National Park After Dark - No More Stolen Sisters: Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Awareness Month

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

In the summer of 2021, the world was captivated by the story of Gabby Petito, a young woman who went missing and was later found murdered in Wyoming. While her story is heartbreaking, the widespread media coverage concerning her case revealed something equally disturbing - the disproportionate attention to cases of missing young, conventionally attractive white women, compared to cases involving missing people of color, particularly those of Indigenous women. In honor of Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Awareness month we bring attention to two Indigenous women whose stories did not receive the same media attention as Gabby’s (and others like her), but are deserved of equal recognition and remembrance.For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesListen to Watch Her Cook on Apple and Spotify! Follow us on InstagramFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to the week’s partners!Hello Fresh: Use our link to get up to 10 FREE meals and a free item for life. Naked Wines:  To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to NakedWines.com/NPAD and use code NPAD for both the code AND PASSWORD.iRestore: Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code NPAD at https://www.irestore.com/NPAD!Fay Nutrition: Listeners of [National Park After Dark] can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting FayNutrition.com/NPAD. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Every once in a while, the story of a missing person's case goes viral on the internet and in the eye of the media. When it does, the nation becomes completely engrossed in their stories' twists and turns. We refresh our news feeds and social. media pages to stay in the loop. We check for updates or developments. We learn the minute details of the story, begin to truly care about the missing person, and worry for them as if they were a member of our own family or an integral part of our circle. Some people even take it upon themselves to try and jump in themselves and utilize their amateur sleuth skills to help the case along. People across the country learn the victim's name and talk about their case around dinner tables and

at coffee shops, with their closest friends, or with complete strangers. But we seldom stop to consider why we are hearing this story, or pause to consider whose stories we are not hearing. Underneath the true crime documentaries, social media content, and news stories, there is a broader, deeper, and more twisted story of race and power that determines whose stories are being paid attention to. Some people's lives are fought and searched for. But for others, it is hauntingly easy to disappear.

Welcome to National Park After Dark. Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I'm Cassie. And I'm Danielle. And Danielle has a true crime story for us today. I, not only do I have a true crime story, I have a story that I said I would, we both jointly said we would never do.

Yeah. And here we are. In a way, I'm still not doing it. I'm only doing it because it serves as a really important foundation for the other stories I want to share today. So, of course, if you read the title of this episode, then you know that Gabby Petito is involved in today's episode. But it's going to be in a way that hopefully is in a way that is refreshing and new and gives a different perspective. And just as a little bit of backstory, so Gabby's case happened in the summer of 2021 or unfolded at that time. And Cassie and I started National Park After Dark in January of 2021.

So this was like roughly six to eight months after our very first episode. And we received hundreds of requests from people either Instagram, email, etc, saying, like please cover Gabby's case. And at this point in time, it was unfolding. Like, it was still in the headlines. There was still a lot of question marks. And the case wasn't even close. It was just for reasons that we've gone over before. But basically, it was a hard no for us. And we understood why people were recommended. For sure. You know, I mean, it was when you like look at it at an outside perspective, it's exactly what we would potentially cover. But because it was so active and ongoing and there weren't any answers, we didn't want to

speculate or give information that may or may not have been true. But also we wanted to be respectful of the people who were actively looking for Gabby and had no idea what had happened to her. And we had no communication with the family. I still do not have communication with the family or anything like that. So we just wanted to be respectful in that there were so many. people covering it and saying like outlandish things and there was just so much it was really I've I really felt for the family at the time of like the amount of podcasts that were covering it and just giving a

really their own take and saying just like kind of pretty awful and disrespectful things that we just didn't want to jump into that as well yeah we didn't want to add to the mix um so for that reason we definitely was like a hard know and we've stuck to that until right now. And the reason that like I said, her story serves as this foundation for today's episode is because this month, May, if you're listening in real time, and specifically May 5th, which has already passed, but a couple weeks ago, is recognized across the United States and Canada as the National Day of Awareness for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls, Two-Spirit, and Indigenous peoples. And the reason that that is pertinent is because Gabby's story received an outpouring of

love, attention, like the lion's share of media attention. And as that was unfolding, a lot of other people kind of took that opportunity to say, okay, Gabby is deserving of all of this, but also look at all these other stories that have been ongoing for days, months, years, decades, and haven't had a fraction of the media attention that Gabby's is receiving in days. And largely, those were stories that had to do with people of color or indigenous women in particular. So today I'm going to share a bit about Gabby's story just because it's the foundation of this. context. And then we're going to go into some other stories that you may not have heard of

that revolve around indigenous women. So if you are online in the summer of 2021, especially as someone with an interest in the outdoor recreation world, but even if not, you probably heard of Gabby Petito's story. And like I said, this episode is not all about Gabby, but sharing a summary of what happened to her and especially how it was covered in the media is very, very important. That summer, she and her fiance, Brian Laundry, set out for a grand adventure, traveling across the country in their van and stopping at different national parks along the way. Gabby documented the whole thing on her social media, and through the lens of her Instagram and YouTube, life on the road for the couple seemed nothing short of idyllic. She posted photos of her and Brian

waiting through the narrows of Zion National Park, smiling next to Red Rock arches at Bryce Canyon National Park, cooking mini pizzas on their camping stove and sitting in hammocks while Brian strummed his guitar. They were scenes directly out of a lot of our dreams, I would think. And through, you know, your iPhone screen or your laptop screen, things looked really perfect. But behind the scenes and behind the lens, a much darker story was unfolding. About two months into their road trip, the police pulled over the couple in Moab. After someone saw Brian slap Gabby outside of Arches National Park and called 9.5. When they pulled them over, and this is all caught on body cam footage, Gabby was clearly distraught.

She was crying, visibly anxious, and the police took her aside to talk to her privately. She told them, quote, we've just been fighting all morning and he wouldn't let me in the car before. The police separated her and Brian for the night, but didn't make arrests on the grounds of lack of evidence to do so. On August 25th of 2021, Gabby's mom, Nicole, talked to her while she was in Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming. And Nicole, Gabby sounded like she was having fun and the conversation didn't raise any red flags in that moment. But a few days later, her mom got a very strange text from Gabby referring to her grandfather as Stan, which Gabby would never normally do. On August 30th, Gabby's family got a text from her saying, no service in Yosemite. Other than that, it was pretty

much radio silence. And Gabby's family couldn't get in touch with her no matter how hard they tried. Nicole, becoming increasingly worried, reached out to Brian and his family for an update on Gabby, but received no response. Now extremely concerned, Gabby's mother reported her daughter missing on September 11, 2021. The same day, she later learned, that Brian had returned home to Florida in the van that he shared with Gabby, but without her. Less than a week later, Brian's parents reported him missing. After he told them he was going for a hike at a local park and never came back. A massive nationwide search operation began now for both Gabby and for Brian.

