National Park After Dark - Outside for All: How Ranger the Dog Made National Park History

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

After Brad was diagnosed with late onset epilepsy, he and his epilepsy alert service dog Ranger decided to set off on a journey across the US National Park system to prove that living with a disability shouldn't stand as a barrier to accessibility, because the outdoors are for everyone.You can follow Brad and Ranger’s journeys @‌rangerlovestravelLearn about the NPS America the Beautiful Interagency Access Pass HEREFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Apostrophe: Use our link and code NPAD to get your first visit for only $5.Skylight Frames: Use our link and get $15 off a Skylight Frame.Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off your first subscription. Plus 15% off and free shipping on all future subscription orders.Zocdoc: Use our link to download the Zocdoc app for free.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We have another episode today where we're doing a really cool interview. Yeah, we have some really fun guests today because we're going to talk about some real-life adventures into the national parks, which obviously is our favorite to talk about. Yeah, so for today's guest episode, we are bringing you a truly inspirational story of two people and their dog. So Brad Haley and Rangers, Adventure of a Lifetime,

and they set out to visit all 63 National Parks, which is something I think we can all relate to on a certain level. We all want to check them all off the list. But this adventure is a little different than others, as Ranger is a dog, of course. he's part Australian kelp and part Malamu. And normally dogs aren't allowed inside of most national parks here in the United States, but Ranger is specifically trained as a service animal,

which makes him the first dog to ever visit all 63 national parks. So such a big accomplishment. His dad, Brad Saylor, was diagnosed with late onset epilepsy in his early 30s, and that is when Ranger came into his life. He is specially trained as an epilepsy alert dog. His duties are to alert Brad if he is about to have a seizure and also to help alert others if he does have one so that people who are nearby can jump in and assist Brad during a medical emergency.

Brad, who worked at EMS and disaster response for years and had dreams of becoming a National Park Ranger, had his career halted with his new diagnosis. But with that, a new dream was formed and it wasn't long before him, Ranger, and Haley hit the road to visit all 63 national parks. with the goal to raise awareness around accessibility in the outdoors for all people. Today, they will join us to tell us about their experiences, adventuring around the country with Ranger, how they made history, and what they learned along the way.

We're so excited to welcome Brad, Haley, and, of course, Ranger. Hello, Brad and Haley. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Welcome to National Park After Dark. We are thrilled to have you here. Thank you. We are super stoked as well. This is very exciting. Thanks for having us, ladies.

Of course. We have obviously heard about your journey. You visit all 63 national parks. That's correct, right? I finished with Ranger yet. Haley left halfway through the trip. But still checked off a lot of national parks. A bunch of national parks.

That's an exciting adventure. And I know it's definitely something that is on a lot of people's list, especially within the United States. It's kind of like a, it's like almost like a badge of honor to be like, hey, I've seen, I've gone to every national park. And Brad, you did, you said you did all 63 and you did it with your dog. Yes. He was the famous one. He's the one with the world record. Yeah, he's the first dog to ever visit all 63 national parks, right? Absolutely. Ah, amazing. We love a heartwarming dog story. And of course, a human story behind that too. But before we get into both of your

stories and how you got into the national parks and everything, can we just, learn a little bit about the two of you, where you're from, how you met each other, what led to this trip? Sure. Actually, so I had had a flood at my house in Waco last summer and it destroyed most of my things. And Ranger was a puppy. He was only six months old at the time and trying to figure out what to do from there. It basically came to mind that, you know, like, let's just load what's left in the Explorer and go to every national park. It's something I've always wanted to do. to do and I had driven up to Salida, Colorado, actually, to kind of finish getting stuff ready and making my plan, kind of figure out how to brand this project because, you know, a large part of it was

bringing awareness to service animals and people with disability. So Haley met Ranger and gave me her a number because she wanted to see Ranger again. And she helped me brand, finish branding. And And two weeks later, we were on the road last minute. Yeah. So it's funny because we both came from Texas but found each other in Colorado. I had a road trip kind of end abruptly. And like Brad said, I ran into the dog. And love at first sight for Ranger and I.

Oh, that's so sweet. And you're both originally from Texas? Yep. Are you? Yeah. I've been back and forth between Texas and Colorado, my whole. life. So I'm kind of, I'm a Texer Radin. Okay. There you go. I love that. Were you both half from in Texas? Were you from the same area? Yeah, pretty much both of us, Austin, right, Haley?

Yeah. Oh, cool. And then you didn't meet until Colorado? Correct. Very cool. So your journey, obviously, everyone wants to do the 63 U.S. National Parks. People are trying to do that. You know, they have their list, their maps, scratch off, sticker, whatever. And of course, it's a big dream for a lot of people. But as you kind of mentioned, you had a different kind of driving factor for wanting to visit all 63 parks. You had a little bit of a different twist on it. And that's because Ranger isn't just a pet dog.

He's your service animal. So can you tell us a little bit about him and your journey that led you guys together, got you together? Because I know you said he was only six months last year. Sure. Yeah. So, yeah, I have epilepsy. And I had my previous service animal had passed away earlier in the year.

