National Park After Dark - Night of the Grizzlies: Glacier National Park (Part 2)

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

Welcome back Night of the Grizzlies - Part 2. Bring your medical supplies because this is a rescue mission to find and save the two missing girls who suffered horrific bear attacks. We'll conclude with lessons in bear safety and what you will need to do if you ever encounter one.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

They ran for two hours until they got to the trailhead at the road. There was a couple there who were about to hike the trail and saw how distraught this group of teenagers were, and ushered them into their car and drove them to the Park Service Station. Back in Granite Park Chalet, the rescue mission started around 2.45 a.m. for Julie, which was almost exactly two hours after the attack on the couple. Welcome to National Park After Dark. Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark, our first part two episode ever. And we left you on a bit of a cliffhanger last week. So just as a small little recap of what happened,

we were visiting Glacier National Park. We were visiting Granite Park, Chalet, and we are also visiting Trout Lake. And at Trout Lake, there was this suspicious bear that was emaciated that was causing havoc around Trout Lake. And at Granite Park Chalet, there was a innkeeper there, Tom Walden, who was actually feeding the bears every single night to put on a display for the visitors. And in the midst of all this happening, there were two bear attacks. One at Trout Lake attacked Michelle Coons and dragged her off in her sleeping bag up the hill. And at Granite Park Chalet, there was Roy Ducat who just came yelling up to some other campers that he had been attacked by a bear. And Julie, the girl he was with, was dragged off by the bear itself. Yeah, that's where you left us off.

So I know that was a quick refresher for everyone. If you need a more in-depth one, definitely go back and listen. If you haven't listened to part one, you need to before you start with this one. Yeah, the story will make absolutely no sense if you don't listen to part one. Okay. There's nothing to catch up on. I just need to hear this episode. I need to hear the second half of what happens.

Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks for coming back. I'm ready. All right. Let's just get into it then. Back in Granite Park, Shellay, the rescue mission started around 2.45 a.m. for Julie, which was almost exactly two hours after the attack on the couple.

The group of men included an armed ranger and guests and park employees gathered together to look for Julie. Among them was Dr. Lyndon and Tom Walden, the park employee who had been feeding the bears all summer long, and they began to hurry down the path in complete darkness. As they neared the campsite where the two teenagers were attacked, they came across Bearscat, so fresh that it was still steaming. nervous everyone in the group stopped but as they listened the woods were completely silent they started calling out for julie julie can you hear me where are you calls came from the group but there was no reply soon as they reached the area of roy and julie had been camping aiming their flashlights they looked around blood painted the ground there were shredded pieces of sleeping bags and some shoes on the ground a pooled of blood lay where Roy had been attacked, and further down was another pool of blood, where Julie had been. Here the group saw drag marks on the forest floor colored in blood. This way,

and then in the group shouted, the bear had dragged Julie downhill. They followed the drag marks for almost a football's length before the tracks ended suddenly. Julie, can you hear us? Julie! The group was shouting for her. Still no answer. This is when the group realized that it was very possible that Julie might be dead and the bear might be very close by guarding his kill. With coming nearer and nearer to the area that she could possibly be in, they knew that they might be met by a bear at any second, ready to attack all of them. But despite the sphere that they were having, they continued shouting for Julie. And about 20 feet down the hill, they heard a noise. There was a muted cry for help that could be heard.

down the hill from where they stood. Immediately every fear that they had about this bear was gone. Julie was alive. They had to go. They started running in that direction. The thought of a bear being there was completely out of their minds. So they ran as quickly as they could down towards the cry. And they found Julie.

Okay, so I'm just going to pause for a moment. This is the part where it is very gruesome. so I just want to forewarn everyone to be prepared that this part is hard to hear. And this description of Julie is what Jack Olson described in Night of the Grizzlies. Julie lay on her face in a hollow. Her body was ripped and torn and she was covered in blood. To the first observers, it looked impossible for her to be alive. She moved her lips and everyone could hear her say,

It hurts. Somehow she managed to get her blood-drenched blouse into a ball and slip it underneath her head for a pillow. She wore cut off blue jeans and there were puncture holes and long rips in the back of her pant legs. Her hair was matted with blood and dirt. Between the hand and the elbow of her right arm there appeared to be nothing but bone, and a foam of blood was oozing from both holes in her left and right thorax regions. Dr. Lyndon recognized these sucking wounds as an immediate, threat to the girl's life. One lung was already collapsed, and the punctures made it impossible

for her to breathe normally. Her facial and neck muscles were contorting and throbbing as they worked to replace the oxygen that was hissing out of the holes in her chest, faster than they could be replaced. Dr. Lyndon placed compresses on the holes and bandaged them as tightly as he could. Despite all the coagulated blood all over the scene, there was very little little. blood or fluid coming from the huge wounds on her body. Since the attack two hours prior, she had lost most of her blood and was bleeding out. It was a miracle that she was even still alive. That's what I was going to say when you first said they heard a small voice.

