National Park After Dark - Origin Story: Death Valley National Park

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Rumors. We’ve all heard one, spread one or have been directly involved in one. More often than not, by the time these tall tales reach your ears – whatever story you're hearing is muddled. Murky and questionable details lie in layers, coating whatever grain of truth there may be at the center, and finding that grain can be difficult. Today we return to Death Valley National Park to investigate legends and tall tales in a search for that grain of truth, because more often than not where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Join us for a LIVE show in Denver! Tickets HEREFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Blissy: Use our link and code NPAD to get an additional 30% off.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off your first month of online therapy by using our link.Stamps:  Sign up with promo code NPAD for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, plus free postage, and a free digital scale.Away: Use our link and start your 100-day trial.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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More often than not, by the time these tall tales reach your ears, whatever story you're hearing is muddled. Murky and questionable details lie in layers, coding whatever grain of truth there may be at the center. And finding that grain can be difficult. The longer the grapevine grows, and the more time that goes by, the more problematic finding the real story because, comes. It's easy to get lost in the salacious details, to focus on the frivolous elements of the story and lose sight of what really happened. Sometimes word on the street seems so outlandish, so wildly impossible, that you dismiss it altogether. But that would be a mistake, because as the old saying goes, where there's smoke, there's fire.

Welcome to National Park After Dark. Happy Halloween, everyone. What a fun day. What a time to be alive. What are you doing today? I am not doing all that much. Are you handing out candy? Do you get trick-or-treaters there?

Not really, no. I don't really get much trick-or-treaters. I'll just be hanging out. And, I mean, you know, but I was recently riding my motorcycle, my dual-sport. dirt bike motorcycle and I crashed and I dropped my 300 pound bike on my leg. So I am slightly immobile at the moment in healing. So I'm probably just going to watch some spooky, spooky shows or movies and call it a day. I will say I think I told you the other week. I'm like, I don't want to watch the second hocus pocus. Are you going to watch it? I did watch it. And I fell asleep halfway through and that's

unheard of for me and I just have no interest in finishing it. I'm just not a fan, I guess, of the second one. And I knew I wasn't going to like it. And here we are not liking it. Confirmed. I just like stop trying to make fetch happen. Like it's never going to happen. You know, like the first one was the best. And I just don't like when people try and mess with things that are already just fine the way they are. So I too. I feel like this is the most depressing Halloween intro ever. I'm sorry. I'm like, I'm injured and not doing anything and you're like, I fucking hate a hocus focus, focus. Two. Okay. Well, actually, let me pick up the mood. It has nothing to do with Halloween, but I've waited all morning to tell you this on the podcast because

I, Cassie and I've been talking all morning. Don't be scared. It's actually really good. So, and it has nothing to do with Halloween at all. But it's like a treat. So I'm throwing it in there. And it's a sign story. Okay. Let's hear it. So I don't think I've told this on the podcast, but obviously you know. So for backstory, because it's not going to make any sense to anyone if they don't know the backstory. When I was moving from Washington to Colorado, the day. So I was moving over a weekend and I sat and I meditated on like a Thursday. And usually, as you guys know, I've been on point with asking for specific signs. Like, I want to see a moose. I want to see a penguin. I want to see whatever. And on this particular day, I was drawing a blank. I was so sad. I just like couldn't think. I'm like,

just what can I look for to know that you're going to be with me on a really difficult weekend? And out of nowhere, I got a flash of the meme of Buzz Lightyear, like a Buzz Lightyear. like a Buzz Light Year meme. And I was like, okay, what the hell? Like, Ian and I had no connection to Toy Story, Buzz Light Year, whatever. But it felt like a different thought. Like, it wasn't my thought. And it was so significant and profound that I wrote it down in my, like, meditation journal.

So all Thursday, all Friday, Saturday morning comes when I'm going to pick up the U-Haul, and I hadn't seen a Buzz Light Year. And I was so, like, kind of depressed because I'm like, God, okay, so maybe I was wrong. Like that meant nothing. And I was, I could have bet all money in the world that I would have seen Buzz Lightyear like on the side of the U-Haul, like as the artwork, you know, they usually have something on the side there. And it wasn't.

So I was depressed. And so Dorian and I, Ian's best friend and I are packing up our stuff. And then he's like, you know what? I kind of want a coffee. And I'm like, you know what? I can always go for a coffee. So we stopped. Walk into Starbucks, which I never do.

And there's one family. that come up behind us and in the entire store while we're waiting for our coffee, they sit down next to me and lo and behold, the kid is playing with like a giant buzz light ear figury. Can't miss it. I can't miss it. I took a picture of it because I couldn't even believe it. And I just started crying. I was so I was like, because there was like the day I needed to see it. It was there right in front of my face. And so that that's the buzz light year story. So today, or over the last few days, I've had a really, really difficult time, as always, but more so the last couple days, just feeling really alone and sad and all that jazz that everyone knows.

And I've been kind of hesitant to ask for a sign just because I haven't felt Ian around as strongly as I had before. I was in my car yesterday morning and crying. And I was like, I need something. Like, you've got to give me something. Once again, no idea what to ask for. Just something. Make sure it's like undeniable.

So all day goes by yesterday, nothing. This morning, I go to check my mail and I have a letter. And it is addressed to us, to the podcast, to our old PO box. And it was forwarded to my new address. Yep. And look at the stamp. It's Buzz Lightyear. It's Buzz Light Year.

