National Park After Dark - England’s Most Notorious Witch Trial: Pendle Forest
Episode Date: October 26, 2026In 1612, a chance encounter on a road in rural Lancashire sparked an accusation of witchcraft that would grow into one of the most notorious witch trials in English history. As one accusation led to a...nother, old rivalries resurfaced, family members turned against one another, and stories of curses, familiars and secret gatherings drew more and more people into the investigation. What began with one young woman would soon engulf an entire community, leaving families destroyed and multiple people condemned to the gallows. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodes For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! ButcherBox: Get $20 off your first box, plus chicken breast in every box for life or filet or NY strips for a year, with free shipping always. Podcast Special Offer Nutrafol: Get $15 off your first month's subscription and free shipping with promo code NPAD. https://nutrafol.com Article : Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit Contemporary, Mid Century & Modern Furniture | Article and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Contemporary, Mid Century & Modern Furniture | Article Shop: Enter to win the one-million-dollar Shop Cash giveaway, from now until November 1. One thousand shoppers will each win $1,000 in Shop Cash. https://shop.com No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at SHOP-DOT-COM. SimpliSafe Get 70% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring. Visit SimpliSafe.com/NPAD and write NATIONAL PARK AFTER DARK at checkout to support the show. https://simplisafe.com/NPAD Fi: Get up to 30% off and free shipping on Fi GPS and health trackers for your pets with promo code NPAD. https://fitracking.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Most of us are familiar with the Salem Witch Trials. In 1692, accusations of witchcraft tore through the small community of Salem, Massachusetts. Women were accused of appearing in dreams to torment their neighbors, of causing mysterious illnesses, harming children, and making packs with the devil. Bridget Bishop was accused of bewitching a child and sending her spirit to torment people before becoming the first person executed during the Salem Witch trials. Sarah Good, a homeless mother who survived.
by begging from her neighbors, was accused alongside her four-year-old daughter Dorothy. Dorothy
was imprisoned for nearly eight months, while Sarah's other daughter, an infant named Mercy,
was imprisoned alongside her mother and died in jail before Sarah herself was eventually
hanged. In Salem, more than 200 people were accused of witchcraft and 19 were hanged.
Today, Salem has become infamous for their witch trials. Their story has been
been retold in books, movies, documentaries, museums, and classrooms, and the names of its victims
are still remembered more than three centuries later. Yet Salem was not the beginning.
80 years earlier, across the Atlantic, another small community had been torn apart in remarkably
similar ways. In the isolated countryside of Lancashire, England, families accused one another
of using curses and supernatural powers to cause illness and death.
Their story would become one of the most notorious witch trials in British history.
Yet today, especially outside of England, it remains overshadowed by the events that unfolded
in Salem generations later.
Today, we are going back to 1612, to the villages and farms beneath England's Pendle Hill Forest,
where one encounter between a young woman and a traveling peddler would begin at
chain of accusations that would destroy families and send people to the gallows.
History often tells us that they burned witches at the stake.
The reality is that they burned women.
They tortured women.
They imprisoned women.
And they hung women.
Welcome to National Park After Dark.
Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark.
My name is Danielle.
And I'm Cassie.
And it's Halloween.
Happy Halloween.
Yeah, Halloween week almost Monday, Halloween Saturday this year.
Hope you all have some good plans.
I do not.
I can't even talk about it.
I don't have plans either.
I actually have right now, you know, when like your nerves are shot and people are like, I need a cigarette.
Yeah.
I don't smoke.
So if you ever see me with a McDonald's Coke,
found coke
That is your cigarette
That's my I'm chain smoking right now
Wow
So Halloween
I'd see the day
Halloween week
is a little different this year
But
The dogs have some cute costumes
That's for sure
And that's important
And that's the most important thing
I haven't even thought of
What I would dress Ember or Tucker up in
Have they ever? Have you ever dressed them up as anything? No. Not even Tucker. Tucker's been around for like 10 years. I know. Not that I can remember. I don't think so. He would be cute as if you just painted him like as a skeleton like glow paint white. Because he's so jet black. You know? Yeah. That would be really cute. I'd have to take him trick or treating if we did that. Yeah, he'd have to show it off somewhere. Yeah. He couldn't just.
stay home if I did all that work.
No.
Next year.
Because I know you're not going to do it.
We're going down to the wire.
I don't think it's going to happen this year.
But next year you could be a skeleton, maybe.
Well, your intro has me very intrigued because I did say I didn't want to hear shit about the Salem witch trials again or something like that.
And this is not the Salem witch trials, but it is a witch trial.
which I had never heard of before.
And I know that they've happened in other places outside of the U.S.,
but of course because we're so close to Salem, Massachusetts,
that's what we have always focused on.
So this was really interesting for me
and a learning experience for me to dive into England's,
one of their most notorious switch trials.
They've had a few, but this is one of their most notorious for sure.
Yeah.
And again, if you didn't hear me in the previous episode,
and I was like, please, I'm begging you to look into other witch trials, not trying to diminish
how awful Salem's witch trials were.
I mean, they went down in history for a reason.
But I just want to broaden my horizons when it comes to, and, you know, broaden my education
when it comes to witch trials because I know that this isn't the only one.
And it just felt like that growing up because of our proximity to,
Salem and obviously it's U.S. based as well. So anywho, I'm also looking forward to this.
Yeah. And I think especially around Halloween, witches are always top of mind. And Halloween has kind of turned witches into something that is really fun. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, I dressed up as a witch for Halloween for like five years in a row.
It's such a easy. I mean, it's, you don't even think about it. Yeah. But I always just loved the idea of it. I was just like, I want to be a witch. You know, I want to be able to cast spells.
and have potions and heal people and have a black cat.
And, like, I don't know.
It was just like everything about it, I thought was really cool growing up.
But when you really dive into the history of it, it's really, really dark.
And it's actually just the bottom line of it is it's a horrific story against women.
And not quote unquote witches.
It's just it's atrocities towards women, which I also love learning about, unfortunately.
for me.
So today, I have a story from England in there witch trials.
So let's jump into it.
On Monday, March 18th, 1612, a young woman named Allison device and Allison, it's like Allison, but there's a Z.
So I'm going to try really hard.
Allison, kiss me, I'm Allison.
Do you know how that's from?
Yeah.
Okay, good.
Thank God.
Of course, I know.
Okay, I'm just.
making sure.
I wish I could follow up and continue the quote because I can picture the whole scene from
Hocus Pocus where it's like his little sister is like, kiss me, I'm Allison.
He's like, Danny.