Local law enforcement worked with the FBI. Major news outlets reported the developments of the case and hundreds of amateur sleuth across the internet, TikTok, and other social media platforms dedicated their lives to try and solve the case themselves. Podcasts were born from the case, like we mentioned, and others gave nearly daily updates either through their social media or by creating episodes entirely dedicated to this unfolding case, literally some of which were publishing daily episodes, just because there was such a sheer amount of news coverage on this case.

On September 19th, Gabby's remains were found in Grand Teton National Park and her cause of death was later determined to be strangulation. Brian Laundrie's remains were found on October 20th in Florida's Carleton Reserve, along with several items, including a notebook where he took responsibility for murdering Gabby. Per the medical examiner's office, the self-inflicted gun wound shot into the back of his head showed he died by suicide. The case came to a dramatic and somber end. Two young lives lost and a lifetime of grief and painful memories left in the wake for their loved ones. The search for Gabby and Brian was one of the nation's most extensive and widely covered. Hundreds of law enforcement

personnel and volunteers covered thousands of square miles across multiple states. A September 21st, 2021 Newsweek article published just days after Gabby's body was discovered and was still awaiting ID. Like, yes, it was kind of mentioned in the news and the consensus was this was Gabby. But still, still awaiting positive ID stated that TikTok users alone had searched Gabby Petito's hashtag over 268 million times. But Gabby and Brian's remains weren't the only ones found during the search. Six other bodies were found in the process of searching for them.

The bodies of people whose disappearance did not spark a similar nationwide search, who remained lost until a more quote-unquote newsworthy story sparked larger-scale search efforts, through which many people were found in the process. An unhoused man's body was found in a dumpster. in Alabama. Newly wed's Kailene Shulte and Crystal Turner's bodies were found in the LaSalle Mountains near Moab. A 46-year-old Texas man named Bob Lowry's body was found at the base of Teeton Pass in Wyoming and not too far away. The remains of a missing 26-year-old Texas man named Jared Hembrie were also found. A 30-year-old Korean American woman named Lauren Cho

disappeared in California's Yucca Valley months prior to Gabby's disappearance, and her remains were found in the California desert. And also, Jose Caldron's body was found on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina, all as a result of Gabby's case in one way or another. And while in some of the cases above, loved ones and concerned families had reported them missing or contacted authorities with concern of their whereabouts, and some of the cases did have some sort of investigation underway or some semblance of a search effort, the discovery of their remains and the reports about them were largely a byproduct of a nationwide search for one missing white woman. And this, unfortunately, is not a new story.

In 2004, late journalist Gwen Eiffel coined the term missing white woman syndrome to describe the way that stories like Gabby's, the stories of white, conventionally attractive, bubbly women, often make national headlines and have a grip on the psyche of the country. Because even though I'm using Gabby as an example, she is far from the first to exemplify this. Major production companies make documentaries about their disappearances, their cases receive extensive news coverage, and top-tier law enforcement resources are allocated to finding them and figuring out what happened to them. All the while, the stories of missing and murdered indigenous and people of color, and indigenous and people of color, women in particular, remain underreported and unsolved.

This is problematic, both in terms of how we view murder and suffering as entertainment. You know, the whole true crime thing as entertainment is a whole different discussion. And also who we deem worthy of being the main character in that quote unquote entertainment. True crime scholar Gene Marley told the New Yorker, quote, true crime seems to want to tell itself and us stories about white people, white danger. And in that way, I think it narrates a version of America that is mostly white. And because of this, we are shown just one sliver of a much larger picture. I wanted to share some quick stats on this larger issue just before we move on to the two stories I want to highlight.

because I think we can all relate to what I'm saying, you know, just like TLDR, you know, all of that aside, when you turn on the TV, whether it be to the news or the true crime documentary section of Netflix, who are you seeing overwhelmingly? Just off the bat. And you kind of understand what the picture I'm trying to paint. Mm-hmm. And I think you made a good point earlier where you said it's not. For example, you use Gabby.

It's not that she wasn't deserving of all this attention because she absolutely was. But so are all of these other people who are going missing and painting and bringing these to light. Yeah. It's not a, like, it's not a singular thing. It's not, if not her, somebody else. It's her and. Everyone else. You know, there's like, that's the problem.

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People of color and indigenous women are the victims of violence and murder far more frequently than white women. The First Nations' 2023 National Survey reported that, quote, 85% of Native American women report experiencing violence, including sexual assault, domestic violence, and rape over the course of their lifetime. 85%. 85%. Wow, that's horrific. And according to the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center, quote, On some reservations, native women face murder rates more than 10 times the national average. But despite these staggering numbers, the federal government does not have a national database for tribes to report women and girls missing or murdered. Because of this, many of the figures surrounding the number of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls are inaccurately low.

Local law enforcement response when Native women go missing is also part of the problem. Authorities often dismiss families' concerns, refuse to report the women, as missing or don't take the searches seriously telling families that they're missing women will probably just show back up in a couple days on their own. And that has been, just to make an obvious statement, that's happened in cases across the board, especially historically, I think collectively we're moving in the right direction, but just had to be said. But most of the time, the women and girls, obviously they don't come back on their own.

As Abigail, Egohawk, and Anita Luchese of the Urban Indian Health Institute wrote in a report, Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Disappear three times in Life, in the Media, and in the Data. And while I'm primarily focusing on women and girls and they remain the primary victims of violence and human trafficking amongst indigenous peoples, they are not alone. I just wanted to make that clear. people of all ages are victims of these crimes, including men, boys, infants, and the elderly. And in fact, according to native hope.org, 82% of indigenous men are victims of violence in their lifetimes. And native children are more likely to experience trauma and abuse than their non-native peers. So just want to cover bases there. And like you said, a couple moments ago,

Gabby's story is important. It's not that it isn't. But the point is, it's been told, well and thoroughly many times over. And there are many missing and murdered indigenous women and people of color that are not widely known. And their stories have been kind of lost. So for the rest of this episode, I want to create a space where we can remember two of these women and amplify their stories by sharing a bit about them. And to begin, we're going to start with Tina Fontaine.

Tina Fontaine was born in 1999 in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Her father, Eugene, was a member of the Sagine First Nation, and her mother, Valentina, was part of the bloodbane First Nation. Her mom was just a teenager when she had Tina, and her dad struggled with addiction and had some violent tendencies. That combination led to a pretty unstable home, and after a brief period of time living in foster care, Tina spent the rest of her childhood living with her great-aunt and great-uncle. Thelma and Joseph. Growing up, Tina was a pretty happy kid. She loved school and enjoyed spending time taking care of the younger kids in her community. And Thelma described her as the perfect little girl.