And Ranger just kind of fell into my lap. That's how dogs happen. They just kind of find you. So we trained him up and he's my alert dog for seizures. And that's that's Ranger. Can't go anywhere without him. He's a road dog. He goes everywhere I go pretty much.

And you say he just kind of came into your life. how did how did that happen? Like how did you find ranger specifically? I was in Waco and I had met these people that were treating him very well. They had had a litter of puppies on accident on their ranch and they were just kind of in the back and not good situations. And I was just like, this is my dog. So yeah, he's a cattle dog.

I think it's an interesting story going from his original dog to I think Brad wasn't expecting to get another dog too quickly because of that loss. And, you know, Ranger arrived. Just found, like you said, found you. I have to ask, did you name him Ranger? Because it seems very fitting for the National Park System journey. I didn't. It was before the National Park thing ever came up.

And I had put up on my Facebook, does anyone have any Ranger idea names? And it was actually my cousin, Julie, who picked the name. She put it in the comments like, Ranger. And I was like, perfect. It's a cute name too. It is so cute. It's very fitting. And he said he's a cattle dog.

Yeah, he's a kelpie. So he's a type of Australian cattle dog. Amazing. And I have to ask, so you got him from a ranch and he fell into your lap and now he's a trained service dog. What were the steps to get him to become a trained service dog? So a lot of it is just working with him yourself. that's the biggest part of it. And then he went to a six-week training outside of San Antonio.

That was basically service doggy boot camp. And he came out of that. Perfect. And I still work with them. It's, you know, a continuing thing. But you know, they train him up. And he was good to go. So he's trained to alert you when you're about to have a seizure. Is that correct? He knows. Those are kind of cues that I can pick up on. But yes, and he's he's also trained to aware others if I have a seizure. So what does that, what does he do in those scenarios? If I were to have a seizure. Yeah.

But he would just lose his mind and go find people and bark and try and bring them back my way, basically. So I have the type of epilepsy that I have. I have a partial temporal lobe seizures. So I don't actually go down into full grandmalls, though that has happened about five times in my life. My epilepsy started when I was 31 out of the blue and nobody knows why. So I've never really actually had a full grand mal in front of Ranger that had that he's been in a situation where he just had to do that. You can train them. You basically fake having a seizure here. And he he knows when

you're about to have a seizure as well. If I'm going to have a partial seizure, I kind of just check out for 30 minutes or 30 seconds and kind of go into my own world and he doesn't know. That's so incredible that dogs can understand things like that and be trained to help people in such an amazing and important way. And you mentioned briefly in that you said in your 30s, you were diagnosed out of the blue with epilepsy. What was it that happened that led you to being diagnosed? I had a major grand mal. I was living in Missoula at the time. And I just, I don't remember it. I had a major. your grandmall that put me in the ICU. From what I understand, I seized for a few weeks straight. I was basically in a coma. They couldn't get the seizures to stop. They didn't know why. They still don't

know why. And when I woke up, they said, you have epilepsy. You shouldn't be alive. But for some reason, you're here. And from then on, I've had epilepsy. Wow. What was that like when you woke up? Because I imagine you woke up in the hospital and got this news. What was that like when you first were hearing this. It was shocking. I kind of had a out of body near death experience. I know a lot of people do. I remember being above my body watching myself get a spinal tap and then it was just whoosh right back into my body. And coming out of that of two weeks of straight seizures, my brain was pretty fried and infantile. So I wasn't really understanding it. It took a while and people telling me over and over again, you know, this is what happened to you. And when it finally clicked,

But, you know, that's a hard thing to hear to know that that's just something that you're going have to deal with the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's huge. It's my dad, he later in life, he suffers from seizures pretty significantly now. And his is from sleep apnea, they think, but they're not totally sure, but it changed his life.

And this was about 10 years ago for him. And I know for him, he had to start medications and do things. Do you, because they don't know what it's caused by or anything, do you, do you, have to take medications that help manage them now? Lots of had medication. Yeah. But big horse pill looking things. Yeah. That was for me too. I was like, man, I have to take medication for the rest of my life every day. But it's just something you get used to. You get used to it. Yeah. I've had for me, I have to take medications every day. And it's like, it just becomes a, it sucks, but it's also like, becomes part of your routine and it keeps you. It keeps you well. So I'd rather take

medication than have seizures. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. On the road, you know, you're moving constantly. So like, we had an alarm set as a reminder, you know, because you never know what's going to be going on while you're traveling. So just every day at 9.30 a.m., you know, beep, beep, beep. Yep. Especially if they have to be 12 hours apart. It's like, okay, you got to take them right now. And an alarm sicken. Bailey set the alarm. She was my service person. You had a service dog and a service person. You're set. It's like, please take your medication. So taking the medication obviously is something that has changed. You know, it's kind of like from that day that you've had your first seizure, it seems like your life was kind of divided, you know, everything before that and after that you had, you know, kind of two different versions of what your life is now. So before your seizures, did you have anything like dreams or aspirations or your day-to-day

life obviously was changed, but it seemed like your life completely pivoted after that. So can you talk to us a little bit about that and just how you've been and what has changed? Sure. Yeah. After that happened, my life kind of fell apart and went in a lot of different directions. I've been in emergency services my whole life. An EMT, a remote medic, I've done wildland fire. I do disaster response in my entire adult life.

