National Park After Dark - People of the Parks: Rhino Man ft. John Jurko II

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

In today's episode, we speak with John Jurko II, the lead producer of an upcoming documentary film, Rhino Man. We discuss the poaching crisis in places like Kruger National Park and the Rangers who risk their lives to protect the wildlife. We also take the time to honor the legacy of Anton Mzimba, a lead ranger and protagonist of the film, who recently had his life taken because of the work he did in wildlife conservation. For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Microdose: Get free shipping & 30% off your first order with code NPAD. Apostrophe: Get your first visit for only five dollars at our link and when you use code NPAD. Athletic Greens: Get a free 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase by using our link. Feals: Become a member and save 50% off your first order of Focus Melts, and get free shipping by using our link and code AFTERDARK. For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodesSources: rhinomanthemovie.org | Movie Website rhinomanthemovie.org/podcast/ | Podcast Website antonmzimba.com | Anton Mzimba Education Trust globalconservationcorps.org | Global Conservation Corps Website  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Limitless. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally. Breathe. Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.

That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Standing proudly at the north entrance of the world's first national park sits an arch.

Rising 50 feet high and constructed with hundreds of tons of stone, this structure can be spotted from miles away. It serves as a gateway to Yellowstone National Park, but its inscription holds true to all parks for the benefit enjoyment of the people. Hundreds of thousands of us pass under this arch and drive through the gates of national parks around the globe, eagerly anticipating the natural wonders that lie beyond them. However, not everyone who enters through the gates of national parks have pure intentions. Some drive through the gates under a false guise, or slip through the fences under the cover of darkness. Millions of people are drawn to the African continent and its many national parks for the chance to view and spend time amongst its iconic wildlife. Species that hold enormous values,

However, while they hold significant worth in regards to conservation and tourism, unfortunately many elicit and overwhelming desirability on the black market. Amongst the millions of people who enter national parks every year with the purest intentions lie people in waiting, ready for their chance to strike. Thankfully, there are hundreds of brave men and women who dedicate their lives to protecting these animals and the land they call home. So committed, they put their lives on the line each and every day, never knowing what dawn will bring. Welcome to People of the Parks. And other people of the Parks were back. It's been a little bit since we had one. I know. I almost said welcome

back to National Park After Dark, which it is the same, I guess one and the same, but special edition. It is a special edition. It's been a long time coming. And for those of you who are maybe new here, every once in a while, we decide to do a people of the parks where we will have conversations with different people involved in the national park realm. And today we have a very, very special episode, something that is pretty near and dear to Cassie and I's hearts. And we are talking to the co-producer of a very exciting film. As we know, No, Rangers around the globe risk their lives in the line of duty, but in places like Kruger National Park, Rangers face some of the deadliest obstacles in the world, from dangerous wildlife,

harsh working conditions, and above all, facing armed poachers. Since 2011, 565 African Rangers have died in the line of duty, and 52% of those deaths were ruled as homicides. These numbers are increasing. In the year 2021, 92 Rangers were killed, half of which were homicides. With this devastating crisis, it's more important than ever to bring attention to the war on wildlife and to the rangers who dedicate their lives fighting it. The film Rhinoman does just that and opens up the eyes of people around the world to the atrocities unfolding deep within nature preserves and national parks throughout Africa. Jean Jerko the second is a filmmaker, podcaster, and lover of books, nature, and adventure.

He spent two years living in L.A. working in the camera department on indie films. He solo cycled down the west coast from Vancouver to Ensenada. He produced and directed corporate videos for big brands in Atlanta, Georgia. And since 2018, he has been the lead producer and director of the film Rhinoman. a feature-length documentary that follows the intensive selection process of the South African field rangers who risk their lives to protect the rhinos from being poached to extinction. We are so excited to welcome John Jerko to the show. Yeah, I really appreciate it.

It's an honor to be on here. Super excited to talk to both you. And yeah, I love what you guys are doing as well. So this is really fun. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. And of course, we're here to talk about rhino. Man, the film that you produced and we were so moved by the film. And we are just so impressed

with your work and all of the effort that went into creating the film and the message, the people, the organizations involved in the film and the fight to protect rhinos and other at-risk wildlife in general was just so profoundly moving. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what inspired you to create this film to begin with? Yeah, absolutely. So it's kind of a long story. I'll try to condense it. But, you know, I was connected to Rhina Man after it had already begun.

My background is in filmmaking. I graduated from Bowling Green State University in Ohio in film. And then kind of a series of odd jobs, you know, freelance video production, went out to L.A. for a couple years doing camera work on a lot of feature films, indie films. and eventually found myself on the way to Atlanta, Georgia, where when I first, I was kind of like scoping it out, thinking about moving, and I remember there are these things called Creative Mornings.

I don't know if you two have ever been to one before, but it's like these chapters that are in a lot of cities throughout the country, and each month they have a theme, and there's a speaker that talks about that theme, so it could be nature or it could be something around creativity or entrepreneurship, something like that. And it's just a fun way. It's free.

You get to go out and meet. people hear someone talk about an interesting topic and for someone moving to a new city it was kind of a fun thing to do and at the end of it they listed all the sponsors on the slide and friendly human was this production company that was doing all their videos so it was like hmm I'm looking for a job check these guys out and this is I think probably the first couple of weeks I was there I looked them up and there was this trailer for this film rhino man on their website and you know it was about rhinos and Africa and these rangers and I all of this was very new to me. I mean, I love nature. I grew up kind of in rural Ohio in the middle of nowhere, but I didn't

really know a whole lot about Africa and the rhinos other than like, you know, what you kind of hear in passing or see at the zoo. But it looked like this amazing project and I was just like, man, it would be awesome to work with people doing this kind of stuff. You know, of course they were doing like corporate videos and things like that, but they had this passion for doing, giving back and doing these bigger stories. And it was basically like a year of stocking them. And I finally got a job there. I would just show up every event they had and, you know, send them a message. And they were kind enough to give me an interview at the beginning just to meet me. And then I just kept showing up to things for about a year. And finally one day, they were like, hey, why don't you stop by? I think we

might actually have some work for you. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. So got hired there, kind of got involved, and then that's when I realized like Rhino Man was still this thing in development.

