. So they think. Big foot. Cassie is a huge fan of caves. Oh, are you? No, I hate it.

Oh, you're not. Okay. All right. I am claustrophobic and Danielle has managed to bring me in a cave on almost every trip we've ever done together. Well, good for you for going and conquering your fear. Yeah, immersion therapy. I have, there's a threshold of the size of cave that I'm probably willing to go into. We are notorious episode 13.

I was just thinking about that. But that's more of cave diving. Yeah, we covered a disappearance of Ben McDaniel, which it's this kind of a closed off natural water spring in Florida that has caves. So you go down and dive in these caves and there's no exit. Like you dive down and you come back up and he dove down and wasn't in there and wasn't on the surface. So went missing after cave diving. But some of the footage of other divers that have gone down there, the caves are maybe the width and breadth of like the human body. Like you barely, barely fit through and then pop in, you know, pop.

out on the other side and there's another opening, but you either have to go back the way you came or there's another little tiny sidewindery way, not to mention you have to have scuba tanks and all that with your tanks are like, if this is the top of the cave, the tank is like and then your stomach is on the bottom. So you're like slithering through. It is for claustrophobic people, I don't, even if you're not, it's a lot, but I could never. What I'm saying is if you want to make yourself sick and go look at the video. Yeah. You want to have a panic attack. Go look at that. stuff. But the caves y'all have been in or walkthroughs, I'm assuming. Yeah, well, there's no diving. There's no diving on a hunt. I can't even snorkel well.

Never mind. Oh, same. Yeah, it's hard. How do you not get water in your mouth? I've never figured it up. Danielle, do you pick out caves on particular to take Cassian or it just so happens, y'all are there and it's like, well, we should go. There's a cave right here. It's kind of like that. It's kind of like that. Except she's like, I feel like everywhere we go, we're going somewhere that's not cave related and she's like caves near blah blah blah that's like us but escape rooms so that's what we like to do on our tours is we're like there's probably an escape room around here right oh look there's one right there let's just stop in escape rooms are so fun yeah but you might just like a cave a cave is an escape room with no timer on it and no one to let you out and also not an employee that

is going to let you out if you can't find your way that's true well teague is confident he knows the whereabouts of the Hall of Records, but told mysteries of the outdoors that he has been unsuccessful in gaining access. Every time he's tried, armed men have shown up, demanding he leave the area. Tee believes they are protecting something

they don't want the public to find, telling Discovery Plus, it's an underground depository of ancient artifacts from all over the world that have been deposited in one area in the middle of the United States in a cave. And the ancient artifacts of treasures is protected. people were not welcome here you have a question yes we all do it's yours so many questions for this guy

how does like where did this stance come from that he just knows this well that's a good question I think um yeah you know I think he might be a bit of a conspiracy theorist and has taken bits and pieces from different legends to form his own. But there is footage, like video footage of him showing up at areas at this area and are the people in it, actors that are participating with him or are they really military men? But some guys with some guns are like, you got to get out of here. Yeah.

So he's stumbled on to some sort of a protected area, but is it protected national forest land? And that's, you know, Rangers or Department of the Interior employees. he's going like, hey, there's a mother bear and her cubs are over here, like, but they don't tell them all that information or the government doesn't want us to know that they moved everything from area 51 under the big hump in the middle of Missouri. But maybe that's why Missouri is the show me state because you have people rolling around going, guess what's in that forest? And they're like, show me. Really? Let's go. I don't even know if it has to be that there's an underground cave, but I for sure think, because I think the government is up to a lot of stuff. But it's so wouldn't

surprise me if there's a protected area within a forest that might be some sort of testing facility testing area and they're kind of like stranger things right and there are armed people protecting it for your safety but mostly theirs for there's you all ever been on a hike and you come across like a fence or something that says do not enter no trespassing and you get like a hmm wonder what's back there feeling i have a couple of times and national park sites um throughout time. I mean, I'm not talking about like Yellowstone or Yosemite right now, but they've been used for some things that have had like top security clearance type of situations. I mean, the first one that comes to mind in my head is White Sands right outside of White Sands National Park.

Yeah. There's the White Sands Missile Range and it's a top secret military testing facility that borders pretty much all of white sands there you go so yeah there's so much coverage like aerial coverage not being able to see things because of the density of trees there's all sorts of stuff going in there we don't know about bigfoot's government oh yeah say that's a good point because my uncle was stationed somewhere that they were able to shoot this is my uncle who was a near do well in the military he's in god he's 80 now so he was like in korea like a long time ago but he talks about that he when he was around that area new mexico and he goes yeah we shot him off into the woods something I was like, where did they go?