Like, I can't even believe that someone survived that. For two hours. For two hours. And the fear of, you know, like, is it coming back? Am I already dead? Like, what is going on? Is anyone ever going to find me? Am I about to get, like, eaten alive?

So many thoughts going through your head and also, at that point, your injuries, the extent of your injuries, you know you have to, that thought has to be, I'm about to die. So the holes on either side and the left and right of her thorax are those, we're guessing, puncture wounds from the cane. nine's of the bear. Like he just like, that's where he grabbed her. That's what I'm assuming. Yeah. Julie muttered out the words cold, cold.

And Dr. Lyndon immediately ripped off his own shirt and put it over her. Others in the group started covering her in their own jackets and shirts as well. Tom Walden, who had given his jacket to Julie, was now waiting in the corner for the doctor's next instructions. With all this craziness and of what had been happening, and seeing Julie, he had to step back for a moment, just feeling really nauseous. And as he observed from afar, he saw a man in the group holding something in his hand.

And as he looked at him and he watched what he was doing, he watched this man walk over to Julie and take a picture. In that moment, Tom felt like he needed to go over and punch him in the face. And that's coming from someone who may or may not be feeling guilty at this point. Maybe he was feeling a bit of that because instead of punching him in the face, he turned and threw up. An expected reaction. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I would. I'm nauseous right now and I feel like I have a pretty tough stomach.

We need something to carry her out of here on. Dr. Lyndon instructed to the group. Two men then ran as fast as they could to a nearby trail cabin 200 yards away and grabbed a twin-sized mattress that was inside and promptly brought it back. They then carried Julie back up to the chalet where Dr. Limpinski, who's the surgeon, was waiting for her. When they got her onto the operating table of the chalet, which is just a table, they don't have an operating room there. They're just working with what they have. I was going to say, quote unquote, operating table, aka the picnic table that has been cleared off. Exactly.

And set up as a working station. First, the doctor gave her an intramuscular shot for pain. He looked at her chest punctures and realized. realized that they were an inch and a half wide. There was no way to close these. It had been too long and she lost too much blood. He started covering the wounds that were allowing air out of her chest and causing her difficulties to breathe. She was on her very last reserves of respiration. Her breathing was labored and there was this awful sucking sound every time she tried to breathe that was coming through the hole in her chest cavity. The only undamaged part of Julie's

entire body was her face. There were gashes and cuts all over her body and she had injuries on her upper legs where there were whole sections of skin that had been chewed away. Both doctors and a newer Air Force doctor who happened to be there as well picked different jobs to do and they each worked on her. Dr. Limpinski tried to place an IV in her ankle and as much as he tried he could not find a vein that was not collapsed. She had lost too much blood. He cut open an air area on her wrist and finally found a vein that he was able to place an IV in and started a transfusion. He cut open her wrist. Yeah, to find a vein because she had lost so much blood that couldn't get to anything.

The description said that her skin was so white and all of her veins were so collapsed that it wasn't the typical you stick a needle and place a catheter. so he actually had to cut away her skin to find a viable vein. To access, yeah. Yeah. One of the visitors that happened to be visiting the Shillet at this time of the attack was a priest named Father Connolly. He sat down next to Julie and he started speaking quietly to her. He spoke of God's love and concern and Julie seemed to hear him and respond. The doctors are doing everything to take care of you and you know God will watch.

over you and take care of you." Very weakly, Julie responded, Yes, I know he will. Father Connolly looked down the table at Dr. Limpinski, and with his eyes and facial expression, he asked if she was going to live through this. With the slightest side-to-side movement of his head, he answered his question.

