National Park After Dark - Our Quarterly Tooth & Claw Collab

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Come for the animal stories, stay for the giggles. T&C and NPAD are reunited for another collab episode!Listen to Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks here, snag some fun merch here, and keep an eye on their upcoming trips here!For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to the week’s partners!Blueland: Use our link to get 15% off your first order.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.Cash App: Download Cash App Today! Use our referral code NPAD10 for our exclusive offer #CashAppPodSelectQuote: Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, and save more than fifty percent at selectquote.com/npad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com. Relax. As AI does the manual work, while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform, so flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Notice you're limitless.

Limitless. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally. Breathe. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.

That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Everyone, welcome back to National Park After Dark.

Today we have a very exciting episode. Yeah, we're basically bullied into doing these. So welcome, guys. From our audience. Oh, okay. Yeah. Not from you guys, from our audience. Yeah.

Not yet, at least. Yeah, not yet. Today we have the guys from tooth and claw. They hardly need an introduction because everyone is in love with you all. But for everyone who may be new, Tooth and Claw is an amazing podcast that we recommend all the time, and we love every single one of you. So, Jeff, Mike Wes, hello. In that order?

Is that the order in which you love us most, the least? Yeah, probably. That's okay. That's how you're on my screen, so. Okay. I was telling Danielle, I was like, five people's kind of a lot. Are you sure you want Mike? And she insisted we bring up.

I did. I fought for you. Could I have taken the day off somehow? I can still leave. Nope, you're in it now. Yep. So today we're going to do something a little different. It's a Monday episode, but we are going to do a trail tale version of Monday episode, but with a twist because we have all animal-themed stories, and each one of us will be sharing one.

I tried to pick a different animal for everybody also, which was kind of hard. Did you match it to us? Yours for sure, I think. Yeah. I think mine's birds. So me as well. Yours is not birds. Oh, no, mine isn't.

Mine's sheep. Just kidding. I saw you gave Mike a boar. So it is, that's perfect for him. I could not be more excited. I actually think I might have done a good idea. Sheep gets like too much hate for like don't be a sheep. It's like sheep.

Like wild sheep are pretty cool. And always climbing and like. Yeah, I like sheep. Yeah. I don't know. I saw silly goose. I'm like, that's immediately going under Jeff's. And then, yeah, so I don't even know what the story is honestly about other than silly.

Me neither. Okay, great. Does anyone prefer to go first? Our listeners would think that I prefer to go first. But because of that, I'm not going to. Wes refuses. Yeah, I'm not going to go first. I can go first.

Hold on. With sheep, if they're like so and cool, why are wolves always trying to dress up like them? Food for thought, we can go to you, Jeff. That's a good point. It's not a good point. Well, we got one vote for and one against. Wes hate sheep. I'm not a huge fan of sheep.

Really? That's true. I wouldn't say I hate them, but like... Big horn sheep? Big horn sheep are cool. Yeah. Are they not sheep? But when someone says sheep, that's not what pops in your head.

You're not thinking of a big horn sheep. My best friend in high school did 4H, and I used to have to go to, like, the 4-H events and help feed her sheep and take care of them. and I second that they're not my favorite. No. Jesse told me today, oh, we should get a meat sheep is what she called it. So it's like a sheep that you raised for a year and then eat. And I know for a fact, that's not what would happen. Like, you would end up with a lifetime sheep.

Yeah, because they're so cool. You wouldn't be able to eat it. We don't need a lifetime pet sheep. It would be a lifetime pet sheep for like the next 10 years. How long do they live, do you know? Yeah, right. I don't know. A lifetime 10 year sheep.

Yeah, I will say my friend had like 25 of them, and I saw these sheep like every day. And every day they acted like they had never met, me or her, who they lived with. They're not a smart animal. Yeah, and they would trample us every time we would try to feed them. Like, it was just, yeah. We fought for our lives a few times in that sheep pen. So, okay, we're excluding all the sheep lovers, all five of them out there. I'm with them.

Okay, wait. Oh, so, Jeff, you're going first? Do you want me to go? Okay. Yeah. I got some more sheep thigh if you want. No, it's okay. Okay.

So this one's titled Goose Attacks. Hello. Hello. Hey. Hello. I absolutely love the podcast, so thank you for doing what you're doing and making my long road trips between jobs a little more interesting. You're very welcome.

Yeah. Oh, also, yeah, I didn't edit out all the love for us. So this is fun way. You're just like giving us admiration, which is great. Yeah, we need it. That's the best I've ever read a sentence, by the way, too. That was great. My name is Elena, and I'm an interpretive park ranger in the North Cascades National Park

this summer. So come say hi if you're in the area. What does that mean? Interp Rangers are like the interp Rangers are kind of the ones that just rove and do education and are like the rangers you'll bump into on like trails or boardwalks or around visitor centers. Are they like yelling at people or not normally? Sometimes.

Yeah. But that's not, they're not like law enforcement rangers. They're not going to arrest you, but they'll give you a stern talking to. But if you're getting too close to animals, they'll be like, knock it off. Yeah. I'm just kidding. You do have to listen to them. Anyway, that's not where our story is taking place today.

We're going to the White River National Forest in Colorado and more special. specifically the North Star Nature Preserve right outside of Aspen. Let's set the scene. It's early May and my friends and I have just finished our winter season working in Aspen, and the weather's been warm and sunny lately, so we decided to bust out the paddleboards and have a nice little float down the nature preserve before we all part ways for the summer season. The portion of the roaring Fork River we would go down is pretty close to the headwaters.

But we knew this water was fairly calm, and we knew we couldn't get off our paddleboards. inside the nature preserve anyway. Needless to say, we had no intention of getting in this ice cold water. Uh-oh. Something tells me they're getting this water. What do you think was? Yeah.

No. They didn't have any intention, so I'm going to say they don't. Yeah. Well, let's find out. Everything is going smoothly, and we're having a lot of fun telling jokes and sharing stories from our season. You see a lot of interesting characters in Aspen. We turn around, and this bend, there's a large male goose.

in the middle of the river. My friend who was born and raised in Aspen was in front, and when he saw the goose, he decided to splash water at him. This was really funny at the time because this man had been on countless outdoor adventures living in Aspen his whole life, and he thought a goose would be afraid of water, hilarious. And I would have to say, like for people picturing this, this is probably a Canada goose if they're in Aspen. That's got to be the species they're talking about.

Yeah. Are they afraid of water was? No, they're pretty, I mean, they like water. But I think if you splashed water at one, it would be like aggressive enough. It might scare it off still. So you don't find it hilarious. I don't think it was like a silly thing to do. Yeah, you think that would scare a goose off.

It could. Yeah. Sure. Well, let's see what happens. Once I looked up and saw what was happening, I realized that male goose was heading straight in my direction. I decided I'd stick close to the shore and give them plenty of space to go around me. What I did not realize was he was heading for the female goose who is sitting on her eggs next to shore. The same shore I decided to get close to.

Okay, I think it's time for some backstory regarding my relationship with geese. I am terrified of them. When I was about six years old, there were some geese living around the pond at my grandma's property. We would see them pretty often, and I often. always tried to keep our distance. However, the male goose had no intentions of keeping his distance and would often walk up to the cars in the driveway. He would see his reflection in the cars and start getting really angry and territorial. This was all fun in games until we needed to actually use the cars. We would come up with ways to get around him, like everybody getting in the car

on the passenger side or even one person running into the car and moving elsewhere to pick everyone else up. As you can imagine, this got very old, very fast. But that wasn't the final straw. One day I was playing on my little swing set as toddlers do, and this goose was eyeing me. I was alone, and there was my grandma cooking dinner and would periodically check on me through the window. She called to tell me dinner was ready, and then she saw the situation I was in. The goose was right next to the swing I was on, and there is no way he wasn't going to attack me as soon as I got off. I asked my grandma what I should do and she said I should make a run for it and she'd close the door behind me as soon as I got inside. I saw no problem with this plan because I was

six and afraid. I jumped off the swing and ran as fast as my little toddler legs would let me. Is a six year old a toddler? I was just thinking no. Yeah. A six year old's a kid like a kid. Like a that's like probably. She could have toddler legs though. A toddler's like two or three. She didn't say he's a daughter. You still measure five months by then. She's 17 months old. Her legs had to catch up with her. I was not fast enough. The goose ended up biting the back of my leg.

I still have a scar to this day. Wow. I eventually made it inside, scarred physically and emotionally. Later that evening, my grandpa ended up shooting and killing the geese for messing with this baby girl. That's East Texas for you, though. I'm glad we got that backstory. I didn't really.

Elaine's autobiography before recording me, so it's good to know. Yeah, you gave the slowest reader, like, the longest story, I think. Okay, we're back on the Roaring Fork. I'm having fun now. We're back on the Roaring Fork River in Colorado, and I'm 24 now, still deathly afraid of geese. I heard the hissing from the female goose behind me, and that's why I realized what was happening. I was too close to the female and the eggs, and the male goose was coming to defend them. I feel like it's always the person who's most afraid who puts himself in like the worst situation and all of these.

I was too close to the female and the eggs and the male goose was coming to defend them. I wish I could say I was able to just paddle away from them and everything was okay. But this is not the case. The female goose was within arm's reach of me and at this point she stood up, wings open, ready to attack. So what did I do? I threw my paddle at her. I missed. And I jumped into the river, the freezing river.

The one geese can very easily swim in. This reaction was not very park ranger of me, but I was pretty sure I blacked out, and this was purely instinct. I swam over to my other friend and hopped on her paddleboard, fully panicking and cold. What I did not realize at the time, but my friends told me later was that when I was paying attention to the female goose, the male goose was already lunging at me from behind. So she's getting at, like, a bosser a after. If I would have stayed on the paddle board for even a second longer, he would have bitten me.

So maybe my instincts were on the right side this time. Who knows? I made our friend who was flashing the geese in the beginning, go retrieve my paddle and my board. He was not thrilled, but ended up getting them successfully. The sun had just fallen behind the mountains, so it was getting cold fast, especially since I was wet. Luckily, we were close to the end, and I just tried to get to the car as fast as we could. I'm still traumatized, but at least I didn't get bit this time. They have teeth, right, Wes?

Like little... So, they have what's called conical papillet. Okay. And it's like, they're made of carotin, and they look like teeth, but they're not as hard or as sharp as teeth are. And it's just for like tearing up vegetation. So it's not... Their bites aren't that bad. Because she did say she still has a scar from one.

I just trying to... Yeah. I wonder, yeah. I wonder if the scar is from, because what they can do is like bite and kind of tear away. And that could like maybe open your skin. But from like everything I have seen and heard from people that own geese, it's more like a pressure bite than it is like a ripping, tearing bite. Okay. So you don't usually like have your skin getting broken or anything like that.