In 2011, however, things took a bit of a turn. Tina's dad, Eugene, was beaten to death. His gruesome and violent death had a profound impact on Tina, as it would anyone. Of course. But she didn't receive any therapy or substantial support to process the loss of her father. She began to withdraw and began missing school. She started getting into some physical altercations. She was doing some self-harm and she was reported missing three different times by her great-aunt and uncle.

Thelma reached out to child and family services for support and for help regarding Tina on multiple different occasions because she was worried about her safety, where she was going, this road that she was on. and she didn't feel equipped to manage this type of behavior on her own. So she needed some additional support. In 2014, Tina went to visit her mother who was living in Winnipeg. Thelma was a bit hesitant to let her go as she had concerns about Tina's mom's struggle with different things. She had some alcoholism that she was struggling with. She was also working as a sex worker or on and off working as a sex worker.

And she just was concerned about Tina stepping into that. environment, especially as a young teenager. Yeah, a young and questionable teenager who is also struggling with her own kind of making some bad decisions. So to put her in a situation or maybe her mom isn't the best influence, I could see the concern. But Tina's caseworkers cleared the visit. So she was permitted to go.

The trip went smoothly, no issues. So later that year in July, when she was invited to go again, Tina wanted to go and see her mom. Felma said okay and gave her a calling card that would allow her to call back home in case she wanted to come home early. And about 50 throwback. I know. Calling cards. I think the last time I had that, I had one of those was in, I want to say it was when I went to horse camp, sleep away horse camp. I went for two weeks in the summer. And I'm pretty sure that's the last time I had one. Yeah. I can't even Wow, it's just such a throwback. It's like at the same time around where you could, where I think you still can, but you would go to Walmart and get the prepaid phones and you could like, it was like that same time frame. And I don't, I must have been a teenager the last time I used to calling card. Early, like tween into teen because. Yeah, like probably like 14, like 13 or 14. Well, this was 2014. Okay, so I was 13. Yeah.

There it is. There it is. Okay. So Tina gets a calling card and about $50 from her grade on for the trip. Oh, wait. I can't do math. I was not 13. Oh, wait.

Yeah, you weren't 13. I was 23. Okay. I'm like, oh, great. Yeah. I just made myself 23 years old right now. You're trying to age in reverse. So things are looking at up.

My skincare routine is getting there. It's affecting your math now. Yeah. It actually goes to your brain. It changes your entire body chemistry when you use good skincare. Skin care. Yeah. Biologically, I'm 23.

Okay. So Tina gets this calling card. And $50 from her aunt. She goes on the trip. Her aunt sends her on her way, hoping desperately that things are going to go just like they did last time. And it's smooth sailing. But in Winnipeg, things quickly started to go wrong.

As stated in the report, quote, place where it feels like home, the story of Tina Fontaine, published by the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth, quote, Tina was picked up by Winnipeg Police Service on July 17th, 2014, not because she was missing and had been located, but because the WPS received a call that Tina was screaming for help as she was being dragged by an older man down the street by her arm. Wow. This man was her 18-year-old boyfriend, and at the time both he and Tina were drunk. So at the time of this incident, they were both intoxicated. Tina was separated from the man and placed in the care of child and family services in Winnipeg, who brought her to a short-term detox

center and then placed her in a downtown hotel. As the Manitoba advocates report states, quote, no planning, assessment, or support occurred at this time when both her risk and her drug use were escalating. The next day, on July 18th, she was discharged from their care and sent on her way. For a stretch of days following that discharge, child and family services didn't know where she was. They called her mother and her great-aunt, but neither of them had seen or heard from her. Tina eventually showed up at the Child and Family Services Agency on the 23rd and stayed at a temporary youth shelter for six days. And during that time, she missed her curfew on more than one occasion. And because that's a big no-no there, she got kicked out because the shelter wanted to give her bed to somebody else.

On July 31st, a missing person's report was filed for Tina by the Winnipeg Police Station, and over the course of the next week, Tina would show up at youth shelters briefly or call them asking for support and then disappear. Like they heard from her intermittently, but nothing ever concrete happened. A little over a week later, on August 8, 2014, the Winnipeg police pulled over a car for failing to use proper signals. The driver had been drinking and started to argue with the officer, and the officer glanced into the passenger seat and noticed a young girl was sitting there with him. And it was Tina. However, after checking her record, the police just let them both go, despite the fact that Tina was the subject of a missing person's report. And the driver was drinking.

Yes. And we don't, at this point, her mom's not in the picture. Her mom, so remember she was just going to visit her mom. So she's officially under the care of her great-aunt and uncle, Thelma and Joseph. Oh, I was picturing that she was still in the same town that her mom lived in. She is Winnipeg, right. Yeah. But the mom is struggling with her own stuff.

And she's not really looking over Tina at this point in time. Okay. But she's involved with because she was reported missing. And so both her great-on and uncle and the mom are on the lookout for her. she's officially filed as a missing person, even though she's like calling and kind of showing up here and there over these days, no one can really track her down and find out where she is. So when the police pulled her over and they've ran an opportunity. Right. But they just let her go. And reflecting back on this incident of them being pulled over, the Manitoba advocates report states, quote, the Winnipeg Police Service

members involved in this incident disregarded their training, acted in a way that contravened proper procedures and as a result were disciplined and are no longer officers. As a missing person and a child in care, WPS policy required officers to return Tina to her approved placement. So they were reprimanded eventually, but it gets dark. So this is really a moment that kind of harkens back to the disparities between Tina's case and Gabby's cases. Because anyone who has watched documentaries on Herkit Gabby's case has seen this body cam footage of the Moab incident will tell you that they mishandled that portion. Like you've seen that bottom camera footage, right?

Yeah. The first time I watched that footage, I was horrified. Yeah. Essentially what happens if you haven't seen that footage when they pull her over, the police separate them. I don't know if you're about to go into this, but the police separate them. And they're talking to Gabby and she is clearly a mess. She's clearly distraught while, and then they're talking to Brian Laundry and he is joking around.

He's laughing. He's like, oh, she just gets like this sometimes while Gabby's having a panic attack. And then they actually threatened to arrest Gabby because Brian has marks on him, even though a witness said that they saw him hitting her. So they like start threatening to throw her in jail and then she's getting visibly upset. And then instead of like calling anyone for them or I don't know, they just, they handled it so badly. And then they actually that night, they put Brian in a domestic abuse hotel, like known for domestic abuse victims. They put Brian there and they left her to sleep in her

van alone and find accommodations for herself while she was very clearly the victim. And I think it's really common for abusers to act all calm, cool, and collected while, the victim who is distraught because they're being abused comes off as like they're emotionally, like, can't handle whatever's happening. And then police believe the person who's composed. And time and time again, we know that that's not the not the right way to handle it. So, I mean, there's so many things that went wrong with that footage. And I remember when I watched it, I was just, I worked in domestic abuse for a while, especially after college. And I just, as soon as I saw it, I was like, this is, this is horrend. the way that they dealt with this.

