National Park After Dark - Outlaws of the West: Capitol Reef National Park (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

After feeling betrayed by his lawyer and the Union Pacific Railroad, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid flee Utah to start a new life in South America. Their lavish lifestyles and gambling habits cause them to make a quick stop and they make a terrible mistake that leads to a manhunt to find them. Their life of crime catches up to them and sparks a mystery that to this day, has yet to be solved.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Cozy Earth: Use code NPAD at checkout for 35% off.Taos AER: Use code NPAD for 30% off.Hello Fresh: Use code NPAD16 for up to 16 free meals and 3 free gifts.Zbiotics: Use code NPAD at checkout for 15% off.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Maybe, or not mad, but just a little like, come on. Begrudgingly pressing play on this episode. Here we go. It's like you could have just put this in one episode, but I had to wait three days. Okay, can we just say, Cassie has almost 30 pages of notes for this episode. It was not going in one episode. For my sake, if none, another, okay? We're sitting down for that long.

And just to put, like, a little bit of a scale to this, our, like, hour and 20 minute episodes usually have, like, 17 or 18 pages. Yeah. And Cassie was like, I was working on this for, like, two weeks. And I thought she meant that she would do a little, put it down, research something else, dabble in something else, whatever. No, no. No, no. She was just really all in. So I am excited.

to hear the rest of this because it is an episode that's totally different from anything we've ever done. And let's just give a little recap. Yes. I know it was only a couple days ago, but let's just give a little recap. So I was trying to tally it up in my mind a little bit because, of course, Capitol Reef, there's arches. You talked about Grand Teton. You talked about Dinosaur National Monument. That's four already. The most national parks we've ever visited in an episode, I think, Unless you're counting maybe trail tales. Yeah, that's true. But essentially, Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid,

we were talking about all of the bank robberies and train robberies that Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid, essentially committed and done and their hideouts that they had done in robbers roost and up in Wyoming. And this is now going on, what, 15 or so years of this streak? Of just prolific bankers. Butch Cassidy became the most prolific bank robber, train robber in history in the West at this point. And also at this point, there are essentially law enforcement groups that had the capacity now to start hunting him down. They started maybe looking at a pattern, knew what was going on, kind of technology was starting to ramp up as far as like telegrams and phone because what were early 1900s now.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And essentially what's happening is law enforcement is getting more organized. And Bush Cassidy has said, I'm going to get caught and I need to figure out a way to not get caught. So he tries to strike up a deal with the Union Pacific Railroad that him, his Wild Bunch Gang, and the Sundance Kid, they will not rob the trains in exchange for basically immunity. Like, we're not getting in trouble for anything we've done. We're not returning the money.

But in exchange for this, we will actually protect the railroads from any other. train robbers. So we're work, they're working for them essentially now. Essentially was the idea, but But Butch Cassidy showed up to this meeting, which was out in the middle of nowhere, out in Utah somewhere, and his lawyer was supposed to arrive with the railroad company as someone who is like, you can't arrest him, you can't ambush him when you get here. We're doing this basically on a level playing field. And Butch Cassidy sat around and he waited for hours and hours for this meeting to happen and no one ever showed up. And when no one showed up, he believed that he had been double crossed and he wrote a note and left it under a rock for whenever anyone decided to show up

to read it. And he wrote, damn you, Preston, who was his lawyer, you have double crossed me. I waited all day, but you didn't show up. Tell the Union Pacific to go to hell and you can go with them. Butch Cassidy. This is a question you probably don't know the answer to too. Okay. But is that note still in existence somewhere? Like in a museum or? I don't know the answer to that. Wouldn't that be so cool to see? That would be awesome to see. I would love to see that. Because obviously, it's in the historical record somewhere, but who knows if it was actually kept? Yeah. There is a Butch Cassidy Museum at the Bank of Montpelier. It was his first bank robbery as the Wild Bunch Gang on August 13, 1986. And now it's a museum dedicated to him. Yeah. Oh, how times have changed. Yeah.