Okay. Maybe like a kid has soft skin or something. Yeah. Because she was a toddler. Yeah. Yeah. And then it finishes. I do feel that Canadian geese.

often get a bad rep for situations like this, even though this was fully my fault. I don't know if it's fully her fault. It was the guy's fault. Yeah, he was someone who splashed and started this whole thing. Yeah. I mean, the goose did go straight out. I do love all animals. Maybe geese just a little less. But I realized they have their own instincts, and I was just in the line of fire.

I'm not sure if this will make it onto the podcast. I think it will. It did. Yeah. We'll see you. We'll see. Thank you for making it. We'll see.

Thank you for taking the time to read my story. Enjoy the view, but watch your back because there might be a goose attacking you. Jeff, that was some great reading. Yeah. Yeah. Good story, Elena. I got a little burnt out by the end. No. You're like, I got to go first.

Honestly, 10 out of 10. I'm going to fade fast. Gotta go lay down, take a break. I think it's fine to like hate a few types of animals. Sure. Because if you love all. animals then like the really good animals don't get it's like they're mixed in with the ones you don't that's my that's my problem everyone's always like you say every animal is your favorite animal we did we did a goose

subscriber episode and i just want to say they are like it's an intimidation animal it's not there's no like real danger from geese a lot of people are afraid of geese and there's those videos of them like flying at people and people stumbling over themselves to get away from them i think your risk is so much higher getting hurt running from a goose than just like standing your ground and kind of taking whatever it is going to try and give you. That's just my two cents. I mean, they do a great job of intimidating because I, yeah, I don't know if I've ever been like, I don't know, maybe I have been attacked by a goose or whatever, but they do a great job. They do. But if you stand your ground, like, it's probably going to stop. And even if it doesn't, all it's going to do is like hit you

with its wings and maybe nip at you, and it's going to feel like absolutely nothing. But if you run in a panic, you might break your ankle or like run into a car or who knows. Okay. It is hard to just like not react. Or like not react to window. Yeah. It is hard. When I was in Guatemala as like a Mormon missionary, there's this little house that had

just the biggest goose ever. And it would like always try to bite me when I was walking up the stairs. I could have easily fallen down the stairs. Domestic goose are different too because they're like super habituated and can be a lot meaner. What about swans? I've heard that swans are really mean. Yeah, it's the same thing though. Like it's not actually going to hurt you.

You're going to get a lot more hurt running from it than you would just like handling it. So just stand your ground. Yeah. Yeah. They have such karate choppable throats. That's what I do. Perfect. for a chalk.

Not like advocating animal violence, but if it comes to it, it's bluster though. I'll keep that in mind next time I get chased by. I don't know. We went, the last thing we were chased by were wild horses and Cassie freaked me the fuck out. I was so afraid. They chased you? Well, that could kill you. They weren't chasing us.

They were walking quickly behind us. And Cassie, literally. It was a huge male. I'd be nervous. That was falling very close behind. It wasn't chasing us, but it was following us very closely, and I was walking very fast. She ended up running away. I didn't run.

I walked fast. You almost, I had to jog, and then you went through a fence, and I was like, I think I should used to it. Running from ungulates isn't a terrible idea, though. Sometimes they just want you, like, away from them. It's predators you don't want to run from, but, and then also don't run from a goose. I just want everyone out there just to picture yourself not running from a goose and just do that over and that way when one finally flies at you. I can't do it less. I can't imagine

running. It is true. Practice trained for it. When it happens to you, you'll be ready. If you really think it out, like what's the worst thing that's going to happen to you if you just stand there? Yeah. It's not going to be bad. How about bear spray? Blast a goose in the face with some bear spray. That would work. Let me show you guys, this is the worst thing that can happen to you. Can you guys see that? Oh, man, I don't want that. I don't think it'll let me zoom in on it.

You can't even see it. That's what a goose bite looks like. But what if you're a toddler? Yeah. Yeah. If you have a little toddler legs, then I don't. I feel like Elena needs to defend herself now and send in a picture of her scar. And then you can be a judge.

I don't. And like I don't blame anyone for being afraid of a goose coming at them because I've seen grizzly bears run from geese. Like they can be very intimidating. But I just want people to focus on you don't need to be intimidated. Okay. All right. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L. Every year after, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

Well, I can go next, I guess. Let's hear it. Let's go. Mine is titled The Unexpected Company, A Thrilling Trip to the Outhouse. Oh. Yeah. They're always thrilling.

Mike had a thrilling trip to the outhouse recently. Oh, yeah. Every day a new adventure. Do you care to share or do you want me to? No. Okay. Do you care to let me share? Maybe.

Yeah. Let's get through this one first. We'll paywall that story if you guys want to hear that. Okay, yeah. It'll be on tooth and claws Patreon. Okay. Hi, ladies, long time listener here. When I had a chilling encounter with an animal this weekend, I knew I had to send in my

tale. I'm from Lethbridge, Alberta, and the story takes place at my grandma's cabin out on some land near Cardston, Alberta, also near Waterton Lakes National Park. My husband, brother, cousin, and I decided to do a quick, overnighter at the cabin last weekend. By the time we started driving out there, it was starting to get dark. The cabin is located quite literally in the middle of nowhere, down multiple dirt roads off the highway and through multiple barbed wire fences to keep animals out. In the winter, we usually have to hike in due to the massive snow drifts on these back roads. This trip, we didn't expect too much snow,

so we decided to drive the truck all the way up to the cabin. As we were making the trip in, we plowed through a couple small drifts of snow, but nothing major. As we turned a corner, we saw a huge patch of snow but thought we could still make it. My cousin was driving, hit the gas, and plowed through, but we quickly realized how deep the snow actually was. The truck high centered, and after a good 30 minutes of trying to dig it out, it became clear it was stuck in the nearly four feet of powder. Oh, no. I'm like, what? I also don't know when this was sent in because we're, it's 80 degrees here, and I know there's snow up there still, but I don't know. We weren't worried, though. My aunt was planning on coming out to the cabin the following day, so we planned on calling her in the morning.

to bring some gear to pull us out with her truck. We grabbed all our gear and made the short hike into the cabin. Once there, we got settled and sat around a bonfire for a couple hours. Around midnight, we decided to head in for the evening. The boys started grabbing some firewood to keep the fire going inside for the night, and I decided to make a quick trip to the outhouse before bed. The outhouse is located about 30 meters behind the cabin down a short trail through the trees. As a child, I was always spooked by this trail,

having to leave the safety and light of the cabin and wander into the cabin. the dark forest alone, which I think built character. If you never have had to do that, it's why you're sensitive, you know. Yeah. It's why all the problems in this country exist. So it's why you're afraid of geese. Right. Sorry, that's mean. I feel like I'm being too mean to listen. Yeah, stop picking on her. I had a headlamp on, but the batteries were dying and the light was very dim, so I grabbed a bright flashlight at the last minute. I walked down the trail, open the outhouse door, checking for any bats or little critters that have sometimes gotten in before, all clear, so I shut the door behind me. I open the toilet lid and my flashlight shines

onto the face of a huge animal staring right back at me, only about two feet away from my flashlight. What? All I could see before I slammed the toilet lit down in a panic were two huge green eyes, a very large head, much bigger than mine, with brown fur and a small snout. Big foot. It's got to be, right? Yeah. What else gonna be? A black bear.

I stood there completely frozen, trying to figure out what to do. It was big enough that the only thing it could be was a bear or a cougar. I couldn't get a good enough look to tell for sure. I figured a bear couldn't possibly fit under the outhouse, so it was probably a cougar. There's a decent size hole in the ground at the base of the side of this outhouse to scoop out the, you know what, which was how the animal got in. I was trying to hear if it had left or was still underneath me, but it was completely silent. Adrenaline was coursing through my body and all I could hear was my heartbeat pounding in my ears as I stood there motionless clutching my flashlight. It's like just walk out of there.

Like why are you still standing in there? I don't know if there's that hole that it can come in and out. Maybe she's worried if she leaves. Oh yeah, like it's not going to come out the toilet maybe. Yeah. I honestly think it's a little rude to not just go to the bathroom anyway. that bear obviously is waiting for you to mouth open.

Give it some food or whatever. Oh, my God. Oh, good. Okay. Oh, I guess I could have just read one more sentence. I figured if it was a cougar and it had slinked out from under the outhouse, it's possible it could pounce on me if I ran back to the cabin. I dreadfully remembered that our truck was completely stuck and we have no way out and have very patchy cell service. If I had gotten hurt, it would be a very dangerous situation.

I felt safe in the outhouse with the door locked behind. me but felt a rush of terror course through me, realizing a huge animal was right underneath me and could easily do some damage to me once I opened the door, which I would have to do eventually. There was a small mesh window on the outhouse door, and I peered through it trying to spot the predator but could see nothing. I knew lots of safety tips on what to do if it was a bear, but I wasn't so sure if it was a cougar. Should I just book it back to the cabin? Should I scream for help and be big and loud? The boys had finished gathering what at this point and we were and were inside the cabin.

I knew my husband would come out eventually to see what was taking me so long, but I didn't want him to get too close if the animal was out there waiting. She's usually in there for 45 minutes, but it's more like an hour. I thought I had only been there for a few minutes, but later learned it had been closer to 20 of me just literally standing there, completely frozen. I saw someone come out of the cabin in the distance, and a light started walking towards me.

Not wanting to risk someone else's life if this animal was out there waiting, I figured now was my chance. I fling open the outhouse door and sprint through the snow towards the cabin, not looking back. I flew past my husband, who was confused and asked,

are you okay? I said, no, get in the cabin quick. Once safe inside, I explained to everyone what I saw, and we were all trying to figure out what it was. Are you sure it wasn't just a raccoon? My husband asked, I would the way, I would.

I'm like, don't gaslight me right now. But she doesn't know what it was. Yeah, but she just described like a huge animal. And then a raccoon face in a toilet is going to be like this big, right? They are pretty recognizable to you. Yeah. He's like, are you sure it wasn't a mouse? I couldn't say for sure what I saw, but I knew it was much bigger than a raccoon.

It's a bearer or cougar. I told him confidence. My heart finally stopped racing for some time, and we all drift off to sleep. In the morning, we all decided to go out to the outhouse and check for any scat or tracks, not having anything to protect us like a gun or bear spray. We made use of what we had, which were hot dog sticks and a hatchet. Are not a hot dog sticks? Like, very thin. It depends on how big the hot dogs are here. That's right. Or are they metal? I'm thinking of just like, I guess, I don't know. I think you could have metal ones.

I wouldn't feel at all confident with a hot dog stick if there's a bear in an outhouse. So, yeah. I stood back at the start of the trail too scared to get any closer, watching as the boy slowly walked up to the outhouse and opened the door. My husband shouted out to me that the hole on the side of the outhouse was much larger than it was the last time he had seen it. My cousin slowly opened the toilet lid with the hot dog stick he was wielding and with a flashlight in the other hand peered inside. We didn't expect whatever it was to still be in there, but after several long seconds, I heard my cousin say, holy frick, bro, it's a bear. Who says frick?