Stop or like whatever, but I don't know like the exact quote.
And she's dressed as a witch.
She is dressed as a witch.
And it's true.
Well, this one is, her name is Allison with a Z device.
And she was walking along a road near the town of Klox.
in Lancashire, which is a county tucked into the northwestern English countryside.
Allison was desperately poor and lived with her family in Pendle Forest, which is an isolated rural
community spread beneath Pendle Hill, which rises more than 1,800 feet above sea level,
and the hill dominates the surrounding countryside, its summit overlooking miles of rolling
farmland valleys and open more land. It's just a really beautiful area. People had been drawn to this
landscape in particular for thousands of years. Long before Allison was born, a prehistoric
burial mound had been constructed on the summit of Pendle Hill during Britain's Bronze Age over 2,000
years earlier. The forest below had once been an ancient hunting ground inhabited by wolves and
wild boar, and by Allison's lifetime, small farms were scattered throughout the countryside
in this area. And I will say there's no national park in this episode.
and I apologize, but...
How dare you?
It's a forest.
It's a Pendle Hill Forest.
Pendle Forest is outside.
It's very outside, kind of sometimes.
It's okay.
My werewolf one was a hiking trail.
Yeah.
And hiking is a generous.
It was like a walking path.
It's Halloween.
It's Halloween.
I had to link it.
I had to link it.
Yeah.
There's a forest and I just told you about a hill.
That's the last year about anything outdoors.
Okay.
Thank you for listening. Okay. Well, Allison was out begging that day, something she and other members of her family regularly did to survive, because life in this part of Lancashire could be incredibly difficult. The region had endured centuries of war, disease and poverty, and conditions became even harsher as you traveled farther into Pendle Forest, where scattered families lived beyond the towns and farther from the reach of the central government.
long before Lancashire would become one of England's great textile centers, families like Allison's survived however they could through begging, labor, and folk healing.
As Allison traveled along the road that day, she encountered an older traveling peddler named John Law, who was walking through the area carrying a pack of goods on his pack.
Among the things he carried were metal pins, and Allison asked him for some.
What exactly happened next is unknown and has been argued.
Although Allison stated that she asked to buy the pins and John refused, while John's son, Abraham, said that Allison had had no money to pay for them and his father had graciously given her some anyway.
Whatever happened, whatever version of events unfolded there, at the end, the encounter apparently ended pretty badly.
According to John, Allison then became angry, the two separated and he continued along the road.
However, he didn't make it too far. Only moments later, John suddenly collapsed. His speech became
difficult to understand, and he lost movement along the left side of his body, symptoms that today
strongly resemble a stroke. He was eventually carried into an alehouse nearby where word of his
condition reached his son Abraham. When Abraham arrived several days later, his father was still
partially paralyzed and struggling to speak. And once he had recovered,
enough to explain what had happened, he told his son about the young woman he had encountered on the road
immediately before his collapse. In 1612, there was no medical explanation available to John Law for what
had happened to his body. So he's like, I don't know what could have happened, except I had this
uncomfortable encounter with a woman right before this. So he told his son that Allison Device had
bewitched him. Abraham tracked Allison down and brought her to his father's bedside where instead of
denying what she had supposedly done, Allison begged John for forgiveness. Not long afterwards,
when she was questioned by a local justice of peace named Roger Noel, her story became even more
extraordinary. According to the confession recorded against her, Allison claimed that a black dog
had appeared to her after the confrontation and offered to harm John, angry about the encounter.
she told it to lame him, and moments later, John fell. We will never know exactly what
Allison believed had happened on that road, but her confession had transformed John Law's sudden
illness into the work of the devil. She had admitted to witchcraft, and in England in 1612,
that was a crime punishable by death. The man who now found himself responsible for investigating
Allison was Roger Noel, that same local justice of peace who had questioned her prior.
Allison's confession was particularly dangerous in a place like Lancashire, which was already
being watched closely by the government for religious reasons. England had spent decades
being torn apart by the struggle between people who are Catholic and people who are Protestant.
In Lancashire remained one of the strongest centers for Catholic resistance in the whole country.
families continued practicing the old faith, sometimes secretly, and refusing to attend services of the Church of England, could bring punishment from the government.
In fact, in the same year that Allison encountered John Law, Lancashire's Justice of the Peace had been instructed to identify people in their community who refused to conform to the established church.
So when Allison sat before Roger Noel and told him that the spirit in the form of a black dog had offered her supernatural power,
he wanted to know more, not for good reasons. Religious suspicion was already enough to make Lancashire
a place of particular interest to men like Noel, but there was something else happening in England
that made Allison's confession even more dangerous. The king of England himself, James I, had become
fascinated with witchcraft, and firmly believed that people could make agreements with the devil and use
supernatural powers to harm others. James's interest in witchcraft had begun long before
Allison ever walked into Roger Noel's life. Years earlier, while James was still king of Scotland,
violent storms had disrupted voyages connected to his marriage to Anne of Denmark. In Denmark and
Scotland, people began claiming that the storms had been caused by witchcraft and James became
personally involved in investigations that followed. From there, his interest in witches, demons,
and the idea that people could enter into agreements with the devil grew considerably.
In 1597, James published Demonology, a book devoted to explaining how he believed witches and demons operated,
how they could be identified, and why they needed to be punished.
When Elizabeth I first died six years later and James inherited the English throne,
the man who had written extensively about the dangers of witchcraft became the King of England,
and thus brought his fear of witches with him.
And if any of this is sounding familiar to people, especially if you are on Patreon with us and you are part of our book club and you read How to Kill a Witch, that book talks about all of this much more extensively than what I'm jumping into.
Yeah, and it's all kind of coming together, at least for us.
It's a very niche experience.
But if you are also, if you're a part of our book club and also went to Scotland with us a couple months ago.
You know, we've been obsessed with this for the whole month of September and October.
September, October, yeah.
And we, because he is also the son of Mary Queen of Scots, who we also learned a lot about.
And yeah, his, it's a little crazy sometimes when you reflect back on history and can
pinpoint like oh all of this all the dominoes that fell started with this one person and this king
is that person when it comes to not only the Scottish witch trials that we learned a lot about
but now it's infiltrating England and just so many people lost their lives because of his
belief system and I mean he didn't well he wasn't born believing this like he was influenced by
others as well. I'm not saying it's solely his fault, but he's in such a position of power.