And it was all these amazing vignettes of everything to do with Rangers, rhinos, the poaching crisis. But for me, as a filmmaker, I felt like it was kind of missing this overarching storyline and, like, the main characters that kind of went, you know, pulled the story through the whole film and had an emotional arc to it. And so I kind of started working with them. And it turns out Matt Lindberg, who is the founder of Global Conservation Corps and the kind of the genesis of Rhinoman and everything connected to it. was working there as well. He had just gotten his masters in conservation up in Michigan and was trying to find a way to keep the dream of getting this film completed and moving his nonprofit forward. And so we first met there and we're talking about like, hey, how can we finish this film? How can we make it better? And I just kind of got super involved and we started like brainstorming, pulled out note cards.

Like I got some note cards right here. I just started writing down. Like what are the scenes we have? What are the scenes we need and how can we, you know, who are the main characters and how can we tie this story together? And then we ended up raising money through his nonprofit to fly to South Africa for two more weeks. They had already been there, I think four times before that from 2015 on. Had you been before? No, I had never been to Africa at all anywhere in Africa. So this was, I mean, it was definitely exciting to me. And Matt is from South Africa originally. So, you know, he's very connected to the Southern African Wildlife College where he went to school for a time and helped train Rangers. And a lot of these people were his friends, mentors, people he respected.

So we went together and it was just this crazy two-week, like, non-stop action shoot that we were on. It was just me and him. So I had the camera and he was like holding the audio equipment and we were kind of directing it together and, you know, had a little bit of a plan, but we're just trying to figure it out. So it was kind of a wild experience and, you know, we covered a complete ranger selection process, which we can talk a little bit more about later on. That's in the film. And then we met Anton, or I met Anton for the first time and captured some amazing stuff with him. Nick Smith is the other cinematographer on the film and he's been very involved as well. He had met Anton two or three times before and shot some really, really great stuff that's still in the film, a few of the major

scenes with Anton. But yeah, I was, I think the biggest thing for me was just like, these people are amazing. Like, these people are dedicating themselves. They're super passionate. I instantly had respect for Ruben and Anton when I met them. And it felt like they instantly had respect for me, which is just like, I remember looking at these guys, I'm like, man, I mean, I have an amazing family. My dad's great. But I was like, these guys would be like amazing fathers, you know? It's like, you're such amazing humans. And yeah, so that's kind of where the journey started. And then it's been, I mean, that was 2018 and it's 2022 now.

And we're just finishing the film. So there's a lot to fill in in between. But I'll kind of let you guys steer me before I just keep going. No, of course. It's been a long project that you've been working on. And it sounds like you were inspired before you even got out to Africa to be a part of this. Yeah. What was it like seeing all the wild life for the first time?

From Ohio to South Africa. Right, yeah, quite a change. For sure, for sure. Yeah, I mean, in Ohio, we have white-tailed deer. It's rare to even see a bear. Lots of squirrels and some robins and cardinals. But, yeah, South Africa that first time. So Matt has some amazing friends at the Wildlife College,

and we stayed with a couple of them, Ashwell and Annale, two amazing human beings there. And they both work at the college and had access to the game viewing vehicles. So my first game drive was with. them and they're both hilarious people so you're just like always laughing when you're with them a and then b ashwell is just this amazing amazing birder but just knows so much about the wildlife and the floor and the fauna and everything there so we're cruising around matt's there too and he's also an expert and all this stuff so i'm just like getting this expert guided uh game drive throughout

part of crueler national park yeah yeah yeah exactly and i mean it's like everything from zebras, or if you're there long enough, you start calling them zebras. I feel weird saying zebra now. Zebras. Zebras. You got giraffes, lions, leopards, tons and tons of birds. I started getting into birding when I was there in 2020 on another trip. And of course, the rhinos.

And I still remember the first rhino I saw. We kind of came around this corner. And there's this big bull rhino. It was a white rhino standing on the road there. And the white rhinos are a little skittish. So usually if they see you coming, they're kind of like back up and they'll take off and get out of the way. And this guy was kind of like hiding around the corner and we were like sneaking up on them. And it was just this giant, massive creature.

And I just remember it's like so docile. I mean, it's just the, it's basically like a big cow with a unicorn horn. Right. They got two horns. But yeah, it was super amazing. Spent so much time out there driving around, seeing all this wildlife. And then because it was a shoot, we were just kind of go, go, go with the Rangers and the men on the selection that we were with. And, you know, it was kind of just like squeezing in when we can to see the wildlife.

But yeah, it's definitely a completely different experience from anything I had in the U.S. Absolutely. I imagine it's such a magical experience. And a part of, I think, why a lot of people are so drawn to South Africa and around different countries in Africa is because of all the wildlife. And in the film, there are some pretty staggering statistics that are talked about starting with rhinos and their population decline. Can you elaborate on just how significant the decline has been over the last couple of years

and decades and why it's so significant? Yeah, absolutely. And just to preface all of this, you know, I'm not a scientist. My background isn't in this stuff. So I've been learning as I've gone through all this and talked to, ton of people, but just to get a sense, you know, from what the statistics say, at the beginning of the, I believe it was the 20th century, end of the 19th, there were over 500,000 rhinos in the world, which is hard to believe now because there's less than 27,000. And it's been a series of

different kind of poaching incidences over time or crises and habitat loss. And it just kind of chipped away over the years. And what a lot of people don't know is actually in the 60s, we almost lost the rhinos in, I think in Africa, definitely in South Africa. And this gentleman Ian Player, who became a legend of conservation, was one of the first people to start a program, I think it was called Project Rhino. And their idea was to start helping move some of these rhinos around because they found this bigger population that they didn't realize existed. And KZN, which is a province in South Africa. And so they managed to bring those rhinos back from the brink then all the way up to where I believe the white rhinos are around. The white rhinos and the black rhinos, which are the

rhinos that are in South Africa, make up like 80% or more of the rhinos in the world. Wow. And so Kruger National Park, which is the biggest park in South Africa, I think one of the biggest national parks in the world. I can't remember the ranking. But it's about four million. acres. So it's bigger than some of the smaller countries in Europe. Very cool. It's hard to even imagine, you know, a landmass that huge, but that's amazing. It's insane. And when we get more into the Rangers and talk about how many Rangers are for that amount of land, it's kind of crazy. But it's, you know, one time Kruger had probably the highest density of rhinos maybe in the world in the last century. And starting in, I think around