Holy frick, it's a bear. Did he just call his wife, bro? No, it was her, the cousin. Oh, okay. Fell off there a little. Yeah, that would be travesty. This approximately 300-pound bear had made the cozy underside of our outhouse into a den for the winter. He had dug deep down into the ground and made it bigger, along with the opening on the side that

could now accommodate him to go in and out. The bear was completely silent once again, unbothered by the shocked faces peering down at him. The boys came running back to the cabin, all shocked to see the unknown animal I saw just feet away from me last night, was indeed a massive bear. We left shortly after that, after another one of my cousins came out to pull out our truck. He also wanted to take a peek at the bear, and when he peered into the toilet, he said, yep, that right there's a bear and the crapper all right. That's what Mike would say.

I don't talk like that. I never said anyone close to that in my life. Crapper? Who says crapper? I feel like you would do like your spangled-toot boar cat. I wish I guess. If I'm putting on. Okay.

What's that? It's an animal Mike made up, but he says it so confidently that people constantly wonder if it's a real animal. I can't I lived in Georgia for a few years so sometimes I put a little twang in the voice when I'm talking about the spangled tooth boar cats Gotcha Hopefully the bear just moves on once the warmer weather hits But we will definitely need to seal up that huge hole it dug on the side of the outhouse to prevent our furry friend from setting up camp next winter

Needless to say I now have a serious fear of outhouses and will be squatting in the trees from now on Thank you for listening I absolutely love the podcast and I'm thrilled to have my very own trail tip to tell from now on. I feel like that's probably one of the worst case scenarios for what's in the toilet. It happens more than you might think too. Like, there's a few stories of people getting bit while they're like going to the bathroom

and out houses by black bears. Do you think that it was so kind of docile and unbothered because it was in some sort of hibernation or what? I don't know. I have a hard time. Like, it could have been hibernating. Yeah, it just.

started raining. I heard you like mute it and then just bring it right back. You can hear it right now. It's ambience. Yeah. Shoot. Sorry. It just started pouring.

It seems like it's going to be really quick though. But sorry, it's raining a little bit on my end. But yeah, I have a hard time believing that it was like fully hibernating in there. But they will sometimes eat human excrement. Just like when food is hard to find, they'll go into outhouses and like eat some of our shit. And that's my guess is it was just in there, like, trying to get a easy winter meal. Sometimes Black Bears will wake up from hibernation and just look for food. And I probably found the outhouse and was like, oh, yeah, I'll just dig into here for a little bit. It's

possible it was hibernating in there if it's like not an outhouse that sees a lot of use. But I kind of think it was probably just looking for some food. Where its head was like out of the hole, right when she lifted the lid up. Yeah. I feel like it wasn't like groggy or anything. is kind of like alert. They can come out of their hibernation pretty quickly. Like it doesn't take long for, we call them very efficient hibernators because they can come out of it within a matter of minutes. But I agree with Jeff, it would take it a little bit longer to not be groggy

and like be that kind of reactive. So I don't, I tend to think this one wasn't fully hibernator. Yeah, it's kind of lucky for her that its head was like right in the hole. Because I feel like you don't like want to look down. Yeah. The outhouse before you go to the bathroom. Yeah. Right?

That's true. It could have bitter. Yeah. I like imagining this listener at like Coachella or something where there's just rows and rows of outhouses just freaked out of their mind. She's like, I can't go back. Serious fear of outhouses. I can't go to Bonaroo this year.

There's too many of them. They have a reoccurring dream where an outhouse is chasing them around the kitchen table in socks. I know it's not technically an outhouse, but. Remember that movie? It was like the Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, but it was in India. Oh, yeah, slumdog? Yeah. Slumdog Millionaire.

Oh, yeah. That scene that he like goes into all the shit at the bottom of the outhouse to like retrieve. I have been changed after seeing that scene. I hate outhouses. And I know it's nothing like that. But it makes me like I could probably throw up right now even thinking about it. Something about human shit is just it sends me somewhere else.

So it affected you negative. Like you don't know that scene. Okay. Yeah. I too have a fear of outhouses from slumdog millionaire. But what if I just fall in? Right. Yeah.

I'd have to go in there for something, you know? Yeah. If you like dropped your phone in there, would you just be like I'm getting in the phone? For sure. A bear probably like drops their phone on purpose in the shit. And it's like, oops. Got to go back in the shit. Shit. Oh my God. Okay. Well, who's up?

Wes left. Me? What do you want to do? Mike, I think you. Why don't you go? Sorry, it's, it hasn't rained in weeks here. And then suddenly there's just like a thunderstorm. It was bright blue skies when we started recording. Oh, it's a blessing. I'll just mute for like another five minutes, but it seems like it's about to pass. Okay, I'll go then. So the title of this story is bored no more. B-O-A-R- apostrophe D. A little teaser for what animal we're talking about there, Jeff.

You can take a guess. Hi, ladies. Love the podcast. Boy, do I have a trail tale for you? That's probably they're talking to me there when they say, boy. Do I have a trail tale for you? I've always been a fan of solo hikes. There's something about being alone in nature, just you in the trees,

that makes you feel like you've discovered a hidden part of yourself. That's why I found myself alone one day in Titusville, Florida, standing at the entrance of the Enchanted Forest Sanctuary. It sounds magical. Ready to tackle what was supposed to be a peaceful, serene hike. You know what can go wrong in the enchanted forest? Everything was perfect until it wasn't. The trail wound through thick palms and cypress trees, the sounds of distant birds and rustling leaves creating a calming atmosphere.

I was in my element, taking slow, deliberate steps, feeling like a rugged adventure, ready to conquer the wild. The air was thick with humidity, the kind of sticky, swampy air that you only get in Florida. But I didn't mind. I was in my zone. That's when I heard it. A low grunting noise coming from the trees behind me. I turned just in time to see a large snorty. wild boar emerged from the underbrush.

Now, I've seen my fair share of wildlife in Florida, gators, raccoons, squirrels that looked like they've been hitting the gym, but this was different. I didn't expect that last part. Often go to the gym. This bore was built like a linebacker on steroids, and she was staring right at me. I froze.

I'd heard stories about wild boars in these parts, how they could be aggressive, how they wouldn't hesitate to charge if they felt threatened. But surely, I thought, This is some kind of Disney-like encounter where the wild animal would just take a sniff and move on. Not this bore, not this movie. She snorted again, louder this time, and turned her head to reveal something that made my stomach drop. What do you think?

What do you think she saw behind this bore, Jeff? It's enchanted, right? Yeah. Probably. So it could be anything. Yeah. Like a witch? Yeah, probably.

Well, let me keep reading. A witch and her bore. Yeah, right. We are in Florida, so anything's possible. Right. Yeah, a bundle of math. In the bushes behind her were a handful of tiny wriggling baby boars. Baby boars. Cute, right? Until you realize the mama boar is standing between you and the exit. Suddenly, the baby boars weren't so adorable. I did what any sensible person would do in that situation. I panicked. I panicked in a very dignified, composed way, of course, but still, it was panic.

My first instinct was to slowly back away, trying not to make eye contact like I was some kind of boar whisper who understood the delicate balance of nature. Unfortunately, Mama Boy didn't get the memo. It's like my toxic trait is thinking that every animal will pick up on my good vibes and not attack me. So far so good, right? Right, yeah. Maybe, yeah, maybe.

Except for that horse. That wasn't my fault. I was not alone. And I have a video of that horse and it's legitimately just walking behind us. They didn't start walking. until we walked past it is probably my eyes. That's how it starts though. You know, it's got to start somehow.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you have some alfalfa in your pocket or something? I'm not trying to victim blame, but. Well, we didn't do our research. We had no idea we were, this is actually not a good, it's bad for the brand, but we didn't do any research into where we were going and we were shocked that horses were even there. We had no idea of wild horses were even present.

We Googled, are there wild horses here? After we saw horses. After we were already there. Yeah. That's cool. You had to wait. Are there wild horses here? There's a horse behind you.

Well, we didn't know if they were like, I don't know. We were going through everything. I kept saying they were wild, but they were like, oh, I think a few people were like, I think they just let their horses roam free here because we were in Patagonia. And I was like, I feel like these are wild. And she was right. That's cool. Yeah.

Anyway, the bore. Okay. The bore took one step toward me. Her beady eyes locked onto mine. I tried to keep calm, but my body was betraying me. My heart was pounding like it was trying to escape through my rib cage, and my legs were moving in tiny nervous shuffles that felt more like a bad imitation of a moonwalk than an actual retreat.

To actually moonwalk would be sweet. Like Nick Miller and New Girl when he gets in like a situation he doesn't want to be in. He just moonwalks out. The bore would be dumbfounded. Then came the grunt, the kind of grunt that sends chills down your spine because you know it's followed by a full-on sprint. I didn't have time to think. I turned and started running.

Now I'm no sprinter by any means, but I figured if I could make it back to the entrance, I could wave down a ranger or at least find a tree to climb because, you know, wild boars can't climb trees, right? Wes? That's true. They can't climb trees. It would be a good place to go if you're chased by a boar.

Yeah. Shakira should have. Was it Shakira who got attacked by a boar? Yeah, she should have died. Shakur's been attacked by like three animals. It's wild. Keep featuring Shakira in our stories. Her vibes aren't great.

We should get her on the show. Bad vibes. Yeah. I'm not, Shakira, if you're listening, I like your vibes. Just putting it out there. I glanced over my shoulder and saw her charging after me. Back to the story. This is the, not me.

This is not editorializing by Mike. This is the story. Or Shakira. Right. Neither one of us, too. I glanced over my shoulder and saw her charging after me. Oh, God, this is it, I thought. I'm going to be the person who gets mauled by a wild boar in Florida and ends up as a cautionary tale on the show.

I took a sharp turn around a tree and dove behind it, hoping she would lose sight of me. But as Faye would have it, the tree was not large enough to hide behind completely, and I could hear the boar's hooves getting closer. I imagine just like doing the sideways stand and you're like not quite thin enough to be in, like behind a little. Like half your body is still. Yeah. But as fate would have it, the tree was not large enough to hide behind completely, and I could hear the boars hoes getting closer.

It was like a chase scene from an action movie, except instead of dramatic soundtrack, All I heard was my own panicked breathing and the rapid thumping of her hooves. Then, just as I thought I was done for. Man, really feeling bad in this situation. Then, just as when I thought I was done for, something really unexpected happened. A small family of raccoons appeared further down the trail, waddling along without a care in the world. Oh, no.

Oh, yeah. The mama bore, distracted by the presence of the little trash pandas, screeched to a halt. Wow. For a moment, it was like time froze. I could see the raccoons looking at the boar, The boar looking at the raccoons and then me still crouched behind the tree, trying to decide if I should make a run for it or just stay put and hope the universe threw me a bone.