And writing books of just his opinion. And it's also kind of, I mean, I'm by no means,
like, educated on this. I just started learning about this a couple of months ago. But
there was some thing that, do you remember in the book how he made this like declaration where
essentially he was saying, hey, so just so everyone knows everything that I'm saying, not
only am I your king and you have to listen to me, but also it's God's word because God's talking
to me directly. So what I say is God's will. So not only should you listen to me because I'm
your king, but I'm the mouthpiece of God. So it's God's will whatever I want. And with this
whole religious where there was such a prominent religious fight going on at the same time.
To be like, I am your leader and I speak to God was huge.
Yeah.
For people to be listening to him and kind of respecting his ideologies.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So I'm sure we'll get further into that.
But yeah, it's just nuts.
And again, the Scottish witch trials were mind-blowing to learn about because I hadn't heard a breath of that.
And, you know, what night?
Was it 19 or 20 people lost their lives?
in Salem during our witch trials and in Scotland almost 4,000 people died.
4,000.
And we've always been focused on Salem and we're like 19.
That's horrible, which is, it is.
It's horrific.
But 4,000 is insane.
So, okay.
So he's writing demonology books.
James I first becomes the king of England.
He goes over there and with a.
a year of becoming the king, Parliament passed a new witchcraft act. Witchcraft had already been a crime
in England, but the 1604 law broadened the kinds of supernatural acts that could lead to execution.
Under their new law, causing someone's death through witchcraft remained a capital offense,
but a person could now also be sentenced to death for invoking or dealing with an evil spirit,
even if no one had died.
Right.
So nothing has to, so this like goes into like the sickness.
And if someone like gets injured or whatever doesn't mean someone had to die, you can be sentenced to death because someone suspects you prayed to the devil.
They would stub their toe or whatever.
And lesser acts of magic intended to harm someone or discover hidden or stolen property could bring imprisonment for a first offense and death for a second.
So they were really, really serious about it.
So Roger Noel wanted to know more about Allison, obviously, because she had just revealed that she saw a black dog, that she's participating in witchcraft, maybe has links to the devil.
And with all of this going on, he wants to know more of what's happening with her and what her connections might be.
Allison lived in Pendle Forest with her mother, Elizabeth DeVice, who was known locally as squinting Lizzie,
her brother James, her younger sister Janet, and her elderly grandma, Elizabeth Souther's,
better known throughout Pendle, as old Demdike also lived with her.
Her entire family was extremely poor, and Demdike, by then, around 80 years old and nearly
blind had spent decades begging and making a living in part through the reputation she had
developed as a healer or a wise woman. She practiced charms and folk healing for people in the
surrounding community, the kinds of traditions that could be sought out when someone needed help.
So she, it was basically like an early nurse. She just knew a lot of different herbal remedies.
People would come to her for things like infections, coughs, flus, stuff like that. But when
this whole witchcraft frenzy starts happening, that was easily interpreted as witchcraft.
Allison claimed that her grandmother had encouraged her to accept the help of a supernatural spirit,
something people at the time called a familiar.
Within older folk beliefs and magical traditions, helping spirits could be understood
as supernatural companions or guides, sometimes appearing in the form of animals or people
and assisting with things like healing and protection.
To people like King James and the authorities prosecuting witchcraft, however,
these spirits were interpreted very differently.
They believe familiars were demons connected to the devil,
sent to assist witches and carrying out supernatural acts.
So it's kind of like saying today,
if you have a spiritual connection with, I don't know, like a dragonfly,
where whenever you see a dragonfly, you know that that's kind of.
going to bring you something positive or good luck or like that's a sign for you that is witchcraft
and that is demon work to the English government under this school of thought if you could even
call it that yeah yes so Allison points to her grandmother and says she's part of this but she also
pointed Noel towards another woman in Pendle and Wittle better known as a
old Shattacks. Shaddix was another elderly woman who survived partly on begging and as a healer,
and she and Demdike had apparently been bitter rivals for years. The hostility between their
families went back at least a decade, and Alizon now accused Shaddix of using witchcraft to cause
several deaths, including that of her own father, John Device. John had died in 1601 after becoming
ill, but according to Allison, he had spent years terrified of what Shaddock might do to his family.
He was apparently so frightened of her that he agreed to give Shattuck's eight pounds of oatmeal
every year in exchange for her promise not to harm him, his family, or their property.
The arrangement continued for years until the payment was missed in the year John became sick.
As he lay dying, John reportedly became convinced that Shaddix had bewitched him and punished him
for failing to give her the oatmeal.
Of course, there's no way to know what illness had actually killed John because the
medicine just wasn't there at the time.
But 11 years later, his death became another accusation of witchcraft that Allison had given
to Roger Noel.
And maybe she was saying this because it was like, well, he died years ago.
Like maybe this will be swept under the rug kind of thing.
But he immediately thought, agreed that this could be witchcraft.
But it is important to remember that everything I've just told you about Allison's examination and her confession comes from the accounts written by the men who questioned and who eventually prosecuted her.
We don't know exactly what happened during those interrogations, how she was questioned, or what kind of pressure she may have been under when she made all of those statements.
But what we do know is that some of the methods used against people accused of witchcraft were horrific.
Suspects could be kept awake for days, stripped naked and searched for supposed marks left by the devil,
or repeatedly pricked with needles to find areas of skin that supposedly couldn't feel pain.
Others were tied up and lowered into water, where floating was considered evidence of witchcraft.
In Scotland, during the North Berwick witch trials of 50s,
1590 and 1591, a woman named Agnes Sampson was stripped, shaved, and searched for marks on her body.
Her interrogators also tightened a rope around her head to inflict terrible pain before she confessed to witchcraft.
Another accused woman was tortured with instruments designed to crush her fingers, while a man named John Fian was subjected to similar treatment, including a device that crushed his legs.
Oh my God, do you remember that one?
I forget what it was called the nickname for it that we saw in the Museum of Scotland.
But we saw the torture device.
Yeah.
And I just remember the detail of they would like do something, put your legs in them in some way and like hit them with a sledgehammer until your bones broke and the marrow like went into your boots.
Yeah.
To get you to confess.
And I mean, if you didn't die, you would be severely crippled for the rest of your life.
And I mean, I would confess under those type of circumstances, you know, like just kill me.
What is this?
Stop.
You know?
Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.
Shop online and get the same low, no frills prices delivered.
Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.
Learn more at no frills.ca.
Well, kind of circling back to why I think that those examples are really important.
important because these Scottish trials took place just over 20 years before the events at Pendle during the reign of King James, the six of Scotland, who later became King James the first of England. So during the same rule, same ruler, that she is now being questioned under these torture practices were happening in Scotland and now she's being questioned in England under the same king. So we do not know for sure if Allison was true.
treated enemy similarly, but given the ruler around the time and the panic around witches,
it is very, very likely that she was tortured during these questionings.