Father Connolly asked a woman who was there, who happened to be an RN, to go to the kitchen and grab her some water. She quickly went to the kitchen and grabbed some, and then she cautioned Father Connolly not to let her actually sip the water, but to only let her suck at a wet rag. He responded by telling her that the water was for another purpose. You know God loves you, he asked, but she was no longer able to speak. So he took her hand. God loves you.

Did you know that? She squeezed his hand with the lightest of pressure. He asked if she had been baptized. and she did not answer. In a soft voice, he told her that he would trace the sign of the cross on her forehead, and that this would serve as her baptism. He annoyeded her with water and traced the sign of the cross and whispered, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He then forgave her for any of her sins, and when he said the act of contrition, Julie seemed to be trying to follow along with her lips. Suddenly, her breathing became loud and shallow.

She hiccoughed a few times and then lay silent. It was 4.12 a.m. when she died. Is this the part in the book that you cried? Yeah. I thought that was so sad. Because that is so... What is another word for sad? Like, I know we just keep saying, that's sad, that's sad.

But it's just... It's horrific. Yeah, it just, it hits so different when you hear the moments that someone's dying and the comfort that someone is giving the person and that those moments. Like, those moments are so critical. And I'm sure that was such a comfort to her in that time. She probably knew that she was about to die and to have someone a complete stranger come in and be like, everything's going to be okay. It kind of reminds me of I read a story a few months ago about a EMT, and it was written from an EMT's perspective, and it was about death. And he and his experience with it in his career.

And he did say that, you know, a lot of people at the end of their life, especially in a tragedy, I mean, he's being dispatched to all these crazy scenes. And a lot of times they're panicked. Am I going to die? What's going on? Blah, blah, blah. And, you know, they're panicking. And then, like you said, when the priest kind of looked at the doctor, the doctor basically said, you know, without speaking no. In this EMT's story, he was saying it's in those moments when they are looking at you, looking at the help of, am I going to die?

And asking, am I going to die? and he learned over his career to be honest and to say yes. And it's then that they become almost peaceful and they can accept what's happening to them instead of being fed false hope. And it said that in his experience, it seemed to bring a lot of comfort to those people in their final moments. And what a amazing group of people. Just the chance of having an RN, a priest, a doctor, a surgeon, all at that time coming together to help you or to try and help you, like, you could have been in a group of people that were accountants and had no idea how to help you, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. It definitely just having those group of people, I mean, she had the best shot with when they found her with those group of people. if anyone could have saved her, if it was possible to save her, it would have been that group of people. Right. It was just after 8 a.m. when the group from Trout Lake made it to the Ranger's station. When they burst through the doors, they all started yelling at once of what had happened that night and how a bear had come into their camps. They were all yelling at the same time, making it difficult for the Ranger to understand what they were saying. The Ranger, Bert Gildart, they were speaking with, had been the same Ranger who had given them a

fire permit for the camping day prior, and he recognized that there was someone missing from their group. Wait. Where is the other girl that was with you yesterday? He asked. She's still up there. The bear dragged her away. And the ranger realized at that moment that this had been the second bear attack of that night. Oh, because he already knew what was going on at the other location. Well, if you remember, he was the one who responded to the radio call and he said 10-4, what do you need? Oh, yes. And then he transferred the call, okay. To the park service.

Yes, okay. There's just a lot of characters, a lot of stories. There's a lot. There's a lot going on. Okay. Okay. I need one of you to come back with me so I can see what happened and where to go. Maybe your friend is just waiting in a tree for us, he suggested.

She's not up in a tree. one of the boys of the group said, We'll see. He responded. He loaded his gun and pointed to the two younger boys to come with him, leaving Ray and Denise to head back home. They reached the camp around 10 a.m. Their camp was in disarray with sliced sleeping bags, gears torn and shredded,

and now their fire had been put out. They started walking around, calling out Michelle's name, and there was no answer. Paul led them to where he had last seen Michelle, but there was no evidence of her having ever been there. The bear dragged her up that way. Paul pointed up into the woods and up the hill. They worked their way up the bank and through the woods. The ranger led the group, and when he crossed the trail, his eye was caught by a patch of white. Without thinking, he picked the object up. It felt like a piece of human flesh. When he took a closer look, he realized he was holding an ear.