Thankfully, the raccoons who were clearly far more experienced in the art of distracting wild boars than I, waddled past the mama boar without a second glance. The boar still grunting turned and decided to return to her babies, completely ignoring you. This is a really funny mental image. This is giving me. I waited another five minutes behind that tree before I dared to move. When I finally stood up, my legs were like jelly, and I felt a surge of relief. that bordered on euphoria.

I'd survived. As I slowly walked back to the entrance, now to much more leisurely pace, mind you, I couldn't help but laugh at myself. Here I was, a seasoned hiker nearly taken out by a boar who I thought was getting too close to her precious piglets. I can't say I'll never solo hike again, because let's be real,

but I will be sure to keep a respectful distance from any wild boar families I come across in the future. Thanks again for creating the best podcast. Keep up the good work, ladies. Aiden. P.S. If you guys are ever in Central Florida, I own a restaurant called Sandbar in Satellite Beach, Florida, and would love to buy y'all lunch. Got great fish tacos. Oh, boy tacos.

Exclusively boar tacos. That's crazy. Like, yeah, the raccoons came out, and the boar was just like, I'm kind of confused now. The raccoons just walked through, like, without acknowledging either the boar or Aiden. That's amazing. And when the board was like, I forgot. I forgot what I was doing. Yeah.

Cute. Very relatable. Yeah. I mean, they were in an enchanted forest. That seems like an enchanted encounter. Yeah. That's true. Very true.

I will say with bears, like, they, when a bear gets antagonized and it, like, wants to charge someone, they get, like, laser focused on one target. And a good way to stop it is to, like, have other people, you know, be, like, making noise and kind of trying to give it multiple targets. And so I wonder if that's kind of what happened with this bore where it was focused on this person. But then the raccoon coming out, distracted it enough to where it was like, oh, too many things happening. So it just decided to bail. Yeah. So maybe distraction was way too much. If you're at bear or bore country, just take a raccoon along with you. Deploy it in case of an emergency. Just toss it out. It's the deterrent

we really recommend is having a raccoon. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think aren't Don't wild boars actually do attack quite a number of people every year? I think that happens fairly often, yeah. On our news episodes, we often come across bore attacks. Mike always covers them. Oh, yeah. Their tusks are like super sharp. Like, they can do real damage.

Yeah. And they can get huge. If anyone's curious how big they can get, there's pictures out there where a boar is just like weighing down the back half of a truck, just like almost tipping it on its back wheels. Hogzilla? It's crazy. Yeah.

Hogzilla. They're always named Hogzilla every time you see those. Yeah. I feel like we don't have the problem with it that some other countries do. We definitely have a lot of feral pigs, but as far as them, like, attacking people. But I don't think we're that far from it either. I don't think I've ever seen one. I've never seen one either.

It's mostly in the South. I think the South is where they have by far the biggest issues with them. Well, when we go to the, what? Was it? Enchanted forest. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

For fish tanked. Chances forest. Yeah. Maybe we'll have a moment. Well, moving on to the next story. I can tell one. Oh, about the sheep. Yes, we're on to the sheep.

I like sheep. I'm excited. We'll find out if we all like sheep after this story. They are. Okay. Yeah, I'll reserve judgment. This one is titled Counting Rocky Mountain Big Horned sheep Jumping Over the Moon.

or over me. Hi, Cassie and Danielle. Thanks for letting me write in. My name is Caroline, and I heard about your podcast originally when y'all did a collab with Ash and Elena on Morbid. I proceeded to listen to all of your previous episodes and have been keeping up with every episode since. I love how you tailor so many of your stories to the macabre crimes in the outdoors and mysteries in the wilderness. I love to solo hike and backpack with my dog Lucy, so it might be counterintuitive to listen to creepy tales while alone on the trails, but y'all have kept my years company on many a long trek around the country. Keep up the good work, digging up interesting stories and bringing awareness to lesser known incidents and advocating for trail safety, awareness,

and intuition. I'm actually writing this after being inspired by Trail Tales 50 that featured some adorably smart dogs. Well, thanks for letting me gush over y'all, and I may actually pass out if you read my story on the pod. Put some pillows under her quick. When COVID hit in 2000, and everyone's world was turned upside down, I had just graduated undergrad online during lockdown with my Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Science pre-med when I decided to take gap years to work as a travel health care provider in 2021. My job as an EMT transitioned from transports to emergency vaccine administration to disaster response, think hurricanes, floods, natural disasters, etc. And then to a wildland fire medic. These adventures ultimately spurred my newfound passion, for traveling, hiking, camping, and exploring this beautiful earth. I've since explored beautiful backcountry and parks across the U.S. I'm pretty introverted, so solo hiking and social distancing

became super appealing. But when I can, and it's permitted on trails, I always try to let my rescue dog Lucy tag along. I adopted her in Colorado during a vaccine contract, and she's been my partner in crime ever since, helping me through mental health struggles, getting my master's degree in nursing, and of course, all of our outdoor activities. She's in Australia. She's an Austrian Australian shepherds slash border collie mix, who has always had way too much energy for her own good. Australian shepherds and sheep don't get along, do they? Aren't they always trying to hurt them? Oh, good call.

Yeah. Oh, we, now I see what this is going. So letting her roam the trails with a special beeper, collar, or leash helps her enjoy life, keep me company, and stay safe in the wilderness. Rewind to our third cross-country trip in 2022. We were on our way back to California, crammed in my compact car after expeditions to the Teton's glacier, as well as various forests in both Montana and Wyoming. This particular expedition was on Booth Creek and turned out to make my top five favorite hikes of all time. Honestly, you can't go wrong on a PNW hike with an Alpine Lake or two to make everything seem okay in the world. It's a pretty highly rated and popular trail and veil, but to paint a picture, it's about a nine mile out and back trail dotted with babbling streams,

a mild scramble of small boulders and rolling meadows emerging after patches of lightly wooded areas. Copious wildflowers, blanket valleys of green grass, and lush terrain up until you get to Booth Lake. At a 3,000 elevation gain, the lake is gorgeous and inviting, especially to my hot and panting doggo. After making sure Lucy's beeper color was on and secure, I let her take a swim and run along the shore of the lake. I stayed atop a boulder for full view of the landscape, and I could keep an eye on her as I rehydrated and munch some. carrots and powdered peanut butter. Don't knock it till you try it. Wait, what is it? How do you consume that? You snort it? It gets to your bloodstream a lot quicker if you see it. Lines of powdered peanut butter. Don't knock it till you try it. I guess I won't.

So apparently as I was rummaging through my pack for my water bottle and snack, Lucy heard something. Now this is usually super helpful if we're on a trail alone and it's kind of sketch, but there was literally nobody around or coming up behind us that I saw at the trailhead or at any point on the trail this far. But when I looked up, she had bolted. I saw a brief flash of black as she shot sprinting through the grassy brush at at least 50 meters and several boulders below me. I called out to her but lost sight of her again. Being the astute herding dog she is, when she sets her mind on chasing something, it's tunnel vision all around. I like to think it's just her animal instinct to herd rather than a blatant disregard for me calling her.

Although she does have a history of taking off right after I rescued her that I chucked up to possibly being a traumatic past. However, since then, she would always come back when I called her. I gave it a few seconds more until I stood up and scoured the terrain where I had last seen her. Finally, I spotted her sprinting below me back towards the boulder I was on. Not five seconds later, I see a massive, and I mean massive, Rocky Mountain, big horn sheep, barreling straight towards me. There were some sprouting pine trees and some brush between the cracks and the adjacent boulders that could have offered a slight diversion. Being a six-foot-tall girl, though, I had literally two seconds to figure out how to either hide my body or straight-up dodge a 500-pound beast with horns hurtling towards me at top speed with my dog chasing in quick pursuit. So, as my life flashed before my eyes, I plastered myself as flat as possible to the ground and covered my head and neck as best as the beast leaped over.

me. Wow. The vision of that. Just like looking up. It's a great mental image. Dude, big numbers on Instagram if you record it. It would. Try and recreate this.

I could feel the wind swish over my legs as the sheep careened over me down the boulder and began scaling the adjacent mountains rock face. And of course, lagging in distance, but not in spirit. was Lucy, who proceeded. Oh, that's sweet. That is really sweet. Who proceeded to wholeheartedly channel her inner sheep energy and continue to pursue the animal.

Let me tell you, I don't think my heart has raced that fast, nor have I seen a domestic dog sprint that fast in my life. So wait, Lucy didn't hurtle the body. Yeah, I wanted the dog to jump over to you. That's what I was envisioning. It was the sheep, and then seconds later it was her dog. shortly after I lost sight of both of them. Still spinning from fear but high on adrenaline, I grabbed my pack,

Lucy's beeper linked to her collar and started sprinting down the rocks back to the trail where it picked up in the valley below. Unfortunately, even after several minutes of whistling, pressing her beeper and calling her name, Lucy and the sheep were nowhere to be seen. This wasn't the first time she'd taken off on the trail, but again, she always found her way back. I don't know if she was just too excited to be back in her home state of Colorado where I adopted her or if it was road trip jitters. But I really thought this time she just wasn't coming back. No, must be it.

She's like, I can tell him in Colorado. Like home sweet home. I'm free. I'm out of here. Had nothing to do with prey drive and like, yeah. I thought she was from, I thought Lucy was Australian. Are you get that wrong? Australian Shepherd, I think.

Okay. Close. Dejected. and crashing from the intense adrenaline rush, I started making my way back down the trail, through the valley, clapping as I went and hoped she would hear it echoing between the mountains. After what seemed like at least five to ten minutes later, to my absolute relief, I heard rapid, heavy panting from behind me. I whipped around and there she was, happily trotting, tongue lolling as she came to be reunited

with me. We finished the trail together and made it back to the trailhead safely. We only ever saw one or two other hikers too, and thank goodness because I, I feel like I definitely look like a real noob clapping and yelling to an imaginary companion named Lucy. Since then, I think they probably got that you were calling for your dog. I think they got it. It'd be real crazy if you didn't put that together.

Since then, I've kept a closer restraint on her, especially in areas where there have been recent animal sightings. I know how important it is to respect nature and the local inhabitants, and I've gained better perspective on what trails to bring Lucy on. I am actually headed to solo backpack near Yosemite, John Muir, Inyo National Forest in the next few days before starting my first ever nursing job. And I'll definitely be saving and downloading the newest episodes of NPAD to enjoy during my tracks. Lucy won't be there, but I'm counting on y'all to keep me company. Well, ladies, thanks for reading. I hope you enjoyed this tale. And if you all ever want to know

how my dumb ass handled encountering a grizzly in the backcountry of Montana without bear spray, I'd be happy to share that embarrassing escapade as well. Until then, stay adventurous and watch your back, Caroline and Lucy. You should send that into tooth and claw, I feel like. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, I think it's kind of crazy you sent the sheep story in before the grizzly bear story. She got hurtled by it. That's true.

This is pretty remarkable. Bears usually don't hurtle people like that. Not usually. That would be a view. I just can't help to think of all the places for that sheep to be. You had to go over me like this much space. I mean like what? Yeah, go around.