It's a huge stamp. And look what the stamp over the Buzz Light Year thing says. Thinking of you. Is that what it says? Yeah. Aw, that's really cute. No such thing as coincidences. Yeah, Lauren, thank you for the letter, first of all. And you have no idea, like, what it meant to me just because of the stamp. Like, the contents were very nice as well. But it was just, like, exactly what I needed today or, you know, recently. And, yeah, I have no idea, like, why Buzzlight Years now are thing, but it is. And, yeah, I'm just so happy. I'm literally going to frame this envelope because it's like so happy. It's crazy how like small, kind things that you're doing to be kind can mean so much in ways that you probably don't even realize. Yeah, exactly. Like she has no idea that that just, well, now I hope you do.

But yeah, it's just the universe works in mysterious ways. And that was just so special and a good Halloween tree. No, today isn't Halloween. It was a nice treat for me and I really, really needed it. So thank you. And that's my story, my signed story before our actual story. A couple things. Two things before I begin. Number one, we had our first Spotify live show last night and it was so fun.

So thank you for everyone who came, talked to us, supported us, listened to us. It was great. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was cool to be able to have you guys actually come on and talk to us through the Spotify live app. So we'll probably do it again in the future. We don't know when, but it was really fun. Yeah, it was super fun. And I guess there's one other really big thing. We should probably talk about. It's a really big thing. And we're super excited. We are going to be doing a in-person live show in Denver in December. Yep. Denver, we're coming in hot. We're going to be there the fourth, which is a Sunday.

The show is at 7 o'clock. And it's at Comedy Works downtown. The tickets are going to be. be on sale starting today. We'll put the link in all our socials. It'll be in the episode description. We're really excited. It's going to be our first in-person live event that we've ever done. And it's right around my birthday. So come celebrate us and our community and my birthday. We'll be all together. Yeah. I'm so excited to come visit Denver too. It's going to be a really good time. We'll probably going to hop into a national park while I'm there at some point. And it'll be. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a good trip all around. But especially because we're finally getting to do a live show where we can actually meet you guys and we can tell stories in

person and we got some cool Colorado stories in our upper sleeves. So it'll be really fun. Yeah. So if you're interested, go grab tickets. And without further ado, we're going to switch gears and go back to a park that you've covered before for today's story. And that is Death Valley. Ah, very exciting. Are we doing a Halloween? story? Okay. No. What? It is Halloween. Is it spooky? No. Right. Okay. Okay, okay. Hear me out. Hear me out. So I had all of the best intentions to do a Halloween-themed episode. Just so everyone knows the intention was there. I got sidetracked and now we're here. So it just is what it is. All right. Well, it's interesting. And just so everyone knows, there is a Halloween tie, Death Valley was established on Halloween. So it's his birthday today. Happy birthday, Death Valley. Yeah, so there you go. It is Halloween themed. So there. That's where it kind of

begins and ends. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after. The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Like I said, before we visited this park for an episode, you did, I think, last year, if memory serves.

No, I think it was this year. Was it? Yeah, it was this year. Oh, time doesn't exist for me anymore. But as I was writing this over the last few days, I was actually in the park with Ian, two years ago today. So it's kind of like also bittersweet for me.

We had a really good time there, camped out, got this shit scared out of me. It's a really, really cool park. And just as a little bit of background, I know we've discussed it before, but it was first protected as a national monument in 1933 and later it was designated as a park

like I said on October 31st of 1994. Death Valley is the largest park in the lower 48 states and it comes in at larger than the states of Rhode Island and Delaware combined, so it's huge. It straddles the California and Nevada border as well, and more than 93% of the park is designated as wilderness area. And despite the arid desert climate, many species of plants and animal life thrive here, including coyotes, big horn sheep, Joshua trees, snakes, flowering cactus, roadrunners, and even pupfish. The landscape varies between salt flats, sand dunes, bad lands, mountains,

canyons and valleys, and overall emits a really otherworldly vibe. If you've ever been there, it's so much more than just a desert. It just gives creepy otherworldly you're on another planet type of vibe. The crystallized white salt flats of bad water basin, the kaleidoscope of colors on the rocks at artist's palette, and the ripples of sand of the mesquite flat sand dunes draw in about 1.5 million visitors every year who dare to deal with the elements, mainly the intense heat. The park is the hottest and driest place in North America with the highest recorded temperature on record, and that comes in from July of 1913. Do you remember when you did this, when you covered this,

how hot it was? It's like 125 degrees or something like that. Close. Close. 134. 134. Fahrenheit, which is about 56.7 Celsius. And they get, on average, 1.5 inches of annual precipitation. So almost nothing. Almost nothing. And that's only, that's like overall there are some places within the park that don't even register, like, annual precipitation because they get so little. Interesting. And while temperatures soaring over 100 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer are quite common, nightly temperatures can plunge below freezing in the winter. All of this to say, it's a difficult place to survive. It actually got its name after a group of pioneers who got lost here in the winter of 1849 to 1850. They were on their way from Salt Lake City to California in search of gold.