And he's like, I don't know. Shot what off? Just practice artillery. Oh, guns. So they were shooting, no, like big ass. Oh, missiles. Yeah, not quite a missile. But yeah, I mean, and he's just like, yeah, we just shot him over there.

But I wonder if those areas they know, okay, these are areas where stuff could rain down from the sky. Don't go past these fences for these. It's like the foul ball area at a baseball game. Like live missile heads, yeah. They tested the first atomic bomb there. Yeah. At white stands? Yep.

Wow. There's a new movie coming about that called Oppenheimer about Los Alamos and testing and developing the atomic bomb. Oh, interesting. My experience with White Sands was going there for a middle school trip in eighth grade and we all took buses there and then we intertubed down them. They didn't let you on the lab and be like, we did not go to a government testing facility to my knowledge. They wiped you. Don't press this button. Yeah.

Or I got men in black and I don't remember any of it. And I'm chipped. They wiped your brain afterwards. Yeah, your chip got reset. Well, though theories on supernatural incidents in the forest have gained popularity, for families who have lost loved ones in the Mark Twain National Forest, the horrors they face are undeniably real. The Charlie Project, a publicity vehicle and clearinghouse of information for missing persons,

lists several currently missing persons associated with the Mark Twain National Forest, including Patrick Chapman, a sociable friendly father of one. Patrick was living in O'Fallon, Missouri, working as a tow truck driver. He was last seen around 10 p.m. on the night of May 1st, 2020. According to the Aware Foundation, Patrick had gone to Mill Spring, Missouri to stay with a friend. That friend got up around 4 a.m. to go to work and noticed Patrick and his Burgundy, 1995 Ford Escort, were both gone. On May 29, Patrick's car was found about a half mile from the Millspring Cemetery on a four-wheeler path in the Mark Twain National Forest. Authorities found his wallet, ID, and other personal items in his car.

A devoted father of his young son, his family believes that he would never have left the boy willingly. His family has established a Facebook page to gather tips and recruit volunteers to help search. According to posts, although his wallet and ID were in the car, his cash was taken. The page also states that his car was completely wiped of fingerprints. So y'all have a lot of experience with missing persons in National Forest. Do you have theories about these types of things? I think it's very strange that all the prints were wiped in the car. Yeah.

Because we see all the time people, if their cars break down, or we specifically did a story in Death Valley where someone's car broke down and they ended up walking across the valley to try and get help and they didn't end up making it. But to see someone leave their car and maybe forget their wallet because they're in a panic or something, but to have everything wiped clean is very weird. Yeah. Because who wipes their car and cash taken? Yeah. And cash taken too. Yeah. And we've also seen a couple of cases pop up whether or not we've covered them or considered covering them where it may be unsolved, which most of them unfortunately are. But when we're researching and putting all the pieces together, we see that there are people of interest that happen to be like known serial killers that have been operating in the areas. that obviously can't be pinned to that specific case, but it kind of gets your wheels turning.

Yeah. This seems like a lot of a huge coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. It's the coincidence for me. Like at some point, it's no longer just bad luck. If there's, like you said,

why would you, unless you were intentionally wanting to go missing or someone took you, I don't know why your car would be wiped down a fingerprints. No, that makes sense. And to your point, Danielle talking about serial killers operating. If the Mark Twain National Forest spans 29 counties, if you don't have a cohesive, unified response

and sharing of information among law enforcement agencies, yeah, you're right. You could, if you're on one edge of the forest, like super far hundreds of miles from the last time you did this to a person, and you know if you just ditch their car in the forest and, you know, aren't too obvious. Maybe just wear gloves next time instead of wiping it all the way down, then you would be able to get away with things like this.