2008 is when this recent poaching crisis really took off. And part of what sparked it was, you know, the economic growth in Asia, China, Southeast Asia, so people had more money. And, you know, it was traditionally used for its medicinal value and that kind of included things like, it was sort of like almost like aspirin. It had a mild fever reducing quality to it, which, you know, aspirin actually has much better. So there is like a little bit of truth to that. But pales in comparison but there's better options. Yeah, yeah.

And then, you know, there's over the years, things like it became a status symbol, so people had more money and were able to afford it. And supposedly there was a minister in Vietnam who claimed that it was either his mother or grandmother, her cancer was cured by rhino horn. So it kind of spiked this new surge. Yeah.

Yeah, so it spiked this new surge of demand for it. And from 2008 into about 2012 to 2015, the poachings just skyrocketed. So it was mostly funded by this demand in Asia. And because there's such a disparity in economic, you know, socioeconomic levels there, the poverty around Crew National Park in some of these areas is pretty high. Unemployment is, you know, above 30 percent. Post-COVID, it might be. close to 50%, which is kind of hard to imagine, and there's millions of people living there.

And so you have these people coming in offering, you know, maybe a year's wage, maybe more, which isn't a whole lot there in South Africa relative to what we would make. And basically say, hey, give us information. Where's a rhino? Here's a gun. Go poach this rhino for us. We'll give you this money. And so it just kind of exploded.

And it went from, you know, not very many poachings at all pre-2008 to, at the height, I think it was over 1,200 poach rhinos a year. Wow. So it was like more than three rhinos a day, which is kind of crazy to imagine. And so it just decimated the population in the last decade. Yeah. And you said, so in the film, the decline of the rhino is described as a systematic deletion, which is kind of what you're describing right now.

So, of course, with this shift in poaching, obviously now, it's starting to be referenced as more like organized crime. So can you kind of walk us through how that has shifted the role and responsibilities of the anti-poaching rangers in Kruger and the surrounding nature areas? Yeah, for sure. That's right. I mean, the Rangers, their job used to mainly be more about conservation and maintaining the grounds, you know, fixing fences, helping out with research, checking up on the wildlife, things of that nature. And because of this poaching epidemic in the last 10, 15 years, they've really become more of a paramilitary force, kind of out of necessity.

A lot of people have pushed back on that, but spending a lot of time there, you know, I think part of the thing is, you know, a lot of people see the paramilitarization of the Rangers and think, you know, that money could go somewhere else that could maybe stop. this crisis at the root. But it's kind of not an either or I just had a good conversation with Major General Joanne Eusta who ran Kruger National Park for I think five years, three of five years, and he was leading that Ranger Corps and he was part of the militarization of it. But what he was saying, it's not really this either or, you know, we need both. If we just abandon this effort within the parks, I mean, before you know what these rhinos are going to be

kind of decimated instantly. If there's no one there to stand the ground and, you know, fend them off, they're going to be gone before we have time to make that greater change on the outside. And so, you know, I think it's this combined effort of the Rangers in the parks having to stand up and put their lives on the line and we'll get into that more. Also working, you know, part of Global Conservation Corps, the nonprofit that owns Rhino Man and, you know, Matt, my buddy who started the organization, and their big mission is more about addressing that community conservation space relationship. And so bridging that gap between communities and conservation, youth education, you know, giving opportunities for people so they can make a living and understand more about what's going on

and have more connection to it because, you know, I feel like there's so much complexity and we can kind of dive into different areas. but, you know, South Africa was in apartheid for many years where blacks and whites were separated and, you know, most of the black population was pushed to these areas and split up from their families. And, you know, there's just so many negative things that happened. And even these conservation spaces, you know, once people lived on some of this land. So now there's this kind of tension between, you know, do we, should we reclaim this land? Is it our? You know, you guys are making money off of it.

So there needs to be some way that we can bring these two groups together. And, you know, because you can understand both sides. We don't want to lose all this wildlife in nature, but then also people are suffering. And there's, you know, there was, you know, oppression that put them in this space. So I feel like I've kind of gone all over the place here, but just trying to set up some of that. The problem is all over the place. And that's the reality of it. You know, it's not a cut and dry.

This is the problem. What is the answer? it's so much more complex than that. And I think that your answer illustrates that and really brings to light, you know, this is a really big and complicated issue. And it's not just a simple answer or fix because we would have done that already. You know, there's just there's a lot going on. And I, you know, we love that the film and you just brought to light, you know, the subject of the people surrounding the park. because yes, there is a focus on the rhino, and obviously that's what we're here to talk about,

but you can't talk about the rhino or any wildlife species that's under threat without talking about people. And, you know, I'm kind of going off script here too now. But it is something that's just, I mean, it's so important to talk about. Yeah. Well, it is because when you see that poaching, of course, is horrible. But when you see that it's happening because people are living, in such horrible situations, it makes you look at the whole situation differently. Because it's like, okay, people are poaching because of this, people are suffering. There's so much more to this than just protecting the wildlife. It's protecting people as well.