While only one man was reported to have died from that party in the valley, it is said as the rest of the group hiked up and over the Panama Mountains, a range of mountains within the park, a member of that party turned to look back and said goodbye, Death Valley. Hence, it's named today. But the pioneers of the California Gold Rush were not the first people to have been noted in the park. Several groups of natives dating back 10,000 years have been known to live and utilize this area. Evidence of their lives, including different tools, petroglyphs, shelters,

campsites, and weapons have been found in thousands of archaeological sites throughout the park. And while these have all been well studied, documented, and at times put on display for different visitors, there is something big that has made appearances in Death Valley legends and lore for thousands of years. And supposedly, it's right underneath our feet. Speaking of legends, I think it's safe to say that most of us are a bit familiar with two of the most intriguing tales in history, the Lossity of Atlantis and El Dorado. The legend of El Dorado has changed several times over the years from its origins in the 1500s, but it is known today as one of the most famous lost cities of gold. I first learned about El Dorado from that. I think it's a Disney movie, the cartoon Disney movie.

Yeah, I remember that. You know what I mean? Same with the Laocity of Atlantis was a cartoon. tune too. Was it? Yeah, that's how I remember it. From Disney? Or just in general? It might have been her like Pixar or something. Oh, okay, I've never seen it. Several expeditions forged their way through various parts of South America in search of this fabled city and while it has found a permanent home in the lexicon, it has been largely dismissed as myth and myth only. Similarly, Atlantis, the legendary island that supposedly sank beneath the waves of the ocean long ago,

taking with it a great civilization has also been seared into the curious minds of explorers for generations. Despite overwhelming evidence that this fabled island was invented by the philosopher Plato and his writings, that hasn't stopped people for searching for it for more than 1,600 years. Wow, long time. Yeah, long time. The commitment is unmatched. Of course, stories of lost cities and civilizations aren't limited to those two and pop up in histories of South and Central. America, Egypt, Italy, Greece, and more. But for us here in the United States, you don't have to look

too far for our own long-lost city filled with mummies, gold, and jewels, because allegedly, it's right here underneath our feet in Death Valley. How have I never heard this before? I have heard of it here and there, but I never really looked too much into it until today. So just to circle back to you're like, are we doing a spooky episode? And I said no. My original plan was to visit three parks and kind of hit three different things and their origin stories. So mummies, vampires and witches in different ways.

And I started researching the mummies in unique ways, like different ways than what the norm is. And I stumbled upon this. And I was like, okay, I'm going to start writing about this section first. And then it just got out of hand. And now it's its own entire episode. It was just so much information on it. Yeah. So I thought it deserved its own episode.

So that's why we're here now. Oh, well, I'm excited. Have you seen The Lost City of Z? I have, but it's been a while because it has the guy from Sons of Anarchy in it, right? Charlie Hunnam. Hunnam. Okay. Yes, but I love that movie.

It's one of my favorite, like, Lost City type of movies because it's a true story and I thought it was really well done. So if anyone is in the mood after this for, like, satiating a Lost City itch, that should be your go-to. But back to the story. Every legend has an origin story, and this one is no exception. As I mentioned, several groups of indigenous peoples lived in the Death Valley area for thousands of years. But the piute, which, just to be clear, does not refer to a single group or tribe.

It's actually a term that refers to several groups of indigenous peoples between the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra and Nevada. So when you hear the piu, it's like a collective term. Okay. They have a story that has been passed down for centuries of an underground situation. city called the kingdom of Shinov. Also meaning ghostland, this subterranean city is a sacred place for the piute and serves as a portal to the spirit world. According to this legend, many thousands of years ago, a prominent and well-respected chief lost his wife. Heartbroken and overcome with grief, the great chief contemplated his own life and thought that it was not worth living without her. He decided

to follow the path of fallen members of the tribe to the land of the dead. This path led him through a long journey through seemingly endless paths of underground passageways, where he encountered supernatural forces, dark spirits, and fearsome beasts. He eventually made it to the end of the trail, which was marked by a brilliant, bright light, and a large expanse of meadow. This was the spirit land. However, to reach it, he had one last obstacle to cross a dangerously narrow arched bridge over a deep, dark canyon. With the beautiful promise of the spirit land ahead, and hopes of seeing his wife again, he braved the bridge and made it across safely. He entered the land known as the kingdom of Shinov, named after its ruler, and he was met by the ruler's daughter. She led him to a large outdoor

amphitheater filled with the spirits of thousands of piute, singing and dancing in large circles. The chief was elated to see the dead had found happiness once again, but then was struck with sadness. How was he ever to find his wife amongst so many spirits? Shinov's daughter led him to the edge of the circle and instructed him to sit and patiently wait for his wife. And when he saw her, to quickly carry her off, making sure that neither of them looked back on their way out of the kingdom to the surface world. There, the chief sat for days, searching anxiously amongst the crowds for his wife. He saw the spirits of his old friends, family, and even some of his enemies, but not his wife. Just as he was losing all hope, she appeared before him. He ran to her, grabbed her hand,

and they fled together back across the meadows and over the perilous bridge. Just as they were about to enter the passageways, the chief, unable to resist one last look at the beauty of the spirit world, turned his head to take one last glance. In a flash, he found himself alone. His wife was gone forever. The legend concludes with him making his way through the tunnels back to the surface and back to his people.