You know, whether it's a one-off in an instance, you know, if there's somebody that knew him or a happenstance, you know, a crime of opportunity to steal the money, or a repeat offender who's doing these things. If you chose a large area where the elements are dangerous, that just gives you reasonable doubt if you ever do get caught. We're like, how do you know it was me? Hey, jury, isn't it possible that we were here together and he dropped me off? That's why my fingerprints were in his car. And then he just went to the forest by himself and he just walked off. It would make sense as a magnet for trying to basically cover your tracks. Yeah, for sure. Patrick's family continues. a search by using drones, walking the forest, and soliciting the public for tips. Even though the

police have not officially declared this a homicide, Patrick's family is looking for any possible suspects who may have caused his disappearance. He is officially endangered slash missing. Anyone with information on the disappearance is urged to contact the Wayne County Sheriff's Department at 573-224-3-3-19. One major barrier to publicizing the search efforts for missing people in the national parks is the lack of a reliable centralized database maintained by the Department of the Interior, the parent organization of the National Park Service, or NPS. While the NPS does maintain a list of active cold cases, experts estimate it does not necessarily include all persons who have gone missing. This is where it's so creepy to me that you can literally just disappear and there's no, no record of it,

because there's no record of who goes in or out, really. That's true, yeah, unless your family knows. Yeah. Yeah. And that website, I mean, we have visited frequently. And it's true, like there's cases on there that, of course, they've gone cold decades ago. They're still there. But you know that it's not really that extensive of a list. Yeah. Like there's, you know, a couple dozen people on there. But you know that just based off of hearing the news every day or researching what we do, like there are many, many, many more people that should be on some type of. list. I understand that's a cold case list. It's kind of categorized different. But it's true. It's so hard to keep track. And even when, you know, there's, as far as finding people in forests, it's so, so difficult. Even with a huge search and rescue team with helicopters, infrared, canine teams, volunteers, law enforcement, we have covered a lot of cases. And there's one that we haven't covered that comes to mind right away. The Geraldine Large case, there's a book written about her. And it's called When You Find My Body.

And she was hiking the AT. And she went off to go to the bathroom or something and got turned around. And they didn't find her body for a really long time. And she had written a note. It says, When You Find My Body to her family. Oh, God. Because she knew that she was probably not going to survive. She was a nurse.

She knew a lot. But still. She wasn't far from the trail either. It wasn't far from the trail. When her body was found, she wasn't that far. Yeah, you get turned around. I have a terrible sense of direction. And, I mean, Heather, can it.

Like, even walking around a mall, I'm, like, reliance on other people to tell me where it's come from there. Where I am. So it's so scary to think that, yeah, if you're not familiar with something or there's a lot of tree coverage and you can't really tell, like, sun and stuff. Yeah, you get so turned around. Isn't there a term for it when, um, People feel that disorientation in a forest and they kind of like lose their bearings. Am I making that up? I thought there was a specific term.

Know it. We should know it. I don't know what it is. But to y'all's point a minute ago, like, it could be something where you really do get turned around and you, the elements get the better of you. But if it is someone that is a serial killer or a crime of opportunity of someone else on the Appalachian Trail, I think law enforcement and Parks Department, A lot of time they can just say, well, it's a national park.

A lot of stuff can go wrong here. So murder is going to be at the bottom of the list because we don't want everybody to think there's a murderer out here. It's more likely they were attacked by an animal, got lost, fell off a cliff, et cetera. But could be that there's a lot more sinister things happening and it's just super easy to cover it up that way. And that's what some people argue. Yeah.

And it is because a lot of these national parks, I mean, when you go into these places that are so remote, people having. mishaps and dying from the elements or some type of injuries are the more common thing that you're going to see. So I think a lot of times it's really hard for people to immediately assume something like that is going on. But in that same breath, these are the places where there's so much opportunity for that to happen because it's so remote and because I feel like it is so much harder to investigate. We talk about it a bit on the podcast, but to pick up evidence from a ground or the outdoors versus a room, an indoor room, is so much harder.

Yes. And just how it's been impacted and maybe it has been, you know, decomposed by mushrooms in the forest or an animal, or bites it up or bleached by the sun. Yeah, washed out, washed down the river, it's further from. That's a good point versus if it's a controlled space where the crime happened and now nothing is going to move. It's like the crime happened and nature goes on.

Yeah. And it's going to, yeah, muck up the crime scene. David Politis, author of Missing 411, told you, journalist John Billiman that he believes the number of those who go missing is so significant that the NPS must keep the real figures hidden, saying, it would shock the public so badly that visitor numbers would fall off a cliff. When Politas filed a Freedom of Information Act request to the NPS on all the data on missing persons, he was told it would cost him $1.4 million in fees, according to the Daily Dot. That said, Politis doesn't necessarily agree with the sentiments,

viral videos in the past few years that caricatirized national parks as dangerous places where people are more likely to go missing and accuse the government of hiding the true numbers of missing persons. And there was probably in 2021, 2022, there were a couple of viral videos that came out where people were on. I think, you know, like you said, there's what you said earlier, Danielle, like, there's so many national parks. There's so many people that visit it. So of course, if you just say, like, the number of people in the whole entire United States population that are missing is this percentage. and this number of people, and you look at it as a percentage, versus this is how many people visit all these national parks a year,