Yeah, go around. Yeah, come around. Like, once you find your dog again, because she kind of thought maybe she lost Lucy for a sec. So, like, I feel like once you're reunited, you're just so happy you would like pet her and be like, oh. And like, and then you kind of make her feel like she was a good dog for all of that. Yeah. I've been guilty of that. I'm so happy to see you.

Yeah. And then it's Lucy's just like, oh, yeah, she'd love. love that. She loved that. I chase that. I've been in that situation with my my dog blue many times and then I would immediately get mad. It's like I'm so happy to see you but I'm also pissed at you. And then I would also I would always be yelling his name similar to you know her saying Lucy but I would be yelling blue come and then I would just say it so much. I'm like I feel like I'm just saying blue come like screaming it out. See that one I would think like this

Maybe there's something wrong with this person I'd be like maybe I can help Oh god yeah well I will say like recently in the news there's been a lot of stuff in Colorado with moose and people like their dogs antagonizing moose and then bringing them back to the person And then the moose you know kicks or tramples the person and that can happen with a lot of animals. So it is like you're taking a risk if your dog's off leash around wild animals. There's a chance that it's going to make something really angry and then bring it back to you.

So yeah, it's just, it's something we talk about a lot with bears too. That feels like revenge of your dog. That is a crazy joke by Mike. Sorry. Sorry, I was hung up on what Mike sends. I didn't mean to interrupt. What were you saying, Cassie? I was saying I feel like that's a revenge of the dog. Like you do something to your dog that it doesn't like and then it brings a moose to attack you.

Like you're not going to give me your scraps, huh? Here's a moose. Yeah. So my mentor right now is writing a paper on dogs and bears and how they interact. And the safety messaging is really changing around them because we used to kind of say, oh, a dog can be a good deterrent for bears. And I think more and more we're learning that they have. actually antagonize much more than they deter.

Interesting. You got to be, especially off leash. Yeah, that's really interesting. We have a ton of black bears in my neighbor. I just saw one yesterday, actually. And now that it's like the season that they're especially up around me, the dogs, we used to go for all these walks. And now, because we have two of them, I'm like, let's stay in the yard a little bit more

than we normally would because I just don't know. We grew up. Me and Jeff had a black lab growing up. And she was like so passive and didn't bar. at anything. Like we constantly had deer in the yard. They didn't bother or whatever. And then we were with her once and when she saw a black bear and she lost her mind, like was just barking and snarling and growling. There's just like an enmity there that is deep seated. And sometimes dogs will really go hard when they see a bear. Yeah, we have a black lab shepherd mix and he hates bears. He's come

across him a couple times. Once when we were camping, he treat a bear. And another time, what actually two different times. He saw them from the car when they were off the road and he immediately snarling, growling, like lunging at the window. And we're in the car, we didn't even see the bear one of the times at first and we're like, what is happening? And we look and there's just one dipping off the side of the road into the woods. Yeah. Like, oh, you really don't like bears. Yeah. And they can do it with sheep too. I guess so. All right. Do you guys want me to go? I think you're the last one up. What if we're just like, no. We're going. Good, let's go on to questions.

No, we're good, Wes. Before I go, I will have to say, I want to apologize to our goose victim because I think we were a little dismissive. And I did find some more photos that looked a lot worse than the one I shared with like some bruising and a little bit of torn skin. So they definitely could have a scar. Especially it's a six-year-old like toddler. Yeah, it's a tiny, tiny baby toddler. Yeah. We apologize.

You just apologized. Now you ruined it. Oh, I can't help myself. All right. Okay, this one is called Don't Put Bleach on it. Hello, ladies, love you both, love the pod. Let's get into it. I've been sitting on this one for a while now.

This happened in March 2021, almost four years ago to the day that I'm writing this. Though this did not happen in a national park, it did happen outdoors, and I think it's worth sharing. This time of year, every spring break season, I think about what happened to me on Florida's Gulf Coast. Ooh, another Florida story. This could be anything. It could be a python. It could be an alligator. There's so many things you shouldn't put bleach on.

Right, exactly. For some background, I grew up going to Florida almost every year, visiting my grandparents for Easter break in the 90s and early 2000s. I was familiar with the Atlantic Ocean and it's dangers, high tides, rip currents, jellyfish, sharks, etc. However, my older sister moved to Clearwater, Florida in 2016, and my eyes were open to Florida's Gulf Coast. Clearwater Beach with its sugar-white sand and clear, warm, emerald water. It was so different from the Florida beaches I was used to. Okay, back to 2021. I was now a fan on the Gulf Coast,

so when my partner and I were discussing potential spring break vacation destinations with his sister, this area was top of mind. At the time, his sister had a young child and another baby on the way, so our plan was to pick a less populated, more family-friendly beach on the coast. Clearwater Beach is extremely popular with the party crowd, and understandably is packed this time of year. Jeff, have you been there? He partied in Clearwater Beach before?

I haven't. No. Paint this scene. All right. I'll paint it. It's packed with party crowd. Picture that. I watched it on TV a lot as a kid.

Yeah. And TV. I watched it very closely. The idea of what was going on. I paused many times just to really get the idea of what Clearwater Beach looked like. Especially like adult swim. Oh, yeah. The commercials like at 2 a.m.

Yes. commercials were lit. All right. They say, not our thing. We ultimately landed on Treasure Island. Ooh. About 45 minutes south down the coast. It was perfect.

Definitely still touristy, but less crowded and plenty to do in the area. Plus the Muppets have been there. Treasure Island. How do you think it's the name Treasure Island? Like, do you just have one person found treasure there? Yeah. Yeah. That's all it takes, really.

Yeah. I wouldn't assume I could find treasure there. No, but you might. You never know. If I were to go to any island to look for treasure, I'd go to Treasure Island. See, I think that's a mistake. Hiding the treasure in the brown site.

Saturated by now. All right. That's where I'm going though still. Definitely still touristy, but less crowded, plenty to do in the area. We got a condo across the street from the beach with a grocery store right next door. I think this happened on the second or third day of our trip.

I remember because we are already sunburned from day one. Did I mention we're from Ohio? So at this point in time, our bodies hadn't seen the sun in many months. It was a day just as beautiful as the previous one. sunny in 80 degrees with calm clear water. My partner loves the water and is typically the first one in. I happily ran after him following him in a straight line as he entered the water.

I was following him pretty much step for step. The water wasn't even waist deep yet. And then it happened. Sudden, sharp pain in the bottom of my right foot. My foot never touched the sand on that step. I remember bringing it down through the heavy water when all of a sudden it was met with something that I pictured in my mind to be a jagged shard of glass that went all the way through my foot.

Jeff, you don't like that. That was like the final destination thing. Yeah. Glass injuries. Yeah. Hopefully it's not glass. I don't think it is. Fingers crossed, it's not glass.

Glass attack. I bet Quinn Tarantino hates that scene even more than you. Oh, yeah. Seeing those feet get all mangles, I think he just writes any feet stuff. Yeah. Even with like glass poking all the way through him? Oh, yeah.

Maybe it's been long enough that, like, that's what he needs now. He's got a violent. Keep it interesting. Yeah. Uh-oh. He's a little desensitized, just regular feet. What was it glass? I don't know.

We're about to get to that, I think. I can't remember the sound I made, but I know I made one because my partner turned and immediately saw that I was not okay. I don't think it was a scream because I hadn't quite gotten the attention in the entire beach just yet. Yes, I said yet. A frowny face emoji. Maybe more of a reactive sort of yelp.

I don't know. I immediately turned around and started walking or hopping back toward the sure. Have you ever had an injury that hurt so bad that you were afraid to look at it? I hadn't looked at my foot yet, but from the immediate and near paralyzing pain I felt, I thought that maybe my foot was going to be shredded, blood everywhere, a hospital stay in my future. I had no idea what just happened to me. Jeffrey said he had an injury that I didn't want to look at. He didn't give us a choice. It's kind of weird. I'm like rollodexing in my mind. All of my own injuries. I'll give you a clue. It's in his

Butthole. Oh, yeah. It wasn't easy to get a picture of that. It's impressive. You got a great angle. Very clearly showed it what the problem was. It's an interesting reaction. I feel like no matter how bad it is, I would like want to make sure my foot's going

to be okay. I would immediately look. Oh, yeah. It's like an interesting reaction to just be like, if I don't look, it's going to be okay. It's not real until I look at it. Yeah. I got to shore, my partner right behind me, and as much as I was afraid to look, I had to assess the situation.

What were we dealing with here? One, two, three, I held my breath and flipped my foot over to see one tiny little cut on the bottom of my foot. I don't even remember there being much blood at all, but when we talk about this now, my partner insists there's plenty of blood coming out of the tiny wound. Oh, a good partner. Yeah. I guess for me, what I saw just did not match the extreme pain I was feeling.

It's the power of venom, you know? I sat there on the beach towel with my partner and his sister, and her husband gathered around me, asking me what had happened. I told them I had no idea I must have stepped on something, but the pain was excruciating. We were all pretty confused looking at this tiny wound and wondering how it could be as painful as it was. I'm generally an introverted person, and I like my privacy when on vacation. I want to enjoy my time with the people I'm with. Don't like causing a scene or having attention on me, especially in such a public place where everyone is trying to enjoy themselves and have a good time. I also don't like asking for help.

I recognize that I have a really hard time with that. So I continued to sit there on my towel, holding my foot, trying to breathe through it, and hope that the pain would just magically dissipate, which it did not. It got worse. After about three minutes, I started yelling out in pain. People were starting to notice something was going on.

My partner sat with me and after a few more minutes, I looked at him and desperately said I needed help. He had said that he noticed an ambulance down the beach and he would bring back help. He ran Baywatch style next to him. style next to the ambulance that drove along the beach and parked close to where we were sitting. So he ran in slow motion then. Yeah, you got to get there fast.

Yeah. I wish I could have focused more on my hot shirtless hero running down the beach, but I was so focused on breathing and moaning through the pain. I guess I haven't completely described it yet. Have you ever had a muscle cramp in the middle of the night in your foot or calf muscle? I call it a Charlie horse, but not sure if most people are familiar with the term. Basically, it's an involuntary muscle spasm. That's the only thing that comes to mind to compare it to.

The muscles in my foot contracting, combined with burning pain, going up into my leg muscles. Was it spreading? Was whatever this was going to kill me? I think it was not knowing what it was that was making me panic. We saw nothing in the water. If a shark had bitten me, we would have known pretty quickly what was going on. Do you have any guesses? I'm almost positive what it is, and I haven't read this story yet.

I would bet money it's a stingray. Okay. Yeah, that's what I was going to say to. Just because of the action of like stepping down. Stepping and then like a little pin prick hole like that, their barbs don't really do much damage, but it really hurts. Everyone that I know that's been stung by Stingray says it's an incredible pain.