He spent the rest of his days mourning his wife, but also sharing the story of the kingdom of Shinon, and all its beauty and wonder. As with both El Dorado and the Lost City of Atlantis, the stories that we know today is much different from their origin stories, and this legend is no different. While there are certainly similarities, the legend of the ghostland has taken on a life of its own.

So now we're going to kind of fast forward quite a bit to August of 1947. A man named Howard Hill shared a sensational story In front of a gathering of the city of L.A.'s Transportation Club, he described a story of a man named Dr. Russell and a monumental discovery. Originally from Cincinnati, Dr. Russell and his friend Dr. Bovi had both retired and moved to California several years earlier back in 1931. They decided they wanted to try their hand in the mining business. And while investigating one of the mining claims out in Death Valley,

the soil he was standing on in one of the tunnels gave way, and he fell into a large cave. This cave had numerous tunnels splintering off from it, and they led to even more caverns. The two men continued to explore, and in all, reportedly followed the tunnels for miles. They stumbled into caverns containing pottery, what appeared to be a combination of Egyptian and native hieroglyphic writings carved into stone, what appeared to be a cathedral-like room, and another that they described as a ritual hall. And most shockingly, they discovered human remains. and not just any human remains. They were mummies, and they were giants, measuring eight to nine feet in height,

complete with dried gray sheepskin-like clothing. In all, the pair later stated that they explored over 30 tunnels that ran across 180 square miles of Death Valley. What? How did they not get lost? That was actually my first question. I'm like, mm-hmm. And it's pitch black down there. I know.

I know. How do you find your way out of that? Well, they found their way out enough to spread the word. GPS. That's 1940s. Garmin. Carman. MapQuest.

MapQuest. Remember you had to, like, print out MapQuest directions, like on paper? On paper. And then you had to have, like, your passenger, hopefully you had a passenger, read it to you. And then it's like... It was like a booklet, like stapled booklet. Because if you were going on a road trip. Turn left on so-and-so.

And then it was like, is this the road? And you have to look for the signs. and you actually have to know what roads you're on. Now you just like blindly follow it. The GPS. Blindly follow an Australian man's voice. So all of that seems like a pretty significant archaeological find, right? Like that's astounding.

But like I said, this story was shared in 1947 and apparently took place 16 years prior. According to the two doctors, Russell and Bovi, they had tried to get people to pay attention and to care about their discovery, but they hadn't reached much success or support with that. Word did reach some professional archaeologists, but many of them were very skeptical, including Dr. Robert Aris of the Natural History Museum of L.A. He stated that a discovery of that kind was highly unlikely, that its legitimacy was questionable,

and that while it could be possible that there was a race of prehistoric giants, there was no proof presented by the pair. So, like, couldn't they just bring them to where they were? Well, that's, the question. Disappointed but not deterred, the men came up with a plan. They created a company called Amazing Explorations Incorporated and began collecting money from different investors to fund their excavation and continued exploration work of this find. Once the story was shared in that gathering by Mr. Hill in the 40s, it caught the attention of newspapers throughout Southern

California. They wrote stories with catchy headlines and it spread like wildfire. The papers described the supposed discovery in Death Valley as one that rivaled the discovery of King Tut's tomb, which was big news kind of recently. That happened in the 20s, 1920s. So it wasn't that long ago comparatively. And they even went as far as to claim that the lost civilization of Atlantis was found. And it wasn't a world away somewhere in the Mediterranean. It was there underneath Death Valley. So like it's being very sensationalized. Yeah. And while the news story spread, Dr. Russell and Dr. Bovi entered Death Valley again in hopes of returning with evidence that would prove they were right all along. Meanwhile, that pair wasn't the only ones to have discovered, quote unquote, this lost city.

As described by a book called Death Valley Men published in 1932, another group was onto this underground city. Two prospectors named Jack Stewart and Bill Cochran had a cabin in Death Valley. One day, a man who identified himself as Mr. White walked up to their cabin, which was weird because they're in a very remote area as it is. Death Valley is huge and remote. Even today, built up as a national park, let alone in the 30s. So this was very unusual. So Mr. White walks up to this cabin and says his car broke down several miles back and he had left to find help because his partner, Mr. Thompson and his wife were waiting there. The two prospectors helped him out.

They gave him a ride back to the vehicle, got the other two members of the group, towed their vehicle back to the cabin, and helped them fix it. Very generous. While they were fixing the car, the group of three was acting pretty strange and odd, and they were kind of whispering and speaking amongst each other in hushed tones. And while the prospectors didn't outwardly ask what was really going on, they noted that their behavior was weird. Finally, they admitted to the prospectors the true reason they were out in Death Valley that

They were searching for the lost city of gold. So according to this story, apparently, Mr. White had a partner that had worked in the mines of the Panama Mountains. One day, while he was working, he fell through the bottom of a mine shaft and into a large open cavern. As he got up and wandered his way around in search of an exit, he claims to have found himself in a complex system of rooms ranging from treasure vaults, council chambers, and more. He also stated he saw mummified remains of people adorned with gold shields and spears and wearing leather-like clothing dripping in jewels.

After sharing the story with the prospectors, the group of three thanked them for their help, left the cabin in the direction of the Panama Mountains, and were never heard from again. So it's like the same story. Yes. And this comes from a book that was published in 1932. Interesting. And they left and no one ever saw them again? Yes. So maybe they found it and they couldn't get out.