That's what I've done. So when those seizures first happened, it was kind of like, yeah, that's out the door now. because, you know, when you're working with a patient, I can't have a seizure and go down, and then you have two patients. And it's a bad thing. I also have two daughters. And when they first happened, it was basically I couldn't be alone with my daughters. They were really young at that time.

And for me to go down and have a seizure and it just be them, also not good. So. And it took, it took years to, you know, working with a neurologist and getting the medication and right and not driving for two years to finally, you know, figure out what worked and fall back into a flow. But, you know, everything previous to those seizures, that was my life. So trying to figure out what to do going forward was very difficult for me. It was a new disability. And I still guess I don't really know what I'm doing in life. The National Park project was a big thing. I wanted to, like I said, spread awareness because it was so close to me. And Ranger being my service. service animal literally allows me to do this and allowed me to do that. So now I'm just kind of

taking things easy. I'm writing a book about our journey and I'm starting this podcast and I'm just finding things in my life that I can do now that aren't so high stress or dangerous. Sure. I would argue that the trip was a little high stress, but it was definitely something like, you know, Brad and I came together at a point where we both were pivoting. in our life, you know, he was coming back from the seizures and, like, it was just the perfect time for a road trip. And, you know, we, we kind of call our journey changing roads, which is exactly what we did when we found each other in Salida, we both just kind of said, let's split, let's go do this. And when you started, did you have that goal of all the national parks or was it just let's go on

a road trip and start seeing these national parks? Definitely have the goal of all national parks. Yeah. Yeah, I had sat down. I had tried to, you know, write down a budget and draw a lot of map and, you know, kind of do all these preparations, which go out the window a few weeks after you start the trip. And you mentioned in this, of course, a huge drive behind visiting all these national parks is to advocate for people who are living with disabilities. How did you do that along your trip? So initially, you know, we went through social media was a big place that we could have

our voice and spreading that out and spreading our social media, talking to be. people along the road. Everybody wants to know, you know, our story. All the park rangers wanted to know the story. And then we got really lucky going through it and we caught the eye of the National Park Service. I was, I've been on their podcast. They had me do a seminar for the big wigs at Department of Interior, the National Park Service, talking to them about it. Outside of Magazine wrote an article on us. Haley and I were on the news in Austin. So it kind of turned out that these opportunities kept popping up that allowed us to get our voice out there even more. That's amazing. And congratulations on all the success. And there's something I'm really curious

about with your journey and your experience. And obviously, I'm sure you ran into all types of people with, you know, curious about what you're doing, questions and all that. I was curious about potentially if you encountered any hiccups or hangups with people who didn't understand, especially Cassie and I, in case you didn't know, we have a background in veterinary medicine. We were veterinary technicians for many, many years. And we have encountered a lot of people with service animals that have disabilities, both seen and unseen, which is a whole other thing, you know, epilepsy, you can't look, I can't look at you and know you have epilepsy. Whereas someone who is maybe visually impaired, it's very clear they need a service animal. So there's a lot of people who

have issues with the general public who may not understand that. And then also there's the whole like emotional support animal versus service animal and who's allowed, who isn't what's, you know, so I was just curious if you ran into any of that. I get riled up even thinking about it because it happened, you know, quite a bit. Like one of the clearest examples was on the ferry to Catalina Island. And there was like a Yorkie wearing an emotional support vest. And then we had our full grown service animal in an actual vest and people like there people want to argue with you sometimes about it you know it's unclear and like you said with a not visible disability it's just like they bite and you're kind of like can you just leave us be you know we're not in your way my dog's not misbehaving you know like are you talking

about random people that you encountered or people who were in authoritative role of where you were well both but like the random people were the most annoying because it's kind of like please just leave us like alone. And then, you know, Park Rangers specifically like they're like in Yosemite, we had to explain ourselves quite a bit because dogs aren't allowed around most of that area. So everyone who's in charge there wants to stop and, you know, they're doing their job, but make sure that what's happening is legitimate. Yeah, I think it was the general public that we had ran into the most problems with people being really aggressive actually. And kind of you touched on the whole emotional support animal and medical service animal thing. And that's, it's a reality. And I think that there's

a stigma behind it that got really brought into the public with people bringing animals on airplanes and, you know, kind of tricking the system and using that, you know, the ADA laws to basically bring their pet places. So I think that it put people on the automatically on a, not a defensive, but almost an aggressive side. Everybody wants to question you. Like you felt like people didn't believe that ranger is a real service animal? We were yelled at by people, like, aggressively screamed at and yelled that. Oh, my God. Just out of the blue. And sometimes we'd try to go into, like, an establishment and they'd argue, and it was almost just like, fine. We won't come in here. Like, it's not worth the argument type of thing. What kind of things were people saying to you,

where they were just coming up to you and felt that they could yell at you in this way? Just straight saying that's not a service animal for no reason. Just like. to our faces walking up like Haley had brought up getting on to the ferry at Catalina and this this man came up to us just one of the passengers and he said, your dog's not allowed on the ferry and Rangers wearing his vest and we're like, he's a service animal, you know, and actually he's he is allowed to get on the ferry and he was like, no, that is not a service animal and he's not getting on the ferry. And he started screaming at us and just a random guy. We were waiting in line, just a random guy. And he walked up. He went

to go talk to the captain who was standing at the dock. And I'm sure the captain was just like, uh, yeah, he's a service animal. He can come on and the guy kind of stooped away and got very awkward and quiet. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L.