Oh, how the tables have turned. Yeah. Now he has his own tourist attraction named after him. But I can't, I'm not sure about the note. That would be really cool. I'd be really interested to see that. But essentially, we left off the first episode that he's at this point where he believes he's been betrayed and he's not able to strike up a deal and he's going to continue being in. outlaw. In reality, there actually hadn't been a betrayal that had taken place at all. The train that was supposed to be there had been delayed and they did arrive at the place that they were supposed to meet up at, but they arrived very late. But But Butch Cassidy had already left that day and he was angry and he had a new plan in mind. If he wasn't going to be able to strike up a deal with a railroad

and that they were still after him, he would plan and escape and head down to Patagonia. What? Hold on. What better place than Utah's Patagonia? Seems extreme. Well, his reasoning behind of this was that he had heard that Patagonia was a great place to make money cattle ranching, and he was sure that if he was in Patagonia, that there would be no one looking for him there. So this was a place that had jobs that he was familiar with. He had cattle ranched and horse ranching his entire life. and was a place that he would potentially be safe from any authorities after him. So he reached out to the Sundance Kid who had a girlfriend named Etta and asked if they would want to come with him to escape authorities and start a new life.

And they agreed. Now, during some point, during this elaborate plan to escape and head to Patagonia, they left Utah and they went to Fort Worth, Texas. There, they essentially went on a spending spree. They were spending their money on fine clothes, good alcohol, fine dining, entertainment, they were gambling, and they were going to brothels. They were spending lots of money and they were just having good time. And while they were down there, along with some other members who were part of the Wild Bunch gang, they decided that it would be

a good idea to go get their photograph taken from a photographer in the area. They were showing off their fine clothes that they had bought and they were really excited. And the photographer who photographed them was so excited and impressed. with how well the photo that he took turned out that he ended up putting it on display in his studio. A law enforcement officer had happened to walk by, and he recognized the men in the photo as members of the Wild Bunch Gang. He then went to send this photo to authorities back in Utah, who then made wanted photos out of their images. So authorities had known what Butch Cassidy looked like, but just a select few. And with this image, they were now suddenly able to be like, this is what he looks like to the general public.

Oh, no. Oh, no. So they just basically created their own wanted poster. It's exactly what happened. This was the first time that they were ever able to physically put a face to not only Butch Cassidy, but also the Sundance Kid and other Wild Bunch members. And they had originally, they did have a very... old photo of Butch Cassidy from his prison days, but it was old and it wasn't updated and it wasn't one that they used for their wanted posters. But from these photographs, they did create wanted

posters for both of them. It's like this is an up-to-date picture of him. Like, this is what he looks like we need to know where he is. Wow. God, it's one of those moments like, God, damn it. It's like, you were so close. Oh, no. Oh, no. And this is what really began the downfall of the gang. With these new images that were out and these wanted posters that were displayed everywhere, this really verified that they needed to go to Patagonia. They needed to head to South America to start a new life because now everyone knew what they look like. But before they left, they decided that they would have one last hurrah and live large in New York City for a few weeks. How were they getting here, there and everywhere? The trains? The train system. Yeah, they had new ways

of exploring now. And they do. They head up to New York and they spend weeks. They're gambling, visiting shows and they went up there with money. They're in their new fine clothing. They're showcasing all their cash that they have. And they really went to all these gambling places and they're like, we're high rollers. Well, they're millionaires. Yeah. They have so much money now. And there is proof. There is physical proof in history that these people went up there because the Sundance kid and his girlfriend, Edda, posed for a photo at a studio in New York. So they stop posing for photos. It's like you're wanted criminals. Stop putting photographic evidence out there of your existence and location. It's like after all of this work you've done, you have set up relay races

essentially for bank robberies. Hidden out in the desert for For months. For months, you're living in robbers roost. You are literally living off the grid, doing all this wild stuff. But you have to have your photo taken. Well, it's kind of like the pitfalls of, you know, now you're feeling good. You're feeling on top of the world. You feel invincible. Like, I have all this money. I have all the success. I've gotten away with this for years and years and years. Like, I'm untouchable. And I'm rich. And I'm rich. But you would think, I mean, they had already, They were wanted posters out for them and they're like, you know, we'll post for a couple of photos in New York. Like, look at our beautiful clothing and how rich we are. Eventually, they did decide it was time to go to Argentina. And on February 20th, 1901, the three of them set sail for Argentina. They eventually made it out to the ranch lands of Gussaman, Argentina, where they set up their own cabin and they began cattle farming. So they went for exactly what they wanted to do. They were both very established cowboys, cattlemen, And we can do this. We can go down here and create a life here. And they were in a very remote and