Oh, come on. So just as another trigger warning or not just warning. Just warning. Just another warning. We're about to get into some more gruesome stuff. Only a few feet further, they came across the remains of her sleeping bag, and trailing past it were feathers marking the direction of the bear's travels. The trail of feathers went directly over several down there.

trees with jagged branches sticking up. Soon they came across a blue jacket and flowers and a white blouse. All soaked in blood. Here she is, one of the boys in the group shouted. The ranger ran over to him and noticed the area looked to be somewhere that had been dug up, where a bear or a human would bury its food. There was grisly hair all around the bed at the forest floor. He reached the boy's side and looked down to see the remains.

of Michelle Coons. She was lying on her back, her body mutilated beyond recognition. He could hardly tell that she was even a female. Her stomach and abdomen were gone, and her hair was missing from her head. Michelle Coons was the second 19-year-old girl to lose her life to a bear attack that night. The news of these bear mallings traveled fast in the communities and reached the newspapers. Everyone visiting Glacier National Park was terrified, and it was apparent that they needed to find these two bears that killed and eliminate them. A group of four hunters were sent out to Granite Park Chalet. By now the guests of the chalet had been evacuated, and the only people left were the people who had been working inside the park. The hunters there asked Tom Walden about

the bears in the area, and Tom Walden responded and told them that he only knew of two of them that would come each night. There was a large silver tip, who was a bear who would arrive around 9 to 930, and then there was a smaller bear that would arrive later in the night. The hunters then informed Tom that both bears would need to be killed. That night, around 8.30, they baited the bears with a gallon glob of bread dough and half a pound of bacon. The hunters lay 50 feet away ready to shoot. It was dark outside. The only light was an orange glow from the wildfires off in the distance. A little after 10 p.m. A large silhouette walked into the garbage pile. It was the beautiful silver tip bear.

And I'm just going to say this. Another warning. It gets graphic. One, two, three, a hunter whispered. Followed by each hunter firing their weapons. The bear staggered and fell onto the ground. When it hit the ground, they set off another round of shots. About 15 minutes later, a snorting sound came from near the garbage pile.

When the bear reached the garbage pile, Tom Walden flashed a bright light onto the bear. The bear looked up for a moment, unfazed by the light, and the hunters released their weapons again. Now both bears laid dead beside each other. The men ran up to the bears. The silver tip was a female, about 350 pounds, and the smaller bear was also a female, but around 100 pounds less. They examined both of them looking for any signs of the killings. As they looked through their mouths and their paw, there was not so much of a solid. speck of blood on either of them.

They opened their stomachs to look for pieces of human hair or clothing, but all that was visible was half-digested leaves and berries. It turned out that neither of these bears were the ones that killed Julie. Oh, that's so upsetting. I understand why it needed to be done, but it still doesn't make it less tragic. Shortly after dawn the following day, they noticed that the garbage, pile that they had left out was gone. So the rangers asked Tom Walden if there were any other bears that frequented this area, and Tom replied that there wasn't. He did think about it, however,

and he said, you know, there was a bear in her cubs that we would see the tracks from frequently around this area, but we haven't seen any traces of this family in weeks. And at this news, the rangers decided they needed to see if this bear was coming at night, and they decided that following night that they were going to stake out the garbage area again. Although this time there was no garbage out for bears, they left the two bodies of the other bears there, and they waited. Around 10.30 p.m., they heard the woofing sound of a bear for only a few seconds, and then they could hear the squealing of cubs, and then the squealing turned into bawling. Then there were woofing grunts, like the ones the bears would make before they were about to fight. They shined their light on a sow with

cubs, and unlike the first two bears who were not afraid of light and people, these bears immediately took off into the darkness. And it was clear that these bears were different from the other ones, and they were not accustomed to human interaction. Shortly after midnight, they heard the woofing sounds again. Someone inside the chalet turned a light on in the kitchen, and just by the small glimmer of light, the bears took off again. Just before 1 a.m., the bears returned. They picked up the small outline of the grizzly, and they each fired their weapons. The mama grizzly thrashed wildly, bawling at the cubs. They sent out another round of shots, and the grizzly fell, flopping to the ground. It was exactly 48 hours and five minutes since the attack on Julie Helgelson. Another sound came from

the darkness of the night. It was the sound of the cubs running away. They were whimpering and bawling. One of the bullets had hit a cub, shooting off its jawbone. The hunters ran down to inspect the mama bear. She had bloodstains in her paws, and one of her paw pads were hanging loose, and they concluded that this must have been causing her constant pain. They then decided that she had to have been the bear, and when they opened up her stomach, all they found was half-digested bread dough. What is going on? What is going on? This is so, I don't even have the words for it because I'm starting to tear up.