Take all of these stories of the grain of salt, but keep in mind like timeframes, details, like similar threads. Okay. So there's a third story from this time frame about the Lossity of Gold as well. It stemmed from a man named Bob Eichbaum, who was the owner of the first resort in Death Valley called Stovepipe Welles Hotel. The location of the hotel was used before it was a hotel. It was a temporary settlement, like watering hole type of situation for many, many years for those passing through. It was one of the only known water source locations in the area, so settlers and miners stopped and kind of set up like a little collection of tents in this area. And Bob was an

entrepreneur from out of town and he set his sights on this location to develop. He built the hotel in 2025 as well as a scenic toll road through Death Valley, which started the transition from the area being mostly mining to a tourist destination. Bob had a deep interest. in the history of the area, especially after hearing a story from a group of indigenous locals. Known as the Cave of Living Waters, the story told of an ancient, long-lost cavern filled with artifacts from time long past. And as the icing on the cake, he heard another story that seemed to lend credit to this local legend that he started hearing. Here we go with another story. In 1930, a man named C.J. Howard, his wife, and C.J.'s business partner, Ruben King, arrived from out of state. They were from Texas and Colorado. And they came into Death Valley for their chance at finding a mining claim. Howard was down a mining shaft. What do you think happened?

He fell through. He fell through. And there was a cave system. How did you know? Oh, my God. Was there gold? At this point, I don't remember. There's so many stories. Hold on. I'll tell you in one minute. So he was down this mining shaft, he broke through into what he thought was another mining shaft, but instead it turned out to be a large tunnel paved with square stones and red cement. Howard claims to have been following the tunnel system for 28 miles to what he described as a large, buried city. He went on to describe details, including coming across a circular chamber with a table in the center, surrounded by the mummified remains of several people. Standing at the walls, mummified remains of more men, looking as if they were

standing guard, clothed and armor with gold shields and spears in each hand. So pretty similar. Pretty similar. Okay, how are these people getting out of these caves? I don't know. I don't. I'm just, they find, he went for 28 miles and then he, what, like found a little hole in a wall and was like, oh, I could just. Just walk out of here. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm just so confused. I'm confused about more than that. But yes, that is a valid point. Howard stated the state of the preservation of the mummies was astounding and described them not as giants, but around six feet tall with pale white skin and open blue eyes. In adjacent rooms, he said there were sacks upon sacks of gold nuggets.

And allegedly, he took a couple that he could fit within his pockets. Howard apparently told Bob Eichmann this story outright and in full detail, which seems weird. Like, if you find something like that, you should keep it on the low. But he didn't disclose the location because obviously he wanted it to himself. So although Bob is now living and working within Death Valley, he wasn't a local and didn't know the area very well. So he decided to hire two people who did. And who better than local prospectors living and working in a cabin in Death Valley.

To offer to investigate the potential existence of a long-lost subterranean city would surely be intriguing to any. anyone, these two men were especially interested because this story sounded very familiar to them. Just months prior, they had helped a small group of people along their way in search of the same thing. That's right. Bob hired Jack Stewart and Bill Cochran. What a coincidence. Here we are. I mean, at the time, I don't think there's really that many people hanging out in Death Valley that are trying to search for underground cities.

So while Jack and Bill knew the area very well, they had no idea where to start looking for such a fabled place. After all, Death Valley is huge. And what they were searching for was underground. Like, where do you even start? You know, it's like, oh, I guess it's here somewhere. Good luck. So they, in turn, enlisted the help of a local man referred to as Shoshone Johnny. He pointed the men to the southern end of the valley to the sheep mountains of the Panaman

range. There, he said, they would find a large section of rope at the mouth of a cave. So Jack and Bill did as he said, and lo and behold, they found the rope with no map quest or anything. They found it. No garment. No garment. They lowered themselves down and into the cavern, which they described as 60 feet high and 15 feet wide. So it's very big. And when they reached the cavern floor, a large gust of wind almost toppled them over and they claimed to hear sounds of running water echoing. throughout the walls, which is interesting because there's another legend about the cave of living waters. At their feet were fragments of pottery and remnants of fire. There were symbol-like writing described as a combination of Egyptian and native hieroglyphics covering parts of the walls. Amazed,

the two men pushed on, but were quickly stopped in their tracks. The tunnel leading from the cavern had been caved in, and they were unable to advance any further. The two men reported back to Bob of their discoveries. And apparently, later, when Bob was talking to C.J. Howard, who told him all of this to begin with, just not the location, he kind of was like, oh, well, you found it. And I kind of thought that someone was going to stumble across it. So I intentionally blasted shut the passage to deter others from investigating or taking any of his things now.

Oh, so he, so it's blocked because of him? Yeah, so he intentionally caved in. This is all like supposed alleged situation. But yes, according to him, that's what he said. And I mean, if we're going to take this as fact and like actually happening, we all know cave systems more often than not have different points of entry. So maybe he found through his 28 miles worth of exploration that there were other points of entry that weren't as obvious as this giant open. Just happened to have a stick of dynamite in his pocket. I knew.

I knew how this is going to come in his. handy one bit. So all of these stories, but also so many loose ends, like there's so many questions. What ended up happening to all of these people? Like, obviously, you can't go to Death Valley. Did they all mysteriously disappear? Well, yes and no. Oh.