beautiful area of the country. And they settled really well in there. They enjoyed it. And they even wrote letters to home to relatives. And Butch wrote in one letter that historians have read now and still have proof of. It says, I own 300 cattle, 500 heads of sheep and 28 riding horses. I have two helpers, a nice room for house, barns, a stable, and a hen house. The only thing I need is a cook since I am unpleasantly single and many times feel lonely. That, oh my God, breaks my heart. I was just going to ask, because I'm trying to do the mental math. So he's probably, what, in his early 30s at this point? Yeah. Or so. Maybe even in his 40s. Or in his 40s. Yeah. And he's just with the Sundance Kid and his girlfriend. Yeah. And it's just him. And he's just been an

outlaw his entire life, just like running around and never settled down. Right. Or had time to maybe cultivate a stable relationship of any kind. And now he's in a completely different country and starting a whole new life. And it just doesn't seem like his life didn't scream, I have a stable relationship with somebody. Like I have, I've met a love, I'm married or anything. But in that same letter, he's like, I own 300 cattle. You know, I have people who work for me. I have a stable. I have a barn. I have a house. So whatever he's doing in Argentina, although he's very single and lonely, he's very financially successful. Without love, that stuff doesn't mean anything.

So true. It's like money doesn't mean a... What's that money? Money don't mean a thing. I'm not going to start singing. Okay. I don't know. Their life of settling down into like this ranching life and hanging out and just like enjoying Argentina was very short-lived though.

On February 14th, 1905, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid went straight back to their old ways and they held up a bank in Argentina and they left with over $100,000. Okay, so that's got to be at least $3 million. Yeah, it's astronomical amounts of money. I mean, honestly, though, how do you even give that up? Like, you just walk into a bank, you do your little thing and you walk out with a hundred grand versus you hang out on a cattle farm for years and years that never make that money. Like, I can, I get it.

Are you encouraging a life of crime? I'm not encouraging it, but like, if you know how to do it. Well, it's something that they're used to. It's encouraging it, but if you don't get caught and you're not stealing from, like, me or anyone in need. It's an institution. They're like, you don't need this. Yeah. Shortly after this bank heist that they committed,

Butch Cassidy learned that one of his neighbors had realized who he was. And not only as the bank robber, but also as the prolific outlaw in America. I'm somehow surprised that that made its way down to Argentina. I don't know how it would. Don't you think that's kind of weird? Yeah. I have no idea how it would. And I don't know if like maybe the Sundance kid got drunk and like told his neighbor one time.

Like I don't know how it would ever get out in that aspect. But it did. And I don't know if maybe at this time there was there was a lot of cattle ranching down there. So I don't know if maybe people from America were like actively going down to Argentina and it like got out. But somehow his neighbor figured it out. And naturally, Butch Cassidy started getting really nervous. It's like the authorities in the U.S. We're going to come after him again.

Like, what do I do now? And they decided we can't stay here. We have to leave. So the three of them fled again from Patagonia to Bolivia. At this time, the Sundance Kid's girlfriend, Etta, she disappears from history. What? After 1907, there's no history. There's no evidence.

of what has happened to her. Like we have no idea. And she has, I haven't touched on her story much because I think that she's kind of a totally different story, but she is one of the biggest mysteries of women in the Wild West. What? Yeah. And I think that she's a totally different story, but she was like an accomplice. And people just don't know much about her.

A lot of people don't know, was she educated? Was she a woman from a brothel? Who was she? How was she so involved with the Sundance kid? And what happened to her after 1907? There's just so much. And there's a way bigger story that I haven't personally researched yet. But there's books written about her.

There's so much story about her that I could go. This would be a four-parter if I jumped into her story. That's very interesting. Yeah. And it just seems so, I don't know, just kind of like, do you think, I don't know, like you said, you didn't really look too much into it. But do you get a sense from your research that she was maybe a victim of foul play or that she just like abandoned like the operation entirely.

You know my thought, and I say this in respect that I have not done research on her whole story, but just that she was involved with such a prolific outlaw gang and she was the girlfriend in a time when women were not highly respected. My thought initially with very little research into her is what she murdered. How does she just disappear from history entirely? Or did she escape? Did was there something going on? Like, I feel like there's not some happy story of why she suddenly disappeared out of history.