Yeah. Because this is just like a really horrific loss of life all around. Humans, animals, everyone's losing their life. These two cubs just watched their mother get shot and killed in front of them. One of them is mortally injured. It's just, it's really sad. The worst part about I think this whole story and we'll get into it because I'm sure we'll both have a lot to say at the end of this. But the worst part is all of this could have been prevented.

It's so preventable. I mean, I know accidents happen and freak things happen. And there are isolated incidents, even now, however many years later, with everything that we know about encounters with wildlife and what to do and what not to do, what precautions to take, things still happen. But this type of situation, I mean, you discussed for 30 minutes about all the things that, all the misinformation. that was spread. Yeah. Yeah, there's just so many mistakes that were made here. So, and we'll get into it more because I have a little bit left of the story, but we'll get into all of that at the end. So Ranger Bert Gildart and Leonard Landa were sent out to Trout Lake to find the bear that had killed Michelle Coons. And when they went out there, the National Park Service had sent them out with the instructions to kill every single grizzly bear they came into contact with around Trout Lake. They were, arrive around 4 p.m. on August 14th. They saw their first sign of bear scat near the lake, and it was fresh. They poked holes in several cans of salmon and spread it around the beach. However, that night, they didn't see any bears, and they went to bed. Around 6 a.m. the following

morning, a grizzly appeared. Landis saw the bear about 20 feet away. He instructed Gildart to grab a gun, and at the sound of his voice, the bear slipped sideways into the brush. A few minutes later, the bear appeared again, closer to the cabin in which they had slept that night. Gildart took a step closer to the bear to get a better shooting range, and at this motion, the bear slipped from side again. Moments later, the bear appeared again in a violent motion, hauling itself closer and beginning to charge. With less than 20 feet between them, both men fired their weapons, and the bear went tumbling down the hill. When they ran after it and down the hill, they discovered that the bear was dead. When examining the bear, they realized it was an old sow,

with worn down molars and a very thin body. When the autopsy on these bears was performed, it was found that none of the four bears were rabbit. The blood from the claws of the Grannock Park bear who had cubs was tested, and it was found to be of non-human origin. Nor was there any other evidence that she had been the bear that killed Julie. The autopsy on the trout lake sow found six 65 hares that were found to be that of Michelle Coons. So that one that they shot and killed at Trout Lake was the bear responsible for Michelle's death. But the three bears that they shot, the three adult bears that they shot at the other location had no involvement. No involvement.

The news of the bear attacks came out quickly and news reports came out with lots of different reasons behind why this might have happened. And news reports were claiming that the lightning strikes and the lightning strikes and the weather was the cause of the bear's behavior. They claimed that it was the drought and the fires that caused this abnormal behavior. They were coming up with all these different reasons of why, after all these years, of no bear attacks, that suddenly this had happened. And when Glacier National Park finally released their own report, they failed to mention their role in the causes as well. They had ignored the regular nightly feedings that were going on at the grizzly bears, and they also ignored the fact that they had established a popular camping area that had

already been inhabited by many grizzlies for decades before that. So the real cause of these attacks were clear. People now were invading the bears' territory and were associating humans with food. When they are associating humans with food, they are willing to attack for their food sources. They were getting more acclimated to human interaction, which was unnatural and it was dangerous. And the reality of all of this was that this was always bound to happen. And with this news of what had happened to these bears, people actually started demanding that all of the grizzly bears in Glacier National Park were to be killed and that there were no reasons for grizzlies to be in the park.

Of course. Of course. Here we are five days before, or a day before, any of this news came out, and people are rushing to go see the bears. Mm-hmm. Oh, let me see them. I want to take a picture. I want to view them, feed them bacon, so they can come closer to me. And then as soon as this comes out, it's, uh, let's shoot them all. Like, this is just so infuriating. Yeah. And even one woman stated, she said, many people have lived their whole lives without seeing a bear and they have been perfectly fine. There's no reason for the tourist attraction of bears to be in the park.

it's not a tourist attraction. Bears lit. Oh, my God. Okay. You better finish your store. I can just see you getting fired up. I'm very close to the end and then we can get all fired up. So they demanded that all of them needed to be killed or the other option was they all needed to be forced into Canada. Some people said the national parks are here for people.