and this percentage goes missing, and it's in line with the baseline, or maybe slightly higher due to it's just a little bit, you know, people overestimate their skill set or whatever. But it was, and I'm curious y'all's take. And like I said, the last, you know, year or two where you do see TikTokers, maybe people that are not necessarily actually going out to national parks and visiting them going,

this is a hotbed for, you're going to get snatched. if you go to the national park. Like, they show the maps with all the like, pinpoints of like cluster. And Politis does that in his series too of like the cluster parts. And then, you know, things in these areas have all been reported before somebody goes missing. A storm or they were with a group and then they just weren't there. Right.

My question to y'all is like, do you see your show is maybe hopefully saying yes, things happen in parks, but here's why. But please, you should still go. Yeah. I mean, our entire thing is that we. still want people to go visit the outdoors wherever it be, a park or not. And to also be realistic and realize the dangers, I think that with social media when we talk about TikTok and things like that, we're also seeing this huge jump in do it for the gram. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And we're seeing

people who are making mistakes where sometimes people lose their lives over it because they're trying to get these photos that are not realistic to get or people are disrespecting wildest. And a lot with our show is we try to highlight that things do go wrong and highlight the dangers that are here. But there's so much fun to be had here if you follow the right precautions. Yeah, for sure. Yes, yeah. Politas said in an interview. I don't think there's a grand conspiracy to keep the numbers hidden, but the National Park Service

certainly doesn't advertise that there are dozens of still missing visitors in Grand Canyon or Yosemite and a county sheriff isn't going to put a missing person on his reelection poster. And I think that's the key, right? Right. Politis says it's dozens of still missing people. It's not hundreds of millions. Yeah. Like it's not like...

The odds are in your favor if you visit a national park that you're going to have a great time. Yeah. So we should all operate under that and not live in fear that we can't go to one because we might get sucked up by an alien or a big foot. Unless, that's what you're trying to do. I'm trying. If you guys got the hot tip of where I can get taken by the UFO. I love if they're nice. Trying to Travis.

That's always my caveat in kick because I'm. I know they're listening. I want to go if y'all are cool and I get to come back. I'm happy to go visit, but I don't want to be taken up there forever because I got kids and a husband that I got to get back to. And a pig and a dog. If we get taken by aliens, I bet it's going to be like Kate McKinnon and Cecily Strong on SNL where you're going to be like, I was held in a beautiful source of light.

And I'm going to be like, they slapped my knockers around. Are you sure that that's, we get taken by the same ship? I ended up on a wall of alt-truth. And you're like, I was laid in my bed and cradled and pure. love and I was like they asked me if I want to smothered her cover but I still do want to get taken I'm down for that I'm down for it all of it well please tell us if you guys do I've been asking my whole life and it's never happened if given the opportunity would if an alien approached you and said hey there's room for you you're you're you got you got to you got to come now though would you go yeah yeah

I'm over this this uh lifetime and plan go on ready go see what it's got I'm good I'm good I'll stay here. I saw an alien and I can still do that. What? You saw an alien? No, no, no. I'm saying if that happened to me, I could be like,

I saw an alien. Oh my God. We've been talking for nearly two hours and we're just now finding out you saw an alien. When the hell you're holding back on us, rude? I was very concerned. I wouldn't open with that if I had actually. I mean, if I had seen an alien,

any person I ever met forever, that's how I would open it. Hey, my name's Beverly. My daughter also goes to the school. and Christy's like, Christy Wallace, Ellis, Ella's mom, seen an alien.

You want to hear about it? It's gray head, big, roundhead. And she's like, oh, I'm sorry. I brought cookies for the TCA meeting. I've got a, you're like, you know, who doesn't like cookies. Alias. I hate them.

They all eat canned tuna. I don't know why. Like they just be cats. God. One of the worst things they could have consumed for us. Listen, you don't want to come on this UFO. It stinks up here and it's riddled with tuna cans. Every time we turn in space, it just,

they just fall to one side. They're so recycled. up here. We think they're so organized and clean. It's a total different word. Imagine if you found that out there just hoarders and it's like disgusting up there. Oh no. They're like we have every nice. Yeah. National Geographic. That's what I would do. I'd be like, I will come aboard. But I'm going to need to stop by the container store first because I like to have everything organized. Then I'll come aboard and we'll home edit your spaceship. I need one thing before I go and you grab your home edit book. I'm ready. That's why we came for you.