No, of course not. Like, oh, I don't want to be part of this life anymore. I'm going to head out. Like, she's already in it. She's already part of it. Well, and you also never know if people could probably be screaming at us. Like, I know what happened. Like, I've done the research on this.

And we're just like, we don't know, even though the answer is probably right on Google. But it just seems like maybe that. she, because of her position, with such a wanted criminal, the Sundance Kid, that maybe she was used as some sort of, you know, like we have your girlfriend and, like a hostage situation. And it came down to it that Sundance Kid was like, okay. Okay, bye. I'm not giving up my money. I worked hard for that. You know, like an interesting thought that I never really thought of. And then maybe she just kind of disappeared from history because the people who ended up taking it. her if it didn't work out in their favor, they didn't want to incriminate themselves of,

okay, we took this woman and held her hostage and it didn't work out in her favor. So we just let her go. No, like maybe they killed her. I don't know. I'm just totally making shit up. But it's just like, I didn't do enough research on her. But I did see like in my research, I did see a lot of people were like we, she just fell out of history. We don't know what happened to her. So my initial thought with very little background into it. is that whatever happened to her was not a positive thing. Okay, I'm looking at her picture right now. Yeah.

Yeah, at a place, 1878 to question mark. Mm-hmm. Wow. No one knows about her. Her fate remains unknown. Wow. So maybe another story that we'll have to dive into at another time. Yeah.

Okay. All right, I'm putting my phone down and we're continuing. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops With hungry eyes, your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night.

And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. So she disappears from history in 1907 and no one knows what happens to her, but the Sundance Kid and Bush Cassidy escaped to Bolivia. And they don't go back there to live their ranching days and like just hang out and whatever.

I mean, they have to be really greedy at this point because they continue their train robbing days when they head there. And they robbed gold mining carts and they often robbed payroll boxes that were at the thing. So they were essentially doing exactly what they were doing in the U.S. And they headed down to Argentina. Things didn't go well there. They went to Bolivia and started again. So you may answer this later on, but when you said that Butch Cassidy thought he was double crossed, and he actually wasn't in reality, just the train arrived later. Why didn't anyone tell him that?

I think it's just maybe he didn't believe that. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if maybe it was a lack of communication after that because it sounds like he fell off the grid after that. Like he just, he dipped out of Utah and headed to Texas after he thought that the railroad wasn't interested. Okay. Because in my mind, I'm like, okay, so if his random farmer neighbor in Bolivia could figure out who he was, they could certainly send word like, hey, there was just a, the train was late. In actuality, we still have a deal. You know, like, yeah, it just seems like such a easy fix. I don't know if it was because he was, he was in hiding all the time. Like, people, a lot of the times had no idea where he was because he was always in these very remote areas. So that's such a good point, though. But I don't know. know if like at that point he would be like no i'm i was there and nothing you know like i just don't know

but it sounds like for the most part after that he was very elusive and on the run and trying to leave gotcha so they're continuing all their heists and train robberies in bolivia on november 4th 1908 they held up a payroll shipment near tepisa bolivia and after they rode off into a small village of san valencia bolivia they approached a small hotel where they sought refuge and unfortunately for Butch Cassidy, when he arrived at the hotel, he had brought along with him a mule that the hotel owner recognized to be from a farm that was from a friend of his that had been recently stolen during a train heist. Okay. The owner, when he recognized this mule, he slipped out of the hotel and he headed down the street and he informed the Bolivian Calvary. So he's not just

like telling one person, he's telling like literally a military force. They all came back to the hotel on horseback and started yelling to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid to surrender and that they were caught and that they knew where they were. Instead of surrendering, the two of them drew out their rifles and began firing at the Calvary. In an attempt to grab another rifle and more ammunition, the Sundance Kid crossed a small courtyard and when he was running back, he was under fire from the Calvary and he was shot down. Butch Cassidy then ran out and dragged him back to a sheltered area. When the gunfire stopped for a moment, a Bolivian soldier approached the spot where they had been hiding, and he was shot and killed by a single gunshot wound from Butch Cassidy. A moment

later, screams of desperation were heard inside the hut, followed by a single gunshot and then another. It was nightfall at this point, and the Calvary decided that they would wait until morning light to enter the area. That following morning, when they walked through the doors, they found the bodies of two people. It appeared who they believed to be the Sundance Kid was slumped against the wall. He had a couple bullet holes in his body and one in his head. Then lying next to him, who they believed to be Butch Cassidy with a single bullet hole indicated that he had shot himself. It seemed to them that Butch Cassidy had killed the Sundance Kid after his fatal injuries and then he turned the trigger on himself so neither of them could ever be caught. And you have to remember too in this,