So did anyone ever produce any actual evidence to literally anybody? Dale Huesley, a Death Valley National Park Interpretive Ranger, knows the legends of Death Valley very well. He states that there is evidence of Dr. Russell and Dr. Bovi, the witch has a refresher. I know there's a lot of names going on, the two men from the beginning of the episode, the first story, who were gathering funds for their adventure company, yada, yada. They did return there. Dr. Russell's car was found abandoned deep in one of the canyons with a broken radiator.

Both men were never seen or heard from again. And before we jump to the conclusion of they got lost in search for the gold and it's romantic in a mystery and whatever. There's like one very glaring, more likely possibility, and it's kind of supported by this. So according to the Cincinnati Historical Society, where the men had been from originally, if you remember, no doctors, by their names, were living in the city at the time.

So it's my opinion that they were con artists. They're fake, like they made up, they heard this story from a previous publication, because there are stories about this that took place before they allegedly found it. They created this fake story, made this company to gather funds from a bunch of people who were interested in it, took the money, staged a breakdown disappearance, and lived their best lives somewhere else. That's what I think happened.

Oh, that's definitely a twist on it. But then what about all the other stories that are similar? So Bob Eichmann, the founder of the Stoffpipe Wells Hotel, he died in 1932. So he was one of the first people. So even before these, those two doctors, alleged doctors, he had his search going on way before them. And he died in 1932. He was only 49.

He had a short battle with meningitis. And he never did find the lost city that he was searching for. Prior to his death, he spoke at length about it with a friend named Alma Overholt, who just happened to be a writer for the LA Times. story upon story of the elusive long-lost city was splashed across the papers. So I think that for him, this was a big ploy to bring tourism to Death Valley. Because what would draw in business more? He just constructed the first hotel, the first toll road,

and he happens to just sneak the story to someone in high places that can get word out to all of Southern California about this long-lost city of gold. You should come see it maybe. I think it was a business move. I mean, it sounds like a business move, but are you saying that this lost city doesn't actually exist? It's all just smoke. Well, we'll keep going. Jack Stewart and Bill Cochran, the two prospectors, lived out the rest of their lives in Death Valley as prospectors,

and they both passed away in the 1940s with no fanfare about any lost city or anything. Okay. And CJ Howard, I have no idea what happened to him. I had to, like, actually address that because he is the last piece of the last piece of the the puzzle. I have no idea what happened to him. He supposedly was the one who like snuck some of the gold nuggets into his pocket. I was going to say with all of these people that are saying they saw these mummies, they were dressed in gold, they had these spears, they had something, no one took anything. Right. Like what in the hell? Like you would think that if you wanted people to come back

and research this, that you would come back with like a gold necklace or like a proof of, and we're not condoning grave robbing or like you know like they're saying i think that it's morally correct i'm just saying like these people are looking for golds and they found golds you would think that they would come out with gold you know it just makes sense right or not say a fucking thing about it and just cash in on it i mean not that i would do that but just it's all very fishy it's all very fishy it's interesting though that so many people had the same similar stories. Well, there's more. Okay. But wait, there's more. All three of these stories took place within the same relative time frame. All had similar themes, mummies, gold, underground tunnels. So is there actually something true to that? Or were people just making up

stories of their own based off of one story that maybe was a local legend, somebody made up, and then it just kind of went from there. I mean, people are known to make shit up. And all of those stories may not have been the real deal, but does that mean it's all lies? Doesn't it seem like it had to have come from somewhere at some point? Yeah. Before all of this unraveled in the 1920s and 30s, yet another book was published. And it's called Death Valley Swamper Ike's traditional lore, why, when, and how. And the author is named D.A. Hufford, and he published it back in 1902. And it had a very similar story in it. The book's author was friends with this man named Swamper Ike, who worked on the Borax wagons of Death Valley. Again, this is someone who knew the

valley very well through his work because he lived and worked in the valley, but more importantly, through his childhood. His parents had died when he was just an infant and he was left abandoned in the valley. A tribe of indigenous peoples found him, raised him, and gave him his name. Ike Sasu Puetes, meaning Ike get out if you can, and he grew up learning of a fabled underground city of riches and gold. He also had a supposed experience with one cave in particular. He claimed to have been occupied at one time by prehistoric people. So he tells his friend, D.A. Hufford about this and invites him to come along himself. So he brings him up to this cave, which was up on a really steep hillside, and it was too difficult to reach by burrow,

which was a popular means of transportation, and still is in Death Valley. So they had to get off, kind of really like climb up the steep ridge to get to the entrance of this cave. And Hufford explains that when he entered, he lit up a lantern and saw red sandstone walls clearly crafted by the hand of man with fragments of pottery all over the floor, hieroglyphics carved into the walls.

And Swamper states that during his first visit, to this cave. He picked up and kept a copper axe that he used for work with Borax in the park. Well, what is now the park? For years. So he's saying that he found an artifact and actually used it for work. And the location, of course, of this axe and the supposed cave has been long lost to history or was just blatantly never there at all. So my question is, if there's no proof, was it truly lost a time, which can happen? Or was Hufford just trying to sell a book with a sensational story? I don't know. It's just like it's, I don't know.