Every year after, the love hypothesis. Stirling Point and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Brad, maybe you can talk about the cards that we started carrying. Yeah, so actually I got a pack of cards. They're the size of a business card and it has the ADA laws and regulations.

So that's quite handy if we were ever questioned. Yeah, I was just going to ask if there's any sort of. of not that I'm saying you should have to do this, but any sort of paperwork or certificate or something that someone can visually look at and you can hand them, say, this is Ranger, this is what he does for me. This is his like, essentially like his qualifications, which shouldn't have to happen. But I think like you touched upon something shifted within the last few years as far as people having very strong opinions about animals in public.

spaces and not that anyone with a service animal should have to justify to a random stranger on the ferry to Catalina Island, you know what I'm saying, but just. So I did carry paperwork with me. It wasn't something that I offered to, you know, people in the public who wanted to argue about it. If there was someone in a position of authority, even though I'm not required to provide any type of paperwork, I did carry, you know, his training stuff, his Clarence from the vet, my letter for my neurologist. And I was more than willing to offer that up, partly because it helps people understand as well. It's no, he's legitimate and here's the paperwork. There's actually, and you probably know this, there's no actual

ADA certification for service animals. It's basically, it's basically third party is what it is. Okay. And I did write down for everyone who's listening just because I think that not everyone is familiar with what the ADA is. I did write it down in just a brief summary here because the ADA is the Americans with Disability Act, which prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities in several areas, including employment, transportation, public accommodations, communications, and access to state and local government programs and services, which includes the national park system, obviously. And it allows people with disabilities to use service animals who are not allowed in places that other animals would not be allowed in.

And under ADA regulations, service animals are stated to be as a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability. So obviously, Ranger meets all of that qualifications. And for people who maybe are not aware of this, this is something I think more and more people really need to know because it's not right that people are coming up to you. or honestly have the audacity to come up to you and question you or yell at you in a public space or in a private space in any space, honestly. Sometimes it seems like they just didn't have their coffee that morning and they were just

looking to pick a fight with somebody. Oh, my gosh. And actually, I learned later on in the trip through the National Park Service that the National Park Service itself does not fall under ADA laws. Oh. The National Park Service actually has their own statute when it comes to accessibility for people with disabilities. And it's basically exactly the same as ADA. There's some minor clauses in there about basically protection of the environment.

And with the natural environment and wildlife and other people being around, you know, you don't want to bring him to, like taking him to Cap Mai. I couldn't take him to Brooks Falls. Of course. Yeah. There's so many bears. And they're like, actually, no, it endangers, you know, the other people that are there because of the close proximity. So we had to get into Kat Mai on a float plane to a remote part of the island, but, or area. But yeah, it's just interesting that the National Park Service has its own statues.

But it makes perfect sense. Yeah. In addition to that, like getting to Catalina Island, we had to have him vet cleared. You have to present paperwork that, you know, he doesn't, that he's got all of his shots. You know, he's, like, been worm tested. Like, it was a bunch of hoops to get there specifically for me, at least. There was two national parks where you actually have to have that medical vet clearance. And that was Isle Royale.

You know, they have the predator prey popular study going on up there with the wolves and the moose. And then it was Channel Islands National Park. They have the endangered fox problem there. So those are actually the only two parks where I had to get official national park service clearance to be able to bring him in. through a vet. Interesting because I'm sure there's also, I mean, just drawing from our experience with our previous work at the animal hospital, you know, people going to certain places like Hawaii comes to mind right away with the different, you know, rabies tiders and different things, but that's to enter the state. That's not the park itself. Hawaii was the biggest pain in the butt ever.

I sure it was. Other people that have gone at all 63 national parks. have gone to Hawaii and they're like, that's going to be your white whale and you're not going to get past Hawaii and they have these long quarantine times. And in order to get Ranger in a place where he could bypass that whole quarantine process was a stack of paperwork, two inches thick and vet visit after vet visit after vet visit and the tiders and there's only three labs in the country that can actually, you know, do these tiders. It was a pain in the butt. But, But we did it. You did do it.

And the only reason he was able to bypass that quarantine was because he was a service animal. Just bringing any dog into Hawaii, you're not going to get that bypass. Yeah. I can't imagine they can quarantine a service animal because he obviously needs to be with you. So that seems like it would be illegal to quarantine him away from you. Very long process. That's for sure. And did you find the same thing? So going to Hawaii, but then going to Samoa for the National Park there. How was that?