They're here for us to do what we want with them. And bears are just too dangerous to be here. And there actually became very real plans to exterminate every grizzly inside the park. But there was obviously a huge fight against this of biologists, conservationists, rangers, park officials all gathered together who were wildly against this thought and they fought against it. And they actually said, too, we can't force them out of their homes. Forcing these bears out of their home would lead to the species demise. And as it is that there were only five states in the entire United States that had grizzlies at all. and they were important for the flora and fauna of Glacier National Park.

All in all, Glacier National Park is wild. We are guests in a grizzly bear's home when we visit there, and we need to respect their area and their way of life. This kind of just brings me into, and maybe people have seen this. I know you and I have seen it. I shared it on our Instagram page where there is a woman taking pictures of these grizzlies, and this grizzly does a fake charge at her to warn her off. And it just reminds me that these are instances that you think your picture doesn't going to matter. You think that you're, you getting close and you taking these photos, a grizzly or not, a bison, whatever, everything we see in Yellowstone that goes on.

When you're doing this and you're habituating animals to yourself, you're creating this dynamic that is going to become dangerous. Even if it doesn't become dangerous with you, it could lead to what happened. in this story where there were three grizzly bears that were killed for no reason inside the park. And actually, another thing that happened, that grizzly bear, that cub that was shot in the jaw, National Park Services found it about a year later. And it was so emaciated because it couldn't get food the way that it was supposed to that they actually ended up killing the bear out of a mercy because it was suffering. There were four bears that were killed for absolutely no reason because, and it wasn't just this one instance, I'm not even saying that Julie, it doesn't even

sound like Julie and Roy were making bad decisions there besides camping in an area that they were allowed to camp in, but they disposed of their food properly. There were tons of other people there. It just turned out that when this is going on for a long time and each of us are contributing to this happening. So next time you're in Yellowstone and you got really close to a bison and you took a photo with it and a month later someone gets attacked by a bison, that was you. Like that was your contribution. It might seem harmless at the time. But when those things happen, these animals are put down. So you really need to keep that in mind. Do you need that Instagram photo? Is it worth it? Because you're killing that animal when you do that. But before we go off the deep end here,

Really quick. So was the bear that was responsible for Julie's killing ever found? Not that I read. No. I actually didn't read anything. And maybe it's something I should look more into. But as far as in the book, because my only resource, and I want to say some of this, I took word for word from the book because I just thought that they wrote it so well was

Night of the Grizzlies by Jack Olson. All the information I took for this story was from that. So I actually didn't look into if they ever did catch that bear specifically. So I'm unsure. But the moral of the story and the point of the story here is what we can learn about keeping this from happening in the future. And the tragedy that happened to those other bears, those innocent bears, because of what people did leading up to it. A lot of this, people were like, we didn't know grizzlies were dangerous. And I want to say this kind of goes towards black bears because right now people have that

whole thing in their mind where grizzlies are dangerous. Black bears aren't dangerous. And that is not true. Although black bears are less confrontational and are considered less dangerous, I would say, they're still dangerous. If they decide to attack you, you're not going to win. So. And can I just say very quickly because it's relevant?

but I just want to mention, and I'm sure a lot of people that listen are a part of National Park fan pages and groups on Facebook. And a lot of people who are not familiar with the outdoors go to these Facebook groups for advice, which I think is a great resource. You're coming to a group of people with vast experience in the outdoors, and you're looking for knowledge that you may not have. And someone posted, I'm headed to Shenandoah National Park for the first time in a couple weeks. I'm concerned about the bears. Should I bring bear spray? And I cannot tell you the amount of people who said no, who said, nope, you're fine. Bears are there, but they're not a big deal and they're going to run away from you.

Or, no, I've never seen a bear there. You're good. The amount of misinformation and the casual dismissal of a very real possibility that someone could confront, bears and Shenandoah are everywhere. Yeah, they're black bears, and yes, they're not as aggressive, but people have been killed by black bears before, people have been eaten by black bears before, and people have run into bad situations with them before. Not to say that it's something that should prohibit you from going outdoors and exploring

Chenandoah because that's also extreme. But don't rely on what other people are saying. This is a good example. Everyone said that about grizzly bears and glacier. And look what happened. At the end of the day, they're huge, wild animals. And you need to respect that you're in their home. You don't invade their territory.