I mean, it could, but I like to believe that people have some truth behind things. I don't know. I want to believe that this is all real. And it would make sense. Well, I have more. Okay. I'm like, it would make sense for people to find a cave with remnants of, prehistoric people, especially in Death Valley, I would think if people were living there,

where are you going to survive better in Death Valley than a cave? Cave systems are known to regulate at certain temperatures. And if above is 125 degrees and below stays at a solid 60 year round, winter, summer, you're good. So I just think of it in that way that it would make sense to find remnants of people living in cave systems in such a difficult climate to survive in. Right. So that leads us to the evidence, if there's any. And the answer is, there is kind of evidence in a way. Okay. And it is circling back to what you just said. So Death Valley National Park has archives, and they contain a folder with information about a very important discovery made in 1911 in a place called Lovelock Cave.

And before everyone rushes to Death Valley in search of this cave, you won't find it there because it's not actually in the park. It's about 350 miles northeast of Death Valley in Humboldt Sank, Nevada. So the story goes, which is actually valid. This one is actually true, just to preface. Two young men were out one day in the area of Humboldt Sink in they were duck hunting. And they noticed a strange opening in the rock. which turned out to be an entrance to a cave.

To their delight, they found over, this is sickening, they found over 12 feet of guano at the cave entrance. What's guano? Bat shit. Ew. 12 feet of bat shit. Have you never seen Ace Ventura?

I mean, Ace Ventura was a movie I watched in like 93. Oh my God, I watched it like annually. It's so funny. It's so funny. It's the sec. So there's obviously many of them, but it's the second one when he's like looking for this sacred bat. Do you remember? And he's like petrified of bats. And he always says he's like guano. And I'll never forget that scene or that. Now I know it's bat poop. Yeah. So anyway, 12 feet of it, which is disgusting. So it's at the entrance of this cave. And like I said, they were delighted. They were so thrilled because that was like hitting pay dirt for them because guano was used as a. fertilizer at the time. So they quickly formed a company, a mining company, filed a mining claim for this location, and began excavating and extracting all this guano to sell as fertilizer the next year. They quickly discovered that they found way more than just fertilizer, because within all those layers

and feet and piles of feces were native artifacts just covered in poop. So many artifacts that they actually had to stop and call UC Berkeley. Along with all of these artifacts, it was also discovered that this cave contained the remains of over 50 humans. They had reddish hair, and the red hair detail was very crucial, because according to a legend, this area in particular was once inhabited by a race of giant red-headed cannibals named the Cetica. So here we go. Another origin story. I'm just surprised that there was still hair. Yeah, well, a lot of mummies, and I didn't include this because I was just, I'm like, all right, I'm going to go off on a tangent here, and it's probably worthy of a separate episode, but mummies, especially very well-preserved mummies, are found in obviously extreme detail,

and a lot of them do still have hair. And the reason for the red hair in some cases, if I'm remembering correctly, it's not because the people had red hair when they were alive. It's like the oxidation process and the process of, you know, over time, it changes the tint of their hair color. Interesting. To a reddish, like, brassy color in some cases. So this legend story comes from the oral histories of the piute, which tells of this cannibalistic group harassing the piute for many, many years. The Cetica would consistently wage war with the piutes and even set pitfall traps for them,

capture them, and consume members of the piute for food. After several attempts to live in peace with this other tribe, they were always ignored and they continued to pray on members of the Paiutes. And finally, like I said, remember in the beginning, Paiute is kind of a general umbrella term that includes a collective. So many different tribes within the area that considered themselves Paiute banded together to destroy this common redheaded enemy. And after killing many of them through a long and. bloody battle, they chased the remaining members into a cave, where they shot flaming arrows into it and also threw in heaps of burning sage as a means to suffocate them within the cave. And thus was the end of the Cetica cannibalistic tribe. So that's the legend of this area.

Anthropologist Dr. Loud, who was working within the cave and all the artifacts that were being found in the guano, found over 10,000 artifacts over nearly a decade of excavation. Like this was a long, arduous process. And he published his work and determined that this cave and its early inhabitants, whom were later named the Lovelock culture, used this cave for nearly 4,000 years. The Lovelock culture was overtaken by the Paiutes, who were in turn, then driven out in the mid-1800s by European settlers. And while the human remains were not those of giants, in fact, none of them surpassed six feet tall,

the legend of the red-headed cannibalistic sitica persisted, especially after a sandal that was over 15 inches long was discovered. And people have big feet. I mean, people just have big feet sometimes. But like, they're like, see, giants in here, this one sandal. That's a big foot, though. It is a big foot for a six-foot tall person? Is that not a clown feet?

Big feet. That there's the, is this the origin of big foot? Wait a minute. So I mentioned it was mainly, in oral history, but it did appear in an early writing piece as well. One of the first native persons to physically write down her life's experience was a woman named Sarah Winamoka Hopkins. In her 1883 book called Life Among the Paiutes, she recounted a story of her people. That sounds familiar to you now, I hope. A group of barbaric, red-headed people

once lived along the Humboldt River. They would terrorize, capture, and consume her people, and at times even dig up they're recently dead and carry them away to consume them. She described the group as about 3,000 members strong and a war ensued between them and her people that lasted many years.