And you did mention while you're talking about how dangerous it is for Rangers out there. And the film definitely goes into that. It highlights a lot of the Rangers selection process. And it really dives into exactly what they're, job is day to day. Could you tell us some of the dangers that rangers are facing every day when they're working out in places like Kruger National Park? Yeah, for sure. And just to kind of preface this all too, you know, you two are kind of lucky you got to see the film in an early stage. I mean, it's basically complete this point, but it might still be a few months before we get it out to the world. So,

you know, everyone kind of hang in there while we get the film out there. But yeah, in terms of the the rangers and the dangers they face. I mean, even going back before this poaching crisis became a big issue, just being out in these spaces is dangerous. I mean, you've got the wildlife. I mean, you think of lions, but some of the most dangerous animals are hippos or buffalo or, you know, black rhinos. So there's the white rhino and the black rhino, and black rhinos actually like to charge. And you have to run up a tree because you don't really have any other option if they come after you. I actually had a couple experiences out there with the Rangers, and they're like, see over there,

there's a black rhino. We're going to go this way. Right. We're going to stay away from. Wide breath. Yeah, exactly. So you've got all the wildlife and the potential dangers there, but then you bring in this aspect of the poaching. And, you know, I guess the most obvious one is you have poachers out there that are trying to shoot these rhinos.

They have weapons. They're doing something that's kind of desperate. and putting their lives at risk. So if they encounter the Rangers, they're likely to shoot back as they're trying to escape. So the Rangers' lives are at risk in that way on the front lines. But then on top of that, and Rubin in the film goes into this a lot, and Anton, the other main character, the main ranger we follow, he kind of talks about some of the threats and things that he's faced.

But these crime syndicates, what they'll do is not only do they hire the poachers, but they'll try to influence the rangers. So it could be as simple as trying to get information from them to start, but then they'll find someone that, you know, maybe they're behind on some payments or something like that. And they're, you know, they'll kind of catch them in the bar and maybe they're talking about, you know, struggling or something to that effect. And then all of a sudden they kind of start working themselves in there and be like,

well, you know, if you tell me where this is, we can, we can slip you some money. It's not really a big deal. You're just, you know, you don't have to do anything. just look the other way. And, you know, there are Rangers that end up doing that. But then if they push back and they're good Rangers and they're honest and they don't want to fall into that trap, what then happens is they start threatening them. And it might be, you know, threats to their life directly, could be their family. Like, you know, you're going to be out there. A lot of these rangers spend close to a month at a time out on the reserves. And, you know, they'll send them a

message if they get a hold of their number or, you know, get a message to them and say, you know, you're out there on this reserve. Well, your family's not safe now unless you help us out. So they start putting pressure on them that way. So it's kind of this two-way thing. And they'll do this with poachers too, you know, if they get tangled up in them. Once you're kind of in, you can't get out because they'll be like, we'll pay you to give us this. But if you don't take the money and don't do it, then we're going to threaten your family. We're going to ruin your life and put you in, in harm's way. And it's not just threats. I mean, they follow through with them many times too. And there's a lot of Rangers that have had their lives taken, including my friend Anton in this film.

And we can talk more about that. But yeah, so it's extremely dangerous. And the men and women that do this job are some of the bravest, most courageous people I've ever met. And, you know, not only are they warriors in the field, but there also some of them just like most kind, loving, caring people you can imagine. I mean, these people, these rangers know so much about the environment, so much about the wildlife, they care. I mean, Anton in the film, he deeply cares about rhinos and the wildlife. I mean, he knew every bird call. He knows, like, knew every tree. He just knew so much. And, you know, for him, and he says it in the film, this is a calling from God for him. I mean, he really believed that. And it's not.

just, you know, some people say things like that, but he meant it. He was completely dedicated. So yeah, it's just, it's just a crazy situation with these amazing humans that are facing insane odds. Yeah, it's crazy to hear exactly what their job entails because a lot of times you think of a ranger and you think protecting wildlife, trail maintenance, you know, protecting visitors from wildlife, things like that. And then when you hear, in the background of the job that they're supposed to be doing that they're having threats to their family, they're facing gunfire. They're basically people are, it sounds like they're trying to corrupt them into working on

the poacher side. It's just, it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff that you don't necessarily realize when you hear Ranger. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, like you said, it's amazing how many jobs Rangers do. And this is just, you know, worldwide, have so much respect for them. because, you know, all the jobs on the reserve in terms of maintenance and taking care of the animals, like you said, protecting people from the animals.

But also, you know, there's some of the biggest advocates for wildlife for their reserves where they work. You know, they, there's some of the best connections to the communities around them as well in terms of advocating for this stuff. So it's just they do all that. And then on top of it, they have this crazy, you know, military police type job. that they have to enforce as well. So it's, it's, I don't know how they do, to be honest, but there's some really amazing dedicated people out there. Yeah, and you did, you began to bring up Anton,

and he is someone that we would love to speak to you more about because, number one, of course, like you said, he's the main character, main ranger in this film that Rhino Man follows throughout. And of course, we know that he was one of your dear friends. And, I mean, like you mentioned or started to touch upon the passion and just calling that he described he had for the African wildlife and his job and preserving and protecting rhinos and other species of wildlife for future generations.

He spoke a lot about his family and his children and wanting to preserve that for them. Tell us more about him and his story and anything you'd want to share about him because he truly was like just such an embodiment of love of rhinos and conservation and kind of combating this issue of wildlife trafficking and poaching. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Daniel. I mean, I think, you know, his his passion and influence is evident in how it affected you both. So it's, you know, I feel like, you know, as filmmakers, we did our job, but really it's Anton and his message and his personality that I think comes through and touches people. It's definitely why I wanted him to be like the main ranger in this film because after seeing

some of the footage we had and then actually meeting him, I mean, yeah, he's the real deal. I mean, Anton try to tell a little bit of his story the best I can remember it and know it. But I believe he was working at the Timavati Private Nature Reserve when he was 17. He got some work there. I'm trying to remember what they called it. But basically he was helping like fixed roads, more like maintenance, doing things around the reserve. He wasn't a ranger yet. And then the warden at the time, you know, kind of saw something in him and saw that this guy, you know, he had a passion and he was dedicated to his

work and always did a great job. And so they had a ranger selection and he offered, you know, hey, you should try out for this. And I know Anton, I probably have it in a podcast episode. I recorded with him somewhere, but he tells a story about the ranger selection. And I think there were maybe around 100 people that were in this selection. And to start, before you can even get into the selection, what they had to do was run. I can't remember how far it was. It was either five or 10 K's kilometers. And it was like a hot day, he said, he was like, I don't even know if I can run.