Yeah. And so for anyone who saw it with their own eyes or just hearing you describe it, clearly things went wrong. They didn't handle it well. There's a lot of things that could have been done differently. But the point I'm trying to make is that if this had been Gabby in this situation and she's declared missing, like in place of Tina, the cops wouldn't have missed the fact that it was Gabby Petito. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, but for Tina, they were just like, okay. I like, see ya. And they, like, they would have immediately recognized her. Well, of course. She had international, I mean, she had national headlines. Everyone was talking about it. Right. No way. But Tina's case wasn't publicized. Even though she was declared a missing person, her disappearance didn't make headlines. And not only did the officers not go out of their way to find her, they failed to practice the basic protocols to protect her. As Tina's great aunt later said, her name should have come up as a red flag. she was a missing girl, and instead they just let her go. And so the system failed Tina again. When she should have been identified and brought to a safe environment, they let her leave to a dangerous fate. Mere hours later, she was found unconscious in an alley that was known to be

the site of frequent sexual assault near the University of Winnipeg. Tina was taken to a hospital where she informed paramedics that she had been hanging out with a guy, that they had been drinking, using cannabis and other drugs. And at the hospital, she told her, told her child and family services worker that she had been spending time with an older man named Raymond Cormier. From there, child and family services informed the police that Tina had been found, and then from there, her missing person's report was closed. Like, okay, we located her. Shut the door on that. On August 9th, Tina didn't show up to her child and family services placement, and another missing person's report was filed. The police issued a citywide order.

for all police officers to keep an eye out for her, same as before. Tina Fontaine was last seen walking down the street on August 9th with a man as part an anonymous text tip to the police. As the Manitoba Advocate Report explains, quote, other than issuing a Bolo on August 9th, 2014, WPS file information did not indicate what steps, if any, were being taken by police to locate Tina over that same weekend. The search for Tina was uncoordinated.

Family members were contacted, but they, of course, didn't know anything because Tina was out and about. They had very little or sporadic contact with her. An organization called Street Reach, who were trying to help find Tina, described her case as a jurisdictional nightmare with a bunch of different agencies playing hot potato. It's basically like, oh, it's your case. No, it's yours. No one wants to take it. Take responsibility or kind of take the lead. So as a bottom line, there were numerous concerns documented in the CFS system that the child was being exploited.

Ten days later, Tina's body was found, wrapped in a blanket, weighed down with rocks in the Red River in Winnipeg, and to this day, the exact cause of her death remains unknown. In December of 2015, the Winnipeg police charged 53-year-old Raymond Cormier with second-degree murder in Tina's case. And remember Raymond's the one that she said she was hanging out with before. Raymond pleaded not guilty. And during his trial in January of 2018, a witness named Tyrell Morrison explained how the last time he saw Tina was she was arguing with Raymond because Raymond had sold the frame of her bicycle for drugs.

So they were in an argument about this. There was no concrete physical evidence or eyewitnesses to Tina's murder. So most of the case rested on statements that Raymond actually made when he was being secretly recorded during a police sting operation. Oh, okay. Raymond and his defense provided no evidence to try and prove his innocence, and yet he was acquitted of the crime and was allowed to walk free. The primary reason for this was that there was nothing concrete to prove that Raymond had

murdered Tina. Very little physical evidence. Obviously, they had statements from Tina from before. They knew there was some volatile relations between the two, and then there was Tyrell's statements about like he saw them kind of going at it, but there was no concrete physical evidence to tie him. Again, this is kind of a moment where even if there was like a fraction of the effort put into this case, law enforcement resources and urgency, as was used in, again, not to pick on it,

but Gabby's case, if there was any sort of chance of evidence being found or able to link Raymond to this case. Like if there was maybe a little more effort, resources, time put into it, maybe Raymond could have been found guilty or somebody else. Like not saying it's this guy. Like just saying that, oh, well, it wasn't him. All right. But his defense gave no evidence that it wasn't him. Right. And then also, I'm just curious, is he a white man? I'm just curious if that swayed the verdict. He is. Yeah. Yeah. So, An indigenous woman dies and then a white man is not convicted. Yeah.

Who has ties to her is older than her, was seen arguing. There's another instance where she was hospitalized after a confrontation with this man. You know, it's just, I mean, I would bet almost anything it was him. And also, all of the instances that she was reaching out, either her or her family on her behalf were reaching out for help and assistance. and it's just, it's like that term, like she slipped through the cracks. Yeah, and I just have to wonder when she was brought to the hospital after she was assaulted and unconscious, they just let her go to her own devices and didn't have her family come get her. She's missing.

Her family's looking for her. Like, they didn't set her up with transportation to get home. They didn't bring her family there and discharge her once her family got there. You know, it's just like, why were they like, oh, she never showed up at her, at her approved housing? Right. Like, why wasn't she brought to her approved housing? Right. Why was she expected to show up after she's been a missing person?

And she, how old was she at the time? She was 14. She's 14. I thought she was like 17 or 18 during this. She's 14 years old. And you're discharging a 14-year-old girl from the hospital. And you're saying, like, oh. Oh, yeah, make sure you go home.

Soon. Yeah. A 14-year-old girl with, and how old was Raymond? Because I know you said he was older. You're not going to like it. How old is he? He was 62. Shut up.

He's 62 years old, drunk driving with a 14-year-old girl who is not his daughter in the car and police pull him over. Well, I don't know if it was him in that car. Oh, okay. It wasn't him. It was an older. I was just... Worse... Yes, she was with an older man in the car.

But Raymond was the one, this 62-year-old man, was the one that Tyrell saw them argue. Remember the argument? And he sold her bike for drugs. And all of that. Why is a 62-year-old man hanging out with a 14-year-old girl, first off, arrested immediately? Yeah, I know. This isn't even... This isn't just falling through the cracks.

This is straight up neglect. of an indigenous girl. You know, she's 14. Okay, wait. Maybe he was 56. 52. He was 52 at the time. Sorry.

I have so many things of different times, like, going on with, like, as this case is unfolding. And, like, yeah, he was, either way, he was decades older than her. He was 52 at the time of this happening. Yes. Could have been her grandfather age. Yeah. As a 14-year-old. Yeah, that is, that's just neglect.