And just like shallow water like that. Yeah. Versus it like a hang out right there. Jellyfish or something. And a jellyfish wouldn't, there wouldn't be any bleeding or anything with the jellyfish. There might be a mark, but no bleeding. Because of the bleeding. We were, I was, I have good vibes, so I was not attacked by the jellyfish. But, um, right.

Of course not. No, but I was witness to it. And I was with my best friend Nitaia in Abiza, or Abitha, whatever you want to say. And we were at this nude beach and we're like, this is so great. And like, we like, go right in and like, you know, whatever. And then all of a sudden we realized that we were kind of surrounded by a bunch of jellyfish. And we were. And we were kind of surrounded by a bunch of jellyfish. And we were. And we were. And we were. And we were. And we were. And we were. And then, fish. But we didn't, we weren't familiar with like, just trying to get a look. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't start panicking because there's so many people in the water and I was like, I don't know, it feels like people are chill with this. Like, I don't know. And immediately, all of a sudden, she starts freaking out and like pushing the water away. And she's like, they're going to like, one is super close to me, but I can't see it anymore. And she starts panicking. So I start panicking. And she's, oh, fuck it got me and I thought worst case scenario it got her tit I'm like oh no what are we gonna do but it got she was like pushing the waterway and it got her arm and we had to like go up there's a

big restaurant which was also kind of strange because there's a big cliffside restaurant just overlooking this nude beach so people are like having salmon like watching everyone yeah there's a bunch of scopes mounted all the in surma corridor so we like what we had to go into the restaurant and asked for help and I think they gave her vinegar or something to put on it. Yeah. But it was all red and swollen. I have no idea what kind of jellyfish it was, but it went down within a couple hours. Boobie would have got so much more help, I bet.

I know. She'd been like, help. 20 guys with cans of vinegar that are just like ready to go. Anyway, sorry. Okay, so we're thinking it's a stingy. All right. I'm 90%. Yeah.

It's inception. I like it. The EMT arrived on the scene and was completely unbothered by what saw. He was my age, early 30s, or younger, and acted like he'd seen this a million times. Yep, looks like a baby stingray got you. A stingray? A baby? Did he have to include the word baby? Um, I'm just, this is, it's typed. He made me feel like I was overreacting. He told us this was common and to take some ibuprofen. He told us not to go to the emergency room. He said it would be crowded with spring breakers. There was nothing they could do anyway. Honestly, the way I

it was walk it off bitch oh yeah yeah he was gone as soon as he arrived our plan was to somehow walk me back to our condo and Google what to do by this point a scene was made people were staring I was sobbing I tried my best to pull it together my partner and his sister's husband pretty much carried me

to the boardwalk I tried to walk but I ended up giving in and had to put all my weight on them people were stopping us and asking us what had happened we were would mumble stingray and most people wished us luck. One drunk guy said, I seriously think you're supposed to pour bleach on it. I don't trust that guy. Like, why are you listening to him? Please tell me you didn't pour bleach on it.

His wife hurried him along and said, do not listen to him. I agree with her. We got back to the condo and Googled what we were supposed to do in this situation. Warm water is what I think you're supposed to do, but I'm not positive. At this point, I truly knew almost nothing about stingrays. I knew one of them killed Steve Irwin. I knew I donated RIP Steve. I know.

I knew I donated money at the Stingray exhibit the day before the Clearwater Marine Aquarium. Oh. And then I got stung by one the very next day. The irony was rich. Seriously. That's messed up. Yeah, that is messed up.

That's why I always say never donate money to animals. Maybe there's a huge one out there that was going to Steve Irwin, her, and this baby was like, don't go any further. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a good helping her. She was helping us. Yeah.

That's likely, I would say. All right. The next 24 hours, I would read every single article or account I could find online of someone who had been stung by a stingray. I read that most beaches don't or didn't at the time put up signage warnings, beachgoers, because they were worried it would discourage tourists. We learned that the only thing I could, we learned that the only thing I could do was soak my foot in water as hot as the person can tolerate. That's what I've read too. We read that the pain would peak approximately two hours after the sting. What?

Hours? My partner spent the next several hours alternating between the biggest mixing bullet and saucepot we could find in the condo. I know this is pretty gross, but we were desperate. As soon as my foot entered the 110 degree Fahrenheit water, I felt immediate relief. Apparently, this helps inactivate the venom and promote blood circulation to the area. When the water would cool or I would pull my foot out, I immediately felt the waves of pain again. My partner was rotating bowls for the next couple of hours until the pain subsided. This is a good boyfriend.

I hope she hung on to this guy. From the Baywatch to the, yeah. Yeah. Sounds like husband, right? Can she say, I didn't see my husband? She just said partner. He's hot. We know that. Yeah, we do know that.

Sunpicked. I called my sister that evening to tell her what had happened to me. Her first reaction was, oh, you didn't do the shuffle? What? The stingray shuffle? She said confidently. I had never heard of this. Apparently, the locals know you're supposed to drag your feet along the sand upon entering the shallow water to let the stingrays know you're coming.

I don't know if that's exactly right. I like the idea. You should drag your feet, but you do kind of want to kick them in front of you. The sand worms. To like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the little dance. Yeah.

Oh, I thought you meant kick the sand so you could tell when one of them was under the sand beneath you. I think if you're just dragging your feet around, you might be more luckily. or likely to step on one. But anyway. Shy Hulud or a stingray? I'm talking stingray now, not shy hooded. Yeah. They can feel your vibrations and will swim away.

She told me she had seen signage for this before, but I insisted this was the first I was hearing about it. The more research I did, the more I realized that stings were pretty common. They are. Why aren't they talked about more? I guess the pain can vary depending on where you got stung, how deep your wound is,

how much venom is injected, and how soon you get your foot into hot water. I've also heard that some restaurants along beach boardwalks put buckets outside for this exact purpose. The last thing I learned was you absolutely should go to the hospital and get antibiotics ASAP because the wounds are usually deep and led in marine bacteria. I wait until I was home almost a week later to visit a surprise doctor in Ohio who told me my wound was infected. Ooh, that's not good. Yeah, sand, right, Jeff? No wonder she's so mad at that the medical person.

EMT. Yeah, the guy that was just like. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. We always, when we do marine stories and sand gets in wounds. Oh, boy, is that increase our, our ouchy rating. That hurt.

It's like a 10 on the Willys rating. Yeah. It gives me the Willys. I'm sharing my story because I am still shocked that I didn't know this was something that could happen to me in shallow water. Had I been educated on stingrays, I would have much less, I would have much less fear and would have been able to react properly and immediately get my foot into hot water. No, I'm not mad at the baby stingray after all. I forced myself to get back into the water

the very next day. Oof, I was unaware of the infection risk at this time. And I understand this is just an intense defense mechanism that I was lucky enough to be on the business end of. Most people don't get to experience what venom feels like entering the body. I will never forget. It's a good way of looking at it. It is. Yeah, it's a cool experience. Very optimistic. Glass is very half full. Yeah, I'm happy just learning about this one from other people. I attached a few pictures here to show the little cut where you can clearly see what the serrated barb entered my foot. Another of the shape the doctor circled on my foot to show where the infection was spreading

up into my leg. It'd be funny if the next thing was like, and another of where my leg was amputated. Wes is going to be like, actually, stingrays can't leave a scar. Let me show you what a stingrate bite looks like or sting. Yeah And lastly, my foot soaking in the bowls I cropped out my puffy, teary face Anyway, I'm a long time fan of you ladies

And would be thrilled if you read this Oh, too bad They're not reading it I'm reading it instead You probably don't know who I am So that other folks don't have to experience The panic I did that day Enjoy the view, but do the stingray shuffle, Jess

P.S, not one article mentioned anything about pouring bleach onto the wound For the love of God, please don't listen to drunk men on spring break. I think that's great advice across the board. No matter what they're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you knew pretty much everything about what to do and what it was.

We've been in a lot of places that have lots of stingrays. And I do, like, I'm always pretty nervous about them because they are typically in pretty shallow water. And if you're not careful, like trying to scare them, you can step on them really easily. So, yeah. And as someone who just likes to sprint into the ocean, much like the story, it is like a scary thing that you can just step on a sting rat. Yeah. And from people, like our uncle got stung by one and he said it was like the most intense pain he's ever felt.

And he had cancer. Wow. Yeah. I said that before the cancer. Yeah, I think he said it before the cancer. Oh. Yeah. Okay.

We'd ask him, but he's dead. Unfortunately. Anyway, yeah, so do the shuffle, but I wouldn't so much drag your foot as kind of just like stomp in place and kind of wave your feet in front of you a little bit. And that should be enough to scare away. Stay right in front of you. Okay.

Good to know. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for participating in all of our trail tales and reading everything from our listeners. It's fun. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Well, you're not done yet.

You're not done yet because our listeners were really excited that we were recording together. So they wrote a list of questions that they would like us to ask you on their behalf. Yeah, some of them. We don't have time for all 500. Yeah, there were a lot of questions. But we compiled a few of them. Yeah. All of them.

Okay. Okay. We'll come back for the second episode, part two for the rest. Okay, the first one. Who has the most unhinged childhood pet story? I don't, like, me and Jeff, we had a pond near our house where we caught a lot of different little critters of the pond and we were allowed to keep them for a couple days before we let them go. And the reason that rule came up is because we would take them inside and sometimes they'd get lost. And we had a snake get lost that was lost for like two months.

And then later my mom found Jeff as a baby playing with him. it in the basement. And then she also found turtles underneath the couch cushions. And that's when she was like, okay, no more animals in the house. So I don't know. I do remember too, you wanted to bring some snakes you caught to show and tell. Oh, yeah. And mom wouldn't pick them up.

And I was like, two. And she had me pick them up. And they were just like biting me. And there's like a picture of me holding these snakes just biting me. Yeah. West's unhinged stories where when you were in like college. though. Yeah, those are more...

Raccoons. Then you met Hillary Duff because you had raccoons. Yeah. Yeah, but we don't need to get in all that. It pays off. There's another quick one that I had where I was five and I was walking home with a snake and my mom said I just had blood running down my hand and the snake was biting me. And I was like, hey, mom, this one bites.

And it was like the first time I had gone bit and I was so excited about it. But yeah. Anyway, those are mine. Okay. I don't know if I have one unhinged. I don't have one that's unhinged, but my dad had an iguana growing up, and I used to take it for walks down the road, and it had a little leash. That's cool. That's cool.

People would always, like, look at me. Would it, like, do well on a walk? I mean, it was very slow walking, and we didn't make it far, and then we'd turn around and I'd carry it. But we went for, like, little small walks. And I was a child, and the iguana was pretty big, so it was, I imagine it was pretty comical watching me at like seven years old just carrying an iguana down the street with a leash on it. It's more just to like show the neighborhood like we are the coolest family.

Yeah. Yeah. Check out my iguana. Mike, do you have one? I don't. I'm not going to. I mean, we had a scorpion. That's not really a pet, but it got loose in like the little Harry Potter closet underneath the stairs in our house in Nevada. Not sure what the resolution there was. I think it's like, that's its closet now. It's still there somehow. We don't go in that room. Right.