I don't know how good I'm going to be at this. Like, what am I doing? No one's really prepared. Everyone's just kind of in their normal shoes and clothes and stuff. And so all of a sudden, you know, they're off. They're all running. And he's, you know, given it his best. and he like slowly realizes he's like passing one person passing another person and all the way to

the end I think he ended up coming in it's either second or fifth out of all those people and he realized he's like wow I must be in really good shape or really want this thing and so he went through that whole selection process and back then he likes to tell the story too that you know was way harder when he did it which was probably true I mean they just like really put them through some crazy physical stuff and a lot of people push back on that and and I can I can see if you're like sitting at home and you're watching these guys going through this like torturous physical rigorous, you know, exercises and sleep deprivation, all this stuff, you'd be like, man, they're really kind of beating these guys up. But when you realize what they have to face in the

field and what you need to be ready for, it's like you can't be too easy on the people that are going through this because they're going to have to face real life or death situations and they have to be able to react. They need to be physically fit. So you kind of start to understand it. And when you see people go through selection and we can go way into that part of it later, you really get to see the transformation of a lot of these young men and women who are like, I don't know if I could do this to all of a sudden like having this new empowerment and be like, wow, I never expected this could come out of me. I didn't realize I could do this. And like the discipline actually empowers them and makes them more proud of being a ranger and doing their job.

So it's an interesting transformation. But yeah, so Anton went on from there. He became a ranger. He was trained at the Southern African Wildlife College, which Rubin is the other main character we follow, and he was teaching there at the time. He basically started the ranger training program there. He had his own company, and then they kind of were absorbed into the Wildlife College. But he trained Anton. Anton was this great ranger. You know, the warden kept kind of seeing good things in him, saw he had leadership skills. So he just kind of kept advancing him.

And Anton worked his way up from just being some guy digging holes and fixing roads. to a ranger to, you know, kind of like mid-level rangers to running the entire ranger force, basically in the last several years. So just a dedicated guy, super smart. He didn't even know English when he started, which is another impressive thing. Wow. He barely could speak a word of English when he was being trained to be a ranger. And he said, Rubin taught him a lot.

And then what really got him through was, I think there was someone that was visiting Timavadi. They had a bird book, Sassel, is kind of like. the famous bird book down there, South African, something, something. I should know that. Someone had that book and he was, he was like sleeping. I think he said he was like napping in his room and this bird was just driving him crazy. He's like, I don't know what this bird is, but I can't sleep because it's driving me nuts. And so he goes out and he sees this bird and it's this beautiful looking bird, but he has no idea what it is. And that's when he goes up and finds this person is like, hey, you have one of these books, don't you? And so he gets the book and he starts learning the birds and

the bird calls, and that's how he learned English. He was like reading, he would have to read it, and he wanted to know about the birds. So he'd force himself to figure out the words were so he can learn all of the birds and the bird calls, which just kind of blew my mind when he told me that story. It's so impressive. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. And I mean, his English was really good. I mean, I never had a problem understanding him. Yeah, we heard him in the film and on your podcast, and I didn't have an issue ever not understanding him. I never would have known that he ever. struggled with English. Yeah, exactly. And I think he knew at least a couple other languages. So, yeah, way above and beyond my level of language skills. But yeah, so, I mean, he was just,

he was just amazing in so many ways. And I got to spend so many hours in 2020. We could tell that story, but I was there for nine months. And I kind of, we shot a whole other film about Rangers. And Anton, he's not featured in as much, it's more his team. He was kind of pushing his team to be featured, but I still got to spend a lot of hours driving around the reserve with him. He was like helping me out. You know, we, we helped that whole team out during COVID, you know, do some Ranger relief and get them some food because all those reserves got shut down. So just really got to know him.

And the last couple years, like every other week, we would check in with each other. And he was great support for me too because, I mean, this film project has been kind of crazy. I've put a ton of my life kind of on the line and on the hold to get this thing across the line. and he was always there to support. He wanted to tell this story and thought it was super important and saw the value in getting it out there to a bigger audience. So, yeah, I'm kind of forever grateful for that support. And so he became very close.

And, yeah, just to kind of fill everyone in that doesn't know already, in the last few weeks, you know, the film was basically completed. We were just starting to reach out to potential celebrities to bring on as like an executive producer. and Matt actually just had who's so Matt is the founder of the nonprofit GCC and he's also the one that kind of started the film and as a co-director he knows Anton very well as well he had dinner with him several weeks ago and Anton you know he was kind of talking about how he had a lot of pressure at the beginning of this year from from poaching syndicates that were trying to threaten his life and they managed to kind of shake them and they thought they got rid of these

guys but it turns out you know they came back uh it was july 26 they showed up at his house pretended like their car was broken down uh they asked for water i think his wife and one of his sons was helping get water and then they came around the side of the house and saw he was working on his truck and pulled out guns and just shot and killed him right there so it was pretty traumatic to find that out you know i found out the next morning matt called me and And I was just kind of, I mean, I was heartbroken and also just like dumb struck. Like I just, I couldn't believe it happened because this is something he always talked about as a possibility. You know, these threats and we kind of knew was there.

And even with the film, we questioned and always asked him, you know, like putting this in the world, is it going to put you under more threat because more people are going to know about you and this cause? And, you know, he's like, they already know who I am. I want to get this story out into the world. but when that happened, it's just it's hard. You kind of start questioning everything. I mean, like this guy as a friend became close to him. He's one of the most passionate and kind and loving people I ever met.