What we do know is that by the end of that examination from Roger Noel,
she had given names, and those names gave him new people to pursue for witchcraft.
On April 2nd, he summoned Old Demdike, Old Shaddix, and Shaddix's daughter.
and Redfern for questioning.
And this is when the investigation truly began to spiral.
Noel began with Allison's grandmother, Demdike.
When she was questioned, the surviving account records her admitting to practicing magic
and describing an encounter she claimed had happened decades earlier.
According to the statement attributed to her, Demdike said that while walking near a quarry,
she encountered a spirit named Tibb, who appeared first in the first in the first.
form of a young boy and later as a brown dog. She claimed that Tibb promised that if she gave him
her soul, she could have anything that she wanted. Demdike also reportedly confirmed much of what
Allison had already told Noel about their family and implicated old Shaddix in acts of witchcraft.
Then Noel questions the family's rival Shattacks, and Shaddix reportedly confessed to having a
familiar of her own and accused members of Demdike's family in return.
She also admitted to using witchcraft against John DeVice, Allison's father, after the annual payment of oatmeal from the device family, had stopped.
By the end of Roger Noel's examinations, he had Allison Device, Old Demdike, Old Shaddock, and Anne Redfern committed to Lancaster Castle to await their trial.
So essentially, it's just like finger pointing, and again, it's not recorded in their records.
but it is likely that all of them were being tortured under,
or under some sort of duress during this where they're pointing fingers at each other
and maybe even being promised that if they tell them who is doing this,
that they'll be set free.
So they've all just pointed fingers at each other.
Now this castle that they were imprisoned in the center of Lancaster,
roughly 30 miles northwest of Pendle still within the county of Lancashire.
By 1612, the medieval castle was being used as both a prison and a courthouse, and it was here that people accused of serious crimes from across the county could be confined until the traveling judges arrived.
For Allison, Demdike, Shaddix, and Anne Redfern being sent there meant that they could now spend months in prison while they waited to learn whether they would be tried for their crimes that could cost them their lives.
So it was basically just like, we are going to put you in prison, but there's no one here.
so whenever they get here is when we'll have our trial.
Then, less than two weeks later, something happened at Demdike's home that would transform
the case again.
The house was known as Malkin Tower, although despite its name, it was probably not a grandstone
tower at all given their poverty.
On April 10th, 1612, which was Good Friday, a group of people had gathered there.
Exactly why they gathered and what happened inside would later be.
become one of the most important questions in the entire Pendle investigation.
To the people who attended, it may have just been a gathering for family and neighbors to enjoy a meal together and socialize, not abnormal to invite your neighbors over for a meal and to hang out.
But Roger Noel found it very suspicious.
According to the accusations that followed, the people at Malkin Tower had gathered to discuss freeing the imprisoned women from the Lancaster Castle.
and their plans involved killing a man named Thomas Coval, who was involved with the castle,
and they even supposedly discussed blowing up Lancaster Castle itself and freeing all of the women.
There was another detail that made the gathering especially suspicious to authorities.
Because it had taken place on Good Friday, the day Christians commemorate the crucifixion of the death of Jesus,
they thought that that was a sign that this was devil work.
It was traditionally a solemn day associated with morning, prayer, fasting, and abstinence
rather than celebration and feasting.
Yet according to the accusations, the people at Balkan Tower had gathered for a meal
that included stolen mutton.
In the intensely religious atmosphere, the timing and the nature of the gathering
was seen as a deliberate violation of Christian observance.
So Noel opened another investigation.
This time he turned to the people who had remained behind at Malkin Tower,
including Allison's mother and Demdike's daughter, Elizabeth Device,
who we previously introduced as squinting Lizzie,
along with Elizabeth's son James and her nine-year-old daughter, Janet.
Although Janet was only a child, she was about to become one of the most important witnesses in the entire case.
So they're just plucking everyone else who's the rest of their family members who lived in the house once they were in prison, basically, to question them as well.
Janet, nine years old.
She described the gathering at Malkin Tower and identified people she claimed had been there, while James also gave authorities names of people he said had attended.
Their accounts dramatically expanded the investigation, pulling more people into a case that had begun with Alice.
Allison and John Law on the side of a road only weeks earlier and now had all of these people
involved. Among those now accused were Elizabeth and James themselves, even though they're being
questioned, they're also being accused, along with Alice Gray, Catherine Hewitt, a mother and son
named Jane and John Bullcock, and Alice Nutter. Each had now been connected in some way to
the gathering at Malkin Tower, but the accusations against them varied. Catherine,
would eventually be accused of murdering a woman named Anne Foulds through witchcraft,
while the case against Jane and John Bullcock rested heavily on their alleged presence at the gathering.
Jenna even claimed that John had helped turn the stolen lamb that they had as it roasted over the fire,
which basically she was just like he's involved, like he even helped cook.
Alice Nutter stood apart from many of the other people who had been accused so far
because she was the only one who wasn't poor.
She actually came from a very wealthy family who owned a lot of land, but she was also identified
as one of the people at the gathering.
Despite her wealth and her social standing in the county, those accusations were
enough to pull Alice into the growing investigation as well.
Another woman connected, and there's a lot of names here and they'll come up again.
So if you're getting lost, don't worry, we'll like revisit these.
I don't want to take away from the serious of this, but I'm going to tell you right now, I will not forget the name Bullcock.
So there's that.
There is that.
It's quite a last name.
It makes a statement.
I'm remembering.
The guy cooked.
That was his link.
His role.
His role.
Yeah.
Another woman connected to the gathering, Janet Preston, lived across the county border in Yorkshire and would be sent to stand trial separately at York.
The others were sent toward Lancaster, joining the prisoners already being held there.
So she was just like, not in the right county, but they still wanted to charge her for something.
With her mother, brother, and sister now imprisoned at Lancaster Castle, nine-year-old Janet was left behind.
Roger Noel took Janet into his care, meaning that for the months, leave,
up to the trials, the child who would eventually become one of the prosecution's most important
witnesses was living under the care of the same man who was investigating and prosecuting
her family for witchcraft and then would be asked to testify against them.
Yeah.
So, and she's a child.
She's not.
Easily influenced child.
Yeah, that has no idea what's going on.
Has no family.
And I'm sure he came in and he's like, I'll take care of you.
Like, I'll give you food.
Like, I'm so sorry this happened.
I have money.