And to have a 14-year-old missing who's popping up here and there in a scene. It's like, no, you see her and you call in child services. You bring her family in. If a 14-year-old is admitted into the hospital, her family is there before she's discharged. Like, she needs consent to be discharged from the hospital. She's 14. That's all of the, like, the ages change everything so much. Because I, like, for some reason I was picturing her as, like, 18 or she.

something but no or a teen i mean she's still under the care of child services she's a child yeah yeah yeah that's awful so as we said just to uh make that clear raymond has walked free from this indigenous leaders in manitoba spoke out against the result of the trial over a thousand people gathered in winnipeg the day after raymond was acquitted to march in memory of tina and to demand justice many people were outraged at all the unthinkable ways the system had failed Tina and others like her every step of the way, specifically within the child and family services system and within law enforcement when police let her walk off when she was a registered missing person in their own database. And of course, there was outrage regarding the justice system

when it let Raymond Cormier walk free. As Sheila North said, quote, we as a nation need to do better for our young people. We all failed her. The mishandling of Tina's case sparked deep anger and outrage across Canada and ultimately led to change. Child and family services was forced to reform several of their practices to ensure the increased safety of the children in their care, including no longer placing children in hotels as they did with Tina. The outrage over the handling of Tina's case also led to the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls in September of 2016. The inquiry investigated and reported on the systemic causes of all forms of violence against indigenous women and girls, including sexual violence, and included testimonials

from over 1,400 family members and survivors, as well as 83 experts and officials. And though this work is an important step towards meaningful change, the problem is far from solved. Tina Fontaine died in 2014, and the next story that we're going to discuss happened three years later, and that is the story of Savannah LaFontaine Gray Wind. And this one as a heads up, like Tina's is horrifying, but this one is really graphic and brutal. And for any person who is really into true crime and kind of is in the true crime world, maybe deeper than you and I, you may have heard this one before just because it is so unbelievable. So you know what to expect. But for those who don't know, please listen with care, especially if you are an.

expecting mother. Got it. In August of 2017, Savannah was 22 years old and preparing to give birth to her first child. Savannah was a member of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe and lived with her family in Fargo, North Dakota. She had worked hard to begin her career

and got a job as a nurse's aide at a senior living facility. And besides her career, she had another dream, and that was of starting a family of her own. Savannah had met her boyfriend, Ashton, back when she was 15 years old and now seven years later they were about to move in together. Things were coming together

in Savannah's life. Multiple dreams were starting to come true and she was stepping into womanhood in this next chapter of her life. Savannah's due date was September 20th, which was a little over a month away from when this is taking place. And she and her boyfriend Ashton, as many expecting couples do, had a name to picked out for their little one, Hazley Joe. Savannah was excited to bring a baby into the world, but confided in her friend that she was terrified of the pain of giving birth. I think that's very relatable. Relatable girlfriend, for sure. Yeah.

Like, I want to have a baby, but I don't actually want to have a baby. Yeah, like I physically don't. I want to black that out, which I think happens, right? For sure. There's like a physiological region. Your body just forgets eventually. But in the moment, you go through it. I personally don't know, but I know many people who have gone through it.

And I mean, I think it's a combination of a very beautiful experience and also scary and unknown. And you just don't know how your body is going to handle it until you do it. Yeah. I'm currently, as we're recording this, I'm on a baby call right now because my best friend, Nataya, is a week past her due date and she didn't want to be induced. So she's giving herself one more week that was all cleared and everything by all her doctors and her doula and stuff like that. But she wants me in the delivery room, which is such an honor. It's such an honor. You'll get to see it firsthand. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. So yeah, I'll be able to ask and we'll be like, you know, how is it? Like, you'll have a mic up to her.

Yeah. Yeah. Bestied so hard that I'm in the delivery room. But anyway, yeah. So on August 19th, Savannah was home to just about one month prior to her due date. She was at home on her day off from work and she had just ordered a pizza from her favorite spot before she had to drive her younger siblings to work. Meanwhile, her mom bustled around the apartment, getting ready for Savannah's baby shower, which was planned for the following day. So all baby things are coming together here. While Savannah was waiting for her pizza to arrive, her upstairs neighbor, Brooke Cruz,

came to the apartment door. Brooke was a 38-year-old woman who lived two floors above the gray winds with a 32-year-old man named William Hone. Brooke was unemployed, and William worked as a roofer. And the couple rarely interacted with the gray winds, except for occasional friendly conversations with Savannah's mom when they were at the dollar store where she worked or just like passing by the halls of the apartment complex, like just standard neighbor things. They weren't unfriendly with one another, but,

neighborly without, I don't know, like being besties. When Savannah answered the door, Brooke told her that she was working on sewing a dress and needed somebody to model it. So she asked if Savannah could help her. She said it wouldn't take long and she would even pay her $20 for her time in doing so. So Savannah agreed. She texted her mom that she had ordered a pizza that should arrive soon. So just like basically, I'm just hopping up there real quick to help. But if it comes in the meantime, just be on the lookout. and she also sent a quick text to Ashton, her boyfriend. She followed Brooke up the stairs to her apartment to help her neighbor. When an hour passed, Savannah's mom realized that her daughter had not come back from the neighbors

yet, which struck her as odd, especially given her obligation to drive her siblings to work that same afternoon. She sent Savannah's younger brother Casey up to check on her and he climbs up the stairs to Brooke's apartment, knocks in the door, and nobody answers. He pressed his ear to the door and thought he heard that. the sounds of a sewing machine inside. And just a few minutes after Casey, who had returned back, reported that no one answered the door, Savannah's dad, Joe, went up to check on her himself.

He knocked on the door much more forcefully and insistent now. But at first, no one answers. Then finally, Brooke comes to the door, creeks it open, and explains that they were still working on the sewing project, and Savannah would be back momentarily. Joe goes back downstairs, but more and more time passed. and Savannah still hadn't come home. Norberta, who is Savannah's mom, couldn't ignore her rising anxiety anymore. Something was wrong, and she knew it.

She climbed the stairs up to Brooke's apartment herself and knocked. Brooke answered the door once again and told Norberta that not long after Joe had come looking for her, that Savannah had actually left the apartment on her own and she had no idea where she went. She thought she was going back downstairs to her family's apartment, but she couldn't say. Norberto was confused. Brooks' explanation didn't make any sense. Savannah's car was in the parking lot. Her wallet was still in the apartment.

She had just ordered pizza. She was driving our siblings to work. She was also extremely pregnant. Where would she go without telling anyone at a moment's notice? And she wasn't one for just kind of like walking off or taking a walk or doing something without alerting people. I mean, she texted her mom and her boyfriend that she was going up to the. the apartment to help on that sewing project, let alone just going off on her own without saying anything to anybody. Right. So her mom calls and texts Savannah several times, but no matter how many

times she did so, she couldn't reach her. Just after 4 p.m., Norberta called the police and reported that Savannah was missing. So she hops on this right away. 30 minutes later, an officer named, 30 minutes later, an officer named Sam Bowman heard the dispatch and responded to the apartment building. Norberta explained in more detail what was wrong, explained the situation, and after taking her statements, Officer Bowman went up to Brooke and Williams' apartment. He asked if he could go inside and look around, and they welcomed him in without any sort of hesitation. The officer swept his eyes around their apartment. Everything appeared tidy except for a sewing project on the couch. And by this point, Brooke's husband, William, was now at home and he,

he was playing a video game on the bed and drinking a beer. Officer Bowman didn't do much of an investigation, but wandered through the rooms casually, and after about 20 minutes, determined that everything appeared normal, and he left. He went back down to the Greywind's apartment and told them that everything seemed fine. Savannah's parents protested insisting that this was not normal for their daughter, and they needed answers, and at least Brooke was the last person known to have contact with her. And to see her, and like, she was allegedly in that apartment. Helping her.