You know, for someone to kill him because of his compassion and passion for wildlife and for people is kind of heartbreaking and it's just dark. And yeah, I mean, it's it was it was a tough couple of weeks there. I mean, this was just three weeks ago. and it's still tough when I start talking about it. I don't think I've had a ton of time to process at all. You know, the whole team has come together and we put together this trust for his family to take care of the kids and get them through higher education and hopefully become, you know, a trust that can support future generations

in conservation education. So it's just been kind of this wild ride of trying to mourn him and then also honor his legacy through raising funds and also, you know, getting word out about this film. So, yeah, it's been kind of crazy. Yeah, it's a lot. And we're so sorry when you messaged us and told us that we were heartbroken for you. Watching the film, we were so moved by Anton as well.

And we didn't even know him. So hearing your story and your side and hearing what a great loss it is, we're so sorry. and we are so excited to be able to continue talking about his legacy with you here. And you talked about the fun that you're doing is that the GoFundMe that you had. So we did share that on our socials and we'll share it into the show notes here so people can get straight to that as well. Yeah. Yeah, thank you, Cassie. And yeah, just to give a little more context.

So it was four partners that came together to start the trust. It's called the Anton Zimbabwe Education Trust, and that was Global Conservation Corps, Timbavati Private Nature Reserve, where he worked, Southern African Wildlife College, which has always been a great partner, and that's where he trained. And I think he did some contract work there for Rubin at one time. And then Elephants Alive, which is another big organization that works in the area and knew of Anton and worked with him. So they all came together to create this trust and raise these funds for his kids.

And just like as a side note, too, in terms of immediate, help Timavati did a great job bringing people together and raising funds to cover medical bills, trauma support, all the things that his family is going to need in the short term here. Of course. It's just, yeah, and it's it is such a loss. Obviously, that's a parent. But I, we got to applaud you for continuing on. I mean, it was so recently, but just putting, you know, the wanting to continue his leg,

on and speaking about not only him, but what he was so passionate about and, you know, discussing with us and whoever else is going to be listening to this. It's just really a testament to your dedication, too, to continuing his legacy. And in the film, I mean, there are so many people that come forward with statements kind of speaking to their why. Like, why do they feel this calling? Why do they feel that this work is important? and like everyone from Rangers to volunteers to different veterinarians and all of that.

And Anton kind of finishes up the film with a big statement of his own about, you know, why he feels this calling and why it's so important. And, you know, I think I speak for all of us as a collective, you know, Cassie, myself, the audience, you know, you, you know, we don't want to stand idly by while this war is, waging against, you know, wildlife and, you know, we're all sitting here in the United States and having this knowledge that this is all going on right now. And I think it can kind of feel sometimes like you're helpless a little bit being so far removed. But it's difficult when you feel such passion for wanting to contribute and wanting to make a difference. So do you have any

words of guidance or advice on how, you know, aside from shipping up and getting into enrolling into Rangers School, what we can do at an individual level to help lend ourselves to this greater issue. Yeah. For me, it's always been about the people. You know, the wildlife is amazing, but like you said, it's the people. The people are the solution. The people are, what, the problem is, and they're the ones that need, you know, the support to solve this. And yeah, I think I think the biggest way to help is just to become an advocate for Rangers, you know, learn more about their stories, whether that's through this film, Rhino Man or the podcast. There's so many amazing organizations out there doing things for Rangers. And I think a big part

of it is just bringing that awareness and growing that so that people know this issue is a big issue and that we can eventually, you know, I think a big part of what we want to do with the film, you know, on top of actually getting the film out there and this awareness is a social impact campaign that we've been slowly building in the background with these partner organizations. And we want it so when people see the film and get this emotional hit, that then they have somewhere to go to actually take action and do something. So a part of that will likely be raising funds to train Rangers because that's one of the biggest ways to have long term impact is to train more rangers or upscale, upscale rangers, you know, global conservation

corps, future Rangers program, which is the youth program where it's, you know, educating kids on conservation, taking them out for game drives, because that's the other big thing that I learned when I was there, especially the first time, is that, you know, most of these kids that live maybe less than a mile from Kruger National Park have never seen wildlife in person because they're just so separated. it can be expensive to go to some of these reserves and they just culturally might not have the idea like, hey, let's all get in a car and go drive around Kruger and see wildlife. So, you know, a big part of it is getting kids out there and exposing them to wildlife because

I feel like you can't love or care about something until you've seen it and experienced it. Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven. People always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just four dollars. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy and four dollars? Very. Only at 711. Valley 36 2326 participating stores only while supplies last the the app for full terms. So that's a big part of it. And then creating scholarships for kids to go to higher education and job opportunities. Because if you don't have work, it's going to be hard to

to care about anything if you can't take care of yourself and your family. So, you know, kind of connecting with some of those organizations, be really helpful just sharing, you know, this podcast episode or sharing things about the film, you know, follow us on, you know, Rhino Man the movie online, a bunch of different places. And we, you know, try to just like collect the best from all the organizations that are doing work in a space and showcase their stuff on top of what we're doing. So I feel like there's a ton of ways to get involved.

even just traveling to South Africa and experiencing it and, you know, doing your research and trying to find the lodges and reserves that are taking care of their people, I think is important. And just going there and spending money because that money goes towards paying people, you know, their wage, whether that's Rangers or other employees of these parks. So there's a ton of different ways you can get involved. But I think just start out by being interested and spreading the awareness and sharing that passion for Rangers. Absolutely. Something that's easy for everyone to do from home.