I know you've been living in Squalor.
Like, here's some food.
I'll take care of you.
Tell me what they've been doing to you kind of thing.
Messed up.
For months, all of the prisoners remained confined inside Lancaster Castle,
believed to have been held in an underground dungeon of the Well Tower.
These were small stone floor spaces and the castle's early prison cells
lacked many of the most basic things we associate with human confinement today, including adequate
sanitation, water, and even light. They were just in the darkness. Prisoners could be crowded
together for long periods and later accounts from 17th century inmates described part of the castle
prison as exposed to rain and wind and so unpleasant that even visiting officials were reluctant
to enter. And that kind of reminded me of when we were in Scotland and we visited
I'm forgetting the name of the castle.
Maybe you remember where Outlander was filmed.
And they had the whipping scene there.
Well, it was this castle.
And I remember they had a specific display talking about how they basically had different levels of prisoners there.
And people who like political prisoners who were really rich and well connected basically got their whole, a whole floor of this beautiful tower overlooking the ocean.
while the poor people who were imprisoned there got the basement that would actually get flooded with the incoming tides of the ocean.
And they would constantly get wet and wind blown.
And it was just like horrific, horrific conditions.
And that was just kind of what this tower reminded me of where it's freezing.
There's wind.
There's no light.
It's dirty.
It's just it's really horrible.
I looked it up.
It's Blackness Castle.
Blackness Castle.
And they did some messed up things there.
Sure did.
And it portrayed Fort William in Outlander.
Okay.
I haven't seen Outlander.
Oh, right.
Okay.
That means nothing to me, but I believe.
That explains the blank.
Like, ah, yes.
Ah, yes.
I recall.
Have you started?
Well, oh, no, we were at another castle, Outlander Castle.
Which one was it?
Was it Lollabrook?
Or something?
Or was it that one where we bought Outlander?
It was the same.
It was the same castle.
No, wasn't.
Well, the one I'm talking about.
No, the one we got the book and the one that had the thing on the water?
Oh, wait.
No, those were different.
Those were different for sure.
One wasn't near water at all.
I know.
Well, my question was, have you begun reading Outlander that we bought at that second castle?
I haven't.
Have you? I know you started, but have you like gotten? No, I haven't done anything.
Going through it. I read the first like 200 pages on the way, like on the plane ride home.
But then I haven't picked it back up. I am interested in it, but I'm kind of already in a series right now. And I can't, I'm in the Akitar world. Oh, you're deep. Yeah. I'm deep in a world right now. And she has a new book coming out. And I can't dedicate my time to.
Or two, I thought.
She has two, but one's coming out, I believe it's the 28th of this month, her, the next one.
And so I'm committed.
I'm already in a relationship with a series and I can't undergo that one yet.
No, understandable.
I am interested.
I know people love it.
It's just, it's not the, it's not the right time.
Yeah.
And that's understandable.
It's a huge undertaking.
There's so many books and they're all so long.
It's very similar.
like I feel like commitment of time as compared to Akitar and all the other I know aren't they
related but they're also different Akatar and whatever else is happening over there yeah they're
kind of like they're the same they're like same world but different parts of that world
if that makes sense um yeah and like different characters and storylines and stuff throughout
But yeah, so I'm in deep. I'm in deep and I can't get out of it.
Well, circling back to the castle conditions and the conditions for all of these women who are now imprisoned there, it was especially difficult for someone who is older, especially someone like Demdike, her grandmother who is in her 80s.
It was really dangerous for her to be there. And she didn't survive long enough to make it to trial.
Sometime before the trial began, that August, she died inside Lancaster Castle without being found guilty of anything, and it was likely due to the conditions of her confinement.
Nearly four months after the first prisoners were sent to Lancaster Castle, the judges finally arrived on Monday, August 17th, 1612, and the following day, the trials of the people accused in Pendle were underway.
For the prisoners, this was nothing like entering a modern courtroom where they would be represented by attorneys who had spent months preparing their defense.
People accused of witchcraft in early 17th century England generally did not have a defense counsel speaking for them.
The Pendle defendants had no lawyers to challenge the prosecution's witnesses or billed their cases for them, and prisoners were not allowed to call witnesses to testify on their behalf.
Much of the evidence consisted of statements and confessions
Roger Noel had gathered during the investigation months earlier,
along with accusations made by neighbors
and in several cases, members of the defendant's own family.
So basically, they're like,
this is all the evidence we have against you,
and you're not allowed to rebuke any of it.
And you can also not have anyone come on the stand
and vouch for your character,
or give you an alibi or anything like that.
Yeah, it's a very one-sided.
it's almost like they have their minds made up before any of this went to trial.
Yeah, they're like, yeah, we do trials to make it fair.
To give you a chance.
Yeah.
To give you a chance.
But it was really just to prove, like it kind of felt like they were just like
proving that, trying to prove their right and like, yep, we got him and make a spectacle
of the whole thing before they put them to death.
unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.
Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered.
Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.
Learn more at no frills.ca.
Got PC optimum points?
Visit Shoppers Drug Mart for the bonus redemption event and get more for your points.
Friday, October 23rd to Wednesday, October 28th.
Valid in store and online.
Yet some of the most.
damaging evidence at Lancaster did not come from Roger Noel or from any of the adults who had
accused one another. It actually came from Elizabeth Devices' nine-year-old daughter, Janet.
When Janet was brought forward to testify against her, her mother Elizabeth erupted.
She began shouting and cursing at her daughter so violently that the court ordered Elizabeth
removed before Janet continued giving evidence. The prosecution was then able to question
a nine-year-old child without a parent present.
And before, I mean, they were just testifying against her mom, but of course the mom is
flipping out.
But Janet told the court that she believed her mother was a witch.
She described a spirit or familiar associated with Elizabeth and gave evidence about her
mother's alleged involvement in witchcraft.
Her brother James had also given evidence against Elizabeth during earlier examinations,
including allegations involving clay figures supposedly used to harm people.
The prosecution also returned again and again to the gathering at Malkin Tower.
Janet testified that around 20 people had been present on Good Friday.
James Devices' examination went even further,
alleging that those gathered had discussed freeing Allison, Demdike, Shaddix, and Anne Redfern from Lancaster Castle,
killing people that were there and blowing up the castle so the prisoners could escape.
By the end of Tuesday, August 18th, just a day later, Elizabeth Device, James Device, and Old Shaddix had all been found guilty.
The trials continued the following day for the other people.
On Wednesday, August 19th, more of the accused were brought before the court.