Actually, the Samoas were very nice about it. They didn't. Going to Samoa and then coming back to Hawaii, which was the problem. Because, you know, we flew into Hawaii. We went into Samoa. We came back to Hawaii. We hopped islands to another island. And every single time we entered Hawaii, we had to go through basically the same process. We had different stacks of paperwork for each entry. And he had basically when he got to the airport, they'd take him to the quarantine center. And there would be a vet there waiting to check him out.

So he went to that same quarantine center to get checked out many times, different paperwork. So yeah, American Samoa, they were just like, yeah, bring them on in. That surprises me for some reason, only because it's one of the least visited national park. So I would just assume that it would be harder. But it's- Oh, yeah. Even getting to American Samoa, they have a huge, huge problem with feral dogs. Oh. They've basically turned into a pack of wild dogs generationally. I think they have like 1,500 bites a month.

They have these dogs, like attacking kids and like stocking people in the streets. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I had no idea. They just look like a pack of wolves just standing on every corner, eyeball in you. Did you see them with Ranger? Oh, yeah, they're everywhere. Did they react to him?

Yes. So Ranger, Ranger was kept close in American Samoa's. And, you know, it's mostly in the, you know, the popular, I say populated areas of Samoa. It's very small, but going into the actual national park, those places are really remote. And there's not wild dogs running around everywhere. So, but yeah, it was just interesting because Samoa. I was like, yeah, bring them on in. That's too funny.

It actually reminds me of something that happened in Zion and why, you know, dogs need to be kept on a leash. Like, Ranger was always on a tie off if we were camping, but like another dog just beeline at Ranger. And I know you're not supposed to get in the middle of dog fights, but like, mama bear, you know. And jumps in. Yeah. But, yeah, you know, if people were more responsible with even, you know, pet dogs,

there would be more ease at every process. Yeah. Ranger got attacked probably three times on this trip, like violently attacked by other dogs. And Rangers not a fight back type of dog. He just lays down and takes it. So you have Haley literally falling into the middle of these dogs. She got bit on the arm, like serious bites.

Oh, man. Oh, Haley not to jump in front of a dog fight. But to protect Rangers, she'll do it today, I guarantee you. Was this all within national park settings or just on your trip in general? That Zion experience was that a campground inside of the park. But another attack happened at a restaurant. Okay. Yeah.

That was an Astoria, Oregon. Oregon. Okay. Yeah. But even as a service animal, you know, he's kept on leash. He doesn't run free like Kaylee was saying in a campground. You know, we keep him on a long tieout. So he has room to be around.

But the leash laws are there for a reason, in my opinion. Yeah. Just ran into a lot of mean dogs that have no reason being off leash. That's for sure. No recall whatsoever. Yeah. So I think this is something that most of our audience are huge animal lovers, dog lovers. And I think a lot of people would kind of agree with the sentiment of there are leach laws in place for a reason.

and, you know, there's rules and regulations for a reason. And it's just ironic because every single person I've ever met that has a need for a service animal is the most responsible animal owner I have ever met. Follows everything to a tea, treats their animals perfectly. Everything is done by the book. And then on the flip side, we have also met many people day in and day out who are pet owners that don't need them for any service capacity. and they're like, oh, well, yeah, he's fine, and he can be off leash or he or she can just run loose,

or yeah, they're not technically allowed here, but he won't bother anyone. And it's like, I think that's kind of why a lot of people are on edge with any animal they see in any public space, because there are people like that. And it's hard to determine, like, what person is actually a responsible pet owner. And it's just, it's frustrating because it trickles down to people. like you guys and Ranger who have every right to be where you are together. Yet there's this like big, I don't know if stigma is the right word. It's just so we see it, you know, all the time and we're not even directly involved. So I can't imagine how frustrating that can be. Sure. And, you know, I think part of that is

as a service animal owner, we just in general, we have to know all the laws. And you're right, it takes a lot of responsibility to own a service animal. And I think that not, that just having a pet, you're not required to have as much of an understanding of those kinds of things. And I don't think that that's necessarily anyone's fault. It's just my focus and attention has to be on laws and regulations and making sure that everything's in place. Sure. And at the same time, we're also very respectful of where we go. You know, some people are just scared of dogs. And we don't, we've never pushed that. You know, yeah, he's allowed to go anywhere that I can go. But we, we, we keep a respectful distance from other people. Some people have allergies. People are scared of dogs.

People don't think that they need to be in restaurants. I would say we pick our battles. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And kind of going back, you're talking about you have to know the laws. And you obviously had to prepare a lot for Hawaii to go there. And there's these hoops and things that it sounds like kind of followed you throughout your entire journey. When you were doing the 63 national parks, did you find that there were certain places that were more accommodating and accessible for service animals than others? I guess. There's a lot of different parks that do a really good job with accessibility in general. A lot of the times seen disabilities. The unseen disabilities thing is something that I discussed with the National Park Service quite a bit. It's not as focused on, you know, it's not like putting braille signs in or building wheelchair ramps.