And we did recently touch on, we did an episode on ecotourism and how to spend money back into the countries that you're visiting. So I love that you just mentioned that for in South Africa and in Kruger National Park. And I kind of wanted to circle back to one thing that you mentioned about rangers and having more rangers. And you mentioned a little while ago in this episode that there's not that many rangers for how big. this park is. Can you tell us how many rangers are employed? So well, Timavadi, I think, you know, it varies a little bit depending. COVID kind of wrecked a lot of these places too, so they had to cut people at different times. But I know Timavati, Private Nature Reserve had or has right around 40 rangers. And there are 55,000 hectares, which I think that comes out to about 100,000, 110,000

acres, which is a lot of land for, and not all those rangers are out there at the same. time, you know, they have to rotate too. So it's, you know, maybe 20 to 30 rangers. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Go home. They can't be out there 24-7. Yeah. Yeah. 40 people. So it's not that many people for a ton of space. Kruger National Park, like I said, is four million acres. And I can't, I'm not sure the numbers there, but I think it's, you know, somewhere between 300 and 600 Rangers for that whole park. So, you know, if you do the math, four million and less than a thousand Rangers, that's a, That's a lot of space for one person to cover.

It's a lot of space and it's also like I feel like I'm a little all over the place now. But in the film, there you guys are talking about how I forget who mentions it in particular, but they said that, you know, this is no longer poachers cutting a hole in the fence under the cover of darkness and sneaking in. It's not like, okay, we can patrol the fence line. We have however many people to do patrols and we got it covered. Like poachers are changing their tactics and they're becoming more and more difficult to not only track or spot or apprehend. It's just it is a organized crime and it's a war and it's evolving just as different types of war does. And so with that in mind, that amount of rangers compared to not only the size of where you need to patrol, but the different evolving tactics that pull.

coaches are taking on is just it's a lot to think about and it's overwhelming you know and it also just adds an extra layer of real just admiration for the people who are doing this because it's just a huge undertaking yeah yeah I mean it can become daunting and I think a lot of people that are in the space become cynical at a certain time a certain point in time just dealing with this but you There's a lot of great work being done. And to speak to the poachers and their tactics changing, I mean, it is kind of this constant arms race. You know, I think that part of the movie, Rubin was kind of referencing how a lot of this poaching was more subsistence poaching at one time where maybe they were going in just to, you know, kill some wildlife for food or, you know, it was more for sustainability, you know, sustaining their families or communities or, you know, just paying the bills with whether that's rhino meat. or giraffe meat or, you know, could it be anything.

But over time, because of what we talked about earlier, the demand, you know, these criminal groups have become more and more sophisticated and kind of during the height, I don't know how much it is now, but I know during the height of the poaching crisis around 2012 to 2015, you know, some of these were ex-military coming in from Mozambique, which is borders Kruger National Park. And Mozambique has gone through a lot of tough times in the last. last 50 to 100 years with revolutionary wars and civil wars and things like that. So there's a, there's a lot of poverty and war-torn areas there. And, you know, these ex-military people come in.

They have training. They're coming in with high power weapons. And, you know, they know how to anti-track and cover up their tracks. They know how to change their tactics. And then on top of that, between, with the corruption, you know, sometimes they're just brought in someone that works at the park, sneak some people in, and then they're just dropped off somewhere or picked up in the park and driven out, and it's so hard to know where they're coming from. But, you know, talking to General Eusta, he just, he gave a great overlay of his strategy and the use of, you know, technologies become a big thing. There's, there's radar systems, there's sensors under the ground, you know, the helicopters and the dogs, the canine units have been like super impactful. It's, it's

amazing to see those dogs working and the rangers working. working with them, everything from, you know, one ranger and a dog kind of tracking that way all the way up to, you know, they brought in hounds from Texas actually at one time. And the hounds have become this great resource where they'll fly in and drop a ranger off. They let go four, five, six hounds. And these hounds can find the tracks and they'll just chase these people down. And then they get up in the helicopter and they follow the dogs and kind of guide them a little bit. And then the dogs basically trap the poachers and they can come down

arrest them. So people are constantly figuring out ways to one-up the poachers. You know, it's a back and forth. But then on the outside, I mean, there's so many things happening outside of the parks that are making a difference. You know, Peter Knights with Wild Aid, they're doing some really amazing work where they go into places like China and Vietnam for rhinos specifically. And they've worked with the government to get airtime so they can create these public service announcements and partner with celebrities like Jackie Chan, I think, was their first one. And they did this amazing piece on rhinos. And it's just kind of showing people that, hey, like, this is what's happening when you're using this horn, A, which a lot of people don't even realize. I mean, the poaching or

the crime syndicates don't want to show the bloody reality of it. They want to just be like, hey, here's this product that you can use that does what you want. So it's kind of bringing that to the forefront and slowly changing the culture. And it hasn't had an impact. You know, he was talking about how at one time people were quoting that, you know, rhino horn was worth up to $500,000 for a horn, which it seems like it's come down a fair amount to where it's still a lot. It's like probably in the $150,000 to $250,000 range. But they are having an impact.

Yeah. There's a lot of money, especially for people where, you know, $10,000 could be a year's wage. Absolutely. Well, I think that would that and something that you, mentioned earlier on in our conversation about this is like a multifaceted thing. You know, there's obviously the boots on the ground getting in and actually stopping poaching as it's happening, but also the educational layer for the upcoming generation number one, but number two, obviously with the general public that has this huge disconnect of where these products are

coming from and the reality of it. So it's all this educational, you know, realm and also combating the issue at hand as it's happening. And there's just, as far as the younger generation goes, I think there's just a beautiful kind of visual at the end when Anton is speaking. And there's footage of him and his son. And you are saying that there are children a mile outside of Kruger that have never seen wildlife, you know, in person. And there's this visual of Anton's son and he's just like holding a fence. you know, just this separation of, you know, that generation and being immersed in nature just on the other side of this fence. And then right after that, Anton and his son are walking together.