We need to help. You're the chosen one. Yeah. Politis doesn't write off, though, that unexplainable forces may be at play. Popular theories include government testing, serial killers, and Bigfoot. Politis notes that with all of these scenarios, tracks and evidence would be left, something that is never found by search and rescue. Additionally, it would be quite difficult for a body to be carried for a long distance in that terrain.

Of all the scenarios that have been presented to Pilitis, he says people, accidentally stumbling through a portal to another dimension, checks all the boxes for the commonalities he has found with the disappearances. However, he is quick to say in interviews that he doesn't necessarily think that is what's happening. I mean, you got to save it at the end. You're like, makes the most, I don't think that though. Of course. But not that I think that, but if it were happening, if I did think something. He talks about like several people that have come to him that have been walking down a trail and then they see like you know how if you're driving and it's real hot and it looks you know like yeah wavy like a wavy line and then one of them like kind of put

their hand through and it disappeared so they turned and ran the other way I'm going through you go through the portal in the woods Cassie Danielle are you all doing it no yeah like like I said I'm just I'm ready to just yes he's head first fog the home and I'll be like I saw a portal in the woods I threw a rock through it don't know what happened. happened to it. Cassie, you're truly a world traveler because you're like, I was there, I saw it, I don't need to take anything with me, and I don't need to do anything. Leave no trace.

Leave no trace. But Danielle is a true explorer, like, headfirst. I'm in. I'm going. I'm going. I'm done. Yes. Noting the lack of publicly available information. Outdoor enthusiast and graduate student at the University of Texas at San Antonio, Josh Leal launched the website

Missing in U.S. national parks and forests at missing npf.com. in October of 2020. The website was created with the goal of supplying a centralized resource for those with an interest in supporting investigative efforts. Those with missing loved ones can add their stories to the database and those looking for ways to help can visit the site for more information. The National Park Service does maintain a database of its cold cases, though some experts have called for more transparency. If you have any information on an open case, you can call or text the NPS tip line at 888653-0-009.

Send an email to NPS underscore ISB at nps.com or fill out the tip form on their website. To access Liel's newly created database, you can visit missing npf.com. And that's the Mark Twain National Forest. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Bringing us. Well, on our show, we always say at the end.

So what do we think? What do we think about everything here? I think that I'm still down to go to Mark Twain National Forest, despite everything that we just learned. Yes. Because of everything we just learned. I think if there's supernatural stuff, if there's some, we can see an object to find, you know, a clue or something, we could help out. A portal. A portal. A government testing facility.

It has it all. I think that there's definitely some things up there for sure that are undeniable. As far as like if I subscribe to all of the details and everyone's descriptions, I don't know. But the one thought that I kind of left with that we've talked about before a little bit, depending on what story we're covering, we're all about the paranormal. We're all about, like, obviously learning more about different theories and cryptids and phenomenons. And we both have very open minds to it. It's when people start pinning that's the reason for someone's missing loved one.

Yes. That is a little, like, too far. Yeah, 100%. So when there's some like, you know, we come across a lot of articles, especially if it's in a place that there is a lot of paranormal activity otherwise, a lot of people are like, well, it has to be because Bigfoot abducted them. And it's like if that was your loved one, right? And that was the theory going around. Like, how would you react to that? Yeah. Yeah. So I just hope that like, because as you mentioned, there's kind of a big spike in TikTok and socials. with the whole national park thing and visiting the outdoors and conspiracy theories. And it's just like for anyone who's doing that content creation to maybe just think a little bit before you throw out some wild. Yes.

Right. Yeah. If a kid goes missing in a national forest, let's not immediately jump to well. Bigfoot must have. Or like, oh, it was a portal, a fay trap or whatever. Yeah. Let's put the resources out there. Real people on the ground to go looking for him.

Please share the story. the call to action, the pictures, but yeah, you're right. Don't sully that story. And I think that's, I love that about your show and I love that about you all because you do have that ability to say, this case recovering is we need to do Occam's Razor, right? Like true facts. This is a person's loved one is at stake to bring them home. But then also have an appreciation when the time is appropriate, the third man factor, right?

We're not going to dismiss someone who said, no, I was there, whether it was Mount Everest or coming out of the last tower on 9-11. And like you can't dismiss someone's lived experience. So I love that about you all. And I think that's why we feel so connected with you. Yeah. We are always definitely victims first and victims family. We like to say we don't want to say anything that if the family of a victim was listening would, you know.