Sure. So you could look at a place like Badlands where there's really no trail system. You go anywhere you want. And places like that, it's kind of just like using your own judgment to keep a light footprint. And, you know, there's things like the narrows in Zion where you can't bring your dog up the narrows. It's not possible. Rangers are obviously not going over Angels Landing. But as far as just having a service animal in a park, every single park was extremely welcoming and accommodating.

and accommodating. There's, there's only a couple parks, like actual national parks that we went to where we ran into issues. But in general, yeah, the national park system is bring them on in. I think that that's really important for people to know, especially just hearing what you both have been saying about the difficulties you've had with just the general public. I think that it's important for people who do have service animals to know that the national park system is welcoming, because I know for me, if I was getting yelled at on the street and felt like my service dog and I were not welcome, I might not even try to do a trip like the one that you did. So to know that I think is really is really important for people who are listening right now.

Absolutely. It can be intimidating in general taking your service to animal out, much less into nature. And I think that I'm going to take that back. I was going to say that a lot of people that go to national parks or have a different mindset when it comes to nature and wildlife and animals, but that's not always the case. Yeah. You would think that. Yeah. I see where you are going with that. Like, you would think that. But yeah, then you see, you know, encounter certain people or

see, yeah. So a lot of types of people. A lot of people have never been to a national park. You know, you'll run into a family in Yellowstone, for example, that just doesn't understand how a national park works because maybe this is, you know, the only vacation that, you know, they'll get to take with their family in a decade. These aren't necessarily people that are out hiking every day or spending time in age. You know, these are the people that are out trying to pet the bears and stuff.

There is a group of people. And it's not necessarily their fault, like I said, that just aren't used to being in those environments. Sure. There were just times, too, though, that were really, you know, inspiring where, like, a kid would want to pet the dog and their parents would say, no, that's a working dog. Don't pet it. And that always kind of, you know, is encouraging.

Yeah. Like people are recognizing that he has the service harness on, that he is a service animal and they're respecting your space. And also teaching their children the, you know, the laws and the rules, which was really, really nice to see that there are people out there that truly understand, you know, don't go pet the service animal. He's working. Like Kaylee said, it's very refreshing to see people that understand those kinds of things because not in terms. Yeah. What types of changes do you think that need to be made to make this information more available to the general public to be more knowledgeable about this and to make these spaces more inclusive for all people? You know, that's something that I've been struggling with answering this entire time since I've had epilepsy. At the end of the day, I think that the only way to do that is to just be vocal about it and talk about it and spread that awareness as much as you can personally.

I don't really think that there's any solid platforms or training programs that, you know, you can push on the general public. Even the National Park Service is very well trained in handling service animals. So I don't think that there's any changes other than the fact that, you know, people with service animals can stand up and speak out and help the general public know what they are and what this is. And does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I think it's the role of the service animal owners to speak on behalf of every service animal owner. And that's the only way that that information is going to get out, in my opinion. Yeah. And it's also, you know, it shouldn't all be on people with service animals. Of course, that is a big part of it as far as educating people you encounter and doing your part in advocating for yourself and other people with service animals. But, The other half of it falls on the shoulders of everyone else just to be open-minded, understanding, empathetic, and to not jump to conclusions. And, you know, the outdoors are for everyone and everyone should be able to experience them. It's not reserved for certain people and not others or certain animals and not other.

You know what I'm saying? It's like I think it's a collaborative effort and something that I think in the last few years, I think, despite, you know, some. strong opinions and stuff. I think people are becoming more open and accustomed to it. And I think a lot of that does have to do with social media and people, like you said, using a platform or their voice to advocate for their situation and educate people along the way and spreading that around so that even if you don't encounter someone on the trail or out in public with a service animal, you're still aware for that if that ever was to happen. So you can be more understanding and accommodating and maybe not jump to conclusions. Like this is just someone who wants to take their dog outside or to a restaurant or

wherever. I agree. Yeah. Well, I think this also kind of goes on the other side of this too is that for people who are thinking about slapping a service animal sign on their dog, that is not a service animal. And to hear stories like yours where these dogs are important and they serve a real role. And it does affect people who need them because then you get Joe Schmoe over here yelling at people like you because they don't believe service animals are real. So I think that that hearing stories like this, I think we can all be like, okay, yes, we would love to take her dog inside of a restaurant that they're not allowed and that would be lovely. But the reality is that if you do that and if you put these signs on dogs and pretend that there's something that they're not, you're actually doing a lot of harm.

I absolutely agree. It does not make our situation easy these days as service animal owners. It compounds the problem and prevents it from getting better in a timely way. Yeah, it's like you get the brunt of the issue of the situation because people are doing this. Absolutely. You hear stories of people trying to bring an emotional support alligator to the airport. It's ridiculous. It's like put it back in the wild.

No one has an emotional support alligator. No, what was it, the peacock? Do you remember the peacock? Have you seen that? There's an emotional support peacock on a plane. And its tail was like in the aisle. I swear to God, look it up. But it's like, that's such a good point because it's like you can point to certain ones

like that and laugh because it's like, come on. Like really? But there are like the biggest problem isn't just those one-offs. It's the everyday day-to-day person who just really wants their animal with them. And it's not a train service animal and they're trying to kind of work the system. And in their minds, they're probably like, I'm not hurting anyone. Like, what is this? How is this affecting anyone negatively?