Butch Cassidy, up until this point, there was never any record of him killing anyone. Oh yes, I did. Forget about that. So he is said to have shot that soldier who walked up, which is the first person he has ever killed in the history of his like two decade old robbery rings. However, the people who identified the men to be Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had only seen them during a robbery where the two men had worn masks. While the descriptions of them were similar to the men, there were no photos ever taken of the bodies to prove that they were the outlaws to be Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And the people who identified them said, yeah, these are the people who robbed the bank. But when Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid robbed it, they were wearing masks. Okay, so were these bodies,

bodies of the Calvary men, some of the Calvary. These were definitely bodies of two men, but because there was no like solid evidence and no pictures of these bodies that were ever taken, people really started a question, is this actually Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? Or is this some random outlaw that you came upon and started firing against? And rumors started to take place that the men had actually escaped and they had fled Bolivia. And then there were sightings that started to pop up all over South America, Mexico, and into the United States of the two of them. Okay, I was confused. So I thought that it really was them two in the shootout. Mm-hmm.

And that somehow they ended up killing two Calvary men and posing them as themselves so they could escape. I'm like, well, wouldn't the other Calvary men recognize that it was two of their own right away? But so they're just like they're thinking that, or at least for the sake of this part of the story, that it's been lost to history who these people actually were. They could have been totally different. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance could couldn't have even really potentially been involved in that particular shootout. They might have never even been there. But someone decided that this mule was someone's mule who was in a train robbery essentially and stolen. And it was assumed it was Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. So they went after them. But the person who identified them as Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had never seen their faces. I, okay, it's coming together. I got it. I was a little confused for a second, but I got it. And there were never any photos taken of the bodies either to confirm that they matched the photos that we had of the Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy.

So now all these rumors are coming up that there are sightings of them all over South America, up to Mexico, and then they start being seen in America. sightings of the two of them began being reported in Utah and Colorado, and family members insisted that the two of them had never been killed. Sightings continued to be reported in the 1920s into the 1930s. Lula Parker Benison, who was Butch Cassidy's sister, wrote a book in 1925 that she called Butch Cassidy My Brother, and in it she wrote that her brother visited her hometown of Circleville, Utah in 1925 to visit his dying father and attend a family. wedding. She also wrote that the story, he was the man killed in Bolivia, had been started by a friend of Cassidy to stop authorities from pursuing him. Ah, a diversion. A diversion. She claimed that Butch Cassidy hid out in Washington State. Oh, hello. We're in Washington. Here we are. And lived out the rest of his life there until he died of old age in 1937. Here in Washington. Here in Washington. She also claimed that he was buried in an unborn.

marked grave, which only his family knew the location to. This is taking a turn. This is taking a turn. It's just like, was he ever caught? Who? Apparently not. Like, and this is all rumor and speculation, but his sister wrote this book. I mean, maybe I would say, you know, there's a question of like, well, why would she lie?

But if there was financial incentive for writing a book, maybe. But in 1991, researchers Daniel Buck and Ann Meadows, who had been research. the case of Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid, and their deaths, employed a forensic anthropologist to help find the truth of their demise. The robbers that were killed that day were buried in a cemetery in that town. In Bolivia. In Bolivia. Clyde Snow, the renowned forensic anthropologist who had been known for identifying the remains of Nazi war criminal Josef Mengel, and he is like the one who like performed all these crazy. He was really bad.

He performed all these medical experiments. Experiments on people. And he was also known to be like one of the most horrific Nazis ever. Clyde Snow got the permission of the Bolivia authorities to exume their bodies. They were brought to the gravesite by an elderly villager whose father had witnessed the shootout and then they unearthed their remains. After a thorough and detailed forensic analysis, comparing their DNA, To those of living relatives of the Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy, they found that there was no match at all, which indicated that these two men in these graves were not Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. While it is possible that the grave was not theirs, the mystery of how they died and where they are buried is still one that remains to this day.

