National Park After Dark - Murder and Mystery ft. Morbid Podcast!

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

On today’s special episode of NPAD we speak with Ash and Alaina from Morbid! They bring us to the Appalachian Trail and The Grand Canyon where they share stories of murder and a mysterious disappearance.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Reel: Use code NPAD for 30% off your first order and free shipping.BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month of online therapy by using our link.Apostrophe: Get your first visit for only five dollars at our link and when you use code NPAD.HelloFresh: Use code NPAD16 for 16 free meals across 7 boxes and 3 free gifts.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Hello everybody. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We have a very, very exciting episode today. I tried my very best, not to fan girl. You did great. Thank you. I really tried. So we are really excited because today's a little bit of a unique episode. We have a collaboration with one of our favorite podcasts ever, and that is morbid. I don't think they need much of an introduction since they are really well known in the true crime community. As far as far as,

as podcasting. They've been doing this for many years and it was such a pleasure to speak with them. And this podcast, when I was moving out west, I was listening to them like on my road trip. So to see even in our email, like looking forward to our chat, I'm like, you're going to talk to me. Why? It's just it's so exciting because obviously Morbid is such a big podcast and they've been very, very successful. Ash and Elena have. And to see how far our. our podcast has grown and that we're getting the opportunity to talk with them and to hang out and do some fun stories and, or I say fun, I should say some morbid stories, but we're even going to go to some national parks and national park run areas today. So it's super exciting and

we're just so stoked for this. This is such a fun point in our show and how far we've grown. and now we get to hang out and talk to the girls from Morbid who we've just been listening to for years. Yeah. And we did do, this is probably now a couple weeks. This is a couple weeks ago. We did an episode on their show. We covered a couple of spooky lighthouses. So if you're interested in that, you should go check that out. And it was released on August 24th on their feed. But today we have them on our show and we're kind of bringing them out of their comfort zone a little bit. So we agree. read on having them do, we said you can pick whatever stories you would like to do. We don't want to hear what they are as long as they're in an area that is either a national park or run by the

National Park Service. Let us know the place and we will do some background research on the location and then you can tell us a story. So that's what we did. That's how the format of today is going to go. Cassie and I are going to introduce the locations and then Ash and Elena will be telling us story. Yeah. So we're so, so excited. Let's all welcome to the show, Ash and Elena. Hello. Well, thank you so much, Ash and Elena, for joining us. We're so excited to have you here. We're big fans of your podcast morbid. So. Thank you so much. We're excited to delay. The ladies who need no introduction, we had so much, we had so much fun on your show a couple weeks ago now and everyone when we posted it our like audience was going nuts. Oh, I love it.

When we said that we were, that you guys were on, everyone went nuts. Everyone was like, this is a great collaboration and it was so much fun. We had a great time and terrible Tilly people are like, I've had so many people from who like live around in the Pacific Northwest. They're like, I have to go now. Oh yeah. Because it's so close. You have to go and it's not even close to me. I'm like, let's go. It's the farthest. I still want to go. It is. Yeah.

Literally the farthest. Yeah. But I want to go. Yeah. Well, today we're bringing you to the dark side and we're bringing you outdoors. Woo. I know. It's a little out of your comfort zone.

Completely out of our comfort zone. Well, I know you guys have two stories today. And Cassie and I just know the location, but we don't know the actual stories. So we're going to do a little intro. to the story or the location itself, and then you take it away. Perfect. Sounds good. Scare the pants off, yeah.

Okay. Can't wait. Can't wait. So we're going to first go to the Appalachian Trail, right? Yes. Perfect. And Cassie, you haven't done the AT, but your friend has, right? Aaron.

Yeah, my friend Aaron, she did the AT last year, and it seems pretty fun and also just a lot. I mean, walking thousands. of miles. It's, it's the most. I joined her on a, I joined her on a portion of it. It's the most. Oh, did you really? I joined her. I say I joined her, but it was in Vermont and I was there for like six miles and then I went home and slept in my bed. Six more than I would have done. So go off, girl. I was just going to say six more than I've done. Six more than I'll probably ever do. It's close by. If you guys ever want to like hop on it just for a minute, just be like, oh, we stepped on it. I'm pretty sure we might. I've stepped on it at one.

but I did not hike. I probably have. Yeah. I've seen it. I've seen a part of it. I'm sure I've seen a tree on it or something. There you go. Yeah, you've seen like the little white marker for it.

Yeah, exactly. There it is. There is. And it's a beautiful trail. I mean, it goes, like Cassie said, thousands of miles. So I'll do a brief intro on it for anyone who is not familiar with the AT. Because like we said, when we were on your show, we kind of talked about how national parks are way more than just like the big units like Yellowstone and Yosemite. So the AT is managed by

the National Park Service and it spans 15 states. It comes in at roughly 2,193 miles and is the longest hiking only trail in all of the U.S. The trail passes through eight different national forests and six different national parks and is known for its spectacular view of the Appalachian Mountains, which is what it's named after. And because the trail is, is so long and travels through so many various landscapes and different climates. There's a diverse amount of plant and animal life here, depending where you are on the trail, of course. So if you're there, you can run into black bears, coyotes, porcupine, moose, deer. There's herons and woodpeckers, rattlesnakes and black widows, and then like chipmunks and turtles and nicer things.

The black widows. And there's chipmunks there too. Yeah, so don't, and squirrels. Yeah. Can't forget them. So there's a lot of North America's iconic wildlife here throughout the trail. And even though there's a lot of cool wildlife, it is, the trail's known to be particularly challenging because there's an estimated 450,000 feet worth of elevation changes throughout the trail and some peaks reach over 6,000 feet elevation. Oh my God. So to say it's a little complex and quite strenuous would be a little bit of an understatement, which makes anyone who accomplishes this trail just likes rock stars in our books. You need to hand out medals for this kind of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Like a picture at the, at the end is just like, kind of like, it's so just so gratifying. And then you're just like, okay. Yeah, I did that. Exactly. I think they do do certificates and little pins that they send you if you like prove or document that you actually did it.

So you do get like something and you get like recognition into the Hall of Fame of AT hikers. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yes. I mean, someone should be responsible for handing that out because it is quite the accomplishment. And every single year about three million people hike some portion of the AT. So that's a lot of people. But according to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, just over 3,000 attempt to hike the entirety of the AT, the whole 2,000-ish mile.

and one in four, roughly, will complete the whole thing from start to finish. Jeez. So, Erin is a badass. Yeah. For real. Breathing rarefied air over there. Quietly. She's going to listen to this and she's going to be like, oh, my gosh.

You are impressive. Didn't she do, this is totally, I'm like totally putting a spotlight on her, but she's the only person I know that's done this. What didn't, wasn't there a portion where? she like did it naked. Yeah, it's part of the, um, makes her so much better somehow. I didn't think she could get better. It's part of like what you do on the trail. I guess you do like a day of hiking naked and she has a photo where she just has like a leaf in front of her. That's phenomenal. That's awesome. That's magnificent. I love that it's like just for tradition. Yeah, that's great.

It's like it's time. Just being one with nature. It's kind of tradition in Vermont because I have been out on the trail sometimes, not on the AT, just hiking. The other day I was out hiking and I walked by and there was just a naked guy walking down the trail. I'm like, wow. Wow. He's up. Just freeing. He's very respectful though. He like turned around and hit away from me and kind of shied away, hit his business. And then he's like, hey, have a nice hike. And then he like, waited for me to walk by and then he continued. I was like, oh, that's really nice. Because I was kind. Yeah, it was very kind. I'm like, he's not being weird. The rules of sufficiency. I would not know how to respond to that. Like, I just be like, wow.

You just feel like, hey, you too, man. Get it, dude. Sure. Nice breeze out here today. I hope you have sunscreen on my dude. That happened. I think I've told you this, Cassie. Like when I lived in Colorado the first time, I was going, we were hiking up to like the,

this abandoned mine shaft to look at the, uh, free-tailed bats like migration. And we get, it's like sunset. Like, we're getting up there. We're like two miles in. And all of a sudden, there's, like, we encounter, like, three different naked, like, nudist people. I had no idea this was, like, part of hiking. Neither did I. It's not common.

It's not common. It's a sub-genre. Everyone's naked in woods. An obstacle that you will come across. Well, to be fair, the biologist that was leading this particular, like, little trek, he was like, oh, yeah, sorry, we hike through a nudist colony to get. to art. I'm like, oh, okay. It would have been nice to just like as a heads up. So I wasn't rude. Just like, you know. We're infiltrating. No. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. It's like you feel kind of like you're the one out of place. Yeah. Do you have to take my clothes off? Yeah. You feel like you're like voyeuristically there. You're like,

I swear I'm not. I'm just going through here. Everyone's like side eyeing you. Like who is this person with clothes on me? I'm like, I'm so sorry. I can take my top off if you want. I'm so. makes you more comfortable. But anyways, okay, so for those on the trail, on the AT, which is not going through a nudist colony that I'm aware of, there is an option to stay in one of the more, more than 250 backcountry shelters located throughout the trail. They average about eight miles apart, although there are some stretches of the trail where there can be up to 30 miles of nothing in between locations.