Directly. Helping her. Right. The officer dismissed their worries and asked them some questions himself. Like, could she have gone to stay with any relatives? Did they get into any arguments? Could she have been possibly been drinking or doing drugs? Basically trying to find any sort of reason or explanation for her disappearance. But in response to every question, Norberto was certain.

No. None of this explained why her daughter was just now simply gone. Norberta called Officer Bowman again later that. day, but he had no updates for her. In the book, searching for Savannah, the murder of one Native American woman and the violence against many, author Mona Gable describes Norberda's phone call with Officer Bowman that night saying, quote, he mentioned the report, but he didn't have any fresh information. Nothing to hint that Savannah was in danger. Just because she didn't follow her schedule that day, he told Norberta didn't mean anything was wrong. I, I feel like that's something that

we hear in a lot of cases all the time in true crime once we've covered or ones we've just heard. And I think it's so frustrating that the people who are closest to these people aren't taken seriously. It's like, well, she could have veered off from her normal plan. And it's like, yeah, at surface level, maybe, but I know her. Like, I know them. I am around them all the time. I speak to them every day. This is not normal. Like, please believe me and don't just make assumptions. Like, that's normal for them to like go do something different. It's like, no, it's not actually. And I'm telling you that. And also it's about hearing the obvious stated that doesn't make sense. Like you don't think that the family members have considered for a

half a second, it's possible this happened, but that's not the reason. Like, you don't need to hear that. And it's just, it's so frustrating because it does happen so often. And because of that, time lapses, really crucial time, that probably could have made a big difference in a lot of different cases. And this exactly mirrors what we touched upon earlier on in the episode. Family members commonly report law enforcement are dismissing their concerns, especially when indigenous women and girls go missing. The way that Officer Bowman handled the case, assuming that Brooke and William were harmless and Savannah's parents were being almost hysterical about it is a textbook example of the ways that indigenous women and girls fall through the cracks in the system

that are supposed to protect them. What's more is that local law enforcement was familiar with Brooke and William. The couple fought a lot and once there was a protection order filed after William physically assaulted Brooke. There was also a warrant out for William's arrest for failing to pay an overdue fine. And they're just letting him play video games and drink a beer while they're searching his apartment, even though there's a warrant for his arrest. Yeah. Right. And maybe those two things would have been like these light bulb moments of, hey, maybe we should pay a little bit closer attention to these people. Yeah.

We already know one of them is violent. Right. And someone is saying who we should be arresting. And now we have a woman who is last seen with this violent person who the family is saying is missing. Right. But of course, that wasn't taken into account. And there's more about Brooke and William that law enforcement didn't know, but is important to the story. Brooke had seven kids with seven different fathers, but she didn't have relationships with any of them at that point in time.

William had two kids with two different mothers and had spent time in prison for fracturing his four-month-old son's skull. Brooke and William met at a bus stop in 2012 and started dating about two years later. Brooke knew that William wanted them to start a family of their own, and he had his heart. set on having a baby together. Like, he didn't want to, he had no interest in blending. They're already preexisting family or families. And they don't have, it sounds like they don't really have custody of their kids. No, they're not in contact with their other children.

But yeah, they're dating. Okay. He wants a child with Brooke. To start again. Yeah. Nine children, tenths the winter. Yeah, I guess. Brooke had a tubal ligation, which is a surgical procedure that prevents pregnancy by blocking the

Flopian tubes and was not capable of getting pregnant. But in early 2017, she found out that William was cheating on her. And in an effort to win him back, she lied and told him that she had the procedure reversed and that she was pregnant. For months, Brooke played along with this lie. She showed William's sonograms and heartbeat scans that she had found. online, claiming that they belonged to their baby. By August of 2017, though, William started to catch on and the jig was up, essentially. He found out that she was lying about the entire thing. He was angry. And he demanded that Brooke find a way to get them a child of their own. As Brooke would later explain, she felt that after William demanded she bring a baby

into their family somehow in some way, she felt that she better have a baby and it didn't matter how she got it. Hours after Savannah went missing after meeting with Brooke, 25 of Savannah's family and friends, including her boyfriend Ashton, who had rushed into town when he heard Savannah was missing, gathered outside of the apartment building. They were taking turns going up to Brooke

and Williams' apartment, banging on the door, and demanding answers to where Savannah was. It's kind of like law enforcement be damned. Like, we did what we could with them. They're clearly not helping in the way we need. This is urgent. We know you know something. and we're not going to leave you alone.

Yeah, good for them. Someone called in a disturbance, and the police showed up to the apartment for the second time that day. They went up to Brooke and Williams apartment, but this time they weren't met with the same welcoming and casual attitude from the couple. They could hear something heavy being moved inside the apartment, and when the door opened, they saw it was a couch that they had been using to block their door.

Brooke angrily remarked, what do I have to do to show you, I don't know where that girl is? The officer asked Brooke and William some questions, looked around again, and once again found nothing suspicious. And still didn't arrest him. It's yes, and that. Perfect. The next day, the Grey Wins again contacted the police and this time with information of their own.

Coincidentally, which we don't believe in, coincidences. But a relative of the Grey Wins used to live in the exact apartment that Brooke and William were currently living in. And that relative told the gray winds about a faulty panel in the bathroom behind the bathtub. And that relative expressed that the space behind that faulty panel was definitely big enough to hide a person in. So for the third time, the police went back to Brooks apartment, armed with this information. They checked behind the panel and everyone like collectively held their breath. But that space ended up being empty. On August 22nd, the police began to take the search for Savannah seriously.

they began to call in outside help and ramped up their efforts. The Fargo Fire Department patrolled the nearby Red River. U.S. border and custom protection sent helicopters to sweep the area from above, and police led the search on the ground, and now the FBI was involved. Despite all of their search efforts, they came back empty-handed. But that same night, William made a careless mistake that would make this search much easier. William and Brooke were backing out of a Walmart parking lot when they hit another car. William got out to speak to the other driver apologizing as he approached. After a brief exchange, he told the

other driver to just basically, hold on, I'm going to go into my car and get my information. We can swap stuff and I'll be right back. And as he is going to get his insurance information, he actually just launches back into the car, runs back into the car, gets in, and speeds off. The other driver managed to write down his license plate number and filed a report. And later that same, night, he was brought into the Cass County Jail in Fargo. And because of this hit and run, the police looked into both the vehicle and what the couple had purchased at Walmart. Like, what were you doing there? And that purchase finally sounded the alarm bells because the couple had just bought a very large quantity of newborn diapers. Oh. William's boss bailed him out that night. But the next day at work,

William did something even more incriminating. He casually told one of his co-workers that he and Brooke just had a newborn baby at home. If the alarm bells were ringing before, they were loud as hell now. The police had enough evidence against Brooke and William to obtain a search warrant for their apartment and on August 24th, they broke into the apartment unannounced. What they found was a chilling scene. Brooke was in her apartment taking care of a newborn baby that was not hers. Brooke was arrested and immediately started to try and explain away everything.