And Anton's, you know, pointing out different wildlife species. And it's just this transformative shift of what can happen when we immerse and educate the next generation and kind of ends the film with a lot of hope. And I think that's what we loved so much about it is here are some harsh realities, but here is what we can do and what we hope to do with this film. So with that being said, you know, we just want to thank you so much for co-creating this film, putting so much into it. Like, you know, your whole life, you know, for the last however many years has just all been about rhino man and the people and the animals and you know it's just it's so important and

you touched us for sure and we really hope that everyone is just as excited as we are yeah which also brings us to the question of when will rhino man be available to watch and do you know where it will be streamed when it is available yeah i'll answer that question but first i kind of want to go back to what you were saying, Danielle, because that ending, it's probably my favorite part of the film, and it does have this hopeful moment. And, you know, we've shared it with people that we're trying to become partners with and for feedback and stuff. And that's always one of the scenes that touches people the most. And really, I mean, that, that scene kind of embodies the dream that Anton had for the future, and that was the inspiration that inspired Matt to take Global Conservation

Corps from focusing more on Rangers and supporting them, which we still do, and this film is evidence of that, but shifting to the youth and the children and focusing on bringing communities and conservation spaces together and the power that working with people can have outside of these parks. So really it's kind of thanks to Anton that that shift happened and that we're moving in this direction. So I just wanted to throw that in there. But yeah, in terms of when the film will be out, you know, that's always the question. I feel like two or three years ago, I was like, yeah, we're probably going to be done in a month. Right. Right. But like I said, the film is done right now. I think we need to update some credits or something, but that's pretty minor. But what we're doing is,

we're looking at film festivals right now, and we're looking at attaching a bigger name to the project to really bring that awareness and get us out there in front of a bigger audience. And kind of happening with that whole process is seeking distribution, which is a whole kind of world to its own that I've been learning a lot about over the last few years. And so through that process,

ideally we'll start showing it probably more at festivals, maybe some educational type experiences, maybe partnering with some zoos and things like that. Early next year is when, you know, that's what I'm giving it. So like spring at the absolute latest, you know, we have some good partners here in Atlanta that want to show it. So the absolute latest will be showing it in the spring. But hopefully earlier, hopefully the beginning of 2023.

And then from there, it's, you know, making that distribution deal and hopefully getting it on one of the big streaming platforms soon. So I wish I could say it's out tomorrow. Right. Yeah. If you message me and beg me long enough, maybe. you know like we'll show to but but yeah that's that's where we're at and it's just you know also building this social impact campaign and really bringing all these partners together it's it's really starting

to form now so we want to be ready so that when this film gets out there people are inspired to go take action and and really make a difference for rangers which ultimately makes a difference for the wildlife and these natural spaces very exciting and in the meantime I guess while we're waiting for rhino man to come out and everyone to watch it you do have a podcast called the Rhino Man podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do on there and who you talk to? Because it's very interesting

and you have a lot of good information on there. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for bringing that up because I always forget to plug what we're doing at the moment. So yeah, I mean, the easiest way to follow us is maybe go on, you know, you can go to rhino manthemovie.org or we're on Instagram, all the social medias. Most of them is Rhino Man the movie or Rhino Man movie.

And I'll be posting the podcast on there, which kind of started as a way to reach out to a lot of these organizations I wanted to partner with on the social impact side. But it's been a great way to bring more awareness not only to the project, Rhino Man and the story, you know, Anton's story and Ruben story, but to just bring more awareness to Rangers, this rhino poaching crisis, and all these amazing people that are doing work because, you know, it's not just the Rangers. it takes a village or a city or a country or world to make this happen. And everyone from wildlife vets to rangers to people running some of these big organizations that are supporting rangers or rhino conservation in that space.

So I try to balance it out. If one's more about rangers than the next one I hope is more about rhinos and specifics about that. And we even talk about, you know, with Barney Long from Rewild, we go into the Javan and Samatra and rhinos, which there's less than a hundred. hundred of each of those, which is a whole other story. But yeah, it's been a great way to meet amazing people for me and connect with them and just tell and highlight their stories. Awesome. Well, we hope that everyone is just as eager to go listen as we are because, you know, we've listened to a few and just,

I mean, every guest is just, every conversation is just so eye-opening. And, you know, when you hear statistics like that, you know, less than 100 of, yeah, it's just like you can't even, it feels like it's a world away, but at the same time, it feels really part, you feel personally impacted. I've never seen a job in Rhino, but knowing that there's less than a hundred of them, it's like it pulls at you, you know, and I know that a lot of people feel the same. Yeah, absolutely. And just to highlight a couple people really quickly, of course, if you want to know more about our project. I interview Matt on there, so you can kind of get more of a sense of that. But one of my favorite humans in the ranger space is Sean Wilmore. He's from Australia.

We had a really great chat. He kind of did something similar when he was, you know, maybe like 10 years ago, a little younger. But he basically mortgaged the house and sold all of his stuff. And he went on a 14-month journey around the world interviewing Rangers. And that eventually turned into creating the Thin Green Line Foundation, which is this amazing organization he runs that supports Rangers around the world. And he's just, when it comes to Rangers, he's the man. And he just, he has so much passion for them. And he's a Ranger himself, actually, in Australia. That's how he got into all this. But I would definitely recommend checking that episode out. So, but just so many great people. It's the, for me, it's the fun of this. And, you know, what draws me to it are all these stories

and all these amazing people doing this work. Well, Dron, I can't even, we can't thank you enough. for coming on and speaking with us and sharing Anton's story and the progression of Rhino Man and the wild ride it's taken you on. I know it's been years in the making and we have to wait just a little longer to see it out on the screens, but everyone knows where to follow the progression of, you know, when they can see it. And of course, we'll link all that stuff in our show description and how to follow you. And we just wish you the best of luck. And we hope we hope we we stay in touch. Yeah.

Yeah, thank you, Danielle and Cassie. This has been really great. It's been awesome to talk with you and get to learn more about your project as well. And I've been listening to a lot of episodes. It's been really fun. Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, thank you so, so much for joining us. This has been an awesome conversation.

It's very informative. We're very excited for everyone to listen. So thank you for coming on. Thanks. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale you'd like to share, send us an email at any NPAD Stories at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast.

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