Among them were several of the people who had been swept into the investigation, specifically
because of the gathering at Malken Tower.
There was Catherine Hewitt, Allison Nutter, and Jane Bullcock, and her son, John.
Anne Redfern, Old Shaddock's daughter, who had been in prison before the Malken Tower,
gathering ever took place, was also brought to court.
Alice remained one of the strangest people to be caught up in the investigation.
She had not confessed to anything and denied being at Malkentower.
But Jenna identified her as one of the people she remembered seeing there,
So the court apparently tested Janet's ability to identify her.
Alice was placed among other people and Janet was asked to identify the woman she knew as Alice Nutter.
The nine-year-old walked to Alice, took her by the hand, and identified her.
In the eyes of the court, Janet's ability to recognize Alice strengthened the credibility of her testimony.
In turn, Alice Nutter was found guilty.
So was Catherine Hewitt.
Jane Bullcock and her son John were also convicted.
All four had been among the people accused of attending the Good Friday gathering at Malkin Tower.
Anne Redfern, Shaddock's daughter, was found guilty as well.
And then came Allison.
Nearly five months had passed since she had encountered John Law on the road.
The peddler had survived and now he and his son Abraham appeared at Lancaster to give evidence against her.
Allison did not deny what had happened.
She faced John Law again.
She acknowledged her guilt and asked for his forgiveness.
The pedal defendants were not the only people being tried for witchcraft at Lancaster that week.
The same judges were hearing several other witchcraft cases from across Lancashire,
including that of a woman named Isabel Robbie from Wendell near St. Helens.
Isabel had no connection to the device or Shattuck's family and had not been accused of attending the guest.
gathering a Malkan Tower. Her case had developed separately after people in her own community
accused her of using witchcraft to make them sick. One man, Peter Shaddock, claimed that after
he called Isabella a witch, he was struck by severe pain throughout his body. Another woman,
Jane Wilkinson, claimed that she had become suddenly ill after refusing to give Isabel milk.
Isabel pleaded not guilty when she was brought before the court on August 19th, but the jury convicted
her of witchcraft. That meant that when the court gathered the condemned prisoners together for
sentencing, there were nine people from the Pendle prosecutions and one woman from a completely
separate witchcraft case. Ten people were condemned to die. Anne Whittle, better known as Old
Shaddix, Anne Redfern, Elizabeth Device, James Device, Allison Device, Alice Nutter,
Catherine Hewitt, Jane Bullcock, John Polcock, and Isabel Robbie. Alice
Gray, another woman caught up in the accusation surrounding Malkintower was surprisingly acquitted.
The judge ordered the ten condemned prisoners return to Lancaster Castle. From there,
the judge told them that they would be taken to the county's place of execution where they would be
hanged until dead. He urged them to use what little time remained to repent and prepare themselves
for death because they did not have long. The following day, August 20th, 1612, the 10th,
condemned prisoners were taken from the Lancaster Castle and led out of town towards the moor above
Lancaster to the place where public executions were carried out. The exact location of the Gallows
has been debated over the centuries, but is generally associated with what became known as Gallows Hill
on Lancaster Moor. From that high ground, Lancaster Castle would have still been visible behind them.
Their execution was public. We don't know how many people gathered on Lancaster
or more that day, but executions in 17th century England were public events, intended not only
to punish the condemned, but to serve as a warning to everyone else who watched. The prisoners
would have faced the gallows surrounded not only by officials and executioners, but by people
who had come to witness them die. There are no reliable surviving accounts of the final
words spoken by Allison, Elizabeth, James, Shaddock, Alice Nutter, or the others that morning.
We don't know whether they prayed, protested their innocence, confessed, comforted one another,
or said nothing at all.
We don't know what Allison said to her mother, what Elizabeth said to her children, or what
passed between old Shaddocks and her daughter, Anne, as they stood together knowing
that they were about to die.
Those final moments between them were never recorded.
But hanging in 1612 did not work the way many of us picture hangings today.
There was no long fall designed to break the neck and kill someone almost instantly, which is still horrific, but is executed properly.
It's a quicker way.
Or done properly.
I shouldn't have, yeah.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's still horrific, but they later had ways to do it more efficiently, which is also a horrible way to say it.
But you know what I'm trying to say.
Yeah.
Well, that method would not be developed until centuries later.
Instead, a rope was placed around the condemned person's neck while they stood on some form of support
such as a cart or a ladder. The support was taken away, leaving the person suspended from the rope.
Because there was little or no drop, their necks usually did not break. Instead, the weight of
the person's own body tightened the rope around their neck, restricting the airway and the blood
vessels carrying blood to and from the brain. Death could take several minutes rather than seconds.
This was what was known as a short drop hanging, although in some executions there was essentially
no drop at all. With the short drop method, there was no design to break their neck and kill someone
fast. The people who were condemned to die suffered for a long time. So that day, one by one,
the 10 people condemned at Lancaster were hanged.
But this was not the only witch trial happening at the time.
Before those same judges, on those same days as the other trials,
three women, Jane Southworth, Janet Burley, and Ellen Burley were accused of witchcraft,
murder, and cannibalism.
Their accuser was a teenage girl named Grace Sowerbuts who was related to two of the women
she accused.
Janet Burley was her grandmother and Ellen Burley.
was her aunt. These were obvious parallels to what was happening in the Pendle courtroom, but this
case ended very differently. As Grace's accusations were examined more closely, her story began to fall
apart. She eventually admitted that what she had said was false and claimed that a Catholic priest
named Christopher Sutherworth, also known as Thompson, had coached her in what to say. Jane, Jenna,
and Ellen were all acquitted at the same time these other women's
were sentenced to death.
And man.
Because John was also included.
What happened to, sorry, I forget her first name.
I'm just sour butts is also.
I know I said that.
And I was like, yeah.
But did she have any sort of, were they like, oh, okay.
Or did she get reprimanded in any way?
Or did she suffer any sort of consequence for falsely accusing others of witchcraft?
It seems like they were just kind of like, oh, okay.
In this case.
There was nothing that I saw that prosecuted her after for lying.
Okay.
Just curious.
After the executions of 1612, Janet, the daughter, disappeared from the historical record for more than 20 years.
We know very little about what became of her in the years immediately following the trials.
But in 1634, another witchcraft investigation erupted.
in Lancashire and the name Janet Device appeared again.
This time, the accusations came from a 10-year-old boy named Edmund Robinson, who claimed
that while gathering berries, he encountered two greyhounds, one of which transformed into a woman.