No one here on this airplane is affected. But that's not the point. The effect is to people like you guys and Ranger. You know, it's just it trickles down. And just for people to be a little more aware of that, just because you can't see it doesn't mean that it's not having an effect. And even that's about a little bit, when we're talking about unseen disabilities, and emotional support animals, it's important to understand that there's a difference between

emotional support animals and, for example, someone who has PTSD, that is a medical service animal. It's for a medical, psychological reason that they have that animal. That does not qualify as an emotional support animal. So there's a little bit of gray area in between that I don't think a lot of people quite understand. That's an important point for sure. I just think I think back to, this is many years ago, but I was trying to move into a townhouse. And I have two, I have two animals, just pets. And they didn't allow, I think it was like, it's the details are fuzzy.

But they either didn't allow dogs or didn't allow two. And I have two. And someone, like a family friend was like, I know where you can go to like get an emotional support animal certificate. And then they can't deny you because you have this and that. I'm like, but they're not emotional support. animals. You know what I mean? It's just like, okay, that's a problem that you're perpetuating, like giving that advice because it's like, please don't do that. It goes back to abusing the system

to get around the laws and squeeze your animals in a place that they don't belong. It's like, okay, that was probably the wrong thing to say. But as far as going back to your journey, just kind of like, obviously you guys saw all, or Brad and Rangers saw all 63. Haley, I know you kind of only saw about half, but what was your best experience, our favorite park, that on your journey? You're the second person that has asked me my favorite experience. 99.999% their first question is what's your favorite park? But I would actually say, and this will be shocking to most, was that Isle Royale was my favorite park and my favorite experience. And it was also a park We're Ranger and I almost died at.

Okay. You got to tell us. You got to tell us everything. We have to know. Oh, I felt the wind to go coming in. Oh, no. When do it go will get you up there. Beautiful, beautiful day in Copper Harbor.

It's nice and sign. It's supposed to be 60 degrees, you know, a little cloudy. And, you know, you get out on Lake Superior and it has a mind of its own. So we weren't fully prepared. So when we got there, clouds came in. The rain started pouring. It dropped down to 34 degrees, and then the wind chill coming off the lake was in the negatives at that point. And we weren't prepared, Ranger and I, and, you know, Isle Royale, there's, you know, one ferry that goes out and one ferry that goes back.

So when they drop you off, you know, you're there for, you know, a good four hours and you meet the Ranger at the dock and they're like, there's no facilities here. The boat's leaving. Don't pet the moose and don't die. And be back at the ferry on time. Otherwise, if you're getting left and you're on your own. free-for-all out there. A little intimidating, you know. So we got dropped off and I'm wearing jeans.

You know, I have layers on, but not enough. And Ranger has a service animal vest on and he's a little puffy jacket thing that I don't even know if those work. And we were out hiking for 20 minutes and just got soaked and it became a dangerous situation. And Ranger was looking hypothermic. I knew I was starting to get hypothermic and I didn't know what to do. By the some miracle, we walked by a backpacking shelter, basically. And, you know, it's a little three-sided shelter that screened in on one front.

And we went in there and it was dry. There was nothing in there, but it was dry and out of the wind. And I was just trying to keep Ranger warm. And I was trying to get them walking around. I was pacing back and forth. And I was just staring at the clock, just trying to keep, you know, my body heat up and and Rangers heat up. And, you know, it was miserable.

And I was scared. And when I say that I felt the wind to go coming in, it was an eerie feeling. It got to the point of, I'm going to die. We're not going to make it out of this. And this is it. And it was just this dark state of mind that I started to go into. And, you know, why am I here? I should never have started this project.

And now I put Ranger at risk. And, you know, I kind of paced around in that thing for a good two hours trying not to by. And during that time, you know, I started to actually have the chance to reflect on and think about, you know, what I had been doing the past, you know, six months and let it sink in. And it became an empowering thing at the end. And it was like, yeah, this is why I did it. And this is why I'm going to continue. And Ranger and I are getting out of here today. And we're going to keep moving. And that's why it's my favorite experience because it was the one time on this trip, really the biggest time on this trip where things got real.

And it was a turning point for me on this trip to really understand why I was doing it. And it with that fire back under me that I had on day one when we started this. So that's my favorite park. And that's my favorite experience. How far along on your journey through the national parks were you when this happened? Oh gosh. I think that it was off the top of my head, maybe Park 47. Okay. So nearing the end, but still a lot to go. Long way to go.

Yeah. That's quite the experience. That's for sure. How'd you end up getting out when you got to the ferry? Were you both free, like did the National Park Service have to give you blankets or did anyone intervene to help you guys at any point? Or did you just kind of? Blasted right onto the ferry. They had a hot coffee at the concession stand, like three cups of hot coffee, and Ranger and I went in the back and just curled up. Like, we're good. Don't worry about us. We'll be over here.

We're fine. We're in the ferry now. There's hot coffee. Ranger just curled up under the seat. Wow. And Haley, what about you? Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier today. And, you know, when we started this trip, it was kind of so sudden. We got stranded in Madrid, New Mexico for quite a while. And the first national park we made it to was Joshua Tree. And, you know, we didn't sleep in a tent. We just slept under the stars. And it was kind of like, whoa, like, here we go.