And one of those shelters is named the Wapeedi shelter. meaning elk in both Cree and Shawnee, the mammal was once abundant in the Appalachians until around the 1860s when they were locally extirpated from the area through various hunting methods. And this shelter is situated in Virginia along the trail and it's northeast of the popular campground of Walnut Flats. And from what I hear, it's where Elena is taking us today for her story. It sure is. Woohoo. And Nat, thank you for that. I want to say it like Winnie.

Thank you for that marvelous introduction. Ooh, there you go. I love that. She brings the morbid quick. I was like, wait, where is this quote from? All right. So I'm going to be taking you guys back to 1981 and then pulling you forward to 2008. So there's two separate events here.

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Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Way back in May 1981, we're going to be following Laura Susan Sousou Ramsey and her very good friend Robert Mountford Jr. They were both 27 years old at the time. They were working as social workers from Maine. They were going to be hiking this trail together. I believe that Laura joined Robert like halfway through.

He was doing like the entire trail. Gotcha. Now, I wasn't able to find a ton about Robert Mountford Jr. Like his life or anything before this. But I did find I ended up stumbling upon a page that was talking about Laura. And it said that she was a musician, a singer, an actress. She was said to be hilarious, super intelligent. like straight-a-student. She was very loving, just like an amazing person to be around. She was elected

homecoming queen of her high school. And everything that I read was like, she wasn't that typical homecoming queen that was elected because she was like the popular girl. Like she was elected because everyone genuinely was like she is a queen. Like she is just wonderful. Like she's just the best. Yeah. Like she just treats everyone amazingly. Everyone feels comfortable around her. She was just like purely wonderful basically. Her epitaph actually states that she was a ray of sunshine. And everyone says that it's the perfect descriptor for her. Now, they were actually hiking the Appalachian Trail together for a fundraiser. They were raising money for a school for disabled children back in Maine. And the school was actually run by Robert's mother, which makes

this whole thing even more tragic when we find out what happens. It also just shows how good of people they were. I mean, you just said she's a ray of sunshine and then they're out there for disabled children. I mean, that's amazing. Exactly. And that his mother runs this school. It's like clearly this is just like a whole gene pool of amazing people. Really? So May 19th, 1981, they ended up eating dinner together with a fellow hiker by the name of Randall Lee Smith. They had met him at one of the general stores along the way. And he just kind of like hung out with them. But they said everyone who saw him was like, he was a little strange, but they were really nice people. And everyone says that, you know, along the Appalachian Trail, you kind of help each other out. You're nice,

each other. It's like this nice little community of people who just want to help each other out and just want to see each other get to where they want to go. Yeah, you're all there for the same reason. You're all in the same situation. Yeah. Everybody, you know, this person can probably help you with this thing and you'll be able to help them with another thing. It's just like a nice little community there. One hand washes the other. Exactly. And they were on their way at this time, May 19th, to the Wapidi shelter. And they were going to be staying there for the night. Now, talking about Randall Smith really quick, he was a troubled kid who came from a very strange home life with his mother Loretta. There was a lot of weird things in his childhood. He was known as a loner in school. He was obsessed with taking off on the Appalachian

Trail, especially on the weekends he would just be gone, like just going off into the wilderness. It was usually probably to escape his very, like, kind of sad life and also probably his own thoughts. People in his life described him as a habitual liar as he got older. He even had the nickname L.R. for Lion Randall. Mind and Randall. Yeah. Oh, God. And apparently he didn't really care about that.

Like, people would call him that. And he was like, yeah. Like, he just, he was perfectly fine with being called that. He's proud of it. He's like, yeah, I am that. Yeah. He's like, you can't trust me. So leave me alone.

Oh, no. He's bleak. Yeah, he is bleak. Bleak, like every. And he's, honestly, everything about Randall Smith, his entire life was bleak till the very end. Now, they all had a meal together at the Wapiti shelter. They had invited him to sit with them and he. eat. Like, they were those kind of people. Had a nice meal. Everybody's chatting. After the meal was

done, Smith suddenly stands up and just attacks Laura and Robert. Out of nowhere, unprovoked, just attacked them. He ended up shooting Mountford in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Just just shot him, pulled out a pistol and shot him in the head. Then he ended up bludgeoning Laura with a piece of iron that he produced out of his pocket and stabbed her multiple times. He killed them both. He dragged the bodies away in their own sleeping bags and he buried them in shallow graves away from each other. And this was unprovoked. Nothing was stolen from them. Like they had just fed him. They had just fed him and treated him like a human being. Like that's all they had done. It's so scary. Was just invited him to eat with them. Just a total random act of violence.

Completely random. And what we find out too is there is no motive. Like this guy has no motive for what He just wanted to. He's just an evil guy. Like, he really does. And they were reported missing really quickly because there was a fellow hiker that they had met on this trip because obviously they came along across a lot of people. And they were really cool people. So they made a lot of friends. And so this fellow hiker had made plans with them to meet in a place above Peresburg, but they didn't show up.

And when they didn't show up, she couldn't get in touch with them. So she contacted the police and were like, I'm concerned. and they wouldn't just blow me off like this. And they're really experienced. I don't think they got lost along the way. So their family members actually ended up driving out from Maine to come here and aid in the search. And all of them were super concerned. They were all 100% sure that foul play had happened here because especially Robert was such a skilled woodsman that they were like,

I don't see an accident happening. Like something bad happened here. And authorities asked people on the trail if they had seen the couple or heard from, from them because obviously they had made some friends, and a few of them mentioned that they had seen Robert and Laura with a quote, strange looking man. And they said they saw them in various places on the trail with him, especially leading up to their disappearance. Most of them said they'd seen them all heading towards that Wapiti shelter area. Now during this investigation in search, multiple people also said that someone they had

known or come across who went by the name of Lion Randall was walking around telling people that he knew what happened to those missing hikers. So he was just bragging about it. Oh, God. So he's just telling people. And he's doing this on the trail, you said? Yeah, he's going on the trail. And obviously this was spreading through the hiking community.

So, like, everybody on the trail was like a little on edge being like, what happened to these people? Like, we got to be careful. Yeah, like everybody was taking safety precautions. And he's walking around and people are talking about it. And when he hears people talking, I wonder where they are. wonder what happened. He's like, I know what happened. And like, won't say what happened. He's just telling them. Imagine being alone out there and someone says that to you. And he's just like, I don't have service. I can't call 911 and I'm in the middle of the woods. And I'm like, yeah, and I'm stuck here.

Like I can't just be like, okay, I'm done. I'm going to leave now. It's like, nope, now I have to hike all the way back out if I want to leave. It's like I'm 30 miles away from civilization right now. Yeah. What do you do there? It's so scary. And he was a scary guy. Like he was just, he had a scary way about him. He looked scary. It was just, these people were really good people for just, like, sitting with him and having dinner and not being like, okay, creep. Like, please go away. Right. I was going to say, it sounds like everyone else was like, he was scary. Yeah. It's okay. And they were just like, sure, we'll feed you dinner. Like, we'll just hang out with you because you seem like you're strange and a loner and we'll just kind of be nice. Extend some kindness. Yeah, exactly. And as we'll

see, he even recognizes that they were kind to people because he actually, they find a note. later that he reveals like, wow, they were really nice to me. Wow. Yeah, so he was just evil. Now, May 30th, 11 days after they went missing, the Wapiti shelter was finally searched. And investigators found a ton of blood between the floorboards. All of a sudden, they, I think one of them was looking down and was like, I saw this weird dark stuff between the floorboards and I stuck a knife in there and kind of like skidded it

across. And when I pulled it out, it was wet blood. Ooh. Now the blood matched that of Robert Mountford and Laura Ramsey. A search of the area revealed a barely covered in leaves grave site about 30 yards away from the crime scene. This is when they found Laura Ramsey in her sleeping bag. The following day, and they looked everywhere. They didn't find, they could not find Robert.

The following day, they brought in canines, and the canines were the ones that led them to Robert, who was also found in his sleeping bag, a few hundred yards away from the crime scene. And again, barely covered, like shallow graves just leaves thrown on them. Like, he didn't care if they were found or not. Now, autopsy showed that. that Robert had been shot in the head. And Laura had been, she had intensely fought back against her attacker. There was tons of defensive wounds.

She had been hit very hard in the head with a piece of iron. And he had used not only a knife to stab her, but a long nail was used to stab her over 13 times. Yeah. A nail? Yeah, a long nail, which I'm like, what? And it just shows you that he, like, came prepared and ready to do this. Oh, yeah. Because why else would he have an iron pipe and a long nail?

Like he has several different weapons on him and these aren't weapons like you don't need in a big long nail to fight a bear off. And for something with no motive, it's so personal. Exactly. And so vicious. And like rage filled. It's really scary to think that somebody that you spend the entire evening with and like the whole day with just snaps out of nowhere.