So what happened to the Sundance Kid? And does anyone know? Because we have kind of pieces of the puzzle, supposedly from Butch Cassidy's sister. Yep. But does the Sundance Kid kind of just fall off the map? I love your question so much because... Oh. There is one woman in Utah named Marilyn Grace, who is a historian that has been researching this for many years, and she's written several books about it. She has claimed that actually both of them are buried in Utah, and she speculates that they actually died there.

She also has claimed to have found Butch Cassidy's remains at Parker Ranch in Little Dog Valley. And she has also claimed to have found the hidden identity of the Sundance Kid, the identity he went by after Bolivia. So when he returned to the U.S. after that, she has claimed she has figured out who he was pretending to be in the states. She found a Utah outlaw by the name of Henry Long. There are photos of them that look very similar to each other. They have very similar facial features. And when exhuming his body from a grave in Utah, they found him to have died in 19. 36 from a bullet hole to the head.

But very interesting. They said that they're waiting on DNA results from those remains. And when I tried to do any research of what they found from those results, I can't find anything. So they found this remains of this person who they think is a Sundance kid. And they tested the DNA. And I can't find any research confirming or denying if it was him. Do you know what year that was that was all happening?

This was recently. I think this was like in the 2000s. Okay. So potentially up to like 15, 20 years ago. Yeah. So she's basically calling out the sister saying, well, you're saying that he lived out the rest of his life in Washington and was buried in an unmarked grave in the state because she's claiming that in reality he was, he did live past the Bolivian incident. But he was actually in Utah with the Sundance Kid. Well, she's, I don't think she's so much saying that his sister was lying. because she stated that he was in an unmarked grave in only a location that the family knew. Oh, okay. So she is like, I found his grave. I think I know where both of them are buried.

And I think I found who the Sundance Kid was after he escaped his life of crime. Yeah. But I couldn't find anything that said if the DNA evidence resulted in anything and if that was them. but it's just kind of like this huge mystery of what happened to them. And did they literally spend their entire lives on the run and escape all law enforcement and everything? Well, I have a question. Okay. That's kind of like what happened to the money.

I don't know. Because if they, I mean, certainly they could have lived off it for the rest of their lives. Say they did escape the Bolivia. I think we can all kind of collectively say. Yeah, they got out of Bolivia. Where they wound up, how long they lived, how they died, where they're buried is up for debate. But clearly, the two people that everyone thought they were for many years were not. So they clearly escaped with lots of money.

They could have lived off it for the rest of their lives, but I feel like that would have flagged attention if they were living lavishly. So I would think that they would have. have lots of money left over. So where is it? I mean, maybe the family has it. But also, they don't really have a history of spending their money wisely. And even though they were hiding, it doesn't mean they weren't gambling or in brothels. That's true. So, like, I wouldn't be surprised if, like, there's some family money somewhere from them or, like, maybe they literally just went home to Utah and just blew it all in brothels and gambling and then lived a quiet life. in Utah somewhere in Washington.

So one of them, she's thinking it was the Sundance Kid, died from a self, did she say self-inflicted gunshot wound? No, just a gunshot wound. Because I can just imagine them just being like, this is it. I'm old or I'm injured or I'm out of money or I'm about to get caught or the gigs up and just kind of ended their own life. It's like we did it, we made it, like we're good to call it at this. Yeah, who knows?

There's just such a mystery that this could go in so many directions. Like maybe they really did die in Bolivia. But why are there so many sightings of them other places? Why would a sister say that? And also just like how elusive and wild they were, I can totally see how they would escape and live out their lives undetected in the U.S. And that was so a good 25 years or so, right, after the Bolivian incident. Yeah. Because that was the early 1900s and this is 1936.

7 time frame. That's a long time. They're just, yeah, it's just such a mystery. And I think that's why so many people have been drawn to the story. I mean, there's movies about it. There's so many books about Bich Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And I think it's because one, they successfully committed so many crimes. And there's like kind of this misconception that goes with them of Butch Cassidy was kind of like a Robin Hood where he stole from the rich and gave to the poor, which wasn't necessarily true because he did steal from the rich, but it was a lot for his own income. And when it was convenient for him, he would try and help people who were less fortunate. But for the most part, it was just like, I'm just trying to get rich. It was self-indulgent. It wasn't like any sort of charitable.