Well, this next question is kind of geared towards you. Yeah. If horses were carnivores, would Mike like them more or less? More. Okay. And how do Danielle and Mike get along if Danielle is a horse girl and Mike is a horse hater? We never said we got along. Yeah.

No, there's some serious tension. Bitter enemies. Yeah. This is like, this is draining for both of us. Right. We actually are all in the same city. We could have gotten to record together, but we needed to keep us in separate rooms. It's probably a relief to like be able to put that out there now.

Yeah, I feel better. Pretend at all. No more. Yeah. Don't have to keep up pretense? No. So here's the thing. I'm so happy for people that like horses and have horses and have those special kinds of relationships with them.

That's just never going to be me. They freak me out and I do not care for them. and I don't respect them, but that's just a personal. Mike's very close to my girlfriend, and she's like a certified platinum horse girl. So, and they're very, they love each other. So she got her certification. She did. It's a big old plaque on the wall.

Also, part A of that question, I feel like any change that you say Mike will like the horses more. Yeah. Wings. Oh, dude, wings. Pegasus. That's a sweet. That's not a horse though. That's a Pegasus. Right. Two completely different things. Yeah. Pegasai. You like something close to a horse. Zebras? Degras. Donkeys.

Dwarfs. Drafts? Are giraffes close to horses? Pretty close? Just long neck horse. Okay. Okay. Dude, if you like donkeys, you've got to watch Shrek. Listen, Wes is the one that has a problem with Shrek. I am all in. I'm camping out for Shrek 5. I'm at the front of that line. Okay, out of all five of you, who has the best odds against a silverback gorilla? Well, it's you because you got good vibes.

It is me. It's just going to cuddle with you. Yeah, I'm going to say me because I'm like, have the most confidence. Fight confidence. Jeff is the most confidence he can beat a prime, or the most confident he can beat a primate in a fight. Confidence does take you far. Silverback, none of us have any chance. A chimpanzee, I'm giving myself 10% chance.

No way, dude. I'm going with Cassie on this one because you guys, you're familiar with King Kong, right? Yes. Is it Tayeleone? Or no, who's the... No, it's what's her face. From the ring, the ring, right? Yeah.

Anyway, you look the most like her, that actress. And I think the gorilla would just fall in love with you and want to, like, carry you up to the top of buildings and stuff. That would be pretty cool. And then you could, like, push it off the edge. Naomi, what's the name? If we're on the same team, I'm not pushing it off the edge. Well, we're like talking about winning a fight. I'm saying if you wanted to beat it.

The question wasn't a fight. And that's why I think either the girls have a better chance. It's just who has the best odds against a silverbacker alone. If Cassie teams up with it, then like we're all in Trump. Yeah. Exactly. I think Jeff has the- The worst odds because he's going to go in there like fists flying, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. That's probably true. Okay. How does your current career compare or differ from what you imagined you would be doing? Ever since I was like three years old, I wanted to be a podcast. He had little toy microphones. So it's going well.

It's pretty comfortable. Okay. I dreamt about being a wildlife biologist, like my whole childhood. And then when I went to college, I decided it wasn't like practical and thought I would be like a doctor or something and then just got like sucked back into being a wildlife biologist. So I think I do I do feel proud to say I do think I'm one of those like few kids that got to live their childhood dream and be like exactly what I wanted to be as a kid. Very cool. Yeah. Good for you dude. Who cares. Thanks man. Not me. I know. We're enemies too.

Good job. Yeah. The podcasting thing's a new element. Yeah. It is. I don't really know what I wanted to be. be. I never had a good idea even right up until I quit my full-time job and started doing podcasting as my new full-time job. I was always kind of hopping from one place to the last and I was in information security and that's super boring. So the less said about that the better. But let's just say, life's taking a real upward turn. That's good. Good for you, Mike. It's positive. Cassie's thriving. Yeah, I am thriving. I never want to clock in. I do keep saying if the podcast ever goes under

I'm gonna just go to the 7-11 down the street and get a job there because they have the self-checkout stance and those guys don't have to do anything they just watch other people do their job for them now that's just with you because you do self-checkout if you work there you would have to do small talk

all day long no way dude I'd be pretending to stock the hostess donuts and stuff all day wait why is Cassie living or what she's living the dream yeah she's loving her dream yeah I never want to walk into another workplace again. I love having my own schedule. I never dreamed of working, but this is pretty comparable to... But you both still like introduce yourselves as vet techs,

right? And not podcasters. Sometimes if people ask what we do for work and they don't know, like if I'm just meeting someone randomly on the street and they're like, oh, what do you do for work? Because that seems to be a very common question to ask. I always say I'm a vet tech or I'll I'll say I work in marketing. Nice. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, I'm in a full-blown lie with my masseuse.

Like, I, I'm deep in this lie. Like, I couldn't be, like, I'm making up fake work schedules with my very deep. That's very deep. I'm like, oh, I got to be at the hospital. That time won't work for me. Just because I said one time, I was in vet tech. and he just keeps talking about it and I just can't get out of it. But yeah, it's good.

I'll always say, like, I'm a podcaster. Like, go check out my podcast and give all these, like, episodes to listen to. But then if I'm with Mike doing that, Mike will, like, actively try to get them not to listen to it. Mortifying. Yeah, I mean. Jeff is our hype, man, for sure. It's good. Yeah.

Well, you got to have one. And unfortunately, for me and Cass, neither of us are right. I hype you up. I'm so opposite of a hype. I need to be more of a hype because I was out walking on a trail and I was wearing a national park after dark sweatshirt. And I forgot that I was wearing it, but I walked by a girl on the trail.

And she was like, she said, oh my God, I have the same sweatshirt. I love that one. And I said, cool. And then I just got walking. That's 100% what Mike would do too. I said he wouldn't say cool. he would just ignore him and keep walking. You'd be like, I don't know what this switch it is.

I just got off. I just put it on next savers. If I had my way, I mean, when Jeff and I were in San Diego and I was wearing a tooth and claw sweatshirt, someone recognized tooth and claw and not the person wearing it. And they're like, I love that sweatshirt. And I was like, oh, yeah, well, Jeff's right over there. And I was never going to say anything about me.

Like, that was it, you know, and immediately. you're like Jeff Jeff Now is a quarter of the dark I'm like Erred it out It's supposed to be a secret I'm a vet tech Okay

Next This one's really quick Cougar Puma and Mountain Lion What's the difference All the same cat Great Yep

What other ones are they There's cat a mount Mountain Screamer Man There's a They have so many names Like Red Devil Yeah I had the whole list

Once But there's a bunch Puma is what they're mostly called in like central and South America. That's like the most common name for them. But it's actually my favorite name for them because their their scientific name is Puma Concolor. So I think it like makes the most sense for that to be the universal name. But yeah, it's kind of like regional things. Panther is another one that people call them.

But yeah, anyway. Ever since we started talking about it, Cassie, I keep seeing, I don't know if it's getting further along. But I think they're pushing forward the reintroduction into Vermont. Oh, are they? Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, they've been, I haven't paid much attention to it, but they have license plates with a catamount. It says like Vermont catamount on it.

Oh, cool. And they've been talking about reintroducing them for a while. Yeah. Okay. I know feeding wildlife is a no-no, but where do bird feeders factor into this? Is this a problem because the seeds and the bird feeders aren't what they typically find? What's the deal? That's a tricky one.

I think people, people ask that a lot. And like, I think it's kind of a good. gray area. I think if you can give them wild feed, that's the best. And if you're not attracting like other nuisance animals, like if you live in a bear area, you shouldn't have bird feeders out. So that's a really good way to food condition a bear. But I put out suet feeders for our neighborhood birds. I feel like it just gives them a nice little boost. And it's not like changing their natural behavior. So I don't know. I'm personally okay with it. But I think there's probably people that would argue against that too. Have you seen, the one thing I've seen with bird feeders is that you have

to be careful about birds that migrate because if you keep their food out, then they might stay in the area. Is that true? I've heard that, but I don't personally, I don't think I've ever seen that, like, happen in action. I think, like, the will to migrate is stronger than the will to, like, get some food. But I don't, I don't know. Maybe if you're, like, right at the tail end of their migration or something, but for our birds that migrate, they're, like, the place they're migrating to is such a stark difference from, like, where they are that I don't think I could stop them from migrating with, like, a suet feeder. But I'm not going to say that definitively, because I'm not sure. Yeah, if you tried hard enough, you could. Yeah. If you put a little cage over him, you could probably

stop them from migrating. I mean, Jeff tries to get him in his house. Yeah, he's done it. Yeah. Tries and succeeds. I just hang my, I have like a hook that's right by the window where my bird feeder normally is. So when they're just going crazy on it, sometimes I'll put my bird feeder inside. And they'll come in. Good. What color Eminem is the best? Oh, man, to eat blue, but of the cartoon characters green.

Green. Yeah. Oh, wow. But I like the old. I like her personality. The woke green, no, that's not for me. Oh, the Eminem Snowflake out. What was it?

They just gave her like 10 shoes instead of heels or something. And the right was all like. I like that. A little change, image change. Does a girl good. Is there an actual difference in flavor? Is that a stupid question? No, I think so.

Okay. I'm not a big Eminem person. I have a friend who swears that yellow M&Ms are the best flavor. And if you give her a handful of Eminem's and she closes her eyes, she can tell you every time which one is the yellow one because she says it tastes different. And even when I went to, I went to the Eminem store, I think I was in Vegas and she's like, just get the yellow Eminem's. And it was a thing. They had whole bags of just yellow Eminem's that you could buy. What? Really? I can't tell the difference. She swears by it.

Did they have whole bags of all the different colors that you can buy them? Yeah. Not that I remember, but maybe. They have those huge like chamber things. Yeah, they do have those. Like the Harry Potter point counters. Huh. Yeah. I want you to bring your friend on the show and make her prove that. Yeah.

Okay. Because I have a hard time believing that one. I've seen her do it twice and she was correct. Two out of two. Two out of two strong. Okay. What do you have to say to that, doubting Thomas? I am.

Can bring her on the show as she could do it. Yes. We'll have her on as a guest too. I'll let her know. A little outside the purview of our show, but this is important. No, it's pertinent. Yeah. I don't know.

Growing up, that was my favorite thing to do to my sister. I would blindfold her and feed her random stuff and make her guess what it was. But I was so mean. And I always, it was never great. It was like cat treats and like dog food and hot sauce and stuff. This is torture, miles per of torture. Yeah. It's like not a hard thing to guess.

either. Yeah, that's dog food. I don't know if I'd be able to identify dog food. This burning thing must be hot sauce. Hot sauce, yeah. And one time she freaked out and I was trying to keep her calm and she was trying to rip the blindfold off her face. And I had, you know, the fake like lemon container that lemon juice is in. Yeah. And it looks like a lemon. That's what I was trying to put in her mouth. And it got in her eye. It was right before my parents were coming home because I was babysitting. What a babysitter. And she was losing her mind. I had to bribe her to not tell them that that's what had just happened.