Just pulls out a gun and shoot you in the head. Like no argument, nothing. Yeah. And it's like, did he snap or was he planning on? doing this to them all day. And it's like they were sitting with him all day and didn't even realize that this was going to happen. Probably. He probably had this in his head. And we're hiking. Yeah. They're just hiking together, have no idea. Wow. And investigators also found around this crime scene a paperback book that Laura had in her bag that she was reading along the trail. And inside the

book, they found bloody fingerprints on the book. And they were matched to Randall Lee Smith. Wow. Who was already in the system because he had worked for some like ship. yards and he had to have his fingerprints on file, so they were able to match it right away. Now, they searched Smith's home and they found a blood-soaked pair of blue-jean shorts that belonging to him in the blood was matching the victims. They found it in the basement of his home. They also found what was said to be, they wouldn't say exactly what was found, but they said other items belonging to the missing hikers down there. Now, interestingly, according to the Standard Times, and it was an article written by Will Haywood, they apparently also

found medical instruments down there that he had fashioned into sex toys. Bye. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. No. Yeah. What kind of medical? Thank you. Because when I read that, I was like, I'm sorry. What? Like, what exactly what medical thing did you fashion into? What? Yeah, like, I'm just like lacking my brain of like, yeah, trying to think. Every type of instrument. Everything is stainless steel and sharp. I'm actually shutting my brain down in order to not think about that. I was really trying to come up with what these could be, but I cannot fathom what he did. That's for the better. That's for the better, guys. We don't need to know. We weren't meant to. We're all just like, yeah. And did he work in the medical field? How did he obtain medical instrument? I mean, it's not difficult, but it's random. But it's like,

where did that come from? Well, his mother had worked in the laundry room of a hospital his entire life. And they think that maybe he had stolen those items at some point during that time. Now, they also found a note in the ashtray of his truck, and this note was just a little scribbled note that he had written, and it said, quote, this boy and girl have been so nice to me. It's going to be a real shame when the time comes to get rid of them. Or like it doesn't have to come. Fully planning. What? Fully planning it. Fully planned ahead. It's like, oh, they're really nice, but it's going to happen. Yeah. And just recognizing like they've been really kind to me and that now I have to do this. And it's like you don't. And that there's no reason for it. None. Like just no motive given at all. And like you were saying, like people thought he was scary looking and like felt like off about him. I'm sure he ran into people that were not nice to him. And it's like, I mean, I'm happy he didn't pick other people. But you pick the two people that were the kind of. Yeah. That's the thing. I don't get it. It just makes you not want to be nice. Exactly. And that's the thing. And that's the thing. It's so true.

I was driving home today, actually, and the long trail is in my town and goes through, and there is this guy hitchhiking. And the, I'm sure, where he was going, it's about like four miles north of my house. And I'm like, oh, if I didn't think you were going to murder me, I would totally give you a red. Right. If I didn't know you were going to murder me. Alas. Here we are.

Alas. I'm terrified. I'm just going to go home. Yeah. Absolutely not. So, and you look at the 70. and hitchhiking and it's like, woo, yeah. There's been so many cases that I'm like, ooh, glad I never did that and never picked

anyone up. Yeah. It's not great. Well, and it's so sad because so the hiking community as a whole kind of like you touched on, especially on the AT, there is a community of, you know, like we want to help each other out and we're all here for the same reasons. You look out for each other. You look out for each other.

And there's a lot of, I mean, not to call Cassie out, but Cassie and her partner. partner Al, like, took in people from the trail. With a lot of trail, wasn't it? Oh. Yeah. Some through hikers, we met out hiking. And they were like, oh, we're staying in this town tonight. But there's no hotels or anything.

And I was like, oh, I live in that town. Do you want to just like stay here? Oh, my God. It was kind of a mutual trust, though, you know? Like, they had to trust we weren't bringing them and Twitter them. Yeah. And now we're all friends. And now it's friends.

And it's like, that is kind of. the understanding, like that mutual understanding that like you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. We're all here for the same thing. And then, but there's, it's things like this that make you question that and pause. And it's a shame. Because nine times out of 10, it's like, could be a beautiful, like, friendship. Yeah. Or even just a cool couple hours with somebody. Like, yeah. You might meet somebody that you never would have. Exactly. Yeah. And that's in from what I've read just to like pointed out again, this trail is supposedly when it comes to like safety, it's a very safe trail. Like murders are not common. Rapes are not common. Assaults are not common on this trail. Like it's

considering how huge it is. Like there would likely I think like proportionally it would be it probably should be a lot more considering what a terrible thing the human race is. But there's, It's a really safe place. So this is a very strange thing to happen. So like a hiker shouldn't be scared to like hike this trail that they're going to be murdered because it's really not a common thing. Yeah. But the AT is actually full of really great people for the most part.

Exactly. And that's the thing. And you should be able to trust another. It just sucks that we can't trust another human being just to be a kind person. Like that you have to second guess somebody being kind is like, are you just being kind so you can murder me? Like you. Yeah.

Right. It sucks that we have to do that. what's the caveat here? Yeah, right. Like, why are we the worst? Why are we the worst thing that happened to this planet? Why can't I just give you a ride? Yeah.

Why can I just eat dinner next to you? Because the world would be such a nice place if we all just like stop murdering each other, you know? It'd be great. I wish if it was that easy, we could just be like, hey guys, let's all stop murdering each other. Yeah. And everyone was like, great idea. I never thought of that. That's a great idea.

Because like you taking in the hikers, like that's awesome. Yeah. That's so cool. And it's like, but everybody's got to like second guess like, is this person? I'm sure they were like walking in and they're like, all right, where are the exits? Exactly. But it really is like a rare thing. But after this whole thing, once they found the stuff, the really strange things in his basement, he had actually fled the state and was nowhere to be found.

Yeah, he got out of there. So at this time, the manhunt is active for him. They know this is the guy, but it's kind of out of standstill at the same time because they don't know where he went. And that's scary because they know he's an active hiker and like an outdoorsman. So he could be lurking anywhere. Exactly. Any trail. Exactly.

And he was an avid outdoorsman. Right. He was going to be able to stay outside for a long time. They're just hitting walls at this point. So the investigator leading the case was Tom Lawson. And at this point, he said it was so overwhelming. and they were hitting wall after wall. And he said he took his family, like his kids and his wife,

on just like a little getaway to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. He was like, we were literally going for a few days just to like clear my mind because I was so stressed about this case. And at this point, while they were there, he was called by the police station back home and told that police had arrested Randallie Smith. But they didn't arrest him back there. They arrested him in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

What? I'm like, where he was. Yeah. Like, what are the odds? Oh, that's scary. He's like, why did I go on vacation in the place that he had run away to? It's like, I was trying to get away from this. And I followed him.

Here? Yeah. What? Unbeknownst to me. Yeah. Whoa. It was wild. And it's like, what are the odds?

And Randall didn't know that he was there. No idea. Like, Randall had just run there before. That's crazy. He happened to go. So weird. Now, when they picked him up, he said that he had amnesia. And he didn't even know his name.

He didn't know why he was in Myrtle Beach. Didn't know his name. Didn't know anything. If it doesn't work for the housewives, it's not going to work for you. You should have said it to him, you know? That's what I should have called you down there. I've been like, this does not work for the housewives. I wouldn't have told him.

So, you know. But they were like, we know this is not amnesia. We know that you know who you are, but we got to figure out how to, like, trick you into admitting that you know who you are. So apparently he had like this guy. He had clearly been staying outside. He had been, like, on the run because he was. covered in bug bites. Covered. And they said he had like scratched some of them raw. It was just like really bad. And he was clearly uncomfortable and like a mess. The bugs knew. They did. And so the police were

like, hmm, okay, we can use this. So one of them was like, dude, like I like, you know, I know a doctor. And I know that some of these are like really bad and need medical attention like right now. Like they're going to get really bad. Like you could die from this. You should probably see a doctor. And he was like, oh, shit, okay. And they were like, okay, cool. Those bug bites are fatal. They were literally like, these mosquito bites could kill you, my dude. And he was like, I believe you.

Right. So he was like, that sounds right. Yeah, and he totally bought it. That's all they did. And they went, here's a consent form, a medical consent form, and we'll get you a doctor in here. And he signed the paper, Randall Lee Smith. What a ding. It is.

And they were like, oh, come on. I have amnesia, but I do know my signature and my name. Yep. And they were just like, thank you, Randall. And he was like, how's that amnesia doing? Crap. So, feeling better, son? So that fell apart real quick for him.

But they brought him back to, they extradited him back to Virginia. And now, instead of saying, I have amnesia, and I don't remember anything, they were like, you need to tell us what happened. And he just said, no, I'm not telling you. Yeah. And he just said, I'm not talking about it. So now they're like, you remember what happened? He's like, sure do. Just not going to tell you.

Wouldn't talk about it. Yeah. Refused to acknowledge them. Such a dick. And they did psychiatric testing on him because of the whole amnesia thing. They were like, let's clear that out and make sure. He was also kind of showing he was kind of pretending to have like dissociative disorder traits. Like he was really trying to play on like, I don't know what's going on.