You are respectful and be prepared because you could come across it. So I say absolutely bring bear spray. And this whole talk actually brings me into my next lesson of the day. We are going to have a lesson on bear safety. I love this for us. I don't think there's ever a bad time to have a refresher on what to do to handle a bear. Bear safety, bear safety. Our Bear Safety Course, National Park After Dark, Bear Safety Course, starts now.

Number one. Make your presence known while you are hiking. Make lots of noise and hiking groups while out in bear country. Number two, look out for signs of bears such as bear scat or tracks. Number three, avoid areas with berry patches and water sources because this is where they're going to be eating and drinking. Number four, hike midday. This is going to reduce your chance of a number one. encountering a bear as they are less active at this time.

Number five. When you're camping, keep food contained in a bear box, and if there is no bear box, food should be double bagged and hung at least 14 feet above the ground and 100 yards from your camping area. Number six. If you spot a bear in the distance, keep yourself at least a few hundred feet away and find an alternative route. If there is no alternative route, wait 20 to 30 minutes.

before continuing down the trail and make sure you make lots of noise so you do not spook the bear. Number seven, if you do have a close encounter with a bear, it is important that you are able to identify if it is a black or a brown bear. So go on to Google, type in black bears and brown bears, know the difference, and this is going to help you assess what to do next. If it's a black bear, stand your ground and assess the situation. Then slowly back away while keeping an eye on the bear and making sure that it is not following you. If it does start to follow you, make yourself as big as possible and start yelling. Now, if the bear continues to come towards you, pull out your bear spray, which you brought because you are well prepared after this episode,

and use it when the bear is about 20 to 30 feet away from you to deter it from moving any closer. And when you spray it before the bear is too close, you're also not going to be spraying the bear directly, so you're not going to be injuring the bear, but you're going to be creating this cloud of horribleness that the bear is not going to want to come through and it's going to deter the bear from moving closer to you. So if you can, spray it when they are farther away from you. Now, if it's a grizzly bear,

this is going to be different because you have to remember that grizzly bears are more aggressive. So for this, you need to stop and keep your eye on the bear and wait for its reaction. If the bear comes close to you, you can try to use your bear spray, but otherwise you should slowly back away while keeping your eye on the bear.

And I would suggest slowly backing away before using your bear spray, unless he's really coming towards you, spray your bear spray and move slowly away at the same time. And it is really important to know you should never run or turn your back on a grizzly bear because they will see you as prey and they are much faster than you, and they are going to chase you.

And catch you. Now, for our second part of our lesson, there are two types of attacks that are important to be able to recognize. And these types of attacks are the defensive attack or the predatory attack. Most bear attacks are defensive, and defensive attacks happen when a bear is caught off guard by a human. Signs of a defensive attack are hop charges, fake rushes towards you, and slugly slapping the ground, teeth clacking and huffing. If the bear does not attack after these motions,

back away slowly and do not turn your back. If the bear does make physical contact with you, it is best to play dead. The bear's goal in this attack is not to eat you but to eliminate the threat and when they know that there is no longer a threat, they will leave. While on the ground, you should either lay flat on your stomach with your fingers interlocked over your neck and spread your elbows and legs so it is harder for the bear to roll you over. Because remember, your most important organs are going to be on your front side. So you want to be on your stomach. You want to protect your vital organs.

Yes. When the bear does leave, do not move for 20 to 30 minutes because the bear will still be in the area and could re-attack you when you emerge. What an, can you imagine how, that's like an eternity? Yeah. I can't even put my, I mean, I've watched a lot of I survived stories that have to do with grizzly attacks and just even hearing the recounting of them and just they're like this seemed like forever. I wasn't sure if I was alive, dead, it was still around. If it had gone, if I should move, what I should do. I feel like if you're in the middle of this, your brain's going to be going everywhere.