His story eventually led him to describe a gathering of witches where people feasted together
and as authorities pursued his accusations, around 20 people were implicated.
Among them was Janet Device, believed by many historians to have been the same Janet who had testified against her family 22 years earlier.
If it was her, obviously the reversal is extraordinary here.
She accused and now she's being accused.
Now at 31 years old, she found herself on the opposite side of another child's story, and it's a child accusing her now.
And she was accused of being a witch because a young person claimed to have seen her doing something.
Transforming from a dog.
Or transforming from a dog.
Or yeah.
Or being involved into a dog.
Yeah.
However this time, the accusations were subjected to a lot of scrutiny.
Edmund was eventually brought to London and questioned where his story unraveled and he admitted that he had lied.
And in this case, the accused were not executed.
Although records show that a woman named Janet Device was still imprisoned in Lancaster in 1636, and after that, her name disappears from all record.
So she was imprisoned for it, and it shows that she was according to the record, and it could have been lost and something could have happened.
But it seems like she was accused in prison and never released.
Witchcraft prosecutions in England certainly did not end with Pendle.
Some of the country's deadliest witch hunts were still to come, including the East Anglian witch hunts of the 1640s, when hundreds of people were accused and many were executed.
Yet the Pendle trials became one of the most enduring stories of English witchcraft, and that is because it was more well documented.
Much of the detail survived because Thomas Potts, a clerk connected to the court proceedings at the time, compiled an account of the trials that was published in 1613,
as the Wonderful Discovery of Witches
in the County of Lancaster
is the title of his book.
The Wonderful Discovery.
That sounds like a fantasy book.
Yeah.
Not a horrific trial of murdering people.
His book was not a like neutral word for word script though.
It was very biased and it was clearly written from a perspective.
It wasn't just like a typed.
I say typed like they had.
But it wasn't just like.
a written word for word account of what happened at the trial.
It was his interpretation of...
For sure.
Okay.
For sure.
In 2012, marking the 400th anniversary of the trials, a bronze statue of Alice Nutter
was unveiled in Rowley near Pendle Hill.
She is shown walking forward in 17th century clothing with her hands shackled in front
of her and visitors continue to leave flowers and other offerings for her.
It would be easy to think that this kind of fear that fueled the Pendle witch trials disappeared centuries ago,
but the accusations of witchcraft are still very real.
In parts of the world today, including Ghana, Papua New Guinea, and India,
people accused of using witchcraft have been driven from their communities, attacked, and even killed.
The belief has not disappeared from the United States either.
In 2022, Tennessee pastor Greg Locke told his congregation that demons had revealed to him the identities of six witches who had infiltrated his church, claiming that he knew their names and threatened to expose them publicly.
History has shown us just how dangerous accusations like these can become.
The women accused of witchcraft and murdered were mothers and grandmothers, wives and widows, healers, and
and midwives, women living in poverty, and women who had possessed property, money, or
independence of their own. There was no single kind of woman who is safe from suspicion,
and once accused a woman could lose her reputation, her family, her possessions, her freedom,
and ultimately her life. So I will end the episode with this. Perhaps one of the most important
lessons we can carry forward from stories like Pendle is that we have to stop finding reasons
to fear, blame, and punish women for being different, outspoken, knowledgeable, independent,
or powerful. Women are not something to be feared or controlled. We are capable, intelligent,
and strong, and we deserve to be admired, cherished, and most importantly, given the freedom
and safety to thrive.
Whether a woman chooses to become a mother,
build a career, live independently,
or some combination of all of those things,
her choices and her power should belong to her.
Knowing what happened to the women who came before us
gives us an obligation to protect that progress,
continue opening doors for the women who come next,
and make sure that we never again
turn women's knowledge or success
into something for which it should be feared or punished.
And that is my story of the Pendle Forest, which trials.
Good.
Once again, super heavy with everything you learn.
I mean, going back to, well, first of all, wait a second, beautiful ending.
Thank you.
That was great.
But earlier in the episode when we talked briefly, going back to King James the 6th when he was trying to come back from, I almost said his honeymoon, but with his wife from Denmark and the ships thing, that was all just weather, bad weather events that sparked that whole thing.
And then going back to the Pendle Forest after a man encounter.
happened to encounter women and then happened to suffer a stroke shortly thereafter pinned it on them.
It's like these events that we know now are totally unrelated to anything to do with women.
It just makes you wonder how 200, 300 years from now people will be reflecting back on today.
And the things that we were, you know, how women were treated in the present day, you know.
And because it seems so crazy to us now looking back at those things.
It's like how could you have ever believed that those things were related?
I think we're going to look back on, I think we're going to look back on today's time and think how could we have ever thought this for women now.
I mean, hopefully.
Or treated them in this way or had them.
Even right now, I think we're feeling that, especially as women, we're like, what the fuck, everyone?
Why are we?
You know, there's a lot of backwards things that are happening specifically towards women where there's, like,
an argument of people are talking about taking women's right to vote away again, and people
are talking about women belong in the kitchen again.
And there's just like a lot of weird rhetoric that's going around online.
And from a lot of young people, too, saying women shouldn't have the right to vote,
women's places at home in the kitchen, women, like, just there's some scary rhetoric going around
about women right now.
But the benefit of women today is that we have hindsight.
You know, we can look back on these.
We have the knowledge.
We have the knowledge because back then, you know, of course, I'm sure all of these
individuals were at some point or another.
thinking this is so unfair.
But they had no...
Like they were just such victims to the times, especially.
They had no other choice.
And also, you know, there was real fear at the time, too,
because I remember in How to Kill a Witch,
one of the first things that they opened with was,
hey, before we even get into all this,
there's something you got to know.
And you have to keep in mind throughout this entire book
because your brain is going to want to be like,
how the fuck did this happen and how did people go off the rails this deep? Like how did this happen?
And you have to remember there was such like to us reading it now, it's like, yeah, we saw the devil or
the devil came to me or whatever. And we're like, what? Like we don't, what are you talking about?
But back then, they just so deeply, I mean, religion was just such a deeply ingrained in every single
person. Going back to like the knowledge thing, like we have knowledge. I think,
what's beneficial for women today is that we have the knowledge that these things have happened.
And when all of these witch trials were happening, if you really go back and think about it,
even though the witch trials in Scotland had happened and the demonology book had been published
and King James had come from Scotland and now he's in England and stuff, that doesn't necessarily
mean anyone in England knew what was going on. And same thing with the Salem Witch trials.