She claimed Savannah had come to her and asked for help, stating that Savannah didn't want to raise her own child. She told the police that Savannah had asked her to induce labor and take the baby off of her hands. Why would she ask this random girl to induce labor? In her apartment. In her apartment. Yeah. So, of course, her stories are just that. their stories. They're completely made up. And the police knew she lacked any credibility.

I would hope so. But meanwhile, the police had lost credibility with the gray winds. Because how had this apartment been searched twice and the baby had been there the entire time? Infuriated, Savannah's family called on their community and tribes from across the Great Plains traveled to Fargo to help search for Savannah. But it wasn't the gray winds or their community, nor the police or the fire department that found Savannah. It was two unsuspecting kayakers. On August 27th, two female kayakers were out on the Red River when they found a large object wrapped in plastic. They called the police who identified the object as Savannah's body. It was William who ultimately came forward with a much darker confession that Brooke had offered up. As he told police, when he came home

that day at 2.30 in the afternoon, he heard a baby crying in the bathroom. There, he found Brooke cradling the baby while Savannah lay on the ground bleeding out. When William asked Brooke if Savannah was alive, Brooke responded seemingly unfazed that she didn't know. Her focus was on this newborn baby that she now held proudly, up for William to see, saying, quote, this is our baby, this is our family. William grabbed a rope and strangled Savannah to ensure that she was dead.

And immediately after the couple cleaned up the blood and put Savannah's body in the bathroom closet. We don't know if it's that panel or not. He just said bathroom closet. He just said bathroom closet. And the officer didn't open any doors or anything. He just walked around. Yeah, initially.

Brooke later admitted to this version of events, confessing that she pushed Savannah, who hit her head on the bathroom sink and fell to the ground. Brooke then grabbed, oh my God, okay, this is just so graphic, and I already told you that. But Brooke then grabbed a utility knife and began cutting into. to Savannah's stomach. She removed the baby from Savannah's body in a lethal and unthinkably painful, botched C-section, and left her to bleed out on the floor, unsure if she was alive or dead, and completely unconcerned with her suffering. A couple of days later, Brooke and William put Savannah's body in a dresser in order to move it out of the building unnoticed.

Brooke and William were charged with conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and providing false information to police. Brooke pled guilty to all three charges and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. William pled innocent. He was found not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, but was found guilty of conspiracy to commit kidnapping and providing false information to police. And he was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole, though he later had

his sentence shortened to 20 years. What is this conspiracy to? They did commit. murder and they did kidnap a child. Yeah. What is this? I don't know. I conspiracy too.

It happened. I know. And I know that like this is bad for the brand, but I know we're listed as true crime. And we started this podcast out as true crime. But the reason, one of the many reasons we don't do a ton of true crime content is because I legitimately do not understand the legal system. And it's like, I know there's a reason for. for this. And I understand that there are different categorizations and what constitutes certain things or not. But like, like you just said, what do you mean? Like the obvious thing seems to be

skirted around or kind of just like morphed. And not only do I not understand it sometimes, like actually legitimately I don't understand it, but more so I just don't understand at this basic level of what do you mean? What do you freaking mean? Well, like maybe in the back end, they thought that they would be more likely to get a conviction off of those charges versus some of the other ones. I don't know. Like, maybe they couldn't prove like it happened the way that he's saying it happened. And maybe that's why they decided to go with conspiracy. But it feels like a lack of justice and acknowledgement of the horrific crime that happened to label it that way.

went down and asked Savannah to come up there. What do you mean? Like, you know? It was premeditated. She went through with it. She had a plan. She had a plan. She did kidnap this baby and held it for days before, like, anyone knew about it.

And, yeah, I agree. I don't. And I don't know, like, the context of everything. And I don't understand, like, how the legal system decides things. But I would make the assumption that they thought that they had a better chance of a conviction doing it that way. But it feels like a lack of justice. Yeah. Brooke and Williams' confessions further highlight the police's shortcomings in this case.

According to Brooke and Williams, Savannah's body was in the bathroom closet during both the first and second times that the police searched the apartment. And another thing, they might have noticed if they were paying just a little bit more attention. is that according to Brooke and William, the baby was on the bed next to William while the police officer was searching the home. Are you serious? Like when he was sitting down drinking a beer, playing video games, like the baby was there. There was a baby laying, like sleeping next to him or something. Yeah.

In what was nothing short of a miracle, baby Hazley Joe survived. After three weeks, Savannah's boyfriend, Ashton was green. granted custody of the little girl, and he chose to raise her on the Spirit Lake Reservation in North Dakota. Savannah's family did everything right to try and protect their daughter and advocate for her. They quickly and repeatedly sounded the alarm bells that something was wrong, but they were repeatedly dismissed by law enforcement. It took the police and law enforcement far too long to take them seriously, and the outrage and grief in response to the mishandling of Savannah's case led to the Savannah Act, which was signed into law.

in October of 2020. The act, as described by the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center, aims to improve data collection of missing and murdered Native Americans, clarify the responsibilities of tribal, federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies responding to cases of missing or murdered Native Americans and empower tribal governments with resources and information necessary to effectively respond to such cases. The act also directs the Department of Justice to review, revise and develop law enforcement and justice protocols to address missing and murdered Native Americans. The Red River, where Savannah's body was found, is the same river where Tina Fontaine's body was found just a few years earlier. And tragically, there are just two of many indigenous women

whose bodies were found in this river. Tina's case prompted the formation of the group, drag the red, where volunteers searched the river looking for evidence that might help solve the cases of missing or murdered indigenous. women. Chances are, most people have not heard of Savannah or Tina's stories, but they have heard of Gabby's. This isn't a fluke. It's the result of racist systems, systems that have failed repeatedly at protecting indigenous and people of color. Knowing their names and stories is important because with knowledge comes power and outrage, two things that can enact the change that is desperately needed and deserved. And to bring this all together, as I mentioned at the