They were killed in great numbers by the piute throughout this war and eventually retreated onto houseboats onto Humboldt Lake where they were slowly picked off. Finally, they retreated to the shore and fled into a nearby cave. The piutees

offered to spare them if they agreed to stop eating people, which sounds so generous. Yeah, I mean, I would take that deal. Yeah, it's like, yeah, but well, they refused. So the piutes were like, all right, have it your way. They lit the mouth of the cave on fire. And again, this story is handed down to Sarah Winamoka, and she's just retelling it. But in her book, she does state that she has a dress that has clumps of the red hair. from some of these members of this cannibalistic tribe

that was passed down from generation to generation and the hair was like weaved into it in certain designs. However, the existence of this dress has never been confirmed, but she did write it in there. Of course, this cave was not in the park, but it has very similar ties to the local origin stories and relatively recent physical discoveries of potential links to it. Also, it's worth mentioning that the existence of caves and cave systems

aren't legend in Death Valley National Park. They have been very well documented, and some have actually been located, incidentally, through various mining operations. So there is some truth to someone falling through a mine shaft or, you know, whatever. Mines do exist there. Mines exist and cave systems do exist within the park at a very basic level. And Death Valley National Park Service geologist David Eck says there is enough geologic reality to accept that there is a lot of undiscovered or once discovered and since lost caves and

tunnel systems in the Panama Mountains of Death Valley. So that's it exists. I think it's just kind of it's hard. You know, it's like it seems like there is some truth. I feel like every rumor, every tall tale, every legend, every game of telephone starts with something. But the question is when people warp it, change details to fit their own narratives, straight out add in lies to it. It's hard. And this is something that has been passed down for hundreds, if not thousands of years through different stories and legends. So it could have changed over time and there's a lot of unknowns there. It is an interesting concept, though, to think, to think about it. I mean, like I mentioned earlier and how they did find real evidence of civilizations living in caves, it's not,

it's not unreasonable to think that there would be whole societies under there, especially in a place like Death Valley where it is so hard to survive there. Exactly. And I do want to leave you with one last thing. You may be thinking, this is just a bunch of hocus pocus. And it very may well be, of course, but there is something I wanted to. to leave someone with, and that is something to consider. There was once rumors of a long-lost ancient Mayan citadel in the thick, lush rainforests of

northern Guatemala. Notes of the ruins of a great city were found in the writings of a Spanish explorer who had gotten lost in the rainforest in the 1600s, and knowledge of the ancient city was never completely lost among the local people. But through the years, second and third-hand accounts of this great lost city in the jungle trickled through the generations, and rumors of it appeared periodically in print from the 16 to 1800s. Although outside interest in it was always somewhat there, its alleged location was very difficult to access, because largely in part to its remote location in the jungle, and that at the time,

a lot of it was hearsay. But expeditions to the area formally began in the 1840s, because there was enough interest garnered in it, and Takal was located. By the 1880s, pioneering archaeologists had begun to clear, map, and document these great ruins. Located 303 kilometers, which is about 188 miles north of Guatemala City, now completely mapped, the city center of DeKal alone, covers an area of over 16 square kilometers, which is over six square miles, and includes over 3,000 structures, including temples, burial chambers, pyramids, water storage reservoirs, plazas, monuments, and altars. At its height, it is estimated that Tikal had as many as 90,000 residents. It dates back to the 4th century BC, which is roughly 2400 years ago, and was abandoned by the end of the 10th century, leaving the

rainforest to reclaim the great city for the next 1,000 years. The once lost, now found, city of Tikal is now a national park. First established as a national, National Monument in 1931, and later a National Park in 1955, it is one of the country's first protected areas. Locations like this go to show you just because you can't see it right away doesn't mean it isn't there. And that is it. Just imagine if this actually gets really looked into and they discover that all of this is true. And one of the things that you do when you go to Death Valley now is you go down into these caves and you hike 28 miles. mummies and old rooms and chambers and treasure, that would be something.

Dare to dream. Dare to dream. But like I said, I mean, this happens all the time, that there's rumors of something, old stories, and they turn out to have some truth to them. And while my official stance is that there is probably not a subterranean city, full-ass city underneath that valley. I do think, like you said, it's extremely likely and possible that there is stuff under there that, you know, caves and tunnel systems that were utilized to some extent by indigenous cultures

throughout the years because it makes logical sense. And maybe at one point it was the locations of those places were very well known among the people and it just kind of got either lost or construed and details just as added over the years and that's what we have today of this wild legend. So I think there is something to it. But either way, even if there's not, it's still fun. It is fun. It's a really interesting concept and it kind of brings you into the mind of it's like

a treasure hunt. It's a lost city and to think that there could be a lost city right here in the U.S. I mean, there are on Patreon. I just did an episode. If you guys are on Patreon, I just did an episode about a national. It's a national park that has ancient ruins of old societies. And there is a city that is believed that it was once larger than London and filled with tons of people. And so, I mean, they're around.

Iowa. Where was it? It was in southwestern Illinois. It's the Cahokia Mounds state historic site. Okay. There it is. All right. Well, that's it.

Hope you had fun. and sorry it's not spooky and terrifying and scary. But I went off the rails a little bit, but that's okay. Yeah, that was very cool. And love to visit Death Valley, you know. I haven't been there yet, but it's on my list. And I know a lot of people really love that park. So it's cool to look at it a little bit differently now.

All right, everyone, thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale you'd like to share, send us an email at NPAD Stories at gmail.com.

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