I'm not even here. But they found out through testing that he was 100% faking all of it, completely faking everything. And what makes it so clear that he was very sane when he did this was the complete premeditation. Like he had written down a note saying it's going to be a shame. I have to get rid of them. And the completely diabolical way he tried to cover up the crime after he did it, he hid the bodies, which is a logical way of thinking for a killer who wants to get away with their crime. And also, this shows that he's aware he did something wrong and would be arrested for it if it was caught. Like, that is a very clear line of thinking for a sane person. He also went back

down the trail after he murdered them, and he removed Laura and Roberts' names in information from any logbooks along the way it stops. Wow. To make sure people couldn't follow their path. Like, that is beyond. Calculated. So calculated. He also ripped the film out of Laura's camera and took it with him.

They never found it. Oh, that's sad, too, because, like, her family should have that. Which is chilling, too, because I'm like, did you take pictures? Like, what happened? Oh, yeah. Together or during or whatever. That's the thing. It's so chilling.

Yeah, just removing any sort of evidence of him. being associated with them other than word of mouth, of course. Exactly, which is what I think happened. I'm sure they took pictures together and he thought about it was like, I got to take this away. Which is calculated. So again, no motive found. He would not even try to spill a motive out. But they were trying to prove also that they believed that Laura unfortunately had been sexually

assaulted. Unfortunately, because the deteriorations of her remains when they found her, they weren't able to physically prove it. but they were trying to get him to admit it because they knew they could get him on that too and get a bigger sentence on top of everything but they weren't able to he would not speak they couldn't get any of it and everyone was everything was moving towards a trial and then suddenly the night before out of nowhere he pleads guilty to two counts of second degree murder which i'm like how second degree murder yeah like you wrote down it's a shame these people are going to have to die like the

note the removing the logbook stuff the like that's all very there's premeditation and And this cover-up involved, all of it. Yeah, this was clearly intentional. It wasn't. But I'm sure second-degree murder carries way lighter sentence. Exactly. Yeah. And he took this random plea deal.

And apparently the attorney felt the case wasn't as strong because they didn't have a motive. But the investigators disagreed completely. And they were like, no. We have tons of physical evidence. Yeah. His fingerprints are there. Yep.

I don't know what the attorney was thinking. In blood. Literally in blood on. her book was his fingerprints, the note, and then everything found in his house. I'm like, ah, I think you could have gone. And he found he was lying about amnesia, too. Yeah. And he ran. It's like, I wonder if they just didn't want to go through the trial. Yeah. Well, I mean, Laura and Robert's families agreed to it, but they were not happy about it at first, but they agreed. They were also, the victims' families were so respectful of each other during this process. Like,

Robert's father, Robert Mountford Sr., said that they were only going to, to take that plea deal, they were only going to agree to allowing that to happen if the Ramses were okay with it. So like the two of them were like, we have to agree 100%. Nobody, if one person in these two families doesn't want that plea deal and wants to have a trial go through, we all agree. That's awesome. Which is really cool. Like that doesn't happen all the time. And he ended up being sentenced to 30 years in prison, which I don't think is enough. But that's just me. For murdering two people in cold blood, I wouldn't say so. Yeah. And it gets worse. So. So people were shook from this.

There was like a lot of people questioning, like we were just talking about whether the trail was safe, freaking out about like, should I even go on the Appalachian Trail now? The crime got, the crime's got a ton of coverage. So of course, again, it's very rare. Another one of these did not happen like for a long time. Like it's a very rare thing. Now, he ended up being released from prison in 1996 after only 15 years. What?

He got out on good behavior, which is very rare thing. bullshit. Oh my God. I never get that because of course you're going to behave well if you think you're going to get let out of prison and you can do exactly what you did to land in prison in the first place. Exactly. It makes me crazy. It's like, okay, well, he wasn't behaving good before. Right. So why are we like extending the opportunity to someone who commits such a brutal, vicious act? Yeah. After serving even 50% like I understand that there is reform and people, you know, All of that. For sure. We're not here to get into that. No, totally not. But at the same time, like, it's just a huge, for lack of a better term, it's a slap in the face to the families and the victims and to just be like, yeah, well, he's being chill here. So he can go. Like, he listens to us in here. So I think it's fine. And it's like, he didn't even give you a motive. He listens to us with armed security.

Exactly. Right. Exactly. He's locked behind bars and he's doing pretty good at it. And it's like, I don't what? That's not the same as being allowed to wander one of the biggest trails in the country. Like, that's a little different. He can't hunt people in prison. Exactly. And it's like, you don't, that was such a brutal, brutal crime. And he spent time with these people. He liked these people seemingly.

Like, he got to know these people and then he brutally murdered them. That's a whole different kind of beast, in my opinion. Definitely. And he wasn't remorseful at all. Not at all. That's the thing. And wouldn't even say what happened. And it wasn't like self-defense.

fence. It wasn't like, it was just because a crime of passion, which would still be messed up, but at least there would be like some kind of like motive involved in it. Just nothing. Just I had to do it and I did it. How do you deem him safe for society? Yeah, that's the thing. I don't get it. I don't understand it. But the families of Laura and Robert were horrified, rightfully so. That was not enough time for what was done to their loved ones. He ended up going to to live with his mother back in his childhood home in Ingram. And he had a mandatory monitoring bracelet fitted for his ankle because he was on a 10-year monitored probation.

He was quiet, didn't get into any trouble, not even a parking ticket. And then nothing. But remembered, he was being monitored very closely up until about 2006. So of course he's going to be quiet. He has a monitor bracelet on. 2008 came around and his neighbors reported into police saying there's all this mail pie. up on his front door and like we haven't seen him for a while like you might want to go check on him like I don't know what's going on nervous so they went in nothing really crazy was found during

the search of his house or anything but they did find out that his utilities had been turned off because of non-payment okay and he wasn't there and he at this point he's living separately from his mom yeah his mom had actually passed away from cancer like years before oh okay so no one's in the house and they're like okay so I don't know what happened to him so a search party is for because they're like, we should probably find out where he is because he is like a convicted felon. And they put out posters and they were thinking he was probably along the Appalachian Trail because that's where he would go. So they put up posters along the trail.

And they were passing them out to people with his picture on them being like, just we don't know what's going on. Like if you come across him, maybe be a little careful, which I'm like, maybe he shouldn't be out then. I don't know. That's just me. Maybe he should be banned from the trail. That's literally my next line right here is love that he was allowed.

back there should be banned for life after murdering two people, but that's just me. Like, I don't know. People get banned from like whole ass states. You're not going to ban him from the place where he killed. Yeah, for way less. Way less. And you're not going to ban him from the place where he brutally murdered two people. Yeah. And unfortunately, it's like a perfect hunting ground for him. Exactly, because he knows it like the back of his hand too. Yeah. So May 8th, 2008, which what's with May? The first one happened in May. So I think May is significant for him. I couldn't find what, but there's definitely significance. Mother's Day.

A guy named Sean Farmer headed out to meet with his friend Scott Johnson to go fishing along the Appalachian Trail up above Dismal Falls. They'd been there a bunch of times they'd grown up around there. They were going to camp there, I think, for just a night, just kind of hang out. Like, they do this all the time. And when Sean arrived, all of a sudden this guy walks up to him at the campsite. He didn't see Sean yet, or he didn't see Scott yet. But this guy walks up to him. He's like an older guy.

kind of like thin and hunched over. And he's like, hey, I'm Ricky Williams. And he's like, hi, Ricky Williams. Like, what's going on? And he's like, oh, I met your friend Scott. You must be Sean. Like, we were just fishing up there next to each other. And he's like, you know, Scott told me that I could join you guys for dinner. Is that all right with you? And he's like, sure. Like, why not? Yeah. Whatever. Like, cool. So together, like, they go fishing. They do some more fishing together. Together they had fried trout and beans over a fire. They're all just sitting shooting the shit. And when he's done, he sincerely thanked them for the meal. And they were like, no problem, dude.

And they said, like, this is just what you do. But Ricky Williams was actually Randallie Smith. And after thanking them for their hospitality, he pulled out a 22 caliber revolver and shot both Sean and Scott. Sean was hit in the temple and in the chest. And he was shot in the chest when he ran at Randall to attack him, to try to stop him. Scott was hit in the side of the neck,

then hit again in the back of the neck, and in the back when he ran into the woods away from him. Shot three times. Three times at least. Oh, my God. He was literally in the woods having to plug the hole in his neck with his fingers to stop the bleeding. Okay. They survived this.

Both of them survived. Both of them. Wow. And they actually fled the scene in Smith's truck. They took his truck, fled the scene. One of them is driving with literally, the one that was shot in the temple was driving. The other one is sitting there trying to hold his neck together. Like, they're driving down.

Your neck is pretty. Yeah. And somehow it missed like every major artery and like the jugular somehow. Wow. That's like a miracle. And they are literally it's dark out. They're on this like windy road. And he can, he's been shot in the temple.