But maybe you can think back to this moment and be like, okay, what am I supposed to? to do now and you should wait until the bear has clearly left the area or you're risking a second attack. If the attack is continuing and the bear seems like he's never going to leave, you need to fight back with any weapon possible. So if you have bear spray near you or with your person, you have to try and use it. You have to try and get to it. And if that is not possible, there are usually, if you're out in the woods, there's going to be rocks and sticks in the area, whatever you can use, and try to hit them in sensitive spots like their nose or their eyes, because if you get them in those areas,

it could deter them and get them to back off. Gouch their eyes out. Yeah, but this is a last stitch effort here. This is not something you should go straight into doing. And that is a defensive attack. In a predatory attack, this bear intends to eat you. There is nothing else that this bear has on its mind, and you need to do whatever it is now.

necessary to stop this bear. So if you have a gun, use it. If you have bear spray, use it. If you only have sticks and stones, aim for the most sensitive areas, and this is on their face, their nose, their eyes. And in a predatory attack, it is a matter of life and death. So you need to do everything possible to save your life. And these attacks, we talked about the defensive attacks. You have those little warning signs where they do the fake charges and the huffing. Predatory attacks, they're just coming for you. Yeah, there is no bluff charge involved. They're heading straight for you.

They only have one thing on their mind. They're not psyching you out. They're not testing you to see if you're going to back away or whatever. It's kind of like a grim situation for you. Yeah. Yeah. So you need to just fight for your life at that point. Now, hopefully the first steps I told you about avoiding a bear encounter will help and you

won't get into a close encounter with them. But if you do, you now have the tools to help you. in this situation. Please remember to carry bear spray when you are out in bear country, whether if black bear or brown bear, I personally always carry bear spray on me. It's mostly for people because I do a lot of solo hikes by myself, so I just feel more comfortable with bear spray. But make sure you have something that's going to help you, whether that's a gun, whether

that's bear spray, whatever you have. Bear bells are great. It is a great way to make noise, especially if you are out alone. but you need something to protect yourself. Bearbells are not going to protect you. Right. I mean, I'm looking at my pack right now, and it's equipped with bearbells and brand new bear spray since mine was deployed inside of a car by accident.

But another thing for anyone who's never used bear spray, when you purchase it, because hopefully this is one of the things you have that you hope you're never going to have to use. but you need to know how to use it in the event that you have to. So with a lot of bear spray purchases, it comes with a blank. And you can practice how to take the safety off. How it has a kick to it, you know, when you press the lever down or the handle down, it has a little kickback to it because it can spray up to 30 feet, which is the point. You don't want it to be, you know, two feet away from you when you're using the

So take the blank out practice with it. It has, it's not, you know, pepper spray like. It's not the real deal. It just has the material, has material in it that will simulate what it feels like to actually use. And it's important in the moment to know how to use it, similar to a gun. I mean, you don't want to have a gun and never know how to appropriately use it when you need it. So I think it's a great idea to become familiar with what you have. And put it on a holster. Don't keep it at the bottom of your backpack underneath your snacks and camera and two layers of jackets and your extra pair of shoes. Yeah, you need to be able to get to it quickly because things can happen and they can happen fast.

So just make sure that you are prepared for that. But that concludes our lesson of today on bear safety. We hope that you enjoyed this episode. I know that it was a really hard one and there were some hard parts, but I think that there's some really valuable lessons behind it in all wildlife and our contributions to bad things that can happen. So I think this was an important episode to focus on, especially as we are heading into bear season now in all the parks.

And there have been quite a few bear attacks already that I have seen on the news. And it's important for you all to be safe out there. It's important for you to have the tools to be able to stay safe out there. And be a respectful steward of nature and know that your actions have consequences. And that's pretty much the takeaway, I think. And I think it was a very, to be honest, this was probably my favorite episode that we've done because of the, not only the detail involved, but, and of course it was tragic to hear the loss of life that was associated with these stories, but it just has a resounding message that everyone can relate to

because we all do go out into nature and we've all received warnings and rules and regulations regarding wildlife. To wrap this up, we do have one last announcement that we didn't mention at the beginning of this, and that is, we have a new campfire story. You can join our Patreon, go on National Park After Dark, click on our link. You can find our Patreon there. If you like it, we already do have three episodes that are specific, only to Patreon, so you can only see them on there. So you can go on there or go on our website, NPADPodcast.com, and you can sign up for our Patreon there.

Awesome. So we'll see you next week. But in the meantime, enjoy the view. but watch you're back. Bye everyone. Bye guys. And the news reports were... Wait, I can hear jingling going on.

God, I would... I would change. That was next to me. I didn't think you could hear it. I can literally hear everything. I can't sit still for this long. Okay. We're not even a third of the way through this thing.

So you know. You're listening to this podcast. So I know. you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of

$946 by new customers surveyed. Who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.