Yeah. It's not like I'm going to steal and give all of it right back. Yeah. It was definitely for his own benefit. Yeah, for sure. And I guess going back to the beginning of this episode where I decided to highlight Capitol Reef. Yeah. Like, what do we? doing here? So Robbers Roost is in the Capitol Reef area and it is a trail. I was looking into it and there are ways to get to it, but it sounds like it's a little bit grueling and difficult. So I'm not going to be here and be like, hey, you guys should go out to this trail because I think that it probably requires a lot more research on this trail than I could do. But it is in the Capitol Reef area. And that's why I chose it because Robert's Roost was such an infamous hideout for them. But I also chose to talk about

Capitol Reef National Park at the very beginning of this episode because throughout Utah, there are a lot of things named after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but one in particular that I found is the Cassidy Arts Trail. And it is located in the central portion of Capitol Reef National Park. It is one that's accessible and it is one that people can do. And it is a 3.1 mile out and back trail, which is considered moderately challenging with a steep incline at the beginning of the trail, and it's a very popular trail for hiking and rock climbing. It's this very beautiful trail. It's filled with stunning rock scenery, and it ends with a view of what is called Cassidy Arch. And it is named after Butch Cassidy and essentially the Sundance Kid

and the Wild Bunch because they were known to hide out in the hills of Capitol Reef National Park. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I think another reason that people are maybe drawn to their story other than just how wild impressive it is is because of their lack of violence that definitely i mean obviously like you said it doesn't mean that every single person that was associated with the wild bunch was a saint because obviously i think we can kind of throw that out the window yeah but as far as him and the way that he operated and kind of held a standard his compassion for animals, people, kind of just like a no violence and less absolutely necessary type of thing. In a time that violence was pretty commonplace and almost to be

expected. I think that kind of sets him and this story apart from every other Wild West type of outlaw. Yeah, he was so successful with no violence. Threats. Threats. Lots of threats and lots of intimidation. scare tactics. And I say no violence, but there was definitely like throwing people over the counter, like pushing the, holding a gun to people. Like, I mean, it was violent, but I should say without murdering people. He was doing this. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's a super interesting story. And I was like, wow, it makes me look at Utah a little bit different. And I've definitely been to these areas. And I'm like, wow, I wish I had known all this history when I was in these like crevices and driving through. I mean,

he was in Canyonlands and arches and Capitol Reef and there were stories of him in Zion and he's up in Grand Teton's Dinosaur National Monument like and he goes down I mean he's in Texas and Mexico and it's just really incredible how far this reached out west yeah that's awesome I really enjoyed this kind of turn of story because it's just so different it's so different we haven't talked about this ever at all yeah well Thank you for making it two parts because I, as much as I wanted to hear it all at once, I did kind of like the breakup. And it is a mystery kind of reminds me of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. Yes.

Like, what the fuck happened? There are so many questions around it. And there's so much mystery after their supposed deaths. Right. Yeah. And it's kind of just like there are a lot of really legitimate alternative. Like it's not just like one seems like an absolute this definitely happened. It could go a lot of different ways. And that's what gives it character, like the story itself. You know, it's just like,

God, what happened? And I think it's really cool that we'll probably never know. Yeah. It's just one of those things that will always be speculation. But even with this mystery, we can still visit places where this happened. Like there's Butch Cassidy's cabin in Wyoming where you can still visit today. It's still standing. You can go to this arch trail and Capitol Reef. There's so many things in Utah that are named after them. And it's like, even though you don't know what happened, you can still walk into history a little bit of where these things do place. Even if you don't know the conclusion. Yeah. Yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you again for sharing that. If anyone has been on that trail or knows what happened to Edna. Yes, to Anna. I'm like, what I mean, obviously, I kind of

looked it up a little bit, like, while we were talking. And it's just a lot of question marks. Yeah. But if anyone has any, like, actual insight, that would be really cool. Or any information about that DNA test. Yes, please, because I looked it up and I could not find anything. Yeah. And you guys got connections. Yeah. So, please let us know. Awesome. Okay. Well, thanks everyone for hanging in there for a two-parter. We won't do it to you again for maybe another year. We'll never do it to you again one year later. One year later. Yeah. We will see you on Monday. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Goodbye. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale you'd like to share, send us an email at NPAD Stories at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast.

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