And he's trying to like, it's wild. They ended up going several miles away and finally came upon a house, which was like miles and miles away. And a woman named Melissa Miller opened her door for them, took them into her home, and immediately called police and called the paramedics for them. Now, Sean later said that Randallie Smith's face, he can remember it perfectly. He said when he pulled out that gun and started shooting, there was no emotion on his face. He stared us both in the eyes and just kept coldly shooting at us. Didn't say anything, just shooting at us. And he's like it was wild. Now, Smith, Actually, Randallie Smith stole Scott Johnson's Ford Ranger because they had stole his car to go get out of there.

Like, stole, I say. Fled away because they were bleeding. But Sean and Scott were able to identify him. So he's on the run in their car. They're able to identify him because someone, I think it was Melissa Miller, showed them the missing person's poster that was being circulated for Randallie Smith. And was like, is this the guy? And I guess Sean was like, that's the guy.

But his name is Ricky Williams. And she was like, it's not. No, it's not. Like, this is him. And they were like, yeah, he killed two people on the Appalachian Trail, like years ago. So now the police are like, oh, great, we have to go find this car. So they put out a bolo. They finally tracked a car.

They went on a, like, huge car chase after him. He ended up flipping the truck at the end of it and crashing. He lived, but he was arrested on the spot and charged with two counts of attempted murder. He was brought in for treatment to New River Regional Jail Medical Unit. and he died of a blood clot soon after arriving and just traveled to his heart. Oh, that makes me so mad. So he died in jail, but he was only, he was 54 years old. He looked about 110.

If you look up a picture of him, he looked like he was already dead. Well, you said he was 54. 54. She showed me the photo of him. Actually, while you were on vacation, I was on your computer and I opened the tab by accident. I'm like, who the fuck is this? Like, what? Because it was just a picture of him sitting there, like, looking like the

cribkeeper. You know what? I kind of want to look it up right now. You should. He's horrified. He looks like jigsaw. He does. He looks just like jigsaw. He's got jigsaw vibes. For sure. Oh my god. Yeah, he looked to be like 200. Okay. I don't know who I just looked up. But it came up with this like Victorian guy and he was like pretty hot. I'm like, okay, wait a second. You're like, couldn't be him. Couldn't be. Couldn't be Randall. Yeah. He don't. He? Yeah.

This man? Yes. I'm looking at the same photo. He's four. Yeah, that's the pick that I scared the shit out of myself with. Okay, look at this one, Cassie. That one's even worse. I'm on that one.

That's so scary. His badness was leaking out of every pore of him. No, that man is a literal monster. Like, in every sense of the word. He is as nasty outside as inside. Okay. Anyone who agreed to eat dinner in the woods with this? guy was a saint.

Because I would run screaming in the other direction. I'd be like, you've got to go away. What a weird pathology he has. Like to eat dinner with people and then murder them. Yeah. Yeah. Such an intimate setting again to just be like, yeah, we'll share a meal, we'll chat, we'll probably learn about each other's lives over a meal.

Yeah. And then to do that. It's so wild. And who knows? Like, if those two men didn't survive, who would have been next? Because clearly, clearly, this is something that he would have continued. Yeah, of course. He's got an MO for sure.

It's like he stopped being monitored and he lasted two more years before the known one, at least. Who knows? Right. We don't know if there's any out there. That's what I was just thinking. You know, and it's like he only lasted two years before he did the exact same thing. But how scary is it, too, that, like, if there weren't any in the middle, he just waited for 20 years. And you know he was sitting in that cell being like, like, I know, I know what I'm going

to do when I get out. And as soon as I'm a free man, like, as soon as he got the chance, like, that's what he's going to do. And it's like your, so he was clearly, like, out in the Appalachian trail a lot. Like, like, neighbors said he was still hiking. He was still going out all the time during his monitoring period and everything. People would see him out there. Like, he was spending a lot of time going right back to where he was. And it's like, so you are, to me, like from what I read, obviously, I've not been on the trail, but it's like from what I read, like you were saying, like everyone seems like they're real chill out there and everybody's like really kind and just like helping each other out and looking. Wouldn't that like, how does that not rub off on you in

anyway? Like you just like, and you immediately are like these two guys are like, yeah, come fishing with us and have some dinner. We're just hanging out and you try to kill them. Like what? Who are you? A monster. Like truly. The fact that was, Law enforcement knew that he was still hiking because he was monitored while he was hiking, right? Yeah. So they knew he was out there and they didn't find that odd. Yeah, no one was like, maybe you shouldn't do that. Maybe he's going back to old patterns.

Exactly. Because for the end of this, what they find later, because they went back out to the places where people were saying they were seeing him in those weeks that he was missing from his home. And they found a campsite of his. and it had a big pile of just crap in it from him. And there was some strange stuff in there that make me question if there's other cases that are going to be linked to him because they found audio recordings of chanting and moaning and screaming. Uh-huh. Of him or other hand?

Just like sounds. Like they couldn't distinguish. They couldn't distinguish if they were other people or what. There was a lot of like they tried to attribute it to like the Wiccan religion items. But I was like, yeah, Wiccans don't normally like go murder people. Like, I don't know if that's... It's not a violent. It's not a violent.

It's actually all about, like, worshiping the world and, like, the earth. Yeah, I was like, I think you got that wrong. But there was also a police scanner out there. And there was a list of, like, police codes that would be called on the scanner. So he could understand. Exactly. And a ton of knives. A ton of different knives.

And then they found at least eight pairs of women's underwear. Oh, no. And a pile of women's sunglasses. Oh. And eyeglasses. That's like some wrong turn shit. Yeah. That's some wrong turn Wolf Creek.

Like, it's terrifying shit. Oh, that's creepy. Because it's like he could have either killed more people or was in probably and or was like breaking into people's campsites and stealing things. And maybe like preparing for things and like doing who knows what he was up to. Oh my God. That just gave me like the piles of stuff. Yeah. just, it's so invasive.

Like, because, I mean, best case scenario, quote unquote, these women weren't killed. Exactly. And they were just that, you know, had their things rifled through. That is just, it's such an invasion of privacy. And, like, it makes you so feel like, okay, well, obviously these came from somewhere. So am I even safe? Exactly. You know, and a lot of people who are on the AT or do camp.

in general anywhere, there is always kind of a, even as peaceful and as great as a trip as it is, there's always kind of like a, I'm literally in a canvas-sided or like polyester, like, there is a flap of fabric separating me and the rest of the world. And a lot of the times it's more so you're concerned about like wildlife, depending on where you are and things like that, not necessarily other people. But of course, that's going to be something in the back of your mind. Of course. And just imagine waking up and, like, getting up and being like, where are my underwear?

Oh, yeah. I can't even fathom that because. And it's like, okay, I know that it's the only piece. It's not like something ripped through my bag and everything's missing. It's like just this garment. They chose one thing. Right. One thing to take with them.

And so you know that someone was there. Mm-hmm. And they know that you are going to find out that this is, yeah, it's just a, it's so creepy. Well, my mind first goes to sexual assault. Exactly. Yeah. That especially because they thought like he could have possibly done it before. And if he has sunglasses and women's underwear, it just feels like they're these weird

souvenirs. And also, I think that that would be less likely to be reported. Or it's not his M.O. So he wouldn't be the purpose. person. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking too. And imagine like you were just saying, Daniel, like waking up and realizing that and then having to continue your trip. Yeah. Because you're in the middle of nowhere and like you still have to keep hiking. Yep. That's so scary. You still have to sleep out there. Yeah. Well, I will probably tell this story

at length at another time. But I have had, I wasn't on the trail, but I had someone when I was in college and my first apartment ever, I woke up to someone in my room. And I essentially, I woke up and my boyfriend at the time was sound asleep next to me. And I woke up. I thought it was him, like, of course. Touching me. Touching my leg. And I wake up and I'm like pissed that I think it's him like trying to do something while I'm asleep. You're like, what the hell? I'm like, what the fuck and I wake up and I see his back turned away from me. That is a nightmare. And it was in the middle of the night.

It was New Year's. So I went to sleep drunk. Right. Oh my God. I was like, what is happening right now? And I turn over and there's a guy standing there. And he just went. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

And I was just like, okay. Oh, I guess no one else can see me. So I would, like the shish, like, symbol. Yeah. And I was just like, I was frozen. Like we talk about Cassie and I talk about this all the time. Like, fight, flight or freeze. And I fucking froze. Because what else are you going to do? You're in your most vulnerable position. Yeah. I was just like, what do I do? And he just backed out of the house and just left. And I was just like for literally 30 seconds straight, which is the longest 30 seconds in my whole life. I was just like, what just happened? And I wake up Nick at the time. And I was just like, and I wake up Nick at the time. And he's like, he's like, wait, what? And like, Liam Neeson, he's like, I'm out of him. I love it.

I'm going. And did he get him? I'm like, okay, first of all, what are you going to do? You're not clothed. I don't clothed. You're not clothed. And you have no idea what's going on. It's the middle of the night.