Oh, good times. Maybe we should do that, Cassie, for a live stream. Yeah, from the eyeball. She gets it from her. She's like, lemon juice. It's like next is Tabasco. Yeah, really. Okay.

Cage match, Danielle versus Cassie. Oh. Huh. Well, you have that, like, super, like, marathon runner's kidney, right, Cassie? I do. Yes. Yeah, he does. Oh, you're a cyborg.

Maybe it's, like, 2V1. Like, he gives you a little bit extra power. So, yeah. It is something to consider. It is. He does ultra-marathons. I'm going to put my money on Cassie, but I think it's a good fight. Danielle's going to vibe out, and that's going to really change the energy in the cage.

Fides are too good. Do you go with Daniel because of this? story she just told about her. That's true. Got a little. Psycho energy. Yeah, the thing is Cassie's strong and capable and powerful. Yeah.

But I'm feisty. You're angry. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a pretty good. That's actually a really good question. Yeah. No good odds either way.

It seems like a good fight. We can make that happen. Yeah, let's do this. The next live show. Every new stuff on the tour, you got a fight at the end. We invite them on our show and just say, okay, now fight. There's like bedding stations. Yeah.

Winner takes all. Does Wes have a favorite hike to do in western Montana area? Specifically, Wes. Nobody else. Yeah, we should have Jeff answer this one too. Because I live here now, but Jeff also grew up here. I, you know, I do, and it's kind of a boring answer because it's in glacier. But the Grinnell Glacier Hike in Glacier National Park is my favorite hike in western Montana.

It's just like almost every time I do it, I see bears. It's a beautiful hike the whole time. Like the entire time you're hiking, you're looking at like a beautiful vista with the lower Grinnell Lake below you. And then you get up to another really beautiful lake that has remnants of a glacier in it. So it's just, it's kind of like 10 out of 10 for me. It's not super easy, but it's not like really hard. either. Jeff? Sure, yeah. I'll just go with glaciers. Or no, I'm going to go

Does Yellowstone count? Yeah. Well, it's a western? Part of it, a tiny bit of it is in Western Montana. Yeah. Is it, it the hike in Western? Boardwalk. Go guys are watching. Yeah. I'll go with the trail that Jeff literally built. I hiked that

once. That is a good trail. That is a good trail. Thanks for only crediting me for Yeah. It's all right. I don't know. And rest both built two trails in Missoula. I'm glad you viewed it is just me. Yeah.

You dug it out with your bare hands. Yeah. Not even as human hands. Okay. Do the Toothy Boys have any trail tales, spooky stories, or weird occurrences? Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yes.

Mike. Mike is outside a lot. So. I have a lot of stories. A lot of like animal stuff. And then I do have one spooky story. Yeah. I do have one really spooky story, but it's a whole story in of itself.

So have you told it on your show? I have, yeah, on a Halloween episode. But it was the really quick version of it is that I was doing some bare research. I was staying in a very kind of remote area, a tiny little forest service cabin. And I was taking photos in the night sky. And in one of those photos, there are suddenly some shadows in the window of my cabin. that look very much like some of like the pictographs and stuff in southwest Utah. And it was very, for me it was really scary.

Mike and Jeff were very tired of hearing the story. But it like the picture is pretty crazy. So yeah, that's my story. Spooky. Did you go back into the cabin, have to stay the night? I did. I had to go back in. And there was a bunch of flies in the window when I went back in, which also scared me.

But I'm just trying to give as few details as possible so that I can avoid Mike. ridiculous right now. Well, if anybody wants to hear the whole... I'll show you guys the photo just on the video I hear. What episode number is that? I think it's a subscriber episode, actually. Oh, even better. You're going to have to plug in the bar.

Another plug for a subscription. Do you guys have any, Jeff and Mike? Pretty sure my mom is haunting my house right now. Oh, that's fun. When she died, we threw away like 70 throw pillows that you put on, like, couches all over your house. She had a real unhealthy obsession with these things. And every once in a while, there will be more that pop up that I swear we did not have before. And they're just, they keep appearing out of nowhere on there's. I hate these pillows, man. There's so many of them. There's the

window with the spooks in it. So yeah. The ghouls. Yeah. So it was, it was creepy. Creepy. Yeah. This was it. In all the other photos, that's what it looked like. But then in that one photo. There's the two figures. That is scary. The last time we were on here, we told my best trail story. You know, I went to one of the most haunted places in America and I touched a little boy ghost.

But I didn't realize it. The guide just told me like, oh yeah, you're touching like a little boy right now. I was like, what? That was wild. He wasn't even telling us. He's like, swing your hand. No. Swing your hand. Do you feel that?

He's like, the hand just went through a little boy's head. I'm like, what? That's crazy. I had no idea. We actually, there is, I didn't include it on here, but we did get a question that is pertinent. Would it was specifically to you, would you ever go on another ghost tour again? I don't know. I was pretty scared by that.

We also did get an email that. I can't include it on Trail Tales, but it was more. of just like a heads up and somebody wrote in and said, I was like, shitting my pants because as soon as you guys were describing that ghost tour, it was, I've been on that exact tour. I know the exact guide you're talking about. I know everything. Like, it's so funny. Similar experience.

And we failed to mention that guide also came out of like the bushes in a dark abandoned park to meet us in plain clothes alone. He was just like, hi, I'm Joe. We're like, oh, my God. Okay. Tips for bear safety this year during summer hikes, especially with less park staff. And a follow-up, Yosemite doesn't allow bear spray. So what's the next best option for preparation?

Yeah. So the three tips that we always say are carry bear spray know how to use it. Hiking groups and just make plenty of noise are like for those are the tips for kind of preventing anything bad from happening. If you see a bear, if a bear is approaching you, group up, get your bear spray out, slowly back away. We like to keep it really simple just because we don't want a ton of things

running through people's heads. So that's basically it. Those things are going to really help you decrease your chances of having a negative bear encounter. As far as Yosemite is concerned, I think they've just had so many more problems with people not knowing that bear spray is like bear spray and not bear

like, what am I? Just accidents with their spray and misuse. Or they're like spraying their kids with it because they think it's like repellent. Yeah. Yeah. And so they haven't had any bear attacks for forever.

So that must have worked. Yeah. Personally, I think they should allow bear spray in there. I think it's a recipe for disaster sooner or later someone's going to get attacked. They only have black bears. But just being in groups, like being with multiple people is 99.9.9% of the time enough to deter a black bear. So that would be my next best option is. Don't solo hike if you're nervous about bears.

Hot dog poker. Yeah. For that. A hot dog rooster. Make lots of noise. But yeah, being groups. Okay. Shark bands with a Z.

Do they actually work? It's supposedly a shark deterrent. I don't even know what that is. Yeah. I've done a tiny bit of research into it in the past. And I think, I don't think it's like that effective. I think they can work. I think what they're supposed to do is disrupt the electrical signals because sharks are

really like they have ampulae of Lorenzini and they have a lateral line and because of that electrical fields are really attractive or disruptive to them but from what I've heard it's not like something you should bet your life on that's really you just hold it out it's it's a wristband yeah you just like hold it out like the vibes are high I'm Chris Brad does that in the Jurassic world movies it's more than enough stops of loss if they worked like seals would be using yeah I feel like if they worked everyone would have them yeah Okay, last two. What's a time outside or traveling when you felt totally in awe or just very thankful to be there?

We're all silent. We're like, that doesn't apply to us. Crickets. We went, our last, like, tooth and claw trip was India. And we had a couple really crazy safari. Oh, yeah, two trips ago. A couple really crazy, like, safari days where it's just like, man, nice job. Being in the, being in the Himalayas, yeah.

Like just being in the Himalayas and looking around just felt really surreal to us too. Like this is crazy that we're here and camping. Mike wasn't quite as happy about it. No, that shit sucks. I will say scuba diving, every time I go scuba diving, I have those feelings where it's just like, I'm kind of in a really special place where I'm like pretty privileged to be able to observe and be a part of that world. So yeah, if anyone has even the slightest interest in scuba diving, I fully, full check. chestedly encourage pursuing that.

This is going to sound like a little pretentious, but for me it was just at my house recently. Like it was so beautiful in Western Montana. And we just had like, we have these long evenings in the summer and the grass is green. And it just felt like really peaceful and nice. And it just made me feel really lucky to live here. That doesn't sound pretentious. It sounds like you're grateful for. Yes.

Yeah. All right. Just gratitude. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last but not least. This was the most ask.

The most asked question. By far. Are you planning any National Park After Dark and Toothy Group events or trips? Is this a possibility in the future? And this was asked in about 40 different ways. I think you two are way better at planning than us three. So I think like if you want to plan something and invite us, like we're all for it. I tried to do like a big cruise and I feel like it's not working.

I've just been waiting to hear back. You're like, we all had to. Yeah, so for, to answer that. To answer it is yes. We should do like a live show somewhere. Yeah. That would be really fun. Yeah, we have considered it.

And doable. Or a trip. Honestly, like, we both work with the same trip operator. It wouldn't be hard for us to do a combined trip. I think it would just be like getting the amount of people. We would need. Maybe someone listening just has like a place. A solution.

Yeah. Does anyone have like a basement? We can hang out. If anyone has like a cruise ship? A base. A. You have like a cruise ship that we have borrowed for a week. Does anyone have a yacht that we could do a private event on?

It's small, intimate. Gathering. Gathering. Yeah. 300 plus people. Yeah. We have said the answer is yes. We've been working on it.

I wanted like everyone who wants to go to be able to go size, maybe thinking too big. I was like, yeah. We need spots for at least a thousand people. We talked to that operator though And they said we could do like a Southeast Asia one that would be cheap that we could have like a hundred people at So it'd be fun to do it with with you guys So yeah Oh yeah

We should talk about it we'll talk about it more We'll talk about it off air yeah Yeah For in the meantime shut up all you listeners Yeah So invasive I want you to speak up and just tell us what to do Yeah do it for us please

Yeah, we'll do it, but we're just tired, you know? It's a lot of work planning. It is. Yeah. But anyway, all right, well, that's it. That's that on that. And thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having us.

Of course. We'll do this. I think we do it like once a year. That's our cadence, right? Yeah. And we'll have you guys on ours again soon too. Okay. Well, Danielle came on kind of recent, but it's Patriot.

It's true. When she got back from Antarctica and a fever dream. Just, but it's the easy one. You just had to say what Anne was the cutest. I don't know. You sprung the bracket on me. I've never seen a bracket before my life.

And I was like, I was supposed to fill this out. Plus you had a dead possum on your porch. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot happening. Working through a lot. Maybe we can bump it up to once a quarter. You did a good job.

Thank you. Yeah, we'll have to have you both on. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

But watch you're back. Bye. Bye. See it. See yeah. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club, live streams,

Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with

discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash. back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.