This is amazing. And I think that was, I was coming from a pretty bad situation. So that was just inspiring. You know, I was just like, this is amazing. Let's do this. You know, and that is just like kind of an emotional changer for me from where I was coming from. So that's, yeah, that was my start. Was it a moment where.

you were like, okay, I'm supposed to, this is where I'm supposed to be right now. Exactly. Just like laying under the stars and just being at our first national park. And at that point, Brad and I had decided to do it, but it was the first one. So it's like, let's go, you know. It's really amazing how transformative and healing nature is, whether it's trying to kill you or whether it's a serene night under the stars, like it can have these profound impacts on our lives.

And I mean, you're both of those experiences. are prime examples of that. Yeah, I think Haley and I both came out of this as changed people. I know for myself especially, I'm a different person after that than I was when I started. But that's what not just the national parks can do, but just spending time traveling, being on the road. It really opens your eyes and allows your brain to work differently. And it did heal me in a lot of ways that I needed healing.

As expensive as it was, it was still pricing. I like that. What is some advice that you would give to other people who are looking to do a journey like this and maybe they have an emotional support dog with them or even if it's on the other end of that they're just looking to do this journey. What would be your advice to those people? Sure. If you're just trying to do this journey, just step out the door. Just dive in and you're not going to do something like that unless you approach it that way. There's no amount of planning. And plans never work out.

So if you're going to do what we did, we did it in under 11 months. Then it's just roll the dice, take the risk, jump in head first. That's fast. Yeah. Less than a year for 63 parks. On the road 100% of the time. Wow. So yeah, plan.

Be prepared. Know that your plans aren't going to go as planned. There's other ways to do it as well. You know, a lot of people will, you know, spread all these national parks. out throughout their lives and maybe go to a couple different ones a year. So you don't have to go as fast as us, you can definitely go slow. But if you want to visit parks and you have your pet or your emotional support animal, there are a lot of parks that are welcoming to dogs and dog friendly that are a lot

that are just dog friendly in general. And, you know, if you get to that part where dogs aren't allowed, then, you know, find someone to watch your pet and go check that park out and bring your pet to the next one. For people with disabilities that have serviced animals, I just want them to know that it's okay to not let your disability define you and keep you walked into a place because that's what it did to me for a long time. And all you have to do is put your foot out at the door and take that first step and then the rest unfolds from there. I think that's amazing advice. Just get out and do it. Don't overthink it because if you think about it too hard, you're going to go back inside.

Absolutely. And before we let you go, I know you mentioned a little bit about things that you're working on. You mentioned a podcast and a book. Is that kind of what's next for you? Just things that you're working on in the background? Yeah, we're just going to see how it goes. You never know where it's going to end up. It's, you know, one of those things.

You just got to put your foot out the door. Take that first step and see what happens. It's the same mindset. So, yeah, just going day by day and taking risks and seeing what happens. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't, then we'll go back to the whiteboard and figure out what's next. There you go. And where can people follow along with you guys?

Do you have a page on socials that people can follow? Yes, we have a, our Facebook is Changing Roads. That's also going to be the title of our podcast. Our Changing Roads, Facebook is it's literally the entire National Park journey, basically, and, you know, the follow-up work we did with the National Park Service. Our podcast is going to be more about dissecting travel. and, you know, looking at it in deeper aspects in ways that you might not think of. And when is that going to start for your podcast?

I am aiming at a January first launch date. We'll see. Awesome. Okay. That's coming up quick. It's right around the corner. I'm doing my first interview on Thursday. Amazing. Exciting. That's the goal. I know we need a, we have an Instagram. It's called Ranger loves national parks. It's pretty backdated. So by the time this comes out, I'm going to go in now. and update it all the way. I know everyone here wants to see some pictures of Ranger,

so we'll make sure to upload some too. There are plenty. He's a very camera shy dog. That was the hardest part of having him on the road and trying to take pictures of him was he does not want to look in the camera. So every picture you see a Ranger, it took about 20 takes.

It's like this was a dedication to get this photo. Well, thank you both so much. Oh, no. We do this too much. Yeah. It's an absolute pleasure. We love National Park After Dark. And it's an absolute pleasure and honor to be on with you guys.

It's an honor. Thank you. Of course. It's been so much fun getting to know your story and everything you did. And I see Ranger in the background, I think, over there. Yeah. So I feel like we're meeting him too. Hi, hello.

Oh, my God. There he is. The man, the myth. He mentioned himself. Awesome. Well, thank you both so much. And I hope everyone is leaving this a little more inspired and ready to go tackle whatever it is on their list and has kind of just like the inspiration to do so.

So thank you for sharing your story with us and for sharing part of your journey. And we are definitely looking forward. We won't hold you to the January 1st, but we'll be looking out for your show. Yeah. And I guess to close this off, would you guys like to help us with our ending line? Absolutely. All right. So everyone, in the meantime, please enjoy the view.

But watch you're back. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at Stories at NPADpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast. Join our Outsiders-only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad-free, unlock

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