You guys are sober either, too, right? We're not sober. I mean, it's like, we're in college. We're in college. And so I'm just like, what the fuck happened? And he was like, he kind of, he did. didn't do it intentionally, but he was just like, are you sure that happened? He's like, because there's no force entry. Like, there's like, and my roommates who lived with me, I had two

roommates, all of their stuff was there. Their laptops were out. Our purses were on the counters. Like, there's nothing missing. But like, that's clearly not what he was there for. He was there to like, fuck with you. You know, this is also over 10 years ago now. So I'm just kind of like, yeah, maybe. I know, because you start questioning, like, what the hell happened there? Yeah, I'm like, I'm not sure, actually. And he's like, maybe you just had a really fucking weird dream. Like, who knows? And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. And he kind of convinced me, we go back to sleep. And then the next morning, he's in the shower. I'm getting stuff ready. And I realized that both of our phones and wallets are gone. Oh, my God. Out of our pants. Like, the pockets of the pants.

of the pants. So I'm like, okay, this definitely fucking happened. Yeah, you're like, okay, yeah. And so it's just like the invasion of like, you are here for a reason and you took these things like that have no value. We're fucking college kids. Yeah. Right. Like we have a flip bone and a dollar, like one single dollar bill. Like, so you have our information. You know where I live. You didn't take anything of value. And you woke me up. up intentionally. Like it's just... That's the part that just gets me.

So it's like the invasion of like you are here for this one little thing. And it's just that was a really long roundabout story to tell like just so I understand that invasion of what the fuck. Like and this could have led to something way worse. Oh my God. And nothing ever came of this. Like did you find out who did this? No.

But you did, Danielle. you found your ID. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh, my God. There's another layer to this story. I was going to say that more. I'm invested.

I'm like, skip my story. Just tell yours. Yeah, forget that. So this is, I obviously like freak out. And I tell my parents who, of course, now I have really no money. I have no means of communication. I had to find literal change throughout the house. Go to a pay phone and call my family because this is like, like,

It was like Christmas break, so my roommates were gone. I couldn't use their, like everyone's off campus. And that's even scarier too. Yeah. So I'm just like, okay, so I finally get to them. They, you know, come, help me, whatever. We reinforce the shitty apartment I'm in. And I don't know, like a month goes by. And campus security called me. And they're like, hey, someone turned in your, it was like, it wasn't my driver's license. It was the ID that you used to like get into like the dining commons. And. and whatever the fuck. And I was like, oh, okay. Because I was like, I had it reissued, but I do lose things a lot. So I was like, okay, well, I guess like maybe I dropped it or something. I'll go get it. Yeah.

And I go in and they're like, oh, here you go. And it's my original one. No. From my wallet. No. That was taken. Where did they find it? They just found it on campus.

They said someone turned it in. They said someone turned it in. So I wonder if like that guy just dropped it somewhere. And somebody was like, oh, let me be helpful. Or like, did he turn it in? I don't. Yeah. I hate it.

And I'm sorry, how much, how much time in between? Like, there's like a month. So I wonder, like, he could have to like remind you that it happened. I know, because if I'm thinking, like, if it was truly dropped, like, in the moment, I mean, that would have happened, like, pretty immediately. Right. Exactly. Like, someone would have been like, oh, here you go. And I also lived off campus.

I mean, it was walking distance. but like if someone just found that on the street near my apartment, they wouldn't have gone all the way onto campus and turned it in. Like it would have had to be, I don't know. I don't know. So anyways, it was just, my theory is there was construction going on. They were building a new off-campus housing literally right next door to my shitty apartment. And it was break. So nobody was in my parking lot because everyone had left and it was just my car there.

So I think someone was like watching. And they know like it's like we're all your roommates like female too. Yeah, all my roommates were female. So they probably know like this one girl is alone. Yeah. And my boyfriend at the time didn't like he didn't have a car. Right. Yeah.

So they would never know. They wouldn't have known that he was there. So they just thought you were alone. My God. Which is like what were they planning to do if you were alone? Right. And just to think that they were casing your apartment. like, ah.

I know. Like, that was purely to terrorize you. Like, that was all, every part of that was terrorizing. I know. It's like, okay, so you intentionally woke me up to scare me. That's the part that kill. That's like terrorizing. Oh, I hate the shush thing.

As soon as you did that, I screamed. To like let you know that they could get in. Oh. And then like no panic. He just like backs out of the place. He just literally went like that, the shish thing. And walked backwards. And slowly backed out and just shut the door.

It wasn't like, oh shit, she's awake. I have to go. That's even scarier. Because you said he, like, touched her leg to wake you up. Yep. Ooh, I hate it. Girl, friend. Oh, my God.

You just, like, rocked our shit on a fucking Wednesday. Oh, my God. I know. Like, a crackadone. Yeah, sorry. I mean, and I don't mean to laugh about it because it's obviously like. No, it's like a nervous laugh. But it's like kind of like, I can't even fucking believe that happened to me.

Yeah. Like, I feel like that was, I mean, first of all, it was so long ago. but also it was like an out-of-body experience. It's like, this is not happening right now. It's like when sleep paralysis happens. Because I get sleep paralysis. And when I, it's horrible. And when you wake up, you see something in your room with you.

I see it. And every time that it happens, I don't realize it's sleep paralysis. So my brain immediately goes. And I'm sure this is what yours did. It's just like, is this really happening? Like, is someone actually in my, like this is really what's going to happen right now? Like someone's in my room. It's always that like weird like train of thinking where you're just like, oh shit, this is like

this is actually happening. The thing I feared is happening. Someone's in my room. And luckily mine goes away because it's not real. Yeah. I can't imagine realizing it's real. Yeah. It is the things your brain do when you're in a fighter flight or not even that or just like a

situation, a traumatic type of situation, you think you would have a like if someone presented me with that and we're like, what would. you do? I think I would have had a completely different reaction than what I actually did, which was nothing. Right. Just disbreath. Which is what I would do. Because I don't know. And who knows what would have happened if I did have a different reaction? I have no idea. I don't fucking know. And it's like, yeah, I have, I don't think I've ever told that story on the podcast, but Cassie has knows. And yeah, it's just, you know, I feel for people who have been. in those situations and especially ones who you find out later that were in that situation

and didn't make it. Right. Because I know how it feels in that first moment. Yeah. Of like what is happening right now. Somebody is in my room right now. Just like chaos. Wow.

That is everyone's worst nightmare. Yeah. Literally. I'm going to have nightmares to me. Oh my God. So sorry to derail this whole thing. No, I'm sorry. That happened to you.

Jesus. I'm glad. Glad you're here telling the story today. Me too. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Well, that's, that's exactly it. And when you're camping, you don't even have the, the, like, luxury, quote-unquote of a door. Like, it's just like... It's like a zipper. Literally, anybody can just walk into anybody's thing and just unzip the thing. I can't fathom that. Yep. And I mean, we say this all the time in regards to camping, like, because a lot of people are afraid to can't. to camp outside or go by themselves or whatever. And I can totally understand that. I mean, I'm a huge baby. Cassie will solo hike and I'm just like, so scared too. But it's like it just goes to

show like my story, everybody else's story that has gone through something like this. It happens way more often in places you think you're safe. It's true. It really does. And so like that's our biggest thing is we don't want to deter anyone from hiking and exploring and camping. just because some awful things have happened there because awful things can happen anywhere. Everywhere. And it's like the more cases you're going to hear that somebody was just lying in bed in their locked house or locked apartment and somebody comes in. Like we have like a sneeze full of outdoor crimes that have committed on our library that we've done. Yeah, 90% of them are homes with a lock and a door.

Sponsored by Sarah. safe. Oh, there you go. Oh, no. Simplysafe.com. Wow. Literally, yeah, home security, like to live in an age that we have that option, like

people who don't have that, like, please take advantage of it. Yeah. Because you won't ever regret it. Phenomenal. Sort of. Truly. I love my little panic button. I love my little boop-boop when somebody opens a door.

No, that all. Love that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a comforting feeling knowing that you have that. It's a nice line of defense. All right. Well, thanks for sharing. Sorry that I horrified everybody. How do I follow that up, everybody? Jesus. Well, I'm excited that you picked the Grand Canyon to go to for your story. That's true. We went there for one story, but it was a long time ago. And I think it was very different than the story that you're telling.

But the Grand Canyon is just such a, I think when you think of national parks, the first, first one many people think of and gravitate towards is the Grand Canyon. Definitely. Definitely. It's just so massive and it's just so different than most of the landscape in the United States. And it's just such a cool park. And it is located in the northwestern corner of Arizona and it's close to like Utah and Nevada. So it's, or Nevada, sorry, if you say Nevada, Nevada, people are pissed. Oh, that's happened to us before.

And I literally always forget that there's even another way to say. it like when I try to remember the other way to say it I'm like how else do you say I know well trust me I we say the word mountains about 5,000 times every episode and I don't say the tea I say mountains mountains oh I do too mountains that's how I would say it mountains mountains riots have ensued right oh well I say the tea that actually does exist and exactly and people either really love that or fucking hate it I'm like sorry for pronouncing words yeah they're like It's mountains, stupid. I'm like, sorry.