top, May 5th is the National Day of Awareness regarding missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, two-spirit, and indigenous peoples. And while the statistics surrounding missing and murdered indigenous peoples, not just women, as we discussed briefly, they are startling. There are signs of movement in the right direction when it comes to awareness. Dozens of organizations have risen to give voice to this crisis, political action, including at the federal level, have gained momentum and change can be found in the form of marches, rallies, and dedicated awareness days, such as the National Park System's Red Shaw Day, which is in November. And red, be it in the form of shawls, dresses, handprints, and more is the color used to

raise awareness and honor victims. The red hand symbolizes the connection between the physical world and the spiritual world, according to Nativehope.org, quote, Native Americans believe that the dead can see red. So by wearing red, we invoke the help of our ancestors and spiritual guides. Advocates wear red to signify the need for awareness and action with the color symbolizing lifeblood and calling attention to the stolen sisters who can no longer speak for themselves. And I was really excited to be driving around New Hampshire and seeing one of the little communities there honor this. As I was researching for this episode. I'm driving around all over the place in downtown our red dresses hanging on trees and on

buildings and in parks. And I immediately knew what they represented, but I didn't know that there was this art installation that was happening. And I guess it's the third year in a row that they've done this. So I did a little research on it. So May 5th, like we said, is kind of the day, but May as a whole is used to sell to recognize this day. It's also called Red Dress Day. And the dresses as part of Dover, New Hampshire, citywide, art installation is titled No More Stolen Sisters. Jenny Tibbitts, who created the exhibit, raises awareness about missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, and was quoted saying about her project, each dress represents an indigenous woman or girl who has gone missing or has been murdered. The feet of the feet of the

I have received after each show is phenomenal. People are so moved because of the impact that a simple dress has. Along with the dresses scattered throughout town are informational signs about the significance of the exhibit. And the project highlights both the national crisis of violence against indigenous women and connects to Dover history of indigenous women and girls who were murdered or went missing in the early 1600s. Wow. And I looked into it more and it's going to be up through the end of May. That's really interesting. And also, I mean, we say it all the time and said it in this episode, no coincidences

and to be researching this. And it is the time of year. But to get to see that in real life, people taking action to bring this awareness is really. It's exciting. It's exciting to see in person and playing out. Like, I can read of all of the rallies and awareness. like raising awareness talks a lot of things online online events obviously now are huge and clearly just researching going out of my day to day life to research this you know but to see it just

walking down the street of a little town in new hampshire is just so full circle and so nice and refreshing to be like i know what that's about it's promising for the advocacy for this whole cause Yep. If you want to further educate yourself on the topic of murdered and indigenous peoples, native hope.org is a really good place to start. I referenced it a lot. There's a lot of really moving pieces of information and just kind of like fast stats that really speak to the gravity of the situation. But also supporting indigenous voices by seeking out platforms that highlight their stories, maybe filtering through like the top five Netflix documentaries of true crime that are not covering their stories maybe, seeking out them on your own, sharing information online,

attending events from rallies or talks, or supporting organizations like the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center, or just by talking about it with your friends, you know, the same conversations that you're having about the Gabby Petitos of the world, like Savannah Greywind. I mean, that story is insane. And it's so heartbreaking. And it's not on people's minds or in their conversations as much as someone's like Gabby, someone like Gabby's. So regardless, just have the conversations, pay attention and just know that for every big name headline, there are dozens more that are just as deserving and awaiting answers. Yeah.

Well, thank you for telling that story. I think that, I mean, it was awful, obviously, but there are really good causes behind it and a lot of information that you brought to light that I think is important. And I wanted to backtrack for a second on something that you said at the beginning because I think that it just, it brings a lot of perspective on why this is so important. And you mentioned with Gabby Petito that after she went missing, there was such this crazy search efforts that ended up leading. to finding other people who had been missing and hadn't gotten the attention. And they, there were all these families that got closure. And then you went into the indigenous people who aren't getting attention. And I just had to think, imagine the amount of people that would be found if those indigenous people were also getting that attention. You know, they were, if they had been searching for Tina and if they had been searching for both of these women, to the extent that they searched for Gabby, maybe other people would have gotten closure to. Yeah, for sure. I just thought like that was such a, in Gabby's case, it was such a horrific case. And that was something really nice

that came out of it were closure for other families. And with these cases that also happened with the indigenous women, if those had garnered the same attention, maybe there could have been even more discoveries with that as well. Yeah. So I just, I thought that that was. really interesting and something that you don't hear, even with Gabby's case, you don't hear much about the other people who were found because of it. Right. I mean, the two women, I think that in Moab that were like discovered at this time too, I remember their names, but mostly because people were speculating that there was a link. Do you remember that? Yeah, they thought Brian did it. They thought Brian did it or before Brian, like maybe there was like the serial killer out in Moab

that was targeting young women. And yeah, like so again, it was a byproduct of Gabby's story. It wasn't on their own. It wasn't, they didn't stand alone. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. This, this topic is tough. And I, I wouldn't necessarily say I avoided it for a while, but I held back on it for a while because I really wanted to make sure I did it in the right way in a respectful way, not only to talking about, you know, I'm not of indigenous descent. Like, I don't want to feel like I'm speaking on behalf of somebody else, but to just use that as like, well, then I won't say anything at all is not the right move either. And I also didn't want to detract or take away from Gabby at all and be like, yeah, well,

a well like she yeah you know so i just hope it was done or came across the right way and that it was worth the wait and yeah i think you did it in a really beautiful way that was very respectful to everyone involved and i also think that just because you're not part you're not a part of a community those are also the people who need to rally for that community you know if there are so many instances where it's like if you take this group of people and you expect them to fight all alone, community is what brings things. Community brings people together and you don't have to be a part of it to feel strongly about their rights and protecting them and advocating for causes within that community. That reminds me of like just a, I think it was like last week maybe. Did you see the

video of in Boston of when ICE was coming and trying to deport? a mother or daughter or something and the entire neighborhood threw themselves on top of the car. Yeah. And we're trying to block them and like we're trying to help and stuff. It's just like you ought to speak up and act out for for people who are deserving of it. And I just like, and I'm so obviously I understand that and agree with that. I just wanted to make sure that like, I don't know. Yeah.

I think you did. I think you know what I'm trying to say. Very respectful and I'm glad that you covered it because I think it's a a really important topic and especially our content you know we cover national parks and which are all the ancestral homelands of indigenous people so to have this podcast and not talk about these things that are happening especially true crime murder of indigenous people and totally never talk about it would be a complete oversight yeah on our end yeah i'm glad you did it thank you well uh yeah i'll link some of the resources in the episode description that I talked about as far as places to use as reference

and for further reading or listening. And we will be back next week with something else. Yeah. So in the meantime, enjoy the video. But watch you're back. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more.

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