Rake their heart more. Yeah. That it would be. I'm sure perhaps even just hearing the story, of course, is triggering. But we don't ever want to make a concrete, you know, statement. Yeah. Or add to the noise. Yeah, especially when it is, you know, paranormal, a bit woo-woo.

I think it, like you said, if somebody says, I saw Bigfoot, I know what I saw, fired a gun above his head, that's great. Like Bill the Hunter. Yeah. But if it's like somebody's loved one, we found their car and the cars wiped down, it's probably not Bigfoot. We should probably be looking for him and somebody else perhaps. Yeah, exactly.

And that's the line that has to be walked, I think, with everything. And it's, you know, Cassie did. of your first episode you ever did was about a disappearance of a young boy in the Smoky Mountains, right? Remember? Yeah, it was a couple episodes in. But yeah. Dennis Martin.

Dennis Martin. And the whole thing that any time you look up his case, like the headlines and the clickbaity stuff is it was cannibals. Oh. A cannibals in the Great Smoky Mountains. And it's like, okay, well, let's like get through those weeds a little bit and get down to what truly happened that day. Obviously, it's unsolved.

And Cassie did a great job. doing a deep dive in it, but there's like so much more to it than that. That's a good point too. And like, you know, I think it's if people write that, they're trying to get the clicks exactly what you're saying versus we what, what is the purpose of this episode and our purpose is to cover it, provide information, what information does the public need to at all maybe have, hey, you know what, my cousin goes camping there every summer. Maybe he saw some mama send this episode to him.

Something like that versus if you see that headline that's like, cannibals take boy into forest, you, the average viewer might go. oh, I'm going to read that, but they're focused on the sensational. It's not going to help and it definitely does to try to add to the noise and and then imagine that little boy's parents. His family, yeah. And like when you've worked, I mean, we both have had jobs where we worked with victims of crime one to one.

And like you can't, once you do that, right, you can't imagine ever, you know. And you all, and I think the same like vet techs like being in a service industry where it is a skilled profession where you're also one to one with people going through a grief that you can't really. I mean, you can relate to, but right, everybody's. grief is different that I think you bring that empathy to the show and we appreciate that. Yeah. For sure.

Thank you. Yes. Well, we are also huge fans of your show obviously. Thank you so much. We loved having you on. And of course, we did a little Freaky Friday segment. So that was fun as well. Yes.

We hope everybody loved that. Thank y'all again for coming on our Freaky Friday. And if your listeners haven't checked out your appearance already, they can come over to our feed and check out. Yes. Yes. Please do. Yeah.

And what are you guys up to? I know you're bopping around. Yeah. Oh, well, we're on tour right now. Danielle was so nice to come to our show. And you said you really enjoyed it. I did.

I really did. It was so funny. Danielle plug. That's all. Yeah. That's what I want. We're on tour with our full moon energy tour. So you can go to sinisterhood.com slash live shows for information on all the plate.

We're about to be on the West Coast. Yes. And then San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston will be in Brooklyn, Washington, D. Detroit, Pittsburgh, et cetera. So a lot of places to go this summer. So we're all going to be traveling. Yeah. And then on socials, where can they find us?

Yeah, you can find us on Instagram at Sinisterhood Pod. Facebook is at Sinisterhood. TikTok and YouTube is Sinisterhood podcast. And listen to Sinisterhood. Wednesdays we drop our episodes where we cover, like you said, anything sinister. And Fridays we have our listener stories with sometimes amazing guests like you all. So we appreciate that. Anywhere you get podcasts.

Yeah. Anywhere you get podcasts, you can hear us. And thank you so much. This has been so much fun. and they'll have a delight to talk to. So thank you so much for having us. For sure. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. This is so much fun. And we learned a lot today for about a place we've never visit in real life or for the podcast. So it's really cool. We love that. Awesome. All right. We'll talk soon. In the meantime, everyone, enjoy the view. But watch you're back.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at Stories at NPADPodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast. Join our Outsiders-only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad-free, unlock monthly bonus episodes, and exclusive content. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you are supporting our show. For our exclusive discount codes and source information from today's episode, check out the show notes. For more information on our show, our book recommendations,

merch updates, and more, visit our website at npaddpodcast.com. And please rate, review, and subscribe from wherever you listen to podcasts. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount.

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