I just. And then you say mountains and they're like, it's mounteans, stupid. I didn't know there were so many ways. You are gaslighting me. It's also, I can't know the regional pronunciation of every single place in the entire United States. And is it the beauty of the world that we all speak differently? Regional dialects. And especially New England, it's like, we talk a lot different.

Yeah. Say Worcester. about that. Look at the word Worcester and say it. And say it out loud to my face. Yeah. Right now. Say Lemonster. Look at it and tell me that it says Lemonster. Read any town in Massachusetts. Cituit. Say situate. Hang them. All of them. I don't know. It's like, okay, can we agree when I say Mountain, you know what I'm speaking about? Yeah. That's so funny. I would never even, I would never even pick up on that because I say Mountain. I don't pronounce Mountain. I never knew. I never knew. I never knew.

I was wrong until I said it out loud on a podcast. Oh, you find out a lot about yourself when you start a podcast. Like, I didn't know that I say rum like rum. Yeah, that's like, apparently that's a very New England thing and I didn't realize it. I found out that my voice is actually not my voice. Somebody was like, you don't talk like that. And my friend of 10 years was like, no, she does. Like she always has. And they were like, no, she doesn't. It was like, oh, cool. Who knew? Interesting. Yeah. You know one word I learned and I didn't learn it that I said it this way until I moved down south, but everyone made fun of me for it. Because I lived down near Tennessee for a few years. And when I went down there, I guess I say both, or both instead of both.

I add an L into it. Oh, oh. Both. Both. Both. Both. And how do I say? I know.

Now I'm like, how do I say it? Both. Yeah, I say both. But you say both. That's like I say like clothes and people think I say it weird. Yeah. It's just like all these little things and people are like, that's wrong. I'm like, do I have enough now?

No, no. I feel like I might. If I say like if I hear's the thing, did anyone threaten your life? We're saying it out of the. That's the real crux of the issue. That's always the crooks. So anyway, like, do you have any education at all? And I'm like, yes, I do.

You're like, I swear I do. You're like, who cares? This is how I talk. I'm here, okay. Anyway, we're going to the Grand Canyon. Let's Grand Canyon to know. The Grand Canyon where that place doesn't care how you say it. No.

The Grand Canyon. Grand Canyon. It's the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon is 200. It's too. Okay.

Now you're not speaking any language that we are just speaking incursive. This is probably true. Well, it is 277 miles long, which is 446 kilometers. And there are two major cities that are closest to the Grand Canyon. So there's Phoenix and Las Vegas. So it makes it a really popular destination because it's easy to get to. And it's also not too far from Tucson as well. So there's just like so many different ports you can get into to get there.

So it's one of the reasons why it is so visited. besides it being insanely beautiful. I've never seen it and I've always wanted to. Me either. It's on my list of places to go. I got to see it. Yeah. I've seen it. Well, I say I haven't seen it. I've flown over it and I can see it from the plane. Oh, that's pretty cool. I love that. I was like, oh, there it is. I'm here.

I've been here. Kind of. Can you just touch down really quick? It's like just like parachute me out. It's funny because it's a national park now, obviously, a huge, National Park, but it was actually first a national monument. It was established as a national monument in 1903 by President Theodore Roosevelt, and he stepped off his train and he walked over and he declared it as, quote, a natural wonder absolutely unparalleled throughout the rest of the world and made it a national monument. I love, imagine having that power. That was wild. I think you guys do have that power.

You got some kind of power It's like damn you just like walk off a train and you're like natural wonder National monument I say so It's like the world designates this Yes thank you Well he was the conservation president and he helped establish Like different national forests and national parks And it's funny because I'm actually working on an episode right now

That I'm writing about Theodore Roosevelt National Park And more of his story which goes like very lengthy and a lot of stuff. But he was part of the Grand Canyon being established as a national park. And like I kind of said earlier, tons of people visit. And tons of people is there's almost six million people who visit the Grand Canyon National Park every single year. Oh my God. Wow.

That's nuts. People want to see that wonder, you know. It's true. Well, it's also one of those places where you can visit year round. It's not if you go further north and there's snow all the time. You can go there any time of year and visit. which makes it a really cool destination because you're like, I'm freezing. I'm going to go hang out at the Grand Canyon.

I'm just going to hang at the Grand Canyon. Also, as magnificent and beautiful and wonderful as the Grand Canyon is, it is filled with a lot of stories of death and there's hauntings. There's been plane crashes, helicopter crashes, people fall off cliffs there. There's just a lot of morbid stuff that happens inside of the Grand Canyon. And as of 2021, around 900 people have died there. Wow. And it's a lot.

And on average, 11 people die there every single year. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah, I didn't know that. I mean, I can imagine just because there's all those cliffs everywhere and there's wildlife. Yeah. Well, in the heat. Heat exhaustion and dehydration and things like that.

Of course, play a role. Yeah. And that's a big one. there and then some of it too is from the Colorado River because there's drownings because so many people do kayaking trips and river rafting trips down that's exactly what I'm going to talk about hey you that's perfect because that will lead me right into your story look at my gosh look at that it's like we planned this and we didn't even so yeah I'm going to talk about the grand cany or the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon um and the Colorado River rapids run through that now

Park. And somebody that really loved that national park and the Colorado River Rapids was Morganheimer. So Morganheimer was a 22-year-old guy and he absolutely loved nature. I think you guys would have gotten along well with him. He had grown up in Wyoming and from an early age, he just loved being outside. He completely fell in love with like camping and swimming and hiking, just anything he could do outside he wanted to do. His family said that he was an excellent swimmer and had a ton of outdoor experience. So he'd gone to the University of Wyoming. He studied English. And once he was finished there, he decided that he really just wanted to pursue a career that would keep him outside. And so working for a rafting company couldn't have been more up his alley. And the specific company

that he went to work for at the time of his disappearance was Tor West. So they hire guides who will take out visitors out on rafting tours and they can just take in the sites and hang out together. And it's supposed to be a great time. And that's exactly what he was doing in June of 2015. And he was so looking forward to this job. He actually wrote at the end of the previous year, like New Year's 2015. He said, this year I've gained confidence in every aspect of my life. I'm more driven to continue moving forward than ever before. I can't even begin to express the depth of my love for this world in writing.

But this is my thank you note to every one of you who have made this year what it was. So he was really looking forward to 2015. And he loved working for Tour West. And before the specific trip that I'll talk about today, he had been a guide on many previous trips. He'd actually done this same run that he was set to be doing numerous times before, and all of those trips were successful, one-off, without any hitch whatsoever. So this specific trip, they were heading out in June of 2015. It was an eight-day rafting trip going on, and he was going to be one of the guides coming along to lead the trip. Now, by June 2nd, the group was actually six days

into the trip, and they had just arrived at Pumpkin Spring, which have you guys seen Pumpkin Spring? No. It's so cool. It's adorable. It really is adorable. It really is adorable. It is at Mile Marker 213, and it's one of the main landmarks that people really love to visit on a trip to the Grand Canyon. It's this massive orangy rock formation that kind of just juts outside of the wall of the canyon. And it got its pumpkin name because it's kind of round, or it is round in shape. And it looks like a pumpkin was just tucked onto the side of the canyon. I just looked it up. It is cute.

It looks just like, it looks like a fall decoration that they were like, this fits nicely here. Like a giant just stuck a big giant pumpkin in the same. side of it was like, I like to duck away. It's like fall, bitches. And it's like that is totally cool. Yeah. Right? And it's even got like vertical streaks going up and down the sides like a real pumpkin wood. I love it. The only unfortunate thing about it is that you should not swim inside of it. People recommend that you actually don't go too close to it to like don't touch the water because there are super high levels of different metals like zinc, lead, copper and everybody's favorite arsenic. So don't go swimming.

I'm literally looking at a photo of a guy touching the water. Awesome. Yeah. I was looking at a photo of a guy like within the water and I was like, you should get out. Fully immersed within the water. That's not safe. You have lead poisoning now. You have all the poisonings now. You've got to look at pumpkin rock from afar. Just appreciate it from a distance. Yeah, an aerial distance even. Despite the cute name. Yeah. Yeah. It's misleading. And it probably looks better from afar too because it's like, oh, pumpkin. Take it on in, yeah. Can't really tell you. Like, maybe that is a pumpkin. Is it? I don't know. Let me get further from the toxic metals. So the group is heading out to see pumpkin rock. They make it there. They get their rafts all settled. They start

exploring around. Hopefully they did not jump in. They have a great time. And at about four in the afternoon, they decide that they're ready to keep going. And it's also getting later. So they're like, we're probably going to set up camp soon. So they're getting all their boats set up to take off. And while everybody was doing so, Morgan, who I was talking about earlier, and the actual leader of the trip, they were standing near a cliff just chatting. And Morgan said something to this lead guide about just taking the rest of the afternoon off. And as he was talking to the guide, one of the people that they were, like one of the clients, we'll call them, who was on the tour, had a question for this lead tour guide. So the tour guide turned around to answer him, had a really brief

conversation. And when he turned around, Morgan was gone. Like, totally gone. And he was like, well, we were just having a conversation. Like, where'd he go? That's weird. So he kind of peeks around a little bit. And he's like, I don't know, like, he must have just taken the rest of the afternoon off like he was saying. So we'll just keep going.