What was happening in Salem, a lot of people, most people probably had known.
idea what had happened in England and in Scotland. So there's just such a disconnect. And now
today we have the knowledge and we have books and we have histories that have been written
and we have podcasts that tell stories of dark histories. And so there's just there's so many
avenues to learn now, which is certainly an advantage to women. But I think for this episode,
for me, what I just wanted people to be able to take away from it is that,
the idea of the witch trials isn't necessary this like spooky uki thing for Halloween. This was a real
atrocity towards women and some men. Some men were affected like in this story. But primarily women.
And when people, we always say like witches are burned at the stake, witches were hanged. And it's like no, women. Women were hanged. Which is like you're, when you refer to these women as witches, you're making them seem like they're not a person. And,
And it kind of removes you from it a little bit.
And kind of what I wanted to bring to this episode was just to remind people that these are stories that happened very much to women and not this whole witchcraft thing that we like to paint around it.
Well, thank you for sharing.
And I learned a lot because I hadn't heard anything about the Pendle Forest trials.
No, neither.
but it is it's kind of like building blocks a little bit because we had that foundational knowledge of
James the six slash first and his kind of origin story and demonology and kind of like even when you
were saying I know it was a little bit of a passing thing but the prickers like we learned a lot
about that. And yeah, it's just like the, I feel like we've just like built, they kind of build on
each other and you can follow the thread of similarities through all these different troughs,
even in the U.S., you know. So it's quite interesting when you get to have it all kind of laid out
and you can really follow patterns. Yeah. And I mean, this is just,
touching the surface of it, right? I mean, this is just a tiny, I don't want to see tiny story,
because it was a really big deal, especially for the people who are affected by it. But if this
is something that you're interested in, I mean, there are so many books and there's so many stories
of so many different people. Like you mentioned at the beginning of this, 4,000 people in Scotland.
In Scotland. There's so much to learn and unpack here that this is really just grazing the service.
Yeah. And I know there's one in Iceland.
on our list for a while in Iceland and we have been kind of avoiding it because we can't pronounce
any of the names and you guys are going to yell at us.
You're bullies.
I'll say it.
You're bullies and we can't cover Iceland because you're all going to yell at us for mispronouncing.
You know what we need to do.
It would be so funny as if we did an Iceland episode but every time an Iceland name came on,
we had an Icelandic person just read the name for us.
So it like cut from us saying it to like them.
Or just play, what is it, Julian or whatever, the guy that comes up that has the pronunciation,
which by the way, also unhelpful.
I never really listen to his videos, even though he has a video on almost every word I need pronounced.
But he does it in such a robotic way.
And he has an accent.
And he has an accent.
like, are we sure this is how it's supposed to be spoken?
It's like, I have questions.
And I know we have an accent to other, non-English-speaking people.
So I don't know, his is just really strong.
So it's kind of hard for our ear to understand what he's trying to say when we already
don't understand what is supposed to be, what it's supposed to be originally.
And so I all, I don't know if you do this, but.
when I'm looking at pronunciations, I'll try and get, like, either a news clip or somebody, like,
actively saying the word in a conversation or a video. But then it goes by so fast,
especially in another language. How do you know if they're right? I do. Especially if you're
listening to, like, a YouTube video or when you're trying to hear, like, someone say it correctly.
It's like, well, I'm trusting this person saying it correct. But if they're wrong, yeah.
There's a lot of ways to pronounce words, but we're trying our best.
Well, it gets under...
I got...
I'll call it out right now.
There's a...
Really grinds my gears.
It really gets me fucking pissed.
Research an episode for weeks.
Oh, you already know what I'm about to say.
I forget what episode it was.
It was kind of recent.
But yeah, we pour a lot of hours into creating each episode, if that wasn't apparent.
But there was this one comment.
It was from one of my, oh, I know.
It was from the Children's Blizzard episode.
And somebody had commented like, did you mean to say, I don't know, I don't even forget.
I forget.
It was a pronunciation of a last name.
That's all I remember.
And they're like, you couldn't take two minutes to look this up.
Like I took so many minutes to research this.
Do you know how many minutes?
Limit does not like
I committed to this
But
Yeah I'm like
It's like scrap the whole episode
It's like fucking forget the whole episode that
No I don't know
But yeah it's just like
Girl do you even know
We're trying to pronounce
Lookup pronations just know
It's hard
You try knowing every word of the English language
Plus other languages
Occasionally
Yeah
So long story short
We're not
covering the Icelandic
because you guys have not allowed us
and this is your fault
so think about that
we do love you guys though and we're like
mostly joking and I mean
it's I personally am not offended by like literally anything
I am to talk about and Daniel is
so between the two of us
there's a nice middle ground there
there's a nice middle ground
Yeah, you know, who's really good at, like, taking, letting that roll off their back?
Who?
Taylor and Morgan at creeps and crimes.
Oh, yeah.
They're really good at it.
Pronounce things.
All the time.
Yeah, Morgan's like, I can't say wolf.
She says wolf or wolf or something like that.
She's like, I literally can't say it.
And you guys can, I'm sorry, but just is the way it is.
For that occasional times, that word comes up, you're just going to have to deal.
You know what I mean, you know.
It's like, you know what I'm trying to say.
I love that for her.
Yeah.
Same.
Same for all of the words.
You guys are just unbothered queens and I'm here.
I'm like, no, I'll learn.
I'll learn Iceland, whatever.
I'll do it.
Just be nice to me.
Please, I'm trying so hard.
Okay, well, that's it.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you next week.
Why are you laughing?
It's just so funny.
You're like, yeah, and I'm mad.
And then you're like, thank you all for listening.
No, I appreciate everyone except for that one person who said that.
Trust me, they're not listening.
And if they are.
They stopped after that word.
They did.
That last name, they were like, this bitch doesn't know anything.
After I just discussed the history of the weather service and whatever the fuck else I was saying.
But yeah, thank you for listening.
Thanks for listening.
And enjoy the view.
But watch you're back.
Okay, bye.
Bye.
Thanks for joining us for another episode.
We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list.
If you want more MPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark.
For more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions.
If you prefer to watch our episodes,
head over to our YouTube channel.
And if you're enjoying the show,
please take a moment to rate, review,
and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.
Yet the Pendle trials are the one
that have become one of the most enduring stories
of English witchcraft.
You can just take that sentence out.
I can't fucking say it.
Fucking scrap it.
Fucking get it out of here.
Actually, that sentence is important.
Bring it back, game.
I'm like, why'd I say it?
But the next sentence describes why I said it.
Bring her back.
Bring her back.
Okay.
Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.
Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered.
Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.
Learn more at nofrills.ca.