Like, he must have just headed out. That was not the case. The afternoon continued. And a couple of the people that were on the trip were like, hey, where's Morgan? But they were like, oh, he just took the rest of the day off. But if he had taken the rest of the day off, they expected him to at least come back for dinner. And he didn't arrive for dinner. The guest ate dinner.

They went swimming. and at this point they really actually are setting up camp. And somebody's like, where's Morgan? He should be back by now. So at this point, it was very clear that something was wrong and everybody was getting very antsy. And he hadn't arrived back by 726 that night. So one of the group members reported him missing called the police and reported him missing.

Morgan was described as a 22-year-old male, six feet tall, 175 pounds, blonde hair, blue eyes. He was last seen wearing a dark-colored astral personnel flotation device, a blue plaid long-sleeve shirt, a pair of chaco, I think, flip-flop sandals, a maroon baseball cap and brightly colored shorts. He also had a purple water bottle with him, and on the side of his calf, he has a cross tattoo. So that's what he looked like, that's what he was wearing, and those are some distinguishing characteristics. Now, immediately a massive search ensued. There were search and rescue teams, park rangers, co-workers, even people on that trip that were looking for Morgan. They were using binoculars to see if they could see anybody like lurking in a more secluded spot. They had helicopters,

boats, all kinds of means were used to search. And the search radius was about 15 miles all around where he was last seen. And then they even went as far as a place called Diamond Creek, which is about 12 miles west of Pumpkin Spring. And they could not find this guy anywhere. And it doesn't really make a lot of sense that he would just like, like, go missing or even just that he, like, fell into the water because he was wearing a flotation device. And he was, again, a very skilled outdoorsman. So if he had fallen into the river, you would think that the flotation device would have kept him afloat. And you would also think that he would have yelled out, like, ah, like, hey, I'm falling. Like, or anything. Help down here. Anything. But nobody.

A loud splash. Yeah, literally any noise. Nobody heard anything. And again, there's a lot of people on this trip. They didn't hear anything. So the searcher said at the time, quote, he definitely has the skills and ability to perform the job and be a person we have a high likelihood to find. But to this day, he's never been found. What? He just vanished? He just completely vanished without a trace. And the searchers now say that they assume he must have drowned and was carried by the strong currents because there's like whitewater rapids out there. But how did that happen? Yeah. Like nobody heard anything. When did he drown? wild. So strange. So they said like all the areas where the whitewater is, the rapids are, it's really

impossible to search those areas. So the search was scaled back after six full days. And now instead of an active search, it's a more limited search. Rangers and pilots in the area search while they're in that specific location, but they're not mandated to be searching constantly. So he literally just vanished without a trace. And when did this happen? This was in 2015. Oh, okay. So this is a while ago now. And as a way to remember Morgan and as a way to honor his love for the outdoors, his family actually worked with the Institute for Shipboard Education, and they set up the Morganheimer Memorial Scholarship Fund. So it does seem like they think he's like not going to return. And according to this semester at sea website, the scholarship quote, has the ability to offer a new beginning, fresh perspective,

and unparalleled educational experience to a future semester at sea Voyager. And it will be awarded annually to recipients who state a spirit of adventure, love of people, or desire to experience new cultures. And again, this missing person's investigation, it's still ongoing. So anybody with information on the location of Morganheimer should contact the National Park Service tip line at 928-638-7-840. My first thought is if he did drown and his body was carried away. I feel like the splash, the lack of a splash or anyone really seeing anything is kind of odd. But if he was to fall and maybe struck his head on something and was knocked unconscious, that may be a reason that he wasn't vocal.

And a lot of times, like people say, like, you think of people actively drowning from the movies of like splashing around, like, help, help, help, and being vocal. But it's some, most of the times it's not like that. It's like a silent thing. Yeah. So if he did have some sort of blunt force trauma that rendered him unconscious, he couldn't speak, and then he drowned and was carried away and was just never found. Which obviously doesn't make it any less horrific. Yeah.

But that's like my only, I'm like, that's the only logical thing I can think of. But it is just so. Then what about the flotation device? Yeah, that's the thing. I was wearing ones. It's that, yeah. That's the thing that's super weird. He has, like, there was, he was with a lot of people.

And that's also kind of when you were saying that it's like, oh, where's Morgan? It's like, oh, yeah, he's just away for the afternoon. It's like, it's like, it's like, as soon as one person says something, everyone just accepts it. And they're like, oh, yeah, he's fine. He's away for the afternoon. Right. Yeah. But he was also the guide.

So wouldn't it be kind of weird for him to just disappear for the whole afternoon? Yeah, there was other guides too. Like he was along as a guide and then there was a lead guide. But still. Yeah. I guess that maybe they like took turns leading or something like that. Yeah. Like they got their own breaks.

But it's still just like it's your own trip and you're gone for. I guess they, I mean, they did report it at 726 that night. Right. He wasn't gone for that long. It's just so weird. I don't know. But even like you said, he was in an active conversation with somebody. That's the weird thing is that he hadn't even technically gotten permission to take the rest of the afternoon off.

Yeah. Yeah. And then the guy just turns around. and he's gone. Yeah. And like no one saw him, like no one was like, oh yeah, I saw him go that way. Right. Like nobody said that.

That's weird. Super strange. It's like he literally just vanished into thin air. And I guess another possible explanation could be that, you know, he wandered off into the wilderness and like did take his afternoon off and ran into some trouble out there. But he couldn't handle, I guess. Wow. True. And I mean, as experience, like as an outdoor.

Of course, men or woman, you are person, it's just nature always wins. Yeah. There's always something that you can't prepare for. Yeah, we've, I mean, most of our stories that when people lose their lives, it's like, these are very experienced people. You hear that a lot. Yeah. You know, and so that's a total valid point, too.

It's like maybe he wasn't in the water at all. Right. Yeah. And he was just somewhere else and something happened. I almost lean more to that theory. just because of the flotation device. Yeah, yeah, because that is, that is very odd, because you would think that even if he did drown and was unconscious, his body would have been visible, I would think. I would think somewhere. Or like, I don't know, washed up somewhere,

like could have gotten caught somewhere. Like, you would think that he would have turned up. Because they immediately looked for him. So it's not like this was like weeks and weeks later that they were suddenly like, oh, we should look for him. And like, you know, that's when you're like, okay, you might not find him. I guess there was three hour, three and a half hours in between the time that he went missing in the time he was reported. So depending on how fast those rapids are going, he could have gotten caught up in them and really gone far. But still, again, why didn't he turn up? Yeah. Oh, that is so sad. That is so sad. There's so many possibilities too, because of course, in the Grand Canyon, when you're in like certain heat and stuff, you can always heat exhaustion,

confusion, like if he was disoriented for any reason or any, like there's just so many things that could happen. And we said earlier how huge the Grand Canyon is. Yeah. That there's just so many places that he could be that it's just, it's a really tragic story. You just feel so bad for his family because it's like they just don't have an answer as to what happened to their son or their brother or anything. That's literally what I was about to say was just those are, I think, the hardest because the outcome there is no closure and I mean I hate to even say that word because there is never I personally believe that there is no closure when you are the person that's losing a loved one yeah that there is no closure for you as far as like you know yeah getting

over quote unquote or moving forward from the left of loss of the loved one but like finality the very least knowing right where their remains are what happened. And having a place to visit them and remember them. And even knowing if they are alive or dead, like you assume they are not alive anymore in this case, but you're like, I don't know that because like we don't have a body. We've never seen a body. We don't have any kind of scene or anything like that.

And no matter what, you're going to hold out, I would probably end up holding out hope forever. Like until you gave me a body that told me, I don't think I could be able to accept completely that they were gone. Because it's almost like your own survival mode that you have to go into. And you would probably just have, it's better to imagine that he is still out there alive. Yeah. Yeah. Really tragic case. I hope that he does eventually get found, I would hope, alive, but even just so his family could have something, you know. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And I guess the kind of hopeful side of that is that it was a while ago, but it was still kind of recently where there still might be people like that,

that will hear this story or just will hear his story some way and be like, I was there that day. Like I never seeing him. You know, so there's still plenty of people that might, there might be someone out there that still has the information that could help. It has even one piece to the puzzle. Definitely. So call that phone number if you do and you're listening. Yeah.

Seriously. Yeah. Well, that we had a lot of ups and downs. We did. We did. We did. In the last hour and a half. That was a wild ride.

It was always a wild ride. Yeah. But thank you for coming on. It was it was great to catch up with you guys again. Thank you for sharing your stories. And I would say we have to do this again because I'm putting it out there in the future. I love that because I was going to say the same thing. I was like, we have to do it again. More. Two is not enough. Well, thank you so, so much for joining us, you guys. This is so much fun. It was great to record with you and hear the stories. Thanks for doing all the research that you did. And I guess for everyone else, we will see you next week or next episode whenever we're putting out another episode. So in the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you are back. Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale you'd like to share, send us an email at NPAD Stories at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at

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